June 9, 2024 • 15 mins
In this introductory episode, hosts Heather and Chelsea introduce themselves and explain the concept and purpose of their podcast. They discuss what shipping is and the difference between canon and crackships. Chelsea and Heather also share some of their favorite ships currently and from their history of fandom involvement. They preview that their first season's focus will be on analyzing the relationship between the Ghoul and Lucy from the Fallout series.
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Episode Transcript
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Heather Cardona (00:03):
Hi guys, welcome to our new podcast. We,
or I will go down with thisship. I am Heather and Chelsea.
All right, Chelsea, why don't wetalk about what this podcast is
even about
Chelsea Moye (00:22):
All right. So for those of you who aren't aware,
shipping is the act of creatinga romantic pairing between two
people or characters who are notnecessarily otherwise
romantically linked. That'scalled crack shipping, but we'll
get to that later. And shippersare people who ship these
characters, and the pairingitself is called a ship.
Heather Cardona (00:40):
And what is the difference between canon
shipping and what me and youbasically are, which are crack
shippers? Okay? So
Chelsea Moye (00:50):
a cannon ship is a ship that happens in the actual
piece of pop culture or media,like in Harry Potter. Harry and
Jenny are cannon, and Ron andHermione are canon. And then you
have crack ships like for me, Ialways ship Draco and Hermione.
(01:11):
I will ship it forever, untilthe day I die. I don't care.
That's my crackship.
Heather Cardona (01:14):
And I ship Snape in Hermione, and I will
die on that hill too. And crackshipping is just the most fun,
just because the community,because we're all we're all
together, just crack shippingAnyway, great and so, but we're
not just here to talk aboutships. We are here to talk about
(01:39):
how we can apply this popculture to writing, because we
are both authors. So Chelsea,why don't you talk about your
background as an author,
Chelsea Moye (01:56):
Regency romances as Olivia Marwood. I also write
steamy cowboy romances as LaurenWheeler, I have a lot of pen
names. I'm very ADHD, and I liketo write in all directions at
once. And I'm also adevelopmental editor, and I see
this happen all day, every day.Romance is my preferred genre,
and I really like love seeinghow couples come together in
(02:21):
stories. Yep,
Heather Cardona (02:22):
and I'm Heather, obviously I have
multiple pen names for the samereason that you do. I love I
love romance as my main genre,and I love all the sub genres
within it, whether it's urbanfantasy, fantasy, even cozy
mystery, um, dark hockeyromance, hockey romance,
historical romance, just all thethings. I love it. And like you
(02:46):
said, I love watching thecharacters come together. And I
also do plotting, and so I focuson outlining and hitting those
story beats as well as characterarc and development. And I feel
like you and I have a verystrong sense of structure, not
only with plot, with thatexternal plot, but with
(03:08):
character motivation, with thatromance, and how we can make it
make sense, whether it's darkromance, whether it's something
as Insta love, just anything IFeel me and you have a good
grasp of, okay, how does thisfit into the story world, or why
do we ship certain things thataren't canonical? And I think
(03:31):
that breaking that down also isgoing to help us as writers, or
anyone who's listening, becauseof how writers have set certain
things up or developed certaincharacters. So since we're
talking about ships, Chelsea,what was your first ship ever
that you can remember?
Chelsea Moye (03:50):
Oh, gosh, like so I have been a hardcore Indiana
Jones girlie for my whole life.And you know, Indy has a
different girl in almost everyfilm, except for the most recent
ones. And and I was always ahardcore indie Marion shipper,
like she was the only one whocould go toe to toe with him.
She was the only one who matchedhim on every level. She was the
(04:11):
only one who was perfect forhim. So like my first hardcore
ship ever since I was ittybitty, has always been indie and
Marion Ravenwood,
Heather Cardona (04:19):
that is adorable, and I feel like that's
so sophisticated. And I'm overhere like, I think Daphne and
Shaggy should have beentogether. That was my ship. So
anytime I saw the 13 ghosts ofScooby, doo I was, I was on it.
I know everyone hated that onebecause of scrappy, but gosh, I
loved it because it was onlyDaphne and it was only Shaggy,
(04:42):
and that's all I care about,yep, and so, okay, so if you had
a OTP, is one true pairing, andI know it's so hard because we
are, both of us are part of somany different fandoms, but if
you could pick. One ship rightnow, or even, let's not even do
(05:03):
one, let's say top, top fiveships, or any ships that come to
your mind, just so we can givepeople who are listening or
watching us a sense of who weare and what kind of dynamics
we're into. So what are yourships that you're kind of
following right now?
Chelsea Moye (05:21):
Okay, um, my, I'll give you a top three. Okay,
right? Um, definitely vaultghoul or Ghoulcy. I've heard it
both ways. Um, the ghoul andLucy from Fallout. I'm hardcore.
There for that enemies to loversvibe. I am so into it. Um,
Polin. I love Penelope and Colinso much. I've read Julia Quinn's
(05:44):
books. I loved the book, and Ilove the first part of season
three. I'm ready for the secondpart of
Heather Cardona (05:51):
bridgerton. Bridgerton, right? Okay,
Chelsea Moye (05:54):
and let's see who's my third like, currently,
because we have, we have a lotgoing on in this house, but, um,
like, Rip, Rip and Beth. Like,oh, yeah, that's
Heather Cardona (06:05):
an obvious one. Hardcore.
Chelsea Moye (06:08):
OTP, I love them so much. They inspired
characters in the book I'mcurrently writing. Like, I adore
Rip and Beth. So yeah, that's mytop three.
Heather Cardona (06:19):
And I think it's really interesting, because
rip and Beth is canon on a call,and usually you and I don't go
for the canon, but that pairingis just so perfect, like the
writing for both of them worksso well. The characters have
that chemistry. I believeeverything I want them to be
together, because usually I'mnot that way at all. And
(06:43):
obviously ghoul, see, we don'tknow yet as of right now. I
mean, I guess technically,canonically, she and Max are
together, but, I mean, sheditched his to go with the
ghoul. So
Chelsea Moye (06:56):
yeah, like, I really have high hopes that they
might do us some fan service andgo with the chemistry, but I
don't know that they will. But Ihave high hopes, like, and I'm
spoiled having read so much inthe indie space, like, where we
get served exactly we want tosee. And I'm just like, on
(07:17):
mainstream media, can you pleaseget on this bandwagon and do
some fan service.
Heather Cardona (07:21):
Yeah, and I think that that's something that
we definitely will go into.Because, of course, we're going
to have our Fallout episodes,whether we rehash the series or
we just talk about the ship ingeneral, and we might do all of
it just because I think thatobviously that's what's going
like. It's recent, and we canpoint to it, but just the
writing is so strong. And likeyou said, the chemistry between
(07:44):
the actors are just it's onpoint, and I think especially
because the type of media thatwe are going to dissect for the
most part is visual. And sotalking about chemistry between
the actors, if you're a writer,how can we translate that
chemistry on a page where we'renot necessarily watching it? I
(08:05):
think that that's also a reallygood topic for you, and I to
kind of break down too, becauseit definitely is possible for
me, my ships. I mean, I'm allover the place. I love, like
fandoms and everything, but likeyou, I'm very much ghoul and
Lucy. Like, I thirst for that. Ilove it's almost grumpy
(08:26):
sunshine, if you will. Like, Ilove that. I'm just, I'm just
gonna like word vomit. I loveDamon and Rhaenyra from House of
Dragon. I already touched on,you know, Snape and Hermione,
Daryl and Beth from The WalkingDead. If we're talking about,
oh, one of the it's it was goingto be canonical, but we just
(08:49):
didn't get another. Season wasFrank Castle and Karen Page from
the Punisher, and then from theanime sphere. I love Kakashi and
Sakura, which it's a very like,it's kind of a professor
student, which clearly is kindof my jam. I also, and I like
(09:12):
Levi and Historia from Attack onTitan. Gosh, I'm like, looking
at my funkos to see who else.Oh, Beetlejuice and Lydia. I'm
like, all about that. I'm justlike, looking for inspiration.
Oh Wolverine and Rogue. I love Ilove them. And again, these are
(09:33):
all basically, like, crackships. But yeah, that's
basically like, that's, that'swhere my head is right now. And
so I think that, yeah,
Chelsea Moye (09:43):
was Wolverine and Mystique, wow,
Heather Cardona (09:46):
oh. I mean no judgment. I totally, I can
understand that. But yeah, so Idon't know. I just love, I think
the chemistry between HughJackman and Anna Paquin. I. Oh,
so good, so good, and it'll beinteresting, yeah. But anyway,
okay, so that's basically whereour heads are, and our job, our
(10:10):
goal, is to take take this mediaand how we can apply it to our
own writing. Because, likeChelsea said in the indie
sphere, we can write these shipsthat in mainstream are crack
ships, and we can dissect, howcan we do this in a way where we
can become sympathetic with acharacter who, potentially, like
(10:33):
Damon Targaryen, is just, youknow, sordid, debased, like all
of these wretched things, but hehas that one good thing that all
of people love to read about,and how can we apply that to our
own writing and just kind of gofrom there? And also we aren't
going to be afraid to talk aboutwhat's going wrong in mainstream
(10:58):
and why certain canonical shipsjust did not work for us,
whether people agree with it ornot, but we can break down,
okay, here's why I didn't buyit, or here's why this character
motivation doesn't make anysense to me based on how the
writers have already craftedthis character, and I think it's
going to be really, reallyhelpful to apply it to Our own
(11:19):
writing, because charactermotivation is everything,
whether it's in romance plot,everything. So I'm really,
really excited, because Chelseais my go to person whenever I'm
like, oh, I need help. Like,what do I do here? My characters
are doing this. And so I'mreally excited to talk about
(11:39):
stuff that I love, and I haven'tseen a podcast like this. So
hopefully, hopefully it'll behelpful to other people.
Chelsea Moye (11:47):
I think it's really exciting. And I just love
diving into, like, the characterpsychology, because that's what
really drives all of thesestories, as on a deeper level,
is the psychology of thesecharacters and how their
psychology either clashes, yep,and that's what creates the
chemistry at a deeper level. AndI'm really excited to see, like,
(12:09):
you know, I'm excited to analyzeit, and I'm excited to apply it
to our own writing.
Heather Cardona (12:15):
Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Alright.
Well, is there anything elsethat we want to discuss before
we move on to our first episode.
Chelsea Moye (12:28):
Um, I think we're good. I think we just need to
let people know that what we aregoing to be doing for this first
season of the podcast, whatwe're going to be focusing on in
the next upcoming episodes. AndI think we're good to move on to
our next episode.
Heather Cardona (12:43):
Alright, go ahead. Why don't you? Why don't
you handle that? So I am a
Chelsea Moye (12:48):
total for Gould, so that's what we're going to be
doing. We are going to belooking at the goal and Lucy
from Fallout, and we're going tobe going episode by episode, and
not just breaking down thecharacter chemistry and like the
characters and their growth andthe arc and the potential for a
romance between them, but thestory as a whole and how it sets
(13:09):
up that potential.
Heather Cardona (13:10):
Oh yeah, I
Chelsea Moye (13:10):
have some cracks also, like I have some crack
theories that I'm going to putout there. Crack
Heather Cardona (13:16):
theories are everything we need. The crack
theories I love just the littlemy favorite thing to do is look
at each character's own storyand figure out, how do they
mirror each other? And I don'tknow if this is like a conscious
thing on the writer's part, butlike, and we'll get into this
when we start getting into thefallout episodes. But just when
(13:41):
you are writing, how cansomething that your hero does is
also something that your heroand either does the opposite or
something similar and veryvaguely like both the ghoul and
Lucy are both looking forfamily, whether it's in the same
way or not. That is just oneexample of a mirror. And if we
(14:02):
take it back to my originalship, Daggy, oh my gosh, I
always do this. Daphne andShaggy. One of the things that
people talk about and why theythink that maybe the creators
were secretly shipping themtogether was because, if you
look at the coloring, thecoloring of their like clothes.
(14:23):
It was very, I don't even know,like, it was very like Daphne
had, like a green, sort of,like, I don't know, a scarf or
whatever. And it was veryreminiscent to shaggy shirt,
whereas Fred, sort of Ascot, wasorange, which is very
reminiscent of velma's Orange.And so I don't know if that
(14:43):
means anything, but that waslike a piece of like, oh, this
could be, but again, that is anexample of a crack theory. And
we are all about crack theoriesbecause they give us life. So,
so, yeah, so let's so it'sreally, I'm really excited that
you guys are here. We both. Are,and we hope that you enjoy this
and that it helps you. So if youYeah, if you have any other
(15:07):
questions, you feel free to dropthem in the comments, and we
will see you soon. Bye,
Unknown (15:14):
hi guys, see you again soon. Bye.
Hi guys, welcome to our new podcast. We,
or I will go down with thisship. I am Heather and Chelsea.
All right, Chelsea, why don't wetalk about what this podcast is
even about
Chelsea Moye (00:22):
All right. So for those of you who aren't aware,
shipping is the act of creatinga romantic pairing between two
people or characters who are notnecessarily otherwise
romantically linked. That'scalled crack shipping, but we'll
get to that later. And shippersare people who ship these
characters, and the pairingitself is called a ship.
Heather Cardona (00:40):
And what is the difference between canon
shipping and what me and youbasically are, which are crack
shippers? Okay? So
Chelsea Moye (00:50):
a cannon ship is a ship that happens in the actual
piece of pop culture or media,like in Harry Potter. Harry and
Jenny are cannon, and Ron andHermione are canon. And then you
have crack ships like for me, Ialways ship Draco and Hermione.
(01:11):
I will ship it forever, untilthe day I die. I don't care.
That's my crackship.
Heather Cardona (01:14):
And I ship Snape in Hermione, and I will
die on that hill too. And crackshipping is just the most fun,
just because the community,because we're all we're all
together, just crack shippingAnyway, great and so, but we're
not just here to talk aboutships. We are here to talk about
(01:39):
how we can apply this popculture to writing, because we
are both authors. So Chelsea,why don't you talk about your
background as an author,
Chelsea Moye (01:56):
Regency romances as Olivia Marwood. I also write
steamy cowboy romances as LaurenWheeler, I have a lot of pen
names. I'm very ADHD, and I liketo write in all directions at
once. And I'm also adevelopmental editor, and I see
this happen all day, every day.Romance is my preferred genre,
and I really like love seeinghow couples come together in
(02:21):
stories. Yep,
Heather Cardona (02:22):
and I'm Heather, obviously I have
multiple pen names for the samereason that you do. I love I
love romance as my main genre,and I love all the sub genres
within it, whether it's urbanfantasy, fantasy, even cozy
mystery, um, dark hockeyromance, hockey romance,
historical romance, just all thethings. I love it. And like you
(02:46):
said, I love watching thecharacters come together. And I
also do plotting, and so I focuson outlining and hitting those
story beats as well as characterarc and development. And I feel
like you and I have a verystrong sense of structure, not
only with plot, with thatexternal plot, but with
(03:08):
character motivation, with thatromance, and how we can make it
make sense, whether it's darkromance, whether it's something
as Insta love, just anything IFeel me and you have a good
grasp of, okay, how does thisfit into the story world, or why
do we ship certain things thataren't canonical? And I think
(03:31):
that breaking that down also isgoing to help us as writers, or
anyone who's listening, becauseof how writers have set certain
things up or developed certaincharacters. So since we're
talking about ships, Chelsea,what was your first ship ever
that you can remember?
Chelsea Moye (03:50):
Oh, gosh, like so I have been a hardcore Indiana
Jones girlie for my whole life.And you know, Indy has a
different girl in almost everyfilm, except for the most recent
ones. And and I was always ahardcore indie Marion shipper,
like she was the only one whocould go toe to toe with him.
She was the only one who matchedhim on every level. She was the
(04:11):
only one who was perfect forhim. So like my first hardcore
ship ever since I was ittybitty, has always been indie and
Marion Ravenwood,
Heather Cardona (04:19):
that is adorable, and I feel like that's
so sophisticated. And I'm overhere like, I think Daphne and
Shaggy should have beentogether. That was my ship. So
anytime I saw the 13 ghosts ofScooby, doo I was, I was on it.
I know everyone hated that onebecause of scrappy, but gosh, I
loved it because it was onlyDaphne and it was only Shaggy,
(04:42):
and that's all I care about,yep, and so, okay, so if you had
a OTP, is one true pairing, andI know it's so hard because we
are, both of us are part of somany different fandoms, but if
you could pick. One ship rightnow, or even, let's not even do
(05:03):
one, let's say top, top fiveships, or any ships that come to
your mind, just so we can givepeople who are listening or
watching us a sense of who weare and what kind of dynamics
we're into. So what are yourships that you're kind of
following right now?
Chelsea Moye (05:21):
Okay, um, my, I'll give you a top three. Okay,
right? Um, definitely vaultghoul or Ghoulcy. I've heard it
both ways. Um, the ghoul andLucy from Fallout. I'm hardcore.
There for that enemies to loversvibe. I am so into it. Um,
Polin. I love Penelope and Colinso much. I've read Julia Quinn's
(05:44):
books. I loved the book, and Ilove the first part of season
three. I'm ready for the secondpart of
Heather Cardona (05:51):
bridgerton. Bridgerton, right? Okay,
Chelsea Moye (05:54):
and let's see who's my third like, currently,
because we have, we have a lotgoing on in this house, but, um,
like, Rip, Rip and Beth. Like,oh, yeah, that's
Heather Cardona (06:05):
an obvious one. Hardcore.
Chelsea Moye (06:08):
OTP, I love them so much. They inspired
characters in the book I'mcurrently writing. Like, I adore
Rip and Beth. So yeah, that's mytop three.
Heather Cardona (06:19):
And I think it's really interesting, because
rip and Beth is canon on a call,and usually you and I don't go
for the canon, but that pairingis just so perfect, like the
writing for both of them worksso well. The characters have
that chemistry. I believeeverything I want them to be
together, because usually I'mnot that way at all. And
(06:43):
obviously ghoul, see, we don'tknow yet as of right now. I
mean, I guess technically,canonically, she and Max are
together, but, I mean, sheditched his to go with the
ghoul. So
Chelsea Moye (06:56):
yeah, like, I really have high hopes that they
might do us some fan service andgo with the chemistry, but I
don't know that they will. But Ihave high hopes, like, and I'm
spoiled having read so much inthe indie space, like, where we
get served exactly we want tosee. And I'm just like, on
(07:17):
mainstream media, can you pleaseget on this bandwagon and do
some fan service.
Heather Cardona (07:21):
Yeah, and I think that that's something that
we definitely will go into.Because, of course, we're going
to have our Fallout episodes,whether we rehash the series or
we just talk about the ship ingeneral, and we might do all of
it just because I think thatobviously that's what's going
like. It's recent, and we canpoint to it, but just the
writing is so strong. And likeyou said, the chemistry between
(07:44):
the actors are just it's onpoint, and I think especially
because the type of media thatwe are going to dissect for the
most part is visual. And sotalking about chemistry between
the actors, if you're a writer,how can we translate that
chemistry on a page where we'renot necessarily watching it? I
(08:05):
think that that's also a reallygood topic for you, and I to
kind of break down too, becauseit definitely is possible for
me, my ships. I mean, I'm allover the place. I love, like
fandoms and everything, but likeyou, I'm very much ghoul and
Lucy. Like, I thirst for that. Ilove it's almost grumpy
(08:26):
sunshine, if you will. Like, Ilove that. I'm just, I'm just
gonna like word vomit. I loveDamon and Rhaenyra from House of
Dragon. I already touched on,you know, Snape and Hermione,
Daryl and Beth from The WalkingDead. If we're talking about,
oh, one of the it's it was goingto be canonical, but we just
(08:49):
didn't get another. Season wasFrank Castle and Karen Page from
the Punisher, and then from theanime sphere. I love Kakashi and
Sakura, which it's a very like,it's kind of a professor
student, which clearly is kindof my jam. I also, and I like
(09:12):
Levi and Historia from Attack onTitan. Gosh, I'm like, looking
at my funkos to see who else.Oh, Beetlejuice and Lydia. I'm
like, all about that. I'm justlike, looking for inspiration.
Oh Wolverine and Rogue. I love Ilove them. And again, these are
(09:33):
all basically, like, crackships. But yeah, that's
basically like, that's, that'swhere my head is right now. And
so I think that, yeah,
Chelsea Moye (09:43):
was Wolverine and Mystique, wow,
Heather Cardona (09:46):
oh. I mean no judgment. I totally, I can
understand that. But yeah, so Idon't know. I just love, I think
the chemistry between HughJackman and Anna Paquin. I. Oh,
so good, so good, and it'll beinteresting, yeah. But anyway,
okay, so that's basically whereour heads are, and our job, our
(10:10):
goal, is to take take this mediaand how we can apply it to our
own writing. Because, likeChelsea said in the indie
sphere, we can write these shipsthat in mainstream are crack
ships, and we can dissect, howcan we do this in a way where we
can become sympathetic with acharacter who, potentially, like
(10:33):
Damon Targaryen, is just, youknow, sordid, debased, like all
of these wretched things, but hehas that one good thing that all
of people love to read about,and how can we apply that to our
own writing and just kind of gofrom there? And also we aren't
going to be afraid to talk aboutwhat's going wrong in mainstream
(10:58):
and why certain canonical shipsjust did not work for us,
whether people agree with it ornot, but we can break down,
okay, here's why I didn't buyit, or here's why this character
motivation doesn't make anysense to me based on how the
writers have already craftedthis character, and I think it's
going to be really, reallyhelpful to apply it to Our own
(11:19):
writing, because charactermotivation is everything,
whether it's in romance plot,everything. So I'm really,
really excited, because Chelseais my go to person whenever I'm
like, oh, I need help. Like,what do I do here? My characters
are doing this. And so I'mreally excited to talk about
(11:39):
stuff that I love, and I haven'tseen a podcast like this. So
hopefully, hopefully it'll behelpful to other people.
Chelsea Moye (11:47):
I think it's really exciting. And I just love
diving into, like, the characterpsychology, because that's what
really drives all of thesestories, as on a deeper level,
is the psychology of thesecharacters and how their
psychology either clashes, yep,and that's what creates the
chemistry at a deeper level. AndI'm really excited to see, like,
(12:09):
you know, I'm excited to analyzeit, and I'm excited to apply it
to our own writing.
Heather Cardona (12:15):
Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Alright.
Well, is there anything elsethat we want to discuss before
we move on to our first episode.
Chelsea Moye (12:28):
Um, I think we're good. I think we just need to
let people know that what we aregoing to be doing for this first
season of the podcast, whatwe're going to be focusing on in
the next upcoming episodes. AndI think we're good to move on to
our next episode.
Heather Cardona (12:43):
Alright, go ahead. Why don't you? Why don't
you handle that? So I am a
Chelsea Moye (12:48):
total for Gould, so that's what we're going to be
doing. We are going to belooking at the goal and Lucy
from Fallout, and we're going tobe going episode by episode, and
not just breaking down thecharacter chemistry and like the
characters and their growth andthe arc and the potential for a
romance between them, but thestory as a whole and how it sets
(13:09):
up that potential.
Heather Cardona (13:10):
Oh yeah, I
Chelsea Moye (13:10):
have some cracks also, like I have some crack
theories that I'm going to putout there. Crack
Heather Cardona (13:16):
theories are everything we need. The crack
theories I love just the littlemy favorite thing to do is look
at each character's own storyand figure out, how do they
mirror each other? And I don'tknow if this is like a conscious
thing on the writer's part, butlike, and we'll get into this
when we start getting into thefallout episodes. But just when
(13:41):
you are writing, how cansomething that your hero does is
also something that your heroand either does the opposite or
something similar and veryvaguely like both the ghoul and
Lucy are both looking forfamily, whether it's in the same
way or not. That is just oneexample of a mirror. And if we
(14:02):
take it back to my originalship, Daggy, oh my gosh, I
always do this. Daphne andShaggy. One of the things that
people talk about and why theythink that maybe the creators
were secretly shipping themtogether was because, if you
look at the coloring, thecoloring of their like clothes.
(14:23):
It was very, I don't even know,like, it was very like Daphne
had, like a green, sort of,like, I don't know, a scarf or
whatever. And it was veryreminiscent to shaggy shirt,
whereas Fred, sort of Ascot, wasorange, which is very
reminiscent of velma's Orange.And so I don't know if that
(14:43):
means anything, but that waslike a piece of like, oh, this
could be, but again, that is anexample of a crack theory. And
we are all about crack theoriesbecause they give us life. So,
so, yeah, so let's so it'sreally, I'm really excited that
you guys are here. We both. Are,and we hope that you enjoy this
and that it helps you. So if youYeah, if you have any other
(15:07):
questions, you feel free to dropthem in the comments, and we
will see you soon. Bye,
Unknown (15:14):
hi guys, see you again soon. Bye.
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