October 11, 2024 • 42 mins
In this episode, host Rachel Foster speaks with Niesha White, an experienced UX designer and founder of Birmingham Black Techies. They discuss Niesha's unconventional entry into tech, her talent for community building, and how she built a supportive network for Black tech enthusiasts in the Birmingham, Alabama area.
Want to join in the discussion? Call or text (404) 425-9862 with your questions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Welcome to Imperfect Genius, the podcast that helps Black women thrive by providingtechnical advice on effectively navigating the business development journey and offers
advice to all women on successfully building careers in the tech industry.
I'm your host, Rachel Foster, a tech professional, educator, and entrepreneur.
Today I'm speaking with Niesha White.
Niesha is an experienced UX designer, community builder, and the founder of BirminghamBlack Techies, a community of tech lovers in the Birmingham, Alabama area.
(00:39):
With a tech journey expanding eight years, she's evolved from front end development todesigning intuitive digital spaces.
Her superpower lies in making technology feel seamless and championing diversity in tech.
Niesha, welcome to the podcast.
Hi, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to talk to you.
Yeah, this is going to be an awesome conversation.
I'm really looking forward to it.
(01:00):
And I don't know if I told you, by the way, I love your LinkedIn headline.
When we first...
I should go back a little bit and talk about when we first met.
We met on LinkedIn and we just recently connected live or virtually via video.
But we originally met via connection on LinkedIn and I think we exchanged some messages.
But the thing that struck me the most was when I saw your name and I saw your headline,which I'm going to for the listeners, I'm going to read it.
(01:26):
says, my superpower is designing intuitive digital experiences.
I was like, that is such an awesome LinkedIn headline.
say what my superpower is.
I'm don't know what my superpower is.
But I have to say having followed you and been in sort of following along a little bitwith Birmingham Black Techies, I think that you also, I think you might have multiple
superpowers and one of them is definitely community building.
(01:47):
And we're going to dive into that.
But I think we should start with, you know, let's, start at the beginning.
Let's start with your background.
And like, I loved for you to tell the listeners how you guys started in tech.
what's the way that I normally phrase this question for techies who are on the podcast iswhat's your tech origin story?
Okay, I love that question.
So I feel like my tech origin story was honestly a little chaotic because there wasn'tlike, wasn't like a thought of like, I just want to be in tech.
(02:15):
wasn't like that was something that I always knew I wanted to do.
Now I will say going back to little Niesha, I always loved computers.
I always loved playing games on computers.
I liked video games.
liked, I liked technology from a young age, but
I didn't think of it as like a career path.
So when I went to college, I was one of those people who unfortunately like changed mymajor a million times.
(02:39):
Like I started out as a, yes, I started out as a broadcast journalism major.
Yeah.
Then at one point I was music industry major.
I was playing piano.
I was a graphic design major.
And then last I went to computer science.
So the switch was from graphic design to computer science.
(03:00):
because as I was taking a web design course, I was like, this is cool, but I actually wantto know how you build a website.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I like to tell people, so my first experience with designing stuff was MySpace.
So, I'm like back to the Back in the day, for the young listeners, once upon a time,before Facebook, there was MySpace.
(03:27):
I'm sorry, go ahead.
I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Go ahead.
No, MySpace was a great place because it was custom.
You can make it look the way you want it to.
And most importantly, you could like try to outdo your friends and have your page lookbetter than there.
So that was something I really enjoyed was trying to make it look good.
Didn't know it was dabbling with CSS and HTML.
(03:47):
Didn't figure that out until later, but that was the first time I ever played with code.
But yeah, my tech origin story was pretty much me trying to figure out exactly where I fittrying different majors.
And then once I took that web design course, I was like, okay, I really like the designpart a lot, but I also really am super curious about the technology behind it.
(04:09):
And also, most of all, I've always been very financial focused.
So I was looking at, okay, this could be a good salary.
also, when I'm looking at
jobs that are going to grow and industries that are going to grow in the next decade andtwo decades.
Tech is one of those.
I was like, okay, this makes sense.
That's really smart.
I'm interested because, so I was going to say that arc from broadcast journalism tocomputer science is like, there's a lot of changes in there.
(04:38):
But then based on your explanation in terms of you wanted to understand what was under thecovers, I wonder where you, one of those kids that used to take things apart just to see
how they work.
so let me think.
I'm like, really?
I was one of those kids that was always between a book.
So, yeah, I was always in a book all the time in a book saving money.
(04:59):
Very boring child actually.
that's so funny.
That is so funny.
I was just wondering because I just like, to me, the front end design, you know, and, and,and doing designing, you're talking about designing your MySpace page and like,
I'm a visual learner.
So to me, the design of the front end or the visual design is very different than theunderlying coding.
(05:23):
I'm an ex-programmer too, but I'm, I'm a visual learner.
So I don't know, those two are just so different to me.
So to go from designing your web space, your MySpace page to actually wanting to do codeand much less HTML and CSS.
I'm like, wow, that's fascinating.
Okay, that's very interesting.
But it was in college that you discovered it.
You said you played games.
(05:44):
when you were younger, but it was in college that you discovered that you were really intotech.
Okay.
Now I'm curious though, when you were in college, did you see a lot of other people ofcolor or other women in your program?
Yeah.
So then this is another, I feel like I also had a not traditional experience with thisbecause so I changed my major a million times.
(06:06):
So again, like I said, very financial focused.
So it got to the point where I was like, I need to work.
So I got a job, I was actually working at a bank, and then I switched to doing my classes100 % virtual.
So all of my core CS classes, I took online.
So I feel like it was a unique experience because in one way, I had to be hyperindependent and figure out things on my own, which really helped me a lot when I started
(06:36):
working because you code and you get a bug, I had to figure it out.
So it helped me with that.
And I think it also helped me not feel like, like everybody's isolated.
We're all working virtually.
So I didn't feel out of place in a way that I think I could have felt if I was inclassroom.
Okay.
Okay.
That's it.
That's interesting.
That's very interesting.
cause the reason I asked the question is because, for listeners of the podcast, no, causeI've told this story a while, but I started a long time ago in tech and I was always the
(07:04):
only woman, the only black person in my class.
Well, no, there was a, there was a black guy that took all my classes.
If he's listening, Hey Kelvin.
But there was a black guy that took all my classes with.
But my point is, and then later I went and I was a professor of software engineering and Iwas looking out at the students like in the big lectures and I was like, wait a minute,
why does this still look the same as it did 20 years ago?
(07:26):
I was like, I don't understand, why has it no change?
So that's why I wanted to understand, but you're right, like doing it virtually, you don'tfeel that isolation.
So that's actually, that's probably why you stayed in tech is going to be my guess becauseit can be very isolating.
So tell me about your tech career.
once you actually graduated and you went out into tech, tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah.
(07:46):
So, yeah, I got to a point where I would say once I switched my major to computer scienceand I started getting into those like core classes, I knew I had to move because I'm from,
I'm from Dothan, Alabama.
It's a small city.
There were not any tech jobs there.
I was looking online and I'm like, I'm like, I will not get a job here.
(08:08):
So, but I knew I didn't want to move too far.
So I moved to Birmingham and I was still at that time, still working at the bank, lookingactively looking for internships.
And I found a paid internship at a manufacturing company and it was for a softwaredeveloper.
So that was my first role in tech was a software developer.
(08:31):
And I was specifically started off doing SQL coding, just doing stuff with the database,working with Oracle.
Honestly, that was a tough place to start.
It was really...
Okay, you were talking to an ex Oracle employee and former SQL PL SQL programmer.
Believe me, I completely understand.
(08:52):
Well, but having said that though, one of the reasons that I worked at Oracle and I didthat is when in grad school, I focused on database development.
Even in undergrad, my senior project was to build a database from the ground up.
Then when I went into grad school,
and I had to pick a specialty, I specialize in database systems.
So I understood, speaking of like understanding things under the covers, I understoodthat, but going to work for Oracle again, still that's not, that is no joke right there.
(09:18):
So anything Oracle related is, it can be very tough.
all that to say, I hear you, but keep going.
you started off with SQL and Oracle.
Yeah, it was hard.
It was really hard, but I will say like, I wouldn't change it.
I'm actually really glad I started out with it because I feel like working with a databasegave me an understanding.
Because from there I was like, okay, I know this isn't what like this isn't what I wantedto do and take.
(09:41):
That was my step into that company.
So I asked if I could move to a team that was doing front end development, because I knewI wanted to get into that and I knew I liked design.
So they, I did a good job working with the SQL.
So they allowed me to move to another department, which was great.
And when I got there, I really was appreciative of the, of the understanding of workingwith a database because it just helped me really understand like,
(10:06):
Okay, like these things that I'm designing, they're not coming out of midair.
coming, they have to be coming from somewhere.
Right.
Yeah.
do those elements come from?
Right.
And it helped me like think through APIs and think through, the performance of something.
So I'm really glad that I had that introduction because I think even now, as a UXdesigner, when I design something, I think about this has to come from somewhere.
(10:32):
right.
Does it make sense?
this going to be too much?
Is it going to make the website slow?
So yeah.
So I asked to move to a team that was doing front end development and I started doing someangular coding using TypeScript.
I enjoyed that.
And then I got to the point where it's like the coding was the part that I wanted to dothe least.
(10:57):
And what I wanted to do the most was design the interface.
And so when I, once I got to that point.
I started just doing some independent learning, taking some courses online to learn aboutUX design, what tools to use, how to do it.
And I'm like, the way I knew that was for me was because I love taking those courses.
(11:18):
I love going on YouTube.
I love reading books about it.
And so it helped me really gain an understanding.
And then I was able to leave that company and get a product design job at an ad techcompany.
Yeah.
And so.
That's how I got into UX design.
So I'm curious because I have to say at some point I had considered going into UX design,but I was like, I don't want to go back to school and study.
(11:44):
it sounds like you did self study.
And when you were moving, when you were making that transition to the front end to be, tobeing a UX designer, did you find that the, that self study helped you in terms of your
resume credentials and the interview process, or was it
or were you, you know, was it still tough?
Were they still looking for a specific degree?
Like, you know, there are degrees in UX design and so you're competing against those samecandidates.
(12:06):
So how did you make yourself stand out in those interviews to get those roles?
Yeah, the way I helped myself stand out was by working on my portfolio.
I know if I didn't have a strong portfolio, I would have never gotten the role, but I hadlike some projects that I'd worked on.
Like I had worked on like this mobile app for like this traveling app.
(12:28):
from beginning to end, like it was a really thorough app and I really done a lot ofresearch working on it.
And I know that taking the time to do that really helped me get my first position becauseit's like, I had like half the experience because I had been designing the front end
websites that I've been using and I had been doing that for some years, but I didn't, likeyou said, I didn't have the formal education.
(12:50):
was more self-taught.
So having the portfolio really allowed them to see they're like, okay, like she actuallyknows how to do this.
Okay, that's awesome.
And were those projects that you were working on for yourself or for a company or both?
Yeah, those were projects I was working on for myself.
Okay, see, that's good.
That's good.
So you were basically, you were using, you were learning and then building the projectsfor yourself and then using that for your portfolio to get your next gig.
(13:17):
That's good information for our listeners who I'm...
You know, some of them are going to be students and people who are early in their careerand trying to figure out how do they make those transitions.
So I think that's really good information.
So tell me about what prompted you to found Birmingham Black Techies and tell me aboutthat journey.
Yeah.
Okay.
(13:37):
So I first started Birmingham Black Techies in November of 2019.
So it will be five years next month, is...
Wow.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
It was like, my gosh.
That's impressive.
It's going to be five years.
So I started Birmingham Black Techies really, I always say out of necessity because I wastrying to meet people who had similar interests to me and that were also black.
(14:06):
And so I started going out to some local tech events and I'll add.
this by saying like, I felt this need to connect with people because I moved toBirmingham.
I didn't know anyone there before I got there.
So it's like, I'm mostly, I'm just working a lot.
So if I'm not making friends that work, I'm not making friends.
So sad, but true.
(14:29):
And sadly, that's the case for a lot of folks in tech because we spend so many hours infront of the computer, right?
So, yeah, it was so hard.
So I went to meet up.
And so first I started searching for groups.
And I joined like some that were for like, like there was like a women's foodies group inBirmingham, which was cool.
And there were some other, but I'm like, there's nothing black and tech related.
(14:51):
so then I'm like, okay, I actually like struggled with the idea for a while.
If I should start a meetup group, if I shouldn't, and I settled on doing it, to this day,I honestly don't know what made me just decide to do it because that isn't my personality.
Like, interesting.
Yeah, like I will, I will say I will start things.
(15:14):
I will lead things, but that was completely, I feel like really out of my comfort zonebecause like I started things and led little and led groups and stuff at work, but that
was kind of different because it's like, I'm getting paid to be here and already knowthese people.
So that was not, that was not something I would usually do.
But like you said, you said you started it out of necessity.
(15:37):
You had a need to.
you needed a community of people in tech who were black, who looked like you, that had ashared experience.
And I mean, honestly, I think that's just a part of the experience of being a black womanis sometimes you're like, all right, it doesn't exist.
I guess I'm going to have to go create it.
I guess I'm just going to have to build this thing myself.
(15:57):
So kudos to you.
So how did you start it?
Yeah.
So when I meet up, started the group of
And just, I don't know, the name was easy for me.
I I was like Birmingham Black people would take Birmingham Black Techies.
And immediately after that, I went to LinkedIn and started trying to search for Blackpeople who were in Birmingham and that were in tech or maybe students.
(16:24):
So I went to LinkedIn and the way it really worked was like, let's say I found one Blackperson who was in tech.
I would try to look through their connections because I'm like,
They probably know more people here in Birmingham that are in black and in tech.
And so then I started sending out messages to people as I was sending them connectionslike, Hey, my name is Niesha.
I'm a software developer at this company.
(16:45):
I recently started this meetup group.
would love if you would could join it and tell people about it.
And so, got really, I got really good responses.
I got to say, you're like, this is, you're like, it's not my personality.
Meanwhile, you out there just like reaching out to everybody on LinkedIn that is black andin Birmingham going, okay, look, I got this group.
You need to come join it.
And then not only that, you need to tell five friends.
(17:07):
So for you to say that's not your personality, that's, that's okay.
That's impressive.
I'm sorry.
So you were, so you reach out to all these folks.
So you were basically, looking through people's connections and looking for black peoplein the Birmingham area who were in tech.
And you're, so you're sending them a message saying,
Did you have an event planned at that time or you're just saying I'm starting a group?
Just join me on meetup.
I think at that time I maybe had a vent on the schedule for that January.
(17:33):
So like it was maybe a few months, two months out.
Yeah, I think I did have that event.
So I was telling them, Hey, we'll be here in January.
and so, and then, so then from there is like trying to find a location that worked outreally smooth.
and then we had the first event was a really, really great turnout.
And, we posted the photos on LinkedIn.
(17:56):
I feel like it went like micro viral and the Birmingham tech.
Yeah.
Everybody loves a good picture though.
Right.
Whoa, didn't know that.
Like, didn't know there was that many black people interested in taking Birmingham.
So, right.
Yeah.
So when I posted that, I got like a.
(18:17):
a of messages on LinkedIn, people being like, hey, this is cool.
Some people saying like, hey, I love to learn more.
Some people just being like, thanks for putting this together.
And so from there, yeah, we had another event.
And then of course, March 2020 happened.
So at that point, it's funny because I never once thought of just ending the group.
(18:43):
interesting.
Yeah.
When I look back, I'm like, I'm surprised I wasn't just like, whoop, that was nice.
That would have been your out, you you're like, well, this isn't really my thing.
This is my exit door, you know?
And you're like, nope, we're going to, we're going to struggle through.
Yeah.
think it's cause I'm just a very like- See that's why you are, that's why I say you aredefinitely a community builder.
Cause somebody who's not a community builder would have been like, okay, well, it was, itwas a nice try.
(19:05):
We had a good run.
It's time, you know, the world is shut down.
It's time to end it.
But you're like, nope.
Got to figure out a way to keep it going.
So I love that.
Okay.
So March, 2020 happens and you're trying to figure out what's next.
So what happened?
Yeah.
So what happened next was we did like everybody else and hopped on zoom.
So we started planning.
(19:27):
So I started planning virtual events from there.
And it's so funny because like at the time I didn't realize I was planning so many virtualevents until I look back on our meetup now.
And like we were having them quite often.
some of the events were like educational, some were more social, like playing among Tellthe audience more about the type of events you were having then and then we'll, we'll, get
(19:52):
to present day, but what kind of events were you having when the whole world was shutdown?
Yeah, like one time, one of our fun events where we played like among us together.
That was so, that was nice.
That's fun.
Yeah.
I'm like, one of the ones like a learning one was I did a walkthrough of how to
build like a match game using JavaScript, I think.
(20:15):
So that was cool.
And then we also did stuff like that was more like educating people to things going on inBirmingham.
So like we had someone from a local nonprofit that was doing like some tech work talkabout, these are the opportunities we have.
So they, and we also did like virtual movie night, movie nights and had somebody hop onand talk about cryptocurrency.
(20:38):
So it kind of rotated between learning something tech related or doing something fun witheach other or learning about something in the Birmingham area, some type of opportunity.
(21:01):
That's so great.
I love that.
I love that.
Okay.
All right.
So you make it through the pandemic.
And also the other thing that happened in 2020 was George Floyd.
I would imagine that there was, did you have cultural events around, like, let me tellyou, sort of explain the question.
So the company that I was working for at the time had a really strong black community andour head of HR was a black woman.
(21:26):
And so after George Floyd and just all of the stress and tension that was happening at theend of 2020,
You had Breonna Taylor and other things.
She actually brought in a counselor to just talk to just the black folks at the company,just to talk about what's it like to show up to work in this environment and things like
that.
So I'm curious, did you do any kind of serious events like that at the end of 2020, when,you know, after George Floyd, or did that impact you at all?
(21:53):
mean, obviously, I don't want to say obviously, but I think it impacted all of that.
That was kind of a dumb question, but you know what I mean?
Like, did it impact the...
Did it impact Birmingham black techies?
Yeah.
it, impacted BBT by, it put a spotlight on us because I feel like at that time, as youknow, all the corporations were trying to figure out a way to show I'm down with DEI.
(22:16):
Like they were, they were trying so hard to show that like, Hey, we're different.
the tech companies were really trying.
So
As a result of that, I had more people reach out to me and want to collaborate, partner,do events together, which was good and bad.
It's good because it was nice that more people were learning about us and people wanted tobuild partnerships.
(22:42):
The bad thing was it was terrible for my work-life balance because I'm still workingand...
at, and BBT was like taking up a lot of my time.
So it was like, okay, I literally do not have a social life now.
and, also, and now it's gotten better, but I will say at that time, well, no, no, cause Iwas during COVID.
(23:05):
Cause I was about to say like Birmingham, because of the size of this city, I feel likeit's a place where people really expect to meet you in person and not virtually.
okay.
Okay.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
was time to see when to meet people, which I will say during that time that was still in2020.
So it was still virtual meetings.
So that helped, but still it was a lot to balance work and balance that.
(23:29):
And also it just turned it into a direction that wasn't really trying to go because mywhole idea for Birmingham Black Techies was for it to be a community for black people who
are in tech or love tech.
Any type of tech enthusiast, I always tell people, you do not have to work in tech.
You don't have to code.
(23:49):
For whatever reason, when I say Birmingham, but techies, people are like, do I have tocode?
I'm like, no.
Like, yeah, I get that.
get that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I built it with this idea of it being this community.
So now it's like, okay, now I feel like I'm becoming a DI like recruiter or something.
Like, wait, you got to explain that.
(24:11):
Why do you say that?
Yeah, because I felt like a lot of companies saw us as a source for diverse tech talent.
it is.
They're using you as a source for the people.
Okay.
And it's like, it is a source for diverse tech talent, but also it's like...
You pay your recruiters to go find talent.
Exactly.
(24:31):
You're not paying me.
So why are you trying to stress me out?
Right.
Or actually, I don't know.
Maybe you could ask them for a fee.
Like, okay, next time somebody reaches out to you and saying they're trying to use yourcommunity to build out their workforce, their DEI workforce, you need to be like, okay,
what percentage am I getting of the cut?
Exactly.
(24:52):
So it just got to a point really where I just felt like it was a lot.
I will say like over time, of course that slowed down.
We know as the DEI demand went down, the outreach went down, but I did reach a point Iwill say in, it was last year where I just was burnt out, completely burnt out and just
(25:13):
tired of doing everything by myself.
And over the years I had tried to, I had people say like they would help, but it alwayswould usually fall out, fall off or.
it would just be really inconsistent to the point where it wasn't helpful.
Cause it's kind of like, if I need help on this and I need it, like the turnaround to bewithin a week and like, don't hear from you, like, you know, it's just hard to get in
(25:37):
touch.
It becomes a thing where it's like, need, I just need to do this myself.
So I just kept running into that where it's just like, like I'm just not really able tofind the help that I need.
So I just got to a point where I was like, okay.
I'm going take a pause, collect my thoughts and think of what I want to do next.
(25:59):
so what conclusion did you come to?
Yeah.
from there, I did that for like, yeah, that was a while, like some months, I would say.
And I had a sporadic events during that time.
So it wasn't like completely cold.
Also,
you know, still maybe communicate in our Slack or Facebook group.
(26:21):
So it wasn't, I wasn't completely gone, but the events were like just very sporadic.
So I came to the conclusion that I was going to try to get a small group of advisors, somepeople that I knew personally or well, first I thought I would just pick some people that
I knew personally.
Then I had the idea of like, let me put out an open call and just see who'd be interested.
(26:44):
And then maybe I could pick.
Yeah, and I'm like, then maybe I can pick mostly people that I'm familiar with and throwin one or two that I don't know just to see what happens.
where'd you put the open call out on LinkedIn or where?
Yeah, I did it on LinkedIn, our Slack, our Facebook group and our newsletter.
OK, so it was so you were asking the community for advisors.
(27:07):
Gotcha.
OK, gotcha.
All right.
So so I ended up forming a small group of advisors in July.
and so since then, me and one of my advisors, we've, planned out some events for the restof the year.
We had an event last month in September.
We'll be doing more things for the rest of the year.
(27:29):
So it is going well, but it's a learning curve for me.
Like it not going to lie.
It's been a, a, a challenge to get used to it.
Get used to having advisors and not doing it on your own or what?
Yeah, it's been hard to get used.
saw my tele, I'm a terrible delegator.
Like, I'm really bad at that because it's like, it is not even just so much as like, Iwant control of things.
(27:55):
It's because I get this trait from my mom.
My mom is extremely thoughtful and I am the same way.
So I'm always like, like, you know, people have lied.
I don't, I always feel bad.
Yeah.
I just feel bad.
Like, know, like we all got something we have do.
(28:15):
So I feel bad about it.
I think I'm slowly figuring out.
think I'm now in the process of figuring out what I need to do and what I can hand off tosomeone else, because I will say there still are some things that I need to do, because
like if it needs to be quick or if it's like a strategy strategy thing, if it's a visionthing, like I need to be the one to do it because it's in my head and I know it.
(28:38):
But if it's like something that I can like hand off to someone else, like, hey, can youbrainstorm maybe some event ideas?
And then like we look over together, like we can, that works.
So I'm in the process now of just figuring out what I need to do and what I can hand off.
That's smart.
That's smart.
Delegation is a hard thing.
It depends on, well, it depends on your personality type.
(29:01):
But for introverts and people who are empathetic and like you say, thoughtful,
It can be a hard thing to do because like you say, you're worried.
go, well, you know what?
I don't want to bother them.
They've got their lives or they've got their family or whatever it is.
And I'll just do this thing.
But then you have to start to think about self care, right?
You have to start to think about how are you taking care of yourself?
But also there are times, you you talked about, you know, if it needs to be quick, thenyou need to do it.
(29:24):
The thing that I'm having to, I'm forcing myself to, to think about and learn.
Sometimes just because you can do it and you you can count on yourself doesn't mean youshould do it.
There have been times when there are things that I was doing and I'm like, I'm spending Xhours doing this thing, whereas I could just hire a freelancer to do this in an hour.
so, you know, like it's like, and it's like, how much of my time, how much is my timeworth it?
(29:46):
At some point you have to go, how much is my time worth?
And is it, does it make more sense to, you know, and in your case, you're talking aboutadvisors, but you have to think about, well, does, somebody else have an expertise that
can do it faster than, you know, maybe
can do it faster than you because that's their specific expertise versus you juststruggling to do it on your own or whatever.
But I completely understand that.
yeah, like I said, I think you got to think about self care and make sure you'reprotecting your time.
(30:10):
it's because you were burned out.
You don't want to get to the point where you're burned out again.
Right.
And I'm not lecturing you.
I'm just saying I'm talking to myself more than I'm talking to you.
It's like, you know, physician heal thyself.
Yeah.
So I'm curious, what's next for BBT?
Like what are your goals for the next one, three, five, 10?
(30:32):
I don't know how, you know, what, do you see next for, BBT?
Okay.
So let me see.
I want to attach a timeframe to the goals, but I have, I'm like, I have a lot of goals.
I'll just say some of them.
one, I want to have us have like an official membership because right now
(30:52):
It looks like being a BBT member is going to our meetup and joining.
So I want us to have like an official membership, official membership.
Like you fill out something, you get this, you, you paid this amount annually.
Like I want us to have an official membership.
That's one thing.
I also want us to really, get integrated in the Birmingham community more, because I feellike it is not like, everybody in tech knows us, but is
(31:22):
I feel like we're way more known in Birmingham tech ecosystem, but a person in Birminghamwho maybe doesn't work in tech or who's a student at a college probably hasn't heard of
us.
So I want to get more integrated into like the actual community of Birmingham so thatpeople who are not intake, but want to learn more about it are able to find us.
(31:45):
Cause I'm like, those are the people I think really, really could find it beneficial.
I also want to, like what else, I'm like there's something in my list.
I also want to at some point get to a level where we have interns and these interns couldbe students or not.
(32:08):
I wouldn't want to put it on like, you have to be in a college.
Cause I think there also is a need for people who are middle-aged and wanting to switchcareers.
They also need to have the opportunity to learn and do things.
So I would love to have opportunity to mentor people and have, and yeah, I would actuallymaybe say it will be more of like a mentorship than an internship type of thing.
(32:32):
That's what was going say.
What are these interns doing?
Maybe they're doing all that work you need to delegate.
I would want them to do some things that I'm doing, but also I think I would love it to bea
a thing where it's like they get to connect with other tech professionals and learn aboutwhat they're doing, how they got to where they are.
(32:53):
maybe like interns.
Yeah, like you say, maybe it's a mentorship program.
It's a BBT mentorship program.
You pair everybody up or something.
Yeah, I would love that.
Also a longer term plan.
I want BBT to get into creating media.
whether that's like YouTube videos, podcasts, or just like actually creating short stufffor social media.
(33:18):
I think that would be really, really cool.
That's definitely, that's been something I consistently have thought about.
So I know it's something that I should do, but I think it's a great opportunity for it.
And again, that's another thing kind of where the mentor thing comes in, because it'slike, if people have that, they want to learn how to do it and they want to create
content, it would be really cool if that could.
(33:38):
this could be a space for them to learn and create tech-related content.
I that idea.
I love that idea.
That's amazing.
I also, I'm like, how many goals do you want?
Because I have so many.
No, you keep going.
You tell me when you're done.
I didn't set a number, so it's on you.
You tell me.
Okay, no, it's fine.
(33:59):
My next goal is to have like a big enough membership where we can have like subgroups.
So black women in Birmingham.
people who are in the LGBTQIA plus community can meet up, maybe people who are over acertain age.
I haven't thought of what the age would be, but I think that'll be helpful too.
(34:22):
I think that would be really helpful as well as like a student group.
so my goal is that we have enough members that like, though the different groups can meetup individually.
And, and kind of like, feel free to set them up on their own.
Like just like, doesn't, I really want the community to become independent.
(34:43):
So say they're in a Slack group and I'm like, Hey, any, any ladies want to meet up at suchand such place on Friday?
Then they go do that.
if it's pride month and they're like, Hey, anybody want to come to me to this Fridayevent?
They could go do that.
Like my goal is that there are enough people that people can kind of meet up as clicks.
Maybe you have girls night, boys night.
(35:04):
non-binary night, pride night.
Again, not all in the same week.
I'm just saying, you periodically have events where they can start to create those groupsand then eventually they can start their subgroups.
But just give that opportunity for those folks to get together to start maybe.
I don't know.
I'm new to community building.
(35:25):
So you've been doing it for five years.
You've got the, I'll just say you got the old hand at it.
But there's a term for that.
I can't think of right now, but anyway, so you're better off on it than me.
I'm just throwing out some ideas for you.
Wait, you said you had two more.
So that was the subgroups.
What was the other one?
My last one is I really want us to connect with more black tech groups here in the South.
(35:49):
have, virtually, we played Among Us one night with the Black Codes, their black tech groupin Nashville.
And that was fun.
And I would love for us to like do more things with black tech groups.
because Birmingham black techies isn't the only one around here.
know there are, there's definitely groups in Atlanta and then again, the group in,Nashville, there's the guy who founded black cloud geeks is in Montgomery.
(36:16):
And I feel like there may be something in Mobile, but I need to double check, but thatwould be really cool if like we could just do more things, even if it's virtually like, so
everybody doesn't have to, if it's virtually, if we could just do more things with black.
tech groups that are in the South.
Yeah.
I saw that you were an ambassador at Render.
Was it this year, this past June that you were an ambassador at Render?
(36:39):
So did that, were you able to meet some other groups that way?
So when I was at Render, didn't, unfortunately I didn't meet like any people who are inany black tech groups that I'm aware of.
like it didn't come up in conversation, but just the feeling of being at Render wasamazing.
And I would just love if
I'm like, I would just love if we could do one huge meetup with all the meetup groups thatare like, just in the deep south.
(37:05):
I think that would be so cool.
yeah.
And by the way, I just realized sometimes, you know, get to start talking inside baseball.
For the listeners who don't know, Render ATL is a tech conference in the Atlanta area thatis focused on, on...
Is it specifically marketed as being for Black people?
I know it's mostly Black people, but is that the official marketing?
Do they say that in the marketing?
(37:27):
They don't say...
say that with words, but the tone and the programming, the people who are behind it, blackpeople.
So like, I know they don't market themselves as a black tech conference, but to me it isbecause it's like, it's not just like there are a lot of black people there, but black
(37:47):
people are planning it too.
Yeah.
I tell people it's a mini Afro tech.
again, for people who don't know, Afro tech is a big tech conference in Austin every year.
and so I just told people like, yes, it's the Atlanta version of Afro tech, but it wassmaller, much smaller.
anyway, so just wanted to clarify that for people who didn't know what we're talking aboutwhen we're talking about render.
Okay.
Well, I think those are some pretty awesome goals.
(38:09):
you know, so tell me how, mean, I, again, I'm
I'm new in the community space.
I'm trying to build, I'm trying to network, I'm trying to collaborate.
But tell me, if there's anything we could do to collaborate, I'd love to help.
If there's anything I can do to help, hey, I got you on the podcast, getting your word outthere.
So tell me how I can help.
(38:30):
first of all, want to thank you for sharing your story with our listeners.
But also, before I let you go though, you got to tell people how they can find BirminghamBlack Techies and any upcoming events that you got.
Yeah, if you want to find Birmingham Black Techies, go to Birminghamblacktechies.com.
That's the best place to find because all of our links are there.
(38:50):
Our meetup link is there.
Our socials are there.
You can subscribe to the newsletter.
So I always tell people head over to our website, Birminghamblacktechies.com and you'llfind all the links there.
Okay, now the web designer in me has got to ask the domain question.
Have you tried to get bbt.com?
Is it already taken?
(39:11):
Yeah, I couldn't get it.
I was just wondering, because I'm like, I am so terrible at spelling and I would type thatURL wrong every time.
Or probably what I would probably just do is Google Birmingham Black Techies and let itfind the URL for me.
I just had to ask.
(39:32):
I feel like that's how most people find us.
It's so funny.
It's not like...
It's not like it's pointless to have a website.
We need to have a website.
when I ask most people how they find us, it's interesting because most people are findingus from Meetup.
okay.
A lot of people are finding us from there.
And then I feel like another good amount of people see something reposted on LinkedIn.
(39:58):
So though, of course, if you go to Google and you search Black Tech in Birmingham, we'regoing to be the first thing that pops up.
But mostly profiling that's on Meetup and LinkedIn.
Enter it.
OK.
No, that's cool.
That's cool.
Well, thank you so much, Niesha, for again, thank you for sharing your story with thelisteners.
We'll talk offline about other things that we can do to collaborate any way I can help.
(40:20):
Let's wrap it up here.
I want to say to my listeners that I hope that you discovered some interesting informationabout.
If you're in the Birmingham area and you love tech, because keep in mind, she said youdon't have to code.
So if you're in the Birmingham area and you love tech, then look for, just Google or lookon LinkedIn for Birmingham Black Techies.
(40:42):
If you've got questions, well, you can send me a question and I can forward it to Niesha.
You can reach out to Imperfect Genius on social media at Ask Imperfect Genius.
You can leave us a voicemail with your questions at 404.
425-9862 or you can send us a text.
You can subscribe to our newsletter.
We'll put the URL in our newsletter in the show notes.
(41:05):
So you can subscribe to our newsletter at subscribe.imperfectgenius.com and receive a copyof our show notes.
And if you're interested in online communities specifically for black and brown women inthe tech space, you can go to community.imperfectgenius.com.
Actually, again, in my show notes, I'm offering a special for October because we're just,my listeners know this, Niesha.
(41:26):
I just started this community and they've been listening to episode after episode about metrying to build this community.
So they know it's brand new.
And so I'm trying to get some people, get it started.
And we're to have a welcome party on October, on Halloween on October 31st.
So I'm offering an October special.
So again, I don't even remember that you're all off the top of my head.
(41:47):
So it will be in the show notes.
If you want that again, subscribe.imperfectteens.com to get our newsletter.
You'll get information about that in our show notes.
And until next time, I'm Rachel Foss to remind you why your journey may not be flawless.
It can be phenomenal.
Welcome to Imperfect Genius, the podcast that helps Black women thrive by providingtechnical advice on effectively navigating the business development journey and offers
advice to all women on successfully building careers in the tech industry.
I'm your host, Rachel Foster, a tech professional, educator, and entrepreneur.
Today I'm speaking with Niesha White.
Niesha is an experienced UX designer, community builder, and the founder of BirminghamBlack Techies, a community of tech lovers in the Birmingham, Alabama area.
(00:39):
With a tech journey expanding eight years, she's evolved from front end development todesigning intuitive digital spaces.
Her superpower lies in making technology feel seamless and championing diversity in tech.
Niesha, welcome to the podcast.
Hi, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to talk to you.
Yeah, this is going to be an awesome conversation.
I'm really looking forward to it.
(01:00):
And I don't know if I told you, by the way, I love your LinkedIn headline.
When we first...
I should go back a little bit and talk about when we first met.
We met on LinkedIn and we just recently connected live or virtually via video.
But we originally met via connection on LinkedIn and I think we exchanged some messages.
But the thing that struck me the most was when I saw your name and I saw your headline,which I'm going to for the listeners, I'm going to read it.
(01:26):
says, my superpower is designing intuitive digital experiences.
I was like, that is such an awesome LinkedIn headline.
say what my superpower is.
I'm don't know what my superpower is.
But I have to say having followed you and been in sort of following along a little bitwith Birmingham Black Techies, I think that you also, I think you might have multiple
superpowers and one of them is definitely community building.
(01:47):
And we're going to dive into that.
But I think we should start with, you know, let's, start at the beginning.
Let's start with your background.
And like, I loved for you to tell the listeners how you guys started in tech.
what's the way that I normally phrase this question for techies who are on the podcast iswhat's your tech origin story?
Okay, I love that question.
So I feel like my tech origin story was honestly a little chaotic because there wasn'tlike, wasn't like a thought of like, I just want to be in tech.
(02:15):
wasn't like that was something that I always knew I wanted to do.
Now I will say going back to little Niesha, I always loved computers.
I always loved playing games on computers.
I liked video games.
liked, I liked technology from a young age, but
I didn't think of it as like a career path.
So when I went to college, I was one of those people who unfortunately like changed mymajor a million times.
(02:39):
Like I started out as a, yes, I started out as a broadcast journalism major.
Yeah.
Then at one point I was music industry major.
I was playing piano.
I was a graphic design major.
And then last I went to computer science.
So the switch was from graphic design to computer science.
(03:00):
because as I was taking a web design course, I was like, this is cool, but I actually wantto know how you build a website.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I like to tell people, so my first experience with designing stuff was MySpace.
So, I'm like back to the Back in the day, for the young listeners, once upon a time,before Facebook, there was MySpace.
(03:27):
I'm sorry, go ahead.
I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Go ahead.
No, MySpace was a great place because it was custom.
You can make it look the way you want it to.
And most importantly, you could like try to outdo your friends and have your page lookbetter than there.
So that was something I really enjoyed was trying to make it look good.
Didn't know it was dabbling with CSS and HTML.
(03:47):
Didn't figure that out until later, but that was the first time I ever played with code.
But yeah, my tech origin story was pretty much me trying to figure out exactly where I fittrying different majors.
And then once I took that web design course, I was like, okay, I really like the designpart a lot, but I also really am super curious about the technology behind it.
(04:09):
And also, most of all, I've always been very financial focused.
So I was looking at, okay, this could be a good salary.
also, when I'm looking at
jobs that are going to grow and industries that are going to grow in the next decade andtwo decades.
Tech is one of those.
I was like, okay, this makes sense.
That's really smart.
I'm interested because, so I was going to say that arc from broadcast journalism tocomputer science is like, there's a lot of changes in there.
(04:38):
But then based on your explanation in terms of you wanted to understand what was under thecovers, I wonder where you, one of those kids that used to take things apart just to see
how they work.
so let me think.
I'm like, really?
I was one of those kids that was always between a book.
So, yeah, I was always in a book all the time in a book saving money.
(04:59):
Very boring child actually.
that's so funny.
That is so funny.
I was just wondering because I just like, to me, the front end design, you know, and, and,and doing designing, you're talking about designing your MySpace page and like,
I'm a visual learner.
So to me, the design of the front end or the visual design is very different than theunderlying coding.
(05:23):
I'm an ex-programmer too, but I'm, I'm a visual learner.
So I don't know, those two are just so different to me.
So to go from designing your web space, your MySpace page to actually wanting to do codeand much less HTML and CSS.
I'm like, wow, that's fascinating.
Okay, that's very interesting.
But it was in college that you discovered it.
You said you played games.
(05:44):
when you were younger, but it was in college that you discovered that you were really intotech.
Okay.
Now I'm curious though, when you were in college, did you see a lot of other people ofcolor or other women in your program?
Yeah.
So then this is another, I feel like I also had a not traditional experience with thisbecause so I changed my major a million times.
(06:06):
So again, like I said, very financial focused.
So it got to the point where I was like, I need to work.
So I got a job, I was actually working at a bank, and then I switched to doing my classes100 % virtual.
So all of my core CS classes, I took online.
So I feel like it was a unique experience because in one way, I had to be hyperindependent and figure out things on my own, which really helped me a lot when I started
(06:36):
working because you code and you get a bug, I had to figure it out.
So it helped me with that.
And I think it also helped me not feel like, like everybody's isolated.
We're all working virtually.
So I didn't feel out of place in a way that I think I could have felt if I was inclassroom.
Okay.
Okay.
That's it.
That's interesting.
That's very interesting.
cause the reason I asked the question is because, for listeners of the podcast, no, causeI've told this story a while, but I started a long time ago in tech and I was always the
(07:04):
only woman, the only black person in my class.
Well, no, there was a, there was a black guy that took all my classes.
If he's listening, Hey Kelvin.
But there was a black guy that took all my classes with.
But my point is, and then later I went and I was a professor of software engineering and Iwas looking out at the students like in the big lectures and I was like, wait a minute,
why does this still look the same as it did 20 years ago?
(07:26):
I was like, I don't understand, why has it no change?
So that's why I wanted to understand, but you're right, like doing it virtually, you don'tfeel that isolation.
So that's actually, that's probably why you stayed in tech is going to be my guess becauseit can be very isolating.
So tell me about your tech career.
once you actually graduated and you went out into tech, tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah.
(07:46):
So, yeah, I got to a point where I would say once I switched my major to computer scienceand I started getting into those like core classes, I knew I had to move because I'm from,
I'm from Dothan, Alabama.
It's a small city.
There were not any tech jobs there.
I was looking online and I'm like, I'm like, I will not get a job here.
(08:08):
So, but I knew I didn't want to move too far.
So I moved to Birmingham and I was still at that time, still working at the bank, lookingactively looking for internships.
And I found a paid internship at a manufacturing company and it was for a softwaredeveloper.
So that was my first role in tech was a software developer.
(08:31):
And I was specifically started off doing SQL coding, just doing stuff with the database,working with Oracle.
Honestly, that was a tough place to start.
It was really...
Okay, you were talking to an ex Oracle employee and former SQL PL SQL programmer.
Believe me, I completely understand.
(08:52):
Well, but having said that though, one of the reasons that I worked at Oracle and I didthat is when in grad school, I focused on database development.
Even in undergrad, my senior project was to build a database from the ground up.
Then when I went into grad school,
and I had to pick a specialty, I specialize in database systems.
So I understood, speaking of like understanding things under the covers, I understoodthat, but going to work for Oracle again, still that's not, that is no joke right there.
(09:18):
So anything Oracle related is, it can be very tough.
all that to say, I hear you, but keep going.
you started off with SQL and Oracle.
Yeah, it was hard.
It was really hard, but I will say like, I wouldn't change it.
I'm actually really glad I started out with it because I feel like working with a databasegave me an understanding.
Because from there I was like, okay, I know this isn't what like this isn't what I wantedto do and take.
(09:41):
That was my step into that company.
So I asked if I could move to a team that was doing front end development, because I knewI wanted to get into that and I knew I liked design.
So they, I did a good job working with the SQL.
So they allowed me to move to another department, which was great.
And when I got there, I really was appreciative of the, of the understanding of workingwith a database because it just helped me really understand like,
(10:06):
Okay, like these things that I'm designing, they're not coming out of midair.
coming, they have to be coming from somewhere.
Right.
Yeah.
do those elements come from?
Right.
And it helped me like think through APIs and think through, the performance of something.
So I'm really glad that I had that introduction because I think even now, as a UXdesigner, when I design something, I think about this has to come from somewhere.
(10:32):
right.
Does it make sense?
this going to be too much?
Is it going to make the website slow?
So yeah.
So I asked to move to a team that was doing front end development and I started doing someangular coding using TypeScript.
I enjoyed that.
And then I got to the point where it's like the coding was the part that I wanted to dothe least.
(10:57):
And what I wanted to do the most was design the interface.
And so when I, once I got to that point.
I started just doing some independent learning, taking some courses online to learn aboutUX design, what tools to use, how to do it.
And I'm like, the way I knew that was for me was because I love taking those courses.
(11:18):
I love going on YouTube.
I love reading books about it.
And so it helped me really gain an understanding.
And then I was able to leave that company and get a product design job at an ad techcompany.
Yeah.
And so.
That's how I got into UX design.
So I'm curious because I have to say at some point I had considered going into UX design,but I was like, I don't want to go back to school and study.
(11:44):
it sounds like you did self study.
And when you were moving, when you were making that transition to the front end to be, tobeing a UX designer, did you find that the, that self study helped you in terms of your
resume credentials and the interview process, or was it
or were you, you know, was it still tough?
Were they still looking for a specific degree?
Like, you know, there are degrees in UX design and so you're competing against those samecandidates.
(12:06):
So how did you make yourself stand out in those interviews to get those roles?
Yeah, the way I helped myself stand out was by working on my portfolio.
I know if I didn't have a strong portfolio, I would have never gotten the role, but I hadlike some projects that I'd worked on.
Like I had worked on like this mobile app for like this traveling app.
(12:28):
from beginning to end, like it was a really thorough app and I really done a lot ofresearch working on it.
And I know that taking the time to do that really helped me get my first position becauseit's like, I had like half the experience because I had been designing the front end
websites that I've been using and I had been doing that for some years, but I didn't, likeyou said, I didn't have the formal education.
(12:50):
was more self-taught.
So having the portfolio really allowed them to see they're like, okay, like she actuallyknows how to do this.
Okay, that's awesome.
And were those projects that you were working on for yourself or for a company or both?
Yeah, those were projects I was working on for myself.
Okay, see, that's good.
That's good.
So you were basically, you were using, you were learning and then building the projectsfor yourself and then using that for your portfolio to get your next gig.
(13:17):
That's good information for our listeners who I'm...
You know, some of them are going to be students and people who are early in their careerand trying to figure out how do they make those transitions.
So I think that's really good information.
So tell me about what prompted you to found Birmingham Black Techies and tell me aboutthat journey.
Yeah.
Okay.
(13:37):
So I first started Birmingham Black Techies in November of 2019.
So it will be five years next month, is...
Wow.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
It was like, my gosh.
That's impressive.
It's going to be five years.
So I started Birmingham Black Techies really, I always say out of necessity because I wastrying to meet people who had similar interests to me and that were also black.
(14:06):
And so I started going out to some local tech events and I'll add.
this by saying like, I felt this need to connect with people because I moved toBirmingham.
I didn't know anyone there before I got there.
So it's like, I'm mostly, I'm just working a lot.
So if I'm not making friends that work, I'm not making friends.
So sad, but true.
(14:29):
And sadly, that's the case for a lot of folks in tech because we spend so many hours infront of the computer, right?
So, yeah, it was so hard.
So I went to meet up.
And so first I started searching for groups.
And I joined like some that were for like, like there was like a women's foodies group inBirmingham, which was cool.
And there were some other, but I'm like, there's nothing black and tech related.
(14:51):
so then I'm like, okay, I actually like struggled with the idea for a while.
If I should start a meetup group, if I shouldn't, and I settled on doing it, to this day,I honestly don't know what made me just decide to do it because that isn't my personality.
Like, interesting.
Yeah, like I will, I will say I will start things.
(15:14):
I will lead things, but that was completely, I feel like really out of my comfort zonebecause like I started things and led little and led groups and stuff at work, but that
was kind of different because it's like, I'm getting paid to be here and already knowthese people.
So that was not, that was not something I would usually do.
But like you said, you said you started it out of necessity.
(15:37):
You had a need to.
you needed a community of people in tech who were black, who looked like you, that had ashared experience.
And I mean, honestly, I think that's just a part of the experience of being a black womanis sometimes you're like, all right, it doesn't exist.
I guess I'm going to have to go create it.
I guess I'm just going to have to build this thing myself.
(15:57):
So kudos to you.
So how did you start it?
Yeah.
So when I meet up, started the group of
And just, I don't know, the name was easy for me.
I I was like Birmingham Black people would take Birmingham Black Techies.
And immediately after that, I went to LinkedIn and started trying to search for Blackpeople who were in Birmingham and that were in tech or maybe students.
(16:24):
So I went to LinkedIn and the way it really worked was like, let's say I found one Blackperson who was in tech.
I would try to look through their connections because I'm like,
They probably know more people here in Birmingham that are in black and in tech.
And so then I started sending out messages to people as I was sending them connectionslike, Hey, my name is Niesha.
I'm a software developer at this company.
(16:45):
I recently started this meetup group.
would love if you would could join it and tell people about it.
And so, got really, I got really good responses.
I got to say, you're like, this is, you're like, it's not my personality.
Meanwhile, you out there just like reaching out to everybody on LinkedIn that is black andin Birmingham going, okay, look, I got this group.
You need to come join it.
And then not only that, you need to tell five friends.
(17:07):
So for you to say that's not your personality, that's, that's okay.
That's impressive.
I'm sorry.
So you were, so you reach out to all these folks.
So you were basically, looking through people's connections and looking for black peoplein the Birmingham area who were in tech.
And you're, so you're sending them a message saying,
Did you have an event planned at that time or you're just saying I'm starting a group?
Just join me on meetup.
I think at that time I maybe had a vent on the schedule for that January.
(17:33):
So like it was maybe a few months, two months out.
Yeah, I think I did have that event.
So I was telling them, Hey, we'll be here in January.
and so, and then, so then from there is like trying to find a location that worked outreally smooth.
and then we had the first event was a really, really great turnout.
And, we posted the photos on LinkedIn.
(17:56):
I feel like it went like micro viral and the Birmingham tech.
Yeah.
Everybody loves a good picture though.
Right.
Whoa, didn't know that.
Like, didn't know there was that many black people interested in taking Birmingham.
So, right.
Yeah.
So when I posted that, I got like a.
(18:17):
a of messages on LinkedIn, people being like, hey, this is cool.
Some people saying like, hey, I love to learn more.
Some people just being like, thanks for putting this together.
And so from there, yeah, we had another event.
And then of course, March 2020 happened.
So at that point, it's funny because I never once thought of just ending the group.
(18:43):
interesting.
Yeah.
When I look back, I'm like, I'm surprised I wasn't just like, whoop, that was nice.
That would have been your out, you you're like, well, this isn't really my thing.
This is my exit door, you know?
And you're like, nope, we're going to, we're going to struggle through.
Yeah.
think it's cause I'm just a very like- See that's why you are, that's why I say you aredefinitely a community builder.
Cause somebody who's not a community builder would have been like, okay, well, it was, itwas a nice try.
(19:05):
We had a good run.
It's time, you know, the world is shut down.
It's time to end it.
But you're like, nope.
Got to figure out a way to keep it going.
So I love that.
Okay.
So March, 2020 happens and you're trying to figure out what's next.
So what happened?
Yeah.
So what happened next was we did like everybody else and hopped on zoom.
So we started planning.
(19:27):
So I started planning virtual events from there.
And it's so funny because like at the time I didn't realize I was planning so many virtualevents until I look back on our meetup now.
And like we were having them quite often.
some of the events were like educational, some were more social, like playing among Tellthe audience more about the type of events you were having then and then we'll, we'll, get
(19:52):
to present day, but what kind of events were you having when the whole world was shutdown?
Yeah, like one time, one of our fun events where we played like among us together.
That was so, that was nice.
That's fun.
Yeah.
I'm like, one of the ones like a learning one was I did a walkthrough of how to
build like a match game using JavaScript, I think.
(20:15):
So that was cool.
And then we also did stuff like that was more like educating people to things going on inBirmingham.
So like we had someone from a local nonprofit that was doing like some tech work talkabout, these are the opportunities we have.
So they, and we also did like virtual movie night, movie nights and had somebody hop onand talk about cryptocurrency.
(20:38):
So it kind of rotated between learning something tech related or doing something fun witheach other or learning about something in the Birmingham area, some type of opportunity.
(21:01):
That's so great.
I love that.
I love that.
Okay.
All right.
So you make it through the pandemic.
And also the other thing that happened in 2020 was George Floyd.
I would imagine that there was, did you have cultural events around, like, let me tellyou, sort of explain the question.
So the company that I was working for at the time had a really strong black community andour head of HR was a black woman.
(21:26):
And so after George Floyd and just all of the stress and tension that was happening at theend of 2020,
You had Breonna Taylor and other things.
She actually brought in a counselor to just talk to just the black folks at the company,just to talk about what's it like to show up to work in this environment and things like
that.
So I'm curious, did you do any kind of serious events like that at the end of 2020, when,you know, after George Floyd, or did that impact you at all?
(21:53):
mean, obviously, I don't want to say obviously, but I think it impacted all of that.
That was kind of a dumb question, but you know what I mean?
Like, did it impact the...
Did it impact Birmingham black techies?
Yeah.
it, impacted BBT by, it put a spotlight on us because I feel like at that time, as youknow, all the corporations were trying to figure out a way to show I'm down with DEI.
(22:16):
Like they were, they were trying so hard to show that like, Hey, we're different.
the tech companies were really trying.
So
As a result of that, I had more people reach out to me and want to collaborate, partner,do events together, which was good and bad.
It's good because it was nice that more people were learning about us and people wanted tobuild partnerships.
(22:42):
The bad thing was it was terrible for my work-life balance because I'm still workingand...
at, and BBT was like taking up a lot of my time.
So it was like, okay, I literally do not have a social life now.
and, also, and now it's gotten better, but I will say at that time, well, no, no, cause Iwas during COVID.
(23:05):
Cause I was about to say like Birmingham, because of the size of this city, I feel likeit's a place where people really expect to meet you in person and not virtually.
okay.
Okay.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
was time to see when to meet people, which I will say during that time that was still in2020.
So it was still virtual meetings.
So that helped, but still it was a lot to balance work and balance that.
(23:29):
And also it just turned it into a direction that wasn't really trying to go because mywhole idea for Birmingham Black Techies was for it to be a community for black people who
are in tech or love tech.
Any type of tech enthusiast, I always tell people, you do not have to work in tech.
You don't have to code.
(23:49):
For whatever reason, when I say Birmingham, but techies, people are like, do I have tocode?
I'm like, no.
Like, yeah, I get that.
get that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I built it with this idea of it being this community.
So now it's like, okay, now I feel like I'm becoming a DI like recruiter or something.
Like, wait, you got to explain that.
(24:11):
Why do you say that?
Yeah, because I felt like a lot of companies saw us as a source for diverse tech talent.
it is.
They're using you as a source for the people.
Okay.
And it's like, it is a source for diverse tech talent, but also it's like...
You pay your recruiters to go find talent.
Exactly.
(24:31):
You're not paying me.
So why are you trying to stress me out?
Right.
Or actually, I don't know.
Maybe you could ask them for a fee.
Like, okay, next time somebody reaches out to you and saying they're trying to use yourcommunity to build out their workforce, their DEI workforce, you need to be like, okay,
what percentage am I getting of the cut?
Exactly.
(24:52):
So it just got to a point really where I just felt like it was a lot.
I will say like over time, of course that slowed down.
We know as the DEI demand went down, the outreach went down, but I did reach a point Iwill say in, it was last year where I just was burnt out, completely burnt out and just
(25:13):
tired of doing everything by myself.
And over the years I had tried to, I had people say like they would help, but it alwayswould usually fall out, fall off or.
it would just be really inconsistent to the point where it wasn't helpful.
Cause it's kind of like, if I need help on this and I need it, like the turnaround to bewithin a week and like, don't hear from you, like, you know, it's just hard to get in
(25:37):
touch.
It becomes a thing where it's like, need, I just need to do this myself.
So I just kept running into that where it's just like, like I'm just not really able tofind the help that I need.
So I just got to a point where I was like, okay.
I'm going take a pause, collect my thoughts and think of what I want to do next.
(25:59):
so what conclusion did you come to?
Yeah.
from there, I did that for like, yeah, that was a while, like some months, I would say.
And I had a sporadic events during that time.
So it wasn't like completely cold.
Also,
you know, still maybe communicate in our Slack or Facebook group.
(26:21):
So it wasn't, I wasn't completely gone, but the events were like just very sporadic.
So I came to the conclusion that I was going to try to get a small group of advisors, somepeople that I knew personally or well, first I thought I would just pick some people that
I knew personally.
Then I had the idea of like, let me put out an open call and just see who'd be interested.
(26:44):
And then maybe I could pick.
Yeah, and I'm like, then maybe I can pick mostly people that I'm familiar with and throwin one or two that I don't know just to see what happens.
where'd you put the open call out on LinkedIn or where?
Yeah, I did it on LinkedIn, our Slack, our Facebook group and our newsletter.
OK, so it was so you were asking the community for advisors.
(27:07):
Gotcha.
OK, gotcha.
All right.
So so I ended up forming a small group of advisors in July.
and so since then, me and one of my advisors, we've, planned out some events for the restof the year.
We had an event last month in September.
We'll be doing more things for the rest of the year.
(27:29):
So it is going well, but it's a learning curve for me.
Like it not going to lie.
It's been a, a, a challenge to get used to it.
Get used to having advisors and not doing it on your own or what?
Yeah, it's been hard to get used.
saw my tele, I'm a terrible delegator.
Like, I'm really bad at that because it's like, it is not even just so much as like, Iwant control of things.
(27:55):
It's because I get this trait from my mom.
My mom is extremely thoughtful and I am the same way.
So I'm always like, like, you know, people have lied.
I don't, I always feel bad.
Yeah.
I just feel bad.
Like, know, like we all got something we have do.
(28:15):
So I feel bad about it.
I think I'm slowly figuring out.
think I'm now in the process of figuring out what I need to do and what I can hand off tosomeone else, because I will say there still are some things that I need to do, because
like if it needs to be quick or if it's like a strategy strategy thing, if it's a visionthing, like I need to be the one to do it because it's in my head and I know it.
(28:38):
But if it's like something that I can like hand off to someone else, like, hey, can youbrainstorm maybe some event ideas?
And then like we look over together, like we can, that works.
So I'm in the process now of just figuring out what I need to do and what I can hand off.
That's smart.
That's smart.
Delegation is a hard thing.
It depends on, well, it depends on your personality type.
(29:01):
But for introverts and people who are empathetic and like you say, thoughtful,
It can be a hard thing to do because like you say, you're worried.
go, well, you know what?
I don't want to bother them.
They've got their lives or they've got their family or whatever it is.
And I'll just do this thing.
But then you have to start to think about self care, right?
You have to start to think about how are you taking care of yourself?
But also there are times, you you talked about, you know, if it needs to be quick, thenyou need to do it.
(29:24):
The thing that I'm having to, I'm forcing myself to, to think about and learn.
Sometimes just because you can do it and you you can count on yourself doesn't mean youshould do it.
There have been times when there are things that I was doing and I'm like, I'm spending Xhours doing this thing, whereas I could just hire a freelancer to do this in an hour.
so, you know, like it's like, and it's like, how much of my time, how much is my timeworth it?
(29:46):
At some point you have to go, how much is my time worth?
And is it, does it make more sense to, you know, and in your case, you're talking aboutadvisors, but you have to think about, well, does, somebody else have an expertise that
can do it faster than, you know, maybe
can do it faster than you because that's their specific expertise versus you juststruggling to do it on your own or whatever.
But I completely understand that.
yeah, like I said, I think you got to think about self care and make sure you'reprotecting your time.
(30:10):
it's because you were burned out.
You don't want to get to the point where you're burned out again.
Right.
And I'm not lecturing you.
I'm just saying I'm talking to myself more than I'm talking to you.
It's like, you know, physician heal thyself.
Yeah.
So I'm curious, what's next for BBT?
Like what are your goals for the next one, three, five, 10?
(30:32):
I don't know how, you know, what, do you see next for, BBT?
Okay.
So let me see.
I want to attach a timeframe to the goals, but I have, I'm like, I have a lot of goals.
I'll just say some of them.
one, I want to have us have like an official membership because right now
(30:52):
It looks like being a BBT member is going to our meetup and joining.
So I want us to have like an official membership, official membership.
Like you fill out something, you get this, you, you paid this amount annually.
Like I want us to have an official membership.
That's one thing.
I also want us to really, get integrated in the Birmingham community more, because I feellike it is not like, everybody in tech knows us, but is
(31:22):
I feel like we're way more known in Birmingham tech ecosystem, but a person in Birminghamwho maybe doesn't work in tech or who's a student at a college probably hasn't heard of
us.
So I want to get more integrated into like the actual community of Birmingham so thatpeople who are not intake, but want to learn more about it are able to find us.
(31:45):
Cause I'm like, those are the people I think really, really could find it beneficial.
I also want to, like what else, I'm like there's something in my list.
I also want to at some point get to a level where we have interns and these interns couldbe students or not.
(32:08):
I wouldn't want to put it on like, you have to be in a college.
Cause I think there also is a need for people who are middle-aged and wanting to switchcareers.
They also need to have the opportunity to learn and do things.
So I would love to have opportunity to mentor people and have, and yeah, I would actuallymaybe say it will be more of like a mentorship than an internship type of thing.
(32:32):
That's what was going say.
What are these interns doing?
Maybe they're doing all that work you need to delegate.
I would want them to do some things that I'm doing, but also I think I would love it to bea
a thing where it's like they get to connect with other tech professionals and learn aboutwhat they're doing, how they got to where they are.
(32:53):
maybe like interns.
Yeah, like you say, maybe it's a mentorship program.
It's a BBT mentorship program.
You pair everybody up or something.
Yeah, I would love that.
Also a longer term plan.
I want BBT to get into creating media.
whether that's like YouTube videos, podcasts, or just like actually creating short stufffor social media.
(33:18):
I think that would be really, really cool.
That's definitely, that's been something I consistently have thought about.
So I know it's something that I should do, but I think it's a great opportunity for it.
And again, that's another thing kind of where the mentor thing comes in, because it'slike, if people have that, they want to learn how to do it and they want to create
content, it would be really cool if that could.
(33:38):
this could be a space for them to learn and create tech-related content.
I that idea.
I love that idea.
That's amazing.
I also, I'm like, how many goals do you want?
Because I have so many.
No, you keep going.
You tell me when you're done.
I didn't set a number, so it's on you.
You tell me.
Okay, no, it's fine.
(33:59):
My next goal is to have like a big enough membership where we can have like subgroups.
So black women in Birmingham.
people who are in the LGBTQIA plus community can meet up, maybe people who are over acertain age.
I haven't thought of what the age would be, but I think that'll be helpful too.
(34:22):
I think that would be really helpful as well as like a student group.
so my goal is that we have enough members that like, though the different groups can meetup individually.
And, and kind of like, feel free to set them up on their own.
Like just like, doesn't, I really want the community to become independent.
(34:43):
So say they're in a Slack group and I'm like, Hey, any, any ladies want to meet up at suchand such place on Friday?
Then they go do that.
if it's pride month and they're like, Hey, anybody want to come to me to this Fridayevent?
They could go do that.
Like my goal is that there are enough people that people can kind of meet up as clicks.
Maybe you have girls night, boys night.
(35:04):
non-binary night, pride night.
Again, not all in the same week.
I'm just saying, you periodically have events where they can start to create those groupsand then eventually they can start their subgroups.
But just give that opportunity for those folks to get together to start maybe.
I don't know.
I'm new to community building.
(35:25):
So you've been doing it for five years.
You've got the, I'll just say you got the old hand at it.
But there's a term for that.
I can't think of right now, but anyway, so you're better off on it than me.
I'm just throwing out some ideas for you.
Wait, you said you had two more.
So that was the subgroups.
What was the other one?
My last one is I really want us to connect with more black tech groups here in the South.
(35:49):
have, virtually, we played Among Us one night with the Black Codes, their black tech groupin Nashville.
And that was fun.
And I would love for us to like do more things with black tech groups.
because Birmingham black techies isn't the only one around here.
know there are, there's definitely groups in Atlanta and then again, the group in,Nashville, there's the guy who founded black cloud geeks is in Montgomery.
(36:16):
And I feel like there may be something in Mobile, but I need to double check, but thatwould be really cool if like we could just do more things, even if it's virtually like, so
everybody doesn't have to, if it's virtually, if we could just do more things with black.
tech groups that are in the South.
Yeah.
I saw that you were an ambassador at Render.
Was it this year, this past June that you were an ambassador at Render?
(36:39):
So did that, were you able to meet some other groups that way?
So when I was at Render, didn't, unfortunately I didn't meet like any people who are inany black tech groups that I'm aware of.
like it didn't come up in conversation, but just the feeling of being at Render wasamazing.
And I would just love if
I'm like, I would just love if we could do one huge meetup with all the meetup groups thatare like, just in the deep south.
(37:05):
I think that would be so cool.
yeah.
And by the way, I just realized sometimes, you know, get to start talking inside baseball.
For the listeners who don't know, Render ATL is a tech conference in the Atlanta area thatis focused on, on...
Is it specifically marketed as being for Black people?
I know it's mostly Black people, but is that the official marketing?
Do they say that in the marketing?
(37:27):
They don't say...
say that with words, but the tone and the programming, the people who are behind it, blackpeople.
So like, I know they don't market themselves as a black tech conference, but to me it isbecause it's like, it's not just like there are a lot of black people there, but black
(37:47):
people are planning it too.
Yeah.
I tell people it's a mini Afro tech.
again, for people who don't know, Afro tech is a big tech conference in Austin every year.
and so I just told people like, yes, it's the Atlanta version of Afro tech, but it wassmaller, much smaller.
anyway, so just wanted to clarify that for people who didn't know what we're talking aboutwhen we're talking about render.
Okay.
Well, I think those are some pretty awesome goals.
(38:09):
you know, so tell me how, mean, I, again, I'm
I'm new in the community space.
I'm trying to build, I'm trying to network, I'm trying to collaborate.
But tell me, if there's anything we could do to collaborate, I'd love to help.
If there's anything I can do to help, hey, I got you on the podcast, getting your word outthere.
So tell me how I can help.
(38:30):
first of all, want to thank you for sharing your story with our listeners.
But also, before I let you go though, you got to tell people how they can find BirminghamBlack Techies and any upcoming events that you got.
Yeah, if you want to find Birmingham Black Techies, go to Birminghamblacktechies.com.
That's the best place to find because all of our links are there.
(38:50):
Our meetup link is there.
Our socials are there.
You can subscribe to the newsletter.
So I always tell people head over to our website, Birminghamblacktechies.com and you'llfind all the links there.
Okay, now the web designer in me has got to ask the domain question.
Have you tried to get bbt.com?
Is it already taken?
(39:11):
Yeah, I couldn't get it.
I was just wondering, because I'm like, I am so terrible at spelling and I would type thatURL wrong every time.
Or probably what I would probably just do is Google Birmingham Black Techies and let itfind the URL for me.
I just had to ask.
(39:32):
I feel like that's how most people find us.
It's so funny.
It's not like...
It's not like it's pointless to have a website.
We need to have a website.
when I ask most people how they find us, it's interesting because most people are findingus from Meetup.
okay.
A lot of people are finding us from there.
And then I feel like another good amount of people see something reposted on LinkedIn.
(39:58):
So though, of course, if you go to Google and you search Black Tech in Birmingham, we'regoing to be the first thing that pops up.
But mostly profiling that's on Meetup and LinkedIn.
Enter it.
OK.
No, that's cool.
That's cool.
Well, thank you so much, Niesha, for again, thank you for sharing your story with thelisteners.
We'll talk offline about other things that we can do to collaborate any way I can help.
(40:20):
Let's wrap it up here.
I want to say to my listeners that I hope that you discovered some interesting informationabout.
If you're in the Birmingham area and you love tech, because keep in mind, she said youdon't have to code.
So if you're in the Birmingham area and you love tech, then look for, just Google or lookon LinkedIn for Birmingham Black Techies.
(40:42):
If you've got questions, well, you can send me a question and I can forward it to Niesha.
You can reach out to Imperfect Genius on social media at Ask Imperfect Genius.
You can leave us a voicemail with your questions at 404.
425-9862 or you can send us a text.
You can subscribe to our newsletter.
We'll put the URL in our newsletter in the show notes.
(41:05):
So you can subscribe to our newsletter at subscribe.imperfectgenius.com and receive a copyof our show notes.
And if you're interested in online communities specifically for black and brown women inthe tech space, you can go to community.imperfectgenius.com.
Actually, again, in my show notes, I'm offering a special for October because we're just,my listeners know this, Niesha.
(41:26):
I just started this community and they've been listening to episode after episode about metrying to build this community.
So they know it's brand new.
And so I'm trying to get some people, get it started.
And we're to have a welcome party on October, on Halloween on October 31st.
So I'm offering an October special.
So again, I don't even remember that you're all off the top of my head.
(41:47):
So it will be in the show notes.
If you want that again, subscribe.imperfectteens.com to get our newsletter.
You'll get information about that in our show notes.
And until next time, I'm Rachel Foss to remind you why your journey may not be flawless.
It can be phenomenal.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!