Spectacle to Sport: The Growth of the Combat Sport Industry with Dan LaSavage

In this episode of Inside the Wave, I had the pleasure of sitting down with my friend Dan LaSavage, the founder of Combat Corner, a company that has grown significantly since its inception in 2007. We delved into the fascinating journey of Combat Corner, from its humble beginnings in a small shop next to an Indian restaurant to its current status as a major player in the combat sports equipment industry, operating out of a 30,000 square foot facility and serving athletes worldwide.

Dan's passion for combat sports extends beyond business. Combat Corner is deeply involved in the community, providing space and support for local organizations and youth programs. Their headquarters even hosts a gym built for nonprofits, offering free training for underserved areas in Milwaukee. This dedication to giving back highlights the company's mission to elevate the entire industry and support the next generation of athletes.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in combat sports, entrepreneurship, or community building. Dan's journey and insights are truly inspiring. Check out the full episode now and let us know your thoughts! You can check out Combat Corner's website here: 🌐https://combatcorner.com/

Stay tuned for more exciting episodes!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the next episode of Inside the Wave. Today I am joined
with my friend Dan LaSavage, founder of
Combat Corner. Started in 2007, yeah? That's correct,
Out of a building that was also a, was it a Thai restaurant right

(00:21):
It was an Indian restaurant. It's still there. I stopped in there like about
I bought my first pair of Nogi shorts there probably
in 2007. Did they smell like curry? They definitely smelled like curry. Clinch
gear grappling shorts. And it was like the first pair of shorts that
were made for Nogi Jiu Jitsu. And you guys have grown
a ton since then. You started as like a little shop catering to

(00:44):
the local businesses and local athletes,
and now you're in a 30,000 square foot facility, huge
team, several different countries, and doing a
lot of different things. What made you want to get started in
Yeah, I mean, truthfully, the only reason this company even

(01:04):
exists is because I got my jaw broke. Sorry about that. I
got my jaw broke and it was weird shot. Wasn't it? It was weird. I remember
that. Yeah. So I had time off. I, I, I was early
in my professional career. I think that I had like four fights at the time. Um,
and I, it, it wasn't in a legal competition. Someone
punched me in the street and it broke my jaw. Um, and,

(01:26):
uh, so during that time off, I tried to continue to
train, but I kept losing too much weight because I wasn't taking enough calories. So
I was like doing nothing. So one day we were driving around and I've,
I've had all sorts of little businesses throughout, you know, my history. And,
uh, It was just one of those things, like we were talking about gear
and equipment within the space and how you couldn't get anything that was good. And there

(01:47):
was no, no availability whatsoever. And I
mean, it was, it was like that. It was kind of just. Almost ridiculous
how it came from nothing. There wasn't like a big plan put into place because
we were talking about it. We saw a space that was empty and in three weeks we were open.
Yeah. So to, to kind of frame what 2007 was like,
at least from my perspective as a, an athlete, I didn't own my

(02:08):
academy yet, but I started jiu-jitsu in 2007. I was a fresh white belt. Uh...
If you wanted a jiu-jitsu gi, there was a
local judo place that made judo gis, but for
jiu-jitsu. And like, that's where everyone got their gi from. My
first gi was from there too. The only other place that you could really get a
jiu-jitsu gi was like at a tournament and you go to a tournament and Gameness

(02:30):
had a booth there and you would buy a gi from that tournament.
And e-commerce wasn't big yet either. Like we didn't hit a huge
e-com boom where you could just go online and there are a million manufacturers of
equipment. If you wanted a pair of gloves, they were consumer level,
everlast ones from whatever sport Dunham's sporting

(02:50):
goods was probably around back then. So you guys recognizing
the growth in the sport was like, Oh, people
That's I mean, that's exactly the case. So like throughout that training, we were bringing
in a lot of stuff from Thailand, like we were training with Wendy and twins and in
various Thai brands, because that, in my opinion, not only then,

(03:11):
but now, you know, the Thais make some of the best equipment in the world. was
something you couldn't get here. Like there was, there was even, even online,
there was really not a lot of places to buy authentic, you know, time aid
gear here in the United States. So yeah, like most people would be, you know,
going into like, you know, we didn't have Dick's even back then. Dick's
wasn't even around here. That was, uh, it was like sports authority and

(03:32):
stuff like that. And you'd get the cheap Everlast gloves and that's what people were training in. So,
you know, knowing that there was nowhere to get the stuff that gave us
that, and then it was really setting up those relationships with the
vendors that made those products that were at a pro
level, pro-grade product, including Gameness. Gameness is now owned
by Century, so they're not good, so don't buy Gameness. But Gameness at

(03:54):
one time was one of the innovators in the U.S. space for jiu-jitsu uniforms.
Yeah, awesome. And with all the growth that you guys have
had over the years, you have fighters and essentially every single
fight league Bellator UFC, one, all
that stuff, a lot of top tier jiu-jitsu athletes. I
know you're also doing a lot of wrestling. So you have a daughter in wrestling. So

(04:15):
now you're doing singlets and wrestling warm ups and all that gear.
And you've also given a lot back to the community with tournaments and helping
local organizations, giving them space to do training and
helping with equipment and stuff like that. So you could tell that you're seriously
passionate about really helping the

(04:37):
Yeah, I mean, combat sports, this industry is my life. I mean, you know, once
I jumped into it, it consumed everything and then it still has to
this day. And there's always things that are opportunities
for more. It's not individually just about, you know, me or my brand.
Like you said, with the current gym situation we have at our
headquarters, that was purely built for the

(04:59):
nonprofits to use. Now do we use it for some other things?
Like we run some open mats, we do some seminars or things like that. But in general, it
was built for city champs and it was built for a youth wrestling club, all
of which are free. Actually, the youth wrestling club does have
a small fee now, but it is a nonprofit. But the city
champs program is 100% free and it services the

(05:20):
north side of Milwaukee, which is one of the most underserved areas in
And I think your open mats are really cool because a lot of times open mats are held on
someone else's turf. It's still an open mat
and most people in the community are really cool with each other, but I think it's
really special having this neutral
area that people can just come and grapple or kickbox or

(05:43):
I think people feel that way too, when they come in, cause you'll
see a lot of other open mats. It's going to be heavy for the gym. No home court.
Yeah. It's going to be heavy for the host gym. And then there might be a couple of people from other gyms,
but really with ours, it's, it's, it really is, uh, you know,
cornucopia for
utopia, but, uh, but in general, uh, a

(06:04):
lot of people coming from a lot of different places and it's one of the best ways to kind
of. see that what you're doing at your gym
transfers over with people that aren't people you roll with on an everyday basis
or aren't being taught that same kind of either technique basis or,
Yeah. So you briefly talked about Thailand

(06:26):
having some of the best equipment. So let's let's take a perspective on
like shitty equipment. Yeah, shitty gear shitty
apparel Whatever it might be and like the best
what do you think are? When you say something that's like really high
quality. What are you looking at? From a
what a vendor perspective because you sold a lot of other people's equipment But

(06:47):
now you make a lot of your own out of a bunch of different places
So when I talk about one country making good stuff, there's
a lot of countries that can make really good stuff. And in fact, any country
can make really good stuff. It comes down to who's running the operation, what
equipment's available, the raw materials, and then the systems that are in place.

(07:09):
So that's why major brands can leave one country and go to another country.
Not really in our space, but let's say like Nike. Nike can be like, no
longer operating in Vietnam. Now we're going to operate in Nicaragua. They can do that.
So it really doesn't come down to the country. The reason that whole tie end
when we're talking about tie boxing equipment is, you know, that's the national sport
there. So they have a true understanding of the product beyond just

(07:30):
making the product. A lot of the resources are there because of that reason.
So that makes it like, you know, an easy spot to start with,
but there's other great places making great products. And
that's the same thing with us. When we started doing our products, it
was finding out who did what best. And that's
why starting as a retailer, it was very easy to find that out. We

(07:51):
carried all the other brands. We found out their sales process, their
marketing processes, their products themselves, feedback from
customers that was unbiased. Because in general, a lot of people are going to tell
you if they know it's your product, they might be sensitive
to you, right? As opposed to like, if it's someone else's stuff, they'll tell you
straight up, they'll be like, that product's really great or that product sucks. Yeah. So

(08:12):
we learned a lot from that. We took all the best pieces of each thing, sales process,
marketing, product, you know, creation. And then we started
that way, right? And that's why I think earlier before on camera, I was talking about
that imitator phase. I think most people in
product design, branding, whatever, start as
imitators. Same with music. They start imitating, and then eventually they start

(08:33):
innovating. And then eventually it becomes their own. We've been in business
18 years now, so pretty much everything is our own. And those
phases of imitation we see heavily based on our stuff now.
So I don't get too mad about it. We just keep moving. So our
stuff is ever-evolving and ever-changing. So usually by the time our
stuff is kind of duplicated or copied, we're

(08:55):
Where do you typically see other brands and other manufacturers falling
short of having great products? Is it material? Is
it quality of how it's put together? Is it
I mean, it could be all of those things. It really can. And depending
on the brand, I could probably point out each one that they're failing at. And

(09:16):
I'm sure other brands could point out ones we're failing at. But
in general, when it comes to the product itself, a
lot of it's going to be related to cost. A lot of it's going to be related to
a company's, I'd say, tenure. How long have they been around? If they've been
around a long time, which we have too, but we don't rest on that. A
lot of companies, they make something and that's it. They

(09:36):
rest on that. They'll make that same product for like 15 years, never improving
it. we treat our products kind of like software without
calling them point O's and stuff like that. So if you got this
product and then let's say 09 and
we're still making that same product now, it's going to be
different. It's just been updated throughout time. It doesn't have

(09:57):
a model year. I mean, it's kind of like Tesla, right? They just keep updating it. And
that's the approach we've always had. And when we started small, it was very easy because
we didn't have crazy production runs where we got stuck with a bunch of garbage.
If we had a small run and something was wrong, We might, you know,
throw it away, liquidate it, whatever, and then fix it onto that
Yeah. I remember that, you know, even as a, as a gym owner, and I'm

(10:18):
sure a lot of gym owners have this as well, but we'll go off on our own
and do something like direct with another country. Right. And you
get something in and you're like, this isn't what I expected. Right.
The colors are off or the cuts are a little weird, but like, you
Yeah, not even the poll with the vendor, but a lot of people don't understand there's much
more in the process than designing something in Photoshop or in CorelDRAW or

(10:41):
something like that and sending it over and getting exactly what you wanted back. You
may get lucky. We've had customers that get lucky and then all of a sudden they get burned and then they
come back. The thing is, yes, we have a lot of control. We have a lot of pull. But
also we have things in place, systems in place, specifically when
it comes to quality control overseas. We're not just letting
them ship what they want to ship and just having to accept what arrives. It's

(11:03):
And I know working with you, you guys have
done rash guards for me. You get the rash guards and the colors will be off.
you know, some sort of little flaw and you're like, Hey, Perry, we got the order in, we
got to get this redone for you. But it's so cool that you guys
can do that, right? A lot of times if you're a gym working directly with
a vendor, you know, a supplier overseas, you can't just

(11:27):
But with you guys, they'll just stop responding, things like that. The
relationships we have in place, like I go overseas. I
learned early, like initially, I just treated everything like it
was a business transaction. Then I realized that these are other people.
These are other families. These are other businesses that have to be sustainable as
well. So when you deal with the right ones, you can set up long-term relationships

(11:49):
that are built on trust and built on value. So
when we manufacture these products over there, not only are we inspecting them over
there, but there could be an error. So we do a second inspection in-house. And
as you know, we're making more and more stuff in the U.S. as well, but there's
still a big majority of our products that are done overseas. And
the big thing is having that relationship with our

(12:11):
vendors so they understand our expectations. And primarily,
they never really ship us stuff that is out of whack, but it happens. And
when we do, we cover it, even if it's something that maybe wasn't
the factory's mistake. Let's say we sent them the wrong Pantone or something like that, and that's
why the color was off. We're going to cover that out of our pocket. We're not going to deliver
that. Um, there could be a scenario where, um, you

(12:32):
know, maybe there wasn't, you know, a Pantone chosen, and
then it might be slightly different than what a customer expected. We're still going to
try to solve it. But the biggest thing is our early
systems where we're like, we're not really doing that art and submitting orders unless
Yeah. Makes sense. All right. So super side
story. Uh, quite often when I go to combat corner, I just walk

(13:01):
I'm the customer and I'm right. So I just walk in. Granted, if you're not on
a phone call. But you had a little metal circle thing on
your desk. I was like, Dan, what is that weird metal thing you have on your desk? And you were telling
me it was a fabric cutter. Can you explain what that little
It's known as a GSM cutter. It's the same thing. Or it could be ounce
weight cutter. Basically, it cuts out a circle that's the

(13:23):
same volume area, or not volume area, surface area
of 100 square centimeters. And basically,
you can weigh that material and that tells you the fabric's GSM or ounce weight.
And that's how we can dictate if we're getting the materials at the weights we actually
require by our vendors, but also for testing. So

(13:44):
let's say I'm doing vinyl heavy bags and I want to make sure I have 22 ounce
heavy bags. I'm gonna be able to cut or take a swatch out of that and measure that.
What was delivered to me from my vendor actually matches what they say.
Yeah. A lot of people, and I see this in
our space a lot, because like I said, I'm friends with quite a few of my competitors,
but we're friends, where I'll see things and

(14:05):
I'll notice where they're just taking the word of the factory for
these things. Yeah. There was a company that was selling hemp
geese, but you could take a lighter to it and they melted. It sure wasn't hemp. Guess what? Hemp
doesn't melt. That's polyester. 1% hemp. Yeah. So that's polyester.
So this is something that's not uncommon, especially with a
lot of US-based brands that jump on the idea of

(14:26):
like, I can do really good marketing, I can do really good sales,
and I can do really good you know, embellishing, but
they don't understand the core of the products that they're doing it on. That's
something that's different with us, and you know that by coming to our space. I mean, we have full
in-house sewing division, full in-house screen printing, dye
sublimation. We can actually make products from scratch, and

(14:46):
that's why when I was saying earlier is I'm a product cobbler. So
I'll draw products up first. I'll do technical drawings, but
I also like to take things and assemble them in a cobbler type
I did. I actually worked developing a sewing class with MATC. They

(15:06):
only ran it one semester, but it was an industrial sewing class because
MATC is a technical college where they should be sending kids or
adults there to actually learn something for trade, but instead they
only have sewing classes for like old ladies. They're literally hobbyist sewing
classes. And we were the first ones to kind of try to re-implement an
industrial sewing class, which they did for, I think one

(15:29):
Yeah. What do you think is the biggest challenge
I don't have a lot of problems with manufacturing, so I'm not
really gonna be able to touch on that, but for what a lot of people have issues with, it'd be actual
shipping importation, delays right now, like right now
the Suez Canal is closed off, the Red Sea's being attacked and things

(15:52):
like that, that creates you know, ships that have to go around Cape Horn or
this or that, congestion at the ports. I'd say that's the hardest part of not
manufacturing, but actually getting manufactured products from overseas into
your facility. As far as in-house manufacturing, the hardest part
in the U.S. is finding good talent that actually wants to do
that type of job. Manufacturing is

(16:14):
a different type of job that most Americans aren't really
willing to do anymore. I mean, we're from Milwaukee, we're from the Rust Belt. This
was built on people doing manufacturing jobs, but not
a lot of people really want to do it. If you look at my sewing division, you'll see they're mostly
Yeah, lost art. And they have that from probably from previous generations

(16:35):
There used to be a shop. One of the first people I worked with that
used to do our patch sewing for us because we didn't know how to do it. This is probably like
13 years ago was over in this area. They had it was a monstrous
building. They had equipment all over the place. By the time we
were working with them, they just use this little corner. There was like three people there.
But he said that at one time there was over 300 people working in this place. So

(16:58):
What is the, um, you know, customers every day are facing the challenge of
like, do I purchase from Amazon where I just buy
everything? Do I go to a specialty manufacturer like
combat corner? Do I go to a startup
brand that some jiu-jitsu guy created? Uh, why

(17:24):
Authenticity, we've been around in the space for a very long
time. Our stuff is proven and we have the ability to kind
of consult anyone to find out what they really need for their purpose. So,
you know, you go on Amazon, it's very difficult to tell what's real, what's not, especially
with the review basis, because almost everyone bases things on reviews. When I go on
Amazon, I actually go to the reviews and I'll just look for the negative reviews and see if they

(17:45):
make sense. But really, Amazon, there's
some good stuff on there. We do sell like our middle tier line on Amazon. I
hate Amazon, by the way. Don't buy my stuff on Amazon. Buy it on our website. But
the difference between an upstart is you never know really
what you're going to get. And most of those upstarts are in that imitator phase. Even
if they act like they got the coolest thing ever, most likely they're

(18:08):
copying someone else's stuff. And when you have a copy of a copy, it's never as
good as the original. Um, so usually you want someone who's a little
further established, um, and buying directly from the source is
Yeah. And I've noticed one thing that you guys do. Awesome. That not a lot of companies do.
Um, you know, when you're searching out there for a gear, you're going to find companies that
are like either really high end and expensive. You

(18:31):
know, we're talking, I'll, I'll use my jiu-jitsu space, but we're talking like the $200 key
price range. And then you find the companies that are like $60 key
price range, but that's all they do. They either cater to the ultra.
cheap and we're going to say cheap because it is a cheap product beginner or
they're catering to the high end hype train
sort of buying stuff. But comic corner, you guys work

(18:54):
a little bit differently in the sense that like you have catered, you
have different lines for different levels of athletes. And
just like you were saying, you don't necessarily get on that hype train, right? A
lot of the products that you have, you, they're not short runs. You've
had some of the same products for years because they're
proven and they don't get relaunched. They just kind of get tweaked and

(19:15):
better every time. What made you decide to go that
route of catering to all athletes and the more
Well, truthfully, there is a need at all levels. Our big thing
has always been to have at minimum three tiers. And of
those three tiers is to make the best item in each tier. So

(19:37):
even though, let's say we have an entry level glove, like let's say our C2 boxing glove,
that is an amazing selling boxing glove for us. And it's actually a really
good glove for the price point it's at. Then you have our middle
tier. So you're going to say like our S class or our tie box or proper tie
glove all the way into like HMIT or cream now that we've just released.
We have them because there's different demands from different people at different levels. But

(19:59):
no matter what, we're trying to make the best product in that point, that
price point. And the other reason we do that is because we deal on a B2B level.
So we're selling to gyms and schools. They're going to have new students that
need trial gloves. They're going to have new students that need something that's not so
serious or maybe on a lower budget. than people that are
moving up in that ladder all the way up to pro. And then same thing goes for different

(20:19):
areas of the country. Some people in this
state might not be able to afford is what people in this state can afford. So
that's why we kind of did that. And the reason that really hit
and did well for us, because when we started, we kind of pushed
our product as a house brand. So a house brand is always gonna be a little
cheaper, right? You go to Walgreens and you buy you know, an

(20:41):
Advil or whatever, they're, you know, just ibuprofen versus Advil. Great, great
value. Is that whatever it is? But, you know, truthfully, you
look at the core of it, it's the same product. In fact, most of them are made by the same
company, actually. And in this scenario, as
we started going from that early phase of imitation and,
you know, minimal

(21:04):
adjustments to copies all the way into that
innovation slash creation stage where we were
creating truly unique stuff that had kind of addressed all the pain points
of those products initially. Then we were able to go into these
middle and higher tier price points that fit people's needs
that were willing to pay those amounts because we were using, say, higher

(21:24):
end materials or more expensive labor or
higher end finish pieces, let's say
like on a product where you have certain packaging or a product where you have
certain trim labels and things like that, that kind
And I don't want to leave out the fact that you guys will take almost

(21:49):
Yeah, we protect a few items, but almost
everything we have available in our whole catalog, we'll do custom. We
do most of it in a scenario where it is co-branded. So
we'll have, you know, let's say this promotion or this gym or
this space. The cool thing is that we've always
really cherished our small gyms because when we were starting, that's who bought

(22:10):
from us. So we've never taken away the fact that we
give our small gyms the same price as we give our large gyms in
our wholesale program and all that stuff. And the ability for
them to do custom, we love that, but we also help
guide them into the correct products to waste their money on. And I
Gym owners aren't, we are not product designers. We're

(22:33):
not branding experts. We're not, anything when
it comes to equipment versus like besides the fact that I
Well I always I always talk with these new gym owners
who are like I want custom everything and then I talk to them and I'm like
what are you what is your purpose for having custom everything? Well,
I want people to see my logo and, you know, know the gym. And

(22:55):
I'm like, so those eight items you just mentioned out of the nine will
never leave your gym. So the only people that are going to see them are your already existing
members. So where do you think we should spend your money? Your
budget? Some t-shirts and sweatshirts. Yeah, products that are going to leave your gym. You
know, t-shirts, hats, you know, bags, things like
that, that people are going to see someone wearing in public and ask some

(23:15):
questions about it. And they can be your, you know, your walking billboard.
Yeah. What kind of safety standards do you guys
have? I know most of your products that you've had, you've had some iteration
for a very long time. So when you reiterate a glove, maybe
it doesn't have to go through full blown, Dan
putting it on and hitting a bag 500 times, making sure his hand doesn't hurt. But

(23:36):
what kind of testing do you guys go through from a, not just a quality standpoint,
but from a safety standpoint? So when you buy a glove, you
can ensure that it's going to be good on someone's hands.
Well, you're exactly right where most of our new stuff is,
you know, renditions or has pieces from preexisting
stuff, which allows us to kind of speed up that process. But

(23:59):
any true, like, reiteration, like where
we actually redesign elements and things like that, we always test. So we
always bring in, we always sample, we're always putting it on specific athletes.
Like you said, we have a pretty big team of both our pro team, which
has about, I'd say, 30 plus current,
you know, world level athletes. And then we have our ambassador team,

(24:19):
which has about 1200 members that are part of our ambassador program. where
we'll get these products out to them and they'll try them out and test them. We'll
give feedback and stuff like that. But even prior to that is, yes, every
product that's created in my brand goes through my hands first. I've
had experience over however many years where I have a true understanding
of fit, feel materials and and

(24:42):
truthfully, like if something is going to be dangerous or not when it comes to the way something
fits or the materials used. That's
just something that I think, you know, Can't really
Yeah. All right. Let's pivot away from, uh, manufacturing. Let's
look at your perspective on combat sports in general.

(25:04):
And we're going to go through like, we'll lump wrestling in
not professional wrestling. We're a lot like collegiate high school wrestling, Olympic wrestling.
If you want to throw in some macho man, WWE, we can, uh,
jiu-jitsu, the WWF brother. Yeah. Grappling UFC,
all those things. How have you
seen the overall industry evolve since

(25:29):
Spectacle to sport. That's what I call a spectacle to sport because
I'm going to base it all around MMA because MMA is
the granddaddy. It's the most important. It makes money. I
love all other aspects, like I love Muay Thai, I love Jiu Jitsu, I love wrestling,
I love all these sports that surround it, but really MMA
is the top. It's where everything is

(25:53):
eventually going to go if they want to be at that real top, right?
And people may get upset about that because that
purist of jiu-jitsu or that purist of, say, Thai boxing or whatever
else there is, the elite of that is really awesome. And I have
supreme respect for that. And in fact, I love the individual disciplines by
themselves. But the ones bringing in the money, the ones bringing

(26:15):
in, you know, you know, these big, you know, eyeballs that
are coming from, you know, people that aren't part of our sport is
that. So when I say spectacle to sport, I
would say up until about 06-ish, it was a spectacle. And
07 on, it slowly started migrating. And then probably around 2010-11
is when it fully went to sport mode. And obviously,

(26:38):
it's entertainment sport at this point still, because
it is purse-driven and matchmaking-driven, as opposed to league-driven. But
you have kids that are being, you know, raised in
the discipline of MMA now, you know, that's not what was the case
when we were coming up through the sport. It was like, you did this, you did this,

(27:01):
I think like two, three,
All of them. Um, you know, I don't think there was anyone that
just came up, like, I'm not going to say that there's some people that,

(27:23):
uh, not because they had good money, just cause they didn't do shit. Um,
weren't working, but like in general, there wasn't enough money in
it. Unless you were an elite level guy in a major promotion,
making major money to be able to live your life with, with just that,
like, Most of them, if they were really into the sport, they were probably teaching or
probably running a gym. Yeah. If they were outside through fighting. Yeah.

(27:45):
If there were a fighter, a lot of the fighters had, had normal jobs. Like
I worked as before I started combat corner, I worked as auto mechanic. That's what
I did while I was fighting. I mean, back then in that level
What do you think that percentage is today? You know, if you took the top 50 professional

(28:06):
If you're talking top 50 across all sports, they shouldn't be working, but like
working normal jobs. If you're talking top 50 spread across all the
combat sports, they shouldn't be. But if you're talking about, let's
say even top 15 in the UFC, I think some of those guys
You know what I mean? And not working jobs because they want multiple
No, because they need money. They need the money. I mean, if you're getting paid, the pay

(28:30):
has gone up quite a bit for some of those guys, but still, let's say it's 30 grand
or something like that for a fight, and you're gonna fight twice a year, by
the time you have your manager fees and taxes
and everything else, it's not enough money, so they definitely work other jobs. And people
will be like, well, what about sponsors and this and that? Those guys that are at

(28:50):
What do you think, so by the time this episode airs, the event's already gonna
have happened, but the Craig Jones Invitational, Touting itself as
that the highest paying pot like purse in
a jiu-jitsu event grappling event ever. What do you
think something like that's going to do for the sport? Do you think it's actually going to drive the
Yeah, I think it's great. I think it's smart. I think it's the way he does
things is hilarious to me, but also cringe. Like it makes

(29:12):
you take it less serious because of that. But I love the Hillman
Gabby stuff. It's hilarious to me. But in
general, all it's going to do is it's going to push ADCC and these other organizations
to put out more money. They have to. I mean, the fact that they're blaming
the fact that their venue that they booked is expensive, even though it's like sold
out, like they booked T-Mobile and sold it out, right? Yeah. Is that correct? If

(29:34):
you booked T-Mobile, sold it out, you have a huge gate. They have licensing deals
with Flow. They have international licensing deals and they have money
that we know where the money's coming from to begin with. Those guys should be
Yeah. I feel like it goes back to the conversation that
you and I were talking about. I can't remember if it was before we were on camera or not about how
healthy competition, especially when it's close by, just

(30:00):
Yeah, competition is a necessity. When you
have one organization or one employer,
like look at most towns in our area in
general, like the Rust Belt, where they had a city or a town
that was completely ran by one employer. You
know how bad that is when they fail? You know how bad that is when they

(30:21):
control everything because basically you can't do anything about it? So
having multiple organizations in
combat sports competing in the same space is what's going to drive, not
just athlete pay, but drive for better cards, better
Yeah. Cool. Well, let's talk about wrestling. You're a wrestling daddy.

(30:44):
So how old's your daughter who's wrestling now? She's 11. Awesome. And
you're traveling like all over. What team is she on? And what kind of
We jump on different travel teams and stuff like that. But the
one that we travel with a lot is called Badger Girls Elite, which is a Wisconsin, you
know, initially assembled team. But we do have girls from out of
state wrestling. Nice. How many people are on that traveling team? It

(31:07):
depends on the duel. Like when we go, this is all based around a
duel. So most of these girls don't practice together. Some of them are from the
same team, so they practice together. It's like an all-star team. Yeah, they're all-star teams. So
it's not really, you know, anything that I'm in control
of. I'm more of an assembler at this point, where we
find people that are at a certain level to wrestle together so they

(31:27):
compete against the other best people in the country. And
a lot of them have built really strong relationships and bonds, and it's pretty cool. And
then in the past, we've held little camps and stuff so they can train together like
as a team. But I would say most of the duels when
they're K through 12. So that's the thing in boys wrestling. They'll have like 8U,
10U, 12U. And they'll have teams for all those age groups. There's so many

(31:50):
more. Because girls wrestling is smaller, even though it's growing, it's
still K through 12. So you'll have a girl that's five, six years old on
And it's been growing super fast recently, right? I
They say it's the fastest growing sport in the country for the last probably four
or five years. And, and it, I mean, it is, it's monstrous. I
can see its growth, um, you know, from pre COVID to

(32:13):
then COVID and then this explosion thereafter. Um, I
know they say, I believe the USA numbers or high school wrestling
had, had jumped up like almost, you know,
50% from, or a hundred percent actually from like 27,000 to like 54,000 or
So what do you think is driving that? both wrestling as well as
I think opportunities first visibility. And then, um,

(32:37):
you know, similar to why jiu-jitsu, uh, is, does very well
with females. Um, it's something that they can do
and they can compete in that wasn't offered really before. Uh,
but they're good at it. You know, it's not one of those things where really, uh,
a male or a female is good or bad. Like, obviously there's differences between male
and female and wrestling is specifically in like, you know, let's

(32:58):
say strength or size or this or that, but, uh, Technically,
I mean, I see it in my kids' jiu-jitsu classes. The girls are
As far as your students, they're the easiest people to work with. They're definitely easier
to work with when they're those age groups of like, let's say, seven to like 12 years

(33:19):
old. Just wait till they're a teenager. See what happens. You
know, speaking of like women's wrestling is obviously the Olympics that
just took place. The women's team did pretty well. And like
Amita Lohr, she won gold. She's 20 years
old. She's won world, you know, the world championships a few times.
And she's also a jiu-jitsu purple belt. I expect at

(33:41):
some point, most likely because she's so young. She'll probably stick with
wrestling for a while, but I could see her, you know, jumping in and
doing some grappling stuff and then eventually fighting and I
Do you see a lot of the girls either coming from Jiu
Jitsu or also training Jiu Jitsu in the future? Do you think most female

(34:03):
So we started in Jiu Jitsu. So I would say yes,
but like on the coasts, like when I go to California or anywhere in
that area, almost everyone started in Jiu Jitsu or
their Jiu Jitsu clubs that have a wrestling program and their
kids are still really bad-ass wrestlers. And wrestling for girls
in California is one of the first States that ever sanctioned. So they've been

(34:24):
sanctioned for like 20 years. Like Wisconsin just sanctioned them maybe like three years
ago. Yeah, so and then same thing on the east
coast, a lot of jiu jitsu. I still think in the Midwest, there is
So do you remember Josh Resnick? Yeah, he was out in California, coaching
all girls state champion team at some point in time, too. And

(34:46):
I remember he told me that he was coaching an all girls team. And this was probably
a decade ago and I was like, there's an all girls team and
an all girls state in California for wrestling. I was like, that's amazing. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's grown drastically even with this implementation of
like the girls state series and all that stuff. And

(35:07):
I think it will continue to grow. And I think it's great for
not only the sport, but it gives opportunity. And I think that's that's
potentially why it's growing as well too, is because there's a
lot of opportunity. So when I say that, I mean there's a lot of D3
and D2 schools, but also now more D1 schools that are entering in
the college scene that offer a

(35:28):
sport that either kids want to continue to compete in as they
Yeah. So I want to get your perspective on this. One of my previous episodes I
had Steve and his daughter, Audrey, both jiu-jitsu students of mine,
but Audrey got into, she started jiu-jitsu when she was six
or seven with me and she got into wrestling in high school. Now she wrestles for Grafton.

(35:49):
Um, so kind of similar path, but
your daughter did the wrestling way younger. Uh, but you're
both, you know, combat sports people. They were both combat sports people. Do
you think, it's different, you being
a combat sports dad, not just like a
fan, but like you can actively do

(36:10):
it. You know, I know you get on the mat sometimes. Do you think it's different
than like a lot of other relationships that parents
have with their kids where the parent doesn't really do anything, they just put their kid into
You know, I hate parents. So, I mean, we've talked about this. We ran jiu-jitsu tournaments
together and really in the youth portion of it, the hardest people to
deal with are the parents. I definitely feel

(36:32):
that having experience and actually having done something
makes you a little bit better to deal with. That's not always
the case. So I still deal with people that are crazy that, you know, come from the space,
you know, and I'm not perfect either. Yeah. But I just, I
think it's something that at least you understand it, especially when you have
and demand things of your child. Like, so let's say I

(36:54):
want to push my kid into this because I want to live through them and they
don't really want to do it. You know, how do you get a
child who doesn't want to do something to like or eventually love it? Like,
you have to nurture that. And if you can't nurture it and you just try to force it
on them, it's going to fail. And most likely they're going to hate you for it anyways.
So, um, I definitely think there's value in understanding

(37:15):
it. So I think, you know, if, if you have not competed or
trained in anything and you want your child to do it, at
least research the hell out of it first. So you don't come in being a crazy person
with your opinions and ideas, but they
have no bearing, you know, it's like a lot of times when we were running those earlier
tournaments, a lot of people had never experienced competing before. So

(37:35):
they would complain and then they would go somewhere else and they would come back and they'd
be like, Oh my God, you guys are so good. Well, yeah, because you have
no bearing. I hate people. People are like, everyone deserves
to have an opinion. And everyone does, I guess. But if your opinion is baseless, if
you have nothing to compare it to, your opinion is
But I also think you do something unique that a lot of other parents don't do. You

(37:57):
actually will go on the mat with your daughter. You'll lift weights
with her. How do you think that impacts her
development as an athlete versus, you know, a parent that's more, you
know, on the sidelines cheering along, you know, we're like, we were you're
I think it can be two ways. Um, I definitely, like I take my daughter
to train with coaches. Like I don't coach her directly. Like I, I

(38:19):
work with her, no doubt. Yeah. But like, I think that's that good separation.
I think some people who are in my position where they've competed or
think they have great expertise. Vicariously live through their kid. Well, and they're just
like on everything and they're the one that's, and I think that can
be overbearing too. So I think there's a good balance. And that's
why I believe, you know, the same way I hire for

(38:40):
my, at my business is there's people that are better at what they do than me. That's
why I hire them. Right. The idea is like, I can do this, but you
can do it better. I'm going to pay you to do it. Yeah. That's the same thing with coaching. It's
like, I believe you're a better coach at this than I am. I'm
going to drop my child off and you're going to coach them. Yeah. Right. So
does that mean that I just abandoned them at that point? No. So it's like, that

(39:01):
I think is a good balance. I think there's, there's two
sides to that though, where people who have no experience are trying to be too involved.
So you have that mom on the edge of the mat. yelling squeeze. Or
you have that dad who's shaking his kid after the match
So the squeeze thing. A lot of people aren't going to understand that,
but if you've ever been to a youth wrestling or youth

(39:24):
jiu-jitsu, you know what the mom yelling squeeze exactly sounds
like in your head. I've never yelled squeeze to anyone ever.
What if they need to squeeze though? I hate that. I hate that. But
yeah, youth wrestling, there's a lot of that going on. And that's
why most people will be like, you try to avoid the K through two mats
and three through fifth or whatever. But if your kid's

(39:47):
wrestling young enough, you're going to be part of that. That's okay.
It is what it is. Those people, if they stick with it or the kids stick with
it, eventually they'll, they'll grow out of that phase. But, um,
How do you balance it all? I procrastinate on

(40:07):
The business, I mean, and not just like a business, a
I'm lying about the procrastination. I choose to procrastinate on the things
that can be procrastinated on. So like, I'm a list builder.
So everything that I do, in fact, yesterday, I felt like I
was too all over the place. I had to spend the whole day. Like I told you,
my office gets cleaned once a month. I'd clean my office and then I had to go over

(40:30):
my list. I had to refine it. see what I could delegate out, and
then finally end up with a small list that I felt like I could handle because
I felt overwhelmed. I definitely have a
mind that can get distracted on, you know, shiny objects and things like that. So
unless I have that list down to a small enough size, I almost never
get stuff done. So the big thing is focusing on

(40:51):
the stuff that matters and A lot of stuff that I have ideas on
can jam up my list that I'm never going to do. So I need to get rid of them
You are an idea guy, that's for sure. But you don't
get to where you are without also being a person that
I've always been able to do that. I've slowly tried to stop thinking that way

(41:14):
because I always think in idea and in execution. And
now that I have more people in my business that can handle some
of the execution for me, they have to figure that
Figure it out. It's an honor to give responsibility to other people. Like it's
doing them a favor and helps them grow too. All

(41:34):
right, let's get into, I have another
one. So you, Dan LeSavage,
and Combat Corner, we'll separate it a little bit because they are two
independent things. You both invest a lot into
youth combat sports, whether it's equipment manufacturing, the

(41:55):
charitable donations that you have working out at your gym, you
helping coach and organize tournaments and stuff
like that. What drives you to work
with youth and youth programs to
further the sport? Like, why? What's your why? Because it could be a very easy answer.
I mean, I'm just going to make it quick. The youth is the future, right? The children are

(42:17):
our future. So that's a fact. Without
having these kids participate in this
sport, it's not going to continue to grow. But also setting them
up for success through the sport based on, you know, analytical
data, I'm not looking at numbers that way, but what's in my mind of how we can
better improve, you know, not only their experience, their

(42:38):
parents' experience, but everyone through that process, but just making better people
through it. I 100% believe that the kids that participate
in combat sports have built some
form of grit, have built some form of, you know, learning
how to deal with adversity, learning how to lose. You know,
some of them are very bad at it, But eventually, you know,

(43:01):
if they stick around long enough, they'll learn to deal with it. And especially if their coaching is
correct. So that's probably the most important thing is good coaching and
good mentorship. Um, and that goes beyond kids. We know this
from, you know, being adults, like, you know, having business coaches,
having, you know, people that you can speak to that are on the same level,
What do you look for in a coach, whether it's for you and your business or you as

(43:22):
a athlete or for your daughter, what are some key characteristics or
I, you know, athletic coaches and, and
business coaches, in my opinion, are very similar. And, and there's
two ways to look at it, though. You can either find a coach that is
identical to you and has been successful, and they only know how to teach their

(43:45):
way. That may work. Yeah. Or you can teach, find a coach that
also has the ability to recognize what is the
strengths and weaknesses in you. and help you develop your
style that will actually work well for you in any sort of
situation. And I think both of those can work. So
I'm not going to say one's terrible and one's good, but anything that's

(44:05):
in between there, like if they have, let's say it's someone has their style and they only
teach their style and it doesn't align with you, then that's not your coach. Okay.
And that's not just athletics, it's with business. So, you know,
obviously I lean to the side where someone who is capable of teaching
multiple styles and multiple types of people, but then you might fall
into that jack-of-all-trades scenario. So if you

(44:27):
are trying to be the elite of the elite, especially in combat sports, I
do think finding someone who has been proven
to work with similar styles to yours or similar attributes
to yours, like someone who's really good at teaching long
rangy fighters to stay outside and this and that versus someone who's able
to teach midgets. I can't say midgets, but midgets that,

(44:49):
you know, like short people, short people that, uh,
that, you know, have. You cut
that out. It's fine. But, uh, you
get what I'm saying? So like different attributes lead to different, you
know, skill sets or different game plans and things like that are different strategies.
So having a coach that understands those things, um,

(45:10):
or aligns with those things is, is important, especially at the more
What about cushions coaches that, uh, push their own skills? Like,
you know, some coaches just teach what they already know, but they're not
And that's, that's what I was getting at is, is if it perfectly aligns with
you and where you're going, that could be good, or it could be good for coaching

(45:30):
as part of your journey, but not the whole thing. Right. So
some people, as they get to a certain level, they may outgrow a coach and
then go to another coach and learn more and then outgrow a coach and
go to another coach. And a lot of people would say that's terrible, especially
in martial arts. You know, that's, that's your, uh, your trader. Okay.
They have a different set of tools they can teach you. Right. Here's one of my hot takes. Um,

(45:54):
Man, I and I see this so much in the jiu jitsu industry. And we're really
trying to do something different at my academy with this. But a lot of coaches when
they think that they're becoming a better coach, they're focusing only on
developing more physical skills
in their discipline. Like, if I'm a wrestling coach and I'm becoming a
better coach, it's because I'm learning more takedowns. It's

(46:14):
not that I'm learning how to be a better communicator, how to
relay knowledge better, learning how to work
with different types of learning techniques, like
styles differently, and so on. How important do you think it is
for coaches not to just work on further developing skill
set, but further developing, like, raw coaching no

(46:38):
So if we're talking about like mindset, if we're talking about
understanding the scenarios and understanding the circumstance and
understanding a lot more than just, yes, put your hand here, do this, lift
here. And then, or just the idea of pure volume
of amount of moves someone can know. We know
that the most elite people in most spaces have a limited amount of moves that

(46:59):
they use. You know, like I'm elite at doing these
three things and no one can stop it. How do you get there, right? Now
it goes beyond that. It's like when you face adversity, like how
are you able to deal with it? When you have something that is
as simple as like you're walking out to compete and you trip and it kind of
makes you feel embarrassed. How do you get your head back in

(47:20):
the game, right? It's weird how little shit like that can affect people,
but it can. So a good coach leading into
those scenarios can help you be ready for that. But even in those
scenarios can help you. A lot of times in the fight game, you'll see when we
have rounds, in between those rounds, you're
not teaching stuff. You know what I mean? Same thing in the locker room. I always laugh

(47:41):
when coaches are teaching stuff in the locker room. Like, why are you teaching something new in
the locker room? You know, if you've got a small adjustment or critique
or something like, okay, but in general, you're there to be supportive, get
them warmed up, get them ready, build their confidence. So when they go out there, they're ready to
compete with the best they can with what they have, because you're not teaching them
anything in the locker room. But I

(48:04):
I think there's a set of skills that are just coaching
skills. And no matter what you're coaching, you can develop those coaching skills.
Whether I'm coaching football, or I'm coaching a business, or
I'm just mentoring a person through something, or I'm coaching an
individual in jiu-jitsu. I think there's this
concept of just learning tactics to

(48:26):
be a good coach. That might be
something like classroom management, how
to talk so people will listen to you, how to talk so people feel inspired
and influenced to do what you're saying to do. Do
you see coaches working on that? Or do you see most coaches out there are ones that

(48:49):
Well, I, I do think a lot of coaches naturally have
that. And you'll see a lot of athletes who are terrible coaches. Cause they
don't, there are some coaches or athletes that come in
or non coaches that come in that struggle and get better because
they understand that's their deficiency. Um, and they
grow from it by, by, by learning either through mentorship or

(49:10):
just trials. Uh, but, uh, a lot of
times, you know, I do think that people are either
good or bad at it. they either have that built in them or not. And
it could be, and when I say built in them or not, I don't mean they're born with it. I mean, we're
talking about coaches. Most coaches are adults, right? Whatever
they've been through in their life, maybe the way they were raised, maybe the way

(49:30):
they were coached, maybe the way that they you know, were
taught in school, the way they learned themselves or
the way they struggled or the way they excelled, all
leads to how their abilities are to coach as opposed to
like, you know, like I said, that talent aspect. I don't think anyone's just
like born able to do that. Do I think like heredity or

(49:52):
like, you know, any of that stuff could come into that? Maybe. But
when you ask, like, do those people have it or they don't? I
think more times than not, they do.
I think a lot of them have that ability to
understand in a team setting,

(50:12):
get the troops together, and really believe in
what their vision is for the team or
the individual athlete within those teams. So yeah, I
think so. How many employees do you have, team members? We
When you were getting started, do you think at

(50:33):
any point in time before you got started, do you think you naturally had
that leadership skill to be able to lead that many people? Or
Leadership truly is something I still struggle with, because I
just like to do and go. I lead
the way because I'm a front runner. I move first. And

(50:53):
I've worked hard over the course of my life not to just be a front runner, you
know, and that's the same thing when you talk about like idea people or
visionaries or whatever the words
is that they want to call people that kind of do those things. But
because of my limited resources, I had to learn to do that other
aspect. then I had to learn how to do it with other people. And

(51:16):
that's always been a struggle for me, but is something that,
you know, I think without coaching would have been even harder for me to do. But
learning how to build out, you know, systems so that when I brought people in
or started to, you know, onboard people, they
could utilize me to a degree, but also fall
back on the systems that we already had in place. And then, you

(51:38):
know, work that together. And then the next key was to hire other people that
were really good at working with people and developing
people as well, besides just having to rely on myself to do
Cool. All right. Let's wrap this with
some rapid fire questions. You can pass on any
of these if you want. Who's your favorite athlete to

(52:00):
I talked about her before, cause I was just watching the Olympics is a metal or
So awesome. Uh, what's the most innovative product comment
I mean, there's a bunch of them and they're all small things, but I think, uh,
our split palm training glove was one of the first and only every glove
used to have these finger loops that your fingers would pop out of or whatever. So

(52:21):
we created that first glove bottom that went to the center ridge of the hand, which
Biggest tip as a former pro fighter for parents looking
Nice. What's the most challenging aspect of running Combat Corner?

(52:42):
Like I said, I like people. I really like being around people
in social settings. I do. But I focus so
much on the outcome of things, so
much on the goal that I have
blinders and I don't really take care of feelings sometimes. And

(53:04):
What do you think, this is gonna be a hot take, which country, overall,
I know there's different ones, you can tell me the different ones, which country produces the best combat
I mean, I'm going to name a couple. So we've got Thailand, Japan, Mexico,
US, and you can even throw China and Pakistan in there because even
though they're looked at as the lower tier, they're capable

(53:27):
of making- You just got to find the right people in those countries. And to have the right actual
What's one piece of advice for aspiring entrepreneurs in combat
sports, whether it's starting something like Combat Corner, starting a gym or
I mean, always be learning. Number one, like if they don't have the passion

(53:47):
for it and they just think it's about money or this, that, that's stupid. Number
two would be, you know, learning from what already
Combat sports is typical. Like people think it's like meatheads
or whatever. Similar to like, you know, like weightlifting or bodybuilding or something like

(54:08):
that. It's like, these guys are stupid, but I
And my experience in jiu-jitsu, the smarter they are, sometimes
You can see that specifically because it's very tactical based. There's
many steps ahead. It's literally chess

(54:32):
I don't know. I can't answer that one. Too many. Like
That was exactly what it was, was just having you try on
Oh yeah. That smelled like curry. What's
Um, I mean, we had a lot going on. One of the big things is we

(54:54):
have expanded and we're, we're launching CR in our gyms where we do the full
I saw those two renderings and we'll drop those into a
Yeah, we actually, we, we did our first five beta jobs that,
you know, turned out great. Um, and we've continued to push that through.
We're still running it within our own program. So like it's not open

(55:15):
to the public or anything like that, but we plan to launch it before the end of this
year. And, um, it's, I mean, that's, that's another thing we're taking to
the next level because there's a couple of players in the space that kind
And it's not just like rendering out a gym and like the
mats on the floor, but I saw one that you did and have like all
the workout equipment and walls and big trolleys and,

(55:38):
and all that stuff. And I'll tell you as a, as a one, a gym owner and
to someone that can't picture shit, like I can't picture
what my wife looks like in my head. It's literally a thing. If
you told me to picture an apple, I can't really picture an apple. I just see something red.
So like when I'm trying to visualize a space, I literally can't do
it. So something like that that you guys are doing is a legit game

(55:58):
changer for people that are trying to create a business that looks
yeah Because

(56:19):
in a lot of gyms, in a lot of jiu-jitsu gyms, they probably should only have mats instead
of a bunch of fitness equipment they're going to hang clothes on. So
we always talk with them. And really, because we've been in
the space so long, and my partner in that side of the business has
been running a gym for 20-plus years as well and
is a great designer, we take all those aspects

(56:41):
together and we try to design something that
will not only meet their expectations, but really
deliver what they need as opposed to just being like, okay, you want this?
We'll do it. Like we'll, we'll let people know if we think something's a
You have an unfair advantage of all the experience that you have with
all the gyms that you supply for

(57:03):
gear and seeing what the inside of their gyms look like and the layouts that
they have and knowing their program mixes between how many jiu-jitsu athletes,
how many kickboxing, how many kids, how many adults, and all those
blends. But also, you're really good at merchandising. Your
showroom is beautiful. And people see it,
and it's clean. It's easy to find what you want. So I think you

(57:24):
have such a great advantage versus a person that's
been to a couple gyms before, and they kind of know what they want, versus someone that truly
has experience in a vast variety of layouts
I think that's the exact scenario where when
they come to us, especially new guys, someone who has never ran

(57:45):
or owned a gym before, they might have been an instructor somewhere or this or that, is
we can provide that service of actually guiding them to
proper decisions and also budgetary constraints.
So it's one of those things where I don't want them to fail. I
want them to be successful the same way we want with our normal product line.
Because I've always said this from day one is like, we consult with

(58:07):
our customers to help them become better business owners. Because a lot
of people in the space, just like I was when I entered it, are
not trained traditionally. We have no
real experience and we're just jumping in. So because of
my knowledge from all these years and my partners or staff or
crew, we're able to assist these people in making smart decisions

(58:32):
And I do see working with Combat Corner personally as a true partnership because,
you know, if I send you guys a shirt design and it passes back by
But let me tell you, if that helps me sell
10 more shirts, it helps me get 10 more

(58:53):
people walking around with my logo, which helps me purchase 10 more
shirts from you. So I get the win from walking around. I get a little bit
of extra income. You get a little extra income. So your love of
helping gyms grow just helps everyone. And
not a lot of other companies do that. They take your order, they fulfill it, and there you go.
They'll just do whatever. And if someone really, really wants something,

(59:14):
we'll do it. We'll do it. We'll do it for them. Don't get me wrong. I
mean, there's probably been a couple of scenarios where we just all right refused to do
something that we knew was terrible. In general, we
try to guide our customers to success. It's
that simple because their success is our success. Without
their improved business growth and our retention of them,

(59:38):
Same thing as gyms. If I'm not getting results from my customers and I don't
have them talking about my gym, I'm not going to grow at all either. Any
That's it. Cool. Well, thank you for
coming on and taking some time out of your crazy busy schedule. I'm
glad I made it to, uh, your prioritized list of items

(01:00:01):
to do. And, uh, it's been great working with
Now, I actually appreciate you inviting me on just because I got a chance to get
out of the office for a little bit. And then also, you
know, I appreciate your business, loyal business. So it's been a