May 4, 2025 • 22 mins
What happens when we base an entire economy on feeding the elite? It’s That Part host Jesse Lee Hammonds unpacks the dangerous myth of supply-side economics — an idea born in the 1800s and still fueling bad policy in 2025. From robber barons to Elon Musk, from the Great Depression to the next crash, this episode connects the historical dots and shows why the system was never built to serve everyone. If you’ve ever wondered why your paycheck feels smaller while the rich get richer, this episode is your answer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Yeah, it's that part, thepart that makes sense.
The one that hits different withyour host, Jesse Lee Hammonds.
Let's get into it.
(00:25):
You back.
Welcome back.
I'm Jesse Lee Hammonds, and todaywe are taking a trip back in time.
We're going to talk about somethingmany of you may have heard of.
(00:48):
You know, maybe if you've taken aneconomics class or just, um, you know,
maybe sometime in civics or somethinglike that, way back in the day.
Um, but, um.
It's, it's, it's a term.
It's a term and, and amethod and procedure.
I guess if you wanna lookat it like that as well.
(01:10):
It's called Horse and SparrowEconomics, and we're talking about that.
I want to touch on that because.
W we're kinda dealing with a lotof that today, or at least, uh,
the current administration wantsto go back to, you know, that type
of economics, uh, which, uh, quitefrankly didn't work for everybody.
(01:34):
You see, whether you're shoppingonline, picking up groceries,
paying your rent, or just.
Trying to make ends meet.
Uh, you and I were all livinginside an economic system, and
the ideas that built this systemdidn't just fall out of the sky.
No, not just out of the blue.
They were, they were made, uh,they were put together, they were
(01:57):
crafted, they were remixed and, andpackaged and sold to you and me.
The general public.
Uh, now, uh, some of those ideas areas old as the 18 hundreds, literally,
and believe it or not, they'restill shaping, uh, your and my, uh,
paycheck, uh, our bills and, andeven our future to a certain extent.
(02:21):
So today we're pulling out the receipts.
Yeah.
Uh, because like I always say, it isnot about who says it the loudest.
It's, it's about whetherit's the truth or not.
It's that part.
Alright.
Hits different with your host.
Uh, the name of thepodcast, of course, sir.
(02:45):
And so it's gonna be aboutfour, four different parts.
Uh, let's see.
And let's see.
Uh, we're gonna be
hitting the, uh, the facts.
Um, and you know what the facts show forboth then and now or about then and now.
(03:09):
Uh, we're also going to do, I fast forwardand see how Horse and Sparrow became
a name by other names
of which.
And, uh, we're also gonna takea look at, uh, what it meant
(03:30):
for everyday people
now, uh,
but we're going to kickthings off with, um,
politics.
A segment of, you know, just explainings where a horse and spar came from.
Uh, the idea of horse and sparroweconomics goes back to the, uh, late
(03:52):
19th century, also known as the.
That the current administrationreally seems dead set on
trying to get back there.
Imagine it's a time and you justhave to use your imagination,
or you can even look it up.
For that matter was a time where there'srailroad robber barons, uh, sweat shops
(04:18):
and no legal protections around that time.
A, a journalist named John, she.
The phrase and the uh,the theory was simple.
He force plenty of
votes
and sparrows will get what's left
behind.
Translation.
(04:39):
If you let the rich
get richer, you make theforce fat, or up, eventually
some
prosperity will.
I'm sure you're still visualizing that.
(05:01):
I would understand it if you turned away.
It's just a visual.
That is something, but you know,something else, the reality of
it is really something else.
Uh, this idea became especially popularamong the Republican party at that
time, uh, which had evolved since the a.
(05:27):
It's a mis as well.
We'll get to all of that.
Uh, it, it was, um, it was used to, andit being the horse and sparrow economic
theory there, uh, it was used to justifypolicies that benefited the wealthy.
Um, and you might, some of thesemight sound familiar, tax breaks,
(05:50):
deregulation and crushing labor unions.
Yeah, it's not something new.
So, uh, we'll get to that now.
Uh, it's important to note backthen, uh, there were no income tax,
uh, for most of the 18 hundreds.
(06:11):
Uh, something also familiar to you as faras today's news goes, uh, the government
largely funded itself through tariffs.
Yeah, not through taxing individualincomes and for whatever reason, uh,
the evil one is just stuck on that.
He's, he's just stuck on that.
(06:33):
And, and, and again, we'll,we'll deal with this, you know,
because it was all a myth.
And that was then, and this is now, um,as my, as my mom used to say, and then
others, I'm sure last year's reign.
Makes, you know, doesnothing for this year's crop.
(06:56):
She used to say it a different way,but that was basically what she was
saying, but the idea was the same.
Uh, don't disturb the rich becauseif you do, you'll hurt the economy
and by extension everyone else.
So, um.
That leads us to the, the, thesecond part of all of this.
So what it meant for everyday people then.
(07:19):
Um, so for everyday people, horse andSparrow, economics was a disaster.
Simple, simple as that.
Plain and simple.
While the Vanderbilts, uh, uh, theCarnegies and the, the, uh, Rockefellers.
Uh, amassed fortunes that would maketoday's billionaires look humble.
(07:44):
Uh, shout out to Elon Musk.
Uh, most workers labored 12 to 16hours a day, often in unsafe conditions
for barely enough to survive.
And cities tenements were overcrowded.
Sanitation was poor, anddiseases ran rampant.
Shout out to, uh, RFK Jr. With whathe's got going on these days or
(08:06):
wants to get going on these days.
Um, children were working in factories.
Uh, families were losing lambs lungsand lives, uh, just just to survive.
Just to survive.
But the message from thetop was always the same.
Be patient prosperity is coming.
(08:30):
Just wait for it, or in the wordsof, uh, the current evil one.
Uh, they'll just be just alittle bit of pain, you know?
No, don't worry.
So now, um, let's fast forwardto the, to the 20th century.
(08:50):
Uh, after the, uh, great Depression,America learned a hard lesson.
That unregulated, uh, uh,capitalism and economic inequality
can crash the whole system thathappened, and it can happen again.
That's not a myth.
So in the, uh, 1930s through the1970s, we saw the rise of labor
(09:14):
rights, social security, bankingregulation, and progressive taxation.
And what that, what, what wasthe result of all of that?
The middle class group.
The middle class group.
That's how that, that's how it's done.
That's how it was done.
(09:35):
We can repeat that, but in the1980s, something old made a
comeback just with a new name.
Okay.
And guess who thefigurehead was at that time?
That's right.
President Ronald Reagan.
(09:57):
Uh, he and his advisor started pushingwhat they called supply side economics.
Which was again, the, the, uh, sheep'sclothing, clothing for horse and sparrow.
The idea that, uh, if you cut taxesfor the wealthy and businesses,
(10:19):
they would invest more, uh, grow theeconomy and create jobs for everybody.
Ride.
Ride.
In fact, uh, Reaganfamously said a rising tide.
Let me see if I can imitate him.
Uh oh.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
(10:42):
That was the best I can do.
Uh, but uh, underneath that it was stillhorse and sparrow by any other name.
It was still that.
Feed the horse enough and hopesomething falls to the sparrow.
And the sparrow being any kindof bird and of course a metaphor
(11:07):
for us, you and me, you and I.
So, um, let's look at the receipts.
Studies show that trickle downeconomics didn't create the broad based
prosperity that, uh, was promised.
Here's what actually happened.
Income inequality skyrocketed.
(11:27):
Wages for most workers stagnated.
While CEO pay exploded, the richest1% captured a a disproportionate
share of the economic growth.
And that's still going on.
According to a, uh, 2012 study bythe Congressional Research Service,
(11:48):
no clear relationship exists betweentop tax rates and economic growth.
Okay.
Did you hear that?
No clear relationship exists betweentop tax rates and economic growth.
In fact, when taxes on the wealthy werehigher in the uh, uh, the 1950s through
(12:11):
the 1960s, the economy grew faster thanit did under Reagan error policies.
Okay.
And that Princeton study I mentionedearlier, it found that government
policy overwhelmingly followsthe preferences of the wealthy
elite, not the average citizen.
(12:35):
I. And, um, and, and, and, and asalways, with everything, and this
should be a practice, a normalpractice that you have, that I have,
I'm gonna put links to all of this.
I. Uh, in the, uh, the bio, um, on ablog and in a few other places there
(12:56):
so that you can easily get to the,the source of all of this information.
I'm just not talking, you know, out theside of my neck or anything like that.
Um, I'm actually presenting the factsbecause there's truth in every fact.
The bottom line, horse and sparrow.
Was a myth in the 19 or the18 hundreds, and it's still a
(13:21):
myth today by whatever name.
Now, you, you might be thinking, okay,Jesse, but what does this have to do with
me buying groceries or gas or clothesfor my kids, for that matter in one word?
Everything, everything.
(13:41):
When tax cuts go, uh, primarily tothe healthy, or shall I say, the
wealthy, hopefully they're healthy.
But when it goes to the, to the, tothe wealthy, uh, to governments, or
shall I say the government, you know,let's start that one more time to.
Three,
when tax cuts go primarily to thewealthy, governments have less
(14:07):
money for things that help everyone,like good roads, healthcare,
education, or even disaster recovery.
Another, um, another target of Doge,you know, to try to, to chop up and,
and defund, and I'm talking about fema.
(14:27):
I. Um, as a matter of fact, a budgetwas just passed and no money was
allocated, allocated for disaster,uh, preparedness or recovery.
But, uh, and, and there was, uh,uh, cuts for domestic programs
and that sort of thing, and anincrease in military spending.
(14:54):
Um, when workers aren't paid fairly,it forces more people into debt just to
live now, but it also boosts corporate,uh, uh, profits, but shrinking real
wealth where everyday folks, sothis, the supply side, the horse and
(15:15):
sparrow theory, again, it's a myth.
It, it does not work.
You know, for, you know, everybody,it might work for that 1% or, or I'll,
I'll even give it from the one to the,to the five, to perhaps even the 10
percenters, but not for the rest of us.
(15:36):
You see, when the gap between therich and the poor grows too wide,
history shows it creates social unrest,political instability, and economic.
Crashes and that's beingpredicted as a matter of fact
by a number of economists today.
So if you are out here orthere grinding every day.
(16:01):
You know, whatever it is that you're,that you're doing, uh, uh, tried and, and
you're trying to stretch your paycheckor just manage it and wondering, uh,
why it feels harder and harder to do so,it's not just you, it's, it's the system.
The system.
(16:22):
And that system, it wasbuilt in part on a theory.
That said it was okay to feed the horsesand let the sparrows hope for the crumbs.
AKA horse and sparrow, AKA supplyside, economics, a k, a Reaganomics.
(16:48):
So, um, the game, uh, uh, has been thesame for over a century and knowing that.
It changes or it should changehow we see the promises, uh,
made by our politicians today.
Because the truth has away of exposing the spin.
(17:10):
No matter from Whom'smouth, it's coming from,
it's that part right there.
That's it.
It's that part in OAG media production.
Be sure to like, follow,download, subscribe, and share
the link with everybody you know.
(17:31):
And remember, history not only remindsus of what happened in the past, but also
shines a light on what's happening rightnow and what could happen in the future.
So stay aware and stay awake.
It's that the truth.
You need to hear what'sthe truth's, the truth
(18:03):
makes.
Oh, you
it in.
Yeah, it's that part, thepart that makes sense.
The one that hits different withyour host, Jesse Lee Hammonds.
Let's get into it.
(00:25):
You back.
Welcome back.
I'm Jesse Lee Hammonds, and todaywe are taking a trip back in time.
We're going to talk about somethingmany of you may have heard of.
(00:48):
You know, maybe if you've taken aneconomics class or just, um, you know,
maybe sometime in civics or somethinglike that, way back in the day.
Um, but, um.
It's, it's, it's a term.
It's a term and, and amethod and procedure.
I guess if you wanna lookat it like that as well.
(01:10):
It's called Horse and SparrowEconomics, and we're talking about that.
I want to touch on that because.
W we're kinda dealing with a lotof that today, or at least, uh,
the current administration wantsto go back to, you know, that type
of economics, uh, which, uh, quitefrankly didn't work for everybody.
(01:34):
You see, whether you're shoppingonline, picking up groceries,
paying your rent, or just.
Trying to make ends meet.
Uh, you and I were all livinginside an economic system, and
the ideas that built this systemdidn't just fall out of the sky.
No, not just out of the blue.
They were, they were made, uh,they were put together, they were
(01:57):
crafted, they were remixed and, andpackaged and sold to you and me.
The general public.
Uh, now, uh, some of those ideas areas old as the 18 hundreds, literally,
and believe it or not, they'restill shaping, uh, your and my, uh,
paycheck, uh, our bills and, andeven our future to a certain extent.
(02:21):
So today we're pulling out the receipts.
Yeah.
Uh, because like I always say, it isnot about who says it the loudest.
It's, it's about whetherit's the truth or not.
It's that part.
Alright.
Hits different with your host.
Uh, the name of thepodcast, of course, sir.
(02:45):
And so it's gonna be aboutfour, four different parts.
Uh, let's see.
And let's see.
Uh, we're gonna be
hitting the, uh, the facts.
Um, and you know what the facts show forboth then and now or about then and now.
(03:09):
Uh, we're also going to do, I fast forwardand see how Horse and Sparrow became
a name by other names
of which.
And, uh, we're also gonna takea look at, uh, what it meant
(03:30):
for everyday people
now, uh,
but we're going to kickthings off with, um,
politics.
A segment of, you know, just explainings where a horse and spar came from.
Uh, the idea of horse and sparroweconomics goes back to the, uh, late
(03:52):
19th century, also known as the.
That the current administrationreally seems dead set on
trying to get back there.
Imagine it's a time and you justhave to use your imagination,
or you can even look it up.
For that matter was a time where there'srailroad robber barons, uh, sweat shops
(04:18):
and no legal protections around that time.
A, a journalist named John, she.
The phrase and the uh,the theory was simple.
He force plenty of
votes
and sparrows will get what's left
behind.
Translation.
(04:39):
If you let the rich
get richer, you make theforce fat, or up, eventually
some
prosperity will.
I'm sure you're still visualizing that.
(05:01):
I would understand it if you turned away.
It's just a visual.
That is something, but you know,something else, the reality of
it is really something else.
Uh, this idea became especially popularamong the Republican party at that
time, uh, which had evolved since the a.
(05:27):
It's a mis as well.
We'll get to all of that.
Uh, it, it was, um, it was used to, andit being the horse and sparrow economic
theory there, uh, it was used to justifypolicies that benefited the wealthy.
Um, and you might, some of thesemight sound familiar, tax breaks,
(05:50):
deregulation and crushing labor unions.
Yeah, it's not something new.
So, uh, we'll get to that now.
Uh, it's important to note backthen, uh, there were no income tax,
uh, for most of the 18 hundreds.
(06:11):
Uh, something also familiar to you as faras today's news goes, uh, the government
largely funded itself through tariffs.
Yeah, not through taxing individualincomes and for whatever reason, uh,
the evil one is just stuck on that.
He's, he's just stuck on that.
(06:33):
And, and, and again, we'll,we'll deal with this, you know,
because it was all a myth.
And that was then, and this is now, um,as my, as my mom used to say, and then
others, I'm sure last year's reign.
Makes, you know, doesnothing for this year's crop.
(06:56):
She used to say it a different way,but that was basically what she was
saying, but the idea was the same.
Uh, don't disturb the rich becauseif you do, you'll hurt the economy
and by extension everyone else.
So, um.
That leads us to the, the, thesecond part of all of this.
So what it meant for everyday people then.
(07:19):
Um, so for everyday people, horse andSparrow, economics was a disaster.
Simple, simple as that.
Plain and simple.
While the Vanderbilts, uh, uh, theCarnegies and the, the, uh, Rockefellers.
Uh, amassed fortunes that would maketoday's billionaires look humble.
(07:44):
Uh, shout out to Elon Musk.
Uh, most workers labored 12 to 16hours a day, often in unsafe conditions
for barely enough to survive.
And cities tenements were overcrowded.
Sanitation was poor, anddiseases ran rampant.
Shout out to, uh, RFK Jr. With whathe's got going on these days or
(08:06):
wants to get going on these days.
Um, children were working in factories.
Uh, families were losing lambs lungsand lives, uh, just just to survive.
Just to survive.
But the message from thetop was always the same.
Be patient prosperity is coming.
(08:30):
Just wait for it, or in the wordsof, uh, the current evil one.
Uh, they'll just be just alittle bit of pain, you know?
No, don't worry.
So now, um, let's fast forwardto the, to the 20th century.
(08:50):
Uh, after the, uh, great Depression,America learned a hard lesson.
That unregulated, uh, uh,capitalism and economic inequality
can crash the whole system thathappened, and it can happen again.
That's not a myth.
So in the, uh, 1930s through the1970s, we saw the rise of labor
(09:14):
rights, social security, bankingregulation, and progressive taxation.
And what that, what, what wasthe result of all of that?
The middle class group.
The middle class group.
That's how that, that's how it's done.
That's how it was done.
(09:35):
We can repeat that, but in the1980s, something old made a
comeback just with a new name.
Okay.
And guess who thefigurehead was at that time?
That's right.
President Ronald Reagan.
(09:57):
Uh, he and his advisor started pushingwhat they called supply side economics.
Which was again, the, the, uh, sheep'sclothing, clothing for horse and sparrow.
The idea that, uh, if you cut taxesfor the wealthy and businesses,
(10:19):
they would invest more, uh, grow theeconomy and create jobs for everybody.
Ride.
Ride.
In fact, uh, Reaganfamously said a rising tide.
Let me see if I can imitate him.
Uh oh.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
(10:42):
That was the best I can do.
Uh, but uh, underneath that it was stillhorse and sparrow by any other name.
It was still that.
Feed the horse enough and hopesomething falls to the sparrow.
And the sparrow being any kindof bird and of course a metaphor
(11:07):
for us, you and me, you and I.
So, um, let's look at the receipts.
Studies show that trickle downeconomics didn't create the broad based
prosperity that, uh, was promised.
Here's what actually happened.
Income inequality skyrocketed.
(11:27):
Wages for most workers stagnated.
While CEO pay exploded, the richest1% captured a a disproportionate
share of the economic growth.
And that's still going on.
According to a, uh, 2012 study bythe Congressional Research Service,
(11:48):
no clear relationship exists betweentop tax rates and economic growth.
Okay.
Did you hear that?
No clear relationship exists betweentop tax rates and economic growth.
In fact, when taxes on the wealthy werehigher in the uh, uh, the 1950s through
(12:11):
the 1960s, the economy grew faster thanit did under Reagan error policies.
Okay.
And that Princeton study I mentionedearlier, it found that government
policy overwhelmingly followsthe preferences of the wealthy
elite, not the average citizen.
(12:35):
I. And, um, and, and, and, and asalways, with everything, and this
should be a practice, a normalpractice that you have, that I have,
I'm gonna put links to all of this.
I. Uh, in the, uh, the bio, um, on ablog and in a few other places there
(12:56):
so that you can easily get to the,the source of all of this information.
I'm just not talking, you know, out theside of my neck or anything like that.
Um, I'm actually presenting the factsbecause there's truth in every fact.
The bottom line, horse and sparrow.
Was a myth in the 19 or the18 hundreds, and it's still a
(13:21):
myth today by whatever name.
Now, you, you might be thinking, okay,Jesse, but what does this have to do with
me buying groceries or gas or clothesfor my kids, for that matter in one word?
Everything, everything.
(13:41):
When tax cuts go, uh, primarily tothe healthy, or shall I say, the
wealthy, hopefully they're healthy.
But when it goes to the, to the, tothe wealthy, uh, to governments, or
shall I say the government, you know,let's start that one more time to.
Three,
when tax cuts go primarily to thewealthy, governments have less
(14:07):
money for things that help everyone,like good roads, healthcare,
education, or even disaster recovery.
Another, um, another target of Doge,you know, to try to, to chop up and,
and defund, and I'm talking about fema.
(14:27):
I. Um, as a matter of fact, a budgetwas just passed and no money was
allocated, allocated for disaster,uh, preparedness or recovery.
But, uh, and, and there was, uh,uh, cuts for domestic programs
and that sort of thing, and anincrease in military spending.
(14:54):
Um, when workers aren't paid fairly,it forces more people into debt just to
live now, but it also boosts corporate,uh, uh, profits, but shrinking real
wealth where everyday folks, sothis, the supply side, the horse and
(15:15):
sparrow theory, again, it's a myth.
It, it does not work.
You know, for, you know, everybody,it might work for that 1% or, or I'll,
I'll even give it from the one to the,to the five, to perhaps even the 10
percenters, but not for the rest of us.
(15:36):
You see, when the gap between therich and the poor grows too wide,
history shows it creates social unrest,political instability, and economic.
Crashes and that's beingpredicted as a matter of fact
by a number of economists today.
So if you are out here orthere grinding every day.
(16:01):
You know, whatever it is that you're,that you're doing, uh, uh, tried and, and
you're trying to stretch your paycheckor just manage it and wondering, uh,
why it feels harder and harder to do so,it's not just you, it's, it's the system.
The system.
(16:22):
And that system, it wasbuilt in part on a theory.
That said it was okay to feed the horsesand let the sparrows hope for the crumbs.
AKA horse and sparrow, AKA supplyside, economics, a k, a Reaganomics.
(16:48):
So, um, the game, uh, uh, has been thesame for over a century and knowing that.
It changes or it should changehow we see the promises, uh,
made by our politicians today.
Because the truth has away of exposing the spin.
(17:10):
No matter from Whom'smouth, it's coming from,
it's that part right there.
That's it.
It's that part in OAG media production.
Be sure to like, follow,download, subscribe, and share
the link with everybody you know.
(17:31):
And remember, history not only remindsus of what happened in the past, but also
shines a light on what's happening rightnow and what could happen in the future.
So stay aware and stay awake.
It's that the truth.
You need to hear what'sthe truth's, the truth
(18:03):
makes.
Oh, you
it in.
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