SMASHED: An Exclusive Interview with Todd Ley

Join us on this episode of Backyard Legends as we sit down with Todd Ley, a former professional tennis player, and coach. Todd opens up about his life, sharing stories about his time on the court, his transition from playing to coaching, and his involvement in Thanasi Kokkinakis's career. He discusses the highs of winning tournaments, including Thanasi's maiden ATP title, and the lows of personal struggles. Todd also gives us a raw and unfiltered look at the world of professional tennis, revealing the realities behind the sport and the media's portrayal of it. With the release of his new book "Smashed", Todd shares the story behind this revealing memoir, offering a unique perspective on the world of tennis.

Episode Transcript

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(01:06):
Australian made, Australian quality,
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Hey folks, you're about to see a very
interesting episode of Backyard Legends
of Bevo. Normally we like to look at the
happy times, childhood growing up,
climbing trees, this sort of thing.
Unfortunately for our guest today, Todd
Ley, this wasn't quite the case. This is

(01:27):
a very fascinating interview. It's a
little bit darker than usual, but I'll
tell you what, it's definitely worth a
watch. So stick around for this one.
Well, what a pleasure it is to have the
man who is a professional tennis player
and now a professional coach, Todd Lay,
part of the Lay and Langman Elite Tennis
Academy. Did I pronounce that correctly
mate?You got it. Great to have you on the
0show Todd and thanks for your time mate. 48 00:01:47,1000 --> 00:01:50,160 Yeah, yeahSo tell us about the tennis

(01:50):
journey, where it began for you growing
up. Ohh I don't really remember too
much. I remember stories that have been
sort of told and I
think I sort of got a racket from a Kris
0Kringle... And 55 00:02:03,1000 --> 00:02:06,880 then I don't really, again, I
don't have a lot of connection to a lot
0of my backstory of my life. I sort of 58 00:02:10,1000 --> 00:02:13,520 have a lot of snapshots of like photo

(02:13):
memories, but I don't know, it's
it's sort of a bit of a blur and a bit of
a mystery, to tell you the truth. Yeah,
right. But do you remember first picking
up a racket and how that came about?No, I
don't. All of a sudden, I think the first
conscious moment I've ever had, I just
sort of had this waving this thing
around. To tell you the truth, I don't
know, I justThere's video, I guess the

(02:34):
best way for me to remember is there's
videos of me. So I look at videos and I
was just always a very sort of energetic
kid running around playing tennis.
Yeah, so did you have like friends that
had tennis courts and stuff?Because you
said you had a makeshift tennis court,
tell us about that. Yeah, well, like very
quickly the thing went from like being a

(02:55):
recreational thing, but I think my father
saw something in me that was sort of
similar to himself, where I was like,
this kid's not exactly sort of normal.
And I think we can sort of make something
out of that, because my dad was the sort
of person that was always, he just
couldn't sort of fit into normal society.
Like he always sort of owned racehorses 87 00:03:12,1000 --> 00:03:15,760 and greyhounds, had rib

(03:15):
shops and just always doing things that
were a little bit off, off center. Yeah,
I don't know. I mean, pretty quickly it
went from being a recreational hobby to
then being a job, 93 00:03:27,1000 --> 00:03:29,920 essentially. That's how I remember it.
like We'll talk about this a little bit
later on because you're writing a book
called Smashed, which I can't wait to

(03:36):
hear more about. You've got a
pretty big opinion about you know parents
being really harsh on their kids and you
know forcing them. We've heard some
stories about the Hewitt's and what have
you and how nasty they were back in the
day and if you lost the game they make
him walk home and those sort of things.
Did you feel you you had that same
experience growing up as well with tennis
and now you almost don't like the sport

(03:57):
anymore?I think I think there's a
traditional view on tennis parents. like
these people are just malicious brutes.
And I don't think that's really true
either. At the start when I was writing
this book a lot of emotion was coming out
and I was writing quite aggressively I
guess you'd say because a lot of anger
and annoyance stuff was really coming out
of me. But as I started to

(04:17):
write it more and reflect on what I'd
written, and again just the industry that
I'd been and the people that I'd seen, I
could see that these people weren't
necessarily malicious but they sort of
got themselves involved in something that
almost likethey were powerless over.
There's this sort of almost like vortex
type thing when it comes to if anyone
really sort of invests in anything, all

(04:38):
of a sudden they want a return on it. It
doesn't matter whether it's shares or
what it is and this just happens to be
child sport. So now that they're
investing in something, they want to see
a return and they sort of forget the fact
that the people that they're essentially
0gambling with are children.
So they sort of dehumanize children from
0a pretty young age and

(04:59):
It's a shame to see, but a lot of young
players can become victims of this
essentially type of child slave
labor, really. Like it's, if you see
it from the angle that I've seen it from,
they don't have much say in the matter,
the children and the players. So,
but then again, if you look at the best
tennis players of all time, they've been

(05:21):
made from tennis parents. So no one can
really ruin a player's career like a
tennis parent, and no one can really make
them either like a tennis parent. So
they've got this,
I don't know, you knowYeah, interesting,
yeah. And And what about growing up, like
did you start, you started playing
tennis, you know, at a young age and were
you traveling, did you sort of travel

(05:42):
overseas and stuff as a young fella to
play in the circuit quite a bit?Yeah,
well like I I won some of the biggest
junior tournaments in the world and then
I was the youngest ever athlete signed by
IMG. So once I got that contract, there's
a, you know, essentially like a,sporting
sausage factory over in Florida called
IMG Boletari's. And that was a powerhouse
where all the top players were basically

(06:04):
coming out of. And I had the rule of the
roost there, so I was flown over there
from a very young age. Yeah, it was like
this, yeah, it was sort of like this
compound for sporting extremists, really. 172 00:06:15,1000 --> 00:06:18,960 And um I was based there from a
very young age, from about 11 to about
17. I lived in Melbourne as well
when I was back here in Australia at the

(06:26):
AIS. And then when I wasn't in those two
places, I was basically just globe
trotting around playing from tournament
to tournament. Sometimes by myself,
sometimes with other teams. A lot of the
times with my dad, that was my
life. And did you have siblings as well,
Todd, growing up?Yeah, I did. Can't
remember their names, but yeah, I did.
Yeah, I had an

(06:47):
older sister. And I have a younger sister
who's, I think nine years younger than
me, yeah. So some backyard sporting
battles with them growing up or?No, not
really. It was like, I I was pretty well
like the golden child and no one else
really got much attention. You know, like
it was really my my tennis commitments
ruled my family's world. It was just, I
was placed on this pedestal and
everything was just really,

(07:10):
I was the main coming attraction. I was
like this human child spectacle sort of
thing and so everyone else was just,
caught up in this, again, this thing that
just happens from child
excellence, the pursuit of child
excellence essentially. And how did you
deal with that and do you feel as though

(07:31):
your siblings resented you a little bit
because you were getting all that
attention?Ah Did she, I
mean,
again, coming from a competitive
environment, it's like competition is
kind of normal.
So, yeah, I I guess so.
It's just a weird, it's just a very, very

(07:53):
weird situation where I was like, you
know, if you ask me if
I have any normal memories, the answer is
really no, like I don't,
because again, it's just,
it's like socialization and culture were
seen as the enemy of
excellence. well So you you got to be

(08:15):
kept away, you're going to be kept away
from that stuff and your job is to
entertain, perform and that's what you're
good at and that's that's sort of what
you do. It was never verbal. At a young
age as well that's so tough you know
because because like I said before, you
know other kids are climbing trees and
playing hide and seek. I didn't, I wasn't
really like attracted by that either. So

(08:36):
it wasn't like it was different if
someone's really rejecting it but the I
guess theThe tough part is
like, well, I was actually suited to
that. You know So if you're seeing
someone like be very good at climbing
trees, well, you allow them to climb
trees and this kid's very good at tennis
and he's just gonna do it for six hours,
just let him do it for six hours. And

(08:58):
then it's like, well, hold on, we might
be able to do something with this. And
then if someone just gets taken by that,
they have a susceptibility to extremism,
which my dad sort of was, he was this
maniac, sort of charismatic,
eccentric,captivatingly
weird person. Yeah. And he he
just felt like he could be this
ringmaster of our travelling circus,

(09:20):
really. Wow. And he was. And what about
being overseas for long periods of time,
Todd, as well, and did you miss sort of
being home and and the whole you know
backyard barbecue Aussie thing and and
did you sort of recreate that kind of
thing overseas as well?No, no, I
didn't. I I don't know. I always felt,
I've always felt very alienated and

(09:40):
distant and separated from people. I
didn't feel very at home within my own
family. Didn't feel like,
uh I always just sort of felt like a
self-made loner, even though I didn't
necessarily enjoy my own company. So it
was weird being away from people, but I
didn't necessarily, I don't know if

(10:00):
I've missed them is the right way to put
it, but I definitely feltI definitely
felt like alone. Do you reckon that
because tennis is such an individual
sport and I've heard people say this in
the past that they do become
independent people because they're not
playing like a footy or soccer or other
sports like that. Do you regret not
playing a sport that's like a team sport
like a basketball or something and and do

(10:21):
you think that made you a bit more of an
introvert?I can't regret anything I don't
have a choice in, do you know what I mean?
Some things are chosen for you, to to
look at something, I I don't tend to look
atlife really in a way like I've had all
these choices and options. Like yeah I I
tend to view it through really quite a
deterministic, failistic way of like, I
didn't have much say in this. I just went

(10:43):
along and put up and shut up.
Like, you know what I mean?I just sort of
took it and I never even thought that you
could go, hey, like this isn't, 'cause
it was just my normality, what's normal
to you was normal to you. So no, I don't,
I don't, regrets, no.
No. And what about now?You've got kids of
that of your own?Yeah, three-year-old,

(11:05):
yeah. Yeah And are you like, I know
obviously three still pretty young and
stuff, but are you now, I guess, living
those childhood memories, creating new
memories with your with your child that
you sort of didn't get yourself growing
up?No, I'm going to do the same thing
with him as my dad did.
Taking the pissYeah,
it's completely different. Yeah, I've got

(11:25):
to watch myself because again, like I I
have all thoseI have all those wires and
things ready, like he he comes out to the
to our academy, the Langman and Lay elite
academy. Yeah. And you know he's he's a
natural. He just came out and I wasn't
there at the time, I was somewhere else
and he hit a shot and and my
girlfriend sent me a video of it. And

(11:46):
straight away, within .3 of a second,
my planning of where I thought that I
could take this child just went 10 years
down the track. Wow. Yeah, so it's very
like-- You're being like your dad. Oh, I
was the narcissistic the whole thing,
like to to really do the same thing.
Yeah. So I have those susceptibilities as
well. So I've gotta really watch myself
when it comes to getting lost in

(12:09):
like living through my child. Like he's
not a racehorse, you know what I mean?
Good on you. He's not a racehorse, like
I've gotta get my own life sort of
separate to him. I'm not really raising
my child, I'm sort of there to... That's
the way that I'm sort of looking at it
anyway. Otherwise, I'm just gonna
interrupt. There's a lot of interfering,
too much interfering. You don't wanna be

(12:29):
like your dad, like you wanna actually
make your son do whatever he wants
to enjoy himself and he wants to be a
tennis player impression, tennis player
good on him, but you actually wanna just
let him do whatever he likes and let him
enjoy life, I get that same impression?
I mean, that should be everyone's
birthright. So again,
I I love my dad, there's no one I love

(12:50):
more than him. He's a very sort of
complicated and, you know, complex
person. And in a way, I don't think a lot
of the stuff that went on was was
necessarily his fault. So,
nah, like he's not this sort of evil. I
don't believe that these people, it's
very easy to paint someone through a
one-dimensional lens and think that
they're very evil and this and that and

(13:11):
that's not the case. Yeah.
And I think when someone
is sort ofnot able to see
themselves in their own actions and
everyone around them is sort of enabling
the behaviour, people get hurt. Yeah.
People get hurt. A huge thanks to Aussie
Rules Global for being an amazing sponsor
the last few years. And speaking of

(13:32):
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(13:52):
commemorations. The idea to make it
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tours with the Southern Slugs. Footy, he
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the diggers. They would love it, I'm
sure, because it's being in Australia

(14:14):
over there, isn't it?Have you taken your
lad down to like the local playground or
that sort of thing?You don't even do kid
things?Yeah, Yeah we go down, yeah
we uh, well he's parenting me in a way,
like I'm learning a lot from from my son.
Because, yeah, I mean,
everything that we do, he's just
completely liberated, this person. And

(14:36):
I feel very sort of shackled and
imprisoned in a lot of ways. Like, you
know, I try to really let
my son wash over me as much as I can.
Because he saved my life in a lot of
ways, saved my life. That's beautiful,
mate. And how'd you golike being away
from him because obviously we're speaking

(14:57):
a moment about how you got to first meet
Tanasi and that relationship with him and
and obviously Todd as well and going on
to win an Adelaide International
Championship and and playing the
Australian Open, what have you. But yeah,
how did you go being away from him the
last few years?Well, I went away
when he was three weeks old
and I was away during COVID so
that was a very weird, weird time

(15:20):
because we had trouble, me potentially
getting back, the flights backI
don't know, like $22,000. It was very
lucky that I I nearly got stuck in
Romania. Weird time. And I was lucky
the fact that I didn't really know him,
my son, 'cause he's only about three
weeks old. But now he's got like a
personality in that, I couldn't really
leave him now. So it

(15:42):
was ideal timing to sort of
be away for that period of time. Yeah,
so lucky I got back. Yeah, I've got two
and a half year old and they're at that
cute age, aren't they, where they just
want to muck around and have lots of fun
and yeah drive you crazy at the same
time. Yeah, Yeah it's great.
Yeah I'm I'm really glad that

(16:03):
I'm a father. Yeah, good on you. And your
own professional career?A lot to be proud
about with that. How so?
Well, you played obviously at the highest
level. I didn't play at the highest
level. I didn't play at the highest
level. I mean, I played professionally
and it was a very brief career. I don't
know about the highest level. Still

(16:24):
though, you were playing overseas on the
tennis circuit at a young age, that's
still something to be pretty proud of. I
mean, again, like when you're expecting,
there's a lot of expectation on me to go
further than I was, so yeah I don't look
at that as like, yay me. That's
not how I view that. It's been quite a,
almost, not almost, it's been a shameful
thing. Okay, what about the coaching,

(16:45):
when did that first come about?The
coaching came about after the career
failed. Yeah. Yeah Nothing else to
do. Yeah right. So we spoke about this
off air before and you thought okay my my
tennis career is over as a professional
player, what am I going to do next?And
rather than sort of working at Maccas. It
wasn't like an okay I think, like I sat

(17:05):
down with a guidance counsellor and we
worked this out. Yeah. Bang,
what what do I do, where do I go, what,
which way is up, which way is down,
everyone's gone, where are they all?Yeah,
wellI don't have any, that. So it's
more that, like to sit down and be like,
this was a planned out, methodical type
thing. It was, no, it was complete

(17:27):
falling off the cliff, falling on your
arseWhat do I do?Cling to whatever you
can to save life. Well, so
coaching has technically saved your life?
Well, it's kept my heart ticking over,
let's put it that way. I don't know if
it's kept my sanity. It's It's
affected that more than anything. But
really, like again, because of,all

(17:47):
eggs being in one basket, there was no
contingent, there's no contingency plan.
Contingency plan would just be basically
running with a parachute on. It was like,
this is what we're doing, this is where
you're going. And any other thought apart
from that would would be seen as as the
thing you weren't serious about it. So it
was like, I didn't have any other, I
didn't have anything to fall back on. The

(18:08):
only thing that I had, that I knew how to
do was this. Was being a coach, yeah.
Well, tennis. I didn't know how to coach,
I didn't know how to do that. Okay, so
what age, like when did you, at what
stage of your playing career did you
start thinking, Oh, better look towards
being a coach now. There was no thinking.
Ohh There was no thinking. It was just
bang over the edge. Yeah.

(18:29):
What do I, I don't know what to do.
What do I do, I don't know. It was
a... it was it was
very catastrophic and
cataclysmic end to what I was doing. It
would just abruptly ended. As a player?As
a player, yeah. Just snap, snap, fucked

(18:51):
it. I'm I'm done. And it would never even
occurred to me ever in my life that I
would not be doing this. It was just
like, I had an incident that happened to
me when I was in the, where was I?I
was in, I don't know, I can remember, but
I've forgotten, I've lost the,Train of
thought, yeah. Yeah And there was an
incident that happened. I've written

(19:11):
about it in my book. I walked away from
that, there was a chance of me to get
into the courtesy car, to go back to the
hotel, or and I I
walked, I walked, I ran.
Yeah, that was basically, I walked around
and it was just bang, you're done. And I
was like, I I just knew that this this
thing was was completely over. There was
something inside of me that went, that's

(19:33):
it. So if you asked me five minutes
earlier, if that would, I mean, it just
never even... What age were you at that
stage mate?Seventeen. Wow.
So you've been coaching like as a
teenager pretty much?Yeah. Yeah Wow.
Seventeen, yeah. Yeah With your coaching
methods, do you follow a different kind
of approach which is obviously different

(19:54):
to what you went through now and and not
sort of beingI guess like obviously the
parents aren't involved as as much
because it's you coaching one-on-one but
do you try and sort of adopt more of a
method which is something different to
what your dad sort of did to you as a
child?Yeah. Does that make sense?Yeah,
Yeah I I tried to keep it as much as

(20:14):
possible between me and the and the
player. So I
I'm not open to outside interference,
especially when I'm there. It's got to be
between me and the person who I'm working
with. Yeah. But ultimately,
again, that's a drop in the bucket in
comparison to the other, how many

(20:34):
other hours there are in the week that a
child spends with their their
parents. Yeah. So the conditioning,
you can't really compete with
conditioning. Yeah. So it's, I
don't know, it's sort of sometimes
feels like it's a bit of a,winless
pursuit. Like it's it's difficult
because everyone very quickly becomes an

(20:54):
expert and everyone's great at telling
everyone else how to live their lives and
what to do. Yeah, so true. Yeah. And
then once again they get involved in this
thing and then that you know.
I know. Completely different to your
situation but I used to be involved with
Ready Steady Go Kids program
and the parents would always get involved
and it would drive me crazy. Yeah,

(21:16):
thank you. I know exactly what you mean.
Todd Langman, where did you first get
to meet and and tell us about the academy
as well. I met Todd when I think I was
seven and he was 14 and he was one of the
only people that took my dad up at the
end of this Roseland squad to to play
sets with this seven-year-old kid. You
knowIt's weird being in it, being a
14 year old and and hitting with this

(21:37):
young, you know, juvenile,
really. And anyway, straight
away, immediately we were back at
Langman, again, we were just
strangers, you know, a couple
hours earlier. I think he jumped in the
car with me and my dad, directed us
back to his house and we were playing
practice sets at his court, his
synthetic grass court to about, I
don't know, I think it might have

(21:58):
been 11:30 and I think he's, until
I think either there's a noise complainer
or a next door neighbor complainer or his
mom came out or something and you
know, yeah, it was just from
there and nothing's really changed.
Nothing's really changed since then.
It's It's pretty amazing your academy
that you've had together. Looking back at

(22:19):
that now, a man that you've just
met, as you mentioned before,
you're seven and he's 14. HmmIt's pretty
incredible to think what you've done
together and how the success you've had
with Tanasi as well, Tanasi
Kokonakis. Well the success there,
the the accolades belong all there to
Todd. Why is that? Well
Todd did all the work. I

(22:39):
did bits and pieces. What do you mean by
that though because... Todd
basically, you know, I think,
I'm not sure exactly the age that he met
Tanasi at but yeah Todd did, you
know, 95% ofthe work with Finasi
and he did a remarkable job. Done
something that basically not not many
people have ever done in the world.
That's a humble thing for you to say
though when you're involved. It's not

(23:00):
humble, it's very true. So what was
your involvement then? Well, I worked
with him, I did bits and pieces. I I
was a big drinker at the time,
so I was very unreliable. But I'd you
know do bits and pieces here and
there, but it was very well
understood that like I wasn't the
right person to be investing a
future. You knowAnd that was at a very

(23:22):
young age. And then, you know, as
he got older, I did bits and pieces
there. But I mean, Todd's
quarterbacked a lot of Thanasi's career.
It's It's quite an incredible story. I
think you cut yourself short a little bit
there with your involvement, mate.
So, just keeping with the backyard
Legends Bevo theme, Todd. Have
you had Tom Langman over for a Barbie to

(23:42):
say thanks? Yeah, all the time. He
comes over, he steals all the
chicken. And then Lee's,
yeah. and doesn't leave anything for
anyone else. Yeah, very typical.
Your book Smash is due to come out soon.
Can't wait to have a read of that. Just
give us a quick plug and tell us more
about it. Pretty well everything that
I've said here. Again, I'm not much

(24:03):
of a promotion person. I just wrote this
thing and I didn't
really have much plans of it being a book
or whatever and now that I've written
it, I don't really know what to do
with it and people say, Well, you
got to promote. I'm not apromotional
person, but here I am promoting my
book. So yeah, pretty well everything
that I've spoken about in, if if you
want to get a peek behind the so-called

(24:26):
gentlemen's game, still yet to know
those gentlemen, but if you want to
have a look. Todd Lehman. Yeah, Yeah
real gentlemen, that guy is. But like
if you want to have a real look and not
the sort of media coverage hype,
sensationalized, glossy thing that
everyone tries to portray the sport
as, if you want to know what you're
really sort of getting and looking at,

(24:47):
Maybe have a look at that. It's not It's
not for everyone like don't shoot the
messenger. I'm not. No, I can't wait
for you know what I mean. But yeah like
again because I think this it's sports
very misrepresented by the media
and and stuff like that and Up
to you, have a look if you want. You
mentioned beforeabout the the

(25:09):
situation between the Australian Open and
Adelaide International being so different
and and not getting a chance to to really
be involved. Explain a bit more about
that. Umm It's not that I wasn't
involved, it was like so we've gone
from I think that was around COVID time
as well and there was a couple of
tournaments here in Adelaide if I
remember correctly. I think Thanasi made
the semi of the first one and then I

(25:30):
think he was sort of touch and go whether
he was going to play the second one and
think we sort of somehow tried to
convince him to play. And
being that it was in Adelaide and it was
our hometown,
yeah, I felt like everyone there
involved in the process sort of played a
part in, you know, getting

(25:51):
that, his first maiden ATP title sort
of thing. Yeah. And it was an emotional
thing. And it was a real
good story really for both,
especially for Todd and Thanasi.
And you as well. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. But I'm like the third wheel in a
way, you know what I mean? I'm I'm
sort of the third wheel of the romance

(26:11):
thing. And And then very quickly,
because it was a quick turnaround before
he played Australian Open. I thought the
next day it was ridiculous. Yeah. And
then he he had, I think he got a wild
card and he played the next day or
whatever. Yeah, I think that was the
first round, sort of tough loss. And
then, you know, we were just
assuming that, you know, he would
sort of be out of the doubles within the
first couple of rounds because that's
usually what happens. It's. especially

(26:31):
after the tournament, the big week
they'd had in Adelaide, we sort of
just felt like it probably would be would
be leaving soon. And then they
won it, um which was
sort of surprising and shocking and weird
and controversial and... Yeah,
and it was...
Those guys have so much gain

(26:54):
that they needed very little outside
help, you know, because they
just, it's not like...
They needed expert coaching to be able to
go out there and win it. These guys
really want it off their own. Here's why
you're talking before about being a
cheerleader. Yeah, it sort of felt
like a huge entourage of people, you
know, because when Nick's around,

(27:14):
Thanasi's around, there's a lot of
hangers on. There's a lot of people there
and and because we weren't really doing
much, it sort of felt like, even
though they were coaches, it sort of
felt like to me, sort of a hanger on
as well. And yeah, it was weird,
you know, it was aIt
was a it was a very, very strange
experience. It was a very, very
strange experience. I think that's a very

(27:35):
interesting way to finish off.
Thanks, Todd. Todd Lay, thanks so
much for coming on back out Legends of
Devo, mate. It was a really
interesting chat, and all the very
best with with Smash. Can't wait to have
a reef. Thanks.