15: Mortgage Insurance Isn’t a Fee, It’s the Pathway to Homeownership with Sagen's Ivy Budisavljevic
February 12, 2025 • 33 mins
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, Bekim is joined by Ivy Budisavljevic. Ivy is the Vice-President of Business Development at Sagen, Canada’s largest private mortgage insurance provider. Over the past 15 years, Ivy has worked her way up from summer intern to Sagen’s Sales Leadership Team, and is now responsible for developing strategies that will drive prudent market share growth and develop a sustainable competitive advantage. In addition, Ivy is also the Secretary on the Executive Board of Directors at Mortgage Professionals Canada (MPC), a non-profit association representing mortgage brokers and agents, as well as banks, lenders, insurers, and service providers. MPC makes up the largest mortgage network across the country, and serves as the industry voice with government, media and regulators.
Ivy is here to discuss: → Ivy's journey in the mortgage industry and climbing the corporate ladder, becoming an advocate at MPC, and how you can make your voice heard with MPC to push the industry forward. → The role of Sagen in mortgage insurance and what insurers do, the impact of mortgage insurance on home affordability, and how the recent regulatory changes will help consumers. → Why you should be bridging the knowledge gap with consumers, and how to create opportunities with strong relationship building.
Sagen Website: www.sagen.ca
Sagen Instagram: @sagencanada
Sagen LinkedIn: @Sagen
Mortgage Professionals Canada Website: www.mortgageproscan.ca
Mortgage Professionals Canada Instagram: @mortgageproscan
Mortgage Professionals Canada LinkedIn: @MortgageProfessionalsCanada
Ivy Budisavljevic's Instagram: @ivyfromsagen
Ivy Budisavljevic's LinkedIn: @IvyBudisavljevic
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank you for listening to theLending Thoughts podcast sponsored
(00:02):
by Rocket Pro.
Today, I'm lucky to have Ivy
Budasavyevich from Sajin andMortgage Professionals Canada here
with me.
We're going to be diving into a
conversation about her role inSajin, the role that Sajin plays
in the mortgage industry.
And it's really, really important
to understand what it is insurersdo.
So you're not going to want tomiss that.
The other part of what Sajin doesis make sure that All these new
(00:24):
changes are implemented and we'vegot a bunch of those changes in
2024 and early 2025 that will helpmortgage brokers run a better
business.
You won't want to miss that.
And then on the other side, theMortgage Professionals Canada and
the advocacy that that group doesto help push this industry
forward.
Some really cool conversations
around that.
So listen in today.
You're going to want to hear fromIvy.
(00:45):
Thank you so much.
All right, Ivy, thank you for
joining me today.
Thanks for having me, Bekem.
I'm so excited to be here withyou.
Absolutely.
I love our friendship and
partnership that we have.
So excited to have this
conversation.
I know a little bit about you, but
(01:07):
I would love for folks to knowmore about you.
So can you tell us your life storyin 60 seconds or less, please?
Absolutely.
So I'm a millennial outlier.
in that I have worked for onecompany for 15 years.
I started at Sajun as a summerstudent, a summer intern in May of
2010.
And I look back at that time, and
I'm just forever grateful for theknowledge transfer and the
(01:29):
mentorship from so many industryveterans who gave me that time
back in that summer of 2010 toreally teach me this industry.
And that's really shaped a lotabout how I approach.
my work today and who I am as aprofessional.
Right now, I lead the head officeexecutive level relationships with
a portfolio of Sagen's approvedlenders, Rocket Mortgage being one
of them.
And my mandate at a very broad
(01:49):
level is to drive our market shareforward and really keep Sagen's
market share position in numberone.
In addition to Sagen, in some ofmy spare time, I also serve on the
Mortgage Professionals CanadaBoard of Directors.
And that association, the mandateis really to help unify all key
parties who assist in the homepurchase transaction for a home
buyer.
unify them, gather them together,
advocate for what needs to happenin the industry and make sure that
(02:14):
there's a central voice for all ofthose key players and stakeholders
to be educated and to help supportthat ultimate home buying
experience for that customer.
Who I am as a person, I mean, I
think I'm fast paced and assertivelike any good salesperson is, but
I also see myself as being very,very empathetic, very, very people
focused.
And that ability to collaborate
(02:34):
and see other people's point ofview is really how I've helped
shape my sales strategy and how Iapproach my relationships with my
customers.
So that's me in a nutshell.
There's a lot there.
I want to go back even further,
though.
So where'd you grow up?
What shaped the Ivy that existstoday?
And for everyone at home, you'vedone this for me a few times.
(02:55):
Pronounce your last name becausethere's...
Got to be people in this industrythat know you that have like
hidden from saying your last nameall these years.
I like that I'm Ivy becausethere's not very many Ivys.
So it's almost like the share ofthe mortgage industry.
You can just call me Ivy.
me Ivy.
But phonetically, it's BudasavYuvich.
So Ivy Budasav Yuvich.
We'll quiz you at the end.
Yes.
It's lots of consonants crammed
together.
Absolutely.
It's tough.
(03:15):
But you know what?
For anybody who's just not sure,Ivy is just fine.
Well, that's perfect.
Cause then you could just tell
them just Ivy and that works.
It's like your name too.
like your name too.
Right.
That's why we get along so well.
That's right.
That's right.
(03:36):
I'm the only became in the
mortgage industry in Canada.
I think someone's going to put me
wrong on that, but yeah.
So take us back.
Tell us about childhood.
Like what shaped the Ivy that we
know now?Yeah.
So I'm a millennial.
I'm an oldest daughter.
I have a younger sister and I'm aLeo.
So if we put those thingstogether.
You have a very protective oldersister in me.
Absolutely.
Very fierce and passionate about
what I do.
(03:56):
You know, old as children, I
think, you know, you were wantingto prove that you were doing all
the right things and setting goodexamples for your young siblings.
So I think that really shaped whoI am as a person.
I mean, I always had really,really good examples growing up.
I mean, I'm very close with myfamily, very close with my mom and
(04:17):
dad.
And they set.
amazing examples for me, just fromeven a work ethic perspective,
right?I mean, both of them, they met
when they were very young.
They've always worked extremely,
extremely hard for everything thatthey have.
And, you know, my sister and Iwere really, really lucky to grow
up here in Oakville and have areally, really tight family
relationship where family isalways number one.
And as passionate and excited aswe are about our careers, I think,
(04:40):
you know, we always have toremember that, you know, you have
to prioritize that time withfamily.
And whether that's, you know,whether you're married or you're
not, you have kids or you don't,you know, whoever is close to you,
I think that's how I shape myapproach to Chem.
And that's really who I am as aperson.
If someone asks me, you know, whatare your values?
You know, family always.
(05:01):
And then, you know, work ethic,
right?Be passionate, be excited, and
don't be afraid to get your handsdirty and ask questions and learn
and put yourself out there to be abetter person.
Love that.
Totally makes sense.
You got big sister vibes.
You're just getting to know you
now.
It's adding up for me.
So why sales?You said you started at Sagen as
an intern.
And now you're leading executive
accounts.
Sajan does a lot of different
(05:21):
things along the mortgage spectrumand in the insurance space.
So how did you land yourself insales?
Is it a mentor relationship whobrought you up?
And what's that journey been likefor you?
I started in underwriting, funnyenough.
So that's where I got my rootswith the business.
And thank goodness I started therebecause...
Really understanding, you know,how does our business make money?
You know, that transactional pieceof the role was something that I
(05:45):
do nothing about.
And that's really ground level of
our business.
And to me, that was where I got my
first exposure to our customersand our customers being lenders
across Canada.
I worked in our call center.
So we were taking inbound callsfrom lenders, mortgage brokers,
professionals all across Canada.
And this was 2010.
So, you know, volumes andregulations were night and day to
(06:05):
where they are today.
So those were consistently crazy
busy days where it was springmarket every day.
And that's really where I got thefirst taste of, you know, I love
what I'm doing in underwriting.
This client interaction, this
customer interaction, like that'swhat gets me fired up.
That's what gets me excited.
And I didn't know what that would
look like at Sage and either or inany other organization.
(06:29):
I just, you know, as you grow andevolve as a professional, you get
a better understanding of whatfills your bucket.
And for me, it was that customerinteraction.
Did underwriting, you know, forabout five or six years within our
underwriting department.
And then an opportunity came up to
join our regional sales team.
(06:51):
So to look after all of our lender
accounts in the GTA North.
So downtown Toronto, kind of up
all the way to King City.
And I remember being really
nervous to apply for that job.
Like I remember having a little
bit of like, do I know what I'mdoing?
Can I make this change?I'm kind of comfortable doing what
I'm doing right now.
But I remember talking to a few
(07:12):
mentors within our business andalso mentors outside of our
business that, you know.
The train's passing by and you got
to hop on, like you got to trysomething new.
And you already know that this issomething that's making you happy
is this client engagement.
Right.
So go for it.
Right.
I was young.
You know, there was no reason for
me not to do it.
So I do remember that day, like
(07:34):
submitting my application for thataccount manager role.
And I really look at that as kindof where it all started for me
from sales.
So you hovered over the submit
button for a little while, despitethe fact you knew it was the right
thing to do.
Yeah, absolutely.
But those are the leaps you haveto take, right?
We all have those moments that weremember.
And thank God I did it, really.
(07:56):
I mean, I don't know what I would
be doing today if I hadn'tsubmitted that job application.
Yeah, what a great story.
So for those who maybe aren't too
familiar or for those who wantfurther clarification, what role
does Sagen play in the mortgageindustry?
And maybe to ask it simply.
Who is Sajin and what does Sajin
do?Great question.
So glad you asked.
So we are a default mortgage
insurer.
So Sajin is part of the home
buying process in collaborationwith the lender.
(08:17):
So really in a nutshell, whathappens is if you have a customer,
they're purchasing a home andthey're putting less than a 20 %
down payment on that home, thegovernment of Canada requires that
loan to have default mortgageinsurance.
And really what that does is ourform of insurance protects.
the lender in any instance ofdefault mortgage default so for
whatever reason the borrower can'tpay their mortgage the bank or the
(08:38):
financial institution the lenderthey will be protected against the
default on that loan So reallywhere we fall into the process,
Bekem, is, you know, lenders willoriginate a deal, an application,
and once it's approved at thelender, then if it's a less than a
20 % down payment, they'll knowthey'll need to submit it over to
Sajin for us to approve from aninsurance perspective.
(08:58):
So we kind of fall into theprocess right after lender
approval prior to funding.
Gotcha.
So if I'm a mortgage broker, howdo I... you know, think about like
the fit in of Sajun?Is this something that I need to
think about often?Do I, as a mortgage broker work
with Sajun or is that somethingthat only the lender is going to
(09:22):
work on with?So mortgage brokers are definitely
an important piece of how wemanage our business.
I would say from a file submissionstandpoint, the submissions are
coming directly from the lender,but from a business networking,
business development, industrypartner perspective.
We're supporting mortgage brokersout in the field every single day.
You know, examples of that are,you know, providing things like
training and education becomesomething that I think mortgage
(09:43):
brokers can always benefit from.
You know, if we partner with a
lender who wants to host atraining day with a room full of
mortgage brokers, Sajin will oftenbe in that room and be a part of
that conversation to, number one,educate on, you know, who we are
and where we fall in that homebuying process, but also to
provide a different perspective onthe first time.
(10:04):
homebuyer.
What we know about the first time
homebuyer is extremely advanced.
You know, we have 30 years of data
on first time homebuyers inCanada.
So from how we support mortgagebrokers, it's really in that
training and education piece, asopposed to that transactional kind
of file to file piece.
You know, You know, For sure.
So if Sajun didn't exist, whatwould change in the market?
(10:28):
Or if mortgage insurers didn'texist, what would change in the
market to be more specific?Because I feel like I've had this
conversation many times over theyears when people, they'll see it
as a cost, right?Like borrowers, especially, this
is a cost.
And I'm saying like, you know,
well, if it weren't for this cost,you could not buy a home.
There was a time in which if youdidn't have X percentage of down
(10:48):
payment or these providers werenon -existent, you couldn't buy a
home or you have gotten anabsolutely absurd interest rate in
order to buy.
a property like this.
So I don't want to stir yourthunder here, but you know, if it
weren't for the mortgage insurers,like what would the world look
like?Oh gosh.
Well, you know what?I think about the home buyer
always because they're so impactedby all of the regulations and
(11:11):
framework that our industrybecame.
I mean, Ultimately, getting intothe market sooner is what all
first time homebuyers aremotivated by.
And that's really where themortgage insurers come into play.
That ability to have a lower downpayment gets you into the market
sooner.
And, you know, most markets across
Canada are experiencing a veryhigh rate of home price
appreciation.
Right.
So the longer you wait, if you hadto be forced to save a 20 percent
(11:34):
down payment.
That could potentially negatively
impact, you know, where you wantto buy and what you want to buy.
And I think you touched on areally good point, too, and that's
the interest rate.
Right.
I mean, insured mortgagestypically have a preferred lower
interest rate as opposed to anuninsured loan.
So there's definitely, you know,gains to be had from that
perspective for the first timehome buyer.
I think about, you know.
(11:54):
The generation who's thinking
about homeownership now, I mean,millennials are tapped out at
homeownership.
I think, you know, homeownership
rates across Canada are about 60percent and millennials are there.
I think about the up and cominggeneration, you know, your kids
become right.
I mean, they'll need to get into
the market as well at some point,too.
So it's those types of things thatwe have to think about is that
(12:18):
homeownership is so ingrained inthe Canadian way of life.
And it's a fabric of who we are.
We have one of the highest
homeownership rates in the world.
So Canadians want to get into
homes as soon as they can.
And ultimately, that's really
where mortgage insurers give thatopportunity to homebuyers.
Yeah, that's well said.
So when you think about the way
that you guys fit into this, I'mreflecting on some of the changes
(12:41):
in 2024.
I mean, there was a whole bunch of
stuff that came down the pipeline.
It usually hit the insurers first
and the insurers work with thelenders and the lenders go and
administer those products out tobrokers.
Maybe just as a bit of a recap,and I know it already seems like a
distant memory, but what were someof those changes that took place
(13:03):
in 2024?How did Sage Inn and the mortgage
insurance industry fit into thatsuch that we can then go out and
we can spur homeownership forclients?
Big changes from a regulatoryperspective, for sure.
So when we talk about mortgageamortization for an insured
mortgage, it increased from amaximum of 25 years to 30 years.
And that's a big deal when itcomes to a first time homebuyer
who's looking at qualifying forthe most mortgage that they can.
That extra five years, it reallywas a step in the right direction
(13:25):
to helping them, you know, getinto homeownership.
We used to be able to do that inour industry.
In fact, a couple of years into mytenure at Sagen, I remember them
kind of that day that it cut backto 25 years and it almost felt
like a step backwards for thehomebuyer.
So really, really positive to see,you know, granted it's, you know,
all these years later.
that the government realized, you
(13:46):
know, 30 year amortization for afirst time home buyer, it just
makes sense.
So that was implemented late last
year.
Really good to see that momentum
from a government relationsregulatory perspective.
We have a big change beingimplemented in that insured
refinances are now back in thegame and back in the market.
So a borrower who owns a home canrefinance now up to 90 % of that
home's value with the funds fromthe equity takeout to be used to
(14:08):
build a secondary suite.
So that's a big game changer.
We used to offer insuredrefinances kind of back in the
day.
I'll use that phrasing.
And, you know, it's nice to seethat option come back because
that's helping to address thehousing supply issue, creating
more units and also to help withaffordability for folks who, you
know, maybe they've always wantedto build that basement suite and
they just haven't had the abilityto do so.
Now you can take out and reallyutilize the equity in your home to
(14:30):
give yourself that opportunity fora little bit of extra income every
month to help qualify yourmortgage.
So those are two big ones.
The government moves slowly when
it comes to changing mortgageregulations.
And it was really, really good tohave a win late last year, early
this year on those two topicsspecifically.
Yeah, it was interesting becausethe government moved so slowly,
but for a short period of time, itfelt like these things were coming
(14:54):
swiftly and not a lot of peoplewere in the know that they would
be coming.
And the expectation was that they
would be implemented ratherquickly.
So you go from a very status quomindset.
thinking that, hey, you know,here's sort of like some of the
top things that we would want tosee.
And now they all happen veryquickly in short succession with
(15:15):
seemingly not too manyconversations with, you know, a
lot of people in the industry inadvance.
I remember our teams havingconversations like, when is this
happening?What does it mean?
And you guys were like, we're justhearing this news too, but we're
all over it.
We're going to spur an action.
We'll find a way because, youknow, it's like, then you're in
the spot.
You got to update your
underwriting systems and softwareand you've got to change a bunch
of.
policies and procedures and
(15:35):
underwriting standards.
And then that's got to cascade
down through the lenders.
And then the lenders have to bring
that to the brokers who bring itto the market.
Ultimately, it is a reallyinteresting sort of dynamic.
And 2024 wasn't without events and2025 right out of the gate.
Here we go.
More changes.
And given what's going on in someof the political world right now,
(15:56):
there could be even more coming.
So just telling you, don't get
comfortable pretty much.
Absolutely.
But that's the best thing aboutour industry, right?
I mean, every day is different.
You know, it keeps us on our toes
and it keeps us fresh andrelevant.
And I think, you know, if anythingthat's a net new opportunity for,
you know, a mortgage broker ormortgage lender to capture
business from a new client,there's a lot to be excited about
(16:16):
on that front for sure.
Yeah.
Agreed.
So you mentioned the Board of
Mortgage Professionals Canada aswell.
And I want to talk to you aboutthat because some of those changes
that happened and some of thethings that our mortgage broker
community and lending community isasking for today, a lot of that
comes through the voices of...
people like Mortgage Professionals
Canada and the work that you dothere.
So can you explain a little bitmore about what it means to be on
the board of MortgageProfessionals Canada and what are
(16:39):
some of the things that you guysare working on right now for 2025
and beyond?Absolutely.
It's a well -timed questionbecause we were reflecting as a
board about all of these advocacywins when it comes to the
amortization, you know, theinsured refinancing as an example.
And so what's next?We've been advocating for those
changes for a decade.
So we have Ottawa's ear.
They are very, very generous withtheir time when it comes to
hearing from MPC about what needsto happen to drive positive change
(17:04):
for Canadians in this industry.
So we're strategizing in the next
few weeks about really honing inon what are our top... choices for
advocacy, kind of looking forwardinto the future.
And how that's done, how itrelates back to what we do as a
board is consulting with theindustry.
I think you kind of mentioned thatwhen we were talking about the
government changes became just howimportant that consulting piece is
when it comes to Number one, youknow, prioritizing what changes we
(17:25):
think should be made for theindustry, but also how those
changes should be rolled out andwhat's the impact and who needs to
be involved.
So that's a really big piece of
what MPC does is, you know,bringing the right people
together.
Communication with all of those
key industry stakeholders issomething that we prioritize.
We have regional what we calladvisory councils.
(17:46):
who meet quarterly to talk about,well, what is happening in your
markets?You know, what do we need to
change?What's working?
What's not?And then ultimately we bring that
feedback, you know, to ourquarterly board meetings to, you
know, see where we can reallydrive some change.
So I would describe it as a verycommunicative, very collaborative
and very consultative board thatultimately is just focused on all
key stakeholders, right?So. lenders, brokers, realtors,
homeowners, anyone who's involvedin the process, we're interested
(18:08):
in hearing their views and theiropinions about what can be better.
in Yeah.
So if I'm a mortgage broker or
part of a mortgage lender and Iwant my voice to be heard, how do
I do that?You know, I think people who are
boots on the ground are best totell us what they're feeling.
(18:28):
seeing, hearing from consumers.
I really do think consumer
behavior and consumer sentiment inmany ways should be a big driver
of it.
Shouldn't be the only driver
because there's the other part,which is also protecting the
taxpayer, protecting the lender,protecting the insurer, protecting
government instability for theoverall housing market.
But how can we hear from people inthe industry?
(18:49):
How can they make sure that theirvoice is heard as a part of this
process?Reach out to your board members.
I mean, that's number one.
We want to hear from the industry.
So that's where we have someopportunity, right?
I mean, MPC is out present atindustry events.
MPC hosts their own regionalsymposiums where we invite
mortgage lenders, mortgage brokersto come spend some time with us,
have an education day.
(19:10):
So I think attending those events
is number one.
If you're a broker who really
wants to have the ear of somebodyfrom MPC, but also just call us.
Right.
I mean, I think that's the spirit
of the board is, you know, what'son your mind and what can we help
clarify for you and what can wehelp drive forward for you?
It's a big industry.
You know, not everybody.
(19:32):
can, you know, get the ear of, youknow, everybody they want to at a
big event, like say the NBCNational Conference, but, you
know, come to those regionalevents, come to the online
webinars, or just pick up thephone and call us.
And I have every confidence thatthe board members who I work with
would give that same sentiment isthat, you know, we really want to
(19:53):
hear from the industry.
we Yeah, there's something to be
said for having a unified voice,right?
Because not everyone's gonna, youknow, knock down doors in Ottawa.
to be heard.
But if we can all, or there's tens
of thousands of us out there inthis industry across the country
here in Canada, if we cancentralize some of the asks, I
think that would be helpfulbecause really what we're trying
(20:17):
to do, and the reason why some ofthese changes are coming down as I
think about it, housing is one ofthe major things that we're trying
to solve for as a country rightnow.
It may be the most important thingalongside productivity that we are
trying to solve for as a countryright now.
And people are thinking about thisgenerationally.
As soon as I go to anywhere, afamily -related event, et cetera,
(20:39):
and I start talking to peopleabout what I do, it's like, oh,
will my kids be able to buy ahome?
Will their kids be able to buy ahome?
Or will I ever be able to buy ahome?
People don't understand all thepush and pull of our industry and
everything that goes in.
All they know is that it keeps
getting more expensive.
So they may not have the exact
solution.
But they know that housing in our
(21:00):
country has become such a reallyhot button issue.
And I think for too long, you gotpushed to the side.
And I do think that, you know, ifwe can collect our voices and get
the right people around the tablewho are action oriented and
actually acting on that, that'sthe other half of this equation is
like actually doing somethingabout it.
And I won't be on a soapbox here,but I do feel like for too long,
we knew that there were someunderlying problems.
(21:21):
They just got left to the side.
And I'm happy to see that some
changes are being made.
And I'm happy to see that some of
those are a direct result ofvoices getting around a table to
let you guys know at MPC and inother places, what needs to be
said, what things need to change,and then actually going out and
doing something about it.
(21:41):
So kudos to you and the work
you're doing.
If I'm a mortgage broker, Ivy, and
I'm thinking about some of thesenew policy changes and how to take
advantage and how to implementthem into my business, are there
any things that... you're thinkingabout or seeing people
successfully implement with theirown end consumer, the customer?
I mean, I think about that endconsumer and really the knowledge
gap.
I think that our industry does a
really good job in providing theresources for training and
(22:03):
education, but how it filters downto the consumer, I think we have
some opportunity there.
And a story to share on that is I
was on a plane late last year andthis gentleman sat beside me and
we were talking and he wasattending a professional
conference outside of ourindustry.
And when he found out that I wasin the mortgage industry, similar
to how you said your friends andfamily kind of have that immediate
question to you, became when westarted talking about him and he
(22:26):
was in a variable rate mortgage.
And this was a very professional,
successful individual who reallyhad a limited knowledge of the
mortgage that he himself held, whohis mortgage was even with.
I don't even think he could answerthat question when it was up for
renewal, his monthly payments.
There was a big gap there in terms
of what he knew.
about the process and about his
(22:47):
own mortgage product that he held.
So, I mean, that was surprising to
me, but it just reaffirms the workthat we need to do as mortgage
professionals to make sure that,you know, in this complex world of
Canadian mortgages, is the endconsumer completely comfortable
and knowledgeable on the choicesthat are being presented to them?
Mortgage brokers do an excellentjob in, you know, helping the end
consumer get into the rightmortgage.
But how do we stay connected withthem during the life of that
(23:11):
mortgage, right?This gentleman was coming up for
renewal.
He goes, I know it's soon, but I
don't really know when and I don'tknow how and who do I call?
And, you know, should I just go tomy branch and talk to somebody
there?The guidance throughout the life
of that mortgage, I think, isreally what we need to hone in on
when it comes to, you know, reallyjust number one, you know,
(23:33):
embracing that customerrelationship that you have, but
also making sure that thatconsumer doesn't feel lost in
these changes.
We've sat and talked about
regulatory changes, and we're inthe industry, and it can be
complicated, but imagine what itsounds like for somebody who's an
end consumer.
for somebody who's an end
consumer.
Yeah, I mean, you talked about two
of the changes, which is one justextending to third -year
amortizations, you know, to rentalsuite and going up to 90 % loan to
(23:56):
value.
What an awesome opportunity to
just reconnect with every singleclient you've done a mortgage for
in the past to just say, you know,Hey, it's been three years since
we did your last mortgage.
I just want to see how things are
going.
And maybe it gets uncovered
through that conversation that thepayment's tight month to month
right now, because the cost ofgoods and everything have gone up
and interest rates everywhere havegone up, not just in mortgage.
(24:18):
it gives you an opportunity tosay, okay, well, you know, we put
you in a 25 year amortization.
You've got 22 years left on that.
And like, look, I don't want youto pay significantly more interest
over the life of your mortgage,but I do want you to pay less
interest and have more freecashflow month to month.
We may want to consider actuallylooking at this 30 year
(24:42):
amortization so that you canafford it.
Once you get a few things clearedup.
We'll get you back to paying extraon the mortgage, get it paid down
as fast as you were planning toanyways.
But let's talk about that.
Or maybe it's, I was looking at
your property.
You've got some pretty good square
(25:02):
footage there.
And I know you said, you know,
your kids have grown up now.
Like, are they moving out?
Oh, no, no, they can't affordtheir own place.
Well, what if we did a rentalsuite?
Have you ever thought about that?And like, boom, a whole new
conversation, a whole new mortgageproduct.
And you're serving your borrowers.
You're serving the end consumer.
You're teaching them through that,right?
Like you're not going to calleverybody and tell them like,
here's all the new mortgagechanges.
(25:24):
You know, like sometimes we dothat as mortgage folks.
Like we create one tile on oursocial media and we post it.
We're like new changes up to 90 %loan to value.
And the phone doesn't ring.
Not surprisingly, right?
You actually have to get down tothe individual situation and say,
how are you doing?How is life?
How does your mortgage suit you?Is it still the right suit for you
in this current stature?Has things changed in your life
(25:46):
over three, five, 10 years?It is not something that you can
set and forget.
So that is really great advice,
truthfully, for mortgage brokersand a great opportunity to touch
base with all these changes.
And I'm sure there's more to come.
I'm confident there are more tocome here that will spur new
conversations with our consumers.
So you've been at Sage in 15
years?You're passionate about this
industry.
I know that.
I mean, you give up your own sparetime that you're now with friends
(26:07):
and family to also serve thisindustry and the board of MPC.
What are you hoping your impact ison this?
industry and what gets you excitedto get out of bed every day and
get after it still?Obviously, It is not you know, the
mentorship piece has been really,really critical in my upbringing
in this industry.
Like I said, I entered as a summer
student, an intern.
I was given an opportunity to
learn an industry that I knewnothing about.
(26:28):
And I will never forget the folkswho were generous with their time.
an folks who were generous withtheir time.
with me in answering questions andreally giving me that space to
learn without any judgment andwith follow up, you know, to check
in on how I was doing and, youknow, give me that time to really
ensure that I was learning what Ineeded to learn.
So that's really shaped who I amtoday, how I approach my work
today and what I hope for for thefuture is, you know, continuing to
(26:49):
be advocates for.
Some are students, some are
interns, folks who are new toindustry looking for a change
because, you know, you can teachtechnical skills all day long.
If you find somebody with passionand with drive and with work ethic
who wants to be committed tolearning something new, then I
think they can do really, reallygreat things.
So that's how I will alwaysapproach, you know, the hiring or
(27:09):
support of anybody in thisindustry.
And you also never know wheresomeone's going to end up.
Right.
I mean, in my day to day with my
sales strategy today, I mean, Itry to get to know everybody in
the organization.
You know, technically I own
executive level relationships, butI think it's equally important to
get to know everybody at alllevels because you never know what
(27:30):
kind of support you can provide tothem.
You also never know who's going tobe a director or a VP or the next
SVP or CEO.
And if people stick around a
business as long as I have withSajun, I mean, those types of.
you know, new opportunitiespresent themselves.
So when I look forward, I thinkthat's what my vision is.
That's how I want to approach, youknow, whatever type of leadership
(27:51):
role I'm in, giving time, givingspace, giving those opportunities.
That would be a great impact.
would be a great impact.
And I'm going to actually give youa story to attest to something
that you just said, which is like,get to know everybody inside of
the organization and foster thoserelationships.
Cause I think it's great advice,not just for sales, but in life.
Last time you came to town, Ithink it was the last time you and
(28:13):
I were having lunch that day.
We're going to go for lunch.
And I had messaged a colleague ofmine and I said, Hey, I'm going to
go for lunch with Ivy.
If you want to join, feel free.
And he's like, it's cool.
I already went for breakfast with
Ivy.
I was like, Oh, okay.
So you went for breakfast.
Isn't she really good at what she
does to build that relationshipand to know to do that.
(28:36):
And then I'm at lunch with you.
And I said, Hey, you should take
some time to really get to know.
Tori because she's working with
our mortgage brokers and all thisother stuff.
And you're like, I had dinner withTori last night already.
And I'm like, Oh, of course youdid.
Right.
So I didn't even know, but there
you are, you're fostering theserelationships all throughout our
organization and buildingrelationships that way.
(28:56):
And there's just so much to learnfrom that.
You never know who's out theredeeply passionate, making an
impact or taking the time forother people and helping them
grow.
And then helping, you know, each
other grow is just so.
so important and giving back that
way is so cool.
I want to give you one more
opportunity just to maybe shoutout because you've repeatedly gone
back to the fact that you've hadgreat mentors inside of those
(29:18):
walls and you've been there for 15years.
Who are some of those peopleinside the walls of Sajun, you
know, by name who maybe peopledon't know, but are real major
drivers in this industry thatmaybe we should.
think about as some of the peoplemaking the biggest impact out
there right now?Well, I mean, I've got to give a
shout out to Jim Spitali, our COO.
When he joined our business 10
(29:39):
years ago, he was director ofunderwriting and I reported to him
when I was an underwriter.
So Jim and I have grown up in this
business in a really positive way.
So I've got to give him a shout
out.
You know, we've kind of, you know,
learned the ropes of operations,underwriting and sales together
for sure.
I also, I know I showed out some
(29:59):
of our tenured underwriting team.
I mean, I think about folks who,
like you said, you know, ourexternal customers may not know.
You know, we've got a gentlemannamed Andy Posgate, who's our
technical underwriting leader whohired me into this business, you
know, helped me learn the ropes.
I also think about, you know, Mary
and Anita and Jeff, who are someof our tenured underwriters who
have been around our business for25 plus years, which is
incredible.
And they're the ones who took
time.
They really took time and they're
still working hard every day,servicing our customers, getting
(30:21):
to know our customers and makingsure they're providing really the
best customer experience.
So they are the gold standard for
what an underwriter and aprofessional in our industry
should be.
That's really cool.
Did not know Jim had anunderwriting background.
I took him as just like a careersalesperson.
So that's so awesome that you gotto do that with him and then
follow in that path because youguys.
are both amazing.
So very cool.
Thank you.
Well, thank you for joining me,
Ivy.
It's been a fantastic
conversation.
I know more about you and
(30:42):
hopefully everyone gets to knowmore about you, but yeah, mortgage
Ivy, the one and only in ourindustry.
Thank you for making such a greatimpact.
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
It's been a real pleasure.
So appreciate the conversation.
Thank you for listening to theLending Thoughts podcast sponsored
(00:02):
by Rocket Pro.
Today, I'm lucky to have Ivy
Budasavyevich from Sajin andMortgage Professionals Canada here
with me.
We're going to be diving into a
conversation about her role inSajin, the role that Sajin plays
in the mortgage industry.
And it's really, really important
to understand what it is insurersdo.
So you're not going to want tomiss that.
The other part of what Sajin doesis make sure that All these new
(00:24):
changes are implemented and we'vegot a bunch of those changes in
2024 and early 2025 that will helpmortgage brokers run a better
business.
You won't want to miss that.
And then on the other side, theMortgage Professionals Canada and
the advocacy that that group doesto help push this industry
forward.
Some really cool conversations
around that.
So listen in today.
You're going to want to hear fromIvy.
(00:45):
Thank you so much.
All right, Ivy, thank you for
joining me today.
Thanks for having me, Bekem.
I'm so excited to be here withyou.
Absolutely.
I love our friendship and
partnership that we have.
So excited to have this
conversation.
I know a little bit about you, but
(01:07):
I would love for folks to knowmore about you.
So can you tell us your life storyin 60 seconds or less, please?
Absolutely.
So I'm a millennial outlier.
in that I have worked for onecompany for 15 years.
I started at Sajun as a summerstudent, a summer intern in May of
2010.
And I look back at that time, and
I'm just forever grateful for theknowledge transfer and the
(01:29):
mentorship from so many industryveterans who gave me that time
back in that summer of 2010 toreally teach me this industry.
And that's really shaped a lotabout how I approach.
my work today and who I am as aprofessional.
Right now, I lead the head officeexecutive level relationships with
a portfolio of Sagen's approvedlenders, Rocket Mortgage being one
of them.
And my mandate at a very broad
(01:49):
level is to drive our market shareforward and really keep Sagen's
market share position in numberone.
In addition to Sagen, in some ofmy spare time, I also serve on the
Mortgage Professionals CanadaBoard of Directors.
And that association, the mandateis really to help unify all key
parties who assist in the homepurchase transaction for a home
buyer.
unify them, gather them together,
advocate for what needs to happenin the industry and make sure that
(02:14):
there's a central voice for all ofthose key players and stakeholders
to be educated and to help supportthat ultimate home buying
experience for that customer.
Who I am as a person, I mean, I
think I'm fast paced and assertivelike any good salesperson is, but
I also see myself as being very,very empathetic, very, very people
focused.
And that ability to collaborate
(02:34):
and see other people's point ofview is really how I've helped
shape my sales strategy and how Iapproach my relationships with my
customers.
So that's me in a nutshell.
There's a lot there.
I want to go back even further,
though.
So where'd you grow up?
What shaped the Ivy that existstoday?
And for everyone at home, you'vedone this for me a few times.
(02:55):
Pronounce your last name becausethere's...
Got to be people in this industrythat know you that have like
hidden from saying your last nameall these years.
I like that I'm Ivy becausethere's not very many Ivys.
So it's almost like the share ofthe mortgage industry.
You can just call me Ivy.
me Ivy.
But phonetically, it's BudasavYuvich.
So Ivy Budasav Yuvich.
We'll quiz you at the end.
Yes.
It's lots of consonants crammed
together.
Absolutely.
It's tough.
(03:15):
But you know what?
For anybody who's just not sure,Ivy is just fine.
Well, that's perfect.
Cause then you could just tell
them just Ivy and that works.
It's like your name too.
like your name too.
Right.
That's why we get along so well.
That's right.
That's right.
(03:36):
I'm the only became in the
mortgage industry in Canada.
I think someone's going to put me
wrong on that, but yeah.
So take us back.
Tell us about childhood.
Like what shaped the Ivy that we
know now?Yeah.
So I'm a millennial.
I'm an oldest daughter.
I have a younger sister and I'm aLeo.
So if we put those thingstogether.
You have a very protective oldersister in me.
Absolutely.
Very fierce and passionate about
what I do.
(03:56):
You know, old as children, I
think, you know, you were wantingto prove that you were doing all
the right things and setting goodexamples for your young siblings.
So I think that really shaped whoI am as a person.
I mean, I always had really,really good examples growing up.
I mean, I'm very close with myfamily, very close with my mom and
(04:17):
dad.
And they set.
amazing examples for me, just fromeven a work ethic perspective,
right?I mean, both of them, they met
when they were very young.
They've always worked extremely,
extremely hard for everything thatthey have.
And, you know, my sister and Iwere really, really lucky to grow
up here in Oakville and have areally, really tight family
relationship where family isalways number one.
And as passionate and excited aswe are about our careers, I think,
(04:40):
you know, we always have toremember that, you know, you have
to prioritize that time withfamily.
And whether that's, you know,whether you're married or you're
not, you have kids or you don't,you know, whoever is close to you,
I think that's how I shape myapproach to Chem.
And that's really who I am as aperson.
If someone asks me, you know, whatare your values?
You know, family always.
(05:01):
And then, you know, work ethic,
right?Be passionate, be excited, and
don't be afraid to get your handsdirty and ask questions and learn
and put yourself out there to be abetter person.
Love that.
Totally makes sense.
You got big sister vibes.
You're just getting to know you
now.
It's adding up for me.
So why sales?You said you started at Sagen as
an intern.
And now you're leading executive
accounts.
Sajan does a lot of different
(05:21):
things along the mortgage spectrumand in the insurance space.
So how did you land yourself insales?
Is it a mentor relationship whobrought you up?
And what's that journey been likefor you?
I started in underwriting, funnyenough.
So that's where I got my rootswith the business.
And thank goodness I started therebecause...
Really understanding, you know,how does our business make money?
You know, that transactional pieceof the role was something that I
(05:45):
do nothing about.
And that's really ground level of
our business.
And to me, that was where I got my
first exposure to our customersand our customers being lenders
across Canada.
I worked in our call center.
So we were taking inbound callsfrom lenders, mortgage brokers,
professionals all across Canada.
And this was 2010.
So, you know, volumes andregulations were night and day to
(06:05):
where they are today.
So those were consistently crazy
busy days where it was springmarket every day.
And that's really where I got thefirst taste of, you know, I love
what I'm doing in underwriting.
This client interaction, this
customer interaction, like that'swhat gets me fired up.
That's what gets me excited.
And I didn't know what that would
look like at Sage and either or inany other organization.
(06:29):
I just, you know, as you grow andevolve as a professional, you get
a better understanding of whatfills your bucket.
And for me, it was that customerinteraction.
Did underwriting, you know, forabout five or six years within our
underwriting department.
And then an opportunity came up to
join our regional sales team.
(06:51):
So to look after all of our lender
accounts in the GTA North.
So downtown Toronto, kind of up
all the way to King City.
And I remember being really
nervous to apply for that job.
Like I remember having a little
bit of like, do I know what I'mdoing?
Can I make this change?I'm kind of comfortable doing what
I'm doing right now.
But I remember talking to a few
(07:12):
mentors within our business andalso mentors outside of our
business that, you know.
The train's passing by and you got
to hop on, like you got to trysomething new.
And you already know that this issomething that's making you happy
is this client engagement.
Right.
So go for it.
Right.
I was young.
You know, there was no reason for
me not to do it.
So I do remember that day, like
(07:34):
submitting my application for thataccount manager role.
And I really look at that as kindof where it all started for me
from sales.
So you hovered over the submit
button for a little while, despitethe fact you knew it was the right
thing to do.
Yeah, absolutely.
But those are the leaps you haveto take, right?
We all have those moments that weremember.
And thank God I did it, really.
(07:56):
I mean, I don't know what I would
be doing today if I hadn'tsubmitted that job application.
Yeah, what a great story.
So for those who maybe aren't too
familiar or for those who wantfurther clarification, what role
does Sagen play in the mortgageindustry?
And maybe to ask it simply.
Who is Sajin and what does Sajin
do?Great question.
So glad you asked.
So we are a default mortgage
insurer.
So Sajin is part of the home
buying process in collaborationwith the lender.
(08:17):
So really in a nutshell, whathappens is if you have a customer,
they're purchasing a home andthey're putting less than a 20 %
down payment on that home, thegovernment of Canada requires that
loan to have default mortgageinsurance.
And really what that does is ourform of insurance protects.
the lender in any instance ofdefault mortgage default so for
whatever reason the borrower can'tpay their mortgage the bank or the
(08:38):
financial institution the lenderthey will be protected against the
default on that loan So reallywhere we fall into the process,
Bekem, is, you know, lenders willoriginate a deal, an application,
and once it's approved at thelender, then if it's a less than a
20 % down payment, they'll knowthey'll need to submit it over to
Sajin for us to approve from aninsurance perspective.
(08:58):
So we kind of fall into theprocess right after lender
approval prior to funding.
Gotcha.
So if I'm a mortgage broker, howdo I... you know, think about like
the fit in of Sajun?Is this something that I need to
think about often?Do I, as a mortgage broker work
with Sajun or is that somethingthat only the lender is going to
(09:22):
work on with?So mortgage brokers are definitely
an important piece of how wemanage our business.
I would say from a file submissionstandpoint, the submissions are
coming directly from the lender,but from a business networking,
business development, industrypartner perspective.
We're supporting mortgage brokersout in the field every single day.
You know, examples of that are,you know, providing things like
training and education becomesomething that I think mortgage
(09:43):
brokers can always benefit from.
You know, if we partner with a
lender who wants to host atraining day with a room full of
mortgage brokers, Sajin will oftenbe in that room and be a part of
that conversation to, number one,educate on, you know, who we are
and where we fall in that homebuying process, but also to
provide a different perspective onthe first time.
(10:04):
homebuyer.
What we know about the first time
homebuyer is extremely advanced.
You know, we have 30 years of data
on first time homebuyers inCanada.
So from how we support mortgagebrokers, it's really in that
training and education piece, asopposed to that transactional kind
of file to file piece.
You know, You know, For sure.
So if Sajun didn't exist, whatwould change in the market?
(10:28):
Or if mortgage insurers didn'texist, what would change in the
market to be more specific?Because I feel like I've had this
conversation many times over theyears when people, they'll see it
as a cost, right?Like borrowers, especially, this
is a cost.
And I'm saying like, you know,
well, if it weren't for this cost,you could not buy a home.
There was a time in which if youdidn't have X percentage of down
(10:48):
payment or these providers werenon -existent, you couldn't buy a
home or you have gotten anabsolutely absurd interest rate in
order to buy.
a property like this.
So I don't want to stir yourthunder here, but you know, if it
weren't for the mortgage insurers,like what would the world look
like?Oh gosh.
Well, you know what?I think about the home buyer
always because they're so impactedby all of the regulations and
(11:11):
framework that our industrybecame.
I mean, Ultimately, getting intothe market sooner is what all
first time homebuyers aremotivated by.
And that's really where themortgage insurers come into play.
That ability to have a lower downpayment gets you into the market
sooner.
And, you know, most markets across
Canada are experiencing a veryhigh rate of home price
appreciation.
Right.
So the longer you wait, if you hadto be forced to save a 20 percent
(11:34):
down payment.
That could potentially negatively
impact, you know, where you wantto buy and what you want to buy.
And I think you touched on areally good point, too, and that's
the interest rate.
Right.
I mean, insured mortgagestypically have a preferred lower
interest rate as opposed to anuninsured loan.
So there's definitely, you know,gains to be had from that
perspective for the first timehome buyer.
I think about, you know.
(11:54):
The generation who's thinking
about homeownership now, I mean,millennials are tapped out at
homeownership.
I think, you know, homeownership
rates across Canada are about 60percent and millennials are there.
I think about the up and cominggeneration, you know, your kids
become right.
I mean, they'll need to get into
the market as well at some point,too.
So it's those types of things thatwe have to think about is that
(12:18):
homeownership is so ingrained inthe Canadian way of life.
And it's a fabric of who we are.
We have one of the highest
homeownership rates in the world.
So Canadians want to get into
homes as soon as they can.
And ultimately, that's really
where mortgage insurers give thatopportunity to homebuyers.
Yeah, that's well said.
So when you think about the way
that you guys fit into this, I'mreflecting on some of the changes
(12:41):
in 2024.
I mean, there was a whole bunch of
stuff that came down the pipeline.
It usually hit the insurers first
and the insurers work with thelenders and the lenders go and
administer those products out tobrokers.
Maybe just as a bit of a recap,and I know it already seems like a
distant memory, but what were someof those changes that took place
(13:03):
in 2024?How did Sage Inn and the mortgage
insurance industry fit into thatsuch that we can then go out and
we can spur homeownership forclients?
Big changes from a regulatoryperspective, for sure.
So when we talk about mortgageamortization for an insured
mortgage, it increased from amaximum of 25 years to 30 years.
And that's a big deal when itcomes to a first time homebuyer
who's looking at qualifying forthe most mortgage that they can.
That extra five years, it reallywas a step in the right direction
(13:25):
to helping them, you know, getinto homeownership.
We used to be able to do that inour industry.
In fact, a couple of years into mytenure at Sagen, I remember them
kind of that day that it cut backto 25 years and it almost felt
like a step backwards for thehomebuyer.
So really, really positive to see,you know, granted it's, you know,
all these years later.
that the government realized, you
(13:46):
know, 30 year amortization for afirst time home buyer, it just
makes sense.
So that was implemented late last
year.
Really good to see that momentum
from a government relationsregulatory perspective.
We have a big change beingimplemented in that insured
refinances are now back in thegame and back in the market.
So a borrower who owns a home canrefinance now up to 90 % of that
home's value with the funds fromthe equity takeout to be used to
(14:08):
build a secondary suite.
So that's a big game changer.
We used to offer insuredrefinances kind of back in the
day.
I'll use that phrasing.
And, you know, it's nice to seethat option come back because
that's helping to address thehousing supply issue, creating
more units and also to help withaffordability for folks who, you
know, maybe they've always wantedto build that basement suite and
they just haven't had the abilityto do so.
Now you can take out and reallyutilize the equity in your home to
(14:30):
give yourself that opportunity fora little bit of extra income every
month to help qualify yourmortgage.
So those are two big ones.
The government moves slowly when
it comes to changing mortgageregulations.
And it was really, really good tohave a win late last year, early
this year on those two topicsspecifically.
Yeah, it was interesting becausethe government moved so slowly,
but for a short period of time, itfelt like these things were coming
(14:54):
swiftly and not a lot of peoplewere in the know that they would
be coming.
And the expectation was that they
would be implemented ratherquickly.
So you go from a very status quomindset.
thinking that, hey, you know,here's sort of like some of the
top things that we would want tosee.
And now they all happen veryquickly in short succession with
(15:15):
seemingly not too manyconversations with, you know, a
lot of people in the industry inadvance.
I remember our teams havingconversations like, when is this
happening?What does it mean?
And you guys were like, we're justhearing this news too, but we're
all over it.
We're going to spur an action.
We'll find a way because, youknow, it's like, then you're in
the spot.
You got to update your
underwriting systems and softwareand you've got to change a bunch
of.
policies and procedures and
(15:35):
underwriting standards.
And then that's got to cascade
down through the lenders.
And then the lenders have to bring
that to the brokers who bring itto the market.
Ultimately, it is a reallyinteresting sort of dynamic.
And 2024 wasn't without events and2025 right out of the gate.
Here we go.
More changes.
And given what's going on in someof the political world right now,
(15:56):
there could be even more coming.
So just telling you, don't get
comfortable pretty much.
Absolutely.
But that's the best thing aboutour industry, right?
I mean, every day is different.
You know, it keeps us on our toes
and it keeps us fresh andrelevant.
And I think, you know, if anythingthat's a net new opportunity for,
you know, a mortgage broker ormortgage lender to capture
business from a new client,there's a lot to be excited about
(16:16):
on that front for sure.
Yeah.
Agreed.
So you mentioned the Board of
Mortgage Professionals Canada aswell.
And I want to talk to you aboutthat because some of those changes
that happened and some of thethings that our mortgage broker
community and lending community isasking for today, a lot of that
comes through the voices of...
people like Mortgage Professionals
Canada and the work that you dothere.
So can you explain a little bitmore about what it means to be on
the board of MortgageProfessionals Canada and what are
(16:39):
some of the things that you guysare working on right now for 2025
and beyond?Absolutely.
It's a well -timed questionbecause we were reflecting as a
board about all of these advocacywins when it comes to the
amortization, you know, theinsured refinancing as an example.
And so what's next?We've been advocating for those
changes for a decade.
So we have Ottawa's ear.
They are very, very generous withtheir time when it comes to
hearing from MPC about what needsto happen to drive positive change
(17:04):
for Canadians in this industry.
So we're strategizing in the next
few weeks about really honing inon what are our top... choices for
advocacy, kind of looking forwardinto the future.
And how that's done, how itrelates back to what we do as a
board is consulting with theindustry.
I think you kind of mentioned thatwhen we were talking about the
government changes became just howimportant that consulting piece is
when it comes to Number one, youknow, prioritizing what changes we
(17:25):
think should be made for theindustry, but also how those
changes should be rolled out andwhat's the impact and who needs to
be involved.
So that's a really big piece of
what MPC does is, you know,bringing the right people
together.
Communication with all of those
key industry stakeholders issomething that we prioritize.
We have regional what we calladvisory councils.
(17:46):
who meet quarterly to talk about,well, what is happening in your
markets?You know, what do we need to
change?What's working?
What's not?And then ultimately we bring that
feedback, you know, to ourquarterly board meetings to, you
know, see where we can reallydrive some change.
So I would describe it as a verycommunicative, very collaborative
and very consultative board thatultimately is just focused on all
key stakeholders, right?So. lenders, brokers, realtors,
homeowners, anyone who's involvedin the process, we're interested
(18:08):
in hearing their views and theiropinions about what can be better.
in Yeah.
So if I'm a mortgage broker or
part of a mortgage lender and Iwant my voice to be heard, how do
I do that?You know, I think people who are
boots on the ground are best totell us what they're feeling.
(18:28):
seeing, hearing from consumers.
I really do think consumer
behavior and consumer sentiment inmany ways should be a big driver
of it.
Shouldn't be the only driver
because there's the other part,which is also protecting the
taxpayer, protecting the lender,protecting the insurer, protecting
government instability for theoverall housing market.
But how can we hear from people inthe industry?
(18:49):
How can they make sure that theirvoice is heard as a part of this
process?Reach out to your board members.
I mean, that's number one.
We want to hear from the industry.
So that's where we have someopportunity, right?
I mean, MPC is out present atindustry events.
MPC hosts their own regionalsymposiums where we invite
mortgage lenders, mortgage brokersto come spend some time with us,
have an education day.
(19:10):
So I think attending those events
is number one.
If you're a broker who really
wants to have the ear of somebodyfrom MPC, but also just call us.
Right.
I mean, I think that's the spirit
of the board is, you know, what'son your mind and what can we help
clarify for you and what can wehelp drive forward for you?
It's a big industry.
You know, not everybody.
(19:32):
can, you know, get the ear of, youknow, everybody they want to at a
big event, like say the NBCNational Conference, but, you
know, come to those regionalevents, come to the online
webinars, or just pick up thephone and call us.
And I have every confidence thatthe board members who I work with
would give that same sentiment isthat, you know, we really want to
(19:53):
hear from the industry.
we Yeah, there's something to be
said for having a unified voice,right?
Because not everyone's gonna, youknow, knock down doors in Ottawa.
to be heard.
But if we can all, or there's tens
of thousands of us out there inthis industry across the country
here in Canada, if we cancentralize some of the asks, I
think that would be helpfulbecause really what we're trying
(20:17):
to do, and the reason why some ofthese changes are coming down as I
think about it, housing is one ofthe major things that we're trying
to solve for as a country rightnow.
It may be the most important thingalongside productivity that we are
trying to solve for as a countryright now.
And people are thinking about thisgenerationally.
As soon as I go to anywhere, afamily -related event, et cetera,
(20:39):
and I start talking to peopleabout what I do, it's like, oh,
will my kids be able to buy ahome?
Will their kids be able to buy ahome?
Or will I ever be able to buy ahome?
People don't understand all thepush and pull of our industry and
everything that goes in.
All they know is that it keeps
getting more expensive.
So they may not have the exact
solution.
But they know that housing in our
(21:00):
country has become such a reallyhot button issue.
And I think for too long, you gotpushed to the side.
And I do think that, you know, ifwe can collect our voices and get
the right people around the tablewho are action oriented and
actually acting on that, that'sthe other half of this equation is
like actually doing somethingabout it.
And I won't be on a soapbox here,but I do feel like for too long,
we knew that there were someunderlying problems.
(21:21):
They just got left to the side.
And I'm happy to see that some
changes are being made.
And I'm happy to see that some of
those are a direct result ofvoices getting around a table to
let you guys know at MPC and inother places, what needs to be
said, what things need to change,and then actually going out and
doing something about it.
(21:41):
So kudos to you and the work
you're doing.
If I'm a mortgage broker, Ivy, and
I'm thinking about some of thesenew policy changes and how to take
advantage and how to implementthem into my business, are there
any things that... you're thinkingabout or seeing people
successfully implement with theirown end consumer, the customer?
I mean, I think about that endconsumer and really the knowledge
gap.
I think that our industry does a
really good job in providing theresources for training and
(22:03):
education, but how it filters downto the consumer, I think we have
some opportunity there.
And a story to share on that is I
was on a plane late last year andthis gentleman sat beside me and
we were talking and he wasattending a professional
conference outside of ourindustry.
And when he found out that I wasin the mortgage industry, similar
to how you said your friends andfamily kind of have that immediate
question to you, became when westarted talking about him and he
(22:26):
was in a variable rate mortgage.
And this was a very professional,
successful individual who reallyhad a limited knowledge of the
mortgage that he himself held, whohis mortgage was even with.
I don't even think he could answerthat question when it was up for
renewal, his monthly payments.
There was a big gap there in terms
of what he knew.
about the process and about his
(22:47):
own mortgage product that he held.
So, I mean, that was surprising to
me, but it just reaffirms the workthat we need to do as mortgage
professionals to make sure that,you know, in this complex world of
Canadian mortgages, is the endconsumer completely comfortable
and knowledgeable on the choicesthat are being presented to them?
Mortgage brokers do an excellentjob in, you know, helping the end
consumer get into the rightmortgage.
But how do we stay connected withthem during the life of that
(23:11):
mortgage, right?This gentleman was coming up for
renewal.
He goes, I know it's soon, but I
don't really know when and I don'tknow how and who do I call?
And, you know, should I just go tomy branch and talk to somebody
there?The guidance throughout the life
of that mortgage, I think, isreally what we need to hone in on
when it comes to, you know, reallyjust number one, you know,
(23:33):
embracing that customerrelationship that you have, but
also making sure that thatconsumer doesn't feel lost in
these changes.
We've sat and talked about
regulatory changes, and we're inthe industry, and it can be
complicated, but imagine what itsounds like for somebody who's an
end consumer.
for somebody who's an end
consumer.
Yeah, I mean, you talked about two
of the changes, which is one justextending to third -year
amortizations, you know, to rentalsuite and going up to 90 % loan to
(23:56):
value.
What an awesome opportunity to
just reconnect with every singleclient you've done a mortgage for
in the past to just say, you know,Hey, it's been three years since
we did your last mortgage.
I just want to see how things are
going.
And maybe it gets uncovered
through that conversation that thepayment's tight month to month
right now, because the cost ofgoods and everything have gone up
and interest rates everywhere havegone up, not just in mortgage.
(24:18):
it gives you an opportunity tosay, okay, well, you know, we put
you in a 25 year amortization.
You've got 22 years left on that.
And like, look, I don't want youto pay significantly more interest
over the life of your mortgage,but I do want you to pay less
interest and have more freecashflow month to month.
We may want to consider actuallylooking at this 30 year
(24:42):
amortization so that you canafford it.
Once you get a few things clearedup.
We'll get you back to paying extraon the mortgage, get it paid down
as fast as you were planning toanyways.
But let's talk about that.
Or maybe it's, I was looking at
your property.
You've got some pretty good square
(25:02):
footage there.
And I know you said, you know,
your kids have grown up now.
Like, are they moving out?
Oh, no, no, they can't affordtheir own place.
Well, what if we did a rentalsuite?
Have you ever thought about that?And like, boom, a whole new
conversation, a whole new mortgageproduct.
And you're serving your borrowers.
You're serving the end consumer.
You're teaching them through that,right?
Like you're not going to calleverybody and tell them like,
here's all the new mortgagechanges.
(25:24):
You know, like sometimes we dothat as mortgage folks.
Like we create one tile on oursocial media and we post it.
We're like new changes up to 90 %loan to value.
And the phone doesn't ring.
Not surprisingly, right?
You actually have to get down tothe individual situation and say,
how are you doing?How is life?
How does your mortgage suit you?Is it still the right suit for you
in this current stature?Has things changed in your life
(25:46):
over three, five, 10 years?It is not something that you can
set and forget.
So that is really great advice,
truthfully, for mortgage brokersand a great opportunity to touch
base with all these changes.
And I'm sure there's more to come.
I'm confident there are more tocome here that will spur new
conversations with our consumers.
So you've been at Sage in 15
years?You're passionate about this
industry.
I know that.
I mean, you give up your own sparetime that you're now with friends
(26:07):
and family to also serve thisindustry and the board of MPC.
What are you hoping your impact ison this?
industry and what gets you excitedto get out of bed every day and
get after it still?Obviously, It is not you know, the
mentorship piece has been really,really critical in my upbringing
in this industry.
Like I said, I entered as a summer
student, an intern.
I was given an opportunity to
learn an industry that I knewnothing about.
(26:28):
And I will never forget the folkswho were generous with their time.
an folks who were generous withtheir time.
with me in answering questions andreally giving me that space to
learn without any judgment andwith follow up, you know, to check
in on how I was doing and, youknow, give me that time to really
ensure that I was learning what Ineeded to learn.
So that's really shaped who I amtoday, how I approach my work
today and what I hope for for thefuture is, you know, continuing to
(26:49):
be advocates for.
Some are students, some are
interns, folks who are new toindustry looking for a change
because, you know, you can teachtechnical skills all day long.
If you find somebody with passionand with drive and with work ethic
who wants to be committed tolearning something new, then I
think they can do really, reallygreat things.
So that's how I will alwaysapproach, you know, the hiring or
(27:09):
support of anybody in thisindustry.
And you also never know wheresomeone's going to end up.
Right.
I mean, in my day to day with my
sales strategy today, I mean, Itry to get to know everybody in
the organization.
You know, technically I own
executive level relationships, butI think it's equally important to
get to know everybody at alllevels because you never know what
(27:30):
kind of support you can provide tothem.
You also never know who's going tobe a director or a VP or the next
SVP or CEO.
And if people stick around a
business as long as I have withSajun, I mean, those types of.
you know, new opportunitiespresent themselves.
So when I look forward, I thinkthat's what my vision is.
That's how I want to approach, youknow, whatever type of leadership
(27:51):
role I'm in, giving time, givingspace, giving those opportunities.
That would be a great impact.
would be a great impact.
And I'm going to actually give youa story to attest to something
that you just said, which is like,get to know everybody inside of
the organization and foster thoserelationships.
Cause I think it's great advice,not just for sales, but in life.
Last time you came to town, Ithink it was the last time you and
(28:13):
I were having lunch that day.
We're going to go for lunch.
And I had messaged a colleague ofmine and I said, Hey, I'm going to
go for lunch with Ivy.
If you want to join, feel free.
And he's like, it's cool.
I already went for breakfast with
Ivy.
I was like, Oh, okay.
So you went for breakfast.
Isn't she really good at what she
does to build that relationshipand to know to do that.
(28:36):
And then I'm at lunch with you.
And I said, Hey, you should take
some time to really get to know.
Tori because she's working with
our mortgage brokers and all thisother stuff.
And you're like, I had dinner withTori last night already.
And I'm like, Oh, of course youdid.
Right.
So I didn't even know, but there
you are, you're fostering theserelationships all throughout our
organization and buildingrelationships that way.
(28:56):
And there's just so much to learnfrom that.
You never know who's out theredeeply passionate, making an
impact or taking the time forother people and helping them
grow.
And then helping, you know, each
other grow is just so.
so important and giving back that
way is so cool.
I want to give you one more
opportunity just to maybe shoutout because you've repeatedly gone
back to the fact that you've hadgreat mentors inside of those
(29:18):
walls and you've been there for 15years.
Who are some of those peopleinside the walls of Sajun, you
know, by name who maybe peopledon't know, but are real major
drivers in this industry thatmaybe we should.
think about as some of the peoplemaking the biggest impact out
there right now?Well, I mean, I've got to give a
shout out to Jim Spitali, our COO.
When he joined our business 10
(29:39):
years ago, he was director ofunderwriting and I reported to him
when I was an underwriter.
So Jim and I have grown up in this
business in a really positive way.
So I've got to give him a shout
out.
You know, we've kind of, you know,
learned the ropes of operations,underwriting and sales together
for sure.
I also, I know I showed out some
(29:59):
of our tenured underwriting team.
I mean, I think about folks who,
like you said, you know, ourexternal customers may not know.
You know, we've got a gentlemannamed Andy Posgate, who's our
technical underwriting leader whohired me into this business, you
know, helped me learn the ropes.
I also think about, you know, Mary
and Anita and Jeff, who are someof our tenured underwriters who
have been around our business for25 plus years, which is
incredible.
And they're the ones who took
time.
They really took time and they're
still working hard every day,servicing our customers, getting
(30:21):
to know our customers and makingsure they're providing really the
best customer experience.
So they are the gold standard for
what an underwriter and aprofessional in our industry
should be.
That's really cool.
Did not know Jim had anunderwriting background.
I took him as just like a careersalesperson.
So that's so awesome that you gotto do that with him and then
follow in that path because youguys.
are both amazing.
So very cool.
Thank you.
Well, thank you for joining me,
Ivy.
It's been a fantastic
conversation.
I know more about you and
(30:42):
hopefully everyone gets to knowmore about you, but yeah, mortgage
Ivy, the one and only in ourindustry.
Thank you for making such a greatimpact.
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
It's been a real pleasure.
So appreciate the conversation.
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