March 5, 2025 • 45 mins
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In this episode, Bekim is joined by Megan McDonald. An industry legend, Megan is the Sr. Vice-President of Single Family Sales at MCAP from Vancouver, BC. MCAP is Canada’s largest independent mortgage financing company, with annual sales exceeding $20 billion and over $150 billion in Mortgages Under Administration (MUA). Since joining MCAP in 2006, Megan’s transformative leadership has led to innovations in coaching, culture, and customer experience.
Currently, Megan is charged with driving the growth of the flagship brands through regional and new market penetration, and is also responsible for the national sales mandate for both MCAP and Eclipse brands, as well as the Broker Intelligent and Engagement (BEI) for product and channel development. Megan is also an acclaimed professional development speaker and is often called to speak at conferences nationwide.
Megan is here to discuss: → Her journey at MCAP and building a culture of growth and ambition, helping others achieve success, and evolving from being the biggest to becoming the best. → Rethinking sales & sales culture, how people work with people, not companies, the value of the broker/lender partnership, and what brokers should be paying attention to right now. → Entrepreneurial thinking & freedom of choice, living life by design, not default, structuring a purposeful life through systems, and owning your day.
MCAP Website: www.mcap.com
MCAP LinkedIn: @MCAP
Megan McDonald's LinkedIn: @MeganMcDonald
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Lending Thoughts,
(00:02):
sponsored by Rocket Pro.
Today, I'll be joined by Megan
McDonald, Senior Vice President ofSingle Family Residential Sales.
at MCAP, an industry legend,truly.
So I'm very excited to have thisconversation.
Megan talks about things such asliving by design, not by default.
She's very intentional.
We're talking about people working
with people, not companies.
And I love what she has to say
(00:25):
about rethinking sales and salesculture at companies today.
You're not going to want to missthis conversation.
Have a listen.
Megan, thanks for joining me
today.
No, thanks so much for having me.
My pleasure.
So I always like to start with the
(00:45):
same question that opens the doorto whatever you open the door to.
So can you tell us your life storyin 60 seconds or less, please?
Absolutely.
So let's start with born of two
crazy parents, entrepreneurs,troublemaker, horrible student,
ended up taking over my father'sMick at the age of 16 because he
became very ill.
(01:05):
I then went on to become a
university graduate from UVic, dida stint at BCIT, was one credit
short, then ended up working at myfirst official job in the
industry, a first national at theage of 22.
I was recruited to MCAP by thetime I was 25, the youngest BDM in
the history at that stage.
I went on at 28 to move to
(01:27):
Waterloo, where I ended upmanaging the call center for MCAP.
I moved to Toronto shortly afterthat.
Managed an alternative brandcalled Eclipse.
Found my way back to Vancouver.
Ended up marrying the love of my
life, Clayton Blaney.
And then I moved on to being the
SVP of MCAP sales.
In a total, I've had six different
roles at MCAP.
(01:48):
And this October will be my 20th
year.
That is amazing.
And thank you for being soconcise.
Although there's so much there, Idon't even know where to start.
It sounds like a series of firstthings just happening to you.
And then ultimately, everythingworked out in the end.
Am I gathering that correct?And that, you know, you were
(02:08):
thrust into a few things to start?Yeah, I would say my life has been
a bit of a roller coaster, but aride I took more than willingly.
I think there's moments in yourlife where you are either given
the greatest opportunity or agreat choice to make.
And I think one of the things thatI was blessed with.
very early on as a child wascourage and so I just kept saying
(02:29):
yes to things and yes to thingswhether I was quite there yet or
where someone thinks they shouldbe in their development to make it
happen but I had a lot of charismaI had a lot of confidence and I
had learned one valuable lessonfrom my father and that was no one
does it alone so every time I wasgiven an opportunity I found my
(02:50):
tribe my people who wouldultimately secure my success well
you've obviously developed a lotof relationships along the way to
get to where you are so i amcurious there's a bit of an aura
and or brand around you that youseem to be very very strong with
um obviously developed a lot ofrelationships along the way to get
to where you are so i am curiousthere's a bit of an aura and or
(03:15):
brand around you that you seem tobe very very strong with um
Curious, is that something thatyou've developed in recent years
or, you know, was 16 or 22 yearold Megan at, you know, stop one
or stop two or 25 year old?Like, at what point do you say,
like, I need to developrelationships.
I need people to know who I am,what I'm about.
And you actually need to hone thatintentionally.
Yeah, well, definitelyintentionally.
I live my life very much bydesign, not by default.
I like to lead.
I don't like to follow.
And one of the things I did very,very early on in my career is I
(03:36):
went to a golf tournament.
I was invited by First National to
understand a golf tournament.
And I was simply one of the whole
sitters, they say, just invited tosay hello to people.
And when I introduced myself, Iintroduced myself as Maggie
McDonald, Vice President of Sales,even though technically at the
time I had the title of FactsGirl.
This was my opportunity to kind ofset a different tone about what my
life would be like and givingpeople the impression that I had
(03:59):
very big dreams.
I do believe that one of the
fundamental things that can changeyour life is when you speak about
your dreams and you speak aboutthem out loud.
You'd be surprised how many peoplewill listen and how many people
want to help you with thosedreams.
I also became very astute veryearly on of understanding that
people don't work with companies.
They work with people in
(04:20):
companies.
And, you know, over 20 years of
speaking and interviewing mortgagebrokers and really anybody who's
going to buy anything, I alwaysask, you know, what do you base
your referrals on?How do you tell somebody about
somebody when you like them?And it always wasn't, oh, I like
Royal LePage, use them to sellyour home.
Or, oh, I like this brokerage, usethem to get your mortgage.
(04:42):
It's always a name of a personthat comes first.
and then a company.
It's always used Jim at Royal
LePage.
It's used Rosie at MCAT.
And so I think what people need tounderstand is that people don't
work with companies.
They work with people.
And if that is true, if we'regoing to settle on the fact that
is a true fact, then what I wouldsay is that this is your moment to
(05:05):
decide your brand and how yourpersonal brand accompanies and
joins.
and builds with the brand of
company you've chosen to be with.
So for myself, when I joined MCAP,
what I loved about it was I wasinnovative.
It was an underdog at the time.
It wanted great things and it
wanted to make a name for itself.
Well, nothing could have matched
up with me in the moment betterthan MCAP.
(05:27):
It's like looking in the mirror.
Right.
I just started talking big becauseMCAP was talking big.
And I started talking about what Iwanted to do and how I wanted to
do it.
And it was such an amazing moment
at the age of 34 when I actuallybecame the vice president of MCAT.
And so many of my broker partnersremembered that day at the golf
(05:49):
tournament.
So I'm curious, do you introduce
yourself as the VP of sales now?Or is there some other
introductory title in which you goby?
Yeah.
You know, it's funny.
Titles meant a lot to me when Iwas younger.
That was the indication of growth.
That was the signifier that I had
reached another level.
Now I look at it very differently.
My voicemail doesn't even have mytitle in it.
You know, my email does.
(06:11):
It's official.
MCAT email address.
But overall, when I go to events,
I talk to people and I simply saythat my name is Megan and I happen
to be in sales.
I happen to help people connect
and I often allow different groupsof MCAT to collaborate to create
great decisions.
I think you do get to a point
(06:33):
where you're more than happy tointroduce your people by their
titles to show how all your peoplehave come and to celebrate their
success.
But there is a moment and there is
actually a book on it called TheSecond Mountain where it describes
how you do get to a point whenyour moment is more about helping
others and about helping yourself.
And that is a good transition for
(06:55):
us all to finally make.
And there is a reason for that
first mountain to exist to get youto where you want to go.
that But there is a moment whenthat does all change.
I agree.
And I often relate this back to
people when they talk about money.
So it's typically very wealthy
people that are the first to tellyou that money doesn't matter.
Money won't buy you happiness.
Money won't buy all these things.
(07:17):
But the people who haven't made ityet, let's say, they're going
after that, right?And they're like, okay, I'll
figure that out when I get there.
But it's very easy to say in
hindsight that money doesn'tmatter.
And it's very easy to say inhindsight that title doesn't
matter.
But when you want it.
It's important and it will driveyou and it will help you shape the
person that you want to become.
And if you're doing the right
things, it will also help shapeyour actions, which I don't think
(07:38):
is a is a bad thing in itself.
But, you know, there's one of my
favorite things, which is what gotyou here won't get you there.
So at some point shedding that toknow that, like, OK, I no longer
need to carry this raft.
around anymore.
Like this come up in story that Ibuilt myself around is, is no
longer necessary.
And instead we've arrived and I'm
going to be comfortable with whereI'm at today.
(07:58):
And I'm going to have some funwith that.
Another thing that you'recomfortable with that I think is
probably made to be uncomfortablefor a lot of people unnecessarily
in our industry is the titlesales.
And I actually have noticed thisabout you and I've noticed this
about the MCAP team is that youguys are very open about the fact
that you work in sales and yourjob is to drive sales.
And I think for maybe a decade orso, like people just started like
trying to shed the title as if itwas a poor thing.
(08:22):
But I've noticed maybe aresurgence.
Can you maybe just speak to howyou guys think about sales
culturally and how you personallythink about that?
think about that?Years ago, nearly.
I would say 17 years ago, Iremember I did a presentation to
brokers and I actually showed apicture of a cat walking out of a
bag.
And I said, this is a message to
all of you.
The cat's out of the bag.
I'm in sale.
I'm here to tell you what I do.
(08:43):
I'm here to tell you what I want.
I'm here to ask it directly from
each and every one of you.
If you like what I say and you
like what I do, that I amexpecting business.
And it was pretty shocking to thegroup.
Usually they come in and they tryto hide that fact.
And I said, I know, I don't knowwhy it's a point of shame.
(09:04):
I think sales is one of the mostincredible things as human beings
we do.
And most people will not recognize
that in 99 % of the jobs outthere, you are selling to some
extent.
Selling is about understanding
other people.
not manipulating other people.
The problem is sales has beengiven a dirty word and it ain't
dirty at all.
In fact, it's amazing.
It's creative.
It's curious.
It's dynamic.
It's evolving.
It's changing.
And it's all about listening.
I mean, I want a person to say tome, I want to sell to you, Megan.
(09:29):
So please tell me everything aboutyou because I'm going to learn it.
And then I'm going to sell youwhat's only applicable to you and
your needs.
I don't want someone who's
pretending to be my friend.
I want someone who is looking to
be my friend so we can mutuallybenefit from the transaction.
I mean, my husband always jokesaround, can I please speak to my
wife, not Megan McDonald of MCAT?Because at the end of the day, at
(09:54):
end of the day, I'm looking forcollaboration.
I'm looking for a win -win.
Paul Bruce, who's my boss, one of
my greatest mentors, he said, abad deal will never turn into a
good deal.
And a bad deal is when one person
is winning more than the other.
And those deals never last.
So the sales at MCAP that we do,we are unfiltered.
We want your business.
(10:14):
We love your business.
You are chosen market mortgagebrokers.
We will do anything.
to try and create this
partnership.
So we want to hear about
everything you're doing, whyyou're doing it, and how we might
be able to help.
And if we can help, we ask for
your business.
I love that.
It actually brings me back to mydays as an account executive,
(10:38):
which is the equivalent of a BDMover here in the Canadian side.
And I was in the U .S.
at that time.
And I used to have a policy whereI wouldn't sign up a new
accountant.
lest they were ready to submit
their first mortgage inside of thefirst 72 hours.
And that was my rule.
And I would talk to these
(10:59):
brokerages.
They were so used to hearing from
account executives or BDMs, as wecall them here, who were just
saying like, sign up with me, signup with me, sign up with me, work
with us and whatnot.
And they were just willing to like
send them over this, you know,sign up package.
They get the package back andthey're like, all right, you're
(11:20):
all activated.
You're good to go.
You can start submitting wheneveryou're ready.
And I had a whole process builtaround it.
And our company ended up buildingan entire process around it.
You had mandatory training thatyou had to do in order to be able
to submit to us.
You had to fill out a couple
additional forms.
We actually added friction rather
than removing friction.
And then came up with volume
commitments.
And then I personally came up with
my own.
I need to deal within the first 72
(11:40):
hours.
Otherwise, you're not working with
me.
And the reason why was I looked at
the data.
gone on weeks, months, like once
30 days or 90 days had passed andthey hadn't submitted a deal.
The chance of them partnering withyou or zero.
of them partnering with you orzero.
Yeah, we just weren't part oftheir go -to set of lenders.
And I would tell them allbeforehand, here's the suite of
products that we offer.
what type of business do you do
now in the States?I will say the amount of data that
(12:01):
you have is vast.
Like you actually know where they
do their mortgages, what productsare doing outside Canada, a lot of
its guesswork, but you can stillhave the same type of interview.
The brokers didn't know we hadthat data, but we would have open
conversations and I would say, howmuch business did you do last
year?Where did you do that business?
Like by region and by product andall that stuff.
And then say, you know what?I think maybe we should work
(12:24):
together.
Sometimes often say like, I don't
think we're a great lender for youand the type of business that
you're doing.
And if I would ultimately come to
the idea where I'm like, Hey, it'stime to actually sell.
I think we have a good partnershipthat'll work.
Then it was, do you think you cansubmit a deal to me in the next
three days?If not, then, you know, let's put
this off a little while.
And if they're like, yeah, I've
(12:46):
got one for you right now.
I'm like, awesome.
Let's go.
I've got one for you right now.
I'm like, awesome.
Let's go.
I think that's fantastic.
There is such a benefit of
immediacy in that partnership.
Number one, because you get a
commitment.
Number two, because they try you
out.
Number three, you get to find out
if there's something wrong withthat relationship really quickly.
Because here's what we don't sellat MCAT.
We don't sell perfection.
We sell partnership.
So let's say you do send us thatdeal within the first three days.
(13:08):
We're going to find out.
What went wrong along the process?
Something happened and we're goingto rectify it really quickly.
And then we're going to be thereassurance that we're the type of
company, even if it's not perfect,it's going to work in the end for
you.
And I think there's something so
wonderful about keeping timelines,having data and being vulnerable.
It's a salesperson and talkingabout the types of things that can
go wrong in our mortgage processand the types of things we do when
things go wrong, as well as theeveryday things that just go
fantastic.
I mean, when you think about the
(13:30):
amount of volume that MCAP does ina day and to think that one
escalation a month may hit my desktells you that we rely on an
amazing amount.
process and systems that have been
challenged and tried and revisedfor 25 years.
Those are the conversations I havewith brokers.
I love that idea of basicallyknowing things are going to go
wrong in advance.
Yeah.
Do you ever just tell brokerslike, hey, things are going to
(13:51):
fall apart sometimes and we'll behere to fix it?
Yeah.
Because here's the thing.
I mean, I've been in this job atMCAP nearly 20 years, as I
mentioned, and there's nothing youcan't resolve.
there's nothing you can't resolvei mean at the end of the day we
have a lot of power to do theright thing it's whether a lender
chooses to do the right thing yeahAnd I think that reframes and
(14:11):
makes you think beyond just thenext deal, because oftentimes as a
broker, it is hard to get past thenext deal.
I mean, how many times have youheard, like, I'm never using you
guys again?It's like, okay, I mean, you can
only do that so many times beforeyou're just out of lenders.
So instead of that, of that, let'swork together, right?
Right, right.
(14:31):
And I mean, here's the beautiful
thing is when I think of amortgage broker and a lender, I
think then adding in that client,that's the triangle, right?
If the lender and the broker onthe side of the table working
together for the client, then it'sa win -win.
Whenever the lender and the brokerfeel like they're at odds, that's
(14:52):
when the client gets lost.
That's when the transaction gets
lost.
You know, I remember I had a
broker call me one day.
He was immediately started yelling
on the phone.
And I said, I just need to slow
you down.
I need to stop you right here.
I don't think we've ever met.
And he said, no, I'm so angry.
And I said, if we had met and ifwe had already spoken, you
wouldn't be yelling right nowbecause you know, you would know
(15:13):
that no one has to yell at MeganMcDonald to get her to do the
right thing.
So why don't we start again?
And you can tell me what happened.
And then I'm going to tell you how
much I'm going to help you.
And he was just completely taken
back.
And I said, so let's start again.
Ring, ring.
Hi, I'm Megan.
he was just That's fantastic.
I love that.
(15:34):
So I want to go back to somethingyou said earlier because you talk
about Paul a lot.
And I love that the two of you
have that sort of mentor -menteerelationship and you've got a
team.
And it seems to be really
important to all of you guys towork really, really well together.
How much longer has Paul spent atMCAP?
Then you, I'm curious, because hesort of seems to be able to have
(15:56):
created and curated this culturein and around your team that was
one of growth.
Because you said you joined MCAT
because their story seemed a lotlike yours.
It's like the Alexander Hamiltonkid from the outside.
I'm coming up and, you know, we'regoing to figure this thing out.
We're going to do big, amazingthings.
And for some reason, that's liketends to like start attracting
people of similar mindsets.
So like that's Paul and then
(16:16):
that's you and then that's theteam.
How does all that get createdculturally?
Yeah, you know, Paul's been withthe company over 30 years.
And with that comes just suchextensive information and
education on every process andevery growth spurt and every
lesson that came from that.
And I think when Paul talks about
MCAP, he speaks about it as ifit's an extension of himself.
And that's really what you want.
You want an executive team that
(16:39):
believes that the company is partof them because the ego always
does everything for ourselves.
Well, imagine if a company was an
extension of thyself.
You are going to make the right
decisions.
You're going to make clear
decisions and you're going todrive a culture that says we're
going to do our best every singleday.
When I met Paul Bruce, I was veryyoung.
(17:00):
I had actually been asked to joina group, a small group of MCappers
within Toronto.
And Paul and I won the same award
on the same night and had nevermet a day before that.
And what was interesting aboutthat day is we got up there, we
took our awards, we shook ourhands, and we didn't speak for
three more years.
And then on the day that we spoke
was because I was consideringleaving MCAP and the company was
going through some changes.
(17:21):
And I was recognizing that those
changes were happening.
And I wasn't sure if I was part of
those changes.
And Paul came to meet with me.
He was actually, a lot of peoplecame to him and said, you should
really meet with Megan.
And he said, I don't think I know
(17:42):
Megan.
No, you do know Megan.
You met Megan on a stage years agowhen you won an award together.
And he said, all right.
And he came to the office that I
was working at.
And within 30 minutes, he wrote on
a whiteboard the entire vision ofMCAT for the next 10 years that he
had in mind.
And I just was blown away.
Number one, that someone wouldshare a vision like that with
(18:04):
somebody.
number two with no strings
attached, and that he wasvulnerable and strong enough to
put his ideas out there on theline.
And when he was done, he said, doyou want to be part of something
great?You know, the joke of Jerry
Maguire, you had me at hello.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So you have a girl who dreams big,
(18:24):
and then somebody else puts theirdream out in front of them and
says, let's go do this together.
go do Say, okay.
And just so you know, like that'show it gets.
So like the next person that talksto me, I'm outlining the dream.
The next person talks to the nextperson, they're outlining the
dream.
And all of a sudden people are
talking about this dream of MCAP,going to be number one, going to
(18:47):
grow, going to acquire, going tobuild.
person And people want to be apart of something, but most
importantly, they want to be apart of something great.
Yeah, I agree.
So what is that thing now?
Because if I'm not mistaken,MCAP's number one.
If not number one, then it'sdefinitely knocking on the door.
It's up there.
But what do you guys get in a room
now?I mean, I've been through that,
(19:08):
right?I was with Rocket in the U .S.
We were the 12th largest lender inMichigan, I think -ish, when I
started.
And then went on to become the
largest lender in the world atthat time.
And actually, the idea of beingnumber one.
to become number one.
I don't even know if we fully
(19:28):
believed it when we were sayingit, right?
Like we kind of believed it.
It looked great on a whiteboard,
but you're talking about passingChase and Bank of America and
Wells Fargo.
It'd be similar to, you know,
being a tiny little player inCanada today talking about passing
Royal Bank and TD and people go,okay, that's great.
But then you actually go out anddo it.
(19:49):
Wow.
But how does that conversation
sound now for you guys aftergetting so big and seeing so much
success?be actually Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you know, it's a funnything.
You can be number one.
That's great.
But you can be number one in amillion different categories.
So you can be the biggest.
And then the question is, are you
the most innovative?Are you the most efficient?
Are you the greatest culture?Like you can pick a million things
(20:10):
that you want to be number one.
And I think being the biggest was
one of the goals we wanted to benumber one.
But we also want to be number onein technology.
We also want to be number one whenit comes to changes that come with
technology like AI.
We also want to become number one
to be the number one best place towork.
We want to be number one increating the most dynamic and
(20:31):
interesting culture in Canada.
So I think for MCAP, it doesn't
just apply to volume or it doesn'tjust apply to scale.
We have a lot of different goalsto be number one.
Our business continues to shift.
And it's been amazing to see how
it's shifted in diversity.
It's been interesting to see how
we've led a huge charge in womengaining leadership roles in our
business.
When Elaine Taylor and I became co
-VPs, we were the only co -femaleVPs in the industry.
(20:52):
And that was over 10 years agotoday.
But since then, we've seen anevolution of women taking over
large leadership roles in ourindustry, which is fantastic.
You can lead in a milliondifferent ways.
And what we're interested in,honestly, is like, which one will
we pick today to try to take on?I mean, most recently we did over
the last couple of years, our BlueCulture campaign.
We wanted to do one of the mostdynamic, fun, educational videos
(21:15):
regarding our brokers and why theychose MCAT.
We chose one of the best groups todo the video recording.
We chose the best brokers acrossthe country to interview.
And I have brokers every day andour own competitors who come up to
me and speak to me about blueculture.
So for now, we're happy to benumber one.
was But number one in whatcategory?
And so I'll tell you, the bigthing for us is to be number one
(21:35):
subservicing company in Canada.
We want to make sure that we're
growing and helping the Canadianconsumer find options.
And subservicing is a big part ofour business.
We also want to be the number onewhen it comes to technology for
clients to view their mortgage.
We call that MyMCAP.
You can go in, search yourmortgage, make some changes.
We were the first company inCanada to offer a switch during
(21:57):
COVID where you could go in.
online, click a button to defer
your payments.
You didn't have to wait.
You didn't have to call.
You didn't have to justify.
So as you can see, there's a fewways we like to be number one, and
that's going to keep changing andthat's going to keep evolving.
And hopefully we're going to worktoward it.
(22:18):
I like that because I heard thesame many years ago.
I say it all the time, butespecially when people start
quoting the number of years atwhich they've been doing
something.
And a lot of times I was like,
Hey, I've been doing this 20years.
And most people truthfully havedone like one year of experience,
one year of work repeated 20times.
So if you're not actually learninganything new and you're not.
(22:39):
actually growing for all thesubsequent years, then one year is
as good as 20 for most people.
And something I think about is
like, I'm typically trying toidentify the people who actually
are learning something new overthe course of 20 or, you know, in
Paul's case, 32 years or whateverit is.
Because if you're constantlythinking about what to do next and
going out and tackling that andthen teaching and teaching and
(23:03):
teaching and learning and learningand learning, well then.
you're actually learning over thecourse of 32 years.
There's actually 32 years worth ofknowledge.
But if all you've got is one yearof knowledge repeated 32 times,
that's not really helpful.
No, and it's not exciting.
And I will tell you, there isnever a dull day at MCAP because
if I was to describe MCAP as acompany, I would say we're a bunch
of people that are likely shouldhave been business for self who
(23:26):
have come together under a brand.
There's not a day that goes by
that somebody... at the executivelevel will refer to their KPIs or
their objectives.
Like we know them, they're
tattooed on us and it simply ishashtag winning.
Like it is a desire we all havewhenever we're meeting.
It's how can we be better?How can we be bigger?
It is a room of entrepreneurialthinkers.
It is not a room of people waitingto get a list of tasks to achieve.
(23:48):
Paul Bruce, I think it was acouple of years ago, he's laughing
at me.
I said, I was so stressed out.
I had so much on my plate and hestarted laughing.
He goes, well, you don't have meto blame.
I haven't actively been your bosssince the day you started.
You've been your boss.
So if you're overloaded, then
you're the boss here, not me.
He was right.
(24:09):
I mean, at the end of the day.
Paul doesn't call me and say, what
have you achieved?I phone Paul and tell him what I'm
going to do to change thelandscape of the mortgage
environment in Canada.
That is the way the game is played
at MCAT.
That's an awesome way to think
about it.
(24:29):
I often think about that as it
relates back to my calendar.
Sometimes I get like really busy,
I'm sure like you do or others do,and I'll have to remind myself.
I literally control it.
Like I have anybody telling me
like what to do every minute of myday or telling me when I can like
take a lunch or not take a lunchand hold on, let's take stock
here.
Where can I spend my time that
(24:52):
make things most impactful so thatwe can go out and we can achieve
our goals and I can achieve mypersonal goals as we go along.
Like something as simple as bakingmeditation into my day.
Something I did a few years agothat, you know, felt like a big
deal for me at the time, but.
I knew that there was this period
of the day where I would, by 1230,one o 'clock, I would need a
(25:16):
reset.
But instead of actually resetting,
I would barrel through and I wouldjust get more miserable and more
agitated as the day went on.
And I'm like, why?
Who's telling me to do this?No one is telling me that I can't
take 30 minutes in the middle ofthe day to stop, pause, reset, and
then have a great afternoon afterthe fact.
I took control.
Yeah.
And I think many, many of myfamily members will tell you I'm a
(25:38):
control freak.
What I am is I'm a choice freak.
I know this is all my choice.
I know that every decision I make
in the day is for me to make.
No one is making me show up.
No one is making me do anything.
And I think when you come back to
that place of power, you will ownyour day to day.
And a couple of things thathappened a few years ago is I
(26:01):
really dove in as you're talkingabout meditation.
I really dove into health andwellness.
I mean, I would start anoccasional national meeting with
how many glasses of water have youdrank today?
It's your choice.
How many of you have had your
greens today?That's your choice.
How many of you got eight hourssleep last night?
That's your choice.
How many of you are exercising
four times a week?That's your choice.
This is an era where people oftenfeel their life just takes off and
(26:22):
they have no choice.
There's so much choice in the day.
And especially if you are in thisindustry, this industry has tons
of opportunity for people who wantit.
There is tons of way tocommunicate today through the web
and social media if you want to.
So there is never anyone holding
us hostage.
And the minute you start to
understand how much power youhave, you wouldn't believe what
you would choose to do with yourday.
And it is your choice.
(26:42):
It's absolutely your choice.
I often ask people the question,are you owning your day or is the
day owning you?You could see it on people's faces
sometimes, right?It's like, oh, this day's owning
you.
Well, what if instead we like took
a step back and what would it looklike for you to actually own the
day?And it was something I did coming
into 2025 was I started with anexercise, like basically framed a
question.
(27:02):
I feel like I've had a great day
when, and I'm a planner.
We're probably similar in a lot of
ways.
I'm a I can definitely be accused
of being a control freak.
It's mostly fun, but not always
for everybody in my life.
And I always start with like
really, really, really big dreamsand goals.
And that's okay.
Cause I appreciate, you know, just
having a big vision and being avisionary, but what often creates
(27:24):
the end goal or the outcome iswhat I do in the day to day, just
like literally day by day by day,not even in 90 days, forget
quarters, forget all that stuff.
Just like, what do I do today?
I wake up super early.
I get my workout in, I've already
had water.
And then I've like accomplished
like five things before anyoneelse has even started their day.
I'm like, that's an.
awesome feeling.
I am fully caught up on emails andtext message returns and all these
(27:47):
other things.
By the time my team walks into the
office for the day, I'm like, hey,how are you doing?
I'm in a great mood.
I'm greeting people.
I just feel... fantastic.
And I just took control of my own
day to day and it'll slip on meover time.
And, you know, right now I'm in aseven day a week workout routine.
(28:08):
I'll miss a day or two here orthere and then I'll have to come
back and I'll start a new streak.
So I build it in streaks, but that
is so, so important.
You sound really motivated by
going out and just winning thatday.
So I'm curious now, what are youmost motivated by and what are
some things that you're personallyattacking in the day to day?
Yeah, great question.
So I think I'll start with
(28:29):
something a little controversialthat I actually believe that
motivation is kind of crap.
I believe that you are either born
with an insatiable driver or not.
And I meet people every day and I
can tell who has it and I can tellwho doesn't.
And some of us just play by therule book of the robot and we put
out our day and we do it and youcan get it done.
You can get it done like that allday long.
But if you are a person that wasborn with an insatiable drive, and
(28:54):
albeit when I was very young andwent in very wrong directions, and
I was a very bad girl sometimes,but that is because I wanted to do
things.
And sometimes the rule book didn't
apply.
And I think for me.
I have an insatiable desire tolearn.
I have an insatiable desire togrow.
When I think about not whatmotivates me, but what are my
values?My values are education.
My values are growth.
(29:14):
My values are contribution.
My values are helping others.
My value is showing up and being
present.
And my whole day revolves around
that.
So a great example is if you were
to look at my every day, it'salmost the exact same.
And it's the exact same because Iasked myself, what do I want that
day to look like?And what I want it to look like is
I'm going to look organized.
I'm going to look professional.
(29:34):
I'm going to look dynamic.
I'm going to look in it.
I want to look like I can have theanswers or find the answers.
I'm going to show up curious.
I'm going to show up open -minded.
Well, what does it take to dothat?
Well, it takes getting up early.
I work east and west.
I have a management team that isup at their desk at 6 a .m.
my time.
So that means I'm getting up even
earlier.
That means I'm making sure I'm
eating well and getting rightsleep and going to bed on time.
(30:00):
There is a program that I've livedby and I love by because it has
helped me be the person that Ialways wanted to be.
And again, that came down tochoice.
And things have shown up in mylife and there's been
disappointments and there havebeen personal challenges and
there's been professionalchallenges.
But I always sit back and I lookat that commitment I've made to
(30:22):
myself to get to the goals I'vealways wanted.
And by the way, it ain't sexy.
It ain't sexy at all.
In fact, it's very hard and it'svery disciplined.
But then I can be here with youright now and be incredibly
engaged, positive and passionateabout what I do because I do those
other things that aren't so great.
It is my moment to shine.
Because I've done the work in theoff hours to make sure the on
hours are nothing but on.
(30:42):
So I'm curious to get into a
little bit more detail on thatbecause what you just said is so
important and so impactful.
And if I'm listening, I go,
awesome.
How do I do that?
So A, it sounds like that flamebetter be born lit.
It's hard to light it otherwise,right?
I love that you said thatmotivation is often overrated and
oftentimes misunderstood and youcan't teach that part, but you can
(31:05):
inspire, I believe, right?So you can inspire somebody who's
already motivated.
You can influence that, but you
can't get them to do the day -to-day of what's it going to take.
So you talked about... having astructure, what does structure
look like for you such that youcan go out and you can make the
most of each day?So you can inspire somebody Yeah,
it's systems.
You got to build a life of
(31:26):
systems.
So I look at every day as a
system.
I look at food as fuel.
I look at sleep as restorativerest from my brain, my energy.
I look at fitness as strain.
Am I hitting enough strain so I
can sleep well at night?Am I hitting enough strains so I
can have a healthy heart?And if I have a healthy heart, my
blood pressure is going to be low.
If I do enough weight training,
can I make sure that I have enoughmobility and strength to have a
(31:47):
day that is 10 hours on the phone,nonstop, making magic happen?
I mean, at the end of the day.
I got really intensely into the
coaching culture and understandingwhat creates great performance.
And quite often what I foundmyself was looking at Olympians,
looking at great athletes, andthey live and die by systems.
Whether you're a great footballplayer, whether you're a great
tennis player, you have systems inwhat you eat, how much water you
(32:10):
drink, the food you choose to eat.
I mean, I have decided three years
ago to go sober.
I'm not an advocate for sobriety.
But that was a system that workedfor me.
I looked at everything as asystem, not just a pleasure.
And some people might go, youknow, your life must not be filled
with so much pleasure.
(32:32):
I love working.
I love giving 100%.
I love showing up for my husband.
I love showing up for my friendsand family.
I love being generous with my timeand my fortune.
But these systems are what allowme to do that, right?
This is about understanding ourpersonal limitations.
And then what can we do to perhapsmove above them?
So for myself, when I looked atmyself a couple of years ago, my
(32:59):
husband had a tragic accident.
I fell into PTSD.
I was deeply struggling.
And where did I go?
I went to my systems.
I took a look at what I was doing
and how I was doing it.
I went and got a therapist.
I went and got brain therapy.
(33:20):
I said to everybody, I want you to
imagine that I'm going to theOlympics in six months.
And in fact, I was going up for apromotion for senior vice
president.
When my husband had his accident,
my promotion was on hold.
Who's mom?
No hold here.
How do I get back in the game?
And I... reached out to all myresources, my mentors, my coaches,
and I have many.
And I said, what is it going to
(33:41):
take for Megan McDonald to becomea talker for game again?
So this promotion is in questionthat this is the life I want to
live.
How can we get there?
And one of those questions thatcame up was what about sobriety?
And if you're in sales, you have agood laugh and you say, that's
funny.
Talk to you later.
But I had to decide for myself.
If I could make that leap and what
(34:02):
that leap would mean to mybusiness, what that leap would
make for my personal life and whatthat leap would make for me.
And so I took it, I built it intomy systems, and now I'm three
years sober.
One of the best decisions I ever
made, but for me.
because that system allowed for
better sleep, that system allowedfor less anxiety, that system
(34:24):
allowed for less depression, thatsystem allowed for me to get up
earlier to go to the gym, thatsystem allowed for less recovery
days.
Like it all just became a system
to me.
And listen, if you can run your
life by default, God bless you.
I wish I was one of them.
I'm not.
Yeah.
My life by design.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I break away for even just a
(34:45):
moment, that's why I say it.
workout 70s a week because for me,
not sober, but I know the cost ofa drink on a Saturday night means
that I'm going to grind through mySunday morning.
I know what the cost is.
Like I know what it is.
Luckily, I've never been a heavydrinker anyways.
Yeah.
Or someone who, you know, partakes
in such a way that like makes mefeel terrible.
(35:06):
But I know, you know, even thecost of like staying up too late
on that night.
even without a drink and waking up
with a raspy voice and a littleless sleep than I'd like, but
still having to like do the hardthing the next morning.
It's why I do the hard thing thenext morning, because that's
actually more important to me thanthe thing from the night before.
When you start to recalibrate thatand you build a system around it
(35:27):
and you push yourself to like stayon track to that system, it does.
create balance.
And by the way, the best
salespeople that I've ever seen,they're incredibly systematic.
I know that there's just some raw,talented people out there.
I've seen them do it, but thequestion becomes for how long I
think, because I'll take theperson.
whose calendar looks robotic everyday for 20 years, over a 20 -year
time frame, compared to the personwho's just naturally talented.
(35:48):
I think I did have the gift ofbeing naturally talented in my
early years, but as I started tobecome an adult, natural and raw
talent wasn't enough.
It is, in a way, like you said,
like being a professional athletewhere, hey, raw talent in high
school might be enough.
Then you get to, let's say,
university level sports.
And oh my goodness, the rest of
these kids are all taking itpretty seriously.
They're raw talent and they'rededicated.
(36:10):
And then you go to the next leveland it's like, oh my gosh, not
only are they talented, they'rededicated, like just another level
of dedication that I'm playingagainst now.
So like the higher level you playthe game, the harder it gets,
right?You know, that it, but then know,
it's amazing that you brought thatup because that was the kickoff to
2025, whereas talent is notenough.
And in this game, in this market,it's getting more and more
(36:32):
competitive.
And if you're sitting back on the
laurels of your talent, you are inyesterday's club, not today's
winning circle.
And this is what recognizing
consistent evolution is all about.
I mean, and by the way, I don't
make this stuff up.
It is all around us.
I mean, I'm a knowledge junkie.
So it's a podcast every morning
while I'm making my coffee beforeI'm even up.
(36:53):
It's a book.
It's this, it's a calm app.
I mean, I learned from the calmapp, LeBron James did a whole
session on why sleep is criticalfor him being the number one
basketball player in the world, ifyou believe you.
And I think there's just, there'sso much out there if you dare to
listen and dare to try it and say,you know what, if this person can
be successful and they do this,and this person can be successful
(37:16):
and they do this, what if I triedthat on?
Not all systems are going to workfor all people.
But you can find out what it is.
I mean, a great example would be
is I wear a whoop and I study mysleep and I study my strain and I
study my stress and I monitor mybehavior based on that.
And I was able to influence myhusband to some degree to start
(37:36):
monitoring his sleep.
Well, the greatest discovery of
his life was found that all of hisREM sleep happens between 5 a .m.
and 7 a .m.
Well, I guess we're not catching
any more flights at 6 a .m.
anymore.
Like he performs at his best whenhe gets the leap between five and
seven, because over a six weekperiod, we were able to define
that that is where he gets hisdeepest and best leaves.
(37:59):
Well, then we'll just work thesystems around that.
It's that famous line.
If you don't know thyself, my God,
how can you tackle the world?Know your limits, play within it,
build your systems and have greatgoals, share them with everyone
and anyone who will ever listen,take great feedback and advice and
keep going.
Such actual.
Good takeaways on that, which Iappreciate.
I have a question for you.
(38:21):
So what are you following in the
macro right now?What are you paying attention to
at a broader scale that helps yoube a great business person and
ultimately run a great business?Yeah.
Okay.
Well, the biggest trend right now,
I would say in the industry isvolatility.
If you're not reading the news,watching the news and getting
caught up on the news of what'sgoing on in our world, you're
(38:42):
likely not going to be able togive your client.
whatever client that is, realtor,mortgage broker, referral source,
you're not going to be able togive them the comfort that you
need to give them.
Here's the thing.
People want to work with peoplethey know, like, and trust.
Well, how do you build trust?You share with them some facts and
some information about what'sgoing on in the world.
You ask them a million questionsabout what they need and what they
(39:07):
want and what they're worriedabout.
And then you help bring thattogether for them.
And so right now, because of allthe changes since COVID, I mean,
if anything has been consistentsince COVID, it's change.
And if change is the oneconsistent thing right now, you
should be up to date with what itis.
And that means not necessarilyhaving an opinion.
And I want to be a little bit firmon that.
(39:27):
The world is not short on opinion.
It is very short on people that
understand it and able to place itwith that client's needs and
wants.
And so if there's a trend right
now, for me, it's educatingyourself on what's happening in
our industry, interest rates, thecurrent trends, what some bank
economists are viewing as thefuture, and then sharing that with
their clients.
So they know that, number one,
I've chosen an educated source.
I've chosen a source that
(39:48):
understands what's going on in ourindustry and wants to choose the
best and most secure product frommy circumstance.
So I think that right now.
is what people are needing most is
assurance.
And I think that's one of the ways
to do it.
For sure.
I mean, that's the impact ofmortgage brokers is knowledge and
being able to share that and thenultimately helping clients to the
right financial decisions.
Going to impact, I want to close
(40:10):
by just asking you about yours andwhat you want for the time ahead.
I mean, you've accomplished someamazing things.
You talk about your younger years,you're still young.
So presumably you've got quite theroad ahead, especially given all
the health.
So what do you want to accomplish
in your life and career?And how do you think about impact?
Yeah, great question.
You know, impact for me has
definitely evolved.
So at one point, impact for me was
very selfish in that sense of whatcan I do?
(40:32):
What will that look like?What will that get me?
And I remember years ago, I had ahealth care and I was sitting at
the hospital with my mother.
And my mother is from New York
City.
She's very honest.
She's very forthright.
And she started laughing as I'm
sitting there because what am Idoing?
I'm returning emails on my phoneas I'm about to go into surgery.
(40:53):
And she started laughing.
I said, okay, Mary, what are you
laughing about?And she goes, oh, I was just
thinking about what your tombstonewould say.
And I said, oh, really?That's lovely.
Would you mind sharing?She goes, yes.
Megan McDonald, an outstandingemployee.
And I think that was a wake -upcall to me about what that legacy
would be and how do I want to beremembered.
And that's definitely not it.
think Probably for my 20s, maybe I
(41:14):
would have taken it.
But now I am turning 45 this year
and I really want to be known as aperson that supported other
leaders.
I want to help create amazing
people who want to do amazingwork.
I'm going to give them a voice.
I want to give them a channel.
I want to give them anopportunity.
I want to be known as a tremendousfamily member that was generous
and giving and kind.
I want to be known as an amazing
(41:35):
wife that stood by somebody's sideand said, you can do anything.
And I want to be known at MCAP.
as a leader that tried new things
and had the courage to makemistakes and try again.
So I think that's the legacy I'mlooking for.
Again, it's not perfection.
It is partnership.
I'm not alone in this world.
I did not get here by myself and I
will not get to the next level bymyself.
(41:57):
And so it is about community forme and how can I build that?
And how can I instill in otherpeople that is community that will
get them where they want to go oneday?
That was wonderful.
Thank you for sharing.
And thank you for being on thepodcast today, Megan.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Yeah, no, I really appreciate yourtime.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Lending Thoughts,
(00:02):
sponsored by Rocket Pro.
Today, I'll be joined by Megan
McDonald, Senior Vice President ofSingle Family Residential Sales.
at MCAP, an industry legend,truly.
So I'm very excited to have thisconversation.
Megan talks about things such asliving by design, not by default.
She's very intentional.
We're talking about people working
with people, not companies.
And I love what she has to say
(00:25):
about rethinking sales and salesculture at companies today.
You're not going to want to missthis conversation.
Have a listen.
Megan, thanks for joining me
today.
No, thanks so much for having me.
My pleasure.
So I always like to start with the
(00:45):
same question that opens the doorto whatever you open the door to.
So can you tell us your life storyin 60 seconds or less, please?
Absolutely.
So let's start with born of two
crazy parents, entrepreneurs,troublemaker, horrible student,
ended up taking over my father'sMick at the age of 16 because he
became very ill.
(01:05):
I then went on to become a
university graduate from UVic, dida stint at BCIT, was one credit
short, then ended up working at myfirst official job in the
industry, a first national at theage of 22.
I was recruited to MCAP by thetime I was 25, the youngest BDM in
the history at that stage.
I went on at 28 to move to
(01:27):
Waterloo, where I ended upmanaging the call center for MCAP.
I moved to Toronto shortly afterthat.
Managed an alternative brandcalled Eclipse.
Found my way back to Vancouver.
Ended up marrying the love of my
life, Clayton Blaney.
And then I moved on to being the
SVP of MCAP sales.
In a total, I've had six different
roles at MCAP.
(01:48):
And this October will be my 20th
year.
That is amazing.
And thank you for being soconcise.
Although there's so much there, Idon't even know where to start.
It sounds like a series of firstthings just happening to you.
And then ultimately, everythingworked out in the end.
Am I gathering that correct?And that, you know, you were
(02:08):
thrust into a few things to start?Yeah, I would say my life has been
a bit of a roller coaster, but aride I took more than willingly.
I think there's moments in yourlife where you are either given
the greatest opportunity or agreat choice to make.
And I think one of the things thatI was blessed with.
very early on as a child wascourage and so I just kept saying
(02:29):
yes to things and yes to thingswhether I was quite there yet or
where someone thinks they shouldbe in their development to make it
happen but I had a lot of charismaI had a lot of confidence and I
had learned one valuable lessonfrom my father and that was no one
does it alone so every time I wasgiven an opportunity I found my
(02:50):
tribe my people who wouldultimately secure my success well
you've obviously developed a lotof relationships along the way to
get to where you are so i amcurious there's a bit of an aura
and or brand around you that youseem to be very very strong with
um obviously developed a lot ofrelationships along the way to get
to where you are so i am curiousthere's a bit of an aura and or
(03:15):
brand around you that you seem tobe very very strong with um
Curious, is that something thatyou've developed in recent years
or, you know, was 16 or 22 yearold Megan at, you know, stop one
or stop two or 25 year old?Like, at what point do you say,
like, I need to developrelationships.
I need people to know who I am,what I'm about.
And you actually need to hone thatintentionally.
Yeah, well, definitelyintentionally.
I live my life very much bydesign, not by default.
I like to lead.
I don't like to follow.
And one of the things I did very,very early on in my career is I
(03:36):
went to a golf tournament.
I was invited by First National to
understand a golf tournament.
And I was simply one of the whole
sitters, they say, just invited tosay hello to people.
And when I introduced myself, Iintroduced myself as Maggie
McDonald, Vice President of Sales,even though technically at the
time I had the title of FactsGirl.
This was my opportunity to kind ofset a different tone about what my
life would be like and givingpeople the impression that I had
(03:59):
very big dreams.
I do believe that one of the
fundamental things that can changeyour life is when you speak about
your dreams and you speak aboutthem out loud.
You'd be surprised how many peoplewill listen and how many people
want to help you with thosedreams.
I also became very astute veryearly on of understanding that
people don't work with companies.
They work with people in
(04:20):
companies.
And, you know, over 20 years of
speaking and interviewing mortgagebrokers and really anybody who's
going to buy anything, I alwaysask, you know, what do you base
your referrals on?How do you tell somebody about
somebody when you like them?And it always wasn't, oh, I like
Royal LePage, use them to sellyour home.
Or, oh, I like this brokerage, usethem to get your mortgage.
(04:42):
It's always a name of a personthat comes first.
and then a company.
It's always used Jim at Royal
LePage.
It's used Rosie at MCAT.
And so I think what people need tounderstand is that people don't
work with companies.
They work with people.
And if that is true, if we'regoing to settle on the fact that
is a true fact, then what I wouldsay is that this is your moment to
(05:05):
decide your brand and how yourpersonal brand accompanies and
joins.
and builds with the brand of
company you've chosen to be with.
So for myself, when I joined MCAP,
what I loved about it was I wasinnovative.
It was an underdog at the time.
It wanted great things and it
wanted to make a name for itself.
Well, nothing could have matched
up with me in the moment betterthan MCAP.
(05:27):
It's like looking in the mirror.
Right.
I just started talking big becauseMCAP was talking big.
And I started talking about what Iwanted to do and how I wanted to
do it.
And it was such an amazing moment
at the age of 34 when I actuallybecame the vice president of MCAT.
And so many of my broker partnersremembered that day at the golf
(05:49):
tournament.
So I'm curious, do you introduce
yourself as the VP of sales now?Or is there some other
introductory title in which you goby?
Yeah.
You know, it's funny.
Titles meant a lot to me when Iwas younger.
That was the indication of growth.
That was the signifier that I had
reached another level.
Now I look at it very differently.
My voicemail doesn't even have mytitle in it.
You know, my email does.
(06:11):
It's official.
MCAT email address.
But overall, when I go to events,
I talk to people and I simply saythat my name is Megan and I happen
to be in sales.
I happen to help people connect
and I often allow different groupsof MCAT to collaborate to create
great decisions.
I think you do get to a point
(06:33):
where you're more than happy tointroduce your people by their
titles to show how all your peoplehave come and to celebrate their
success.
But there is a moment and there is
actually a book on it called TheSecond Mountain where it describes
how you do get to a point whenyour moment is more about helping
others and about helping yourself.
And that is a good transition for
(06:55):
us all to finally make.
And there is a reason for that
first mountain to exist to get youto where you want to go.
that But there is a moment whenthat does all change.
I agree.
And I often relate this back to
people when they talk about money.
So it's typically very wealthy
people that are the first to tellyou that money doesn't matter.
Money won't buy you happiness.
Money won't buy all these things.
(07:17):
But the people who haven't made ityet, let's say, they're going
after that, right?And they're like, okay, I'll
figure that out when I get there.
But it's very easy to say in
hindsight that money doesn'tmatter.
And it's very easy to say inhindsight that title doesn't
matter.
But when you want it.
It's important and it will driveyou and it will help you shape the
person that you want to become.
And if you're doing the right
things, it will also help shapeyour actions, which I don't think
(07:38):
is a is a bad thing in itself.
But, you know, there's one of my
favorite things, which is what gotyou here won't get you there.
So at some point shedding that toknow that, like, OK, I no longer
need to carry this raft.
around anymore.
Like this come up in story that Ibuilt myself around is, is no
longer necessary.
And instead we've arrived and I'm
going to be comfortable with whereI'm at today.
(07:58):
And I'm going to have some funwith that.
Another thing that you'recomfortable with that I think is
probably made to be uncomfortablefor a lot of people unnecessarily
in our industry is the titlesales.
And I actually have noticed thisabout you and I've noticed this
about the MCAP team is that youguys are very open about the fact
that you work in sales and yourjob is to drive sales.
And I think for maybe a decade orso, like people just started like
trying to shed the title as if itwas a poor thing.
(08:22):
But I've noticed maybe aresurgence.
Can you maybe just speak to howyou guys think about sales
culturally and how you personallythink about that?
think about that?Years ago, nearly.
I would say 17 years ago, Iremember I did a presentation to
brokers and I actually showed apicture of a cat walking out of a
bag.
And I said, this is a message to
all of you.
The cat's out of the bag.
I'm in sale.
I'm here to tell you what I do.
(08:43):
I'm here to tell you what I want.
I'm here to ask it directly from
each and every one of you.
If you like what I say and you
like what I do, that I amexpecting business.
And it was pretty shocking to thegroup.
Usually they come in and they tryto hide that fact.
And I said, I know, I don't knowwhy it's a point of shame.
(09:04):
I think sales is one of the mostincredible things as human beings
we do.
And most people will not recognize
that in 99 % of the jobs outthere, you are selling to some
extent.
Selling is about understanding
other people.
not manipulating other people.
The problem is sales has beengiven a dirty word and it ain't
dirty at all.
In fact, it's amazing.
It's creative.
It's curious.
It's dynamic.
It's evolving.
It's changing.
And it's all about listening.
I mean, I want a person to say tome, I want to sell to you, Megan.
(09:29):
So please tell me everything aboutyou because I'm going to learn it.
And then I'm going to sell youwhat's only applicable to you and
your needs.
I don't want someone who's
pretending to be my friend.
I want someone who is looking to
be my friend so we can mutuallybenefit from the transaction.
I mean, my husband always jokesaround, can I please speak to my
wife, not Megan McDonald of MCAT?Because at the end of the day, at
(09:54):
end of the day, I'm looking forcollaboration.
I'm looking for a win -win.
Paul Bruce, who's my boss, one of
my greatest mentors, he said, abad deal will never turn into a
good deal.
And a bad deal is when one person
is winning more than the other.
And those deals never last.
So the sales at MCAP that we do,we are unfiltered.
We want your business.
(10:14):
We love your business.
You are chosen market mortgagebrokers.
We will do anything.
to try and create this
partnership.
So we want to hear about
everything you're doing, whyyou're doing it, and how we might
be able to help.
And if we can help, we ask for
your business.
I love that.
It actually brings me back to mydays as an account executive,
(10:38):
which is the equivalent of a BDMover here in the Canadian side.
And I was in the U .S.
at that time.
And I used to have a policy whereI wouldn't sign up a new
accountant.
lest they were ready to submit
their first mortgage inside of thefirst 72 hours.
And that was my rule.
And I would talk to these
(10:59):
brokerages.
They were so used to hearing from
account executives or BDMs, as wecall them here, who were just
saying like, sign up with me, signup with me, sign up with me, work
with us and whatnot.
And they were just willing to like
send them over this, you know,sign up package.
They get the package back andthey're like, all right, you're
(11:20):
all activated.
You're good to go.
You can start submitting wheneveryou're ready.
And I had a whole process builtaround it.
And our company ended up buildingan entire process around it.
You had mandatory training thatyou had to do in order to be able
to submit to us.
You had to fill out a couple
additional forms.
We actually added friction rather
than removing friction.
And then came up with volume
commitments.
And then I personally came up with
my own.
I need to deal within the first 72
(11:40):
hours.
Otherwise, you're not working with
me.
And the reason why was I looked at
the data.
gone on weeks, months, like once
30 days or 90 days had passed andthey hadn't submitted a deal.
The chance of them partnering withyou or zero.
of them partnering with you orzero.
Yeah, we just weren't part oftheir go -to set of lenders.
And I would tell them allbeforehand, here's the suite of
products that we offer.
what type of business do you do
now in the States?I will say the amount of data that
(12:01):
you have is vast.
Like you actually know where they
do their mortgages, what productsare doing outside Canada, a lot of
its guesswork, but you can stillhave the same type of interview.
The brokers didn't know we hadthat data, but we would have open
conversations and I would say, howmuch business did you do last
year?Where did you do that business?
Like by region and by product andall that stuff.
And then say, you know what?I think maybe we should work
(12:24):
together.
Sometimes often say like, I don't
think we're a great lender for youand the type of business that
you're doing.
And if I would ultimately come to
the idea where I'm like, Hey, it'stime to actually sell.
I think we have a good partnershipthat'll work.
Then it was, do you think you cansubmit a deal to me in the next
three days?If not, then, you know, let's put
this off a little while.
And if they're like, yeah, I've
(12:46):
got one for you right now.
I'm like, awesome.
Let's go.
I've got one for you right now.
I'm like, awesome.
Let's go.
I think that's fantastic.
There is such a benefit of
immediacy in that partnership.
Number one, because you get a
commitment.
Number two, because they try you
out.
Number three, you get to find out
if there's something wrong withthat relationship really quickly.
Because here's what we don't sellat MCAT.
We don't sell perfection.
We sell partnership.
So let's say you do send us thatdeal within the first three days.
(13:08):
We're going to find out.
What went wrong along the process?
Something happened and we're goingto rectify it really quickly.
And then we're going to be thereassurance that we're the type of
company, even if it's not perfect,it's going to work in the end for
you.
And I think there's something so
wonderful about keeping timelines,having data and being vulnerable.
It's a salesperson and talkingabout the types of things that can
go wrong in our mortgage processand the types of things we do when
things go wrong, as well as theeveryday things that just go
fantastic.
I mean, when you think about the
(13:30):
amount of volume that MCAP does ina day and to think that one
escalation a month may hit my desktells you that we rely on an
amazing amount.
process and systems that have been
challenged and tried and revisedfor 25 years.
Those are the conversations I havewith brokers.
I love that idea of basicallyknowing things are going to go
wrong in advance.
Yeah.
Do you ever just tell brokerslike, hey, things are going to
(13:51):
fall apart sometimes and we'll behere to fix it?
Yeah.
Because here's the thing.
I mean, I've been in this job atMCAP nearly 20 years, as I
mentioned, and there's nothing youcan't resolve.
there's nothing you can't resolvei mean at the end of the day we
have a lot of power to do theright thing it's whether a lender
chooses to do the right thing yeahAnd I think that reframes and
(14:11):
makes you think beyond just thenext deal, because oftentimes as a
broker, it is hard to get past thenext deal.
I mean, how many times have youheard, like, I'm never using you
guys again?It's like, okay, I mean, you can
only do that so many times beforeyou're just out of lenders.
So instead of that, of that, let'swork together, right?
Right, right.
(14:31):
And I mean, here's the beautiful
thing is when I think of amortgage broker and a lender, I
think then adding in that client,that's the triangle, right?
If the lender and the broker onthe side of the table working
together for the client, then it'sa win -win.
Whenever the lender and the brokerfeel like they're at odds, that's
(14:52):
when the client gets lost.
That's when the transaction gets
lost.
You know, I remember I had a
broker call me one day.
He was immediately started yelling
on the phone.
And I said, I just need to slow
you down.
I need to stop you right here.
I don't think we've ever met.
And he said, no, I'm so angry.
And I said, if we had met and ifwe had already spoken, you
wouldn't be yelling right nowbecause you know, you would know
(15:13):
that no one has to yell at MeganMcDonald to get her to do the
right thing.
So why don't we start again?
And you can tell me what happened.
And then I'm going to tell you how
much I'm going to help you.
And he was just completely taken
back.
And I said, so let's start again.
Ring, ring.
Hi, I'm Megan.
he was just That's fantastic.
I love that.
(15:34):
So I want to go back to somethingyou said earlier because you talk
about Paul a lot.
And I love that the two of you
have that sort of mentor -menteerelationship and you've got a
team.
And it seems to be really
important to all of you guys towork really, really well together.
How much longer has Paul spent atMCAP?
Then you, I'm curious, because hesort of seems to be able to have
(15:56):
created and curated this culturein and around your team that was
one of growth.
Because you said you joined MCAT
because their story seemed a lotlike yours.
It's like the Alexander Hamiltonkid from the outside.
I'm coming up and, you know, we'regoing to figure this thing out.
We're going to do big, amazingthings.
And for some reason, that's liketends to like start attracting
people of similar mindsets.
So like that's Paul and then
(16:16):
that's you and then that's theteam.
How does all that get createdculturally?
Yeah, you know, Paul's been withthe company over 30 years.
And with that comes just suchextensive information and
education on every process andevery growth spurt and every
lesson that came from that.
And I think when Paul talks about
MCAP, he speaks about it as ifit's an extension of himself.
And that's really what you want.
You want an executive team that
(16:39):
believes that the company is partof them because the ego always
does everything for ourselves.
Well, imagine if a company was an
extension of thyself.
You are going to make the right
decisions.
You're going to make clear
decisions and you're going todrive a culture that says we're
going to do our best every singleday.
When I met Paul Bruce, I was veryyoung.
(17:00):
I had actually been asked to joina group, a small group of MCappers
within Toronto.
And Paul and I won the same award
on the same night and had nevermet a day before that.
And what was interesting aboutthat day is we got up there, we
took our awards, we shook ourhands, and we didn't speak for
three more years.
And then on the day that we spoke
was because I was consideringleaving MCAP and the company was
going through some changes.
(17:21):
And I was recognizing that those
changes were happening.
And I wasn't sure if I was part of
those changes.
And Paul came to meet with me.
He was actually, a lot of peoplecame to him and said, you should
really meet with Megan.
And he said, I don't think I know
(17:42):
Megan.
No, you do know Megan.
You met Megan on a stage years agowhen you won an award together.
And he said, all right.
And he came to the office that I
was working at.
And within 30 minutes, he wrote on
a whiteboard the entire vision ofMCAT for the next 10 years that he
had in mind.
And I just was blown away.
Number one, that someone wouldshare a vision like that with
(18:04):
somebody.
number two with no strings
attached, and that he wasvulnerable and strong enough to
put his ideas out there on theline.
And when he was done, he said, doyou want to be part of something
great?You know, the joke of Jerry
Maguire, you had me at hello.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So you have a girl who dreams big,
(18:24):
and then somebody else puts theirdream out in front of them and
says, let's go do this together.
go do Say, okay.
And just so you know, like that'show it gets.
So like the next person that talksto me, I'm outlining the dream.
The next person talks to the nextperson, they're outlining the
dream.
And all of a sudden people are
talking about this dream of MCAP,going to be number one, going to
(18:47):
grow, going to acquire, going tobuild.
person And people want to be apart of something, but most
importantly, they want to be apart of something great.
Yeah, I agree.
So what is that thing now?
Because if I'm not mistaken,MCAP's number one.
If not number one, then it'sdefinitely knocking on the door.
It's up there.
But what do you guys get in a room
now?I mean, I've been through that,
(19:08):
right?I was with Rocket in the U .S.
We were the 12th largest lender inMichigan, I think -ish, when I
started.
And then went on to become the
largest lender in the world atthat time.
And actually, the idea of beingnumber one.
to become number one.
I don't even know if we fully
(19:28):
believed it when we were sayingit, right?
Like we kind of believed it.
It looked great on a whiteboard,
but you're talking about passingChase and Bank of America and
Wells Fargo.
It'd be similar to, you know,
being a tiny little player inCanada today talking about passing
Royal Bank and TD and people go,okay, that's great.
But then you actually go out anddo it.
(19:49):
Wow.
But how does that conversation
sound now for you guys aftergetting so big and seeing so much
success?be actually Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you know, it's a funnything.
You can be number one.
That's great.
But you can be number one in amillion different categories.
So you can be the biggest.
And then the question is, are you
the most innovative?Are you the most efficient?
Are you the greatest culture?Like you can pick a million things
(20:10):
that you want to be number one.
And I think being the biggest was
one of the goals we wanted to benumber one.
But we also want to be number onein technology.
We also want to be number one whenit comes to changes that come with
technology like AI.
We also want to become number one
to be the number one best place towork.
We want to be number one increating the most dynamic and
(20:31):
interesting culture in Canada.
So I think for MCAP, it doesn't
just apply to volume or it doesn'tjust apply to scale.
We have a lot of different goalsto be number one.
Our business continues to shift.
And it's been amazing to see how
it's shifted in diversity.
It's been interesting to see how
we've led a huge charge in womengaining leadership roles in our
business.
When Elaine Taylor and I became co
-VPs, we were the only co -femaleVPs in the industry.
(20:52):
And that was over 10 years agotoday.
But since then, we've seen anevolution of women taking over
large leadership roles in ourindustry, which is fantastic.
You can lead in a milliondifferent ways.
And what we're interested in,honestly, is like, which one will
we pick today to try to take on?I mean, most recently we did over
the last couple of years, our BlueCulture campaign.
We wanted to do one of the mostdynamic, fun, educational videos
(21:15):
regarding our brokers and why theychose MCAT.
We chose one of the best groups todo the video recording.
We chose the best brokers acrossthe country to interview.
And I have brokers every day andour own competitors who come up to
me and speak to me about blueculture.
So for now, we're happy to benumber one.
was But number one in whatcategory?
And so I'll tell you, the bigthing for us is to be number one
(21:35):
subservicing company in Canada.
We want to make sure that we're
growing and helping the Canadianconsumer find options.
And subservicing is a big part ofour business.
We also want to be the number onewhen it comes to technology for
clients to view their mortgage.
We call that MyMCAP.
You can go in, search yourmortgage, make some changes.
We were the first company inCanada to offer a switch during
(21:57):
COVID where you could go in.
online, click a button to defer
your payments.
You didn't have to wait.
You didn't have to call.
You didn't have to justify.
So as you can see, there's a fewways we like to be number one, and
that's going to keep changing andthat's going to keep evolving.
And hopefully we're going to worktoward it.
(22:18):
I like that because I heard thesame many years ago.
I say it all the time, butespecially when people start
quoting the number of years atwhich they've been doing
something.
And a lot of times I was like,
Hey, I've been doing this 20years.
And most people truthfully havedone like one year of experience,
one year of work repeated 20times.
So if you're not actually learninganything new and you're not.
(22:39):
actually growing for all thesubsequent years, then one year is
as good as 20 for most people.
And something I think about is
like, I'm typically trying toidentify the people who actually
are learning something new overthe course of 20 or, you know, in
Paul's case, 32 years or whateverit is.
Because if you're constantlythinking about what to do next and
going out and tackling that andthen teaching and teaching and
(23:03):
teaching and learning and learningand learning, well then.
you're actually learning over thecourse of 32 years.
There's actually 32 years worth ofknowledge.
But if all you've got is one yearof knowledge repeated 32 times,
that's not really helpful.
No, and it's not exciting.
And I will tell you, there isnever a dull day at MCAP because
if I was to describe MCAP as acompany, I would say we're a bunch
of people that are likely shouldhave been business for self who
(23:26):
have come together under a brand.
There's not a day that goes by
that somebody... at the executivelevel will refer to their KPIs or
their objectives.
Like we know them, they're
tattooed on us and it simply ishashtag winning.
Like it is a desire we all havewhenever we're meeting.
It's how can we be better?How can we be bigger?
It is a room of entrepreneurialthinkers.
It is not a room of people waitingto get a list of tasks to achieve.
(23:48):
Paul Bruce, I think it was acouple of years ago, he's laughing
at me.
I said, I was so stressed out.
I had so much on my plate and hestarted laughing.
He goes, well, you don't have meto blame.
I haven't actively been your bosssince the day you started.
You've been your boss.
So if you're overloaded, then
you're the boss here, not me.
He was right.
(24:09):
I mean, at the end of the day.
Paul doesn't call me and say, what
have you achieved?I phone Paul and tell him what I'm
going to do to change thelandscape of the mortgage
environment in Canada.
That is the way the game is played
at MCAT.
That's an awesome way to think
about it.
(24:29):
I often think about that as it
relates back to my calendar.
Sometimes I get like really busy,
I'm sure like you do or others do,and I'll have to remind myself.
I literally control it.
Like I have anybody telling me
like what to do every minute of myday or telling me when I can like
take a lunch or not take a lunchand hold on, let's take stock
here.
Where can I spend my time that
(24:52):
make things most impactful so thatwe can go out and we can achieve
our goals and I can achieve mypersonal goals as we go along.
Like something as simple as bakingmeditation into my day.
Something I did a few years agothat, you know, felt like a big
deal for me at the time, but.
I knew that there was this period
of the day where I would, by 1230,one o 'clock, I would need a
(25:16):
reset.
But instead of actually resetting,
I would barrel through and I wouldjust get more miserable and more
agitated as the day went on.
And I'm like, why?
Who's telling me to do this?No one is telling me that I can't
take 30 minutes in the middle ofthe day to stop, pause, reset, and
then have a great afternoon afterthe fact.
I took control.
Yeah.
And I think many, many of myfamily members will tell you I'm a
(25:38):
control freak.
What I am is I'm a choice freak.
I know this is all my choice.
I know that every decision I make
in the day is for me to make.
No one is making me show up.
No one is making me do anything.
And I think when you come back to
that place of power, you will ownyour day to day.
And a couple of things thathappened a few years ago is I
(26:01):
really dove in as you're talkingabout meditation.
I really dove into health andwellness.
I mean, I would start anoccasional national meeting with
how many glasses of water have youdrank today?
It's your choice.
How many of you have had your
greens today?That's your choice.
How many of you got eight hourssleep last night?
That's your choice.
How many of you are exercising
four times a week?That's your choice.
This is an era where people oftenfeel their life just takes off and
(26:22):
they have no choice.
There's so much choice in the day.
And especially if you are in thisindustry, this industry has tons
of opportunity for people who wantit.
There is tons of way tocommunicate today through the web
and social media if you want to.
So there is never anyone holding
us hostage.
And the minute you start to
understand how much power youhave, you wouldn't believe what
you would choose to do with yourday.
And it is your choice.
(26:42):
It's absolutely your choice.
I often ask people the question,are you owning your day or is the
day owning you?You could see it on people's faces
sometimes, right?It's like, oh, this day's owning
you.
Well, what if instead we like took
a step back and what would it looklike for you to actually own the
day?And it was something I did coming
into 2025 was I started with anexercise, like basically framed a
question.
(27:02):
I feel like I've had a great day
when, and I'm a planner.
We're probably similar in a lot of
ways.
I'm a I can definitely be accused
of being a control freak.
It's mostly fun, but not always
for everybody in my life.
And I always start with like
really, really, really big dreamsand goals.
And that's okay.
Cause I appreciate, you know, just
having a big vision and being avisionary, but what often creates
(27:24):
the end goal or the outcome iswhat I do in the day to day, just
like literally day by day by day,not even in 90 days, forget
quarters, forget all that stuff.
Just like, what do I do today?
I wake up super early.
I get my workout in, I've already
had water.
And then I've like accomplished
like five things before anyoneelse has even started their day.
I'm like, that's an.
awesome feeling.
I am fully caught up on emails andtext message returns and all these
(27:47):
other things.
By the time my team walks into the
office for the day, I'm like, hey,how are you doing?
I'm in a great mood.
I'm greeting people.
I just feel... fantastic.
And I just took control of my own
day to day and it'll slip on meover time.
And, you know, right now I'm in aseven day a week workout routine.
(28:08):
I'll miss a day or two here orthere and then I'll have to come
back and I'll start a new streak.
So I build it in streaks, but that
is so, so important.
You sound really motivated by
going out and just winning thatday.
So I'm curious now, what are youmost motivated by and what are
some things that you're personallyattacking in the day to day?
Yeah, great question.
So I think I'll start with
(28:29):
something a little controversialthat I actually believe that
motivation is kind of crap.
I believe that you are either born
with an insatiable driver or not.
And I meet people every day and I
can tell who has it and I can tellwho doesn't.
And some of us just play by therule book of the robot and we put
out our day and we do it and youcan get it done.
You can get it done like that allday long.
But if you are a person that wasborn with an insatiable drive, and
(28:54):
albeit when I was very young andwent in very wrong directions, and
I was a very bad girl sometimes,but that is because I wanted to do
things.
And sometimes the rule book didn't
apply.
And I think for me.
I have an insatiable desire tolearn.
I have an insatiable desire togrow.
When I think about not whatmotivates me, but what are my
values?My values are education.
My values are growth.
(29:14):
My values are contribution.
My values are helping others.
My value is showing up and being
present.
And my whole day revolves around
that.
So a great example is if you were
to look at my every day, it'salmost the exact same.
And it's the exact same because Iasked myself, what do I want that
day to look like?And what I want it to look like is
I'm going to look organized.
I'm going to look professional.
(29:34):
I'm going to look dynamic.
I'm going to look in it.
I want to look like I can have theanswers or find the answers.
I'm going to show up curious.
I'm going to show up open -minded.
Well, what does it take to dothat?
Well, it takes getting up early.
I work east and west.
I have a management team that isup at their desk at 6 a .m.
my time.
So that means I'm getting up even
earlier.
That means I'm making sure I'm
eating well and getting rightsleep and going to bed on time.
(30:00):
There is a program that I've livedby and I love by because it has
helped me be the person that Ialways wanted to be.
And again, that came down tochoice.
And things have shown up in mylife and there's been
disappointments and there havebeen personal challenges and
there's been professionalchallenges.
But I always sit back and I lookat that commitment I've made to
(30:22):
myself to get to the goals I'vealways wanted.
And by the way, it ain't sexy.
It ain't sexy at all.
In fact, it's very hard and it'svery disciplined.
But then I can be here with youright now and be incredibly
engaged, positive and passionateabout what I do because I do those
other things that aren't so great.
It is my moment to shine.
Because I've done the work in theoff hours to make sure the on
hours are nothing but on.
(30:42):
So I'm curious to get into a
little bit more detail on thatbecause what you just said is so
important and so impactful.
And if I'm listening, I go,
awesome.
How do I do that?
So A, it sounds like that flamebetter be born lit.
It's hard to light it otherwise,right?
I love that you said thatmotivation is often overrated and
oftentimes misunderstood and youcan't teach that part, but you can
(31:05):
inspire, I believe, right?So you can inspire somebody who's
already motivated.
You can influence that, but you
can't get them to do the day -to-day of what's it going to take.
So you talked about... having astructure, what does structure
look like for you such that youcan go out and you can make the
most of each day?So you can inspire somebody Yeah,
it's systems.
You got to build a life of
(31:26):
systems.
So I look at every day as a
system.
I look at food as fuel.
I look at sleep as restorativerest from my brain, my energy.
I look at fitness as strain.
Am I hitting enough strain so I
can sleep well at night?Am I hitting enough strains so I
can have a healthy heart?And if I have a healthy heart, my
blood pressure is going to be low.
If I do enough weight training,
can I make sure that I have enoughmobility and strength to have a
(31:47):
day that is 10 hours on the phone,nonstop, making magic happen?
I mean, at the end of the day.
I got really intensely into the
coaching culture and understandingwhat creates great performance.
And quite often what I foundmyself was looking at Olympians,
looking at great athletes, andthey live and die by systems.
Whether you're a great footballplayer, whether you're a great
tennis player, you have systems inwhat you eat, how much water you
(32:10):
drink, the food you choose to eat.
I mean, I have decided three years
ago to go sober.
I'm not an advocate for sobriety.
But that was a system that workedfor me.
I looked at everything as asystem, not just a pleasure.
And some people might go, youknow, your life must not be filled
with so much pleasure.
(32:32):
I love working.
I love giving 100%.
I love showing up for my husband.
I love showing up for my friendsand family.
I love being generous with my timeand my fortune.
But these systems are what allowme to do that, right?
This is about understanding ourpersonal limitations.
And then what can we do to perhapsmove above them?
So for myself, when I looked atmyself a couple of years ago, my
(32:59):
husband had a tragic accident.
I fell into PTSD.
I was deeply struggling.
And where did I go?
I went to my systems.
I took a look at what I was doing
and how I was doing it.
I went and got a therapist.
I went and got brain therapy.
(33:20):
I said to everybody, I want you to
imagine that I'm going to theOlympics in six months.
And in fact, I was going up for apromotion for senior vice
president.
When my husband had his accident,
my promotion was on hold.
Who's mom?
No hold here.
How do I get back in the game?
And I... reached out to all myresources, my mentors, my coaches,
and I have many.
And I said, what is it going to
(33:41):
take for Megan McDonald to becomea talker for game again?
So this promotion is in questionthat this is the life I want to
live.
How can we get there?
And one of those questions thatcame up was what about sobriety?
And if you're in sales, you have agood laugh and you say, that's
funny.
Talk to you later.
But I had to decide for myself.
If I could make that leap and what
(34:02):
that leap would mean to mybusiness, what that leap would
make for my personal life and whatthat leap would make for me.
And so I took it, I built it intomy systems, and now I'm three
years sober.
One of the best decisions I ever
made, but for me.
because that system allowed for
better sleep, that system allowedfor less anxiety, that system
(34:24):
allowed for less depression, thatsystem allowed for me to get up
earlier to go to the gym, thatsystem allowed for less recovery
days.
Like it all just became a system
to me.
And listen, if you can run your
life by default, God bless you.
I wish I was one of them.
I'm not.
Yeah.
My life by design.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I break away for even just a
(34:45):
moment, that's why I say it.
workout 70s a week because for me,
not sober, but I know the cost ofa drink on a Saturday night means
that I'm going to grind through mySunday morning.
I know what the cost is.
Like I know what it is.
Luckily, I've never been a heavydrinker anyways.
Yeah.
Or someone who, you know, partakes
in such a way that like makes mefeel terrible.
(35:06):
But I know, you know, even thecost of like staying up too late
on that night.
even without a drink and waking up
with a raspy voice and a littleless sleep than I'd like, but
still having to like do the hardthing the next morning.
It's why I do the hard thing thenext morning, because that's
actually more important to me thanthe thing from the night before.
When you start to recalibrate thatand you build a system around it
(35:27):
and you push yourself to like stayon track to that system, it does.
create balance.
And by the way, the best
salespeople that I've ever seen,they're incredibly systematic.
I know that there's just some raw,talented people out there.
I've seen them do it, but thequestion becomes for how long I
think, because I'll take theperson.
whose calendar looks robotic everyday for 20 years, over a 20 -year
time frame, compared to the personwho's just naturally talented.
(35:48):
I think I did have the gift ofbeing naturally talented in my
early years, but as I started tobecome an adult, natural and raw
talent wasn't enough.
It is, in a way, like you said,
like being a professional athletewhere, hey, raw talent in high
school might be enough.
Then you get to, let's say,
university level sports.
And oh my goodness, the rest of
these kids are all taking itpretty seriously.
They're raw talent and they'rededicated.
(36:10):
And then you go to the next leveland it's like, oh my gosh, not
only are they talented, they'rededicated, like just another level
of dedication that I'm playingagainst now.
So like the higher level you playthe game, the harder it gets,
right?You know, that it, but then know,
it's amazing that you brought thatup because that was the kickoff to
2025, whereas talent is notenough.
And in this game, in this market,it's getting more and more
(36:32):
competitive.
And if you're sitting back on the
laurels of your talent, you are inyesterday's club, not today's
winning circle.
And this is what recognizing
consistent evolution is all about.
I mean, and by the way, I don't
make this stuff up.
It is all around us.
I mean, I'm a knowledge junkie.
So it's a podcast every morning
while I'm making my coffee beforeI'm even up.
(36:53):
It's a book.
It's this, it's a calm app.
I mean, I learned from the calmapp, LeBron James did a whole
session on why sleep is criticalfor him being the number one
basketball player in the world, ifyou believe you.
And I think there's just, there'sso much out there if you dare to
listen and dare to try it and say,you know what, if this person can
be successful and they do this,and this person can be successful
(37:16):
and they do this, what if I triedthat on?
Not all systems are going to workfor all people.
But you can find out what it is.
I mean, a great example would be
is I wear a whoop and I study mysleep and I study my strain and I
study my stress and I monitor mybehavior based on that.
And I was able to influence myhusband to some degree to start
(37:36):
monitoring his sleep.
Well, the greatest discovery of
his life was found that all of hisREM sleep happens between 5 a .m.
and 7 a .m.
Well, I guess we're not catching
any more flights at 6 a .m.
anymore.
Like he performs at his best whenhe gets the leap between five and
seven, because over a six weekperiod, we were able to define
that that is where he gets hisdeepest and best leaves.
(37:59):
Well, then we'll just work thesystems around that.
It's that famous line.
If you don't know thyself, my God,
how can you tackle the world?Know your limits, play within it,
build your systems and have greatgoals, share them with everyone
and anyone who will ever listen,take great feedback and advice and
keep going.
Such actual.
Good takeaways on that, which Iappreciate.
I have a question for you.
(38:21):
So what are you following in the
macro right now?What are you paying attention to
at a broader scale that helps yoube a great business person and
ultimately run a great business?Yeah.
Okay.
Well, the biggest trend right now,
I would say in the industry isvolatility.
If you're not reading the news,watching the news and getting
caught up on the news of what'sgoing on in our world, you're
(38:42):
likely not going to be able togive your client.
whatever client that is, realtor,mortgage broker, referral source,
you're not going to be able togive them the comfort that you
need to give them.
Here's the thing.
People want to work with peoplethey know, like, and trust.
Well, how do you build trust?You share with them some facts and
some information about what'sgoing on in the world.
You ask them a million questionsabout what they need and what they
(39:07):
want and what they're worriedabout.
And then you help bring thattogether for them.
And so right now, because of allthe changes since COVID, I mean,
if anything has been consistentsince COVID, it's change.
And if change is the oneconsistent thing right now, you
should be up to date with what itis.
And that means not necessarilyhaving an opinion.
And I want to be a little bit firmon that.
(39:27):
The world is not short on opinion.
It is very short on people that
understand it and able to place itwith that client's needs and
wants.
And so if there's a trend right
now, for me, it's educatingyourself on what's happening in
our industry, interest rates, thecurrent trends, what some bank
economists are viewing as thefuture, and then sharing that with
their clients.
So they know that, number one,
I've chosen an educated source.
I've chosen a source that
(39:48):
understands what's going on in ourindustry and wants to choose the
best and most secure product frommy circumstance.
So I think that right now.
is what people are needing most is
assurance.
And I think that's one of the ways
to do it.
For sure.
I mean, that's the impact ofmortgage brokers is knowledge and
being able to share that and thenultimately helping clients to the
right financial decisions.
Going to impact, I want to close
(40:10):
by just asking you about yours andwhat you want for the time ahead.
I mean, you've accomplished someamazing things.
You talk about your younger years,you're still young.
So presumably you've got quite theroad ahead, especially given all
the health.
So what do you want to accomplish
in your life and career?And how do you think about impact?
Yeah, great question.
You know, impact for me has
definitely evolved.
So at one point, impact for me was
very selfish in that sense of whatcan I do?
(40:32):
What will that look like?What will that get me?
And I remember years ago, I had ahealth care and I was sitting at
the hospital with my mother.
And my mother is from New York
City.
She's very honest.
She's very forthright.
And she started laughing as I'm
sitting there because what am Idoing?
I'm returning emails on my phoneas I'm about to go into surgery.
(40:53):
And she started laughing.
I said, okay, Mary, what are you
laughing about?And she goes, oh, I was just
thinking about what your tombstonewould say.
And I said, oh, really?That's lovely.
Would you mind sharing?She goes, yes.
Megan McDonald, an outstandingemployee.
And I think that was a wake -upcall to me about what that legacy
would be and how do I want to beremembered.
And that's definitely not it.
think Probably for my 20s, maybe I
(41:14):
would have taken it.
But now I am turning 45 this year
and I really want to be known as aperson that supported other
leaders.
I want to help create amazing
people who want to do amazingwork.
I'm going to give them a voice.
I want to give them a channel.
I want to give them anopportunity.
I want to be known as a tremendousfamily member that was generous
and giving and kind.
I want to be known as an amazing
(41:35):
wife that stood by somebody's sideand said, you can do anything.
And I want to be known at MCAP.
as a leader that tried new things
and had the courage to makemistakes and try again.
So I think that's the legacy I'mlooking for.
Again, it's not perfection.
It is partnership.
I'm not alone in this world.
I did not get here by myself and I
will not get to the next level bymyself.
(41:57):
And so it is about community forme and how can I build that?
And how can I instill in otherpeople that is community that will
get them where they want to go oneday?
That was wonderful.
Thank you for sharing.
And thank you for being on thepodcast today, Megan.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Yeah, no, I really appreciate yourtime.
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