December 11, 2024 • 27 mins
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, Bekim is joined by Brendan Woodfull. Brendan is the Divisional VP of Sales for Rocket Pro, a Division of Rocket Mortgage Canada. Rocket Pro is a team dedicated to helping broker partners submit deals to the Rocket Mortgage Canada lending channel. A former NCAA athlete who has worked for Rocket Mortgage in both Canada and the US, Brendan uses his experiences to partner with mortgage agents and brokers from across the country.
Brendan is here to discuss: → His journey to and within the NCAA playing soccer, the impacts a team's culture has on success, and the skills he's been able to transfer from high-performance sport to a high-performance career. → How much every day tasks are actually worth, building error-free and efficient processes, and streamlining tasks for productivity. → What Agents actually need from lenders, communication as a necessity for client care, and the generational wealth he wants to leave his future kids.
Brendan Woodfull's LinkedIn: @BrendanWoodfull
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank you for listening to theLending Thoughts podcast sponsored
(00:02):
by Rocket Pro.
Today I'm joined by my guest,
Brendan Woodfull.
Brendan is the Divisional Vice
President of Rocket Pro, adivision of Rocket Mortgage
Canada.
Brendan specifically leads our
business dealing with mortgageagents and brokers from across the
country.
He's learned so much through that
process.
I thought it would be awesome to
(00:22):
have a conversation with him.
We dive into the broker community.
We dive into talking about sportsand how it pertains to team
building.
And we finish out by having a
conversation about generationalwealth, both in business and in
life.
You're not going to want to miss
this conversation.
Have a listen today.
in the day.
Brandon, thanks for joining the
(00:51):
show today.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
It's good to have you.
Long time friend.
Yeah.
Going back to our days workingtogether in the United States.
Yeah.
We go way back.
Yes, we do.
Also a founding team member of
Edison Financial, now known asRocket.
So it's been the last four and ahalf, going on five years working
together here as well.
So it's going to be an exciting
conversation.
I know a bit about you, but not
all.
And I think it would be awesome if
(01:11):
you told our audience a little bitmore about yourself.
So can you tell us your life storyin 60 seconds or less, please?
60 seconds is going a is going tobe tough, but I'll try.
So I was born in Ottawa, came toWindsor, just outside of Windsor,
Lakeshore, Ontario, when I wasfour or five years old and grew up
in Windsor for the better part ofmy life.
When I was 15, I got signed toToronto FC Academy.
So I ended up moving to Toronto inhigh school, actually lived with a
(01:34):
Billet family, did that wholething, ended up getting a
scholarship to go to Oregon StateUniversity.
So literally went to the otherside of the country and then ended
up transferring to OaklandUniversity, which is in Michigan.
So came back this way, was therefor the last three years of my
university career, had some badinjuries my senior year of
university and kind of changed myperspective.
You know, I probably could havekept going and maybe played in
(01:57):
Australia or something.
Wouldn't have made it to the top
level, but probably could havekept going with soccer.
But those injuries kind of made mechange the direction of where I
was going.
And ultimately got referred into
Quicken Loans, Rocket Mortgagetoday as a mortgage associate.
So started working there.
I was there for about a year and a
half.
I am Canadian, so my visa expired.
I had to come back to Canada.
(02:19):
End ended up going to Toronto,
getting a job on Bay Street, Ithink, Montreal, working as an
advisor.
And then Chad Weinbaum, our old
CRO, my old VP at Quicken Loans,gave me a call and said, come to
Canada as Edison Financial.
And yeah, worked my way up from a
mortgage agent, director of sales,RVP, leading the brokerage, most
recently jumping over to RocketProand leading RocketPro.
So it's a lot there.
(02:40):
It was a lot.
I know you start.
Do I start in Ottawa?
Do I start in Oregon?Do I start in Michigan?
But I'm curious.
It's interesting that you get to
see this mortgage game in a coupleof different countries.
And I want to learn a little bitmore about that in terms of the
differences of what you've seen onboth sides of the border but
before we jump in i want to justunderstand like what role do you
(03:02):
think soccer played on yourability to jump into the corporate
world because i mean you've playedi mean that's some pretty high
level soccer there it's quitecompetitive right yeah you're
saying like fc and you knowplaying at a couple different
universities and playing in topclubs growing up but like what did
you learn from top level soccerthat you brought into the business
world that you still carry withyou now yeah it's a good question
(03:23):
i think right away just thediscipline like to get to that
level on any sport like you needto have discipline you need now
yeah it's a good question i thinkright away just the discipline
like to get to that level on anysport like you need to have
discipline you need to show upevery day your life is that and
you have to put the effort and thetime into your craft.
And I don't think that's anydifferent with anything.
But I'd say the biggest thing thatkind of helped me is the drive and
the motivation that you have towin in sports, jumping into a
(03:45):
sales role, being as a mortgageassociate or mortgage banker at
Quicken Loans in the U.S., youknow, it's the strong survive and
you got to put up the numbers tokind of stay around and kind of
hang in there.
So just having that drive and
motivation to win and hit thosenumbers and hit those targets more
than anything, I would say thatkind of came from my background of
sports.
(04:05):
Yeah.
How about teams?Something I think about about i
also grew up playing soccerrepetitively as well but being in
that environment was the firstopportunity that i got to feel
like i was a part of the team muchlike the team that i felt like i
was with when i was playing soccerwhen you play at a very high level
in business or in sport there aresome universal truths to teams.
And is there anything that yousort of took away, you think
(04:29):
carried with you from the teamdays into the business world?
Yeah.
I mean, one of the reasons I
transferred from Oregon State toOakland was because I went in with
a freshman class of 12 freshmen.
And by the time it came to summer
break, 10 of those 12 freshmen haddecided to transfer out and leave
because of the culture on theteam.
And I was left there with adecision, hey, do I want to
(04:51):
transfer?And everyone I came in here with
decided to leave.
So I ultimately made the same
decision and left and transferred.
But the team I went to at Oakland,
we're so tight knit and so close.
And whether we lost or we Oakland,
we were so tight-knit and soclose.
And whether we lost or we we werealways won, hanging together, out.
(05:11):
That camaraderie was there.
And it was a very successful team.
We went to the NCAA tournamenttwice.
And I look at our team here at andin comparison Rocket, to some of
the other teams that have been apart of Rocket Canada, we had the
benefit of being small originallyand getting really But then as we
scaled and got bigger, close.
I wouldn't say we're huge yet, but
we're, you know, a couple hundredpeople.
(05:31):
But it still feels like we havethat camaraderie and sense of
team.
I think sometimes we take it for
granted.
Like, that's not the norm always
in the workplace, sports teams,having that camaraderie that goes
a long way because ultimately itcomes from trust.
Like we trust each other, whichmeans we can push each other.
We can call each other out when noone of us is not doing something
(05:54):
the right way or I expect betterfrom you.
All that comes from the trust andthe teamwork.
Yeah, I completely I completelyagree.
So now you've taken that, youknow, originally growing out a
team in the direct consumerchannel, spun off and now lead the
rocket pro business dealing withbrokers.
And it's very different inindependent agent world, mostly,
right?It is.
You are mostly on an island.
Most independent agents work from
home.
The majority actually don't even
do it full time.
Right.
the majority actually don't evendo it full time, right?
And many don't get all the samelevels of training and morning
(06:17):
team meetings every day andmindset coaching and technical
coaching and all those otherthings.
What do you think you've learnedfrom that team aspect?
And what do you think you've beenable to observe now being into the
pro space where you think that ourindependent agents that you work
with can benefit from teamcamaraderie?
That's a good question.
I think, like you said, a lot of
(06:40):
independent agents, they're kindof out there on an island.
But what I've seen, and I've seenit with a couple of the brokerages
that we're currently working with,the ones that kind of establish
that group of brokers around them,it's almost like a small group to
lean on each other are the onesthat really progress and learn
from each other.
(07:00):
The ones that kind of stay on the
island and don't seek outcollaboration, whether that's with
brokers in your brokerage, ormaybe it's brokers from outside.
Maybe it's not even just mortgagebrokers.
Maybe it's realtors or financialadvisors.
But the ones that kind of havethat core group of people to lean
on, or financial but the ones thatkind of have that core group of
people to lean on, advisors,bounce ideas back and forth tend
to be the on, ones that areevolving and growing much faster.
(07:23):
And honestly, sometimes thosebrokers can lean on lenders as
well.
Your BDM is a great resource to
lean on and help grow yourbusiness and get ideas.
The ones that I've seen have donethat are the ones that are growing
the most.
Yeah, that's a good way to think
about it.
about it.
It's like the BDM is part of yourteam, right?
And your lenders are part of yourteam.
So you were originating mortgagesas a mortgage agent here when we
(07:44):
first started.
It gave you the benefit of seeing
how so many other lenders in ourspace actually do this job.
And now you run a lender that goesdirect to mortgage agents and asks
for their business under the ideathat, you know, you're maybe
faster or more transparent oreasier to get a hold of.
What are you hearing from agentsin that space that say, like, you
know, hey, here's what we needfrom our lenders.
Like, what do you think the agentneeds from the lenders?
(08:05):
And what did you observe in yourtime potentially that you think
you want to deliver to otheragents now?
And Yeah, there's a couple ofthings that stand out.
I'd say the first one, which haskind of been how we've gone to
market with RocketPro is speed.
But even more specifically, it's
speed to certainty.
Like, how quickly can I tell my
client that, yes, we've satisfiedall the conditions, everything's
(08:27):
looking good, we basically justneed to meet with the lawyer and
close this.
How quickly can I get to that
point?That's what brokers want.
And there's a lot of differentthings that you can do to provide
that level of speed, whether it'sprocess, whether it's technology,
but that is our thing at RocketProis speed and getting that
(08:47):
certainty as quickly as possible.
The second piece I would say is
care.
It sounds so simple, but returning
a phone call or answering everytime you get a call from a broker
as a BDM, underwriters respondingto emails, and just showing that
level of care that, hey, weunderstand there's a client at the
end of this.
And the end goal is to get that
client closed as quickly aspossible and as smoothly as
(09:10):
possible.
And just showing that level of
care that we're all in thistogether.
We're all trying to get there.
Speed and care to me are the two
things that I saw an opportunityas a broker that lenders could do
a better job of.
And that's really what we're
trying to focus on at RocketPro.
Absolutely.
So I So I think what a lot ofpeople think about lenders, they
(09:31):
don't really think abouttechnology.
And something that we talk about alot at Rocket is technology.
I'm curious, what are some thingsthat brokers ask for?
Like, how much do you ask themabout technology?
How much time do you spendlistening to their feedback
regarding technology?What do you think the current
state of technology is in thebroker-lender space?
(09:51):
And what do you want to achievethere?
Yeah.
I mean, I think there's a ton of
opportunity.
I'd say one of the most glaring
opportunities is probably in termsof document review.
When a deal gets submitted to us,how quickly can we review those
documents?And there's AI tools now that will
allow us to review those documentsquicker and essentially scan a pay
stub and say, hey, this is exactlywhat's on the application or no,
this doesn't match what's on theapplication, which frees up time
for the underwriter, which allowsus to get that deal out faster and
(10:15):
get it conditionally approvedquicker, get it to broker complete
quicker.
Speaking of brokers, that seems to
be not something necessarily thatthey're asking for, but it's what
they're looking for is, again, thespeed to certainty.
So that's a tool right away that Isee as like a big opportunity,
which we're looking into and we'retrying to implement into our
process.
But I think there's probably going
(10:37):
to be a lot of other AI tools thatare, you know, implemented into
our business to help free up timefor our underwriters, our mortgage
officers, our BDMs, and reallyjust allow us to get deals out
faster.
So said differently, not so much
front-end technology by request ofagents of their lenders, but
rather, I don't care what you haveto do.
(10:57):
I need speed of certainty.
That's what you've learned.
Yeah, exactly.
It's very interesting.
Much the same as I haveconversations both on this podcast
and with brokers directly.
It's not so much concern with
technology for the sake oftechnology, or rather technology
as an enabler.
Allow me to deliver the client
experience that I need to deliverfor my clients.
Yeah, exactly.
Clients don't care whatever your
tech stack is in the background.
(11:18):
They just want to know that it's
been super smooth to submit theirdocuments and they just heard back
as fast as possible.
I do want to go back to this point
around care though, because it'sfunny, you talked about care and
then everything you said behind itwas all in relation to
communication.
So what have you learned about
communication and care withworking with brokers all across
the country now?And what do you think that
(11:40):
everyone would benefit fromhearing in regard to that yeah i
mean going back to when we startedthis business hearing in regard to
that yeah i mean going back towhen we started this business as
edison financial you know wedidn't have a ton of technology
but we kind of had the samephilosophies of care and speed and
(12:01):
giving clients what they arelooking for but we're able to
deliver a high level of care withbasically just a phone like that's
really all we had yeah we had anexcel sheet and a phone and just
being able to communicate andprovide transparency to your
client that was an eye-openingthing like we were able to provide
a very high level of service withvery minimal technology and when
(12:22):
we launched rocket pro we were alittle bit further ahead than we
were when we started edisonfinancial but that same concept
applied where it's like, our BDMsare underwriters.
If they just pick up the phone andcall and provide transparency to
brokers throughout the process,that takes you a long way.
Brokers appreciate that.
And that's something that we
(12:44):
always want to be able to deliverand provide.
But it requires very little techand it requires very little
process.
It's just literally understanding
that brokers want transparency,their clients want transparency,
and always making sure that you'reproviding that through
communication.
Yeah.
So simple, right?Just an update.
Say, hey, I'm looking at this.
I'll shoot you a text or I'll give
you a call when I'm done.
And then, hey, got it done.
Looks like we're like we'reapproved here got a few conditions
out there for you if you take alook at your email just send them
(13:06):
over and as soon as you can getthose over to me then i'll review
those and we'll get this dealwrapped up like yeah sounds like
caveman stuff but yeah or if adeal is sitting overnight like a
text from your underwriter sayinghey you know i'm going to get to
it is sitting overnight like atext from your underwriter saying
hey you know i'm going to get toit first thing in the morning just
(13:30):
relieves so much pressure to thebroker.
Yeah.
Just by that one simple text.
text.
Yeah.
Couldn't agree more.
So I want to talk a little bit
about what you've learned.
So you've done a lot.
Like, you know, you worked on theU.S. side in the direct consumer
origination channel.
You helped us start our direct
(13:52):
consumer origination business herein Canada.
You were one of our firstoriginators.
You went on to lead a team oforiginators.
You then led multiple teams oforiginators.
And again, now you lead a businessthat goes direct to the broker
channel and tries to deliver agreat lending experience.
and specifically process itselfaround process building because
one thing that always impressed meabout you and still does is your
ability to really just simplifythings, execute, and try to build
scalable processes that don't justwork for you but can work for the
masses.
You talked about there was no
(14:13):
technology.
We didn't even have a CRM.
In fact, to start, we didn't evenhave a dialer to be on our cell
phones.
That's true.
Our original dialer was our cell.
And then our original CRM were
notebooks in front of us.
We call back the Smith family at 5
p.m.
And then you're running your
calendar off of it.
That was it, right?
Crazy to think that we mademortgages that way, but we
certainly did.
This was 100 years ago, by the
way.
No. Like five years ago.
at 5 was 100 years ago, by theway.
(14:36):
No. Pre-COVID, mortgages BC.
that way but we certainly did this
wasn't 100 years ago by the way nolike five years ago so pre-covid
bc yeah but then you go on youlike build all these processes so
that other agents can build theirbusinesses what do you think other
agents can learn from youregarding process building and how
to set up their businesses yeahi'll never forget bob walters he
(14:58):
was our ceo for rocket companieshe came in and did a talk yeah
i'll never forget bob walters hewas our ceo for rocket companies
he came in and did a talk to, Ithink we're a year into the
business, to Rocket Canada.
But he talked about Pokio, the
(15:18):
Japanese term that basically meanserror-free and creating processes
that are error-free.
And an example of this is like a
microwave.
If you open the microwave door,
the microwave won't run.
That kind of changed my whole
perspective in terms of creatingprocesses as we are scaling.
And as often as possible, youcan't always do it, but as often
as possible, look for thoseopportunities to create
error-proof processes in yourbusiness.
(15:38):
An example of this would be like aforced choice in Salesforce to
make sure that somebody's clickingthe right buttons and clicking the
right part of the form and justlooking for those opportunities.
But then on top of that, when Ilook at an agent's day or broker's
day, they have, you know, a $1task, a $10 task and a $100 task.
And a lot of times we kind of getcaught up doing these $1 and $10
tasks.
And it's just admin work.
And it's just these small Andthings.
it's really, looking for theopportunity to try to remove those
$1 and $10 And tasks.
(16:00):
it's just admin And work.
it's just these small And things.
it's really, looking for the
opportunity to try to remove thoseone and $10 tasks, you can spend
more time in those $100 tasks, andpay yourself and make sure that
you're always focusing on theright things.
And whether that's throughautomating those one and $10
tasks, or maybe specialization,creating a role for that one and
$1010 task so that you can focuson the $100 tasks.
So those are kind of the twothings that stand out to me in
(16:22):
terms of building our process.
And with RocketPro, we're still
new, we're still growing.
And these are things that I'm
constantly thinking about becausewe have a long way to go and we
have a lot of processes and thingsthat are going to change and
things that we need to build overthe next few years.
Yeah.
I'm thinking about assistance when
you talk about that.
(16:42):
You talk about, you know, one,
$10, $100 an hour task, which Ithink is such an awesome mental
model for an agent when you'redoing your job in the day to day.
And you just, you know, you canlook back on your week sometimes
and maybe you have created zerorevenue, but I feel like you spent
the entire week working.
And you're like, how did this
(17:02):
happen?What happened?
And why am I exhausted?I made no money.
I got nothing done that istangible in terms of creating You
business success for me.
But we have these agents out there
building businesses.
How do you think about assistance
or leveraging the help of a team,if you will, however you want to
describe them, to help you buildyour mortgage business and get you
out of some of those $10 an hourtasks that you could focus on $100
an hour tasks?I think it's a great idea for
(17:23):
independent agents, independentbrokers to look at their business
and try to identify, you know,what stage of the funnel can I
pass off to somebody else?And what stage of the funnel does
it make sense to pass off tosomebody else?
And also look at what you doreally well.
A lot of the times agents andbrokers will say they're really
good at the relationship building,the sales side of things.
So focus on that and when it comesto you know working on fulfillment
collecting documents pass that offlook for an opportunity to pass
(17:44):
that off to somebody and you knowobviously you got to get to a
certain level in your business tobe able to afford to do that and
for it to make sensemathematically but i think even on
a smaller scale there's so manytools out there nowadays to help
automate some of the smaller tasksand just always be looking for
those opportunities to relievethose smaller tasks and pass
things off.
(18:05):
Yeah, I think that's one of the
beautiful things about AInowadays.
For example, I mean, you could addup all the time spent.
If you talk to enough clients in aweek, you know, let's say you're
one of our agents and you're goingto talk to let's say 20 clients a
week well historically that was 20clients that you had to leave
(18:28):
notes on so that way when you callthem back you had to remember
everything that you said but nowwith ai transcription of phone
calls you really should not spenda lot of time writing notes right
like that should just happen foryou and over the course of the
week that might be three hoursfour hours of just note-taking
(18:48):
yeah otherwise it gets replaced byactual doing.
And I think you said somethingthere that stuck out to me, which
is like, when you're an agent, the$100 tasks, the $1,000 tasks that
I think about are like, they'reselling and marketing.
They're selling and marketing.
Every second that you're spending
processing a document, reviewingbank statements, reviewing pay
stubs, that stuff all needs to getdone.
But those are the things that youcan look at to do a cheaper way or
(19:11):
a more efficient way, if you will,so that you can focus on what
you're great at.
And by the way, if you're great at
reviewing pay stubs and bankstatements, you may want to think
about going into underwriting.
That's a good point.
You may want to think about goinginto underwriting.
That's a good point.
You may want to think about it.
And the great news is we alwaysneed great ones.
And, you know, I know that manyother lenders have them in high
(19:34):
regard and in high demand, butthose are two very different skill
sets.
And I think the best thing that an
agent can do, from my view, and itsounds like yours, is a selling
and marketing piece.
Communication, taking care of
clients, giving them speed tocertainty, giving them the
communication to show them thatyou care, many of those things
that you talked about as well.
So let me ask you, you are a
competitive individual.
You have played sports at the
highest level.
You have performed in the mortgage
(19:54):
world at the highest level, bothin the United States as a great
mortgage banker and United Statesas a great mortgage banker and in
Canada as a great mortgage agent,as we call them here, what drives
and motivates you to push yourselfto the point that you do to always
want to be the best and to reallyjust deliver?
Yeah.
I mean, being in the sales role,
like I said, coming from anathletic background, I think that
(20:16):
drive really to win pushes you along way when you're an individual
contributor.
But joining Edison or Rocket in
Canada, just being part of thisbusiness from day one, what drives
and motivates me today is gettingour business to what it's capable
of getting to.
If you think about we're almost
like 1985 when Rock Financialstarted in the U.S. it, They
(20:36):
started as a brokerage.
Forty years they're later, the
largest mortgage lender in theU.S. I look at where we're at
today in Canada.
We're a little bit less than five
years into this, but we've got aton of opportunity ahead of us and
that's what drives me and that'swhat motivates me is seeing the
potential of what we can achievein Canada yeah it's pretty
exciting it is yeah so how willyou know it is yeah so how will
you know when we've achieved ourmission I'm curious because you
know it's one thing to get upevery day and go at it and push
(20:58):
yourself hard.
And yeah, I mean, the look across
the border to see what Rocket hasdone in the United States is
certainly a massive driving force.
But I like to say there's no Oscar
moment in what we do, right?There's no like we made it moment.
Very few people get to go on stageand give their big speech about
(21:18):
how they made it in this world.
But as you look forward and
hopefully someday get to look backhow will you know that you've
achieved that goal and what do youthink that looks like to you yeah
that's a great point because thereis like to you yeah that's a great
point because there is never thatmoment where it's like okay we've
made it but i can say i've beenfortunate in my career to have
(21:42):
great leaders you know yourselfchad hash and you guys have seen
me grow in my life.
I've pretty much grown up in
Rocket.
Like you've seen me get engaged,
both get married, bought a home.
Getting pretty serious.
Yeah, it's getting pretty serious.
But seeing people that I lead, you
know, progress not only in theircareers, but in their life, and be
(22:10):
with Rocket, you know, for 10, 15,20 years, to me, you know, 10, 20
15, years, look back at thispodcast today and listen to this
conversation.
If I'm able to help people
progress in their career andprogress in their life, to me,
that's a good moment of like,okay, we've done something special
here.
Yeah, opportunity for others.
Pretty cool.
So to wrap that up up as a final
question, what do you want youroverall impact to be?
You spoke to some of that just nowregarding your impact on business,
(22:35):
if you will, but also in life, asyou think about impact and legacy,
and I know you're a young guy withmany, many years ahead of you.
How would you like to look backand reflect and say, I made a
great impact and it's a goodlegacy for me?
Yeah, from a business perspective,I mean, it's exactly what I just
talked about, helping people growin their career and helping people
grow in their life.
(22:55):
But I guess from a personal
standpoint, I heard this on apodcast a couple of years ago, and
it stuck with me for a long time.
And the speaker, he was talking
about generational wealth.
And he's like, a lot of people
don't have the opportunity toachieve generational wealth when
it comes to like a monetarystandpoint.
I don't think I'm going to be ableto achieve generational wealth.
Maybe who knows, maybe I'll winthe lottery.
But what he was talking about wasgenerational wealth in the
standpoint of like your values.
(23:16):
And the greatest thing that I can
give my future kids will be a goodlast name.
And what I mean by that is, youknow, how I treat people today,
how I show up to work, my workethic, my impact in the community.
Those are the things that I'mgoing to be able to instill in my
future kids and pass on.
And that's generational wealth,
right?It's providing a good last name
(23:38):
and a good core set of values.
And when I think about what my
lasting impact will be, that'skind of what I think about.
It's how much of an impact can Igive to everyone around me and
then, you know, pass that on to myfuture kids and provide those same
set of values.
Yeah, the ability to impact the
ability to impact futuregenerations.
(23:58):
I know that you and I have hadmany conversations on this topic.
And I think that probably say foryourself that your parents did
that for you.
And in a way, that is its own form
of generational wealth that wascreated.
And then now getting to buildsomething of your own and passing
(24:18):
that forward, it's an incrediblelegacy to think about.
It's something that I think aboutoften.
My kids would have it better thanI had it for Sometimes I think
about sure.
something that i think about often
my kids would have it better thani had it for sure yeah sometimes i
worry about that a little bitright like is that is that
spoiling them does that not buildthe character it takes to to win
out in this world but i thinkthere's something beautiful in
(24:39):
creating a world of opportunityfor others both in work and with
their families and as you know ito say, there is no such thing as
work-life balance.
There's only life balance.
And if you can truly do anything,how you do everything, that's an
ultimate test of you as a humanbeing.
So Brendan, thank you foreverything that you do for this
business.
Thank you for everything that you
do for me, both in this businessand as a friend.
(25:00):
Personally, I'd love to haveanother conversation with you on
the record someday soon.
Looking forward to it.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Have a great one.
You too.
Thank you for listening to theLending Thoughts podcast sponsored
(00:02):
by Rocket Pro.
Today I'm joined by my guest,
Brendan Woodfull.
Brendan is the Divisional Vice
President of Rocket Pro, adivision of Rocket Mortgage
Canada.
Brendan specifically leads our
business dealing with mortgageagents and brokers from across the
country.
He's learned so much through that
process.
I thought it would be awesome to
(00:22):
have a conversation with him.
We dive into the broker community.
We dive into talking about sportsand how it pertains to team
building.
And we finish out by having a
conversation about generationalwealth, both in business and in
life.
You're not going to want to miss
this conversation.
Have a listen today.
in the day.
Brandon, thanks for joining the
(00:51):
show today.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
It's good to have you.
Long time friend.
Yeah.
Going back to our days workingtogether in the United States.
Yeah.
We go way back.
Yes, we do.
Also a founding team member of
Edison Financial, now known asRocket.
So it's been the last four and ahalf, going on five years working
together here as well.
So it's going to be an exciting
conversation.
I know a bit about you, but not
all.
And I think it would be awesome if
(01:11):
you told our audience a little bitmore about yourself.
So can you tell us your life storyin 60 seconds or less, please?
60 seconds is going a is going tobe tough, but I'll try.
So I was born in Ottawa, came toWindsor, just outside of Windsor,
Lakeshore, Ontario, when I wasfour or five years old and grew up
in Windsor for the better part ofmy life.
When I was 15, I got signed toToronto FC Academy.
So I ended up moving to Toronto inhigh school, actually lived with a
(01:34):
Billet family, did that wholething, ended up getting a
scholarship to go to Oregon StateUniversity.
So literally went to the otherside of the country and then ended
up transferring to OaklandUniversity, which is in Michigan.
So came back this way, was therefor the last three years of my
university career, had some badinjuries my senior year of
university and kind of changed myperspective.
You know, I probably could havekept going and maybe played in
(01:57):
Australia or something.
Wouldn't have made it to the top
level, but probably could havekept going with soccer.
But those injuries kind of made mechange the direction of where I
was going.
And ultimately got referred into
Quicken Loans, Rocket Mortgagetoday as a mortgage associate.
So started working there.
I was there for about a year and a
half.
I am Canadian, so my visa expired.
I had to come back to Canada.
(02:19):
End ended up going to Toronto,
getting a job on Bay Street, Ithink, Montreal, working as an
advisor.
And then Chad Weinbaum, our old
CRO, my old VP at Quicken Loans,gave me a call and said, come to
Canada as Edison Financial.
And yeah, worked my way up from a
mortgage agent, director of sales,RVP, leading the brokerage, most
recently jumping over to RocketProand leading RocketPro.
So it's a lot there.
(02:40):
It was a lot.
I know you start.
Do I start in Ottawa?
Do I start in Oregon?Do I start in Michigan?
But I'm curious.
It's interesting that you get to
see this mortgage game in a coupleof different countries.
And I want to learn a little bitmore about that in terms of the
differences of what you've seen onboth sides of the border but
before we jump in i want to justunderstand like what role do you
(03:02):
think soccer played on yourability to jump into the corporate
world because i mean you've playedi mean that's some pretty high
level soccer there it's quitecompetitive right yeah you're
saying like fc and you knowplaying at a couple different
universities and playing in topclubs growing up but like what did
you learn from top level soccerthat you brought into the business
world that you still carry withyou now yeah it's a good question
(03:23):
i think right away just thediscipline like to get to that
level on any sport like you needto have discipline you need now
yeah it's a good question i thinkright away just the discipline
like to get to that level on anysport like you need to have
discipline you need to show upevery day your life is that and
you have to put the effort and thetime into your craft.
And I don't think that's anydifferent with anything.
But I'd say the biggest thing thatkind of helped me is the drive and
the motivation that you have towin in sports, jumping into a
(03:45):
sales role, being as a mortgageassociate or mortgage banker at
Quicken Loans in the U.S., youknow, it's the strong survive and
you got to put up the numbers tokind of stay around and kind of
hang in there.
So just having that drive and
motivation to win and hit thosenumbers and hit those targets more
than anything, I would say thatkind of came from my background of
sports.
(04:05):
Yeah.
How about teams?Something I think about about i
also grew up playing soccerrepetitively as well but being in
that environment was the firstopportunity that i got to feel
like i was a part of the team muchlike the team that i felt like i
was with when i was playing soccerwhen you play at a very high level
in business or in sport there aresome universal truths to teams.
And is there anything that yousort of took away, you think
(04:29):
carried with you from the teamdays into the business world?
Yeah.
I mean, one of the reasons I
transferred from Oregon State toOakland was because I went in with
a freshman class of 12 freshmen.
And by the time it came to summer
break, 10 of those 12 freshmen haddecided to transfer out and leave
because of the culture on theteam.
And I was left there with adecision, hey, do I want to
(04:51):
transfer?And everyone I came in here with
decided to leave.
So I ultimately made the same
decision and left and transferred.
But the team I went to at Oakland,
we're so tight knit and so close.
And whether we lost or we Oakland,
we were so tight-knit and soclose.
And whether we lost or we we werealways won, hanging together, out.
(05:11):
That camaraderie was there.
And it was a very successful team.
We went to the NCAA tournamenttwice.
And I look at our team here at andin comparison Rocket, to some of
the other teams that have been apart of Rocket Canada, we had the
benefit of being small originallyand getting really But then as we
scaled and got bigger, close.
I wouldn't say we're huge yet, but
we're, you know, a couple hundredpeople.
(05:31):
But it still feels like we havethat camaraderie and sense of
team.
I think sometimes we take it for
granted.
Like, that's not the norm always
in the workplace, sports teams,having that camaraderie that goes
a long way because ultimately itcomes from trust.
Like we trust each other, whichmeans we can push each other.
We can call each other out when noone of us is not doing something
(05:54):
the right way or I expect betterfrom you.
All that comes from the trust andthe teamwork.
Yeah, I completely I completelyagree.
So now you've taken that, youknow, originally growing out a
team in the direct consumerchannel, spun off and now lead the
rocket pro business dealing withbrokers.
And it's very different inindependent agent world, mostly,
right?It is.
You are mostly on an island.
Most independent agents work from
home.
The majority actually don't even
do it full time.
Right.
the majority actually don't evendo it full time, right?
And many don't get all the samelevels of training and morning
(06:17):
team meetings every day andmindset coaching and technical
coaching and all those otherthings.
What do you think you've learnedfrom that team aspect?
And what do you think you've beenable to observe now being into the
pro space where you think that ourindependent agents that you work
with can benefit from teamcamaraderie?
That's a good question.
I think, like you said, a lot of
(06:40):
independent agents, they're kindof out there on an island.
But what I've seen, and I've seenit with a couple of the brokerages
that we're currently working with,the ones that kind of establish
that group of brokers around them,it's almost like a small group to
lean on each other are the onesthat really progress and learn
from each other.
(07:00):
The ones that kind of stay on the
island and don't seek outcollaboration, whether that's with
brokers in your brokerage, ormaybe it's brokers from outside.
Maybe it's not even just mortgagebrokers.
Maybe it's realtors or financialadvisors.
But the ones that kind of havethat core group of people to lean
on, or financial but the ones thatkind of have that core group of
people to lean on, advisors,bounce ideas back and forth tend
to be the on, ones that areevolving and growing much faster.
(07:23):
And honestly, sometimes thosebrokers can lean on lenders as
well.
Your BDM is a great resource to
lean on and help grow yourbusiness and get ideas.
The ones that I've seen have donethat are the ones that are growing
the most.
Yeah, that's a good way to think
about it.
about it.
It's like the BDM is part of yourteam, right?
And your lenders are part of yourteam.
So you were originating mortgagesas a mortgage agent here when we
(07:44):
first started.
It gave you the benefit of seeing
how so many other lenders in ourspace actually do this job.
And now you run a lender that goesdirect to mortgage agents and asks
for their business under the ideathat, you know, you're maybe
faster or more transparent oreasier to get a hold of.
What are you hearing from agentsin that space that say, like, you
know, hey, here's what we needfrom our lenders.
Like, what do you think the agentneeds from the lenders?
(08:05):
And what did you observe in yourtime potentially that you think
you want to deliver to otheragents now?
And Yeah, there's a couple ofthings that stand out.
I'd say the first one, which haskind of been how we've gone to
market with RocketPro is speed.
But even more specifically, it's
speed to certainty.
Like, how quickly can I tell my
client that, yes, we've satisfiedall the conditions, everything's
(08:27):
looking good, we basically justneed to meet with the lawyer and
close this.
How quickly can I get to that
point?That's what brokers want.
And there's a lot of differentthings that you can do to provide
that level of speed, whether it'sprocess, whether it's technology,
but that is our thing at RocketProis speed and getting that
(08:47):
certainty as quickly as possible.
The second piece I would say is
care.
It sounds so simple, but returning
a phone call or answering everytime you get a call from a broker
as a BDM, underwriters respondingto emails, and just showing that
level of care that, hey, weunderstand there's a client at the
end of this.
And the end goal is to get that
client closed as quickly aspossible and as smoothly as
(09:10):
possible.
And just showing that level of
care that we're all in thistogether.
We're all trying to get there.
Speed and care to me are the two
things that I saw an opportunityas a broker that lenders could do
a better job of.
And that's really what we're
trying to focus on at RocketPro.
Absolutely.
So I So I think what a lot ofpeople think about lenders, they
(09:31):
don't really think abouttechnology.
And something that we talk about alot at Rocket is technology.
I'm curious, what are some thingsthat brokers ask for?
Like, how much do you ask themabout technology?
How much time do you spendlistening to their feedback
regarding technology?What do you think the current
state of technology is in thebroker-lender space?
(09:51):
And what do you want to achievethere?
Yeah.
I mean, I think there's a ton of
opportunity.
I'd say one of the most glaring
opportunities is probably in termsof document review.
When a deal gets submitted to us,how quickly can we review those
documents?And there's AI tools now that will
allow us to review those documentsquicker and essentially scan a pay
stub and say, hey, this is exactlywhat's on the application or no,
this doesn't match what's on theapplication, which frees up time
for the underwriter, which allowsus to get that deal out faster and
(10:15):
get it conditionally approvedquicker, get it to broker complete
quicker.
Speaking of brokers, that seems to
be not something necessarily thatthey're asking for, but it's what
they're looking for is, again, thespeed to certainty.
So that's a tool right away that Isee as like a big opportunity,
which we're looking into and we'retrying to implement into our
process.
But I think there's probably going
(10:37):
to be a lot of other AI tools thatare, you know, implemented into
our business to help free up timefor our underwriters, our mortgage
officers, our BDMs, and reallyjust allow us to get deals out
faster.
So said differently, not so much
front-end technology by request ofagents of their lenders, but
rather, I don't care what you haveto do.
(10:57):
I need speed of certainty.
That's what you've learned.
Yeah, exactly.
It's very interesting.
Much the same as I haveconversations both on this podcast
and with brokers directly.
It's not so much concern with
technology for the sake oftechnology, or rather technology
as an enabler.
Allow me to deliver the client
experience that I need to deliverfor my clients.
Yeah, exactly.
Clients don't care whatever your
tech stack is in the background.
(11:18):
They just want to know that it's
been super smooth to submit theirdocuments and they just heard back
as fast as possible.
I do want to go back to this point
around care though, because it'sfunny, you talked about care and
then everything you said behind itwas all in relation to
communication.
So what have you learned about
communication and care withworking with brokers all across
the country now?And what do you think that
(11:40):
everyone would benefit fromhearing in regard to that yeah i
mean going back to when we startedthis business hearing in regard to
that yeah i mean going back towhen we started this business as
edison financial you know wedidn't have a ton of technology
but we kind of had the samephilosophies of care and speed and
(12:01):
giving clients what they arelooking for but we're able to
deliver a high level of care withbasically just a phone like that's
really all we had yeah we had anexcel sheet and a phone and just
being able to communicate andprovide transparency to your
client that was an eye-openingthing like we were able to provide
a very high level of service withvery minimal technology and when
(12:22):
we launched rocket pro we were alittle bit further ahead than we
were when we started edisonfinancial but that same concept
applied where it's like, our BDMsare underwriters.
If they just pick up the phone andcall and provide transparency to
brokers throughout the process,that takes you a long way.
Brokers appreciate that.
And that's something that we
(12:44):
always want to be able to deliverand provide.
But it requires very little techand it requires very little
process.
It's just literally understanding
that brokers want transparency,their clients want transparency,
and always making sure that you'reproviding that through
communication.
Yeah.
So simple, right?Just an update.
Say, hey, I'm looking at this.
I'll shoot you a text or I'll give
you a call when I'm done.
And then, hey, got it done.
Looks like we're like we'reapproved here got a few conditions
out there for you if you take alook at your email just send them
(13:06):
over and as soon as you can getthose over to me then i'll review
those and we'll get this dealwrapped up like yeah sounds like
caveman stuff but yeah or if adeal is sitting overnight like a
text from your underwriter sayinghey you know i'm going to get to
it is sitting overnight like atext from your underwriter saying
hey you know i'm going to get toit first thing in the morning just
(13:30):
relieves so much pressure to thebroker.
Yeah.
Just by that one simple text.
text.
Yeah.
Couldn't agree more.
So I want to talk a little bit
about what you've learned.
So you've done a lot.
Like, you know, you worked on theU.S. side in the direct consumer
origination channel.
You helped us start our direct
(13:52):
consumer origination business herein Canada.
You were one of our firstoriginators.
You went on to lead a team oforiginators.
You then led multiple teams oforiginators.
And again, now you lead a businessthat goes direct to the broker
channel and tries to deliver agreat lending experience.
and specifically process itselfaround process building because
one thing that always impressed meabout you and still does is your
ability to really just simplifythings, execute, and try to build
scalable processes that don't justwork for you but can work for the
masses.
You talked about there was no
(14:13):
technology.
We didn't even have a CRM.
In fact, to start, we didn't evenhave a dialer to be on our cell
phones.
That's true.
Our original dialer was our cell.
And then our original CRM were
notebooks in front of us.
We call back the Smith family at 5
p.m.
And then you're running your
calendar off of it.
That was it, right?
Crazy to think that we mademortgages that way, but we
certainly did.
This was 100 years ago, by the
way.
No. Like five years ago.
at 5 was 100 years ago, by theway.
(14:36):
No. Pre-COVID, mortgages BC.
that way but we certainly did this
wasn't 100 years ago by the way nolike five years ago so pre-covid
bc yeah but then you go on youlike build all these processes so
that other agents can build theirbusinesses what do you think other
agents can learn from youregarding process building and how
to set up their businesses yeahi'll never forget bob walters he
(14:58):
was our ceo for rocket companieshe came in and did a talk yeah
i'll never forget bob walters hewas our ceo for rocket companies
he came in and did a talk to, Ithink we're a year into the
business, to Rocket Canada.
But he talked about Pokio, the
(15:18):
Japanese term that basically meanserror-free and creating processes
that are error-free.
And an example of this is like a
microwave.
If you open the microwave door,
the microwave won't run.
That kind of changed my whole
perspective in terms of creatingprocesses as we are scaling.
And as often as possible, youcan't always do it, but as often
as possible, look for thoseopportunities to create
error-proof processes in yourbusiness.
(15:38):
An example of this would be like aforced choice in Salesforce to
make sure that somebody's clickingthe right buttons and clicking the
right part of the form and justlooking for those opportunities.
But then on top of that, when Ilook at an agent's day or broker's
day, they have, you know, a $1task, a $10 task and a $100 task.
And a lot of times we kind of getcaught up doing these $1 and $10
tasks.
And it's just admin work.
And it's just these small Andthings.
it's really, looking for theopportunity to try to remove those
$1 and $10 And tasks.
(16:00):
it's just admin And work.
it's just these small And things.
it's really, looking for the
opportunity to try to remove thoseone and $10 tasks, you can spend
more time in those $100 tasks, andpay yourself and make sure that
you're always focusing on theright things.
And whether that's throughautomating those one and $10
tasks, or maybe specialization,creating a role for that one and
$1010 task so that you can focuson the $100 tasks.
So those are kind of the twothings that stand out to me in
(16:22):
terms of building our process.
And with RocketPro, we're still
new, we're still growing.
And these are things that I'm
constantly thinking about becausewe have a long way to go and we
have a lot of processes and thingsthat are going to change and
things that we need to build overthe next few years.
Yeah.
I'm thinking about assistance when
you talk about that.
(16:42):
You talk about, you know, one,
$10, $100 an hour task, which Ithink is such an awesome mental
model for an agent when you'redoing your job in the day to day.
And you just, you know, you canlook back on your week sometimes
and maybe you have created zerorevenue, but I feel like you spent
the entire week working.
And you're like, how did this
(17:02):
happen?What happened?
And why am I exhausted?I made no money.
I got nothing done that istangible in terms of creating You
business success for me.
But we have these agents out there
building businesses.
How do you think about assistance
or leveraging the help of a team,if you will, however you want to
describe them, to help you buildyour mortgage business and get you
out of some of those $10 an hourtasks that you could focus on $100
an hour tasks?I think it's a great idea for
(17:23):
independent agents, independentbrokers to look at their business
and try to identify, you know,what stage of the funnel can I
pass off to somebody else?And what stage of the funnel does
it make sense to pass off tosomebody else?
And also look at what you doreally well.
A lot of the times agents andbrokers will say they're really
good at the relationship building,the sales side of things.
So focus on that and when it comesto you know working on fulfillment
collecting documents pass that offlook for an opportunity to pass
(17:44):
that off to somebody and you knowobviously you got to get to a
certain level in your business tobe able to afford to do that and
for it to make sensemathematically but i think even on
a smaller scale there's so manytools out there nowadays to help
automate some of the smaller tasksand just always be looking for
those opportunities to relievethose smaller tasks and pass
things off.
(18:05):
Yeah, I think that's one of the
beautiful things about AInowadays.
For example, I mean, you could addup all the time spent.
If you talk to enough clients in aweek, you know, let's say you're
one of our agents and you're goingto talk to let's say 20 clients a
week well historically that was 20clients that you had to leave
(18:28):
notes on so that way when you callthem back you had to remember
everything that you said but nowwith ai transcription of phone
calls you really should not spenda lot of time writing notes right
like that should just happen foryou and over the course of the
week that might be three hoursfour hours of just note-taking
(18:48):
yeah otherwise it gets replaced byactual doing.
And I think you said somethingthere that stuck out to me, which
is like, when you're an agent, the$100 tasks, the $1,000 tasks that
I think about are like, they'reselling and marketing.
They're selling and marketing.
Every second that you're spending
processing a document, reviewingbank statements, reviewing pay
stubs, that stuff all needs to getdone.
But those are the things that youcan look at to do a cheaper way or
(19:11):
a more efficient way, if you will,so that you can focus on what
you're great at.
And by the way, if you're great at
reviewing pay stubs and bankstatements, you may want to think
about going into underwriting.
That's a good point.
You may want to think about goinginto underwriting.
That's a good point.
You may want to think about it.
And the great news is we alwaysneed great ones.
And, you know, I know that manyother lenders have them in high
(19:34):
regard and in high demand, butthose are two very different skill
sets.
And I think the best thing that an
agent can do, from my view, and itsounds like yours, is a selling
and marketing piece.
Communication, taking care of
clients, giving them speed tocertainty, giving them the
communication to show them thatyou care, many of those things
that you talked about as well.
So let me ask you, you are a
competitive individual.
You have played sports at the
highest level.
You have performed in the mortgage
(19:54):
world at the highest level, bothin the United States as a great
mortgage banker and United Statesas a great mortgage banker and in
Canada as a great mortgage agent,as we call them here, what drives
and motivates you to push yourselfto the point that you do to always
want to be the best and to reallyjust deliver?
Yeah.
I mean, being in the sales role,
like I said, coming from anathletic background, I think that
(20:16):
drive really to win pushes you along way when you're an individual
contributor.
But joining Edison or Rocket in
Canada, just being part of thisbusiness from day one, what drives
and motivates me today is gettingour business to what it's capable
of getting to.
If you think about we're almost
like 1985 when Rock Financialstarted in the U.S. it, They
(20:36):
started as a brokerage.
Forty years they're later, the
largest mortgage lender in theU.S. I look at where we're at
today in Canada.
We're a little bit less than five
years into this, but we've got aton of opportunity ahead of us and
that's what drives me and that'swhat motivates me is seeing the
potential of what we can achievein Canada yeah it's pretty
exciting it is yeah so how willyou know it is yeah so how will
you know when we've achieved ourmission I'm curious because you
know it's one thing to get upevery day and go at it and push
(20:58):
yourself hard.
And yeah, I mean, the look across
the border to see what Rocket hasdone in the United States is
certainly a massive driving force.
But I like to say there's no Oscar
moment in what we do, right?There's no like we made it moment.
Very few people get to go on stageand give their big speech about
(21:18):
how they made it in this world.
But as you look forward and
hopefully someday get to look backhow will you know that you've
achieved that goal and what do youthink that looks like to you yeah
that's a great point because thereis like to you yeah that's a great
point because there is never thatmoment where it's like okay we've
made it but i can say i've beenfortunate in my career to have
(21:42):
great leaders you know yourselfchad hash and you guys have seen
me grow in my life.
I've pretty much grown up in
Rocket.
Like you've seen me get engaged,
both get married, bought a home.
Getting pretty serious.
Yeah, it's getting pretty serious.
But seeing people that I lead, you
know, progress not only in theircareers, but in their life, and be
(22:10):
with Rocket, you know, for 10, 15,20 years, to me, you know, 10, 20
15, years, look back at thispodcast today and listen to this
conversation.
If I'm able to help people
progress in their career andprogress in their life, to me,
that's a good moment of like,okay, we've done something special
here.
Yeah, opportunity for others.
Pretty cool.
So to wrap that up up as a final
question, what do you want youroverall impact to be?
You spoke to some of that just nowregarding your impact on business,
(22:35):
if you will, but also in life, asyou think about impact and legacy,
and I know you're a young guy withmany, many years ahead of you.
How would you like to look backand reflect and say, I made a
great impact and it's a goodlegacy for me?
Yeah, from a business perspective,I mean, it's exactly what I just
talked about, helping people growin their career and helping people
grow in their life.
(22:55):
But I guess from a personal
standpoint, I heard this on apodcast a couple of years ago, and
it stuck with me for a long time.
And the speaker, he was talking
about generational wealth.
And he's like, a lot of people
don't have the opportunity toachieve generational wealth when
it comes to like a monetarystandpoint.
I don't think I'm going to be ableto achieve generational wealth.
Maybe who knows, maybe I'll winthe lottery.
But what he was talking about wasgenerational wealth in the
standpoint of like your values.
(23:16):
And the greatest thing that I can
give my future kids will be a goodlast name.
And what I mean by that is, youknow, how I treat people today,
how I show up to work, my workethic, my impact in the community.
Those are the things that I'mgoing to be able to instill in my
future kids and pass on.
And that's generational wealth,
right?It's providing a good last name
(23:38):
and a good core set of values.
And when I think about what my
lasting impact will be, that'skind of what I think about.
It's how much of an impact can Igive to everyone around me and
then, you know, pass that on to myfuture kids and provide those same
set of values.
Yeah, the ability to impact the
ability to impact futuregenerations.
(23:58):
I know that you and I have hadmany conversations on this topic.
And I think that probably say foryourself that your parents did
that for you.
And in a way, that is its own form
of generational wealth that wascreated.
And then now getting to buildsomething of your own and passing
(24:18):
that forward, it's an incrediblelegacy to think about.
It's something that I think aboutoften.
My kids would have it better thanI had it for Sometimes I think
about sure.
something that i think about often
my kids would have it better thani had it for sure yeah sometimes i
worry about that a little bitright like is that is that
spoiling them does that not buildthe character it takes to to win
out in this world but i thinkthere's something beautiful in
(24:39):
creating a world of opportunityfor others both in work and with
their families and as you know ito say, there is no such thing as
work-life balance.
There's only life balance.
And if you can truly do anything,how you do everything, that's an
ultimate test of you as a humanbeing.
So Brendan, thank you foreverything that you do for this
business.
Thank you for everything that you
do for me, both in this businessand as a friend.
(25:00):
Personally, I'd love to haveanother conversation with you on
the record someday soon.
Looking forward to it.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Have a great one.
You too.
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