October 14, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, we are sharing a conversation from our webinar series. Lara Powers, a Behavioural Support Practitioner, discusses the challenges and strategies for supporting neurodivergent children in developing social skills. From the complexities of birthday parties to classroom dynamics, Lara uncovers the hidden barriers that interfere with social interaction.
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(00:03):
Hi, I'm Sarah and welcome to Link up and Learnwith Live Big.
In this episode, we're sharing a conversationfrom our webinar series on a topic that
matters to families,
educators and support professionals.
Helping neurodivergent children buildmeaningful social skills.
Our guest, Lara Powers,
(00:24):
a passionate, positive, behavioural supportpractitioner and social worker, shares
practical strategies and a powerful casestudy.
From birthday parties to classroom dynamics,Lara unpacks the hidden barriers kids face and
offers tools to help them thrive.
If you've ever supported a child with autismor adhd,
(00:46):
this episode is for you.
Let's dive in.
What are the social skills that need to bedeveloped to support neurodivergent children?
To make friends?
And what can be provided to supportneurodivergent children's social skill
development?
So, I suppose what are social skills?So social skills essentially is the ability to
(01:09):
utilize and communicate and interact withother people.
So this can be both verbal, non verbal and inmany ways, such as body language, facial
expressions, gestures and keyword signs.
And why are they important?They enable us to adapt our behavior to suit
the social context we are.
For example,
(01:30):
the way a child would greet their friend wouldbe very different to the way they greet their
principal.
So for children, these situations can includeasking a question in the classroom.
And for me, in my experience, this is not justabout putting their hand up,
but the unspoken communication from this achild may sit there and think, what does this
(01:54):
look like?If I put my hand up,
will people think I'm silly?Will people think I don't know?
So there's a lot of social convention evenaround asking a question in the classroom.
Another situation could be attending a socialevent such as a birthday party.
And I've used this example here because thisis something that I found a lot of children
(02:15):
have struggled with socially.
Because if you think about it, how many socialconventions are there at a birthday party,
then buying a present, then wrapping thepresent, writing on the card, am I saying the
right thing on the card?
Then giving the card over.
And sometimes I've even found if it's a really
cool present,
children don't usually want to give that overand I've had that many times.
(02:39):
Then it's the food,
will I like the food, how much can I eat?
Then the games, the music, I could go on andon.
Most times I've seen.
Unfortunately,
children don't often go to birthday parties atall because of the thought of all these social
conventions is just too much for them.
Another situation could be eating dinner at arestaurant.
(03:01):
And I think even just eating out in generalcan be a massive barrier,
particularly for neurodivergent children.
An example of this,
a participant I have worked with reallystruggled going to sushi train, right down to
anxiety about taking sushi off the conveyorbelt.
And all this anxiety around, what if I don'tlike it, Lara?
Am I forced to eat it?It's similar to that of attending a birthday
(03:25):
party.
There's so many social conventions that people
don't consider that are barriers until youreally break it down.
Another situation is engaging in group andpeer activities or sports.
And this is a huge one, I think, because likethat of a birthday party or eating dinner at a
restaurant, it's not just all the conventionsthat make up the interaction.
It's the social aspect of peers and just beingaccepted.
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And for neurodiverse children, especiallythose who are very aware that there's a point
of difference between them and their peers, itcan be a really anxious thing for them to do.
And one I've definitely seen in my practice isunstructured times such as breaks or recess.
And I've witnessed this firsthand when workingin the school system, particularly when
(04:09):
there's those elective or free period times,
because neurodivergent children really thriveon that consistent, predictable and reliable
routine and that structure.
And during these times, I feel like there's
always an element of chaos.
And I definitely felt that way being a staff
member in that situation, if you will.
And I'm not saying that it's because theyweren't organized well.
(04:30):
It's just there's so many other variables thatkids, particularly neurodivergent kids, are
then having to accommodate for and consider.
But then in saying that,
why are social skills important?
So ability to adapt our behavior to suit asocial situation is so essential.
And these points I'm going to talk aboutintermittently, like they mingle with each
(04:52):
other.
So I'll start with accessing and participating
in the community.
Community access and participation isessential to ensure that children grow up to
be a contributing member of our society.
It's foundational.
And in supporting and further building upon
those points we're going to highlight here.
And I don't mean community access as just
going out and doing something like going to atheme park.
(05:14):
I'm talking about simple things like going tosee family in an environment that's not their
family home,
going grocery shopping on the weekend, goingto school.
These are all places where children buildtheir social skills just by walking out their
front door.
If this doesn't happen, it's very difficult to
build upon those social skills,
you know.
And put simply, if children don't access and
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participate in the community, how can theyestablish these skills to build and maintain
relationships?
And when you build and maintain arelationship, it makes you feel good and this
increases your self confidence and self worth.
Additionally, if children don't engage intheir community and build these relationships,
they are missing the chance to collaboratewith others and build that sense of teamwork
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and build effective communication skills.
So you can see I've already addressed five ofour points and how they intermingle with each
other.
So what I mean when I say also effectivecommunication is ensuring that children are
assertive in their communication so they'reconfident they're able to effectively
communicate their desires, needs, theirpreferences and wants without being passive or
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submissive, but aggressive.
And this then supports effective conflictmanagement and resolution with peers and also
helps to maintain their emotional well being.
I think one of the biggest things of whysocial skills are important is gaining and
maintaining employment.
Linking to our previous points here, if
children don't access and participate in thecommunity and practice the skills I've just
(06:41):
mentioned, then it's more difficult for themto gain and maintain employment.
And we've touched briefly on learning andparticipation in the education environment and
definitely something I've seen in myexperience,
you know, it's more than putting their hand upin the classroom.
It's about their confidence in their abilitiesbut but also their inabilities and also
recognizing that the learning environment is aplace of growth.
(07:04):
And I think the most important one for me,especially with a social work background,
is self advocacy.
I think it's one of the most important things
about social skills, especially in the NDISspace because it enables children to assert
themselves to ensure they feel heard,supported and understood.
Really. Summary of why I believe focus skillsare important especially.
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So suppose we need to then look at what arethe barriers faced by our neurodivergent kids.
So children learn through play and not justindependent play, but with others.
And this enables them to establish thosesocial skills.
And for neurodivergent kids this can be reallychallenging to play with a group or with each
other.
We have a look at some of these barriers inmore detail.
(07:51):
One of them is their sense of awareness ofenvironment.
So recognizing when they are welcome in agroup and maybe missing those non verbal or
verbal cues when the group may be welcoming ornot.
So that body language, those facialexpressions, those gestures.
So another barrier I've found is difficultiesin articulating and communicating and
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regulating their Emotions.
So really it means how they feel, getting
their point across,
or expressing feelings like anger orfrustration and want is considered, I suppose,
a socially appropriate manner in a socialcontext.
This can cause a lot of misinterpretation andmisunderstanding among peers.
So you know, for example,
if a child becomes quite heightened and criesfor someone who doesn't understand them or how
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they process things, they might notunderstand, that's just their way of coping,
where they may see them as overly emotional oroverly sensitive.
There's also a point of difference, I think incommunication and particularly in my
experience,
there can be a different way of communicating,such as speaking in third person,
being non verbal, or even using things like acommunication device, keyword, sign or
(09:02):
gestures.
And I think it's really important that otherchildren as well as their supports,
both in home, at school and in the community,are aware of their communication style and
know how to understand their communication.
So another barrier, and this is something I amquite passionate about and have had a lot of
work with, is sensory sensitivities.
(09:24):
So neurodivergent children can present with
sensory sensitivities which can hinder theirability to cope in a social situation.
So when I mean sensory,
and this is from their sensory input.
So when I talk about sensory sensitivities,
it's any thing in the environment that isgetting inputted.
So a lot of the times it's sound, taste,touch, smell, that's all sensory input.
(09:47):
And how I really like to train this.
And I've done this with support staff, but
I've done this with school staff as well, eventeachers, teachers, aides and school
management.
If you think of it like this,
if you're a neurotypical person,
you may start your day here, you wake up andthen all the sensory input comes at you and
you're threshold goes up slowly,
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you peak,
you dip, may have your 3:30 coffee peak anddip again, go to bed and we reset.
For a neurodivergent child,
they're already up here on the sensoryheightened scale.
So some children are already waking up withheightened sensitivity to sensory input.
So one little thing that may not be a big dealto someone else is a massive deal for them.
(10:33):
So that really, really impacts their barriersand is a barrier for social skills.
So another barrier I found is emotionalawareness.
So a child's need to identify their ownfeelings, but able to recognize the feelings
in others.
Another barrier is difficulty in turn taking,so both physically in games or in conversation
(10:55):
with others.
So some children feel a lot of discomfort in
making eye contact and Others may strugglewith back and forth conversation as it
requires a lot of extra patience andstructure.
And I find thinking fondly of the children Isupported,
they, they find it very difficult to sit inthe silence.
So they're talking very fast and running intoeach other's words because we can't sit with
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the natural pauses in a conversation.
Another barrier is understanding theperspective of others.
So theory of mind,
which I found is something that neurodivergentreally struggle with.
It's their ability to understand that othershave their own thoughts and feelings and
beliefs which can then differ from their ownand then them then seeing how it can influence
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their peer relationships.
We've already touched on this.
But unstructured times, such as recess,
because I find neurodivergent children mayavoid these times and retreat to areas where
there's less opportunity for socialinteraction.
If they find it difficult,
they need a sense of consistency,predictability and reliability to feel safe
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and secure.
And during these unstructured times, withoutthat structure, they don't feel that safety or
that security.
So find your child or participant couldbenefit from some further support.
So if you notice that their play may seemdifferent to other children who are the same
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age.
So if.
Perfect example and a point of nostalgia forme.
If you think of those Thomas the Tank Enginewooden train toys,
I know my kids are really into them at themoment, which is fantastic.
But it's always, it's almost like there's aninherent unspoken way of how you must play
with this toy.
So obviously we would see, oh, you move thetrain along the track.
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But if the, the child is lining up the trainor spinning the wheels of the train, sort of
pushing the trains along the track, that maybe a sign they need some support.
They appear to talk at a person in aconversation,
rather have a conversation with people.
So perfect example is I was working with achild who really liked dinosaurs and I'd say,
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how are you today?And they would say back to me, I'm good, Lara.
I watched Jurassic park last night and I sawBlue and Blue was running around all this
conversation about dinosaurs completely offtopic to what had been said.
So that's maybe an indication that your childmay need some support.
They display what could be considered unsocialbehaviours, so emotional outbursts or
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difficulty regulating their emotions duringplay.
They may have little to no interest in playingwith other children and they may struggle or
to share or take turns during play, or theymay struggle to initiate or join a group with
activities, games or supports.
Those are just some signs that could indicateyour child may need some further support.
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I suppose this is the crux of why you're allhere is how we teach these skills.
How can someone like PBS support aneurodivergent child in teaching these skills?
And I suppose all allied health disciplines,they all have so much incredible value in
teaching social skills, speech pathology,occupational therapy,
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social work, play therapy,
they all do amazing things to teach socialskills in their own way.
I mean, I'm just talking from the perspectiveof PBS because that is what I.
So some examples I can give you is what we'vedone is practicing social scenarios.
So ideally we'd like to practice the socialscenario in the real world context or
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environment such as school or during a groupprogram.
And you know, for whatever reason,logistically, sometimes that just can't
happen.
And that's okay.
If we can't, we try and simulate this to somedegree how I've done it in the past.
I used to teach social emotional learning inschools.
And obviously, I mean, you can't get morecontext of being in a school.
But when I'm trying to teach a concept, I'dutilize things like media,
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like for example, those Disney Pixar Sparkshorts, They're great little films.
They always have a really good moral backingbehind them and teach a lesson.
But I think also it's something that kids canrelate to.
And how I've taken that into PBS practice whenI'm trying to build social skills is I'll pick
a movie clip or a music video.
Done a lot of Taylor Swift when she was inAustralia, my goodness.
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But hey, you know,
YouTube clips related to children's interests.
Because if you pick something that your child
or your participant is emotionally investedin,
they're more likely to pick up on what you'retrying to teach them because they see a point
of similarity and relationship.
And in doing this, we support children tounderstand concepts in,
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in the media.
So I remember teaching social emotional
learning.
We would look at something and we'd go, okay,
little Susie's upset.
Okay,
how can you tell little Susie's upset?What's happened, what's going on around her?
Okay,
she's happy.
How do you know she's happy?
So really posing those questions and reallybreaking down what they're seeing on the video
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in a real world context to understand whatthese feelings and emotions look like in a
real world context.
Obviously in a school we can also role playthe approach.
And you can do it not in the environmenteither.
I mean in a one on one scenario, I'd like toStart role playing one on one.
I would never want to put a child straightinto a situation where you go and practice the
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social skills.
In the real world context, you want to buildup their confidence and skills first.
But we'd role play a social situation and inthe environment we'd observe them, do it, do
an age appropriate reflection, and thenproblem solve any issues.
So what worked well, what didn't work well andwhat can we do differently next time?
It's very positive and affirming language aswell.
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I really like to work from a growth mindsetlike this is where I am, but I can always do
better.
It's, it's really, really empowering.
This also supports them to be able to initiateconversations in that real world context.
We also play a lot of games in therapy andthese allow the practice of those social
conventions.
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And we purposely source games that are paying
attention and following the rules.
We also at these times work on being flexibleand practice losing.
Now I know especially in behavior support foryounger children,
losing can be a massive trigger for emotionaldysregulation.
So I would generally always start if,especially if it's a massive trigger, we'd
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start with a collaborative game with a sharedcommon goal, such as doing a puzzle.
Because if you have the shared goal,
it's not so much a winning or losing thing.
It's like, how can we work together to achieve
this common goal?But we would add the conventions of turn
taking to put the pieces of the puzzletogether.
So what we can also do in the space is alsoprepare for social situations.
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So we can also social scenario gains where wewould pose the situation and a child would say
what they would do in that situation.
So we could say something like,
for an example, if a child, I have a child whoreally likes soccer,
maybe wants to start soccer,
has had a couple of situations at soccer.
I'd go, okay, so little Susie, she's going
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here, she's going to go to the soccer team andshe's waiting to be picked and she gets picked
last.
What would you do in that situation?And we let it be really organic.
And instead of,
you know, you wouldn't say to some, to achild, oh no, that's not the right thing to
do.
We want to build their skills, build the
capacity to understand well, what,
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what would work, what wouldn't work and why.
Because if they know the why, they're morelikely to implement the how.
And it helps to understand what socialconventions may or may not be appropriate.
We then expand on that using the what, how,why, when and who questions to initiate and
maintain a conversation practice.
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So I could say something like I went to the
beach.
Okay, I've given you that information.
What can we do to expand to keep theconversation going?
So we give the prompts.
We could ask which beach?
Who did you go with?Why did you go there?
What did you do there?Because this supports children to show their
interest in the topic but also assists inpractising that reciprocal conversation and
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turn taking also assists the child inidentifying who the main speaker is.
We need to pay attention to them, but also weneed not to try and change the topic until
they've completed their story.
We also work with Kouran to discuss levels offriendship as well as identifying a
relationship with someone.
So a lot of things I've looked at with
children,
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my experience is sort of like good friend, badfriend, what does a good friend look like to
you?And I tell you,
the answers I get for each child I've workedwith are very, very different of what their
understanding of a good friend or to a badfriend is.
So we do that and we work.
With them to identify and understand how timeis important to develop relationships with
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people and to understand the more time thatthey interact with the person, they develop
that stronger relationship.
Because a lot of times I've worked withneurodivergent kids that after one interaction
they get very disheartened that they're notgetting reciprocal feelings.
So that really helps to understand thatrelationships take time.
It takes time to build that rapport withpeople and we get them, we get them to help to
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understand.
Once you build that friendship, they start to
feel safe and they start to share more abouttheir life and find a common ground.
Another thing we like to do in this space isby teaching emotional and self regulation
techniques such as breathing exercises,
five count breathing and deep belly breathsare just some examples.
I really like to make these person centered tothe child.
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We kind of bring a whole plethora of differentemotional regulation techniques and then we
kind of go based on what suits them.
And some things, some kids are happy to do andsome kids, some kids aren't.
It's just, that's just the way it is.
You know that they're happy with some and
they're not with others and it helps to managetheir frustration, calm down routines.
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Sometimes it's movement based regulation.
I once had a child working within a school
when they were getting frustrated or upset,they used to signal to me, lara, I need to go
for a run.
Yep, let's go for a run.
And they do two laps of the oval better than
me.
But hey, you know, that's what worked for them
also really empowering them to use that selfadvocacy.
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I remember because my experience was working alot with year sevens and year eight.
So that younger end of the high school wereally were trying to empower and teach them
that if we're wanting to leave the classroom,it's not always that you're in trouble.
And I found that they got that a lot inprimary school was if I have to leave the
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classroom, I'm automatically in trouble.
And it took quite a long time to get them tounderstand, no, if I need to leave the
classroom to regulate myself because I need abreak or I feel frustrated, then that's okay.
So that's something,
I suppose in the PBS space has been one of thethings I've done in my practice to teach those
skills.
(22:21):
So we're going to do a little case study.
There's going to be another poll and hopefullywe can get to work so I can see everyone's
amazing answers.
So,
going to talk about.
I'll just let you know.
Unfortunately the poll doesn't seem to beworking, but we're having some really
fantastic engagement with the chat.
Oh, that's awesome.
(22:43):
Yeah. What we can ask everyone to do is ifthey can just pop their answers directly into
the chat, that would be wonderful.
That'd be wonderful.
And then, Mel, can you please read out some of
the answers if that would be fantastic for me?
Yes, I have some of the goals from earlier aswell.
Would you like me to read out some of them?
Yes, we'll take a look.
Brief pause.
I'd love to hear some of the goals.
(23:04):
I'm really eager.
There's a couple of questions scatteredthrough there that are administrative ones, so
I'll answer those as I go.
So one looks at certificate of attendance, if
you need one, let us know and we can send youout.
One definitely.
Question around whether we service in NewSouth Wales and I'm sorry, I should have
mentioned, we are Queensland, New South Wales,Victoria and Wa.
(23:26):
Regarding goals, we have a lot of reallywonderful goals in here.
A lot of goals around social connection.
Simple goals such as being able to put theirbag on a hook and the drink bottle and
lunchbox in the trolley.
Goals around being independent,
being able to get social emotional support andbuilding real deep connections socially
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beautiful.
Being able to engage and interact with periodsso that the children aren't feeling excluded
or different.
Being able to participate in a small groupgame with two or three peers, with some
support.
Lovely Being able to move independently andjoin in activities with others.
So lots of really lovely social goals andemployment as a goal as well.
(24:17):
Excellent.
That's so lovely to hear.
Friendships, building positive peerrelationships.
Increasing access access to community basedactivities to maintain and develop healthy
friendships.
Yeah. Lot around making friendships and beingconfident in social activities.
Being able to do non preferred tasks to be arock star.
(24:42):
That's fantastic.
Which is wonderful.
Yeah.
And just a couple of questions around slidesand recording.
The recording will be sent out after thewebinar to everyone and the slides will be
available to download from the webinar lobbyafter the event as well.
(25:05):
Excellent.
So I will hand back to you Lara.
So once you've prompted everyone for the next
question, I'll give them 30 seconds or so.
Yeah.
And then I'll start reading out some of theanswers for you.
Awesome.
Just going to do a little case study now aboutLucas.
So Lucas is an 8 year old boy with autismspectrum disorder.
(25:29):
His psychologist has assessed that hemaintains a pathological demand avoidance
profile associated with his diagnosis.
He attends a mainstream primary school and
excels academically.
However struggles with social interactions
particularly particularly engaging in thosereciprocal conversations and understanding
social cues.
His difficulties have led to occasionalemotional outbursts when becoming frustrated
(25:54):
which has led to ongoing isolation andmisunderstanding with peers.
So what I'd really like you to think about arewhat are some of the challenges from that
information?
Think about what challenges could he beexperiencing?
What could his behaviour look like socially?What could some of the things barriers be?
What sort of things could we be seeing?
(26:16):
So let's actually see this in action forLucas.
So he received behaviour support funding inhis NDIS plan period.
PBS practitioner was allocated and they workedtogether developed a PBS plan and it included
the following.
We had the emotional regulation tools, we hadintroduced Lucas to sensory breaks, some
(26:36):
coping strategies and we trialed many.
And Lucas found that deep breathing,
stretching or a quiet space to access duringthose times of emotional distress was really
helpful for him to regulate his emotions.
Social stories.
I was so happy when someone said social
stories.
We introduce personal personalized social
stories that outline appropriate ways for himto engage in a conversation and recognize
(27:00):
these emotions in others.
He has been able to apply these and has beenable to slowly start developing some initial
social interactions with peers.
We did some structured social skills trainingso we did some guided practice sessions like I
was talking about before.
In turn taking through playing games ofLucas's interests, initiating conversations
and responding to peers appropriately throughrole play which have resulted in Lucas
(27:25):
engaging in more group activities at his ownpace.
At school,
we gave some teachers support and training.
So we provided educators the training in the
behavior support techniques outlined in hisplan.
We talked about the skills and the strategiesthat we can put in place.
But we also talked about what Lucas hasidentified as emotional regulation strategies
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for himself.
And he was also paired with a peer buddy tomodel appropriate social behavior.
We also put in place visual cues and prompts,such as laminated cars with zones of
regulation faces and corresponding colors andconversation starters to assist him with
understanding feelings and socialexpectations.
(28:08):
The teacher put in place a daily schedule inthe classroom.
And along with these social cue cards andemotional identification charts, it's helped
him to anticipate these transitions andrecognize emotions in himself and other
people,
which has supported him to be able tocommunicate without as many emotional
outbursts when he's escalated, heightened andtriggered the outcome.
(28:29):
For Lucas, in applying all these supports,he's demonstrated gradual improvements in his
ability to navigate these social settings.
His frustration levels have decreased,
his behaviors have decreased, and he's learnedto recognize and manage his emotions through
structured strategies that suit him.
His peer interactions became more positivewith fewer behavioral outbursts.
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And increased engagement in these groupactivities and continued engagement with
behaviour support will help him to build thatresilience and adaptability in more complex
social scenarios.
There are some practical strategies that youcan put in place now to support your child and
participant.
So I've done a few here.
(29:14):
So one is to create those sensory friendlyspaces.
So adapting spaces at home or even in theeducation environment to meet their sensory
needs.
Quiet corners with soft lighting,
even if you've seen it, Kmart and Target,there's little pop up tents.
I've had work with a lot of parents to putthem in place and even schools.
(29:35):
One mum, she was so extra with it, I loved it.
She put little battery powered fairy lights up
the top because that's what their childneeded.
It was fantastic.
You can really personalize it to your child's
needs, put their own little toys in it.
I've also seen trampolines and swings becauseit really helps children to meet those sensory
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needs to help calm them down.
So another one is support social skilldevelopment.
So encouraging the engagement in peer andgroup activities with peers that align with
the child's interests and likes supports themto establish those social skills in a natural
way.
And so like I was saying before,
if they're going to do things that engage inthese things, yes, there's going to be some
(30:22):
anxiety around that.
But if it's around their likes and interests,
there's more of A hopefully a more natural buyin.
And then those social skills are taught in amore organic way because they're doing
something that's circulated around whatthey're like engaging with other allied health
professionals such as an occupational, aspeech therapist or a play therapist as well
(30:43):
as PBS can work on building these socialskills, like I've said here,
in group or familiar settings and it supportsthese neurodivergent kids in building these
friendships.
Another one is establishing routines.
So one that I've really carried through from
working in schools and into PBS is kids needespecially neurodivergent kids need
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consistency, predictability and reliabilityand creating these routines provides structure
and stability which reduces anxiety.
Setting these regular meal times and evensleep routines support to create habits so
that when changes do occur it can help them toadjust more smoothly.
Another thing is to promote opencommunication,
(31:26):
being at their level, using their language butadding those visual aids to communicate with
neurodivergent kids.
Name feelings, Name the feeling.
Let the children know that these are okay.
However, we just need to manage them inappropriate ways and with patience and
encouragement it can really help children toexpress themselves more comfortably.
(31:47):
Linking back to what I said before,encouraging interests and talents and
involving children in things that they likeprovides that natural setting for building
confidence and social skills and it helps themto feel more recognised and valued.
Something else I really encourage because inthe PBS space we're not just working with the
child, we're working with the whole supportnetwork and that includes families and a lot
(32:12):
of the participants I work with, I do a lot ofparent support and being that support person
and being part of their network.
It definitely takes a village to raisechildren.
So local online support groups offer a chancefor parents to connect, share experiences and
learn from situations.
And it will vary depending on where you're
located.
(32:32):
But also prioritising self care, making surethat you take care of yourself because it
makes it easier to take care of a child whenyou take time for yourself.
And this is where PBS can support, I supposein that space to advocate to utilise those
NDIS resources such as respite care or supportworkers to manage that stress and maintain
(32:54):
balance.
Thank you, Lara.
That's okay.
There's a question around occupational therapyand how that can work within with behaviour
support.
I can talk a little bit to that to begin with.
So a lot of the disciplines have a bit of
(33:14):
overlap and actually work really, really welltogether.
So one of the things.
So occupational therapists will teach a lot ofemotional regulation skills skills as well.
They'll Teach a lot of grounding skills.
So square breathing, diaphragm breathing,
tell me five things you can hear, five thingsyou can feel, five things you can smell.
(33:36):
So those sorts of strategies that are reallyhelpful and they can work hand in hand with
behaviour support,
but they'll also do sensory profiles as well.
So some of the challenges that neurodivergent
kids might be experiencing at school is thatperhaps they're very sensory seeking, so they
(33:57):
really want lots of deep pressure, they wantto be bouncing and jumping and moving, and
it's really challenging to be sitting still inthe classroom for a long time.
So an occupational therapist can actually findout what someone's sensory profile is and
build a sensory diet.
So find ways that we can build in some of thesensory input that they need when they're in
(34:19):
class.
Or it might even be that they have a very lowsensory profile for auditory input, so they
don't like a lot of sound.
And school classrooms are very busy and very
noisy, so it might be getting them someheadphones to screen out some of the noise, et
cetera.
So all of that really useful information willreally support the sort of strategies that a
(34:42):
behaviour support practitioner will implement.
And we find that they work really, really
nicely together, hand in hand.
There's a question around whether this is apurely behavioural approach, and I think this
sort of dovetails nicely into a questionaround behaviour and whether we see behaviour
as just part of a person and part of theirpersonality,
(35:06):
or are we looking at behaviour as a form ofcommunication?
Do you have some comments around that,
Lara?
I do definitely do something I'm verypassionate about in the PBS space and when I'm
doing training, behaviour is a form ofcommunication.
That's what I truly believe.
It's really looking at the underlying thingsof.
From that behaviour, you can see positive ornegative.
(35:30):
What are you trying to communicate from that?
So I definitely think if looking at strippingit back, looking at the behavior that you see
as a form of communication, and that'sdefinitely what I teach and train in my
practice,
what I do when I'm supervising and teamleading staff.
So, yeah, definitely behaviour is a form ofcommunication.
(35:52):
It's just looking at the why behind thecommunication.
Yeah, and seeing behaviour as a way of havingneeds met.
So we're not looking at behaviour, but reallywhat is it trying to communicate?
So we need to look at the environment,
make sure that's meeting the child's needs,look at the way the child's being supported,
looking at those around the child,
(36:12):
etc. As well.
So we're almost out of time, but just toquickly explain for people.
So behaviour support practitioners will oftenhave a different allied health background, so
they may have come from social work or fromoccupational therapy background or psychology
or speech pathology.
So they can have one of those backgrounds aswell.
(36:33):
And it sort of obviously their approach willdiffer and slightly different skill set based
on all of that.
So that's all that we have time for today.
Thank you so much everyone for coming along.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you to Melanie and Lara for sharingtheir expertise.
(36:54):
If you'd like to connect with us and learnmore about live big, visit livebig.com don't
forget to subscribe for more conversationslike this.
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you nexttime.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of thisnation whose country we work and live in.
We recognise Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslanders as traditional custodians and their
(37:17):
ongoing connections to land and sea.
We pay our respects to elders past, presentand emerging as law keepers of the world's
oldest living culture.
We celebrate the stories,
culture and traditions of Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islanders so we can, in the true
spirit of reconciliation,
(37:38):
continue the journey together.
Hi, I'm Sarah and welcome to Link up and Learnwith Live Big.
In this episode, we're sharing a conversationfrom our webinar series on a topic that
matters to families,
educators and support professionals.
Helping neurodivergent children buildmeaningful social skills.
Our guest, Lara Powers,
(00:24):
a passionate, positive, behavioural supportpractitioner and social worker, shares
practical strategies and a powerful casestudy.
From birthday parties to classroom dynamics,Lara unpacks the hidden barriers kids face and
offers tools to help them thrive.
If you've ever supported a child with autismor adhd,
(00:46):
this episode is for you.
Let's dive in.
What are the social skills that need to bedeveloped to support neurodivergent children?
To make friends?
And what can be provided to supportneurodivergent children's social skill
development?
So, I suppose what are social skills?So social skills essentially is the ability to
(01:09):
utilize and communicate and interact withother people.
So this can be both verbal, non verbal and inmany ways, such as body language, facial
expressions, gestures and keyword signs.
And why are they important?They enable us to adapt our behavior to suit
the social context we are.
For example,
(01:30):
the way a child would greet their friend wouldbe very different to the way they greet their
principal.
So for children, these situations can includeasking a question in the classroom.
And for me, in my experience, this is not justabout putting their hand up,
but the unspoken communication from this achild may sit there and think, what does this
(01:54):
look like?If I put my hand up,
will people think I'm silly?Will people think I don't know?
So there's a lot of social convention evenaround asking a question in the classroom.
Another situation could be attending a socialevent such as a birthday party.
And I've used this example here because thisis something that I found a lot of children
(02:15):
have struggled with socially.
Because if you think about it, how many socialconventions are there at a birthday party,
then buying a present, then wrapping thepresent, writing on the card, am I saying the
right thing on the card?
Then giving the card over.
And sometimes I've even found if it's a really
cool present,
children don't usually want to give that overand I've had that many times.
(02:39):
Then it's the food,
will I like the food, how much can I eat?
Then the games, the music, I could go on andon.
Most times I've seen.
Unfortunately,
children don't often go to birthday parties atall because of the thought of all these social
conventions is just too much for them.
Another situation could be eating dinner at arestaurant.
(03:01):
And I think even just eating out in generalcan be a massive barrier,
particularly for neurodivergent children.
An example of this,
a participant I have worked with reallystruggled going to sushi train, right down to
anxiety about taking sushi off the conveyorbelt.
And all this anxiety around, what if I don'tlike it, Lara?
Am I forced to eat it?It's similar to that of attending a birthday
(03:25):
party.
There's so many social conventions that people
don't consider that are barriers until youreally break it down.
Another situation is engaging in group andpeer activities or sports.
And this is a huge one, I think, because likethat of a birthday party or eating dinner at a
restaurant, it's not just all the conventionsthat make up the interaction.
It's the social aspect of peers and just beingaccepted.
(03:48):
And for neurodiverse children, especiallythose who are very aware that there's a point
of difference between them and their peers, itcan be a really anxious thing for them to do.
And one I've definitely seen in my practice isunstructured times such as breaks or recess.
And I've witnessed this firsthand when workingin the school system, particularly when
(04:09):
there's those elective or free period times,
because neurodivergent children really thriveon that consistent, predictable and reliable
routine and that structure.
And during these times, I feel like there's
always an element of chaos.
And I definitely felt that way being a staff
member in that situation, if you will.
And I'm not saying that it's because theyweren't organized well.
(04:30):
It's just there's so many other variables thatkids, particularly neurodivergent kids, are
then having to accommodate for and consider.
But then in saying that,
why are social skills important?
So ability to adapt our behavior to suit asocial situation is so essential.
And these points I'm going to talk aboutintermittently, like they mingle with each
(04:52):
other.
So I'll start with accessing and participating
in the community.
Community access and participation isessential to ensure that children grow up to
be a contributing member of our society.
It's foundational.
And in supporting and further building upon
those points we're going to highlight here.
And I don't mean community access as just
going out and doing something like going to atheme park.
(05:14):
I'm talking about simple things like going tosee family in an environment that's not their
family home,
going grocery shopping on the weekend, goingto school.
These are all places where children buildtheir social skills just by walking out their
front door.
If this doesn't happen, it's very difficult to
build upon those social skills,
you know.
And put simply, if children don't access and
(05:35):
participate in the community, how can theyestablish these skills to build and maintain
relationships?
And when you build and maintain arelationship, it makes you feel good and this
increases your self confidence and self worth.
Additionally, if children don't engage intheir community and build these relationships,
they are missing the chance to collaboratewith others and build that sense of teamwork
(05:57):
and build effective communication skills.
So you can see I've already addressed five ofour points and how they intermingle with each
other.
So what I mean when I say also effectivecommunication is ensuring that children are
assertive in their communication so they'reconfident they're able to effectively
communicate their desires, needs, theirpreferences and wants without being passive or
(06:19):
submissive, but aggressive.
And this then supports effective conflictmanagement and resolution with peers and also
helps to maintain their emotional well being.
I think one of the biggest things of whysocial skills are important is gaining and
maintaining employment.
Linking to our previous points here, if
children don't access and participate in thecommunity and practice the skills I've just
(06:41):
mentioned, then it's more difficult for themto gain and maintain employment.
And we've touched briefly on learning andparticipation in the education environment and
definitely something I've seen in myexperience,
you know, it's more than putting their hand upin the classroom.
It's about their confidence in their abilitiesbut but also their inabilities and also
recognizing that the learning environment is aplace of growth.
(07:04):
And I think the most important one for me,especially with a social work background,
is self advocacy.
I think it's one of the most important things
about social skills, especially in the NDISspace because it enables children to assert
themselves to ensure they feel heard,supported and understood.
Really. Summary of why I believe focus skillsare important especially.
(07:28):
So suppose we need to then look at what arethe barriers faced by our neurodivergent kids.
So children learn through play and not justindependent play, but with others.
And this enables them to establish thosesocial skills.
And for neurodivergent kids this can be reallychallenging to play with a group or with each
other.
We have a look at some of these barriers inmore detail.
(07:51):
One of them is their sense of awareness ofenvironment.
So recognizing when they are welcome in agroup and maybe missing those non verbal or
verbal cues when the group may be welcoming ornot.
So that body language, those facialexpressions, those gestures.
So another barrier I've found is difficultiesin articulating and communicating and
(08:13):
regulating their Emotions.
So really it means how they feel, getting
their point across,
or expressing feelings like anger orfrustration and want is considered, I suppose,
a socially appropriate manner in a socialcontext.
This can cause a lot of misinterpretation andmisunderstanding among peers.
So you know, for example,
if a child becomes quite heightened and criesfor someone who doesn't understand them or how
(08:38):
they process things, they might notunderstand, that's just their way of coping,
where they may see them as overly emotional oroverly sensitive.
There's also a point of difference, I think incommunication and particularly in my
experience,
there can be a different way of communicating,such as speaking in third person,
being non verbal, or even using things like acommunication device, keyword, sign or
(09:02):
gestures.
And I think it's really important that otherchildren as well as their supports,
both in home, at school and in the community,are aware of their communication style and
know how to understand their communication.
So another barrier, and this is something I amquite passionate about and have had a lot of
work with, is sensory sensitivities.
(09:24):
So neurodivergent children can present with
sensory sensitivities which can hinder theirability to cope in a social situation.
So when I mean sensory,
and this is from their sensory input.
So when I talk about sensory sensitivities,
it's any thing in the environment that isgetting inputted.
So a lot of the times it's sound, taste,touch, smell, that's all sensory input.
(09:47):
And how I really like to train this.
And I've done this with support staff, but
I've done this with school staff as well, eventeachers, teachers, aides and school
management.
If you think of it like this,
if you're a neurotypical person,
you may start your day here, you wake up andthen all the sensory input comes at you and
you're threshold goes up slowly,
(10:10):
you peak,
you dip, may have your 3:30 coffee peak anddip again, go to bed and we reset.
For a neurodivergent child,
they're already up here on the sensoryheightened scale.
So some children are already waking up withheightened sensitivity to sensory input.
So one little thing that may not be a big dealto someone else is a massive deal for them.
(10:33):
So that really, really impacts their barriersand is a barrier for social skills.
So another barrier I found is emotionalawareness.
So a child's need to identify their ownfeelings, but able to recognize the feelings
in others.
Another barrier is difficulty in turn taking,so both physically in games or in conversation
(10:55):
with others.
So some children feel a lot of discomfort in
making eye contact and Others may strugglewith back and forth conversation as it
requires a lot of extra patience andstructure.
And I find thinking fondly of the children Isupported,
they, they find it very difficult to sit inthe silence.
So they're talking very fast and running intoeach other's words because we can't sit with
(11:19):
the natural pauses in a conversation.
Another barrier is understanding theperspective of others.
So theory of mind,
which I found is something that neurodivergentreally struggle with.
It's their ability to understand that othershave their own thoughts and feelings and
beliefs which can then differ from their ownand then them then seeing how it can influence
(11:40):
their peer relationships.
We've already touched on this.
But unstructured times, such as recess,
because I find neurodivergent children mayavoid these times and retreat to areas where
there's less opportunity for socialinteraction.
If they find it difficult,
they need a sense of consistency,predictability and reliability to feel safe
(12:00):
and secure.
And during these unstructured times, withoutthat structure, they don't feel that safety or
that security.
So find your child or participant couldbenefit from some further support.
So if you notice that their play may seemdifferent to other children who are the same
(12:20):
age.
So if.
Perfect example and a point of nostalgia forme.
If you think of those Thomas the Tank Enginewooden train toys,
I know my kids are really into them at themoment, which is fantastic.
But it's always, it's almost like there's aninherent unspoken way of how you must play
with this toy.
So obviously we would see, oh, you move thetrain along the track.
(12:44):
But if the, the child is lining up the trainor spinning the wheels of the train, sort of
pushing the trains along the track, that maybe a sign they need some support.
They appear to talk at a person in aconversation,
rather have a conversation with people.
So perfect example is I was working with achild who really liked dinosaurs and I'd say,
(13:07):
how are you today?And they would say back to me, I'm good, Lara.
I watched Jurassic park last night and I sawBlue and Blue was running around all this
conversation about dinosaurs completely offtopic to what had been said.
So that's maybe an indication that your childmay need some support.
They display what could be considered unsocialbehaviours, so emotional outbursts or
(13:31):
difficulty regulating their emotions duringplay.
They may have little to no interest in playingwith other children and they may struggle or
to share or take turns during play, or theymay struggle to initiate or join a group with
activities, games or supports.
Those are just some signs that could indicateyour child may need some further support.
(13:53):
I suppose this is the crux of why you're allhere is how we teach these skills.
How can someone like PBS support aneurodivergent child in teaching these skills?
And I suppose all allied health disciplines,they all have so much incredible value in
teaching social skills, speech pathology,occupational therapy,
(14:15):
social work, play therapy,
they all do amazing things to teach socialskills in their own way.
I mean, I'm just talking from the perspectiveof PBS because that is what I.
So some examples I can give you is what we'vedone is practicing social scenarios.
So ideally we'd like to practice the socialscenario in the real world context or
(14:35):
environment such as school or during a groupprogram.
And you know, for whatever reason,logistically, sometimes that just can't
happen.
And that's okay.
If we can't, we try and simulate this to somedegree how I've done it in the past.
I used to teach social emotional learning inschools.
And obviously, I mean, you can't get morecontext of being in a school.
But when I'm trying to teach a concept, I'dutilize things like media,
(14:58):
like for example, those Disney Pixar Sparkshorts, They're great little films.
They always have a really good moral backingbehind them and teach a lesson.
But I think also it's something that kids canrelate to.
And how I've taken that into PBS practice whenI'm trying to build social skills is I'll pick
a movie clip or a music video.
Done a lot of Taylor Swift when she was inAustralia, my goodness.
(15:20):
But hey, you know,
YouTube clips related to children's interests.
Because if you pick something that your child
or your participant is emotionally investedin,
they're more likely to pick up on what you'retrying to teach them because they see a point
of similarity and relationship.
And in doing this, we support children tounderstand concepts in,
(15:44):
in the media.
So I remember teaching social emotional
learning.
We would look at something and we'd go, okay,
little Susie's upset.
Okay,
how can you tell little Susie's upset?What's happened, what's going on around her?
Okay,
she's happy.
How do you know she's happy?
So really posing those questions and reallybreaking down what they're seeing on the video
(16:07):
in a real world context to understand whatthese feelings and emotions look like in a
real world context.
Obviously in a school we can also role playthe approach.
And you can do it not in the environmenteither.
I mean in a one on one scenario, I'd like toStart role playing one on one.
I would never want to put a child straightinto a situation where you go and practice the
(16:32):
social skills.
In the real world context, you want to buildup their confidence and skills first.
But we'd role play a social situation and inthe environment we'd observe them, do it, do
an age appropriate reflection, and thenproblem solve any issues.
So what worked well, what didn't work well andwhat can we do differently next time?
It's very positive and affirming language aswell.
(16:54):
I really like to work from a growth mindsetlike this is where I am, but I can always do
better.
It's, it's really, really empowering.
This also supports them to be able to initiateconversations in that real world context.
We also play a lot of games in therapy andthese allow the practice of those social
conventions.
(17:14):
And we purposely source games that are paying
attention and following the rules.
We also at these times work on being flexibleand practice losing.
Now I know especially in behavior support foryounger children,
losing can be a massive trigger for emotionaldysregulation.
So I would generally always start if,especially if it's a massive trigger, we'd
(17:35):
start with a collaborative game with a sharedcommon goal, such as doing a puzzle.
Because if you have the shared goal,
it's not so much a winning or losing thing.
It's like, how can we work together to achieve
this common goal?But we would add the conventions of turn
taking to put the pieces of the puzzletogether.
So what we can also do in the space is alsoprepare for social situations.
(17:58):
So we can also social scenario gains where wewould pose the situation and a child would say
what they would do in that situation.
So we could say something like,
for an example, if a child, I have a child whoreally likes soccer,
maybe wants to start soccer,
has had a couple of situations at soccer.
I'd go, okay, so little Susie, she's going
(18:20):
here, she's going to go to the soccer team andshe's waiting to be picked and she gets picked
last.
What would you do in that situation?And we let it be really organic.
And instead of,
you know, you wouldn't say to some, to achild, oh no, that's not the right thing to
do.
We want to build their skills, build the
capacity to understand well, what,
(18:41):
what would work, what wouldn't work and why.
Because if they know the why, they're morelikely to implement the how.
And it helps to understand what socialconventions may or may not be appropriate.
We then expand on that using the what, how,why, when and who questions to initiate and
maintain a conversation practice.
(19:02):
So I could say something like I went to the
beach.
Okay, I've given you that information.
What can we do to expand to keep theconversation going?
So we give the prompts.
We could ask which beach?
Who did you go with?Why did you go there?
What did you do there?Because this supports children to show their
interest in the topic but also assists inpractising that reciprocal conversation and
(19:23):
turn taking also assists the child inidentifying who the main speaker is.
We need to pay attention to them, but also weneed not to try and change the topic until
they've completed their story.
We also work with Kouran to discuss levels offriendship as well as identifying a
relationship with someone.
So a lot of things I've looked at with
children,
(19:44):
my experience is sort of like good friend, badfriend, what does a good friend look like to
you?And I tell you,
the answers I get for each child I've workedwith are very, very different of what their
understanding of a good friend or to a badfriend is.
So we do that and we work.
With them to identify and understand how timeis important to develop relationships with
(20:07):
people and to understand the more time thatthey interact with the person, they develop
that stronger relationship.
Because a lot of times I've worked withneurodivergent kids that after one interaction
they get very disheartened that they're notgetting reciprocal feelings.
So that really helps to understand thatrelationships take time.
It takes time to build that rapport withpeople and we get them, we get them to help to
(20:31):
understand.
Once you build that friendship, they start to
feel safe and they start to share more abouttheir life and find a common ground.
Another thing we like to do in this space isby teaching emotional and self regulation
techniques such as breathing exercises,
five count breathing and deep belly breathsare just some examples.
I really like to make these person centered tothe child.
(20:54):
We kind of bring a whole plethora of differentemotional regulation techniques and then we
kind of go based on what suits them.
And some things, some kids are happy to do andsome kids, some kids aren't.
It's just, that's just the way it is.
You know that they're happy with some and
they're not with others and it helps to managetheir frustration, calm down routines.
(21:17):
Sometimes it's movement based regulation.
I once had a child working within a school
when they were getting frustrated or upset,they used to signal to me, lara, I need to go
for a run.
Yep, let's go for a run.
And they do two laps of the oval better than
me.
But hey, you know, that's what worked for them
also really empowering them to use that selfadvocacy.
(21:39):
I remember because my experience was working alot with year sevens and year eight.
So that younger end of the high school wereally were trying to empower and teach them
that if we're wanting to leave the classroom,it's not always that you're in trouble.
And I found that they got that a lot inprimary school was if I have to leave the
(22:00):
classroom, I'm automatically in trouble.
And it took quite a long time to get them tounderstand, no, if I need to leave the
classroom to regulate myself because I need abreak or I feel frustrated, then that's okay.
So that's something,
I suppose in the PBS space has been one of thethings I've done in my practice to teach those
skills.
(22:21):
So we're going to do a little case study.
There's going to be another poll and hopefullywe can get to work so I can see everyone's
amazing answers.
So,
going to talk about.
I'll just let you know.
Unfortunately the poll doesn't seem to beworking, but we're having some really
fantastic engagement with the chat.
Oh, that's awesome.
(22:43):
Yeah. What we can ask everyone to do is ifthey can just pop their answers directly into
the chat, that would be wonderful.
That'd be wonderful.
And then, Mel, can you please read out some of
the answers if that would be fantastic for me?
Yes, I have some of the goals from earlier aswell.
Would you like me to read out some of them?
Yes, we'll take a look.
Brief pause.
I'd love to hear some of the goals.
(23:04):
I'm really eager.
There's a couple of questions scatteredthrough there that are administrative ones, so
I'll answer those as I go.
So one looks at certificate of attendance, if
you need one, let us know and we can send youout.
One definitely.
Question around whether we service in NewSouth Wales and I'm sorry, I should have
mentioned, we are Queensland, New South Wales,Victoria and Wa.
(23:26):
Regarding goals, we have a lot of reallywonderful goals in here.
A lot of goals around social connection.
Simple goals such as being able to put theirbag on a hook and the drink bottle and
lunchbox in the trolley.
Goals around being independent,
being able to get social emotional support andbuilding real deep connections socially
(23:52):
beautiful.
Being able to engage and interact with periodsso that the children aren't feeling excluded
or different.
Being able to participate in a small groupgame with two or three peers, with some
support.
Lovely Being able to move independently andjoin in activities with others.
So lots of really lovely social goals andemployment as a goal as well.
(24:17):
Excellent.
That's so lovely to hear.
Friendships, building positive peerrelationships.
Increasing access access to community basedactivities to maintain and develop healthy
friendships.
Yeah. Lot around making friendships and beingconfident in social activities.
Being able to do non preferred tasks to be arock star.
(24:42):
That's fantastic.
Which is wonderful.
Yeah.
And just a couple of questions around slidesand recording.
The recording will be sent out after thewebinar to everyone and the slides will be
available to download from the webinar lobbyafter the event as well.
(25:05):
Excellent.
So I will hand back to you Lara.
So once you've prompted everyone for the next
question, I'll give them 30 seconds or so.
Yeah.
And then I'll start reading out some of theanswers for you.
Awesome.
Just going to do a little case study now aboutLucas.
So Lucas is an 8 year old boy with autismspectrum disorder.
(25:29):
His psychologist has assessed that hemaintains a pathological demand avoidance
profile associated with his diagnosis.
He attends a mainstream primary school and
excels academically.
However struggles with social interactions
particularly particularly engaging in thosereciprocal conversations and understanding
social cues.
His difficulties have led to occasionalemotional outbursts when becoming frustrated
(25:54):
which has led to ongoing isolation andmisunderstanding with peers.
So what I'd really like you to think about arewhat are some of the challenges from that
information?
Think about what challenges could he beexperiencing?
What could his behaviour look like socially?What could some of the things barriers be?
What sort of things could we be seeing?
(26:16):
So let's actually see this in action forLucas.
So he received behaviour support funding inhis NDIS plan period.
PBS practitioner was allocated and they workedtogether developed a PBS plan and it included
the following.
We had the emotional regulation tools, we hadintroduced Lucas to sensory breaks, some
(26:36):
coping strategies and we trialed many.
And Lucas found that deep breathing,
stretching or a quiet space to access duringthose times of emotional distress was really
helpful for him to regulate his emotions.
Social stories.
I was so happy when someone said social
stories.
We introduce personal personalized social
stories that outline appropriate ways for himto engage in a conversation and recognize
(27:00):
these emotions in others.
He has been able to apply these and has beenable to slowly start developing some initial
social interactions with peers.
We did some structured social skills trainingso we did some guided practice sessions like I
was talking about before.
In turn taking through playing games ofLucas's interests, initiating conversations
and responding to peers appropriately throughrole play which have resulted in Lucas
(27:25):
engaging in more group activities at his ownpace.
At school,
we gave some teachers support and training.
So we provided educators the training in the
behavior support techniques outlined in hisplan.
We talked about the skills and the strategiesthat we can put in place.
But we also talked about what Lucas hasidentified as emotional regulation strategies
(27:47):
for himself.
And he was also paired with a peer buddy tomodel appropriate social behavior.
We also put in place visual cues and prompts,such as laminated cars with zones of
regulation faces and corresponding colors andconversation starters to assist him with
understanding feelings and socialexpectations.
(28:08):
The teacher put in place a daily schedule inthe classroom.
And along with these social cue cards andemotional identification charts, it's helped
him to anticipate these transitions andrecognize emotions in himself and other
people,
which has supported him to be able tocommunicate without as many emotional
outbursts when he's escalated, heightened andtriggered the outcome.
(28:29):
For Lucas, in applying all these supports,he's demonstrated gradual improvements in his
ability to navigate these social settings.
His frustration levels have decreased,
his behaviors have decreased, and he's learnedto recognize and manage his emotions through
structured strategies that suit him.
His peer interactions became more positivewith fewer behavioral outbursts.
(28:51):
And increased engagement in these groupactivities and continued engagement with
behaviour support will help him to build thatresilience and adaptability in more complex
social scenarios.
There are some practical strategies that youcan put in place now to support your child and
participant.
So I've done a few here.
(29:14):
So one is to create those sensory friendlyspaces.
So adapting spaces at home or even in theeducation environment to meet their sensory
needs.
Quiet corners with soft lighting,
even if you've seen it, Kmart and Target,there's little pop up tents.
I've had work with a lot of parents to putthem in place and even schools.
(29:35):
One mum, she was so extra with it, I loved it.
She put little battery powered fairy lights up
the top because that's what their childneeded.
It was fantastic.
You can really personalize it to your child's
needs, put their own little toys in it.
I've also seen trampolines and swings becauseit really helps children to meet those sensory
(29:58):
needs to help calm them down.
So another one is support social skilldevelopment.
So encouraging the engagement in peer andgroup activities with peers that align with
the child's interests and likes supports themto establish those social skills in a natural
way.
And so like I was saying before,
if they're going to do things that engage inthese things, yes, there's going to be some
(30:22):
anxiety around that.
But if it's around their likes and interests,
there's more of A hopefully a more natural buyin.
And then those social skills are taught in amore organic way because they're doing
something that's circulated around whatthey're like engaging with other allied health
professionals such as an occupational, aspeech therapist or a play therapist as well
(30:43):
as PBS can work on building these socialskills, like I've said here,
in group or familiar settings and it supportsthese neurodivergent kids in building these
friendships.
Another one is establishing routines.
So one that I've really carried through from
working in schools and into PBS is kids needespecially neurodivergent kids need
(31:05):
consistency, predictability and reliabilityand creating these routines provides structure
and stability which reduces anxiety.
Setting these regular meal times and evensleep routines support to create habits so
that when changes do occur it can help them toadjust more smoothly.
Another thing is to promote opencommunication,
(31:26):
being at their level, using their language butadding those visual aids to communicate with
neurodivergent kids.
Name feelings, Name the feeling.
Let the children know that these are okay.
However, we just need to manage them inappropriate ways and with patience and
encouragement it can really help children toexpress themselves more comfortably.
(31:47):
Linking back to what I said before,encouraging interests and talents and
involving children in things that they likeprovides that natural setting for building
confidence and social skills and it helps themto feel more recognised and valued.
Something else I really encourage because inthe PBS space we're not just working with the
child, we're working with the whole supportnetwork and that includes families and a lot
(32:12):
of the participants I work with, I do a lot ofparent support and being that support person
and being part of their network.
It definitely takes a village to raisechildren.
So local online support groups offer a chancefor parents to connect, share experiences and
learn from situations.
And it will vary depending on where you're
located.
(32:32):
But also prioritising self care, making surethat you take care of yourself because it
makes it easier to take care of a child whenyou take time for yourself.
And this is where PBS can support, I supposein that space to advocate to utilise those
NDIS resources such as respite care or supportworkers to manage that stress and maintain
(32:54):
balance.
Thank you, Lara.
That's okay.
There's a question around occupational therapyand how that can work within with behaviour
support.
I can talk a little bit to that to begin with.
So a lot of the disciplines have a bit of
(33:14):
overlap and actually work really, really welltogether.
So one of the things.
So occupational therapists will teach a lot ofemotional regulation skills skills as well.
They'll Teach a lot of grounding skills.
So square breathing, diaphragm breathing,
tell me five things you can hear, five thingsyou can feel, five things you can smell.
(33:36):
So those sorts of strategies that are reallyhelpful and they can work hand in hand with
behaviour support,
but they'll also do sensory profiles as well.
So some of the challenges that neurodivergent
kids might be experiencing at school is thatperhaps they're very sensory seeking, so they
(33:57):
really want lots of deep pressure, they wantto be bouncing and jumping and moving, and
it's really challenging to be sitting still inthe classroom for a long time.
So an occupational therapist can actually findout what someone's sensory profile is and
build a sensory diet.
So find ways that we can build in some of thesensory input that they need when they're in
(34:19):
class.
Or it might even be that they have a very lowsensory profile for auditory input, so they
don't like a lot of sound.
And school classrooms are very busy and very
noisy, so it might be getting them someheadphones to screen out some of the noise, et
cetera.
So all of that really useful information willreally support the sort of strategies that a
(34:42):
behaviour support practitioner will implement.
And we find that they work really, really
nicely together, hand in hand.
There's a question around whether this is apurely behavioural approach, and I think this
sort of dovetails nicely into a questionaround behaviour and whether we see behaviour
as just part of a person and part of theirpersonality,
(35:06):
or are we looking at behaviour as a form ofcommunication?
Do you have some comments around that,
Lara?
I do definitely do something I'm verypassionate about in the PBS space and when I'm
doing training, behaviour is a form ofcommunication.
That's what I truly believe.
It's really looking at the underlying thingsof.
From that behaviour, you can see positive ornegative.
(35:30):
What are you trying to communicate from that?
So I definitely think if looking at strippingit back, looking at the behavior that you see
as a form of communication, and that'sdefinitely what I teach and train in my
practice,
what I do when I'm supervising and teamleading staff.
So, yeah, definitely behaviour is a form ofcommunication.
(35:52):
It's just looking at the why behind thecommunication.
Yeah, and seeing behaviour as a way of havingneeds met.
So we're not looking at behaviour, but reallywhat is it trying to communicate?
So we need to look at the environment,
make sure that's meeting the child's needs,look at the way the child's being supported,
looking at those around the child,
(36:12):
etc. As well.
So we're almost out of time, but just toquickly explain for people.
So behaviour support practitioners will oftenhave a different allied health background, so
they may have come from social work or fromoccupational therapy background or psychology
or speech pathology.
So they can have one of those backgrounds aswell.
(36:33):
And it sort of obviously their approach willdiffer and slightly different skill set based
on all of that.
So that's all that we have time for today.
Thank you so much everyone for coming along.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you to Melanie and Lara for sharingtheir expertise.
(36:54):
If you'd like to connect with us and learnmore about live big, visit livebig.com don't
forget to subscribe for more conversationslike this.
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you nexttime.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of thisnation whose country we work and live in.
We recognise Aboriginal and Torres StraitIslanders as traditional custodians and their
(37:17):
ongoing connections to land and sea.
We pay our respects to elders past, presentand emerging as law keepers of the world's
oldest living culture.
We celebrate the stories,
culture and traditions of Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islanders so we can, in the true
spirit of reconciliation,
(37:38):
continue the journey together.
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