December 17, 2024 • 48 mins
Today’s interview is with Tyler Manning (he/him) musician, producer, and co-founder of Boredom Fighters youth music and events organization. We’re going to learn about music in schools, the by-city chapter approach to a non-profit, and figuring out how to get your talented pals paid.
One takeaway I can offer you already? Create more than you consume.
Mentioned in this Episode:
Boredom Fighters
Gardenboi Sound
Duncan Trussell
Rick Rubin
Broken Record Podcast
Song Exploder
The Instrument Garden
If you enjoyed this interview, find Tyler online at ThankfullyTyler.
Submit your own community questions for our guests here!
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers themselves and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Living Arts Detroit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, I'm Laura Scales, a dedicated arts facilitator, career counselor, and the CEO ofLiving Arts Detroit.
Join us as we chat with both experienced and emerging artistic professionals who haveignited their creativity and shaped their careers to thrive while living in the arts.
Today's interview is with Tyler Manning.
He's a musician, producer, and co-founder of the Boredom Fighters Youth Music and EventsOrganization.
(00:24):
We're going to learn about music in schools, the city chapter approach to a nonprofit,
and figuring out how to get your talented pals paid.
One takeaway I can offer you already, create more than you consume.
For more, stay tuned.
Hello and welcome to the Living in the Arts podcast.
(00:44):
I'm so excited to be here with my brand new co-host, Claire Howe.
That's me, hello.
Today we are interviewing Tyler from Boredom Fighters and we're so excited to get thisconversation started today.
Tyler, do you want to start us off with a brief introduction?
Yeah, hey, I'm Tyler Manning.
I am one of the co-founders of Boredom Fighters and I have a music project called GardenBoy and I've been living in the arts for
(01:10):
I sell it 10 years now.
Amazing.
So one of the things that I love to do in this podcast is start us off with a good thingand a bad thing.
That's how we do our meetings at Living Arts.
And throughout my career, there's only one rule is that you can have two good things, butyou can't have two bad things.
(01:30):
So, you know, it's very strict here.
I could kick us off with an example if it's helpful.
My first good thing is that I am working on a new scarf pattern and I'm really excitedabout crocheting it.
I won't lie, it's crazy colors and they're coming together in a way that looks like theKugis sweaters my father wore back in the day.
(01:54):
Wild.
I know.
Wild indeed.
We're taking it all the way back because he was rocking all those sweaters.
And then my other good thing is that I'm excited that Claire's joining us for the podcastco-hosting.
So yeah, Claire, do you wanna?
Yeah, my good thing this week is, so an old friend of mine from high school has recentlymoved to the city of Chicago.
(02:19):
So I got to spend some time with her this week and it's been really fresh to get toreconnect with someone who doesn't know any stories about when I've actually been an
adult, but does know all the stories about when I was a chaotic teen writing fan fiction.
that's the good.
The bad is my cat has decided he should be fed at 630 and not 730.
(02:40):
So it's been a rough week, but we're working on fixing his sense of time again.
So yeah.
Tyler.
Did that cat a watch?
Yeah, right?
It's like, my god, Al, please.
It's too early.
Yeah, cool.
OK, good thing.
Good thing I just finished a sound healing album, and I'm really excited about it.
(03:03):
playing it out, doing some things with that, and it's coming together.
Bad thing?
You know, I had a conversation yesterday actually with someone in the school system, andI've confirmed that Detroit is not equipped in the music department, in schools, all
throughout the district.
I thought it would be a little bit more ahead, but there's a lot of people struggling inthe school system, so bad thing, really bad thing.
(03:29):
Yeah.
That is a bad thing that took us two years and a really good grant to fix.
So I'm happy to connect offline and give you that list of funding sources we found.
Yeah, that was something lost on us as well.
So tell us about how you got into the arts and how your path has like led you to where youare now.
(03:51):
How to get started.
Yeah, guess I started with throwing parties.
I mean, I grew up in school being a part of
Trying to be part of social gatherings is best of my ability.
was something that I spent a lot of my time in, even in school, was just gathering peopletogether and it evolved to throwing these different parties, needing music at the parties,
(04:13):
starting to DJ.
A friend of mine showed me music production and I was just so excited about it when hefirst showed me it that I was very intimidated by it.
I was like, that sounds like a lot of thinking and
clicking, but I'll play the music that you make for other people." And so we had a littleduo project going where he was making music, I was DJing it, and we were throwing these
(04:37):
parties with that.
It was in a small town, so there wasn't a lot of music industry that I was exposed to inthat space.
I was just kind of existing in the party space.
And we tried to take it into the venue space, and it felt like there was a lot missingfrom what I would need to learn how to do that right.
Eventually it led to taking an internship at a festival in Colorado, moving out toColorado for a while to work for some other festival folks.
(05:04):
And that kind of launched the whole journey of, wow, this is way deeper than I thought itwas and we could go party outside.
And then it turned into, wow, like it's not just a party.
There's like intention here and people working on massive projects and change in the worldby just.
getting together, using the party as a vehicle that convince people to get together and dosomething.
(05:28):
And then when they're all together sharing their ideas and thoughts, it turned into a lot.
And that was a rise festival was the first one that I worked for out in Colorado.
That's so sick.
Yeah.
And that kind of lifted it off, but I'll try not to tangent on the whole story.
I mean, I'm probably going to ask you a question about that in just a little bit, but I,but we sort of have this, this one, like,
(05:50):
pillar question of when did you know you were in this industry for the long haul?
Like, was there a moment that you were like, I'm going to be around music for the rest ofmy life?
Yeah, yeah, Paul Bass, he's one of the producers of Arise Festival.
He told me if there's any advice I can give you on the music industry is to get out.
(06:11):
Yeah, that sounds similar to advice I've given about theater.
Yeah.
Well, it was good.
paused for a long period of time and I just really let that soak in.
And he said, now, if I can convince you with just my words right now to get out because ofwhat I said here, like, you're not meant for this.
(06:32):
And I had no doubt that he was not, he was not convinced of me in that moment to get out.
And so that told me like, okay, you're right.
Like this guy who's been doing this for 20, 30 years.
is not recommending that I do this and I still feel called to do it.
So here we go.
Let's see what we can figure out.
So you're talking about this festival and as someone who like, I don't know a lot aboutfestivals.
(06:55):
People have asked me about festivals because I do a lot of event management stuff.
And I feel like just telling someone that you've been involved running like a productioncompany, different record label stuff, a nonprofit, it's like, and festivals is sort of
like a.
a very formidable stack of different types of organizations.
And so I'm curious, I wanna hear you talk about discovering like how and what is right foryou in terms of like short term and long term orgs that you're involved with.
(07:27):
Like it feels like you've done so many different types of things under the umbrella of themusic industry.
How did you decide and what worked and what didn't?
Yeah, good question.
I feel like it's just kind of uncovered itself.
I've definitely had some moments where I've set goals and thought about it.
Every day kind of reevaluate what I'm spending my energy on, which isn't always thehealthiest because I want to be consistent.
(07:53):
I think I've just constantly been that way as long as I can remember just constantlyevaluating what I'm spending my energy on.
And it seems like no matter what I do, I just cannot help but feel called to findsolutions to
connect the music industry to the schools and the kids that don't have it.
Maybe it has to do with growing up not having a lot, but I just feel like no matter what,as soon as I stop thinking about something on purpose, my brain just automatically
(08:22):
defaults to building out the infrastructure for that to work.
It took a lot of navigating different things.
would say literally this month was
The first time I would say in ever my time working in the space that I've been adamantabout saying no to anything but this one thing that I want to work on.
(08:44):
And it was just like, opportunity, let's see what happens.
Opportunity.
let's see.
the collective consciousness thinks we should do this thing.
Well, let's try it and see what happens.
And I just always really love starting fires and starting things, building things andseeing other people use them.
(09:04):
I've always felt like my friend here is so talented at this thing.
Like if only somebody could figure out a way to pay them to do this thing that they do andthey didn't have to do this other thing that they don't like to do.
So all these ideas, all these businesses have just been platforms to do that, to say,you're really good at making art.
Like what if we had you paint at this event?
(09:26):
Like, you're really good at calling a bunch of people that don't want to hear you talk.
Do you want to start an agency?
You know, it's like,
I feel like always has been circulated around that, but the nonprofit space really startedto expose itself to me after going into a school with, we were invited to go to a school
to talk about the music industry and we had already been doing a lot with the installationand the different record label stuff.
(09:53):
So we made music with kids in a classroom and it was that, that day was, okay, this iswhat I need to spend my energy on.
That really opened up a door of possibility.
And after that day, I started every day working in the industry.
just felt more and more like, maybe this isn't for me.
(10:13):
And working with kids is much more up my alley.
just maybe am a kid.
I don't know why, but the working with kids and working with the nonprofit space and justfamily friendly events has been the, the evolution out of the hedonistic.
party lifestyle that started it all.
(10:38):
I feel like there are a few stronger communities than festival, like being in the momentwith the music and with the art and, you know, the makers spaces that are happening.
Yeah, there's just so many roles.
There's so many roles and I love that you're offering so many opportunities for people toget involved.
(10:59):
I think that's incredible of like everyone has a gift.
Everyone has something to contribute.
Everyone is invited.
Having multiple locations.
So you have many different states that you are operating of.
Can you talk about the process of getting boredom fighters on its feet and then kind ofthe spread across the country and how those cities were chosen?
(11:20):
To reference
the multi-city thing.
I really got a shout out Facebook.
It might be falling off nowadays, like it has always felt like if we needed something, wecould just post a status and see who is interested in being part of that idea and then
letting the opportunities unfold.
(11:41):
It's kind of like being able to ask the collective consciousness, like, Hey, what's, whatdo you guys think of this?
You know, maybe it's a bit of an echo chamber music industry echo chamber that we'vecreated in.
our timeline, during the festival, we were in Colorado throwing a festival in Michiganwhen it started.
And it was like, I'm from the Michigan, Indiana area.
(12:03):
So I had some friends there and my whole intention in Colorado was to learn how to do thestuff that is so epic there and bring it back home.
So I made these friends in Colorado and then
I'm like, all right guys, so now we got this thing together, we're going to Michigan.
And they're all like, okay, great, let's get on the bus.
And so we're posting statuses and we're, know, hey, anyone have a pickup truck and 500pounds of pallets, know, whatever these random requests are.
(12:34):
And so it was just always about making posts, finding other people in the community thatwe're already partially attached to and just building from that.
I mean, every department of the festival was filled by reaching out to the community andsaying, Hey, what, what do you want to do?
How do you want to use this platform?
And then boredom fighters expanded in the same way.
(12:56):
You know, people reach out and say, Hey, I want to do something here in my town.
What can I do?
And we've really been working to build out this chapter model.
It seems like activist communities and other nonprofit communities use this kind of modelwhere
They build up a chapter and people can just plug into the infrastructure and use it.
So we spent the last few years just really trying to understand how that can work and howwe can say, well, here's how we do it.
(13:23):
Now you take this infrastructure, ask us for help and we'll figure it out as we go.
So it started in Colorado.
We were doing a lot of work just around the front range, around the Denver area, theBoulder area.
And we put out a post.
Facebook, hey, we're looking for somebody to do work in Fort Collins because we knowthere's a grant in Fort Collins and if we do the work in Fort Collins, we can get that
(13:47):
grant and we just need to activate in that area.
And so we found Mike.
Mike McTernan.
He's an absolute superstar with running a nonprofit and just being involved with youtheducation.
So yeah, crazy.
He applied to do this thing and
We had a little bit of a budget that we could invest and it was basically like, all right,we're going to invest in this guy for a year and see what happens.
(14:12):
And we put most of our resources into investing in him while all of us are volunteering tobuild the rest of the organization and do the work on the ground floor in Denver and
Boulder.
And after one year, his impact was double what we were already doing.
It was just a very obvious sign that that kind of model can work.
(14:32):
but we still were like, but now we're out of money because we just spent it all investingin this guy.
His impact went up and that was great.
But now what do we got to do to figure this out?
So we've worked on some more grants.
finally got the grant from Bohemian Foundation for Fort Collins chapter now, which isamazing.
And that's going to support Mike through this year.
It was about two years of work to get to the point where now Mike can get paid a salary torun everything.
(14:57):
Working with him.
It's just a long journey, you know, it's crazy.
I'm sure you guys have gone through it too.
Just like coming from scarcity mindset where we're just like, same thing with thefestivals.
Okay.
We don't have the budget that this actually needs, but we feel very called to do this.
So we're going to do it and just keep doing it until it works itself out.
(15:18):
My friends and especially my partners at board and fighters have tried to reel me backfrom doing the thing before we have the funding.
Yeah.
That's Claire and I.
I'm like, wait, I like this too.
Yeah.
I mean, you have an idea.
It's like, we can do it.
That's the realization here lately.
(15:39):
And especially now that I'm working just deeper in the gig economy with my music projectand freelancing for other festivals, like, just because you can do it doesn't always mean
you should because sometimes you might be
exhausting somebody's resources.
And I think what I've learned really from that is just like, making sure everybody feelsthe energy exchange is good for them, and that it's good for what we're working on and not
(16:08):
just expecting everybody to do all these things all the time.
So this multi city operation thing is really, it's helped me dial back into saying like,okay, this is the intention.
Here's who's down to help.
Now let's really just establish
what everyone wants to do for sure, get them to commit to it and say, this is what I cando.
(16:29):
And then we have a plan, we pull it off and then we add to it later.
Don't just add everything out the gate and expect everybody to figure it out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So here we are.
I'm here in Michigan and Detroit feels like it's really where another chapter needs to be.
I feel really called to be here.
Colorado is taken care of.
(16:50):
mean, they put 4,000 kids in the studio without me last year.
Just, it's insane.
That's so good.
That's so cool.
It also feels so rewarding when it's like they did it and I had nothing to do.
I, that's like a testament to the process and to the organization where it's like, yeah,that's a huge amount of students and that would be incredible anywhere.
(17:15):
And I think that that's just.
I lost my train of thought halfway through because I got excited.
Yeah, well, I'm going to jump in.
Kind of dovetailing on that, I was reading the information that you sent us ahead of timeand something that meant a lot to me and I'm sure means a lot to these kids, but also just
means a lot to many artists in the world is this idea of you're very transparent aboutyour inspiration around mental health and all these things and like...
(17:39):
I think you wrote, was like something along the lines of if I was in an accident, then atleast I wouldn't have to like X, Y or Z as part of the sort of like impetus for making
these orgs and doing these things.
I guess I don't have a great formed question yet, but I think like as much as like thatthought is common, is way too common of like, well, know, if I was hit by a bus today, I
(18:04):
wouldn't have to go to my job or something.
And like,
I'm curious to hear you talk about the ways that recognizing that thought process andgetting to do the things that you're doing now and sort of like how those things connect
or if that thought process has changed or in what ways, what ways sort of doing thesethings has helped mental health wise.
Yeah, that really has been the fuel.
(18:28):
Even how scary it is to just be out of money and working on something that might not bemaking me money.
I come from a town where a lot of people work in a factory or something where it's justeverybody is obsessed with getting as much overtime as they can in the factory and they
don't like who they're working for or they don't even like what they're doing.
(18:52):
And I think that it makes a lot of people angry.
It makes a lot of people depressed and they, they wake up.
The first thing they think is I'm going to go do this thing that I really don't want todo.
And I don't see myself changing that for the next 40 years.
And then they go to work, they get home, they're exhausted, they're angry, they're sad,they have no energy for their family.
(19:18):
And then they do that.
And that's the box that they feel like they need to be in.
I think the school system has a lot to do with creating that mindset.
And it's not our teacher's fault, but I just think that is how the education system hasbeen built is like you get up at this time.
You go work for somebody, you get off, and then you figure it out.
I was waking up going to work in a factory and feeling like, if I got an accident rightnow, at least I wouldn't have to be at work.
(19:46):
That exact thought.
And when I realized I was having that thought, it dawned on me that, wow, all these otherpeople I work with probably feel this way too.
And maybe that's why half the town is like...
on drugs, disassociating, or just angry.
You go to the gas station and you try to start a conversation with someone and they justdon't want anything to do with you.
They're just not in that mode, you know?
(20:08):
And that made me very motivated to create creative opportunities and just figure out howto solve this.
It was like, okay, if we could put on events where people could come and be creative andthey could actually get paid, my thought on the whole festival thing and solving that
problem is like,
It's kind of like when you and all your homies throw down on a pizza.
(20:29):
It's like, okay, this is what we're going to get.
You know, like with a festival, it's like you have 2000 people say, all right, we'll allpay $50 to experience this art.
And you give that to all the artists who are going to create the art for us to be a partof and everybody's happy.
And it seemed like a model that can totally work, especially if you have a large communitythat they don't have something like that.
(20:52):
It's not like a very small town I come from.
It's just on the precipice of rural.
It's the RV factory capital of the United States.
So it's just factories and farms and not a lot in between, you know?
And so that's what I gathered.
I will say now going back home, I have a lot of respect for the music industry that isgrowing there and there are people doing a lot of good work there.
(21:15):
Maybe they were always doing it and I didn't see them in that community I grew up in justkind of felt like it was in that box.
But I think overall that
that thought of like, people hate what they're getting up and spending their energy on.
If I can put my energy towards creating a platform for people to not do that, I'll feelgood at the end of the day that I know that my time spent on this planet helped a couple
(21:38):
of people wake up and just feel excited to do what it is that they're going to do today.
That's so incredibly inspiring.
Yeah.
School trains us to work.
Yeah.
There is a deep capitalist, anti-capitalist, I should say, rant to go on here.
And I'm not going to let us go too far down it, but at some point, we're just going tomake the anti-capitalist episode of Living in the Arts that's like, the whole thing is set
(22:02):
up to make you have to go to work every day.
And it's not, it doesn't have to be like that.
AKA the thing I try to avoid every podcast where I'm like, and if we didn't live in latestage capitalism, then we could, like so.
Ideally, we can work on it in a micro.
Capitalism as a whole, on a macro level, I will say I have no clue how to defeat that orwork around it, but I think working on it in the community and just skill sharing and
(22:28):
finding a way to share resources amongst the people that are in our space is like, we canat least create that bubble.
Although it is so scary often to leave the box because the factory job thing is like.
Well, they know they're going to get their benefits.
They know their insurance paid.
A lot of these people have kids already.
have things that they need to take care of.
(22:48):
So am I going to go and try to build myself as an artist and maybe it take me four yearsto be able to make a living wage or can I just go sweat for these people I don't like and
then at least my bills are paid.
You know, it's, scary to take that jump for sure.
I think it's absolutely terrifying in a way that like,
(23:09):
I forgot who said it, but someone said like just making that choice.
Like that choice is what defines so many things that come out in the arts just in general,just like the, need to make art and I choose to live my life making art.
So, but I think you're right about the micro sense and really community being the way thatwe can defeat these systems that are put in place.
(23:37):
Community care is essential and it's not.
Community care is really important.
Speaking of making art though, you have mentioned a couple times, you're also a musician,you also make your own art, you are not just facilitating it in others.
We would love to hear about your artistic process.
How do you go about making stuff?
It's crazy because I DJed for 10 years and I was managing artists.
(24:03):
I almost started making music myself 10 years ago.
I was a little bit thrown off by how confusing it can be at the time.
And so I dabbled in making my own music, but I started meeting all these really talentedcreators and deciding that instead of trying to spend all my energy getting my creativity,
(24:25):
getting my art flow to the point where theirs is, like they're already there, I could justhelp them and we can all be around each other.
So through that,
throwing the events, starting the agency, managing artists, routing tours, all that work.
I was around all these really incredible producers, living with them.
(24:46):
Just being around all these wonderful musicians all the time, it got to the point where Iknew how to make music just by being around it all the time.
But I still didn't really dive into it.
I was still DJing.
This was like 2012 through 2018.
I'm DJing, I'm hanging out with all these people who make awesome music and that becomesmy friend group.
(25:11):
I'm pretty much only hanging out with producers and musicians.
And then we go into the classroom, we teach kids about the music industry, we make a songwith these kids.
I still am not making music at this point.
And we started teaching kids how to make music and I was facilitating this.
Hey kids, like, you know, here's how we make music.
(25:31):
And I still don't make music.
had a kid actually walk up to me in a class and say, where can I go listen to your music?
And I was like, I actually don't have any music anywhere.
I've never created my own song, but I've helped all these people create songs.
And so I realized in that moment, like, I guess the sentiment I want to share is that foreight years or so, it felt like selfish for me to work on my own stuff because all these
(25:58):
people around me.
They knew how to make great music, but they didn't know a lot about their own events orbusiness.
So I was just like, well, I know how to do that.
You know how to do that?
We worked together.
It felt like if I was to go work on my own stuff, I was doing them a disservice.
But the whole time, I'm asking artists to release music in this way.
I'm asking artists to do all these things, and I don't know what it's like, really.
(26:21):
I didn't even realize at the time, I didn't know what it was like.
I'm confident.
I'm just like, yeah, I probably have a grasp on what it's like to be you.
So I'm going to help you.
live your life.
And I realized in the last few years, I need to make music if I want to know what it'slike to be an artist and convince other people to be an artist.
Because that's really what this is about.
It's like, hey, quit your job and make music because you want to and it feels right.
(26:45):
If that's what you want to do, you can do that.
But by the way, I don't actually know what that's like.
So it really, yeah, it was really like
It finally dawned on me that it would be very beneficial for me to understand the artist'smentality in the process of creating and releasing music and playing shows, playing a
performance of music that you made.
(27:06):
So 2018, 2019, I started dabbling a little deeper and just Ableton playing with somestuff.
I've always played guitar and really liked playing instruments and just felt musical.
And then 2020.
when COVID happened, I took my first classes online for making music and the great reset,you know, I feel like I hear this story so much, but when COVID happened, I finally
(27:30):
started making something.
And it's like, that was really where it took place.
So I started hanging out with the people in my circle, creating music, and just constantlyworking on things and figuring out how I was rapping a lot, playing a lot of instruments,
producing beats, and just kind of finding out where I wanted to land in that space.
Cause I come from the dubstep community, the high energy bass music space.
(27:54):
It started in the metal scene growing up, but it eventually led to go into dubstep showsand Skrillex and Rusco and that whole world kind of opened up a whole understanding of
what's possible for me.
So coming from that space, I felt like there was kind of the, the hole I wanted to fill inthat space was the, the meditative experience within the bass space.
(28:17):
Cause it's always
Not always, but a lot of what I experienced was aggressive.
And I wanted to experience the bass and the rumbling of the subwoofers and the highquality sound system experience.
But I wanted to find a way to carve out a calm space within that that feels grounded.
And I've always been a big fan of yoga and meditation.
(28:39):
So I've been trying to just figure out where my sound lands in the emotional introspectivemeditative.
Beats and non-beats sound healing and ambient stuff.
So lately it's been a lot of just freeform melodies over so fed you frequencies and subfrequencies that last a long time.
(29:01):
And it kind of opens up one big movement where you just are in this ethereal space and themelodies are frolicking without too much rhythm holding it together.
It's just very ambient.
I'm about to go lay on my floor and listen to Garden Boy is what's about to happen.
Like 110%.
(29:21):
I was like, this is exactly, but I mean, like that's incredible that that's where that'swhere your creativity and exploration took you.
No, yeah, don't get me wrong.
I still really love my short attention span beats and making beats is just something thatfeels like very right for me and captivating that kind of energy.
But it's been a very
(29:42):
This past six months or so, I've been really honing in on the sound healing and workingwith this really awesome sound healing collective out of Benton Harbor called Sound
Medicine.
And they have a bunch of these crazy gongs and all the bowls and they have bowls that arelike funnels and they shoot the healing energies at you while you're laying on the ground
(30:02):
getting this base massage.
It's definitely been a special experience, but it's been really interesting for me becausecoming from making short attention span beats that are changing a lot and there's just a
lot of abstract kind of rhythms going on in the beats that I like to make.
It's been an interesting discipline training to make 11 minute tracks with no beats andbuilding a story within that because my brain wants to go straight to the beat side of
(30:30):
things, but.
been really just honing that in, trying to find the ways to tell a story and really notlet it be too overbearing.
So you can just go inside and work through everything I've ever created has come fromsitting on my yoga mat and listening to something for at least an hour with my whiteboard
(30:51):
and just writing what, okay, what is my energy for?
What am I good at?
What am I not good at?
What do I need to change in my life?
What
You know, those kind of things have led to everything that I feel proud of creating.
It all comes from these introspective listening to music by myself in a meditationexperience.
So now I'm trying to figure out how I can create something that is unique to my flavor andhelp guide people through that experience while staying true to my DJ nature and being
(31:22):
able to still throw down a set with the homies.
Cause I really think that.
I'm very motivated by like the visual of just That's the duality.
Yeah, like when I play Beats in the Trees with my friends, know, all my friends just like,they all have their own flavors too.
yeah, I'm just very motivated by the visions of playing original tunes for people and thefeeling that comes out of that and being able to collaborate with people that I look up to
(31:48):
because yeah, I mean, in the beginning it was like, all right, I just started makingmusic.
All these epic musicians are around me.
I can't just expect them to want to collaborate with me and actually put music out becauseI don't have a project to get behind and I don't want to expect them to be motivated to
put music out with me if I don't have any sort of a project to stand for.
(32:09):
So it's been really about just kind of figuring out what my sound is, working really hardon defining it, and now I'm finally starting to collab with people that I really look up
to and I'm excited.
Yeah, that's the process, making beats.
At the Nableton, I play the flute a lot.
I used to this guitar.
was noticing in the background of your shot here and I was like, what is going on there?
(32:31):
It's not just become a wall decoration, but it's just kind of broken.
We took it to a lot of workshops.
Do you find the practice of making these like sound beats like meditative in itself?
Like, are you like being guided by your intuition in the moment as you're almost designingso?
Yeah, it's a portal for sure.
(32:53):
You get in the portal and then you're in there.
It's because I'm sitting right in front of my sub and I'm listening to this withoutstopping it for sometimes an hour on end.
Same note, just like moving the same note that one sub frequency not letting it get toojarring, just like really working on moving that and dialing in the binaural beats.
(33:13):
So there's like a slight delay between the ears.
So it really helps work some things out in there.
And it's, it's
trance that it puts me in and I've been trying to make the the tunes One tune for eachchakra because the people I work with they do a lot of the chakra healing work So I've
been trying to dive into that space and the Reiki energies that they do is like it'sopened up a whole understanding for me So I'm a lot of times like okay.
(33:40):
This is the sacral chakra.
Well, I'm gonna tune this sub until I feel it
shaking my insides like right there in that energy center and then once I get it there Iwork from there and just add melodies in the same key with that and a bunch of
instruments.
Amazing.
I think I was one of not one of the few but I felt like one of the few.
(34:02):
I'm revealing my age in this moment but everyone was so excited about Andre 3000's likenew music he's coming out with new music.
And like I was excited and then I listened to it and I was like, he made this just for me.
It's everything I've ever wanted in my life.
Like I think I have probably listened to the entire album about 46 times.
Yes.
I said that out loud.
(34:23):
It's so good.
But it's so good.
So yeah, I think that that's been a really like interesting exploration as that was myfirst introduction to the worlds of different music that I listened to.
And then like my meditative practice is coming together.
So I'm.
super excited about conscious music and beats for aligning chakras or for doing those deepdives.
(34:48):
You're already kind of touching on it, which is interesting because the process ofcreation is maybe a part of this for you.
But any entertainment industry, think especially the music industry, has a lot of drain onyou as a person.
There's like a lot that goes into it.
There's a lot it takes out of you.
What sort of like self care or like strategies to
(35:10):
keep yourself going?
Have you developed throughout working?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I I think my key tool is just sitting down, closing my eyes, listening to something thatdoesn't distract me too much and just working through whatever it is I'm working on,
writing down my thoughts really helps me a lot and just evaluating the energy flow andwhat's happening there.
(35:34):
think that just like
Learning more and more to be protective of my energy and what it's good for has been bigfor me because it was always about taking whatever opportunity I could.
It was probably a level of ego and confidence for the last 10 years where I was like,yeah, I can do that.
Sure.
mean, this person's doing it.
I can figure out how to do that.
And then just doing whatever because I think I can do it.
(35:58):
That really caused me to drain and not give everything the love that it needed.
Working on seven projects at once.
And I'm sure people listening, I'm sure you guys have gone through this, like, it seemsoften that it's so easy to spread yourself so thin when you're working in the creative
space and you start to get traction because people present all these opportunities to you.
(36:19):
And so I just turned 30 and I feel that the 20s were really for me to try all these thingsand now I'm here and I know what I need to do.
And knowing that has been probably the strongest tool for self care is saying, okay, thisis I'm doing.
I'm going to say no to anything that is not related to this because I know it's what Ineed to focus on.
(36:40):
And then my energy is used wisely for what I want to use it on.
And I have energy for the rest of the day to just be and experience and just live.
So I think that for the self care tip is for sure just evaluating the energy spent, takingtime to really think about what it is, stretching, taking care of the body, developing
(37:01):
habits.
for fitness and just staying in shape, just feeling good.
Yoga a lot, just constantly getting the blood flowing.
I tried to go vegan for a while and it didn't hit for me like I really wanted to.
I was convinced that meat was a really bad thing and now I'm starting to ease my way backinto that and feeling a little bit more energized.
(37:25):
So, sorry to anyone who this hurts their feelings.
But I love that of like giving yourself permission to do what's best for you and explorethat space.
What would you tell your younger self about this industry or this work that you're doing?
And then like, I guess the follow-up would be like, well, is anything that you would tellcaregivers of young people who are like really interested in the arts or music or
(37:51):
festivals?
Just, you know, if we take us a moment to reflect on what you would tell yourself and thenwhat you would tell the youth now.
Yeah, it's a good question.
feel like it's always with telling other youth, I think it's really dependent on whatthey're up to and what they're interested in.
But I'm just kind of coming off the top here.
I think that there's so many little details that I wish I would have known that I couldshare with myself.
(38:17):
But I'm happy with what my younger self went through.
And I don't think that I would change anything that little Tyler did.
But I think that
I would tell myself to just trust in the process, have faith in the process.
Because I went through just some anxieties and a lot of worry about whether I was doingthe right thing or not.
(38:42):
I might have spent too much energy on questioning my reality because there are levels ofsaying, this is what I'm doing and being consistent.
I think that there's inconsistencies in my past that I would like to have.
not had because I've, you know, I tried to say something was going to happen in a certainmotion and then it didn't follow through.
(39:05):
And I've always wanted to be someone who is known to follow through because it's importantto trust people.
I think that, yeah, thinking through it, 20 year old me, I would tell me to focus on beingconsistent and having faith in the process because that amount of worrying about if I was
doing it right or
(39:26):
seeking approval from people that didn't actually have that much contribution to thethings I wanted to work on or things like that.
Like, it would have been helpful to just have somebody there to say, like, you can figurethis out and you don't need to please everyone.
(39:48):
That'd be a good one.
I feel like I would give myself that.
that note as well.
But also honestly, that also feels like powerful advice to give caregivers just to to letyou know, you don't have to please everyone.
Trust the process.
If you want to make something, try to make it like not to put words in your mouth.
But I did.
I was like remembering the back half of that question of like, is there anything that youwant to tell caregivers or parents if their children are like, I'm excited about the arts?
(40:15):
Why do I want to go into this?
Like, definitely not.
I mean, I would tell parents and caregivers to not
push their inhibitions on to kids, because I've seen that for sure.
And I've seen kids that will light up in a studio workshop and then when their parents arearound, they completely shut down because they have some level of standard that they feel
(40:39):
that they need to hit or something like that.
But I would definitely share that with parents into just because it's not your thing or itdoesn't work for you.
If it seems like something they're passionate about, they're going to think about it allthe time anyways.
So do everything you can to empower that to happen because nowadays you can actually makea living putting mustard on your toes or making clothes.
(41:05):
Like literally you could make a living making clothes for cats.
just recently discovered this.
Laura could be a thing for you if you decide to get into another thing.
my God.
You could make Alice sweater.
You could make Al something that stops him from annoying me at 6.30 in the morning.
That cat catching sweater.
(41:26):
But like, I think you're right.
the world is so open and there are so many opportunities to do what you're passionateabout, especially when you find people who are able to support you emotionally,
creatively, structurally, financially, however that works out.
(41:47):
But yeah, mustard on toast.
Sure, maybe not the best reference, but I'm sure that I thought you were going to saytoast, but like it it works.
I was like, you can't like, yeah, I guess you could put mustard on toast.
to sort of close out the the thoughts for today, we would love to hear about what mediayou're consuming right now that is exciting or inspiring to you.
(42:09):
Like what's what are you thinking about these days?
What are you watching, listening to, reading?
I've been listening just to a lot of different ecstatic dance mixes and diving intounderstanding that community and that style of presenting musical journeys as far as what
I've been listening to a lot lately.
(42:30):
Just trying to understand the best way to create a musical journey.
That's opened up a lot for me.
Duncan Trussell always gets me.
His podcast is amazing.
I really love listening to him and Rick Rubin.
The Broken Record podcast is very inspirational and just seeing the behind the scenes forhearing the behind the scenes on what people's song processes are like.
(42:53):
Song Exploder, another really good one.
Yeah, those are my go-to podcasts.
We recently our TV broke, so we've been trying to get in the habit of watching less TV anddoing more creative consumption type things in the evening.
(43:13):
Haven't been super deep in the Netflix lately.
I think it's probably for the best.
Relatable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Trying to create more than I consume, right?
That's what the mantra has been.
I love that.
I have a quick pickup question.
I don't think we defined what a music producer does.
Sure.
Do you want to tell us what, in your definition, a music producer does?
(43:38):
Sure, yeah, it depends on the setting and their intention really, but I think they're justthe shepherds of the creative energy.
They funnel creative, they capture creative energy and are the funnel from taking creativeenergy and converting it into a timestamp that you can experience forever.
That's it, that's it right there.
(43:59):
produce, you take the energy in the room around you or whatever devices you have and youcapture it in whatever way feels
write for you in that moment and convert it into something that is tangible and can beenjoyed for whatever intention you put into it for eternity.
It's kind of a big deal.
(44:21):
It's an important deal.
That's wild.
When you put it like that, it's the stakes go get high immediately.
I had the moment of like, we should probably define this.
My brother's a musician and he just worked with a producer that like changed his life.
So I've had this conversation a lot, but I was trying to think of like other audiencemembers.
absolutely.
No, but when you put it that way, like, yeah, eternity.
(44:43):
Incredible.
Because you're right.
Amazing.
Well, Tyler, do you have any like parting or close out thoughts that you'd like to sharewith us?
Yeah.
The producer question is a big segue here, too, because that's what the instrument gardenis all about.
And that's what the culmination of what we do here is like it started with
(45:03):
during festivals, starting the label, being with all these musicians.
And then we're all together all the time, we're working on all these festivals.
We started putting studios in the campgrounds of festivals.
So now we're music producers capturing the creative energy of the space and making analbum out of the noises of the festival, only using the sounds in the space.
Then we started doing that in the classroom.
(45:24):
Now we're making beats out of pencils and staplers and chalkboards and kids making sillynoises.
We're
transmuting that energy into a song and that is called the instrument garden.
It's a workshop where we go through the journey of beats, melodies, vocals.
We say, okay, come up here beat box, get us going.
All right, we got a beat.
(45:45):
Let's, what's this trash can sound like?
let's make a kick out of the trash can.
Okay, everybody clap.
Boom, we got a snare.
All right, we got a kick and a snare and a beat box.
We got a rhythm started now.
Let's add some shakers.
Okay, we one at a time, two at a time, we bring people up into the space and we bringproducers into places where there is not currently a studio and we turn it into a studio
(46:08):
and we invite the people to go through that process of creating a song from start tofinish.
Beats, melodies, vocals, no matter the experience level.
We are there to shepherd that experience.
We have a producer who steers the actual capturing and then we have
the empowermentarians who help invite people up, empower them to do something, whetherthey've tried it or not.
(46:30):
you've never played a guitar before?
Just hold it and make a sound.
And then watch how this producer turns it into something amazing right here in front ofus.
wow, making music isn't that complex.
And wow, maybe I could do this.
That's the whole thing that we are pushing.
And that's what we stand for.
The workshop beats, melodies, vocals.
guided experience, and then the installation, also where we just set up the studio at anevent.
(46:55):
People can come in and hang out, and all of it is a vessel for inspiring people to go outand create their own music.
And maybe just a few people that go through that experience decide that that's what theywant to pursue, and we have the opportunities for them to pursue that if they want to.
Amazing.
And where can people find out more?
Yeah, Board and Fighter's website, the Instagram has been getting some traction lately,and that's where we live mostly.
(47:17):
The workshops.
Coming up in Colorado, Detroit and California are all going to be on the calendar on thewebsite and available for people to check out on Instagram.
So board and fighters foundation on Instagram, board and fighters.org is the website andcheck it out and let's make some beats.
(47:37):
Let's make some beats.
I got to come all the way through your website a couple of months ago and it wasabsolutely incredible that I've never been more drawn to.
a work title than Empowerment Fairy.
was like, I want that.
I want to be that.
So if you're ever in a volunteer moment.
Yeah, you have to come to a workshop.
We got to do a workshop with your community for sure.
(47:59):
Thank you, Tyler.
Living in the Arts is hosted by Laura Scales with original music and editing by JasonDuran.
It is produced and co-hosted by Claire Haupe and our podcast coordinator is Colin Shai.
For more information about anything our guest mentioned, be sure to check out the shownotes.
Living in the Arts is made possible by listeners like you.
Don't forget to follow, rate, review, or share an episode that excites you.
(48:21):
To learn more and support Living in the Arts, please visit livingartsdetroit.org.
Thank you so much for joining us and so much for listening.
Hello, I'm Laura Scales, a dedicated arts facilitator, career counselor, and the CEO ofLiving Arts Detroit.
Join us as we chat with both experienced and emerging artistic professionals who haveignited their creativity and shaped their careers to thrive while living in the arts.
Today's interview is with Tyler Manning.
He's a musician, producer, and co-founder of the Boredom Fighters Youth Music and EventsOrganization.
(00:24):
We're going to learn about music in schools, the city chapter approach to a nonprofit,
and figuring out how to get your talented pals paid.
One takeaway I can offer you already, create more than you consume.
For more, stay tuned.
Hello and welcome to the Living in the Arts podcast.
(00:44):
I'm so excited to be here with my brand new co-host, Claire Howe.
That's me, hello.
Today we are interviewing Tyler from Boredom Fighters and we're so excited to get thisconversation started today.
Tyler, do you want to start us off with a brief introduction?
Yeah, hey, I'm Tyler Manning.
I am one of the co-founders of Boredom Fighters and I have a music project called GardenBoy and I've been living in the arts for
(01:10):
I sell it 10 years now.
Amazing.
So one of the things that I love to do in this podcast is start us off with a good thingand a bad thing.
That's how we do our meetings at Living Arts.
And throughout my career, there's only one rule is that you can have two good things, butyou can't have two bad things.
(01:30):
So, you know, it's very strict here.
I could kick us off with an example if it's helpful.
My first good thing is that I am working on a new scarf pattern and I'm really excitedabout crocheting it.
I won't lie, it's crazy colors and they're coming together in a way that looks like theKugis sweaters my father wore back in the day.
(01:54):
Wild.
I know.
Wild indeed.
We're taking it all the way back because he was rocking all those sweaters.
And then my other good thing is that I'm excited that Claire's joining us for the podcastco-hosting.
So yeah, Claire, do you wanna?
Yeah, my good thing this week is, so an old friend of mine from high school has recentlymoved to the city of Chicago.
(02:19):
So I got to spend some time with her this week and it's been really fresh to get toreconnect with someone who doesn't know any stories about when I've actually been an
adult, but does know all the stories about when I was a chaotic teen writing fan fiction.
that's the good.
The bad is my cat has decided he should be fed at 630 and not 730.
(02:40):
So it's been a rough week, but we're working on fixing his sense of time again.
So yeah.
Tyler.
Did that cat a watch?
Yeah, right?
It's like, my god, Al, please.
It's too early.
Yeah, cool.
OK, good thing.
Good thing I just finished a sound healing album, and I'm really excited about it.
(03:03):
playing it out, doing some things with that, and it's coming together.
Bad thing?
You know, I had a conversation yesterday actually with someone in the school system, andI've confirmed that Detroit is not equipped in the music department, in schools, all
throughout the district.
I thought it would be a little bit more ahead, but there's a lot of people struggling inthe school system, so bad thing, really bad thing.
(03:29):
Yeah.
That is a bad thing that took us two years and a really good grant to fix.
So I'm happy to connect offline and give you that list of funding sources we found.
Yeah, that was something lost on us as well.
So tell us about how you got into the arts and how your path has like led you to where youare now.
(03:51):
How to get started.
Yeah, guess I started with throwing parties.
I mean, I grew up in school being a part of
Trying to be part of social gatherings is best of my ability.
was something that I spent a lot of my time in, even in school, was just gathering peopletogether and it evolved to throwing these different parties, needing music at the parties,
(04:13):
starting to DJ.
A friend of mine showed me music production and I was just so excited about it when hefirst showed me it that I was very intimidated by it.
I was like, that sounds like a lot of thinking and
clicking, but I'll play the music that you make for other people." And so we had a littleduo project going where he was making music, I was DJing it, and we were throwing these
(04:37):
parties with that.
It was in a small town, so there wasn't a lot of music industry that I was exposed to inthat space.
I was just kind of existing in the party space.
And we tried to take it into the venue space, and it felt like there was a lot missingfrom what I would need to learn how to do that right.
Eventually it led to taking an internship at a festival in Colorado, moving out toColorado for a while to work for some other festival folks.
(05:04):
And that kind of launched the whole journey of, wow, this is way deeper than I thought itwas and we could go party outside.
And then it turned into, wow, like it's not just a party.
There's like intention here and people working on massive projects and change in the worldby just.
getting together, using the party as a vehicle that convince people to get together and dosomething.
(05:28):
And then when they're all together sharing their ideas and thoughts, it turned into a lot.
And that was a rise festival was the first one that I worked for out in Colorado.
That's so sick.
Yeah.
And that kind of lifted it off, but I'll try not to tangent on the whole story.
I mean, I'm probably going to ask you a question about that in just a little bit, but I,but we sort of have this, this one, like,
(05:50):
pillar question of when did you know you were in this industry for the long haul?
Like, was there a moment that you were like, I'm going to be around music for the rest ofmy life?
Yeah, yeah, Paul Bass, he's one of the producers of Arise Festival.
He told me if there's any advice I can give you on the music industry is to get out.
(06:11):
Yeah, that sounds similar to advice I've given about theater.
Yeah.
Well, it was good.
paused for a long period of time and I just really let that soak in.
And he said, now, if I can convince you with just my words right now to get out because ofwhat I said here, like, you're not meant for this.
(06:32):
And I had no doubt that he was not, he was not convinced of me in that moment to get out.
And so that told me like, okay, you're right.
Like this guy who's been doing this for 20, 30 years.
is not recommending that I do this and I still feel called to do it.
So here we go.
Let's see what we can figure out.
So you're talking about this festival and as someone who like, I don't know a lot aboutfestivals.
(06:55):
People have asked me about festivals because I do a lot of event management stuff.
And I feel like just telling someone that you've been involved running like a productioncompany, different record label stuff, a nonprofit, it's like, and festivals is sort of
like a.
a very formidable stack of different types of organizations.
And so I'm curious, I wanna hear you talk about discovering like how and what is right foryou in terms of like short term and long term orgs that you're involved with.
(07:27):
Like it feels like you've done so many different types of things under the umbrella of themusic industry.
How did you decide and what worked and what didn't?
Yeah, good question.
I feel like it's just kind of uncovered itself.
I've definitely had some moments where I've set goals and thought about it.
Every day kind of reevaluate what I'm spending my energy on, which isn't always thehealthiest because I want to be consistent.
(07:53):
I think I've just constantly been that way as long as I can remember just constantlyevaluating what I'm spending my energy on.
And it seems like no matter what I do, I just cannot help but feel called to findsolutions to
connect the music industry to the schools and the kids that don't have it.
Maybe it has to do with growing up not having a lot, but I just feel like no matter what,as soon as I stop thinking about something on purpose, my brain just automatically
(08:22):
defaults to building out the infrastructure for that to work.
It took a lot of navigating different things.
would say literally this month was
The first time I would say in ever my time working in the space that I've been adamantabout saying no to anything but this one thing that I want to work on.
(08:44):
And it was just like, opportunity, let's see what happens.
Opportunity.
let's see.
the collective consciousness thinks we should do this thing.
Well, let's try it and see what happens.
And I just always really love starting fires and starting things, building things andseeing other people use them.
(09:04):
I've always felt like my friend here is so talented at this thing.
Like if only somebody could figure out a way to pay them to do this thing that they do andthey didn't have to do this other thing that they don't like to do.
So all these ideas, all these businesses have just been platforms to do that, to say,you're really good at making art.
Like what if we had you paint at this event?
(09:26):
Like, you're really good at calling a bunch of people that don't want to hear you talk.
Do you want to start an agency?
You know, it's like,
I feel like always has been circulated around that, but the nonprofit space really startedto expose itself to me after going into a school with, we were invited to go to a school
to talk about the music industry and we had already been doing a lot with the installationand the different record label stuff.
(09:53):
So we made music with kids in a classroom and it was that, that day was, okay, this iswhat I need to spend my energy on.
That really opened up a door of possibility.
And after that day, I started every day working in the industry.
just felt more and more like, maybe this isn't for me.
(10:13):
And working with kids is much more up my alley.
just maybe am a kid.
I don't know why, but the working with kids and working with the nonprofit space and justfamily friendly events has been the, the evolution out of the hedonistic.
party lifestyle that started it all.
(10:38):
I feel like there are a few stronger communities than festival, like being in the momentwith the music and with the art and, you know, the makers spaces that are happening.
Yeah, there's just so many roles.
There's so many roles and I love that you're offering so many opportunities for people toget involved.
(10:59):
I think that's incredible of like everyone has a gift.
Everyone has something to contribute.
Everyone is invited.
Having multiple locations.
So you have many different states that you are operating of.
Can you talk about the process of getting boredom fighters on its feet and then kind ofthe spread across the country and how those cities were chosen?
(11:20):
To reference
the multi-city thing.
I really got a shout out Facebook.
It might be falling off nowadays, like it has always felt like if we needed something, wecould just post a status and see who is interested in being part of that idea and then
letting the opportunities unfold.
(11:41):
It's kind of like being able to ask the collective consciousness, like, Hey, what's, whatdo you guys think of this?
You know, maybe it's a bit of an echo chamber music industry echo chamber that we'vecreated in.
our timeline, during the festival, we were in Colorado throwing a festival in Michiganwhen it started.
And it was like, I'm from the Michigan, Indiana area.
(12:03):
So I had some friends there and my whole intention in Colorado was to learn how to do thestuff that is so epic there and bring it back home.
So I made these friends in Colorado and then
I'm like, all right guys, so now we got this thing together, we're going to Michigan.
And they're all like, okay, great, let's get on the bus.
And so we're posting statuses and we're, know, hey, anyone have a pickup truck and 500pounds of pallets, know, whatever these random requests are.
(12:34):
And so it was just always about making posts, finding other people in the community thatwe're already partially attached to and just building from that.
I mean, every department of the festival was filled by reaching out to the community andsaying, Hey, what, what do you want to do?
How do you want to use this platform?
And then boredom fighters expanded in the same way.
(12:56):
You know, people reach out and say, Hey, I want to do something here in my town.
What can I do?
And we've really been working to build out this chapter model.
It seems like activist communities and other nonprofit communities use this kind of modelwhere
They build up a chapter and people can just plug into the infrastructure and use it.
So we spent the last few years just really trying to understand how that can work and howwe can say, well, here's how we do it.
(13:23):
Now you take this infrastructure, ask us for help and we'll figure it out as we go.
So it started in Colorado.
We were doing a lot of work just around the front range, around the Denver area, theBoulder area.
And we put out a post.
Facebook, hey, we're looking for somebody to do work in Fort Collins because we knowthere's a grant in Fort Collins and if we do the work in Fort Collins, we can get that
(13:47):
grant and we just need to activate in that area.
And so we found Mike.
Mike McTernan.
He's an absolute superstar with running a nonprofit and just being involved with youtheducation.
So yeah, crazy.
He applied to do this thing and
We had a little bit of a budget that we could invest and it was basically like, all right,we're going to invest in this guy for a year and see what happens.
(14:12):
And we put most of our resources into investing in him while all of us are volunteering tobuild the rest of the organization and do the work on the ground floor in Denver and
Boulder.
And after one year, his impact was double what we were already doing.
It was just a very obvious sign that that kind of model can work.
(14:32):
but we still were like, but now we're out of money because we just spent it all investingin this guy.
His impact went up and that was great.
But now what do we got to do to figure this out?
So we've worked on some more grants.
finally got the grant from Bohemian Foundation for Fort Collins chapter now, which isamazing.
And that's going to support Mike through this year.
It was about two years of work to get to the point where now Mike can get paid a salary torun everything.
(14:57):
Working with him.
It's just a long journey, you know, it's crazy.
I'm sure you guys have gone through it too.
Just like coming from scarcity mindset where we're just like, same thing with thefestivals.
Okay.
We don't have the budget that this actually needs, but we feel very called to do this.
So we're going to do it and just keep doing it until it works itself out.
(15:18):
My friends and especially my partners at board and fighters have tried to reel me backfrom doing the thing before we have the funding.
Yeah.
That's Claire and I.
I'm like, wait, I like this too.
Yeah.
I mean, you have an idea.
It's like, we can do it.
That's the realization here lately.
(15:39):
And especially now that I'm working just deeper in the gig economy with my music projectand freelancing for other festivals, like, just because you can do it doesn't always mean
you should because sometimes you might be
exhausting somebody's resources.
And I think what I've learned really from that is just like, making sure everybody feelsthe energy exchange is good for them, and that it's good for what we're working on and not
(16:08):
just expecting everybody to do all these things all the time.
So this multi city operation thing is really, it's helped me dial back into saying like,okay, this is the intention.
Here's who's down to help.
Now let's really just establish
what everyone wants to do for sure, get them to commit to it and say, this is what I cando.
(16:29):
And then we have a plan, we pull it off and then we add to it later.
Don't just add everything out the gate and expect everybody to figure it out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So here we are.
I'm here in Michigan and Detroit feels like it's really where another chapter needs to be.
I feel really called to be here.
Colorado is taken care of.
(16:50):
mean, they put 4,000 kids in the studio without me last year.
Just, it's insane.
That's so good.
That's so cool.
It also feels so rewarding when it's like they did it and I had nothing to do.
I, that's like a testament to the process and to the organization where it's like, yeah,that's a huge amount of students and that would be incredible anywhere.
(17:15):
And I think that that's just.
I lost my train of thought halfway through because I got excited.
Yeah, well, I'm going to jump in.
Kind of dovetailing on that, I was reading the information that you sent us ahead of timeand something that meant a lot to me and I'm sure means a lot to these kids, but also just
means a lot to many artists in the world is this idea of you're very transparent aboutyour inspiration around mental health and all these things and like...
(17:39):
I think you wrote, was like something along the lines of if I was in an accident, then atleast I wouldn't have to like X, Y or Z as part of the sort of like impetus for making
these orgs and doing these things.
I guess I don't have a great formed question yet, but I think like as much as like thatthought is common, is way too common of like, well, know, if I was hit by a bus today, I
(18:04):
wouldn't have to go to my job or something.
And like,
I'm curious to hear you talk about the ways that recognizing that thought process andgetting to do the things that you're doing now and sort of like how those things connect
or if that thought process has changed or in what ways, what ways sort of doing thesethings has helped mental health wise.
Yeah, that really has been the fuel.
(18:28):
Even how scary it is to just be out of money and working on something that might not bemaking me money.
I come from a town where a lot of people work in a factory or something where it's justeverybody is obsessed with getting as much overtime as they can in the factory and they
don't like who they're working for or they don't even like what they're doing.
(18:52):
And I think that it makes a lot of people angry.
It makes a lot of people depressed and they, they wake up.
The first thing they think is I'm going to go do this thing that I really don't want todo.
And I don't see myself changing that for the next 40 years.
And then they go to work, they get home, they're exhausted, they're angry, they're sad,they have no energy for their family.
(19:18):
And then they do that.
And that's the box that they feel like they need to be in.
I think the school system has a lot to do with creating that mindset.
And it's not our teacher's fault, but I just think that is how the education system hasbeen built is like you get up at this time.
You go work for somebody, you get off, and then you figure it out.
I was waking up going to work in a factory and feeling like, if I got an accident rightnow, at least I wouldn't have to be at work.
(19:46):
That exact thought.
And when I realized I was having that thought, it dawned on me that, wow, all these otherpeople I work with probably feel this way too.
And maybe that's why half the town is like...
on drugs, disassociating, or just angry.
You go to the gas station and you try to start a conversation with someone and they justdon't want anything to do with you.
They're just not in that mode, you know?
(20:08):
And that made me very motivated to create creative opportunities and just figure out howto solve this.
It was like, okay, if we could put on events where people could come and be creative andthey could actually get paid, my thought on the whole festival thing and solving that
problem is like,
It's kind of like when you and all your homies throw down on a pizza.
(20:29):
It's like, okay, this is what we're going to get.
You know, like with a festival, it's like you have 2000 people say, all right, we'll allpay $50 to experience this art.
And you give that to all the artists who are going to create the art for us to be a partof and everybody's happy.
And it seemed like a model that can totally work, especially if you have a large communitythat they don't have something like that.
(20:52):
It's not like a very small town I come from.
It's just on the precipice of rural.
It's the RV factory capital of the United States.
So it's just factories and farms and not a lot in between, you know?
And so that's what I gathered.
I will say now going back home, I have a lot of respect for the music industry that isgrowing there and there are people doing a lot of good work there.
(21:15):
Maybe they were always doing it and I didn't see them in that community I grew up in justkind of felt like it was in that box.
But I think overall that
that thought of like, people hate what they're getting up and spending their energy on.
If I can put my energy towards creating a platform for people to not do that, I'll feelgood at the end of the day that I know that my time spent on this planet helped a couple
(21:38):
of people wake up and just feel excited to do what it is that they're going to do today.
That's so incredibly inspiring.
Yeah.
School trains us to work.
Yeah.
There is a deep capitalist, anti-capitalist, I should say, rant to go on here.
And I'm not going to let us go too far down it, but at some point, we're just going tomake the anti-capitalist episode of Living in the Arts that's like, the whole thing is set
(22:02):
up to make you have to go to work every day.
And it's not, it doesn't have to be like that.
AKA the thing I try to avoid every podcast where I'm like, and if we didn't live in latestage capitalism, then we could, like so.
Ideally, we can work on it in a micro.
Capitalism as a whole, on a macro level, I will say I have no clue how to defeat that orwork around it, but I think working on it in the community and just skill sharing and
(22:28):
finding a way to share resources amongst the people that are in our space is like, we canat least create that bubble.
Although it is so scary often to leave the box because the factory job thing is like.
Well, they know they're going to get their benefits.
They know their insurance paid.
A lot of these people have kids already.
have things that they need to take care of.
(22:48):
So am I going to go and try to build myself as an artist and maybe it take me four yearsto be able to make a living wage or can I just go sweat for these people I don't like and
then at least my bills are paid.
You know, it's, scary to take that jump for sure.
I think it's absolutely terrifying in a way that like,
(23:09):
I forgot who said it, but someone said like just making that choice.
Like that choice is what defines so many things that come out in the arts just in general,just like the, need to make art and I choose to live my life making art.
So, but I think you're right about the micro sense and really community being the way thatwe can defeat these systems that are put in place.
(23:37):
Community care is essential and it's not.
Community care is really important.
Speaking of making art though, you have mentioned a couple times, you're also a musician,you also make your own art, you are not just facilitating it in others.
We would love to hear about your artistic process.
How do you go about making stuff?
It's crazy because I DJed for 10 years and I was managing artists.
(24:03):
I almost started making music myself 10 years ago.
I was a little bit thrown off by how confusing it can be at the time.
And so I dabbled in making my own music, but I started meeting all these really talentedcreators and deciding that instead of trying to spend all my energy getting my creativity,
(24:25):
getting my art flow to the point where theirs is, like they're already there, I could justhelp them and we can all be around each other.
So through that,
throwing the events, starting the agency, managing artists, routing tours, all that work.
I was around all these really incredible producers, living with them.
(24:46):
Just being around all these wonderful musicians all the time, it got to the point where Iknew how to make music just by being around it all the time.
But I still didn't really dive into it.
I was still DJing.
This was like 2012 through 2018.
I'm DJing, I'm hanging out with all these people who make awesome music and that becomesmy friend group.
(25:11):
I'm pretty much only hanging out with producers and musicians.
And then we go into the classroom, we teach kids about the music industry, we make a songwith these kids.
I still am not making music at this point.
And we started teaching kids how to make music and I was facilitating this.
Hey kids, like, you know, here's how we make music.
(25:31):
And I still don't make music.
had a kid actually walk up to me in a class and say, where can I go listen to your music?
And I was like, I actually don't have any music anywhere.
I've never created my own song, but I've helped all these people create songs.
And so I realized in that moment, like, I guess the sentiment I want to share is that foreight years or so, it felt like selfish for me to work on my own stuff because all these
(25:58):
people around me.
They knew how to make great music, but they didn't know a lot about their own events orbusiness.
So I was just like, well, I know how to do that.
You know how to do that?
We worked together.
It felt like if I was to go work on my own stuff, I was doing them a disservice.
But the whole time, I'm asking artists to release music in this way.
I'm asking artists to do all these things, and I don't know what it's like, really.
(26:21):
I didn't even realize at the time, I didn't know what it was like.
I'm confident.
I'm just like, yeah, I probably have a grasp on what it's like to be you.
So I'm going to help you.
live your life.
And I realized in the last few years, I need to make music if I want to know what it'slike to be an artist and convince other people to be an artist.
Because that's really what this is about.
It's like, hey, quit your job and make music because you want to and it feels right.
(26:45):
If that's what you want to do, you can do that.
But by the way, I don't actually know what that's like.
So it really, yeah, it was really like
It finally dawned on me that it would be very beneficial for me to understand the artist'smentality in the process of creating and releasing music and playing shows, playing a
performance of music that you made.
(27:06):
So 2018, 2019, I started dabbling a little deeper and just Ableton playing with somestuff.
I've always played guitar and really liked playing instruments and just felt musical.
And then 2020.
when COVID happened, I took my first classes online for making music and the great reset,you know, I feel like I hear this story so much, but when COVID happened, I finally
(27:30):
started making something.
And it's like, that was really where it took place.
So I started hanging out with the people in my circle, creating music, and just constantlyworking on things and figuring out how I was rapping a lot, playing a lot of instruments,
producing beats, and just kind of finding out where I wanted to land in that space.
Cause I come from the dubstep community, the high energy bass music space.
(27:54):
It started in the metal scene growing up, but it eventually led to go into dubstep showsand Skrillex and Rusco and that whole world kind of opened up a whole understanding of
what's possible for me.
So coming from that space, I felt like there was kind of the, the hole I wanted to fill inthat space was the, the meditative experience within the bass space.
(28:17):
Cause it's always
Not always, but a lot of what I experienced was aggressive.
And I wanted to experience the bass and the rumbling of the subwoofers and the highquality sound system experience.
But I wanted to find a way to carve out a calm space within that that feels grounded.
And I've always been a big fan of yoga and meditation.
(28:39):
So I've been trying to just figure out where my sound lands in the emotional introspectivemeditative.
Beats and non-beats sound healing and ambient stuff.
So lately it's been a lot of just freeform melodies over so fed you frequencies and subfrequencies that last a long time.
(29:01):
And it kind of opens up one big movement where you just are in this ethereal space and themelodies are frolicking without too much rhythm holding it together.
It's just very ambient.
I'm about to go lay on my floor and listen to Garden Boy is what's about to happen.
Like 110%.
(29:21):
I was like, this is exactly, but I mean, like that's incredible that that's where that'swhere your creativity and exploration took you.
No, yeah, don't get me wrong.
I still really love my short attention span beats and making beats is just something thatfeels like very right for me and captivating that kind of energy.
But it's been a very
(29:42):
This past six months or so, I've been really honing in on the sound healing and workingwith this really awesome sound healing collective out of Benton Harbor called Sound
Medicine.
And they have a bunch of these crazy gongs and all the bowls and they have bowls that arelike funnels and they shoot the healing energies at you while you're laying on the ground
(30:02):
getting this base massage.
It's definitely been a special experience, but it's been really interesting for me becausecoming from making short attention span beats that are changing a lot and there's just a
lot of abstract kind of rhythms going on in the beats that I like to make.
It's been an interesting discipline training to make 11 minute tracks with no beats andbuilding a story within that because my brain wants to go straight to the beat side of
(30:30):
things, but.
been really just honing that in, trying to find the ways to tell a story and really notlet it be too overbearing.
So you can just go inside and work through everything I've ever created has come fromsitting on my yoga mat and listening to something for at least an hour with my whiteboard
(30:51):
and just writing what, okay, what is my energy for?
What am I good at?
What am I not good at?
What do I need to change in my life?
What
You know, those kind of things have led to everything that I feel proud of creating.
It all comes from these introspective listening to music by myself in a meditationexperience.
So now I'm trying to figure out how I can create something that is unique to my flavor andhelp guide people through that experience while staying true to my DJ nature and being
(31:22):
able to still throw down a set with the homies.
Cause I really think that.
I'm very motivated by like the visual of just That's the duality.
Yeah, like when I play Beats in the Trees with my friends, know, all my friends just like,they all have their own flavors too.
yeah, I'm just very motivated by the visions of playing original tunes for people and thefeeling that comes out of that and being able to collaborate with people that I look up to
(31:48):
because yeah, I mean, in the beginning it was like, all right, I just started makingmusic.
All these epic musicians are around me.
I can't just expect them to want to collaborate with me and actually put music out becauseI don't have a project to get behind and I don't want to expect them to be motivated to
put music out with me if I don't have any sort of a project to stand for.
(32:09):
So it's been really about just kind of figuring out what my sound is, working really hardon defining it, and now I'm finally starting to collab with people that I really look up
to and I'm excited.
Yeah, that's the process, making beats.
At the Nableton, I play the flute a lot.
I used to this guitar.
was noticing in the background of your shot here and I was like, what is going on there?
(32:31):
It's not just become a wall decoration, but it's just kind of broken.
We took it to a lot of workshops.
Do you find the practice of making these like sound beats like meditative in itself?
Like, are you like being guided by your intuition in the moment as you're almost designingso?
Yeah, it's a portal for sure.
(32:53):
You get in the portal and then you're in there.
It's because I'm sitting right in front of my sub and I'm listening to this withoutstopping it for sometimes an hour on end.
Same note, just like moving the same note that one sub frequency not letting it get toojarring, just like really working on moving that and dialing in the binaural beats.
(33:13):
So there's like a slight delay between the ears.
So it really helps work some things out in there.
And it's, it's
trance that it puts me in and I've been trying to make the the tunes One tune for eachchakra because the people I work with they do a lot of the chakra healing work So I've
been trying to dive into that space and the Reiki energies that they do is like it'sopened up a whole understanding for me So I'm a lot of times like okay.
(33:40):
This is the sacral chakra.
Well, I'm gonna tune this sub until I feel it
shaking my insides like right there in that energy center and then once I get it there Iwork from there and just add melodies in the same key with that and a bunch of
instruments.
Amazing.
I think I was one of not one of the few but I felt like one of the few.
(34:02):
I'm revealing my age in this moment but everyone was so excited about Andre 3000's likenew music he's coming out with new music.
And like I was excited and then I listened to it and I was like, he made this just for me.
It's everything I've ever wanted in my life.
Like I think I have probably listened to the entire album about 46 times.
Yes.
I said that out loud.
(34:23):
It's so good.
But it's so good.
So yeah, I think that that's been a really like interesting exploration as that was myfirst introduction to the worlds of different music that I listened to.
And then like my meditative practice is coming together.
So I'm.
super excited about conscious music and beats for aligning chakras or for doing those deepdives.
(34:48):
You're already kind of touching on it, which is interesting because the process ofcreation is maybe a part of this for you.
But any entertainment industry, think especially the music industry, has a lot of drain onyou as a person.
There's like a lot that goes into it.
There's a lot it takes out of you.
What sort of like self care or like strategies to
(35:10):
keep yourself going?
Have you developed throughout working?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I I think my key tool is just sitting down, closing my eyes, listening to something thatdoesn't distract me too much and just working through whatever it is I'm working on,
writing down my thoughts really helps me a lot and just evaluating the energy flow andwhat's happening there.
(35:34):
think that just like
Learning more and more to be protective of my energy and what it's good for has been bigfor me because it was always about taking whatever opportunity I could.
It was probably a level of ego and confidence for the last 10 years where I was like,yeah, I can do that.
Sure.
mean, this person's doing it.
I can figure out how to do that.
And then just doing whatever because I think I can do it.
(35:58):
That really caused me to drain and not give everything the love that it needed.
Working on seven projects at once.
And I'm sure people listening, I'm sure you guys have gone through this, like, it seemsoften that it's so easy to spread yourself so thin when you're working in the creative
space and you start to get traction because people present all these opportunities to you.
(36:19):
And so I just turned 30 and I feel that the 20s were really for me to try all these thingsand now I'm here and I know what I need to do.
And knowing that has been probably the strongest tool for self care is saying, okay, thisis I'm doing.
I'm going to say no to anything that is not related to this because I know it's what Ineed to focus on.
(36:40):
And then my energy is used wisely for what I want to use it on.
And I have energy for the rest of the day to just be and experience and just live.
So I think that for the self care tip is for sure just evaluating the energy spent, takingtime to really think about what it is, stretching, taking care of the body, developing
(37:01):
habits.
for fitness and just staying in shape, just feeling good.
Yoga a lot, just constantly getting the blood flowing.
I tried to go vegan for a while and it didn't hit for me like I really wanted to.
I was convinced that meat was a really bad thing and now I'm starting to ease my way backinto that and feeling a little bit more energized.
(37:25):
So, sorry to anyone who this hurts their feelings.
But I love that of like giving yourself permission to do what's best for you and explorethat space.
What would you tell your younger self about this industry or this work that you're doing?
And then like, I guess the follow-up would be like, well, is anything that you would tellcaregivers of young people who are like really interested in the arts or music or
(37:51):
festivals?
Just, you know, if we take us a moment to reflect on what you would tell yourself and thenwhat you would tell the youth now.
Yeah, it's a good question.
feel like it's always with telling other youth, I think it's really dependent on whatthey're up to and what they're interested in.
But I'm just kind of coming off the top here.
I think that there's so many little details that I wish I would have known that I couldshare with myself.
(38:17):
But I'm happy with what my younger self went through.
And I don't think that I would change anything that little Tyler did.
But I think that
I would tell myself to just trust in the process, have faith in the process.
Because I went through just some anxieties and a lot of worry about whether I was doingthe right thing or not.
(38:42):
I might have spent too much energy on questioning my reality because there are levels ofsaying, this is what I'm doing and being consistent.
I think that there's inconsistencies in my past that I would like to have.
not had because I've, you know, I tried to say something was going to happen in a certainmotion and then it didn't follow through.
(39:05):
And I've always wanted to be someone who is known to follow through because it's importantto trust people.
I think that, yeah, thinking through it, 20 year old me, I would tell me to focus on beingconsistent and having faith in the process because that amount of worrying about if I was
doing it right or
(39:26):
seeking approval from people that didn't actually have that much contribution to thethings I wanted to work on or things like that.
Like, it would have been helpful to just have somebody there to say, like, you can figurethis out and you don't need to please everyone.
(39:48):
That'd be a good one.
I feel like I would give myself that.
that note as well.
But also honestly, that also feels like powerful advice to give caregivers just to to letyou know, you don't have to please everyone.
Trust the process.
If you want to make something, try to make it like not to put words in your mouth.
But I did.
I was like remembering the back half of that question of like, is there anything that youwant to tell caregivers or parents if their children are like, I'm excited about the arts?
(40:15):
Why do I want to go into this?
Like, definitely not.
I mean, I would tell parents and caregivers to not
push their inhibitions on to kids, because I've seen that for sure.
And I've seen kids that will light up in a studio workshop and then when their parents arearound, they completely shut down because they have some level of standard that they feel
(40:39):
that they need to hit or something like that.
But I would definitely share that with parents into just because it's not your thing or itdoesn't work for you.
If it seems like something they're passionate about, they're going to think about it allthe time anyways.
So do everything you can to empower that to happen because nowadays you can actually makea living putting mustard on your toes or making clothes.
(41:05):
Like literally you could make a living making clothes for cats.
just recently discovered this.
Laura could be a thing for you if you decide to get into another thing.
my God.
You could make Alice sweater.
You could make Al something that stops him from annoying me at 6.30 in the morning.
That cat catching sweater.
(41:26):
But like, I think you're right.
the world is so open and there are so many opportunities to do what you're passionateabout, especially when you find people who are able to support you emotionally,
creatively, structurally, financially, however that works out.
(41:47):
But yeah, mustard on toast.
Sure, maybe not the best reference, but I'm sure that I thought you were going to saytoast, but like it it works.
I was like, you can't like, yeah, I guess you could put mustard on toast.
to sort of close out the the thoughts for today, we would love to hear about what mediayou're consuming right now that is exciting or inspiring to you.
(42:09):
Like what's what are you thinking about these days?
What are you watching, listening to, reading?
I've been listening just to a lot of different ecstatic dance mixes and diving intounderstanding that community and that style of presenting musical journeys as far as what
I've been listening to a lot lately.
(42:30):
Just trying to understand the best way to create a musical journey.
That's opened up a lot for me.
Duncan Trussell always gets me.
His podcast is amazing.
I really love listening to him and Rick Rubin.
The Broken Record podcast is very inspirational and just seeing the behind the scenes forhearing the behind the scenes on what people's song processes are like.
(42:53):
Song Exploder, another really good one.
Yeah, those are my go-to podcasts.
We recently our TV broke, so we've been trying to get in the habit of watching less TV anddoing more creative consumption type things in the evening.
(43:13):
Haven't been super deep in the Netflix lately.
I think it's probably for the best.
Relatable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Trying to create more than I consume, right?
That's what the mantra has been.
I love that.
I have a quick pickup question.
I don't think we defined what a music producer does.
Sure.
Do you want to tell us what, in your definition, a music producer does?
(43:38):
Sure, yeah, it depends on the setting and their intention really, but I think they're justthe shepherds of the creative energy.
They funnel creative, they capture creative energy and are the funnel from taking creativeenergy and converting it into a timestamp that you can experience forever.
That's it, that's it right there.
(43:59):
produce, you take the energy in the room around you or whatever devices you have and youcapture it in whatever way feels
write for you in that moment and convert it into something that is tangible and can beenjoyed for whatever intention you put into it for eternity.
It's kind of a big deal.
(44:21):
It's an important deal.
That's wild.
When you put it like that, it's the stakes go get high immediately.
I had the moment of like, we should probably define this.
My brother's a musician and he just worked with a producer that like changed his life.
So I've had this conversation a lot, but I was trying to think of like other audiencemembers.
absolutely.
No, but when you put it that way, like, yeah, eternity.
(44:43):
Incredible.
Because you're right.
Amazing.
Well, Tyler, do you have any like parting or close out thoughts that you'd like to sharewith us?
Yeah.
The producer question is a big segue here, too, because that's what the instrument gardenis all about.
And that's what the culmination of what we do here is like it started with
(45:03):
during festivals, starting the label, being with all these musicians.
And then we're all together all the time, we're working on all these festivals.
We started putting studios in the campgrounds of festivals.
So now we're music producers capturing the creative energy of the space and making analbum out of the noises of the festival, only using the sounds in the space.
Then we started doing that in the classroom.
(45:24):
Now we're making beats out of pencils and staplers and chalkboards and kids making sillynoises.
We're
transmuting that energy into a song and that is called the instrument garden.
It's a workshop where we go through the journey of beats, melodies, vocals.
We say, okay, come up here beat box, get us going.
All right, we got a beat.
(45:45):
Let's, what's this trash can sound like?
let's make a kick out of the trash can.
Okay, everybody clap.
Boom, we got a snare.
All right, we got a kick and a snare and a beat box.
We got a rhythm started now.
Let's add some shakers.
Okay, we one at a time, two at a time, we bring people up into the space and we bringproducers into places where there is not currently a studio and we turn it into a studio
(46:08):
and we invite the people to go through that process of creating a song from start tofinish.
Beats, melodies, vocals, no matter the experience level.
We are there to shepherd that experience.
We have a producer who steers the actual capturing and then we have
the empowermentarians who help invite people up, empower them to do something, whetherthey've tried it or not.
(46:30):
you've never played a guitar before?
Just hold it and make a sound.
And then watch how this producer turns it into something amazing right here in front ofus.
wow, making music isn't that complex.
And wow, maybe I could do this.
That's the whole thing that we are pushing.
And that's what we stand for.
The workshop beats, melodies, vocals.
guided experience, and then the installation, also where we just set up the studio at anevent.
(46:55):
People can come in and hang out, and all of it is a vessel for inspiring people to go outand create their own music.
And maybe just a few people that go through that experience decide that that's what theywant to pursue, and we have the opportunities for them to pursue that if they want to.
Amazing.
And where can people find out more?
Yeah, Board and Fighter's website, the Instagram has been getting some traction lately,and that's where we live mostly.
(47:17):
The workshops.
Coming up in Colorado, Detroit and California are all going to be on the calendar on thewebsite and available for people to check out on Instagram.
So board and fighters foundation on Instagram, board and fighters.org is the website andcheck it out and let's make some beats.
(47:37):
Let's make some beats.
I got to come all the way through your website a couple of months ago and it wasabsolutely incredible that I've never been more drawn to.
a work title than Empowerment Fairy.
was like, I want that.
I want to be that.
So if you're ever in a volunteer moment.
Yeah, you have to come to a workshop.
We got to do a workshop with your community for sure.
(47:59):
Thank you, Tyler.
Living in the Arts is hosted by Laura Scales with original music and editing by JasonDuran.
It is produced and co-hosted by Claire Haupe and our podcast coordinator is Colin Shai.
For more information about anything our guest mentioned, be sure to check out the shownotes.
Living in the Arts is made possible by listeners like you.
Don't forget to follow, rate, review, or share an episode that excites you.
(48:21):
To learn more and support Living in the Arts, please visit livingartsdetroit.org.
Thank you so much for joining us and so much for listening.
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