October 22, 2024 • 35 mins
Today’s interview is with Kanisha Williams (she/they) writer, comedian, and lovergirl. They have a demonstrated history in writers rooms, film review, newsletters, personal narrative, and artistic project facilitation. In today’s episode, we’re going to learn about the Writers’ Guild Access Support Staff Training Program, what makes a good Log Line, and the value of journaling and community. One takeaway I can offer you already? You can only live your dreams if you’re there to live them.
Also, welcome to new Co-Host, Producer Claire!
Mentioned in this Episode:
Kanisha’s Writers Guild Foundation Interview
Writers Guild Foundation Writers’ Access Support Staff Training Program
A Black Lady Sketch Show (HBO Show)
If you enjoyed this interview, find Kanisha on Instagram @kanishawilliams.
Submit your own community questions for our guests here!
Episode Transcript Available Here!
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers themselves and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Living Arts Detroit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, I'm Laura Scales, a dedicated arts facilitator, career counselor, and the CEO ofLiving Arts Detroit.
Join us as we chat with both experienced and emerging artistic professionals who haveignited their creativity and shaped their careers to thrive while living in the arts.
Today's interview is with Kenesha Williams, writer, comedian, and lover girl.
(00:21):
They have a demonstrated history in writers' rooms, film review, newsletters, personalnarrative, and artistic project facilitation.
In today's episode, we're going to learn about the Writers Guild Access Support StaffTraining Program, what makes a good logline, and the value of journaling and community.
One takeaway I can offer you already?
You can only live your dreams if you're there to live them.
For more, stay tuned.
(00:46):
Hi everyone.
We are so excited to be here for season two of the Living in the Arts podcast.
I am so excited that our producer is stepping from behind the scenes onto the mic so thatClaire can co-host with me and we can continue to have more conversations with incredible
(01:07):
artists across the country.
That's me.
Hello.
It's me, producer Claire on the mic.
But more importantly than me being here is our
incredible guest that's here with us today.
Yeah, Kinesha.
Kinesha Williams.
Kinesha.
Okay, professional introduction.
Hello, I'm Kinesha Williams, writer, comedian, friend to Claire and all.
(01:30):
And professional introduction.
What's up?
I'm so excited.
For the premiere of season two, thank you for having me.
Yes.
We do something that Laura used to do or Laura does in all of our meetings on the showcalled Good Thing Bad Thing.
It's my favorite thing.
You can have a good thing from the week or a bad thing from the week.
It doesn't have to be from the week.
(01:51):
It could be from life in general.
It does not have to be from work.
You can have two good things, but you can't have two bad things.
And you don't have to have a bad thing if you don't want to.
Yeah.
I like that rule.
OK.
It's the only rule.
I can go first if that's helpful.
I did that with like
I started doing that at UChicago and then it just continued with me.
So I'm gonna choose to have two good things today.
(02:15):
I am actively choosing happiness.
My first good thing is that I was wearing my new lipstick and my fancy makeup and mydaughter came down the stairs and she's three and she said, mama, your lips are pretty.
And I was like,
(02:36):
my God, this is the best validation I've ever received in my life.
And then my second thing is that I found out that they make chocolate ice cream that'schocolate malt and it has waffle cone pieces in it.
I think that that's a great thing right now, but in the future could be a bad thing.
(02:57):
So I'll do a combo.
Claire?
Good thing.
An Amazon package that I already received a refund for because it got lost in the mailshowed up at my house two months later.
So that's cool.
Love when that happens.
So that's cool.
And I have a spare microphone now just in case something bad happens because it was a giftfor my partner.
(03:20):
So I did get a refund to get him the microphone.
But now I have a second backup microphone, which is great.
I would love to know where it was in the two months.
On somebody's truck.
was on somebody's truck and just got lost in the ether.
My bad thing is that Kenesha and I unfortunately were, we were gonna stream together lastnight and didn't get to because of my life.
(03:46):
So we're gonna stream together soon in the future again.
like to, Kenesha comes on and does date with me.
So we streamed Dating Sims together.
yeah, that's my bad thing.
Now I get to see them today, so it all works out.
Yes.
Any day is a good day for a date, team sim.
Amazing.
(04:07):
Amazing.
That's the season two energy we want.
Writer, comedian.
Lover girl.
OK.
OK, so good things, good things, good things.
Let me think.
This was like the first time in long time I also wore makeup.
I just kind of went full face.
I was like, let's live in this energy.
(04:27):
and I went into work and immediately my favorite coworker was like, you look beautiful.
It looks amazing, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, that's what I thought.
Like, thank you, I needed that.
So that was a good thing.
What else happened?
I picked out a keyboard to buy.
(04:47):
I picked out two keyboards to buy, actually, two versions of keyboard.
First, I got a pink.
like this very pink mechanical keyboard that I've been eyeing for a really long time andit types like a dream.
From where?
it's just the Logitech Pop Keys.
Cute!
Those are cute though.
They're so cute, but I want to build a custom one, but we're getting there.
And then also I've been eyeing like a digital piano and so I picked out the one that Iwant.
(05:13):
Do you play the piano?
No, I play other instruments, but I feel like I just want to learn piano.
Yeah.
it will make me more disciplined in my chords.
So yeah.
I'm here for that.
Honestly, I think that's incredible.
We'll see.
We'll see how far we get.
I just like also like want you to like hold it up and be like, do do like make your own.
(05:37):
A keytar?
Yes.
want it to become one.
I think I saw one in Guitar Center when I was shopping for keyboards.
So I don't know.
It's a real it's a reality that's out there.
my God.
Speaking of the myriad paths through reality, tell us about how you got into the arts andyour path to how it resides in your life now.
(05:59):
I don't know.
I feel like it's always corny when people were like, I was born and I exited the womb witha pencil in my hand.
But it really was kind of like that.
I've been writing since I could hold a pencil.
And, you know, I think it started with my family reading to me.
My first memories.
(06:20):
A lot of them are, you know, my mom buying all of those Winnie the Pooh books and justreading them to me.
And I liked them so much that they called me Pooh.
My family still calls me Pooh.
my God, Yeah.
So that's kind of my first memory reading.
And then it's gone from there.
As a kid, I wrote poetry.
(06:41):
I did a competition or two and won prizes, just local ones.
But I shared songs that I...
song lyrics that I wrote with my friends.
I've never been a drawer, so my doodles have always been just like whatever I was thinkingabout at that moment in class and just writing a song or a poem or even notes.
(07:01):
Like all of my crushes I've only confessed on paper.
Yes.
Yes.
I've never told someone I like you to my face.
It's always been like the most overwrought letter.
So I think it just came very naturally and has always been what I've pursued.
And it's just
a big part of who I am.
That's really incredible.
When did you decide that this was it for the long haul?
(07:23):
Like, this is me now.
There are like two different points.
You know, I think like, I'm a writer and I want to be paid money for writing has alwaysbeen.
It would have been like so young, you know, like in grade school where I was like, yeah,people get paid to write.
I will do that.
But I think screenwriting in particular, I remember that.
(07:47):
I was about 11 or so and I saw Coraline at home on HBO.
And it was my first time watching a movie all the way to the end credits.
And I think just seeing all of those names made me be like, hmm, there are so, like youneed so many people to make a film.
There's gotta be like something that I can do and then, you know, get access to that worldand, you know, create my own worlds with other people.
(08:15):
So it,
It's also pretty young, but that's like the most distinct moment I have where I was like,this is the plan now.
Okay.
So obviously I feel like there's a lot that happened in between you being like, this isthe plan and what happened now.
I read your great interview about after you've done the writer's access support stafftraining program.
Great interview.
(08:36):
We'll link it in the show notes, but I would love to hear more about either that programor other sort of like writing programs that you may have been through.
what that experience was like, would you recommend it?
And then like sort of the energy of knowing that like what type of person would yourecommend that sort of thing for knowing that like not everything works for everyone kind
of a thing.
But yeah, just tell us about it.
(08:58):
What was it?
How did that happen?
What was it like?
yeah.
So I met both of at UChicago.
Laura, you may not remember.
I was a chaotic person then, but.
Amazing.
If you give me context, I might.
You took a chance on me.
as a tiny director's assistant and I came one day and disappeared.
(09:18):
reappeared.
is incredible.
So yeah, I went to UChicago.
I went as a film major.
All my essays were about how I was going to work in film and the first year after thefirst quarter I was like, I'm not doing this.
No shade to UChicago.
I just felt that it was a very theoretical program and if I was going to think that hard,I was going to think about other people.
So I switched to sociology and
(09:41):
I was a qualitative sociologist, so that's still a lot of writing.
I just focused on ethnography.
And I always tell people who are like, what was the connection to that?
For me, was just, ethnography is all about listening to other people's stories and thenputting it in the context of data and telling a compelling theoretical story through other
(10:03):
people's experiences.
And so I think it has the same properties as writing any other story or...
any narrative work, you have to have an ear and a heart and a mind to understand otherpeople.
So that was very useful for me.
And then I forgot that I wanted to I was like, I'm going to be a sociologist.
(10:25):
I, that did not work out.
And I was like, nevermind.
That was crazy to me.
am indeed a writer.
So I found the Writers Access Support Staff Training Program via Twitter.
I think at the time,
It was my first job after finishing college and COVID happened and it just kind of came atthe perfect time for me to be like, hmm, I'm gonna actually put my foot forward into like
(10:52):
making this an actual, actual career.
And so I just followed a bunch of show runners on Twitter and Liz Ann Halper who createdthe program with the Writers Guild Foundation was promoting it.
was their first cycle.
And so applied, it's very simple application and I believe they will be recruiting againthis year as well.
(11:15):
So here's how to do the application.
Yes, please.
So if you would like to apply, they will be holding two cycles this year for classes, Ibelieve.
And if you go to wgfoundation.org and then programs and then select Writers Access SupportStaff Training Program.
There you can learn more about the program and then they have a, they should have asubmitable link when ready and you usually apply there.
(11:43):
For me, I had to prepare three log lines of ideas.
So that's just a short sentence describing your idea, whether it's like a, actually theyshould be television pilots, describing television pilots that you are thinking of
writing.
And then two to three brief, like 500 words or less essay, it's kind of,
(12:04):
describing the writer you are, what works inspired you, and kind of learning more aboutyou.
So at the time that I did it, it was not an imposing application.
And I think people who would feel really comfortable in this program, honestly, they workreally hard to pick a diverse group.
Diverse in age, gender.
(12:26):
I think a lot of people could be a great fit, but if you are comfortable sitting at yourlaptop for two to three hours at a time,
camera on or off sometimes, and you are a person who leans well toward being verydigitally organized, can do databases very easily, very particular about your punctuation
(12:48):
and why, you know, we use an N dash versus an dash, that kind of person.
You would have a lot of fun in this program, and they give a lot of guidance in terms ofhelping you connect with.
other writers, showrunners, and support staff, just giving you a real community for you touse to pursue this career.
So I would highly recommend it.
(13:11):
I'm just curious.
What makes a good log line?
Whew, that's a good question.
What's a log line?
So, Kenisha just explained, let me try to see if I can, let me see if I can try to like,re-explain to see if I'm right here.
A log line is like a...
one extremely carefully crafted sentence that pitches a pilot of a television show you'vebeen noodling on?
(13:33):
Yes, that is exactly it, Incredible.
I'm a writer.
You really are.
You talk to the people about your writings.
Like, you're very talented.
That episode's in the can, baby.
But yeah, that's what that's exactly what a log line is, Claire.
And they're very hard, think, sometimes.
(13:54):
But it's OK if they're not good.
What makes a good one though?
right.
I feel like the feeling that we're always chasing is I want to know more.
So you can do that with even very plain language.
think it's just all about, I mean, the first level of goodness is just great understandingof grammar concepts, not tapas.
(14:18):
Is it a sentence?
Is it a sentence?
Yeah, that's something you can think about.
And then, yeah, and then just make sure it actually describes your pilot, but you know,leaves some to be desired.
Let's take The Office.
That is a show that hopefully many know and love.
(14:39):
Maybe a log line that could work for that show is a documentary crew follows the lives ofan
ordinary suburban office led by the enigmatic Michael Scott.
That's a bad one.
But you know, just like, but I get the idea.
(14:59):
It's like that little preview line in the Netflix where it's like, exactly like who isMichael Scott?
What makes him like, whoa, you know, but better not just who is he, you know, is heoverconfident yet somehow lovable?
Just what kind of antics are they getting into at this office, and the documentary crew isfollowing them?
(15:20):
I need to know.
That would be the best feeling for a logline reader to have after reading your logline.
And I think there's not a lot of tips to give.
It is just writing a sentence.
Good sentence, good idea.
Exactly.
Have an excellent idea.
That's how you write a good logline.
(15:42):
Speaking of having a good idea,
Talk to us about your creative process.
What works for you?
What hasn't?
Do you have any like rituals or things that you do or things you don't do when you'rewriting or thinking about writing?
Yeah, my creative process is always shifting as am I.
First, I kind of read other writers and when I'm thinking about, you know, what my processis and what it should be, I am always thinking about
(16:07):
just interviews with other writers where they're actually talking about their day, howthey live their lives.
And I spend time trying to structure my life in a way that makes sense to me.
Someone, one very popular writer, once described writing as this almost torturous andinvoluntary experience where someone you don't know is saying something to you and writing
(16:28):
is the moment where you can capture it.
And it's hard to chase something so ephemeral.
So the creative process for me is just,
figuring out how to create the conditions where I can listen to that voice.
That involves journaling.
I think journaling is just a great way to practice listening to yourself and what you'rethinking about and tweak how you're processing what's going on.
(16:55):
I accidentally became a really good personal essay opinion writer from having a newsletterbecause...
You're kind of constantly doing that processing.
Did it help me do the creative writing I wanted to do that I hoped it would?
No.
But it did help me become a stronger writer.
I journal every day and I buy a new daily journal every year.
(17:15):
So that helps me.
And then just thinking about how all of the processes that you need to live your life kindof can serve writing.
I was just speaking with someone, you know, about how to motivate myself to
do fitness.
It turns out, just as I was born out of the womb with a pen, or so to speak, I also was adancer.
(17:38):
I started dancing when I was three and did competitions and all of that.
And I haven't been doing that.
And so someone put it to me, like, you're a creative person.
How do we make fitness a form of creative expression for you?
And to me, she was like, well, what if you choreograph?
you have ideas, right?
And I'm like, actually, yeah, I do.
(17:59):
I have a lot of, you know, movement ideas in my head.
And so to me that helped just because it became less about, I need to move my body, eventhough that is important.
Everyone move your body, please.
I'm pushing 40.
It became less about I need to move my body because I know it's good to move my body andmore about I need to move my body because this helps me be creative.
(18:23):
This is how I am.
better in touch with my mind is through the knowledge that I have stored in my body, themore that I am perceptive in my own experience, I can drive that, use that to channel my
writing.
And it's just like finding, kind of grasping on what's out of balance within you and justtuning it.
(18:43):
Like, I have downtime at work.
I have my laptop, let's get that open.
The mentors that I really respect have just told me that you have to just sit down andwrite.
The best way to have a creative process and be a writer is carve that time and show up forit.
And there's just no getting around it.
That's incredible.
(19:04):
I think about that a lot in terms of like everyone's practice and the different things andkind of how it's like this thing you love and you love doing, but sometimes you just have
to like sit and do it.
Or you want to do it so well that suddenly you don't feel like you can do it anymore.
paralyzed with fear moment.
(19:24):
Ugh, analysis paralysis all the time.
It's annoying.
It's so annoying.
It's not cute.
And the only way for it to be good is to do it and then do it again and again and againand again.
it's like...
Yeah.
I think that's a great lead in to another question that we have for you.
What strategies have you developed for self-care?
(19:45):
Yeah.
Well, you know, my first real introduction to the industry was a Black Lady sketch show, awonderful show, Gone Too Soon.
So grateful to them for that opportunity.
It was tough.
It was a big adjustment.
And as Claire and I you know, we worked together and I left the job that I had and startedthe next week, like next Monday.
(20:07):
Wow.
From Chicago to LA.
my God.
It was pretty sudden.
And it went from like, I have, you know, 40 hours a week, you know, kind of working onthings to like 60 hours a week on Zoom for like
six hours a day or so.
And for me, I think just adjusting to that schedule and accepting it, it became veryimportant to sleep and just be real about, real with myself about sleeping.
(20:33):
I think being assertive with myself about my boundaries.
I feel like people don't talk about it so much.
Like once you get your dream, what happens and how do you behave?
But for me, I think a lot of it was like, this is the thing that I wanted my entire life.
how do I actually take care of myself and not sacrifice myself at the altar for thisdream?
(20:55):
Because you can only live your dreams if you're there to live them.
So yeah, sleep became very important.
think eating and being honest about what I had time to make and what I had time to getbecame very, important.
And I think carving out time for fun, especially when...
(21:16):
the thing that you're passionate about becomes your source of income.
It can make that thing feel very loaded, even though it's still fun, but just diving intothings that are not that are really helpful.
I started going to a lot of concerts when I lived in Chicago because Chicago was a greatcity for the type of music that I loved.
(21:37):
And, you know, it was just like every other weekend, like, okay, I'm gonna go see a show.
I'm gonna go watch movies, like every spare hour, just really taking the time to datemyself, not even worrying if people were available to be with me.
Just take time to myself to make sure I was still connected to the things that I love andnot becoming absorbed with, have this one thing I really want and I gotta be perfect.
(22:03):
That's incredible.
It reminds me of when one of my professors in college had, I was stressed out and she waslike, just go date the city.
Like you are in Chicago, you're one of the greatest cities in the world.
Just go date the city.
That's so fun.
That's so cute.
I'm sad I didn't pass that knowledge on.
Yeah, what the We've known each other 10 years and this is the first time I'm hearingabout it.
(22:25):
It like triggered a memory.
Kenesha was like in it and I was in it and I was like, yeah.
And then I was like, my gosh, Amber did tell me to date the city.
wow.
And she was right.
Shout out to Amber.
Shout out to Amber.
Shout out to Amber.
Don't know, Amber, but shut out.
Me either.
Kenesha.
(22:45):
Yes.
So obviously, you were talking about this with your dating of the city and of yourself.
I'm curious now, what media are you consuming that's exciting or inspiring to you?
This is like my Claire the Human's favorite question to ask.
I asked this on the podcast.
I ask this to people in job interviews.
I love to ask it, and I'm vamping so that you have time to think.
(23:07):
I can't go off the dome.
I just need to think.
Because I am just gonna be blatant.
When you get asked that question, you wanna give the coolest, most cultured answers.
I is colliding with I have to tell the truth.
And so I'm just, let me pull up my cool answers and then I will tell you the truth.
That's how we're gonna do Yeah, absolutely.
(23:28):
Amazing.
There's a very real part of me.
that it's too hurt.
Yeah.
There's a very real part of my life that if you had asked me this question, unfortunately,the answer would be, yeah, the only thing I can think about right now is MILF Manor.
That question is loaded because it calls to mind whatever you're doing at the time.
And that can be really great or that could be really embarrassing for you.
I just remember that you never told me how it ended because Claire's been watching it togive me the update.
(23:53):
we'll come back to that.
Spoilers for MILF MANOR season one.
A couple of people get together, sort of, but I don't think any couples make it out of theshow.
wow.
I mean, are we surprised?
The concept is dating each other's sons.
That's so hectic.
(24:13):
Sorry.
It's so.
Anyway, yeah, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to have brought up MILF MANOR on the pod, but somebody's running those shows.
People get paid to make that.
And we watched it and had a great time.
Listen, if you want to be an editor, take, try reality.
If you are an editor who likes writing, try reality.
Cause the writers are the editors there.
(24:36):
I would say reflect on the work life balance perhaps before you make that decision, but atleast, you know.
And the ethics.
True, true.
Like your own ethics and personal boundaries.
Cause it varies from producer and editor to producer and editor.
feel like.
It does.
Hashtag unreal.
Unreal, the lifetime scripted television show that Laura and I love and describe as theworst version of ourselves.
(24:59):
on Hulu.
So good.
Six seasons, I think.
Yeah, I'm here.
I love Unreal.
Yeah.
Laura and I do describe Unreal as the worst version of ourselves.
Laura as Quinn and me as Rachel.
wow.
OK, so the honest answer is that I am going through an adult weeb phase.
I have never.
(25:21):
been weeb before.
I For those who might not know what a weeb refers to.
I don't know.
A weeb is not necessarily, but it's often an American consumer of Japanese animated showsand television, excuse me, shows and films, manga, and other products, games for example,
(25:45):
and who can be enthusiastic and can become a bit
of a cultural fetishizer if it leans into extremes.
That's kind of what Weeb is, also known as an otaku in Japanese.
A lot of American people go through this.
I'm in middle school, those who Naruto run, get really into Digimon, you may rememberthose folks.
(26:13):
Yeah, it's a normal phase.
I'm a late bloomer, so that is kind of what we've been going through.
Also, anime is good.
A lot of anime is very, good.
Some anime, questionable.
But some anime is very, good.
What I've been watching, I got really into Jujutsu Kaisen this year.
Excellent show.
I haven't watched it, but...
(26:34):
You need to watch it.
I'm sorry.
I almost became militant.
Okay, yeah.
No, it's on my list.
Another friend of mine was just talking about it and I was like, darn, it's back in thezeitgeist.
Yeah, please read.
Please read and watch.
I've read and watched.
I watch a lot of romance anime.
There's a show called Sasaki and Miyano, which is about two high school boys falling inlove.
And it's very earnest and wholesome.
(26:56):
And I would highly recommend that as well.
I feel like anime has been really helpful for me in terms of taking seriously othergenres.
I learned that a lot of the stories I really, really like or have been interested in havedemons, shikigami, yokei, all sorts of spiritual entities.
And it made me realize that I really do like horror.
(27:17):
I just am very particular about it.
This year I was like, I should write some horror as well.
It would not be anime, but I don't know.
It just made me realize, you know, it made me question like what I'm searching to say withmy work and, you know, other avenues and, you know, bodies of imagery that I can draw upon
that to kind of get that out there.
(27:39):
So that was really helpful.
The only anime I've really watched like as an adult is Bungo Stray Dogs because mynibbling.
loves it and I love it and that was the anime that we were able to like come together on.
But like I love the like a completely different genre.
Because like that's the thing is like I love anime because of how new it is, even thoughit's very old.
(28:01):
New to you.
But like new to me.
also like anime has been around for, you know, 500 years.
Like, I see.
know, it's in terms of like the art forms and creative expression.
What is your, is anime your cool answer or your truthful answer?
That's my truthful answer, but I have a cool answer within it actually, I just remembered.
(28:23):
One very cool anime, I believe it was from the producing group, creative entity behindSailor Moon.
They kind of got sick of making like very cute magical girl shows.
Even though I love Sailor Moon, I just finished a rewatch with my friend.
It's called Revolutionary Girl Utena.
It's very sapphic, very violent.
(28:44):
Very trigger warning.
There's some strong themes.
Check out the content warnings before you view it.
Please do.
I was very moved by it and I read so many different fan essays about Jungian readings ofwhat was going on.
(29:05):
There's very interesting thoughts about life, death, and the in-between.
I would recommend that.
My cool answer is there's this documentary called Suzanne, Suzanne.
It's like 26 minutes.
And I really enjoyed that documentary.
I felt moved by it.
I've been very inspired by Happy Hour.
My first watch of that film, it's a Japanese film directed by the same person who directedDrive My Car.
(29:32):
I've read an interview with him where he was like, I've kind of been making the same movielike over and over and over.
Happy Hour is five hours long, so I don't know if he packed all the ideas into that one orwhat.
But I've been thinking about it for the past two years, just because of that, what he saidin that interview, that it's the same movie over and over and over, but also it's about
(29:55):
three women who are friends, and one of them is going through a painful divorce, and theykind of just have different experiences and journeys with their partners within that
movie, but.
You kind of see like how they draw upon each other and like negotiate what is meaningfullove, support and interaction.
And it's just incredibly, incredibly moving.
(30:18):
I feel like it makes you pay attention to how we communicate, you know, beyond just likewhat we're literally saying and how to live in moments where you just feel the other
person.
You just feel like the tension radiating from their body and reading them that way.
And yeah, I needed all five hours.
(30:39):
I cried multiple times.
To earn a five hour movie is a lot.
I'm very interested now.
like I, Laura and I saw the flick together back in the day.
Laura hated it.
I loved it.
earn the length of something like that is so, is so wild to me.
It's like a three hour play where it's like, it's mostly cleaning the theater, but it isall about that like tension between, between people.
(31:05):
both kind of looking ahead and reflecting on what you've been through thus far in yourlife.
What advice would you give your younger self about this industry, about this work?
What advice would I give to my younger self?
I mean, it's painful, but I think the decisions that self you have made were in fact theright ones to get to at least this point.
(31:31):
I would say just practice earlier.
accepting the first draft.
What kind of keeps me from getting to the final draft is just rejecting the first one andgetting stuck there.
So that is the most important advice I could give myself.
(31:52):
And that's in every facet of my life, not just literally writing, but accepting my firsttry of learning something new.
Accepting where I am and being comfortable with the journey of getting to where I want tobe.
It's totally fine to do that.
Now, like expanding out from just you, what would you tell either young people, youngpeople in general, or their caregivers about how to handle career aspirations in the arts?
(32:22):
What I would say
is to kind of help your child explore, you know, because it sounds like if you're nervousfor them, there's research that you both can do to find, you know, learn more about the
different careers.
They don't have to jump straight to being a world renowned author to eat.
There are administrative positions, you know, a lot of what I found in the entertainmentexperience, especially is at the end of the day, the creative industries want to make you
(32:46):
pay your dues.
And that's maybe that's any industry, but it's very emphasized in the creative industry.
And so just lean into the fact that, yeah, you have to do other jobs to sustain yourselfand pay your dues.
Like you're not gonna be, know, starving until like you magically meet the one producerwho wants to produce your script.
You're gonna have to work anyway.
(33:07):
So acquaint yourself, you know, with the different, you know, jobs and different skillsthat your child has, and you know, that kind of are on that ladder or adjacent to it, and
you know, work towards those and just.
Not to say, don't write, but to really embrace what their desire is and then talk aboutrealistic ways to get there.
(33:31):
For me, that was really helpful not to bring it back to me, but my mom knew that I wantedto write and had a strong affinity for it and has always told me my entire life, why don't
you try being an editor?
you know, why don't you try, you know, working in papers and doing this and that.
And I did get to have some of those experiences and they were very helpful for me andshowed me, you know, different avenues I could pursue to eat, but also to learn and to
(34:00):
work with other people and find stability for myself should I want it.
And, you know, that was just really encouraging because it was a caretaker, you know,honestly accepting.
Like, I'm worried for you.
And it is important to keep your eyes on what you want.
That's great.
That's something that I mean, that's something that we're trying to hit on with the pod ingeneral is that like the career writer is a huge aspiration.
(34:25):
And there are like any I mean, any career in the arts that has that sort of like titlethat you choose when you're 11 has so many ways that you can go into it and so many
different ways that you can have that be a part of your life with that, like withoutstarving.
That is so exciting.
can't wait till part two.
I can't wait to have you back.
Thank you for being here for the opening of season one.
(34:47):
Two.
Or season two.
Thank you for being here for the opening of season two.
Thank you.
Bye.
Living in the Arts is hosted by Laura Scales with original music and editing by JasonDuran.
It is produced and co-hosted by Claire Haupe and our podcast coordinator is Colin Shy.
For more information about anything our guest mentioned, be sure to check out the shownotes.
(35:08):
Living in the Arts is made possible by listeners like you.
Don't forget to follow, rate, review, or share an episode that excites you.
To learn more and support Living in the Arts, please visit livingartsdetroit.org.
Thank you so much for joining us and so much for listening.
Hello, I'm Laura Scales, a dedicated arts facilitator, career counselor, and the CEO ofLiving Arts Detroit.
Join us as we chat with both experienced and emerging artistic professionals who haveignited their creativity and shaped their careers to thrive while living in the arts.
Today's interview is with Kenesha Williams, writer, comedian, and lover girl.
(00:21):
They have a demonstrated history in writers' rooms, film review, newsletters, personalnarrative, and artistic project facilitation.
In today's episode, we're going to learn about the Writers Guild Access Support StaffTraining Program, what makes a good logline, and the value of journaling and community.
One takeaway I can offer you already?
You can only live your dreams if you're there to live them.
For more, stay tuned.
(00:46):
Hi everyone.
We are so excited to be here for season two of the Living in the Arts podcast.
I am so excited that our producer is stepping from behind the scenes onto the mic so thatClaire can co-host with me and we can continue to have more conversations with incredible
(01:07):
artists across the country.
That's me.
Hello.
It's me, producer Claire on the mic.
But more importantly than me being here is our
incredible guest that's here with us today.
Yeah, Kinesha.
Kinesha Williams.
Kinesha.
Okay, professional introduction.
Hello, I'm Kinesha Williams, writer, comedian, friend to Claire and all.
(01:30):
And professional introduction.
What's up?
I'm so excited.
For the premiere of season two, thank you for having me.
Yes.
We do something that Laura used to do or Laura does in all of our meetings on the showcalled Good Thing Bad Thing.
It's my favorite thing.
You can have a good thing from the week or a bad thing from the week.
It doesn't have to be from the week.
(01:51):
It could be from life in general.
It does not have to be from work.
You can have two good things, but you can't have two bad things.
And you don't have to have a bad thing if you don't want to.
Yeah.
I like that rule.
OK.
It's the only rule.
I can go first if that's helpful.
I did that with like
I started doing that at UChicago and then it just continued with me.
So I'm gonna choose to have two good things today.
(02:15):
I am actively choosing happiness.
My first good thing is that I was wearing my new lipstick and my fancy makeup and mydaughter came down the stairs and she's three and she said, mama, your lips are pretty.
And I was like,
(02:36):
my God, this is the best validation I've ever received in my life.
And then my second thing is that I found out that they make chocolate ice cream that'schocolate malt and it has waffle cone pieces in it.
I think that that's a great thing right now, but in the future could be a bad thing.
(02:57):
So I'll do a combo.
Claire?
Good thing.
An Amazon package that I already received a refund for because it got lost in the mailshowed up at my house two months later.
So that's cool.
Love when that happens.
So that's cool.
And I have a spare microphone now just in case something bad happens because it was a giftfor my partner.
(03:20):
So I did get a refund to get him the microphone.
But now I have a second backup microphone, which is great.
I would love to know where it was in the two months.
On somebody's truck.
was on somebody's truck and just got lost in the ether.
My bad thing is that Kenesha and I unfortunately were, we were gonna stream together lastnight and didn't get to because of my life.
(03:46):
So we're gonna stream together soon in the future again.
like to, Kenesha comes on and does date with me.
So we streamed Dating Sims together.
yeah, that's my bad thing.
Now I get to see them today, so it all works out.
Yes.
Any day is a good day for a date, team sim.
Amazing.
(04:07):
Amazing.
That's the season two energy we want.
Writer, comedian.
Lover girl.
OK.
OK, so good things, good things, good things.
Let me think.
This was like the first time in long time I also wore makeup.
I just kind of went full face.
I was like, let's live in this energy.
(04:27):
and I went into work and immediately my favorite coworker was like, you look beautiful.
It looks amazing, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, that's what I thought.
Like, thank you, I needed that.
So that was a good thing.
What else happened?
I picked out a keyboard to buy.
(04:47):
I picked out two keyboards to buy, actually, two versions of keyboard.
First, I got a pink.
like this very pink mechanical keyboard that I've been eyeing for a really long time andit types like a dream.
From where?
it's just the Logitech Pop Keys.
Cute!
Those are cute though.
They're so cute, but I want to build a custom one, but we're getting there.
And then also I've been eyeing like a digital piano and so I picked out the one that Iwant.
(05:13):
Do you play the piano?
No, I play other instruments, but I feel like I just want to learn piano.
Yeah.
it will make me more disciplined in my chords.
So yeah.
I'm here for that.
Honestly, I think that's incredible.
We'll see.
We'll see how far we get.
I just like also like want you to like hold it up and be like, do do like make your own.
(05:37):
A keytar?
Yes.
want it to become one.
I think I saw one in Guitar Center when I was shopping for keyboards.
So I don't know.
It's a real it's a reality that's out there.
my God.
Speaking of the myriad paths through reality, tell us about how you got into the arts andyour path to how it resides in your life now.
(05:59):
I don't know.
I feel like it's always corny when people were like, I was born and I exited the womb witha pencil in my hand.
But it really was kind of like that.
I've been writing since I could hold a pencil.
And, you know, I think it started with my family reading to me.
My first memories.
(06:20):
A lot of them are, you know, my mom buying all of those Winnie the Pooh books and justreading them to me.
And I liked them so much that they called me Pooh.
My family still calls me Pooh.
my God, Yeah.
So that's kind of my first memory reading.
And then it's gone from there.
As a kid, I wrote poetry.
(06:41):
I did a competition or two and won prizes, just local ones.
But I shared songs that I...
song lyrics that I wrote with my friends.
I've never been a drawer, so my doodles have always been just like whatever I was thinkingabout at that moment in class and just writing a song or a poem or even notes.
(07:01):
Like all of my crushes I've only confessed on paper.
Yes.
Yes.
I've never told someone I like you to my face.
It's always been like the most overwrought letter.
So I think it just came very naturally and has always been what I've pursued.
And it's just
a big part of who I am.
That's really incredible.
When did you decide that this was it for the long haul?
(07:23):
Like, this is me now.
There are like two different points.
You know, I think like, I'm a writer and I want to be paid money for writing has alwaysbeen.
It would have been like so young, you know, like in grade school where I was like, yeah,people get paid to write.
I will do that.
But I think screenwriting in particular, I remember that.
(07:47):
I was about 11 or so and I saw Coraline at home on HBO.
And it was my first time watching a movie all the way to the end credits.
And I think just seeing all of those names made me be like, hmm, there are so, like youneed so many people to make a film.
There's gotta be like something that I can do and then, you know, get access to that worldand, you know, create my own worlds with other people.
(08:15):
So it,
It's also pretty young, but that's like the most distinct moment I have where I was like,this is the plan now.
Okay.
So obviously I feel like there's a lot that happened in between you being like, this isthe plan and what happened now.
I read your great interview about after you've done the writer's access support stafftraining program.
Great interview.
(08:36):
We'll link it in the show notes, but I would love to hear more about either that programor other sort of like writing programs that you may have been through.
what that experience was like, would you recommend it?
And then like sort of the energy of knowing that like what type of person would yourecommend that sort of thing for knowing that like not everything works for everyone kind
of a thing.
But yeah, just tell us about it.
(08:58):
What was it?
How did that happen?
What was it like?
yeah.
So I met both of at UChicago.
Laura, you may not remember.
I was a chaotic person then, but.
Amazing.
If you give me context, I might.
You took a chance on me.
as a tiny director's assistant and I came one day and disappeared.
(09:18):
reappeared.
is incredible.
So yeah, I went to UChicago.
I went as a film major.
All my essays were about how I was going to work in film and the first year after thefirst quarter I was like, I'm not doing this.
No shade to UChicago.
I just felt that it was a very theoretical program and if I was going to think that hard,I was going to think about other people.
So I switched to sociology and
(09:41):
I was a qualitative sociologist, so that's still a lot of writing.
I just focused on ethnography.
And I always tell people who are like, what was the connection to that?
For me, was just, ethnography is all about listening to other people's stories and thenputting it in the context of data and telling a compelling theoretical story through other
(10:03):
people's experiences.
And so I think it has the same properties as writing any other story or...
any narrative work, you have to have an ear and a heart and a mind to understand otherpeople.
So that was very useful for me.
And then I forgot that I wanted to I was like, I'm going to be a sociologist.
(10:25):
I, that did not work out.
And I was like, nevermind.
That was crazy to me.
am indeed a writer.
So I found the Writers Access Support Staff Training Program via Twitter.
I think at the time,
It was my first job after finishing college and COVID happened and it just kind of came atthe perfect time for me to be like, hmm, I'm gonna actually put my foot forward into like
(10:52):
making this an actual, actual career.
And so I just followed a bunch of show runners on Twitter and Liz Ann Halper who createdthe program with the Writers Guild Foundation was promoting it.
was their first cycle.
And so applied, it's very simple application and I believe they will be recruiting againthis year as well.
(11:15):
So here's how to do the application.
Yes, please.
So if you would like to apply, they will be holding two cycles this year for classes, Ibelieve.
And if you go to wgfoundation.org and then programs and then select Writers Access SupportStaff Training Program.
There you can learn more about the program and then they have a, they should have asubmitable link when ready and you usually apply there.
(11:43):
For me, I had to prepare three log lines of ideas.
So that's just a short sentence describing your idea, whether it's like a, actually theyshould be television pilots, describing television pilots that you are thinking of
writing.
And then two to three brief, like 500 words or less essay, it's kind of,
(12:04):
describing the writer you are, what works inspired you, and kind of learning more aboutyou.
So at the time that I did it, it was not an imposing application.
And I think people who would feel really comfortable in this program, honestly, they workreally hard to pick a diverse group.
Diverse in age, gender.
(12:26):
I think a lot of people could be a great fit, but if you are comfortable sitting at yourlaptop for two to three hours at a time,
camera on or off sometimes, and you are a person who leans well toward being verydigitally organized, can do databases very easily, very particular about your punctuation
(12:48):
and why, you know, we use an N dash versus an dash, that kind of person.
You would have a lot of fun in this program, and they give a lot of guidance in terms ofhelping you connect with.
other writers, showrunners, and support staff, just giving you a real community for you touse to pursue this career.
So I would highly recommend it.
(13:11):
I'm just curious.
What makes a good log line?
Whew, that's a good question.
What's a log line?
So, Kenisha just explained, let me try to see if I can, let me see if I can try to like,re-explain to see if I'm right here.
A log line is like a...
one extremely carefully crafted sentence that pitches a pilot of a television show you'vebeen noodling on?
(13:33):
Yes, that is exactly it, Incredible.
I'm a writer.
You really are.
You talk to the people about your writings.
Like, you're very talented.
That episode's in the can, baby.
But yeah, that's what that's exactly what a log line is, Claire.
And they're very hard, think, sometimes.
(13:54):
But it's OK if they're not good.
What makes a good one though?
right.
I feel like the feeling that we're always chasing is I want to know more.
So you can do that with even very plain language.
think it's just all about, I mean, the first level of goodness is just great understandingof grammar concepts, not tapas.
(14:18):
Is it a sentence?
Is it a sentence?
Yeah, that's something you can think about.
And then, yeah, and then just make sure it actually describes your pilot, but you know,leaves some to be desired.
Let's take The Office.
That is a show that hopefully many know and love.
(14:39):
Maybe a log line that could work for that show is a documentary crew follows the lives ofan
ordinary suburban office led by the enigmatic Michael Scott.
That's a bad one.
But you know, just like, but I get the idea.
(14:59):
It's like that little preview line in the Netflix where it's like, exactly like who isMichael Scott?
What makes him like, whoa, you know, but better not just who is he, you know, is heoverconfident yet somehow lovable?
Just what kind of antics are they getting into at this office, and the documentary crew isfollowing them?
(15:20):
I need to know.
That would be the best feeling for a logline reader to have after reading your logline.
And I think there's not a lot of tips to give.
It is just writing a sentence.
Good sentence, good idea.
Exactly.
Have an excellent idea.
That's how you write a good logline.
(15:42):
Speaking of having a good idea,
Talk to us about your creative process.
What works for you?
What hasn't?
Do you have any like rituals or things that you do or things you don't do when you'rewriting or thinking about writing?
Yeah, my creative process is always shifting as am I.
First, I kind of read other writers and when I'm thinking about, you know, what my processis and what it should be, I am always thinking about
(16:07):
just interviews with other writers where they're actually talking about their day, howthey live their lives.
And I spend time trying to structure my life in a way that makes sense to me.
Someone, one very popular writer, once described writing as this almost torturous andinvoluntary experience where someone you don't know is saying something to you and writing
(16:28):
is the moment where you can capture it.
And it's hard to chase something so ephemeral.
So the creative process for me is just,
figuring out how to create the conditions where I can listen to that voice.
That involves journaling.
I think journaling is just a great way to practice listening to yourself and what you'rethinking about and tweak how you're processing what's going on.
(16:55):
I accidentally became a really good personal essay opinion writer from having a newsletterbecause...
You're kind of constantly doing that processing.
Did it help me do the creative writing I wanted to do that I hoped it would?
No.
But it did help me become a stronger writer.
I journal every day and I buy a new daily journal every year.
(17:15):
So that helps me.
And then just thinking about how all of the processes that you need to live your life kindof can serve writing.
I was just speaking with someone, you know, about how to motivate myself to
do fitness.
It turns out, just as I was born out of the womb with a pen, or so to speak, I also was adancer.
(17:38):
I started dancing when I was three and did competitions and all of that.
And I haven't been doing that.
And so someone put it to me, like, you're a creative person.
How do we make fitness a form of creative expression for you?
And to me, she was like, well, what if you choreograph?
you have ideas, right?
And I'm like, actually, yeah, I do.
(17:59):
I have a lot of, you know, movement ideas in my head.
And so to me that helped just because it became less about, I need to move my body, eventhough that is important.
Everyone move your body, please.
I'm pushing 40.
It became less about I need to move my body because I know it's good to move my body andmore about I need to move my body because this helps me be creative.
(18:23):
This is how I am.
better in touch with my mind is through the knowledge that I have stored in my body, themore that I am perceptive in my own experience, I can drive that, use that to channel my
writing.
And it's just like finding, kind of grasping on what's out of balance within you and justtuning it.
(18:43):
Like, I have downtime at work.
I have my laptop, let's get that open.
The mentors that I really respect have just told me that you have to just sit down andwrite.
The best way to have a creative process and be a writer is carve that time and show up forit.
And there's just no getting around it.
That's incredible.
(19:04):
I think about that a lot in terms of like everyone's practice and the different things andkind of how it's like this thing you love and you love doing, but sometimes you just have
to like sit and do it.
Or you want to do it so well that suddenly you don't feel like you can do it anymore.
paralyzed with fear moment.
(19:24):
Ugh, analysis paralysis all the time.
It's annoying.
It's so annoying.
It's not cute.
And the only way for it to be good is to do it and then do it again and again and againand again.
it's like...
Yeah.
I think that's a great lead in to another question that we have for you.
What strategies have you developed for self-care?
(19:45):
Yeah.
Well, you know, my first real introduction to the industry was a Black Lady sketch show, awonderful show, Gone Too Soon.
So grateful to them for that opportunity.
It was tough.
It was a big adjustment.
And as Claire and I you know, we worked together and I left the job that I had and startedthe next week, like next Monday.
(20:07):
Wow.
From Chicago to LA.
my God.
It was pretty sudden.
And it went from like, I have, you know, 40 hours a week, you know, kind of working onthings to like 60 hours a week on Zoom for like
six hours a day or so.
And for me, I think just adjusting to that schedule and accepting it, it became veryimportant to sleep and just be real about, real with myself about sleeping.
(20:33):
I think being assertive with myself about my boundaries.
I feel like people don't talk about it so much.
Like once you get your dream, what happens and how do you behave?
But for me, I think a lot of it was like, this is the thing that I wanted my entire life.
how do I actually take care of myself and not sacrifice myself at the altar for thisdream?
(20:55):
Because you can only live your dreams if you're there to live them.
So yeah, sleep became very important.
think eating and being honest about what I had time to make and what I had time to getbecame very, important.
And I think carving out time for fun, especially when...
(21:16):
the thing that you're passionate about becomes your source of income.
It can make that thing feel very loaded, even though it's still fun, but just diving intothings that are not that are really helpful.
I started going to a lot of concerts when I lived in Chicago because Chicago was a greatcity for the type of music that I loved.
(21:37):
And, you know, it was just like every other weekend, like, okay, I'm gonna go see a show.
I'm gonna go watch movies, like every spare hour, just really taking the time to datemyself, not even worrying if people were available to be with me.
Just take time to myself to make sure I was still connected to the things that I love andnot becoming absorbed with, have this one thing I really want and I gotta be perfect.
(22:03):
That's incredible.
It reminds me of when one of my professors in college had, I was stressed out and she waslike, just go date the city.
Like you are in Chicago, you're one of the greatest cities in the world.
Just go date the city.
That's so fun.
That's so cute.
I'm sad I didn't pass that knowledge on.
Yeah, what the We've known each other 10 years and this is the first time I'm hearingabout it.
(22:25):
It like triggered a memory.
Kenesha was like in it and I was in it and I was like, yeah.
And then I was like, my gosh, Amber did tell me to date the city.
wow.
And she was right.
Shout out to Amber.
Shout out to Amber.
Shout out to Amber.
Don't know, Amber, but shut out.
Me either.
Kenesha.
(22:45):
Yes.
So obviously, you were talking about this with your dating of the city and of yourself.
I'm curious now, what media are you consuming that's exciting or inspiring to you?
This is like my Claire the Human's favorite question to ask.
I asked this on the podcast.
I ask this to people in job interviews.
I love to ask it, and I'm vamping so that you have time to think.
(23:07):
I can't go off the dome.
I just need to think.
Because I am just gonna be blatant.
When you get asked that question, you wanna give the coolest, most cultured answers.
I is colliding with I have to tell the truth.
And so I'm just, let me pull up my cool answers and then I will tell you the truth.
That's how we're gonna do Yeah, absolutely.
(23:28):
Amazing.
There's a very real part of me.
that it's too hurt.
Yeah.
There's a very real part of my life that if you had asked me this question, unfortunately,the answer would be, yeah, the only thing I can think about right now is MILF Manor.
That question is loaded because it calls to mind whatever you're doing at the time.
And that can be really great or that could be really embarrassing for you.
I just remember that you never told me how it ended because Claire's been watching it togive me the update.
(23:53):
we'll come back to that.
Spoilers for MILF MANOR season one.
A couple of people get together, sort of, but I don't think any couples make it out of theshow.
wow.
I mean, are we surprised?
The concept is dating each other's sons.
That's so hectic.
(24:13):
Sorry.
It's so.
Anyway, yeah, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to have brought up MILF MANOR on the pod, but somebody's running those shows.
People get paid to make that.
And we watched it and had a great time.
Listen, if you want to be an editor, take, try reality.
If you are an editor who likes writing, try reality.
Cause the writers are the editors there.
(24:36):
I would say reflect on the work life balance perhaps before you make that decision, but atleast, you know.
And the ethics.
True, true.
Like your own ethics and personal boundaries.
Cause it varies from producer and editor to producer and editor.
feel like.
It does.
Hashtag unreal.
Unreal, the lifetime scripted television show that Laura and I love and describe as theworst version of ourselves.
(24:59):
on Hulu.
So good.
Six seasons, I think.
Yeah, I'm here.
I love Unreal.
Yeah.
Laura and I do describe Unreal as the worst version of ourselves.
Laura as Quinn and me as Rachel.
wow.
OK, so the honest answer is that I am going through an adult weeb phase.
I have never.
(25:21):
been weeb before.
I For those who might not know what a weeb refers to.
I don't know.
A weeb is not necessarily, but it's often an American consumer of Japanese animated showsand television, excuse me, shows and films, manga, and other products, games for example,
(25:45):
and who can be enthusiastic and can become a bit
of a cultural fetishizer if it leans into extremes.
That's kind of what Weeb is, also known as an otaku in Japanese.
A lot of American people go through this.
I'm in middle school, those who Naruto run, get really into Digimon, you may rememberthose folks.
(26:13):
Yeah, it's a normal phase.
I'm a late bloomer, so that is kind of what we've been going through.
Also, anime is good.
A lot of anime is very, good.
Some anime, questionable.
But some anime is very, good.
What I've been watching, I got really into Jujutsu Kaisen this year.
Excellent show.
I haven't watched it, but...
(26:34):
You need to watch it.
I'm sorry.
I almost became militant.
Okay, yeah.
No, it's on my list.
Another friend of mine was just talking about it and I was like, darn, it's back in thezeitgeist.
Yeah, please read.
Please read and watch.
I've read and watched.
I watch a lot of romance anime.
There's a show called Sasaki and Miyano, which is about two high school boys falling inlove.
And it's very earnest and wholesome.
(26:56):
And I would highly recommend that as well.
I feel like anime has been really helpful for me in terms of taking seriously othergenres.
I learned that a lot of the stories I really, really like or have been interested in havedemons, shikigami, yokei, all sorts of spiritual entities.
And it made me realize that I really do like horror.
(27:17):
I just am very particular about it.
This year I was like, I should write some horror as well.
It would not be anime, but I don't know.
It just made me realize, you know, it made me question like what I'm searching to say withmy work and, you know, other avenues and, you know, bodies of imagery that I can draw upon
that to kind of get that out there.
(27:39):
So that was really helpful.
The only anime I've really watched like as an adult is Bungo Stray Dogs because mynibbling.
loves it and I love it and that was the anime that we were able to like come together on.
But like I love the like a completely different genre.
Because like that's the thing is like I love anime because of how new it is, even thoughit's very old.
(28:01):
New to you.
But like new to me.
also like anime has been around for, you know, 500 years.
Like, I see.
know, it's in terms of like the art forms and creative expression.
What is your, is anime your cool answer or your truthful answer?
That's my truthful answer, but I have a cool answer within it actually, I just remembered.
(28:23):
One very cool anime, I believe it was from the producing group, creative entity behindSailor Moon.
They kind of got sick of making like very cute magical girl shows.
Even though I love Sailor Moon, I just finished a rewatch with my friend.
It's called Revolutionary Girl Utena.
It's very sapphic, very violent.
(28:44):
Very trigger warning.
There's some strong themes.
Check out the content warnings before you view it.
Please do.
I was very moved by it and I read so many different fan essays about Jungian readings ofwhat was going on.
(29:05):
There's very interesting thoughts about life, death, and the in-between.
I would recommend that.
My cool answer is there's this documentary called Suzanne, Suzanne.
It's like 26 minutes.
And I really enjoyed that documentary.
I felt moved by it.
I've been very inspired by Happy Hour.
My first watch of that film, it's a Japanese film directed by the same person who directedDrive My Car.
(29:32):
I've read an interview with him where he was like, I've kind of been making the same movielike over and over and over.
Happy Hour is five hours long, so I don't know if he packed all the ideas into that one orwhat.
But I've been thinking about it for the past two years, just because of that, what he saidin that interview, that it's the same movie over and over and over, but also it's about
(29:55):
three women who are friends, and one of them is going through a painful divorce, and theykind of just have different experiences and journeys with their partners within that
movie, but.
You kind of see like how they draw upon each other and like negotiate what is meaningfullove, support and interaction.
And it's just incredibly, incredibly moving.
(30:18):
I feel like it makes you pay attention to how we communicate, you know, beyond just likewhat we're literally saying and how to live in moments where you just feel the other
person.
You just feel like the tension radiating from their body and reading them that way.
And yeah, I needed all five hours.
(30:39):
I cried multiple times.
To earn a five hour movie is a lot.
I'm very interested now.
like I, Laura and I saw the flick together back in the day.
Laura hated it.
I loved it.
earn the length of something like that is so, is so wild to me.
It's like a three hour play where it's like, it's mostly cleaning the theater, but it isall about that like tension between, between people.
(31:05):
both kind of looking ahead and reflecting on what you've been through thus far in yourlife.
What advice would you give your younger self about this industry, about this work?
What advice would I give to my younger self?
I mean, it's painful, but I think the decisions that self you have made were in fact theright ones to get to at least this point.
(31:31):
I would say just practice earlier.
accepting the first draft.
What kind of keeps me from getting to the final draft is just rejecting the first one andgetting stuck there.
So that is the most important advice I could give myself.
(31:52):
And that's in every facet of my life, not just literally writing, but accepting my firsttry of learning something new.
Accepting where I am and being comfortable with the journey of getting to where I want tobe.
It's totally fine to do that.
Now, like expanding out from just you, what would you tell either young people, youngpeople in general, or their caregivers about how to handle career aspirations in the arts?
(32:22):
What I would say
is to kind of help your child explore, you know, because it sounds like if you're nervousfor them, there's research that you both can do to find, you know, learn more about the
different careers.
They don't have to jump straight to being a world renowned author to eat.
There are administrative positions, you know, a lot of what I found in the entertainmentexperience, especially is at the end of the day, the creative industries want to make you
(32:46):
pay your dues.
And that's maybe that's any industry, but it's very emphasized in the creative industry.
And so just lean into the fact that, yeah, you have to do other jobs to sustain yourselfand pay your dues.
Like you're not gonna be, know, starving until like you magically meet the one producerwho wants to produce your script.
You're gonna have to work anyway.
(33:07):
So acquaint yourself, you know, with the different, you know, jobs and different skillsthat your child has, and you know, that kind of are on that ladder or adjacent to it, and
you know, work towards those and just.
Not to say, don't write, but to really embrace what their desire is and then talk aboutrealistic ways to get there.
(33:31):
For me, that was really helpful not to bring it back to me, but my mom knew that I wantedto write and had a strong affinity for it and has always told me my entire life, why don't
you try being an editor?
you know, why don't you try, you know, working in papers and doing this and that.
And I did get to have some of those experiences and they were very helpful for me andshowed me, you know, different avenues I could pursue to eat, but also to learn and to
(34:00):
work with other people and find stability for myself should I want it.
And, you know, that was just really encouraging because it was a caretaker, you know,honestly accepting.
Like, I'm worried for you.
And it is important to keep your eyes on what you want.
That's great.
That's something that I mean, that's something that we're trying to hit on with the pod ingeneral is that like the career writer is a huge aspiration.
(34:25):
And there are like any I mean, any career in the arts that has that sort of like titlethat you choose when you're 11 has so many ways that you can go into it and so many
different ways that you can have that be a part of your life with that, like withoutstarving.
That is so exciting.
can't wait till part two.
I can't wait to have you back.
Thank you for being here for the opening of season one.
(34:47):
Two.
Or season two.
Thank you for being here for the opening of season two.
Thank you.
Bye.
Living in the Arts is hosted by Laura Scales with original music and editing by JasonDuran.
It is produced and co-hosted by Claire Haupe and our podcast coordinator is Colin Shy.
For more information about anything our guest mentioned, be sure to check out the shownotes.
(35:08):
Living in the Arts is made possible by listeners like you.
Don't forget to follow, rate, review, or share an episode that excites you.
To learn more and support Living in the Arts, please visit livingartsdetroit.org.
Thank you so much for joining us and so much for listening.
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