Mary Oliver

In our eighth episode, and our first of 2025,  we take a deep dive into the poetry of acclaimed American poet, Mary Oliver (1935 – 2019) .  Her work is inspired by long walks in nature but she takes a novel approach driven by an unquenchable curiosity and a refusal to bow to negativity or adverse circumstances. 

We also enjoy a fun quiz on the 10 greatest poets of all time.  Who do you think should make this auspicious list?

There is no Hobson’s Choice segment in this episode but we are collecting responses from the community regarding a favourite poem that they were taught at school and these will be aired in the future. 

Poems discussed in this episode:

The Journey poem - Mary Oliver

Starlings in Winter poem - Mary Oliver

When Death Comes poem - Mary Oliver

 

Announcements: 

The Fortnightly Pier Poetry Group at Louis Joel Arts & Community, facilitated by Peter, is on at 11am on Fridays with the next meeting occurring on 16 May, 2025 . Come along if you love talking poetry.  

Email [e-mail] to register your interest. 

Louis Joel Arts and Community Centre are currently offering their wonderful Autumn 2025 program. There are so many great things on offer – for details go to Louis Joel Arts & Community

We would like to hear from you! 

As part of our 'Hobsons Choice' segment, we would like to hear from you. If you would like to be interviewed about a poem or if you just want to share your love of poetry, send us an email on [e-mail]. Constructive criticism and praise are welcomed. Currently we have a focus on a favourite poem you were taught at school or during your childhood. 

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Credits: 

Hosts: Peter Roberts, David Tredinnick & Colleen Murphy 

Original music composed by Andrew Gilpin and Sam Price. 

Podcast Coordinator: Colleen Murphy

Editor: Colleen Murphy

Episode Transcript

(00:08):
We also note that this land was never ceded. 3 00:00:37,299.327911163 --> 00:00:43,569.327911163 Well, hi, and welcome back to the Louis Joel Poetry Pod, our first podcast of 2025. 4 00:00:43,599.327911163 --> 00:00:44,949.327911163 Um, my name's Peter Robertson. 5 00:00:44,949.327911163 --> 00:00:48,519.327911163 I'm joined as usual by Dave Tredinnick and Colleen Murphy. 6 00:00:48,519.327911163 --> 00:00:49,809.327911163 Hello, Dave and Colleen. 7 00:00:49,929.327911163 --> 00:00:50,529.327911163 Hello Peter. 8 00:00:50,919.327911163 --> 00:00:51,639.327911163 Nice to be back. 9 00:00:51,849.327911163 --> 00:00:52,779.327911163 Hi, Pete. 10 00:00:52,959.327911163 --> 00:00:53,769.327911163 Lovely to see you. 11 00:00:53,769.327911163 --> 00:00:55,89.327911163 both Excellent. 12 00:00:55,89.327911163 --> 00:00:56,109.327911163 Lovely to be seen. 13 00:00:57,129.327911163 --> 00:00:59,709.327911163 Being seen is very important, beautiful. 14 00:01:00,459.327911163 --> 00:01:06,189.327911163 Um, thank you everybody who Has emailed us while we've been on a, on our breaks. 15 00:01:06,189.327911163 --> 00:01:10,719.327911163 We all had a lovely time and are looking forward to doing lots of things with you this year. 16 00:01:10,989.327911163 --> 00:01:19,529.327911163 Please keep sending in, poems that you'd like us to discuss or your own poetry or in fact anything that, sparks your fancy. 17 00:01:19,529.327911163 --> 00:01:26,99.327911163 We love hearing from you and we are looking forward to doing a bit more with the emails that we receive from you this year. 18 00:01:26,639.327911163 --> 00:01:27,719.327911163 More on that later. 19 00:01:28,424.327911163 --> 00:01:31,529.327911163 Where could they send those comments to you? Oh, good point. 20 00:01:32,9.327911163 --> 00:01:39,209.327911163 Yes, please send it to l jac [e-mail]. 21 00:01:40,14.32791116 --> 00:01:40,584.32791116 Fabulous. 22 00:01:40,584.32791116 --> 00:01:44,964.32791116 And yes, as Coleen said, we look forward to receiving those and we'll act upon them. 23 00:01:44,964.32791116 --> 00:01:46,584.32791116 We can give you that guarantee. 24 00:01:47,34.32791116 --> 00:01:51,79.32791116 But today we're gonna focus on a single poet, the wonderful Mary Oliver. 25 00:01:51,739.32791116 --> 00:01:54,134.32791116 She is well and truly worth focusing on, in and of her. 26 00:01:54,910.99457783 --> 00:01:55,480.99457783 Self. 27 00:01:55,780.99457783 --> 00:02:02,20.99457783 But the other thing that was in our mind a little is that she's on the curriculum for year 12, English and Victoria this year. 28 00:02:02,20.99457783 --> 00:02:08,710.99457783 So we thought this podcast may be helpful to some students out there who will be studying her work. 29 00:02:09,580.99457783 --> 00:02:19,915.99457783 Before we get into Mary Oliver, though, I wanna set my two fellow podcasters a little task to do as the podcast goes on, Oh, what? Recently we to do work. 30 00:02:20,75.99457783 --> 00:02:20,945.99457783 have to do work. 31 00:02:20,950.99457783 --> 00:02:23,575.99457783 It's turning it it's not like V. 32 00:02:23,575.99457783 --> 00:02:25,165.99457783 He's got his teacher's hat on. 33 00:02:25,165.99457783 --> 00:02:25,375.99457783 Colle. 34 00:02:25,550.99457783 --> 00:02:26,825.99457783 I have not got my teacher's hat. 35 00:02:26,825.99457783 --> 00:02:31,445.99457783 My teacher's hat fell off about three decades ago and has never returned. 36 00:02:31,445.99457783 --> 00:02:35,65.99457783 But, um thing corporal punishment's been outlawed in this state. 37 00:02:35,375.99457783 --> 00:02:42,205.99457783 I'm not completely in agreement with um, anyway, anyway, so I could still get a spanking before the night's over. 38 00:02:43,675.99457783 --> 00:02:47,790.99457783 Wouldn't be the first time you'd got a spanking in the evening, I Excellent. 39 00:02:47,935.99457783 --> 00:02:51,595.99457783 Um, anyway, nice here Alright, we'll keep it nice. 40 00:02:51,955.99457783 --> 00:02:54,415.99457783 Anyway, I was reading poetry.com 41 00:02:54,475.99457783 --> 00:02:57,505.99457783 as I frequently do, and they came out with. 42 00:02:57,790.99457783 --> 00:03:00,730.99457783 Their list of the 10 greatest poets of all time. 43 00:03:01,360.99457783 --> 00:03:06,340.99457783 And what I'm gonna ask you to do is to consider through the podcast who might be on that list. 44 00:03:06,640.99457783 --> 00:03:09,200.99457783 I'm gonna give you a little bit of a helpful, hint. 45 00:03:09,650.99457783 --> 00:03:13,990.99457783 They're very focused on, Europe and North America. 46 00:03:14,170.99457783 --> 00:03:17,230.99457783 You're unlikely to find Lee Po from China. 47 00:03:17,260.99457783 --> 00:03:19,390.99457783 You're unlikely to find any Japanese writers. 48 00:03:19,390.99457783 --> 00:03:21,310.99457783 In fact, unlikely is the wrong word. 49 00:03:21,310.99457783 --> 00:03:21,850.99457783 You won't. 50 00:03:22,165.99457783 --> 00:03:23,245.99457783 Find any of those. 51 00:03:23,725.99457783 --> 00:03:28,855.99457783 So it's an awesome task they've set for themselves the 10 greatest poets of all time. 52 00:03:28,855.99457783 --> 00:03:38,262.99457783 So I'll let you dwell on that while I give a little bit of background about Mary Oliver and then we'll get into some of her poems. 53 00:03:39,55.99457783 --> 00:03:41,590.99457783 Are you up for the challenge? I'm up for it. 54 00:03:41,950.99457783 --> 00:03:50,230.99457783 What about you, Cole? I think that it's my role to say, yes, I'm up for it and be open to new challenges, but I, I'll, I'll give Yes. 55 00:03:50,230.99457783 --> 00:03:51,280.99457783 I'm looking forward to doing that. 56 00:03:51,280.99457783 --> 00:03:52,300.99457783 That will be fabulous fun. 57 00:03:52,300.99457783 --> 00:03:52,750.99457783 Thank you. 58 00:03:52,840.99457783 --> 00:03:58,540.99457783 And I will tell you that one, um, school of English poetry is overrepresented. 59 00:03:59,350.99457783 --> 00:04:03,910.99457783 I would say, Um, I'll even say they're romantic poets. 60 00:04:04,750.99457783 --> 00:04:05,530.99457783 Mm, that's what I was thinking. 61 00:04:05,530.99457783 --> 00:04:05,680.99457783 Alright. 62 00:04:06,430.99457783 --> 00:04:11,800.99457783 Um, geez, I think I've got half a list there are some American poets in there. 63 00:04:12,310.99457783 --> 00:04:23,895.99457783 Um, surprisingly, perhaps there are some women in there, um, given where it you serious? how'd they getting? Oh, well, I the hell? So, um, question though, is this site. 64 00:04:24,600.99457783 --> 00:04:31,735.99457783 Out of a particular country? Is it out of I think poetry dot com's? Um, I think it's based in the Right. 65 00:04:31,765.99457783 --> 00:04:32,55.99457783 Okay. 66 00:04:32,105.99457783 --> 00:04:32,395.99457783 Okay. 67 00:04:32,655.99457783 --> 00:04:40,210.99457783 But Alright, but back to Mary Oliver and you guys might have a couple of minutes to scribble away as I give a little bit of a biographical background on Mary Oliver. 68 00:04:40,210.99457783 --> 00:04:49,790.99457783 She was born in Cleveland in 1935, and in a 2011 interview she described her family as a dysfunctional, family. 69 00:04:49,790.99457783 --> 00:04:53,410.99457783 And in fact, I understand that she may well have been abused. 70 00:04:53,530.99457783 --> 00:05:01,235.99457783 I don't know what part of the family were the extended family or, or what, but she certainly has said that it happened. 71 00:05:01,685.99457783 --> 00:05:12,415.99457783 And she said that that meant that she spent a lot of her childhood walking and creating a world that was preferable for her to the world in which she was living. 72 00:05:12,865.99457783 --> 00:05:25,795.99457783 And if you read, mary Oliver for a while you'll realize the primacy of walking and particularly walking in nature in the woods, it goes through her poem massively. 73 00:05:26,695.99457783 --> 00:05:38,875.99457783 It, the way she talks about it is almost, I suppose, in a meditative or prayer sense, almost like that sort of sense in, Buddhism or some of the eastern religions of meditative walking or prayerful walking. 74 00:05:40,0.99457783 --> 00:05:46,840.99457783 And it has a particular resonance for me because I would've said my childhood occurred in two acts. 75 00:05:46,840.99457783 --> 00:05:51,220.99457783 The first act, which was in a small town called Castin until I was about 12. 76 00:05:51,550.99457783 --> 00:05:53,830.99457783 I would describe my childhood as idyllic. 77 00:05:54,670.99457783 --> 00:05:59,500.99457783 The second act, which occurred in Leon Gutha and does not involve any mushrooms. 78 00:05:59,950.99457783 --> 00:06:06,500.99457783 Was somewhat more troubled, largely due to, um, my father experiencing significant illness. 79 00:06:06,580.99457783 --> 00:06:08,440.99457783 And that went on for a long time. 80 00:06:08,440.99457783 --> 00:06:20,890.99457783 And one of the things I found great solace in and has remained with me for the rest of my life was just near our house, was, uh, a railway track and it went out into the countryside. 81 00:06:20,890.99457783 --> 00:06:23,740.99457783 And I would walk along that for hours and hours and hours. 82 00:06:23,740.99457783 --> 00:06:26,390.99457783 And it was a real, saving grace. 83 00:06:26,390.99457783 --> 00:06:27,770.99457783 It was really protective. 84 00:06:27,770.99457783 --> 00:06:35,90.99457783 And so the moment, I heard this about Mary Oliver and I read in her poetry, I found that a strong point of which to relate to. 85 00:06:35,510.99457783 --> 00:06:37,370.99457783 And I think there's other examples too. 86 00:06:37,430.99457783 --> 00:06:41,900.99457783 You'd see the number of people, for example, who walk things like the Camino. 87 00:06:42,39.09457783 --> 00:06:42,365.99457783 Mm-hmm. 88 00:06:42,680.99457783 --> 00:06:45,590.99457783 and they have various motives for doing that. 89 00:06:45,590.99457783 --> 00:07:05,270.99457783 But a lot of it is that sort of sense of, I think, absorbing the silence of the natural world, observing it and, in some way, using that as a landscape, almost literally, to deal within a turmoil or, things that are not going right in their lives. 90 00:07:05,270.99457783 --> 00:07:10,700.99457783 And it's a very powerful theme in, in her work, as you'll see when we get to the Palms. 91 00:07:11,250.99457783 --> 00:07:16,290.99457783 She studied at Ohio State University in Vassar College in the fifties, but she didn't receive a degree. 92 00:07:16,290.99457783 --> 00:07:18,570.99457783 I, I'm not quite sure why. 93 00:07:19,770.99457783 --> 00:07:24,630.99457783 She herself claimed she was heavily influenced by Whitman and Thoreau. 94 00:07:25,110.99457783 --> 00:07:28,590.99457783 And I see some elements of William Blake in her work too. 95 00:07:28,860.99457783 --> 00:07:31,560.99457783 She has some delightful stories about walking in the woods. 96 00:07:31,590.99457783 --> 00:07:39,720.99457783 The one that I really liked is that she related a time she was out there and a poem came to her and she had her paper, but she didn't have a pen. 97 00:07:39,720.99457783 --> 00:07:44,760.99457783 So after that, she hid pencils in trees along the roots that she often took. 98 00:07:44,760.99457783 --> 00:07:50,490.99457783 So that if, uh, she was struck by the muse that she, she could find a pencil, to write with. 99 00:07:50,705.99457783 --> 00:07:55,20.99457783 Oh, how charming is that? a lovely story, isn't it? It's, it's, it's a lovely story. 100 00:07:55,350.99457783 --> 00:08:10,40.99457783 So in the late fifties, uh, she met a woman called Molly Malone Cook, and they were together almost instantaneously, and they in fact lived together for well over 40 years, obviously in a loving relationship until Cook's death. 101 00:08:10,40.99457783 --> 00:08:17,640.99457783 In 2005, they lived in a place called Provincetown in Massachusetts, which, Oliver describes with great affection. 102 00:08:18,0.99457783 --> 00:08:23,595.99457783 It's surrounded by woods, but also has a bay, and she walked constantly. 103 00:08:23,675.99457783 --> 00:08:24,455.99457783 Daily. 104 00:08:24,725.99457783 --> 00:08:27,485.99457783 And she was not deterred by weather or conditions. 105 00:08:27,875.99457783 --> 00:08:43,815.99457783 And, she attributes her poetry and her, what she, I think said in an interview was her self preservation due to that habit, She won a pulitz surprise for poetry in 1984. 106 00:08:44,365.99457783 --> 00:09:03,237.99457783 She was often, treated pretty harshly by critics, but she is one of the most red poets in the us What critics, what, what was their beef with our Mary? I think, um, I think that their main criticism was they didn't see her as poetic enough. 107 00:09:04,105.99457783 --> 00:09:19,338.86457783 Um, And you can imagine the kind of critics, I guess particularly a woman, would've faced in the 1950s, she had a pretty conservative poetry establishment who weren't oh, so this is going back to the early days when she started writing. 108 00:09:19,338.86457783 --> 00:09:21,678.86457783 She was copying shtick back then. 109 00:09:21,798.86457783 --> 00:09:22,158.86457783 she was. 110 00:09:22,158.86457783 --> 00:09:23,178.86457783 Yeah, definitely. 111 00:09:23,328.86457783 --> 00:09:24,848.86457783 And look, she passed away. 112 00:09:24,908.86457783 --> 00:09:25,508.86457783 Uh. 113 00:09:25,973.86457783 --> 00:09:29,723.86457783 I think it was 2017 at the age 2019. 114 00:09:29,723.86457783 --> 00:09:36,309.86457783 Thanks Dave at the age of 83 and has left a body of work, which I would say is formidable. 115 00:09:37,43.86457783 --> 00:09:42,173.86457783 Um, and like 25 books of poetry or something Extraordinary. 116 00:09:42,173.86457783 --> 00:09:42,383.86457783 That's right. 117 00:09:42,383.86457783 --> 00:09:42,533.86457783 Yeah. 118 00:09:42,743.86457783 --> 00:09:42,983.86457783 Yeah. 119 00:09:43,73.86457783 --> 00:09:46,388.86457783 That's a huge body of that is a huge body of work. 120 00:09:46,808.86457783 --> 00:09:54,708.86457783 And look, she reminds me of the notion of the Wayfarer, which is the person who, there's a famous painting by Bosch called. 121 00:09:55,893.86457783 --> 00:09:58,938.86457783 The Wayfair, No, enough, stop it. 122 00:09:58,938.86457783 --> 00:09:59,743.86457783 And, strangely enough, strange. 123 00:10:00,583.86457783 --> 00:10:12,423.86457783 But the painting basically is of a lonely person walking through a fairly arid landscape, but with sort of mystical voices or beings speaking to them all the time. 124 00:10:12,423.86457783 --> 00:10:15,183.86457783 And so there's a lot of people who've. 125 00:10:15,633.86457783 --> 00:10:28,983.86457783 In poetry who've looked at the notion of the Wayfair, probably one of the most famous was Wordsworth with the Prelude, where he ascended Mount Snowden and, you know, had all these learnings. 126 00:10:28,983.86457783 --> 00:10:39,513.86457783 But even someone like Leonard Cohen, who became a monk for six years at Mount Baldy talked about walking and silence and observing natural worlds. 127 00:10:39,513.86457783 --> 00:10:49,128.86457783 So there's quite a bit, um, in that she would've liked the tone, She would've loved the tone, Seemed to have, you know, loved a wetland. 128 00:10:49,128.86457783 --> 00:10:51,678.86457783 The She loved trumping around a wetland. 129 00:10:52,843.86457783 --> 00:10:53,623.86457783 Cherry Lake. 130 00:10:53,688.86457783 --> 00:10:59,118.86457783 She would've adored the dog park, the, the co, the yeah, the coastal walk. 131 00:10:59,118.86457783 --> 00:11:00,108.86457783 A hundred steps. 132 00:11:00,228.86457783 --> 00:11:01,158.86457783 She would've had a ball. 133 00:11:01,518.86457783 --> 00:11:12,408.86457783 She would've got at least three books of poetry out of Bet there would've been a lot of pencils in those trees I'm gonna have a look just in case the Ghost of Mary's been plopping the odd hb. 134 00:11:12,558.86457783 --> 00:11:13,38.86457783 Yeah. 135 00:11:13,38.86457783 --> 00:11:13,818.86457783 Head of a scri. 136 00:11:13,818.86457783 --> 00:11:15,648.86457783 The scribbly gum here and there. 137 00:11:16,113.86457783 --> 00:11:25,443.86457783 And I mean, I guess, you know, it would've been pretty gutsy to live together as two women in the 1950s, um, in the United States. 138 00:11:25,653.86457783 --> 00:11:26,658.86457783 Um, yeah, true. 139 00:11:26,673.86457783 --> 00:11:34,853.86457783 And Molly, was a photographer but I, I know that she had work published, but I, I dunno a lot else about her. 140 00:11:35,33.86457783 --> 00:11:38,213.86457783 So, two artists living together, having a lovely life. 141 00:11:38,213.86457783 --> 00:11:53,743.86457783 They sound like, they were, a beautiful couple from the way I, I, I've heard a podcast of, uh, Mary Oliver being interviewed and, you know, she spoke like any loving partner that's been with someone for a long time about her partner, and it was really beautiful. 142 00:11:54,343.86457783 --> 00:11:54,433.86457783 Mm-hmm. 143 00:11:55,393.86457783 --> 00:11:57,553.86457783 So we might dive into one of her poems now. 144 00:11:58,423.86457783 --> 00:11:59,83.86457783 let's dive. 145 00:11:59,83.86457783 --> 00:12:04,93.86457783 So are we gonna look at first, we thought we might look at the journey. 146 00:12:06,478.86457783 --> 00:12:07,528.86457783 Which I will read. 147 00:12:08,398.86457783 --> 00:12:24,958.86457783 One day when you finally knew what you had to do and began though the voices around you kept shouting their bad advice, though the whole house began to tremble and you felt the old tug at your ankles mended my life, each voice cried. 148 00:12:26,428.86457783 --> 00:12:27,508.86457783 But you didn't stop. 149 00:12:28,108.86457783 --> 00:12:30,88.86457783 You knew what you had to do though. 150 00:12:30,88.86457783 --> 00:12:36,328.86457783 The wind pried with its stiff fingers at the very foundations, though their melancholy was terrible. 151 00:12:37,18.86457783 --> 00:12:42,424.86457783 It was already late enough and a wild night and the road full of fallen branches and stones. 152 00:12:43,618.86457783 --> 00:12:50,248.86457783 But little by little, as you lift their voices behind the stars began to burn through the sheets of clouds. 153 00:12:50,833.86457783 --> 00:13:07,840.86457783 And there was a new voice which you slowly recognized as your own, that kept you company as you strode deeper and deeper into the world, determined to do the only thing you could do, Determined to save the only life you could save. 154 00:13:09,913.86457783 --> 00:13:14,792.61457783 And I think, this is almost sort of summing up that notion that we are talking about, that she. 155 00:13:15,482.61457783 --> 00:13:27,152.61457783 She walks to find solace and to leave behind a lot of the trauma that she had had experienced, but also to find herself. 156 00:13:27,662.61457783 --> 00:13:34,952.61457783 And I think that's quite a powerful sort of sense of exploration puts there. 157 00:13:35,777.61457783 --> 00:13:48,997.61457783 It was intensely personal, this poem, and it was something I might have misread, something that she wrote in the book, that she published called a Poetry Handbook, where she talks about, or beginning poets or being encouraged to. 158 00:13:50,677.61457783 --> 00:13:57,337.61457783 Write autobiographically and sort of delve into their own life, you seems like a little bit resistant towards that. 159 00:13:57,397.61457783 --> 00:14:04,442.61457783 And then moving towards, or as a poets of aiming towards universals. 160 00:14:04,742.61457783 --> 00:14:04,962.61457783 Mm. 161 00:14:06,632.61457783 --> 00:14:10,407.61457783 the poetic voice in this one seems to be so merry. 162 00:14:10,422.61457783 --> 00:14:10,512.61457783 Hmm. 163 00:14:11,52.61457783 --> 00:14:13,632.61457783 As opposed to other ones that Yeah. 164 00:14:14,262.61457783 --> 00:14:16,782.61457783 Have stumbled especially after the introduction. 165 00:14:16,782.61457783 --> 00:14:17,322.61457783 We've heard. 166 00:14:17,352.61457783 --> 00:14:18,42.61457783 Yeah. 167 00:14:18,42.61457783 --> 00:14:22,216.61457783 You can't help but place it in her, biography. 168 00:14:22,642.61457783 --> 00:14:25,102.61457783 And I think Pixie is a big fan too. 169 00:14:25,282.61457783 --> 00:14:27,52.61457783 Pixie Loves Mary Oliver. 170 00:14:27,142.61457783 --> 00:14:29,752.61457783 Pixie is a little kitty cat that you can hear in the background. 171 00:14:29,752.61457783 --> 00:14:35,2.61457783 And I figure that, that she's just loving the journey 'cause there's so many birds. 172 00:14:35,2.61457783 --> 00:14:36,617.61457783 She writes about so many That's right. 173 00:14:36,617.61457783 --> 00:14:37,102.61457783 That's right. 174 00:14:37,102.61457783 --> 00:14:39,172.61457783 She's very much, yeah. 175 00:14:39,652.61457783 --> 00:14:41,512.61457783 I also like that sort of. 176 00:14:42,187.61457783 --> 00:14:45,667.61457783 way that the voices demand mend my life. 177 00:14:45,907.61457783 --> 00:14:50,197.61457783 Each voice cried is if she's being assailed. 178 00:14:50,527.61457783 --> 00:15:01,27.61457783 And I'm not sure if that's part of her or it's others, or it's both that, Um, that she needs to get away from that. 179 00:15:01,207.61457783 --> 00:15:10,607.61457783 Maybe their expectations, maybe there, other people wanting her to fix them or maybe their elements of her own psyche. 180 00:15:10,607.61457783 --> 00:15:14,87.61457783 I'm not really sure, and I actually like how is. 181 00:15:14,117.61457783 --> 00:15:14,207.61457783 Mm-hmm. 182 00:15:14,927.61457783 --> 00:15:15,107.61457783 Mm-hmm. 183 00:15:17,567.61457783 --> 00:15:23,697.61457783 and it's interesting, i, think we talk a lot about her walking, but there's some tremendous descriptions of nature here. 184 00:15:23,697.61457783 --> 00:15:28,287.61457783 I love the wild night and the road full of fallen branches and stones. 185 00:15:28,677.61457783 --> 00:15:33,382.61457783 But little by little as you left, their voices behind the stars began to burn. 186 00:15:34,137.61457783 --> 00:15:37,662.61457783 And I think that's, that's just a wonderful bit of writing Mm-hmm. 187 00:15:37,662.61457783 --> 00:15:37,663.61457783 Mm-hmm. 188 00:15:37,887.61457783 --> 00:15:41,397.61457783 It's got air echoes of, of Dante in there as well. 189 00:15:41,757.61457783 --> 00:15:41,847.61457783 Mm-hmm. 190 00:15:41,997.61457783 --> 00:15:50,127.61457783 Um, you know, the early part of the divine comedy and stepping out onto the road and it will be a little bit crazy and wooly and not knowing where you're going. 191 00:15:50,127.61457783 --> 00:15:50,187.61457783 Yeah. 192 00:15:51,147.61457783 --> 00:16:03,957.61457783 The reference to the whole house began to tremble and you felt the old tug your ankles doesn't sort of write about structures very much, and when houses come up, it's like a very dark thing. 193 00:16:03,957.61457783 --> 00:16:09,987.61457783 Anything that's got walls or is constricting is a really negative image in her work. 194 00:16:10,152.61457783 --> 00:16:10,512.61457783 Yeah. 195 00:16:11,232.61457783 --> 00:16:11,982.61457783 I think you're right. 196 00:16:11,982.61457783 --> 00:16:24,362.61457783 And I think it's, also that, you know, sort of notion of having to get away from the din you know, the, the noise of it and, and yes, the, the Mm-hmm. 197 00:16:24,442.61457783 --> 00:16:35,152.61457783 but it, it's, you're being assailed by it and you, you can't get any clarity until you, you move physically Yeah. 198 00:16:35,722.61457783 --> 00:16:38,422.61457783 right out of that environment into another environment. 199 00:16:38,752.61457783 --> 00:16:47,457.6145778 That actually starts to talk to you rather than talk against you if And I, I like the way that it could be her own head. 200 00:16:47,977.6145778 --> 00:16:48,307.6145778 Mm. 201 00:16:48,367.6145778 --> 00:16:51,397.6145778 Or it could be others around her. 202 00:16:51,397.6145778 --> 00:16:52,747.6145778 It could be both, you know? Mm. 203 00:16:52,797.6145778 --> 00:17:00,197.6145778 And when I first read this, I was like, just wasn't quite sure and I thought, actually I quite like that. 204 00:17:00,197.6145778 --> 00:17:03,287.6145778 That's ambiguous because it could very well be both. 205 00:17:03,827.6145778 --> 00:17:04,47.6145778 Yep. 206 00:17:05,492.6145778 --> 00:17:05,732.6145778 Yeah. 207 00:17:06,107.6145778 --> 00:17:11,727.6145778 Because you would be saying to yourself, mend, my life and feeling completely incapable of doing it. 208 00:17:12,52.6145778 --> 00:17:12,342.6145778 Yeah. 209 00:17:12,942.6145778 --> 00:17:13,222.6145778 Absolutely. 210 00:17:14,517.6145778 --> 00:17:18,147.6145778 And also like when she says, you strode deeper and deeper into the world. 211 00:17:18,537.6145778 --> 00:17:22,372.6145778 So that, I think she's really saying there, the rest of it's a fabrication. 212 00:17:22,917.6145778 --> 00:17:29,582.6145778 You know, it, the houses, the cities, the, the things, these, these are fabrications, they're, they're temporal. 213 00:17:30,297.6145778 --> 00:17:31,737.6145778 The world is out here. 214 00:17:31,737.6145778 --> 00:17:33,242.6145778 It's not where you think it is. 215 00:17:33,942.6145778 --> 00:17:37,872.6145778 That certainly resonated a lot with me, I think, and I think you're right, Dave. 216 00:17:37,872.6145778 --> 00:17:47,937.6145778 I think it's immensely personal um, courageous Yeah. 217 00:17:47,937.6145778 --> 00:17:51,462.6145778 I think incredibly difficult for her to broach Yeah. 218 00:17:51,462.6145778 --> 00:17:53,337.6145778 With this stuff. 219 00:17:53,367.6145778 --> 00:18:06,417.6145778 Um, this, I was listening to that same podcast that you were listen, that you'd listen to where there was a book of poetry, which was very much set in or exploring this part of her life, but she didn't realize she was doing it. 220 00:18:07,722.6145778 --> 00:18:08,472.6145778 She wasn't aware. 221 00:18:08,472.6145778 --> 00:18:10,302.6145778 It sort of had snuck up on her. 222 00:18:10,392.6145778 --> 00:18:13,392.6145778 It wasn't something that she was choosing to do consciously Yeah. 223 00:18:13,392.6145778 --> 00:18:23,872.6145778 And came out in it came out on the page and it wasn't until it was written and I think at one point published that she looked back on it and reflected it was her life. 224 00:18:23,877.6145778 --> 00:18:24,122.6145778 Mm-hmm. 225 00:18:25,927.6145778 --> 00:18:30,522.6145778 I think the last two lines, determined to save the only, only life you could save. 226 00:18:31,317.6145778 --> 00:18:35,862.6145778 And that to me, sort of suggests that she can't save these other people. 227 00:18:37,37.6145778 --> 00:18:42,417.6145778 If they are indeed other people parts she can only save herself. 228 00:18:43,17.6145778 --> 00:18:43,227.6145778 Mm-hmm. 229 00:18:43,227.6145778 --> 00:18:55,302.6145778 And, but she doesn't really have that realization well away Immersed in, in the natural world, which, becomes clearer as she goes. 230 00:18:55,302.6145778 --> 00:19:00,942.6145778 So the sheets of clouds move and the stars burn. 231 00:19:01,2.6145778 --> 00:19:03,652.6145778 Things become clearer Mm-hmm. 232 00:19:04,77.6145778 --> 00:19:04,227.6145778 Yeah. 233 00:19:04,227.6145778 --> 00:19:19,377.6145778 It's a slow dawning that comes over her in this poem and in other poems as well, where she's at that space that she finds when she's walking and in nature that allows her to be. 234 00:19:19,917.6145778 --> 00:19:25,407.6145778 Herself and to have these thoughts about the world and where we fit into the world. 235 00:19:25,407.6145778 --> 00:19:37,47.6145778 It only comes with time and patience and letting herself sit in nature and, and in her true self. 236 00:19:37,107.6145778 --> 00:19:41,547.6145778 There's some sort of sense of finding and her authentic self. 237 00:19:42,372.6145778 --> 00:19:45,552.6145778 By getting away from all the other distractions. 238 00:19:46,47.6145778 --> 00:20:02,977.6145778 And there's something incredibly healing about being out in nature, we're just back from Tasmania and you feel it in your body when you are out in the wilderness and the air and the animals and the. 239 00:20:03,382.6145778 --> 00:20:06,262.6145778 The only nature sounds are the sounds that you hear. 240 00:20:06,262.6145778 --> 00:20:11,242.6145778 And it's so beautiful that it does something to your soul, I think. 241 00:20:11,242.6145778 --> 00:20:24,692.6145778 And I think part of what I feel when I read these is, is that cleansing? I sound all hippie, don't I? But it's, it's that cleansing and that, comfort that you get when you are out in the wilderness. 242 00:20:24,697.6145778 --> 00:20:24,997.6145778 Mm-hmm. 243 00:20:25,427.6145778 --> 00:20:26,77.6145778 Yeah, definitely. 244 00:20:26,912.6145778 --> 00:20:27,302.6145778 I got it. 245 00:20:27,332.6145778 --> 00:20:32,232.6145778 Just walking around Blackburn Lake on the Yeah, You would? I haven't been to Blackburn Lake. 246 00:20:32,232.6145778 --> 00:20:32,512.6145778 Yeah. 247 00:20:32,972.6145778 --> 00:20:37,322.6145778 Dus and just all the birds are going off and there's a kingfisher and there's no other people around. 248 00:20:37,322.6145778 --> 00:20:38,487.6145778 You go, huh? Yeah. 249 00:20:38,732.6145778 --> 00:20:39,32.6145778 Yeah. 250 00:20:39,542.6145778 --> 00:20:41,792.6145778 Feeling at one in the birds. 251 00:20:42,797.6145778 --> 00:20:44,87.6145778 Well, talking about birds. 252 00:20:44,87.6145778 --> 00:20:47,177.6145778 Why don't we look at the second poem, which I think Colin's gonna read. 253 00:20:47,477.6145778 --> 00:20:49,607.6145778 I think he said burbs. 254 00:20:49,607.6145778 --> 00:20:52,692.6145778 But yeah, I think it's a nice segue, regardless. 255 00:20:54,677.6145778 --> 00:20:55,727.6145778 I thought I said boobs. 256 00:20:57,392.6145778 --> 00:21:00,437.6145778 No, you're in a mood tonight, David. 257 00:21:00,812.6145778 --> 00:21:01,12.6145778 I am. 258 00:21:01,62.6145778 --> 00:21:01,727.6145778 Isn't a mood. 259 00:21:02,402.6145778 --> 00:21:02,852.6145778 okay. 260 00:21:02,912.6145778 --> 00:21:03,362.6145778 Me. 261 00:21:04,52.6145778 --> 00:21:07,802.6145778 I shall read my favorite of the bunch I. 262 00:21:08,507.6145778 --> 00:21:16,157.6145778 It's called starlings in winter, chunky and noisy, but with stars in their black feathers. 263 00:21:16,157.6145778 --> 00:21:21,947.6145778 They spring from the telephone wire and instantly they're acrobats in the freezing wind. 264 00:21:22,487.6145778 --> 00:21:28,637.6145778 And now in the theater of air, they swing over buildings dipping and rising. 265 00:21:29,87.6145778 --> 00:21:37,37.6145778 They float like one stippled star that opens, becomes for a moment fragmented, then closes again. 266 00:21:37,937.6145778 --> 00:21:45,167.6145778 And you watch and you try, but you simply can't imagine how they do it with no articulated instruction. 267 00:21:45,542.6145778 --> 00:21:46,652.6145778 No pause. 268 00:21:47,42.6145778 --> 00:21:58,112.6145778 Only the silent, silent confirmation that they are this notable thing, this wheel of many parts that can rise and spin over and over again. 269 00:21:58,262.6145778 --> 00:22:00,182.6145778 Full of gorgeous life. 270 00:22:00,932.6145778 --> 00:22:02,42.6145778 Ah, world. 271 00:22:02,72.6145778 --> 00:22:07,892.6145778 What lessons you prepare for us, even in the leafless winter? Even in the ashy city. 272 00:22:08,852.6145778 --> 00:22:12,482.6145778 I'm thinking now of grief and of getting past it. 273 00:22:13,292.6145778 --> 00:22:15,932.6145778 I feel my boots trying to leave the ground. 274 00:22:16,292.6145778 --> 00:22:18,272.6145778 I feel my heart pumping hard. 275 00:22:18,962.6145778 --> 00:22:22,712.6145778 I want to think again of dangerous and noble things. 276 00:22:23,72.6145778 --> 00:22:25,172.6145778 I want to be light and frolicsome. 277 00:22:25,892.6145778 --> 00:22:31,847.6145778 I want to be improbable, beautiful, and afraid of nothing as though I had wings. 278 00:22:33,407.6145778 --> 00:22:35,282.6145778 I, love that. 279 00:22:35,762.6145778 --> 00:22:57,572.6145778 Beautiful reading Did she just articulate what I feel when I see birds do that? You know, when you see them and they when they're flying in Yeah, exactly How she described it was so beautiful and captured that feeling that I get when I see them. 280 00:22:57,812.6145778 --> 00:23:00,182.6145778 It was perfection, I think. 281 00:23:00,362.6145778 --> 00:23:05,312.6145778 that lovely, um, verse how they do it with no articulated instruction. 282 00:23:05,972.6145778 --> 00:23:06,902.6145778 Yes, no pause. 283 00:23:06,902.6145778 --> 00:23:10,742.6145778 Only the silent confirmation that they are this notable thing. 284 00:23:10,742.6145778 --> 00:23:11,507.6145778 Exactly, Exactly, yes. 285 00:23:12,272.6145778 --> 00:23:12,902.6145778 Wow. 286 00:23:12,932.6145778 --> 00:23:12,962.6145778 I. 287 00:23:13,142.6145778 --> 00:23:13,622.6145778 I know. 288 00:23:14,567.6145778 --> 00:23:21,347.6145778 So this poem becomes something even bigger because she's describing something so amazing. 289 00:23:21,557.6145778 --> 00:23:21,767.6145778 Yeah. 290 00:23:21,767.6145778 --> 00:23:27,287.6145778 And something yet so simple and you do feel like the final stanza. 291 00:23:27,587.6145778 --> 00:23:31,7.6145778 I want to be improbable and afraid of nothing. 292 00:23:31,67.6145778 --> 00:23:34,727.6145778 It's, it's really beautiful and quite joyful. 293 00:23:35,927.6145778 --> 00:23:39,322.6145778 And you've touched that thing that a lot of her poems. 294 00:23:39,797.6145778 --> 00:23:43,697.6145778 Do, and the people have responded, not just us respond to her work. 295 00:23:44,957.6145778 --> 00:23:49,442.6145778 They're like this little, you get to the end, me and go, that's such a lovely gift you've just given Yes. 296 00:23:50,837.6145778 --> 00:23:58,277.6145778 You've not only just encapsulated this experience, which I've had too, but I haven't had the words for it. 297 00:23:58,277.6145778 --> 00:24:03,467.6145778 Then you've been able to do it, but then you've done something else again, and then you've made me feel this thing. 298 00:24:03,707.6145778 --> 00:24:03,767.6145778 Yeah. 299 00:24:03,767.6145778 --> 00:24:05,747.6145778 With these lovely words and you just go, Mary. 300 00:24:05,747.6145778 --> 00:24:05,807.6145778 Yeah. 301 00:24:05,822.6145778 --> 00:24:05,882.6145778 Yeah. 302 00:24:07,322.6145778 --> 00:24:15,362.6145778 You've created all, all the awe, like everything, and you've, you've described it for me and I, I, I just think it's perfect. 303 00:24:16,142.6145778 --> 00:24:25,717.6145778 And one of the great things about it is how well she captures in the early part of the poem how those birds are like starlings at flying groups and how Yeah. 304 00:24:26,97.6145778 --> 00:24:28,262.6145778 And I, I'm like you, Dave. 305 00:24:28,262.6145778 --> 00:24:29,182.6145778 I love that bit. 306 00:24:29,642.6145778 --> 00:24:31,682.6145778 No articulated instruction. 307 00:24:31,697.6145778 --> 00:24:31,787.6145778 Mm-hmm. 308 00:24:32,12.6145778 --> 00:24:32,732.6145778 pause. 309 00:24:33,212.6145778 --> 00:24:40,872.6145778 It's so natural that it doesn't need to be, led or it may be led for, but, but it's, yeah. 310 00:24:41,517.6145778 --> 00:24:48,567.6145778 And she's articulated everything except better what I've thought and felt when I've seen that. 311 00:24:48,687.6145778 --> 00:24:53,982.6145778 It's, it's beautiful and that sense, and you try, you simply can't imagine how they do it. 312 00:24:53,982.6145778 --> 00:25:04,47.6145778 She's Willing to acknowledge she's being overwhelmed by something that she's experiencing in nature, but she's got no idea what the hell is going on. 313 00:25:04,52.6145778 --> 00:25:04,132.6145778 Yep. 314 00:25:04,257.6145778 --> 00:25:04,347.6145778 Mm-hmm. 315 00:25:05,697.6145778 --> 00:25:14,187.6145778 How you know this particular bird is doing this particular thing, but that not knowing is wonderful and or inspiring as well. 316 00:25:14,367.6145778 --> 00:25:18,267.6145778 And then the group of them, that line F full of gorgeous life. 317 00:25:18,267.6145778 --> 00:25:21,597.6145778 So there's the individual and then that big. 318 00:25:22,662.6145778 --> 00:25:26,742.6145778 Flock of them doing such beautiful things together, it's amazing. 319 00:25:27,417.6145778 --> 00:25:30,312.6145778 And when she goes, I feel my boots trying to leave the ground. 320 00:25:30,342.6145778 --> 00:25:30,372.6145778 Mm. 321 00:25:31,257.6145778 --> 00:25:34,902.6145778 Um, you know, um, that sort of sense of wanting to be part of that Yeah. 322 00:25:37,182.6145778 --> 00:25:46,272.6145778 Who doesn't wanna fly? Who doesn't want to do that? Yeah, no, exceptional, I But, uh. 323 00:25:47,952.6145778 --> 00:26:11,502.6145778 yeah, it's, it's always a fascination, isn't it, when you see, when you see that, how they manage it, but how she's then able to go to the next bit and relate it to herself And relate it to the, the, the joy that it brings you and the strength and the power that, you know, I was talking about before, when you are in nature and you actually notice it and see these things Mm. 324 00:26:12,12.6145778 --> 00:26:12,102.6145778 mm-hmm. 325 00:26:12,342.6145778 --> 00:26:18,52.6145778 They are incredibly powerful and you can be brought to another place. 326 00:26:18,702.6145778 --> 00:26:31,630.6745778 Yeah, One of the things I really like about it, 'cause there's, there's a lot of sort of God in nature poets, but she seems to capture really singular events, so it's not like. 327 00:26:32,530.6745778 --> 00:26:35,740.6745778 You know, words worth going, oh, the bleach and green and blah. 328 00:26:35,800.6745778 --> 00:26:47,950.6745778 You know, I'm not sort of slagging Wordsworth, but I am a bit, um, she's able to capture an actual, natural event that's really particular and take something out of it. 329 00:26:48,220.6745778 --> 00:26:54,970.6745778 And I think in many ways, to me, she's superior to a lot of romantics sense. 330 00:26:55,30.6745778 --> 00:27:03,380.6745778 Well, she's not starting with an idea of God or the spiritual she's finding it in that. 331 00:27:04,315.6745778 --> 00:27:06,115.6745778 Yeah, that's a good point. 332 00:27:06,115.6745778 --> 00:27:19,420.6745778 Because they were Very much starting from an, ideology do, how do I, you know, how do we talk about, how do we find language around God and the ineffable and well, let's find it in nature. 333 00:27:19,420.6745778 --> 00:27:19,510.6745778 Mm-hmm. 334 00:27:19,870.6745778 --> 00:27:34,400.6745778 She's going to nature and go, well this is pretty, um, this is awesome and is where her, it's almost like an animism or something she's expressing in her relationship to what she's seeing and finding a truth in like experience. 335 00:27:34,735.6745778 --> 00:27:36,355.6745778 Yeah, no, absolutely. 336 00:27:36,355.6745778 --> 00:27:37,15.6745778 I agree. 337 00:27:37,210.6745778 --> 00:27:40,900.6745778 I also like the simplicity of her language. 338 00:27:41,20.6745778 --> 00:27:47,590.6745778 Again, you know what often appeals to me is I don't have to sit there and try to figure out what she's saying. 339 00:27:47,950.6745778 --> 00:27:53,620.6745778 I don't have to go back and read it again and try to understand it or feel dumb because I don't get it. 340 00:27:53,770.6745778 --> 00:28:00,370.6745778 I can get it the first time I read it and I can really feel it in my chest. 341 00:28:00,370.6745778 --> 00:28:03,430.6745778 And it's just a really special poem. 342 00:28:03,430.6745778 --> 00:28:04,360.6745778 I really liked it. 343 00:28:04,360.6745778 --> 00:28:09,475.6745778 She's she's taken that clarity to a, a whole other level. 344 00:28:09,985.6745778 --> 00:28:10,405.6745778 I reckon. 345 00:28:10,435.6745778 --> 00:28:20,425.6745778 'cause this is, she's so well steeped in, you know, in poetry and poetic form and, you know, all the poets, she's read across everything. 346 00:28:20,485.6745778 --> 00:28:20,605.6745778 Mm-hmm. 347 00:28:21,90.6745778 --> 00:28:23,665.6745778 And this is where she's decided she wants to sit. 348 00:28:23,695.6745778 --> 00:28:29,125.6745778 And just paring down language to just what's necessary. 349 00:28:29,935.6745778 --> 00:28:36,775.6745778 She was saying in that podcast as she's getting older, the poems are getting shorter And really loving just that sort of the four line poem. 350 00:28:37,345.6745778 --> 00:28:37,495.6745778 Yeah. 351 00:28:37,495.6745778 --> 00:28:42,515.6745778 And well, why would you have anything more than that if you've done it in four lines? That's all that needs to be said. 352 00:28:42,575.6745778 --> 00:28:43,950.6745778 And if you can say it like this. 353 00:28:45,65.6745778 --> 00:28:45,635.6745778 Extraordinary. 354 00:28:46,385.6745778 --> 00:28:53,90.6745778 She's got, she is a fantastic non-user of adjectives and adverbs, Mm. 355 00:28:53,90.6745778 --> 00:28:59,735.6745778 Which, it's following your point, just means you just get the literal thing. 356 00:28:59,735.6745778 --> 00:29:04,655.6745778 So, you know, dipping and rising, there's no, there's nothing before them, you Mm-hmm. 357 00:29:05,130.6745778 --> 00:29:08,825.6745778 so it's a very pure sort of message, it? Mm-hmm. 358 00:29:09,215.6745778 --> 00:29:14,750.6745778 Um, and it's not trying to be overtly poetic in that. 359 00:29:15,500.6745778 --> 00:29:16,340.6745778 In that sense. 360 00:29:16,355.6745778 --> 00:29:16,775.6745778 Mm-hmm. 361 00:29:18,995.6745778 --> 00:29:21,995.6745778 I would, just, I would describe that as a perfect poem. 362 00:29:22,385.6745778 --> 00:29:24,155.6745778 Now let's move on to death, Dave. 363 00:29:24,530.6745778 --> 00:29:24,680.6745778 Yay. 364 00:29:28,609.1745778 --> 00:29:29,29.1745778 Yeah. 365 00:29:29,869.1745778 --> 00:29:31,549.1745778 But anyway, over to you, David. 366 00:29:34,728.4825778 --> 00:29:37,111.6125778 This poem is called When Death Comes. 367 00:29:39,48.4825778 --> 00:29:58,458.4825778 When Death Comes, like the Hungry Bear in Autumn when death comes and takes all the bright coins from his purse to buy me and snaps the purse shut when death comes, like the measle PS when death comes like an iceberg between the shoulder blades. 368 00:29:59,538.4825778 --> 00:30:08,118.3825778 I want to step through the door full of curiosity, wondering what is it going to be like? That cottage of darkness. 369 00:30:11,148.4825778 --> 00:30:21,798.4825778 And therefore, I look upon everything as a brotherhood and a sisterhood, and I look upon time as no more than an idea, and I consider eternity. 370 00:30:22,518.4825778 --> 00:30:39,112.0825778 As another possibility, and I think of each life as a flower, as common as a field daisy and as singular and each name a comfortable music in the mouth tending as all music does towards silence. 371 00:30:39,948.4825778 --> 00:30:47,748.4825778 And each body, a lion of courage and something precious to the earth when it's over. 372 00:30:48,588.4825778 --> 00:31:06,447.4825778 I want to say all my life I was a bride, married to amazement, I was the bride groom, taking the world into my arms when it's over, I don't wanna wonder if I have made of my life something particular and real. 373 00:31:07,758.4825778 --> 00:31:12,408.4825778 I don't wanna find myself sighing and frightened or full of argument. 374 00:31:14,148.4825778 --> 00:31:17,923.4825778 I don't want to end up simply having visited this world. 375 00:31:21,738.4825778 --> 00:31:23,628.4825778 Again, Thanks, Mary. 376 00:31:25,653.4825778 --> 00:31:30,423.4825778 There's lots in that, isn't it? I, I'm really fascinated by lots of it. 377 00:31:30,423.4825778 --> 00:31:44,488.4825778 But at the start, the notion that, death comes to buy her, isn't that like the, Stig thing? to go through the stream and pay the, uh, go pay the ferryman. 378 00:31:46,828.4825778 --> 00:31:49,495.4825778 They dislike that, isn't it? Who is he called? The fairy man. 379 00:31:50,338.4825778 --> 00:31:53,668.4825778 Uh, that's why I sang the song because I couldn't Yeah, I've forgotten. 380 00:31:53,668.4825778 --> 00:31:54,628.4825778 It's the river sticks. 381 00:31:54,628.4825778 --> 00:31:57,988.4825778 He's the, oh, you know that, dude, you gotta have money. 382 00:31:58,858.4825778 --> 00:31:59,218.4825778 Yeah. 383 00:31:59,218.4825778 --> 00:32:00,28.4825778 I hadn't thought of that. 384 00:32:00,88.4825778 --> 00:32:02,718.4825778 But, the other thing I, I love is the concluding line. 385 00:32:02,748.4825778 --> 00:32:05,579.4825778 I don't wanna end up simply having visited this world. 386 00:32:06,308.4825778 --> 00:32:22,148.4825778 And that seems to me like that sort of, notion you get in some religions, I'll just say Christianity for example, that this world is really just a transitory point for what's going to happen next, which is, eternal heaven or eternal hell. 387 00:32:22,568.4825778 --> 00:32:26,668.4825778 And, I like the way she's, she just says that I just don't want this to be a visit. 388 00:32:26,728.4825778 --> 00:32:34,868.4825778 I just, this is, has value in and of itself and I think that's, really good. 389 00:32:34,868.4825778 --> 00:32:35,798.4825778 And I love that line. 390 00:32:35,798.4825778 --> 00:32:37,302.4825778 I was a bride married to amazement. 391 00:32:37,928.4825778 --> 00:32:38,828.4825778 That's gorgeous. 392 00:32:39,98.4825778 --> 00:32:40,893.4825778 taking the whole world into my arms. 393 00:32:41,753.4825778 --> 00:32:47,621.4825778 That's just a fabulous sort of image of taking hold of guess, Mm-hmm. 394 00:32:49,163.4825778 --> 00:33:02,203.4825778 those small wonders that we've seen in particularly in the Starlings poem, that she thinks that that's sufficient, that you don't need to have a more lofty within it. 395 00:33:02,263.4825778 --> 00:33:10,138.4825778 And the Dark Cottage, I think Cottage of Darkness of my favorite lines of the poem. 396 00:33:10,198.4825778 --> 00:33:10,438.4825778 Yeah. 397 00:33:10,558.4825778 --> 00:33:12,598.4825778 she wants to approach it with curiosity. 398 00:33:12,598.4825778 --> 00:33:18,483.4825778 Not with dread, not with, a sense that everything's over, but no, I I'd like to be curious. 399 00:33:18,803.4825778 --> 00:33:19,193.4825778 Yeah. 400 00:33:19,628.4825778 --> 00:33:27,893.4825778 I'd like to be curious about whatever happens you know, transition or And I, and I, oh, I'm sorry. 401 00:33:27,938.4825778 --> 00:33:29,318.4825778 terrifying as well. 402 00:33:29,318.4825778 --> 00:33:32,918.4825778 That cottage of darkness, the darkness part could be Mm. 403 00:33:33,158.4825778 --> 00:33:33,548.4825778 Mm, yeah. 404 00:33:33,698.4825778 --> 00:33:34,88.4825778 Yeah. 405 00:33:34,958.4825778 --> 00:33:48,98.4825778 But, but what's lovely about this poem about death that could very well be read at lots of funerals, I imagine, is that you don't have to be huge. 406 00:33:48,743.4825778 --> 00:33:54,833.4825778 You don't have to live a big life because there's value in every element. 407 00:33:55,73.4825778 --> 00:33:55,223.4825778 Mm-hmm. 408 00:33:55,463.4825778 --> 00:34:00,803.4825778 That, and I love how she talks about that with the, you know, the, the daisies in the field, was it? Yeah. 409 00:34:01,103.4825778 --> 00:34:05,783.4825778 The flowers that are common, but each daisy and are a singular. 410 00:34:05,783.4825778 --> 00:34:05,843.4825778 Yeah. 411 00:34:05,993.4825778 --> 00:34:08,513.4825778 So it's taking all of the lives. 412 00:34:08,513.4825778 --> 00:34:12,503.4825778 That all very common, but there. 413 00:34:13,358.4825778 --> 00:34:15,158.4825778 Valuable in themselves. 414 00:34:15,158.4825778 --> 00:34:21,368.4825778 And you don't have to be the first to cry Mount Everest or you know, be the prime minister of Australia. 415 00:34:21,428.4825778 --> 00:34:25,940.4825778 Your life is just as valuable and just as wonderful. 416 00:34:28,178.4825778 --> 00:34:31,528.4825778 And that notion that each body is of something precious to the earth. 417 00:34:31,628.4825778 --> 00:34:31,718.4825778 Mm-hmm. 418 00:34:32,258.4825778 --> 00:34:47,708.4825778 So that it's reciprocated, it's not, once again, you are, you know, just buried in the earth and that relationship between the natural world and you ceases, you're still precious the world in which you live. 419 00:34:47,978.4825778 --> 00:34:50,933.4825778 That, reciprocal nature. 420 00:34:52,223.4825778 --> 00:34:56,843.4825778 Is really interesting 'cause a lot of, you get a lot of poems that are sort of, oh my God, I'm gonna die. 421 00:34:56,843.4825778 --> 00:35:01,253.4825778 And know, rage, rage against the all of that sort of thing. 422 00:35:01,673.4825778 --> 00:35:03,773.4825778 And this is a really different approach. 423 00:35:03,773.4825778 --> 00:35:05,243.4825778 This is an approach of curiosity. 424 00:35:05,243.4825778 --> 00:35:10,763.4825778 This is an approach of yeah, I'm happy with what I've done and I don't just wanna be a visitor. 425 00:35:10,763.4825778 --> 00:35:16,283.4825778 I don't want this to be a train stop I think it's really quite unique. 426 00:35:16,343.4825778 --> 00:35:19,433.4825778 I can't think of another death poem comes at it. 427 00:35:19,478.4825778 --> 00:35:19,628.4825778 In that. 428 00:35:22,223.4825778 --> 00:35:25,553.4825778 never heard of somebody say they want to go to it with curiosity. 429 00:35:25,613.4825778 --> 00:35:27,33.4825778 I, I Mm-hmm. 430 00:35:27,233.4825778 --> 00:35:27,523.4825778 Yeah. 431 00:35:27,853.4825778 --> 00:35:31,283.4825778 She's, she's not racing towards it, but she's just going, yep. 432 00:35:31,603.4825778 --> 00:35:31,763.4825778 Whatever. 433 00:35:32,463.4825778 --> 00:35:33,323.4825778 As a, Yeah. 434 00:35:33,323.4825778 --> 00:35:35,503.4825778 I'm interested to see Yeah. 435 00:35:37,283.4825778 --> 00:35:49,208.4825778 think it's a fabulous way to end, Not that she would think it was just a, you know, another interaction with the natural think. 436 00:35:49,463.4825778 --> 00:35:49,883.4825778 Yeah. 437 00:35:50,368.4825778 --> 00:36:07,306.4825778 And I see with the, the reciprocal nature of, the new ways of, of actually having burials now where you can be turned into compost trees grow from and those sorts of things, which is a really sort of lovely feeling that I get from this. 438 00:36:08,538.4825778 --> 00:36:08,958.4825778 Yeah. 439 00:36:10,638.4825778 --> 00:36:10,998.4825778 Yeah. 440 00:36:10,998.4825778 --> 00:36:15,888.4825778 I get from that line too, that it's not just about, you know, the, the body. 441 00:36:17,943.4825778 --> 00:36:20,43.4825778 After death being a value to the earth. 442 00:36:20,43.4825778 --> 00:36:24,153.4825778 But it's, but before, you know, all, all through the person's life. 443 00:36:24,153.4825778 --> 00:36:29,343.4825778 And also after that, that preciousness is continues. 444 00:36:29,343.4825778 --> 00:36:29,703.4825778 Yes. 445 00:36:30,363.4825778 --> 00:36:33,63.4825778 That everything is important to every, every other thing. 446 00:36:34,533.4825778 --> 00:36:37,743.4825778 And I think she, she gets to that, doesn't she? With the brotherhood, sisterhood. 447 00:36:37,743.4825778 --> 00:36:48,558.4825778 It's like, it's extended to not just people I don't world, the starlings, the, trees, the wind, Mm-hmm. 448 00:36:49,293.4825778 --> 00:36:55,998.4825778 It's a brotherhood It's, sort of really, unifying, isn't Mm-hmm. 449 00:36:55,998.4825778 --> 00:36:58,788.4825778 And generous as well. 450 00:36:59,178.4825778 --> 00:37:04,88.4825778 When I read it, I felt like it was really big, but also really personal Mm-hmm. 451 00:37:05,88.4825778 --> 00:37:08,372.4825778 and I really like that Yeah. 452 00:37:09,768.4825778 --> 00:37:15,828.4825778 And that line about comfortable music in the mouth tending as all music does, towards silence. 453 00:37:16,188.4825778 --> 00:37:26,33.4825778 I think that's another really powerful image, isn't it? Because you get all, you know, the tempo and the sound of music. 454 00:37:26,33.4825778 --> 00:37:29,533.4825778 And it always re, it always resolves to silence. 455 00:37:30,548.4825778 --> 00:37:33,8.4825778 And she seems to play that in. 456 00:37:33,8.4825778 --> 00:37:40,505.1492445 I think it's quite a powerful sort of image, and, the silence within the music as well That's right. 457 00:37:40,510.1492445 --> 00:37:40,610.1492445 Yeah. 458 00:37:40,715.1492445 --> 00:37:41,855.1492445 Not just when it ends. 459 00:37:41,855.1492445 --> 00:37:42,215.1492445 Yeah. 460 00:37:42,215.1492445 --> 00:37:42,275.1492445 Yeah. 461 00:37:44,605.0892445 --> 00:37:49,305.0892445 It's a lovely juxtaposition between music and the names of Mm-hmm. 462 00:37:49,435.0892445 --> 00:37:49,675.0892445 too. 463 00:37:52,855.0892445 --> 00:37:59,590.0892445 So what do we think of Mary Oliver? what's our, our takeaway outta 10? I'm giving her 11. 464 00:38:00,531.2192445 --> 00:38:09,501.2192445 I think she's unique in a, in a way I really like, and I'm really glad that she's on a year 12 curriculum for English. 465 00:38:10,161.2192445 --> 00:38:12,311.2192445 Well, I was encouraged, I think. 466 00:38:13,16.2192445 --> 00:38:20,526.2192445 What we've talked about before is Peter often sends us some poems and we, come together and discuss them. 467 00:38:20,736.2192445 --> 00:38:29,916.2192445 And sometimes I read the poems and that encourages me to explore other work and other times it doesn't. 468 00:38:30,306.2192445 --> 00:38:44,76.2192445 But with Mary Oliver, I, again, loved the work and really wanna continue to explore her other poetry because I think that it's been an absolute joy meeting her. 469 00:38:44,106.2192445 --> 00:38:44,961.2192445 Never heard of her before. 470 00:38:44,961.2192445 --> 00:38:45,321.2192445 Mm-hmm. 471 00:38:45,756.2192445 --> 00:38:50,796.2192445 I wasn't aware that she even existed, and I can't wait to read more of her work. 472 00:38:50,796.2192445 --> 00:38:58,806.2192445 I think that it's beautiful and simple and complex and it just fills your heart. 473 00:38:59,136.2192445 --> 00:38:59,856.2192445 It's lovely. 474 00:39:00,70.1192445 --> 00:39:00,150.1192445 Hmm. 475 00:39:01,891.1192445 --> 00:39:03,415.1192445 done Mary Oliver. 476 00:39:03,475.1192445 --> 00:39:03,775.1192445 Pete. 477 00:39:03,775.1192445 --> 00:39:05,965.1192445 Alright, Alright, well that's, no, that's okay. 478 00:39:05,965.1192445 --> 00:39:07,285.1192445 So now we get back to the quiz. 479 00:39:07,285.1192445 --> 00:39:08,280.1192445 Of Oh yeah. 480 00:39:08,620.1192445 --> 00:39:08,840.1192445 Oof. 481 00:39:08,905.1192445 --> 00:39:09,449.1192445 quiz. 482 00:39:10,135.1192445 --> 00:39:16,436.1192445 So, you know, 10 poets, 10 all right, we go on with Shakespeare, Shakespeare, correct. 483 00:39:16,820.1192445 --> 00:39:19,346.1192445 Um, Blake Incorrect. 484 00:39:19,370.1192445 --> 00:39:20,870.1192445 No, No, not there. 485 00:39:21,890.1192445 --> 00:39:23,600.1192445 Ridge not there. 486 00:39:24,500.1192445 --> 00:39:25,340.1192445 Wordsworth. 487 00:39:25,430.1192445 --> 00:39:25,891.1192445 Yes. 488 00:39:26,940.1192445 --> 00:39:27,50.1192445 Elliot. 489 00:39:27,805.1192445 --> 00:39:29,573.1192445 Elliot, correct. 490 00:39:32,365.1192445 --> 00:39:33,96.4292445 Done. 491 00:39:33,251.4292445 --> 00:39:33,851.4292445 Done. 492 00:39:34,781.4292445 --> 00:39:34,811.4292445 Oh. 493 00:39:34,841.4292445 --> 00:39:36,131.4292445 surprising omission. 494 00:39:36,761.4292445 --> 00:39:38,156.4292445 Um, thinking right back. 495 00:39:38,156.4292445 --> 00:39:38,441.4292445 Right back. 496 00:39:38,501.4292445 --> 00:39:39,401.4292445 Right back. 497 00:39:39,401.4292445 --> 00:39:40,316.4292445 oh, Oh, Chaucer. 498 00:39:40,846.4292445 --> 00:39:43,181.4292445 Chaucerr no further back than choa. 499 00:39:43,241.4292445 --> 00:39:43,691.4292445 God. 500 00:39:45,911.4292445 --> 00:39:46,961.4292445 God didn't make it. 501 00:39:47,66.4292445 --> 00:39:54,926.4292445 A poet we love, we mention frequently in our podcast, Emily Dickinson, Emily Dickinson Emily Dickinson, she, she made it made the list. 502 00:39:54,986.4292445 --> 00:39:57,506.4292445 There say two, there's two women on this list. 503 00:39:57,521.4292445 --> 00:39:58,421.4292445 There's two women. 504 00:39:58,511.4292445 --> 00:39:59,51.4292445 Yes. 505 00:39:59,301.4292445 --> 00:40:00,141.4292445 Elizabeth Bishop. 506 00:40:00,366.4292445 --> 00:40:01,326.4292445 No, no. 507 00:40:01,326.4292445 --> 00:40:05,226.4292445 I think we've looked at a poem by this female poet. 508 00:40:05,496.4292445 --> 00:40:07,356.4292445 It's a particular favorite of yours. 509 00:40:07,356.4292445 --> 00:40:11,76.4292445 Colleen, American poet. 510 00:40:11,76.4292445 --> 00:40:13,116.4292445 The youngest of any of the poets here. 511 00:40:13,956.4292445 --> 00:40:14,556.4292445 By far. 512 00:40:15,666.4292445 --> 00:40:17,166.4292445 wrote in the 20th century. 513 00:40:17,665.1292445 --> 00:40:19,151.4292445 Oh, um, Plath. 514 00:40:20,538.8692445 --> 00:40:29,148.8692445 if you went right back and someone who wrote two epic poems right back in ancient Greece. 515 00:40:31,728.8692445 --> 00:40:32,538.8692445 Homer. 516 00:40:33,138.8692445 --> 00:40:33,358.8692445 Wow. 517 00:40:33,588.8692445 --> 00:40:33,648.8692445 Wow. 518 00:40:33,708.8692445 --> 00:40:42,438.8692445 And another part we've mentioned in this podcast, this is a male poet we mentioned walking down the road. 519 00:40:46,263.8692445 --> 00:40:46,563.8692445 Dante. 520 00:40:47,13.8692445 --> 00:40:47,313.8692445 Dante. 521 00:40:47,563.8692445 --> 00:40:48,128.8692445 Oh, Yay. 522 00:40:49,762.9292445 --> 00:40:53,222.9292445 How many we got now? Um, we've only got one, two. 523 00:40:54,232.9292445 --> 00:40:56,332.9292445 Three, four to go. 524 00:40:56,332.9292445 --> 00:40:56,362.9292445 Ooh. 525 00:40:57,352.9292445 --> 00:41:01,842.9292445 Now there's, there's, I said there's a, there's an overrepresentation of English parts. 526 00:41:01,892.9292445 --> 00:41:03,937.9292445 There's two more English romantic parts. 527 00:41:03,937.9292445 --> 00:41:09,157.9292445 And one, now what's the one that that, died of? Um, tuberculosis Beating bubbles. 528 00:41:09,157.9292445 --> 00:41:10,417.9292445 Winking at the brim. 529 00:41:10,822.9292445 --> 00:41:11,542.9292445 Um, yeah. 530 00:41:12,352.9292445 --> 00:41:12,982.9292445 Be Byron. 531 00:41:12,982.9292445 --> 00:41:14,622.9292445 Oh, no, no, no, no. 532 00:41:15,247.9292445 --> 00:41:18,457.9292445 Um, Dan, Os O to a Nightingale. 533 00:41:18,457.9292445 --> 00:41:21,157.9292445 You know, one? Yeah, that guy. 534 00:41:21,217.9292445 --> 00:41:21,697.9292445 Yeah. 535 00:41:21,697.9292445 --> 00:41:22,597.9292445 Young died young. 536 00:41:24,197.9292445 --> 00:41:24,917.9292445 Gimme the initials. 537 00:41:24,917.9292445 --> 00:41:26,477.9292445 I don't want, oh, don't tell me his name. 538 00:41:26,477.9292445 --> 00:41:28,11.9292445 I wanted you to give me the, yeah, to give the, yeah. 539 00:41:28,292.9292445 --> 00:41:31,172.9292445 and then Keith's mate, who was Keith's mate. 540 00:41:31,472.9292445 --> 00:41:32,912.9292445 Not Byron, but the other one. 541 00:41:32,912.9292445 --> 00:41:33,422.9292445 Shelly. 542 00:41:33,512.9292445 --> 00:41:35,95.4892445 Shelly go. 543 00:41:35,530.4892445 --> 00:41:36,760.4892445 Oh, we've got Yates. 544 00:41:36,760.4892445 --> 00:41:37,780.4892445 But yeah, sorry. 545 00:41:38,290.4892445 --> 00:41:39,220.4892445 Yates was the other one. 546 00:41:39,340.4892445 --> 00:41:40,885.4892445 Very conservative was easy. 547 00:41:41,535.4892445 --> 00:41:43,385.4892445 None of them are bad poets. 548 00:41:43,575.4892445 --> 00:41:45,150.4892445 None None of them are bad poets. 549 00:41:45,210.4892445 --> 00:41:55,715.4892445 Can you run through the list it, it is Shakespeare, Homer, Dante, Emily Dickinson, Kate, Shelly, Wordsworth, Yates, TS Elliot, and Sylvia Plath. 550 00:41:56,480.4892445 --> 00:41:57,260.4892445 So there it is. 551 00:41:57,260.4892445 --> 00:41:59,330.4892445 Poetry dot com's pick. 552 00:41:59,330.4892445 --> 00:42:07,310.4892445 These are the greatest of all time I might add, but, uh, yeah, five continents ignored but we would recommend poetry.com 553 00:42:07,310.4892445 --> 00:42:08,540.4892445 is a nice site to go to. 554 00:42:08,540.4892445 --> 00:42:08,735.4892445 We to. 555 00:42:08,735.4892445 --> 00:42:09,485.4892445 poetry.com 556 00:42:09,485.4892445 --> 00:42:10,325.4892445 is a really too much. 557 00:42:10,715.4892445 --> 00:42:11,675.4892445 I'm not, no. 558 00:42:11,675.4892445 --> 00:42:21,340.4892445 I think they've probably maybe done other versions of this, but uh, I thought Pretty funny though, using, You're glad glad we got there. 559 00:42:21,580.4892445 --> 00:42:22,60.4892445 Yeah. 560 00:42:36,928.9168338 --> 00:42:42,298.9168338 Thank you for listening we hope you find Mary Oliver as interesting as we did. 561 00:42:42,358.9168338 --> 00:42:44,68.9168338 We think she's a fabulous poet. 562 00:42:44,848.9168338 --> 00:42:46,258.9168338 Now we have a couple of announcements. 563 00:42:46,258.9168338 --> 00:42:59,418.9168338 The first is if you live in the Hobson Bay area and you would love to come to a poetry group, then please come to the Louis Joel Poetry Group, which, is on Fridays at 11 o'clock at the Louis Joel Arts and Entertainment Center. 564 00:42:59,838.9168338 --> 00:43:04,428.9168338 With the next meeting occurring on the 16th of May, we'd really love to see you. 565 00:43:05,148.9168338 --> 00:43:14,658.9168338 We'd also like to direct you to the Louis Joel Autumn program, which just has a plethora of exhibitions, workshops, and so much more. 566 00:43:15,18.9168338 --> 00:43:24,558.9168338 So if you were to type in search Louis Joel Arts and Entertainment Center, you'll be able to see the full breadth of that wonderful program. 567 00:43:25,368.9168338 --> 00:43:38,58.9168338 We didn't have a Hobson's choice with this first episode for 2025, but we intend to bring it back and this year we're gonna focus at least initially on poems you'd learnt as a child or you learnt at school. 568 00:43:38,418.9168338 --> 00:43:41,718.9168338 Uh, we've already recorded some interviews, but we'd love some more. 569 00:43:41,988.9168338 --> 00:43:46,128.9168338 So if you'd like to participate, email us on LJAC. 570 00:43:46,128.9168338 --> 00:43:48,918.9168338 Poetry, all lowercase, all one word. 571 00:43:48,963.9168338 --> 00:43:50,913.9168338 At gmail.com. 572 00:43:51,393.9168338 --> 00:44:01,203.9168338 And on that note, it's, it's pretty interesting because right at this very moment, the New York Times has just started, a learn a poem with us this week. 573 00:44:01,413.9168338 --> 00:44:02,733.9168338 Keep it for a lifetime. 574 00:44:02,733.9168338 --> 00:44:05,488.9168338 It says the poem is very beautiful. 575 00:44:06,258.9168338 --> 00:44:08,568.9168338 It's REO by Edna St. 576 00:44:08,568.9168338 --> 00:44:09,828.9168338 Vincent Malay. 577 00:44:10,158.9168338 --> 00:44:16,168.9168338 And, each day it goes through, different parts of how to learn to memorize the poem. 578 00:44:16,168.9168338 --> 00:44:24,258.9168338 And I really like the thought that they say poems, once we're defined as a memorable speech. 579 00:44:24,528.9168338 --> 00:44:30,258.9168338 And because of all of the things that are, you know, in our spaces and in our minds at the moment. 580 00:44:30,303.9168338 --> 00:44:46,308.9168338 A, poem that you have at your fingertips that you can just recite under your breath or in your head, can soothe your nerves, drive away the noise of everyday life, or grant a moment of simple happiness and. 581 00:44:46,653.9168338 --> 00:44:47,673.9168338 We are all for that. 582 00:44:47,673.9168338 --> 00:44:56,253.9168338 So, you might wanna have a look at that and if you're interested in being interviewed about that as a poem, that you've learned, we would love to talk to you about that as well. 583 00:44:56,673.9168338 --> 00:44:59,703.9168338 And they have a number of people, don't they, that read that poem each day. 584 00:44:59,703.9168338 --> 00:45:03,358.9168338 Like people like the poet who wrote it, but also people like Ethan Hawke. 585 00:45:03,543.9168338 --> 00:45:07,153.9168338 And, after little while you get, uh, a number of versions. 586 00:45:07,213.9168338 --> 00:45:07,603.9168338 Oh yeah. 587 00:45:07,603.9168338 --> 00:45:12,103.9168338 There's like about 10 different people as well as Anne Lemon, who's the US poet. 588 00:45:12,103.9168338 --> 00:45:12,853.9168338 Lower it. 589 00:45:13,243.9168338 --> 00:45:15,943.9168338 There's, um, Anne Patchett is one of my favorite writers. 590 00:45:15,943.9168338 --> 00:45:19,63.9168338 There's, there's so many of them and they read it in all different ways. 591 00:45:19,63.9168338 --> 00:45:23,833.9168338 It's wonderful to hear it, so I'd encourage you Google, New York Times Poetry Challenge. 592 00:45:24,283.9168338 --> 00:45:25,183.9168338 Well, thank you. 593 00:45:25,483.9168338 --> 00:45:25,723.9168338 Okay. 594 00:45:25,723.9168338 --> 00:45:26,683.9168338 See you next time. 595 00:45:26,683.9168338 --> 00:45:27,133.9168338 Bye.