A Follow-Up On Ofc. Marquette's Case And Murder Charges Against Ofc. Christopher Schurr

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.

(00:13):
I can feel that you're going to feel that I'm going to talk fast.
You're going to talk real fast. You're going to try to get all the information
out as quick as possible.
Yeah. Well, I do have that. I do have that problem because I get I get motivated.
But I think you're worried about the time. I don't want you to worry about the
time. I'm always worried about the time. We're going to give good content.
Good content. We're going to crush it, dude. I think you pull that mic in closer.

(00:35):
Dude, relax. I'm going to take off my sweatshirt here in a second.
Yeah, because it gets hot down here. Yeah, especially when we get when we start talking.
I start bloviating. How's that word? I like it. Glowgate's good, dude.
All right. Sweatshirts off. We ready? Dude, you've been working out. I saw abs.
Yeah, you saw. Some belly fat is what you saw. Some belly fat,

(00:56):
dude. No, you've been doing stuff, right? Dropping a little bit of weight, yeah. Trying.
Yeah, man. Oh, man. Dude, good morning, Anthony. Good morning.
This is episode 18 of Low Expectations. Yeah, dude. It's early.
It is early. We are recording this early. It's so early. On my way over to the
studio, people were yard-sailing.

(01:16):
Is that like a thing throughout the country, or is it just like a Lancaster County thing?
It's a very, very Lancaster County thing. Dude, it's the weirdest thing.
People selling their junk and other people wanting their junk.
Have you ever done yard-sailing?
Yeah. I mean, have you ever had a yard sale? Yeah, I don't anymore.
It's a pain. It's not worth it to me anymore.
Having a yard sale is wild because people— It's four weeks of prep.

(01:39):
Well, yeah, you prep everything. Yeah. You can put a sign up.
You can put 10 signs up to say yard sale, 7 a.m. to question marks. Yeah.
People will be there at 6 a.m. Yeah, you can't do it. Hawking.
Yeah. And you're like, yo, we're not even set up yet. We're not ready.
We're not open for business. But then you're just selling it.
You're just selling stuff.
Our neighborhood had a yard sale, a neighborhood yard sale. Yeah. One year.

(02:00):
We were not having a yard sale. We didn't have anything in the driveway.
Nothing. This guy just walks into our garage. Yeah.
I'm like, what are you doing? Did you did you pull your gun out and pointed
at him and like confront him and be like, what are you doing here now?
Yeah, well now normal human being listen now that I'm telling that story I'm

(02:21):
wondering maybe we did have some stuff out in the driveway You know to sell
but he just like walks in our garage and starts looking at stuff in our garage
I'm like, we're not selling anything in the garage buddy. I.
It's it's a yard sale like so anything in
our driveway or in the yard it's a driveway sale not
a garage check it out like tools and i'm like

(02:41):
bro hey man can i get your bikes can
i get your motorcycle and people have no shame no fear
like they just think if you have your garage door
open you have a yard sale they can wander into your i know but your garage is
part of your house like you don't get to just walk into my garage yeah yeah
i don't know i mean you can tell if something stuff's for sale in your garage

(03:01):
right you have tables set up or maybe you have a rack with clothes right for
sale not like fishing rods on the side you know like all your tools and your tool bench.
That's wild dude yeah yard sales are a special thing
you can uh you can
make out though yeah but it's not like think about it yeah
yeah you can find some good stuff right yeah but i don't
i don't have the time for that yeah ain't nobody got time for

(03:24):
that no no especially toward the end of the yard
sale year right because then you're
like the stuff's already gone so you have to let them acquire
it over the winter and then the spring is when
you get the good stuff because everybody wants to like spring clean right that's
when you that's when i think you get the good i don't know if that's true right
especially us we have no time for yard selling this is this is what we're doing

(03:46):
this is a busy season we're uh well we're recording well because we're dedicated
after We got to get content out.
Yeah. We got to please the people. Which episode is this? People pleasers.
This is episode 18. 18. Dude, that's a good number.
I can't wait to hit 20. Why? What's going to happen? It just feels like a good number.

(04:06):
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. We keep clipping along here.
This episode, I'm pretty excited about this episode. We're going to be talking
about another officer who was charged with murder, Officer Schur.
Uh we'll be talking about that case and we're gonna we're gonna go back and do like a follow-up.
A little bit of a follow-up too to officer marquette and his

(04:29):
charges because uh we got some we got some feedback which is what we've asked
for yeah we've asked for this dude reached out yeah i'm i'm assuming it's a
dude based on his name i'm not gonna put him out there no what is it dude well
that is true what is a man what is a woman what nobody knows so i probably I
just misgendered this person either way.
I'm not going to put their name out there, but they, they, we appreciate the feedback. We do.

(04:52):
We want the, we want the pushback. And initially, and here's the thing.
Initially, when this person reached out to me, I think it was a dude based on the name.
Initially, when he reached out to me, I had, I had another person DM me on like
Facebook or something like that. And was like, you don't have all the facts, but.
Reach out to me some random person i'm like sorry i

(05:14):
that's not how i operate like right you don't just tell me
order me around and tell me what to do you ain't my boss like there
was no there was no it was just like you don't know the facts right well okay
put some effort into your response and and tell me what i supposedly don't know
yeah we put in some effort right well more you i just i just i blow the eight
blow the eight that's such a great word so so yeah i didn't respond to that person.

(05:38):
But this guy actually sent us an email off our website, contacted me via email,
and said, hey, you don't know all the facts, and laid out a couple of his concerns. So I responded.
I was like, I responded to his email, and then he wrote back a lengthy email.
Basically, his first email said, the cops broke the law.

(06:02):
The cops in the Officer Marquette case, Officer Marquette and the other cops
involved broke the law. And this is the one, the tow truck driver went to repo a car.
The guy came out with a gun. He left. He calls the police.
The police show up, kind of hide themselves while he's doing his business.
And then he comes out again with a gun and Officer Marquette shoots him. Right.

(06:25):
And so we discussed that case on episode 16, I believe it was just a couple episodes ago.
And, you know, put out there that this was a justified shooting.
Officer Marquette acted in a righteous way based on the information he had.
That's what we believe based on what we know about the case.
And so this guy reached out to me and emailed me and said, hey,

(06:47):
you know, they broke the law.
And, you know, they, yeah, these officers broke the law. And therefore,
you know, Officer Marquette should be charged with murder.
So I just responded back. I appreciate you reaching out.
What law did he break? So then he responded with an email with a whole list of things.
And I responded personally to that email as well with kindness.

(07:09):
You know, listen, you know.
We, regardless of what you think about this case or any other case we discuss,
or regardless of what you believe or think about, you know, anything that we
discuss on this podcast, we as believers are called to respond with kindness.
So I responded with kindness. I told him, Hey, I appreciate you reaching out.

(07:29):
And he was actually appreciative. In one of his emails, he actually said,
you know, I really appreciate that you actually took the time to talk to me
and stuff. And I'm like, sure, absolutely.
Like I, we're not above correction.
Yeah. And in reality, like we
should be able to talk about things without getting angry at each other.
It's the old way to debate and, and, you know, have like this discourse when

(07:52):
we disagree that doesn't delve into just name calling and, you know,
canceling and all this craziness.
So I tried to, you know, model that in my response to him.
And, and he was, he was decent in his responses. He wasn't cursing at me or
name calling or anything like that.
So yeah, I mean, here's the thing. And here's one thing I told him.

(08:14):
Some of the things he put out there in his response, and we're going to look
at his response and talk about some of the things he brought up.
They could be true. And from the very beginning, every time you and I talk about
a case like this, Gary, we say based on what we know right now.
Right. And we don't have discovery. We don't have all the reports.

(08:35):
We don't have all the facts.
And that stuff shouldn't isn't put out there. Right. And all the police reports.
It shouldn't be put out there, you know, because there's going to be a trial
jury because there's going to be a trial.
So the jury, you know, if this case goes before a jury and I and I hope it doesn't,
I hope it gets thrown out before then. But if this case goes before a jury,
the jury will have all the facts of the case.

(08:56):
We won't. Or at least what the court lets them hear. Right. And we trust that
they will have all the facts.
Yeah. We hope that they will have all the facts and be able to arrive at a logical
decision that's filled with wisdom and discernment.
Right. Now, saying that, we saw the George Floyd case and we saw what was allowed
in that case and what wasn't allowed in that case.

(09:16):
And then that documentary came out the fall
minneapolis where a lot more was exposed and you
have to wonder you know you you
hope will it be a just trial will it be a railroad
job or will it be a a just trial right but gary and i you would you would agree
with me we're not above correction we're not above mistakes dude i get wrong

(09:37):
i'm wrong almost all the time your wife lets you know yeah yeah yeah well everybody
in my life lets me know what i'm wrong yeah so you know That's the thing.
We understand that we have experience.
We've been involved in similar type things ourselves.
And based on what we look at and what we know at the time that we do these episodes,

(10:04):
we're giving our professional opinion.
And basically what we look at is videos, press releases, and like news media posts.
That's basically what we're able to look at. Right. You know what I mean?
Like we don't have access to all of this stuff.
Right. And we also, I mean, I think we also believe in showing deference to

(10:25):
law enforcement and not showing deference to the criminal, which is kind of
like where our culture is at right now, in my opinion, generally.
Or at least the loud voice shows much more deference toward the criminal versus
the law enforcement officer. Right.
So all that being said, we wanted to do a quick follow-up here.

(10:49):
So this guy reached out and he basically... What are some of the issues?
Some of the issues. The first issue he brought up was...
He brings up several points and rumors in this email because,
you know, several of them I've seen floating around on social media.
And I think maybe some of them we talked about on in episode 16.

(11:10):
Some of them I didn't even bring up because, again, they're rumors there.
You know, there's nothing to back these up.
But what if it comes out in trial? That is true. Then obviously.
Correct. Yeah, correct. So
so he brought up some stuff that I had already seen, was already aware of.
And, you know, again, I don't know the validity to it. And the mystery, man. Tell us something.

(11:31):
I'm getting there. All right. The first one, he claimed that the officers violated
an alleged city ordinance that stated the police could not assist with a repo.
So I looked into this. Okay. So that's interesting.
So hold on. So there's a city ordinance, allegedly, that police aren't allowed
to assist with repossessions of cars, right? A repossession of a vehicle. That's simple.

(11:55):
That makes sense. Right. There's not a whole lot to talk about there,
right? If the police aren't allowed to assist in that, then they're not allowed to assist in that.
I personally have never heard of an ordinance in a jurisdiction where there's
a specific thing like the police cannot engage in repossessing another vehicle.
But I did look into it.
As far as I can tell, and I'm unsure, again, this happened in Decatur, Alabama.

(12:19):
I'm unsure if Decatur ever had an ordinance like that at the time of the shooting.
Okay. They have since the shooting this year, I believe, either 2023 or no, no, I'm sorry, 2024.
They did create an ordinance for that.
So it appears they didn't have an ordinance at the time of the shooting.

(12:41):
Since the shooting, they've now created an ordinance for that.
And I'll say this, even if there was an ordinance that existed at the time of
the shooting that I couldn't find or locate, it doesn't matter because a crime was reported.
So as soon as someone reports a crime, the police aren't responding to repo a car.

(13:06):
They're responding to protect and possibly investigate a crime.
Again, this is this is that area.
We don't know what what happened between the 911 call, the plan made and the
time the officers went out there.
But but there was a crime reported.
That's how the police even knew about. out right and we're saying that because the

(13:27):
first time the repo guy went out there the homeowner
the car owner came out with a gun brandished it pointed it
at the guy correct that's what he's reporting correct that's
what he's reporting to the police yeah and problems
with that anthony is that the repo guy
comes back so like i just like i'm
not i'm not saying the shooting's not justified i'm saying

(13:48):
that that that's a concern right if there
was an ordinance even if there if there was an ordinance it's
it's just bad tactics like why are you bringing the victim
back to the scene before you make sure
that the scene is safe yeah i i i hear it's just it's just a little bit yeah
i i think i think as this case as in every other case and we'll talk with this

(14:11):
case with with officer sure as well here in a little bit you can always look
at the tactics and the things done to,
and any officer worth their salt, and I've said this before.
Will look at every single thing they're engaged in and be like,
you know what? I probably could have done that. I could have done it better.
I could have done it better. If I did it this way, it would have turned out differently, maybe.

(14:33):
Yes. And I'm sure that Officer Marquette and all the officers that were involved
in this case have had those conversations in their mind.
What if we would have done this? Then maybe it wouldn't have ended this way.
Like, I hope so. If they're a good cop, they're going to do it. Yes, absolutely.
Every good cop is going to do that. No cop is going to – I don't know.

(14:53):
The cops that are like that have huge egos. They're like, no, I did everything right.
Right. I mean, that's a problem. They're out there. They are out there.
They are out there. And that is a problem.
You have to be willing to take a step back and say, okay, everything I did was
justified, but could have I done something different or better to have a different
outcome that met my goal? And so that's possible.

(15:16):
And we talked about that. But discussing tactics involved and what was done
before the actual use of force has no bearing on whether or not that use of
force was justified in the moment.
I guess it could have. It does. It does.

(15:36):
But if an officer is acting in
good faith based on information they're receiving and that force is used.
Like if he broke policy. So if there was a policy or an ordinance,
you can cite him for the ordinance violation.
Right. And all of the officers that were there and that nobody stopped.
Like, it's hard for me to believe that there was an ordinance because you have multiple officers.

(15:58):
Including a sergeant. Including a sergeant, allowing the tow truck driver to back into the driveway.
Right. Like basically to repo the car. Right. So it's hard for me to believe
that three officers, including a supervisor, if there was an ordinance,
allowed it to happen. And if they did, they should be held accountable,
but that's a city warden's violation.
Right. It doesn't mean that their use of force and the use of deadly force was not justified.

(16:22):
Right. Like people get caught up on the peripheral matters and want to say,
well, they did this and they did this.
And that may be true, but in the moment where they acting in good faith,
where they, and was the force used reasonable and necessary for an officer on
the scene, not based on hindsight bias.
You can't look back and say like, well, now we know this and now we know this and now we know this.

(16:46):
So therefore they weren't justified. No, the officers at the scene in the moment,
was it reasonable based on the facts and information they had?
And, you know, again, Gary and I, you know, believe that it was based on what
we know about the case and, and based on the video and based on, you know, the details.
Tales yeah the officer identifies himself very quickly right and the the the guy who was shot.

(17:14):
Pointed his gun right at the officer right yeah
so so that that was one thing okay that was one as ordinance i get it that's
a concern but like sure but we don't we don't know and it sounds like the ordinance
was made after the fact as much as i could tell like looking into this It was
made after the shooting. They created this ordinance after the shooting.

(17:36):
Again, I could be wrong, but based on everything I found.
The other thing this gentleman brought up was that the suspect had a valid concealed
carry permit and was simply trying to protect his property. Like he thought
someone was stealing his vehicle.
So that may be true. Yep. That could be true.
I don't think it is true. And the reason I don't think it's true is that people,

(18:01):
when they're getting their vehicles repoed, have correspondence from the loan company, the bank.
Someone just isn't going about their daily life, and all of a sudden,
their vehicle gets repoed.
Well, at least that's our understanding of it. Our understanding of it.
There's letters sent, hey, you're behind on payments.
There's a knowledge there. And usually, there's months, right?
I mean, it's not like, hey, you missed one payment. Your car is getting repoed.

(18:23):
I've never had a car repoed. I never have had a car repoed. I know people who
have it there. There's, there's a process there.
There's a process there. Did you know someone who had the car repoed?
Dude, I want to hear more about this. That's hilarious.
Maybe it's not hilarious but like i mean it's not hilarious it's sad
that you fall behind on bills but like dude sometimes we're in

(18:44):
rough times man yeah i don't i don't know this person i
don't know that it was it was bad budgeting i think okay but anyways it doesn't
just happen it's not like you just all of a sudden your car gets repoed and
you have no knowledge that this might happen you there's clues plus usually
it's a tow truck plus the fact that you know whether or not you're You're making your payment or not.

(19:04):
And it's not some dude trying to break into your car.
It's literally they hook it up and they drive away. That's how a repo works.
But the biggest reason why I don't think the suspect in this case knew that
his car or the biggest reason why I don't think the suspect in this case thought
his car was being stolen is because he never called the police.

(19:26):
Right. Any normal citizen who. That's a great point, Anthony.
Who believes that their car is being stolen.
First of all, most people don't steal cars with tow truck like you just mentioned.
But if you genuinely believe that your car is being stolen and you come out
brandishing a handgun to protect your property, okay, I'm good with that.

(19:47):
But a normal person, a normal citizen, immediately after that happens,
will call 911 and say, yo, someone just tried to steal my car.
Here's a description of them. They were in a tow truck. They were in my driveway.
I came out with a gun. They left.
Here's a description. Yes, a normal citizen will do that. Right.
That's like the first step. That's step one. That's like step two,

(20:09):
right? You confront the guy trying to steal your car.
He leaves. You call the police. I feel like a person acting in a righteous manner
will make that 911 call. He didn't do that.
You know if your car is getting repaid. I mean, come on. Yes.
So I don't buy this idea that he thought his stuff was getting stolen and he

(20:30):
was just protecting his stuff. I don't think that's true.
I don't think a normal person would react the way he did or not react the way he did.
And it takes a little bit of time to repossess a car.
So even the second time he comes back, so if this thief is coming back to steal
his car again, why not call the police right away?
Correct. Right? So if you don't call him the first time, why not call him the

(20:52):
second time? You know, I mean like it's it's not,
It's not a day after this. I don't know. We don't we don't know how long after it is. But but yeah.
And what thief, you know, tries to steal something, has a gun pointed brandished
at him and then is like, you know what? I'm going to go back and give that another go.
Yeah, right. You know, so, you know, again, I think the suspect in this case,

(21:15):
from what I know, decent dude, no criminal record. From what I know.
Come on, you knew your car was getting repoed. I don't believe for a second
you thought someone was actually stealing your vehicle. So that's what I'll say about that.
This gentleman in his email claimed that the officers, the tow driver,
and the suspect all belong to the same gym. Okay.

(21:37):
First of all, that's a rumor. I haven't read that rumor anywhere else.
This gentleman claims to know that they all went to the same gym.
That literally means nothing to me.
Like if this guy goes to the gym and he knows these people, that could be the case.
Yeah, I mean. It could be the case. You go to a gym with a bunch of people that
you either know or don't know, or maybe you do know, but it doesn't stop you

(21:59):
from having to do your job if you're a tow truck driver or a police officer.
That has no bearing on this case.
If you told me that they were mortal enemies, okay, that might have bearing
on the case, but they go to the same gym.
Okay. Right. They live in the same town. I don't know what to tell you.

(22:20):
That doesn't mean anything.
There was an accusation that the tow driver called officers directly.
This gentleman in his email said that the tow driver called an officer directly
and not dispatch. That's false.
Well, he could have, but he definitely called 911 or he definitely called the dispatch.
Yeah. Maybe he called an officer initially, but he definitely called dispatch

(22:41):
because we have that audio of dispatch actually dispatching officers to this
911 call. But that happens.
Like if you're making relationships with people in your community.
Sure. Or if you've helped them out before,
Most departments, so I don't know if he has a work department or if he has a
work, like a department issued cell phone, or if he has a personal cell phone, he probably has both.

(23:06):
And it really doesn't matter. Right. If an officer's working and a citizen calls
me, or if I'm working and someone calls me, I'm going to deal with it. Right.
And if I need to get on the radio and say, hey, county from whoever,
like, I got this call, I'm heading to this location, can I see the sergeant?
This is what I was told. So you're dispatching yourself.

(23:29):
Right. Right. And that does happen a lot. It does happen.
Like I have people call me all the time and, you know, that know me personally
are like, hey, this is going on. This is going on. Are you working?
That sort of thing. And yeah. So then you'll put out over the radio,
hey, I just took a report of suspicious activity at this location.
I'm en route to check it out. You basically dispatch yourself.

(23:49):
But the reason why, I mean, maybe he did call an officer in this case,
but he definitely called dispatch as well.
Well, he definitely made a call to dispatch because dispatch dispatches officers to it.
You don't have an officer on the radio saying, hey, I just took a call about this. We're going here.
Dispatch is actually calling officers about, hey, this tow truck driver just

(24:10):
called and said he had a firearm brandished at him.
And it almost sounds like the guy that you were engaging with,
like that there's some conspiracy here that like these officers wanted to murder
this guy, which is right.
There's no evidence of that. There's nothing at this point. Right.
And that would be a wild thing. Like, and if that is the case,
like obviously they need to be charged.
Right. Right. Like if that comes

(24:31):
out later on that these three were in cahoots to get rid of this guy.
I mean, that's a, that's a great story and it's, it's terrible for law enforcement
if that's true, but like, there's no, there's no reason for us to believe that at this point.
Right. There's the, you know, a lot of what he's putting in this,
in the, in this email to me is like rumors, conjecture, you know,

(24:52):
conspiracy, you know, drawing lines between points type things,
which generally doesn't happen in investigations.
You know what I mean? Like, like detectives do this too. Like you'll have like
a thousand, you'll have like a shooting and you'd be like, well,
this person lives in that area.
And you're literally just trying to like figure it out.
Right. Cause you don't have all the facts yet. Correct. And you're kind of like,
you know, you're conjecturing, you're trying to figure things out. And I, sure.

(25:16):
I think that's good that he's thinking these things through your,
this gentleman, I think it's great that he's thinking these things through.
They're just a lot of times, even detectives they're like
yeah all that was dumb right like why did we do that right
you know because it's it's usually the most obvious answer
right that's generally what it is most like
crimes that are committed or murders are not this big conspiracy thing right

(25:40):
it's just not it's it's just it's an incident that happened there was heat of
the moment or evil in the hearts of men yeah that's right yeah it's not that's
ultimately usually what it what
it comes down to it's not It's not like thought out, it's not planned,
it's not like, generally. Generally.
You know, and then if you are going to start like putting out this conspiracy

(26:01):
that the officers and the tow truck driver knew him and they were like conspiracy
to go out and murder this suspect, you have to ask your question, well, why?
Like what – if you're going to put that conspiracy out there,
you have to provide a reason why that would even happen.
Right. Why was this person so important, you know, that they needed to like
– you know, the police needed to like set him up. Yeah. Like someone sleeping with someone's wife.

(26:25):
Like those were things that would lead to that kind of, right.
That kind of action. Yeah.
So, and there is nothing like that in this case. This case is,
it seems pretty, pretty clear, pretty clear cut.
Yeah. You know, probably some bad tactics, a bad plan.
Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately the whole narrative was driven by the,

(26:45):
the car owner who came out with his gun. Right.
And then didn't drop it and pointed his gun at the police officer.
That's actually what, what caused it. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I forget what is Officer Marquette, right?
Officer Marquette. Officer Marquette. What command does he say again?
Because it's real fast. I forget what he actually said.
He says, hey, police. He announces himself, but it's really fast.

(27:10):
It's super fast. Like, you know, all of a sudden he's, you know,
Officer Marquette's coming out from the side of the house and,
you know, he's like, hey, police. And he may have startled him, right?
There's no doubt that he startled him because I don't think this guy saw the
police and then heard him say, hey, police, and then decided to like point a
gun at him. That's not what happened. He got startled.

(27:32):
The problem is when you're a gun owner, you have certain responsibilities also. Right.
All right. When you're a gun owner, you have certain responsibilities to know
who you're pointing your gun at and, and whether or not you're going to pull
the trigger. Right. Right. You have that responsibility.
Right. So him hearing, Hey police, or him being startled, him being startled
is not enough for him to point a gun at a police officer.

(27:53):
It's just not, and not like dropping the gun when he's, when he realizes it's
a, it's a guy in a uniform with a lightness with a light on his gun. Right.
Like, yeah. Yeah. And again, like, you know, I think that I completely believe
the suspect in this case knew his car was being repoed. Sure.

(28:13):
Every everything points to the fact that he knew it was being repoed and he
chose he chose to take these actions.
Again, more might come out in the case. And think about in your own life experiences.
You try one thing. It doesn't work.
You step it up to the next level, which is kind of what he did. Yeah.
Yeah. And he never called 911. He never called 911. Yeah. Yeah.

(28:37):
I think that's a big thing. What other issues?
He also brings up the fact, and I have heard this rumor, the repo driver allegedly
left the scene with the truck after the shooting.
Shooting so you know the police are there repo
drivers trying to repo the truck they have
the shooting he leaves the scene with the
truck is that a problem absolutely that it's a

(28:58):
crime scene problem it's a crime scene problem they should have locked the scene
down it's actually a problem for the trial that's coming that's going to come
up at some point yeah i mean it just muddies the muddies the waters if that
actually happened again i don't know if that actually happened That's a rumor
out there that the tow truck driver then left the scene with the truck.
Which again is a really bad police tactic. It is.

(29:20):
Yeah. It's just bad crime scene management. But again, what I'd like to say
is that all these things are peripheral to the actual problem.
And that is, was the shooting justified? That's right. Yeah.
That's what we're talking about. Bad crime scene management doesn't mean you have a murder.
And that's why we don't think Officer Marquette should have been charged with murder.

(29:42):
Murder that's 100 that's not right because the shooting
at the time was justified correct right all
these peripheral things yeah they cause questions and
they like if it was the cleanest shoot ever like then
we wouldn't be talking about this the reason we're talking about this is because
it's it's it's muddy a little bit just because of the peripheral stuff take

(30:04):
the peripheral stuff out of this it's a justified shooting and and there's never
never a perfect case yeah like Like, well...
I mean, there's when the police use force, the police, the perfect case is someone
holds a kid with a gun to their head and a police officer shoots him from a

(30:24):
sniper shoots him. That's a perfect.
Nobody's going to care. Right. Nobody cares because the kid's being held with
a gun to their head and the suspect gets blasted.
No one's going to care, but they don't care if it was bad tactics.
Most people are not going to care.
But even in those cases, Gary, there's still tactics. tactics,
there's still things done during the debrief, the officer sit in a room and

(30:45):
debrief that and have an after action review.
And they're like, we could have done this different. We could have done this
better. Police deal, the public will not, and the officer's not getting charged.
Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's like, that's like one of the very
few times where nobody's going to say anything except for the cops. Yeah.
The cops were like, we could have done it better. We could have done it differently. Yeah.
Good, good cops would. Yeah. Good cops. So the bottom line with this email that

(31:10):
I got from this gentleman is that, you know, he wants to hit on all these peripheral things,
which is fine, and they're questions that need to be answered,
but they don't drive to the point of what Gary and I were talking about.
Out and that was when the force was used was
it reasonable by the officer on the scene based on the totality

(31:33):
of circumstances with the information known at the
time no hindsight bias that's the law that's the law that's the law that that
that everybody looks to or is supposed to look to when an officer is involved
in a shooting because it's the government involved that's why right this This
has nothing to do with like a regular person.

(31:53):
This is a police officer doing their job.
Yeah. That's what's. Yeah. I, I, and, and we, we don't an officer at the scene.
The reason why that, that part of that law is so important.
An officer on scene was a reasonable necessary by an officer on scene is because
you can't base an officer's use of force and whether or not it was justified

(32:15):
or not justified on information that you find out after the fact.
Yeah. On hindsight. Yeah.
Which is, I think, the words they use in the laws.
Yeah. The hindsight. Yeah. You can't come back and be like, well,
this and this and this and this. Okay.
But what did the officers know at the moment when the force was used and was
that force justified? Right.
And again, even with all these rumors circulating and things out there that

(32:42):
no one really knows yet, the jury will know if it goes to trial.
Again, 100% justified shooting. Officer Marquette should not be charged with murder.
I mean, I looked up the Alabama law regarding murder, and it just says a person
commits a crime of murder if he or she does any of the following with intent

(33:03):
to cause death of another person.
He or she causes the death of that person or another person.
So you have to prove intent or under circumstances
manifesting extreme indifference to human
life he or she recklessly engages in conduct which
creates a grave risk of death to a person that himself or
herself and other than himself or herself and

(33:23):
thereby causes the death of another person i don't i don't how do you how do
you bring this murder charge i i i do not get it and in that like there's probably
exceptions which is you know i mean like usually there's like the exceptions
which which would be a police officer doing their job yeah i don't he also Also,
the guy also said something about Officer Marquette was the only officer who

(33:47):
fired, the only officer who shot.
Yeah, he brought that up. Which I think he's the one who's the closest,
and he's the one who this guy is pointing a gun at.
Everybody else is across the street, and they would be shooting him in the back,
which I think is still justified. But they didn't.
Right. There was another officer with Marquette on the side of the house.

(34:07):
But, but Marquette officer Marquette was the one who made a verbal contact and
had the gun pointed directly at him. Right.
And, and the video shows that the fact that the lights on it and the gun shows that, um.
It's, it's, I think that's actually good that not everybody shot like that's,
that's sometimes what happens.
It's called what sympathetic fire or something like that. Yeah.

(34:29):
That when one officer fires and there's other officers on the scene,
they'll just start blasting around.
Right. Which shows some type of like restraint that the other officers had,
which I think is a good thing. Correct. Correct.
Yeah. Well, we, I mean, I think the feedback's good. We want more of it.
Yeah. Yeah, I do not. If you want to disagree and you want to reach out and

(34:51):
you want to share things that you know about the case or you think you know
about the case, I'm totally fine with that.
If you're disrespectful and you just call me names and stuff,
I'm not going to respond to you.
You love being called names. But I'm more than willing to have a discourse about
these cases and everything.
I think that's what. Or someone else has a different point or another point that is on our side too.

(35:15):
Like, send it out. Hit us up on the socials. But 100% Officer Marquette should
not have been charged with murder. He shouldn't be facing trial.
And I think this next case we're going to talk about out of Grand Rapids,
I guess these cases really bother me because this could be any officer in any town USA.

(35:37):
And you have this feeling,
you get this feeling that officers right now are kind of playing Russian roulette
a little bit with our careers because you go out, you're every call every day,
every day, every day, you're expected to go out and do your job.
But the level of scrutiny, you know, you do your job and then all of a sudden

(35:58):
you're charged with murder. Right.
You know, that's, that's a, that's a heavy, it honestly makes officers not want to do anything.
Right. That's what it, that's, that's what happens.
It makes officers not want to do anything, and it causes hesitation.
It causes hesitation, which causes more people to get hurt, more officers to

(36:19):
get hurt. And civilians. And civilians.
And it's not helping the public.
It's not helping the safety of the public. These cases are not helping the safety of the public.
What they're causing officers to do is hesitate and or not do their job.

(36:41):
And I think one of the most disturbing things to me is the amount of hesitation
I'm seeing in videos. I watch a lot of videos.
Yeah. You know, it's what I do. I do it for the podcast. I do it because it makes me better.
But that officer who was just killed in Dallas, did you hear about that officer

(37:01):
that was just killed in Dallas?
Suspect goes up to his car, videotapes an interaction with him,
pulls out a gun, and executes the officer in his car.
Video tapes that they haven't released the videotape, which annoys me.
You want to release videotape of every officer and every single thing they do
and pick it apart and, and tell them what they did wrong and crucify them.

(37:22):
And, and, you know, you know, just try them in the press and charge them with murder.
But then you have like a cold blooded killer videotape himself executing a police officer.
We're not going to put it out to the public. It's too, it's too terrible to see.
I get it. You have family involved, but why, why don't we put that video out to the public?
And show people what officers are actually dealing with out there and how evil

(37:44):
some people are. I have a problem with that.
Yeah. And Dallas isn't a hoedunk department. No, it's a huge department.
And so then they didn't release any video from the officer who was killed.
Tragic. This officer is literally just sitting in a parking lot.
He had just cleared a call, sitting in a parking lot, probably trying to just

(38:05):
get caught up on paperwork real quick or make a phone call or something.
He's sitting there. And this idiot comes up to him, starts interacting with
him, starts videotaping him, and then just pulls out a gun and executes him
in his car. He doesn't even have a chance to do anything.
And, you know, dispatch heard a weird...

(38:26):
Sound or a weird, like something from his radio, uh, GPS them and got other officers there.
The other officers get their suspect engages in a gunfight with them.
Then they get in a pursuit.
This pursuit ends. They show the video of the pursuit ending. Okay.
And I watched the video of the pursuit. Any, the, the pursuit ends,
the guy gets out, the suspect gets out of his car.

(38:46):
The suspect has a gun in his hand. The suspect probably walks 20 feet towards
the police officers before they shoot and kill him.
And I'm just like, what are we doing?
Why are we waiting? We already know he shot a cop.
We might already know he killed a cop, but we definitely know he shot a cop.

(39:07):
And he has a gun. We know he has a gun.
We know he has intent to kill people and police officers.
Why are we waiting to put this guy down? What is the hesitation?
And I think the hesitation is this.
It's this idea that, hey, if I put this person down, and especially if I put
this person down and I'm not the right color, I might be charged with murder.

(39:30):
And it's disgusting to me. There's no deference showed to the police.
It's like these DAs, they just want to drop charges on officers to wash their hands of it.
It's purely- It's to appease the public, the loud voices.
Because I don't think it's the majority of, It's not the majority of public.
No, it's not. No, it's just the loud voices.

(39:52):
It's just the loud and angry. And I think, you know... Who hate cops.
Right. And you can't assign motives to the hearts of these DAs,
but it reeks of just trying to save their careers.
I'm going to make this decision to appease people, appear that I am,
you know, unbiased in everything I do.

(40:12):
So I'm just going to throw a bone to the loud critics of law enforcement and
drop a murder charge on an officer. Which is...
That shouldn't you, that shouldn't be in your brain, right?
What should be in your brain is did this officer act with reasonable force or
not reasonable force? Right.
Like, look, Anthony, if there were videos out there of cops doing committing

(40:36):
murder, we would be talking about it because it's terrible.
Like it's that, that's where the breakdown of society happens is when your law enforcement is dirty.
Right. The problem is Anthony, they don't exist. Right.
It's these like it's these fringe incidents that that gain national attention

(40:56):
or local attention, regional attention, and then they get charged.
Right. You know, if there were cops out there murdering people,
I want to see the videos and I want to tear that cop up. Right.
That's what I want to do. And they're they don't exist. Like there are a couple out there.
Okay. That, you know, like I'm thinking of that one. I can't remember if it's

(41:18):
South Carolina, North Carolina. The officer involved shooting.
Guy uses his taser and then he shoots the suspect. Then he goes and drops the
taser beside the suspect.
Yes. That was a really bad one. Yep. And I think that guy was charged with murder.
And again, I didn't look closely into that case, but that one looked pretty bad.

(41:40):
But what I'm saying, there's not a lot of those out there. Oh,
yeah, for sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like nine, you know, again.
This mantra in our press that the police are state-sponsored murderers,
if that is true, we're really bad at it. Right.
Like, we're terrible at it. Right. Like, if that's true, I mean,

(42:03):
we average maybe 1,000 officer-involved shooting deaths a year in this country.
That's very low. Yeah. That seems very low to me. Yeah. And most people think
it's tens of thousands every year, you know?
So yeah, I've always marveled at that.

(42:25):
The people who say like, you know, the police are systemically racist and they're
just out here murdering, you know, black and brown people.
Well, if that's the case, we're not good at it. We're terrible at it.
Like, you know, if that, you know, and the thing is, it's not the case.
And the stats show that over and over and over again.

(42:47):
And it doesn't matter how many times you put these stats out there.
Only a thousand officer involved shooting deaths every year.
What is it? Millions and millions of police contacts every year.
Only a small percentage of them. It's less than 1%. I think it's like 0.001%
end in a police shooting. Like the stats out there, and don't quote me on those stats.

(43:12):
I'm trying to bring this off the top of my head early in the morning here.
But the stats out there are just amazing.
Do not show what our press likes people to believe. Right.
So anyways, the second case we're talking about is Grand Rapids officer Christopher Schur.
This one, I do remember this case. I do too. Yeah. As soon as I saw the video,

(43:33):
I was like, oh yeah, I remember this.
So, you know, here's the thing. This video came out. Everyone's up in arms.
You know, I don't know that I realized the officer had been charged with murder.
This came back on my radar because we did the story about Officer Marquette
and talking about his justified use of force.
This one came on my radar through social media. Some people reached out to me

(43:55):
and said, hey, do you remember Officer Scherr? That sort of thing.
And when did this happen? So this happened. This is a Grand Rapids officer,
Christopher Scherr. Oh, boy. He's charged second degree murder.
Yeah. In Michigan. And this happened around 8 a.m. on April 4th, 2022.
Okay. in Grand Rapids. Eight in the morning. Eight in the morning.

(44:16):
Again, I generally don't put the names of suspects out on these cases.
It's not because I don't think they have any value or that I believe they're less than human.
I just refuse to do it. I don't think there's any reason to give people who
chose to use force and resistance and assaultive behavior against the police deserve airtime.

(44:41):
Yeah. That's my personal opinion. I like it. And it's your podcast.
You do what you want. Yeah. So I put the officer's names out there.
You can go out there. You can find the name of the suspect that's out there.
I just, I just, they're, they're a suspect in my, in my podcast.
8 a.m. Yeah. 8 a.m. April 4th, 2022.
The suspect, you know, unknown to Officer Scherr at the time was that this suspect was intoxicated.

(45:06):
His BAC was 0.29, which is three times over the legal limit.
Again, this was all unknown to Officer Scherr at the time. So he,
he's not using this information in his force.
He's just basing his use of force on the level of resistance by the suspect.
But just to give you an idea of who the suspect was, things that he was engaged
in, his propensity for criminal activity, I think it's important to put these

(45:32):
things out there. They want to put out the jacket of the police officer.
We can put out the jacket of the suspect.
But again, that has no bearing on his use of force.
Because officers, sure, as far as I know, had no knowledge of who the suspect
was when he had this interaction.
But he was drawn three times the legal limit. He had three warrants out for

(45:52):
him, a hit and run, a failure to appear warrant, and a domestic violence warrant.
So Officer Scherr does a traffic stop. It's in the rain with this driver.
There's a front seat passenger in the car.
And the reason he does the stop is because the plate on the car,
the license plate on the car does not come back to that car.
So that can mean a couple of things. It can mean someone's just fraudulently using a plate.
It can mean that the car is stolen.

(46:15):
It can mean several different things. It's definitely something that needs to be investigated.
So as soon as officer Schur stops the car, suspect, boom, out of the car.
And Officer Schur tells them to stay in the car. Why is that a problem?
As soon as you stop a car, someone jumps out of the car. Why is that a problem?
For me? Yeah, for you personally as a police officer. They don't want to be in the car.

(46:36):
If you're in a car, it's harder to run unless you drive away.
Correct. Right? It's harder to fight in a car.
And it's abnormal. Yeah. I just, I don't like it. I mean.
It's a huge red flag. If you stop a car and the person jumps out of that car
immediately, the first thing that an officer should be thinking is there's bad stuff about to happen.

(47:03):
Right. There's bad stuff going on. Because a suspect gets out of the car for
two reasons or three reasons.
To fight, flee, or get away from contraband in the car.
Right. To separate himself from that car. Distance. So whenever I see that,
you have to think there's a weapon present somewhere around this person.

(47:24):
That is extremely suspicious behavior, extremely problematic behavior,
and it needs to be dealt with immediately.
So officer sure tells him, Hey, stay in the car. He tells this,
this guy four times to stay in the car, get back in the car.
And the suspect responds with, what did I do? Right. What did I do? What did I do?

(47:45):
And shuts the car of the door or the door of the car.
Again, the fact that he's saying, what did I do is a stall tactic, right?
It's, it's, and he doesn't answer right away too. He gives like the stare,
like, I mean, he's thinking, what am I going to do? Right.
And he's thinking, am I going to fight? Am I going to run? Right.
Or am I going to comply with this guy? And these are all, he's thinking about this in his head. Yes.

(48:09):
Like we're not, we're not magicians. I can't read his mind, but my experience
tells me that's what he's doing. Correct. He's thinking, am I going to fight him?
Or can I fight this guy? He's like, he's looking at the cop trying to figure
out, can I take him? Can I run from him?
Or am I just going to talk to them? Right. Am I going to take what's coming?
And you and I know this, Gary, because we've dealt with this so many times in our careers.

(48:36):
Whenever you are dealing with someone and they're just staring at you blankly
and you're giving them commands and they're asking you questions instead of
doing what you're telling them to do,
they're buying time because they're trying to make important decisions in their head.
Which is why you keep asking questions. That's what I do. Right.
That's like my tactic. You keep asking questions. You keep talking to him.

(48:57):
Hey, man, look at me. Hey, where's your license?
Where is your license? Hey, man, do you have a license? Where's your license?
And he did ask like, where's your license?
Or do you have a license? And it takes him like four seconds to say yes.
And he's like, well, where's the license? He makes sure he understands English. Yeah. Another stall.
And then he's like, I think it's
in the car. Yeah. And so these are all things that you have to decide.

(49:18):
Okay you either need to keep talking to
them or you need to because it's resistance
yep you need to start giving clear direct
commands sit down on the ground you know
get on the ground something like that like lean against the car
lean against the car put your hands on top of your head clear and if
there is not a response to those you need to start ramping up

(49:40):
your use of force because you are in a very i i
don't i don't care what anyone says regard well
maybe he was just you know a confused and now
he's trying to figure wait that was also the problem you
know but but we the police do not have the luxury of
of dealing with someone's confusion because those red
flags can mean that something very bad

(50:01):
is about to happen and you have to deal with it you have to deal with it you
cannot let it keep going so officer sure is trying to deal with it he he asked
you know make sure he understands english tells him why he's stopping him yeah
he's like the license plate doesn't belong in a car yeah suspect keeps asking
officer sure why he's being stopped.
Again sure tells him why he appears

(50:24):
intoxicated he's he's taking a long time
to answer questions suspect then claims that his license is in the car he he
opens the door tells the passenger to retrieve his license which is just weird
like you know where your license is in the car why are you trying to explain
to your passenger where your license is to give it to he's not going in the

(50:45):
car. He's still staying outside the car.
He's still trying to figure out what he's going to do. This suspect's still
trying to figure out what he's going to do. So nothing happens.
The passenger can't find his license, doesn't produce a license.
So suspect just shuts the driver's door again and starts walking away.
Right. Walks toward the front of the car. Walks towards the front. Because.

(51:07):
Officer Schur goes hands-on, looks like he tries to get control of the suspect's hands.
Suspect twists, pulls away, faces Officer Schur, and then turns and takes off running.
Officer Schur quickly catches up to him, pushes him to the ground.
It's hard to tell on the body cam. Again, those body cams, they're only good for so much.

(51:28):
And when you're in contact with someone and actually fighting with someone,
you can't tell what's going on. Like up close, because you're literally just
seeing the chest or the back or the feet or the whatever of the person.
But you hear the suspect verbally surrendering, saying things like, okay, okay, okay.
But you continue to hear officer Schur tell him to stop resisting.
And you can tell that he's still actively resisting. He's totally actively resisting.

(51:52):
There's flashes of the camera where he's pushing himself up off the ground.
He's trying to get back up off the ground.
Like he's on the ground. He bases himself up.
Up and he actually stands up again and goes to the ground again and
bases himself up like when i say base like on all
fours right like strong that's that's a strong position yeah
it's a real strong it's not a great position but it's strong right and

(52:12):
the officer's just trying to control him yeah so spins on him a few times the
suspect like spins on the officer which is super scary yep if you're in that
moment like that is scary because you don't know you you first of all this This
suspect looked like he had definite size advantage on Officer Schur.
He looked strong. Yeah. He actually takes his radio.
When he tackles him, the suspect has, it looks like he has the radio in his

(52:37):
hand. Okay. I missed that in the video.
But there's definitely this ongoing struggle.
Suspect is able to get back up off the ground. Officer Schur is telling him,
put your hands behind your back.
He's like, okay, okay. But he's not doing it. That's a common tactic.
People saying things like, I can't breathe. That's a common tactic.

(52:58):
Okay, okay, I give up, I give up, and they're still fighting.
That's a common tactic used by suspects in these cases.
But he just keeps saying, okay, okay, but he's not doing anything Officer Scherr
is telling him to do. Struggle continues.
Once he's up off the ground, Officer Scherr is trying to get him back down on
the ground, handcuff him. He's fighting to not be handcuffed.

(53:19):
Again, this guy's not running away. Like he's not running away.
Right. At this point, he's fighting the officer. Yeah. It's it's it's so it's,
it's different than like him trying to get up to run.
He's not, they don't even leave the, the, this small yard. Right.
They're just, it's a wrestling match in the yard. That's what,
that's what's happening.
And the suspect continues to turn on the officer multiple times on the ground

(53:42):
and standing up. It's not like he's trying to get away from the officer.
He's fighting the officer. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
And so when the suspect breaks away again, turns to Officer Scher,
Officer Scher attempts to deploy his taser.
It appears to be a misfire or maybe he's just using arcing function.
It's hard to tell if he actually deploys it because the suspect's hands on it. Right.

(54:06):
But the suspect has his hand on the taser, grabs it, and is pushing it away from him.
You hear Officer Schur saying, let go of my taser. There's no good connection
because you can hear the arc. Yeah, you can hear it. There's no good connection.
The taser sounds a certain way when there's a good connection.
There was not a good connection in this.
Body cam goes dark at this point because they're back in contact again and fighting.

(54:29):
Fighting and so what happens is that a
lot of the body cams that departments
are using are from axon and
that you press the middle of them to turn them
off so when you're in a fight it's like two to
three seconds yes press and and you press the
middle you hold it for two or three seconds and it goes off right i personally

(54:50):
have been in fights where my body cam has gone off so that's not uncommon
because if you're in close contact with a suspect that can
easily get pushed in for two or three seconds so and it
actually falls off of his of his gear it.
Falls off and then it turns back on when they're
giving cpr to the suspect after everything
is over after officer sure has engaged in an

(55:13):
officer involved shooting shoots a suspect officers are
there they're giving cpr the camera turns back on it's painted pointed sky
where you just see it's on the ground because it's on the on the ground
again that's not uncommon because if someone comes in the area with
their lights on or someone pulls a gun or
something like that it'll turn so it doesn't turn on when he
pulls his gun out because he shoots he shoots the suspect like

(55:34):
it doesn't turn on when he pulls his gun or it
yeah it doesn't it it looks like it it malfunctioned in in some way i don't
i don't know if if maybe he had his gun out before it fell off or right as it
fell off right i don't know right i i don't it doesn't matter it doesn't it
doesn't matter it's not a conspiracy because Because there's also the video.

(55:55):
Yeah, it's not a conspiracy. There's also the video from the passenger.
Right. There's video from the
passenger, I think. Which shows the other angle of the shooting. Right.
So basically, those other videos from witnesses, what they show is the struggle continues.
Suspect fully has control of the taser, is on all fours on the ground.

(56:17):
Officer Scherr is telling him over and over again to let go of the taser. He's not.
And again, the suspect has full control of it. officer sure pulls his duty weapon
and shoots the suspect in the back of the head right killing him,
Again, everyone wants to use the words, oh, he executed him, he executed him.
He didn't execute him. He justifiably killed him because he was fighting for his life.

(56:40):
He believed that he was in grave danger of serious bodily injury and or death.
And the reason for that is because the taser can incapacitate someone for five seconds.
It can incapacitate you for a lot longer than five seconds if you hold that trigger down.
Right usually it's 30
seconds right if you just hold some of them

(57:03):
are set to go off after a certain amount of time but most of them will go off
till the battery dies if you hold the trigger okay if you hold that trigger
down it's gonna it's gonna cycle for as long as that battery lasts okay there's
some battery packs out there on some tasers that have a setting that will turn
off after a certain amount of time.
But either way, I looked at the Taser. It's a Taser 7.

(57:29):
The Taser 7 has two cartridges in the front of it. So you don't need to like
reload. There's two cartridges in the front of it.
I saw a picture of it afterwards and it looked like both of those cartridges
had been deployed at some point.
So what's unknown is did the suspect deploy one of of those cartridges?

(57:50):
Did Officer Schur deploy both of them?
I don't have the answers to those questions. I don't know who deployed the cartridges.
Does it matter? It doesn't matter because just because both cartridges are deployed
doesn't mean that that taser still can't be used.
During the struggle and during the fight, if you look carefully,
it does look like there's leads, the wires from the taser wrapped all around

(58:12):
Officer Schur, the suspect on the ground.
So if those are still connected to the taser and that trigger is depressed,
officer sure could be incapacitated by the leads just by touching those leads.
It can also be used as a drive stun.
They call it a drive stun. The taser can be driven into a person's thigh,

(58:33):
stomach, wherever on their body, and the trigger can be pulled and there's like
a shock delivered, a pain.
It's a pain compliance type thing, but it can still be used.
The taser is a hard object. It can be used as a blunt force object.
It's not a pillow. It's not a pillow. So you have all these things going on.
Dude, you're crushing your mic dude. Crushing it.

(58:56):
You have all these things going on, not to mention it appears that this struggle
was going on for three or four minutes.
That's a long time. And you can hear Officer Schur in the video.
Like, he's getting winded. He's getting tired. He's getting gassed.
And part of that's just the physical.
And he's not really winning. No. No, he's not.

(59:19):
He's not winning. The guy, this bad guy now has his taser and is not giving it up.
You know you have the physical exertion you also have the mental exertion going
on yep and officer sure is i think reaching that point of i'm losing this i'm
losing this fight he now has my taser and makes a decision to to pull his pull

(59:42):
his firearm and and shoot and kill the suspect.
Justified it's a justified use of force it is completely justified again Again,
you can look back and say,
well, he could have done this different, he could have done this different,
he could have done this different, he could have done this different. It doesn't matter.

(01:00:03):
The tactics in this case, yes, maybe there's tactics and maybe there's things
that could have been done differently.
And I'm sure Officer Schur has spent many hours of his life thinking over it,
rehashing it in his head and thinking about what if I would have done this?
What if I would have done this?
Any officer worth their salt is going to do that.

(01:00:24):
But in the moment, what he was faced with, it was reasonable,
necessary by any officer on the scene to do what he did.
It's not pretty. Nope. It doesn't look nice. Nope.
But he has a right to defend himself, his life, and the life of anyone else
around there. And again, who drove what happened?

(01:00:45):
The guy who fought him. The guy who fought him. Like, I don't know what you
want police to do if you're like, it just shouldn't have happened.
Well, I get it. Police don't want to do this. Like, they don't want to do this.
And that's the thing. Like, there's such an outcry about this.
And, you know, the question is, okay, you don't like this use of force.

(01:01:07):
Course what do you suggest the officer should have done let him
go that's probably the answer right just just let him
let him go but but you don't but the next
follow-up question is how do you know he would have just gone i
don't i don't think he would have i don't think he would have like i think he
was there to for the fire there to fight so you
know i think he would have killed him if he had a chance i think i

(01:01:27):
think so you know if he pulled he he
grabbed his taser if that officer pulled his gun he
was grabbing his gun whatever that officer did he countered
it right like he was a
great he was the aggressor the whole time he's the aggressor he's not the aggressor
actually when he until he's running and he has some distance he's not the aggressor

(01:01:50):
you know what i mean but once he's once the officer tackles him and they're
wrestling in this small front yard I mean, it's a small front yard.
It's like a 10 by 10 maybe. It's super small. Yeah.
An officer's got to be able to take a suspect into custody who's actively fighting him. Right.
And the officer does not have the luxury of leaving, of giving up, of retreating.

(01:02:19):
Yeah. And this officer's not like, you mother sucker, blah, blah,
blah. Yeah. And he's like beating on, like it's not that. He's trying to control this guy. Right.
Who's fighting him. Right. So Officer Scher is charged with second degree murder.
He was fired after the investigation by Michigan State Police.
So the Michigan State Police investigated this, and then he was charged with second degree murder.

(01:02:41):
Second degree murder in Michigan is defined as intentionally causing death without
premeditation or killing someone during the commission of a serious crime.
The penalty for second degree murder is up to life in prison. Unreal.
Kent County Prosecutor Chris Becker made the decision to bring the charges
after an investigation was completed and during a press conference about the charges
stated that to bring the charge the death was not justified due to self-defense

(01:03:04):
so ken county prosecutor chris becker saying this was not self-defense unreal
it's unreal charges were brought june 9th 2022 just two months after the shooting
uh during the presser this this,
i'm trying not to draw conclusions about this ken county prosecutor but during
the presser he He just came across as smug, I thought, during the press conference

(01:03:29):
and proud of himself for charging this guy.
Like, look at me. I'm not biased. Yeah.
Just do your job. Yeah. Like you have an officer who's literally fighting.
That officer believed he's fighting for his life. Well, that's what we think.
Yeah. That's what it looks like. Absolutely. A hundred percent.

(01:03:51):
That's the feeling I had watching the video. I'm like, man, he's- And listen,
not every cop is a jujitsu master.
Right. Like we can't expect that of police officers.
You can't. I guess we can. Yeah, but you're not going to find them.
Right. Like you're never going to be able to pay a guy 60 grand a year to be
a jujitsu master and to be able to like pretzel somebody up in three and a half seconds.

(01:04:12):
Like it's not going to happen. Not everybody is trained as well as,
you know, cops have different levels of training.
Right. They have different levels of experience. They deal with things differently.
Like, I don't know what, they're not Delta force operators. Right.
Like cops are not that. Right.
Yeah. So I mean, he was gassed after three minutes.

(01:04:33):
Is i'd be gassed after three minutes a long it's a long time
now i know some different techniques that he didn't use
right but i've been trained a certain way right so
but not everybody gets that training and that is an issue but that doesn't negate
what happened correct this criminal fought the cop and the cop thought he was
going to lose his life that's what we that's what i believe right he was like

(01:04:55):
if i don't end this now i'm gonna die or be seriously injured yeah like that Right.
It doesn't have to be killed, right? Yeah, it doesn't. The officer doesn't necessarily
just have to believe he's going to be killed.
It can be, he believes he's an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death.
Right. Like that, that is, that is the threshold.
And you can't tell me that a suspect who's holding the taser and maybe officer

(01:05:18):
sure didn't even know that both his cartridges that had been deployed on the taser.
Again, he's, he's completely gassed. It's still a deadly weapon.
It's still a deadly weapon. It still is.
And he's reacting to that level of resistance.
A level of resistance that started the moment he pulled the stop.
The moment the suspect got out of the car, that's resistance.

(01:05:39):
Yep. You're saying- It obviously jumped up.
Sure. It jumped up for sure, but
it started- He started with resistance immediately after being stopped.
Yep. The officer didn't. The officer would have just conducted the vehicle stop
like he normally does. Arrested him for his stupid warrants. Right.
So during the presser, the press asked Kent County prosecutor if he thought

(01:06:03):
that this was Michigan's version of the George Floyd incident.
And prosecutor answered, I'll let the media decide. I'm not going to make that
call. I'm like, you sniveling little weakling.
That is a terrible answer. Just say no. It's not.
These cases are completely different. All cases are unique.
How dare you make that accusation or try to draw a line between what happened

(01:06:26):
there and what. Because at this point, you know, everyone's still up in arms
about the George Floyd thing.
They still think certain things about it. Now we have more information about it.
But I'm just like, just grow a pair and give an answer. Don't just like, you know, whatever.
But again, it just it kind of reeks of this, you know, kowtowing to the mob once again.

(01:06:47):
You know, there were calls for the prosecutor to recuse himself because he made
a past donation to the Grand Rapids PD union for his campaign.
Payne, again, I don't know that that means he should recuse himself,
but did he bring the charge to appear unbiased or try to appease the Pam family?
I don't know. I can't speak to what was in his head, but I don't understand

(01:07:08):
how you are a lawyer, how you're a prosecutor, and you look at this case and
be like, yep, this is murder and not self-defense.
I mean, I just don't get that.
At the preliminary hearing, witnesses testified that
officer was winning and in control the whole time but
appeared to be getting worn out i would disagree that the officer appeared to
be winning the whole time officer sure he would be close to winning he well

(01:07:32):
i think he had period like when he first shoved him to the ground but yeah like
it was not it was he was not going well he did not control that criminal the entire time.
Yeah. Yeah. There were zero control. Right. There was there was not winning.
Winning is controlling it. Right.
Yeah. I would I would agree with that. I think there were times he was on top

(01:07:54):
of it. There was times he was on top of them.
And I think Officer Schur, you know, was was doing his best to try to gain control.
But yeah, he never had good control of the of the suspect.
And and and again, this is not, you know, we're not we're not saying anything
negative about Officer Schur. sure, I don't know anything about this officer.

(01:08:15):
Maybe he's very good tactically.
It sounds like he was a very proactive officer, had gotten awards for other
investigations. I mean, you don't see him throwing punches.
There's no strikes. There's no arm. You just can't see it. Right. Yeah.
But this witness, he testified that he thought the officer was winning,

(01:08:37):
but getting worn out, which is important.
Even if you think the officer is winning, but he's getting worn out.
That is an important part to the case, because you're saying this officer was
getting worn out, as any person would if they're fighting with someone for three to four minutes.
The same witness testified to trying to get the front seat pastor to get the
suspect under control, you know, and stop fighting and to stay down.

(01:09:01):
So the same witness is trying to get the front seat pastor, hey,
get control of your guy, tell him to stay down, tell him to stop fighting.
And this same witness initially told investigators he didn't believe Officer
Schur did anything wrong. But after watching the video, he changed his mind. There we go.
So, again, you have a witness who initially says, I don't think he did anything wrong.

(01:09:22):
And then he sees the video, which is awful to watch.
Now I do think he did something wrong. Right. You can't have it both ways.
There were items in the car, including IDs and credit cards that didn't belong
to the suspect. They found that after the search of the car.
So that's maybe why he got out of the car. so fast. He wanted to separate himself
from that contraband. I didn't know that. Yeah.

(01:09:43):
So the case has been held over for a jury trial and officer Schur's legal team
has filed appeals against lower courts ruling their, their fighting.
Good. And it's, it, I will say this officer Schur, if you look at pictures of
him, you know, on, on duty and, and as an officer, and then you look at pictures
of him recently as he's going through this ordeal.

(01:10:05):
Man i feel for the guy he looks like
he's aged is he incarcerated no he
i don't believe he's incarcerated no he's not incarcerated
right now they're they're still working through the legal battle and everything
but it just looks like he's aged 10 years and i my heart just goes out to him
like the guy you this is a rough episode man it's like a little bit heart heavy

(01:10:30):
yeah i mean you can And, you know,
we look at these cases and we're critical.
I think you and I are rightfully critical of the officer and of any officer
involved in a case like this about what they did and how they did it.
But they still used a level of force that was appropriate. And now they're facing a murder charge.

(01:10:54):
And they're doing their job. Right. They've been asked and they've agreed to.
They've made an oath to protect the public.
You know what I mean? And to go after the bad guy, like that's what,
that's what protecting the public means is going after the criminal.
That's what that means. Right. And like, these guys are just doing their job
and some are better than others tactically and better at talking. Right.

(01:11:16):
They're better at all. Like there's just different levels of levels.
Yeah. Just like the person, Chick-fil-A, some people were actually,
most people at Chick-fil-A are real nice, but like whatever you go to a restaurant
and sometimes you get great service.
Sometimes you don't. Right. That doesn't make it criminal. Right.
Yeah. And like, you got to to remember these people are human
beings like they're and they're asked to

(01:11:36):
do this job that nobody else wants to do that's
not great paying that's super stressful it's
terrible hours and it becomes even more
stressful when this this
incident could happen to any cop in any city or
rural area of the united states of america and that's
scary yeah yeah and it's sad this

(01:11:58):
dude was just trying to do his job he never he
never went to work hoping this would happen
hoping that this would happen or thinking that by
the end of his shift he would be facing murder murder charges
murder i mean that's it's not
much worse and it happened to you and he's like you
said he's just doing his job he's just doing a traffic stop and

(01:12:19):
and the suspect drove all the action to
this everything every single piece of this this
wasn't your aggressive cop who like mouths off
from the very beginning you see those videos right a lot we're like
the cops kind of like like trying to get the suspect to do something more may
you know what i mean contempt yeah i think there's sometimes you see you see

(01:12:40):
that sometimes you see it like i don't think you see it as much as no press
would well our press would like and not anymore either because cops are learning
they're getting better They're getting better, better at talking to people. Yeah.
I, I don't know. It's just, it's just really disheartening.
And, and to, to see an officer, you know, literally fighting for, for his life,

(01:13:00):
fighting to go home at the end of the shift and, and reaching a point where
he feels that he doesn't have any options left because of how long he's been
fighting because Because of what the suspect now has in his hands.
And making a decision that now has him charged with second-degree murder.
And then as I was investigating this, as I was looking into this case.

(01:13:24):
Dude, don't make it any more heavier, dude.
Can I talk about this pastor's group that called for justice? Yeah, go ahead.
This might bring some light to it, maybe. I just... This really upset me.
And I want to be careful because pastors...
How do I say it, Gary? I want to be careful. I don't know what you're trying

(01:13:44):
to say, Gary. I want to be careful.
Like, you know, the same way I hold police with a certain deference and when
I believe that they have, not I believe, they have been put in those positions by God.
That's what Romans 13 says, that police officers, regardless of whether or not
they are followers of Christ or not, they've been put in those positions by

(01:14:06):
God and they carry the sword for a reason.
Okay? Okay. Just officer sure carried a gun for a reason. It wasn't to like fire warning shots.
It's to stop a threat. Right. And that's, and that's what he did.
So I, you know, I, I want to show deference to police officers.
I, in the same way, pastors, I would hope.

(01:14:28):
And some of these, when I say pastors, some of the pastors in this group,
I would question whether or not they're actually pastors, but you know,
I want to show a level of deference to them as, as people who.
Are supposed to be preaching the word of God and pointing people to Christ.
But this pastor's group out of Grand Rapids did a call for Justice Sunday.

(01:14:51):
They did a press conference, and I didn't watch all of it, but they read down
this letter of demands for the Grand Rapids Police Department.
In the letter, there was no call for accountability to criminals.
It was only accountability for police officers who actually,
in this case, were actually doing their job.
There was no seat at the table for the police, only a seat at the table for

(01:15:14):
whatever group of people has been decided to be marginalized.
They made race an issue based purely on skin pigmentation of each party involved
and absolutely no other facts.
So you have pastors writing this letter and these demands to the Grand Rapids Police Department.
And there's a whole press conference. There's an hour-long press conference

(01:15:36):
on YouTube that you can watch that they do with the press.
And it is absolutely one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.
Reminds me of some of the stuff I saw going on during George Floyd,
where you had pastors doing these,
doing these forums and these meetings and having all these people around the

(01:15:56):
table and talking about how terrible the police are and the systemic racism
and buying into this narrative.
And I never, ever saw a police officer invited to the table and it, it pisses me off.
Like yeah you want to talk about partiality right
you know and and i i

(01:16:17):
don't understand like i'm sure some of
these pastors and i'll use the term loosely based on some of the things i saw
on this video have people in their congregation who are in law enforcement and
you are you are making judgments about officer sure's heart based purely on

(01:16:38):
his skin color right and the skin color the suspect.
You wouldn't be you couldn't make these statements if the suspect was white.
Right. You're making them based purely on the skin color of the people involved.
Like there's zero. Disgusting. There is zero there is zero,
Race has nothing to do with anything in this shooting.

(01:17:00):
The suspect happened to be black. The officer happened to be white. It means nothing.
It means nothing. If you can prove to me that racism played a part, so be it.
But there's no proof. But the narrative is that the system is racist,
which is funny to me. Like, I don't know how a system can be racist.
I don't understand how a system can be racist either. Like, it's an individual thing. Right.

(01:17:24):
Racism is is again it's a sin
sin resides in the heart of people sure you can't
have a system be be be sinful
in and of itself sinful people may be
in in that's well everyone yeah you
know sinful people make up these these
systems right you know since we

(01:17:47):
love this word right now giant air quotes i love
it and and the thing is you know if you
want to if you want to preach this idea that there's systemic racism in
law enforcement like just take a step back and think about what
that means that that means that in in our police
academies that that is being taught right
you know i can tell i mean i haven't been to police academy a really long time

(01:18:08):
but that the opposite is being oh my word i've just been in orientation for
the last a little while ago and like the opposite of racism is being taught
right like it's been 20 years since i went to the academy and I'm in like this training to like,
for this new place and like the opposite is being taught,
which is what I was taught 20 years ago. Right. It's the same thing. Right.

(01:18:30):
But you're using different verbiage and stuff now. And like,
there's other ideas, but it's all, it's there.
Yeah. I mean, the idea that, that, that our officers are being trained to, to be racist.
To hunt, to hunt the darker skin people. I mean, that, that's insane.
It's terrible. And that's what you're saying when the system it's systemic racism. Yeah.

(01:18:51):
It needs to be weeded out. Like, I, I, I just, I don't understand that,
like, put some critical thinking behind that. Just think about what you're saying.
Like that makes zero sense.
Zero sense. Right. You know, and, and the, I guess I'm just like,
you know, when I look at, you know, are, are there racist police officers? Sure.

(01:19:13):
There's racist people in every.
Well, we're assuming that. I mean, I don't know any, but like,
I'm assuming that someone is racist. I honestly don't know any,
I have not crossed paths with any racist police officers.
Knowing the hearts of men, do I think there's racist police officers out there? Sure.
I would have no doubt that there's some racist police officers out there.

(01:19:35):
But the time and day that we're in, those officers are doing everything in their power to hide that.
Right, because they're not very good at it. Because they have a job.
So they're doing every, they might have racist ideas or they might be biased
or they might be prejudice, but those officers who actually do have that in
their hearts are doing everything in their power to hide that.

(01:19:57):
Right. It's not in the open.
It's not out in the, it's not out in the open. They're not acting out on those
biases and prejudices because they know that it could cost them their job.
And, and you know, the body cams, we show, show me this systemic racism on body cams.
And don't just show me a picture of a white officer doing something using force

(01:20:18):
against a black suspect and say, well, there you go. There's your racism. Come on. That's lazy.
That's lazy. It is. It's super lazy. It's very lazy.
It's unintellectual also. It's just not smart. It's not intellectual at all.
There's no critical thinking behind it. And so I guess for pastors to come out

(01:20:40):
and make these types of accusations and say these things is disgusting to me.
I would hope that there was pastors in the Grand Rapids area that responded
to this letter by this organization and said, what are you doing?
Right. And really got after them about it and called them to the carpet to go

(01:21:01):
after an officer who they do not know and say, this guy's a racist.
Right. It's terrible. And it needs to end. And so if you're listening to this,
you know Officer Schur, and he, you know, Officer Schur, if you get a chance,
by any chance, to listen to this episode,

(01:21:22):
man, we're thinking about you, we're praying for you, and I hope you win.
And I hope you win your case. We think it's absolutely a tragedy,
an absolute injustice that you were charged with second-degree murder.
And yeah man it's heavy heavy cases but i you know after doing the officer marquette story,

(01:21:43):
and this was brought up to me i was like yeah i want to
i want to touch on this too because the officer marquette story really got
a lot of good feedback we got feedback about it and these cases are starting
to happen more and more and more yeah and uh yeah i don't know i don't know
you know i think i i'm sure down the road we'll have more of these cases that
you and i will talk about out because we look at these cases differently than the general public.

(01:22:08):
They just see an officer using deadly force, a suspect dying.
It's not enjoyable to watch. It's horrible to watch.
It shows someone dying, but it doesn't mean it wasn't justified.
And in this case, Officer Scherer, complete justified use of force,
a complete justified use of deadly force.

(01:22:29):
He did what he had to do at the end of a fight with a suspect who was not surrendering,
who was assaultive, who had taken a weapon from him, a taser, and it was justified.
Yep, 100%. Does he have like a support page or anything like that?
Do you know of? I know there's there on Facebook.

(01:22:49):
There's a support page for him.
We're gonna put that in the show links. Yeah, I'll try to put that in the episode
notes along with some links to the videos.
You know, I don't know. These videos are heavy to watch, but I put them out
there if you want to watch them and see some of the stuff we're talking about.
So yeah, yeah. Give us a five star review. And listen, just put a comment like a great show.

(01:23:11):
Like you don't have to get crazy. just just something or yeah give
us a like an exclamation point that's it like just
do something it actually helps the show it's give us a five-star review
because it's honest because this is good show and hit
us up on the socials you didn't sound too i don't know what do you mean you
didn't sound super confident with that it's a great show you know it is a great

(01:23:32):
show dude we're out here grinding yeah early morning hours before the day gets
gets going crazy yeah but yeah hit us up on on the socials.
Argue with us a little bit. Just be kind. We're going to be kind back.
We'll be kind back. We might be sarcastic, but that's like our.
That's our, our thing. You can be sarcastic. Just don't be, don't be unkind.
And don't call Anthony names. You can call me names.

(01:23:55):
I don't mind being called names because I think it's funny. Yeah.
As long as they're unique names.
Like, if they're, like, the random, like, oh, you're a pig, blah,
blah, blah. Like, I don't care about that. But if you have something unique
that's funny, like, that'd be cool.
Yeah. But try to be calm. We'll put that on. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll put that out.
Like, if you call Gary names, we're going to talk about that.
Oh, yeah. If you call me names, I'm not responding to you.
It'll never be mentioned. But you call Gary names? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:24:17):
We'll talk about it. Dude, that'd be awesome. Unless it hurts my feelings,
then I'll have about one or two of them.
Give one or two feelings left? One or two feelings, yeah.
Anyway, dude, that was a tough show, man.
It's important stuff. I love it. It's important stuff. I like this.
I like talking about officers that were charged with murder and trying to break
it apart and bring some reasonableness to it because the DAs are not.

(01:24:40):
No, the DAs are not. The DAs are not. That's unfortunate.
At least the ones that we're bringing to light. I'm sure there's lots of DAs
that are justifying officers using deadly force. That's happening. Right.
But those who are caving to the public and the media and this false narrative,
like shame on you. Right. Shame on you.

(01:25:01):
You're derelicting your duty. Is that right?
Can you derelict a dude derelicting? I don't know. Dude, I like that.
We're going to use it. I think you've come up with a couple of words during
this episode. That's awesome. Usually that's me.
I know. Derelicting is a cool word though. But I'm not smart enough to hit you
on it. I don't think derelicting is a word.
It's definitely not a word, dude. All right, man.

(01:25:24):
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