Ofc. Terrence Sutton Is Sentenced and Justice vs. Mercy

Episode Transcript
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Music.

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My most recent meal had lots of onions in it.
So I'm hoping that I don't peel your face off with my breath over here.
I don't think you will. It's a small studio. We're very close.
Too close. Intimate. It's an intimate setting for the work that we do.
Intimate setting. Oh, man, it's fall. So all the crazy Karens are getting their pumpkin spice lattes.

(00:35):
Oh, dude, everybody loves a pumpkin spiced latte.
Yeah, everything's pumpkin now, right? Yeah, I don't like pumpkin spice lattes. I don't do anything.
I'm not a pumpkin guy. I'm not either.
I do like the idea of baking pumpkin seeds and chewing on them.

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Have you ever done that? You've never done that? No, I've done it.
Well, I haven't personally done it. I've had pumpkin seeds, and I don't think they're very good.
Yo, that Tyreek Hill patron, I got some kudos for that one. That was a fun one.
Yeah. For patrons only, dude. I just did the math while I was coming over here.
It took me a while to do it because it's 12 months a year, right?

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So the subscription, $5 a month.
So I had to do 5 times 10 and then add 10.
So it's $60 and you get all of the episodes.
You get patron-exclusive episodes and you get early access to all our episodes.
Which I was told that I was amped during that episode that we just released.

(01:40):
You were super amped. I think you come in with a different energy on the patron-only
episodes. It could be. It's probably worth $60 a year.
I think you feel a little safer or something.
You feel, yeah, I don't know. I think you feel a little safer. I went off on that guy.
Well, yeah, I mean. I called him entitled, I think.

(02:00):
I think that most disgusting thing about that whole case is that now he's a professional athlete.
He makes millions of dollars and he's trying to get the
cop fired yeah that's so rude come on dude has
there been any follow-up to that have you done anything i haven't i mean i
know the cops on administrative leave yeah um
not duty administrative leave and uh as far as i i recall and he also his jacket

(02:27):
isn't great they broke of course they broke out his jacket oh yeah he's had
complaints and stuff and i would say you know watching watching him interact
i'm like this This guy probably has gotten other complaints. Oh, yeah.
He's not the – He's old school. He probably needs to retire.
You can't police like that in today's world.
No, definitely not. In Florida, you can a little bit more than most other places it seems.

(02:51):
But listen, we do patron-only content.
We record patron-only content. We put out patron-only content.
And yeah, like you said, Gary, $5 a month gets you access to all that content.
Become a patron, go to www.diagonusacc.com, hit the support tab.

(03:12):
And uh you know you can it's a little clunky website
we probably should put some work into that we got to get our tech person on that it's
a little clunky because i went through it the other day and i was like man i
don't think i would spend this much time trying to figure it out but dude you
hit the support tab and then you hit i know but you got to go to like look you
got to go to low expectations and like that's because the patron the patron

(03:33):
website is it's just not It's not ideal is what I'm saying.
It's the best. Oh my word. Seriously?
Don't get mad. You know, I made, I created the website. And you did a great job.
I'm just saying it could be improved, dude. We should always be reforming.
We should always be trying to be better. Gary, anytime you want to work on the website, let me know.

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I'll give you the password. You can work on it. You're so mad.
I am annoyed. We have a tech person, dude. We don't have anyone.
We have a tech person for Instagram. Yeah, but I'm going to get her on the website.
We're going to make it better. Okay. All right. When I say we,
I mean the tech. I love how you have all these ideas.
Someone reached out to me about one of the patron episodes where I hadn't even

(04:16):
remembered this, but one of the patron episodes where you were talking about
your retirement and we were reminiscing about your career and stuff.
Patron really enjoyed the episode. And he was saying, I'm really looking forward
to the patron only barbecue that Gary said we're going to do.
And I said, that's a great thing about Gary.
Gary throws out these ideas of things we're going to do, which means that I

(04:38):
have to make them happen.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to do it. You're just like, oh, like the website.
Whoa, it's so clunky. Blah, blah, blah. I don't think I said it like that at
all. I said it was a little bit clunky.
It's just a little bit clunky. It's a little bit clunky. Okay. I'll come in.
What if I came into your little like leather making studio and.
Hippie leather making studio. I'm like, well, this, this piece of leather thing

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you made, you know, it's kind of clunky.
I would take the criticism and I would reform myself. I would make myself better.
I'm just not as mature as you, I guess.
That's not true. We did, we did throw out a little snippet of that episode on,
on the Insta. On the Instagram. Yeah.
Yeah. But anyway, it's 60 bucks a year.

(05:21):
I mean, it's, it's, it's worth it, dude. It is worth it. I mean,
that's like three Three pumpkin spice lattes.
Yeah. You know, I mean, in reality. How many people that listen to this podcast
are buying pumpkin spice lattes? Very few.
Yeah. They're probably making fun of them like we are. We're six minutes into
this and we haven't even said what this is.

(05:43):
It's Low Expectations episode number 19, Gary.
So how am I going to do the intro music on this one?
Oh, dude, just like, it's fine, dude. It doesn't matter.
We're off to a great start here on this episode. Anthony, it's great to see
you. It's great to see you. Dude, when I walked into the studio,
you looked as thrilled as me.
I know. We got to get motivated. It's like late evening.
If you consider this late evening, we are way older.

(06:06):
We're old men, dude. Dude. Grumpy old men, obviously.
It's not that. We're not as grumpy as all the politicians these days. Oh my goodness.
Dude. I can't. I just can't. As they say, I just can't. I can't. I can't. I just can't.
The presidential race is heating up, Gary. yeah
obviously trump got trump almost got assassinated again

(06:27):
maybe not almost got assassinated but like there was an
attempt i guess so it looks like one thing i didn't i didn't
read or or am unclear on did this guy actually get
some shots off i in his
direction i don't think so i don't think because i've read
some stuff that makes it sound like maybe he fired like the shots were exchanged
i saw that but i don't know yet i don't

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know i haven't followed this one as much because nobody got hit you know right it was
kind of like my my biggest question about the whole thing
oh yeah here comes the conspiracy yes here come
i i i don't understand this and
i'm i'm waiting for someone to explain this to me allegedly him
being he was at at not he was not at his normal golf course at how do you say

(07:10):
mar-a-lago yeah yeah mar-a-lago mar-a-lago he wasn't at that golf course he
was at a different golf course this go and and his time at this golf course
while he He goes to that golf course at times.
This was not on his public itinerary. So the question is, this suspect is not
from the area, traveled a long distance to get there,

(07:32):
supposedly took up a position for 12 hours in this sniper's nest,
that's what they're calling it.
We used to call that a hide. Yeah. So my question is, where? In the military? Yeah.
So my question is, how did he know that Trump was going to be at this location?

(07:53):
That's my biggest question about this whole thing. Like, how did he know Trump
was going to be frequenting this location if this wasn't on his itinerary, his public schedule?
It didn't seem like- Are people asking that question? I've seen people asking it.
The other, I mean, on the flip side of that, you had news agencies there that were filming him.

(08:14):
But then, you know, the really, you know, hardcore conspiracy theorists are
like, why was a news agency there filming? For the arrest?
No, filming Trump playing golf. Like, why were they there?
Just because it's Trump and they were just filming him? They just happened to
be there? Don't people always follow him around, though? I would imagine.
I mean, I don't know. No, that's the oddest thing about it. But thankfully it didn't happen.

(08:40):
I mean, yeah, I just, but how many times, like how many times is this going to happen?
Do you think, go ahead. No. Do you think the rhetoric from the left is to,
is partially to blame for all this, for the two attempted assassination attempts?

(09:02):
Way to commit. head yeah i mean sure whatever
like in reality like we say this all the time people make their own
decisions it's just weird that you're not seeing that type
of violence from the right right because trump's
right yeah on the on the right
on conservative towards the left right yeah you're not
seeing that same type of i guess
that that one chick greta whatever she was

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like there's a kidnapping scheme i guess that
was a few years ago that was apparently but that was
mostly feds it got one guy right right we're two guys
yeah because a bunch of feds like created a
group and that was a little bit weird but anyway so it
does seem like the rhetoric has i mean when
you call someone hitler and over and over and over again like that's all that's

(09:46):
what you hear but and the crazy thing is too like right after this happened
it seems like the go-to talking points for the left i think i even saw you know
today harris when asked about it immediately goes to talking about.
All these peripheral issues that trump is talking
about like the stuff going on in smithfield ohio like

(10:07):
people eating cats and cats the
memes right now are great yeah the memes are great right
now many of them and and you know it's it's almost like there's this idea well
trump is saying a lot of things so you know he's partially like it's almost
it's almost like it to be expected because someone says trump is such a terrible

(10:28):
person i mean if someone's saying that someone's cats are getting eaten.
Like my initial reaction is, well, let's go find the person who said that and shoot them.
Or like, I want to secure the border.
Let's go shoot that guy. Or, you know, I want the states to have.
The states states reviewing abortion or whatever
okay making laws for abortion like my initial thought isn't

(10:50):
to go shoot them or if it's the opposite right we want abortion for up
to 20 weeks or right 60 weeks or whatever right my
initial reaction isn't well let's go find that person and kill them yeah there's
something going on it does seem like there's a there's a very distinct rhetoric
against him hatred like a very like visceral hatred that you haven't we've never

(11:12):
seen before that we haven't seen i guess when former president barack obama when he first.
Was like running for office there was a lot of hatred toward
him but i don't know that it
was to the obviously it wasn't to this level but you didn't see the rhetoric
against obama like calling him or referring to him as a from the tyrant from

(11:33):
the leaders of the country right for sure yeah right yeah yeah so what do you
think is the biggest issue i i know you love talking politics I hate politics.
Why do you hate talking about it so much? I just don't, like,
it's just not, I don't know, dude.
I think because of where I live and like, it does, we've talked about this.
It just doesn't affect me as much as like local politics affects me. Yeah, of course.

(11:54):
What local politics always, I think is going to affect you more than the national politics.
But I think when, when. I mean, I think it's important. I just like,
I don't, I mean, what is there to talk about? Like, I have nothing unique to
say that anybody else has already said in regards to politics.
Like, well, this is low expectations. So people want to know.

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I mean, I don't know what to say, dude. What do you think is the biggest issue?
I'm just going to barge on ahead here.
What do you, for you personally, what is the biggest issue in this election?
Man, I haven't thought about that. You absolutely have.
Like, what are my, like, what do I vote? What are the main things that you look at when you vote?
I'm a big pro-life guy. Okay. So like abortion is a big deal to me.

(12:38):
I think it's great that Roe v. Wade was overturned.
I'm thankful that the states are making the decisions and the people are actually
getting a chance instead of federal government, like legislating that.
I think that's huge. Okay.
The border is a big deal. I felt like my bills were smaller four years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

(13:00):
I mean, that's, yeah, I don't know that I have a whole lot of,
so the federal government, I don't know that it affects, affects my life as much as maybe it does.
I just don't feel like it, it does, or I don't really have, I'm not going to
be able to change it. So like, it's like, it's kind of out of my control.
I get to vote and I get to like talk to friends about it or whatever.
But, but see, I think that's the kind of attitude, you know,

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when I talk to people who don't vote, I'm like, oh, what's my vote matter?
Yeah. Well, if one million people have that attitude, which more than one million
people have that attitude, it does affect the outcome.
I agree. So I think we should care. And I vote in non-presidential elections.
I vote every time I get a chance to.
Right. For sure. I think it's interesting.

(13:44):
Recently, I saw someone on social media. So I guess back in July,
Trump was at a Christian at Turning Point Action Summit. I don't know if you're
at TPA USA or something like that.
And he said he was telling the group of, I guess, generally would be evangelicals

(14:04):
that were at this, that if they vote for him.
You won't have to do it more. He said, you won't have to do it anymore.
Four more years. You know what? It'll be fixed. It'll be fine.
You won't have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians, he said.
So he said this. No, wait, wait. He said you won't have to vote again?
Right. He made this statement. Okay. Okay. Now, I don't know what he was referring

(14:26):
to, if he was just referring to religious liberty.
I don't know what he was referring to. I don't know the context.
I didn't read the whole speech.
But this statement- That's getting pulled out, yeah. This statement got pulled
out and people made a big deal out of it.
And when you read it, you're like, that's probably not the best statement to make.
He makes a lot of real statements. Oh, yeah. He says a lot of things that you're like, oh, come on.

(14:49):
That's not the best statement to make. Like their pets are being stolen and eaten.
Well, there's a lot of proof out there. They're frying cats over an open flame.
There's a lot of things that suggest that that is not far off.
What do you think cat tastes like? It's probably gamey.
Gamey? He probably needs a good marinade, maybe.

(15:10):
So anyways, he made this statement, and I saw something on social media where
someone was like, you know, we need to have an honest conversation.
You know, this is tyrannical behavior. You know, this guy wants to get in office
and take over and never leave office again. We need to have an honest conversation about it.
And I was like, and this was from a professing Christian.

(15:33):
And I was like, well, that's an interesting take when you have a vice president
who has gaslit the American public for the last three and a half years telling
us that the president is okay, he's mentally fine, there's nothing wrong with him.
And then at the very last minute says, oh no, actually there is something wrong with him.
So I'm now running for president and I'm doing so without getting any primary votes.

(15:58):
The first time that's ever happened in American history. Right.
That seems a little tyrannical to me. I don't know. I'm just throwing that out there.
And from a person who literally has told us that day one, things will change.
But the last three and a half years, she has been able to enact change.

(16:20):
You would think she was in a position where she would be able to enact some
of this change she's going to take on day one.
And furthermore what what do
we believe like you're gonna you know now you're against everything
you're you and your your your president
have stood for for the last three and a half years now all of a sudden you're

(16:41):
against it and you're going to change it there just seems to be a level of deceitfulness
there and then i think you hit on the other thing that's important for me is
that the whole abortion thing like i mean i think i personally think trump is
weak on abortion he's He's very weak.
He's super weak on abortion. But I think at a federal level, he's strong.
Right. And I also, when I look at the abortion issue, I look at it as like,

(17:06):
I'm not voting for someone.
I'm voting for someone whose policies most closely line up with the Bible.
Sure. And so when you look at Trump, while he's not strong on abortion,
his ideas and his ideals about it more closely line up to the Bible than Kamala Harris's.

(17:30):
Well, there's no one running that would align with what we believe to be true.
For sure. Zero people. Which is an abolitionist belief.
It is the murder of a person. That's what it is.
And that it's never justified regardless of the peripheral things that have
happened to create that pregnancy or the danger it creates for the mother or anything like that.

(17:56):
But his ideas and his viewpoints on it get us closer to what we believe as believers than Harris's.
And during the last debate, I thought that Harris was most passionate about
abortion in that debate than anything else.

(18:17):
When that issue came up, it seemed like, as just someone watching the debate,
that she was more passionate about that topic and making sure that people can
murder their babies than anything else in the debate, which is a concern to me as a believer.
So the biggest, I guess the thing that I keep thinking about,
and this is such a loaded question,

(18:39):
is how do professing believers vote for someone like Kamala Harris?
Because behind the abortion issue, another, you know, I think human life issue
is the border issue. you.
For both the people that we're just letting come across, right now the reports

(18:59):
out there are between 200,000 and 300,000 children that have come across this border.
The American government has no idea where they're at.
We know they're being trafficked. We know they're being used in absolutely evil ways.
Do we care about those people? We have to ask our question, do we care about those people?
In addition, do we care about the people in this country, the safety and the

(19:24):
the people in this country, do we care about them?
Do we care about their lives as we continue to see the level of violence and
murder committed by illegal aliens?
Do we care about those lives?
And so when you take those two issues, and I'm just like, how can a person who

(19:46):
professes to be a follower of
christ vote for the side who cares the least about those two things right,
it's a good question i don't know how to answer it because i i'm not going to vote that way.
The important thing is to not bind people's consciences and we have no authority
over anybody but like hopefully where we where we worship there's there's not

(20:10):
a binding of conscience or talk of who to vote for,
who not to vote for, which I very much believe should not come from the pulpit
or from your leaders of a church. For sure.
So I don't know, man. But I think about that passage at the end of Romans 1,
where it talks about not only the people who sin, but those that approve of sin. Yeah.

(20:35):
I guess you could make the argument that, hey, Trump is weak on abortion.
You're not really voting for someone who doesn't believe in the murder of children.
He just has maybe a more constricted view of it, a more restrictive view of it.
Right. So then what do you do? Like you abstain from voting or you just do a
write-in? Like, I mean, I guess you could. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I don't know. It's, it's just something I think

(20:56):
about often. And, and I, I just.
Have you ever had a conversation with, with a believer that,
you know, to be a believer who is going to vote, who has liberal values or progressive,
I guess, do you call it progressive viewpoints? Yeah.
No, I haven't. I think I would welcome that.
I think it's such a polarizing topic that most people don't even want to bring

(21:20):
it up with other people that they don't know because they're afraid of offending
or stepping on toes or anything like that.
That's where you and I are unique because we could sit down with someone,
even if it was two versus one.
If it was you and i talking to someone else i think
we could have that conversation in a calm manner
and hug again at the end yeah like i really i really

(21:41):
think i mean i believe that to be true of me yeah i mean i'm
it might get it might get fiery yeah but like at the
end i would imagine we could pray together and hug each other right yeah and
agree to disagree probably right right i mean it's the same thing that i think
about with with you know professing christians who you know believe that we

(22:02):
should support the LGBTQ.
I'm like, you're supporting...
You know, sin, something that the Bible calls a sin. And I don't know what that means, supporting.
Like, I mean, I don't know. Supporting, approving, celebrating,
praising, you know, the whole like, you know, in favor of, you know,

(22:22):
that, you know, that whole mantra,
you know, for sure we should be, you know, welcoming all into- To hear the gospel.
To hear the gospel into the church, like come as you are to, to, to hear the gospel.
But man, when you start, when you start approving of and, and supporting and

(22:45):
giving your vote to those types of things, man, I, I have a really difficult time with it.
It's like a hard thing. Sure, sure, sure. Like, I'm like, I don't know if that's
a bind the conscience thing.
I think that's more like, you know, is that what we're supposed to be doing
as believers thing? Yeah.
Anyways. All right. We dived into it, Gary. Barry, you looked very uncomfortable the whole time.

(23:06):
I don't know what to say, man. I just think it's an interesting conversation
as, you know, obviously we're law enforcement, but we're also,
you know, first and foremost, we're believers,
you know, and as professing Christians, I think it's a valid conversation to have.
And I think a lot of people are afraid to have it because like you said,

(23:27):
they don't want to offend or bind someone's conscience or come out and say,
if you're a Christian, you cannot vote the Democratic Party line.
And I think if you go back 10, 15, 20 years, the Democratic ticket was a whole
lot different than the Democratic ticket now. Oh, for sure.

(23:47):
It's completely different. For sure. And I think it would be a little more tough
to have that type of conversation with absolutes. I don't know.
I think it's an easier conversation right now. The older you get,
the more you think about how different things...
Could go for our country with with an

(24:10):
election right you know i mean like i don't know that it seems
like but i think this is what all older people say as
you age like things become more by like
polarizing polarizing yeah they become more opposite and
it does feel like we're literally going in two completely
different directions for sure we have the possibility of going two different
directions for sure but ultimately like

(24:31):
i rest in the fact that you know no one no
one gets office apart from god ordaining
it right which is wild and it blows my mind to think about that that i mean
that's like romans 13 yeah and like it just shows depending on which way the
country goes more toward god or away from god it shows what the people are like you know what i'm

(24:57):
So it shows where we are as a people, as individuals,
but as a group of people, where are we headed?
Are we headed toward God or are we headed away from God?
And it shows what the heart of the people wants. Right. What is right in their own eyes.
I forget what that's found in scripture, but they did what was right in their own eyes.

(25:19):
And that's literally what we're seeing. We're seeing that play out. Oh, right in front of us.
Exactly. It's being laid out right in front of us. And that's true from the
family level to a community level and ultimately to a state level and a national
level. Because you have some states which are super conservative.
You know what I mean? Think of Texas or Florida. They're pretty conservative states.

(25:40):
Right. And they have different values than they do in New Jersey, Washington, D.C.
Which is interesting, just how it differs from state to state.
Which is good. I think that's a good thing. but national elections
can change it i don't know
it just shows it shows the heart of man yeah yeah if
the elections are legit if there we go

(26:02):
again all right yeah i mean it's no i agree seriously like if the elections
are listen one thing that annoys me is this former president trump he he seems
to exaggerate for effect right i don't think that's a good quality everybody
does that i i exaggerate i thought he did terrible in the debate he did terrible
in the debate i thought He didn't do great.
He should have. Yeah. He should have fought with the moderators like he did the last time. Right.

(26:25):
And he should have set his ego aside and argued the policies and points because
he can destroy Kamala Harris on policy.
And listen, politicians aren't humble people. Right. They're just not.
At least at least the ones running now are not. They're not humble people.
Right. And I don't know that you can win an election as a humble person because
that's not what the people want.

(26:46):
And that's, I think, which shows the heart of man, which shows the heart of people. Yeah.
Yeah. So like, I, I try not to get too spun up on it. I can obsess like,
you know, me, Anthony, I can obsess over things.
And if I would spend time watching debates, always on Twitter,
seeing what Trump says and Kamala says, and like, I can really become obsessed
and like, really think maybe I'm too obsessed to dwell.

(27:08):
And I don't, maybe not, but like, I don't want to dwell on, on things that are
sort of out of my control. I get to, I get to vote and I can influence those
around me and I can speak truth to my family and my friends.
But like, like, why would, why would you dwell on that when you can look at
my website and say it's clunky?
Exactly. Yeah. Never going to let you live that down. Well, it's just clunky, man.

(27:29):
We're going to fix it. It's going to be fine. Okay. We're going to fix it,
folks. Here we go again. Just making promises.
It's like a, it's like Gary Lowe is the Trump of this podcast.
It's like, it just makes promises. Yeah. Exaggerating, making promises.
Gloviating. Yeah. exaggerating i think i'm gonna put a picture of a
cat dying cat being baked or something i love the
memes man with the cats all dressed up in military gear and

(27:50):
like ready to fight like ready to fight dude cats are feisty
they're a little bit difficult like a dog would be easier to like to take and
kill and eat probably the best way to investigate this is to go to smithfield
ohio see if there's any haitians with a lot of scratch marks on them yeah which
why hasn't anybody done that or have people done that dude there's there are
there is quite a bit of video evidence

(28:12):
police report evidence that this is happening are
you sure well okay the internet
it appears it appears there is there's been
interviews with people who claim to be smith like
here's the thing you don't know yeah it is wild to
think about this if a town of 30 000
people and this isn't being refuted the amount

(28:34):
of the amount of illegal immigrants that they're bringing an
end to the town yeah what leave the cats
out of this right just it changes your culture sure you know what i mean and
maybe for the good maybe for the bad but it it ultimately changes the culture
i for sure yeah i mean specific like driving habits right that's been the big
thing right that they're driving crazy a lot of accidents it's wild like it just seems funny.

(28:59):
Like, it's just weird. Well, I mean, look at New York City.
Look at the amount of robberies and thefts that are taking place by people on
mopeds and motorbikes. Okay.
Is that illegals, though, or is that just the culture of New York City?
A lot of it. A lot of it's illegals.
Because that's like a third-world country type thing, and you're welcoming into these urban areas.

(29:22):
And so you see that type of crime rise because
that's the type of thing that is happening in the countries they're they're
coming from and mopeds are cheaper they're easier to find there's steel they're
easier like whatever than a car so like one great podcast to listen to is is
new york retired and unfiltered new york finest retired unfiltered that's the
guy you interviewed right yeah with john mccary and and eric dim okay you know

(29:46):
and and those guys are killing it right Are they going nuts?
Because they know the inner workings. They have connections and stuff.
All the brass there is getting subpoenaed by the FBI.
Their phones have been seized. Why? Dude, it's crazy there.
We haven't even gotten into it on this podcast because I don't really feel like-
Because they're doing it. They're doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(30:07):
They're doing it. But they talk about that.
New York has welcomed the third world into New York City, and that is the type
of crime that's happening now.
So your crime with robberies and personalization.
Snatchings from people from suspects on
mopeds has gone gone through the roof and they talk about this
right so policies matter like

(30:28):
policies do matter at the federal level you know people in like small town usa
may not be feeling those policies but they may when you look at smithfield ohio
it's it's not under dispute that 20 000 immigrants have been bused into this
town and And that they cannot sustain it.
They're having a lot of problems.

(30:50):
And so the question is, okay, if that's such a loving thing to do, is it...
Is it the kind and loving thing to do for the people of Smithfield, Ohio?
And ultimately, I think the federal government is responsible for its own people. Yeah. Ultimately.
That's, that's, that's like, I think that's the biggest point is like,

(31:10):
we should love on others and our policies should be kind toward other countries.
And we should have like a legitimate immigration policy.
Absolutely. A hundred percent. For sure. But like, you can't at the detriment
of your people, just allow everybody to come in.
The protection of your people is the
primary role of government right the protection

(31:31):
of your people from both foreign and domestic yes
so like yeah i it's a
it's a crazy thing so how much
time do we spend talking about politics do a lot but let's
uh let's get into this other case this is episode 19 episode
19 dude one more 20 we did say that oh you did say
yeah i'm gary i wanted anthony over

(31:51):
here we can just cut all that politics 30
minutes 30 minutes in and we're like talking about it but we
want to do it the other thing we want to do this episode we want to talk about
oh i had one more i had one more thing to say okay maybe maybe one more thing
so we were talking about like the haitian population in smithfield they're unique
people because of the language that they speak right french creole okay so it's

(32:13):
different than french it's not spanish it's its own little language.
So like those people are going to, and everybody's got phones now and the government
probably gives it to them, but like whatever.
So it's easy to contact your family and have them come to you.
Why wouldn't you want to be around those who you know and are like you and have
the same culture, speak the same language?
So that makes sense that they're going to Smithfield because that's where there's

(32:36):
a rise in population, right?
Just like the Muslim community up in Michigan, right? It's huge because that's
like, they're living together.
And every people group, I'm using that very loosely, every people group is generally
going to want to be together.
You had that when immigration first started, you had the Italians in one part

(32:58):
of New York City, you had the Irish in another, which is how we were founded.
And maybe it was chaotic back then and it kind of neutralized and maybe we're
in that another time of like a little bit of chaos and it will neutralize.
The difference between then and now is that our federal government is actively

(33:20):
engaged in flying in people who have not been vetted and putting them in these
places. Or vetted poorly.
Or vetted poorly. Yeah, I mean, Trump made a big- And why is that?
Yeah. And Trump's making a big deal about like, you know, they're emptying their mental health.
Venezuela absolutely. A hundred percent did that. Okay. Man.

(33:40):
All right. That's very, you're very.
Venezuela. A hundred percent did that. That has been reported.
Like sent their criminals up here. Yep. Like get them out of jail, released them.
Said go to, go to the USA. Don't come back here. You go back to jail or we kill you.
I don't know what they told them, but that's a hundred percent happened in Venezuela.
Yeah that's pretty wild we wouldn't i wouldn't want

(34:02):
those people right yeah yeah immigration good
illegal aliens not good
you need you need some sort of border you need
some sort of vetting process there's nothing evil about that there's nothing
bad about that there's nothing un-christian about that you also it's also interesting
what's happened like springfield obviously didn't fight back like they did in

(34:24):
the rich martha's vineyard right so they tried to do that who was that DeSantis did that, right?
DeSantis sent them to- They bust them in.
Right. And then all these rich people stood around and- They didn't last 24 hours.
No. They're like, no, no, no. You can't be in Northern Virginia.
No, no, no. You can't be here. Which actually bothers me, right?
Because Smithfield is probably a blue collar town.
Yeah. It's just a normal everyday US city.

(34:47):
Yeah. And they're screwed. They're screwed.
And there's, there's nothing. I mean, you, the hospital's overrun.
You can't fix that now. Housing. That's done.
Right. That's done. Right. I can't imagine being a resident there and,
you know, feeling like you're just being over, overrun.
And the question is why, why were they sent to Smithfield, Ohio?

(35:08):
Yeah. A generally conservative state, probably a conservative area.
Why are you shipping that many immigrants to that location?
Right. Yeah. It's a question that has to be asked. And asking the question does not make you a racist.
Yeah. It does not make you anything.
It's just, it's a question. Like, why?

(35:30):
What would be the reason? Out of all the towns in USA, why do you pick Smithfield?
Right. What was the reason behind that? Anyway, all right. We crushed that, dude.
Everybody's tuned out. So we wanted to get into a couple other things we want
to talk about. You talked about families and how the way people vote may be
related to family values and all this and that.

(35:50):
So we're gonna talk about juvenile crime and that. I wanna get into that a little bit.
But the first thing, before we talk about that, I wanted to talk about this
Terrence, Officer Terrence Sutton case.
If you recall back in episode 19, or 19, we're in episode nine,
episode nine, Officer Sutton was the DC Metro police officer, 13 year veteran.

(36:12):
He was engaged in a low-speed pursuit back in October 2020.
The Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund took up his case because he was charged
with second-degree murder.
Because as he was chasing this gang member on a moped, the gang member was in
an alley, went out into a street, got hit by a civilian vehicle, ended up dying.

(36:37):
Do you remember that? Do you remember the case? So we talked about that back in Episode 9.
Again, this is a known gang member, lengthy criminal record.
Suspect was on a scooter. He's legally riding on a sidewalk without a helmet,
goes through an alley, fails to yield right away, gets struck by another vehicle.
This pursuit is averaging like 20 miles per hour. Suspect dies.

(36:58):
Officer Sutton gets charged with homicide. So more information,
he gets charged with second degree murder.
More information has come out about this because this case went to trial and
sentencing for Four Officer Sutton recently happened within the last week or so.
So again, Officer Sutton, he was an officer for 13 years. He has 60.

(37:18):
I found this out since the trial. He has 60 commendations. He was officer of the year two times.
He was part of a elite crime unit that specifically focused on high crime areas
within Washington, D.C.
So his own, the leadership of his department put him in an elite unit to fight

(37:39):
gang violence. Because he was legit.
A stud. He was a stud. Okay.
I like where this is going. So this- I'm starting to get my blood pressure up,
Anthony. This suspect was part of a known gang called the Kennedy Street Crew.
This gang was known for their violence.
In fact, within the last year, 12 of their members have been arrested for murder and drug crimes.

(38:02):
So that's who he was going after. Wait a minute. I saw a picture of him holding
a baby. Right. Of course-
That's always the picture they release of these guys. Or in their graduation
hat, right? Right, where they graduated high school.
Not their Instagram pictures holding up two guns and smoking weed.
Smoking weed and like eight balls of crack. Not the ones you actually see on

(38:23):
Instagram. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
So this guy was a known gang member.
What happened was, and a lot of this information was not given to the jury in this case.
Again this is this is from i'm getting
this information from the law enforcement legal defense fund and they
were they had lawyers who were representing this

(38:45):
officer you know defensive lawyers and they were working to
represent this officer so this this this suspected gang member was out on parole
at the time he was wearing an ankle monitor and the reason he was out on parole
is because he had viciously assaulted his own mother okay At the time of this incident,

(39:07):
my understanding is there had been some sort of flare-up or interaction between
the two gangs, the Kennedy Street Crew and another gang, in the area where Officer Sutton was.
So Officer Sutton sees this suspect, knows he's part of Kennedy Street Crew,
thought he was back in the area looking for retaliation. Sure.

(39:29):
So there was more to the stop than just like, hey, a guy riding a moped on a
sidewalk without a helmet.
He's trying to interact with this person.
Also, I don't know how much of this the jury didn't hear, but the judge in this
case was very concerned with prejudicing the jury against the suspect in this

(39:50):
case. The deceased. The deceased.
So he would be called a victim. Yeah, which is odd because usually the judge
is concerned with prejudicing the jury against the defendant.
But there was a lot of things that were left out in this case that would have
helped officer sutton in this case that's interesting one of them was.

(40:12):
The fact that the suspect had attached strapped
to his leg drugs and and money at
the time of his at the time of his death he had drugs and money strapped to
his leg i don't know he's out there slinging he's out there slinging he's and
he's and he's in an area where they just had a huge problem there was multiple
drugs in his system at the time of the incident a lot was brought up about Washington,

(40:37):
D.C.'s no-chase policy, because D.C.
Has a no-chase policy, but it has two exceptions.
One being they're allowed to pursue a wanted felon or anyone that poses an imminent
threat of death or serious bodily injury to another person.
So again, defense was saying, Officer Sutton's team was saying,
he believed he was there for retaliation purposes.
There was more to it than just a summary violation.

(40:59):
He believed he was trying to prevent some type of gang
interaction so here's violence yeah so here's
where i become the progressive anthony i become the progressive here like you
got to follow your policies i'm not saying that leads to murder i'm just saying
it's a policy violation i think i think even if you make that case yeah and

(41:20):
you can make that case it's just not murder but it's not murder then it's not yeah like not violating.
A policy of your police department does not mean that you should be charged
with It doesn't result in the murder charge.
Correct. And I guess they put everything together that he's just some reckless
cop chasing this guy for no reason at all and causes his death. But whatever.

(41:40):
All right, keep going, Anthony. Sorry. So anyways, after the accident,
the suspect was unconscious, but he appeared stable to Officer Sutton and other
officers who were on the scene.
He was actually transported to the hospital. I think he died actually two days later.
So at the scene, they thought he was going to be okay. They thought he just
got his bell rung and he was unconscious.
Officer Sutton returns to the police station. He starts filling out his report.

(42:02):
And while doing so, he and the other officers notified, hey,
this suspect has taken a turn for the worse, and he might not actually survive.
So at that point, the case was turned over to the major crash investigation
unit within the department.
And Sutton's told, don't even bother finishing a report.
We're taking over the case, and we'll do the investigation. The crash team's

(42:22):
doing the thing. The crash team's doing the thing, so don't do this. don't do this.
So that was later presented to the jury as obstruction.
Officer Sutton had obstructed the investigation because he never completed his report.
I don't know if it was partially done or if he didn't do anything,
but that was later put towards the jury that- How do you want to do this?
Do you want to break stuff down or are you going to go through this whole thing

(42:45):
and then we'll talk about it?
Yeah, we'll just go through the whole thing and talk about it.
All right, I'll let you do it because I don't want to keep interrupting you
because I have lots of things to say, but I'm going to forget everything by
the time you- So regardless of what the jury was told and not told,
and I'm unclear about what the jury was told and not told in this.
Yeah, without reading transcripts, right? Right. Without reading transcripts,
everyone in the courtroom was confident that Sutton was going to be found not guilty.

(43:09):
Okay. There was still enough evidence presented that everyone,
including the prosecution. How do you know that?
Again, this is coming from the legal defense. Oh, okay. They're saying, okay. Okay.
But the reason they're saying that is because no one bothered to come back to
the courtroom for the jury's verdict.
The prosecutors didn't even come back to the courtroom.

(43:30):
Okay. So the prosecutors in this case didn't even come back to the courtroom.
Family members and friends of Officer Sutton didn't come back to the courtroom.
This was like a nine-week trial.
Did the victim's family show up? i don't i'm assuming i'm assuming so but there
were there were there were a lot of people involved with the case that didn't
even come back because and and the law enforcement legal defense fund is saying

(43:53):
like it's because everyone thought for sure this was going to be a not guilty you know verdict.
He's found guilty okay he was just recently sentenced to five and a half years in prison,
prosecution was seeking 18 years okay so he got five and a half years it's not
terrible Mother of the suspects, furious with the sentence, claims that if Sutton

(44:14):
was a black man convicted of murder, he would have gotten a greater sentence.
Officer Sutton is currently out on bond. Is he a white guy, I'm assuming?
Officer Sutton's a white guy. Okay.
Deceased black, black male. All
right. So. Is this the same mother that he beat and he was on parole for?
I guess you only have one mother, Gary. Who knows nowadays, right?

(44:36):
But yes, I assume so. Okay. So that's just, I just wanted to give an update on that case.
And then they're obviously appealing this, the legal defense fund.
So this legal defense fund, is this that, that you can, it's kind of like a
protection, like the medical professionals have like this insurance.
Like you, we can, we can become a part of the legal defense.

(44:57):
No, they're not part of the FOP.
I don't mean FOP. Okay. There's like, I think you can get in,
I think officers can like retain them.
No, my understanding about the law enforcement legal. I'm wrong.
No, I do think you're wrong.
Like you normally are. That hurts Anthony.
The Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund, my understanding, is like a private

(45:19):
entity that officers can reach out to or whatever, and they decide whether or
not they're going to adopt a case.
Yeah, like so you plead your case with them and they pick it up,
they don't. So they're currently,
I can't remember, I think I recently read or heard that they are currently actively
trying to help 12 officers who have been charged with various crimes.

(45:44):
Sure. My understanding is they're pretty selective.
They have a lot of cases from police officers coming to them,
but they're pretty selective about what cases they take.
And they took Officer Sutton's case. And again, I don't know what level of help
they give. Are they giving actual attorneys?
Are they just assisting financially?

(46:07):
Are they assisting with...
Professionals or experts, that sort of thing.
I don't know the ABCs of what they do.
But they took on helping in this case and have been working hard to prove his

(46:28):
innocence and put out there to the general public.
Because most people don't even know about this case. They don't even know about
Officer Sutton and how he's been charged with second degree murder.
Unless you're listening to this podcast.
Right. Yeah. Or you follow, you know, the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund on social media.
So, yeah, it's just, I just, I cannot wrap my mind around going to work,

(46:54):
seeing a bad guy that you know is part of a gang,
seeing him in an area of a rival gang,
knowing that there's been a very recent flare-up and confrontation.
Between these two gangs, understanding, I should probably stop this guy and check him.
He very likely could be armed. Why is he in this area?

(47:18):
That's just good police work. He takes off on you. Yeah. So he has a reason to stop him.
That's key. You got to have a reason to stop somebody. He has probable cause
to stop him because he's riding a moped on the sidewalk.
He doesn't have a helmet on, that sort of thing. That's your probable cause.
But behind that and behind a A lot of these times when officers are stopping
someone for summary violations, there's other suspicions going on.

(47:41):
Yeah. An officer doesn't care about not wearing a helmet. He might care about
riding a moped on a sidewalk. That's kind of dangerous for pedestrians.
Like, listen, kids jump out of like foot alleys. Right.
People jump out of foot alley. When I say jump out, I mean, just walk quickly
out of foot alleys. And then you're getting waffled by God on moped without
a helmet on. Like, that's not cool.
Yeah. So you're out there and you're doing your job. you're being proactive

(48:04):
and you get in a three minute pursuit.
20 miles an hour. Averaging 20 miles per hour. And this guy runs out of an alley,
blindly onto a street, gets hit by a car, appears to be, he's going to be fine,
ends up coding and dying two days later.
And now you're charged with murder. And going to jail for five and a half years.

(48:25):
That's insane to me. It is nuts. And a very decorated officer.
And you're some schmuck rookie guy that doesn't know anything from anything.
Like this guy has done the job. He's proven himself. He's putting an elite unit
to go try to attack this gang violence and he's doing his job.
And then next thing you know.
That's wild to me. Dude, it's crazy. It's wild to me.

(48:49):
And, and, and, and how do you, how do you, how do you encourage officers who
work then in, again, most officers who work in any town, USA,
rural America, they're, they're, they're going to be fine.
Most likely, they're going to be fine. Oh, you're saying the location, DC?

(49:10):
I'm saying if you work in an urban environment, a highly liberal,
progressive location, and something like this happens, it's like Russian roulette.
You could be charged. You may not be charged.
It all depends on who the DA is.
Yeah, that's right. How, whether or not you have leaders that back you up that

(49:31):
are like, okay, all right, Right.
Maybe he violated policy, but that doesn't mean he should be charged with murder. Yeah.
Like, you know, that we have a suspect who made decisions.
Like the officer didn't get on his PA system and say, you better run from me.
You know, you better like not stop for me. Like the suspect made decisions to drive this action.

(49:55):
Yeah. Do you know anything about what the bosses in that department said or did? No, I don't.
I mean, I'm just assuming that there's no reports that anyone like went to bat for him.
I guess I mean, I read that a bunch of people wrote letters,
like fellow cops wrote a bunch of letters for him, but I don't know what that means.
You know, does that mean it was bosses too?

(50:16):
I mean, listen, in the world of policing, I'm starting to learn this.
In like the leaders of a department have a whole lot of power more than I think I ever thought. Okay.
I think this to be true. And if they cower and they're not strong leaders, they get pushed over.

(50:39):
Right. So like, but if you fight back, I think you have some more strength.
But see, I think that's an important point that you make.
Whereas in a case like this, I don't know if Washington DC Metro has a chief
or a commissioner or whatever, what they have.
But if you are- They have a leadership team for sure. If you are the highest

(51:03):
level in this department and you're like, wait a second, you get this,
it comes across your desk. You're like, okay, I understand.
If you think he violated policy, I think you can make an argument that he didn't
violate policy knowing what everything he knew.
Even if you think he violated policy, even if you say he did violate policy
as a chief of police, he violated policy.

(51:25):
However, he didn't commit murder. Right. And you're not charging him with murder.
DA of DC, you're not charging him for murder.
And if you do this, I'm going to the press and I'm going to make your life miserable.
Right. Like that is what you have. Like we're at the point right now where when
you're a leader of a large department, like when you're a leader of any department,

(51:46):
you have to go to bat for your people when they've done the right thing,
when they haven't done something illegal,
when they haven't done something immoral, like when they've just done their
job, you have to go to bat for them.
And if it means you lose your job, so be it.
Go to bat for them. Like with all your might. I agree with you.

(52:07):
If you have that much power, then use it.
Because that's the right thing to do. Right. You were put in that position to.
Lead that department. Right. Fight nasty.
Yeah. Yeah. Your job is not to succumb to and cower to the DA or to the mayor
of a town or the, you know, the governor, like that's not your job.

(52:31):
It's not your job. Call a press conference. Even, even if what you do doesn't
keep the DA from doing what he's, he or she is going to do what you,
what you immediately instill in every single person in that department is confidence.
Hey, my, my, the number one guy in this department has my back if I do my job
correctly, if I don't do anything out of sorts.

(52:55):
Yeah just wild but i wanted to give an update on that case because we we had
talked about it way back in episode nine and and i don't i mean here it is a
good thing you only got five and a half years that's if they were asking for
20 18 well eight okay round it up dude i'm sorry,
18 is going to feel like 20 dude i don't know what to say five and a half is going to feel like 20.

(53:19):
Yeah he's out on bail or out on yeah the judge
did allow him out on bail while they while they fight this
yeah you said you had some other questions or things
you wanted to bring up about this case no i don't know what i was
i forget what i was going to say it doesn't matter it was it was probably going
to be the same stuff we said in episode nine go listen to that i probably had
some things to say about something anyways yeah i mean i hope it works out i

(53:42):
mean let's again we talked about this before like depending on what is allowed
and oftentimes it's really it's it's odd to me. This is what's odd to me.
The usually a defendant is allowed a lot of, a lot of help from the court. Right.
It sounds like in this case, the defendant was not awarded that type of protection.

(54:05):
Right. So that to me is, is fish. It's DC though, dude. It's DC.
Like that's, that's where we're at. Like, listen, if you're a DC officer,
like you're doing great work, but you might want to find another job somewhere else.
I mean, I'm just saying, like any of these liberal towns that you're working
in, that people are getting charged. And this is 2020.
He was charged in 2020, which was the peak of like chaos in the police world.

(54:29):
So I get it. And it's not easy to move your family. And it's what you want to
do your whole life. He's 13 year vet.
He's, he's, you know, seven years from being vested probably.
I, I get it. But like, look, look, look what you're up against.
You can go get a job in Florida and probably be protected. You can go get a
job in Texas and probably be protected.
That doesn't mean it's right i'm just saying like if this

(54:52):
is what they want if this is
what they want the people of that area
don't police there go somewhere else find a
job somewhere else and that doesn't make it i'm not saying that
that's the right thing to do but maybe that's maybe that's what
this country needs is like police officers to to go find a job where they're
going to be protected where they're going to have leaders who who come to back

(55:14):
them up where the people want Want them to actually fight the gang members and
put them in their place and lock them up or we continue to get locked up for silly things like this.
It's terrible this guy lost his life. He chose to run.
He could have taken a hit, got a slap on the wrist is probably what would have happened.

(55:35):
But he chose to flee and he got smacked by a car because he drove like an idiot,
even though it was 20 miles an hour. He wasn't looking around,
wasn't paying attention.
That was he drove the narrative. Right.
So like, I'm telling you, if that's what the people want.
That's what you get. You're going to get either lazy cops that aren't doing the job.
And I'm not going to say lazy cops that are in self-preservation mode,

(55:59):
which is very difficult for a real cop, because when you see wrong in front
of you, you want to go after it. Right.
But like, maybe there needs to be a mindset that like, listen,
for, if you're young and you're not a cop yet and you want to be a cop,
go somewhere that's conservative, like do some research.
Don't just take the first job in front of you. Don't go to a big,
don't go to a big city and just get hired, like maybe think about it to protect

(56:23):
your family and yourself and go somewhere where they're going to protect you. Yeah.
And the problem with that is that it's going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy
because everyone's like, oh, the cops in the US are dirty.
There's so much corruption, blah, blah, blah.
And what you're going to see is more and more corruption by law enforcement
in urban areas is because you have all the good cops fleeing to preserve and

(56:50):
stay out of jail and make a living and provide for their families and they can't hire anybody.
And so standards are lowered. Whether they say standards are lowered or not, they're lowered.
Because you're just a number. Listen, a cop is just a number. You're just a number.
You're boots on the ground. You're part of a budget and you're a political talking point.

(57:12):
Look, we hired seven cops this year right look how
great i am there's no name it's just you're just a number
s i'm telling you when you retire you're replaced in a heartbeat nobody cares
and they shouldn't in reality they shouldn't care right you've done great work
like the the lord is is pleased with your work whether or not you're a believer
like you've done his work if you've done it well so like don't get wrapped up

(57:35):
in you know look at me i'm going to save the world you're doing you're doing good work,
but like, but it's a self-fulfilling prophecy to more corruption that,
that, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's not on the good cop.
No, it's on leadership. Yeah. It always comes back to leadership.
It does. It always comes back to leadership. And, you know, the people in this

(57:58):
country that are screaming like, oh, the police here are so corrupt,
so corrupt. Go to another country.
There are other countries where the police are absolutely corrupt.
Like, literally, you want to go down that street, that cop there,
you got to give him 10 bucks to get past him.
Like, absolutely, absolute corruption in law enforcement. That is not the case.

(58:21):
Are there corrupt cops? Are there bad cops?
Yes, we've talked about that. We've said absolutely 100% there's bad cops,
but the vast majority of them in this country are not corrupt.
I think what you're going to see is more corruption now because there's a lot
less people who want to do the job, especially in urban areas. is.

(58:44):
And so what are these urban areas going to do? They're going to lower the standards.
They're all saying they're not lowering their standards, but I guarantee you
they're lowering their standards because they need a body. They need bodies.
They need someone on that post. They need someone in that sector.
They need someone in that quadrant.
So they're lowering the standards and you're going to bring people in with a
lower moral compass and you are going to have more corruption.

(59:07):
Over the next 10, 15 years,
I think you're going to see much greater levels of corruption in law enforcement
because these urban departments have leaders with zero spines,
do not care about their people,
do not care about the mission,
only care about making money and saving their jobs. That's the only thing they care about.

(59:31):
And so if you have that, how are you going to bring in good people? Right.
A lot of people are going to be like, no, I don't want to work in that department.
I'm going to go work in a rural town, a rural township where I have the support

(59:52):
of the community and I have the support of my leaders.
And they actually want me to- But if that's what causes there to be change, I say bring it on.
Right. Because again, it's the heart- And it's going to be painful. for
those who live in urban environments for sure it's going
to be painful for this country yeah we we in

(01:00:13):
in law enforcement we've set ourselves back decades
well the leadership from city
government and the leadership from president down
for sure has i mean starting with
president obama that's that's when all it started with with the the anti-police
stuff that's when that was all it started like you know president obama calling

(01:00:35):
calling you know calling officers out right you know for certain things and
that that's it's a sad sad day man dude that
this is rough one makes me sad because like like i don't want to see like the
civilian population suffer which is what's going to happen because grandma's
not gonna be able to come out of the house because there's two gangs fighting

(01:00:58):
in front of their house and the cops there to to do anything.
Ultimately, the people that are going to suffer the most are the people,
the people. Yeah, the people.
Yep, yep. Speaking of people suffering.
Oh, good segue. Juvenile crime. All right. A lot of people are suffering at
the hands of juvenile crime.
Yeah. So couple things I want to talk about here real quick.

(01:01:20):
A 12 year old boy in, I think this is in Maryland.
He's been, he keeps stealing cars. Okay. He's connected to 17 crime scenes.
There's nothing they can do about this kid because he's 12.
And because he isn't 13, they can't do anything about him.

(01:01:41):
They can't charge him because he hasn't committed any violent offenses.
So this, this is in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Okay. So you have that case. then you
had this case recently in denver colorado a
juvenile was killed by a car owner i'll read this this is
from denver kdvr news the family of elias armstrong that's the name of the the

(01:02:07):
juvenile is furious the man who killed the 12 year old boy won't face charges
so this elias was 12 years old okay he was found shot to death in a stolen vehicle
in 2900 block west 10th avenue on the night of Sunday.
February 5th. So this happened a while ago.
The vehicle owner using a phone app tracked a stolen vehicle from the area where

(01:02:27):
the car was to this location where he shot Armstrong.
This is what the news puts out. They just put that- All right,
so this is the same 12-year-old that stole 17. No, no, no. This is a different story.
No, this is a different story. This 12-year-old boy that stole 17 cars involved
in 17 crime scenes, that's a story out of Montgomery County in Maryland.
Okay. Okay. This, that's one 12 year old. Now we have another 12 year old.

(01:02:50):
Okay. In Denver, Colorado.
All right. And this news agency just says that he was shot in a stolen vehicle
by the owner of the vehicle.
It doesn't, they don't put the details of why he was shot.
He wasn't just this, the owner of the car didn't come up and just shoot him
cold blooded in a stolen car. He tracked a stolen car.

(01:03:11):
He, he found the stolen car.
He saw one of the juveniles. There was, I think, a total of three juveniles
in the stolen car. He saw one of them running back to the stolen car.
One of the juveniles in the car, probably, I think there were two other juveniles
who were like 16 years of age.
One of those suspects, they think, fired a shot at the car owner.

(01:03:34):
Okay. The car owner returned fire, fired like 15 rounds at the car as it pulled
away, ended up killing the 12-year-old.
So he shoots at his own car being driven by the thief?
Because he was shot at. Yeah, I gotcha. He runs up to the car.
He doesn't have his gun out when he runs up to the car. He doesn't,
it doesn't look like he pulls his gun until he shot out. He pulls his gun and defends himself.

(01:03:56):
And he ends up killing this 12 year old.
The news doesn't put it. They're just like 12 year old shot by car owner.
Yeah. It drives me crazy.
The 12 year old drove the vehicle a few blocks away where he died from at least two gunshots.
This is what dad says. I got out of the kid, the dad of the deceased.
Yeah. I think that if, if he would have just let the police approached the car

(01:04:18):
and he sat back and waited until he got there, that my son would be alive right now.
Since he took the law in his own hands, my son is dead because of him and nothing
is going to happen to him but a
pat on the hand, said an emotional Thomas Armstrong, the father of Elias.
Again, the two other suspects with Elias, the 12-year-old who was killed,
refusing to talk to police, won't talk to police. Okay.

(01:04:41):
Obvious in the video that the shots came Came from the car toward the victim
before the victim engaged.
And DA's office is saying, we're not charging this guy. Good for them.
We're not charging this car owner. He was defending himself.
It's a tragedy. Family is saying, you can get insurance on the car, but not on his life.
Okay. Actually, you can get insurance on a kid.

(01:05:03):
You can? Yeah. Insurance on a kid? Yeah. Like what kind of insurance?
Like the life insurance.
Oh, okay. That's a dumb statement. Who gets life insurance on a kid?
Can you imagine going to a life insurance broker and be like,
hey, I want to get a million dollars on my kid?
Yeah, what are you doing in the next couple of years?

(01:05:23):
That's funny. But you get life insurance for your kids. You can bury your kid.
That happens all the time.
Lots of people have life insurance on their kids to bury them.
Really? Or it comes with your policy or whatever.
I don't know, man. I don't know of many people that have life insurance on their
kids. I have life and my wife and I have life insurance, but I I've never heard
of getting life insurance on your, on your kids, but whatever you do, you, you do you, Gary.

(01:05:48):
So that's, that's another one. A dollar buys $30,000 life insurance policy on your kids. Okay.
All right. To help, to help. I mean, it makes sense what you're saying.
Gerber grow up plan, kids whole life insurance.
There we go. So look at that dude. Mutual of Omaha. Aflac.
Aflac. Aflac. So then we have this other story. This was from.
Dude, it's sad that 12 year old got killed, but maybe you got to learn consequences.

(01:06:12):
Listen. Don't steal a car. Yeah.
It's not your car. We'll get it. We'll get into that. This other Florida juvenile,
you know, this Volusia County Sheriff Mike Chitwood, he's done with it.
Florida's awesome, dude. He's like, listen, parents, you don't want to raise
your kids? I'll perp walk them.
He's perp walking kids? Dude, he's perp walking kids.

(01:06:35):
It's awesome. Because they continue to make false threats to schools.
Like bombings, shootings, that sort of thing. Because they don't want to go to school.
Cool so he's like you don't want to control your kids you don't want to parent your kids,
don't make me parent them i'm going to perp walk them so he's he's
perp walking perp walking kids as young as 10 years old he's putting their pictures

(01:06:56):
up on posters someone suggested and i think this is a great idea put their parents
pictures up with them too like a family photo yeah family photo you don't want
to control your kids so yeah he's he's he he was talking about how
over they over the last 24 hours when he gave this press conference they received 54 tips,

(01:07:17):
of like school violence okay ball
means i'm gonna kill people like on this tip line
that yeah they they're all false but it costs it's cost the department twenty
one thousand dollars because he's he is responding while working around the
clock trying to make sure these these threats aren't legit right they arrested
doing search warrants i mean all that stuff yeah crazy stuff So he's like, he's like,

(01:07:40):
I'm done with it, you know, because generally speaking,
juveniles, their names aren't put in the news.
Right. Their pictures aren't put in the news. Right.
You know, they're, they're very protected, but he's like, I'm done with it.
I love it. So do you think he's onto something? I love it, dude.
I love it. I think it's good.
I mean, at this point, I mean, it seems like crime is being committed by juveniles.

(01:08:04):
Like a lot of crime. And why do you think that is?
Fatherless kids. So you think that a hundred percent, that's a huge problem. Yeah.
I, that, that I think is, I mean,
I, I wish I would have, not that I would have ever kept stats on this.
But if I kept stats on the amount of people that I arrested who either didn't

(01:08:28):
know their father, their father was incarcerated, their father was dead,
their father wasn't present, didn't live with them, it would be in the 90th
percentile, probably high 90th percentile. Yeah.
So I think that's a huge... I also think that we've conditioned juveniles to

(01:08:48):
know that there are no consequences.
Even when I started in law enforcement over 22 years ago, the consequences for
juveniles was kind of a joke, and it became an even bigger joke the longer I got on in my career.
These kids know. These kids know I can do whatever I want outside of murder,

(01:09:11):
and literally nothing's going to happen.
I mean, gun possession to drug dealing to to shooting.
Just within the past two years, I dealt with a juvenile who had been arrested
multiple times, multiple times with a gun.
Nothing. Yeah. Like ankle monitor or they'll put them on like house arrest,

(01:09:31):
which they're not staying at their house. I don't know what to tell you. They're just not.
Right. And so the big thing is, have you heard of this ACES?
Yeah. What's it stand for again? It stands for. I remember I was trained in ACES one time.
Oh, did you? So you've done this? So this is a big training they're giving law
enforcement. Oh, it's huge. I never went through an ACES training.

(01:09:52):
I never went through it. Dude, in Lancaster City, they did it.
Yeah. It's adverse childhood experiences.
And so it's this idea that if you, it's like, I think 10 questions, 10 questions.
And if you score a certain amount on it, you have adverse childhood experiences
and you're more likely to engage in risky behavior. Right.

(01:10:13):
So several years ago on Diakonos Cops Calling Podcast, I interviewed Glenn Stoltzfus. Yes.
I don't remember what episode. And he was talking about this and we got into
a little discussion about it. He was big into the ACEs, I think.
He was huge into the ACEs.
And my thing to him was, that's great for determining whether or not a kid is

(01:10:34):
going to act out or engage in risky behavior or commit crime.
It explains maybe why that happened, but it shouldn't change the way we deal
with it on the criminal justice side of things.
But this help and rehabilitation aspect has completely overtaken the entire

(01:10:56):
juvenile side of the criminal justice system.
There are no consequences. It's all about rehabilitation and trying to get the
kid to change their behavior without giving, in my opinion, any consequences at all.
So yeah, I just wanted to see like what you, like what, if you had any ideas,

(01:11:19):
what we should be doing differently when it comes to the juvenile justice system.
Aces are common. About 64% of adults is from the CDC.
Oh, the CDC. We believe that. We believe the CDC.
So this is the premier center for disease control or whatever, right?
Aces are common. About 60, 64% of adults in the United States reported they

(01:11:40):
had experienced at least one One type of ACE, adverse child experience before 18.
Nearly one in six adults reported they had experienced four or more types of ACEs. Okay.
Whatever, dude. ACEs are costly. Okay.
So do you think, see, I think this is part of the, you're giving a weird look

(01:12:01):
over there. What else did you just read from the CDC?
Children growing up with toxic stress may have difficulty forming healthy and stable relationships.
Okay. I think one thing it doesn't take into consideration is about the kids
who do grow up in these environments with multiple aces, as they call them,
who still make wise decisions.

(01:12:23):
100%. It's always about this victimhood status.
And you aren't controlled by your, you're not controlled by your environment
or your past or your history.
You're affected by it, but you are not controlled by it.
Unless you allow yourself to use that as a, as a crutch. Right.

(01:12:45):
Right. I did this because of that.
So what, what do you, do you think there is an answer for the juvenile crime problem?
Cause the juvenile crime problem right now in this country is out of control.
Man, I don't, at a government level.
At a law enforcement level. Like, what do you think law enforcement should be doing?
I think we should paint with them. I think we should do crafts and arts.

(01:13:08):
This is not a serious conversation. with them.
I think we should be their life coaches. I think we should, all this while patrolling,
typing reports and answering 911 calls.
I think we should, maybe we cut their hair, style their hair,
maybe help them brush their teeth in the mornings, maybe teach them right from wrong.

(01:13:28):
We could, let's see, we could play sports with them.
We could train them how to drive eventually. I mean, the police should be doing
everything Everything in reality, Anthony. Should be their dads.
Whoa. Should be their dads. I think that's probably what needs to happen is
they need a father in their life. Yeah.
Yeah. It's interesting to me when it comes to the juvenile justice system,

(01:13:51):
and I think it's just a microcosm of the entire criminal justice system right
now, is this idea of consequences versus consequences.
Rehabilitation. And there's this idea, and I even dealt with this.
What's interesting is I even dealt with this as a supervisor,
as a sergeant, where you had an officer who did something silly.

(01:14:13):
They needed to face the consequences.
And there were times where I believe consequences should be doled out.
And I was told, well, what if we just... I think there's some things going on
with them and we need to get them some help.
And I would say 100% agree, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get a consequence for the action.

(01:14:37):
Just because we think there's something going on in their personal life or with
them that requires some level of help or assistance,
whether it be mental health, whether it be help with a substance abuse problem,
alcohol, whatever it may be, like I'm fully on board with getting them the help

(01:14:58):
they need, but that doesn't mean that we then vacate the consequence or this bad behavior here.
Like we should do both. Like it's not one or the other.
Listen, if you don't make it hurt a little bit, like you're not going to change.
Right. You're just not going to change. And so this idea of,
of trying to just promote.

(01:15:19):
Ways to rehabilitate and ways to help, I think it permeates down through the
entire criminal justice system right now,
but it is definitely a huge problem in the juvenile criminal justice system
because there is no focus on consequences, punishment.
It's all focused on how can we rehabilitate this person to make them a constructive person in society.

(01:15:45):
And the other thing that I find so interesting is that many of the people who
are promoting this idea that, hey, a juvenile's brain is not fully formed,
and so they're making decisions, and they don't fully have the brain capacity or...

(01:16:06):
Brain growth to make wise decisions are generally, and who believe that kids
should not be held accountable with consequences or punishment,
are generally a lot of the same people who believe that if a small child says,
hey, I want to be a little girl instead of a little boy or a little boy instead

(01:16:26):
of a little girl, are like, oh yeah, they know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.
There's a reason why we don't allow 12-year-olds to vote.
There's a reason why we don't allow eight-year-olds to drive correct
because they aren't developed that's obvious right
but there is a level of responsibility and
decision making that they can make from a very young age and i'm talking very

(01:16:50):
young i'm talking yes like months old right can start training a child to act
correctly and i remember my kids when they you know started the a crawl.
Yeah. And the things they wanted to get into, like put their finger in an outlet.
Don't do that. Don't do that. And my wife and I, we used a form of corporal punishment.

(01:17:14):
If they reached for something we didn't want to reach for, we would snap their hand. You child abuser.
That's what people would say, right? Yeah. Yeah. But that was part of the training process.
So, I mean, Ultimately, it funnels back down into a family problem because the
police can't solve this problem. They cannot.

(01:17:34):
That's not their job. That's not the mission. It's not the mission of law enforcement.
It might be the mission of like the corrections or of probation or of.
I don't even think it's the mission of them. Yeah. I don't know their mission.
So, but I think their mission is not, it's not working. Right.
Corrections or juvenile probation well specifically

(01:17:55):
we're talking about juvenile probation it's not working right most of the times
when a juvenile gets arrested it doesn't go into like a regular court
system it goes into the juvenile system right so there's different like
and i think right rightly so there's probably there's some different like gradings
and it's just like it's more about getting the kid help than punishing right
disciplining and i think i think if you have a kid who is engaged in criminal behavior,

(01:18:22):
it's too late for that.
Or I shouldn't say it's too late for them.
What I'm saying is that the criminal justice system should not be worried about the rehabilitation.
They should be worried purely about the consequences of action.
I think there's part... You can do both. In my opinion, you can do both.
Just like you said, dealing with the bad... The cop that made a mistake.

(01:18:44):
You should be able to do both. It's It's just probably two different systems
kind of working together, but it's not, that's not a police officer's job.
Well, and it's really no one's job outside the family. It's a breakdown of the family.
I think it goes back to exactly what you said earlier, like a lack of father
figures and, and, and such.
I think the one thing that I thought about when I,

(01:19:05):
when I was, when I was thinking about this and I looking at all these articles
and stuff is one thing that we have completely wrong in this country when it
comes to criminal justice,
when it comes to crime, when it comes to punishment, is we believe that mercy
is owed and justice is given instead of justice is owed and mercy is given.

(01:19:30):
And we've completely- Did you write that down?
I did. I had it on a note here. That's a loaded quote.
Say it again, though, because I kind of was being a jerk a little bit. Listen, I got it.
R.C. Sproul definitely had some, the great pastor and theologian definitely
had some saying, he has espoused this. Yeah, so say it again.
And it's not his thought. This is a biblical truth.

(01:19:53):
This is a biblical truth.
Justice, we're confused in this country. We believe mercy is owed and justice
is given. given instead of justice is owed and mercy is given.
The fact is that sin, that bad things, that doing bad things, I mean, honestly,

(01:20:17):
what's crazy about this conversation is it always goes back to the gospel. Because it's the truth.
Because it's the truth. And we live in a society where we want to come up with
man-made philosophies and thoughts and man-made logics because we don't want
to believe what God has said to be true because we actually hate him. Correct.

(01:20:39):
People might not say that, but they want nothing to do with him and his precepts,
his laws, his rules, his way of life, which actually leads to happiness and joy and peace.
Right. So we've decided to, we're seeking after that, but we're seeking it in the wrong places.
So we make up our own minds as to how we're going to react to these situations.

(01:21:02):
And we're talking criminal behavior.
We're not talking, you're right, we're not talking putting a finger in a socket.
We're talking criminal behavior by juveniles.
And the society in which we live at this point, the government has decided that we're not going to.
Hand out justice, we're going to be merciful, which is completely opposite of

(01:21:23):
the biblical truth of the way God has designed mankind.
And it doesn't mean that the government and the government authorities or law
enforcement or the criminal justice system can't give mercy.
Because that happens every single day. Because God is merciful.
Right. And we ought to be merciful people. Right. Yet justice is to be handed out. Right.

(01:21:46):
And it caused me to think about Romans 13 again, that God has put those people
in government in those positions, and he's given them a sword for a reason.
And the idea is justice, justice, justice, justice.
The idea of mercy is, it's given, it's a gift.

(01:22:12):
It's the given, what is expected, what should happen is justice.
In all these cases, when we talk about these juveniles, justice should be doled
out. I don't care if you're 12. I don't care if you're 13.
I don't care how old you are. If you're out there making decisions to hurt other
people or take other people's property, justice is owed.

(01:22:35):
You're not owed mercy. You're not owed mercy. And we have this feeling or we
have this thought and philosophy that that mercy is what is actually owed.
Correct. Like instead of the sword of Romans 13, we're handing out lollipops.
We're holding lollipops. That's what we're holding.
And it's why we are where we are, right? Right. I mean, that's the reason why. Yeah.

(01:22:58):
Because basically we've declared ourselves to know better. Yeah.
Like as a country, as a culture, we've said, we know better.
Our morality is based on every individual person.
It's not based on like a standard, you know? Yeah, you make it up as you go.
You make it up as you go. And so- We evolve.

(01:23:19):
I mean, it all comes back to, I mean, I think it comes back to Darwin.
It goes way back before that but like darwin is like where we
like we're evolving right so
like we're seeking after the better and this
is the better way is to just be merciful and not have any justice at all yeah
yeah yeah it's i i just i was i was intrigued as i was i was doing the outline

(01:23:44):
looking at these cases i thought about thought about the statement that i had heard rc And I was like,
that, that's, that, that is the answer.
Justice owed. Mercy given at times, depending on the case, justice owed.
It's, it's a hundred percent right. Except when it's a law enforcement officer
who does something that we don't think is right. Then it's justice is owed.

(01:24:08):
Never mercy. And never mercy. Interesting. Yeah.
Which is wild because that's your authority who's been put in place to be the
one who has the sword and punish and goes out, fights after evil and praises the good.
But instead, it's like opposite world, dude. And that's the world system.

(01:24:31):
For sure. It is the world system. It's the world system. We're being deceived.
We're believing a lie. We're not believing what is true when we believe that
mercy is owed and justice is.
It's wild to me that the message of the cross can come into a conversation about

(01:24:52):
this and can bring clarity to a conversation like this.
Because I think there's so much confusion in our world, in our culture.
Excuse me. I think there's so much confusion because people,
like, they don't know truth.
So if you are a professing Christian and you know the truth and you know the

(01:25:15):
truth of the cross, you know the truth of the gospel,
you understand that you are a sinner and that you deserve justice. Yes.
But you also understand and receive what Christ has done for you on the cross,
that he's taken your sin, excuse me. Are you all right, dude?
Yeah. And imputed his righteousness unto you.

(01:25:39):
Like, it just brings a level of clarity even to this conversation.
The fact that justice is owed and mercy is given.
And I think, you know, we talk about a lot of things on this podcast,
but, you know, So I don't think any are as important as the truth of the word,
the truth of the gospel, the truth of Christ, the truth of the cross.

(01:26:02):
Like, I don't think any are as important as that. Yeah, I agree.
And when you hear us say justice is owed, we're not saying that the thief who
stole a car deserves death.
No, that's not what we're saying. Not in society. That's not what we're saying.
We're just saying there has to be some level of justice.
There has to be some type of punishment.
Like, I don't know what that looks like. But like, it looks like something other than what we're doing.

(01:26:27):
Completely opposite of what we're doing. I mean, if you're this 12 year old,
he's just walking the street.
They're doing nothing to him. They can't do anything to him.
So I'm going to keep pursuing evil because I don't care. And nobody else obviously cares.
And then the question is, is that love?
Because what if he crosses the path of the wrong person? And they're like,
oh, you're trying to steal my car? Which is what happened.

(01:26:49):
Right. Now that was a little different. They were actually shooting at that
guy. But let's say he just crosses the path of a person who is like,
no, you're not taking my car.
And in fact, I'll kill you to keep you from taking my car.
Have we in the law enforcement community done that 12-year-old a good thing or a bad thing?
Have we helped him or not helped him?

(01:27:09):
And that's also the confusion. What is love?
Is love just allowing?
Someone to do whatever they want, whatever they want. want to
to to act on whatever feelings they have
which is where we're at you you just you act
on whatever feelings you have you do you your
truth is your truth you just do whatever you want is that is that how we raise

(01:27:32):
our kids is that love if our kids are like i don't care what you say dad like
this is what i want to do and i'm like okay you do you you know i love you all
i want to eat is tasty cakes yeah and you're like no you have to have some broccoli
and they're like well i'm not I'm not doing that.
I don't feel like it. I'm going to eat just Tasty Cakes. Well,
you're a terrible father if you let them do that. You are a terrible father.

(01:27:54):
You're not loving them. You're not loving them. Right. Yeah.
You're an unloving father if you do that. And if you catch them at 9 p.m.
At night sneaking out of the room to eat Tasty Cakes and you slap their hand.
We're saving them maybe from diabetes. The beaties. The beaties. Got them.
Yeah, man. All right. Good conversation, Gary. Yeah.

(01:28:16):
Man, we were all over the place in this episode.
We had to throw it together fast, though. Dude, we hammered it out.
Yeah. Our schedule's a while, dude. Dude, I got kids playing sports.
I got kids playing sports.
That's basically what it is. And work and all this stuff. But yeah.
Oh, man. Episode 19. It's in the books, I guess, as they say, right? In the book.

(01:28:40):
This was fire. Isn't that what they say, too? This episode was fire.
I wish. Is that what they said? You know what? I'm going to start muting you
at the end of episodes. Because I just say dumb stuff?
Yeah, you just. Well, how do you want to end it, dude? You feel like you don't
need to. You feel this need that you have to have a closing.
I like to fade off into the sunset. I bring the music in. We fade out as the

(01:29:02):
music plays. The music's already playing.
Music.

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