May 28, 2025 • 38 mins
After finding fame on season seven of Married At First Sight in 2020, Hayley become one of the first brides to join OnlyFans and then progressed into hardcore porn, escorting and touring the world as an award winning, adult star. During this time, she was so proud, vocal and unashamed about her career... but she has since realised, having now quit the industry, she was lying not just to Australia, but herself.
In this interview, Hayley reveals the reality of being a sex worker, expresses her regret at how she did help normalize pornography, reveals how she's turned her life around and offers me advice on my relationship with Stefano.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome back to the Maths Funny podcast and
also to the Josh and Stefano side podcast series, because
this episode today covers both of these things. So last
night I caught up with Hailey Vernon, who many of
you may remember as the outspoken and unfiltered bride from
season seven of Married at First Sight, and some of
(00:20):
you may also know her as one of the first
MATHS brides, not just to join only fans like four
or five years ago, when it was this new thing
that everyone was kind of judging and shocked about, but
she was so proud and open about the fact she
was on there, and she continued being so proud and
open about the fact that she progressed from selling topless
(00:41):
pictures to then soft content with other people, to eventually
hardcore upon and becoming a high class escort. But what
you will hear in this episode is that pride that
she had and was so open about as she boasted
about this career. It was all fake and she was pretending.
And I wanted to catch up with Hailey in this
(01:02):
episode for two reasons. Firstly, because over the last year
and a half, not only has she quit the industry
and found God, and a new purpose in her life.
But she's now so against that world, and she has
so much regret, and she wants to speak out to
highlight the real impact that job had on her at
a time when sex work is becoming more and more
(01:23):
normalized in the media, and I suppose society, so many
people do glamorize how much they're making on there, and
they both have becoming rich and famous and showing off,
you know, their designer bags and mansions and all that.
But Hailey really wants people to know the actual reality
of doing that job. And secondly, as I'm now faced
with this dilemma in my own personal life, as I
(01:46):
figure out if I can accept my partner Stefano doing
OnlyFans as a job and him having to sleep with
other people for his content, I wanted to get Hailey's
thoughts on this as a friend and also as someone
who been for and against that industry and knows it
more than like, well, probably most people.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Before I do play out our chat.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Though, just for a bit more background context, I've been
friends with Hailey for years now. I met her as
she was filming her season. I then started helping her
out with media stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I was doing.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Paparazzi pictures of her, We're doing articles for the Daily Mail,
And I remember as her season wrapped on TV, she
actually asked me, do you think I should join OnlyFans?
And I said, go for it, like if you're comfortable.
She'd done topless waitressing in her past years before that,
and those pictures had kind of started to leak, and
you know, that content was out there, so it was like, well,
(02:40):
if you can make money, now, why not. And I've
always been so pro any kind of sex work. And
I think if someone can make money off their body
in a way they're comfortable doing, then great, And especially
women who you know, often grow up being shamed for
their bodies and being treated as objects. Like if they
can and flip that script almost and profit from the
(03:03):
thing that men are gonna objectify regardless, then good on them.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And as Hailey's adult career progressed.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Over the years she was doing that work, there was
a time I even filmed some scenes for her. I
would edit some of her content. I was still helping
with media to promote her as a famous escort, and
I was even there as her day at the Adult
Industry Choice Awards when she won Best Newcomer Female pond
start in twenty twenty two, and I always believe that
(03:32):
she truly loved what she was doing and she was
so proud of it. And since she quit the industry,
we haven't actually had this chat until now. Hello, Hailey Vernon,
how are you? I'm very good. How are you doing on.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Good with creating controversy on the internet.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, I'm having a minor life crisis and I'm turning
to you as a friend in need.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I'm here for you, for you. What was I going
to say to you?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Was that real that you plus stood about consoling Stefano?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Was that yesterday that that happened? Was it like in
real time?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That everything you've just watched was yesterday.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So he broke down after seeing the comments about work.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, I think like he's proud of like, you know,
he's not ashamed of doing only fans his family.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
His friend was like, he's made a good income and
a life for himself. But I think he's never really
had any negativity attached to it until now and seeing
that in the dynamic of you know, it's not just
him as a creator, it's him as a creator now
in a relationship.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah, yeah, which is like a whole different kettle of fish.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And he went into this project with me thinking his
partner would just have to accept it, you know, because
that's his income. And I think he's slowly challenging that
fart And you know, I've only known the guy almost
three weeks. That you can't do that overnight.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
It's funny because when I was a and creator, I
had the same expectation as what Stefano had that I
would find someone and then they'd have to be okay
with it, because work is work and a sexualized relationship
with love in it is different, two different things.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Right, And then it just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
And looking back on it, I just realized how selfish
I was normalizing something that just isn't normal. And our
society has gone so far over to one extreme, this
like hyper sexualization of making an income from sexual activity
(05:39):
so normal that it's.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Kind of like this woke mentality.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I'm trying to put it into words, but we've gone
so far over where we're expecting these out of the ordinary,
very not normal situations to be looked at as like normality.
And it's a hell of a lot of pressure for
someone else on the other side to put up with.
And it also like it pushes a lot of trauma
(06:06):
onto the other person as well, and it just I
think it minimizes.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
The person that's coming into.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
The relationship exactly like how they how they're feeling, and
what they're going through.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And just like I kind of see it as selfish.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I get that, and I would say if I knew
this about and beforehand, it would be selfish. But you know,
because of how we were much it's not like I
made that choice. And now I'm like, no, change your
whole life.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And you know, you don't expect someone to change their
whole life either, and like I wouldn't have when like
guys approached me, I was the same Stefan and I
was like, oh, well, I don't know all the ins
and outs of what he said to you, but I
was like, I'm not changing, you know what I'm doing.
This is what i'm doing. I'm empowered by it. I'm
making an income. And then now I've like seen it
(06:58):
on the on the other foot, and I'm just like
it was Yeah, I just I just feel like it's
and it's not that Stefano or myself were in positions
where we couldn't do other things.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Are we normalizing the fact that this is a quick,
easy buck.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I think, like in the chats I've had with him,
like he, you know, coming here from Argentina, he would
have to.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Study a lot to be a lawyer here, Like he.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Was at home and he his friends who are also
from South America, like you know, they're just doing casual,
bad jobs waiting and he's like, I don't want to
go back to that, Like I look at the lifestyle
this has afforded me, Like he's questioning if he steps away,
what does he do because if he gets the jobs
like his friends have got, you know, he's incomes, what
(07:42):
of what he's making now, I assume, and he can't afford,
you know, to live on his own.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And yeah, there's a lot at touched to him.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah, there's there's there's a lot of balance out, but
there's also a lot of options, Like this doesn't need
to be a long term thing.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Is he planning on doing this forever?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
No, he says it's not forever, but he's not really
far about the logistics of that.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, I suppose, like I don't know in my position
if I really loved someone, then I'd make a gain
plan out of it, because the love would supersede the monetary.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Value of what I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
You know, it kind of depends where he wants to
go with this and how far in the relationship he is.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
What was it like for you, because obviously, just to
let the listeners know, like our backstory, I'm at you
when you were filming Maths, which is good.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Was six years ago? Now was it ag fucking then? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You know we were working together doing media stuff and
then you join only fans and you know you started
off topless like everyone else. Then it progressed and progressed,
and then I was there blooty next year when you
won't best New come upon star at the Adult.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Also also filmed some in hotel room one night.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yes I did tell you going down on a woman,
but like I got to know that world for you,
and like I remember when I filmed you and Tori
have sad and like we're all giggling in between, and
like I saw it was just acting. It wasn't like
intimate sex that I do have with my partner, you know,
Like so I differentiate like that because of what I
(09:14):
learned through you essentially. But then in the times in
the last year or so, when we've not really spoken,
you've gone off and you've like done a full three
sixty one eighty.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Oh, you've done a bit of both. Started off as
a one eighty and got to a three sixty.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, because you started up Pond and then it was
like extreme Pond, like you're going around Eastern Europe, like
you're on worldwide tours as a Pond start and you're
doing the escort and then you're making so much money
and you always felt, well, you always said you were
so empowered and proud of it and not ashamed, And
then so.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I think I was I was lying to myself, Josh.
I was sitting in this decision.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
No, I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
I don't know if anyone of the dreams of being
a sex worker do they. I honestly believe, sitting back
and looking at it now, that people do it because
like Stefano, they're so desperate for cash. At one specific
point and coming off the back of the TV show,
I couldn't go back into my career as a finance
broker and I was going to lose everything.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So I started off.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
As you like you said, with the topless photos and whatnot,
and then that progressed quite rapidly, and it was a
slippery slope, and I kept trying to justify it to
myself because of the money that I was being made
and slowly seen by seeing movie by movie, the more
people that I slept with, I became so deattached from
who I was as a human. And the thing is
(10:36):
is that you know, we can talk about this empowerment
and put a lot of self in it, but it
is just that it's acting. And you start acting so
much that you forget actually who you are and what
your values are, and.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
The line becomes quite blurred.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now I'm talking on behalf of myself, but I'm also
talking from a perspective where I've seen.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Lot.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I don't want to say low level sex workers. That
there's a spectrum to everything.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Right, You've got your low tier moneymakers and just the
stats on Only Fans, I think it's the average creator
makes between one hundred and fifty to five hundred dollars
a month.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
People aren't killing it on Only fans, right, And.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
It's the most over glorified platform. And you know, I
paid a part. I played a part in that, but
you start acting so much and becoming this character that
isn't you, that you actually forget to be you. And
then when it comes to interacting in everyday life and
normal conversations, you actually start getting riddled with anxiety and
(11:40):
fear because you're so used to standing on something that
is so far removed from who God has caused you
to be and who you were made to be, that
you just don't have a firm foundation anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That Yeah, that's crazy hearing you say that and reaching
that point. And it's interesting because I feel like every
year when we get new maths, people are new celebrities,
or anyone joins only funds, the first thing they seem
to do is.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Boast about how much they've made.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And I've always felt that is just them trying to
just to fight to themselves and like get validation from
the people who are you know, judging them, being like, well,
yeah I'm doing this, but look I've just made twenty
grand this month.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
The money is great. Like, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
When you first start, like you know, I went from
absolutely busting my balls quite frankly, like at a normal
nine to five job, walking overtime on the phone on emails,
you know, as a finance broker, to having extidential amounts
of money hitting my account that you know, I could
never have fathomed.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
So it's great at the start, but everything comes at
a cost. It comes at a cost, and it comes
at a cost personally. You lose yourself. You end up
losing your identity. You become so deattached from the normal
world that, like I said, you just you forget the
value of a dollar and it doesn't last. It's the
tree projectory is so steep and so fast, and it
(13:03):
comes down quite quickly as well. Now, like I said,
I was on the other end of the scale. So
that's not your average kind of creator. And now Sofano
is in a position where I don't know like his
whole story, but just say, for instance, he's going for
pr they're going to do like background checks, so I
don't know what his case is. Or you know, let's
talk about the average woman or the average male that
(13:24):
is on the platform as well. They go in, they're
going hard and fast, they get money that they haven't
had before. Then they start having all these problems. They
might start drinking to deal with what's going Actually going on,
you know, because they've been forced into a position that
they generally don't want to go in. And I'm not
saying that everyone has substance abuse issues, but then that
(13:46):
comes crashing down. You then have to step back into
the public eye. Now I've had conversations with you before, Joshua,
I was like, no, that's okay, Like I'm and this
is going to sound so big headed, but this is
what I actually thought.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I thought, Oh, well, you know, I've been on a
TV show.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Everyone knows what I do, so I'll be able to
step back into the normal workplace and no one will care.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Well, they do care. Society does care.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
It's not I what was I going to write on
a resume that I've been doing?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And then everyone knows and most employees these days will
jump on Google and do a search. Everything is up there.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It's taken me nineteen months to just get my videos
of porn Hub now only fans. The video content is
not copyrighted purely to OnlyFans, so my pornography is all
over the world.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Now, this isn't something.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
That I went into naive and thought, oh I knew
this was going to happen. But to the extent that
it was going to happen and it was going to
damage me.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I totally underestimated.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
And you know, this is someone like myself, who is
known and in some regard has a little bit more
leeway when going into industry because it is so public.
But your average Joe, average person, that is just so detrimental,
you know, unless you do crack that top tier, which
(15:08):
most people don't. But even then, like myself, I struggled.
I left, had to get a job, you know. And
there's nothing against the job that I'm about to say,
but I had to work at a call center at twenty
nine dollars an hour when I first left, just because
I would rather flip burgers and do a job like
that as opposed to putting so much of myself out
(15:29):
there for every single other person.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, I mean, a job's a job, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Like amen, And but that's that's the thing that I
say to all these girls, and I say to like
guys like Stefano, like.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
The statistics are just crazy.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
It's like, you know, only fans creators over between one
hundred and fifty to one hundred and eighty dollars per month.
The approximate monthly income is one thy eight hundred to
two thousand annually annually, right, So that's actually below the
medium Australia wage. So are we're exploiting ourselves for a
(16:04):
quick win that doesn't become a quick win which is
so detrimental you'll probably not be able to step foot
into a job where you could get minimum wage. Or
are you willing to just like flip a burger or
do something or is it your ego and your pride
where you just won't do anything that you would prefer
to put so much of yourself out there at the
cost of yourself and others, that you take such a
(16:27):
risk that's going to be following you around forever.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Do you think two points?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Firstly, do you think though employers and like you know,
back in the real world, people are more accepting now
because it has become so normalized.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
No, no, absolutely not, absolutely not. I think for like
the younger generations, sure it's become more accepting, but they're
not your bosses, they're not your employers. They don't want
their customers looking up and finding out things. It's hard
to get a proper job or to unless you're the
social media space or you're in radio media, maybe marketing
(17:06):
of some sorts in that really niche kind of. It's
the most employees and most business owners are of an
older demographic, or it's not as normalized as what people
think it is. And I am just yeah, I'm just
extremely sorry and apologetics that I played a part in
glorifying it, because porn shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Be made normal. And this isn't me shaming.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Sex workers, like sex work is work, but people like
myself who have come out the other end also have
an obligation to say it exactly what it is. It
is soul destroying. It breaks families, it ruins marriages. Pornography
it is so like so self centered. My younger sister,
(17:54):
members of my family to this day still get grief
through what my actions, and they'll probably continue to get
that for the next ten years.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Did you could you sorry? You just said so? You've
taken that call center job I was at last year? Like,
did you face any like prejudice discrimination? Did you when
you were applying for that and going through that process
like ensery.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I applied Josh for I think over probably two hundred
and fifty three hundred jobs.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Wow, I got to I got two calls.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
People knew my name, they knew who I was, and
I was just willing to do anything. I just knew
that I didn't want to go back to what I
went in. I ended up getting a job. I got
got it for two days, and then my accreditation for
what I'm currently doing at the moment came through.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
But I have absolutely busted myself since.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
The day that I left to never go back and
to never have it as a safety net, because it's
not a safety net for me personally. I actually think
it's entrapment, right because people get stack in this like
loophole and they have this like carrot of money dangled
in front of them, and then it really cuts off.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Your other avenues and it also isolates you.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, it's like a quick win for a long time.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It's kind it's kind of like drugs, right, like you
for anyone that's listening, it's going on drugs. You get
on the drugs, it's all happy, but you have to
keep going to maintain that kind of high, right, and
then it cuts you off from like your surroundings. It's
it's heavily toxic in my opinion, and.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Like that high.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Now as more and more people are on these platforms
like only Fans, He's getting harder to reach, like you
see in you know, when we were starting your Only
Fans and I was helping you in media, you know,
like just the fact that you a reality start was
admitting yeah, I'm doing Pond. Five years ago, that was
like top headline ever. ALM was so shocked and outraged,
(19:58):
you know, like, no way Hayley's doing that. And I
remember five years before that if someone had a topless
picture in the media, be like, oh my god, someone's
got a topless picture. Now, like look at you know
any night the OnlyFans girl on the Gold Coast last weekend,
I think she slept with five hundred and eighty three
people in six hours, Like what.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Is what is wrong with these girls?
Speaker 4 (20:18):
And like I hate saying that because like you know,
things like Anal I said, I'd never do they keep
moving the parameters and you're right, Josh, like five years
ago there was shock and aw to just admitting it.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Right, these girls and these men are having to do
more and.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
More and more and more and more in order to
earn a dollar.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Like where where does it end? I suppose is.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Like where does it end?
Speaker 6 (20:43):
You know, like you just have to go on TikTok
these days, and like TikTok is a platform that's not
designed for over eighteen year old and listen to girls
sitting there with the water cash glorifying it, talking about
their experience and their customers.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
We've got young women and young.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Men under the age of eighteen watching this and like
I'm the first to admit it, like I did it.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I spoke about it on my Instagram.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
But I can tell you now, the day that I
got to Thailand after filming overseas for a bigger, big
national company, I looked at myself and my eyes were
so black. I was riddle with anxiety. I was almost
manic depressant. I had disassociated with myself for so long
that I didn't know whether I was coming or going.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I just didn't know. I just knew that I couldn't
do it anymore.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
And it just comes to a point where you just break,
you know, And if you don't break me and you
we both know people in the industry that are older
that can never get out of it now because they've
reached the point of being able to do something else.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
That's true, and just to go back to like what
you say, like young impressional girls, like how do you
think a twelve year old or a thirteen year old
girl who is constantly being faed tiktoks and Instagram reels
of these girls like come with me to sleep with
five hundred men? I've just thousand men challenged. It was
a girl in England recently who.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Did I think it was a Bonnie Blue.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
No, there was another one. So Bonnie did a thousand member.
There was a girl who did the one hundred.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Men backdoor challenge and that was just you know what
I mean. But like these extremes associated with sex, it
might not be normalized in society, but on social media
to scroll on the for you, this is now the normal.
And like I suppose for these young girls like who
were learning to maybe figure out their sexuality, and it's.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Grooming, isn't it's it's groomed.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
It's grooming young women into thinking it's normality.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
You know, the human mind is not designed to take
on board that much information a day. And look at
all the information that's just getting shoved in these young girls' heads.
You know, we talk about you know, when I was younger,
it was all about that body image. You know, we
had like Dolly magazine and all these things coming out,
and now like it's just so intense, like the pendulum
has strung swung so far over to the other side.
(23:03):
And a Paul, for instance, look at her cult following
that she has. She's selling cute little lip glosses and
hair ties and makeup products and has you know, sharpies
on her car to write cute messages, and she's she's
making porn. Her moms are lining up with their kids
(23:24):
to get these girl's products, and she's doing porn.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And yeah, and like this is the new type of
Like do you remember twenty years ago you'd line up
to meet a pop star, But now this is the reality.
Girls are lighting up to me upon star who they aregalize.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
It's crazy, isn't it crazy?
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It's so insane And I don't know how we got
to get it back.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I don't even know if it's possible now. I think
it's too far gone.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
All I know is that people like myself need to
come out and speak about the other other side of it,
because you know, people are always gonna come at me
and be like, you know, you had all this money
I did, but I like also lost a lot of
money as well, because I wasn't financially mature enough to
be able to handle it.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Because it came in.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Quickly and at went quickly, and thank god it went quickly,
because God knows what would have happened if yed had
stayed in my hand for too long.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But you know, my.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Perception of you is you were always sensible that like
you did invest. You still have properties.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah, yeah, I still I still have my house, I
still have You know, I wasn't it wasn't stupid, but
I was like I could have done better with it,
of course, but you know, it helped out.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
My family, But I am yeah, I lost myself.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
It's what's It's been twenty months, I think a year
and a half. Yeah, twenty months since I left the industry,
and I reckon just really the last seven months, I've
fully become content and comfortable with who I am again.
(25:00):
And even now I'm a fairly confident person. Let you know,
there's I still have situations where I'm sitting in public
and I actually said too sorry just to get off
the topic, but it's relatable to what I'm saying. I
actually said to my client's husband the other day. So
I do support services and I work for a Christian couple.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
They're amazing. And I started crying.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Every Sunday they have people at their house, and I
can get so awkward around normal conversation and normal people
because I'm actually relearning how to assimilate back.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Into society as just.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Who I am, because I was living a life so
outside of who I actually have been my whole life
that I forgot how to interact and how to be
normal somewhat. And his family and friends left and I
just said, you know what, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I feel so safe here.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And I started crying and he said, we know it's
hard for you, Hailey, Like you're doing great, and I'm
like having to relearn a sense of normality again because
the only fans and the hyper sexualization and everything that
is that adult industry.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
It's not normal. It's not real life.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
We need to get away from making it real life
because those people when they exit the industry and come
back into the norm as such, right like if you
aways put parameters on it, it's like it's.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
A struggle, Like it's a real struggle.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
And I'm still dealing with the flow on effect from
that after being in it for five years.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Was there a specific incident with you that, like, I know,
it sounds like it was a gradual realization of losing yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
What was there like because a lot of people assume that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
World is dangerous, and you know you were escort in
as well, which is a whole different level. But was
there any specific I think that's.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
The thing, Josh.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
I think I went on a podcast with you or
with stuff prior to doing this. When I first started,
only things I'm like, I'd never do, I'd never become
a new score. That's excelling your soul, and like what
we're saying about that natural progression, like, look where I
ended up, and it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I don't think it was one thing, but I can
remember the point with a penny drop.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
So I went to London the week before I decided
to pull the pin, and for months following I had
started stuttering when I was speaking because I was thinking
so much about what I was saying, and I was
just anxious, and all this stuff had started to bubble
to the surface. And I was sitting in a room
(27:36):
with two really well known pawn stars from the US
that had flown to the UK. I was in London
at the time, and I was sitting there and I
was having a discussion with a woman. She was forty
eight point fifty, and I'd actually had discussions with people
prior about what I would do if I was to
(27:57):
leave the oudur industry, and I started using language like
or like what else am I supposed to do?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
When?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
You know, so that obviously started taking a clear hit
on my confidence and what I was able to do.
And you know, people start saying, oh, you're just an escort,
you just this, You just that, you start.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
To believe it, right.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
So, when I was on this set, this lady was
speaking to me, and she was late forties, and she
just it was so evidently clear that she was stuck
and that she was you know, obviously like very glamorous
(28:34):
and everything. But when she was talking to me, she
was talking about like that she never got to have kids,
and just different things throughout her life. And I just
remember in that instance, thinking I need to get out
of here, and I need to do it now because
if I don't, I'm going to be her. And I
knew it was going to be hard. And that's the thing.
(28:55):
It's a big band aid to rip off, but it's
so worth it. And and someone actually compared it to
an analogy that when you know, when you base jump,
you base jump and the parachutees wrapped up and you'll
bump and you'll fall, but then the parachute opens and
your glide, but you just have to take that jump
or you just end up sitting in a situation that's
(29:18):
uncomfortable but you're content with.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, And I think that's interesting. You say, how you
know you started to see that result? You were because
even last week Stephano and I he couldn't sleep, and
you know, you're kind of just talking into the early
hours in the dark, lay next to each other, and
he was saying, like the feedback from the content we've
done so far before mentioning only fans, like he's been overwhelmed,
(29:43):
how so many people are seeing him for like just
how lovely he is, how sweet he is, how caring
gears and like over the last few years, as his
only fans has blown up, because I think on Twitter
he's got like two hundred thousand followers, Like he's big
in that, you know, the gate on world, Like he'd
started to see over the last few years that all
he is to most people is the size of his
(30:06):
dick or his body or you know, like and he
says like before he ever started on the fans, when
someone says Stephan, no, they know him for his brain
or he's hot or you know, his smile. And then
at some point he's lost sight of maybe who he is.
And then through what we're doing in the chats we're having,
he slowly like, it's not good? Is that?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
How Like? Honestly, how good is that?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Because he has objectified himself and then become objectified by
others where all they talk about is what they see
and totally can relate to that as well, because people like, yes,
exactly exactly the same thing. It's like when you're like, oh,
I am actually nice, I do have something to offer
to the table. But when no one gives an absolute
(30:49):
flying f about anything other than what's between your legs,
he thinks that that's your value. And then if people
aren't complimenting, you have to look like, this is the thing.
You have to learn to learn that like through people, unfortunately,
not even your own validation, Like, because if he saw
that within himself, you'd know that, right yea, So he
wouldn't need to search it outside of himself, but this
(31:12):
validation is coming from other people outside of himself, so
you become insecure. You're looking for validation through the external,
through what you're actually looking what you look like through
the superficial as opposed.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
To like knowing your self worth.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
And so now like he's getting it reconfirmed by strangers,
which is sad within itself because he's lost who he
is through doing this.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, and I suppose now, I mean with me and him,
it's like I understand all you're using it, but I
still think deep down that that can be a balance.
I don't know whether it's solo content as you like
he goes to that solo content whilst exploring different career opportunities,
(32:02):
do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Like one hundred percent, I think I think it's a
worthwhile conversation.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
You know, at the end of the day, it's this
is like totally my perspective on it from being like,
you know, in my shoes and as a couple, you
need to navigate that, but you need to be comfortable
with it as well, and he needs to be comfortable
with it. But what a great thing that would be
for him to realize that he's so much more than
that and getting a game plan to get out because
(32:29):
it's not something that has longevity, or maybe he's happy
with that.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
But.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I just know that. Remember when he said those conversations
with you and you feel like, oh, you know, the
right type of guy will like, you know, be okay
with it.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
And you know I said it to you like a
million times, like about getting a partner. I'm so thankful
because I would never want a date a man that
would be okay with me doing it because it shows
the values that he has. And I the type of
guy that I wanted would not want his missus showing
(33:05):
their bits and pieces to the world.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
He would just want it for a loving relationship.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, and I recall actually this a couple of years ago,
but I remember when you started to feel like you
were developing feelings with someone. But he was a client,
was he? And like I remember thinking about that, Well,
that's never going to be because he doesn't see you
as Hailey and all the things, and you know your
values and you as a person. He's he's paid you
(33:33):
for the hour and that's how you've met him.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And one hundred one hundred, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
But that's how low my self worth got because I
was like, you start to just push all your standards,
all your everything that you would have stood for just
dropped so much.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
NOA because kind of happy with what you can get
at that point.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
That's actually I don't think I ever told you this book.
Remember when you first started doing only funds and I
was kind of part of that journey with you.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And then remember I was briefly selling my socks.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And I just figured out, well, like that was not
that bad. You know. I look at Hailey and the
other girls are doing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And then this guy reaches out and he's like, I'll
buy your socks, And then that worked out.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I had to go to his house, sit there.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
For twenty minutes while he takes them off my feet
and has a sniff, and then I leave with a
few hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
He actually didn't tell me your book.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
But then I ended up like falling for this guy.
And then because it doesn't matter, yeah, like it was
he I think I wrote someone in the book like
he was paying so much attention and compliments to a
part of my body. I never cared for my feet
like he must love me, he must love all of
me and then like, obviously the guy never cared for
me in the slightest.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
See how desperate we came in that moment where like
we were just craving like any kind of love or
a texture attention because we were so broken.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah, we we.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Went whole and then I ended up giving him my
socks for free after that, because I thought we were
in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I got played.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
It's yeah, it's you know what it's I feel like
you need to get clear on what you want, Josh Sefan.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I need to get clear on what he wants.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
And if you both value your relationship, you will come
up with a plan moving forward, whether that's to cut
the only fans, to do something that you are both
happy with, find some middle ground. But ultimately you want
to mature a relationship where you have a husband who
(35:37):
isn't delving into sex work, and why couldn't this be
something that you guys eventuate into a marriage. I just
don't think that in any well formed relationship that showing
your partner to the world is in my eyes.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Is okay.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
And I've got those old school values like you were
talking about as well.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
It's funny I saw one of the comments.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
I was like, how could Josh have boltiicol values when
he slept with us to Sydney And now everyone's everyone's
gonna be listening to this thing, like she hocked yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Like, but I just.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
And I think I've said this to you in the
past when I was in that position, I couldn't could
never date someone that did only fans.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
How's the hypocrisy on that? There's there's no way I
could handle it.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, I mean you know this more than anyone, And yeah, no.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Way I could handle it, Like not a chance, you know,
And like, sure it's acting, but like there's times where
like things cross the line.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
It's sex.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
It's like primal sex, right, so you can have sex,
so you can enjoy it without love. How many people
did you excuse my language, how many people did you
fuck without love but you still enjoyed it?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Right?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, there's quite the list there.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, yeah, I don't want to go through it will
be here for a while, but.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
You know what I mean, Like, so I don't know,
it's just like it comes.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Down to.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
What you care about and what he cares about and
finding the middle ground and how badly I suppose she
wants a relationship over this.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
You know, it's just yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I appreciate the chat, and I thank you to think
about it, and I'm so happy that you are doing
so well these days. Like whether regardless of what you're doing,
it's just you've always been that person who you never
half asked someone.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Even from the damn me you and maths. You know
you want to do something, you do it. You do
it to the extreme.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And I suppose that's maybe it was detrimental when you
went into the poem world, because.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
There was also detrimental when I got into drugs.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, are you doing good enough? So that's good.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah, we're just gonna have a red hot crack and
everything you do. But yeah, I just I wish you
guys are the best. You're also one of the nicest
men that I know. You deserve it. You're well rounded,
you're strong but soft, You're multifaceted. Don't waiver on what
you want, Josh, stand tall and stand firm on the
(38:20):
foundations that you have because you've spent a lot of
time by yourself on the other end of all the
lows in your life.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
And I believe that you do know what you want.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Yeah, and that's really that's really important. We can't we
can't move our standards up and down to fit someone.
We have to be flexible, we have to compromise, but
this is far more than compromising.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Okay, well, I appreciate that, Haley, and I'm now going
to go have a big think
Speaker 4 (38:55):
All right, my love,
Hello, and welcome back to the Maths Funny podcast and
also to the Josh and Stefano side podcast series, because
this episode today covers both of these things. So last
night I caught up with Hailey Vernon, who many of
you may remember as the outspoken and unfiltered bride from
season seven of Married at First Sight, and some of
(00:20):
you may also know her as one of the first
MATHS brides, not just to join only fans like four
or five years ago, when it was this new thing
that everyone was kind of judging and shocked about, but
she was so proud and open about the fact she
was on there, and she continued being so proud and
open about the fact that she progressed from selling topless
(00:41):
pictures to then soft content with other people, to eventually
hardcore upon and becoming a high class escort. But what
you will hear in this episode is that pride that
she had and was so open about as she boasted
about this career. It was all fake and she was pretending.
And I wanted to catch up with Hailey in this
(01:02):
episode for two reasons. Firstly, because over the last year
and a half, not only has she quit the industry
and found God, and a new purpose in her life.
But she's now so against that world, and she has
so much regret, and she wants to speak out to
highlight the real impact that job had on her at
a time when sex work is becoming more and more
(01:23):
normalized in the media, and I suppose society, so many
people do glamorize how much they're making on there, and
they both have becoming rich and famous and showing off,
you know, their designer bags and mansions and all that.
But Hailey really wants people to know the actual reality
of doing that job. And secondly, as I'm now faced
with this dilemma in my own personal life, as I
(01:46):
figure out if I can accept my partner Stefano doing
OnlyFans as a job and him having to sleep with
other people for his content, I wanted to get Hailey's
thoughts on this as a friend and also as someone
who been for and against that industry and knows it
more than like, well, probably most people.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Before I do play out our chat.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Though, just for a bit more background context, I've been
friends with Hailey for years now. I met her as
she was filming her season. I then started helping her
out with media stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I was doing.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Paparazzi pictures of her, We're doing articles for the Daily Mail,
And I remember as her season wrapped on TV, she
actually asked me, do you think I should join OnlyFans?
And I said, go for it, like if you're comfortable.
She'd done topless waitressing in her past years before that,
and those pictures had kind of started to leak, and
you know, that content was out there, so it was like, well,
(02:40):
if you can make money, now, why not. And I've
always been so pro any kind of sex work. And
I think if someone can make money off their body
in a way they're comfortable doing, then great, And especially
women who you know, often grow up being shamed for
their bodies and being treated as objects. Like if they
can and flip that script almost and profit from the
(03:03):
thing that men are gonna objectify regardless, then good on them.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And as Hailey's adult career progressed.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Over the years she was doing that work, there was
a time I even filmed some scenes for her. I
would edit some of her content. I was still helping
with media to promote her as a famous escort, and
I was even there as her day at the Adult
Industry Choice Awards when she won Best Newcomer Female pond
start in twenty twenty two, and I always believe that
(03:32):
she truly loved what she was doing and she was
so proud of it. And since she quit the industry,
we haven't actually had this chat until now. Hello, Hailey Vernon,
how are you? I'm very good. How are you doing on.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Good with creating controversy on the internet.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, I'm having a minor life crisis and I'm turning
to you as a friend in need.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I'm here for you, for you. What was I going
to say to you?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Was that real that you plus stood about consoling Stefano?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Was that yesterday that that happened? Was it like in
real time?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That everything you've just watched was yesterday.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So he broke down after seeing the comments about work.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, I think like he's proud of like, you know,
he's not ashamed of doing only fans his family.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
His friend was like, he's made a good income and
a life for himself. But I think he's never really
had any negativity attached to it until now and seeing
that in the dynamic of you know, it's not just
him as a creator, it's him as a creator now
in a relationship.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah, yeah, which is like a whole different kettle of fish.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And he went into this project with me thinking his
partner would just have to accept it, you know, because
that's his income. And I think he's slowly challenging that
fart And you know, I've only known the guy almost
three weeks. That you can't do that overnight.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
It's funny because when I was a and creator, I
had the same expectation as what Stefano had that I
would find someone and then they'd have to be okay
with it, because work is work and a sexualized relationship
with love in it is different, two different things.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Right, And then it just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
And looking back on it, I just realized how selfish
I was normalizing something that just isn't normal. And our
society has gone so far over to one extreme, this
like hyper sexualization of making an income from sexual activity
(05:39):
so normal that it's.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Kind of like this woke mentality.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I'm trying to put it into words, but we've gone
so far over where we're expecting these out of the ordinary,
very not normal situations to be looked at as like normality.
And it's a hell of a lot of pressure for
someone else on the other side to put up with.
And it also like it pushes a lot of trauma
(06:06):
onto the other person as well, and it just I
think it minimizes.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
The person that's coming into.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
The relationship exactly like how they how they're feeling, and
what they're going through.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And just like I kind of see it as selfish.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I get that, and I would say if I knew
this about and beforehand, it would be selfish. But you know,
because of how we were much it's not like I
made that choice. And now I'm like, no, change your
whole life.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And you know, you don't expect someone to change their
whole life either, and like I wouldn't have when like
guys approached me, I was the same Stefan and I
was like, oh, well, I don't know all the ins
and outs of what he said to you, but I
was like, I'm not changing, you know what I'm doing.
This is what i'm doing. I'm empowered by it. I'm
making an income. And then now I've like seen it
(06:58):
on the on the other foot, and I'm just like
it was Yeah, I just I just feel like it's
and it's not that Stefano or myself were in positions
where we couldn't do other things.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Are we normalizing the fact that this is a quick,
easy buck.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I think, like in the chats I've had with him,
like he, you know, coming here from Argentina, he would
have to.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Study a lot to be a lawyer here, Like he.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Was at home and he his friends who are also
from South America, like you know, they're just doing casual,
bad jobs waiting and he's like, I don't want to
go back to that, Like I look at the lifestyle
this has afforded me, Like he's questioning if he steps away,
what does he do because if he gets the jobs
like his friends have got, you know, he's incomes, what
(07:42):
of what he's making now, I assume, and he can't afford,
you know, to live on his own.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And yeah, there's a lot at touched to him.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah, there's there's there's a lot of balance out, but
there's also a lot of options, Like this doesn't need
to be a long term thing.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Is he planning on doing this forever?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
No, he says it's not forever, but he's not really
far about the logistics of that.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, I suppose, like I don't know in my position
if I really loved someone, then I'd make a gain
plan out of it, because the love would supersede the monetary.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Value of what I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
You know, it kind of depends where he wants to
go with this and how far in the relationship he is.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
What was it like for you, because obviously, just to
let the listeners know, like our backstory, I'm at you
when you were filming Maths, which is good.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Was six years ago? Now was it ag fucking then? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You know we were working together doing media stuff and
then you join only fans and you know you started
off topless like everyone else. Then it progressed and progressed,
and then I was there blooty next year when you
won't best New come upon star at the Adult.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Also also filmed some in hotel room one night.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yes I did tell you going down on a woman,
but like I got to know that world for you,
and like I remember when I filmed you and Tori
have sad and like we're all giggling in between, and
like I saw it was just acting. It wasn't like
intimate sex that I do have with my partner, you know,
Like so I differentiate like that because of what I
(09:14):
learned through you essentially. But then in the times in
the last year or so, when we've not really spoken,
you've gone off and you've like done a full three
sixty one eighty.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Oh, you've done a bit of both. Started off as
a one eighty and got to a three sixty.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, because you started up Pond and then it was
like extreme Pond, like you're going around Eastern Europe, like
you're on worldwide tours as a Pond start and you're
doing the escort and then you're making so much money
and you always felt, well, you always said you were
so empowered and proud of it and not ashamed, And
then so.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I think I was I was lying to myself, Josh.
I was sitting in this decision.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
No, I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
I don't know if anyone of the dreams of being
a sex worker do they. I honestly believe, sitting back
and looking at it now, that people do it because
like Stefano, they're so desperate for cash. At one specific
point and coming off the back of the TV show,
I couldn't go back into my career as a finance
broker and I was going to lose everything.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So I started off.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
As you like you said, with the topless photos and whatnot,
and then that progressed quite rapidly, and it was a
slippery slope, and I kept trying to justify it to
myself because of the money that I was being made
and slowly seen by seeing movie by movie, the more
people that I slept with, I became so deattached from
who I was as a human. And the thing is
(10:36):
is that you know, we can talk about this empowerment
and put a lot of self in it, but it
is just that it's acting. And you start acting so
much that you forget actually who you are and what
your values are, and.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
The line becomes quite blurred.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now I'm talking on behalf of myself, but I'm also
talking from a perspective where I've seen.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Lot.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I don't want to say low level sex workers. That
there's a spectrum to everything.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Right, You've got your low tier moneymakers and just the
stats on Only Fans, I think it's the average creator
makes between one hundred and fifty to five hundred dollars
a month.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
People aren't killing it on Only fans, right, And.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
It's the most over glorified platform. And you know, I
paid a part. I played a part in that, but
you start acting so much and becoming this character that
isn't you, that you actually forget to be you. And
then when it comes to interacting in everyday life and
normal conversations, you actually start getting riddled with anxiety and
(11:40):
fear because you're so used to standing on something that
is so far removed from who God has caused you
to be and who you were made to be, that
you just don't have a firm foundation anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That Yeah, that's crazy hearing you say that and reaching
that point. And it's interesting because I feel like every
year when we get new maths, people are new celebrities,
or anyone joins only funds, the first thing they seem
to do is.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Boast about how much they've made.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And I've always felt that is just them trying to
just to fight to themselves and like get validation from
the people who are you know, judging them, being like, well,
yeah I'm doing this, but look I've just made twenty
grand this month.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
The money is great. Like, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
When you first start, like you know, I went from
absolutely busting my balls quite frankly, like at a normal
nine to five job, walking overtime on the phone on emails,
you know, as a finance broker, to having extidential amounts
of money hitting my account that you know, I could
never have fathomed.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
So it's great at the start, but everything comes at
a cost. It comes at a cost, and it comes
at a cost personally. You lose yourself. You end up
losing your identity. You become so deattached from the normal
world that, like I said, you just you forget the
value of a dollar and it doesn't last. It's the
tree projectory is so steep and so fast, and it
(13:03):
comes down quite quickly as well. Now, like I said,
I was on the other end of the scale. So
that's not your average kind of creator. And now Sofano
is in a position where I don't know like his
whole story, but just say, for instance, he's going for
pr they're going to do like background checks, so I
don't know what his case is. Or you know, let's
talk about the average woman or the average male that
(13:24):
is on the platform as well. They go in, they're
going hard and fast, they get money that they haven't
had before. Then they start having all these problems. They
might start drinking to deal with what's going Actually going on,
you know, because they've been forced into a position that
they generally don't want to go in. And I'm not
saying that everyone has substance abuse issues, but then that
(13:46):
comes crashing down. You then have to step back into
the public eye. Now I've had conversations with you before, Joshua,
I was like, no, that's okay, Like I'm and this
is going to sound so big headed, but this is
what I actually thought.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I thought, Oh, well, you know, I've been on a
TV show.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Everyone knows what I do, so I'll be able to
step back into the normal workplace and no one will care.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Well, they do care. Society does care.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
It's not I what was I going to write on
a resume that I've been doing?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And then everyone knows and most employees these days will
jump on Google and do a search. Everything is up there.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It's taken me nineteen months to just get my videos
of porn Hub now only fans. The video content is
not copyrighted purely to OnlyFans, so my pornography is all
over the world.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Now, this isn't something.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
That I went into naive and thought, oh I knew
this was going to happen. But to the extent that
it was going to happen and it was going to
damage me.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I totally underestimated.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
And you know, this is someone like myself, who is
known and in some regard has a little bit more
leeway when going into industry because it is so public.
But your average Joe, average person, that is just so detrimental,
you know, unless you do crack that top tier, which
(15:08):
most people don't. But even then, like myself, I struggled.
I left, had to get a job, you know. And
there's nothing against the job that I'm about to say,
but I had to work at a call center at twenty
nine dollars an hour when I first left, just because
I would rather flip burgers and do a job like
that as opposed to putting so much of myself out
(15:29):
there for every single other person.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, I mean, a job's a job, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Like amen, And but that's that's the thing that I
say to all these girls, and I say to like
guys like Stefano, like.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
The statistics are just crazy.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
It's like, you know, only fans creators over between one
hundred and fifty to one hundred and eighty dollars per month.
The approximate monthly income is one thy eight hundred to
two thousand annually annually, right, So that's actually below the
medium Australia wage. So are we're exploiting ourselves for a
(16:04):
quick win that doesn't become a quick win which is
so detrimental you'll probably not be able to step foot
into a job where you could get minimum wage. Or
are you willing to just like flip a burger or
do something or is it your ego and your pride
where you just won't do anything that you would prefer
to put so much of yourself out there at the
cost of yourself and others, that you take such a
(16:27):
risk that's going to be following you around forever.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Do you think two points?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Firstly, do you think though employers and like you know,
back in the real world, people are more accepting now
because it has become so normalized.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
No, no, absolutely not, absolutely not. I think for like
the younger generations, sure it's become more accepting, but they're
not your bosses, they're not your employers. They don't want
their customers looking up and finding out things. It's hard
to get a proper job or to unless you're the
social media space or you're in radio media, maybe marketing
(17:06):
of some sorts in that really niche kind of. It's
the most employees and most business owners are of an
older demographic, or it's not as normalized as what people
think it is. And I am just yeah, I'm just
extremely sorry and apologetics that I played a part in
glorifying it, because porn shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Be made normal. And this isn't me shaming.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Sex workers, like sex work is work, but people like
myself who have come out the other end also have
an obligation to say it exactly what it is. It
is soul destroying. It breaks families, it ruins marriages. Pornography
it is so like so self centered. My younger sister,
(17:54):
members of my family to this day still get grief
through what my actions, and they'll probably continue to get
that for the next ten years.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Did you could you sorry? You just said so? You've
taken that call center job I was at last year? Like,
did you face any like prejudice discrimination? Did you when
you were applying for that and going through that process
like ensery.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I applied Josh for I think over probably two hundred
and fifty three hundred jobs.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Wow, I got to I got two calls.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
People knew my name, they knew who I was, and
I was just willing to do anything. I just knew
that I didn't want to go back to what I
went in. I ended up getting a job. I got
got it for two days, and then my accreditation for
what I'm currently doing at the moment came through.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
But I have absolutely busted myself since.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
The day that I left to never go back and
to never have it as a safety net, because it's
not a safety net for me personally. I actually think
it's entrapment, right because people get stack in this like
loophole and they have this like carrot of money dangled
in front of them, and then it really cuts off.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Your other avenues and it also isolates you.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, it's like a quick win for a long time.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It's kind it's kind of like drugs, right, like you
for anyone that's listening, it's going on drugs. You get
on the drugs, it's all happy, but you have to
keep going to maintain that kind of high, right, and
then it cuts you off from like your surroundings. It's
it's heavily toxic in my opinion, and.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Like that high.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Now as more and more people are on these platforms
like only Fans, He's getting harder to reach, like you
see in you know, when we were starting your Only
Fans and I was helping you in media, you know,
like just the fact that you a reality start was
admitting yeah, I'm doing Pond. Five years ago, that was
like top headline ever. ALM was so shocked and outraged,
(19:58):
you know, like, no way Hayley's doing that. And I
remember five years before that if someone had a topless
picture in the media, be like, oh my god, someone's
got a topless picture. Now, like look at you know
any night the OnlyFans girl on the Gold Coast last weekend,
I think she slept with five hundred and eighty three
people in six hours, Like what.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Is what is wrong with these girls?
Speaker 4 (20:18):
And like I hate saying that because like you know,
things like Anal I said, I'd never do they keep
moving the parameters and you're right, Josh, like five years
ago there was shock and aw to just admitting it.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Right, these girls and these men are having to do
more and.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
More and more and more and more in order to
earn a dollar.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Like where where does it end? I suppose is.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Like where does it end?
Speaker 6 (20:43):
You know, like you just have to go on TikTok
these days, and like TikTok is a platform that's not
designed for over eighteen year old and listen to girls
sitting there with the water cash glorifying it, talking about
their experience and their customers.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
We've got young women and young.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Men under the age of eighteen watching this and like
I'm the first to admit it, like I did it.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I spoke about it on my Instagram.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
But I can tell you now, the day that I
got to Thailand after filming overseas for a bigger, big
national company, I looked at myself and my eyes were
so black. I was riddle with anxiety. I was almost
manic depressant. I had disassociated with myself for so long
that I didn't know whether I was coming or going.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I just didn't know. I just knew that I couldn't
do it anymore.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
And it just comes to a point where you just break,
you know, And if you don't break me and you
we both know people in the industry that are older
that can never get out of it now because they've
reached the point of being able to do something else.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
That's true, and just to go back to like what
you say, like young impressional girls, like how do you
think a twelve year old or a thirteen year old
girl who is constantly being faed tiktoks and Instagram reels
of these girls like come with me to sleep with
five hundred men? I've just thousand men challenged. It was
a girl in England recently who.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Did I think it was a Bonnie Blue.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
No, there was another one. So Bonnie did a thousand member.
There was a girl who did the one hundred.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Men backdoor challenge and that was just you know what
I mean. But like these extremes associated with sex, it
might not be normalized in society, but on social media
to scroll on the for you, this is now the normal.
And like I suppose for these young girls like who
were learning to maybe figure out their sexuality, and it's.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Grooming, isn't it's it's groomed.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
It's grooming young women into thinking it's normality.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
You know, the human mind is not designed to take
on board that much information a day. And look at
all the information that's just getting shoved in these young girls' heads.
You know, we talk about you know, when I was younger,
it was all about that body image. You know, we
had like Dolly magazine and all these things coming out,
and now like it's just so intense, like the pendulum
has strung swung so far over to the other side.
(23:03):
And a Paul, for instance, look at her cult following
that she has. She's selling cute little lip glosses and
hair ties and makeup products and has you know, sharpies
on her car to write cute messages, and she's she's
making porn. Her moms are lining up with their kids
(23:24):
to get these girl's products, and she's doing porn.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And yeah, and like this is the new type of
Like do you remember twenty years ago you'd line up
to meet a pop star, But now this is the reality.
Girls are lighting up to me upon star who they aregalize.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
It's crazy, isn't it crazy?
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It's so insane And I don't know how we got
to get it back.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I don't even know if it's possible now. I think
it's too far gone.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
All I know is that people like myself need to
come out and speak about the other other side of it,
because you know, people are always gonna come at me
and be like, you know, you had all this money
I did, but I like also lost a lot of
money as well, because I wasn't financially mature enough to
be able to handle it.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Because it came in.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Quickly and at went quickly, and thank god it went quickly,
because God knows what would have happened if yed had
stayed in my hand for too long.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But you know, my.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Perception of you is you were always sensible that like
you did invest. You still have properties.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah, yeah, I still I still have my house, I
still have You know, I wasn't it wasn't stupid, but
I was like I could have done better with it,
of course, but you know, it helped out.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
My family, But I am yeah, I lost myself.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
It's what's It's been twenty months, I think a year
and a half. Yeah, twenty months since I left the industry,
and I reckon just really the last seven months, I've
fully become content and comfortable with who I am again.
(25:00):
And even now I'm a fairly confident person. Let you know,
there's I still have situations where I'm sitting in public
and I actually said too sorry just to get off
the topic, but it's relatable to what I'm saying. I
actually said to my client's husband the other day. So
I do support services and I work for a Christian couple.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
They're amazing. And I started crying.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Every Sunday they have people at their house, and I
can get so awkward around normal conversation and normal people
because I'm actually relearning how to assimilate back.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Into society as just.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Who I am, because I was living a life so
outside of who I actually have been my whole life
that I forgot how to interact and how to be
normal somewhat. And his family and friends left and I
just said, you know what, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I feel so safe here.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And I started crying and he said, we know it's
hard for you, Hailey, Like you're doing great, and I'm
like having to relearn a sense of normality again because
the only fans and the hyper sexualization and everything that
is that adult industry.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
It's not normal. It's not real life.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
We need to get away from making it real life
because those people when they exit the industry and come
back into the norm as such, right like if you
aways put parameters on it, it's like it's.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
A struggle, Like it's a real struggle.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
And I'm still dealing with the flow on effect from
that after being in it for five years.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Was there a specific incident with you that, like, I know,
it sounds like it was a gradual realization of losing yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
What was there like because a lot of people assume that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
World is dangerous, and you know you were escort in
as well, which is a whole different level. But was
there any specific I think that's.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
The thing, Josh.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
I think I went on a podcast with you or
with stuff prior to doing this. When I first started,
only things I'm like, I'd never do, I'd never become
a new score. That's excelling your soul, and like what
we're saying about that natural progression, like, look where I
ended up, and it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I don't think it was one thing, but I can
remember the point with a penny drop.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
So I went to London the week before I decided
to pull the pin, and for months following I had
started stuttering when I was speaking because I was thinking
so much about what I was saying, and I was
just anxious, and all this stuff had started to bubble
to the surface. And I was sitting in a room
(27:36):
with two really well known pawn stars from the US
that had flown to the UK. I was in London
at the time, and I was sitting there and I
was having a discussion with a woman. She was forty
eight point fifty, and I'd actually had discussions with people
prior about what I would do if I was to
(27:57):
leave the oudur industry, and I started using language like
or like what else am I supposed to do?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
When?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
You know, so that obviously started taking a clear hit
on my confidence and what I was able to do.
And you know, people start saying, oh, you're just an escort,
you just this, You just that, you start.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
To believe it, right.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
So, when I was on this set, this lady was
speaking to me, and she was late forties, and she
just it was so evidently clear that she was stuck
and that she was you know, obviously like very glamorous
(28:34):
and everything. But when she was talking to me, she
was talking about like that she never got to have kids,
and just different things throughout her life. And I just
remember in that instance, thinking I need to get out
of here, and I need to do it now because
if I don't, I'm going to be her. And I
knew it was going to be hard. And that's the thing.
(28:55):
It's a big band aid to rip off, but it's
so worth it. And and someone actually compared it to
an analogy that when you know, when you base jump,
you base jump and the parachutees wrapped up and you'll
bump and you'll fall, but then the parachute opens and
your glide, but you just have to take that jump
or you just end up sitting in a situation that's
(29:18):
uncomfortable but you're content with.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, And I think that's interesting. You say, how you
know you started to see that result? You were because
even last week Stephano and I he couldn't sleep, and
you know, you're kind of just talking into the early
hours in the dark, lay next to each other, and
he was saying, like the feedback from the content we've
done so far before mentioning only fans, like he's been overwhelmed,
(29:43):
how so many people are seeing him for like just
how lovely he is, how sweet he is, how caring
gears and like over the last few years, as his
only fans has blown up, because I think on Twitter
he's got like two hundred thousand followers, Like he's big
in that, you know, the gate on world, Like he'd
started to see over the last few years that all
he is to most people is the size of his
(30:06):
dick or his body or you know, like and he
says like before he ever started on the fans, when
someone says Stephan, no, they know him for his brain
or he's hot or you know, his smile. And then
at some point he's lost sight of maybe who he is.
And then through what we're doing in the chats we're having,
he slowly like, it's not good? Is that?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
How Like? Honestly, how good is that?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Because he has objectified himself and then become objectified by
others where all they talk about is what they see
and totally can relate to that as well, because people like, yes,
exactly exactly the same thing. It's like when you're like, oh,
I am actually nice, I do have something to offer
to the table. But when no one gives an absolute
(30:49):
flying f about anything other than what's between your legs,
he thinks that that's your value. And then if people
aren't complimenting, you have to look like, this is the thing.
You have to learn to learn that like through people, unfortunately,
not even your own validation, Like, because if he saw
that within himself, you'd know that, right yea, So he
wouldn't need to search it outside of himself, but this
(31:12):
validation is coming from other people outside of himself, so
you become insecure. You're looking for validation through the external,
through what you're actually looking what you look like through
the superficial as opposed.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
To like knowing your self worth.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
And so now like he's getting it reconfirmed by strangers,
which is sad within itself because he's lost who he
is through doing this.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, and I suppose now, I mean with me and him,
it's like I understand all you're using it, but I
still think deep down that that can be a balance.
I don't know whether it's solo content as you like
he goes to that solo content whilst exploring different career opportunities,
(32:02):
do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Like one hundred percent, I think I think it's a
worthwhile conversation.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
You know, at the end of the day, it's this
is like totally my perspective on it from being like,
you know, in my shoes and as a couple, you
need to navigate that, but you need to be comfortable
with it as well, and he needs to be comfortable
with it. But what a great thing that would be
for him to realize that he's so much more than
that and getting a game plan to get out because
(32:29):
it's not something that has longevity, or maybe he's happy
with that.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
But.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I just know that. Remember when he said those conversations
with you and you feel like, oh, you know, the
right type of guy will like, you know, be okay
with it.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
And you know I said it to you like a
million times, like about getting a partner. I'm so thankful
because I would never want a date a man that
would be okay with me doing it because it shows
the values that he has. And I the type of
guy that I wanted would not want his missus showing
(33:05):
their bits and pieces to the world.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
He would just want it for a loving relationship.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, and I recall actually this a couple of years ago,
but I remember when you started to feel like you
were developing feelings with someone. But he was a client,
was he? And like I remember thinking about that, Well,
that's never going to be because he doesn't see you
as Hailey and all the things, and you know your
values and you as a person. He's he's paid you
(33:33):
for the hour and that's how you've met him.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And one hundred one hundred, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
But that's how low my self worth got because I
was like, you start to just push all your standards,
all your everything that you would have stood for just
dropped so much.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
NOA because kind of happy with what you can get
at that point.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
That's actually I don't think I ever told you this book.
Remember when you first started doing only funds and I
was kind of part of that journey with you.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And then remember I was briefly selling my socks.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And I just figured out, well, like that was not
that bad. You know. I look at Hailey and the
other girls are doing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
And then this guy reaches out and he's like, I'll
buy your socks, And then that worked out.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I had to go to his house, sit there.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
For twenty minutes while he takes them off my feet
and has a sniff, and then I leave with a
few hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
He actually didn't tell me your book.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
But then I ended up like falling for this guy.
And then because it doesn't matter, yeah, like it was
he I think I wrote someone in the book like
he was paying so much attention and compliments to a
part of my body. I never cared for my feet
like he must love me, he must love all of
me and then like, obviously the guy never cared for
me in the slightest.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
See how desperate we came in that moment where like
we were just craving like any kind of love or
a texture attention because we were so broken.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah, we we.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Went whole and then I ended up giving him my
socks for free after that, because I thought we were
in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I got played.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
It's yeah, it's you know what it's I feel like
you need to get clear on what you want, Josh Sefan.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I need to get clear on what he wants.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
And if you both value your relationship, you will come
up with a plan moving forward, whether that's to cut
the only fans, to do something that you are both
happy with, find some middle ground. But ultimately you want
to mature a relationship where you have a husband who
(35:37):
isn't delving into sex work, and why couldn't this be
something that you guys eventuate into a marriage. I just
don't think that in any well formed relationship that showing
your partner to the world is in my eyes.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Is okay.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
And I've got those old school values like you were
talking about as well.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
It's funny I saw one of the comments.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
I was like, how could Josh have boltiicol values when
he slept with us to Sydney And now everyone's everyone's
gonna be listening to this thing, like she hocked yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Like, but I just.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
And I think I've said this to you in the
past when I was in that position, I couldn't could
never date someone that did only fans.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
How's the hypocrisy on that? There's there's no way I
could handle it.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Yeah, I mean you know this more than anyone, And yeah, no.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Way I could handle it, Like not a chance, you know,
And like, sure it's acting, but like there's times where
like things cross the line.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
It's sex.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
It's like primal sex, right, so you can have sex,
so you can enjoy it without love. How many people
did you excuse my language, how many people did you
fuck without love but you still enjoyed it?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Right?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, there's quite the list there.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, yeah, I don't want to go through it will
be here for a while, but.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
You know what I mean, Like, so I don't know,
it's just like it comes.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Down to.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
What you care about and what he cares about and
finding the middle ground and how badly I suppose she
wants a relationship over this.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
You know, it's just yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I appreciate the chat, and I thank you to think
about it, and I'm so happy that you are doing
so well these days. Like whether regardless of what you're doing,
it's just you've always been that person who you never
half asked someone.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Even from the damn me you and maths. You know
you want to do something, you do it. You do
it to the extreme.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And I suppose that's maybe it was detrimental when you
went into the poem world, because.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
There was also detrimental when I got into drugs.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, are you doing good enough? So that's good.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah, we're just gonna have a red hot crack and
everything you do. But yeah, I just I wish you
guys are the best. You're also one of the nicest
men that I know. You deserve it. You're well rounded,
you're strong but soft, You're multifaceted. Don't waiver on what
you want, Josh, stand tall and stand firm on the
(38:20):
foundations that you have because you've spent a lot of
time by yourself on the other end of all the
lows in your life.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
And I believe that you do know what you want.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Yeah, and that's really that's really important. We can't we
can't move our standards up and down to fit someone.
We have to be flexible, we have to compromise, but
this is far more than compromising.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Okay, well, I appreciate that, Haley, and I'm now going
to go have a big think
Speaker 4 (38:55):
All right, my love,
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