April 1, 2025 • 46 mins
A lot of you will find this episode as uncomfortable to listen to as I found uncomfortable to record, but it's perhaps the most important of this investigation so far. People may dispute the stories and scandals associated with Married At First Sight while arguing that cast members "bring it all on themselves" - but you can't question the statistics I present to you here, as the numbers don't lie.
Listen to Part 1 and Part 2 of The Downfall of MAFS Australia.
My book, What You Into?, where I use my own experiences to raise awareness of mental health is out now.
Trigger warning: This episode discusses suicide and suicidal ideation.
If you are someone you know is struggling, please call Lifelife on 13 11 14
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Episode Free of the Downfall of Married at
First Sight Australia, an investigation by the Maths Funny Podcast
hosted by me Joshua Fox. An investigation that has, in
all honesty, become much bigger than I ever anticipated, and
much bigger than me stood here behind this microphone.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
If you've ever listened to the Maths Funny Podcast, there
is an investigation that's going on at the moment which
is gaining links.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Joshua Fox, the creator of the Maths Funny Podcast, has
started a serious investigation into the production of merrit at
First Sign.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's great content. I love the host Joshua Fox.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
In the first episode of this season, I made the
producers of the show the main characters they were always
destined to become. In the second episode, I then shone
a spotlight onto the show's relationship experts, and I dared
to question them on their ethics. Do you ever feel
ethically and morally compromise what you on that shell.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
I'm not going to answer you questions, but I will
introduce myself.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Which led to a legal lesson from Channel nine and
a mention of potentially involving the relevant authorities. You must
have been accused of enabling abusive behavior.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Anything to say.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
To that, what else you got from me, Josh, which
the more than welcome to do, because where I'm from,
storytelling is not a crime.
Speaker 6 (01:23):
Maybe that's a you problem.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
That's a I think it's a new problem. What's happening
on the shell?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Neither is asking a public figure such as John aikin
questions that are of the public interest.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Now the Australian reports Nine Entertainments sent Fox a legal
letter accusing him of the harassment of John Aiken.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
We have been following this very very closely.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
How can nine seriously employ such tactics every week on
a current affair, but take exception when those same tactics
are used against them. It's the very definition of hypocrisy.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Channel nine taking this approach, which I believed was their
attempt to intimidate me, a small, independent creator who is
telling a story it appears they'd rather was not told,
then led to me finding myself at the center of
a media style as I defended myself.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Do you think Josh did anything wrong there?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Josh does it exactly how you're supposed to do it.
Speaker 7 (02:16):
Without backing down, but not being too rude or annoying.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
He knows what he wants to ask.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But really, now it's getting to a point where a
lot of them are really struggling in everyday life.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Afterwards, May and amid the whole world.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
When this created, I realized more than ever how the
cast of this show must often feel silence, scared to
speak out and afraid of defending their character.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And they're like, we've got the maths podcast now that
finishes in two weeks, So what then.
Speaker 8 (02:45):
Well, I think he's got other things.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, no, they don't, So can you tell us where
the investigation is getting now?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
In this episode, I'll be presenting you with the shocking
statistics that will be uncomfortable to listen to. But these
statistics prove more than ever that the questions I'm asking
need to be asked. I'll also be looking at how
dark things really get for the cast members behind the scenes,
and I'll also be holding myself to account, or, as
they like to say on the show, I'll be holding
(03:13):
a mirror to my own behavior.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
How we going to everyone a mask?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Three?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Anion?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
It's just the unpopular rook.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I've been a prominent person in the married at First
Sight world for six years now new record twenty three
seconds until I pissed them off, and I acknowledge that
it would be hypocritical not for me to highlight the
negative ramifications that some of my actions have had new mass.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Casts analysis of the day.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I actually thought we'd go through and figure out who's
gonna be the biggest dickhead?
Speaker 5 (03:44):
All right.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
First, we've got Adam, who's described as cocky and confident,
which is usually Channel nine as way saying this guy
is like and the type of media coverage and content
that I didn't just start in this country, but I
feel set a foundation for what so many other copycat
pages is another outlet's playing catch up have since recreated
and ran with. I do have so many regrets of
(04:06):
my own when it comes to Marriat at first sight,
and there are so many things that I wish I
could go back and change, but I can't.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Hey, guys, how's moving in?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Going?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Still happy? Your face doesn't look happy today? Is everything? Okay?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Trigger warning? As important as this episode is, it will
be uncomfortable to listen to for many people, and it
will heavily cover topics such as depression, anxiety, abuse, and suicide.
If you are struggling and need someone to talk to
cold Lifeline on thirteen eleven, fourteen. I've spent two weeks
(04:43):
now reading through a decade's worth of news articles, cast interviews,
radio transcripts, Instagram posts, and magazine features. You name it,
I have read it, and everything I'm going to discuss
in this episode is already out there in the public
domain for anyone to go and find. And I haven't
done any new interviews with any cast members about the
contents of this episode because I don't want to be
(05:05):
accused of having an agenda or only speaking to the
people who will say the things that I want them
to say. And again, just to reiterate, everything in this
episode is information already out there from cast members who
have chosen to put it out there themselves, often to
deter people from ever making the same mistakes they did
and going unmarried at First Sight. The thing is, though
(05:27):
no one has ever compiled all of these stories before
like I have, because once you do, you can't ignore it,
and it's quite alarming. Since launching in twenty fifteen, one
hundred and seven couples have been matched across the first
eleven seasons of Married at First Sight Australia. That's two
hundred and fourteen people who have put their trust in
(05:50):
the people behind this show. And despite the show boasting
how You'll been matched by three relationship experts, only five
of those one hundred and seven couples matched by the
show have remained together, which means that only ten of
those two hundred and fourteen people got the happy ending
that they were hoping for. That's a four point six
(06:11):
percent success right. Meanwhile, thirty two of those two hundred
and fourteen people have since admitted that appearing are married
at First Sight pushed them into the darkest place mentally
that they have ever been in their life.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
That's fourteen point.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Nine percent of the people who have appeared on this
show more Married at First Site cast members have been
left deeply and psychologically affected by the show than have
actually found love on it. Eleven of the two hundred
and fourteen people who have appeared and married at First
Site have admitted the show left them suicidal. Six of
(06:47):
those two hundred and fourteen people have admitted to trying
to end their life at some point in time. Three
of those thankfully unsuccessful suicide attempts occurred before they were
ever cast and married first Sight, which raises the question
about why were they ever cast in the first place,
as it was already known that they have past trauma
(07:09):
and the other three of those, again thankfully unsuccessful suicide
attempts occurred after they were cast or married at First
Sight and as a direct result of their.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Involvement in this show.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
That's free people free everyday people just like you, just
like me, who signed up to a show hoping to
find love, but instead they found themselves so destroyed that
they tried to end their own lives. They reached a
point where they genuinely fought no longer being alive was
their only option. And this issue is much bigger than
(07:43):
Married at First Site Australia, and it's also a subject
close to my heart, as I know what it's like
to reach that dark point and I know what it's
like to feel like there's no way out. In twenty sixteen,
a report in The New York Times states that at
that point in time, twenty one reality television stars had
(08:04):
taken their life in the last decade around the world.
In twenty nineteen, the Metro newspaper in the UK reported
that that number was now at thirty eight. I'd personally
met and worked with two of those thirty eight people.
In twenty sixteen, I was working as a magazine journalist
(08:24):
in the UK and one day I was flown to
Spain to interview the cast of the latest season of
Love Island.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
I spent the day.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Sitting down with the cast one by one, and I
remember meeting one woman called Sophie Graddon. Sophie was thirty
at the time, and she told me how excited she
was to finally get into the villa and hopefully find
the love of a life.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
My name is Sophie.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm thirty, I'm from Newcastle.
Speaker 9 (08:47):
I'm a digital marketing manager and I'm a model. I
am a typical Jaudie girl. I'm fun, I'm feisty, I'm flirty.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
I drink as much as I one, do.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
What I want.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Later that day, while still in Spain, and once my
cast interviews had rapped, the team behind Love Island invited
me and some other media for a big dinner with
the host of.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
The show, Caroline Flack.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Caroline and I had briefly met several times before events
and on red carpets back in London, but this was
our first time in a social setting like.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
This having dinner together.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Caroline was lovely, warm and she was one of the
most recognizable women in the UK, and many of us
grew up seeing her face every week in our screens,
watching her go from hosting Kids TV to then the
biggest shows in the country, and when it came to
her personal life, she also dated some of the biggest
names in the country, which she couldn't escape being asked
about in every single interview.
Speaker 11 (09:45):
How I raped your luck close? How not rated your
luck close?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So your relationships particularly, we talked about it in the
teas with both Harry's at Harry Styles and Prince Harry
as well.
Speaker 11 (09:58):
Well, I don't I don't really talk about the relationships
as such, and I do make a point in the
book that I don't talk about Prince Harry.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
It was so intrusive.
Speaker 11 (10:05):
It's people stand at my dad's house, my mum's house,
my brother's, my sister's house, my NaN's house.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It was also no secret that Caroline struggled with the
spotlight and on that night we hung out at what
was meant to be a celebration a couple of days
before the new season of Love Island started. It was
clear to Alliver's there that she was still struggling and
she wasn't in a great place mentally, which again to
me was no surprise, as Caroline had always been so
(10:31):
open about her struggles with her mental health and anxiety,
especially as the result of trolling she received on social media.
But given how high the ratings were for Love Island
in the UK and how many millions of pounds it generated,
who would ever dare say that maybe she should step
down and take a break, especially just days before the
next season was due to launch. There was too much
(10:54):
money at stake for this to ever happen or ever
even be suggested by anyone. That trip where I met
Sophie and had dinner with Caroline was in twenty sixteen.
Two years later, in twenty eighteen, Sophie ended her life,
age thirty two. She did this after saying time and
(11:15):
time again how much she struggled with the abuse that
she received on social media after finding fame on the
violand and she did this even after highlighting how trolling
can often push people to suicide.
Speaker 9 (11:26):
When you get so many on the scale that we did,
I mean coming out to hundreds of thousands of followers, Yes,
you have this positivity, there's fans and there's people who
love you, but you, for some reason human nature, we'd
like to focus on the negatives. So commenting on the
way you look, the way you talk can really really
get into your mind and really really begin to affect it.
(11:49):
The harsh reality is that it can end up with
that victim taking their own life. As we've seen in
the media, it has happened. Can you imagine being responsible
for that. So there has to be you know, open
and frank talk with these children in schools. It has consequences.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Less than three weeks after Sophie committed suicide, her boyfriend
Aaron Armstrong then ended his life age twenty five, with
his mum saying at the time that he just couldn't
live without Sophie and he wanted to be with her.
Two years later, in twenty twenty, Caroline ended her life
(12:27):
age forty.
Speaker 12 (12:29):
The fourty year old TV presenter of Love Island, Caroline Flak,
has died. Her family have announced the news a short
while ago. This will come as an enormous shark, of course,
a well loved household name Caroline Flack.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Caroline did this after her twenty year career in the media,
where as each year passed, the press interest in her
only intensified, The criticism she received grew bigger, and any
mistakes she would make would be blown up and sensationalized
to the entire world. And as expected, the news of
Caroline's passing devastated the country, with her friend and fellow
(13:06):
media personality Kerry Katona summarizing just how everybody felt afterwards
in this interview.
Speaker 13 (13:13):
Caroline had reached out to you in the past, how
was she when you spoke to her?
Speaker 11 (13:17):
Well, this is what really upsets me, because I know
how it feels to feel that low and when someone
reaches out to you like that, And I felt I
couldn't have not helped her enough because of idiotic people
on social media trying to get a headline, trying to
get more followers. I don't think they understand the impact
(13:41):
that it had on somebody's mental health. It's so so
wrong on so many levels.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Caroline's death also led to people calling for social media
platforms to take greater steps to stop trolling and abuse,
which most people who knew Caroline personally attribute the hatred
she received online as one of the biggest sources of
her distress.
Speaker 13 (14:02):
The mother of Caroline Flax says social media companies are
failing to protect users from abuse. Ahead of a new
documentary about the TV presenter who took her own life
a year ago, Christine Flak has revealed that Caroline was
unable to escape the onslaught of online bullying.
Speaker 14 (14:19):
Are you said, well, just don't read it, just get
rid of your phone, but she'd be on it constantly.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
You try and talk to us, but she'd be looking
at her phone afterwards. In a TV documentary, a producer
that Caroline wants new said this, Sometimes people ask if
she wanted to be famous, which is a really good question.
And Caroline did want to be famous, but she just
wasn't emotionally wired to deal with other problems that.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Came with being famous.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And this is something that many of her celebrity friends
have also said.
Speaker 10 (14:50):
Then comments did affect her every day, Comments did her.
Speaker 14 (14:54):
Her rise to fame coincided with the rise of social media.
I think she was in a a weird cat and
mouse game with social media, with press, with fame.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
She hated it, but she can do without it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
In September twenty twenty three, the shocking number of past
reality television stars who have sadly ended their own lives
went up by one more, and this one was much
closer to home. Charlie Neulingk who many of you marycall
from Ali Oltigen season of The Bachelorette in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
So I came on here to find love, but was
skeptical about who it might be. I actually talked myself,
had it a lot of times, and something.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Can you did? Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Guess it's just not the way I see all most
people would see. You know, you would find love. You
look at it from the outsider in a year ago,
how is this possible? But finding out it was you,
I knew instantly I've got to do this. And the
one thing that really impressed me was on Paradise where
you came straight out and was like, I want to
be married, I want the kids, I want the house,
to the wipe of your fans, I want It's what
(16:00):
I wanted to.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
I'm going, I'm sorry, but that's good.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I like that and don't ever hold it back.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Charlie drove his car off a cliff in Sydney's Eastern suburbs.
Charlie did this in my suburb moments from my house
and the emergency service vehicles I remember hearing that night,
as at that time I lived directly next to the
local fire station. We're all racing to his unsuccessful rescue
as Charlie sadly died upon impact as his car burst
(16:29):
into flames. A few days later, as Charlie's death was
announced in the news, I was wearing his hoodie as
I first read what had happened, a hoodie that he
borrowed me at a party once that I never had
chance to return. Charlie was never a friend exactly. He
was someone I worked with on stories when he was
on the Bachelorette. He was someone I saw around as
(16:49):
we knew mutual people and lived in the same area.
And he was someone whose death impacted me greatly. Charlie's
passing affected me in a way I never expected, and
it rock back memories from a time in my life
I don't.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Like to speak about often.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
When I attempted to end my own life aged twenty
three on September eighteenth, twenty twenty three, while still coming
to terms with Charlie's passing, I wrote this into my diary.
When I read about Charlie's passing, it was like the
world stopped around me, and I asked myself, why why
(17:24):
do I get to live and he doesn't. Why was
my attempt to end in my life unsuccessful when his
went entirely to plan? And why did he never make
it to the place I am now? Despite all I've
been through and the war constantly happening inside my head,
why have I still managed to find a will to live?
I visited the spot where Charlie died four times now,
(17:47):
and each time it looks even bleaker. There's been no
mountain of flowers or tributes, just a single rose. Broken
pieces of the wooden fence he crashed through to get
to the cliff top remain scattered, the police tape flailing
in the wind across the huge gap his vehicle left
acts as a reminder of the fragility of life to
every passer by.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
And it's just also sad.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
If I was to do something like Charlie did, who
would visit the spot where my life ended to more me?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Or would I have pushed everyone away? By that point?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Charlie was a father to two children, and he was
also someone that his former coastar has told me should
never have been cast on The Bachelorette. Many of them
recall that during filming he was perhaps just a little
bit too fragile and a little too vulnerable given the
things he'd previously been in his life to ever be there.
None of Charlie's former coast has blamed his appearance on
(18:40):
The Bachelorette on his decision to take his own life
five years later, but as I said, they all questioned
if he ever should have been cast on the show
in the first place, and highlighted how the magnitude of
doing that show with everything that comes with it, mixed
in with all of his existing struggles was never going
to end well. And that's something I want to talk
about in this episode. Are the casting team behind Married
(19:02):
at First Sight? And I suppose all reality shows failing
in their duty of care when choosing the everyday people
they want to turn into their next villains and heroes,
because if you ask me, they are. And also, in
my opinion, if someone has been through extreme trauma in
their lives beforehand and openly struggled mentally in their lives beforehand,
(19:24):
sometimes to the point of trying to end their own lives,
regardless of the place they're in mentally during the casting process.
I don't think they should ever be cast or included
in any capacity, but this is what is happening.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Year after year after year. I'm married at First Site Australia.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I don't feel comfortable directly naming all of the cast
members I'm going to reference below, even though, as I said,
they've all previously chose to make this information and their
stories public, mostly in the hope of deterring people from
ever appearing on reality TV, but just on the subject
of casting people with a existing trauma. There's one MATHS
participant who attempted to end their life at seventeen while
(20:05):
struggling with their sexuality. This person was later cast as
part of a controversial same sex pairing. There's another cast
member who admitted to grow and up blaming themselves for
their father's suicide, despite this happening when they were just
one years old. That cast member said in one interview,
they did that they grew up thinking was I the
reason they did not want all of me?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Did no one want all of me?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There's another cast member who was admitted to being abused
as a child, self harming to cope with that trauma
and attempting to end their life twice as a teenager
as a result of that. And one participant, who I
will name here as she has told me she's okay
with me doing so is Season seven bride Natasha Spencer,
who was introduced to us viewers like this.
Speaker 8 (20:51):
Let's talk about Natasha. She's someone who's very self assured.
She knows what she wants. She's intelligent. Double degree in
both psychology and business. Could be a little intimidating to
some men.
Speaker 10 (21:03):
You might say, every man wants a strong woman until
he realizes he has to step his own game up.
And I am a very strong woman.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Natasha was presented to us as a confident, ambitious young woman,
which she was, but Natasha was also someone whose life
had not been easy and she did have a lot
of past trauma. I'm now going to play you a
clip from an ABC podcast Natasha did in twenty twenty
one where she bravely opened up about everything in her past.
It's a journalist Natasha Salvaetnam and trigger one in again,
(21:37):
this is quite uncomfortable to listen to.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Natasha told me that she was molested as a child
and sexually assaulted in her teens. She says during the
pre screening process, she told a production psychologist that she'd
been abused, but she wasn't questioned about it in great
detail at the time.
Speaker 10 (21:54):
They talk about extreme trauma not being a suitable for
the show, but they seem to so, you know at
least two types of people into the show, and that
is people that are going to stir the pot and
people that are going to be highly affected by it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And while filming Married at First Sight, and Natasha was
highly affected, to the point that producers actually made the
decision to remove her and her much Mikey from the
show as it was clear to everyone just how much
she was struggling.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
While filming a family.
Speaker 10 (22:21):
Date, production turned around and said, you shouldn't be touching
each other. You were just fighting on camera. And for me,
that was breaking point because I realized that production really
was solace. They are purely there for production purposes and
to get those ratings, and it doesn't matter at what costs.
So I got in the left and I just grabbed
(22:44):
my mum's hand, pulled her into the toilet upstairs, locked
the cubicles, sat on the toilet, and just had an
almighty panic attacks, not dripping out of the nose, bawling tears.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
As that decision was made to remove and Natasha and
Mikey from the show. Production then sent it on a
look true trip to Baalley afterwards too, and I quote
this from now to Live website.
Speaker 10 (23:04):
Overcome her angst, I was sort of aware that I
guess it's sort of like a payoff without being like
a direct cash deposit bribery. And I felt like in
their minds they had made up for what had gone on,
and it doesn't even come close. It was just horrendous
(23:26):
and it led me to having a second breakdown, and
police and ambulance came to my parents' home and they
they took me basically on a Section twenty three, which
is a medical hold, so I had to go to
a hospital and was taking there for medical assessment.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
During that time, Natasha did attempt to end her life,
although she didn't choose to make this information public until
a year afterwards, as she then reflected on her recovery
and the police she was now at mentally. In an
Instagram post in April twenty twenty one, Natasha wrote this,
if you're reading this and struggling, I want you to
(24:09):
know that it does get better. If someone has said
this to me a year ago, I would have paid
them no attention.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Twelve months ago, I was broken.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I'd just been hospitalized following an attempt at taking my
own life. A lot of people who attempt suicide come
to the realization that they didn't want their life to end,
just the life that they were living. The only person
who will always be there is yourself. Start making yourself
a priority. If you hate who you are, you can't
expect someone to make up that love. Life is thankfully
(24:39):
now a lot brighter than Natasha. She's married, she's happy,
and she tells me that she's quite content staying in
a happy, little private bubble out of the spotlight. I
think it's important to point out here that it isn't
just a cast members who get a bad edit or
a dubbed, the villains who suffer afterwards. And an example
of onet to use here is season eight groom Jake Edwards.
(25:02):
Prior to appearing and married at first sight, Jacob made
no secret of his past struggles. He played AFL professionally
when he was younger, and when that ended, he's openly
discussed how he was unsure of his own identity, and
once he stopped playing footy, Jake sparrowed into drug and
alcohol abuse and one day tried to end his own life.
(25:22):
Following that attempt, Jake eventually got a handle of his
depression and he used what he'd been through to start
a mental health organization called Outside the Locker Room, which
he hoped to help other men talk about their mental health,
especially in the sporting world. And as I said, Jake
has always been so very open about what he's been through.
Take a listen to this from his YouTube channel in
(25:44):
twenty nineteen, where he documented his journey.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
Yeah, I used alcohol and drugs as a wider suppress,
as a wider coat, and I always thought that I
was always in control and I'd be able to just
stop tomorrow and go get a job and things would
be fine. I was breeding a behavioral pattern in myself
which led me down to become a drug and alcohol addict,
where I was relying on drugs more so to be happy,
(26:09):
and as we all know, that's just not a sustainable
way to approach things. And you combine that with the
frustration of the mental illness that I was going through,
the depression it led me to a moment in my
life where things all just became too tough, and I
was on a went out for four days straight and
I was completely intoxicated, and I was filled up with drugs,
(26:31):
and there's on an early morning on the Monday where
I attempted my own life in my bathroom. And unfortunately
for me, it's something that you know every single day
and every morning when I wake up and I look
myself in the mirror, and it still hits me today. Emotionally,
it's still something that's still quite raw and to have
to be in a position where you've had to physically
(26:54):
and emotionally be in that place. There was something at
the time that I thought the right thing to do
because I thought family would be able to move on,
friends could stop worrying about me. But what I know now,
it's all fabricated. You know, everything I was saying to
myself at that time, it was the fact that you
know that I didn't think anyone cared. I didn't think
(27:15):
anyone would understand. And the easy option for me at
that time was to take my own life. And yeah,
lucky enough for me, I get to shake my old
man's hand again and I get to hug my mum again.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And a year and a half after posting that video,
Jake was custom married at first sight, and that trauma
and everything he'd been through became a storyline on the show.
Speaker 7 (27:35):
But four years to the day of after Plan A
felt footy. Yeah, I tended my life one morning in
my bathroom after a four day bender on drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
As that season of the show progressed, Jake and his
match back did not work out.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
She didn't receive a very.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Positive d it and was involved in a lot of drama,
and Jake left the show with a rap positive at
it and he was loved by the audience, But that
didn't mean he didn't suffer afterwards, as he revealed in
this radio interview six months after his season wrapped on TV.
Speaker 8 (28:11):
So is it safe to say that, even though you
were in a good mental place, going on a show
like Maths for your mental health was a very bad decision?
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Look, I don't There was a time there where I
was very regretful of going on the show because of
the impact I had on my mental health. And it's significant,
Like I'll be honest, it got to a point where
I was suicidal again, and my mum wasn't with me,
I wouldn't be here, no doubt. So yeah, it got
to a really critical point, and that's why I went
to the Monks.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
That's why. What point was it watching the episodes back
or during it all?
Speaker 7 (28:41):
It was like after the final show had aired, it
all just kind of hit me, like I couldn't go
down the street without people having you said, mate, I
was very fortunate portraying. Yeah, I had nothing to do
with that. It was just the fact that I had
emotionally been put in that position. I was extremely vulnerable
coming off it. I was in a relationship at the
time and that had broken down, and that was significantly
(29:02):
a massive impact on me and her and everything. I
couldn't have a private life.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
When I question the responsibilities of those choosing the cast
for shows like this, this is what I mean, because
to me, it almost seemed inevitable that Jake being involved
in a show as pressurized as Married at First Sight,
which comes with so much scrutiny, would affect him like this,
especially when you think about how in that first clip
I played from Jake's very public YouTube account, which the
(29:29):
mass casting team would have had full access to He
explained how that suicide attempt was something that was still
raw to him.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
And unfortunately for me, it's something that you know every
single day and every morning when I wake up and
I look myself in the mirror, and it still hits
me in late emotionally, it's still something that's still quite raw.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
The hardest thing for me to listen to in that
first clip of Jake, though, is this line.
Speaker 7 (29:53):
It was something at the time that I thought was
the right thing to do because I thought family would
be able to move on, friends could stop worrying about me.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
When I attempted to end my life at twenty three,
I felt the exact same, and I genuinely believed that
my family and friends would have been better off without me.
And when my attempt didn't work, instead of turning to
my family and friends for help, I just left the country.
I quit my job, sold everything I owned, and I
moved to Australia with a vague plan of doing it again.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
That's something that will always be a part of me,
and it will always.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Be in the back of my mind, almost like a
plan be I'm holding onto for when things get that
little bit too hard in my regular day to day life.
That last resort is like this tiny seed that occupies
maybe zero points zero one percent of my brain. But
in those times that I've spiraled or if I'm having
an episode, that little seed goes from occupying zero point
zero one percent of my brain to one percent to
(30:49):
ten percent, to twenty percent or even higher, depending how
bad I am or how intense things happening to me are.
And I know this is the exact same for so
so many other survivors. Again, this is hard to convey
for anyone who has thankfully never been in that mindset
or struggled with the mental health to this point. But
I want to read you this final entry from my diary,
(31:10):
which later became part of the book I published last year,
where I was trying to raise awareness of mental health
and depression. There are so many uncertainties in life, but
one undeniable fact is that I should not be typing
this right now, and I should be dead. Eight years ago,
I decided I no longer wanted to be alive, and
(31:30):
I attempted to end my own life. I wrote a note,
I left a detailed plan for my funeral, and I
had no desire to ever see another day on that day,
as I made my attempt, I remember the world starting
to fade around me. The noise of East London outside
my window became silent, my vision blurred into the heaviest black,
(31:51):
and my lungs begged for one final breath which was
never meant to come, except it did. And when that
didn't work, I wasn't filled with a sense of relief,
a new found lease of life, or the desire to
go out and seize every day. Instead, I now realize
I just stopped caring. It's as if my existence and
(32:12):
everything since then hasn't been real. I've just been going
through the motions and borrowed time, waiting and often wishing
for the end to catch up to me. After that attempt,
I spent so many late nights walking through the most
dangerous parts of London, tempting trouble to find me. I
remember cycling home from working rush hour and just closing
my eyes as I cross busy junctions, hoping it would
(32:34):
finally happen. For so many years now, I felt no fear,
danced with danger, and lived as recklessly as I can
when the worst possible outcome to any decision is death.
I state that you've already tried and failed to achieve,
and now spend so many days fantasizing about finally reaching
It's hard not to live as if life's just a simulation.
(32:56):
Right now though, today, as I sit and type this
for the first time since that day eight years ago,
I no longer want to roll the dice with my
life that took me eight years to get to that point.
I also know that I'll never be fully recovered from
these things, because, as I've said, it's part of me
and those things in my past will never leave me.
(33:17):
But just like what happened with Jake, and even now
that I'm so aware of my mental health and these things,
I would say that it would be beyond irresponsible for
anybody to cast me on a reality show, as I
know that I would not be able to cope with it.
This is something I also wanted to discuss with doctor
Isabelle Morley again, who is a clinical psychologist and a
board member of the Yukan Foundation in America, which is
(33:39):
fighting for better rights reality stars in the States. I
asked doctor Morley just what type of people are the
casting teams looking for when casting any type of reality show,
given how so many people have extreme responses afterwards.
Speaker 15 (33:52):
They're trying to find a certain group of people, not
who will take their own lives, but who will be reactive,
who will be upset, who'll be affected, because they'll give
big responses and they'll make a great story. So they
actually probably intentionally select people who are not in a
great place or who have trauma histories, and that's the
entertainment that they're providing for us. And so people are
(34:14):
being manipulated on these shows to give reactions and storylines,
and we're being manipulated in what we watch because it's edited,
and so we should view it as entertainment and not
be so attached to thinking that we know these people
because we don't know them.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I think that it is important that upon out here, though,
that the producers are married at first site in Channel nine,
are definitely not the only people to blame for a
cast member reaching that point of being so broken mentally
that they do contemplate and in their own life. Many
of the people who have admitted to struggling after the
show attribute the sources of their distress to online trolling,
social media abuse, viewers, people staring at them in the street,
(34:54):
scrutiny from the media, unfair headlines, and just the media
coverage in general. Yes, it's true that a lot of
the distress stems from their appearance on the show, but
for so many it's these external factors that prove the
hardest to deal with afterwards. I must also read out
here Channel nine statement regarding their duty of care. Nine
and Animal Shine take their obligations in respect to the
(35:15):
health and well being of participants of this program extremely seriously.
All participants have access to the show's psychologists and welfare
resources during filming, during broadcast, and once the program has ended.
Nine also have an additional service for participants should they
like or need further individual and confidential psychological support. This
(35:36):
service gives participants access to clinicians to support those involved
in the program in relation to their experiences. This service
is available to all participants for as long as they
need it. It does not end on the subject of
those external factors though. This is where I have to
colm myself out. Although these days there so many mean pages,
(35:56):
update pages, gossip pages across social media, for Marriad at
Site Australia.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I was the first one.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I have the biggest one and I do often question
and believe to an extent that my earlier post set
a precedent that people didn't just follow but are still
do into this day. And that does make me feel
uncomfortable because there are so many posts that I do
regret now, and there are also so many stories I
did as a journalist covering Married at First Site that
I also regret now, And I regret the times that
(36:24):
I've allowed myself to get completely swept up in the
drama and the chaos and disregard everything that I know
about the media and also what I know about mental health.
And I think that's also the driving force behind this investigation,
because although I can't undo my own mistakes, hopefully I
can try now use my platform to make the industry
as a whole better going forward for everybody. But again,
(36:46):
just being completely transparent with you, I've questioned my involvement
and my impact in the Married at First Site world
so many times, and I'm always conflicted because on one side,
I love the show, I love making content, and I
love covering it. But also as each year passes and
I become more aware of how I can do this responsibly,
it does become harder to do because the show keeps
(37:08):
going to new extremes, which is something I also wanted
to talk about with doctor Isabella Morley, which started with
her first asking how I even came to get involved
with married at first sight. I started a meme paid
card Math's Funny about six years ago, and it was
again I moved to Australia. I was fascinated by this show,
which is the biggest thing here, but I found it laughable.
(37:29):
Everyone was taking it so seriously and I come from well,
I'm from England and we kind of poke fun at
things rather than believe in the magic there. So I
started making memes and like, you know, there are posts
I regret where maybe one of the girls with lip
filly you put it next to a fish because everyone's
laughing and you're like ha ha. But then over time
I realized there is a line between comedy and just
(37:52):
being cruel, and there's also a line between entertainment and exploitation,
and you know, I have got that very wrong with her,
and that's why I feel kind of passionate it now
about not like fucking undoing my mistakes, because you know,
I've apologized to many cast members, but now kind of
maybe just raising awareness that we can have fun, we
can have a laugh, we can get swept up in it,
(38:12):
but we don't have to be mean about it.
Speaker 15 (38:17):
Yes, yes, we've all fallen prey to that.
Speaker 13 (38:20):
I have.
Speaker 15 (38:21):
I wrote about couples on Love's Blind on My Psychology today,
and I regret it, and I wrote an article about
regretting that, and I haven't had a chance to apologize
to them. I think they probably won't ever speak to me,
which I fully understand. But yeah, it's easy that they're
The production company is doing a great job to get
us emotionally involved and hating and loving these people. But
(38:41):
I think we should just view them as actors essentially,
and treat them as you would an actor, an actor
who's not getting paid. But yeah, I think we all
fall prey to being mean, and it's a good reminder
that we should just be better humans.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I then wanted to talk about Olivia Fraser, who's probably
the one cast member that I have the most regrets
towards and who I'm thankful accepted the apology I made
to her a couple of years ago. Per season, she
was the ultimate villain the way they portrayed it, because
previously we'd had girls cheat and you kind of know
that behavior. You're like, Okay, she's a cheater. But how
(39:16):
Olivia was portrayed. She was portrayed as going against the
girls and trying to bring down another woman, which kind
of hit viewers differently, and I.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Got swept up in that.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
And then I released a book last year kind of
talking about Mostly it was about my personal life and
a relationship falling apart, but I also discussed my career
and I want to read you an extract from there
because I've realized a lot for reflecting, and I'll read
it now. It says I made videos dragging pictures of
Olivia onto a pile of rubbish, and I made post
(39:48):
calling her a liar. I didn't just contribute to the
immense backlash. I feel I led it, as I had
the biggest platform now with one hundred thousand followers, Even
as my post was attract tens of thousands of comments
of abuse at her, and even as the press reported
how Olivia had to have police stationed outside of her
home after her address had been leaked, I still didn't
stop finding the flames of hate on my page. Not
(40:10):
only did I make it clear that I disapproved of
Olivia's actions on the show, but I made it clear
I didn't like her as a person. I got so
swept up with being a leading voice in the public
outrage that I never once stopped to think about everything
I'd previously learned from being in the media.
Speaker 15 (40:24):
That is so powerful. It shows how easy it is
to get involved in loving or hating whoever is on
the show. But you're right, you don't know her. None
of us know these people, actually know these people.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
So then a few months after that season aired, when
you know, I realized I would never be friends with
Olivia if we cross paths, She's not going to like
me and I.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
Don't like her.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
And then I remember there was an incident where I
was I walked out of a train station in King's
Cross in Sydney. I was going to like a magazine
launch party, and I actually saw her there. It was
a Friday, and actually stood on the street alone, looking
maybe a little intimidated, overwhelmed, because you know, these it's
the drunk Friday night crowd all around, and I could
see people like pointing and giggling and you know, whispering
(41:09):
comments like that's her, that's the bitch.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
And I just felt so.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Guilty and sad for this person.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
And then I approached and.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I was like, hey, Olivia Josh, like are you okay?
Speaker 5 (41:21):
And she was like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Then I was like, you probably hate me, but like,
are you going to this magazine party? I'm going there
if you want to, like wait with me for your friends,
because I just felt no matter what I'd watched and
what i'd posted about her, I saw a woman stood
on the street alone in a vulnerable position with people
kind of mocking it openly, and I just felt terrible.
And then she says to me, Nah, like I don't
(41:45):
hate you. I understand you have a job to do,
and but even then, like, yeah, I did have a job.
I covered these shows, but like that doesn't excuse the
way I posted about her. And then we ended up
walking to the event together and she sat with some
of my friends until her group arrived, and then we
ended up just having a chat and I kind of said,
(42:05):
I will never kind of approve of your behavior on
the show, but I'm gonna kind of see you now
as a person i've just met, and the conversations by
having now and she was kind of apologetic of things
that had happened, and you know, she obviously has regrets
she'll live with, but like something kind of shifted for
me that night where I realized, Fuck, these really are
just real people. And then randomly that night she met
(42:27):
a friend of mine who had just moved to Australia
from London and he was there for Foremums filming a
movie and they started dating, which meant I sided spending
a fair bit.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Of time with Olivia.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
And then yeah, I just got to know her, and
I thought, you know what, fuck, I I've been so
wrong that I'm so thankful she forgave me for how
I'd posted about her and how I led that outrage.
And I don't know, I think that's obviously not every
viewer can have an experience like that, but maybe yeah,
just reinforces that mentality of treat these people like humans.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
Not people villains.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
In my chat with Dr Morley, she then asked, how
do I approach my coverage now? Given everything I've learned
and the journey that I've been on.
Speaker 15 (43:08):
So how do you walk that line?
Speaker 8 (43:10):
Now?
Speaker 15 (43:10):
I'm so curious because you still obviously talk about maths
and cover all of this. How do you manage that well?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I still have the meme page, but I'm just more
cautious in what I post, Like I'll go along with storylines.
But every day I get hundreds of submissions like post
this post that, like just silly things. And there's a
girl in this season and people are kind of mocking
her appearance and they're putting pictures of her next to
like the Grinch, you know, things like that, and it's
just like, well, maybe five six years ago, i'd be like, yeah,
(43:37):
I'm going to post that because it's going to get
five thousand likes and ha ha. But like now I'm like, well, no,
like I don't mock her appearance. That doesn't mean it's
not funny, it's not relevant. Yeah, I'll have a laugh
if she says something stupid on the show. And then
this girl in Questions, she link her LinkedIn came out
and she there was a thing on there at the
(43:57):
top where she called herself Times person of the Year
in two thousand and five, but she was only ten
years old at the time, and then it was kind
of like a joke, which she later said because that
year Time magazine said everyone's the person of the year,
but you know, not everyone puts on their LinkedIn and
like that to me was funny. That to me, that's
fair game to make fun of because it's so ridiculous.
(44:20):
But like appearance, no, that's a no go. So like
I'm trying to tread that line and be fairer to
wrap up that little interview, and I supposed to wrap
up this episode. I then asked doctor Morley if she
has any advice, not just for me, but for everybody listening,
for the viewers of reality TV and the fans you
also love getting involved in the drama, jumping.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Online to comment and vent and share their thoughts.
Speaker 15 (44:44):
Maybe the best line to draw is the one that
you experienced of and for all of us, right, like,
if you met this person on the street, would you
feel okay with what you've said and posted about them?
If they knew all the things you'd said and all
the memes or whatever that you've thrown their way, would
you feel okay meeting them one on one? Like would
(45:04):
you feel like the best version of yourself? Would you
be okay with the lines that you maintained? And I
know it's hard to think that way, but like you
actually experienced it, it happens, So it's a good reminder. Listen,
being on a show like this can take down the
best of us depending on how good or bad of
an edit that you get. And we've seen with Love
Islands right a string of suicides, and we're a part
(45:27):
of that. The public is a part of that. The
way we treat people after being on these shows contributes
to their mental health or illness, and not that it's
our fault for you know, the actions that they take.
But we can certainly be a better part of the experience.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
And that is so true. I have a responsibility to
be a bat part of the experience. Every journalist, podcast,
social media commentaita can also be a bat pot of
the experience. And also, you guys, the funds of reality
TV can also be a bad pot of the experience.
Often when we then line following an episode, it can
feel like we're just shouting into an abyss and our
(46:04):
comments will be lost amongst the thousands of others.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
But that's just not entirely true.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
And a lot of the time, the people we are
talking about we'll read what we've posted and put it
out there, just like they will listen to what I
say on this podcast. And I suppose the final point
I want I get to here is, next time someone
from this show is pushed to such an extreme as
we've discussed in this episode, I don't want to personally
feel like I added to that, even in the slightest way,
(46:31):
and I suppose you guys wouldn't either,
Welcome to Episode Free of the Downfall of Married at
First Sight Australia, an investigation by the Maths Funny Podcast
hosted by me Joshua Fox. An investigation that has, in
all honesty, become much bigger than I ever anticipated, and
much bigger than me stood here behind this microphone.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
If you've ever listened to the Maths Funny Podcast, there
is an investigation that's going on at the moment which
is gaining links.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Joshua Fox, the creator of the Maths Funny Podcast, has
started a serious investigation into the production of merrit at
First Sign.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's great content. I love the host Joshua Fox.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
In the first episode of this season, I made the
producers of the show the main characters they were always
destined to become. In the second episode, I then shone
a spotlight onto the show's relationship experts, and I dared
to question them on their ethics. Do you ever feel
ethically and morally compromise what you on that shell.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
I'm not going to answer you questions, but I will
introduce myself.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Which led to a legal lesson from Channel nine and
a mention of potentially involving the relevant authorities. You must
have been accused of enabling abusive behavior.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Anything to say.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
To that, what else you got from me, Josh, which
the more than welcome to do, because where I'm from,
storytelling is not a crime.
Speaker 6 (01:23):
Maybe that's a you problem.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
That's a I think it's a new problem. What's happening
on the shell?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Neither is asking a public figure such as John aikin
questions that are of the public interest.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Now the Australian reports Nine Entertainments sent Fox a legal
letter accusing him of the harassment of John Aiken.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
We have been following this very very closely.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
How can nine seriously employ such tactics every week on
a current affair, but take exception when those same tactics
are used against them. It's the very definition of hypocrisy.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Channel nine taking this approach, which I believed was their
attempt to intimidate me, a small, independent creator who is
telling a story it appears they'd rather was not told,
then led to me finding myself at the center of
a media style as I defended myself.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Do you think Josh did anything wrong there?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Josh does it exactly how you're supposed to do it.
Speaker 7 (02:16):
Without backing down, but not being too rude or annoying.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
He knows what he wants to ask.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But really, now it's getting to a point where a
lot of them are really struggling in everyday life.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Afterwards, May and amid the whole world.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
When this created, I realized more than ever how the
cast of this show must often feel silence, scared to
speak out and afraid of defending their character.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And they're like, we've got the maths podcast now that
finishes in two weeks, So what then.
Speaker 8 (02:45):
Well, I think he's got other things.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, no, they don't, So can you tell us where
the investigation is getting now?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
In this episode, I'll be presenting you with the shocking
statistics that will be uncomfortable to listen to. But these
statistics prove more than ever that the questions I'm asking
need to be asked. I'll also be looking at how
dark things really get for the cast members behind the scenes,
and I'll also be holding myself to account, or, as
they like to say on the show, I'll be holding
(03:13):
a mirror to my own behavior.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
How we going to everyone a mask?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Three?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Anion?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
It's just the unpopular rook.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I've been a prominent person in the married at First
Sight world for six years now new record twenty three
seconds until I pissed them off, and I acknowledge that
it would be hypocritical not for me to highlight the
negative ramifications that some of my actions have had new mass.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Casts analysis of the day.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I actually thought we'd go through and figure out who's
gonna be the biggest dickhead?
Speaker 5 (03:44):
All right.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
First, we've got Adam, who's described as cocky and confident,
which is usually Channel nine as way saying this guy
is like and the type of media coverage and content
that I didn't just start in this country, but I
feel set a foundation for what so many other copycat
pages is another outlet's playing catch up have since recreated
and ran with. I do have so many regrets of
(04:06):
my own when it comes to Marriat at first sight,
and there are so many things that I wish I
could go back and change, but I can't.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Hey, guys, how's moving in?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Going?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Still happy? Your face doesn't look happy today? Is everything? Okay?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Trigger warning? As important as this episode is, it will
be uncomfortable to listen to for many people, and it
will heavily cover topics such as depression, anxiety, abuse, and suicide.
If you are struggling and need someone to talk to
cold Lifeline on thirteen eleven, fourteen. I've spent two weeks
(04:43):
now reading through a decade's worth of news articles, cast interviews,
radio transcripts, Instagram posts, and magazine features. You name it,
I have read it, and everything I'm going to discuss
in this episode is already out there in the public
domain for anyone to go and find. And I haven't
done any new interviews with any cast members about the
contents of this episode because I don't want to be
(05:05):
accused of having an agenda or only speaking to the
people who will say the things that I want them
to say. And again, just to reiterate, everything in this
episode is information already out there from cast members who
have chosen to put it out there themselves, often to
deter people from ever making the same mistakes they did
and going unmarried at First Sight. The thing is, though
(05:27):
no one has ever compiled all of these stories before
like I have, because once you do, you can't ignore it,
and it's quite alarming. Since launching in twenty fifteen, one
hundred and seven couples have been matched across the first
eleven seasons of Married at First Sight Australia. That's two
hundred and fourteen people who have put their trust in
(05:50):
the people behind this show. And despite the show boasting
how You'll been matched by three relationship experts, only five
of those one hundred and seven couples matched by the
show have remained together, which means that only ten of
those two hundred and fourteen people got the happy ending
that they were hoping for. That's a four point six
(06:11):
percent success right. Meanwhile, thirty two of those two hundred
and fourteen people have since admitted that appearing are married
at First Sight pushed them into the darkest place mentally
that they have ever been in their life.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
That's fourteen point.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Nine percent of the people who have appeared on this
show more Married at First Site cast members have been
left deeply and psychologically affected by the show than have
actually found love on it. Eleven of the two hundred
and fourteen people who have appeared and married at First
Site have admitted the show left them suicidal. Six of
(06:47):
those two hundred and fourteen people have admitted to trying
to end their life at some point in time. Three
of those thankfully unsuccessful suicide attempts occurred before they were
ever cast and married first Sight, which raises the question
about why were they ever cast in the first place,
as it was already known that they have past trauma
(07:09):
and the other three of those, again thankfully unsuccessful suicide
attempts occurred after they were cast or married at First
Sight and as a direct result of their.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Involvement in this show.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
That's free people free everyday people just like you, just
like me, who signed up to a show hoping to
find love, but instead they found themselves so destroyed that
they tried to end their own lives. They reached a
point where they genuinely fought no longer being alive was
their only option. And this issue is much bigger than
(07:43):
Married at First Site Australia, and it's also a subject
close to my heart, as I know what it's like
to reach that dark point and I know what it's
like to feel like there's no way out. In twenty sixteen,
a report in The New York Times states that at
that point in time, twenty one reality television stars had
(08:04):
taken their life in the last decade around the world.
In twenty nineteen, the Metro newspaper in the UK reported
that that number was now at thirty eight. I'd personally
met and worked with two of those thirty eight people.
In twenty sixteen, I was working as a magazine journalist
(08:24):
in the UK and one day I was flown to
Spain to interview the cast of the latest season of
Love Island.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
I spent the day.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Sitting down with the cast one by one, and I
remember meeting one woman called Sophie Graddon. Sophie was thirty
at the time, and she told me how excited she
was to finally get into the villa and hopefully find
the love of a life.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
My name is Sophie.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm thirty, I'm from Newcastle.
Speaker 9 (08:47):
I'm a digital marketing manager and I'm a model. I
am a typical Jaudie girl. I'm fun, I'm feisty, I'm flirty.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
I drink as much as I one, do.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
What I want.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Later that day, while still in Spain, and once my
cast interviews had rapped, the team behind Love Island invited
me and some other media for a big dinner with
the host of.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
The show, Caroline Flack.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Caroline and I had briefly met several times before events
and on red carpets back in London, but this was
our first time in a social setting like.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
This having dinner together.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Caroline was lovely, warm and she was one of the
most recognizable women in the UK, and many of us
grew up seeing her face every week in our screens,
watching her go from hosting Kids TV to then the
biggest shows in the country, and when it came to
her personal life, she also dated some of the biggest
names in the country, which she couldn't escape being asked
about in every single interview.
Speaker 11 (09:45):
How I raped your luck close? How not rated your
luck close?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So your relationships particularly, we talked about it in the
teas with both Harry's at Harry Styles and Prince Harry
as well.
Speaker 11 (09:58):
Well, I don't I don't really talk about the relationships
as such, and I do make a point in the
book that I don't talk about Prince Harry.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
It was so intrusive.
Speaker 11 (10:05):
It's people stand at my dad's house, my mum's house,
my brother's, my sister's house, my NaN's house.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It was also no secret that Caroline struggled with the
spotlight and on that night we hung out at what
was meant to be a celebration a couple of days
before the new season of Love Island started. It was
clear to Alliver's there that she was still struggling and
she wasn't in a great place mentally, which again to
me was no surprise, as Caroline had always been so
(10:31):
open about her struggles with her mental health and anxiety,
especially as the result of trolling she received on social media.
But given how high the ratings were for Love Island
in the UK and how many millions of pounds it generated,
who would ever dare say that maybe she should step
down and take a break, especially just days before the
next season was due to launch. There was too much
(10:54):
money at stake for this to ever happen or ever
even be suggested by anyone. That trip where I met
Sophie and had dinner with Caroline was in twenty sixteen.
Two years later, in twenty eighteen, Sophie ended her life,
age thirty two. She did this after saying time and
(11:15):
time again how much she struggled with the abuse that
she received on social media after finding fame on the
violand and she did this even after highlighting how trolling
can often push people to suicide.
Speaker 9 (11:26):
When you get so many on the scale that we did,
I mean coming out to hundreds of thousands of followers, Yes,
you have this positivity, there's fans and there's people who
love you, but you, for some reason human nature, we'd
like to focus on the negatives. So commenting on the
way you look, the way you talk can really really
get into your mind and really really begin to affect it.
(11:49):
The harsh reality is that it can end up with
that victim taking their own life. As we've seen in
the media, it has happened. Can you imagine being responsible
for that. So there has to be you know, open
and frank talk with these children in schools. It has consequences.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Less than three weeks after Sophie committed suicide, her boyfriend
Aaron Armstrong then ended his life age twenty five, with
his mum saying at the time that he just couldn't
live without Sophie and he wanted to be with her.
Two years later, in twenty twenty, Caroline ended her life
(12:27):
age forty.
Speaker 12 (12:29):
The fourty year old TV presenter of Love Island, Caroline Flak,
has died. Her family have announced the news a short
while ago. This will come as an enormous shark, of course,
a well loved household name Caroline Flack.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Caroline did this after her twenty year career in the media,
where as each year passed, the press interest in her
only intensified, The criticism she received grew bigger, and any
mistakes she would make would be blown up and sensationalized
to the entire world. And as expected, the news of
Caroline's passing devastated the country, with her friend and fellow
(13:06):
media personality Kerry Katona summarizing just how everybody felt afterwards
in this interview.
Speaker 13 (13:13):
Caroline had reached out to you in the past, how
was she when you spoke to her?
Speaker 11 (13:17):
Well, this is what really upsets me, because I know
how it feels to feel that low and when someone
reaches out to you like that, And I felt I
couldn't have not helped her enough because of idiotic people
on social media trying to get a headline, trying to
get more followers. I don't think they understand the impact
(13:41):
that it had on somebody's mental health. It's so so
wrong on so many levels.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Caroline's death also led to people calling for social media
platforms to take greater steps to stop trolling and abuse,
which most people who knew Caroline personally attribute the hatred
she received online as one of the biggest sources of
her distress.
Speaker 13 (14:02):
The mother of Caroline Flax says social media companies are
failing to protect users from abuse. Ahead of a new
documentary about the TV presenter who took her own life
a year ago, Christine Flak has revealed that Caroline was
unable to escape the onslaught of online bullying.
Speaker 14 (14:19):
Are you said, well, just don't read it, just get
rid of your phone, but she'd be on it constantly.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
You try and talk to us, but she'd be looking
at her phone afterwards. In a TV documentary, a producer
that Caroline wants new said this, Sometimes people ask if
she wanted to be famous, which is a really good question.
And Caroline did want to be famous, but she just
wasn't emotionally wired to deal with other problems that.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Came with being famous.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And this is something that many of her celebrity friends
have also said.
Speaker 10 (14:50):
Then comments did affect her every day, Comments did her.
Speaker 14 (14:54):
Her rise to fame coincided with the rise of social media.
I think she was in a a weird cat and
mouse game with social media, with press, with fame.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
She hated it, but she can do without it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
In September twenty twenty three, the shocking number of past
reality television stars who have sadly ended their own lives
went up by one more, and this one was much
closer to home. Charlie Neulingk who many of you marycall
from Ali Oltigen season of The Bachelorette in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
So I came on here to find love, but was
skeptical about who it might be. I actually talked myself,
had it a lot of times, and something.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Can you did? Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Guess it's just not the way I see all most
people would see. You know, you would find love. You
look at it from the outsider in a year ago,
how is this possible? But finding out it was you,
I knew instantly I've got to do this. And the
one thing that really impressed me was on Paradise where
you came straight out and was like, I want to
be married, I want the kids, I want the house,
to the wipe of your fans, I want It's what
(16:00):
I wanted to.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
I'm going, I'm sorry, but that's good.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I like that and don't ever hold it back.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Charlie drove his car off a cliff in Sydney's Eastern suburbs.
Charlie did this in my suburb moments from my house
and the emergency service vehicles I remember hearing that night,
as at that time I lived directly next to the
local fire station. We're all racing to his unsuccessful rescue
as Charlie sadly died upon impact as his car burst
(16:29):
into flames. A few days later, as Charlie's death was
announced in the news, I was wearing his hoodie as
I first read what had happened, a hoodie that he
borrowed me at a party once that I never had
chance to return. Charlie was never a friend exactly. He
was someone I worked with on stories when he was
on the Bachelorette. He was someone I saw around as
(16:49):
we knew mutual people and lived in the same area.
And he was someone whose death impacted me greatly. Charlie's
passing affected me in a way I never expected, and
it rock back memories from a time in my life
I don't.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Like to speak about often.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
When I attempted to end my own life aged twenty
three on September eighteenth, twenty twenty three, while still coming
to terms with Charlie's passing, I wrote this into my diary.
When I read about Charlie's passing, it was like the
world stopped around me, and I asked myself, why why
(17:24):
do I get to live and he doesn't. Why was
my attempt to end in my life unsuccessful when his
went entirely to plan? And why did he never make
it to the place I am now? Despite all I've
been through and the war constantly happening inside my head,
why have I still managed to find a will to live?
I visited the spot where Charlie died four times now,
(17:47):
and each time it looks even bleaker. There's been no
mountain of flowers or tributes, just a single rose. Broken
pieces of the wooden fence he crashed through to get
to the cliff top remain scattered, the police tape flailing
in the wind across the huge gap his vehicle left
acts as a reminder of the fragility of life to
every passer by.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
And it's just also sad.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
If I was to do something like Charlie did, who
would visit the spot where my life ended to more me?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
Or would I have pushed everyone away? By that point?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Charlie was a father to two children, and he was
also someone that his former coastar has told me should
never have been cast on The Bachelorette. Many of them
recall that during filming he was perhaps just a little
bit too fragile and a little too vulnerable given the
things he'd previously been in his life to ever be there.
None of Charlie's former coast has blamed his appearance on
(18:40):
The Bachelorette on his decision to take his own life
five years later, but as I said, they all questioned
if he ever should have been cast on the show
in the first place, and highlighted how the magnitude of
doing that show with everything that comes with it, mixed
in with all of his existing struggles was never going
to end well. And that's something I want to talk
about in this episode. Are the casting team behind Married
(19:02):
at First Sight? And I suppose all reality shows failing
in their duty of care when choosing the everyday people
they want to turn into their next villains and heroes,
because if you ask me, they are. And also, in
my opinion, if someone has been through extreme trauma in
their lives beforehand and openly struggled mentally in their lives beforehand,
(19:24):
sometimes to the point of trying to end their own lives,
regardless of the place they're in mentally during the casting process.
I don't think they should ever be cast or included
in any capacity, but this is what is happening.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Year after year after year. I'm married at First Site Australia.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I don't feel comfortable directly naming all of the cast
members I'm going to reference below, even though, as I said,
they've all previously chose to make this information and their
stories public, mostly in the hope of deterring people from
ever appearing on reality TV, but just on the subject
of casting people with a existing trauma. There's one MATHS
participant who attempted to end their life at seventeen while
(20:05):
struggling with their sexuality. This person was later cast as
part of a controversial same sex pairing. There's another cast
member who admitted to grow and up blaming themselves for
their father's suicide, despite this happening when they were just
one years old. That cast member said in one interview,
they did that they grew up thinking was I the
reason they did not want all of me?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Did no one want all of me?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There's another cast member who was admitted to being abused
as a child, self harming to cope with that trauma
and attempting to end their life twice as a teenager
as a result of that. And one participant, who I
will name here as she has told me she's okay
with me doing so is Season seven bride Natasha Spencer,
who was introduced to us viewers like this.
Speaker 8 (20:51):
Let's talk about Natasha. She's someone who's very self assured.
She knows what she wants. She's intelligent. Double degree in
both psychology and business. Could be a little intimidating to
some men.
Speaker 10 (21:03):
You might say, every man wants a strong woman until
he realizes he has to step his own game up.
And I am a very strong woman.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Natasha was presented to us as a confident, ambitious young woman,
which she was, but Natasha was also someone whose life
had not been easy and she did have a lot
of past trauma. I'm now going to play you a
clip from an ABC podcast Natasha did in twenty twenty
one where she bravely opened up about everything in her past.
It's a journalist Natasha Salvaetnam and trigger one in again,
(21:37):
this is quite uncomfortable to listen to.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Natasha told me that she was molested as a child
and sexually assaulted in her teens. She says during the
pre screening process, she told a production psychologist that she'd
been abused, but she wasn't questioned about it in great
detail at the time.
Speaker 10 (21:54):
They talk about extreme trauma not being a suitable for
the show, but they seem to so, you know at
least two types of people into the show, and that
is people that are going to stir the pot and
people that are going to be highly affected by it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And while filming Married at First Sight, and Natasha was
highly affected, to the point that producers actually made the
decision to remove her and her much Mikey from the
show as it was clear to everyone just how much
she was struggling.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
While filming a family.
Speaker 10 (22:21):
Date, production turned around and said, you shouldn't be touching
each other. You were just fighting on camera. And for me,
that was breaking point because I realized that production really
was solace. They are purely there for production purposes and
to get those ratings, and it doesn't matter at what costs.
So I got in the left and I just grabbed
(22:44):
my mum's hand, pulled her into the toilet upstairs, locked
the cubicles, sat on the toilet, and just had an
almighty panic attacks, not dripping out of the nose, bawling tears.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
As that decision was made to remove and Natasha and
Mikey from the show. Production then sent it on a
look true trip to Baalley afterwards too, and I quote
this from now to Live website.
Speaker 10 (23:04):
Overcome her angst, I was sort of aware that I
guess it's sort of like a payoff without being like
a direct cash deposit bribery. And I felt like in
their minds they had made up for what had gone on,
and it doesn't even come close. It was just horrendous
(23:26):
and it led me to having a second breakdown, and
police and ambulance came to my parents' home and they
they took me basically on a Section twenty three, which
is a medical hold, so I had to go to
a hospital and was taking there for medical assessment.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
During that time, Natasha did attempt to end her life,
although she didn't choose to make this information public until
a year afterwards, as she then reflected on her recovery
and the police she was now at mentally. In an
Instagram post in April twenty twenty one, Natasha wrote this,
if you're reading this and struggling, I want you to
(24:09):
know that it does get better. If someone has said
this to me a year ago, I would have paid
them no attention.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Twelve months ago, I was broken.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I'd just been hospitalized following an attempt at taking my
own life. A lot of people who attempt suicide come
to the realization that they didn't want their life to end,
just the life that they were living. The only person
who will always be there is yourself. Start making yourself
a priority. If you hate who you are, you can't
expect someone to make up that love. Life is thankfully
(24:39):
now a lot brighter than Natasha. She's married, she's happy,
and she tells me that she's quite content staying in
a happy, little private bubble out of the spotlight. I
think it's important to point out here that it isn't
just a cast members who get a bad edit or
a dubbed, the villains who suffer afterwards. And an example
of onet to use here is season eight groom Jake Edwards.
(25:02):
Prior to appearing and married at first sight, Jacob made
no secret of his past struggles. He played AFL professionally
when he was younger, and when that ended, he's openly
discussed how he was unsure of his own identity, and
once he stopped playing footy, Jake sparrowed into drug and
alcohol abuse and one day tried to end his own life.
(25:22):
Following that attempt, Jake eventually got a handle of his
depression and he used what he'd been through to start
a mental health organization called Outside the Locker Room, which
he hoped to help other men talk about their mental health,
especially in the sporting world. And as I said, Jake
has always been so very open about what he's been through.
Take a listen to this from his YouTube channel in
(25:44):
twenty nineteen, where he documented his journey.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
Yeah, I used alcohol and drugs as a wider suppress,
as a wider coat, and I always thought that I
was always in control and I'd be able to just
stop tomorrow and go get a job and things would
be fine. I was breeding a behavioral pattern in myself
which led me down to become a drug and alcohol addict,
where I was relying on drugs more so to be happy,
(26:09):
and as we all know, that's just not a sustainable
way to approach things. And you combine that with the
frustration of the mental illness that I was going through,
the depression it led me to a moment in my
life where things all just became too tough, and I
was on a went out for four days straight and
I was completely intoxicated, and I was filled up with drugs,
(26:31):
and there's on an early morning on the Monday where
I attempted my own life in my bathroom. And unfortunately
for me, it's something that you know every single day
and every morning when I wake up and I look
myself in the mirror, and it still hits me today. Emotionally,
it's still something that's still quite raw and to have
to be in a position where you've had to physically
(26:54):
and emotionally be in that place. There was something at
the time that I thought the right thing to do
because I thought family would be able to move on,
friends could stop worrying about me. But what I know now,
it's all fabricated. You know, everything I was saying to
myself at that time, it was the fact that you
know that I didn't think anyone cared. I didn't think
(27:15):
anyone would understand. And the easy option for me at
that time was to take my own life. And yeah,
lucky enough for me, I get to shake my old
man's hand again and I get to hug my mum again.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And a year and a half after posting that video,
Jake was custom married at first sight, and that trauma
and everything he'd been through became a storyline on the show.
Speaker 7 (27:35):
But four years to the day of after Plan A
felt footy. Yeah, I tended my life one morning in
my bathroom after a four day bender on drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
As that season of the show progressed, Jake and his
match back did not work out.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
She didn't receive a very.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Positive d it and was involved in a lot of drama,
and Jake left the show with a rap positive at
it and he was loved by the audience, But that
didn't mean he didn't suffer afterwards, as he revealed in
this radio interview six months after his season wrapped on TV.
Speaker 8 (28:11):
So is it safe to say that, even though you
were in a good mental place, going on a show
like Maths for your mental health was a very bad decision?
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Look, I don't There was a time there where I
was very regretful of going on the show because of
the impact I had on my mental health. And it's significant,
Like I'll be honest, it got to a point where
I was suicidal again, and my mum wasn't with me,
I wouldn't be here, no doubt. So yeah, it got
to a really critical point, and that's why I went
to the Monks.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
That's why. What point was it watching the episodes back
or during it all?
Speaker 7 (28:41):
It was like after the final show had aired, it
all just kind of hit me, like I couldn't go
down the street without people having you said, mate, I
was very fortunate portraying. Yeah, I had nothing to do
with that. It was just the fact that I had
emotionally been put in that position. I was extremely vulnerable
coming off it. I was in a relationship at the
time and that had broken down, and that was significantly
(29:02):
a massive impact on me and her and everything. I
couldn't have a private life.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
When I question the responsibilities of those choosing the cast
for shows like this, this is what I mean, because
to me, it almost seemed inevitable that Jake being involved
in a show as pressurized as Married at First Sight,
which comes with so much scrutiny, would affect him like this,
especially when you think about how in that first clip
I played from Jake's very public YouTube account, which the
(29:29):
mass casting team would have had full access to He
explained how that suicide attempt was something that was still
raw to him.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
And unfortunately for me, it's something that you know every
single day and every morning when I wake up and
I look myself in the mirror, and it still hits
me in late emotionally, it's still something that's still quite raw.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
The hardest thing for me to listen to in that
first clip of Jake, though, is this line.
Speaker 7 (29:53):
It was something at the time that I thought was
the right thing to do because I thought family would
be able to move on, friends could stop worrying about me.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
When I attempted to end my life at twenty three,
I felt the exact same, and I genuinely believed that
my family and friends would have been better off without me.
And when my attempt didn't work, instead of turning to
my family and friends for help, I just left the country.
I quit my job, sold everything I owned, and I
moved to Australia with a vague plan of doing it again.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
That's something that will always be a part of me,
and it will always.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Be in the back of my mind, almost like a
plan be I'm holding onto for when things get that
little bit too hard in my regular day to day life.
That last resort is like this tiny seed that occupies
maybe zero points zero one percent of my brain. But
in those times that I've spiraled or if I'm having
an episode, that little seed goes from occupying zero point
zero one percent of my brain to one percent to
(30:49):
ten percent, to twenty percent or even higher, depending how
bad I am or how intense things happening to me are.
And I know this is the exact same for so
so many other survivors. Again, this is hard to convey
for anyone who has thankfully never been in that mindset
or struggled with the mental health to this point. But
I want to read you this final entry from my diary,
(31:10):
which later became part of the book I published last year,
where I was trying to raise awareness of mental health
and depression. There are so many uncertainties in life, but
one undeniable fact is that I should not be typing
this right now, and I should be dead. Eight years ago,
I decided I no longer wanted to be alive, and
(31:30):
I attempted to end my own life. I wrote a note,
I left a detailed plan for my funeral, and I
had no desire to ever see another day on that day,
as I made my attempt, I remember the world starting
to fade around me. The noise of East London outside
my window became silent, my vision blurred into the heaviest black,
(31:51):
and my lungs begged for one final breath which was
never meant to come, except it did. And when that
didn't work, I wasn't filled with a sense of relief,
a new found lease of life, or the desire to
go out and seize every day. Instead, I now realize
I just stopped caring. It's as if my existence and
(32:12):
everything since then hasn't been real. I've just been going
through the motions and borrowed time, waiting and often wishing
for the end to catch up to me. After that attempt,
I spent so many late nights walking through the most
dangerous parts of London, tempting trouble to find me. I
remember cycling home from working rush hour and just closing
my eyes as I cross busy junctions, hoping it would
(32:34):
finally happen. For so many years now, I felt no fear,
danced with danger, and lived as recklessly as I can
when the worst possible outcome to any decision is death.
I state that you've already tried and failed to achieve,
and now spend so many days fantasizing about finally reaching
It's hard not to live as if life's just a simulation.
(32:56):
Right now though, today, as I sit and type this
for the first time since that day eight years ago,
I no longer want to roll the dice with my
life that took me eight years to get to that point.
I also know that I'll never be fully recovered from
these things, because, as I've said, it's part of me
and those things in my past will never leave me.
(33:17):
But just like what happened with Jake, and even now
that I'm so aware of my mental health and these things,
I would say that it would be beyond irresponsible for
anybody to cast me on a reality show, as I
know that I would not be able to cope with it.
This is something I also wanted to discuss with doctor
Isabelle Morley again, who is a clinical psychologist and a
board member of the Yukan Foundation in America, which is
(33:39):
fighting for better rights reality stars in the States. I
asked doctor Morley just what type of people are the
casting teams looking for when casting any type of reality show,
given how so many people have extreme responses afterwards.
Speaker 15 (33:52):
They're trying to find a certain group of people, not
who will take their own lives, but who will be reactive,
who will be upset, who'll be affected, because they'll give
big responses and they'll make a great story. So they
actually probably intentionally select people who are not in a
great place or who have trauma histories, and that's the
entertainment that they're providing for us. And so people are
(34:14):
being manipulated on these shows to give reactions and storylines,
and we're being manipulated in what we watch because it's edited,
and so we should view it as entertainment and not
be so attached to thinking that we know these people
because we don't know them.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I think that it is important that upon out here, though,
that the producers are married at first site in Channel nine,
are definitely not the only people to blame for a
cast member reaching that point of being so broken mentally
that they do contemplate and in their own life. Many
of the people who have admitted to struggling after the
show attribute the sources of their distress to online trolling,
social media abuse, viewers, people staring at them in the street,
(34:54):
scrutiny from the media, unfair headlines, and just the media
coverage in general. Yes, it's true that a lot of
the distress stems from their appearance on the show, but
for so many it's these external factors that prove the
hardest to deal with afterwards. I must also read out
here Channel nine statement regarding their duty of care. Nine
and Animal Shine take their obligations in respect to the
(35:15):
health and well being of participants of this program extremely seriously.
All participants have access to the show's psychologists and welfare
resources during filming, during broadcast, and once the program has ended.
Nine also have an additional service for participants should they
like or need further individual and confidential psychological support. This
(35:36):
service gives participants access to clinicians to support those involved
in the program in relation to their experiences. This service
is available to all participants for as long as they
need it. It does not end on the subject of
those external factors though. This is where I have to
colm myself out. Although these days there so many mean pages,
(35:56):
update pages, gossip pages across social media, for Marriad at
Site Australia.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I was the first one.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I have the biggest one and I do often question
and believe to an extent that my earlier post set
a precedent that people didn't just follow but are still
do into this day. And that does make me feel
uncomfortable because there are so many posts that I do
regret now, and there are also so many stories I
did as a journalist covering Married at First Site that
I also regret now, And I regret the times that
(36:24):
I've allowed myself to get completely swept up in the
drama and the chaos and disregard everything that I know
about the media and also what I know about mental health.
And I think that's also the driving force behind this investigation,
because although I can't undo my own mistakes, hopefully I
can try now use my platform to make the industry
as a whole better going forward for everybody. But again,
(36:46):
just being completely transparent with you, I've questioned my involvement
and my impact in the Married at First Site world
so many times, and I'm always conflicted because on one side,
I love the show, I love making content, and I
love covering it. But also as each year passes and
I become more aware of how I can do this responsibly,
it does become harder to do because the show keeps
(37:08):
going to new extremes, which is something I also wanted
to talk about with doctor Isabella Morley, which started with
her first asking how I even came to get involved
with married at first sight. I started a meme paid
card Math's Funny about six years ago, and it was
again I moved to Australia. I was fascinated by this show,
which is the biggest thing here, but I found it laughable.
(37:29):
Everyone was taking it so seriously and I come from well,
I'm from England and we kind of poke fun at
things rather than believe in the magic there. So I
started making memes and like, you know, there are posts
I regret where maybe one of the girls with lip
filly you put it next to a fish because everyone's
laughing and you're like ha ha. But then over time
I realized there is a line between comedy and just
(37:52):
being cruel, and there's also a line between entertainment and exploitation,
and you know, I have got that very wrong with her,
and that's why I feel kind of passionate it now
about not like fucking undoing my mistakes, because you know,
I've apologized to many cast members, but now kind of
maybe just raising awareness that we can have fun, we
can have a laugh, we can get swept up in it,
(38:12):
but we don't have to be mean about it.
Speaker 15 (38:17):
Yes, yes, we've all fallen prey to that.
Speaker 13 (38:20):
I have.
Speaker 15 (38:21):
I wrote about couples on Love's Blind on My Psychology today,
and I regret it, and I wrote an article about
regretting that, and I haven't had a chance to apologize
to them. I think they probably won't ever speak to me,
which I fully understand. But yeah, it's easy that they're
The production company is doing a great job to get
us emotionally involved and hating and loving these people. But
(38:41):
I think we should just view them as actors essentially,
and treat them as you would an actor, an actor
who's not getting paid. But yeah, I think we all
fall prey to being mean, and it's a good reminder
that we should just be better humans.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I then wanted to talk about Olivia Fraser, who's probably
the one cast member that I have the most regrets
towards and who I'm thankful accepted the apology I made
to her a couple of years ago. Per season, she
was the ultimate villain the way they portrayed it, because
previously we'd had girls cheat and you kind of know
that behavior. You're like, Okay, she's a cheater. But how
(39:16):
Olivia was portrayed. She was portrayed as going against the
girls and trying to bring down another woman, which kind
of hit viewers differently, and I.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Got swept up in that.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
And then I released a book last year kind of
talking about Mostly it was about my personal life and
a relationship falling apart, but I also discussed my career
and I want to read you an extract from there
because I've realized a lot for reflecting, and I'll read
it now. It says I made videos dragging pictures of
Olivia onto a pile of rubbish, and I made post
(39:48):
calling her a liar. I didn't just contribute to the
immense backlash. I feel I led it, as I had
the biggest platform now with one hundred thousand followers, Even
as my post was attract tens of thousands of comments
of abuse at her, and even as the press reported
how Olivia had to have police stationed outside of her
home after her address had been leaked, I still didn't
stop finding the flames of hate on my page. Not
(40:10):
only did I make it clear that I disapproved of
Olivia's actions on the show, but I made it clear
I didn't like her as a person. I got so
swept up with being a leading voice in the public
outrage that I never once stopped to think about everything
I'd previously learned from being in the media.
Speaker 15 (40:24):
That is so powerful. It shows how easy it is
to get involved in loving or hating whoever is on
the show. But you're right, you don't know her. None
of us know these people, actually know these people.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
So then a few months after that season aired, when
you know, I realized I would never be friends with
Olivia if we cross paths, She's not going to like
me and I.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
Don't like her.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
And then I remember there was an incident where I
was I walked out of a train station in King's
Cross in Sydney. I was going to like a magazine
launch party, and I actually saw her there. It was
a Friday, and actually stood on the street alone, looking
maybe a little intimidated, overwhelmed, because you know, these it's
the drunk Friday night crowd all around, and I could
see people like pointing and giggling and you know, whispering
(41:09):
comments like that's her, that's the bitch.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
And I just felt so.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Guilty and sad for this person.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
And then I approached and.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I was like, hey, Olivia Josh, like are you okay?
Speaker 5 (41:21):
And she was like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Then I was like, you probably hate me, but like,
are you going to this magazine party? I'm going there
if you want to, like wait with me for your friends,
because I just felt no matter what I'd watched and
what i'd posted about her, I saw a woman stood
on the street alone in a vulnerable position with people
kind of mocking it openly, and I just felt terrible.
And then she says to me, Nah, like I don't
(41:45):
hate you. I understand you have a job to do,
and but even then, like, yeah, I did have a job.
I covered these shows, but like that doesn't excuse the
way I posted about her. And then we ended up
walking to the event together and she sat with some
of my friends until her group arrived, and then we
ended up just having a chat and I kind of said,
(42:05):
I will never kind of approve of your behavior on
the show, but I'm gonna kind of see you now
as a person i've just met, and the conversations by
having now and she was kind of apologetic of things
that had happened, and you know, she obviously has regrets
she'll live with, but like something kind of shifted for
me that night where I realized, Fuck, these really are
just real people. And then randomly that night she met
(42:27):
a friend of mine who had just moved to Australia
from London and he was there for Foremums filming a
movie and they started dating, which meant I sided spending
a fair bit.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Of time with Olivia.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
And then yeah, I just got to know her, and
I thought, you know what, fuck, I I've been so
wrong that I'm so thankful she forgave me for how
I'd posted about her and how I led that outrage.
And I don't know, I think that's obviously not every
viewer can have an experience like that, but maybe yeah,
just reinforces that mentality of treat these people like humans.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
Not people villains.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
In my chat with Dr Morley, she then asked, how
do I approach my coverage now? Given everything I've learned
and the journey that I've been on.
Speaker 15 (43:08):
So how do you walk that line?
Speaker 8 (43:10):
Now?
Speaker 15 (43:10):
I'm so curious because you still obviously talk about maths
and cover all of this. How do you manage that well?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I still have the meme page, but I'm just more
cautious in what I post, Like I'll go along with storylines.
But every day I get hundreds of submissions like post
this post that, like just silly things. And there's a
girl in this season and people are kind of mocking
her appearance and they're putting pictures of her next to
like the Grinch, you know, things like that, and it's
just like, well, maybe five six years ago, i'd be like, yeah,
(43:37):
I'm going to post that because it's going to get
five thousand likes and ha ha. But like now I'm like, well, no,
like I don't mock her appearance. That doesn't mean it's
not funny, it's not relevant. Yeah, I'll have a laugh
if she says something stupid on the show. And then
this girl in Questions, she link her LinkedIn came out
and she there was a thing on there at the
(43:57):
top where she called herself Times person of the Year
in two thousand and five, but she was only ten
years old at the time, and then it was kind
of like a joke, which she later said because that
year Time magazine said everyone's the person of the year,
but you know, not everyone puts on their LinkedIn and
like that to me was funny. That to me, that's
fair game to make fun of because it's so ridiculous.
(44:20):
But like appearance, no, that's a no go. So like
I'm trying to tread that line and be fairer to
wrap up that little interview, and I supposed to wrap
up this episode. I then asked doctor Morley if she
has any advice, not just for me, but for everybody listening,
for the viewers of reality TV and the fans you
also love getting involved in the drama, jumping.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Online to comment and vent and share their thoughts.
Speaker 15 (44:44):
Maybe the best line to draw is the one that
you experienced of and for all of us, right, like,
if you met this person on the street, would you
feel okay with what you've said and posted about them?
If they knew all the things you'd said and all
the memes or whatever that you've thrown their way, would
you feel okay meeting them one on one? Like would
(45:04):
you feel like the best version of yourself? Would you
be okay with the lines that you maintained? And I
know it's hard to think that way, but like you
actually experienced it, it happens, So it's a good reminder. Listen,
being on a show like this can take down the
best of us depending on how good or bad of
an edit that you get. And we've seen with Love
Islands right a string of suicides, and we're a part
(45:27):
of that. The public is a part of that. The
way we treat people after being on these shows contributes
to their mental health or illness, and not that it's
our fault for you know, the actions that they take.
But we can certainly be a better part of the experience.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
And that is so true. I have a responsibility to
be a bat part of the experience. Every journalist, podcast,
social media commentaita can also be a bat pot of
the experience. And also, you guys, the funds of reality
TV can also be a bad pot of the experience.
Often when we then line following an episode, it can
feel like we're just shouting into an abyss and our
(46:04):
comments will be lost amongst the thousands of others.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
But that's just not entirely true.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
And a lot of the time, the people we are
talking about we'll read what we've posted and put it
out there, just like they will listen to what I
say on this podcast. And I suppose the final point
I want I get to here is, next time someone
from this show is pushed to such an extreme as
we've discussed in this episode, I don't want to personally
feel like I added to that, even in the slightest way,
(46:31):
and I suppose you guys wouldn't either,
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