June 6, 2024 • 33 mins
Summary
Lauren Crampsie shares her career journey, insights on making work work better, and practical leadership advice. She emphasizes the importance of understanding ego, embracing silence, and being authentic. She challenges the notion of top performers and highlights the significance of addressing the 'rotten fruit' in a team. Lauren also advocates for the value of offending and the need for genuine communication.
Chapters
00:00 Lauren's Career Journey and Leadership Insights
04:48 Challenging the Notion of Top Performers and Team Dynamics
06:35 Life-proofing your self-value
11:30 Take time to understand how your past influences you
12:20 The importance of understanding ego
15:08 "I don't like words like Executive."
16:05 "Treat everyone like they are the CEO"
17:00 Embrace silence
19:18 Importance of prioritizing and fostering genuine relationships
22:53 Detox your brain
24:14. Highlights the significance of addressing the 'rotten fruit' in a team.
29:36 "Never, ever, ever be afraid to offend someone."
Takeaways
- Understanding ego and its impact on leadership and personal growth
- Embracing silence as a tool for self-reflection and clarity
- Giving extra attention to the 'rotten fruit' in a team to improve dynamics and performance
- Advocating for genuine communication and the value of offending during early career in leadership
- Challenging the notion of focusing on top performers and emphasizing the importance of the entire team
- "Your ego is not your amigo."
- "I don't like words like Executive."
- "Treat everyone like they are the CEO"
#careerjourney #leadership #ego #silence #authenticity #teamdynamics #offending #communication #servantleadership #CEO #President #Journaling #LaurenCrampsie #MakeWorkWorkBetter #FYVConsulting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to the
Make Work Work Better Podcast,where we delve into the minds
and experiences of some of the mostinspiring leaders in business today.
I'm your host, doctor Marc Reynolds,and I'm thrilled to introduce
to youour special guest today, Lauren Crampsie.
Lauren, thank you for joining us today.
You're quite welcome, Marc.
Happy to be here.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your career journey?
(00:28):
The first third ofit was fairly traditional,
in terms ofI worked, a, famous storied, ad agency
called Ogalvy and Mather,for almost 20 years, actually.
So I had a slight, stint, in televisionbefore then
because I wanted to be on, on TV, as most,
(00:49):
drama students, do,those of us that can play sports,
improvise in dramaand take acting lessons.
but after that,I went to, to tell stories.
And, that's really, why I stayed at Ogilvyas long as I did.
And my my rise there was very,
looking back,I think too quick, but it was very quick.
(01:09):
I was very lucky.I got promoted very quickly.
I was the first female everything.
So just for your audience,let's not even go there because,
anything you can imagine, likeusing the bathroom, to, being, a CMO.
I was the first female,but I was the youngest.
partner.
Youngest senior partner, youngest
director of business development,youngest CMO, first CMO of North America.
(01:32):
first female president of New York,which was our flagship office.
I was very lucky.
And, I stayed there not only because,
they allowed me the gift of being ableto raise a family while doing so.
I had two babies while I was,I was at Ogilvy, I think for me,
I love the idea of storytellingand I love the idea of,
(01:54):
being able to tell stories that movepeople and impact people, but also,
provide peoplewith an end product, that they need.
And that's what advertising is. That'swhat marketing is.
While my career, has now pivoted a bit,
that's still the sort of core and crux ofof what I believe in.
and, since Ogilvy, I have been, a CMO.
(02:16):
I've been a CMO of a sports team.
For those of youwho like European football or soccer,
as we call it in the United States,
I was the CMO of Chelsea,Football Club under new ownership.
So I did that for, about 18 months.
That's that was my most recent gig.
Before that, I was running an influencermarketing agency.
(02:36):
So working with, a lot of creatorslike Marc, and podcasters like Marc.
And, Mark ticks a lot of boxes, in termsof the Renaissance man, that that he is.
So, that was fun because it wasa very niche side of storytelling.
It sort of democratized media in that,an individual,
a creator could be the productand the message and the distribution.
(03:00):
and that was a really interesting placefor me to be,
because that was the first timethat I really got to operate
with, a distributionand a message and a product,
kind of all, togethercollapsing the funnel.
For those of youthat know, marketing, jargon,
that's what I used to call it, how,creators and influencers were the only,
entity, in marketing and advertisingsince the dawn of time
(03:22):
that could truly collapse the funnel.
and now I'm, transitioning,
to more of a risk portfolioside of my career.
So whereas most of my careerhas been fairly conservative
in terms of, the paycheck,I can expect, the promotions,
I can expect the stock,I can expect the, the day to day
(03:43):
I can expect, I'm now starting to toywith a bit more of the unexpected.
And that includes everythingfrom pitching investors
on raising capital to go out and buy,entertainment, media and sports assets
to, consulting, with companieslike Formula One on, what
their global strategy, IP strategyshould look like to, talking to to people
(04:08):
that are behind at the World Cup in 2026and how I can help there.
It's a bit more of a roller coaster,this, chapter of my career because,
although I have morecontrol of my schedule,
it is a bit more unpredictable,in terms of what I can expect
from, from day to day.
I think that sets itself up perfectly.
For what I was wanting to talk about next,and that is going
(04:31):
from the stable environmentto one that's less stable.
And you're in control of more.
It's not like a prescribeddo this, this, this and this.
It's a challenge in its own.
What are some of the lessons
that you've learned abouthow to make work work better for yourself.
What has got you to a point where you feellike this is even a choice to make?
Well, in all fairness,I'm not sure I'm at that point yet.
(04:52):
Talk to me againwhen I do the next podcast.
Or of course, of course, of.
Course, in in a in a couple of months.
Experience and wisdom.
And unfortunately for those of usthat want to stay young forever,
it comes with age, right?
The more you grow as a personand the more you diversify
(05:12):
what you mean to someone or something,whether it's a friend, a mom, a wife,
a partner, a father, an aunt and uncle,any of it,
you start to realize that you never willhave all the answers
and the same questions that you askedyourself, maybe when you were 18, 19,
20, 21 are still the same questionsyou're asking yourself now.
(05:36):
“Who am I?” “Whatam I supposed to be doing on this planet?”
Why do these things that I knowabout myself to be, flaws still there?
Do I really matter?
Those are still questionsI ask myself today.
I think the difference isI have the experience of living,
and the wisdom of, for the most part,everything will be okay
(05:59):
to not dwell on on those momentsand dwell on those questions.
In a pithy way, I would say,how do I make work work for me now
is I just know better.
I know better than to let
The naysayers in my brain controlmy brain.
I know better than to let the small stuff,eat away at me.
(06:23):
And I know better than to believe myself
to be anything less than, uniqueand valuable to the world.
I know you talk a lot about this, Marc.
You have to wake up every morningand know that, even if you do nothing
that day,but literally wake up, you're valuable
and I think that's very hardto think and believe,
(06:45):
when you're youngerand it gets easier to do that as you age.
And I think that'swhen it gets easier to take risks.
I mean, I'ma mom of two, about to be in my mid 40s.
people would argue this isn't exactly theright time in my life to be taking risks.
but I don't think I would have been
emotionally to your questionearlier, Marc, about the inner strength.
(07:07):
I don't think I would have beenemotionally prepared,
to take any type of risk.
Any type of risk, any earlier.
Yeah.
I've been able to watch your process and,and as you're going through
and for those of you that are listening tosome of what she's saying like, oh,
well, really, just everyone's valuable.
That's nice.
(07:27):
I think it's actually really crucialwhen we're talking especially
about executivesgiving yourself that kind of value
and permission, not trying to baseit on revenue I'm bringing in, though.
Yes. That's important to tell your board.
Your board is going to need to knowthat they're going to care about that.
But there's a different level underneaththat can often be neglected
when everything else is there.
(07:47):
I want to highlightthat is something that is easy to dismiss
as just sounding simple and trite,but it's really pretty huge.
100% because here's the reality.
Life happens to everyone.
No one is without trauma.
Yeah.
if you're someone that that is sittingon the other end of this,
(08:09):
if you're one of the million subscribersto Mark's Channel
and one of the 2 million peoplewatching this right now,
and if you think that this is all triteand this is all easy to say and.
When life happens to you,it doesn't become trite anymore.
In fact,if you don't practice understanding
and knowing that it isn't trite,it can really eff you up
(08:33):
when life happens, because it's often
in the moments of silencewhen we understand the most
and we question the mostand we fear the most.
That's why people go to bedwith their televisions on.
Right. Right.
and I think that, for me,and Mark knows this, I have a letter
that I wrote myself next to my bed,framed that I wrote myself.
(08:55):
Dear Lauren love, Lauren.
It's a two page letter and every time
I feel lost in myself, I read it.
And if it makes me feel uncomfortablewhen I'm reading it, I read it again
and I read it again, and I read it againuntil I can read it and it feels normal
and comfortable because it's not easy
(09:19):
to tell yourself that you're the gift.
Your breath is the gift.
Your being is the gift.
Your presence.
And being able to staypresent is the gift.
That's weird stuff, just to say out
loud and to feel, but it's necessary
(09:42):
when you are faced with life
and life's traumaand the not so nice part of life.
Yeah. I mean, I like to make it concrete.
If you are an executive.
Right?
And things are going great, you're risingup, you're bringing in lots of money.
You're you're making some really positivechanges that can feel really good.
(10:05):
And it can be like, oh, that's whyI'm valuable. That's why people need me.
But then the problem is what happenswhen the economy goes south and don't
donations or whatever drops off the facethe map.
Or investors decide to go somewhere elseor you have a turn and health,
well, I'm not valuable anymore.
I'm not doingthose things that made me important.
Or when you don't get that promotion.
(10:26):
That really then
can throw you into a really difficult loopwhere
if you've preempted that, you'vereally done this work ahead of time.
Those just become little road bumpsthat you move through and move past.
And I think when we look at the peoplethat a lot of people
would probably classify as successfulhuman beings, they would probably say that
(10:47):
it's because they didn't let the roadblockstop them.
It's because they they felt they knewsomething deeper that kept pushing them.
If you were to tell someone else, okay,I'm sitting here and I'm hearing this
and I can open my mind and say,I can see how this is valuable.
What are some things you actually do?
And you already shared one of the letter.
Anything else that came to your mindof how you arrived at this place,
(11:11):
or how you got yourselfto this more grounded sense of self?
Yeah.
I mean, again, it's not sexyand especially in today's, day and age.
First it's understanding your inner child.
And what I mean bythat is understanding that,
you are the way you arebecause of things that happened to you.
(11:31):
Yeah.
Not everyone can afford therapy.
Right. so, read a book on it.
There's a million different books.
Oprah, has sanctioned a bunch of them.
The practice. isn't that complicated.
Something happened to all of uswhen we were a child. Right.
So understanding what happened to you and,
how you can process thatand how that has made you who you are.
And by the way, when I say that,I don't mean it has to be dark.
(11:53):
I don't mean it has to be,detrimental to your mental health.
It can be as simpleas I lost my mom in a grocery store once,
and I couldn't find her for 10s15 seconds.
Two seconds.
but these books
give you practical applicationsto help you figure out what that is.
And then once you understand that,it allows you to do what is necessary on,
(12:17):
any journey to understanding, your valueand that's understanding your ego and the,
peaks and valleys of your egoand the pushes and pulls.
What are your triggers?
What'sgoing to push your ego into overdrive?
What's going to pull your ego back?
We all have an ego.
(12:38):
I often say to people, and to my husbandespecially your ego is not your amigo.
So many words get thrown around thesedays, and especially in social media.
And as we continueas a society to embrace mental wellness,
whether we're embracing itcorrectly or not.
Not for me to decide.
We put ego on this pedestal,in executive, life
where, we're taught that,you need to have an ego and you need to,
(13:01):
be prideful and you need to have this,
almost unsustainable level of confidence
in order to achievewhat you want to achieve and in order
to do this, hard job that we call CEOor CMO or CFO or whatever the case may be.
And the reality is, it'sthe opposite of that.
You need to not have an ego.
You need to not, have, pride.
(13:24):
But the only way to dothat is to understand what it is to you.
And once you understand what it is to you,how to keep it in check.
Like for me.
My ego was rootedin anger and entitlement.
That's at a high level.
Unique to me, it's that I was anonly child and I had an alcoholic father.
(13:46):
So I believe that I was owed something.
The world owed me something.
and that's how I lived.
I would say, up toand through the pandemic,
it peaked at the pandemic,the anger and the entitlement.
and then, that'swhen I really started doing the work.
And what drivesyour ego is different for everyone.
(14:07):
but, for me, it was that it wasI was entitled and I was angry.
I can come up with so many anecdotesthroughout my career
where that played out.I said, I just said promotions.
I didn't get peoplethat were brought in to be my new boss.
Why them and not me?
as opposed to the they're here
to make me the why, right?
(14:29):
They're here to make me better.
I was having this conversation with my sonlast night.
Actually, my son's only, he's almost 12,but he's a very old soul,
and he's sort of spiritually mature,and he doesn't like one of his teachers.
and I was saying to him, Drake, what?You're looking at this all wrong.
You need to use herto make yourself better.
If she thinks you distract,the people around you too much,
(14:52):
And you think you're just engagingin a conversation, they already started.
Then just stop engaging in theconversation that they already started.
See if she treats you differently.
Learn about yourself through the pain
of not feeling like this teacher,likes you or that you like this teacher.
I don't like words like executive.
I have a very mmm reaction to it.
(15:14):
I don't like it,because at the end of the day,
it's a labelthat we put on a tranche of people
that may or may not understandthe enormous responsibility they have.
I am a big believer in accountability,
and I'm also a big believer in
when you're responsiblefor creating and curating an atmosphere
(15:39):
and environment,anything that happens in that atmosphere
and environmentthat is subject to scrutiny is on you.
And I just don't think executives
are held accountableand are held to that standard.
And I think it's it's a big reasonwhy I don't like the word.
I think I would like the wordif I felt like
(16:02):
It was a sort of stateof professional being.
My dad taught me very early on treateveryone like they're the CEO.
And that's what I did.
throughout my entire career, everyonefrom the security guard, at check in,
to the cleaning professionals at nightwhen I was working late.
Everyone was a CEO.
That's a bit of the sort of anarchistside of me, the non-conforming side of me,
(16:24):
that has never really respondedwell to that word.
That's a really helpful paradigmand mind shift to make.
What would you say are some of the toptools that helped you adjust your mindset?
We made this switched from versionA of self to version 2.0.
What are some of the practical toolsyou mentioned?
(16:46):
Journaling, as a potential one,which has a lot of
data behind why that successfuland an important practice.
And it is it is. Yeah.
Is there anything elsethat stands out to you
as things that really were valuable to youand making that switch?
Silence. And I don't mean meditation.
(17:07):
Look, meditationworks for a lot of people.
I do think it's it's especially good
for recovering addicts, and or alcoholics,
because it, it providesa healthier addiction.
but it's not for everyone.
And I understand that.
And I understand people that havean adverse reaction to meditation.
And that's why I say silence.
Ultimately it's about
(17:30):
sitting with
yourself in a way that forces your mind
to get what it needs to getand then relax.
I used to be one of those peoplethat fell asleep with the TV on.
Yeah. And I didn't even realize why.
As I said earlier, I'm an only child.
My father passed away, almostsix years ago now, for the first year
(17:51):
after he passed,I would only watch TV on my laptop.
It didn't even occur to methat I was doing it.
It wasn't until I understood
silence, that I realized how insane
the circle of life is inthat when we're being developed
(18:12):
and formed as humans, we do thatin this very, safe, secure cocoon.
And when we feel our most
underdeveloped, undeveloped, lost, etc.,
It is Subconscioushuman nature to seek that out again.
And that's what I was doingafter my dad died.
(18:32):
Ultimately, what silence does is
it allows you to see and feel
the extraordinary bigness of the universe.
I can't describe definitively
why that had the impactit had on me, to be honest, Marc.
But I can say that, I now seek
(18:53):
silence out in different ways.
And I've also never felt truly lonely,since I started doing, the work.
I agree with you.
I think taking timejust to let things be silent,
even though it can be so excruciating I’min New York City, by the way.
It can be so hard tojust let yourself sit there
(19:14):
in silence and not pick up your phoneand just to stop.
Right.
On the flip side, just becauseI have insider information, I also know
that in balancing that you have.
Really been deliberate in
finding other people to have to discover
the human sides of you,to develop those, to work on those.
(19:37):
You've not only isolated. Right.
Though that's a huge step.
But there's the next stepafter that of coming out
and choosing to interact with peoplein meaningful ways
and reaching for help,or reaching for people
who can act as good mirrorsto help us see, who we are.
(19:59):
And not just interacting in business,business, business, business or here's
my duty, here's my role, but let's havea real human conversation, it seems.
to have been an important partof the journey too.
I agree with you,and you've been instrumental in helping me
ascertain who should be in that network
and who'sokay to to be a little bit more, siloed.
(20:21):
but, I would say that balance has been byfar the hardest part of this journey,
because I was a very,very, very, very social person.
Now I realizeI was I'm really an introvert.
and that's part of the reasonwhy I burnt out when I did,
because I was overfilling my cupand overfilling my cup
and overfilling my cupand I, never really understood that I was
(20:41):
that I'm actually a extroverted introvert.
Now, at the same time.
and hopefully
this won't come backto haunt me later in life.
But I used to hate being at home.
I used to have anxietybeing in my living room.
I would hide in my bedroom
(21:04):
and I had two kidsand one of them is, ASD autism spectrum.
So, the bedroom was not the placefor me to be.
And now, my home is the only place
I want to be, and my living roomis the only place I want to be.
With my familyis the only place I want to be.
And again, this is why understandingyour ego is so critical.
You have to look at everythingthrough the lens of, well, yeah,
(21:26):
that might have happened or yeah,I might be a little less social now, but.
Who am I spendingall my time with my family?
Is I really so bad, Right.
When you meet someone
that is truly powerful, like,if I'm looking at, Lauren.
So she brought me out to work with thisinfluencer agency, and some of their team.
(21:48):
So we do this workshop,and then I go out to
to dinnerwith a few of of the leaders that night,
and without any prompting,they just start talking about
how much she's changedtheir life as human beings.
Because she would listen to them.
She would value them as a human.
She was trying to mentor themand help them reach their goals.
(22:10):
I don't even think Lauren realizeshalf the time
what she's doing with these people,because it's just who she is.
It's just that's that'swho she's chosen to become.
And so again, I would challengethose that initially hear
some of these things and think, oh,this feels like soft goods.
How do I measure this?
there are ways we can measure it,but really spending time in silence,
(22:30):
like you're saying, finding other peoplethat are really going
to help you to come to your ownconclusions and decisions
and guide you through some of that,and then really choosing
who do you want to become as a human,not just as a business leader?
It's like what you're saying, really,everything we're should do is
so that we can be engaged
and happy with who we arein our living room, with our family.
(22:53):
Just on journaling for one thing.One second Marc.
Yeah, I wouldn't even call itjournaling in the traditional way
that we think about journaling.
It's more stream of consciousness,
It's almost like annotating your brain
because I think the word journalingcan get very intimidating to people.
I mean, I know it was for me,and they feel like
(23:14):
they have to follow a certain formator it means waking up in the morning.
I'm grateful for the food in my fridge.
And, the sun is shining.
People that are stressed out,
run or sprint or do hit workoutsor whatever and sweat or whatever,
like it's mentalsweat, it's getting out the mental sweat.
That's really what it is.
Sorry, I love it.
No, I think that's a great wayof looking at it.
(23:36):
And you're right,people get really intimidated by that.
But it's a great way to detox your brainand clarify your thoughts.
and to externalize what's going on inside
so that you can get that brainto slow down and focus on what matters.
Right. Exactly.
When you've worked with teams of people.
Yes, groups of people,or you've seen other teams of people.
(23:56):
Where do you see the common pitfalls being
and what are some things that you've seenthat have remedied
that, that have changedthe dynamic, have helped
these groups go from dysfunctionalto efficient
groups of people that are able to workand collaborate together.
The biggest pitfall I find isthat there's always
(24:18):
the rotten fruit in the fruit basket.
Always. And it's usually not their fault.
and if it is,you got to do something about it,
and that's more about taking,disciplinary action.
But nine times out of ten, it'snot their fault.
And you are better served...
any manager, any line manager,all the way up to to CEO,
(24:41):
you are better servedspending 90% with that,
rotten apple
and 10% with the orangesand the grapes and the bananas.
Then you are saying, what,that apples rotten.
I don't want to look at it.I don't want to touch it.
I don't I'mjust going to make all this fruit
(25:02):
shine brighterin the hopes that no one will notice.
And that is the biggest,biggest, biggest, biggest, biggest, flaw
I see in management and managers,
they don't deal with the rotten fruit.
I'm a believer in accountability.
Guess what can take downan entire organization.
(25:25):
That's right. One employee.
You're ignoring the
bottom 20%because you are going to riff them
in the fourth quarter anyway,
because you have some rollingcorporate strategy
where every September, as you startto plan out the following year
or every July or whatever fiscal calendaryou're on,
you rotate out the bottom 20% bull crap.
(25:48):
Nobody does it for real.
Everyone talks about doing it.
Nobody actually gets rid of their bottom.
Nobody actually remixes talent.
Nobody actually does that. Right.
And it's because it's really hard. Yeah.
and expensive.
They are more influenced
by that extra 80%than they are by the people that show up
(26:12):
once a year in some keynotewith some fancy
slides, with animationsto tell them that they're great.
Unless that person is next to themin the quesadilla line, in the cafeteria
every day.
They're not going to be influencedby them.
They're going to be influenced bythe other 80% that they have to work with.
I'm such a big believer in thisbecause there's only one thing
(26:37):
that any top 20% performer cares about.
I'm sorry, I hate to be the bearer of badnews on this, There's only one thing
they care about, and it's green and it's
cold, and it's hard okay.
So take that pot of moneythat you had put aside for the great
(26:57):
senior leadership retreat
in wherever and split it upbetween the 250 people.
It's always 250 people, by the way.
They get invited,
split it up to the 250 peopleand give it to them in their pockets,
and then teach themhow to invest it properly and teach them
how to build generational wealth.
And don't talk to them at allabout, the company that they work for.
(27:19):
And then get the bottom 20%or the other 80%
or the other 50% togetherand spend the retreat money on them.
And take them through exercisesthat help them understand that it's okay
to not be okay, and it's okayto be confused, and it's okay
to feel like, you have to be the smartest,the prettiest, the funniest, whatever.
(27:42):
Yeah,because the change happens bottom up.
It always happens from the bottom up,not from the top down.
A practical wayto deal with the rotten fruit, Okay.
Let's say you oversee a group In 10 peopleI would say you probably have one.
And that's probably it.
in most cases start having one on oneswith that person once a week.
(28:04):
Okay.
Have one on ones with everyone else onceevery other week.
it's going to happen.
The person that you're havingthe one on one with once a week.
The bad apple okay.
They feel seen and heard.
And guess what? That's not going to do.
That's not going to play out as ego.
And bragger behavior
(28:26):
in the team meetings that you're not inbecause you're going
to be working with that personand you're going to be helping them.
they're going to get better in those teammeetings, right?
Yeah. Now someone may say, well, yeah.
But then if you're nine peoplethat, deserve that one on one with you.
And they're the peoplethat are doing a great job
and they don't have the bad attitudeand they don't have the
how are they going to feel?
They're going to feel likeyou are the smartest boss
(28:49):
they have ever had,because you found the bad apple,
and you're working with itonce a week to make it better,
and you think they want to be with youonce a week? Probably not.
They got enough to dobecause they're good performers.
So that's just like a practical example.
And just to take it one step further,
I have two quick anecdotes, Marc,if that’s okay?
I once had someone ask me,how do you identify, like who's
(29:11):
bringing the team down or,
how do you identify that the naysayerin the team or the nonbeliever?
I think it was nonbeliever in the team.
And what did I say? Sit in silence.
That's it. That's it.
Just watch and listen
and you'll know in an hour, if not less.
Know that's anecdote number one.
Anecdote number two is a bit off topic,but there's a rampant, idea
(29:36):
in corporate America right nowaround, offending people.
Right. Frankly, it's always been there.
But I think it's even worse nowbecause the good news is
there's more accountabilityand there's more consequence
of offending an individualor a group of individuals.
Right?
But as a leader, never, ever,
ever, everbe afraid to offend someone, ever.
(29:57):
Because you'll know when you didand you'll never do it again.
Because here's what happenspeople are afraid of offending people
and they're niceand they hide under their desks
and they don't speak up too much.
And those tend to be
the people that end up getting promoted,in some cases, end up running companies.
And then you want to knowwhen they offend people,
(30:18):
when it's too late,
and you want to know whythey offend people
because they now feel like, oh, well,that's like, they have so much power.
They're in charge.They can say whatever they want, right?
Because everyone's telling themwhat they want to hear.
But at that point, the sooner you offendsomeone, the sooner you learn.
The sooner you learn how to be inclusive,the sooner you learn how to be a servant,
(30:39):
which is what every leader needsto be a servant.
In my opinion, it's a zero sum game.
If you hit itearly enough in your career and,
and the reason why I'm reading this nowis because I had
I have someone that that it is a is it my,
my partner in in business,
now, who I worked withfor a very long time,
(31:01):
we were in a in a group chatwith someone yesterday,
and he said he texted mebecause this is the other thing,
we can do a separate podcast on
just like, texting etiquette andand professional environments.
But he saw I texted me.
Oh, I wouldn't say that if I were you.
what you said, like, I, I don't want tooffend him and something like that.
And I wrote back and I said, I do.
I said, because there's only one personright now in this professional environment
(31:25):
that I'm afraid of offending, and that'syou as my trusted business partner.
and by the way, you just offended meby texting that Right.
I'm giving youryour listeners permission to offend.
so that they learn.
Yeah.
It's not like you're purposely tryingto offend people, but we have to learn
how to speak with our own authentic voice,and be who we are.
Because if we don't,we never will until it's too late.
(31:48):
And then all of a sudden, it doesn't work.
It comes out in a waythat we don't intend,
and we have to make space for other peopleto be able to do the same.
And look a lot of people say,follow your gut.
My advice in that regard would beif you feel like it's
going to be offensive,turn it into a question.
And then ask it as a question.
That's the best way of getting around,listening to your gut,
(32:11):
but also getting to an answer.
And I think that also goes backto your thing of ego.
Yeah.
The priority really comes back toI want to know the truth.
I want to know what you really thinkand feel.
I want to know the real situation.
I want to know the real facts.
Then that
that is really the prioritythat comes down and takes away ego,
(32:32):
takes awaythe things, gets us to actually sit
and listen in silencelike you're talking about.
And and that's one of the thingsthat, as we work together
that I've really appreciatedis that when it comes down to it,
Lauren will fight me tooth and nailif she doesn't feel like it's true
to her experience. Right?
But as soon as we come to something,even if it's hard or it feels like
it's like, hard self truth to realize,she'll immediately
(32:54):
snap it upas long as it feels true and genuine.
And I think that's the signof a really strong leadership.
Lauren, thank you so much for coming onand sharing
these ideas and thoughts,for being so candid and vulnerable
and willing to just share these thoughtsand these lessons learned over a career.
Right?
Some of the really hard lessons to learnthat took a lot of work and effort.
(33:17):
So thank you.
Thanks for joining us today.
Thank you, Marc, for having me.
And thank you to everyone for listeningIf anyone wants to ask me any more
questions or get in touch with me,my, Instagram is @byLaurenCrampsie.
and, yeah, you can DM me on Instagram.
Thank you.
And thank you, Mark.
You've been a great coach.
(33:39):
and partner, to meon on my own career journey.
And like and subscribe.
And like and like and subscribe.All right.
We'll see you nexttime. Thank you everybody.
Welcome to the
Make Work Work Better Podcast,where we delve into the minds
and experiences of some of the mostinspiring leaders in business today.
I'm your host, doctor Marc Reynolds,and I'm thrilled to introduce
to youour special guest today, Lauren Crampsie.
Lauren, thank you for joining us today.
You're quite welcome, Marc.
Happy to be here.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your career journey?
(00:28):
The first third ofit was fairly traditional,
in terms ofI worked, a, famous storied, ad agency
called Ogalvy and Mather,for almost 20 years, actually.
So I had a slight, stint, in televisionbefore then
because I wanted to be on, on TV, as most,
(00:49):
drama students, do,those of us that can play sports,
improvise in dramaand take acting lessons.
but after that,I went to, to tell stories.
And, that's really, why I stayed at Ogilvyas long as I did.
And my my rise there was very,
looking back,I think too quick, but it was very quick.
(01:09):
I was very lucky.I got promoted very quickly.
I was the first female everything.
So just for your audience,let's not even go there because,
anything you can imagine, likeusing the bathroom, to, being, a CMO.
I was the first female,but I was the youngest.
partner.
Youngest senior partner, youngest
director of business development,youngest CMO, first CMO of North America.
(01:32):
first female president of New York,which was our flagship office.
I was very lucky.
And, I stayed there not only because,
they allowed me the gift of being ableto raise a family while doing so.
I had two babies while I was,I was at Ogilvy, I think for me,
I love the idea of storytellingand I love the idea of,
(01:54):
being able to tell stories that movepeople and impact people, but also,
provide peoplewith an end product, that they need.
And that's what advertising is. That'swhat marketing is.
While my career, has now pivoted a bit,
that's still the sort of core and crux ofof what I believe in.
and, since Ogilvy, I have been, a CMO.
(02:16):
I've been a CMO of a sports team.
For those of youwho like European football or soccer,
as we call it in the United States,
I was the CMO of Chelsea,Football Club under new ownership.
So I did that for, about 18 months.
That's that was my most recent gig.
Before that, I was running an influencermarketing agency.
(02:36):
So working with, a lot of creatorslike Marc, and podcasters like Marc.
And, Mark ticks a lot of boxes, in termsof the Renaissance man, that that he is.
So, that was fun because it wasa very niche side of storytelling.
It sort of democratized media in that,an individual,
a creator could be the productand the message and the distribution.
(03:00):
and that was a really interesting placefor me to be,
because that was the first timethat I really got to operate
with, a distributionand a message and a product,
kind of all, togethercollapsing the funnel.
For those of youthat know, marketing, jargon,
that's what I used to call it, how,creators and influencers were the only,
entity, in marketing and advertisingsince the dawn of time
(03:22):
that could truly collapse the funnel.
and now I'm, transitioning,
to more of a risk portfolioside of my career.
So whereas most of my careerhas been fairly conservative
in terms of, the paycheck,I can expect, the promotions,
I can expect the stock,I can expect the, the day to day
(03:43):
I can expect, I'm now starting to toywith a bit more of the unexpected.
And that includes everythingfrom pitching investors
on raising capital to go out and buy,entertainment, media and sports assets
to, consulting, with companieslike Formula One on, what
their global strategy, IP strategyshould look like to, talking to to people
(04:08):
that are behind at the World Cup in 2026and how I can help there.
It's a bit more of a roller coaster,this, chapter of my career because,
although I have morecontrol of my schedule,
it is a bit more unpredictable,in terms of what I can expect
from, from day to day.
I think that sets itself up perfectly.
For what I was wanting to talk about next,and that is going
(04:31):
from the stable environmentto one that's less stable.
And you're in control of more.
It's not like a prescribeddo this, this, this and this.
It's a challenge in its own.
What are some of the lessons
that you've learned abouthow to make work work better for yourself.
What has got you to a point where you feellike this is even a choice to make?
Well, in all fairness,I'm not sure I'm at that point yet.
(04:52):
Talk to me againwhen I do the next podcast.
Or of course, of course, of.
Course, in in a in a couple of months.
Experience and wisdom.
And unfortunately for those of usthat want to stay young forever,
it comes with age, right?
The more you grow as a personand the more you diversify
(05:12):
what you mean to someone or something,whether it's a friend, a mom, a wife,
a partner, a father, an aunt and uncle,any of it,
you start to realize that you never willhave all the answers
and the same questions that you askedyourself, maybe when you were 18, 19,
20, 21 are still the same questionsyou're asking yourself now.
(05:36):
“Who am I?” “Whatam I supposed to be doing on this planet?”
Why do these things that I knowabout myself to be, flaws still there?
Do I really matter?
Those are still questionsI ask myself today.
I think the difference isI have the experience of living,
and the wisdom of, for the most part,everything will be okay
(05:59):
to not dwell on on those momentsand dwell on those questions.
In a pithy way, I would say,how do I make work work for me now
is I just know better.
I know better than to let
The naysayers in my brain controlmy brain.
I know better than to let the small stuff,eat away at me.
(06:23):
And I know better than to believe myself
to be anything less than, uniqueand valuable to the world.
I know you talk a lot about this, Marc.
You have to wake up every morningand know that, even if you do nothing
that day,but literally wake up, you're valuable
and I think that's very hardto think and believe,
(06:45):
when you're youngerand it gets easier to do that as you age.
And I think that'swhen it gets easier to take risks.
I mean, I'ma mom of two, about to be in my mid 40s.
people would argue this isn't exactly theright time in my life to be taking risks.
but I don't think I would have been
emotionally to your questionearlier, Marc, about the inner strength.
(07:07):
I don't think I would have beenemotionally prepared,
to take any type of risk.
Any type of risk, any earlier.
Yeah.
I've been able to watch your process and,and as you're going through
and for those of you that are listening tosome of what she's saying like, oh,
well, really, just everyone's valuable.
That's nice.
(07:27):
I think it's actually really crucialwhen we're talking especially
about executivesgiving yourself that kind of value
and permission, not trying to baseit on revenue I'm bringing in, though.
Yes. That's important to tell your board.
Your board is going to need to knowthat they're going to care about that.
But there's a different level underneaththat can often be neglected
when everything else is there.
(07:47):
I want to highlightthat is something that is easy to dismiss
as just sounding simple and trite,but it's really pretty huge.
100% because here's the reality.
Life happens to everyone.
No one is without trauma.
Yeah.
if you're someone that that is sittingon the other end of this,
(08:09):
if you're one of the million subscribersto Mark's Channel
and one of the 2 million peoplewatching this right now,
and if you think that this is all triteand this is all easy to say and.
When life happens to you,it doesn't become trite anymore.
In fact,if you don't practice understanding
and knowing that it isn't trite,it can really eff you up
(08:33):
when life happens, because it's often
in the moments of silencewhen we understand the most
and we question the mostand we fear the most.
That's why people go to bedwith their televisions on.
Right. Right.
and I think that, for me,and Mark knows this, I have a letter
that I wrote myself next to my bed,framed that I wrote myself.
(08:55):
Dear Lauren love, Lauren.
It's a two page letter and every time
I feel lost in myself, I read it.
And if it makes me feel uncomfortablewhen I'm reading it, I read it again
and I read it again, and I read it againuntil I can read it and it feels normal
and comfortable because it's not easy
(09:19):
to tell yourself that you're the gift.
Your breath is the gift.
Your being is the gift.
Your presence.
And being able to staypresent is the gift.
That's weird stuff, just to say out
loud and to feel, but it's necessary
(09:42):
when you are faced with life
and life's traumaand the not so nice part of life.
Yeah. I mean, I like to make it concrete.
If you are an executive.
Right?
And things are going great, you're risingup, you're bringing in lots of money.
You're you're making some really positivechanges that can feel really good.
(10:05):
And it can be like, oh, that's whyI'm valuable. That's why people need me.
But then the problem is what happenswhen the economy goes south and don't
donations or whatever drops off the facethe map.
Or investors decide to go somewhere elseor you have a turn and health,
well, I'm not valuable anymore.
I'm not doingthose things that made me important.
Or when you don't get that promotion.
(10:26):
That really then
can throw you into a really difficult loopwhere
if you've preempted that, you'vereally done this work ahead of time.
Those just become little road bumpsthat you move through and move past.
And I think when we look at the peoplethat a lot of people
would probably classify as successfulhuman beings, they would probably say that
(10:47):
it's because they didn't let the roadblockstop them.
It's because they they felt they knewsomething deeper that kept pushing them.
If you were to tell someone else, okay,I'm sitting here and I'm hearing this
and I can open my mind and say,I can see how this is valuable.
What are some things you actually do?
And you already shared one of the letter.
Anything else that came to your mindof how you arrived at this place,
(11:11):
or how you got yourselfto this more grounded sense of self?
Yeah.
I mean, again, it's not sexyand especially in today's, day and age.
First it's understanding your inner child.
And what I mean bythat is understanding that,
you are the way you arebecause of things that happened to you.
(11:31):
Yeah.
Not everyone can afford therapy.
Right. so, read a book on it.
There's a million different books.
Oprah, has sanctioned a bunch of them.
The practice. isn't that complicated.
Something happened to all of uswhen we were a child. Right.
So understanding what happened to you and,
how you can process thatand how that has made you who you are.
And by the way, when I say that,I don't mean it has to be dark.
(11:53):
I don't mean it has to be,detrimental to your mental health.
It can be as simpleas I lost my mom in a grocery store once,
and I couldn't find her for 10s15 seconds.
Two seconds.
but these books
give you practical applicationsto help you figure out what that is.
And then once you understand that,it allows you to do what is necessary on,
(12:17):
any journey to understanding, your valueand that's understanding your ego and the,
peaks and valleys of your egoand the pushes and pulls.
What are your triggers?
What'sgoing to push your ego into overdrive?
What's going to pull your ego back?
We all have an ego.
(12:38):
I often say to people, and to my husbandespecially your ego is not your amigo.
So many words get thrown around thesedays, and especially in social media.
And as we continueas a society to embrace mental wellness,
whether we're embracing itcorrectly or not.
Not for me to decide.
We put ego on this pedestal,in executive, life
where, we're taught that,you need to have an ego and you need to,
(13:01):
be prideful and you need to have this,
almost unsustainable level of confidence
in order to achievewhat you want to achieve and in order
to do this, hard job that we call CEOor CMO or CFO or whatever the case may be.
And the reality is, it'sthe opposite of that.
You need to not have an ego.
You need to not, have, pride.
(13:24):
But the only way to dothat is to understand what it is to you.
And once you understand what it is to you,how to keep it in check.
Like for me.
My ego was rootedin anger and entitlement.
That's at a high level.
Unique to me, it's that I was anonly child and I had an alcoholic father.
(13:46):
So I believe that I was owed something.
The world owed me something.
and that's how I lived.
I would say, up toand through the pandemic,
it peaked at the pandemic,the anger and the entitlement.
and then, that'swhen I really started doing the work.
And what drivesyour ego is different for everyone.
(14:07):
but, for me, it was that it wasI was entitled and I was angry.
I can come up with so many anecdotesthroughout my career
where that played out.I said, I just said promotions.
I didn't get peoplethat were brought in to be my new boss.
Why them and not me?
as opposed to the they're here
to make me the why, right?
(14:29):
They're here to make me better.
I was having this conversation with my sonlast night.
Actually, my son's only, he's almost 12,but he's a very old soul,
and he's sort of spiritually mature,and he doesn't like one of his teachers.
and I was saying to him, Drake, what?You're looking at this all wrong.
You need to use herto make yourself better.
If she thinks you distract,the people around you too much,
(14:52):
And you think you're just engagingin a conversation, they already started.
Then just stop engaging in theconversation that they already started.
See if she treats you differently.
Learn about yourself through the pain
of not feeling like this teacher,likes you or that you like this teacher.
I don't like words like executive.
I have a very mmm reaction to it.
(15:14):
I don't like it,because at the end of the day,
it's a labelthat we put on a tranche of people
that may or may not understandthe enormous responsibility they have.
I am a big believer in accountability,
and I'm also a big believer in
when you're responsiblefor creating and curating an atmosphere
(15:39):
and environment,anything that happens in that atmosphere
and environmentthat is subject to scrutiny is on you.
And I just don't think executives
are held accountableand are held to that standard.
And I think it's it's a big reasonwhy I don't like the word.
I think I would like the wordif I felt like
(16:02):
It was a sort of stateof professional being.
My dad taught me very early on treateveryone like they're the CEO.
And that's what I did.
throughout my entire career, everyonefrom the security guard, at check in,
to the cleaning professionals at nightwhen I was working late.
Everyone was a CEO.
That's a bit of the sort of anarchistside of me, the non-conforming side of me,
(16:24):
that has never really respondedwell to that word.
That's a really helpful paradigmand mind shift to make.
What would you say are some of the toptools that helped you adjust your mindset?
We made this switched from versionA of self to version 2.0.
What are some of the practical toolsyou mentioned?
(16:46):
Journaling, as a potential one,which has a lot of
data behind why that successfuland an important practice.
And it is it is. Yeah.
Is there anything elsethat stands out to you
as things that really were valuable to youand making that switch?
Silence. And I don't mean meditation.
(17:07):
Look, meditationworks for a lot of people.
I do think it's it's especially good
for recovering addicts, and or alcoholics,
because it, it providesa healthier addiction.
but it's not for everyone.
And I understand that.
And I understand people that havean adverse reaction to meditation.
And that's why I say silence.
Ultimately it's about
(17:30):
sitting with
yourself in a way that forces your mind
to get what it needs to getand then relax.
I used to be one of those peoplethat fell asleep with the TV on.
Yeah. And I didn't even realize why.
As I said earlier, I'm an only child.
My father passed away, almostsix years ago now, for the first year
(17:51):
after he passed,I would only watch TV on my laptop.
It didn't even occur to methat I was doing it.
It wasn't until I understood
silence, that I realized how insane
the circle of life is inthat when we're being developed
(18:12):
and formed as humans, we do thatin this very, safe, secure cocoon.
And when we feel our most
underdeveloped, undeveloped, lost, etc.,
It is Subconscioushuman nature to seek that out again.
And that's what I was doingafter my dad died.
(18:32):
Ultimately, what silence does is
it allows you to see and feel
the extraordinary bigness of the universe.
I can't describe definitively
why that had the impactit had on me, to be honest, Marc.
But I can say that, I now seek
(18:53):
silence out in different ways.
And I've also never felt truly lonely,since I started doing, the work.
I agree with you.
I think taking timejust to let things be silent,
even though it can be so excruciating I’min New York City, by the way.
It can be so hard tojust let yourself sit there
(19:14):
in silence and not pick up your phoneand just to stop.
Right.
On the flip side, just becauseI have insider information, I also know
that in balancing that you have.
Really been deliberate in
finding other people to have to discover
the human sides of you,to develop those, to work on those.
(19:37):
You've not only isolated. Right.
Though that's a huge step.
But there's the next stepafter that of coming out
and choosing to interact with peoplein meaningful ways
and reaching for help,or reaching for people
who can act as good mirrorsto help us see, who we are.
(19:59):
And not just interacting in business,business, business, business or here's
my duty, here's my role, but let's havea real human conversation, it seems.
to have been an important partof the journey too.
I agree with you,and you've been instrumental in helping me
ascertain who should be in that network
and who'sokay to to be a little bit more, siloed.
(20:21):
but, I would say that balance has been byfar the hardest part of this journey,
because I was a very,very, very, very social person.
Now I realizeI was I'm really an introvert.
and that's part of the reasonwhy I burnt out when I did,
because I was overfilling my cupand overfilling my cup
and overfilling my cupand I, never really understood that I was
(20:41):
that I'm actually a extroverted introvert.
Now, at the same time.
and hopefully
this won't come backto haunt me later in life.
But I used to hate being at home.
I used to have anxietybeing in my living room.
I would hide in my bedroom
(21:04):
and I had two kidsand one of them is, ASD autism spectrum.
So, the bedroom was not the placefor me to be.
And now, my home is the only place
I want to be, and my living roomis the only place I want to be.
With my familyis the only place I want to be.
And again, this is why understandingyour ego is so critical.
You have to look at everythingthrough the lens of, well, yeah,
(21:26):
that might have happened or yeah,I might be a little less social now, but.
Who am I spendingall my time with my family?
Is I really so bad, Right.
When you meet someone
that is truly powerful, like,if I'm looking at, Lauren.
So she brought me out to work with thisinfluencer agency, and some of their team.
(21:48):
So we do this workshop,and then I go out to
to dinnerwith a few of of the leaders that night,
and without any prompting,they just start talking about
how much she's changedtheir life as human beings.
Because she would listen to them.
She would value them as a human.
She was trying to mentor themand help them reach their goals.
(22:10):
I don't even think Lauren realizeshalf the time
what she's doing with these people,because it's just who she is.
It's just that's that'swho she's chosen to become.
And so again, I would challengethose that initially hear
some of these things and think, oh,this feels like soft goods.
How do I measure this?
there are ways we can measure it,but really spending time in silence,
(22:30):
like you're saying, finding other peoplethat are really going
to help you to come to your ownconclusions and decisions
and guide you through some of that,and then really choosing
who do you want to become as a human,not just as a business leader?
It's like what you're saying, really,everything we're should do is
so that we can be engaged
and happy with who we arein our living room, with our family.
(22:53):
Just on journaling for one thing.One second Marc.
Yeah, I wouldn't even call itjournaling in the traditional way
that we think about journaling.
It's more stream of consciousness,
It's almost like annotating your brain
because I think the word journalingcan get very intimidating to people.
I mean, I know it was for me,and they feel like
(23:14):
they have to follow a certain formator it means waking up in the morning.
I'm grateful for the food in my fridge.
And, the sun is shining.
People that are stressed out,
run or sprint or do hit workoutsor whatever and sweat or whatever,
like it's mentalsweat, it's getting out the mental sweat.
That's really what it is.
Sorry, I love it.
No, I think that's a great wayof looking at it.
(23:36):
And you're right,people get really intimidated by that.
But it's a great way to detox your brainand clarify your thoughts.
and to externalize what's going on inside
so that you can get that brainto slow down and focus on what matters.
Right. Exactly.
When you've worked with teams of people.
Yes, groups of people,or you've seen other teams of people.
(23:56):
Where do you see the common pitfalls being
and what are some things that you've seenthat have remedied
that, that have changedthe dynamic, have helped
these groups go from dysfunctionalto efficient
groups of people that are able to workand collaborate together.
The biggest pitfall I find isthat there's always
(24:18):
the rotten fruit in the fruit basket.
Always. And it's usually not their fault.
and if it is,you got to do something about it,
and that's more about taking,disciplinary action.
But nine times out of ten, it'snot their fault.
And you are better served...
any manager, any line manager,all the way up to to CEO,
(24:41):
you are better servedspending 90% with that,
rotten apple
and 10% with the orangesand the grapes and the bananas.
Then you are saying, what,that apples rotten.
I don't want to look at it.I don't want to touch it.
I don't I'mjust going to make all this fruit
(25:02):
shine brighterin the hopes that no one will notice.
And that is the biggest,biggest, biggest, biggest, biggest, flaw
I see in management and managers,
they don't deal with the rotten fruit.
I'm a believer in accountability.
Guess what can take downan entire organization.
(25:25):
That's right. One employee.
You're ignoring the
bottom 20%because you are going to riff them
in the fourth quarter anyway,
because you have some rollingcorporate strategy
where every September, as you startto plan out the following year
or every July or whatever fiscal calendaryou're on,
you rotate out the bottom 20% bull crap.
(25:48):
Nobody does it for real.
Everyone talks about doing it.
Nobody actually gets rid of their bottom.
Nobody actually remixes talent.
Nobody actually does that. Right.
And it's because it's really hard. Yeah.
and expensive.
They are more influenced
by that extra 80%than they are by the people that show up
(26:12):
once a year in some keynotewith some fancy
slides, with animationsto tell them that they're great.
Unless that person is next to themin the quesadilla line, in the cafeteria
every day.
They're not going to be influencedby them.
They're going to be influenced bythe other 80% that they have to work with.
I'm such a big believer in thisbecause there's only one thing
(26:37):
that any top 20% performer cares about.
I'm sorry, I hate to be the bearer of badnews on this, There's only one thing
they care about, and it's green and it's
cold, and it's hard okay.
So take that pot of moneythat you had put aside for the great
(26:57):
senior leadership retreat
in wherever and split it upbetween the 250 people.
It's always 250 people, by the way.
They get invited,
split it up to the 250 peopleand give it to them in their pockets,
and then teach themhow to invest it properly and teach them
how to build generational wealth.
And don't talk to them at allabout, the company that they work for.
(27:19):
And then get the bottom 20%or the other 80%
or the other 50% togetherand spend the retreat money on them.
And take them through exercisesthat help them understand that it's okay
to not be okay, and it's okayto be confused, and it's okay
to feel like, you have to be the smartest,the prettiest, the funniest, whatever.
(27:42):
Yeah,because the change happens bottom up.
It always happens from the bottom up,not from the top down.
A practical wayto deal with the rotten fruit, Okay.
Let's say you oversee a group In 10 peopleI would say you probably have one.
And that's probably it.
in most cases start having one on oneswith that person once a week.
(28:04):
Okay.
Have one on ones with everyone else onceevery other week.
it's going to happen.
The person that you're havingthe one on one with once a week.
The bad apple okay.
They feel seen and heard.
And guess what? That's not going to do.
That's not going to play out as ego.
And bragger behavior
(28:26):
in the team meetings that you're not inbecause you're going
to be working with that personand you're going to be helping them.
they're going to get better in those teammeetings, right?
Yeah. Now someone may say, well, yeah.
But then if you're nine peoplethat, deserve that one on one with you.
And they're the peoplethat are doing a great job
and they don't have the bad attitudeand they don't have the
how are they going to feel?
They're going to feel likeyou are the smartest boss
(28:49):
they have ever had,because you found the bad apple,
and you're working with itonce a week to make it better,
and you think they want to be with youonce a week? Probably not.
They got enough to dobecause they're good performers.
So that's just like a practical example.
And just to take it one step further,
I have two quick anecdotes, Marc,if that’s okay?
I once had someone ask me,how do you identify, like who's
(29:11):
bringing the team down or,
how do you identify that the naysayerin the team or the nonbeliever?
I think it was nonbeliever in the team.
And what did I say? Sit in silence.
That's it. That's it.
Just watch and listen
and you'll know in an hour, if not less.
Know that's anecdote number one.
Anecdote number two is a bit off topic,but there's a rampant, idea
(29:36):
in corporate America right nowaround, offending people.
Right. Frankly, it's always been there.
But I think it's even worse nowbecause the good news is
there's more accountabilityand there's more consequence
of offending an individualor a group of individuals.
Right?
But as a leader, never, ever,
ever, everbe afraid to offend someone, ever.
(29:57):
Because you'll know when you didand you'll never do it again.
Because here's what happenspeople are afraid of offending people
and they're niceand they hide under their desks
and they don't speak up too much.
And those tend to be
the people that end up getting promoted,in some cases, end up running companies.
And then you want to knowwhen they offend people,
(30:18):
when it's too late,
and you want to know whythey offend people
because they now feel like, oh, well,that's like, they have so much power.
They're in charge.They can say whatever they want, right?
Because everyone's telling themwhat they want to hear.
But at that point, the sooner you offendsomeone, the sooner you learn.
The sooner you learn how to be inclusive,the sooner you learn how to be a servant,
(30:39):
which is what every leader needsto be a servant.
In my opinion, it's a zero sum game.
If you hit itearly enough in your career and,
and the reason why I'm reading this nowis because I had
I have someone that that it is a is it my,
my partner in in business,
now, who I worked withfor a very long time,
(31:01):
we were in a in a group chatwith someone yesterday,
and he said he texted mebecause this is the other thing,
we can do a separate podcast on
just like, texting etiquette andand professional environments.
But he saw I texted me.
Oh, I wouldn't say that if I were you.
what you said, like, I, I don't want tooffend him and something like that.
And I wrote back and I said, I do.
I said, because there's only one personright now in this professional environment
(31:25):
that I'm afraid of offending, and that'syou as my trusted business partner.
and by the way, you just offended meby texting that Right.
I'm giving youryour listeners permission to offend.
so that they learn.
Yeah.
It's not like you're purposely tryingto offend people, but we have to learn
how to speak with our own authentic voice,and be who we are.
Because if we don't,we never will until it's too late.
(31:48):
And then all of a sudden, it doesn't work.
It comes out in a waythat we don't intend,
and we have to make space for other peopleto be able to do the same.
And look a lot of people say,follow your gut.
My advice in that regard would beif you feel like it's
going to be offensive,turn it into a question.
And then ask it as a question.
That's the best way of getting around,listening to your gut,
(32:11):
but also getting to an answer.
And I think that also goes backto your thing of ego.
Yeah.
The priority really comes back toI want to know the truth.
I want to know what you really thinkand feel.
I want to know the real situation.
I want to know the real facts.
Then that
that is really the prioritythat comes down and takes away ego,
(32:32):
takes awaythe things, gets us to actually sit
and listen in silencelike you're talking about.
And and that's one of the thingsthat, as we work together
that I've really appreciatedis that when it comes down to it,
Lauren will fight me tooth and nailif she doesn't feel like it's true
to her experience. Right?
But as soon as we come to something,even if it's hard or it feels like
it's like, hard self truth to realize,she'll immediately
(32:54):
snap it upas long as it feels true and genuine.
And I think that's the signof a really strong leadership.
Lauren, thank you so much for coming onand sharing
these ideas and thoughts,for being so candid and vulnerable
and willing to just share these thoughtsand these lessons learned over a career.
Right?
Some of the really hard lessons to learnthat took a lot of work and effort.
(33:17):
So thank you.
Thanks for joining us today.
Thank you, Marc, for having me.
And thank you to everyone for listeningIf anyone wants to ask me any more
questions or get in touch with me,my, Instagram is @byLaurenCrampsie.
and, yeah, you can DM me on Instagram.
Thank you.
And thank you, Mark.
You've been a great coach.
(33:39):
and partner, to meon on my own career journey.
And like and subscribe.
And like and like and subscribe.All right.
We'll see you nexttime. Thank you everybody.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com