August 26, 2024 • 36 mins
Summary
Kerry Grueneich shares her career journey in the telecommunications industry, starting as a sales rep and eventually becoming a VP of Sales Enablement. She emphasizes the importance of active listening, curiosity, and authenticity in sales. Kerry also discusses the challenges of being a woman in a male-dominated field and the need to break free from self-imposed pressure to overachieve. She believes in empowering others, building genuine connections, and creating a supportive company culture.
Takeaways
- Active listening and curiosity are key skills in sales.
- Authenticity and empathy are important in leadership.
- Challenges exist for women in male-dominated fields, but progress is being made.
- Surrounding yourself with supportive people can contribute to success.
- Building genuine connections and empowering others create a positive company culture.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to the Make
Work Work Better Podcast,where we delve deep into the minds
and experiences of some of the mostinspiring leaders in business today.
We are your hosts, Mikayla Wallace and Dr.
Marc Reynolds.
We are thrilled to introduce youto our special guest, Kerry Grueneich.
Kerry,thank you so much for joining us today.
(00:28):
Absolutely thrilled to be here.
Kerry, can you tell us a little bitabout your career journey?
Sure, absolutely.
So, I've been in the telecommunicationsspace for a little over 20 years now.
I’m in Charlotte, NorthCarolina, by the way.
So when I graduated college,I was at, UNC Charlotte
and, took a myriad of jobs after schooljust to get my feet wet
(00:51):
in professional environmentscoming out of school.
And, honestly, was psychologymajor and criminal justice
major and went on some interviewsin that space
and pretty quickly found outI didn't think that was the right fit
for me.
based on some of the interviewsthat I went to, like minimum security,
(01:11):
juvenile detention centersand those types of things and, at the ripe
age of 20, figured that,this isn't really for me.
So, I wound up eventually working in sales
as a direct salesrep for a telecommunications company.
And this was back in the,like, early to mid 90s.
(01:32):
And at the time,telecommunications was blasting off.
So, prior to that,there was a quasi monopoly
with, AT&T and the Bell companies.
And so they had broken that upand allowed competition into the space.
And so when I joined the industry,there were a lot of what we call
(01:54):
CLECs competitive local exchange carriers.
So, kind of everybody and there,brother decided to become a CLEC.
And so there were a lot of companies,and I joined the sales
team and carried a bag for a while.
And, was in a very,very competitive time in our industry.
So I learned a lot, with that experienceand, just stuck with it.
(02:18):
Did the direct sales thing
for quite a while, and then, transitionedto a company and sold phone systems.
So as a smaller company herein Charlotte, and, we carry around,
a demo kit that was probably weighedabout, at least 60 pounds,
all around the city.
Carrying this demo kit.
And was actually, as the sales rep,
(02:39):
the one that would go in and set it upand try to sell this phone system.
I felt likeI was just like selling my wares.
But it was a great learning experiencebecause what it taught
me was to talk about technology,in front of customers
that weren't necessarily technical,and neither was I at the time.
Though it was very interesting
(03:00):
toting that thing around 60 poundsup and down stairs in downtown Charlotte.
I learned a lotabout how to do demonstrations
and how to, sell a technical solutionto, non-technical people.
And so that led into a skill set
that is, a path to sales engineering.
And so salesengineering is where I ended up
(03:23):
as an SE for, another telecommunications
company supporting multiple markets.
And that was the time in my life I justfell in love, with being a sales engineer.
And I always talk about sales engineering.
some people noticed solutionsengineering or pre-sales,
but it's the bestkept secret in the industry.
(03:44):
I'm very passionate about, being in SEand now leading sales engineering,
and it's a way for peoplethat like to be in sales
and be in front of customers and design
solutionsand get to do all the fun part of sales
without the prospect being thatI have to close the deal, right.
(04:08):
That's why I call it the best kept secret,because you get to do all the amazing
things, the presentation and the designsand, helping customers solve problems
and creating solutionsto problems and business impact.
but you don't have to dothe really, really difficult part
of direct sales, which is prospectingand finding new business.
So, Sales Engineering is where it's at anda lot of it is about doing those demos.
(04:29):
So those early days as a sales rep,
lugging that thing up and downthose stairs really taught me, the skill
set necessary to kind of transitioninto being an SE, right.
And I just fell in love with it.It's a great occupation.
And I have since kindof become an evangelist
for the positionand really having, encouraged
(04:51):
people, where I seethat they have their skill sets.
I'm exposed to a lot of differentsalespeople and a lot of different
customer engagements.
And, some peoplejust have the knack for it.
And so that, led into me,moving into, Sales Engineering management.
And I managed a team of NorthCarolina sales
engineers, for my previous company.
(05:13):
And then the opportunity camefor me to lead all of sales engineering.
traditionally I was alwaysin that enterprise space selling B2B,
and with the, promotioninto the director position, I was
then able to lead the SE organizationfor all of our business segment.
So across the enterprise, our carrierand our government, space as well.
(05:35):
So that allowed me to gain
exposure and, grow and developand learning those other segments
of the business and then leading,leading a team of fantastic SE managers.
And then eventuallyI kind of spread my wings
a little bit and saw that, salesengineering
(05:57):
is such a critical componentto the success of a sales organization.
There's other areasthat would be considered support
under a sales org, and customersuccess is one of those areas.
And so I saw an opportunity to take
what was traditionally called salessupport and evolve that team
(06:21):
into more of a customer success approach,
meaning a more proactive approach
educating customers, gaining product
adoption after we implement our productsand services.
And so, they put the the customersuccess team under my umbrella,
and then eventually we built out
a training department and voila,I'm now leading enablement.
(06:44):
it just was an organic growth.
And to what we are nowcalling sales enablement.
And so I just recently transitionedto another company
and, I'm the VP of sales enablementfor Cantera.
telecommunications companybased here in Charlotte, North Carolina.
And I'm just loving it.
So I met our executive leadershipteam here and, talked
(07:06):
about the vision of sales enablementand what it meant to me
and how it can really be instrumentalin driving
revenue targets and getting the companythe growth that they're, setting forth.
And so it was a fantastic opportunity
for me to come here and developthe program,
lead the sales, engineering teams, developcustomer success team,
(07:29):
and now building out their onboardingand recruitment practices, as
well as their their training and ongoingtraining for the existing sales work.
So super excited to be here.
And it was a really fantastic opportunityfor me
to build it from the ground up.
So yeah. Oh good. Yeah.
Well that's exciting.
That sounds like
(07:49):
quite the journey to have gone onwhere you really started in the trenches
and climbed your way up to, train and workwith a lot of other people and run
a program. That's amazing.
one of the things that I was hearingyou say is you really learned
how to talk to non-technical people
and get them to care about your product,to get them to want your product?
I think that appliesto a lot of different sales positions,
(08:11):
where you're trying to get someoneto care about something that is important.
It's a good product,and they could use it,
but they don't necessarily careIf you're willing
to share some of your tips and tricks,what have you learned?
The big thing that I have learnedis it honestly,
it doesn't necessarily matterabout all of the features
(08:33):
and functionality and widgets and gadgetsand all of the other things.
What really, really mattersis that you're solving a problem.
You're solving a gap.
That's what I'm teaching.
as I'm building up this enablementprogram, is we're teaching our salespeople
the art of active listening and how to,get people to talk about themselves.
(08:58):
And it's a very difficult thing to dobecause you might be listening,
but I think our human naturesometimes is to listen
only for your opportunity to respond
or you already have in your mindwhat you're trying to get out of it.
And so your listening skillskind of shut down a little bit.
(09:18):
It's really difficultto master the art of active listening
and asking the right questionsto allow you to active listen.
I think that is really the key to itall is,
if you approach with curiosity
and you are authentic
and being curiousabout the people that you're meeting with
(09:40):
and the peoplethat you're having a conversation with,
and you really want to understandwhat's happening in their world,
what's happening in their business,what are things are trying to solve for.
And you truly listen.
Then you can, make the determination
as to whether you can truly benefit them.
(10:00):
And I think people appreciate that.
If that authenticity,people appreciate it.
and sometimesthere might not be a great fit.
And that's okay
and If you can build a network of people,then,
now you understand, you truly understandwhat's going on,
and maybe you can refer them to somebodythat can help them solve a problem.
It goes back to that authenticity.
(10:21):
And really being curiousand listening to to what people say.
And it's a difficult thing to trainand it's a difficult thing to train on.
But I have found that,approach has worked really well for me
because it helps me understandwhere they're coming from.
So then when I do, want to positionsomething
that I feel like can actually solvethat need I can circle that conversation
(10:46):
back to our previous conversationsand say, this is what I heard you say.
This is how I think it'sgoing to solve it.
versusthe typical approach is just to kind of
come in with, this is what we offer,this is the price.
I really view it as an art.
and active listening is a big piece of it.
And, and and approaching your engagementand your conversations
(11:08):
with curiosity is a big piece of it, too.
So I imagine
with sales, It'sgot to be a really diverse field of people
to try to train and, help createa consistent, product as a salesperson.
Your product is how to train them. Right?
So if you had to saywhat are the some of the, key things
that you found to be consistent
(11:30):
needs among this diverse group?
Yeah.
I'll give you an example.
So we're, we're practicing via role play.
And like anyyou all are opera singers, right?
So you don't just one daybecome an opera singer.
And maybe you do havesome inherent talent,
(11:50):
but if you don't practice and cultivate
and continue to practice and enhance,
you will never reach mastery.
And so it'sjust like playing an instrument
or being an opera singeror being, in sports,
you don't get to the NFL and,and not practice.
(12:11):
That's what I'm trying to, accomplishhere is that,
we want to get to a level of mastery,but you can't get to a level of mastery
without practice.
And so we are going througha whole journey
with our sales organizationwhere we're doing role play.
And it's really for just that.
It's practicing and practicingin the safe environment with your peers
(12:34):
and then giving feedback to each otherso that we're learning together.
And the beautiful thing about that is,if you do it in that group setting,
I'm findingthat they're learning from each other,
and now they're starting to incorporatewhat they really liked.
Their colleague did.
(12:55):
and they're
incorporating thatinto the way that they approach it.
And so we're all learning from each otherand I think over time
it'll take timeas we continue to practice and evolve.
But that's how you can create consistency
across a wide footprint at my company.
So we've got offices all over the country.
(13:15):
And so in different teamswith different cultures
and a different, team dynamic.
But if we do these things as a group,then you can start to learn
from each other and createa consistent approach across the board.
same with sales engineering,a big part of sales
engineering is being ableto demonstrate our products and services.
(13:36):
We have lots of portals and going throughsome of that technical scope
with the non-technical client.
And but being able to do that
while you're weaving in a story
as well as circling it back to businessimpact, to what really matters to that
client that's sitting across the tablefrom you is, again, it's an art.
(13:59):
It is a it is an art form to do that
with confidence, with authenticity,
and doing it in a mannerthat you're feeding off
of your audience and their reactionto what you're putting out there.
I relate it to a performance.
Yeah, it really is a performance.
And it's it's your it'syour time to shine.
(14:20):
And so if you don't practice that
when you're in the moment,you can very easily get tripped up.
Or if something goes wrong,which inevitably
sometimes things go wrong,it won't power up.
Or for whatever reason,the internet's not working
or I'm a sales repand my camera shuts off.
Whatever it might be,if you've practiced and you're reaching
(14:43):
that mastery level,you can so easily pivot
and be able to
pivot in that situationwithout skipping a beat.
Right.
Just likeyou would playing a football game.
If you've practicedin practice and practice,
then when the play is goingthe way you thought the play was going to
go, you can very quickly pivotand not let it defeat you.
(15:06):
It's all about that practicing.
And I finding that doing that
in that groupenvironment has really been beneficial.
Oh that's awesome. Awesome.
Yeah I'm something that I've always lookedby as practice makes progress.
Unfortunately not perfection. Right.
As much as sometimes we wishthat was possible.
That practice is so important.
Communication in any way,whether it's telecommunications,
(15:30):
whether it's communicating with peoplevia talking, sales, opera performance -
it requires practice and active listening.
I love that you brought upactive listening and authenticity,
and that's somethingwe talk a lot about here and is a big
belief of ours is being authenticand true to yourself and true.
(15:50):
What you believe allows youto become who you can be.
So I love all those pointsthat you brought up there.
We've done a lot of roleplay over the years I know from experience
and trying to train peoplethrough role play
that some are really resistant,but they're like, this feels so fake.
Why are we doing this?
Plus trying to get the balance of salesor having an objective in a conversation
(16:14):
of some sort with authenticity
is a really tricky, difficult balance.
It certainly is.
So are there any particular thingsthat you've learned
in working with these teams,or training people that you felt
help them get past those barriersof how to role play?
I know, like if I'm doing executivecoaching or whatever, I'll talk with
(16:36):
even executives will be like,
intellectually,I know that this is has value,
but oh, I really don't want to dothis is feels uncomfortable
and awkward and strange and fakeSo what have you learned?
What are some of the thingsthat you've learned
that have overcomesome of those barriers there?
yes, I've,I've learned a lot of things actually.
It's that resist to it of like
(17:00):
the eye rollas soon as you say role play sometimes.
Right. The eyeroll. Yep.
Oh, I have to.
Here we go. Yeah, yeah.
So I, I when we were watching this here,
I had to do a lot of convincingthat this was this was the right approach
to do it.
If you tee it up, as think of this
(17:23):
as your opportunity
to learn from each other, if nothing else,
And we're not in this to,
embarrass each otheror make it difficult or hard or because,
I think in the past, peoplehave probably experienced that, too.
(17:43):
where people have tried to trip you upand make it intentionally difficult
or awkward.
I was very mindful of thatbecause I've been on the receiving end of
that type of role play where it was likeintentionally trying to make you fail.
And I'm not a believer in that,
I'm a believer in like, let's try tojust try to make this as real as possible.
(18:03):
I found that we put some time into preparing ahead
and making surethat we were using real examples,
like real life examples of prospectsthat they were actually chasing.
So if you're going to practice,
you might as well practice on a real dealthat you're trying to land right?
Why not?
Let's use real, real life experiences.
We have a sponsor that sits in onall of the sessions to, provide feedback,
(18:28):
provide a way for othersthat are providing feedback
and critique to have an exampleof how to do it in a way
that isn't, coming acrossas making it a negative experience, right?
How to provide that kind of, critique
without it being, belittling peoplein front of other people.
That is not the point, right?The point is learning.
(18:50):
And, I have found thatthat worked really well
by giving them the tools necessary to
to know what we were trying to accomplish,setting forth the objective,
having a very well thought out planas far as it, related
to the use cases that we wanted to use.
I even provided details on how to provideconstructive criticism
(19:12):
to the folks that were going to be,providing the feedback.
Thus far it's going really well.
What I have noticed that I just loveis that
there are some peoplethat just deserve an Academy Award.
It's a it's like you can like people
just come out, somesome people are really good at it.
And the ones that I find are fantasticare the one that are
(19:33):
there are actuallyrole playing. The customer
and you learn so much.
That actually tells you in my mind almosthow much they've mastered their art.
Because if you're really convincingat playing the customer,
then, like, I can tell that peoplethat have been doing this for a long time
because they're able to portray thatand it's such a realistic way,
(19:57):
which makes for a very dynamic role play.
There was resistance for surein the beginning.
but the feedback that I've been getting,I think is having that preparation
in advanceand giving everybody tools to do it
in a way that didn't feel haphazardhas gone a long way.
that makes sense.
I have a couple cousinsthat actually work in sales,
(20:19):
and they talk a lot about what tipsand tricks they learn from other people.
Like you were saying,have you ever run into issues, though,
of someone trying to go so far that it's
almost reinventing the wheel.
A little bit?
We havewe have the right to do your time out.
Like I would do it.
(20:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I've had some instanceswhere where it like, definitely
gone down through rabbit holes and,We reserve the time out.
when we're doing it and,and that's for everyone.
You can find yourself rambling and.
Yeah, just going down this crazy path.
Yeah, But that's the whole point.
The whole point of itis that it allows you
(21:01):
the opportunity to do thatand have self-awareness about it.
I think the self-awareness isis a big piece of it.
Clearly, it sounds like in these roleplaying sessions you're providing
some structure, providing guidance,providing feedback, as an expert, there.
What would you say to someonewho's struggling to be authentic in sales.
(21:23):
Yeah.
I mean, it goes back to being curious
because other people
immediately know when you're not.
Yeah.
And so
if you really aren't curiousand you're not approaching
your conversations or your appointmentsor your networking event
(21:48):
with that true sense of curiosity,
people pick up on that.
If you don't have that,
then maybe,maybe it's not the right position.
and that's okay too.
It, You hear people a lottalk about approaching with curiosity, but
(22:08):
you can even tellwhen people are faking that, too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
Can, You do want them to practicethat skill set.
We talk about building rapportand all of those things.
Right.
Building rapport is a big part of sales.
But when you're faking it. Yeah.
Are you just, looked on a LinkedIn profileand and just put something out there.
(22:31):
You're not coming across as authentic.
Yeah. Right.
And so it's just,some of it is just a natural ability to
engage in conversationand have a true sense of wanting
to understandother people and learn about other people.
Some of it is not being afraidto be yourself as well.
(22:53):
Yeah.
not being afraidto share something about yourself
that would maybe spark up a conversationthat would put everybody at ease
because you have to remember
that people that you're meeting withare also in that same situation.
Yeah.
Especially if you're meeting with them
for the first timeand maybe they're very busy.
so, I think it's a reliefsometimes to the people
(23:15):
that you're meeting with,if you can just be authentic and,
maybe share a little bit about yourselfor maybe something funny
that happened to you on the wayor whatever it might be, maybe inject
some humor in there just to let everybodytake a breather, relax a little bit.
and let them know that it's not seriousall the time, right?
Right right.
Right. Right. Right, right. Yeah.
(23:37):
So if it's okay with you,I'd love to pivot in a new direction.
Yeah. If that's okay. So
a littlebit of context is actually last summer
I went up to do a two day workshopwith a company in Canada,
and I always do personal interviewsbefore I go to get to know
whether the pain points are,what's going on, what the issues are,
(23:59):
so that whatever we're training onis relevant.
Right? Yeah.
Well, one of the thingsthat became really obvious,
that needed to bediscussed was being a man
or a woman in the workplaceand the challenges that come up there.
so we did this workshop,
and I did a session where it'sjust being a guy in the workplace.
(24:21):
the struggles there,but also how to create
a safe place and workeffectively and well with women.
And then
the scariest thing I've ever done,being in a room full of of women
who are executive level women,where we talked about the struggles
of being a woman in the workplace. Right.
And I was like,
I have no business talking about this, butI'm going to facilitate this discussion.
(24:42):
Here we go. Yeah.
If you had to say what you've learnedthroughout this career,
and You're telling us previouslythat you're in a male dominated field,
not just the field,but also the position that you have
would be traditionally filled by a man.
And here you are.
(25:03):
What have you learned?
What are your superpowersthat you've learned?
Not only am I just by competing,
I have my own unique thingsthat give me an edge here.
Yeah.
it's funnybecause I never really thought about it
in that light
(25:24):
earlier in my career,
earlier in my career and, in sales that,
not necessarily male dominated,but as I moved into technical sales,
specifically in our industry,telecommunications,
and then moved into the salesengineering, field,
I was kind of an anomaly.
I think at one point in time,one of my leaders called me an enigma.
(25:47):
I wasn't quite sure how to take that.
Is that good or bad, I don't know.
I guess is that good thingis that a bad thing?
Comments like that are the things that
you find as you, especially asyou start to move up in your career
and now you're, you're leading,you're, you're leading mostly
(26:11):
men. I think a lot of times there's.
Maybe some unintentional,
preconceived notions of,what a female leader will be.
And to be honest,I think that some of the folks
that I ended upleading, were probably concerned
(26:33):
to be led by a woman.
because I think that we,maybe historically have had this
for whateverreason, label that, in order to move up
or to be a leader,especially in technology, as a woman,
you have to be overly dominant, overly,pushing and driving.
(26:55):
And honestly, I've never really done that.
I have found that
through the years, a lot of it
to me, especiallybecause it's in the technical space,
some of it's about your technical chops.
Be honest.
And when people see that you, know what
(27:17):
your talking about,then that's kind of disappears.
If you lead people with empathy,
if you lead people with wantingto understand where they're coming from
and show them how you're thereto support their career growth
and their path, I think that all of thosepreconceived notions
(27:41):
and stereotypes can just melt away,and I'm a big believer in that.
I mean, again,it comes back to that authenticity.
But, I will saythere have been challenges.
Reflecting back,a lot of it was self-imposed.
And I think women put, a tremendousamount of pressure on themselves.
(28:01):
we feel that we have
to overachieve in order to get recognized.
There have definitely been timeswhere I have felt that,
and I have feltthat I had to put in the extra hours.
I had to, go above and beyond 24/7.
And it's difficult.
(28:22):
I still have that to a degree.
It's hardto break that cycle of over achievement
in order to advance in your careerand get, recognized.
But, I think that we're evolving.
Yeah.
That's my general sense
is that we are truly evolvingand, the imposter syndrome thing.
Yes, it's real, but I can feel that it'sstarting to dissipate a little bit.
(28:47):
as more and more women are being elevated
into leadership positions and,
I think getting rid of those stereo typesis I'm starting to see it.
but, yes.
Does it still exist? Of course.
Does the, that need, that self-imposedneed to feel like you have to, just go
(29:07):
above and be overachieving and working1,000,000 hours.
Yeah. That still exists.
but as a leader,I have awareness of that.
And so when I see that happening
to the people in my organization,
I call it out.
(29:30):
I call it out,
very much about empowering other people.
And, having people view themselvesas, leaders in their own space,
running their own business,coming up with solutions,
bringing those ideas to the table,helping them in their career growth,
(29:50):
but also noticing that they have
a life outside of work.
and they have, familysometimes or things going on in their life
that sometimes might, take away from,from what you have to do and that's okay.
You don't have to be perfect.
when you're talking about practice makeswhat what did you say
(30:12):
practice makes progress. Yeah.
Yeah. Not practice makes perfection.
And I think, I'm guilty of,sometimes feeling I have to be perfect or,
if I made a mistake at work,I was like, oh,
I'm not going to get the promotionthat I've been trying to seek.
I have to be perfect 24/7..
And that's just not real.
And so, moving into a leadership position,
(30:34):
it's remembering thatand remembering how that feels.
And when you recognize it,call it out and have a discussion
and talk about like it's okayto have a life and it's okay to trip up.
And there's things that go on
in our personal lives that sometimestake away from our work lives.
but as long as your intentionsare to do the right thing
(30:55):
and to, run your business and, have growth
and be willing to approach with curiosity
and learn, then then I'm a big supporter.
I think it's not forgettingwhat it feels like to be in that boat.
Okay.
So the patterns that I'm hearingyou say here that are kind of sound
(31:16):
like hallmarks of your style of leadershipwould be authenticity,
connection, curiosity.
These are wordsthat are coming up frequently, right?
Yeah.
In my experience of talkingwith different people across the globe
is those things are only becomingmore relevant with each passing year
as people are feeling more disconnectedand more hungry for connection,
(31:41):
as they are feeling morelike they're being put in this little box
in education where there's
they're just learninghow to fill in a bubble
rather than actuallyto be curious and learn about life.
and that
by valuing those things that has given you
a power in leadership
that has empowered you to transformthese teams of people, to teach them
(32:03):
how to do sales, which is traditionallyseen as when you think of a salesperson
as super fake and like forcedand and like, please don't.
but you're also empowering themto make genuine connections
with whoever they're working with.
and I can see that as a worldchanging thing.
Right?
As these people go out, it's not justabout the sale, it's about connection.
(32:25):
And I think thatthat would be the superpower.
Right?
It is a superpower.
And, and I feel like it's contagious.
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah.
So it's a lot of itis how you treat other people.
And, just being genuine and recognizingthat people can make mistakes
and it's not detrimental to your career.
(32:45):
nobody is perfect.
And, I think if you if you genuine
also want to see other peoplesucceed and really mean it
and approach your day to day
like thatand your interactions, interdepartmental,
even people that aren'twithin your specific department,
then it's contagious for other people.
(33:07):
And I think that's how you build really,really good company culture.
Yeah.
Is having that willingness to be open,
to empower others, to listen to othersideas,
and values, understandingthat people have different values.
People are coming from all different walksof life and, being empathetic to that.
(33:29):
but also moving the needle,getting the job done,
and being productive and,being successful as a team.
Yeah.I think you can do all of those things.
Yeah.
I think you can still be competitive
and have a get after it spirit
and be successful in an organization.
(33:50):
Achieve your goals in an organization.
But you can do it in a way that's genuine,
that's empowering others,
that's, coming from a place whereyou really want to succeed as a team.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So as we're
wrappingup here towards the end of our time,
(34:11):
I want to give you the opportunityto share any lasting star on your mind.
It might look like somethingalong the lines of,
if you could put one thing into your self20 years ago into your mind and say,
no, intrinsically know this nowso you don't have to spend 20 years
learning this or it could be anything elsethat comes to your mind.
(34:31):
What would you want people to know?
Yeah, if if I could step back
into my 20 year old self,
I would tell my 20 year old self that
you can do it.
you have the ability.
Be confident,
be curious.
(34:53):
Don't be afraid to talk about yourself.
Don't be afraid
to talk about your own accomplishments.
and really create a network of people.
one of the big thingsthat I have been very fortunate is,
I've had people in my lifethat have really, really supported me
(35:14):
and really wanted to see me be successful
and surrounding yourself with other people
that want to see you achieve your goals,or maybe even people
that see something in youthat you don't see in yourself.
it's really, really powerful.
And so, take advantage of the opportunityto seek out relationships like that
(35:36):
where people have your back
and people would really wantto see you succeed in your path.
It has been a really powerful thingfor me.
I've had a lot of great peoplethat weren't just mentors.
They saw something in meand wanted to see me succeed.
And so when you see thatin other people, pay it forward.
I love it.
Yeah, I love it.
thank you so much for joining us todayand for sharing these lessons
(36:01):
and for being so genuine, authentic,and for being willing to share
these really valuable lessons,excited to explore
these further in mini-workshopsthat we do after of practical Application,
how do we take some of these big conceptsand put it into something for the day?
It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Welcome to the Make
Work Work Better Podcast,where we delve deep into the minds
and experiences of some of the mostinspiring leaders in business today.
We are your hosts, Mikayla Wallace and Dr.
Marc Reynolds.
We are thrilled to introduce youto our special guest, Kerry Grueneich.
Kerry,thank you so much for joining us today.
(00:28):
Absolutely thrilled to be here.
Kerry, can you tell us a little bitabout your career journey?
Sure, absolutely.
So, I've been in the telecommunicationsspace for a little over 20 years now.
I’m in Charlotte, NorthCarolina, by the way.
So when I graduated college,I was at, UNC Charlotte
and, took a myriad of jobs after schooljust to get my feet wet
(00:51):
in professional environmentscoming out of school.
And, honestly, was psychologymajor and criminal justice
major and went on some interviewsin that space
and pretty quickly found outI didn't think that was the right fit
for me.
based on some of the interviewsthat I went to, like minimum security,
(01:11):
juvenile detention centersand those types of things and, at the ripe
age of 20, figured that,this isn't really for me.
So, I wound up eventually working in sales
as a direct salesrep for a telecommunications company.
And this was back in the,like, early to mid 90s.
(01:32):
And at the time,telecommunications was blasting off.
So, prior to that,there was a quasi monopoly
with, AT&T and the Bell companies.
And so they had broken that upand allowed competition into the space.
And so when I joined the industry,there were a lot of what we call
(01:54):
CLECs competitive local exchange carriers.
So, kind of everybody and there,brother decided to become a CLEC.
And so there were a lot of companies,and I joined the sales
team and carried a bag for a while.
And, was in a very,very competitive time in our industry.
So I learned a lot, with that experienceand, just stuck with it.
(02:18):
Did the direct sales thing
for quite a while, and then, transitionedto a company and sold phone systems.
So as a smaller company herein Charlotte, and, we carry around,
a demo kit that was probably weighedabout, at least 60 pounds,
all around the city.
Carrying this demo kit.
And was actually, as the sales rep,
(02:39):
the one that would go in and set it upand try to sell this phone system.
I felt likeI was just like selling my wares.
But it was a great learning experiencebecause what it taught
me was to talk about technology,in front of customers
that weren't necessarily technical,and neither was I at the time.
Though it was very interesting
(03:00):
toting that thing around 60 poundsup and down stairs in downtown Charlotte.
I learned a lotabout how to do demonstrations
and how to, sell a technical solutionto, non-technical people.
And so that led into a skill set
that is, a path to sales engineering.
And so salesengineering is where I ended up
(03:23):
as an SE for, another telecommunications
company supporting multiple markets.
And that was the time in my life I justfell in love, with being a sales engineer.
And I always talk about sales engineering.
some people noticed solutionsengineering or pre-sales,
but it's the bestkept secret in the industry.
(03:44):
I'm very passionate about, being in SEand now leading sales engineering,
and it's a way for peoplethat like to be in sales
and be in front of customers and design
solutionsand get to do all the fun part of sales
without the prospect being thatI have to close the deal, right.
(04:08):
That's why I call it the best kept secret,because you get to do all the amazing
things, the presentation and the designsand, helping customers solve problems
and creating solutionsto problems and business impact.
but you don't have to dothe really, really difficult part
of direct sales, which is prospectingand finding new business.
So, Sales Engineering is where it's at anda lot of it is about doing those demos.
(04:29):
So those early days as a sales rep,
lugging that thing up and downthose stairs really taught me, the skill
set necessary to kind of transitioninto being an SE, right.
And I just fell in love with it.It's a great occupation.
And I have since kindof become an evangelist
for the positionand really having, encouraged
(04:51):
people, where I seethat they have their skill sets.
I'm exposed to a lot of differentsalespeople and a lot of different
customer engagements.
And, some peoplejust have the knack for it.
And so that, led into me,moving into, Sales Engineering management.
And I managed a team of NorthCarolina sales
engineers, for my previous company.
(05:13):
And then the opportunity camefor me to lead all of sales engineering.
traditionally I was alwaysin that enterprise space selling B2B,
and with the, promotioninto the director position, I was
then able to lead the SE organizationfor all of our business segment.
So across the enterprise, our carrierand our government, space as well.
(05:35):
So that allowed me to gain
exposure and, grow and developand learning those other segments
of the business and then leading,leading a team of fantastic SE managers.
And then eventuallyI kind of spread my wings
a little bit and saw that, salesengineering
(05:57):
is such a critical componentto the success of a sales organization.
There's other areasthat would be considered support
under a sales org, and customersuccess is one of those areas.
And so I saw an opportunity to take
what was traditionally called salessupport and evolve that team
(06:21):
into more of a customer success approach,
meaning a more proactive approach
educating customers, gaining product
adoption after we implement our productsand services.
And so, they put the the customersuccess team under my umbrella,
and then eventually we built out
a training department and voila,I'm now leading enablement.
(06:44):
it just was an organic growth.
And to what we are nowcalling sales enablement.
And so I just recently transitionedto another company
and, I'm the VP of sales enablementfor Cantera.
telecommunications companybased here in Charlotte, North Carolina.
And I'm just loving it.
So I met our executive leadershipteam here and, talked
(07:06):
about the vision of sales enablementand what it meant to me
and how it can really be instrumentalin driving
revenue targets and getting the companythe growth that they're, setting forth.
And so it was a fantastic opportunity
for me to come here and developthe program,
lead the sales, engineering teams, developcustomer success team,
(07:29):
and now building out their onboardingand recruitment practices, as
well as their their training and ongoingtraining for the existing sales work.
So super excited to be here.
And it was a really fantastic opportunityfor me
to build it from the ground up.
So yeah. Oh good. Yeah.
Well that's exciting.
That sounds like
(07:49):
quite the journey to have gone onwhere you really started in the trenches
and climbed your way up to, train and workwith a lot of other people and run
a program. That's amazing.
one of the things that I was hearingyou say is you really learned
how to talk to non-technical people
and get them to care about your product,to get them to want your product?
I think that appliesto a lot of different sales positions,
(08:11):
where you're trying to get someoneto care about something that is important.
It's a good product,and they could use it,
but they don't necessarily careIf you're willing
to share some of your tips and tricks,what have you learned?
The big thing that I have learnedis it honestly,
it doesn't necessarily matterabout all of the features
(08:33):
and functionality and widgets and gadgetsand all of the other things.
What really, really mattersis that you're solving a problem.
You're solving a gap.
That's what I'm teaching.
as I'm building up this enablementprogram, is we're teaching our salespeople
the art of active listening and how to,get people to talk about themselves.
(08:58):
And it's a very difficult thing to dobecause you might be listening,
but I think our human naturesometimes is to listen
only for your opportunity to respond
or you already have in your mindwhat you're trying to get out of it.
And so your listening skillskind of shut down a little bit.
(09:18):
It's really difficultto master the art of active listening
and asking the right questionsto allow you to active listen.
I think that is really the key to itall is,
if you approach with curiosity
and you are authentic
and being curiousabout the people that you're meeting with
(09:40):
and the peoplethat you're having a conversation with,
and you really want to understandwhat's happening in their world,
what's happening in their business,what are things are trying to solve for.
And you truly listen.
Then you can, make the determination
as to whether you can truly benefit them.
(10:00):
And I think people appreciate that.
If that authenticity,people appreciate it.
and sometimesthere might not be a great fit.
And that's okay
and If you can build a network of people,then,
now you understand, you truly understandwhat's going on,
and maybe you can refer them to somebodythat can help them solve a problem.
It goes back to that authenticity.
(10:21):
And really being curiousand listening to to what people say.
And it's a difficult thing to trainand it's a difficult thing to train on.
But I have found that,approach has worked really well for me
because it helps me understandwhere they're coming from.
So then when I do, want to positionsomething
that I feel like can actually solvethat need I can circle that conversation
(10:46):
back to our previous conversationsand say, this is what I heard you say.
This is how I think it'sgoing to solve it.
versusthe typical approach is just to kind of
come in with, this is what we offer,this is the price.
I really view it as an art.
and active listening is a big piece of it.
And, and and approaching your engagementand your conversations
(11:08):
with curiosity is a big piece of it, too.
So I imagine
with sales, It'sgot to be a really diverse field of people
to try to train and, help createa consistent, product as a salesperson.
Your product is how to train them. Right?
So if you had to saywhat are the some of the, key things
that you found to be consistent
(11:30):
needs among this diverse group?
Yeah.
I'll give you an example.
So we're, we're practicing via role play.
And like anyyou all are opera singers, right?
So you don't just one daybecome an opera singer.
And maybe you do havesome inherent talent,
(11:50):
but if you don't practice and cultivate
and continue to practice and enhance,
you will never reach mastery.
And so it'sjust like playing an instrument
or being an opera singeror being, in sports,
you don't get to the NFL and,and not practice.
(12:11):
That's what I'm trying to, accomplishhere is that,
we want to get to a level of mastery,but you can't get to a level of mastery
without practice.
And so we are going througha whole journey
with our sales organizationwhere we're doing role play.
And it's really for just that.
It's practicing and practicingin the safe environment with your peers
(12:34):
and then giving feedback to each otherso that we're learning together.
And the beautiful thing about that is,if you do it in that group setting,
I'm findingthat they're learning from each other,
and now they're starting to incorporatewhat they really liked.
Their colleague did.
(12:55):
and they're
incorporating thatinto the way that they approach it.
And so we're all learning from each otherand I think over time
it'll take timeas we continue to practice and evolve.
But that's how you can create consistency
across a wide footprint at my company.
So we've got offices all over the country.
(13:15):
And so in different teamswith different cultures
and a different, team dynamic.
But if we do these things as a group,then you can start to learn
from each other and createa consistent approach across the board.
same with sales engineering,a big part of sales
engineering is being ableto demonstrate our products and services.
(13:36):
We have lots of portals and going throughsome of that technical scope
with the non-technical client.
And but being able to do that
while you're weaving in a story
as well as circling it back to businessimpact, to what really matters to that
client that's sitting across the tablefrom you is, again, it's an art.
(13:59):
It is a it is an art form to do that
with confidence, with authenticity,
and doing it in a mannerthat you're feeding off
of your audience and their reactionto what you're putting out there.
I relate it to a performance.
Yeah, it really is a performance.
And it's it's your it'syour time to shine.
(14:20):
And so if you don't practice that
when you're in the moment,you can very easily get tripped up.
Or if something goes wrong,which inevitably
sometimes things go wrong,it won't power up.
Or for whatever reason,the internet's not working
or I'm a sales repand my camera shuts off.
Whatever it might be,if you've practiced and you're reaching
(14:43):
that mastery level,you can so easily pivot
and be able to
pivot in that situationwithout skipping a beat.
Right.
Just likeyou would playing a football game.
If you've practicedin practice and practice,
then when the play is goingthe way you thought the play was going to
go, you can very quickly pivotand not let it defeat you.
(15:06):
It's all about that practicing.
And I finding that doing that
in that groupenvironment has really been beneficial.
Oh that's awesome. Awesome.
Yeah I'm something that I've always lookedby as practice makes progress.
Unfortunately not perfection. Right.
As much as sometimes we wishthat was possible.
That practice is so important.
Communication in any way,whether it's telecommunications,
(15:30):
whether it's communicating with peoplevia talking, sales, opera performance -
it requires practice and active listening.
I love that you brought upactive listening and authenticity,
and that's somethingwe talk a lot about here and is a big
belief of ours is being authenticand true to yourself and true.
(15:50):
What you believe allows youto become who you can be.
So I love all those pointsthat you brought up there.
We've done a lot of roleplay over the years I know from experience
and trying to train peoplethrough role play
that some are really resistant,but they're like, this feels so fake.
Why are we doing this?
Plus trying to get the balance of salesor having an objective in a conversation
(16:14):
of some sort with authenticity
is a really tricky, difficult balance.
It certainly is.
So are there any particular thingsthat you've learned
in working with these teams,or training people that you felt
help them get past those barriersof how to role play?
I know, like if I'm doing executivecoaching or whatever, I'll talk with
(16:36):
even executives will be like,
intellectually,I know that this is has value,
but oh, I really don't want to dothis is feels uncomfortable
and awkward and strange and fakeSo what have you learned?
What are some of the thingsthat you've learned
that have overcomesome of those barriers there?
yes, I've,I've learned a lot of things actually.
It's that resist to it of like
(17:00):
the eye rollas soon as you say role play sometimes.
Right. The eyeroll. Yep.
Oh, I have to.
Here we go. Yeah, yeah.
So I, I when we were watching this here,
I had to do a lot of convincingthat this was this was the right approach
to do it.
If you tee it up, as think of this
(17:23):
as your opportunity
to learn from each other, if nothing else,
And we're not in this to,
embarrass each otheror make it difficult or hard or because,
I think in the past, peoplehave probably experienced that, too.
(17:43):
where people have tried to trip you upand make it intentionally difficult
or awkward.
I was very mindful of thatbecause I've been on the receiving end of
that type of role play where it was likeintentionally trying to make you fail.
And I'm not a believer in that,
I'm a believer in like, let's try tojust try to make this as real as possible.
(18:03):
I found that we put some time into preparing ahead
and making surethat we were using real examples,
like real life examples of prospectsthat they were actually chasing.
So if you're going to practice,
you might as well practice on a real dealthat you're trying to land right?
Why not?
Let's use real, real life experiences.
We have a sponsor that sits in onall of the sessions to, provide feedback,
(18:28):
provide a way for othersthat are providing feedback
and critique to have an exampleof how to do it in a way
that isn't, coming acrossas making it a negative experience, right?
How to provide that kind of, critique
without it being, belittling peoplein front of other people.
That is not the point, right?The point is learning.
(18:50):
And, I have found thatthat worked really well
by giving them the tools necessary to
to know what we were trying to accomplish,setting forth the objective,
having a very well thought out planas far as it, related
to the use cases that we wanted to use.
I even provided details on how to provideconstructive criticism
(19:12):
to the folks that were going to be,providing the feedback.
Thus far it's going really well.
What I have noticed that I just loveis that
there are some peoplethat just deserve an Academy Award.
It's a it's like you can like people
just come out, somesome people are really good at it.
And the ones that I find are fantasticare the one that are
(19:33):
there are actuallyrole playing. The customer
and you learn so much.
That actually tells you in my mind almosthow much they've mastered their art.
Because if you're really convincingat playing the customer,
then, like, I can tell that peoplethat have been doing this for a long time
because they're able to portray thatand it's such a realistic way,
(19:57):
which makes for a very dynamic role play.
There was resistance for surein the beginning.
but the feedback that I've been getting,I think is having that preparation
in advanceand giving everybody tools to do it
in a way that didn't feel haphazardhas gone a long way.
that makes sense.
I have a couple cousinsthat actually work in sales,
(20:19):
and they talk a lot about what tipsand tricks they learn from other people.
Like you were saying,have you ever run into issues, though,
of someone trying to go so far that it's
almost reinventing the wheel.
A little bit?
We havewe have the right to do your time out.
Like I would do it.
(20:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I've had some instanceswhere where it like, definitely
gone down through rabbit holes and,We reserve the time out.
when we're doing it and,and that's for everyone.
You can find yourself rambling and.
Yeah, just going down this crazy path.
Yeah, But that's the whole point.
The whole point of itis that it allows you
(21:01):
the opportunity to do thatand have self-awareness about it.
I think the self-awareness isis a big piece of it.
Clearly, it sounds like in these roleplaying sessions you're providing
some structure, providing guidance,providing feedback, as an expert, there.
What would you say to someonewho's struggling to be authentic in sales.
(21:23):
Yeah.
I mean, it goes back to being curious
because other people
immediately know when you're not.
Yeah.
And so
if you really aren't curiousand you're not approaching
your conversations or your appointmentsor your networking event
(21:48):
with that true sense of curiosity,
people pick up on that.
If you don't have that,
then maybe,maybe it's not the right position.
and that's okay too.
It, You hear people a lottalk about approaching with curiosity, but
(22:08):
you can even tellwhen people are faking that, too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
Can, You do want them to practicethat skill set.
We talk about building rapportand all of those things.
Right.
Building rapport is a big part of sales.
But when you're faking it. Yeah.
Are you just, looked on a LinkedIn profileand and just put something out there.
(22:31):
You're not coming across as authentic.
Yeah. Right.
And so it's just,some of it is just a natural ability to
engage in conversationand have a true sense of wanting
to understandother people and learn about other people.
Some of it is not being afraidto be yourself as well.
(22:53):
Yeah.
not being afraidto share something about yourself
that would maybe spark up a conversationthat would put everybody at ease
because you have to remember
that people that you're meeting withare also in that same situation.
Yeah.
Especially if you're meeting with them
for the first timeand maybe they're very busy.
so, I think it's a reliefsometimes to the people
(23:15):
that you're meeting with,if you can just be authentic and,
maybe share a little bit about yourselfor maybe something funny
that happened to you on the wayor whatever it might be, maybe inject
some humor in there just to let everybodytake a breather, relax a little bit.
and let them know that it's not seriousall the time, right?
Right right.
Right. Right. Right, right. Yeah.
(23:37):
So if it's okay with you,I'd love to pivot in a new direction.
Yeah. If that's okay. So
a littlebit of context is actually last summer
I went up to do a two day workshopwith a company in Canada,
and I always do personal interviewsbefore I go to get to know
whether the pain points are,what's going on, what the issues are,
(23:59):
so that whatever we're training onis relevant.
Right? Yeah.
Well, one of the thingsthat became really obvious,
that needed to bediscussed was being a man
or a woman in the workplaceand the challenges that come up there.
so we did this workshop,
and I did a session where it'sjust being a guy in the workplace.
(24:21):
the struggles there,but also how to create
a safe place and workeffectively and well with women.
And then
the scariest thing I've ever done,being in a room full of of women
who are executive level women,where we talked about the struggles
of being a woman in the workplace. Right.
And I was like,
I have no business talking about this, butI'm going to facilitate this discussion.
(24:42):
Here we go. Yeah.
If you had to say what you've learnedthroughout this career,
and You're telling us previouslythat you're in a male dominated field,
not just the field,but also the position that you have
would be traditionally filled by a man.
And here you are.
(25:03):
What have you learned?
What are your superpowersthat you've learned?
Not only am I just by competing,
I have my own unique thingsthat give me an edge here.
Yeah.
it's funnybecause I never really thought about it
in that light
(25:24):
earlier in my career,
earlier in my career and, in sales that,
not necessarily male dominated,but as I moved into technical sales,
specifically in our industry,telecommunications,
and then moved into the salesengineering, field,
I was kind of an anomaly.
I think at one point in time,one of my leaders called me an enigma.
(25:47):
I wasn't quite sure how to take that.
Is that good or bad, I don't know.
I guess is that good thingis that a bad thing?
Comments like that are the things that
you find as you, especially asyou start to move up in your career
and now you're, you're leading,you're, you're leading mostly
(26:11):
men. I think a lot of times there's.
Maybe some unintentional,
preconceived notions of,what a female leader will be.
And to be honest,I think that some of the folks
that I ended upleading, were probably concerned
(26:33):
to be led by a woman.
because I think that we,maybe historically have had this
for whateverreason, label that, in order to move up
or to be a leader,especially in technology, as a woman,
you have to be overly dominant, overly,pushing and driving.
(26:55):
And honestly, I've never really done that.
I have found that
through the years, a lot of it
to me, especiallybecause it's in the technical space,
some of it's about your technical chops.
Be honest.
And when people see that you, know what
(27:17):
your talking about,then that's kind of disappears.
If you lead people with empathy,
if you lead people with wantingto understand where they're coming from
and show them how you're thereto support their career growth
and their path, I think that all of thosepreconceived notions
(27:41):
and stereotypes can just melt away,and I'm a big believer in that.
I mean, again,it comes back to that authenticity.
But, I will saythere have been challenges.
Reflecting back,a lot of it was self-imposed.
And I think women put, a tremendousamount of pressure on themselves.
(28:01):
we feel that we have
to overachieve in order to get recognized.
There have definitely been timeswhere I have felt that,
and I have feltthat I had to put in the extra hours.
I had to, go above and beyond 24/7.
And it's difficult.
(28:22):
I still have that to a degree.
It's hardto break that cycle of over achievement
in order to advance in your careerand get, recognized.
But, I think that we're evolving.
Yeah.
That's my general sense
is that we are truly evolvingand, the imposter syndrome thing.
Yes, it's real, but I can feel that it'sstarting to dissipate a little bit.
(28:47):
as more and more women are being elevated
into leadership positions and,
I think getting rid of those stereo typesis I'm starting to see it.
but, yes.
Does it still exist? Of course.
Does the, that need, that self-imposedneed to feel like you have to, just go
(29:07):
above and be overachieving and working1,000,000 hours.
Yeah. That still exists.
but as a leader,I have awareness of that.
And so when I see that happening
to the people in my organization,
I call it out.
(29:30):
I call it out,
very much about empowering other people.
And, having people view themselvesas, leaders in their own space,
running their own business,coming up with solutions,
bringing those ideas to the table,helping them in their career growth,
(29:50):
but also noticing that they have
a life outside of work.
and they have, familysometimes or things going on in their life
that sometimes might, take away from,from what you have to do and that's okay.
You don't have to be perfect.
when you're talking about practice makeswhat what did you say
(30:12):
practice makes progress. Yeah.
Yeah. Not practice makes perfection.
And I think, I'm guilty of,sometimes feeling I have to be perfect or,
if I made a mistake at work,I was like, oh,
I'm not going to get the promotionthat I've been trying to seek.
I have to be perfect 24/7..
And that's just not real.
And so, moving into a leadership position,
(30:34):
it's remembering thatand remembering how that feels.
And when you recognize it,call it out and have a discussion
and talk about like it's okayto have a life and it's okay to trip up.
And there's things that go on
in our personal lives that sometimestake away from our work lives.
but as long as your intentionsare to do the right thing
(30:55):
and to, run your business and, have growth
and be willing to approach with curiosity
and learn, then then I'm a big supporter.
I think it's not forgettingwhat it feels like to be in that boat.
Okay.
So the patterns that I'm hearingyou say here that are kind of sound
(31:16):
like hallmarks of your style of leadershipwould be authenticity,
connection, curiosity.
These are wordsthat are coming up frequently, right?
Yeah.
In my experience of talkingwith different people across the globe
is those things are only becomingmore relevant with each passing year
as people are feeling more disconnectedand more hungry for connection,
(31:41):
as they are feeling morelike they're being put in this little box
in education where there's
they're just learninghow to fill in a bubble
rather than actuallyto be curious and learn about life.
and that
by valuing those things that has given you
a power in leadership
that has empowered you to transformthese teams of people, to teach them
(32:03):
how to do sales, which is traditionallyseen as when you think of a salesperson
as super fake and like forcedand and like, please don't.
but you're also empowering themto make genuine connections
with whoever they're working with.
and I can see that as a worldchanging thing.
Right?
As these people go out, it's not justabout the sale, it's about connection.
(32:25):
And I think thatthat would be the superpower.
Right?
It is a superpower.
And, and I feel like it's contagious.
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah.
So it's a lot of itis how you treat other people.
And, just being genuine and recognizingthat people can make mistakes
and it's not detrimental to your career.
(32:45):
nobody is perfect.
And, I think if you if you genuine
also want to see other peoplesucceed and really mean it
and approach your day to day
like thatand your interactions, interdepartmental,
even people that aren'twithin your specific department,
then it's contagious for other people.
(33:07):
And I think that's how you build really,really good company culture.
Yeah.
Is having that willingness to be open,
to empower others, to listen to othersideas,
and values, understandingthat people have different values.
People are coming from all different walksof life and, being empathetic to that.
(33:29):
but also moving the needle,getting the job done,
and being productive and,being successful as a team.
Yeah.I think you can do all of those things.
Yeah.
I think you can still be competitive
and have a get after it spirit
and be successful in an organization.
(33:50):
Achieve your goals in an organization.
But you can do it in a way that's genuine,
that's empowering others,
that's, coming from a place whereyou really want to succeed as a team.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So as we're
wrappingup here towards the end of our time,
(34:11):
I want to give you the opportunityto share any lasting star on your mind.
It might look like somethingalong the lines of,
if you could put one thing into your self20 years ago into your mind and say,
no, intrinsically know this nowso you don't have to spend 20 years
learning this or it could be anything elsethat comes to your mind.
(34:31):
What would you want people to know?
Yeah, if if I could step back
into my 20 year old self,
I would tell my 20 year old self that
you can do it.
you have the ability.
Be confident,
be curious.
(34:53):
Don't be afraid to talk about yourself.
Don't be afraid
to talk about your own accomplishments.
and really create a network of people.
one of the big thingsthat I have been very fortunate is,
I've had people in my lifethat have really, really supported me
(35:14):
and really wanted to see me be successful
and surrounding yourself with other people
that want to see you achieve your goals,or maybe even people
that see something in youthat you don't see in yourself.
it's really, really powerful.
And so, take advantage of the opportunityto seek out relationships like that
(35:36):
where people have your back
and people would really wantto see you succeed in your path.
It has been a really powerful thingfor me.
I've had a lot of great peoplethat weren't just mentors.
They saw something in meand wanted to see me succeed.
And so when you see thatin other people, pay it forward.
I love it.
Yeah, I love it.
thank you so much for joining us todayand for sharing these lessons
(36:01):
and for being so genuine, authentic,and for being willing to share
these really valuable lessons,excited to explore
these further in mini-workshopsthat we do after of practical Application,
how do we take some of these big conceptsand put it into something for the day?
It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
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