August 12, 2024 • 24 mins
Welcome to the second episode of "Mental Wealth" with your host, Casey Dubravcic, a board-certified psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner and the owner of Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic. In this episode, Casey introduces the concept of the Intrinsic Response Methodology (IRM), a groundbreaking approach to mental health treatment that aims to fast-track results by empowering individuals to become their own best healers.
Casey delves into the limitations of traditional ketamine-associated psychotherapy and therapy models, highlighting the high costs, limited effectiveness, and potential for negative human interactions. Instead, the IRM approach focuses on utilizing ego dissolution agents and breathwork to help individuals achieve radical authenticity and better mental health outcomes.
Listeners will learn about the importance of setting, mindset, and sustainability in treatment, as well as practical techniques like guided visualization and safe container creation. Casey also emphasizes the value of self-empowerment and the role of the subconscious in the healing process.
Tune in to discover how the Intrinsic Response Methodology can help you get out of your own way, overcome trauma, and achieve a more prosperous version of yourself. Don't miss this insightful episode filled with practical advice and inspiring insights for anyone looking to improve their mental wealth.
Learn more and catch up at www.revitalizeketamine.com and at www.rohct.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to our second episode.
So this is your host, Casey Dubrovik, board-certified psychiatric mental health
nurse practitioner, the owner and operator of Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic.
And this is all about your mental wealth.
(00:22):
What can you do to create a more prosperous version of yourself.
So today I want to talk about what I call the intrinsic response methodology.
So the intrinsic response methodology is a way of going about treatment that
can really fast track your results.
(00:45):
And so there's multiple
ways of getting ketamine treatments there's
what's called ketamine associated psychotherapy and shamanism
often falls into a category
similar to this where there's sound healing and one-on-one sessions conditions
(01:07):
and I would say more human interaction and more abilities to intervene.
And there's a few reasons that I'm not a huge proponent of that for most people.
And so I'll just start with those reasons why I'm not a big fan of that particular.
(01:33):
Approach, that treatment approach.
And so and I'm always evolving and so I think that the CAP model can be done
incredibly well I just don't think that our current healthcare system can support
that in a sustainable fashion so that's.
One reason that in its current state, I can't really support it.
(01:58):
And I've got some ideas that we can make it more supportable and sustainable.
And I just haven't seen that system implemented well at a larger scale just yet.
And so here are the reasons why I'm not a proponent of the cat or cat model,
(02:21):
ketamine-associated psychotherapy and ketamine-associated therapy.
So the reasons are, one, it's much more expensive.
In large part, you have a practitioner, a therapist, psychologist,
and they're in the room with you.
(02:42):
And their resources are undivided, and so the barrier to entrance is quite high
from a financial component.
Two, in large part with the CAP model, you're getting less of the ego dissolution agent.
So you're getting less and less effective versions of the psychedelic and or
(03:09):
ego dissolution agent. it.
So with the CAP model in the ketamine world, you're getting oral trochies or.
Intranasal spray, and I think it'd be quite effective for people.
And it's letting the walls crack down, like they're just getting tilted down,
(03:30):
maybe 10 to 45 degrees in a good case.
Space so there you're getting less
out of your own way basically the walls are still up
in large part mask is you're peeking
out from behind the mask but the mask is not off and
so you're still protecting yourself the ego is still up it's not true ego dissolution
(03:50):
or ego death in large part all right and so the third reason i'm not a big fan
of the cap model is that there is a big human human component that you are introducing into your healing.
And so we know in general, pretty much across the board, a great world-renowned
(04:11):
therapist, whatever, they've written lots of books.
Most people who write reviews on them really love them.
They're going to be a great therapist for 70 to 85% of the population.
The rest, they're just going to buy heads. And that's just the nature of human
beings. Some people you just aren't going to get along with.
And with the cap and cap model, normally there's not very many options on who
(04:32):
you're going to be working with. This is your person. This is who you're going to see.
And if you don't like them, well, they'll just guide you to lean into that.
And that's normally not helpful.
It can be in the right circumstances in general. Trying to work with someone
who, by essence, you just don't get along with isn't a great way to develop
(04:56):
a therapeutic alliance.
All right. And then fourthly, a big part of the CAP-CAT model is that you're
turning over all those big stones right away.
And it's like, hey, I barely just met you. Let's talk about all the traumas
you ever had in your whole life. And let's especially concentrate on the biggest,
scariest, gnarliest ones.
(05:16):
So, yeah, right. Think about it. Oftentimes, that's not the best move.
And especially, you know, with the EMDR kind of model, eye movement desensitization
and reprocessing, which is the modality I'm trained in.
There's a really good technique called resourcing that's not often implemented in CAPCAT.
(05:40):
And I think that would be something that would do well to be given as tools
that people could use as far as a comm safe space, as well as a container, a safe container.
And so those are terminologies and resources that are taught in a good EMDR program.
(06:01):
Again, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing that allows you as a clinician
to help clients to develop their own comm safe space with guided visualization
as well as their own safe container. So some people will have.
Pirate ship types of treasure boxes with, you know, big old lock around it.
(06:24):
Someone will have like a little locket box.
Someone else may have a kitchen drawer cabinet.
And this is the place that they put their hardest, scariest stuff in.
And I've never heard about those techniques used in the CapCat model.
That might be a good kind of crossover at some point.
(06:45):
In general, again, Again, the fourth reason I'm not a big fan of the CAP-CAT
model is they're turning over all those big stones right away.
And oftentimes people are leaving in a more activated state than they first got there.
The fifth reason that I'm not a huge proponent of the CAP-CAT model is that
we're basically disempowering the patient to be their own best healer. Say, hey, you need us.
(07:12):
Like, we're here. You just need to lean on us. You need to let us ask you expert questions.
You need us to help you heal.
And I'm really all about when I'm working with clients, hey,
I'm not teaching you anything new.
Maybe I'm helping you with some breathing techniques. Maybe I'm giving you some
(07:34):
techniques like that, some dietary guidance, again, nutrition guidance.
That being said, I'm helping people remember.
Remember and and that's what patients said that
i really loved and it stuck with me and it's
we're born remembering we forget
along the way and our job is to remember again and so that that's how i like
(07:58):
to go about things and i'll talk about how i go about things so again we're
disempowering the client to do their own work and so that in that same fifth
kind of reason is we all do so
much pedestalizing of other people's expectations of us, right?
And so I noticed that all the time as a psychiatric provider.
(08:20):
I'd go into a room, be like, hey, how are you doing?
And they'd be like, oh, Casey, I'm doing great. I'm like, oh, you're not?
They're like, yeah, you're right, I'm not. And then they, you know,
they proceed to actually tell me what's going on.
And so when you're in there and you're kind of rooting, and tooting them on
as a provider, patients are like, yeah, I want to get better because Casey wants me to get better.
(08:45):
And anytime someone's doing it for not themselves, they're not going to do as well.
Same thing when people come in and like, oh, I just want to get better for my
kids. I just want to get better for my wife. I just want to get better for my mom, my dad.
That can be helpful. Yeah, it's good that you want to do that.
And you want people to be happy with where you're at.
(09:08):
And you're going to do a lot better if you do this for yourself.
Last reason that I really don't like CAP, and this is what it boils down to
for me, is I'm not in your tribe, right? Like, we're not hanging out on the weekends.
Like, I don't know you. I don't hang out with you besides in the clinic as your clinician.
(09:30):
And so with that, this is work for me, right?
So I'm choosing to leave my family and leave my house and leave my home and come to here.
And yeah, it's super rewarding work and I love it. And it's work, right?
I'm being paid to be here. And so that being said, I'm a real human, right?
(09:53):
And so sometimes I'll be at work and I'll be 9,500% best version of myself.
And then sometimes I'll be at work and I'll be like 10 to 30% of myself,
right? Like what I'm capable of.
Like maybe I just fought off a big illness.
Maybe I'm struggling because like the kids and I had a hard night the night
(10:13):
before, you know, maybe my wife and I are going through some stuff. I don't know.
Anyways, I'm going to bring that to work sometimes and I'm sorry,
but that's, that's what I do.
It's a being a real human, right? Right. And so when you're on an ego dissolution
agent, then I guess I'm not really sorry.
(10:33):
I had a friend once like, don't be sorry. Like they're saying something like
say something else entirely.
And I really like that. So I'm happy that I can be real with you. Right.
And so I'm happy that sometimes I can still go to work at 10 to 30 percent and
(10:53):
I'm still here to talk about it. right?
Imagine all of us have days where we're not on a hundred percent.
And so I'm happy that I can continue to do that and still be overall pretty
good clinician from what I've heard people say.
And again, I'm not in your tribe. So, so much transference, counter-transference
(11:19):
gets it's amplified like a lot when you're on any sort of ego dissolution agent.
So I've seen it flip flop. I've heard of it flip flopping where the client goes
into the clinician role and then clinician goes into the client role.
They ask, how are you doing? And then there's this opening up and then there's
(11:43):
a kind of exchange and probably there's some circumstances of that being a good thing.
Oftentimes, that's not what we're looking for.
And so that's part of the CAP-CAT model that you're just super plugged in.
When you're on egotest solution agent, your walls are down. You can pick up
(12:03):
on those types of things.
And you're not going to have as quality of an experience as you would if left to your own devices.
And so that's what we do at Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic.
We have other options available.
But primarily, we focus on what I like to call the intrinsic response methodology.
(12:25):
At least at this point. And so the intrinsic response methodology is actually
a coin that I believe I've termed, and it's a way of going about treatment,
especially with ego dissolution agents and breathwork, that allow for you to
get out of your own way faster,
(12:45):
more effectively, and more robustly.
Basically, the whole premise of the IRN intrinsic response methodology is that
you will always be your own best healer.
And so as your own best healer, you know what you need, especially your subconscious knows what you need.
And so that's that radically authentic version of yourself.
(13:09):
I went to this really great presentation down in Sedona, Arizona,
and the title of the presentation, And it was a whole evening of just wonderful presenters.
And the title was Better Than Sex.
Ultimately, what it boiled down to is what's better than sex?
(13:29):
Radical authenticity, being able to be your real self with people.
And then, you know, sometimes you combine those two things and it's even better.
So in general, with the intrinsic response methodology, the whole premise,
again, is that you will always be your own best healer.
(13:50):
And to be able to do that effectively, you need to have the proper set, setting.
And I really like Zach Leary's sustainability. sustainability
so often set and setting are kind
of really reiterated when you're talking about responsible psychedelic usage
(14:13):
and so set is going into an experience with the right mindset like hey and and
that's something that we really like to hold as a paramount premise of treatment treatment,
Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize,
is that we're doing this on purpose, right?
So as much as possible in Western medicine, we like to hold this treatment as
(14:36):
sacred and that we're doing it on purpose and people are there to try to be
better versions of themselves, to try to let go of a lot of baggage they've been holding on to.
We've turned a lot of people away who are like, hey, I just want to try ketamine.
It's like, well, that's not really why we're here.
We really want to be able to help people help themselves.
(14:56):
And so with that being said, with the intrinsic response methodology,
again, the whole premise is you'll always be your own best healer.
So you cut your hand and I put a Band-Aid on it. Am I healing it?
No, of course not, right? You're still healing it. And so same thing with your brain.
It doesn't like being in this anxious distress state and it wants to go through
(15:18):
that physiological shudder.
Oftentimes those three types of trauma are holding people back from being where
they want to be and where they're designed to be and where they're capable of being.
Again, that one first type of trauma is your historical trauma.
Second type of trauma is that intergenerational trauma.
You know, great, great, great grandparents. And then the third type of trauma
(15:40):
is that societal trauma again, right?
Living in that patriarchal, capitalistic society with an economy of scale and
that largely disconnected family unit, pretty bad for our brains.
And again, that's the environment that most people exist in.
And being able to take a break from that is really important periodically.
(16:02):
There's a really good book, The Immortality Key, The Secret History of Religion with No Name.
And it talks about how indigenous people and ancient civilizations,
at least as far back as 12,000 BC.
Were using, and this is verified through archeological finds and some other
evidence, a really great book. I highly recommend it.
(16:25):
Again, The Immortality Key, secret history of religion, no name.
The writer of the book has never done any sort of psychedelics or hadn't when
he penned the book, in large part to be able to keep his title as a non-biased
researcher, non-biased clinician.
And so I'm a big proponent of that. I think that's great, very admirable.
(16:48):
And to be able to write about that subject matter with that lens,
I think, lends even more credence to how effective that resource is.
So that being said, again, IRM, intrinsic response methodology,
whole premise, you always be your own best healer.
And your subconscious knows what you need, common tenet with any sort of ego
(17:15):
dissolution agent, you'll get what you need, not necessarily what you want.
And so we have a whole set of flight instructions that we go through that helps
people with the intrinsic response methodology.
And those are.
Really to provide that set setting and sustainability, right?
(17:35):
And so we know that music is that hidden therapist and not everyone's going
to respond to music in the same way.
We also know that reducing external stimuli as far as things that take you out
of the experience will allow for better treatment responses and that you're
(17:57):
able to go deeper and do more healing work for yourself.
So that setting an intention on why you're here being on purpose,
super important in a safe setting to make sure that you can trust the people that you're with.
From that perspective, I would just tell people, this is a safe space,
you can tell us as much or as little as you need to about your trauma.
(18:22):
So, you know, over disclosure isn't necessarily a good thing.
And then, And especially when you're just getting to know people.
And so as a clinician, you never want to feel like you're pulling that out.
You want to, if it comes out, it should come out naturally.
And it shouldn't feel like it was forced out of you in any sort of way.
(18:46):
And other parts
of the intrinsic response methodology is really
leaning into any sort of fear anxiety knowing that you created that tiger you
created that dragon the way to extinguish those quote-unquote hard emotions
(19:06):
is to put your head inside that proverbial tiger dragon's mouth mouth.
Again, knowing that you created that tiger, you created that dragon,
and you don't want to banish that.
You don't want to exile it. You want it to be accepted.
You want to say, hey, I appreciate you. Thanks for getting me here.
Again, no regerts, not even one letter.
(19:28):
Everything you did helped me to get to the point I'm at. That being said,
you don't want that tiger, you don't want that dragon driving your bus.
They're terrible shifters. They never use their turn signals,
always on the horn and giving inappropriate hand gestures to other drivers.
And so you want that more radically authentic version of yourself driving the bus.
(19:49):
And you want to keep that tiger and that dragon on your bus to be able to be
called forth in times of duress, in times of need.
Again, they were designed on purpose and they served you well at some point in your life.
So thank you. I accept you and I appreciate you and I love you.
That part of me, a nice work here. High five, right?
(20:11):
Or real high five, depends on how tangible everything is.
And let's see, about the intrinsic response methodology,
the more you reduce the external stimuli as far as eye shades,
noise-canceling headphones, trying to cultivate a good playlist with a bit of
a build-up, with a bit of a crescendo, and with a bit of, you know, re-adaptation.
(20:37):
And so there's science on creating the right playlist, and there's some really
good playlists that already exist out there.
Steve halpern does some really good stuff john
hopkins music for psychedelic therapy with the
ram das meditation at the end like that album is
absolute gold and there's some other really good playlists that are cultivated
(20:58):
out there there's ketamine infusion heart opening like that one there's just
a lot of stuff and so again no one needs any sort of ego dissolution agent.
There's a million ways to get to a healthier headspace in general.
All ego dissolution agents are non-specific amplifiers of the human experience.
(21:21):
And those other ways, they can work and they can often take decades to work, if ever.
And so it's worth a discussion if you or another one and someone in your life
is struggling to reach out and see if treatments like these are something that
would be helpful for you.
And so I definitely don't think ego dissolution agents for everyone is the answer.
(21:47):
I think that making a shift in the way we utilize our resources is a little
bit better of a move at a larger scale. And that's a different discussion.
And I appreciate you so much. Thanks for listening. This is Casey Dubrovik,
(22:07):
psychiatric mental illness practitioner,
owner and operator of Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic,
reophah.com, R-E-O-P-H-A.com.
And very excited to have you. And again, I always like to just let you know
wherever you are, that's where you're supposed to be right now.
(22:31):
And wherever you are, there's room for improvement.
There's opportunities for advancement. And you can't do it wrong.
If you're working on making things better for yourself, yeah,
there's going to be some bumps in the road. There always are.
And it's up to you. You're the master of your own destiny.
(22:52):
And you got this. And we believe in you.
And what's good for you is good for the universe everyone's going to benefit,
so take care of yourself take care of those around you and if you have the opportunity to do so.
Lift someone else up help them feel a
little bit better about themselves and what they're doing for other people in
(23:16):
your life so that could be simple as a stranger at the the grocery store or
that friend or that connection that you haven't reached out to that you've been
meaning to for a while. They'd love to hear your voice.
They'd love to see a text message from you and they'd appreciate a little bump.
(23:36):
We all do when we feel that other people care about us and that's a good thing.
So mental wealth, right? What is it? How do we get there?
It's always a moving target and you're on track listening to this and working on yourself.
Really nice work. Pat yourself on the back. You're doing a great job.
(23:59):
It's Casey Dubrovik and I'll catch you next time. Make it a great day.
Hello and welcome to our second episode.
So this is your host, Casey Dubrovik, board-certified psychiatric mental health
nurse practitioner, the owner and operator of Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic.
And this is all about your mental wealth.
(00:22):
What can you do to create a more prosperous version of yourself.
So today I want to talk about what I call the intrinsic response methodology.
So the intrinsic response methodology is a way of going about treatment that
can really fast track your results.
(00:45):
And so there's multiple
ways of getting ketamine treatments there's
what's called ketamine associated psychotherapy and shamanism
often falls into a category
similar to this where there's sound healing and one-on-one sessions conditions
(01:07):
and I would say more human interaction and more abilities to intervene.
And there's a few reasons that I'm not a huge proponent of that for most people.
And so I'll just start with those reasons why I'm not a big fan of that particular.
(01:33):
Approach, that treatment approach.
And so and I'm always evolving and so I think that the CAP model can be done
incredibly well I just don't think that our current healthcare system can support
that in a sustainable fashion so that's.
One reason that in its current state, I can't really support it.
(01:58):
And I've got some ideas that we can make it more supportable and sustainable.
And I just haven't seen that system implemented well at a larger scale just yet.
And so here are the reasons why I'm not a proponent of the cat or cat model,
(02:21):
ketamine-associated psychotherapy and ketamine-associated therapy.
So the reasons are, one, it's much more expensive.
In large part, you have a practitioner, a therapist, psychologist,
and they're in the room with you.
(02:42):
And their resources are undivided, and so the barrier to entrance is quite high
from a financial component.
Two, in large part with the CAP model, you're getting less of the ego dissolution agent.
So you're getting less and less effective versions of the psychedelic and or
(03:09):
ego dissolution agent. it.
So with the CAP model in the ketamine world, you're getting oral trochies or.
Intranasal spray, and I think it'd be quite effective for people.
And it's letting the walls crack down, like they're just getting tilted down,
(03:30):
maybe 10 to 45 degrees in a good case.
Space so there you're getting less
out of your own way basically the walls are still up
in large part mask is you're peeking
out from behind the mask but the mask is not off and
so you're still protecting yourself the ego is still up it's not true ego dissolution
(03:50):
or ego death in large part all right and so the third reason i'm not a big fan
of the cap model is that there is a big human human component that you are introducing into your healing.
And so we know in general, pretty much across the board, a great world-renowned
(04:11):
therapist, whatever, they've written lots of books.
Most people who write reviews on them really love them.
They're going to be a great therapist for 70 to 85% of the population.
The rest, they're just going to buy heads. And that's just the nature of human
beings. Some people you just aren't going to get along with.
And with the cap and cap model, normally there's not very many options on who
(04:32):
you're going to be working with. This is your person. This is who you're going to see.
And if you don't like them, well, they'll just guide you to lean into that.
And that's normally not helpful.
It can be in the right circumstances in general. Trying to work with someone
who, by essence, you just don't get along with isn't a great way to develop
(04:56):
a therapeutic alliance.
All right. And then fourthly, a big part of the CAP-CAT model is that you're
turning over all those big stones right away.
And it's like, hey, I barely just met you. Let's talk about all the traumas
you ever had in your whole life. And let's especially concentrate on the biggest,
scariest, gnarliest ones.
(05:16):
So, yeah, right. Think about it. Oftentimes, that's not the best move.
And especially, you know, with the EMDR kind of model, eye movement desensitization
and reprocessing, which is the modality I'm trained in.
There's a really good technique called resourcing that's not often implemented in CAPCAT.
(05:40):
And I think that would be something that would do well to be given as tools
that people could use as far as a comm safe space, as well as a container, a safe container.
And so those are terminologies and resources that are taught in a good EMDR program.
(06:01):
Again, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing that allows you as a clinician
to help clients to develop their own comm safe space with guided visualization
as well as their own safe container. So some people will have.
Pirate ship types of treasure boxes with, you know, big old lock around it.
(06:24):
Someone will have like a little locket box.
Someone else may have a kitchen drawer cabinet.
And this is the place that they put their hardest, scariest stuff in.
And I've never heard about those techniques used in the CapCat model.
That might be a good kind of crossover at some point.
(06:45):
In general, again, Again, the fourth reason I'm not a big fan of the CAP-CAT
model is they're turning over all those big stones right away.
And oftentimes people are leaving in a more activated state than they first got there.
The fifth reason that I'm not a huge proponent of the CAP-CAT model is that
we're basically disempowering the patient to be their own best healer. Say, hey, you need us.
(07:12):
Like, we're here. You just need to lean on us. You need to let us ask you expert questions.
You need us to help you heal.
And I'm really all about when I'm working with clients, hey,
I'm not teaching you anything new.
Maybe I'm helping you with some breathing techniques. Maybe I'm giving you some
(07:34):
techniques like that, some dietary guidance, again, nutrition guidance.
That being said, I'm helping people remember.
Remember and and that's what patients said that
i really loved and it stuck with me and it's
we're born remembering we forget
along the way and our job is to remember again and so that that's how i like
(07:58):
to go about things and i'll talk about how i go about things so again we're
disempowering the client to do their own work and so that in that same fifth
kind of reason is we all do so
much pedestalizing of other people's expectations of us, right?
And so I noticed that all the time as a psychiatric provider.
(08:20):
I'd go into a room, be like, hey, how are you doing?
And they'd be like, oh, Casey, I'm doing great. I'm like, oh, you're not?
They're like, yeah, you're right, I'm not. And then they, you know,
they proceed to actually tell me what's going on.
And so when you're in there and you're kind of rooting, and tooting them on
as a provider, patients are like, yeah, I want to get better because Casey wants me to get better.
(08:45):
And anytime someone's doing it for not themselves, they're not going to do as well.
Same thing when people come in and like, oh, I just want to get better for my
kids. I just want to get better for my wife. I just want to get better for my mom, my dad.
That can be helpful. Yeah, it's good that you want to do that.
And you want people to be happy with where you're at.
(09:08):
And you're going to do a lot better if you do this for yourself.
Last reason that I really don't like CAP, and this is what it boils down to
for me, is I'm not in your tribe, right? Like, we're not hanging out on the weekends.
Like, I don't know you. I don't hang out with you besides in the clinic as your clinician.
(09:30):
And so with that, this is work for me, right?
So I'm choosing to leave my family and leave my house and leave my home and come to here.
And yeah, it's super rewarding work and I love it. And it's work, right?
I'm being paid to be here. And so that being said, I'm a real human, right?
(09:53):
And so sometimes I'll be at work and I'll be 9,500% best version of myself.
And then sometimes I'll be at work and I'll be like 10 to 30% of myself,
right? Like what I'm capable of.
Like maybe I just fought off a big illness.
Maybe I'm struggling because like the kids and I had a hard night the night
(10:13):
before, you know, maybe my wife and I are going through some stuff. I don't know.
Anyways, I'm going to bring that to work sometimes and I'm sorry,
but that's, that's what I do.
It's a being a real human, right? Right. And so when you're on an ego dissolution
agent, then I guess I'm not really sorry.
(10:33):
I had a friend once like, don't be sorry. Like they're saying something like
say something else entirely.
And I really like that. So I'm happy that I can be real with you. Right.
And so I'm happy that sometimes I can still go to work at 10 to 30 percent and
(10:53):
I'm still here to talk about it. right?
Imagine all of us have days where we're not on a hundred percent.
And so I'm happy that I can continue to do that and still be overall pretty
good clinician from what I've heard people say.
And again, I'm not in your tribe. So, so much transference, counter-transference
(11:19):
gets it's amplified like a lot when you're on any sort of ego dissolution agent.
So I've seen it flip flop. I've heard of it flip flopping where the client goes
into the clinician role and then clinician goes into the client role.
They ask, how are you doing? And then there's this opening up and then there's
(11:43):
a kind of exchange and probably there's some circumstances of that being a good thing.
Oftentimes, that's not what we're looking for.
And so that's part of the CAP-CAT model that you're just super plugged in.
When you're on egotest solution agent, your walls are down. You can pick up
(12:03):
on those types of things.
And you're not going to have as quality of an experience as you would if left to your own devices.
And so that's what we do at Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic.
We have other options available.
But primarily, we focus on what I like to call the intrinsic response methodology.
(12:25):
At least at this point. And so the intrinsic response methodology is actually
a coin that I believe I've termed, and it's a way of going about treatment,
especially with ego dissolution agents and breathwork, that allow for you to
get out of your own way faster,
(12:45):
more effectively, and more robustly.
Basically, the whole premise of the IRN intrinsic response methodology is that
you will always be your own best healer.
And so as your own best healer, you know what you need, especially your subconscious knows what you need.
And so that's that radically authentic version of yourself.
(13:09):
I went to this really great presentation down in Sedona, Arizona,
and the title of the presentation, And it was a whole evening of just wonderful presenters.
And the title was Better Than Sex.
Ultimately, what it boiled down to is what's better than sex?
(13:29):
Radical authenticity, being able to be your real self with people.
And then, you know, sometimes you combine those two things and it's even better.
So in general, with the intrinsic response methodology, the whole premise,
again, is that you will always be your own best healer.
(13:50):
And to be able to do that effectively, you need to have the proper set, setting.
And I really like Zach Leary's sustainability. sustainability
so often set and setting are kind
of really reiterated when you're talking about responsible psychedelic usage
(14:13):
and so set is going into an experience with the right mindset like hey and and
that's something that we really like to hold as a paramount premise of treatment treatment,
Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize,
is that we're doing this on purpose, right?
So as much as possible in Western medicine, we like to hold this treatment as
(14:36):
sacred and that we're doing it on purpose and people are there to try to be
better versions of themselves, to try to let go of a lot of baggage they've been holding on to.
We've turned a lot of people away who are like, hey, I just want to try ketamine.
It's like, well, that's not really why we're here.
We really want to be able to help people help themselves.
(14:56):
And so with that being said, with the intrinsic response methodology,
again, the whole premise is you'll always be your own best healer.
So you cut your hand and I put a Band-Aid on it. Am I healing it?
No, of course not, right? You're still healing it. And so same thing with your brain.
It doesn't like being in this anxious distress state and it wants to go through
(15:18):
that physiological shudder.
Oftentimes those three types of trauma are holding people back from being where
they want to be and where they're designed to be and where they're capable of being.
Again, that one first type of trauma is your historical trauma.
Second type of trauma is that intergenerational trauma.
You know, great, great, great grandparents. And then the third type of trauma
(15:40):
is that societal trauma again, right?
Living in that patriarchal, capitalistic society with an economy of scale and
that largely disconnected family unit, pretty bad for our brains.
And again, that's the environment that most people exist in.
And being able to take a break from that is really important periodically.
(16:02):
There's a really good book, The Immortality Key, The Secret History of Religion with No Name.
And it talks about how indigenous people and ancient civilizations,
at least as far back as 12,000 BC.
Were using, and this is verified through archeological finds and some other
evidence, a really great book. I highly recommend it.
(16:25):
Again, The Immortality Key, secret history of religion, no name.
The writer of the book has never done any sort of psychedelics or hadn't when
he penned the book, in large part to be able to keep his title as a non-biased
researcher, non-biased clinician.
And so I'm a big proponent of that. I think that's great, very admirable.
(16:48):
And to be able to write about that subject matter with that lens,
I think, lends even more credence to how effective that resource is.
So that being said, again, IRM, intrinsic response methodology,
whole premise, you always be your own best healer.
And your subconscious knows what you need, common tenet with any sort of ego
(17:15):
dissolution agent, you'll get what you need, not necessarily what you want.
And so we have a whole set of flight instructions that we go through that helps
people with the intrinsic response methodology.
And those are.
Really to provide that set setting and sustainability, right?
(17:35):
And so we know that music is that hidden therapist and not everyone's going
to respond to music in the same way.
We also know that reducing external stimuli as far as things that take you out
of the experience will allow for better treatment responses and that you're
(17:57):
able to go deeper and do more healing work for yourself.
So that setting an intention on why you're here being on purpose,
super important in a safe setting to make sure that you can trust the people that you're with.
From that perspective, I would just tell people, this is a safe space,
you can tell us as much or as little as you need to about your trauma.
(18:22):
So, you know, over disclosure isn't necessarily a good thing.
And then, And especially when you're just getting to know people.
And so as a clinician, you never want to feel like you're pulling that out.
You want to, if it comes out, it should come out naturally.
And it shouldn't feel like it was forced out of you in any sort of way.
(18:46):
And other parts
of the intrinsic response methodology is really
leaning into any sort of fear anxiety knowing that you created that tiger you
created that dragon the way to extinguish those quote-unquote hard emotions
(19:06):
is to put your head inside that proverbial tiger dragon's mouth mouth.
Again, knowing that you created that tiger, you created that dragon,
and you don't want to banish that.
You don't want to exile it. You want it to be accepted.
You want to say, hey, I appreciate you. Thanks for getting me here.
Again, no regerts, not even one letter.
(19:28):
Everything you did helped me to get to the point I'm at. That being said,
you don't want that tiger, you don't want that dragon driving your bus.
They're terrible shifters. They never use their turn signals,
always on the horn and giving inappropriate hand gestures to other drivers.
And so you want that more radically authentic version of yourself driving the bus.
(19:49):
And you want to keep that tiger and that dragon on your bus to be able to be
called forth in times of duress, in times of need.
Again, they were designed on purpose and they served you well at some point in your life.
So thank you. I accept you and I appreciate you and I love you.
That part of me, a nice work here. High five, right?
(20:11):
Or real high five, depends on how tangible everything is.
And let's see, about the intrinsic response methodology,
the more you reduce the external stimuli as far as eye shades,
noise-canceling headphones, trying to cultivate a good playlist with a bit of
a build-up, with a bit of a crescendo, and with a bit of, you know, re-adaptation.
(20:37):
And so there's science on creating the right playlist, and there's some really
good playlists that already exist out there.
Steve halpern does some really good stuff john
hopkins music for psychedelic therapy with the
ram das meditation at the end like that album is
absolute gold and there's some other really good playlists that are cultivated
(20:58):
out there there's ketamine infusion heart opening like that one there's just
a lot of stuff and so again no one needs any sort of ego dissolution agent.
There's a million ways to get to a healthier headspace in general.
All ego dissolution agents are non-specific amplifiers of the human experience.
(21:21):
And those other ways, they can work and they can often take decades to work, if ever.
And so it's worth a discussion if you or another one and someone in your life
is struggling to reach out and see if treatments like these are something that
would be helpful for you.
And so I definitely don't think ego dissolution agents for everyone is the answer.
(21:47):
I think that making a shift in the way we utilize our resources is a little
bit better of a move at a larger scale. And that's a different discussion.
And I appreciate you so much. Thanks for listening. This is Casey Dubrovik,
(22:07):
psychiatric mental illness practitioner,
owner and operator of Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic,
reophah.com, R-E-O-P-H-A.com.
And very excited to have you. And again, I always like to just let you know
wherever you are, that's where you're supposed to be right now.
(22:31):
And wherever you are, there's room for improvement.
There's opportunities for advancement. And you can't do it wrong.
If you're working on making things better for yourself, yeah,
there's going to be some bumps in the road. There always are.
And it's up to you. You're the master of your own destiny.
(22:52):
And you got this. And we believe in you.
And what's good for you is good for the universe everyone's going to benefit,
so take care of yourself take care of those around you and if you have the opportunity to do so.
Lift someone else up help them feel a
little bit better about themselves and what they're doing for other people in
(23:16):
your life so that could be simple as a stranger at the the grocery store or
that friend or that connection that you haven't reached out to that you've been
meaning to for a while. They'd love to hear your voice.
They'd love to see a text message from you and they'd appreciate a little bump.
(23:36):
We all do when we feel that other people care about us and that's a good thing.
So mental wealth, right? What is it? How do we get there?
It's always a moving target and you're on track listening to this and working on yourself.
Really nice work. Pat yourself on the back. You're doing a great job.
(23:59):
It's Casey Dubrovik and I'll catch you next time. Make it a great day.
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