August 12, 2024 • 26 mins
Welcome to the first episode of the Mental Wealth Podcast, hosted by Casey Dubravcic, owner and operator of the Revitalize Ketamine Clinic also known as Revitalize and Optimize Clinic as well as ROHCT Wellness Bar, and one of the founders of Epik Biosciences. Join Casey as he introduces the concept of Mental Wealth and the importance of achieving a healthy mental state.
Casey shares his journey as a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, discussing the evolution of his clinic and the significant impact of ketamine treatments on mental health. He delves into the various types of trauma—historical, epigenetic, and societal—and their profound effects on individuals.
Discover the groundbreaking potential of ego dissolution agents like ketamine in treating underlying mental health issues, moving beyond merely addressing symptoms. Casey emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to mental wellness, including the critical role of lifestyle factors such as nutrition and exercise.
Join us as we explore the transformative power of trauma-informed care and innovative treatments in achieving true Mental Wealth. Stay tuned for the next episode, where Casey will discuss the Intrinsic Response Methodology, a unique approach to helping individuals heal and thrive.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, good evening and welcome to Mental Wealth.
What is Mental Wealth?
Well, Mental Wealth is that feeling that you have when things are going well in your brain.
I, as a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, feel that Mental Wealth
(00:25):
is so paramount for all of us to get to that point.
And it's important to recognize that that point oscillates. I need direction in this podcast.
So let's start with Welcome, Welcome. This is the Mental Wealth Podcast.
(00:45):
I'm your host, Casey Dubrovik. I am the owner and operator of Revitalize,
Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic, previously known as Revitalize Ketamine Clinic.
There has been a bit of a crackdown on the usage of the terminology of ketamine,
(01:07):
especially in contact via online,
like Twilio, that sort of And so
as the impetus of that
crackdown and some other clinic owners finding
that they can no longer utilize the Twilio and other service providers that
(01:32):
provide that online texting service with any sort of nomenclature referencing
ketamine and other psychedelics.
And so that's why we switched to Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic,
which I think does a better job of really streamlining what we're trying to do and offer.
(01:55):
So as a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, I love my title,
by the way, that mental health is built right in there.
I've been in health care since 2004. I've been around the block in that regard.
I worked in ICU, the intensive care unit, as well as the CV ICU,
(02:16):
the cardiovascular intensive care unit, pre-op and PACU areas.
Is. I was a registered nurse while I was continuing my education to be a nurse
practitioner who is board certified in psychiatry.
And then I went on in my training to train in electroconvulsive therapy,
as well as the inpatient outpatient unit of my own local hospital system,
(02:43):
Northern Arizona Health Care's mental health system under one of my favorite mentors.
Jay Collier, who visited our clinic and said, you know, the evidence is in and
ketamine infusions and treatments are the future.
And that's where we need to be trending in psychiatry and lends a a lot of credence
(03:08):
to the belief that I have that psychedelics and ego dissolution agents,
similar to ketamine, really allow for the treatment of underlying problems that
are causing those symptoms.
So that's been a big issue for a long time in psychiatry and the Western medical model in general,
(03:32):
is that we've been treating the symptoms of underlying problems instead of actually
giving people the space and the knowledge and the resources to treat those problems
that are causing those symptoms.
And so very, very happy to be able to provide that service in the community
(03:56):
where I grew up in Flagstaff, Arizona,
seeing just amazing treatment responses, as the evidence will show you,
as well as anecdotal stories.
Just about everyone has a friend or
someone they know at this point who's either micro-dosed mushrooms or been to
(04:20):
a ketamine clinic or seen a shaman in New Mexico or South America or has a friend
who did Ibogaine down in Mexico.
So, the word's out. It's official.
It's pretty much the consensus paper that came out just a few months ago now
(04:46):
that ketamine infusions, a series of those,
are not inferior to electroconvulsive therapy, which is long held as the standard
of treatment for treatment-resistant depression.
And I can attest to that. In my training, I saw depressed patients with catatonia,
(05:11):
like no movement, just in basically a...
Locked up state, nonverbal, barely eating, sometimes not even eating,
responding incredibly well to ECT.
And we're not there yet, unfortunately, with ketamine treatments.
(05:34):
And the big part of that is, again, this Western medical model of that potentiated
illness, where the pharmaceutical industry,
insurance industry, and honestly, most agencies and most providers are somewhat
incentivized to keep people ill, keep them on daily medications,
(05:55):
and keep them coming back forever.
I know there's a lot of great providers out there that are also harping on the
benefits of diet and exercise.
I don't want to say diet, of healthy nutrition and physical movement and sense
(06:15):
of community and all those things.
And I always try to impress upon the clientele that I saw at the local community
mental health center the importance of these aspects of treatment.
Unfortunately, when you have 20 to 30-minute appointments and you've only got
so much time, patients are often 10 to 15 minutes late into those appointments being brought in.
(06:43):
And there's just a limited resources
and so the system
really potentiates more of that pill for every problem mentality oh you're depressed
and your serotonin's low well let's help you have more available serotonin with
ssris and then oh those don't work well let's try another one for 12 weeks at goal dosing.
(07:08):
And then let's go to SNRI, selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
Oh, you're still not where you'd like to be? Okay, let's look at augmenting with...
Abilify or Epiprazole. Or let's look at adding a mood stabilizer like Lamotrigine, Lamictal.
(07:29):
And unfortunately, this is what gets hammered into us in our programs as far
as how to manage psychiatric disorders.
There's medications and very, very little information about the importance of a healthy lifestyle.
I like to tell people that come into my clinic that no one needs ketamine,
(07:55):
no one needs an ego dissolution agent.
And I think that's a really important point to belabor, especially when it comes
to all sorts of ego dissolution agents.
I'm a proponent of the school of thought that all ego dissolution agents,
and some people don't like that term, and I think it's fine.
(08:16):
Some people like psychedelics, some people like empathogens,
some people like pathogens.
There's reasons that those terminologies are more favorable and I like ego dissolution agent.
I think your ego is trying to protect you. It was built on purpose and if you
(08:37):
can let those walls down safely, if you can take that mask off safely,
hopefully, then that more authentic version of yourself comes out.
Anyways, the ego dissolution agents in general, no one needs them.
No one absolutely needs ketamine treatment.
Can it be incredibly helpful? Absolutely.
(09:00):
What all ego dissolution agents fall into the category of is a non-specific
amplifier of the human experience.
And so I tell people all the time, no one needs these treatments.
There's a million different ways to be able to get to a healthier, happier space.
In general, those different routes can take decades to work,
(09:24):
if ever, in large part because the trauma is still occurring.
And so I think it's a good segue, since this is our intro episode,
into why I believe that trauma is the only real diagnosis in psychiatry.
(09:46):
I think that everything else is a coping strategy for that trauma,
and trauma is super subjective.
And so one person can see their best friend ever blown up next to them on the
battlefield and not be terribly affected because of genetic factors, resiliency.
And someone else can be called the name once on the schoolyard,
(10:09):
and it can haunt them forever.
It has a large part to do with your empathy, how connected you are to your own
emotionality, as well as the emotionality of those around you,
and the kind of greater collective emotionality.
So evolutionarily, all of this development as far as fluorescent lighting,
big protective house cocoons, enough resources for every member of the family
(10:36):
to have their own room and their own bathroom,
and the elders have their own homes far, far away with nursing care individuals
disconnected from the family unit.
Those resources and the proliferation of those are part of why we aren't doing
(11:00):
so well, in my humble opinion.
So, again, in general, I don't like any diagnoses in psychiatry besides trauma.
And that being said, I do not like PTSD.
I do not like post-traumatic stress disorder. order. It makes people feel damaged.
It makes people feel broken.
(11:20):
It makes people feel like there's no hope, there's no healing.
And that's simply not true.
There's big T's and little T's, big capital T's as far as the world of trauma.
And those are those early and often sexual trauma, you know,
violent war times, rape, big capital bold T's.
(11:40):
And then there's the little italic T's are, you know, they're not as aggressive
of a trauma, but they also are layers of the onions.
And so think of watching that movie with a friend or a loved one,
and the sad part comes on, and you know, oh, and that puppy,
isn't that sad? You look over and...
(12:04):
Asking for validation from that friend or family or
loved one and they say oh you're stupid that's not sad and
that's just like one of those little out invalidations that
really adds up over time and so it
touches on an important point about aces scores i love aces scores it's given
us so much data the adverse childhood experiences scale and we can see so much
(12:28):
bad stuff is associated with bad things happening when you're young.
And that being said, the ACEs score does a great job of showing us what happened
to people that shouldn't have happened, but it doesn't do a great job of showing
us what didn't happen to people that should have.
And so basically, what that's saying and what we see a lot of is you dive into
(12:54):
mental health and wellness or lack thereof,
is that neglect actually has much more of a deleterious effect than abuse oftentimes.
People who are abused, to some extent, appear to have more resilience.
Oftentimes, their abusers, while atrocious, the things that they have subjected
(13:19):
their so-called loved ones to, will oscillate between abusing them and actually
showing them genuine love.
When, on the other hand, when you have someone who is contending with a lot
of neglect, they often aren't just showed anything.
There's no love. There's no abuse.
(13:40):
It's more of that aloof, not caring. And that seems to cause even more damage
oftentimes than that's what I've seen.
That being said, again, it's a very subjective trauma and there's no, hey, I've got it worse.
I have three big T's and you have just three little T's, so you can't say anything.
(14:04):
Again, it goes back to genetic factors so very much in regards to how people
are affected. And so no two people will respond to trauma in the same exact way.
And there's so many factors that we're just scratching the surface on in regards
to those factors that provide resiliency and those factors that make you feel less resilient.
(14:28):
And so you're looking at microbiome, what state that that is in.
So that ties back to nutrition as well as stress level.
There's lots and lots of factors. And so in general, again, no diagnosis is necessary.
(14:48):
Very sought after, in my opinion, besides trauma.
And so I'm not trying to dig for trauma or create trauma that isn't there.
I'm just trying to help people recognize that what they experienced as trauma is valid.
It's obviously affecting them. And that's what I want to give them space to process through.
(15:10):
And that's what we see more of than anything else with the ketamine treatments.
You know, the best treatment protocol calls for that series of six treatments
over a period of three weeks or at least a few days in between in combination
with some sort of integration therapy,
ideally one to two days after one of their treatments, depending on how you
(15:32):
go about dosing and how you go about your treatment modality.
And so the traumas that everyone has to contend with are of three main types.
And so the main first trauma that I like to give space for and talk about and,
(15:53):
you know, provide a lot of validation for is one's own historical trauma.
And so historical trauma accounts for basically every catecholamine or stressor
exposure that a person has had since their parents' two zygotes first met.
So the egg and the sperm, all the stress your mom had during pregnancy.
(16:15):
Your childbirth, everything before you started forming concrete memories,
and everything that happened to you since that point to where you're at now.
Now, second type of trauma, and we're just scratching the surface on the science of this.
Super interesting stuff, though, about the mice and the rose water and the trauma paper.
That was a really good one where they showed some mice or rats that were.
(16:41):
Traumatized quite a bit and exposed to rose water prior to and during some of that traumatization.
And then they stopped traumatizing them. They let them procreate.
And then multiple layers beyond that in the gene pool, they didn't expose any
of their offspring, I think until five lines later of their kids, kids, kids, kids.
(17:04):
Did they show these mice some more rose water?
And then And what they saw is those mice, to some extent, went into a fight,
flight, or freeze state right there.
And so very interesting, and it's held into our genetics. So second type of
trauma is epigenetics or intergenerational.
Basically, we know that at least five generations behind us,
(17:25):
the trauma that our great-great-great-grandparents went through prior to procreating
mutated their DNA at least enough to pass on increased hypervigilance to us.
So which is a good thing if we're
in a township surrounded by saber-toothed tigers or if we're just trying to
exist in a chaotic family home unit but not necessarily a great thing if you're
(17:48):
trying to exist in a fairly healthy sustainable non-chaotic environment can
often lead to more more disruptions,
and more just chaos feelings all the time that cause more alienation of relationships
and just kind of that chronic fight-fighter-free state.
(18:11):
Third type of trauma, and this is honestly what pushes people back through our
doors more than anything else, is what I term as societal trauma.
So in general, we know that living in a patriarchal,
capitalistic society with an economy of
scale and a largely disconnected family unit
(18:32):
pretty bad for our brains and that is the
environment that we exist in for the most part so we're all layers of those
three types of trauma in layers of onions and again i don't like ptsd i don't
like post-traumatic stress disorder i like ptsi post-traumatic stress injury
and we're all layers years of those.
(18:53):
And so that being said, I'd like to say, you know, all of these traumas are
healable to some extent.
So given the right setting and circumstances, as well as sustainability,
those traumas can all be healed.
We always think of genetic modifications and mutations as negative things, or tend to.
(19:14):
That being said, we can actually restructure our DNA, our mRNA,
and other kind of portions of ourselves.
Positive changes. And that's what we see.
One thing that's been really cool that I've seen anecdotally in our clinic is
(19:35):
a lot of people with chronic inflammatory type disorders improve over time.
And so like two to six months down the road after an induction series,
we see a lot of people with autoimmune disorders, chronic inflammatory disorders.
We see those inflammatory biomarkers go down in lab testing.
(19:56):
And we see basically what happens is you think of the lion that catches the gazelle, right?
And the gazelle goes into this freeze state, like, oh, I got me.
And then the lion's like, oh, cool, I got my prey. And it starts,
you know, preening himself for herself and just feeling pretty proud.
And then gazelle looks over, it looks like it's got an opportunity,
(20:18):
pops up, takes off running.
And then, you know, three to five miles down the road, it's got this shutter,
this biological shutter, this release.
And that's what we're seeing in the ketamine infusions.
I should tell people, these will give you what you need, not necessarily what you want.
And these feelings won't surface unless they're safe to surface.
(20:42):
So we see a lot of cathartic crying, that release. I see a lot of people look
a lot lighter, be able to dump a lot of stuff out as far as emotional baggage
that they've been holding on to for a long time.
With traditional psychiatry, again, treating those symptoms,
myself and a growing number of psychiatric providers, you know,
(21:03):
that depression, that anxiety, that hypervigilance, that substance use disorder. order.
Again, those are all coping strategies for trauma.
Depression, you're more likely to be exposed to less trauma in general because
you're kind of withdrawing yourself from the pack and so thereby less likely
(21:25):
to be exposed to any potentially traumatizing stimuli.
Anxiety, hypervigilance, you're more quick to react and you're more quick to
be able to get away from something that's potentially traumatizing.
Substance use disorders, histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality
disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, I like to call those bipolar light.
(21:47):
Basically, you're got at a very extreme reaction to keep further trauma that
has happened to you in the past from occurring.
I like to tell people to get to the chair when I talk to them for their initial
consultation, hey, no regerts, right?
Not even one letter. I don't even, it's everything that you did got you to the
(22:07):
point where you're at right now.
So thank yourself, pat yourself on the back.
Yeah, it was a long, hard road and you're here now. It's a testament to your resiliency.
And it's really important to recognize that. A lot of people just listening
to this right now, like honestly, take a stop, take a deep breath.
You did it. You're here. Nice work. Really, really good job.
(22:32):
Pat yourself on the back. You're loved.
You deserve it. And you deserve for things to be better.
And you're capable. You're capable of so much. You're capable of doing so many great things.
You're capable of using those gifts from your past to help forge ahead,
(22:55):
to hone the true version of you that you were designed to be.
And now's your time. Now's your time to move forward and do what you need to do.
And again, there's a lot of ways to get there. I have a whole slew of different
tactics and things that I like to help people with in regards to getting there faster.
(23:21):
And just knowing we're all works in progress, right?
I like to zoom out and tell you, hey, look at you five-year stock market graph, right?
When you zoom out, man, that thing looks great.
Like you're onwards and upwards and everything's good and you're doing the work and it's paying off.
You zoom in man or woman
(23:43):
or whatnot and you see
pretty tumultuous stuff right it's
just bumps in the road there's a big old fall off again there's you know all
these things that can make it feel like you're really falling off track and
really you're on your way you're onwards and upwards you're listening to this
(24:05):
you're working on yourself you're doing everything you need to be doing.
You're right where you need to be doing it.
And be proud of yourself. I'm excited for you. This is just the beginning. It always is.
And a good friend, I always like his to new beginnings, right?
And I also like that Buddha saying that, you know, looking at an old picture
(24:31):
of yourself, that's one of the main versions of human suffering,
thinking you're the same person.
You have the capacity to be a different person that walks out of the room that
you're in than who walked into that room.
You always have the capacity to redesign yourself and where you're going and where you are.
(24:55):
I tell my kids, you know, 10% of this world is what happens to you,
and 90% is how you respond to that.
And so I'm excited you're here. Thanks for listening. This is just the first episode.
I think the next episode will be what I like to call the intrinsic response methodology.
(25:18):
And it's my favorite way of helping people help themselves. cells.
And so we'll talk more about that. This was Casey Dubrovik and the Revitalize,
Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic, reophah.com,
R-E-O-P-H-A.com.
(25:40):
And come check us out. I'd love to hear from you.
Post any comments you have. And if you get a chance to leave us a review,
we'd appreciate it. And if you think there's things we can improve upon,
please let us know that too.
And thanks for listening and make it a great day.
All right, good evening and welcome to Mental Wealth.
What is Mental Wealth?
Well, Mental Wealth is that feeling that you have when things are going well in your brain.
I, as a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, feel that Mental Wealth
(00:25):
is so paramount for all of us to get to that point.
And it's important to recognize that that point oscillates. I need direction in this podcast.
So let's start with Welcome, Welcome. This is the Mental Wealth Podcast.
(00:45):
I'm your host, Casey Dubrovik. I am the owner and operator of Revitalize,
Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic, previously known as Revitalize Ketamine Clinic.
There has been a bit of a crackdown on the usage of the terminology of ketamine,
(01:07):
especially in contact via online,
like Twilio, that sort of And so
as the impetus of that
crackdown and some other clinic owners finding
that they can no longer utilize the Twilio and other service providers that
(01:32):
provide that online texting service with any sort of nomenclature referencing
ketamine and other psychedelics.
And so that's why we switched to Revitalize, Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic,
which I think does a better job of really streamlining what we're trying to do and offer.
(01:55):
So as a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, I love my title,
by the way, that mental health is built right in there.
I've been in health care since 2004. I've been around the block in that regard.
I worked in ICU, the intensive care unit, as well as the CV ICU,
(02:16):
the cardiovascular intensive care unit, pre-op and PACU areas.
Is. I was a registered nurse while I was continuing my education to be a nurse
practitioner who is board certified in psychiatry.
And then I went on in my training to train in electroconvulsive therapy,
as well as the inpatient outpatient unit of my own local hospital system,
(02:43):
Northern Arizona Health Care's mental health system under one of my favorite mentors.
Jay Collier, who visited our clinic and said, you know, the evidence is in and
ketamine infusions and treatments are the future.
And that's where we need to be trending in psychiatry and lends a a lot of credence
(03:08):
to the belief that I have that psychedelics and ego dissolution agents,
similar to ketamine, really allow for the treatment of underlying problems that
are causing those symptoms.
So that's been a big issue for a long time in psychiatry and the Western medical model in general,
(03:32):
is that we've been treating the symptoms of underlying problems instead of actually
giving people the space and the knowledge and the resources to treat those problems
that are causing those symptoms.
And so very, very happy to be able to provide that service in the community
(03:56):
where I grew up in Flagstaff, Arizona,
seeing just amazing treatment responses, as the evidence will show you,
as well as anecdotal stories.
Just about everyone has a friend or
someone they know at this point who's either micro-dosed mushrooms or been to
(04:20):
a ketamine clinic or seen a shaman in New Mexico or South America or has a friend
who did Ibogaine down in Mexico.
So, the word's out. It's official.
It's pretty much the consensus paper that came out just a few months ago now
(04:46):
that ketamine infusions, a series of those,
are not inferior to electroconvulsive therapy, which is long held as the standard
of treatment for treatment-resistant depression.
And I can attest to that. In my training, I saw depressed patients with catatonia,
(05:11):
like no movement, just in basically a...
Locked up state, nonverbal, barely eating, sometimes not even eating,
responding incredibly well to ECT.
And we're not there yet, unfortunately, with ketamine treatments.
(05:34):
And the big part of that is, again, this Western medical model of that potentiated
illness, where the pharmaceutical industry,
insurance industry, and honestly, most agencies and most providers are somewhat
incentivized to keep people ill, keep them on daily medications,
(05:55):
and keep them coming back forever.
I know there's a lot of great providers out there that are also harping on the
benefits of diet and exercise.
I don't want to say diet, of healthy nutrition and physical movement and sense
(06:15):
of community and all those things.
And I always try to impress upon the clientele that I saw at the local community
mental health center the importance of these aspects of treatment.
Unfortunately, when you have 20 to 30-minute appointments and you've only got
so much time, patients are often 10 to 15 minutes late into those appointments being brought in.
(06:43):
And there's just a limited resources
and so the system
really potentiates more of that pill for every problem mentality oh you're depressed
and your serotonin's low well let's help you have more available serotonin with
ssris and then oh those don't work well let's try another one for 12 weeks at goal dosing.
(07:08):
And then let's go to SNRI, selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
Oh, you're still not where you'd like to be? Okay, let's look at augmenting with...
Abilify or Epiprazole. Or let's look at adding a mood stabilizer like Lamotrigine, Lamictal.
(07:29):
And unfortunately, this is what gets hammered into us in our programs as far
as how to manage psychiatric disorders.
There's medications and very, very little information about the importance of a healthy lifestyle.
I like to tell people that come into my clinic that no one needs ketamine,
(07:55):
no one needs an ego dissolution agent.
And I think that's a really important point to belabor, especially when it comes
to all sorts of ego dissolution agents.
I'm a proponent of the school of thought that all ego dissolution agents,
and some people don't like that term, and I think it's fine.
(08:16):
Some people like psychedelics, some people like empathogens,
some people like pathogens.
There's reasons that those terminologies are more favorable and I like ego dissolution agent.
I think your ego is trying to protect you. It was built on purpose and if you
(08:37):
can let those walls down safely, if you can take that mask off safely,
hopefully, then that more authentic version of yourself comes out.
Anyways, the ego dissolution agents in general, no one needs them.
No one absolutely needs ketamine treatment.
Can it be incredibly helpful? Absolutely.
(09:00):
What all ego dissolution agents fall into the category of is a non-specific
amplifier of the human experience.
And so I tell people all the time, no one needs these treatments.
There's a million different ways to be able to get to a healthier, happier space.
In general, those different routes can take decades to work,
(09:24):
if ever, in large part because the trauma is still occurring.
And so I think it's a good segue, since this is our intro episode,
into why I believe that trauma is the only real diagnosis in psychiatry.
(09:46):
I think that everything else is a coping strategy for that trauma,
and trauma is super subjective.
And so one person can see their best friend ever blown up next to them on the
battlefield and not be terribly affected because of genetic factors, resiliency.
And someone else can be called the name once on the schoolyard,
(10:09):
and it can haunt them forever.
It has a large part to do with your empathy, how connected you are to your own
emotionality, as well as the emotionality of those around you,
and the kind of greater collective emotionality.
So evolutionarily, all of this development as far as fluorescent lighting,
big protective house cocoons, enough resources for every member of the family
(10:36):
to have their own room and their own bathroom,
and the elders have their own homes far, far away with nursing care individuals
disconnected from the family unit.
Those resources and the proliferation of those are part of why we aren't doing
(11:00):
so well, in my humble opinion.
So, again, in general, I don't like any diagnoses in psychiatry besides trauma.
And that being said, I do not like PTSD.
I do not like post-traumatic stress disorder. order. It makes people feel damaged.
It makes people feel broken.
(11:20):
It makes people feel like there's no hope, there's no healing.
And that's simply not true.
There's big T's and little T's, big capital T's as far as the world of trauma.
And those are those early and often sexual trauma, you know,
violent war times, rape, big capital bold T's.
(11:40):
And then there's the little italic T's are, you know, they're not as aggressive
of a trauma, but they also are layers of the onions.
And so think of watching that movie with a friend or a loved one,
and the sad part comes on, and you know, oh, and that puppy,
isn't that sad? You look over and...
(12:04):
Asking for validation from that friend or family or
loved one and they say oh you're stupid that's not sad and
that's just like one of those little out invalidations that
really adds up over time and so it
touches on an important point about aces scores i love aces scores it's given
us so much data the adverse childhood experiences scale and we can see so much
(12:28):
bad stuff is associated with bad things happening when you're young.
And that being said, the ACEs score does a great job of showing us what happened
to people that shouldn't have happened, but it doesn't do a great job of showing
us what didn't happen to people that should have.
And so basically, what that's saying and what we see a lot of is you dive into
(12:54):
mental health and wellness or lack thereof,
is that neglect actually has much more of a deleterious effect than abuse oftentimes.
People who are abused, to some extent, appear to have more resilience.
Oftentimes, their abusers, while atrocious, the things that they have subjected
(13:19):
their so-called loved ones to, will oscillate between abusing them and actually
showing them genuine love.
When, on the other hand, when you have someone who is contending with a lot
of neglect, they often aren't just showed anything.
There's no love. There's no abuse.
(13:40):
It's more of that aloof, not caring. And that seems to cause even more damage
oftentimes than that's what I've seen.
That being said, again, it's a very subjective trauma and there's no, hey, I've got it worse.
I have three big T's and you have just three little T's, so you can't say anything.
(14:04):
Again, it goes back to genetic factors so very much in regards to how people
are affected. And so no two people will respond to trauma in the same exact way.
And there's so many factors that we're just scratching the surface on in regards
to those factors that provide resiliency and those factors that make you feel less resilient.
(14:28):
And so you're looking at microbiome, what state that that is in.
So that ties back to nutrition as well as stress level.
There's lots and lots of factors. And so in general, again, no diagnosis is necessary.
(14:48):
Very sought after, in my opinion, besides trauma.
And so I'm not trying to dig for trauma or create trauma that isn't there.
I'm just trying to help people recognize that what they experienced as trauma is valid.
It's obviously affecting them. And that's what I want to give them space to process through.
(15:10):
And that's what we see more of than anything else with the ketamine treatments.
You know, the best treatment protocol calls for that series of six treatments
over a period of three weeks or at least a few days in between in combination
with some sort of integration therapy,
ideally one to two days after one of their treatments, depending on how you
(15:32):
go about dosing and how you go about your treatment modality.
And so the traumas that everyone has to contend with are of three main types.
And so the main first trauma that I like to give space for and talk about and,
(15:53):
you know, provide a lot of validation for is one's own historical trauma.
And so historical trauma accounts for basically every catecholamine or stressor
exposure that a person has had since their parents' two zygotes first met.
So the egg and the sperm, all the stress your mom had during pregnancy.
(16:15):
Your childbirth, everything before you started forming concrete memories,
and everything that happened to you since that point to where you're at now.
Now, second type of trauma, and we're just scratching the surface on the science of this.
Super interesting stuff, though, about the mice and the rose water and the trauma paper.
That was a really good one where they showed some mice or rats that were.
(16:41):
Traumatized quite a bit and exposed to rose water prior to and during some of that traumatization.
And then they stopped traumatizing them. They let them procreate.
And then multiple layers beyond that in the gene pool, they didn't expose any
of their offspring, I think until five lines later of their kids, kids, kids, kids.
(17:04):
Did they show these mice some more rose water?
And then And what they saw is those mice, to some extent, went into a fight,
flight, or freeze state right there.
And so very interesting, and it's held into our genetics. So second type of
trauma is epigenetics or intergenerational.
Basically, we know that at least five generations behind us,
(17:25):
the trauma that our great-great-great-grandparents went through prior to procreating
mutated their DNA at least enough to pass on increased hypervigilance to us.
So which is a good thing if we're
in a township surrounded by saber-toothed tigers or if we're just trying to
exist in a chaotic family home unit but not necessarily a great thing if you're
(17:48):
trying to exist in a fairly healthy sustainable non-chaotic environment can
often lead to more more disruptions,
and more just chaos feelings all the time that cause more alienation of relationships
and just kind of that chronic fight-fighter-free state.
(18:11):
Third type of trauma, and this is honestly what pushes people back through our
doors more than anything else, is what I term as societal trauma.
So in general, we know that living in a patriarchal,
capitalistic society with an economy of
scale and a largely disconnected family unit
(18:32):
pretty bad for our brains and that is the
environment that we exist in for the most part so we're all layers of those
three types of trauma in layers of onions and again i don't like ptsd i don't
like post-traumatic stress disorder i like ptsi post-traumatic stress injury
and we're all layers years of those.
(18:53):
And so that being said, I'd like to say, you know, all of these traumas are
healable to some extent.
So given the right setting and circumstances, as well as sustainability,
those traumas can all be healed.
We always think of genetic modifications and mutations as negative things, or tend to.
(19:14):
That being said, we can actually restructure our DNA, our mRNA,
and other kind of portions of ourselves.
Positive changes. And that's what we see.
One thing that's been really cool that I've seen anecdotally in our clinic is
(19:35):
a lot of people with chronic inflammatory type disorders improve over time.
And so like two to six months down the road after an induction series,
we see a lot of people with autoimmune disorders, chronic inflammatory disorders.
We see those inflammatory biomarkers go down in lab testing.
(19:56):
And we see basically what happens is you think of the lion that catches the gazelle, right?
And the gazelle goes into this freeze state, like, oh, I got me.
And then the lion's like, oh, cool, I got my prey. And it starts,
you know, preening himself for herself and just feeling pretty proud.
And then gazelle looks over, it looks like it's got an opportunity,
(20:18):
pops up, takes off running.
And then, you know, three to five miles down the road, it's got this shutter,
this biological shutter, this release.
And that's what we're seeing in the ketamine infusions.
I should tell people, these will give you what you need, not necessarily what you want.
And these feelings won't surface unless they're safe to surface.
(20:42):
So we see a lot of cathartic crying, that release. I see a lot of people look
a lot lighter, be able to dump a lot of stuff out as far as emotional baggage
that they've been holding on to for a long time.
With traditional psychiatry, again, treating those symptoms,
myself and a growing number of psychiatric providers, you know,
(21:03):
that depression, that anxiety, that hypervigilance, that substance use disorder. order.
Again, those are all coping strategies for trauma.
Depression, you're more likely to be exposed to less trauma in general because
you're kind of withdrawing yourself from the pack and so thereby less likely
(21:25):
to be exposed to any potentially traumatizing stimuli.
Anxiety, hypervigilance, you're more quick to react and you're more quick to
be able to get away from something that's potentially traumatizing.
Substance use disorders, histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality
disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, I like to call those bipolar light.
(21:47):
Basically, you're got at a very extreme reaction to keep further trauma that
has happened to you in the past from occurring.
I like to tell people to get to the chair when I talk to them for their initial
consultation, hey, no regerts, right?
Not even one letter. I don't even, it's everything that you did got you to the
(22:07):
point where you're at right now.
So thank yourself, pat yourself on the back.
Yeah, it was a long, hard road and you're here now. It's a testament to your resiliency.
And it's really important to recognize that. A lot of people just listening
to this right now, like honestly, take a stop, take a deep breath.
You did it. You're here. Nice work. Really, really good job.
(22:32):
Pat yourself on the back. You're loved.
You deserve it. And you deserve for things to be better.
And you're capable. You're capable of so much. You're capable of doing so many great things.
You're capable of using those gifts from your past to help forge ahead,
(22:55):
to hone the true version of you that you were designed to be.
And now's your time. Now's your time to move forward and do what you need to do.
And again, there's a lot of ways to get there. I have a whole slew of different
tactics and things that I like to help people with in regards to getting there faster.
(23:21):
And just knowing we're all works in progress, right?
I like to zoom out and tell you, hey, look at you five-year stock market graph, right?
When you zoom out, man, that thing looks great.
Like you're onwards and upwards and everything's good and you're doing the work and it's paying off.
You zoom in man or woman
(23:43):
or whatnot and you see
pretty tumultuous stuff right it's
just bumps in the road there's a big old fall off again there's you know all
these things that can make it feel like you're really falling off track and
really you're on your way you're onwards and upwards you're listening to this
(24:05):
you're working on yourself you're doing everything you need to be doing.
You're right where you need to be doing it.
And be proud of yourself. I'm excited for you. This is just the beginning. It always is.
And a good friend, I always like his to new beginnings, right?
And I also like that Buddha saying that, you know, looking at an old picture
(24:31):
of yourself, that's one of the main versions of human suffering,
thinking you're the same person.
You have the capacity to be a different person that walks out of the room that
you're in than who walked into that room.
You always have the capacity to redesign yourself and where you're going and where you are.
(24:55):
I tell my kids, you know, 10% of this world is what happens to you,
and 90% is how you respond to that.
And so I'm excited you're here. Thanks for listening. This is just the first episode.
I think the next episode will be what I like to call the intrinsic response methodology.
(25:18):
And it's my favorite way of helping people help themselves. cells.
And so we'll talk more about that. This was Casey Dubrovik and the Revitalize,
Optimize, and Harmonize Clinic, reophah.com,
R-E-O-P-H-A.com.
(25:40):
And come check us out. I'd love to hear from you.
Post any comments you have. And if you get a chance to leave us a review,
we'd appreciate it. And if you think there's things we can improve upon,
please let us know that too.
And thanks for listening and make it a great day.
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