Join host Casey Dubravcic, a board-certified Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner, as he sits down with Abigail, a registered nurse at Revitalize Ketamine Clinic and Rocked Wellness Bar. In this episode, they delve into their personal journeys, the impact of ego dissolution on growth, Kelly Brogan’s work, and the importance of women’s empowerment, reconnecting with the earth, movement as medicine, freedom of expression, yoga nidra and some offerings at ROHCT Wellness bar and Revitalize Ketamine Clinic.
Discover how they aim to make the world a better place through innovative therapies and community-building. From ketamine treatments to yoga nidra and women's embodiment classes, learn about the various ways they are helping individuals achieve holistic wellness. Learn what is 'Better than Sex', thanks to the Sedona Crew; Stu Zee and more.
Don't miss this enlightening conversation filled with insights on healing, self-discovery, plugging into your radical authenticity and the power of community. Your path to mental wealth begins here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hello, and welcome to another Mental Wealth Moves podcast.
I'm your host, Casey Dubrovik, Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner, board certified.
I'm also the owner and operator of Revitalized Ketamine Clinics and Rocked Wellness Bar.
I'm also the co-founder of Epic Biosciences. Thanks for joining us today. day.
(00:28):
So for the podcast we've got for you today, myself and Abigail,
our registered nurse at Revitalize and Rocked Wellness Bar, we sit down and
chat a bunch about many different topics.
We talk about our origin story.
We talk about Kelly Brogan. We talk about women's empowerment.
(00:52):
We talk about divine sexuality.
We talk about how to make the world a better place. It's an interesting conversation.
I hope that you enjoy it. If you have any questions, comments,
concerns, please put them in the comment box.
We will try to answer each one of those. Thank you.
You. All right, Abigail. Yay, we made it. We've been talking about doing this for a long time.
(01:18):
I'm glad to have you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
So I'm Casey Dubrovic. I'm the owner and operator of Revitalized Ketamine Clinic
and also Rocked Wellness Bar.
Revitalize, optimize, and harmonize clinic and therapeutics. So excited to be here.
We've been talking about out doing this for a long time. You and I's kind of
(01:40):
intro is a pretty interesting story.
Like I love, you want to tell it?
Introduce yourself and tell the story. Sure. I'm Abigail and I am a nurse at
Revitalize Ketamine Clinic. I've been a nurse,
for 12 years now and i reached out to you because i wanted to work at revitalize
(02:02):
at the clinic and then didn't know about rocked but just this is like how i
live and this is yeah well you got i felt like you were when you called you were interviewing me,
yeah so i was very intentional about
i knew i wanted to work with psychedelics and
(02:23):
support people in that way but I had already
interviewed a bunch of ketamine clinics in
the west coast and didn't really like their model or how they saw health and
wellness and so when I talked to you the fact that you had such an emphasis
on like an individual's journey in healing was really important to me and I
(02:46):
moved to Sedona and I'm here working at ROPT.
Yeah awesome yeah you're You're so awesome. I appreciate you.
Yeah. Cause you were working at that big ketamine clinic. What was the name of the place?
Um, I was working at boost in Idaho. Yeah. And the, the creator of that,
she said she was next level.
She was doing like NAD infusions in addition to like, I think some of the nerve
(03:08):
block components as well. Yeah.
I would have stayed there, but she took a break from practicing to do her own killing.
And so I was looking for a job that was being really, really specific about where I wanted to work.
Yeah. Well, we're super glad you landed with us and, you know,
I'm super excited to have you here at Rock as well.
(03:29):
I think your unique skill set really fits well with what we're trying to create here.
You know, I always tell people with the ketamine treatments and you and I are
very intentional with that in that,
You know, it's incredibly valuable and it's much more important about what you do afterwards.
And so, you know, I always tell people when I see them for my initial consultation,
(03:53):
we always try to qualify people, make sure they're at a good place to be able
to do the treatments that no one needs.
It's not great for business, but I tell people, you know, straight up,
no one needs ketamine. No one needs an ego dissolution agent.
There's a million other ways to get to out of your head space.
And unfortunately, our society isn't very conducive to mental wellness in large part.
And so, you know, there's a million other ways to get to healthy red space.
(04:15):
And that's what we're trying to create here at Rocked is that million other
ways that human potentiation.
And I'm really, you know, part of that is getting back to our roots.
You know, I feel like with what we're creating here, it's, it's synonymous with
what we're seeing in Western medicine in that we're proving past wisdom with science.
And so like the vibrational frequencies, like we're seeing that kind of work
(04:40):
come out and, you know, we're doing sound healing work here at rock.
That was something I wanted to talk to you about. I had a client come through
RKC revitalized ketamine clinic.
And he said, this was like the first time that he had any sort of ego dissolution agent.
And he was really out of his own body. And it wasn't the first time he was out of his own body.
He had actually gotten out of his own body doing a
(05:02):
group sound healing where people they rotated
there was i think five or six individuals and so
you would rotate between being at one of
the person's appendages like head legs and arms and everyone would be working
a different sound bowl of a different frequency kind of all around you and then
so i want to do that here i'm super excited so many cool things that we're creating
(05:26):
And so you just gave me an IV earlier. I feel energized.
There's always so much to do as an entrepreneur, as you know,
because you work with Kelly Brogan's program.
And Dr. Kelly Brogan, she's so brilliant. And I love her backstory.
Do you want to say a little bit about where you come from with that?
(05:47):
Kelly Bruggen was a traditionally trained psychiatrist at Yale,
I believe, and focused on helping women come start antipsychotic,
antidepressive medications.
And then through her own kind of health journey, realized that she wanted to
help women come off of those medications.
(06:07):
And she started doing that in her practice and created a whole program around
nutrition and lifestyle and nutrition.
Really a strong container for people to get to know themselves.
I think it is more than a diet and it's more of a rite of passage.
(06:32):
And so in that kind of container, people are able to show up for themselves
in ways that we don't show up for ourselves, maybe outside of a container.
And so I coach through her program and have helped and guided people through that.
And yet all of this stuff that I do or talk about or help people through, I do myself.
(06:59):
And so it's really beautiful to see what people can walk themselves through
on the other side when they trust their intuition and when they start like looking within for answers,
not that like we don't need support or that we need to do things alone.
I think it's more knowing what works for you and really tuning into your guidance
(07:26):
and then asking for the support and getting the support you need as you like
put your foot in front of the other.
Right. Yeah. Really meeting people where they are. I think that's,
that's super beautiful and important, you know, for us to really get the most
out of any program, being able to.
(07:46):
Like we were talking about that this or i was talking about that
with misha one of the therapists we're talking about you know
it's such a intangible term kind of wellness in
general right like because wellness is very different for different people i
think yeah there's you know kind of a human design element where you can get
people to kind of the best versions of themselves stage wise and wellness for
(08:09):
some people might be going to mcdonald's and getting the small size versus the extra large size,
you know, or switching out, you know, for half Kool-Aid and half water.
And so really, you know, those baby steps are more maintainable.
And, and that's where you really get the lifestyle shifts.
And so I love what you're doing. And I love Kelly Brogan's story,
(08:31):
her backstory, where she was dealing with like all this chronic inflammation and illness.
And she went down, you know, the normal rabbit holes where she's getting allergy tests and doing,
you know, a myriad of blood tests and different ingesting different chemicals
and drugs and everything,
you know, that's like traditional psychiatry is so soul crushing in that way,
(08:55):
where you're just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks.
Right. And, you know, you look at any psychiatric textbook, and it's like,
you know, 45 pages of how SSRIs work, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
And then there's like a paragraph, alternative modalities, you know,
and it's, it's soul crushing in some ways, especially coming at it from a holistic
(09:18):
practitioner standpoint.
You know, I always say like, you think of mood super basically as a waveform
where you've got like the depression and hedonia that I don't care is at the bottom.
And then that anxiety, hypervigilance up top, you know, and then people with
trauma, they bounce back and forth a lot quicker between those two.
And pretty much across the board, like any medication I'd ever prescribed,
(09:39):
the SSRIs, the SNRIs, the mood stabilizers, the antipsychotics,
the benzodiazepines, the hypnotics, about 10% to 30% effective long term.
And they're just kind of squishing that waveform.
So people may be less depressed, may be less anxious, may be less mobility,
may be less suicidality. In general, kind of less everything.
And, you know, in my opinion, in a growing number of psychiatric providers.
(10:01):
Those are your psyche's cries for help, right?
Like, hey, what we're doing isn't working. and so that's why
i'm so passionate about what we do at revitalize and
what we're doing here too at rock is you know
let's let's help you get to that root cause let's help you
become that best version of yourself let's help you
shed those things i really like that old buddhist saying where
(10:22):
one of the biggest forms of human suffering is looking
at an old photo of yourself and thinking you're the same person and
you have that capacity to be a completely different
human being that walks off camera than walked in camera
you go both ways right yeah and
i think what you said too like symptoms like
i don't see symptoms as a problem i i just see them as our body trying to communicate
(10:46):
with us and that we're just misunderstanding or trying to like go to war on
our bodies with medications or with treatments.
And again, this kind of model is not for everyone, but that if you do choose
to look at your symptoms as more of like a message,
(11:08):
then there's other ways, like through
diet and lifestyle and other kind of alternative therapies like cold plunge
and sauna and community and dancing that you really can totally change your
life and your symptoms will resolve and they will heal.
(11:29):
And I think kind of that model where you're like broken and you can't be fixed,
you need a pill to fix your problem is so disempowering.
And in Vital Mind Reset, the program that I help guide people through.
It's bringing that power back to yourself and trusting that you can heal yourself
(11:52):
and also just starting to look at your body in a different way and seeing like,
oh, this is just my body talking to me.
This is just something that needs to be addressed and I need to listen or need
to come at it from a different angle as opposed to like,
I need to kill or like destroy this symptom.
(12:15):
Gym right yeah no i i love that
i love all that it's like um you know what i like
to say is that you need to feel it to heal it right and
so like those are your your body your psyche
is like hey like yeah like literally i'm crying
for help like don't mask this down like
let's go through that together let's integrate let's put
(12:36):
those pieces together that that i always like to
say there's no such thing as good and bad human emotion right there's
only bad human reaction to that emotion right and
so that's where we get in trouble well and
like feeling like if i'm to tell you just like oh you just have to feel it like
like because of the way we've been conditioned and raised it can be really scary
(13:01):
and hard to feel it yeah but knowing that on the other side of that feeling.
There's like relief right yeah it
i think they've like studied it but like
i'm feeling less if you really feel it for like 90
seconds like you're not going to be
(13:21):
stuck in the feeling and
i think that's so many i can speak from my own experience that like i the more
i try not to feel it the louder it gets right and then i can say that too i
get to a point where it's not an option anymore I feel it and because I have
kind of been doing this kind of alternative.
(13:44):
Healing or just using, um,
more ancient kind of technologies now i
feel it and it lasts like 90 seconds and
i move on with my life and then you know
i can do what i want to do or just show up in a way that i wasn't able to show
up before because i was trying to suppress or avoid or just like talk my way
(14:07):
out of something that just not needed to be felt right yeah exactly you know
bessel vandercock's work the body keeps
the score, right? I don't recommend people read that book.
I do recommend they understand the footnotes. It can just be so activating.
And you're just saying so much truth. A good buddy of mine said it,
where you see overlap is where you see the truth.
(14:28):
There's so many ways to say the same thing.
And everyone needs it to be told slightly different. Or like hear it 10 times. Yeah. A hundred.
A thousand. Yeah, whatever. I think I've been hearing, I need to read that Four
Agreements book for like 20 plus years until I read it like four years ago.
And what a game changer, you know, some of those ways of hearing.
(14:52):
And it took me probably like as long to get through the first five pages as
it did through the rest of the book, just because of his writing style.
Don Miguel Ruiz is next level for sure.
So we touched a little bit on, you know, our backgrounds.
Backgrounds i've been in traditional health care since 2004 and
then opened revitalized ketamine clinic in 2021 i
(15:14):
guess i'm i didn't touch on too much on my background because now i'm going
to it but you touched on some of yours and you
know some of our ethos what got us here i think it bears reiterating you know
why revitalize ketamine clinic why revitalize optimize and harmonize clinic
and therapeutics rocked and get rocked in a good way right you're gonna rock
(15:35):
it just different ways to pronounce it, make it fun, right?
I think rocked is rocked wellness bar is really about widening that funnel.
Because revitalized ketamine clinic, not everyone's ready for ketamine,
or frankly, would benefit from it.
Like there's a place for daily medications for people that need to be able to
get that one foot in front of the other so that they can go to therapy so they
(15:57):
can get there, get out the door,
you know, and when they're ready, like, Like there are so many wonderful modalities,
next level modalities available now.
And, you know, we're the harbingers of some of that with what we're doing.
And so I'm super excited about all that. I know you offering a yoga nidra class
tonight in just about an hour. Hopefully we get that nice and full.
(16:18):
Tell me a little about yoga nidra, what you know about. I love yoga nidra.
So yoga nidra, it means like sleep yoga. and the idea is to bring you into a
hypnotic hypnagogic state. And, and.
You're, so I start the class with just some gentle stretches and movements,
(16:40):
and then you're laying on your back with pillows and props if you choose,
or just flat on the floor.
And you're guided to bring your awareness to different parts of the body.
And it's normally alternating between right and left.
And you're starting at one point moving your way down.
And then this lasts about like 30 to 45 minutes so you're really in like a dream
(17:06):
sleep-like state and that state has been studied and it is 30 minutes of yoga
nidra is equivalent to four hours of deep sleep and so,
again like all these things that i teach all these things that i am certified
in i use Yeah, you practice on your feet.
And like I all
(17:29):
of these things I use for myself and they have helped me in just like they've
saved my life right like or they've helped me to not take medication or not
do things that I didn't want to do so I know how beneficial they are and.
Yoga nidra is just giving rest to the body and.
(17:54):
You know we're busy like we do a
lot and sometimes people are sleeping for eight
hours but they're not feeling restored they're not getting
into a dreamlike state and so yoga nidra is
a way to do that and have someone
guiding you it also connects it also connects
you to your subconscious so different images
(18:15):
can come up and it's just so beautiful
and it's just a simple practice where
you just lay well there's so much science yeah and
you know this was it's an ancient yogic
tradition so it's like you
said these ancient technologies are now
(18:35):
yeah cutting edge but it's
been around for thousands and thousands of years
and the yogis knew this way back
when without all the scans and all that so that's
yoga nidra and whether you come to class
in person or you download a
(18:57):
yoga nidra track at home you
can access this anywhere so there was a time where i was working in new york
city as a nurse and i had an hour lunch break but i would do yoga nidra for
30 minutes of my hour lunch break and just like found a quiet room and was the
crazy person laying on the floor.
(19:17):
But I was like, this is what I need. And so I do believe when you tune into.
Your true self like it will
let you know what you need and if you're feeling like
you need your yoga nidra we're here yeah
absolutely every sunday night that every else working from 5 to 6 p.m we're
(19:37):
offering yoga nidra here and i'm just you know so supportive and interested
in those modalities you know i love that it's like tying in the left and the
right like bilateral you know It mimics a lot of what people are doing with EMDR,
eye movement, desensitization, and reprocessing. I'm trained in that.
And you can use theratappers, which is like a haptic feedback thing.
(20:00):
And they just tap you on both sides while you're processing through some heavy stuff.
And it's so interesting. Our bodies are so knowledgeable, as you touched on.
There's the four types of trauma that I tell people, at least from my perspective.
There's your own historical trauma, which is every catecholamine or stressor
exposure that you've had.
Since your parents two zygotes first met, begging the sperm, right?
(20:23):
So all the stress your mom had during pregnancy, your actual childbirth,
you know, if you have a C-section or stuck in the birth canal,
like that's a rough entry into this planet.
And then everything before you
started forming concrete memories and everything to where you're at now.
And that's just the first type of trauma. And we hold that in our bodies for sure, you know.
The second type of trauma is that epigenetics or intergenerational.
(20:45):
We're just scratching the surface on the science of all that super interesting
stuff, you know, gene expression and proteome.
And basically we know for sure, at least five generations behind us,
the trauma that our great, great, great grandparents went through prior to procreating,
it's changed their gene expression enough so that they would pass on an increased
hypervigilance to us, which is, you know, really good if you're living in a
(21:08):
township surrounded by saber-toothed tigers or you're trying to exist in a chaotic family home unit,
not necessarily if you're in a relatively safe environment.
Third type of trauma is that societal. And, you know, when people do an induction
series with ketamine and a one-month booster, that gives them 80-plus days of
really good neuroplasticity, which we know is the science supports,
is the kind of top end of where people need of neuroplasticity,
(21:33):
that ability to create new dendritic connections, to create new habits, and to break old habits.
And so, really, they can let go of so much of those first two types of trauma.
The third type of trauma, that societal trauma, in large part,
I think that's what's pushing people back through our doors.
This reactivation, you know, it's like not feeling safe to feel safe anymore.
(21:53):
You know, it just sucks out there, long and short of it. We know in general,
living in a patriarchal, capitalistic society with an economy of scale and a
largely disconnected family unit, it's not great for our brains.
And that's the reality we exist in. A fourth type of trauma is what I call environmental.
And there's like the microplastics and the cell phone radiation and stuff that's
(22:15):
basically impossible to get away from.
That all being said all trauma the
big capital bold t's and the little italic t's
you know it's all healable or integratable given the right set setting and circumstances
right and you know things like yoga nidra things like you know ketamine treatments
obviously things like deep sleep relaxation things like journaling and artwork
(22:38):
things like sense of community things like dance and music.
Or I say doing dirt angels out there, you know, hugging a tree.
Like there's a legit science that supports these things now.
Did you know that once rubber-soled shoes came out, depression and anxiety went way up in human beings?
We lost our connection with Earth. So interesting.
(22:59):
One thing that you're doing here, which I'm super excited about,
you know, beyond just being your awesome self, is that women's embodiment class,
embracing your divine femininity.
I think that's such a beautiful thing. and we close those curtains.
It's only open to women. Tell me a little bit about that.
Well, again, it's selfishly created for myself, but I,
(23:21):
I just really, so I moved here from New Jersey and I had a beautiful community
where I felt like I could practice in this way in New Jersey and that wasn't what I found here.
And so I was like, well, I'll just have to make it, I'll have to create it.
And so this class pulls from yoga and Kundalini and then also dance and the
(23:47):
basis or the idea is to help women to tune into their inner guidance,
their truth, but also then like their sexuality and their sensuality and to
feel faith and just feel like they have a place to explore that.
We store so much everyone male
(24:08):
female in the hips like in yoga the hips is like the garage or the basement
it's like where you put things you don't want to look at so like if you have
tight hips or if you have discomfort in the hips that is you know a big old
box of something that you don't want to look at.
And so the class is really a playful way to clear out all the stuff from the hips.
(24:36):
And I think that my intention also is to create a community of women where we
feel safe to express ourselves and also to celebrate women in a way that maybe
we're not used to celebrating women and their bodies and the way that they can move.
So there's twerking and there's more like.
(24:56):
Kind of taboo ways of moving the body.
But if you look in ancient cultures, like belly dancing,
African tribal dancing, even like, I'm not recalling the tribes name,
but they're like a tribe in South America, like salsa,
(25:16):
like, like, there's always women moving their hips.
And it's It's not something to be shameful about.
It's not something to get uncomfortable about.
It's something to be celebrated. And it's also healing.
I was kind of joking with you. We have the vibration plate here.
And like that is great. And also you could just twerk for 10 minutes and get
(25:40):
the same kind of vibration in the body.
But it's coming from yourself. self. And I think I, I kind of,
my favorite thing is something that I can do for myself on my own and not need
a device or not need a medicine or not need something external outside of me.
And so twerking, I can do that anywhere to any type of music when I just feel
(26:03):
like I'm holding things in my body that I want to release.
And so that's another class that we're going to be offering here or that we
are offering here and just with the intention to heal and bring community together
for women yeah i love all of that yeah thank you so much for bringing that here it's so powerful.
(26:24):
Just going back to the core of us you know i think we talked about it briefly
is just there's so much that's just masked down and then has this weird kind
of like facade on it And it gets taken away from just our natural existence,
like, you know, the divine feminine, the divine masculine.
I went to this super cool presentation in Sedona a couple of years ago now,
(26:48):
and they had a, you know, tongue in cheek title.
It was what's better than sex, you know, better than sex.
And it was like dot, dot, dot. And it was such a cool presentation.
My buddy Stoozy down in Sedona taught it with another, like a bunch of other
really good community kind of clinicians and just human beings.
And what it boiled down to is like, what's better than sex is like radical authenticity, right?
(27:12):
Being that real core, true version of yourself.
And men should be men and women should be women and it should be okay to be those things.
Well, and I think also feeling safe to be that expression. Like I just know
my own journey of healing.
I haven't felt safe to express myself as a woman because I have been afraid
(27:35):
because of cultural issues.
Beliefs or people being like you, if you do that, like this will happen or just
also then being afraid of men.
Like, so I think like the more we explore what that means to us,
then we'll feel more safe interacting with each other in that way.
(27:58):
And i think also the like
at least for
like dance like when you think about
health and wellness right like if you're not like we all came from sex and if
the species is going to evolve like we need to have sex so like it's just like
(28:22):
death right like there's when we look at health and
wellness when we don't talk about sex and sexuality and the embodiment of that,
I think it's missing a huge part of your general wellness.
And so that like, it's a part of your general health.
And like, if, if, if our species isn't procreating, there's a problem.
(28:47):
Right. And so I think that like a
lot of models of health and wellness that
aren't focusing on sex and
sexuality and how you relate to it and how you feel in
your own sex and how you feel in your own sexuality that's like
that's a indication that something is off that's an
indication that you are unwell in some
(29:08):
way and so i'm just so grateful to
also bring this to the community in a
health lens right like there's just so much
taboo right around it just like
there is around death but like we are all a
result of sex and we all are going to die
so like while we're living let's
(29:30):
make the most of it but like not just like not talking about it isn't gonna
make anything better yeah and like that's when i think things fester or things
grow or then when you're you're not talking about it,
when you're not in a healthy relationship to your sexuality,
(29:52):
to your sensuality, to your whatever you're identifying as, that's when you're,
trauma can happen or when things can go awry because you're just like not wanting
to like look at it. Yeah, no, that makes so much sense.
I love so many like interesting talking points with what you brought up.
You know, my kids are 10, 11 and 13.
(30:13):
And, you know, especially at a young age, you know, with all the controversy
around sex ed in schools and such, it's so normalized in TV and movies to have,
you know, incredible violence,
like just this heartbreaking breaking violence done upon one another and almost be glorified.
But then, you know, sex is like so taboo and it's frustrating.
(30:36):
And I think it's, it's in large part, put our society back a few,
you know, hundreds of years, honestly.
And, you know, it's like I said, that we're proving past wisdom with science
and it's so cool to be able,
and it feels so good to be able to offer it in this kind of container where
it's a safe place for, for women to do their healing work and to embrace their
(30:58):
femininity in a safe place without having, you know, we're a wellness bar.
And so you see people go out there and lose their inhibitions with alcohol a lot of the times.
And, you know, then there's dancing and then you kind of go back to your more, you know,
primate or reptilian brain and you see like bumping and twerking and to be able
(31:20):
to do that in a safe place without having substances involved,
I think is incredibly powerful and a great opportunity to do that healing work
and we're all works in progress, right?
And we're all trying to kind of go past some things and I can.
Like see from a lens of psychiatry, you know, there's, there is so much damage
(31:41):
being done by not embracing sexuality in a healthy way.
You know, like there's so many young men now dealing with erectile dysfunction,
you know, dealing with other issues in regards to their sexuality,
because in large part, you know, our digital leashes,
I like to call them, just make everything so accessible
(32:01):
and you know there's not very much
exposure to normalcy you know like there's
exposure to a lot of just weird stuff you know like i think one of the most
and i think it goes both ways for women and men like one of the best-selling
romance novels in a long time was that 50 shades of gray you know and so i read
(32:23):
it and i was like oh what's all this about It's like, wow,
you know, it's quite titillating and it's, you know, very pushing the edge,
you know, what are your thoughts on that kind of stuff?
Well, I think that like the other thing is like when you're when you're not
inhabiting a space in your body, right?
Like if you're completely blocked off from your sexuality, that actually makes
(32:46):
you more susceptible to external influences.
So when you're when you clear all that out then
you are embodied and then you
are going to be safer because you know who
you are and you know like who your authentic self is
so you're going to be able to be like next like no
like absolutely not and so
(33:09):
like then you can be at the bar and
someone can be you can be in an
unsafe situation but you'll know yourself and
you'll be able to protect yourself as opposed to if you're not connected
to a part of yourself more unsafe
behavior right because you're you're disconnected you
don't know what's going on there you're not in that space yeah and I think that
(33:32):
I mean I have thoughts on like I mean my experience is just being a woman so
I don't have the experience of being a man but I do think that the lack of
conversation around sexuality and like intimate relating is doing a great disservice to men and women.
(33:56):
And then also like, I see it as a very spiritual and beautiful thing that is not to be taken lightly.
And so I think that that also like just creates more kind of chaos and just noise around it.
Um, which like then also goes along with like the phone and the gadgets and
(34:19):
like, like constant access.
Whereas if, if we as a culture saw it as like something that is meant to be
pleasurable, but also sacred, like, like that you can have both.
And I think that would be.
Do everyone a lot. Yeah, no, I love that. You know, I feel like we all exist
(34:41):
on the bell curve of every disorder, you know, quote unquote.
And then, like that being said, you know, I think all the unhealthy kind of
stereotypes and things with sexuality and lost sexuality are a symptom of a bigger problem,
you know, and I feel like there's so many good microcosms of growth right now
(35:02):
where people are having more healthy discussions, you know, where boundaries
are being held and, and, you know, there's no unsafety necessarily.
And so that, I think that's helping everyone to kind of raise up.
I'm a cautious optimist by trade.
And I think that part of what we're seeing is we're on the precipice of a human evolution.
And the biggest part of that is going from the no, because to the yes.
(35:26):
And, and so, you know, that that's going to be more more unification.
It's going to be more like, yeah, that makes sense. And, and it's like, oh, okay.
I was listening to Matthew McConaughey's book, Green Lights the other day,
and I got all the way through it. It was really good.
One of the things he said is he was like in, I think, South Africa doing some
(35:47):
kind of spirit journey. He's an interesting dude.
And he was talking about kind of butting in on a, what seemed like an argument
to him between two individuals.
And really like it wasn't I'm right, I'm right kind of thing is they stopped
him because they're like, hey, like that's not what we're trying to do.
We're trying to help you see my side. Right. And I love that.
(36:09):
You know, again, it goes back to proving past wisdom with science and we're just...
We're getting to so many good things. You know, the movement is medicine.
And I love that, like a lot of what we're talking about is getting back to your authentic self.
You know, one of the big things that I put in our integration book,
(36:30):
you know, at Revitalize Academy and Clinic, and it could be an integration book
for being a human, you know, so many things in there.
One of the things I really liked that a client had said is like,
we're born remembering, we forget along the way, and our job is to remember
again. I just think that's so powerful.
Yeah yeah just peeling
back the layers one at a
(36:52):
time totally so tell just tell
the audience here a little bit about what you think
are some of the offerings here at rock and possibly rkc that you're the most
excited about that we're doing well i love community and i think that is like
(37:12):
another kind of area of wellness that can often be missed.
And so I love just the idea of community and bringing people together and celebrating
and cheering people on and feeling like you can be your authentic self in a space.
And also knowing that like, while you're on your own journey,
(37:36):
someone else might have like a different flavor that they're dealing with,
but like they're still in on the journey as well.
So I love the community aspect here at rocked. And I think, um.
Then the dance, the female embodiment. I'm really excited about that.
(37:57):
And ecstatic dance as well. So those are things that I'm really excited about.
I also love the idea of people getting
to try things and knowing that some things might not work for them.
So try different classes, try different modalities.
And if it doesn't work for you, amazing. amazing and then find something
(38:20):
else yeah so like while cold plunge
I really enjoy like not everyone might
and that's great but like then that
just helps you get to know yourself better and doesn't mean that you're wrong
or bad but I think like I get excited about when I think about people finding
out what works for them and knowing that they have like a whole toolbox so that
(38:45):
if they They feel like they're in a rut or they have a situation,
like they feel like they have so many different things and options that they
can choose from and then they can decide how they're going to interact.
Oh, I love that. Yeah. And I love that you brought up community like that was
something that I'm super excited about because we just started the online group,
(39:06):
the Rocked Foundation group.
And so I've got like different channels and you
know like ideally this will spread you know
in a good way to kind of everyone to
make you know wellness more accessible right like because you can go cold plunge
in your local river or lake right you don't need to go buy a eight thousand
dollar Michael Phelps chili goat yeah it's amazing and next level and there's
(39:29):
lots of cold bodies of water right right especially here in Flagstaff yeah totally
you did a triathlon this morning That's amazing.
How was that? It was great. And I think that, you know, all these things.
Like for me doing the cold plunge triathlons
like pushing myself just is a
(39:50):
way for me to like trust myself more that I can take care
of myself and like so that like when
something happens that I maybe didn't plan for
or didn't want I'm like
well I did that cold plunge like oh I did that triathlon
like so that's why
i do all these things it just helps me to trust myself and also
(40:13):
it's like fun right and i think
at least for the triathlon like the hardest part is
the training not not the actual race day
like i think the hardest part is
getting to the start right feel
like you're prepared for it yeah but yeah like
(40:35):
and i think like the reason why i do a race instead
of just do that on a
random saturday with myself is for the community and
like i said like i just moved from new jersey and so i am looking to build community
and so again selfishly i'm excited about community for myself but also like
when something happens that you weren't it may be planning for and you already
(41:01):
have the trust in yourself that you've got this.
It's really nice to have community to remind you like that you got it and to
just listen or give you a hug or.
One of the practitioners in at revitalize
in sedona like bought me flowers like like
(41:22):
and so just like just like those little tiny things that
make being a human really fun and exciting and like why we came here oh i love
that yeah that's so beautiful i love that you focused on community first because
you know like i said like these modalities are cool like you know and expensive
(41:42):
expensive, and awesome.
And they're not what this is about.
You know, this is about really helping you help yourself, like making,
you know, becoming the best version of yourself more accessible.
And a huge part of that is community, you know, finding your people,
you know, your combination of the five people you spend the most time with.
(42:03):
And so being around people who help you want to help yourself,
and who are also trying to work on ourselves, you know, that's beautiful.
And amazing and I love that that was the first thing that you brought up because
everything else is just trying to help you get there well and I think the other
thing is too like I don't know I'm a very empathic and energetic person and
(42:24):
so like when I see someone in the cold plunge.
Get to the five minutes when and they said that that's what they wanted to do but I saw them like,
like go through all the things in the five
minutes like I feel that joy I
feel that excitement I feel like just as
(42:45):
excited as if I did the five minutes for myself but like
I wasn't doing it and then I
think also too like like in
the female embodiment class in the community that I had in New
Jersey which I hope to create here is like watching a
woman come in being like and this was
as me but like being so uncomfortable in her own body
(43:06):
in her own skin and then seeing someone like
do the class for five six seven weeks and like watching
her walk with her hair down a little bit more like just like
a little bit more like pep in her step or like just you're
like oh wow like she's she looks amazing and it's not because of what she's
wearing it's because like it's like that energy that she's exuding and like
(43:28):
when you see that like those transformations in community It feels just as satisfying
as if it was you yourself.
And then I think the other thing is like, like I think the most inspiring people
are the people who are quote unquote, like unhealthy, who are.
You watch them like heal themselves because you're like, if they can do it,
(43:52):
like I certainly can do it. Like I have no excuse.
Like if they're showing up, if they're being courageous, if they're being vulnerable,
like, and this is like so outside their comfort zone.
And maybe this is something that I'm like comfortable with now.
Like, I think it's also motivating to be in community, to continue to be your best self.
(44:13):
So community for all of those reasons. Yeah, I love that. And yeah,
like cycling upwards, you can cycle upwards or cycling downwards.
I loved what you said a while back about the emotion lasting for like 90 seconds.
It's something Tony Robbins said, where it's like, I still feel all those feelings.
I just have exercised to the point, like it's a musculature thing where I don't
(44:36):
get stuck in the reaction.
I don't let myself stay down. right i
say yeah that that's right that's legitimate that i
feel that way right you know and for him it's like a
10 million dollar decision or something you know for us it's
like i shouldn't have ran over that curb and you know those types
of things and i love that you brought up ecstatic
(44:57):
dance too we do the ecstatic dance here and movement
truly is medicine you know we're all so stuck and
like i was feeling my hips when you're talking my hips i was like oh i
got i got some work to do yeah totally and
it feels so good i feel so much better after i move
there's never been a point where i i have like a good dance session and i feel
(45:17):
worse afterwards i've never either yeah so i love it i love that we we took
the time today to make this happen we've been talking about it forever any closing
remarks you'd like to no i'm just so excited and can't wait.
To build community. Yeah, me too. Yeah, we'll post the links to the online community.
(45:37):
You can come into Rocked today.
I mean, we're open 10 to 6 right now. I hope to expand that to 6am to 10pm relatively
soon just to kind of increase access.
And, you know, we're evolving. We're evolving a lot. We're, you know,
trying to build this space and really promote that community.
By the way, I just want to tell you, you did such an amazing job of
coaching people today through the cold plunge and
(46:00):
just being that cheerleader that we can all really
benefit from because you know like I said like I
tell everyone you know what's good for Abigail is good
for the universe and really it just boils down to me being
a selfish person because you want a good universal event yeah right it all benefits
everyone when you're in your best space when I'm in my best space when our new
(46:20):
members are in their best space when people that come in and you know people's
lives who we touch like you can literally like be in that better headspace smile
at a stranger at the grocery store and save a life.
And it's so cool to recognize that what is good for you is good for the universe.
Like I like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, on the bottom of safety and security.
(46:41):
And I think that's why the ketamine treatments work so well,
so quickly for so many people, you know, there's all the neurochemical changes,
obviously, NMDA antagonist, glutamate modulation, serotonin,
norepinephrine. I can go deep on that.
And it's more of getting out of your own way, you know, it's,
it's really that ability to feel safe to feel safe.
(47:02):
You know, because when people are chronically traumatized, like they need to
be in that pucker state, they need to be in that fight, flight or freeze.
And you take that away from them.
That's unsafe, you know, like, and so being able to get there first,
then you can start, you know, having like, you know, roof and food and all those
things that are more important. And then, you know, food and community.
(47:23):
And then on the top is what they say is self-actualization. I like to flip that pyramid.
And then like, once you kind of realize who you are, then you can truly love
yourself for who you are and everything you bring to the table.
And then after you truly love yourself, then the next stage,
in my opinion, is you can truly love the people in your life,
you know, kind of for who they are.
And then after that, you really love everything and everyone for everything
(47:45):
they bring, knowing that it's necessary to be where we're at.
And so it's a moving target you know the journey to wellness is just that a journey,
i love it though thank you so much for taking the time today abigail i really
appreciate you you were paid to be here so you're hourly wages i'm happy to
have you either way thanks so much,
(48:10):
and remember what's good for you is good for the universe take care and make
it a great day Like, comment, and subscribe.
Music.
Hello, and welcome to another Mental Wealth Moves podcast.
I'm your host, Casey Dubrovik, Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner, board certified.
I'm also the owner and operator of Revitalized Ketamine Clinics and Rocked Wellness Bar.
I'm also the co-founder of Epic Biosciences. Thanks for joining us today. day.
(00:28):
So for the podcast we've got for you today, myself and Abigail,
our registered nurse at Revitalize and Rocked Wellness Bar, we sit down and
chat a bunch about many different topics.
We talk about our origin story.
We talk about Kelly Brogan. We talk about women's empowerment.
(00:52):
We talk about divine sexuality.
We talk about how to make the world a better place. It's an interesting conversation.
I hope that you enjoy it. If you have any questions, comments,
concerns, please put them in the comment box.
We will try to answer each one of those. Thank you.
You. All right, Abigail. Yay, we made it. We've been talking about doing this for a long time.
(01:18):
I'm glad to have you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
So I'm Casey Dubrovic. I'm the owner and operator of Revitalized Ketamine Clinic
and also Rocked Wellness Bar.
Revitalize, optimize, and harmonize clinic and therapeutics. So excited to be here.
We've been talking about out doing this for a long time. You and I's kind of
(01:40):
intro is a pretty interesting story.
Like I love, you want to tell it?
Introduce yourself and tell the story. Sure. I'm Abigail and I am a nurse at
Revitalize Ketamine Clinic. I've been a nurse,
for 12 years now and i reached out to you because i wanted to work at revitalize
(02:02):
at the clinic and then didn't know about rocked but just this is like how i
live and this is yeah well you got i felt like you were when you called you were interviewing me,
yeah so i was very intentional about
i knew i wanted to work with psychedelics and
(02:23):
support people in that way but I had already
interviewed a bunch of ketamine clinics in
the west coast and didn't really like their model or how they saw health and
wellness and so when I talked to you the fact that you had such an emphasis
on like an individual's journey in healing was really important to me and I
(02:46):
moved to Sedona and I'm here working at ROPT.
Yeah awesome yeah you're You're so awesome. I appreciate you.
Yeah. Cause you were working at that big ketamine clinic. What was the name of the place?
Um, I was working at boost in Idaho. Yeah. And the, the creator of that,
she said she was next level.
She was doing like NAD infusions in addition to like, I think some of the nerve
(03:08):
block components as well. Yeah.
I would have stayed there, but she took a break from practicing to do her own killing.
And so I was looking for a job that was being really, really specific about where I wanted to work.
Yeah. Well, we're super glad you landed with us and, you know,
I'm super excited to have you here at Rock as well.
(03:29):
I think your unique skill set really fits well with what we're trying to create here.
You know, I always tell people with the ketamine treatments and you and I are
very intentional with that in that,
You know, it's incredibly valuable and it's much more important about what you do afterwards.
And so, you know, I always tell people when I see them for my initial consultation,
(03:53):
we always try to qualify people, make sure they're at a good place to be able
to do the treatments that no one needs.
It's not great for business, but I tell people, you know, straight up,
no one needs ketamine. No one needs an ego dissolution agent.
There's a million other ways to get to out of your head space.
And unfortunately, our society isn't very conducive to mental wellness in large part.
And so, you know, there's a million other ways to get to healthy red space.
(04:15):
And that's what we're trying to create here at Rocked is that million other
ways that human potentiation.
And I'm really, you know, part of that is getting back to our roots.
You know, I feel like with what we're creating here, it's, it's synonymous with
what we're seeing in Western medicine in that we're proving past wisdom with science.
And so like the vibrational frequencies, like we're seeing that kind of work
(04:40):
come out and, you know, we're doing sound healing work here at rock.
That was something I wanted to talk to you about. I had a client come through
RKC revitalized ketamine clinic.
And he said, this was like the first time that he had any sort of ego dissolution agent.
And he was really out of his own body. And it wasn't the first time he was out of his own body.
He had actually gotten out of his own body doing a
(05:02):
group sound healing where people they rotated
there was i think five or six individuals and so
you would rotate between being at one of
the person's appendages like head legs and arms and everyone would be working
a different sound bowl of a different frequency kind of all around you and then
so i want to do that here i'm super excited so many cool things that we're creating
(05:26):
And so you just gave me an IV earlier. I feel energized.
There's always so much to do as an entrepreneur, as you know,
because you work with Kelly Brogan's program.
And Dr. Kelly Brogan, she's so brilliant. And I love her backstory.
Do you want to say a little bit about where you come from with that?
(05:47):
Kelly Bruggen was a traditionally trained psychiatrist at Yale,
I believe, and focused on helping women come start antipsychotic,
antidepressive medications.
And then through her own kind of health journey, realized that she wanted to
help women come off of those medications.
(06:07):
And she started doing that in her practice and created a whole program around
nutrition and lifestyle and nutrition.
Really a strong container for people to get to know themselves.
I think it is more than a diet and it's more of a rite of passage.
(06:32):
And so in that kind of container, people are able to show up for themselves
in ways that we don't show up for ourselves, maybe outside of a container.
And so I coach through her program and have helped and guided people through that.
And yet all of this stuff that I do or talk about or help people through, I do myself.
(06:59):
And so it's really beautiful to see what people can walk themselves through
on the other side when they trust their intuition and when they start like looking within for answers,
not that like we don't need support or that we need to do things alone.
I think it's more knowing what works for you and really tuning into your guidance
(07:26):
and then asking for the support and getting the support you need as you like
put your foot in front of the other.
Right. Yeah. Really meeting people where they are. I think that's,
that's super beautiful and important, you know, for us to really get the most
out of any program, being able to.
(07:46):
Like we were talking about that this or i was talking about that
with misha one of the therapists we're talking about you know
it's such a intangible term kind of wellness in
general right like because wellness is very different for different people i
think yeah there's you know kind of a human design element where you can get
people to kind of the best versions of themselves stage wise and wellness for
(08:09):
some people might be going to mcdonald's and getting the small size versus the extra large size,
you know, or switching out, you know, for half Kool-Aid and half water.
And so really, you know, those baby steps are more maintainable.
And, and that's where you really get the lifestyle shifts.
And so I love what you're doing. And I love Kelly Brogan's story,
(08:31):
her backstory, where she was dealing with like all this chronic inflammation and illness.
And she went down, you know, the normal rabbit holes where she's getting allergy tests and doing,
you know, a myriad of blood tests and different ingesting different chemicals
and drugs and everything,
you know, that's like traditional psychiatry is so soul crushing in that way,
(08:55):
where you're just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks.
Right. And, you know, you look at any psychiatric textbook, and it's like,
you know, 45 pages of how SSRIs work, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
And then there's like a paragraph, alternative modalities, you know,
and it's, it's soul crushing in some ways, especially coming at it from a holistic
(09:18):
practitioner standpoint.
You know, I always say like, you think of mood super basically as a waveform
where you've got like the depression and hedonia that I don't care is at the bottom.
And then that anxiety, hypervigilance up top, you know, and then people with
trauma, they bounce back and forth a lot quicker between those two.
And pretty much across the board, like any medication I'd ever prescribed,
(09:39):
the SSRIs, the SNRIs, the mood stabilizers, the antipsychotics,
the benzodiazepines, the hypnotics, about 10% to 30% effective long term.
And they're just kind of squishing that waveform.
So people may be less depressed, may be less anxious, may be less mobility,
may be less suicidality. In general, kind of less everything.
And, you know, in my opinion, in a growing number of psychiatric providers.
(10:01):
Those are your psyche's cries for help, right?
Like, hey, what we're doing isn't working. and so that's why
i'm so passionate about what we do at revitalize and
what we're doing here too at rock is you know
let's let's help you get to that root cause let's help you
become that best version of yourself let's help you
shed those things i really like that old buddhist saying where
(10:22):
one of the biggest forms of human suffering is looking
at an old photo of yourself and thinking you're the same person and
you have that capacity to be a completely different
human being that walks off camera than walked in camera
you go both ways right yeah and
i think what you said too like symptoms like
i don't see symptoms as a problem i i just see them as our body trying to communicate
(10:46):
with us and that we're just misunderstanding or trying to like go to war on
our bodies with medications or with treatments.
And again, this kind of model is not for everyone, but that if you do choose
to look at your symptoms as more of like a message,
(11:08):
then there's other ways, like through
diet and lifestyle and other kind of alternative therapies like cold plunge
and sauna and community and dancing that you really can totally change your
life and your symptoms will resolve and they will heal.
(11:29):
And I think kind of that model where you're like broken and you can't be fixed,
you need a pill to fix your problem is so disempowering.
And in Vital Mind Reset, the program that I help guide people through.
It's bringing that power back to yourself and trusting that you can heal yourself
(11:52):
and also just starting to look at your body in a different way and seeing like,
oh, this is just my body talking to me.
This is just something that needs to be addressed and I need to listen or need
to come at it from a different angle as opposed to like,
I need to kill or like destroy this symptom.
(12:15):
Gym right yeah no i i love that
i love all that it's like um you know what i like
to say is that you need to feel it to heal it right and
so like those are your your body your psyche
is like hey like yeah like literally i'm crying
for help like don't mask this down like
let's go through that together let's integrate let's put
(12:36):
those pieces together that that i always like to
say there's no such thing as good and bad human emotion right there's
only bad human reaction to that emotion right and
so that's where we get in trouble well and
like feeling like if i'm to tell you just like oh you just have to feel it like
like because of the way we've been conditioned and raised it can be really scary
(13:01):
and hard to feel it yeah but knowing that on the other side of that feeling.
There's like relief right yeah it
i think they've like studied it but like
i'm feeling less if you really feel it for like 90
seconds like you're not going to be
(13:21):
stuck in the feeling and
i think that's so many i can speak from my own experience that like i the more
i try not to feel it the louder it gets right and then i can say that too i
get to a point where it's not an option anymore I feel it and because I have
kind of been doing this kind of alternative.
(13:44):
Healing or just using, um,
more ancient kind of technologies now i
feel it and it lasts like 90 seconds and
i move on with my life and then you know
i can do what i want to do or just show up in a way that i wasn't able to show
up before because i was trying to suppress or avoid or just like talk my way
(14:07):
out of something that just not needed to be felt right yeah exactly you know
bessel vandercock's work the body keeps
the score, right? I don't recommend people read that book.
I do recommend they understand the footnotes. It can just be so activating.
And you're just saying so much truth. A good buddy of mine said it,
where you see overlap is where you see the truth.
(14:28):
There's so many ways to say the same thing.
And everyone needs it to be told slightly different. Or like hear it 10 times. Yeah. A hundred.
A thousand. Yeah, whatever. I think I've been hearing, I need to read that Four
Agreements book for like 20 plus years until I read it like four years ago.
And what a game changer, you know, some of those ways of hearing.
(14:52):
And it took me probably like as long to get through the first five pages as
it did through the rest of the book, just because of his writing style.
Don Miguel Ruiz is next level for sure.
So we touched a little bit on, you know, our backgrounds.
Backgrounds i've been in traditional health care since 2004 and
then opened revitalized ketamine clinic in 2021 i
(15:14):
guess i'm i didn't touch on too much on my background because now i'm going
to it but you touched on some of yours and you
know some of our ethos what got us here i think it bears reiterating you know
why revitalize ketamine clinic why revitalize optimize and harmonize clinic
and therapeutics rocked and get rocked in a good way right you're gonna rock
(15:35):
it just different ways to pronounce it, make it fun, right?
I think rocked is rocked wellness bar is really about widening that funnel.
Because revitalized ketamine clinic, not everyone's ready for ketamine,
or frankly, would benefit from it.
Like there's a place for daily medications for people that need to be able to
get that one foot in front of the other so that they can go to therapy so they
(15:57):
can get there, get out the door,
you know, and when they're ready, like, Like there are so many wonderful modalities,
next level modalities available now.
And, you know, we're the harbingers of some of that with what we're doing.
And so I'm super excited about all that. I know you offering a yoga nidra class
tonight in just about an hour. Hopefully we get that nice and full.
(16:18):
Tell me a little about yoga nidra, what you know about. I love yoga nidra.
So yoga nidra, it means like sleep yoga. and the idea is to bring you into a
hypnotic hypnagogic state. And, and.
You're, so I start the class with just some gentle stretches and movements,
(16:40):
and then you're laying on your back with pillows and props if you choose,
or just flat on the floor.
And you're guided to bring your awareness to different parts of the body.
And it's normally alternating between right and left.
And you're starting at one point moving your way down.
And then this lasts about like 30 to 45 minutes so you're really in like a dream
(17:06):
sleep-like state and that state has been studied and it is 30 minutes of yoga
nidra is equivalent to four hours of deep sleep and so,
again like all these things that i teach all these things that i am certified
in i use Yeah, you practice on your feet.
And like I all
(17:29):
of these things I use for myself and they have helped me in just like they've
saved my life right like or they've helped me to not take medication or not
do things that I didn't want to do so I know how beneficial they are and.
Yoga nidra is just giving rest to the body and.
(17:54):
You know we're busy like we do a
lot and sometimes people are sleeping for eight
hours but they're not feeling restored they're not getting
into a dreamlike state and so yoga nidra is
a way to do that and have someone
guiding you it also connects it also connects
you to your subconscious so different images
(18:15):
can come up and it's just so beautiful
and it's just a simple practice where
you just lay well there's so much science yeah and
you know this was it's an ancient yogic
tradition so it's like you
said these ancient technologies are now
(18:35):
yeah cutting edge but it's
been around for thousands and thousands of years
and the yogis knew this way back
when without all the scans and all that so that's
yoga nidra and whether you come to class
in person or you download a
(18:57):
yoga nidra track at home you
can access this anywhere so there was a time where i was working in new york
city as a nurse and i had an hour lunch break but i would do yoga nidra for
30 minutes of my hour lunch break and just like found a quiet room and was the
crazy person laying on the floor.
(19:17):
But I was like, this is what I need. And so I do believe when you tune into.
Your true self like it will
let you know what you need and if you're feeling like
you need your yoga nidra we're here yeah
absolutely every sunday night that every else working from 5 to 6 p.m we're
(19:37):
offering yoga nidra here and i'm just you know so supportive and interested
in those modalities you know i love that it's like tying in the left and the
right like bilateral you know It mimics a lot of what people are doing with EMDR,
eye movement, desensitization, and reprocessing. I'm trained in that.
And you can use theratappers, which is like a haptic feedback thing.
(20:00):
And they just tap you on both sides while you're processing through some heavy stuff.
And it's so interesting. Our bodies are so knowledgeable, as you touched on.
There's the four types of trauma that I tell people, at least from my perspective.
There's your own historical trauma, which is every catecholamine or stressor
exposure that you've had.
Since your parents two zygotes first met, begging the sperm, right?
(20:23):
So all the stress your mom had during pregnancy, your actual childbirth,
you know, if you have a C-section or stuck in the birth canal,
like that's a rough entry into this planet.
And then everything before you
started forming concrete memories and everything to where you're at now.
And that's just the first type of trauma. And we hold that in our bodies for sure, you know.
The second type of trauma is that epigenetics or intergenerational.
(20:45):
We're just scratching the surface on the science of all that super interesting
stuff, you know, gene expression and proteome.
And basically we know for sure, at least five generations behind us,
the trauma that our great, great, great grandparents went through prior to procreating,
it's changed their gene expression enough so that they would pass on an increased
hypervigilance to us, which is, you know, really good if you're living in a
(21:08):
township surrounded by saber-toothed tigers or you're trying to exist in a chaotic family home unit,
not necessarily if you're in a relatively safe environment.
Third type of trauma is that societal. And, you know, when people do an induction
series with ketamine and a one-month booster, that gives them 80-plus days of
really good neuroplasticity, which we know is the science supports,
is the kind of top end of where people need of neuroplasticity,
(21:33):
that ability to create new dendritic connections, to create new habits, and to break old habits.
And so, really, they can let go of so much of those first two types of trauma.
The third type of trauma, that societal trauma, in large part,
I think that's what's pushing people back through our doors.
This reactivation, you know, it's like not feeling safe to feel safe anymore.
(21:53):
You know, it just sucks out there, long and short of it. We know in general,
living in a patriarchal, capitalistic society with an economy of scale and a
largely disconnected family unit, it's not great for our brains.
And that's the reality we exist in. A fourth type of trauma is what I call environmental.
And there's like the microplastics and the cell phone radiation and stuff that's
(22:15):
basically impossible to get away from.
That all being said all trauma the
big capital bold t's and the little italic t's
you know it's all healable or integratable given the right set setting and circumstances
right and you know things like yoga nidra things like you know ketamine treatments
obviously things like deep sleep relaxation things like journaling and artwork
(22:38):
things like sense of community things like dance and music.
Or I say doing dirt angels out there, you know, hugging a tree.
Like there's a legit science that supports these things now.
Did you know that once rubber-soled shoes came out, depression and anxiety went way up in human beings?
We lost our connection with Earth. So interesting.
(22:59):
One thing that you're doing here, which I'm super excited about,
you know, beyond just being your awesome self, is that women's embodiment class,
embracing your divine femininity.
I think that's such a beautiful thing. and we close those curtains.
It's only open to women. Tell me a little bit about that.
Well, again, it's selfishly created for myself, but I,
(23:21):
I just really, so I moved here from New Jersey and I had a beautiful community
where I felt like I could practice in this way in New Jersey and that wasn't what I found here.
And so I was like, well, I'll just have to make it, I'll have to create it.
And so this class pulls from yoga and Kundalini and then also dance and the
(23:47):
basis or the idea is to help women to tune into their inner guidance,
their truth, but also then like their sexuality and their sensuality and to
feel faith and just feel like they have a place to explore that.
We store so much everyone male
(24:08):
female in the hips like in yoga the hips is like the garage or the basement
it's like where you put things you don't want to look at so like if you have
tight hips or if you have discomfort in the hips that is you know a big old
box of something that you don't want to look at.
And so the class is really a playful way to clear out all the stuff from the hips.
(24:36):
And I think that my intention also is to create a community of women where we
feel safe to express ourselves and also to celebrate women in a way that maybe
we're not used to celebrating women and their bodies and the way that they can move.
So there's twerking and there's more like.
(24:56):
Kind of taboo ways of moving the body.
But if you look in ancient cultures, like belly dancing,
African tribal dancing, even like, I'm not recalling the tribes name,
but they're like a tribe in South America, like salsa,
(25:16):
like, like, there's always women moving their hips.
And it's It's not something to be shameful about.
It's not something to get uncomfortable about.
It's something to be celebrated. And it's also healing.
I was kind of joking with you. We have the vibration plate here.
And like that is great. And also you could just twerk for 10 minutes and get
(25:40):
the same kind of vibration in the body.
But it's coming from yourself. self. And I think I, I kind of,
my favorite thing is something that I can do for myself on my own and not need
a device or not need a medicine or not need something external outside of me.
And so twerking, I can do that anywhere to any type of music when I just feel
(26:03):
like I'm holding things in my body that I want to release.
And so that's another class that we're going to be offering here or that we
are offering here and just with the intention to heal and bring community together
for women yeah i love all of that yeah thank you so much for bringing that here it's so powerful.
(26:24):
Just going back to the core of us you know i think we talked about it briefly
is just there's so much that's just masked down and then has this weird kind
of like facade on it And it gets taken away from just our natural existence,
like, you know, the divine feminine, the divine masculine.
I went to this super cool presentation in Sedona a couple of years ago now,
(26:48):
and they had a, you know, tongue in cheek title.
It was what's better than sex, you know, better than sex.
And it was like dot, dot, dot. And it was such a cool presentation.
My buddy Stoozy down in Sedona taught it with another, like a bunch of other
really good community kind of clinicians and just human beings.
And what it boiled down to is like, what's better than sex is like radical authenticity, right?
(27:12):
Being that real core, true version of yourself.
And men should be men and women should be women and it should be okay to be those things.
Well, and I think also feeling safe to be that expression. Like I just know
my own journey of healing.
I haven't felt safe to express myself as a woman because I have been afraid
(27:35):
because of cultural issues.
Beliefs or people being like you, if you do that, like this will happen or just
also then being afraid of men.
Like, so I think like the more we explore what that means to us,
then we'll feel more safe interacting with each other in that way.
(27:58):
And i think also the like
at least for
like dance like when you think about
health and wellness right like if you're not like we all came from sex and if
the species is going to evolve like we need to have sex so like it's just like
(28:22):
death right like there's when we look at health and
wellness when we don't talk about sex and sexuality and the embodiment of that,
I think it's missing a huge part of your general wellness.
And so that like, it's a part of your general health.
And like, if, if, if our species isn't procreating, there's a problem.
(28:47):
Right. And so I think that like a
lot of models of health and wellness that
aren't focusing on sex and
sexuality and how you relate to it and how you feel in
your own sex and how you feel in your own sexuality that's like
that's a indication that something is off that's an
indication that you are unwell in some
(29:08):
way and so i'm just so grateful to
also bring this to the community in a
health lens right like there's just so much
taboo right around it just like
there is around death but like we are all a
result of sex and we all are going to die
so like while we're living let's
(29:30):
make the most of it but like not just like not talking about it isn't gonna
make anything better yeah and like that's when i think things fester or things
grow or then when you're you're not talking about it,
when you're not in a healthy relationship to your sexuality,
(29:52):
to your sensuality, to your whatever you're identifying as, that's when you're,
trauma can happen or when things can go awry because you're just like not wanting
to like look at it. Yeah, no, that makes so much sense.
I love so many like interesting talking points with what you brought up.
You know, my kids are 10, 11 and 13.
(30:13):
And, you know, especially at a young age, you know, with all the controversy
around sex ed in schools and such, it's so normalized in TV and movies to have,
you know, incredible violence,
like just this heartbreaking breaking violence done upon one another and almost be glorified.
But then, you know, sex is like so taboo and it's frustrating.
(30:36):
And I think it's, it's in large part, put our society back a few,
you know, hundreds of years, honestly.
And, you know, it's like I said, that we're proving past wisdom with science
and it's so cool to be able,
and it feels so good to be able to offer it in this kind of container where
it's a safe place for, for women to do their healing work and to embrace their
(30:58):
femininity in a safe place without having, you know, we're a wellness bar.
And so you see people go out there and lose their inhibitions with alcohol a lot of the times.
And, you know, then there's dancing and then you kind of go back to your more, you know,
primate or reptilian brain and you see like bumping and twerking and to be able
(31:20):
to do that in a safe place without having substances involved,
I think is incredibly powerful and a great opportunity to do that healing work
and we're all works in progress, right?
And we're all trying to kind of go past some things and I can.
Like see from a lens of psychiatry, you know, there's, there is so much damage
(31:41):
being done by not embracing sexuality in a healthy way.
You know, like there's so many young men now dealing with erectile dysfunction,
you know, dealing with other issues in regards to their sexuality,
because in large part, you know, our digital leashes,
I like to call them, just make everything so accessible
(32:01):
and you know there's not very much
exposure to normalcy you know like there's
exposure to a lot of just weird stuff you know like i think one of the most
and i think it goes both ways for women and men like one of the best-selling
romance novels in a long time was that 50 shades of gray you know and so i read
(32:23):
it and i was like oh what's all this about It's like, wow,
you know, it's quite titillating and it's, you know, very pushing the edge,
you know, what are your thoughts on that kind of stuff?
Well, I think that like the other thing is like when you're when you're not
inhabiting a space in your body, right?
Like if you're completely blocked off from your sexuality, that actually makes
(32:46):
you more susceptible to external influences.
So when you're when you clear all that out then
you are embodied and then you
are going to be safer because you know who
you are and you know like who your authentic self is
so you're going to be able to be like next like no
like absolutely not and so
(33:09):
like then you can be at the bar and
someone can be you can be in an
unsafe situation but you'll know yourself and
you'll be able to protect yourself as opposed to if you're not connected
to a part of yourself more unsafe
behavior right because you're you're disconnected you
don't know what's going on there you're not in that space yeah and I think that
(33:32):
I mean I have thoughts on like I mean my experience is just being a woman so
I don't have the experience of being a man but I do think that the lack of
conversation around sexuality and like intimate relating is doing a great disservice to men and women.
(33:56):
And then also like, I see it as a very spiritual and beautiful thing that is not to be taken lightly.
And so I think that that also like just creates more kind of chaos and just noise around it.
Um, which like then also goes along with like the phone and the gadgets and
(34:19):
like, like constant access.
Whereas if, if we as a culture saw it as like something that is meant to be
pleasurable, but also sacred, like, like that you can have both.
And I think that would be.
Do everyone a lot. Yeah, no, I love that. You know, I feel like we all exist
(34:41):
on the bell curve of every disorder, you know, quote unquote.
And then, like that being said, you know, I think all the unhealthy kind of
stereotypes and things with sexuality and lost sexuality are a symptom of a bigger problem,
you know, and I feel like there's so many good microcosms of growth right now
(35:02):
where people are having more healthy discussions, you know, where boundaries
are being held and, and, you know, there's no unsafety necessarily.
And so that, I think that's helping everyone to kind of raise up.
I'm a cautious optimist by trade.
And I think that part of what we're seeing is we're on the precipice of a human evolution.
And the biggest part of that is going from the no, because to the yes.
(35:26):
And, and so, you know, that that's going to be more more unification.
It's going to be more like, yeah, that makes sense. And, and it's like, oh, okay.
I was listening to Matthew McConaughey's book, Green Lights the other day,
and I got all the way through it. It was really good.
One of the things he said is he was like in, I think, South Africa doing some
(35:47):
kind of spirit journey. He's an interesting dude.
And he was talking about kind of butting in on a, what seemed like an argument
to him between two individuals.
And really like it wasn't I'm right, I'm right kind of thing is they stopped
him because they're like, hey, like that's not what we're trying to do.
We're trying to help you see my side. Right. And I love that.
(36:09):
You know, again, it goes back to proving past wisdom with science and we're just...
We're getting to so many good things. You know, the movement is medicine.
And I love that, like a lot of what we're talking about is getting back to your authentic self.
You know, one of the big things that I put in our integration book,
(36:30):
you know, at Revitalize Academy and Clinic, and it could be an integration book
for being a human, you know, so many things in there.
One of the things I really liked that a client had said is like,
we're born remembering, we forget along the way, and our job is to remember
again. I just think that's so powerful.
Yeah yeah just peeling
back the layers one at a
(36:52):
time totally so tell just tell
the audience here a little bit about what you think
are some of the offerings here at rock and possibly rkc that you're the most
excited about that we're doing well i love community and i think that is like
(37:12):
another kind of area of wellness that can often be missed.
And so I love just the idea of community and bringing people together and celebrating
and cheering people on and feeling like you can be your authentic self in a space.
And also knowing that like, while you're on your own journey,
(37:36):
someone else might have like a different flavor that they're dealing with,
but like they're still in on the journey as well.
So I love the community aspect here at rocked. And I think, um.
Then the dance, the female embodiment. I'm really excited about that.
(37:57):
And ecstatic dance as well. So those are things that I'm really excited about.
I also love the idea of people getting
to try things and knowing that some things might not work for them.
So try different classes, try different modalities.
And if it doesn't work for you, amazing. amazing and then find something
(38:20):
else yeah so like while cold plunge
I really enjoy like not everyone might
and that's great but like then that
just helps you get to know yourself better and doesn't mean that you're wrong
or bad but I think like I get excited about when I think about people finding
out what works for them and knowing that they have like a whole toolbox so that
(38:45):
if they They feel like they're in a rut or they have a situation,
like they feel like they have so many different things and options that they
can choose from and then they can decide how they're going to interact.
Oh, I love that. Yeah. And I love that you brought up community like that was
something that I'm super excited about because we just started the online group,
(39:06):
the Rocked Foundation group.
And so I've got like different channels and you
know like ideally this will spread you know
in a good way to kind of everyone to
make you know wellness more accessible right like because you can go cold plunge
in your local river or lake right you don't need to go buy a eight thousand
dollar Michael Phelps chili goat yeah it's amazing and next level and there's
(39:29):
lots of cold bodies of water right right especially here in Flagstaff yeah totally
you did a triathlon this morning That's amazing.
How was that? It was great. And I think that, you know, all these things.
Like for me doing the cold plunge triathlons
like pushing myself just is a
(39:50):
way for me to like trust myself more that I can take care
of myself and like so that like when
something happens that I maybe didn't plan for
or didn't want I'm like
well I did that cold plunge like oh I did that triathlon
like so that's why
i do all these things it just helps me to trust myself and also
(40:13):
it's like fun right and i think
at least for the triathlon like the hardest part is
the training not not the actual race day
like i think the hardest part is
getting to the start right feel
like you're prepared for it yeah but yeah like
(40:35):
and i think like the reason why i do a race instead
of just do that on a
random saturday with myself is for the community and
like i said like i just moved from new jersey and so i am looking to build community
and so again selfishly i'm excited about community for myself but also like
when something happens that you weren't it may be planning for and you already
(41:01):
have the trust in yourself that you've got this.
It's really nice to have community to remind you like that you got it and to
just listen or give you a hug or.
One of the practitioners in at revitalize
in sedona like bought me flowers like like
(41:22):
and so just like just like those little tiny things that
make being a human really fun and exciting and like why we came here oh i love
that yeah that's so beautiful i love that you focused on community first because
you know like i said like these modalities are cool like you know and expensive
(41:42):
expensive, and awesome.
And they're not what this is about.
You know, this is about really helping you help yourself, like making,
you know, becoming the best version of yourself more accessible.
And a huge part of that is community, you know, finding your people,
you know, your combination of the five people you spend the most time with.
(42:03):
And so being around people who help you want to help yourself,
and who are also trying to work on ourselves, you know, that's beautiful.
And amazing and I love that that was the first thing that you brought up because
everything else is just trying to help you get there well and I think the other
thing is too like I don't know I'm a very empathic and energetic person and
(42:24):
so like when I see someone in the cold plunge.
Get to the five minutes when and they said that that's what they wanted to do but I saw them like,
like go through all the things in the five
minutes like I feel that joy I
feel that excitement I feel like just as
(42:45):
excited as if I did the five minutes for myself but like
I wasn't doing it and then I
think also too like like in
the female embodiment class in the community that I had in New
Jersey which I hope to create here is like watching a
woman come in being like and this was
as me but like being so uncomfortable in her own body
(43:06):
in her own skin and then seeing someone like
do the class for five six seven weeks and like watching
her walk with her hair down a little bit more like just like
a little bit more like pep in her step or like just you're
like oh wow like she's she looks amazing and it's not because of what she's
wearing it's because like it's like that energy that she's exuding and like
(43:28):
when you see that like those transformations in community It feels just as satisfying
as if it was you yourself.
And then I think the other thing is like, like I think the most inspiring people
are the people who are quote unquote, like unhealthy, who are.
You watch them like heal themselves because you're like, if they can do it,
(43:52):
like I certainly can do it. Like I have no excuse.
Like if they're showing up, if they're being courageous, if they're being vulnerable,
like, and this is like so outside their comfort zone.
And maybe this is something that I'm like comfortable with now.
Like, I think it's also motivating to be in community, to continue to be your best self.
(44:13):
So community for all of those reasons. Yeah, I love that. And yeah,
like cycling upwards, you can cycle upwards or cycling downwards.
I loved what you said a while back about the emotion lasting for like 90 seconds.
It's something Tony Robbins said, where it's like, I still feel all those feelings.
I just have exercised to the point, like it's a musculature thing where I don't
(44:36):
get stuck in the reaction.
I don't let myself stay down. right i
say yeah that that's right that's legitimate that i
feel that way right you know and for him it's like a
10 million dollar decision or something you know for us it's
like i shouldn't have ran over that curb and you know those types
of things and i love that you brought up ecstatic
(44:57):
dance too we do the ecstatic dance here and movement
truly is medicine you know we're all so stuck and
like i was feeling my hips when you're talking my hips i was like oh i
got i got some work to do yeah totally and
it feels so good i feel so much better after i move
there's never been a point where i i have like a good dance session and i feel
(45:17):
worse afterwards i've never either yeah so i love it i love that we we took
the time today to make this happen we've been talking about it forever any closing
remarks you'd like to no i'm just so excited and can't wait.
To build community. Yeah, me too. Yeah, we'll post the links to the online community.
(45:37):
You can come into Rocked today.
I mean, we're open 10 to 6 right now. I hope to expand that to 6am to 10pm relatively
soon just to kind of increase access.
And, you know, we're evolving. We're evolving a lot. We're, you know,
trying to build this space and really promote that community.
By the way, I just want to tell you, you did such an amazing job of
coaching people today through the cold plunge and
(46:00):
just being that cheerleader that we can all really
benefit from because you know like I said like I
tell everyone you know what's good for Abigail is good
for the universe and really it just boils down to me being
a selfish person because you want a good universal event yeah right it all benefits
everyone when you're in your best space when I'm in my best space when our new
(46:20):
members are in their best space when people that come in and you know people's
lives who we touch like you can literally like be in that better headspace smile
at a stranger at the grocery store and save a life.
And it's so cool to recognize that what is good for you is good for the universe.
Like I like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, on the bottom of safety and security.
(46:41):
And I think that's why the ketamine treatments work so well,
so quickly for so many people, you know, there's all the neurochemical changes,
obviously, NMDA antagonist, glutamate modulation, serotonin,
norepinephrine. I can go deep on that.
And it's more of getting out of your own way, you know, it's,
it's really that ability to feel safe to feel safe.
(47:02):
You know, because when people are chronically traumatized, like they need to
be in that pucker state, they need to be in that fight, flight or freeze.
And you take that away from them.
That's unsafe, you know, like, and so being able to get there first,
then you can start, you know, having like, you know, roof and food and all those
things that are more important. And then, you know, food and community.
(47:23):
And then on the top is what they say is self-actualization. I like to flip that pyramid.
And then like, once you kind of realize who you are, then you can truly love
yourself for who you are and everything you bring to the table.
And then after you truly love yourself, then the next stage,
in my opinion, is you can truly love the people in your life,
you know, kind of for who they are.
And then after that, you really love everything and everyone for everything
(47:45):
they bring, knowing that it's necessary to be where we're at.
And so it's a moving target you know the journey to wellness is just that a journey,
i love it though thank you so much for taking the time today abigail i really
appreciate you you were paid to be here so you're hourly wages i'm happy to
have you either way thanks so much,
(48:10):
and remember what's good for you is good for the universe take care and make
it a great day Like, comment, and subscribe.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!