August 5, 2024 • 68 mins
From Cancer To Community: Steve Wilson's Story of Resillience
In today's inspiring episode, Michelle Lena is joined by her dear friend Steve Wilson, a man who has lived a remarkable life filled with achievements and resilience. From his early days playing baseball in Southern California to an illustrious 30-year career in healthcare, Steve's journey is nothing short of extraordinary.
Steve shares his personal story of overcoming significant health challenges, including surviving cancer twice. He discusses how these experiences shaped his perspective on life and led him to retire at the young age of 55. Listen in as Steve talks about his transition into retirement, his continued contributions to the community, and the powerful lessons he's learned along the way.
This episode is a testament to the power of resilience, the importance of serving others, and the beauty of living a limitless life. Whether you're facing your own challenges or looking for inspiration to make the most of your retirement, Steve's story will leave you motivated and uplifted.
- 00:00 - Michelle Lena: Steve Wilson transitioned into retirement at the ripe old age of 55
- 04:08 - Steve Wilson: School of Life foundation helped kids get straight A's
- 05:52 - George Stoltz worked in healthcare for 30 years before becoming a dentist
- 12:01 - Steve Wilson says he retired at age 55 after being diagnosed with cancer
- 18:25 - You said the word that really stood out to you was, I'm sorry
- 26:05 - Washington had a blood cancer that affected his red blood cells
- 28:49 - Michelle, when you got second cancer diagnosis, what was your mindset
- 36:47 - The sister who had the dream, Debbie, was a perfect match
- 38:51 - Michelle spent 46 days in the hospital after undergoing stem cell transplant
- 48:17 - Michelle says retirement is a gift to a fortunate few
- 55:14 - The book focuses on giving back and serving and expanding your sphere
- 59:21 - Life is a series of transitions, Michelle says in new book
Thank you for listening to today's show. Stay tuned for more episodes and join us in the journey to living a limitless life.
Brigham Young University https://www.byu.edu/
University of Iowa https://uiowa.edu/
American College of Healthcare Executives https://www.ache.org/
Dixie State University https://www.dixie.edu/
St. George Chamber of Commerce https://www.stgeorgechamber.com/
School of Life Foundation https://www.schooloflifefoundation.org/
St. George, Utah https://www.sgcity.org/
University of Utah Medical Center https://healthcare.utah.edu/
#Podcast #Resilience #Retirement #CommunityService #CancerSurvivor #PersonalGrowth #LimitlessLife
Keywords: podcast, resilience, retirement, community service, cancer survivor, personal growth, limitless life
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Hi, my name's Michelle Lena.
Lean in and listen with me.
Welcome to Limitless.
I am super excited about my guest today.
He's my dear friend.
His name's Steve Wilson, andI've had the privilege of knowing
him for the last 15 years.
He's done remarkable things with his life.
(00:36):
He wrote this book.
So let me give you just a littlebackground of my friend, Steve.
Steve was born and raisedin Southern California and
he grew up playing baseball.
And in fact, his senior year, hereceived the league's most outstanding
player, which awarded him a scholarshipto Brigham Young University.
(00:59):
He lived for two years.
On an Indian Navajo reservation.
I need to know more about that.
That is fascinating to me.
He did earn a bachelor'sdegree in sociology.
He has a master's degree in administrationhealthcare with an emphasis.
I need to learn how to saythat word, but that's okay.
(01:21):
From Brigham Young University.
And he was admitted into the Universityof Iowa and their hospital health
service administration, doctoral program.
He is also a member of the AmericanCollege of Healthcare Executives.
And was recognized as an honorarydoctorate of humanities from Dixie
(01:41):
State University, where he lives in St.
George, Utah.
Oh my gosh, St.
George is such anincredible, beautiful place.
If you haven't been there, youneed to go see beautiful St.
George down in the bottom of Utah.
For contributing And advancingthe community's health.
He absolutely did that.
He was, um, a huge part of the community.
(02:02):
He had a brilliant 30 year career.
And then he transitioned into retirementat the ripe old young age of 55.
I'm working on level 55.
I want to know how hecould retire at age 55.
He is currently enjoying many hobbiesand I'm working through retirement.
(02:24):
He just keeps leveling up what to do next.
He is a public speaker and he is writingbooks on the subject on how to retire.
This has afforded him a lot ofcreativity in his retirement.
He does real estate investments, He ownsa clinic that serves the needs of seniors.
(02:45):
He also does, um, mentoring foryoung single adults in his church.
And he's a very, very activemember of the community.
He's on the foundation forWashington County Schools and the
University of Utah Medical CenterFoundation as the ambassador for St.
George Chamber of Commerce.
(03:06):
Let his pride and joy out.
Absolutely is his family, hisbeautiful bride, his wife, Kathy.
They are parents to four daughters, twosons, and they have accomplished and
pursued many powerful things together.
They are a force for good inour community and in the world.
(03:28):
They're, I believe they'recrown jewels of his family.
Accomplishments would behis 15 beautiful grandkids.
And in his own words, they arethe brightest Beck, best looking
kids you'll ever see or meet.
And that's his unbiased opinion.
More importantly, Steve is just.
(03:48):
A powerhouse and what he has accomplishedand overcome is absolutely life changing.
And I want to really dive into hisstory and what he's gone through and
how he learned to live limitless.
Welcome, welcome my friendSteve Wilson to the podcast.
(04:13):
Welcome to Limitless.
Mr.
GQ is in the house.
Oh my gosh.
I'm just.
I am, I am very humbled and excitedto have a conversation with you today.
I have always looked up to youand admired you and you've always
(04:34):
treated me with such respect.
Um, we've known eachother for a long time.
Do you remember how we met?
School of Life Foundation.
School of Life Foundation, yes.
I don't even know how long ago wasthat like 15 years ago a long time
(04:59):
We're gonna say 15because I like that number
Yes, the School of Life Foundation forpeople who may not know what that is
It was an after school program thatI was Privileged to be a part of and
that you were a part of and we helpedkids get straight A's in life And
it was a really beautiful season andyou were a big part of that puzzle
(05:22):
and helped contribute and make thatpossible for the kids in Southern Utah.
And I believe it's branched out andJack has taken it across the world.
Jack Rolfe, who is the founderof the School of Life program.
Right.
Great program.
Happy to have been involved.
Me too.
It was such a beautiful season helpingthe kids and being a part of the community
(05:46):
and really making lives, um, change tohelp them graduate and to move forward.
So, you have done someremarkable things in your life.
So, let's just kind of, um, jump into it.
Um, when I read your introductionfrom your book, Next, This is,
you have accomplished so much.
(06:07):
I had no idea that you havedone so much in your life.
First of all, I want to justtalk about, you grew up in
Southern California, correct?
That is correct, about 30miles east of Los Angeles.
Okay, was it just ascrowded then as it is now?
Because when I go to SouthernCalifornia, it's, it's really full.
(06:31):
It is full and that's whyI'm not there any longer.
Um, but when I grew up, there were orangetrees, orange groves in the backyard.
And it was a fun placegrowing up as a kid.
Um, but it's too crowded for me now.
We do enjoy going to visit, butDo you still have family there?
(06:57):
Everyone has moved out.
Everyone has escaped from the, fromthe crowds, but it's a beautiful place.
I can't imagine growing up withorange trees in my backyard.
Orange is my favorite color and I loveoranges so that would make my heart so
happy just to walk out and pick an orange.
That had to be a beautiful childhood.
(07:17):
Well it was great for my dogSusie and I to be able to go
out and try to catch rabbits.
We never caught one butwe really loved chasing.
You tried.
Oh that's awesome.
You had a dog named Susie.
We all have that childhood dog.
My dog's name was, um, Bojo.
Um, Jojo.
So anyways, you grew up with me.
(07:38):
Playing baseball.
Do you still play baseball?
Curious.
You know, I root mygrandson on in his pursuits.
Um, love baseball.
I grew up with the only goal in mindto play shortstop for the Dodgers.
Listen, we're playing Scully every night,and, uh, I became a lifelong Dodger fan.
(08:05):
Oh, man.
I can't believe, looking back onit now, that my dad, before GPS,
would just tell me what freewayto take, what exit to get off on.
And I would drive with a couple offriends down to Dodger games, and we'd buy
bleacher seats and sit in center field.
(08:28):
I'm not sure how many, but we sawa lot of games and I love that.
And, um, I,
it's a long story, but,um, my dad was my agent.
Um, I had an opportunity tosign a professional contract.
(08:51):
They offered 18, 000 as a signing bonus.
My dad said, we want 50, 000.
Or he's going to go toschool and become a dentist.
That was the first I learnedthat I was going to be a dentist.
But my dad thought it was anexcellent negotiating technique.
(09:14):
And, uh, they didn't come up to 50, 000.
So I went to school on a baseballscholarship to Brigham Young University.
And, and that ended my career after that.
Oh my goodness.
Well, that is professionalbaseball player or dentist.
Um, and I don't thinkeither one of them happened.
(09:36):
I don't think you're a dentist.
Did you become a dentist?
No, I did not.
No, you, you, you worked inhealth care for 30 years.
Is that correct?
Tell me a little bit about your career.
That is correct.
Um, I loved my career.
I found the right place to makea contribution that I felt was
(09:58):
doing something positive forthe community where I lived.
Um, amazing people work in health care.
Whatever occupation, from nursing tomedicine to technicians, people who go
into health care have a great desireto help other people and it's just a
(10:19):
wonderful group of people to be around.
I love that.
Um, I spent 30 years and, um,at a certain point you recognize
that enough is enough and 30 yearswas enough for me and I loved it.
Took the opportunity to maximize theretirement plan to leave at age 55.
(10:42):
That is absolutely extraordinary.
First of all, congratulationson a beautiful career.
I lived in St.
George for 20 years and I understand theimpact and the love that you gave to the
community and I love that you recognizedthe Individuals, the humans that
(11:03):
sacrifice and who work in health care.
It is a very beautiful breed of humanswho sacrifice and serve others with
unconditional love and compassion.
And we have the best in St.
George and you really led abeautiful team of humans there.
It really is a legacy oflove that, that you have.
(11:25):
instilled in our community and as a memberof the community that lived there for a
long time, I just want to say thank you.
Oh, you're kind.
Thank you, but it wasn't me.
It's just a team of people.
When you have people who are focusedon a common goal, it's just a
wonderful experience and work nolonger becomes work, but a joy.
(11:48):
Yeah, and that isn't that thegoal just to make work a joy
and to work with joyful people.
So that was, I was fortunate, no question.
What a blessing.
What a blessing.
Um, let's just touch base.
You said you retired at age 55, correct?
(12:08):
Stop, stop.
Shut the front door.
I'm working on level 55.
I'm not retired, Steve.
Apparently, I need to take some notes fromyour book and figure out how to make that
happen so I can have that, um, legacy.
Because I'm not retired yet.
So how did you plan that out?
(12:29):
Was this always a goal for you to do this?
Oh, I have to So, howdid you make that happen?
When was the decision?
Well, it was really fairly easy.
Um, there does, I think for allof us, come a point when we feel,
(12:53):
well, for me it was the case ofhaving a cancer scare that caused me
to seriously consider the fact thatI did not want to die at my desk.
That you have to take care of yourself.
The opportunity to potup and examine your life.
Um, and, uh, recognize.
(13:15):
I always had a theoreticalunderstanding of mortality.
But when you're diagnosed with cancer,it becomes something different.
And you recognize that if there'ssomething more I want to be doing
with my life, you need to be thinkingabout that sooner rather than later
and not just continuing down the road.
(13:37):
So it became a wake up callthat caused me to think.
During the time that I was offrecovering from surgery, I examined
my retirement 401k and, and my pensionplan and determined that with 30 years
(13:58):
in at age 55 I was maximizing theretirement plan and I don't know what
it is I was wanting to work more for.
So the opportunity really came upbecause I worked for a wonderful
company that offered what issoon to be an antique, a pension.
(14:21):
Oh yes.
And, um, I thought, you know, I couldtake that pension and I could figure out
something else to do that might allow meto do more things that I wanted to do.
Uh, careers are great.
We all have careers.
And they're the means thatseparate us from starvation.
(14:50):
We continue to work because we growaccustomed to having three meals a day
and all of that, so we keep it going,but at a certain point you come to
recognize that, um, it only does somuch for me and I, I appreciate the
(15:13):
opportunity that I have to leave that,but, and that's really what it is.
I didn't start off with any sort ofgoal to write a book, but when I did
choose to retire, I had several ideasin mind of things that I wanted to do.
But it was really just acollection of disjointed thoughts.
(15:38):
So I sat down with the idea oftrying to, what do I do next?
Which is the question thatevery retiree must address.
Absolutely.
The easy part, and it doesn'tseem that way, we work our whole
life to try to put money away andplan for a future of retirement.
(16:02):
Yes.
Um, but the easy part isretiring from something.
The hard part is retiring to something.
Yes.
You have to retire to something.
Um, and that's what takes effort oneveryone's part to think through.
(16:25):
So, what's next?
What am I going to do in retirement?
How am I going to proceed with my life?
And, um, so I started off withthe idea of, Recording thoughts.
That was really a form of therapyfor me to try to figure out what's
(16:46):
important, what do I want to donext, what do I want to accomplish.
And it sounds like it's reallywell organized, it really wasn't.
I was just kind of playing it byear until thoughts began to come.
And as I did that, I started to writeit down, and at a certain point I
thought, I think this could be a book.
(17:11):
Now, I'm not an expert on retirement,so my book does not lend someone to
say, These are the steps you take.
It was lessons that I learnedas a result of being retired.
And as I learned lessons thatI wrote them down and tried to
capture what am I learning andhow do I use this going forward?
(17:36):
Um,
and I'm sure we can talk about that.
I've got a lot of thoughtsabout what that means.
Obviously, the first one isyou've got to retire to something.
It's not enough to just stop working.
Yes.
And do whatever you want.
Most people think, oh, it's easy.
I just stopped going to workand start doing whatever I want.
(18:01):
And most people decide, well,I'm, I'm going to travel.
I'm going to see the grandkids.
I'm going to play a little golfand have some leisure lunches.
Great.
What do you do the secondweek of retirement?
That's what I read in your book.
Yes.
You have to have a plan.
You have to understand the next, the nextgoal, the next ambition, the next event.
(18:25):
But I want to backtrack just a minute.
You kind of, um, skipped overa big portion of your life.
That really kind of set the tempo forwhere you are and for this season.
And you wrote it in your book and, um,words can't describe the weight I felt
(18:48):
and the pressing down on that moment.
You said you remember focusing on oneword, and it wasn't the word cancer.
You said the word that really stood out toyou that your doctor said was, I'm sorry.
You said you focused on the word sorry.
(19:08):
When he gave you thediagnosis that you had cancer,
What was it about that word?
Describe that more for me.
Tell me about that moment whenyou were sitting in the office
and your dear friend, Dr.
Cope, gave you this news.
And he said, Steve, I'msorry, you have cancer.
(19:31):
And, uh,
I didn't know how sorry he was.
I mean, does that mean there's nocure, there's no plan going forward?
This is it?
Do I need to write mychildren a letter tonight?
How sorry are you?
(19:53):
Um, that's what immediatelydrew my attention.
Yeah, that has a lot of weight whenyou put it in that perspective.
Like, what kind of sorry is it?
Um, I mean, cancer.
We all have had experienceswith cancer, unfortunately.
It affects every familyat some level or another.
(20:14):
And, um, my earliest recollectionswas with a grandfather who
was diagnosed with cancer.
And I can remember my mom and the painthat it immediately brought to her.
Because back 50, 60 years ago, cancer wasa death sentence and was almost immediate.
(20:36):
And, um, So you have all kinds of thoughtsin mind as to what cancer might be.
But when he said, I'msorry you have cancer,
I've seen people in modern medicaltreatment go through and and there
(20:58):
are cures for cancer that we never hadin the past and people can do well.
So it was My immediate responseto him was, How sorry are you?
What does that mean?
Are you sorry that it'sgoing to be painful?
That I'm going to have time off of work?
(21:19):
That it'll be fine?
Or, do I need to write my childrena letter tonight, saying goodbye?
What person said that to you?
Immediately.
You're going to do fine.
You've got it early, and you'rehealthy, and those kinds of things.
And it turned out well.
(21:40):
You did catch it early, but yourtreatment from my viewpoint as your
friend and watching you go throughit, it was, it was a big journey.
Um, and it took, it took quite a while.
Can you explain a little bit aboutyour journey through it for other
people who have cancer and whatkind of cancer do you, did you have?
(22:04):
I've had, I'm a two time cancer survivor.
So the book talks aboutmy first experience.
Yeah, I was working in career andthat's what gave me the thought about
my mortality and do I continue workingtill I die at my desk or what do I do?
And that led me to retirement.
(22:26):
Yeah, when you have that wake up call,it's definitely like a red light.
It's a stop light.
Like, my goodness, what is my priority?
Like you said, you know, am I just havingthis career, this beautiful career,
but it's just keeping away starvationor could I be doing something more?
With my next season in life and whenyou have this this word, you know that
(22:49):
yes We can deal with more easily thanwe could when your grandfather had it.
I mean, but it was still triggering Imean, that's your reaction like oh my gosh
cancer cause people to die at least inmy family You know, I said it's touched
every family But it was kind of yourwake up call to kind of stop and go.
Hey, I need to change some things However,catching it early in prostate cancer,
(23:14):
we've made tremendous advancements intreatment and being able to, to halt
its progress and really affect the cure.
After I retired, I was about sevenyears into it, maybe a little bit more.
Then I had my next cancer episode.
(23:39):
This is probably the oneI'm more familiar with.
And
That one was, uh, morechallenging than there were many
ugly days associated with it.
But I, I had a, a rare blood cancer.
It just suddenly occurred.
(23:59):
Now, one of the thingsWhat was the symptom?
How did you know?
Well, um, one of the things thathappens, I think, for all of us is
that we don't tend to give much.
As long as we're healthy Life is good,and we continue to roll along, and,
(24:20):
um, we are all healthy until we're not.
And it's a surprise tolearn when we're not.
I had, uh, I've always beenfairly active, and I've enjoyed,
um, being actively involved.
I've, I've run marathons, I'vedone, um, A lot of outside activity.
(24:46):
I ran a marathon with my daughter,um, one Saturday in October, St.
George Marathon, and thefollowing week I decided to go
out and just do a little jog.
I went about a mile andwas totally exhausted.
I thought, oh, Steve,you're just overdoing it.
(25:08):
Take a couple of days offand let's do it again.
You know, I did that.
I was totally spent, and as time wenton, I just had less and less energy.
It just was like a ballrolling off a table.
Wow.
I came to a point where I couldn'twalk up the stairs of my house
(25:31):
to get to a family gathering.
I had to get on my hands and knees.
Of course, being a man, Ithought I just needed more rest.
My wife immediately said,Steve, something's wrong.
You gotta go see a doctor.
Yes, Kathy.
Go Kathy.
We love Kathy.
Yeah, I can see you just like, no,I just, just let me crawl to the
(25:54):
bed and I just need another coupleof days of R& R and I'll be fine.
Your strong mindset.
I just went to bed earlierand thought it'll be fine.
I'm, I'm okay.
But it did go through the process,and um, it took quite a while.
It probably took four or five weeksto figure out what was going on.
(26:18):
They ran every test thatthey could think of.
First thought they had was, perhaps youhave a bleeding ulcer, and you're losing
blood, which is causing your energy to go.
And I said, well, I knowit's not a bleeding ulcer.
I would have had one ofthose when I was working.
(26:40):
Why I retire, but not, not sevenyears in, in, into my next chapter.
This chapter's good.
So I went through the testing, yes.
And finally they came back andsaid, here's the situation.
You have a, a blood cancer.
Basically it affected my,my, uh, red blood cells.
(27:04):
And the red blood cells carryoxygen through the body.
And the oxygen gives you energy and myblood cells were not developing correctly
and I was not getting the benefit.
And the doctor did say,after I went through several
specialists, there is a cure.
(27:26):
And I thought, great, is it a pill?
He said no.
I said I don't want to take anysize pill, I'll be happy to do that.
He said no.
It will be a bone marrow transplant.
And, um,
(27:47):
for some reason I had a visionof bones being pulverized and
extremely painful or whatever.
What is a bone marrow transplant?
You have to get themarrow out of the bones.
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
It's officially a stem cell transplant.
So We went through that process and ofcourse Kathy at my side and they said
(28:14):
our next task would be to find a donor.
And um, I looked at Kathy and Isaid to the doctor, finally a good
reason for having six children.
Oh my gosh.
(28:34):
Um, was one of your kids Itwon't be children, but the
chance will be a sibling.
(29:02):
It was one where there's clearlymuch greater risk of your survival.
So, they didn't really have to say that.
I knew by virtue of the whole discussion,that this was not going to be, Something
simple and they weren't passing it off.
(29:25):
Um, but instead, I can tell youMichelle, the hardest thing I ever did
was getting to a position where I wasready to proceed with the transplant.
I had sat down with the doctorsas I entered the hospital and
had my last physical exam.
(29:48):
And I asked the doctor, I said, so,what are the chances we're successful?
I thought success would be thatI'd return to my normal activity
and that I'd be feeling pretty muchthe same as before the diagnosis.
And he opened up his little folder onthe desk and he says, we believe you've
(30:12):
got a 59 percent chance of survival.
I said, wait a minute, survival?
You mean there's a 41 percent chanceI'm going to die in the hospital?
And he said, yes, that's a wholedifferent level of seriousness.
(30:36):
And how did you make with that?
What, what, what was your mindset?
I mean, when you hear that news andyou're dealt these cards that were so
unexpected, you just ran a marathon andyou were feeling on top of the world.
You're in this beautiful seasonof Retirement and figuring
out what you're doing next.
(30:57):
And then you have this.
I don't even know how to explain it.
I took the wind out of you, literally.
What was your mindset?
Your mindset, you create avery close focus on what's
immediately in front of you.
(31:19):
I really wasn't looking down the road.
I was looking at, okay,what do we need to do?
And how can I best prepare?
You just take one step at a time.
And, uh, one of the, one of thequotes that I really like came from
Winston Churchill, and I don't knowthe situation, but he once said,
(31:48):
when you're goingthrough hell, keep going.
Don't stop and sit on the curb.
When you're going through hell,keep going, get through it.
We're going to hell.
That's the whole focus of what do Ido next and how do I best prepare for
the next step, that sort of thing.
(32:09):
I think that's really powerful.
I think just that statement.
And I'm also related to WinstonChurchill, so I'm just going to
say, hey, my family helped you.
You're welcome.
But that's true.
I'm afraid too many peoplemight potentially get stuck.
(32:30):
They get bad news andthey get Right there.
Yeah, it's so true.
And you just got to move forward,move like, and I love your
perspective, you know, okay, Ican't look too far down the road.
I'm just going to look at the next piece,the next step, and just stay really
present and then do one thing at a time.
(32:54):
I, I think that's a good analogy forevery part of life, but especially
when you're hit with something so hard.
And so overwhelming.
You know, I have, um, youhave all kinds of thoughts.
And the, the journey that I went on, onceyou're told you have a serious cancer like
(33:18):
that, it's not something that you wantto get up and shout it from the rooftops.
You basically close in and let it,it's just something that is inside
of you that you're trying to process.
You're trying to understand what itmeans and where you go and what you do
and of course for Kathy and I and ourimmediate family, all of my children
(33:42):
and my son in laws, daughter in laws,um, it's really a case of they were
all aware of it, but I didn't share it.
I didn't share it with my extended family.
I have two sisters, so myodds went from six to two.
(34:02):
I have two sisters.
I didn't want to tell them becausethey were caretakers for my mom and I
didn't want my mom to hear that I havethis disease without knowing that I
knew exactly what steps we were goingto take and it was going to be alright
(34:23):
and I'm going to get through this.
I wanted to know what the plan was.
So we went through a fairlylengthy process of evaluating
where do I go for the transplant.
I didn't share it.
Okay.
I, I admire that you wantedto give your mom hope.
And it just reminds me, you know, you'rean adult, you're, you're grown, but she's
(34:48):
still your mom and you're still her son.
And I love that you're like,no, I can't tell my mama.
And unless I had some hope anddirection, so she doesn't worry as much.
I mean, that just shows yourcharacter just right there.
And that it was intimate and it was just.
For your family to supportyou and to take care of you.
(35:09):
You know, I don't know when you sharedit, when I found out, but, um, I know
that I was grateful to find out becauseas, as your friend, what I could offer
was prayers and sending you energy andlove and the support, but to, to be in
that space and to say, hold on, let megather some pieces before we move forward.
(35:33):
It just.
Like you said, I need todo one piece at a time.
Well, it's not something thatyou want to dump on someone.
There's nothing shecould have done for me.
Yeah.
And it would just be something thatwould bring her more worry and concern.
Yeah.
You can't do anything with it.
So as I went through that processand we evaluated different medical
(35:56):
centers where we might seek treatment,
and it was still somewhat jumbled,But I was formulating a plan.
I got a call one morning from mysister Tammy, my younger sister.
(36:17):
Um, she's a school counselor.
She kind of became my therapistthroughout most of the journey.
A person I can talk toand reflect things with.
But we were just chatting as we often did.
I'm pretty close in my mindto my two little sisters.
As we concluded our conversation, Tammysaid to me, she said, I got the strangest
(36:47):
phone call from Debbie this morning.
Debbie's my other sister.
I said, really?
What was so strange about it?
And she said, she told me thatshe had a dream last night.
I said, really?
What did she dream?
(37:07):
She said, she dreamed you'resick and you need her help.
Oh my gosh.
I just started crying.
I started crying and then I was ableto relate to my sister all of what's
happening and that I needed her andDebbie to go through the testing
(37:28):
process to see if they might be a donor.
What an incredible experience and gift.
I mean, that literally, when youtold me that, gave me chills.
It gave me chills and Ijust broke down in tears.
I told her, and of course, bothof them, after learning, were more
(37:49):
than happy to go through quite anextended process of trying to identify
whether they would be a match.
As it turns out, my therapistsister, Tammy, was not a match.
The sister who had the dream, Debbie,was a 10 for 10 perfect match.
(38:13):
Oh, oh my gosh, I just got chills again.
Oh.
And I, um, so it gave me thecourage to, to go forward.
knowing that I had the bestpossible opportunity for this to
be successful and to go through it.
(38:34):
A 10 out of 10.
It was amazing.
Um, it was not a coincidence.
I felt very blessed andI do continue today.
The way the transplant worksof stem cells, they basically
put me in the hospital and Ispent 46 days in the hospital.
(38:58):
They use a very high powered chemotherapyto eliminate your immune system.
I became a bubble boy.
I would be susceptible to any infectionand you're isolated but basically they
clear your body out of your abilityto fight off infection and then they
(39:19):
introduce her stem cells which wasalmost like a blood transfusion.
Into my body.
And the, the goal is to have herstem cells set up housekeeping
and live inside of my body.
Is there a rejection periodthat you guys really close?
(39:40):
How, what is it?
I spent another 60 days in case therewas a rejection living by the hospital.
And, um, but the idea is that we justtransfer her normal blood making Infection
fighting capability into my body.
(40:02):
Modern medicine is amazing.
What she was a 10 out of 10 and you hadthis transplant and how did it turn out?
It's amazing to me, Michelle.
It blows me away to think I justcan't, I just, that my sister stem
(40:23):
cells produce her blood insidemy body that keeps me alive.
So
if you were to draw my blood sample, thelab results would come past the fact that
I'm a middle aged postmenopausal woman.
How does that feel?
(40:44):
Did you get hot flashes yet?
You know, I think you'll be thefirst to tell you that I do much
more laundry than I ever did before.
Oh yeah.
The biggest positive side effectis every day is a blessing.
That you're here.
(41:05):
I am.
I do believe in God.
And I have an overwhelming
testimony that if man and womanscientists can figure out how to
transplant my sister's stem cellsinto my body and keep me alive,
(41:31):
Heavenly Father can resurrect us.
That is beautiful.
I don't believe in coincidences.
I believe that dream happened and thatshe was supposed to give you this gift
and it did come from divine power.
It came from our creator and thatyour legacy could go on and you could
still be here and unbelievable gift.
(41:54):
I, I can't even imagine theconversation that you had and
with her Michelle, you cannot,
her family and my family joinedtogether in my hospital room.
At the time they brought herstem cells in after they had
(42:17):
eliminated my immune system.
As I laid in the hospital bedhooked up to an IV, they put
her stem cells on the pole.
And then we had a short family prayerand then they turned the spigot on
and her stem cells came right downthat tube and went right into my arm.
(42:39):
It was just, I can't, I can't describe it.
I have tears.
I can't even imagine.
I mean, literally life giving, literallylife flowing through those tubes into you.
Yes, absolutely.
What a sacred.
Yes.
(42:59):
And,
you know, um, Michelle, I thinkhuman nature is to do everything
we can to prevent ourselves fromsuffering or going through hard times.
The fact of the matter is, hard times areas much a gift as good times and often
(43:26):
we learn much more from the hard timesand they become much more meaningful
and shape us into the people we are.
I mean, it sounds crazy.
Looking back, the things I learnedas a result of fighting for my
life going through the transplantare the most meaningful lessons
(43:49):
that I've probably had in my life.
It's, it's so accurate.
I mean, when we sit in the season ofour darkest moments in those shadows,
the greatest light is given to us.
Um, and the greatestexperiences and knowledge.
(44:10):
And wisdom come from those moments.
And so as you emerged from thatexperience and now you have this gift,
this wisdom and this knowledge, what isyour big takeaway after going through?
(44:30):
It's just, my heart is pounding.
My tears are right here.
I can't even imagine goingthrough that experience.
And then where are you now?
I mean, what's your mindset now after?
Well,
as you might imagine, it doesn'tcrystallize into one thought.
(44:54):
But, um,
one of the things I think isalso human nature, particularly
as we maybe reach retirement,
is people immediately turn to one ofthe tools they used in the workplace,
(45:16):
and that was to focus on a to do list.
And we assemble all the things thatwe might want to do and we go through
that checklist and often travel is apart of that or whatever it might be.
One of the things that becameabundantly clear to me is that
(45:41):
our focus should be moreon creating a to be list.
Ooh, I like that.
A to be list.
To do is not, is not going tobring joy because sooner or later
you will check all of your boxes.
(46:02):
That's not who you are.
We are human beings for a reason.
We must have purpose.
We must have direction in our lives.
So, focusing on a to be list,and it can be as simple as
I want to be a great spouse.
(46:24):
I want to be a good dad.
I want to be a great grandparent,whatever it might be.
But as you begin to focus and createa to be list, the things, the things
that you need to do to accomplishthat become immediately clear.
(46:47):
We spend way too much time thinkingabout what shall I do in retirement.
The real Gift and the blessing iswhat do you want to be in retirement?
That is so poignant What do I want to be?
The first question I wrote downthat I didn't even ask you it says
(47:09):
describe yourself without titles
I'm a creative problem solver.
I believe that's probably theskill that I've always had.
It ended up being applied ina particular setting under a
particular position description.
(47:31):
But I really think that I'm able tolook at situations and find alternative
ways of considering how to address it.
And That has brought me a lot of, of joybeing involved in community activities,
community boards, other kinds of things.
(47:53):
Um,
but I, I hope, I hope I'm a, I'm a friend.
I hope I'm a person who, uh, seesneeds for others and puts them out
there as something that I want to do.
I mean, if I had to distillwhat I think retirement is,
(48:15):
retirement is a gift, a show.
Very few people in the world.
I mean, we are, we have adistorted view of the world.
If we get out and go to the thirdworld, we recognize just what a
blessing we have to live in America.
(48:37):
To have the blessings thatwe have available to us.
A very small percentage of the humanpopulation can spend any time thinking
each day about anything other than whatam I going to eat today and how am I going
to find that food and take care of myself.
(48:58):
To be able to retire and separateyourself from the day to day demands
of a career only comes to a fortunatefew people when we look at it in the
context of the world's population.
So powerful when you put it that way.
It absolutely is a gift and weforget about the larger perspective.
(49:25):
And that you had this gift and, and whereyou're sitting in this season and with
this gift and what are you doing with it?
You've accomplished alot since you've retired.
Even going through this,this cancer scare twice.
Some
of the things that you are accomplishingand have done and traveled and seen,
(49:46):
share some of those things with me.
Things that I've done?
Yes.
Let me finish that thought.
It's a gift to a fortunate few.
Use it to make your family, neighborhood,community, and the world better.
(50:09):
Get involved.
Give back.
Give.
Use the skills, talents, and abilitiesthat you gained as a result of your
career to benefit those around you.
If you don't do that, in my wayof thinking, you're committing
a crime against humanity.
(50:29):
If you just take the skills, the lessons,the experience that you gained, and keep
it to yourself in retirement, you'recommitting a crime against humanity.
And I would really believethat that is truly the case.
Um, um, you know, I'm, I'm fortunate,as you mentioned, that I've lived in
(50:55):
my community for an extended periodof time, was involved in getting to
know many people across the community.
One of the things that's been a greatblessing to me is to be invited to serve.
in the various not forprofit organizations.
And I've really enjoyed andappreciated the fact that after I
(51:19):
retired, people weren't asking me todo that as a result of my position.
When you're the hospital administrator,there's many organizations that
want you to serve on their boards.
When I retired, it became extremelyspecial when people invited me because
I thought they weren't inviting myposition, they were inviting me.
(51:43):
And I've been fortunate to beable to serve on the County
School Board Foundation.
on the University of UtahMedical Center Foundation.
I've been able to serve in what'scalled the Institute for Continued
Learning, which is focused onseniors in our community taking
(52:07):
classes at the university locally.
But I've looked also for lemonade stands.
I really love lemonade stands.
I love these.
Of course you do.
They put themselves out there.
and are trying to be successful.
My dad taught me long ago.
(52:29):
I remember remarking to him, somebodycame to the door and sold him a
pencil or something like that.
And I remember telling my dad,I said, Hey, we've got pencils.
Dad, why'd you buy that?
And he said, whenever a young personputs themselves out there and tries to
be successful, you need to help them.
(52:52):
My dad was the person who would.
Go out of his way anytime he saw alemonade stand to be able to pay a young
person pouring lemonade for their effort.
That's carried over.
It's really hard for me.
It's gotta be an unusual trafficpattern for me to not find
(53:12):
my way to the lemonade stand.
So we can do that in so many differentways if we just open our eyes.
Opportunities are all around us.
I think that's beautiful.
It just goes back to what you havesaid, um, throughout our conversation
to stop and to be present in the momentand to even see the lemonade stand and
(53:35):
to take that time to go encourage theseyoung kids to keep pursuing something.
And I also love that you said it's goingto be, uh, uh, crimes against humanity.
If you don't use the talents that you.
required in that, that you earn duringyour career and you don't take that
(54:00):
gift and still give back with it.
You have to use it.
I love, love that.
And I think more people need to dothat because I know many people who
retire and they just like go off andjust do golf and lunch, you know, and
that's two weeks turns into two months.
And then they, I believe morepeople need to give back.
More people need to stop atlemonade stands and more people
(54:22):
need to be still involved.
You have talent in, in all of thiswisdom and knowledge and experience.
It's the key, Michelle, serving others.
Otherwise, your retirement world willclose in around you and become smaller.
And you'll become depressed.
(54:43):
And there's a whole lot of peoplewho retire and are depressed.
Yeah, yes, that is the key.
They do, they get small andwe can't, we can't live small.
And that's, I think the time toactually expand is in my season.
And as I move forward towardsyour season, we need to expand.
(55:05):
That's so beautiful.
Well, think about, I wouldencourage everyone to think about
what are the things that, whereyou could make a difference.
The fact of the matter is, asyou well know, there are not
for profit organizations inevery community who need help.
(55:28):
Yes.
Compile a list of things that might beattractive to you, and then reach out.
Reach out, call, and make an appointmentwith the director of that organization.
Go sit down, interview them, seewhat they're involved in, see where
they need help, and say, hey, I'dlike to help, how can I do that?
(55:49):
But, the opportunities are there,and they're available to us.
They are.
I think sometimes we just kind of sitback and wait for people to approach
us, look at it, and then go serve.
The more you give, themore you'll receive.
(56:09):
One of the things that I learnedwhen I went through my cancer,
there was a group of young ladiesthat lived in my neighborhood
that formed the Kindness Club.
And they just went around trying to findopportunities for people that needed help.
(56:30):
And during my long convalescence,I had several visits.
And it became abundantly clear to me thatkindness can't be, can't be given away.
It always comes back.
You can't give it away.
(56:51):
Same thing applies for service.
Service is something you can't give away.
It'll always come back in avariety of ways that we might
not have fully appreciated.
And that helps to make your worldbigger, because we have to have a
reason to get up in the morning.
We have to have a purpose.
(57:12):
And oftentimes, people's only purposewas defined by their position, and
they end up losing their person,and they trade it for a position.
Yes.
You must fight to be cultivating intereststhat are outside of the position that
you've held that paid you every two weeks.
(57:34):
I love that you said kindness expands.
I think that is what we need more of.
We need more kindness.
We need to realize that when we do that,when we serve others, when we just do the
smallest acts, I love that there was thislittle community, but it does expand.
And that.
(57:55):
Powerful when that energy goes out.
Uh, you, you illustrate some of thesepoints that you just said in the book.
And, um, I love for people to getthe book and to read more about what
you're saying about how to give back,how to have kindness, how to level up
and really break down some barriersand expectations about retirement.
(58:20):
Well, that would be wonderful.
It's not.
It's not on the New YorkTimes bestseller list.
You can't get it through Amazon.
So you'd have to reachout and send me an email.
Well, we might just haveto share your email.
Cause I'm sure there's going to bea few people who are interested in
(58:40):
how to redefine their next season.
And this isn't just for retirement.
These are lessons thatwe can take right now.
Exactly.
It has nothing to do with retirement.
It has everything to do as being.
A good human and a good person.
And just sitting in those moments of usingwhat you have, giving back and serving
(59:03):
and expanding your sphere, whateverthat is, and that's powerful at any age.
Great.
I'm glad you caught that vision.
It's really interesting tome in its simplest form.
Life consists of a series of transitions.
(59:23):
Thoreau said that, you'llremember him, Henry David.
Thoreau said that going to, from,is the history of every one of us.
We are constantly going to something,from something, whatever that might be.
And I just think life isa series of transitions.
(59:47):
And, uh, one of the Examples Iuse in the book is, remember when
you retired from high school?
Yes.
To me, perfect analogy forretirement from career.
When you went through high school,your whole world revolved around
(01:00:11):
your schedule, getting to classat 8, 15 or whatever it was.
Your social network was everybody thatwas there that you went to school with.
You went to football games on Fridaynight and then had pizza afterwards.
You had everything that gave youreason and purpose and your position
(01:00:33):
was well defined in high school.
And then you graduated.
Now what do I do?
And you went through the process ofeither going on for further education,
redefining, creating a new network ofcolleagues and classmates or co workers.
(01:00:55):
You didn't stop.
You found a new way.
to something from something.
Your first job, um, remember you retiredfrom being single and being married?
You have so many different transitions.
(01:01:17):
Remember when you went from being inthat marriage to now being a parent?
I mean, the transitionsjust never end for us.
And so retirement really isn't anydifferent than that, but we tend to make
it seem like it's such a bigger thing.
It's just another transition in our life.
(01:01:39):
So it's important that we kind of thinkabout how do we make our transitions.
I think that's beautiful andthat's a great analogy all
the way back to high school.
So even our younger listeners canrealize that that's what life is about.
These transformational moments and eventsand seasons and we get to have so many
(01:02:01):
and that is the best part of life thatwith every season there's going to be
highs and lows there's going to be happyand sad but they're experiences and
hopefully we learn from them and we expandfrom them and we grow from them but to
embrace them to embrace the transitionbecause you never know what's going
(01:02:22):
to be next and that is a powerful Oh,
you said that so well, you shouldhave written the book for me.
It took me a good long time.
I thought many times that my 10thgrade English teacher Would have
(01:02:43):
rolled over in their grave to thinkthat I was writing a book, which is
why it made it so difficult for me.
That's why they have editors.
I, I, I admire that you, I remember whenwe met and you're like, I'm going to write
a book and it's going to be called next.
And it's stuck in my mind.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, you can justdecide to write a book and just write it.
(01:03:04):
So I have been waiting andwaiting for years to get ahold
of your book and to read it.
Cause I am so proud of you.
Not just for the book, but for thecharacter and the determination and
the passion and the kindness and thatyou have always expanded your world
and you allow me to be a part of it.
(01:03:25):
I'm, it's just, I, I love our friendship.
I adore you to death.
Oh, Michelle, You are so kind.
Um, I didn't know that Icouldn't not do the book.
I mean, I didn't know that I could.
I just decided I would.
There you go.
(01:03:46):
And, uh, you know, that'sIt's amazing, Michelle.
I think you've had many, many folksthat you've impacted their life by just
helping them to see we limit ourselves.
There's really no limit.
Um,
(01:04:07):
I came across a littlestatement some time ago.
It's on a, I think it's on a postcard.
Where do you draw the line?
We end up drawing the linesourselves as to what is possible
and what is not possible.
(01:04:29):
We can make it anything we want it to be.
Um, if we really think through that.
And I like that.
I like your limitless messagethat you put out there.
Um, anyway, it's been a delight to be ableto spend time with you and I appreciate
you inviting me to do that, Michelle.
(01:04:52):
Well, thank you for being an example onhow to break barriers, how to shatter
limits, and how to live limitless.
In spite of all of the challenges,you've just expanded and you've
led with kindness and courage.
And I thank you for beinga part of my podcast today.
I welcome all of my listenersto like, comment, and share.
(01:05:16):
Lean in and listen with me, Michelle Lena.
Welcome to Limitless.
Thank you, Steve, for being a part of mycommunity and being on my podcast today.
Much love.
Thank you, Michelle.
Thank you.
We just had an amazingconversation with my friend, Steve.
It was absolutely just brilliant.
(01:05:36):
He is such a genuine, real human,and his story Is fantastic.
What we can overcome and what we cando as humans, there's truly no limit.
He absolutely is an example of breakingthrough some major barriers in life.
(01:06:00):
Overcame so many huge obstacles to behere and to learn how to live next.
His book is called next, um, howto transition into retirement.
But what we really learned in this podcastepisode was really the transition starts.
As soon as you leave high school,you transition into different
(01:06:24):
seasons and we have to learn toadapt and to overcome and to expand.
We touch on kindness and we touch onhow, how to become and how to use the
talents that we are given in our careerand in life and what to do with them when
(01:06:46):
Life is Okay, I didn't like any of that.
I'm overthinking.
Just wrap it up, Michelle.
Alright,
3, 2, 1.
I would just like to do a wrap up.
About the conversation I just hadwith my dear friend, Steve, and what a
(01:07:09):
remarkable, powerful human he is and thestories that he shared and the compassion
and the love and the drive and just theexample of how to live when life gets
really hard and really challenging.
What do you do?
How do you sit in that space?
(01:07:29):
How do you break down those barriersand how do you learn to live limitless?
He is a beautiful example of all of that.
And I am so excited that hewas a part of my podcast.
He really, Taught some powerful lessonsthat we can all take at any age to
(01:07:51):
live a better life and to set ourselfup for success starting from high
school all the way through retirement.
If you don't use it,you're going to lose it.
And it is absolutely imperative.
One of the quotes he saidis by Winston Churchill.
If you're going through something hard orif you're going through hell, Keep going.
(01:08:17):
And how do you do that?
Well, he's going to give us step bystep instructions on how to go through
something hard, how to go through yourown personal hell and get through it.
That's my dog, Polly.
Anyways, thanks for beinga part of my community.
Thanks for being in my neighborhood.
Keep leaning in.
Keep listening with me, Michelle Lena.
(01:08:41):
You can't go over it.
You can't go under it.
Let's go through the shit together.
Welcome to Limitless.
Hi, my name's Michelle Lena.
Lean in and listen with me.
Welcome to Limitless.
I am super excited about my guest today.
He's my dear friend.
His name's Steve Wilson, andI've had the privilege of knowing
him for the last 15 years.
He's done remarkable things with his life.
(00:36):
He wrote this book.
So let me give you just a littlebackground of my friend, Steve.
Steve was born and raisedin Southern California and
he grew up playing baseball.
And in fact, his senior year, hereceived the league's most outstanding
player, which awarded him a scholarshipto Brigham Young University.
(00:59):
He lived for two years.
On an Indian Navajo reservation.
I need to know more about that.
That is fascinating to me.
He did earn a bachelor'sdegree in sociology.
He has a master's degree in administrationhealthcare with an emphasis.
I need to learn how to saythat word, but that's okay.
(01:21):
From Brigham Young University.
And he was admitted into the Universityof Iowa and their hospital health
service administration, doctoral program.
He is also a member of the AmericanCollege of Healthcare Executives.
And was recognized as an honorarydoctorate of humanities from Dixie
(01:41):
State University, where he lives in St.
George, Utah.
Oh my gosh, St.
George is such anincredible, beautiful place.
If you haven't been there, youneed to go see beautiful St.
George down in the bottom of Utah.
For contributing And advancingthe community's health.
He absolutely did that.
He was, um, a huge part of the community.
(02:02):
He had a brilliant 30 year career.
And then he transitioned into retirementat the ripe old young age of 55.
I'm working on level 55.
I want to know how hecould retire at age 55.
He is currently enjoying many hobbiesand I'm working through retirement.
(02:24):
He just keeps leveling up what to do next.
He is a public speaker and he is writingbooks on the subject on how to retire.
This has afforded him a lot ofcreativity in his retirement.
He does real estate investments, He ownsa clinic that serves the needs of seniors.
(02:45):
He also does, um, mentoring foryoung single adults in his church.
And he's a very, very activemember of the community.
He's on the foundation forWashington County Schools and the
University of Utah Medical CenterFoundation as the ambassador for St.
George Chamber of Commerce.
(03:06):
Let his pride and joy out.
Absolutely is his family, hisbeautiful bride, his wife, Kathy.
They are parents to four daughters, twosons, and they have accomplished and
pursued many powerful things together.
They are a force for good inour community and in the world.
(03:28):
They're, I believe they'recrown jewels of his family.
Accomplishments would behis 15 beautiful grandkids.
And in his own words, they arethe brightest Beck, best looking
kids you'll ever see or meet.
And that's his unbiased opinion.
More importantly, Steve is just.
(03:48):
A powerhouse and what he has accomplishedand overcome is absolutely life changing.
And I want to really dive into hisstory and what he's gone through and
how he learned to live limitless.
Welcome, welcome my friendSteve Wilson to the podcast.
(04:13):
Welcome to Limitless.
Mr.
GQ is in the house.
Oh my gosh.
I'm just.
I am, I am very humbled and excitedto have a conversation with you today.
I have always looked up to youand admired you and you've always
(04:34):
treated me with such respect.
Um, we've known eachother for a long time.
Do you remember how we met?
School of Life Foundation.
School of Life Foundation, yes.
I don't even know how long ago wasthat like 15 years ago a long time
(04:59):
We're gonna say 15because I like that number
Yes, the School of Life Foundation forpeople who may not know what that is
It was an after school program thatI was Privileged to be a part of and
that you were a part of and we helpedkids get straight A's in life And
it was a really beautiful season andyou were a big part of that puzzle
(05:22):
and helped contribute and make thatpossible for the kids in Southern Utah.
And I believe it's branched out andJack has taken it across the world.
Jack Rolfe, who is the founderof the School of Life program.
Right.
Great program.
Happy to have been involved.
Me too.
It was such a beautiful season helpingthe kids and being a part of the community
(05:46):
and really making lives, um, change tohelp them graduate and to move forward.
So, you have done someremarkable things in your life.
So, let's just kind of, um, jump into it.
Um, when I read your introductionfrom your book, Next, This is,
you have accomplished so much.
(06:07):
I had no idea that you havedone so much in your life.
First of all, I want to justtalk about, you grew up in
Southern California, correct?
That is correct, about 30miles east of Los Angeles.
Okay, was it just ascrowded then as it is now?
Because when I go to SouthernCalifornia, it's, it's really full.
(06:31):
It is full and that's whyI'm not there any longer.
Um, but when I grew up, there were orangetrees, orange groves in the backyard.
And it was a fun placegrowing up as a kid.
Um, but it's too crowded for me now.
We do enjoy going to visit, butDo you still have family there?
(06:57):
Everyone has moved out.
Everyone has escaped from the, fromthe crowds, but it's a beautiful place.
I can't imagine growing up withorange trees in my backyard.
Orange is my favorite color and I loveoranges so that would make my heart so
happy just to walk out and pick an orange.
That had to be a beautiful childhood.
(07:17):
Well it was great for my dogSusie and I to be able to go
out and try to catch rabbits.
We never caught one butwe really loved chasing.
You tried.
Oh that's awesome.
You had a dog named Susie.
We all have that childhood dog.
My dog's name was, um, Bojo.
Um, Jojo.
So anyways, you grew up with me.
(07:38):
Playing baseball.
Do you still play baseball?
Curious.
You know, I root mygrandson on in his pursuits.
Um, love baseball.
I grew up with the only goal in mindto play shortstop for the Dodgers.
Listen, we're playing Scully every night,and, uh, I became a lifelong Dodger fan.
(08:05):
Oh, man.
I can't believe, looking back onit now, that my dad, before GPS,
would just tell me what freewayto take, what exit to get off on.
And I would drive with a couple offriends down to Dodger games, and we'd buy
bleacher seats and sit in center field.
(08:28):
I'm not sure how many, but we sawa lot of games and I love that.
And, um, I,
it's a long story, but,um, my dad was my agent.
Um, I had an opportunity tosign a professional contract.
(08:51):
They offered 18, 000 as a signing bonus.
My dad said, we want 50, 000.
Or he's going to go toschool and become a dentist.
That was the first I learnedthat I was going to be a dentist.
But my dad thought it was anexcellent negotiating technique.
(09:14):
And, uh, they didn't come up to 50, 000.
So I went to school on a baseballscholarship to Brigham Young University.
And, and that ended my career after that.
Oh my goodness.
Well, that is professionalbaseball player or dentist.
Um, and I don't thinkeither one of them happened.
(09:36):
I don't think you're a dentist.
Did you become a dentist?
No, I did not.
No, you, you, you worked inhealth care for 30 years.
Is that correct?
Tell me a little bit about your career.
That is correct.
Um, I loved my career.
I found the right place to makea contribution that I felt was
(09:58):
doing something positive forthe community where I lived.
Um, amazing people work in health care.
Whatever occupation, from nursing tomedicine to technicians, people who go
into health care have a great desireto help other people and it's just a
(10:19):
wonderful group of people to be around.
I love that.
Um, I spent 30 years and, um,at a certain point you recognize
that enough is enough and 30 yearswas enough for me and I loved it.
Took the opportunity to maximize theretirement plan to leave at age 55.
(10:42):
That is absolutely extraordinary.
First of all, congratulationson a beautiful career.
I lived in St.
George for 20 years and I understand theimpact and the love that you gave to the
community and I love that you recognizedthe Individuals, the humans that
(11:03):
sacrifice and who work in health care.
It is a very beautiful breed of humanswho sacrifice and serve others with
unconditional love and compassion.
And we have the best in St.
George and you really led abeautiful team of humans there.
It really is a legacy oflove that, that you have.
(11:25):
instilled in our community and as a memberof the community that lived there for a
long time, I just want to say thank you.
Oh, you're kind.
Thank you, but it wasn't me.
It's just a team of people.
When you have people who are focusedon a common goal, it's just a
wonderful experience and work nolonger becomes work, but a joy.
(11:48):
Yeah, and that isn't that thegoal just to make work a joy
and to work with joyful people.
So that was, I was fortunate, no question.
What a blessing.
What a blessing.
Um, let's just touch base.
You said you retired at age 55, correct?
(12:08):
Stop, stop.
Shut the front door.
I'm working on level 55.
I'm not retired, Steve.
Apparently, I need to take some notes fromyour book and figure out how to make that
happen so I can have that, um, legacy.
Because I'm not retired yet.
So how did you plan that out?
(12:29):
Was this always a goal for you to do this?
Oh, I have to So, howdid you make that happen?
When was the decision?
Well, it was really fairly easy.
Um, there does, I think for allof us, come a point when we feel,
(12:53):
well, for me it was the case ofhaving a cancer scare that caused me
to seriously consider the fact thatI did not want to die at my desk.
That you have to take care of yourself.
The opportunity to potup and examine your life.
Um, and, uh, recognize.
(13:15):
I always had a theoreticalunderstanding of mortality.
But when you're diagnosed with cancer,it becomes something different.
And you recognize that if there'ssomething more I want to be doing
with my life, you need to be thinkingabout that sooner rather than later
and not just continuing down the road.
(13:37):
So it became a wake up callthat caused me to think.
During the time that I was offrecovering from surgery, I examined
my retirement 401k and, and my pensionplan and determined that with 30 years
(13:58):
in at age 55 I was maximizing theretirement plan and I don't know what
it is I was wanting to work more for.
So the opportunity really came upbecause I worked for a wonderful
company that offered what issoon to be an antique, a pension.
(14:21):
Oh yes.
And, um, I thought, you know, I couldtake that pension and I could figure out
something else to do that might allow meto do more things that I wanted to do.
Uh, careers are great.
We all have careers.
And they're the means thatseparate us from starvation.
(14:50):
We continue to work because we growaccustomed to having three meals a day
and all of that, so we keep it going,but at a certain point you come to
recognize that, um, it only does somuch for me and I, I appreciate the
(15:13):
opportunity that I have to leave that,but, and that's really what it is.
I didn't start off with any sort ofgoal to write a book, but when I did
choose to retire, I had several ideasin mind of things that I wanted to do.
But it was really just acollection of disjointed thoughts.
(15:38):
So I sat down with the idea oftrying to, what do I do next?
Which is the question thatevery retiree must address.
Absolutely.
The easy part, and it doesn'tseem that way, we work our whole
life to try to put money away andplan for a future of retirement.
(16:02):
Yes.
Um, but the easy part isretiring from something.
The hard part is retiring to something.
Yes.
You have to retire to something.
Um, and that's what takes effort oneveryone's part to think through.
(16:25):
So, what's next?
What am I going to do in retirement?
How am I going to proceed with my life?
And, um, so I started off withthe idea of, Recording thoughts.
That was really a form of therapyfor me to try to figure out what's
(16:46):
important, what do I want to donext, what do I want to accomplish.
And it sounds like it's reallywell organized, it really wasn't.
I was just kind of playing it byear until thoughts began to come.
And as I did that, I started to writeit down, and at a certain point I
thought, I think this could be a book.
(17:11):
Now, I'm not an expert on retirement,so my book does not lend someone to
say, These are the steps you take.
It was lessons that I learnedas a result of being retired.
And as I learned lessons thatI wrote them down and tried to
capture what am I learning andhow do I use this going forward?
(17:36):
Um,
and I'm sure we can talk about that.
I've got a lot of thoughtsabout what that means.
Obviously, the first one isyou've got to retire to something.
It's not enough to just stop working.
Yes.
And do whatever you want.
Most people think, oh, it's easy.
I just stopped going to workand start doing whatever I want.
(18:01):
And most people decide, well,I'm, I'm going to travel.
I'm going to see the grandkids.
I'm going to play a little golfand have some leisure lunches.
Great.
What do you do the secondweek of retirement?
That's what I read in your book.
Yes.
You have to have a plan.
You have to understand the next, the nextgoal, the next ambition, the next event.
(18:25):
But I want to backtrack just a minute.
You kind of, um, skipped overa big portion of your life.
That really kind of set the tempo forwhere you are and for this season.
And you wrote it in your book and, um,words can't describe the weight I felt
(18:48):
and the pressing down on that moment.
You said you remember focusing on oneword, and it wasn't the word cancer.
You said the word that really stood out toyou that your doctor said was, I'm sorry.
You said you focused on the word sorry.
(19:08):
When he gave you thediagnosis that you had cancer,
What was it about that word?
Describe that more for me.
Tell me about that moment whenyou were sitting in the office
and your dear friend, Dr.
Cope, gave you this news.
And he said, Steve, I'msorry, you have cancer.
(19:31):
And, uh,
I didn't know how sorry he was.
I mean, does that mean there's nocure, there's no plan going forward?
This is it?
Do I need to write mychildren a letter tonight?
How sorry are you?
(19:53):
Um, that's what immediatelydrew my attention.
Yeah, that has a lot of weight whenyou put it in that perspective.
Like, what kind of sorry is it?
Um, I mean, cancer.
We all have had experienceswith cancer, unfortunately.
It affects every familyat some level or another.
(20:14):
And, um, my earliest recollectionswas with a grandfather who
was diagnosed with cancer.
And I can remember my mom and the painthat it immediately brought to her.
Because back 50, 60 years ago, cancer wasa death sentence and was almost immediate.
(20:36):
And, um, So you have all kinds of thoughtsin mind as to what cancer might be.
But when he said, I'msorry you have cancer,
I've seen people in modern medicaltreatment go through and and there
(20:58):
are cures for cancer that we never hadin the past and people can do well.
So it was My immediate responseto him was, How sorry are you?
What does that mean?
Are you sorry that it'sgoing to be painful?
That I'm going to have time off of work?
(21:19):
That it'll be fine?
Or, do I need to write my childrena letter tonight, saying goodbye?
What person said that to you?
Immediately.
You're going to do fine.
You've got it early, and you'rehealthy, and those kinds of things.
And it turned out well.
(21:40):
You did catch it early, but yourtreatment from my viewpoint as your
friend and watching you go throughit, it was, it was a big journey.
Um, and it took, it took quite a while.
Can you explain a little bit aboutyour journey through it for other
people who have cancer and whatkind of cancer do you, did you have?
(22:04):
I've had, I'm a two time cancer survivor.
So the book talks aboutmy first experience.
Yeah, I was working in career andthat's what gave me the thought about
my mortality and do I continue workingtill I die at my desk or what do I do?
And that led me to retirement.
(22:26):
Yeah, when you have that wake up call,it's definitely like a red light.
It's a stop light.
Like, my goodness, what is my priority?
Like you said, you know, am I just havingthis career, this beautiful career,
but it's just keeping away starvationor could I be doing something more?
With my next season in life and whenyou have this this word, you know that
(22:49):
yes We can deal with more easily thanwe could when your grandfather had it.
I mean, but it was still triggering Imean, that's your reaction like oh my gosh
cancer cause people to die at least inmy family You know, I said it's touched
every family But it was kind of yourwake up call to kind of stop and go.
Hey, I need to change some things However,catching it early in prostate cancer,
(23:14):
we've made tremendous advancements intreatment and being able to, to halt
its progress and really affect the cure.
After I retired, I was about sevenyears into it, maybe a little bit more.
Then I had my next cancer episode.
(23:39):
This is probably the oneI'm more familiar with.
And
That one was, uh, morechallenging than there were many
ugly days associated with it.
But I, I had a, a rare blood cancer.
It just suddenly occurred.
(23:59):
Now, one of the thingsWhat was the symptom?
How did you know?
Well, um, one of the things thathappens, I think, for all of us is
that we don't tend to give much.
As long as we're healthy Life is good,and we continue to roll along, and,
(24:20):
um, we are all healthy until we're not.
And it's a surprise tolearn when we're not.
I had, uh, I've always beenfairly active, and I've enjoyed,
um, being actively involved.
I've, I've run marathons, I'vedone, um, A lot of outside activity.
(24:46):
I ran a marathon with my daughter,um, one Saturday in October, St.
George Marathon, and thefollowing week I decided to go
out and just do a little jog.
I went about a mile andwas totally exhausted.
I thought, oh, Steve,you're just overdoing it.
(25:08):
Take a couple of days offand let's do it again.
You know, I did that.
I was totally spent, and as time wenton, I just had less and less energy.
It just was like a ballrolling off a table.
Wow.
I came to a point where I couldn'twalk up the stairs of my house
(25:31):
to get to a family gathering.
I had to get on my hands and knees.
Of course, being a man, Ithought I just needed more rest.
My wife immediately said,Steve, something's wrong.
You gotta go see a doctor.
Yes, Kathy.
Go Kathy.
We love Kathy.
Yeah, I can see you just like, no,I just, just let me crawl to the
(25:54):
bed and I just need another coupleof days of R& R and I'll be fine.
Your strong mindset.
I just went to bed earlierand thought it'll be fine.
I'm, I'm okay.
But it did go through the process,and um, it took quite a while.
It probably took four or five weeksto figure out what was going on.
(26:18):
They ran every test thatthey could think of.
First thought they had was, perhaps youhave a bleeding ulcer, and you're losing
blood, which is causing your energy to go.
And I said, well, I knowit's not a bleeding ulcer.
I would have had one ofthose when I was working.
(26:40):
Why I retire, but not, not sevenyears in, in, into my next chapter.
This chapter's good.
So I went through the testing, yes.
And finally they came back andsaid, here's the situation.
You have a, a blood cancer.
Basically it affected my,my, uh, red blood cells.
(27:04):
And the red blood cells carryoxygen through the body.
And the oxygen gives you energy and myblood cells were not developing correctly
and I was not getting the benefit.
And the doctor did say,after I went through several
specialists, there is a cure.
(27:26):
And I thought, great, is it a pill?
He said no.
I said I don't want to take anysize pill, I'll be happy to do that.
He said no.
It will be a bone marrow transplant.
And, um,
(27:47):
for some reason I had a visionof bones being pulverized and
extremely painful or whatever.
What is a bone marrow transplant?
You have to get themarrow out of the bones.
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
It's officially a stem cell transplant.
So We went through that process and ofcourse Kathy at my side and they said
(28:14):
our next task would be to find a donor.
And um, I looked at Kathy and Isaid to the doctor, finally a good
reason for having six children.
Oh my gosh.
(28:34):
Um, was one of your kids Itwon't be children, but the
chance will be a sibling.
(29:02):
It was one where there's clearlymuch greater risk of your survival.
So, they didn't really have to say that.
I knew by virtue of the whole discussion,that this was not going to be, Something
simple and they weren't passing it off.
(29:25):
Um, but instead, I can tell youMichelle, the hardest thing I ever did
was getting to a position where I wasready to proceed with the transplant.
I had sat down with the doctorsas I entered the hospital and
had my last physical exam.
(29:48):
And I asked the doctor, I said, so,what are the chances we're successful?
I thought success would be thatI'd return to my normal activity
and that I'd be feeling pretty muchthe same as before the diagnosis.
And he opened up his little folder onthe desk and he says, we believe you've
(30:12):
got a 59 percent chance of survival.
I said, wait a minute, survival?
You mean there's a 41 percent chanceI'm going to die in the hospital?
And he said, yes, that's a wholedifferent level of seriousness.
(30:36):
And how did you make with that?
What, what, what was your mindset?
I mean, when you hear that news andyou're dealt these cards that were so
unexpected, you just ran a marathon andyou were feeling on top of the world.
You're in this beautiful seasonof Retirement and figuring
out what you're doing next.
(30:57):
And then you have this.
I don't even know how to explain it.
I took the wind out of you, literally.
What was your mindset?
Your mindset, you create avery close focus on what's
immediately in front of you.
(31:19):
I really wasn't looking down the road.
I was looking at, okay,what do we need to do?
And how can I best prepare?
You just take one step at a time.
And, uh, one of the, one of thequotes that I really like came from
Winston Churchill, and I don't knowthe situation, but he once said,
(31:48):
when you're goingthrough hell, keep going.
Don't stop and sit on the curb.
When you're going through hell,keep going, get through it.
We're going to hell.
That's the whole focus of what do Ido next and how do I best prepare for
the next step, that sort of thing.
(32:09):
I think that's really powerful.
I think just that statement.
And I'm also related to WinstonChurchill, so I'm just going to
say, hey, my family helped you.
You're welcome.
But that's true.
I'm afraid too many peoplemight potentially get stuck.
(32:30):
They get bad news andthey get Right there.
Yeah, it's so true.
And you just got to move forward,move like, and I love your
perspective, you know, okay, Ican't look too far down the road.
I'm just going to look at the next piece,the next step, and just stay really
present and then do one thing at a time.
(32:54):
I, I think that's a good analogy forevery part of life, but especially
when you're hit with something so hard.
And so overwhelming.
You know, I have, um, youhave all kinds of thoughts.
And the, the journey that I went on, onceyou're told you have a serious cancer like
(33:18):
that, it's not something that you wantto get up and shout it from the rooftops.
You basically close in and let it,it's just something that is inside
of you that you're trying to process.
You're trying to understand what itmeans and where you go and what you do
and of course for Kathy and I and ourimmediate family, all of my children
(33:42):
and my son in laws, daughter in laws,um, it's really a case of they were
all aware of it, but I didn't share it.
I didn't share it with my extended family.
I have two sisters, so myodds went from six to two.
(34:02):
I have two sisters.
I didn't want to tell them becausethey were caretakers for my mom and I
didn't want my mom to hear that I havethis disease without knowing that I
knew exactly what steps we were goingto take and it was going to be alright
(34:23):
and I'm going to get through this.
I wanted to know what the plan was.
So we went through a fairlylengthy process of evaluating
where do I go for the transplant.
I didn't share it.
Okay.
I, I admire that you wantedto give your mom hope.
And it just reminds me, you know, you'rean adult, you're, you're grown, but she's
(34:48):
still your mom and you're still her son.
And I love that you're like,no, I can't tell my mama.
And unless I had some hope anddirection, so she doesn't worry as much.
I mean, that just shows yourcharacter just right there.
And that it was intimate and it was just.
For your family to supportyou and to take care of you.
(35:09):
You know, I don't know when you sharedit, when I found out, but, um, I know
that I was grateful to find out becauseas, as your friend, what I could offer
was prayers and sending you energy andlove and the support, but to, to be in
that space and to say, hold on, let megather some pieces before we move forward.
(35:33):
It just.
Like you said, I need todo one piece at a time.
Well, it's not something thatyou want to dump on someone.
There's nothing shecould have done for me.
Yeah.
And it would just be something thatwould bring her more worry and concern.
Yeah.
You can't do anything with it.
So as I went through that processand we evaluated different medical
(35:56):
centers where we might seek treatment,
and it was still somewhat jumbled,But I was formulating a plan.
I got a call one morning from mysister Tammy, my younger sister.
(36:17):
Um, she's a school counselor.
She kind of became my therapistthroughout most of the journey.
A person I can talk toand reflect things with.
But we were just chatting as we often did.
I'm pretty close in my mindto my two little sisters.
As we concluded our conversation, Tammysaid to me, she said, I got the strangest
(36:47):
phone call from Debbie this morning.
Debbie's my other sister.
I said, really?
What was so strange about it?
And she said, she told me thatshe had a dream last night.
I said, really?
What did she dream?
(37:07):
She said, she dreamed you'resick and you need her help.
Oh my gosh.
I just started crying.
I started crying and then I was ableto relate to my sister all of what's
happening and that I needed her andDebbie to go through the testing
(37:28):
process to see if they might be a donor.
What an incredible experience and gift.
I mean, that literally, when youtold me that, gave me chills.
It gave me chills and Ijust broke down in tears.
I told her, and of course, bothof them, after learning, were more
(37:49):
than happy to go through quite anextended process of trying to identify
whether they would be a match.
As it turns out, my therapistsister, Tammy, was not a match.
The sister who had the dream, Debbie,was a 10 for 10 perfect match.
(38:13):
Oh, oh my gosh, I just got chills again.
Oh.
And I, um, so it gave me thecourage to, to go forward.
knowing that I had the bestpossible opportunity for this to
be successful and to go through it.
(38:34):
A 10 out of 10.
It was amazing.
Um, it was not a coincidence.
I felt very blessed andI do continue today.
The way the transplant worksof stem cells, they basically
put me in the hospital and Ispent 46 days in the hospital.
(38:58):
They use a very high powered chemotherapyto eliminate your immune system.
I became a bubble boy.
I would be susceptible to any infectionand you're isolated but basically they
clear your body out of your abilityto fight off infection and then they
(39:19):
introduce her stem cells which wasalmost like a blood transfusion.
Into my body.
And the, the goal is to have herstem cells set up housekeeping
and live inside of my body.
Is there a rejection periodthat you guys really close?
(39:40):
How, what is it?
I spent another 60 days in case therewas a rejection living by the hospital.
And, um, but the idea is that we justtransfer her normal blood making Infection
fighting capability into my body.
(40:02):
Modern medicine is amazing.
What she was a 10 out of 10 and you hadthis transplant and how did it turn out?
It's amazing to me, Michelle.
It blows me away to think I justcan't, I just, that my sister stem
(40:23):
cells produce her blood insidemy body that keeps me alive.
So
if you were to draw my blood sample, thelab results would come past the fact that
I'm a middle aged postmenopausal woman.
How does that feel?
(40:44):
Did you get hot flashes yet?
You know, I think you'll be thefirst to tell you that I do much
more laundry than I ever did before.
Oh yeah.
The biggest positive side effectis every day is a blessing.
That you're here.
(41:05):
I am.
I do believe in God.
And I have an overwhelming
testimony that if man and womanscientists can figure out how to
transplant my sister's stem cellsinto my body and keep me alive,
(41:31):
Heavenly Father can resurrect us.
That is beautiful.
I don't believe in coincidences.
I believe that dream happened and thatshe was supposed to give you this gift
and it did come from divine power.
It came from our creator and thatyour legacy could go on and you could
still be here and unbelievable gift.
(41:54):
I, I can't even imagine theconversation that you had and
with her Michelle, you cannot,
her family and my family joinedtogether in my hospital room.
At the time they brought herstem cells in after they had
(42:17):
eliminated my immune system.
As I laid in the hospital bedhooked up to an IV, they put
her stem cells on the pole.
And then we had a short family prayerand then they turned the spigot on
and her stem cells came right downthat tube and went right into my arm.
(42:39):
It was just, I can't, I can't describe it.
I have tears.
I can't even imagine.
I mean, literally life giving, literallylife flowing through those tubes into you.
Yes, absolutely.
What a sacred.
Yes.
(42:59):
And,
you know, um, Michelle, I thinkhuman nature is to do everything
we can to prevent ourselves fromsuffering or going through hard times.
The fact of the matter is, hard times areas much a gift as good times and often
(43:26):
we learn much more from the hard timesand they become much more meaningful
and shape us into the people we are.
I mean, it sounds crazy.
Looking back, the things I learnedas a result of fighting for my
life going through the transplantare the most meaningful lessons
(43:49):
that I've probably had in my life.
It's, it's so accurate.
I mean, when we sit in the season ofour darkest moments in those shadows,
the greatest light is given to us.
Um, and the greatestexperiences and knowledge.
(44:10):
And wisdom come from those moments.
And so as you emerged from thatexperience and now you have this gift,
this wisdom and this knowledge, what isyour big takeaway after going through?
(44:30):
It's just, my heart is pounding.
My tears are right here.
I can't even imagine goingthrough that experience.
And then where are you now?
I mean, what's your mindset now after?
Well,
as you might imagine, it doesn'tcrystallize into one thought.
(44:54):
But, um,
one of the things I think isalso human nature, particularly
as we maybe reach retirement,
is people immediately turn to one ofthe tools they used in the workplace,
(45:16):
and that was to focus on a to do list.
And we assemble all the things thatwe might want to do and we go through
that checklist and often travel is apart of that or whatever it might be.
One of the things that becameabundantly clear to me is that
(45:41):
our focus should be moreon creating a to be list.
Ooh, I like that.
A to be list.
To do is not, is not going tobring joy because sooner or later
you will check all of your boxes.
(46:02):
That's not who you are.
We are human beings for a reason.
We must have purpose.
We must have direction in our lives.
So, focusing on a to be list,and it can be as simple as
I want to be a great spouse.
(46:24):
I want to be a good dad.
I want to be a great grandparent,whatever it might be.
But as you begin to focus and createa to be list, the things, the things
that you need to do to accomplishthat become immediately clear.
(46:47):
We spend way too much time thinkingabout what shall I do in retirement.
The real Gift and the blessing iswhat do you want to be in retirement?
That is so poignant What do I want to be?
The first question I wrote downthat I didn't even ask you it says
(47:09):
describe yourself without titles
I'm a creative problem solver.
I believe that's probably theskill that I've always had.
It ended up being applied ina particular setting under a
particular position description.
(47:31):
But I really think that I'm able tolook at situations and find alternative
ways of considering how to address it.
And That has brought me a lot of, of joybeing involved in community activities,
community boards, other kinds of things.
(47:53):
Um,
but I, I hope, I hope I'm a, I'm a friend.
I hope I'm a person who, uh, seesneeds for others and puts them out
there as something that I want to do.
I mean, if I had to distillwhat I think retirement is,
(48:15):
retirement is a gift, a show.
Very few people in the world.
I mean, we are, we have adistorted view of the world.
If we get out and go to the thirdworld, we recognize just what a
blessing we have to live in America.
(48:37):
To have the blessings thatwe have available to us.
A very small percentage of the humanpopulation can spend any time thinking
each day about anything other than whatam I going to eat today and how am I going
to find that food and take care of myself.
(48:58):
To be able to retire and separateyourself from the day to day demands
of a career only comes to a fortunatefew people when we look at it in the
context of the world's population.
So powerful when you put it that way.
It absolutely is a gift and weforget about the larger perspective.
(49:25):
And that you had this gift and, and whereyou're sitting in this season and with
this gift and what are you doing with it?
You've accomplished alot since you've retired.
Even going through this,this cancer scare twice.
Some
of the things that you are accomplishingand have done and traveled and seen,
(49:46):
share some of those things with me.
Things that I've done?
Yes.
Let me finish that thought.
It's a gift to a fortunate few.
Use it to make your family, neighborhood,community, and the world better.
(50:09):
Get involved.
Give back.
Give.
Use the skills, talents, and abilitiesthat you gained as a result of your
career to benefit those around you.
If you don't do that, in my wayof thinking, you're committing
a crime against humanity.
(50:29):
If you just take the skills, the lessons,the experience that you gained, and keep
it to yourself in retirement, you'recommitting a crime against humanity.
And I would really believethat that is truly the case.
Um, um, you know, I'm, I'm fortunate,as you mentioned, that I've lived in
(50:55):
my community for an extended periodof time, was involved in getting to
know many people across the community.
One of the things that's been a greatblessing to me is to be invited to serve.
in the various not forprofit organizations.
And I've really enjoyed andappreciated the fact that after I
(51:19):
retired, people weren't asking me todo that as a result of my position.
When you're the hospital administrator,there's many organizations that
want you to serve on their boards.
When I retired, it became extremelyspecial when people invited me because
I thought they weren't inviting myposition, they were inviting me.
(51:43):
And I've been fortunate to beable to serve on the County
School Board Foundation.
on the University of UtahMedical Center Foundation.
I've been able to serve in what'scalled the Institute for Continued
Learning, which is focused onseniors in our community taking
(52:07):
classes at the university locally.
But I've looked also for lemonade stands.
I really love lemonade stands.
I love these.
Of course you do.
They put themselves out there.
and are trying to be successful.
My dad taught me long ago.
(52:29):
I remember remarking to him, somebodycame to the door and sold him a
pencil or something like that.
And I remember telling my dad,I said, Hey, we've got pencils.
Dad, why'd you buy that?
And he said, whenever a young personputs themselves out there and tries to
be successful, you need to help them.
(52:52):
My dad was the person who would.
Go out of his way anytime he saw alemonade stand to be able to pay a young
person pouring lemonade for their effort.
That's carried over.
It's really hard for me.
It's gotta be an unusual trafficpattern for me to not find
(53:12):
my way to the lemonade stand.
So we can do that in so many differentways if we just open our eyes.
Opportunities are all around us.
I think that's beautiful.
It just goes back to what you havesaid, um, throughout our conversation
to stop and to be present in the momentand to even see the lemonade stand and
(53:35):
to take that time to go encourage theseyoung kids to keep pursuing something.
And I also love that you said it's goingto be, uh, uh, crimes against humanity.
If you don't use the talents that you.
required in that, that you earn duringyour career and you don't take that
(54:00):
gift and still give back with it.
You have to use it.
I love, love that.
And I think more people need to dothat because I know many people who
retire and they just like go off andjust do golf and lunch, you know, and
that's two weeks turns into two months.
And then they, I believe morepeople need to give back.
More people need to stop atlemonade stands and more people
(54:22):
need to be still involved.
You have talent in, in all of thiswisdom and knowledge and experience.
It's the key, Michelle, serving others.
Otherwise, your retirement world willclose in around you and become smaller.
And you'll become depressed.
(54:43):
And there's a whole lot of peoplewho retire and are depressed.
Yeah, yes, that is the key.
They do, they get small andwe can't, we can't live small.
And that's, I think the time toactually expand is in my season.
And as I move forward towardsyour season, we need to expand.
(55:05):
That's so beautiful.
Well, think about, I wouldencourage everyone to think about
what are the things that, whereyou could make a difference.
The fact of the matter is, asyou well know, there are not
for profit organizations inevery community who need help.
(55:28):
Yes.
Compile a list of things that might beattractive to you, and then reach out.
Reach out, call, and make an appointmentwith the director of that organization.
Go sit down, interview them, seewhat they're involved in, see where
they need help, and say, hey, I'dlike to help, how can I do that?
(55:49):
But, the opportunities are there,and they're available to us.
They are.
I think sometimes we just kind of sitback and wait for people to approach
us, look at it, and then go serve.
The more you give, themore you'll receive.
(56:09):
One of the things that I learnedwhen I went through my cancer,
there was a group of young ladiesthat lived in my neighborhood
that formed the Kindness Club.
And they just went around trying to findopportunities for people that needed help.
(56:30):
And during my long convalescence,I had several visits.
And it became abundantly clear to me thatkindness can't be, can't be given away.
It always comes back.
You can't give it away.
(56:51):
Same thing applies for service.
Service is something you can't give away.
It'll always come back in avariety of ways that we might
not have fully appreciated.
And that helps to make your worldbigger, because we have to have a
reason to get up in the morning.
We have to have a purpose.
(57:12):
And oftentimes, people's only purposewas defined by their position, and
they end up losing their person,and they trade it for a position.
Yes.
You must fight to be cultivating intereststhat are outside of the position that
you've held that paid you every two weeks.
(57:34):
I love that you said kindness expands.
I think that is what we need more of.
We need more kindness.
We need to realize that when we do that,when we serve others, when we just do the
smallest acts, I love that there was thislittle community, but it does expand.
And that.
(57:55):
Powerful when that energy goes out.
Uh, you, you illustrate some of thesepoints that you just said in the book.
And, um, I love for people to getthe book and to read more about what
you're saying about how to give back,how to have kindness, how to level up
and really break down some barriersand expectations about retirement.
(58:20):
Well, that would be wonderful.
It's not.
It's not on the New YorkTimes bestseller list.
You can't get it through Amazon.
So you'd have to reachout and send me an email.
Well, we might just haveto share your email.
Cause I'm sure there's going to bea few people who are interested in
(58:40):
how to redefine their next season.
And this isn't just for retirement.
These are lessons thatwe can take right now.
Exactly.
It has nothing to do with retirement.
It has everything to do as being.
A good human and a good person.
And just sitting in those moments of usingwhat you have, giving back and serving
(59:03):
and expanding your sphere, whateverthat is, and that's powerful at any age.
Great.
I'm glad you caught that vision.
It's really interesting tome in its simplest form.
Life consists of a series of transitions.
(59:23):
Thoreau said that, you'llremember him, Henry David.
Thoreau said that going to, from,is the history of every one of us.
We are constantly going to something,from something, whatever that might be.
And I just think life isa series of transitions.
(59:47):
And, uh, one of the Examples Iuse in the book is, remember when
you retired from high school?
Yes.
To me, perfect analogy forretirement from career.
When you went through high school,your whole world revolved around
(01:00:11):
your schedule, getting to classat 8, 15 or whatever it was.
Your social network was everybody thatwas there that you went to school with.
You went to football games on Fridaynight and then had pizza afterwards.
You had everything that gave youreason and purpose and your position
(01:00:33):
was well defined in high school.
And then you graduated.
Now what do I do?
And you went through the process ofeither going on for further education,
redefining, creating a new network ofcolleagues and classmates or co workers.
(01:00:55):
You didn't stop.
You found a new way.
to something from something.
Your first job, um, remember you retiredfrom being single and being married?
You have so many different transitions.
(01:01:17):
Remember when you went from being inthat marriage to now being a parent?
I mean, the transitionsjust never end for us.
And so retirement really isn't anydifferent than that, but we tend to make
it seem like it's such a bigger thing.
It's just another transition in our life.
(01:01:39):
So it's important that we kind of thinkabout how do we make our transitions.
I think that's beautiful andthat's a great analogy all
the way back to high school.
So even our younger listeners canrealize that that's what life is about.
These transformational moments and eventsand seasons and we get to have so many
(01:02:01):
and that is the best part of life thatwith every season there's going to be
highs and lows there's going to be happyand sad but they're experiences and
hopefully we learn from them and we expandfrom them and we grow from them but to
embrace them to embrace the transitionbecause you never know what's going
(01:02:22):
to be next and that is a powerful Oh,
you said that so well, you shouldhave written the book for me.
It took me a good long time.
I thought many times that my 10thgrade English teacher Would have
(01:02:43):
rolled over in their grave to thinkthat I was writing a book, which is
why it made it so difficult for me.
That's why they have editors.
I, I, I admire that you, I remember whenwe met and you're like, I'm going to write
a book and it's going to be called next.
And it's stuck in my mind.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, you can justdecide to write a book and just write it.
(01:03:04):
So I have been waiting andwaiting for years to get ahold
of your book and to read it.
Cause I am so proud of you.
Not just for the book, but for thecharacter and the determination and
the passion and the kindness and thatyou have always expanded your world
and you allow me to be a part of it.
(01:03:25):
I'm, it's just, I, I love our friendship.
I adore you to death.
Oh, Michelle, You are so kind.
Um, I didn't know that Icouldn't not do the book.
I mean, I didn't know that I could.
I just decided I would.
There you go.
(01:03:46):
And, uh, you know, that'sIt's amazing, Michelle.
I think you've had many, many folksthat you've impacted their life by just
helping them to see we limit ourselves.
There's really no limit.
Um,
(01:04:07):
I came across a littlestatement some time ago.
It's on a, I think it's on a postcard.
Where do you draw the line?
We end up drawing the linesourselves as to what is possible
and what is not possible.
(01:04:29):
We can make it anything we want it to be.
Um, if we really think through that.
And I like that.
I like your limitless messagethat you put out there.
Um, anyway, it's been a delight to be ableto spend time with you and I appreciate
you inviting me to do that, Michelle.
(01:04:52):
Well, thank you for being an example onhow to break barriers, how to shatter
limits, and how to live limitless.
In spite of all of the challenges,you've just expanded and you've
led with kindness and courage.
And I thank you for beinga part of my podcast today.
I welcome all of my listenersto like, comment, and share.
(01:05:16):
Lean in and listen with me, Michelle Lena.
Welcome to Limitless.
Thank you, Steve, for being a part of mycommunity and being on my podcast today.
Much love.
Thank you, Michelle.
Thank you.
We just had an amazingconversation with my friend, Steve.
It was absolutely just brilliant.
(01:05:36):
He is such a genuine, real human,and his story Is fantastic.
What we can overcome and what we cando as humans, there's truly no limit.
He absolutely is an example of breakingthrough some major barriers in life.
(01:06:00):
Overcame so many huge obstacles to behere and to learn how to live next.
His book is called next, um, howto transition into retirement.
But what we really learned in this podcastepisode was really the transition starts.
As soon as you leave high school,you transition into different
(01:06:24):
seasons and we have to learn toadapt and to overcome and to expand.
We touch on kindness and we touch onhow, how to become and how to use the
talents that we are given in our careerand in life and what to do with them when
(01:06:46):
Life is Okay, I didn't like any of that.
I'm overthinking.
Just wrap it up, Michelle.
Alright,
3, 2, 1.
I would just like to do a wrap up.
About the conversation I just hadwith my dear friend, Steve, and what a
(01:07:09):
remarkable, powerful human he is and thestories that he shared and the compassion
and the love and the drive and just theexample of how to live when life gets
really hard and really challenging.
What do you do?
How do you sit in that space?
(01:07:29):
How do you break down those barriersand how do you learn to live limitless?
He is a beautiful example of all of that.
And I am so excited that hewas a part of my podcast.
He really, Taught some powerful lessonsthat we can all take at any age to
(01:07:51):
live a better life and to set ourselfup for success starting from high
school all the way through retirement.
If you don't use it,you're going to lose it.
And it is absolutely imperative.
One of the quotes he saidis by Winston Churchill.
If you're going through something hard orif you're going through hell, Keep going.
(01:08:17):
And how do you do that?
Well, he's going to give us step bystep instructions on how to go through
something hard, how to go through yourown personal hell and get through it.
That's my dog, Polly.
Anyways, thanks for beinga part of my community.
Thanks for being in my neighborhood.
Keep leaning in.
Keep listening with me, Michelle Lena.
(01:08:41):
You can't go over it.
You can't go under it.
Let's go through the shit together.
Welcome to Limitless.
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