The Night Before (2015) (Holiday Special!)

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
We did not kill Jesus.
We did not do that!

(00:28):
000. Welcome to Morally
Offensive,the podcast that puts the X in Merry Xmas.
I'm Bill.
Netherlands.
Holland like the countryand I'm Cisco scartozzi
Like you're in the Godfather.
scartozzi
plays you come to me this day.

(00:50):
And this is the day of Christmas.
When Jesus was born.
Today we are talking about 2015,the night before.
This is a podcast
about the films condemned or consideredmorally offensive by the Catholic Church,
or at least to some of the bishopswho have far too much time on their hands.
You know who you are. Way too much.

(01:13):
We both grew up Catholic,and now we're not,
for reasonsthat we'll discover, hopefully.
But we're still fascinatedby the religion that raised us.
The films we cover are selectedfrom the official film review lists of the
Legion of Decency, R.I.P., R.I.P.,and the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
At the end of each episode,we rate each film
based on its artistic meritsas well as its immoral ones.

(01:34):
I'm an award winning motion graphicsdesigner, editor, and DJ,
and I'm a film podcaster and writer,and together we are on a journey
to watch every single film condemnedor considered morally offensive.
So, Cisco,why are we talking about the night before?
Because it's a great movie.
No, it is an underratedChristmas classic.

(01:56):
I am here to make that stand.
We did want to try do something seasonal.I mean, that was my main.
That is true.
Was I thought, like, there's got to besome Christmas movies on this list.
Obviously Black Christmas is on there.
But I was like, let's hold off.
We've done our two big behemothhorror films to start off the pod,
and that's another one.
No, and I'd rather save thatfor when we are deep in this thing
and we know exactlywhen we are a well-oiled machine.

(02:18):
And just like we talked about in the HotTub Time
Machine one, another film that'sbeen extensively written about another.
1217 yeah, it's a time machine.
What was your first experiencelike with this movie?
I randomly watch this.
I remember seeing a trailer in theatersand thinking, well, okay,
it looks like another Seth Rogen,you know, stoner cop joint, I think.
I think it showed upon a streaming service,

(02:39):
and my wife and I were like,well, let's check that out.
It looks pretty funny.
She loved Joseph Gordon-Levittback in the day ago.
Yeah.
And I mean, Seth Rogen is very funnyand the supporting cast was great.
I had no idea Michael Shannon was in it,but we'll talk about that.
But yeah, there's a few cameos.
There's a lot of great cameos in this.
Yeah, I was surprised by its adeptnessat mocking and satirizing multiple types

(02:59):
of Christmas properties and movies,but also its very heartfelt statement
about male friendship,which we saw in the last movie.
And I think itit gets better every time I watch it.
I get more out of it, even though it isa ridiculous kind of crass stoner comedy.
It gets the heart of Christmasthat is missing from a lot of Hallmark

(03:19):
Christmas moviesthat are far less morally offensive.
Yeah, that's the name of the podcasttrademark that my like, Karina Longworth.
Yeah, I'm doing now.
Yeah.
Like my you must remember this bitwhere she goes, you know, she goes,
I'm Karina Longworth. That's me.
So I justtalked I said the name of the party.
Just say it. Yeah.
We should have like an effector something.
Every time offensive, morally offensiveor offensive comes up.

(03:42):
I got this on you on here. This.Check this out.
That's okay.
Oh, I was okay. There we go.
Got some DJ skills going on over here.
Yeah. Remix.
It's a really fun Christmas filmI mean it's not for kids.
I wouldn't watch this around your kids.
I think I brought it up once aroundmy niece, and I had to kind of
backpedal on that.
I'm like, oh, I mean, yeah,A Christmas Carol.

(04:04):
We'll watch A Christmas Carolthe night before a new a modern
Christmas classic for millennialswho are experiencing either
having kids and settling downor stagnation in their career options,
or they just are adrift
amidst the chaos of an uncertain economy

(04:24):
and a a uncertain future for our country.
It's scary for all of us, really,who are anyone under 60
will appreciate this movie?
Definitely.
If you bought a house in 1982,you won't appreciate it as much.
I think
probably not.
I think it's pretty accurate statement,but but this is this does feel
so much like even though my friend groupwas not exactly like this, I think it is

(04:46):
a relatable group of friends,especially guy friends for millennials.
Yeah, I think you hit it on the headwith capturing the spirit of Christmas.
Yeah, which I watched the special feature.
I have the Blu ray.
Obviously, like you said, a filmI've started to revisit
like every Christmas,and it's been kind of like a thing of my,

(05:07):
I guess now, because it's the second yearI've done it.
But last yearI had a friend of mine from Chicago
come in to see me,and we're around this time of year
and being like, yeah,I know you got like a ton of movies, man.
Like what?Like basically gave me the option.
I was like,have you ever seen the night before?
And he's like, and it was himin his and his then girlfriend, now wife.

(05:28):
And he's like, no. And I said,oh man, this would be great.
This is a great yeah.
And everyone loved it.
And then similar to this year,I've showed my little brother, who's 18,
so young, I guess the younger brother,you know it as well.
And, also enjoyed it.
So I think again, like, it'sthey're all still in like, our millennial,
you know, umbrella, but stilllike so many fun moments and cameos

(05:51):
that I think kind of capture, likethe whole spectrum of that in a fun way.
And the producers on the special featurestalked about that, like they wanted
to make a Christmas moviethat had that heart
and felt like special, feltlike a Christmas movie first and foremost,
and then added their signatureSeth Rogen part comedy drug,

(06:11):
drug induced comedy to it,which I think they pulled off.
I mean, one of theI think the director was the one
who said, having someone with both parentswho's an orphan,
if both of his parents died,oh my goodness.
At the very beginning of the film,you find out, like
that is not something you would seein a traditional comedy, right?
But because it's a Christmas comedy,people lend it that sort of

(06:35):
this type of stuff does happen.
And it's the tough part about Christmas,I think that doesn't get talked
about in a lot of movies,that it's not a great time for everyone,
you know what I mean?
Like, it's like it's I appreciate that.
It's, you know, this family thingand people getting together.
But not everyone has a family.
Not everyonehas, a group that they can enjoy this.
And, seeing everyone elseenjoy it can make it.

(06:58):
I can understandwhy some people are Grinches
and don't like Scroogesdon't like Christmas.
I didn't understand thatuntil I lived with an orphan.
Somebody who was an orphan grew up in,you know, in the system and stuff.
And it opened my eyes just like, wow,my upbringing is not like everyone else's.
Not everyone has that experience.
And Christmas can mean a lot ofdifferent things to different people.

(07:19):
I was just going to say that too.
It's it's also a holidaywhere even though,
you know, there is a religious aspectto it, everyone.
So everyone I know,like outside of my family, celebrates
Christmas differentlyand has their own traditions.
So why wouldn't a group of friends
who have this annual tradition aroundChristmas celebrate in their own way?
And you know, well, I'm not Jewish.

(07:41):
That is true. That is true.
And that is something to
because a lot of the people who worked onthe movie are Jewish.
Yeah, and even the actors too, includingJDL and, Lizzy Caplan and Seth Rogen.
Obviously,I would not have the courage to write
the joke at the Catholic midnightMass if I was not Jewish.
Yeah, we'll get it.

(08:02):
But I mean, I think it it's it's
worth mentioning, too, that when I showedmy brother there, my mom was there.
She's there.
They're both Catholic still.
And still enjoyed it.
Still laughed, still good. Laugh at it.You know what I mean?
Dude, first of all,I vomited in mass like it had.
No, really, it was a kid.
Yeah, I was going to say, like I honestly,I probably shit myself to ass.

(08:23):
I mean, I was a, I was a bubble boy.
Like, they had like put me on.
I had so many allergies and stuffand like, health problems, I still do.
But I'm like, you know,I take better care of my health and stuff.
And did you ever have a psychoactive tripin church, though?
Oh, I've been probably still drunkat church.
Like, like hung over from, likedoing a keg stand at church in college.

(08:44):
Some of those those church.
The mass must be early, man. Like.
Yeah. No.
Like you want me to go to 8 a.m. mass.
Okay, well, and you're a deejay too, man.
So you're, you're you know,
I was an usher while I was a DJ,so I would like,
I it's it's funnybecause the mass I worked out
a lot of times to would get people fromif people from music festivals
were coming through bands,the bands would come.
We were Catholic because we were nearwhere the music festival was,

(09:04):
and we'd all be in there with our armbands to kind of look at each other like,
yep, you
know, because you're like, I'm like,I saw you a few hours ago.
Yeah. How are you doing right now?
So but, you know,
I don't think Jesus cares about thatif he did, if Jesus is watching
you and and he's judging you for that,I feel like, you know, here's

(09:25):
the thing about being Catholic is,
some of the most straitlaced peopleI know of
who are Catholicended up being some of the worst people.
So I just think don't judge people.
You don't know what's going on.
Exactly.And I think Jesus would be the same way.
So just my take
my $0.02 on Jesus.

(09:46):
You know, we can talk a little bit aboutthe plot here, but I think it's like,
you know, pretty straightforward,where again, we get introduced
to this orphan play by JosephGordon-Levitt.
And, you know, he lost his parents.
And so his friends, played by AnthonyMackie and Seth Rogen,
try to be there for himfor this one night.

(10:06):
And then it becomes this annual tradition.
But then when we meet themat the beginning of the film,
they're kind of in a crossroadswhere this is the last time, like
it's becoming sad.
So he's having a baby with his wife.
Anthony's kind of a he's a pro footballfootball player player,
and his career's taking offin this late stage of his career,
which will get brought up again.

(10:27):
But and he's the only onethat's kind of not have his, has his shit
figured out, which again,I really like when movies can do that,
because again, Chris'smovies are kind of fantastical and,
you know, they focus on a lot of those,like happier elements or whatever.
But again, not everyone is in that place.
Even though Christmas happens once a year,no matter if you're celebrated or not,

(10:49):
you will see it inevery store, on every corner
you will see inescapable.
Yeah.
And the commercialization of it has.
Yeah, that's a whole other topic.
But Joseph Gordon-Levittis kind of adrift, right? He's
you know, he's working these really lowpaying crappy he's a he's an elf.
Yeah. Like 32 or something.

(11:10):
The server server work,which I mean, you know, in this economy
take what you can get.
But it is I can see that being extremelyfrustrating to still be doing
that kind of work at 32, when you thoughtyour career would go somewhere else.
And, I mean, I'd been there in my 20swith the recession,
like when the recession hit,I was standing out Starbucks
samples at 25 and a subway, or actually,I was I 27, I might've been 27.

(11:31):
It was embarrassing.
All I know. Yeah, it'sI had had a really good job.
And then suddenly, like,I was blowing up tide slot like tide
branded, Procter and Gamble,like inflatable slides and Kmart
parking lots for kidsand, like, handing out coffee samples.
And it was humbling.You know, it's humbling stuff.
And it wasn't even my fault.
It was just the economy collapsed andmy friend offered me a job, so I took it.

(11:52):
You know, well,
when we say, like, leave people alone,I think this is what we mean.
Yeah.
I mean, noteveryone has their shit together,
and it takes people longerto figure their stuff out than others.
Or you hit a bad patch,you hit a rough patch.
It happens, I get it.
So, yeah, when we meet him,he's getting reprimanded for
taking the crab cakes back to the kitchen.
He's like, you don't have that executivepower to make those kind of decisions.

(12:14):
Well,and who's the actor he's interacting with?
I'm looking it up right now.
Yeah, we lost the internet, by the way.
Everyone, just so you knowwhat's going on with that?
We had all of our listeners,Randall Park.
Randall park? Yeah. He's great.
There's.
I mean, every minor part in here is played
by an actor, again, a comedic actorwho at the time,
maybe not have been familiar to people,but they're all, like, successful work.

(12:37):
That's very funny,
this crossover from the last movie,
because Lizzy Caplan is also in the nightbefore.
Exactly. Yeah.
You know, so that's very funny.
MindyKaling has the main love interest. Yep.
A lot of Glaser plays the Grinch.
With a furry coat and all furrygreen coat and all.
They're narrated by Tracy Morgan.

(12:59):
You've got Nathan Fielderas the as, the the driver of the limo.
Jillian Bell is SethRogen's wife is pregnant.
Miley Cyrus.
James James Franco.
Which is really not a surprise,
but it was a surprisethe first time I saw the movie.
So there's a lot of like,really good bit parts in this, but
basically the plot of the movie is SethRogen wife

(13:21):
supplies him with every drug known to man.
It's he opens the box and then, like,
the magic dust comes outand it's just a pile of drugs.
She goes, it's every drug in the world.
So they're going onjust like the ultimate last hurrah.
But then when he gets reprimanded,I guess the key part of,
like, setting that up is that he,he he stole these three tickets

(13:44):
to this Nutcracker ball,which is this, like, cryptic
party, underground nightclub partythat they've always heard about.
And, all of these, like, tripswhere they, you know,
just get faded together every year,
but they've never gone to itbecause it's so secretive,
never figured outhow to get invited or anything.
And so they'rethis is what they already agreed, that

(14:04):
this is going to be their last Christmastogether doing this tradition.
And now they're going to go outwith a bang at this Nutcracker Ball.
But there are some obstacles in their way.
Yeah. Mackie is trying to impress
another everyone.
Oh, well, everyone,
but specifically another pro ball playerwho I guess is like maybe a station
above him.
He's a quarterback who,appropriately, is nicknamed the Messiah.

(14:27):
Yeah.
Which I mean, Iif you're if you're ranking like football
positions, I would say the QBis probably the messiah of the team.
But to be fair,no, it's it's a great setup though.
You don't think about it till laterin the movie when something happens.
And we will get to that point right.
But what happens is he to impress this guy
he wants to, you know, see, like, hey,what do you need?

(14:48):
And the guy asks him to scoresome weed. Yeah.
So they've got this limo, and SethRogen only has one joint,
so the proportions were all offexcept for weed at least.
So they get the they have a isit is the limo sponsored by Red bull
or is just the Anthony
Mackie is sponsored by all these companiesand can afford a little.
It was weirdbecause there was a deleted scene
where a fan asksAnthony Mackie for an autograph.

(15:11):
Yeah,and he has a can of Red bull with him.
And he goes, man,I don't do that shit, man.
That's like he like, looks down on it.
He's like, no, that's corny or whatever.
And then Nathan Fielder saw that.
He's like, your limousine is here, sir.
And it's the Red bull limousine, right?
Like it's it's a good joke.
But then throughout the movie, he'sconstantly going drink some Red bull.

(15:32):
Yo, bull.
So it seems like they have like
a rewrite or something, or it must be, or the sponsorship went a different way.
They thought it was going to go. Yeah.
That's usuallywhen something like that happens is
the sponsor sayswe're not going to do that.
And also I think I bet Red bull was like,we don't want him turned down a Red bull
because we're paying for this.
So that probably is my guess as towhat happened there could be
it seemed like there was.

(15:52):
And I think it's more worth mentioning
there was a lot of improvand it's like all Seth Rogen movies.
Yes, but like watchingthe special features, like really
like you see it where pretty muchall of the behind the scenes stuff,
where they're like showing themshooting scenes,
all the dialog completely different. Wow.
It's like the same scenes,but they're just they're there.

(16:13):
And this is how they shoottheir movies, too.
I've noticed, like a SethRogen and Evan Goldberg,
they they'll just have this situationand they'll just start spitting out jokes
that relate to the scene and they'll justlike, keep the keep the best ones.
That's wild. Yeah,they all said he. Again, special features.
They're all pretty nice most of the time.
About the other actors.
If if there was a bad experiencethey usually don't talk about it

(16:36):
on the special features. Right.Oh that's nice.
But yeah, they all said likeeveryone was down for this style.
And even the ones that didn't thinkthey were like Mindy Kaling,
they said it was one instancewhere she was like,
I won't touch your guy's scriptor whatever.
And they were like, no, like, like,we want you to like,
change lines and put your own spin on it.

(16:56):
And I think, I think it's richer forthat, too, because they said Lizzy Caplan,
they wanted it to emphasizethat a lot of these dirty comedies
don't have thatfemale comedic presence in them.
Right, historically.
And so you get I mean, I would say threegreat performance
from Jillian Bell, Lizzy Caplanand Mindy Kaling, all in their own scenes
are just as funny as the guy is coming offfrom Hot Tub Time Machine.

(17:17):
This movie already is such a contrast,right?
It's so much more egalitarianin terms of the screen time and like what
the women get to do in their roles,like their fully realized roles.
I mean, I think, caplan's role in HotTub was pretty well developed.
But like pretty much everybody elsedidn't really get to do a lot. No.
So this already feels like a turnfrom the sort of bro comedy of the 20s,

(17:42):
you know, like the the tens as the aughts,I guess, is what we call it.
And now we're in 2015 where there arethese, there is more of a focus
and a realization of the menmaking these movies that like, hey,
women are really not representedin these movies at all,
even though they're in themand they're funny.
They're like, funny.
I mean, like Mindy Kaling,just like freaking out the entire time.
Like around Seth Rogen.

(18:03):
It was just like, so great.
So Jillian Bell's performance is amazing.
She's I would sayshe's the MVP out of those three.
We just yeah.
Women we just namedshe and all of the behind the scenes stuff
there was also a gag reel,which was like a minute long.
Seth Rogen was the only one breakingthe entire time.
It seemed like he just could not.
And then more specifically,his scenes with Jillian Bell,

(18:25):
he just could not keep it togetherbecause she was she's on par
with Seth Rogen when it comesto, like, that quick timing
and just like the shitthat she would come up with.
My favoriteone was during the stripper scene.
She was just going like, oh,I bet so hard with like the lines.
And yeah, they they cut out so much stuff
that didn't make it to the final cut,but it was so that's amazing.

(18:45):
I think that's freaking out.
It's all these performances are so good.
But then there's one person for mewho just brings something to the movie
that if we were ranking cameos,there's it over the edge.
Yeah, into just legendary status.
And that is Michael Shannonas their childhood drug dealer,
someone who didn't break at allin the behind the scenes.
And I didn't want him to.

(19:06):
I'm like, this isthis is a professional actor, Oscar.
It was an Oscar. Movies.
That is an Oscar worthy performanceon his part, I think.
So it's amazing.
Like he's so straightthrough the whole thing.
I've like, I've met guys like thatand just have a weird life is like,
just that's sounded weird,but like, I've lived in cities
for a very long timeand you just run into people
like this,waiting for the bus, on the bus,

(19:28):
you know,
going to McDonald's at two in the morning,the fact that he's like this father,
this like he he thinks of himselfas this father figure over all of them.
He's like, yeah,
he has this kind of nostalgia for like,
I used to sellyou guys weed in high school, man.
Yeah, I'm so proud of him for children.
So proud of where you become.

(19:48):
Joseph Gordon-Levitt had a theoryon the physical features of that.
Was that that was interesting.
Was like, is he real?
We think Mr.
Green is realbecause he's an angel, right?
Yeah, you see that?
But like, only the three of them see himthe entire movie.
Oh, I'm like, doesanyone else does anyone else? You. Mr..
I viewed it as like he says, thisis the weed of Christmas past, remember?

(20:09):
And then there's likeI think he says, don't
they have the weed of Christmaspresent and future?
And they all yeah,they each one goes there.
So he's like the ghosts from, Christmas.
Christmas Carol. Yeah, yeah.
And so maybe he doesn't existor he only exists for them to see, like,
an angel would kind of like.But he does throw the party.
I guess that's
the one thing that kind of throws it offis he's like, this is my party.
Well, it's also a reference to Clarencefrom It's

(20:30):
a Wonderful Life who earns his wingsby helping George Bailey.
Right? Right.
And then he earns his wingsat the end of the movie.
So it's kind of an amalgamof all these ghosts and Angel.
He compares himself in that role.
It's a Great Gatsby,which I just loved. It's like.
Is like, I just thoughtthere was some fellowship where he's like.
And then the movie, I don't know, itwas, okay, I'm a sucker for Leo.

(20:51):
I, I love Michael Shannon so much.
I he's great. Is this another Chicago guy?
That's why I love him.
Yeah. He.
So the year he was nominated for, or.
No, I remember this. Yeah. Yeah.
For Shape of water. Shape of water.
He was sitting at a bar.
I've hung out multiple times.
It's across the street from, Second City.
But this old ass dive barwhere, like, the owner paints

(21:14):
paintings in the basementand hangs them in the bar.
And they have a phenomenal jukebox,if you like Frank Sinatra,
it's like all Frank Sinatra.
It's like it's.
It's, you know, those jazz vocalists.
That's all that's in there.
Last time I remember, and my friendand I used to go there and order
pitchers of beer and just get drunktogether, and people watch.
And Shannon was there.

(21:35):
I wasn't there.
But some things,
somebody who was there and, like,nobody there wasn't packed at all.
He was sitting there
solely drinking a beer,like watching Oscars, watching the Oscars.
And I was like,that is why I love Michael Shannon.
And he does not care about that stuff.
He is similar.
So the John Cusack thing, I thinkthat might be a Chicago thing, dude.

(21:55):
Like it's a midwestern thing.It's a Chicago thing.
Like these guys, I just don't.
Yeah, they're in Hollywood,but they're not a part of it.
And you know what I mean?
They and they like that. And I'm like,that is just such a mr.
green thing to do, right?
Like, you know, just hanging out at the bar.
I don't, I don't need all the pageantry.
Well, and he's different than like,I mean, Bill Murray
obviously is kind of local.
Lives in, the north suburbs or whatever.

(22:17):
But I do think, like,there's something different about like,
yeah, Cusackand Shannon are kind of their own thing.
Shannon also my favorite personalMichael Shannon story is so every year
the Metro in Chicago does a fundraiser,for a really great cause or,
you know, help, fund cancerresearch for kids.
And I was in a kind of, like, super group.

(22:38):
We formed like a bunch of usfrom different
bands, formed a Kraftwerk cover bandthat used to open for every year.
Chris Connolly, who used to be a ministrywhose on was on solo stuff.
He was in revolt.
And Cox, he put together all these peoplefrom different bands
to do a Bowie cover band, and every yearhe has a different band open for him.
And one year we did it.
Another year it was the Waco Brothersdoing the music of T-Rex.

(23:00):
And then, one year this year, Michael Shannon is going to be doing
the music of John Lennon.
Oh, wow.
But that year, there was one yearhe did the music of Lou Reed.
And in typical Michael Shannon
fashion, he didn't do.
I don't believe he didany Velvet Underground songs.
He didn't do.
I don't think he didanything off of transformer,
which is like Lou Reed'smost popular album.

(23:21):
It was all deep cuts,and he wore sunglasses with no shirt on
the entire time and was like, at one pointhe was on the floor of the stage.
It was insane, but like really good.
But it was just like,
I don't even know how to explainto people that I just witnessed this.
Just a quick factcheck about the Lou Reed set
that Michael Shannon didwith Jason Narduzzi at the Metro in 2015.

(23:44):
What I've been able to findare three songs from the setlist.
I cannot find a complete setlist now.
I could reach out to the Metro,but I did not have time.
So here's what I found out.
He did do some Velvet Underground songs,including New Age Temptation,
Inside Your Heartand Beginning to See the Light,
but I'm pretty confidenthe did not do, at least in his set,
waiting for the man, songs that, likeEverybody Knows Rock n roll, for example.

(24:07):
I'm pretty confident he didn't,but I could totally be wrong about that.
But I rememberthere were some people who were confused
because he didn't play the obvious LouReed or Velvet Underground hits.
I don't remember him doingwalk on the Wild Side, for example.
Now, it does seem like in 2019,when they did it
at the Metro, that he actually came outwith Chris Connolly
and the sons of the Sound Age bandduring their set and performed,

(24:30):
some of the Bowie Lou Reed
crossover stuff, like Satellite of Lovefrom the transformer album.
Anyway, I don't like speaking illof Michael Shannon, so I just want to
make sure that we were clear on thatand that this was fact checked.
Now back to Sisqo and myselftalking about the movie.
I think what we're learning isif you have a comedy,

(24:51):
fill it up with these weirddudes, man, he's off kilter.
And who are actors?
This is not a comedy.
Yeah, he's an actor, right? Exactly.
That will play the part straight because,I mean, even I think even Nathan Fielder,
who like again, wasn't what we knownow isn't a comedian though.
Yeah, yeah.
But like to just to have thatlike straight guy

(25:11):
role where he's like againhe's just a weirdo.
You know, the limo driver.
That's like putting in the conversationsand it's just like,
yeah, you canyou can raise the visor up, dude.
Like, you know, you need those parts, man.
You need those parts like I wish morepeople would use.
I'm going to
put this out there in the universe,but I wish more people would use Joe
Power this way.
You know, Joe Pedro,

(25:31):
he's, like, very low key look, thiskind of alternative, offbeat comedian.
But he had a show on Adult Swim for alittle bit called Joe Pera Talks with You.
He was shot here in Milwaukee.
That's part of why I.
It's a shot here in Milwaukee.
And then in Marquette, Michigan,where I actually went to college.
But I think he would be somebodyI would cast in a role like that.
Because again, you see this guy,he's like in this kind of offbeat

(25:52):
guys who are good contrastto these very broad big comedians.
Right.
But yeah, MichaelShannon is incredible in this movie.
And I think, like, he's the thingthat pushes it over the edge for me.
And I was really enjoying it.
And then he showed up
and then I said, okay, this is he doesbring it to another level, right?
On some other level. Yeah, yeah.
Can I ask you a ren a trivia question,but random quote trivia question.

(26:15):
Michael Shannon is also in another holidaymovie in a small role.
You know what the other one is?
I can give you a hint too,if you need it. Man.
The title is The Holiday.
Wait, it is the holiday?
Yeah. Okay.
What do you do?
Why did you just. No.
Like it is the actual name of the holiday.
Oh, it's not the holiday. No.
I was like, he's on the holiday.

(26:35):
It's a very small role.
And early in his career,I believe it was a Christmas movie. No.
Oh. Just holiday.
So not.
I would say thatit's not a Christmas movie.
Okay.
And it's not.
Well,
and you mentioned Bill Murray.
I guess that's the biggest. Oh, it's not.

(26:56):
Well, Scrooged is what I would think of,but, like, that's not
what's his other holiday movie or.
Oh, Bill Murray. Yeah.
Groundhog Day a holiday movie.
Oh this is Thanksgiving, right?
Thanksgiving wasn't Groundhog Day holidaytechnically I don't.
Oh, yeah, Groundhog Day. I'man idiot. Groundhog.
You can't have Groundhog Day.
Repeat the same day over and over againand have a take place on Thanksgiving.
What am I doing?

(27:17):
I'm thinking so, yeah.
Trains and automobiles. Anyway.
Yeah, you can see if you.
He's in thethere is like a Christmas scene
or Thanksgiving sceneat the end of the party.
And that's where he turns up at.
He's like one of the people in and thinks, okay.
Yeah, okay. So making sense now.
I was like,why is my brain going that direction?
And you'll see a baby facedMichael Shannon in there.
So I just love these still have like

(27:38):
just have like a scarred facestill just like yes, you got it right.
Absolutely. He still looks the same.I love actors like that.
You find young like Harry Dean Stanton.
You find a picture of who when he was 20,and you're like,
that's just Harry Dean Stanton. Yeah.
Vintage.
Vintage.
He's like 60.
Stanton yeah, they just.
He looks the same. Okay.
Yeah. Harry's the in Stanton.

(27:59):
He's he's another guy who like,that's the older generation.
But like, you know,Michael Shannon is quickly on his way
to becoming like a Harry DeanStanton type of just solid.
You put him in a movie,you add so much value to the movie.
Yeah.
And I think that's another fun part,which makes this like a fun rewatch.
It's just all of the Christmas callbacksto Christmas movies.
So you have obviously Christmas Carol,which is like Michael Shannon's

(28:22):
character Mr.
Green, playing like the three ghosts.
You have like Iglesias,the Grinch Grinch.
But he also mentions herher like three idols. Yes.
Which are like the villainsin all of the Christmas movies.
So the Grinch, the Wet Bandits,or Sticky Bandits,
and then, Hans Gruber from Die Hard,which is a Christmas movie.

(28:45):
And sniper, for some sense, it.
Well, then you obviously Mr.
Green gains his wings.That's Clarence from It's Wonderful Life.
You have the framing device of Tracy
Jordan narrating this,which is a lot of things.
It's all sorts of especially like thefurther back you go into Christmas media.
There's always the book openingand like he's also like credited as I,

(29:06):
which I love as narrator slash Santabecause at the end it's so funny.
Well, it's interesting too,because what I find interesting about
like the framing deviceis we associate the book turning,
opening, motif of credits with Christmas movies.
Most peoplewho don't normally watch TCM. Right?
I grew up on TCM watching old movieswith my grandparents.
I'm obsessed with, like, stufffrom the 30s, 40s, 5060s,

(29:30):
people who didn't grow up on that media.
Usually if they're watchingan older movie,
it's going to be like Wizard of Ozor some Christmas stuff.
Yeah, and those Christmas filmsall have the book pages turning them,
and it's honestly, that's not evennecessarily a Christmas trope.
It's just that their idea of an old movieor they don't give a Christmas
movie is tied to the bookopening type of credit,
whereas that was just a very common styleof opening credit back in the day.

(29:54):
But because most your average persononly sees an old movie like that
at Christmas time, I think that's whywe associate it so much with Christmas.
Yeah, I just like just having TracyMorgan do that too is just like the best.
It's so good.
You know, you get his accent.
Like there's one partwhere he's like recounting when they first
found out about the Nutcracker Balland somebody in the bar says something

(30:15):
and he goes, she asked.
She just thought it was so funny.
Well, of course, part of this traditionis they go to one bar every year.
And originally I wanted you to wrap thison air, but we're not going to do that.
Is Christmas in Hollistoo late at our throats hurt?
Yeah.
I was going to have you wrap to like athree verse because it's like Run-D.M.C..
It's like, what's which part do you rap?

(30:35):
I mean, probably just the opening. I wouldhow you.
But Christmas every year
they as tradition go to this one barand they wrap Christmas in Hollis.
I would have loved to have seenwhat the first time they tried that with
that bar was because it's like,what is this bar
that set up just to have you performChristmas in Hollis?
Yeah.
Lizzy Caplan saysthe only karaoke bar open on Christmas.
So that's why they do itthere. That's right.

(30:56):
They also go to a Chinese restaurant.That's one of their traditions.
They go to 30 Rock Rockefeller Centerto see the Christmas tree.
Seth Rogen says we just
we shot it from across the street,which is all we could afford.
That's amazing.
So if you if you pay close attention,you'll see they're actually not there,
but they're rightacross the street from it.
It's, I think, relatablebecause everyone has their own traditions,

(31:20):
like way of opening presents,or some people do it the night before.
I've ran into people that do that.
They do it the night before.
Oh, another title drop.
I don't want to be annoying about thison this episode.
We do it at my grandma's house.
Well, we do like my family does it,like just my immediate family.
And then we'll go to, like,my grandma's house and just,

(31:42):
like, have other, you know, presentsthere just to see everybody.
And then there's like, usually,like a party with, like, the extended
family, like that Christmas Day,during the evening or whatever.
So that's my, that's my family tradition.
What about yours? Like,what do you guys do?
Well, toward the end there,
I mean, it changed over the years,but I think like the last ten years
of my grandfather's
life, we'd go to his house,my mom would make dinner early on,

(32:05):
and then we'd all goto midnight mass together,
which is at 10 p.m.,because that makes sense. I,
yeah,I'm so glad I was never forced to do that.
I think my mom forced it out of usone year, and we were do.
We were just so miserable.
I'll say.
I'll say this, though.
Midnight massI would do over the children's mass,
which is at 6 p.m., is 6p.m., is just filled with crying kids.

(32:26):
And it's the worst, midnight.
If you can get a 10 p.m. midnight,that's pretty good, because it's not.
If it was midnight, man,
like, I could barely handle a midnightmovie anymore,
but midnight mass just, you know, I was.
My skin was crawling, dude.
I was like, I just drink beer.
Usually. Get me out of here.
I could handle it.
It was just, you know,I was feeling like Seth Rogen in the.

(32:47):
Well, yeah, it is.
You got to get up at fucking, seven in the morning and go to 8 a.m.
mass because you got to get the pie readyand you got to get the other.
You get all the stuff ready.
So, like, you're either stuck with you,do you? Midnight mass.
You can sleep in a little bit,open your presents, get everything ready,
or you got to get your butt up in,
you know, in the morning,or you go to the children's mass.
And the children's mass was funwhen I was like eight.

(33:09):
But like, now I don'tI don't want anywhere near that.
That is a man that is a big Ole hot mess.
And getting church getting.
If you don't get there early,you can't get a seat
and then you got the kidsdo like the little Jesus,
the nativity scene play,which is a fun time.
But, you know.
Yeah, it's I like the setup, too, of like,it's a very simple plot

(33:30):
and it's kind of like going that waythe whole way
through and up until the very end,where it's like Joseph Gordon-Levitt,
he you genuinely, you know, he'skind of a kid, you know, can I tell you,
I thought you were talking about the plotof the nativity play at the mass.
Oh, no. No, I'm back to themovie. Way worked in my head.

(33:50):
Go bring it back.
Try to bring it back to seed.
We're like, he wants to enjoy this.
He knows it's the last time he.
Christmas means somethingentirely different to him.
But you got Seth Rogen on this drug trip,so he's not in the right state of mind
to be there for his friend.
He also is thinking about having a baby,and he doesn't want to be a father.
Yeah, he'skind of having a meltdown over that too.

(34:11):
Like, yeah, anxiety over that.
And then, his other friend AnthonyMackie is just worried
about impressing the Messiah,and getting this weed the whole time.
And so he's kind of left aloneat one point, you know, just like this
was supposed to be our lastChristmas together.
You guys are not there for me. And.
Yeah, you know, culminating,I guess, with him

(34:33):
getting beaten up by two, drunken Santas.
I like the I like thethe beating up by drunken Santas.
Point is pretty damn good.
Well. And Mackie keeps getting his weedstolen.
So, yeah, this is a further obstaclethat's delaying them
from getting to the Messiahat the Nutcracker Ball.
And I mean, you get the fun
shenanigans on both sides because like yousaid, he gets weed stolen.

(34:54):
She's like, pretending to be a super fan,and they have sex in the bathroom.
Just funny. Yeah.
That was. Yeah.
And then she steals this weed. Yeah.
I just like the button on that sex scenewhere she's.
She's on.
She's on top, and he's just like, she's.
Oh, now take a dump.
Just like, this is disgusting.
That was so gross.
That is more like it. Definitely.

(35:15):
And I think it's interesting too,that they are
three peoplebringing gifts to the Messiah.
So you have the three kingsbring gifts to the Messiah through.
And it's it's actually the sameI think it's it's it's
similarly demographically similar tothe Three Kings too, which is interesting.
So and and Seth, like
just I think Seth Rogen,this is one of his best performances.

(35:38):
I'll say that.
It's so unhinged, it'shard to convincingly Joseph Gordon-Levitt
was talking about like the method of this,which was just funny
to think about in itself, but like that,the director was like giving him what
you would give an actor like directions,but like, you're on Molly in this scene,
so you would be acting this way herelike you're on coke in this seat.

(35:59):
So it'd be this, this type of way.
And like,I just think it's so funny watching him
just again go completely bonkers.
And he.
Instead of just, like, being like, I'mjust going to get water and, like, sober
up. He's like, I need to eat more shroomsand maybe mellow out more.
And it's like, dude, stop taking.
They're all like,stop taking these drug keeps.
And he keeps trying to just like, yeah,put pit the drugs against each other.

(36:22):
It's like me.
It's it's not culminates in the sceneat midnight mass, which is amazing.
Yeah. Maybe one of the funniest scenesin the movie.
It's so funny.
I love the baby that he's interacting withbecause I've had that moment.
I've had babies, baby staring at him,peering at me.
He starts hissing at the baby.
And then he has tothrow up and can't get out of the seats.

(36:42):
But just
the general awkwardness where it's like,first of all,
I think that's a fumble on Jillian
Bell's part, where it's like,if I knew my partner was in that state,
I would do anything in my powerto be like, I'm
telling my people, I'm with,sorry, he's not feeling well.
You know, he had to go.
I would not be letting them in that door.
And you would have also thought
she would have told them ahead of timethat he was out with his friends.

(37:04):
So they just ran into him.
So the fact that they want himto come to mass
when he's out with his friends, you know,
but he's also so out of it,he can't say no.
Yeah. Like when she says that,like he's like he's with his friends.
She's like, I don't see them anywhere.He's like, yeah, I don't see you though.
He's just like,so oblivious to, like, everything.
Oh, he was talking to a saint.
The shepherds in the nativity scene.
Oh, my God,that whole conversation is great.

(37:24):
He's doing the Hallelujah.
She's not that kindof church, not the country.
And gets a cease.
Jesus starts freaking out and,you know, starts throwing up.
She's like, swallow it like a girl.
You know?
Which I was like,is this something I'm unfamiliar with?
But I guess,I guess that's sort of throwing up.
That just seems disgusting.

(37:44):
It seems like it would make you throw itmore, right?
When I, when I was.
Yes, I have to say,
it's not good for your throat to actually,it's really bad for your body to do that
because then you can causepermanent damage.
And then just doI know that don't ask throws up
in the middle of the church and just like,oh God, such a button.
What was the quote at the beginning?
It was so weird.
Just,you know, we did not do that to Jesus.

(38:06):
He's, like, freaking out.
He's like having multiplepanic attacks about religion.
The baby, the baby in the churchthe baby's about to have.
I actually, I looked into thethe Deicide thing with the Catholics
because I was curious about, like,what's the history of that?
I didn't know this,but the Catholic Church didn't
officially reverse its stance on having,
the implication in the mass be that, the Jewish people were responsible

(38:31):
for the death of Christuntil, like the 1950s in, like the 50s.
And it's like a it's official statementstill pervades, dude.
Like, even though you know
that their official stance I, you know,you still see that out there, you know.
Yeah.
Well, it's not their official stance,but there are people who
still hold on to that.
And I think there are a lot of people
who want to go backwardsto pre Vatican two times.
Yeah.
And those people a lot of times

(38:52):
if you let them talk for a while,eventually you'll come around to
some anti-Semitic bullshit. Yeah.
So basically within the 20sthere was a group called
Amity Israel,a Catholic organization founded in 1926,
and they wanted to fosterpositive attitudes towards Jewish people
and to pray for their conversionto Christianity,
which, you know,no one's asking for that, guys.

(39:12):
So maybe don't do that.
But, but they had requestedthat the phrase perfidious Jews
be removed from the Catholic liturgy,which it was in
thereas a perfidious Judas in the Latin Mass.
The Pope at the time, Pope
Pius the 11th, was purportedlylike really in favor of the change.

(39:34):
And he asked, the congregationof the rights to review the matter.
But the Roman Curia was,
very negatively opposed to that proposalto remove that language.
It seems like the main reason, they didthis was out of maintaining
tradition,essentially tradition for tradition sake.

(39:54):
In 1928, in March, the congregationfor the doctrine of the Faith
issued a decree ordering the suppressionof the Clerical Association
of the Friends of Israel.
So essentiallythe doctrine of the faith issues
a statement being like, yeah,we don't like the fact that this, group
that's trying to help the Jewish peoplein our church exists.
So let's just snuff it out.
So they essentially make it non-existent.

(40:16):
I don't exactly understandhow these legal papers or anything work
in the Catholic Church.
It's very Vatican is very convolutedin this way.
I, I don't understand a lot of it.
The Pope actually asked the
the Sacred Congregation of Rightsto come up with a suitable reform.
So something in betweenthat will just work.
But an opponent of the association,Cardinal Rafael

(40:38):
Mary Deval, who was the head of the SacredCongregation of the Holy Office.
These names are awesome.
Here's the statementfrom this Cardinal to the Pope.
I would hope that these images, Israel,would not fall into the.
He's Italian, I think so.
So just imagine it being his English beinglike, with the hope of these images.

(41:02):
I would hope that these images, Israelwould not fall into a trap laid
by the Jews themselves,who insinuate themselves
throughout modern society and seekwith whatever means to minimize the memory
of their history and take advantageof the goodwill of Christians.
That seems anti-Semitic in and of itself.
On March 8th, Pope Pius the 11th
caves
in andaccepts the findings of the Holy Office.

(41:23):
He asks that, the justificationfor the decree be made with great care
to avoid looking like anti-Semitism,since they did not remove the words
perfidious Jews. Right.
But nevertheless, he said,and here's, here's what the decision was.
But he saidhe inevitably could not approve
initiatives contrary to the universal

(41:44):
liturgical tradition.
And so here's the official decreethat they came up with the kind of like,
not actually do shit,but make them not sound that Semitic.
The Catholic Church has always prayedfor the Jewish people who,
until the coming of Jesus Christ, werethe depository of the divine promises,
in spite of,or even more because of, the continual

(42:07):
blindnessof that people with such charity.
Has the apostolic CE protectedthe same people against unjust vexations,
because it removes all hatredsand animosities between peoples.
It condemns without reservation hatredagainst the people once chosen by God,
a hatred that today is commonlycalled anti-Semitism.

(42:28):
So they didn'tdo anything, and they released a statement
making it sound like they did something,but they didn't do anything.
They just. Yeah. Flowery language.
It's the same thing they do with gaypeople today.
They say, well,don't discriminate against gay people.
Also, by the way, you are disordered.
It's very familiar.
But anyway, I just
I saw the movie and I waswe were talking about and I thought,

(42:50):
well, when did the Catholic Churchreverse course on this?
And it's surprisingly not until, like the1950s or 60s, like late 50s, early 60s.
So I guess this paranoia is justified.
You know, there's probably a grandparentswho, like, remember those times
and probably experienced hatredand anti-Semitism from Catholics.
Well, yeah,
all those scenes where it's just like,do you think they know I'm Jewish?

(43:10):
He's like, yeah, why?Because you're sweater.
And he's like, he like covers up.
He's like, oh no. Yeah.
Yeah, he's he's great.
And it it's like it'snot really a register.
You see Seth Rogen like usually if there'sa drug trip in the in one of his movies,
it's one scene, you know, and he's backto being leading guy Seth Rogen.
So I like that just in this one.
He just got to let looseand be that the whole time.
Oh, it's it's so great. Yeah.

(43:33):
He was kind of in that mode.
I have you listen to the Van Helsingepisode of How Did This Get made yet?
I recently relisten to itbecause it's so good.
Yeah, he's in such a vibe,similar like mode.
I just really listen to the cats episodeand he gets it on there too.
And he just had, he had like ait was a virtual one during the pandemic.
Oh yeah.
But he did like a five minute like call inand just like was just like

(43:54):
brought in all this informationthat they were already talking about.
Yeah.
Do that guy that that moviereally fucked me up in the pandemic.
And that'sso I'm glad that they did that show
because I was like, okay,at least I don't feel like horrible
all the way about watching this moviebecause it was, dude,
I felt like there's this farmer,Jason Mantzoukas, who's in this movie.

(44:16):
He's one of the drunken Santas.
So it kind of relates, yeah, wherehe's like, I'm alone in this house.
I have to after this podcast, I haveto sleep after having just watched Cats.
He, I like I like that scene, too.
And I have a, like a quick like, storykind of around it, but like,
so there's a scene where we talked aboutwhere he gets

(44:37):
beat up by these two drunken Santas,one played by Jason Mantzoukas,
because again, that like child side of himthat, you know, he can't grow up.
He's holding on to Christmas.It means this to him.
You know, you put on the Santa suits.
It means something, right?
It's a symbol of goodness. Yeah.
And so they're drunkenly pissingon the side of a building,
and he gets mad at them and they,you know, he.

(45:00):
And it gets mad at them.
And I guess what I, I've, I've lived
this like not thislike the whole beat up scene,
but like in real lifebecause there was a showing
at the Music Box one time and I dressedup, it was, Silent Night, Deadly Night.
Oh, yeah.
And I just thought it'd be funnyto just dress up like Santa
because it's like JoeBob was there, and I just like, oh, yeah.
I was like, it'd be cool in the picture.

(45:21):
I have pictures of it too. I can post.
Yeah, you should definitely post pictureswith Joe Bob.
Yeah, it was Joe, Bob and Darcyand they were so nice.
And I remember, like sitting outoutside of the movie theater in
that whole get up and like, smoking,like smoking a joint or something
like of mom and a like herkid, like, walked by it.
I was just going, is this wrong?

(45:41):
Like, should I not
know what
I honestly,this might be the Catholic guilt.
I felt guilty, like I was like,oh man, I didn't even think about that.
Like but it hit me.
I mean, in that moment,
Santa holds a similar spacein your imagination at that age to Jesus.
Right? You know,they're kind of interchangeable in a way.
So I just I'm kind of magical being.

(46:01):
I just had to mention thatbecause that scene
just, like,brought that up where I was like,
oh man, I actually did livethat kind of concept in real life.
That's amazing.
Yeah, I mean, it's not a symbol.
It's it's, where it's like,obviously I was paying homage
to a slasher Santa villain,but as a kid, get to know that.
No, they would it.
You know what I mean?

(46:21):
You forget, like, how it's really trust usto give them the right information and
and they shouldn't.
And but they dobecause they're so innocent.
That's why my favorite line, Mantzoukas says of their two.
He's like, I'm a third grade teacher.
I shape the use of the future.
I do love shaping minds.
And it's like, boy,
that is scary to think aboutand also accurate like that is 100%.

(46:44):
What happens is wild when your friendsgrow up and become teachers
and you're like, likeyou shouldn't be around kids.
Probably for any length of time.
Well, yeah,I mean, I there's, there was at least one
like that, but like, you know,
most of them, I'm just kind of like,it's wild that you are a teacher now.
Yeah. Good for you.
I hope we've all evolved as human beingssince then.

(47:08):
Those days, this
this friendship arc throughoutthis whole thing
is really interesting too,because Anthony Mackie's it, you know, arc
is interestingbecause he's kind of he's successful.
Well,you think he's got his shit together.
And then it turns out he really doescheating.
And and he's trying to
to push off the sort of coming of old ageand like, you know, sports.

(47:28):
You're an old man by the time you're 30.
Right, 29, 30 somewhere in there
and if you're 40 doing sportslike I think he's 34, they say.
Yeah.
And they kind of, you know, JosephGordon-Levitt kind of calls him out
on that.
Or, I mean, I kind of get wherehe's coming from.
Like, maybe he didn't have to, like,fully on attack them.
Yeah.
You know, because but emotions were highin that right scene.
But like where he's, you know, you shouldyou've known each other your whole like,

(47:51):
why are you lying about your,your status as an athlete
or whatever to your best friends,
you know, and it's like there is somethingkind of sad about that.
And that's all he was trying to
do, is like, you reach the pinnacleof your career at 34, man, come on.
Like, well, think that blows open for him,especially when well, between them
discovering the steroids, butalso when they go to the Nutcracker Ball

(48:13):
and he meets the Messiah and realizesthese guys are kind of like they're jerks.
They're they don't they're. Yeah.
They're just trying to use him are like,I don't know, it's kind of like blurry
what they think of them,but they clearly don't respect him.
Like I was a wide receiver.
Maybe they think he's,
you know, when you get older,a lot of times those older athletes
kind of hold that status of like,yeah, you were good back in the day.

(48:34):
But this is our team now.That's kind of the vibe I was getting.
Well then of course they end upcrucifying the Messiah.
Crucify the Messiah.
I think from the director,I'm going to get his name too,
because, it's such a good,full circle moment that Jonathan Levine,
who wrote and directedthis movie, said that Seth Rogen
that was a last minute changewhere they had to, he had the idea of

(48:55):
we should call him the Messiah,and I should crucify him at one point.
And so they had, like, last minute set upthat, like, cross thing at the ball.
So they could put that together.
I do love that payoffthough. It's so great.
And even that'sone of my favorite lines too.
Or it's such a small line,but we're Michael Shannon.
Anthony Mackie tells him about itand he goes, there's only one messiah

(49:17):
in my book. That's the guy upstairs.
I love it.
I love that Michael Shannon.
That's awesome.He calls it blasphemy. Yeah, yeah.
He's like, that's kind of blasphemous, yo.
Like, I love thatMichael Shannon is like one of the like,
he's like the spiritual center of the filmin a lot of ways.
Yeah, he's he's the he's
one of the most religious peoplein the movie, which is very funny.

(49:38):
And he's a drug dealer
and he meets with all of them,and he's giving them
their visions of future, pastand present through joints.
Yeah, through weed, which,I mean, to be fair, marijuana used as a,
a spiritual aid in certainreligious communities traditionally.
So not that farfetched, just not Catholic.

(50:00):
But yeah, and of course, this
all ramps up to the birth of Seth Rogan'schild and Julian's child.
Well, we first skipone thing at the Nutcracker Ball.
We always.
This is the Miley Cyrus concert.
Okay. Sorry.
How? Just get my own.
Yeah, I especially because we theymentioned Miley and Hot Tub Time Machine,
and then we end up with Miley here.
More crossover. I do love that.

(50:20):
This could easily have been, you know,because he just wants to sing a song
for this woman to get her back. Maybe.
Or maybe convince herto give him a chance.
And Miley's like,no, you got to go all the way.
You got to propose.
Yeah.
Not knowing anything about their history,
but it's a very Christmas movie thingfor somebody to do.
Yeah, even.
Even, Mackie's mom,his character's Chris,

(50:40):
Chris's mom, when they go to his housefor, like, to buy weed again.
But she
even says take advantageof this time of year.
There's magic in there. And that is.
I agree with that. Like, that is real.
Like people, you know, not everyone.
But there is a certain thing in the airthat like,
people try to, like, are in better moodsor like try to make big,

(51:00):
grand romantic statementsthis time of year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a popular time of the year for that.
People are feeling more like,I guess, more generous, more giving.
And I like that complexitywhere it's like,
Lizzy Caplan clearly still has feelings.
Yes, we're just Gordon-Levitt,but like, complicated.
But he's he's not that's notthat wasn't the right move.
And Miley kind of pushes him to do it.

(51:22):
Makes with the Christmas of it all.
And I was kind of thinking of that whereit's like it's it wasn't really his fault,
the whole marriage proposal thing,that was her idea.
But I kind of get it, he says at the end.
You know, I'm I don't want to be the guymaking excuses anymore.
So he he leaves that part out,which again, I thought was mature of him
because I would have been like, bro,Miley told me to do it.
You want me to? Yeah. We don't. That would be me.

(51:43):
I'd be like, Miley told me,you want me to say no to Miley?
Because she says the same thingwhen she says yes, she goes,
yeah, Miley wanted me to say yes.So I said yes.
Right? Well, that was my wife.
So that she was like, I wouldn't say no.
But also like, this is terrible.
Like I would, I would run the
hell out of there because they're still, cleaning things up with each other.
I mean,
I guess the main thing is thathe wouldn't meet her

(52:04):
parents after, like, two years,which is do that.
Yeah, it is kind of ridiculous.
Like. Yeah, understandably.
You understand where she's coming fromtoo, and that, and then you get James
Franco, the James Franco cameo at the end,which is I think is another set.
We didn't we didn't set this up.
But earlier,
accidentally, Mindy Kaling and Seth
had switched phones and Seththought he had his own phone.

(52:27):
He was textingthis guy named Jim James. Yeah.
And eventually,you know, James sent him a dick pic,
and then he's like, oh, that's pretty.
You know, he'scommenting on it, everything.
And then when they run into him, itturns out it's James Franco, which, yeah.
You know, your thoughts about JamesFranco side?
It's very funnyin the context of the movie especially,
we know the relationshipbetween these two guys in real life,
especially when this came out,it was a little more.

(52:49):
Now, if this happened, people,there'd be a backlash.
I think for sure, backwhen this happened,
it was a different time.
And at the time it was funnybecause it was like, oh, that's so funny.
And then they just laugh
and it's funny because like James Francoalmost seems more into Seth than Mindy.
With Seth, I'm sending him all the textsabout the dick and everything.
So it's a nice dick, bro.
Yeah, it's a good bit.

(53:10):
I mean, he's so mad about it. I know,
he's having that panic, too,at the dinner scene where he's just like,
I think he wants me to suck itor something, like,
I guess, I guess we're doing thislike he's.
I guess you're hearing his inner monologueas he's texting with James,
which is just so like,that was one behind the scenes thing.
I was cracking up at whereit's all internal.
So he's reading these textsand it's just Seth Rogen facial reactions.

(53:34):
And off screenyou hear the director, Seth Rogen is like,
you want to just give me like a few?
And he's like,okay, like, like you're just,
like a curious, lady or something.
And then he hearsyou see this face like, oh, like.
And it's like, okay.
Like you're like you're scaredbut interested or like, he's
doing all these, directions to him.

(53:56):
And I was like, oh, man, that's great.
And they were all cracking up about itevery time.
Well, it'ssomething I should go back to as well
that we didn't talk aboutwas during one of the Mr. Green stops.
They are in front of Anthony Mackie'smom's house and they come up with a plan.
He didn't want to see herbecause he's scared
that she's going to knowhe's in town or nearby and like,
then she's going to try to show him offat church and everything.
And this is obviously obviouslysomething that embarrasses him.

(54:17):
I Jack, he comes offlooking the worst, to be honest.
Like he doesn't see his mom.
He's like ashamed of his friends.
I'm like,come on man. Like he does grow and learn.
By the end of the movie,
we see him having dinner with his momand rekindling that relationship.
Whatever was there, and he realizesto like all that embarrassing stuff,
like showing him off at church,like that's her being proud of her son.
And exactly.

(54:38):
I think he realizes, you know,she worked hard to provide, for him.
And, you know, there are things you dofor your mom when your mom and you have
even when you have a tense relationshipwith her, it looks like a single parent.
Yeah. We don't see the dad. Exactly.Which makes it a bigger deal. Yeah.
And I think that's really an interestingturn of that character
that we see that growth, and we also seeSeth Rogen become kind of comfortable.

(55:01):
He he is so scared becoming a dad.
And Jillianso good at talking him off the cliff
and being like, no, I mean, we don't knowwhat the hell we're doing, right?
But I also don't want to do thiswithout you.
You're the perfect person to do thiswith, right?
And that was the kind of confidence boostthat Seth needed to realize.
Like, nobody knows what they're doingwith a baby.
Like, literally no one.
Yeah, he records this, like, panickedmessage when he's high on cocaine. Yes.

(55:23):
Like to the baby and to himself.
Yeah. But like, this is a mistake.
We shouldn't be doing this.
Yelling at the baby.
And then, of course, JosephGordon-Levitt, we have
we've talked about the relationshiprekindling and how he's learned
to kind of like, look, I'mgoing to be more here for you.
And and he gives her,
like, a reason, like, not an excuse for,like, run a reason why he might feel

(55:46):
he might have felt uncomfortablemeeting her parents
because he doesn't have any,which is again, valid.
Come back to the orphan thing.
And then of course, you know, we.
So and then the of course is the scenewhere they need to get to the hospitals.
The baby's being born near the end here,and they find Mr.
Green's abandoned car, which is finally,after all of that, what allows Mr.
Green to earn his wings and fly to heavenbecause he is an angel?

(56:09):
Of course I loveand like I love that moment, son.
I guess because like Tracy Morgan goes,yeah, you're you're my proudest.
So I like, you know,we switch to the framing device
of the book and then Tracy Morganis there with all the elves and
Michael Shannon's there it is.
Like I of all my my CS man, you you're my.

(56:31):
I'm proudest of you or something,but this is okay.
This this raisessome questions for me, though.
Does this mean that Santa is God?Yeah. Or Jesus?
That's what you're talking about.
It's murky angel. It's murky.I don't know,
these are the questionswe need answered on this part.
I'm no theologian, but I think maybe Jesusand Santa are the same person.
I love to what he, like closesthe book and like,

(56:51):
all the elves are, like, just giggling.
And he just goes, that was a story.
Real shit went down.
It's like it's a rare you get a narrator
like talking aboutthe quality of the movie they just read.
You know, it's very meta,but in a very funny way.
I don't know, this whole thing worksreally well for me.
And it's a nice package.
It's a tight like.
Is it, is it 100 minutes? Is it 96?What is it?

(57:13):
I can check it's somewhere around there.
It's a pretty tight number.It feels tight.
It doesn't feel overly long.
It doesn't overstay its welcome.Yeah. You're right.
100 minutes.Yeah. You never feel tired in this movie.
It's not boring or tedious.
It really gets through everything.
I'm gonna read the Catholic News,
agency review of this because I can't findthe official USCCB review.

(57:34):
I'm not gonna read the whole thing.
I'm just gonna read the partsthat apply to
what we're concerned withbecause they sum up the plot. Good. Yeah.
For those who are seeking
sweet holidaysolace, steer clear of this movie
already off to a banger.
So this is the Night is also packedwith profanity, a wild bathroom sex scene,
and a whole lot of drug humor en routeto a conventionally moral happy ending.

(57:56):
It also features a blasphemous scenein which Rogan's character has the sudden
need to vomit from all the drugshe's taken right in
front of the mill of his wife,celebrating midnight mass with her family.
He does so in the center
aisle of the churchbefore calling out Jesus's name in vain.
It's a shame, because the night beforecontinues Rogen string of movies
in which his character and his costarsengage in disreputable behavior en route

(58:18):
to learning positive and even morallyconservative life lessons.
He has said in a rolling Stone interviewthat we make conservative movies
for stoners,meaning he and his mentor Judd Apatow
try to send conservative messagessubversively into the kind of audience
that would never consciously seeksuch messages out.
I don't know if I buy that because

(58:38):
I don't know.
It's conservativeto like, value family and friends.
I don't thinkthat's uniquely conservative.
They obsess over it.
I was just going to saythey that's kind of like what they
are like promoting.
Like,I like what they say is like their values.
Well, you hear that a lot.
Traditional values,they definitely want that to be the case.
Yeah. You know what I mean?

(58:59):
I mean, they're reading into thisa lot more than they should be.
Marriage, fatherhoodand faith are all expounded upon favorably
by the end of the night before.
But Catholic audiencesshould approach with extreme caution
because there are plenty of moral pitfallsalong the way.
There's a place for outrageousand even raunchy humor,
since it is not possible to take itseriously and emulate it.
But in a Christmas movie like this, it'sharder than usual to justify

(59:24):
the content light on it.
I guess I was actually kind of surprisedthey didn't go harder,
especially if there's like so many likeChristmas slashers and things like that.
Or it's like they're clearlyjust using the holiday just to.
Be a trademark or something.
All right.
So from a moral perspective and obviouslyeveryone's morals are different, but
I do feel like this movie at its corehas a very profound moral message.

(59:48):
And the reality is the messy behaviorthese guys are displaying is very real.
Yeah.
Like we've all known someone who's takenevery drug they could one night,
or maybe not everybody.
But like,if you're listening this podcast called
Morally Offensive, oddsare you probably have that friend or
somebody you've seen know somebody,you know, somebody,
you know, a lot of this behavioris not that unheard of in New York.

(01:00:10):
It's New York.
And I think that's realistic.
But the overall message of the movieand not that it has to have a message,
but I think what is trying to sayis it's saying
interesting things about male friendship,about families, about the very real fear
that men have over having a baby,starting a family, getting married, aging.
Yes, aging in general.Just neurosis. Over.

(01:00:33):
I'm not where I wanted to be in my career,even though it's out of your control
for the most part.
Or yeah, like you said,aging with Anthony McCarty's character.
He's willingto essentially sell out his friends
to get ahead because he's tryingto get ahead of the Grim Reaper.
Right. Or for financial reasons, maybe.
Yeah, financial.
I mean, and he ends upbeing very shallow as a result.

(01:00:57):
You know, he's doing all these videosfor social media all the time
promoting a product.
And I definitely know people like thatdo like when social media is unfortunate.
It's like and it'sit's like you're hanging out with them.
But yeah, you might as wellnot even be there.
It's I mean, my fucking MLM rep, you know,somebody who always every interaction
has to do with like they're selling,a product, essential oils or something.

(01:01:20):
You know what I mean?
And every interaction is like, oh,you should come to this thing I'm doing.
Oh, you I, Red bull.
Oh, by the way, it's with my MLM.
And it's like,why can't we just be friends and hang out?
Yeah.
I mean,I don't know that many of those people,
but I've known those people,you know what I mean?
It's sad because you're like,why don't you just let go of that
and get a real just get a normal jobor or sell your own stuff?

(01:01:42):
You know, and, I mean, I understandI'm a DJ.
I have to do social media stuff,I have to promote.
And when I first got my smartphone,it was hard to learn those boundaries
because it was all new.
But eventually you realize, like,this looks really dumb.
If I'm out and I'mnot interacting with people,
it's like, why am I even out of the house?Right? Right.
If you're shooting videos and postingand reacting to your likes or whatever.

(01:02:05):
Yeah, this movie has a lot to say.
That's really interesting.
And I think it's not underminedby the gross things that do happen.
Or like the, quote,morally offensive, right?
That's right.
Used for like a greater purpose,I would say definitely.
So yeah, with all that being said,let's move on to the rating system.

(01:02:27):
Let's start off with
our devil horns system out of five.
What would you rate this film?
Okay, scale of 1 to 5 devil horns.
We're talking offensiveness.
Yes, yes, I am giving it a.
Well, it gets extra points, I think.
Like an extra half point or full point
for vomiting in church and taking Jesusname in vain at midnight mass.

(01:02:49):
So it's probably the big one, right? Yeah.
And compared to.
But I find Hot Tub Time Machinemore offensive than this for me.
That's, that's kind of whereI'm, like trying to gauge it.
Yeah, yeah I did I did a three for HotTub Time Machine or was it 3.5?
I think it's a 3.5. I did 3.5.
We did three I did three. Yeah.
All rightI'm giving this guy a 2.5 okay. No

(01:03:14):
I guess I'll give it a three.
It kind of does exist in the same spaceas Hot Time Machine, but I feel like Hot
Tub Time Machine was more offensivein a lot of ways.
It's like religious offensiveversus, like, just morally.
That's the thing.
The blasphemy really pushes it into like,yeah, we're stars.
So I don't really know.
I'm going to go with three.
I'm just doing three.Let's do three. Okay.
Yeah, I'm kind ofI think I'm on the same boat.

(01:03:36):
I'm looking at it
compared to Hot Tub Time Machineand like kind of similar reasons.
I do think that's just more crassor like gross for being gross sake.
So whereas like even that,those type of scenes
where it's like throwing up in church or you can have like a simplistic view of it
where it's like you'rejust desecrating the church or whatever.
It's like, you know,he went to midnight mass, you know, he's

(01:03:59):
he tried his best, you know,he could have control those going.
I think that's the most millennialCatholic response is like,
he showed up, right.
You watch a midnight mass.What do you want?
Silent. Quitting.
Just quiet. Quitting church
of Catholicism, false ism, I think.
I think I'm going to give it A32 then.
I mean, you should put in more workthan what you're being paid for, right?

(01:04:20):
Exactly. And that includes church.
I mean, that's sexy.
He was so quick and like,you know what I mean?
Like a lot of the things in that review,they were clothed.
Yeah, there's no titties in this.
Yeah, there's none of that.
There's no nudity, really,I don't think. Right.
Yeah. I think he's fair.
Okay, let's move on to our halo system
where we just ratethe film on general quality.

(01:04:41):
I think for all the reasons that we kindof talked about this whole thing.
It's a great holiday movie.
It's a great friendship movie featuresa cast of actors that have just continued
to, like, blow up, you know,and, and comedic actors were, you know,
when I was showing to my brother, my mom,it's like, oh, that person, that person,
you know, it's like
it's really it's really fun and engagingin like every scene because of that,

(01:05:05):
because there's someone new that entersthat's like
just as entertaining, just as funny.
It's like youwhen you watch a movie from the 90s
and realize how many people were in itwho went on to do things.
It's that kind of movie.
The Miley Cyrus cameo is greatwith the wrecking Ball scene.
You know, I love Mindy Kaling's too.
Like, it's got everything.
You can dance to it, you can run to it.

(01:05:27):
Well, and I think,I think the wrecking ball in this movie
makes more sense than Black Eyed Peasand Hot Tub Time Machine.
Ooh, that's a good point.
That's a good because they.
But it's a good questionabout the song scenes.
But I think Wrecking Ball a wrecking ballI think was better.
It has aged better.
It will have some people know what that is20 years from now.
I do think people will know the BlackEyed Peas song, but it feels weird.

(01:05:48):
Something about like that choiceand Hot Tub Time Machine.
If you go listen to episode three,we talk about this at length.
Yeah, it feels weird. Wrecking ball.
It does.
It feels of that time when this was madeand it will feel that way.
But I don't like Miley Cyrus has shownthat she has longevity as a pop star.
That's true.
And she's doing duets with Dolly.
You know what I mean.
Like I think I think Wrecking Ball works.

(01:06:11):
It also kind of like itI don't you know let's get it started too.
I forgot to mention this.
What the original title of that.
It's a that's let's getit started is the final version okay.
You know whatthe original version of the album version?
No. Was Ithis is like my most useless fact
that I know,but I had the Black Eyed Peas album.
That's why I knew it on CD. Okay.
It was let's get re the R word

(01:06:35):
retard.
No, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I so so that's already like agedat the worst I like doctors,
I worked with them like when that boomboom the album was like boom boom pow.
Yeah. They're like I like electronic.
I worked with them during that, like,oh shoot, it was wild.
But like and then when you listen toa song where it's like, let's get stupid.
Yeah, you know, and stuff like that,it's like, whoa, like so I don't know.

(01:06:58):
Anyway, it's good they change the title.
Yeah, let's getlet's Get it started is a lot more.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh that's they call it that early on.
Let's that's actually like good on themfor catching that.
But it's though man wild times evidently.
So yeah.
Yeah I don't know I think this isan enjoyable Christmas movie for everyone.
My mom enjoyed it is she's a Catholic.
I think that speaks volumes.

(01:07:19):
And my friend did too.And I showed it to him.
So this might be just like a new annual.What?
This my second year in a rowwatching this on Christmas.
So I'm gonna give it threeand a half halos out of five.
Yeah. What about you?
I might lean towards four, actually.
Yeah, I was in that area.
I was, I'm like, should I, I don't know,
I don't want to like it's hardbecause I have to judge it for what it is.

(01:07:40):
It's a comedy, right?Judge it in the context of a comedy.
Great jokes.
It's not a perfect comedy,but it's a lot of fun.
It's very rewatchable.
It does have a good arc.
I find it very satisfying to rewatch now.
Is it at the level of like,Doctor Strangelove or Some Like
It Hot or, you know, more recently,like, I'm trying to like

(01:08:01):
an undeniable,like, comedy from the last ten years.
It's hard because there's not a lot of,like, Dirty Christmas comedies either.
No, it's not like you don't have anythingto compare it to in there.
I mean, Bad Santa, I guess is oneI do the Bad Santa.
Yeah.
No, but I think it itit touches the fact that it pulls off
Christmas magic,that feeling of Christmas magic.
And it feels like a Christmas movie.

(01:08:22):
And it's a dirty, raunchycomedy executed well.
And it has a great midnightMass joke, which, you know,
you're winning over me that way.
Yeah,I somewhere between a 3.5 and a four.
Yeah. Which is like 75.
Yeah, not sure reading, but I feel likeI feel like it's really good.
I feel like and I'm a champion for this.
It's going to grow every year.

(01:08:43):
I keep telling people, see this movieand yeah, you're not going to watch it
with your grandmaunless your grandma chill like that.
It's shockinghow many people haven't seen this movie.
I don't it's surprising because the castit it would make sense that more.
You got Captain America in this.
The new Captain Americawas in this dirty comedy.
Yeah, it's 2015.
It's so weird that more people don't knowthis as a Christmas film, which is.

(01:09:06):
And I was looking for research on this.
I think that's also better than Hot TubTime Machine is that you can run this back
every year. Yes.
Yeah.
It's got evergreen potentialof watching every year.
And also like it hasn't agedas poorly as Hot Tub Time Machine.
That's true. Granted,we have five more years to find out,
but I think it seems like it was.

(01:09:26):
What was the worst age thing,the James Franco cameo, maybe?
Yeah, the James Francocameo was the worst thing in the movie.
Yeah. They'll age poorly.
But also here's the thing though,just from watching a lot of old movies
give it like 30 years, 40 yearswhen you have young people who have
who have no ideawho James Franco is beyond being an actor,
it'll be interesting to watch itthrough their eyes,

(01:09:46):
a reevaluation,because they're people find that baggage.
We're starting the reevaluationhere, goddamn it.
I know,
but they're going to
they're not going to be coming to itwith the baggage that we are
knowing about James Francoand what working with him is like
and everything that's come out about him.
So I think that'll be interesting.
But I like that we are a podcast promotingthis film talk and a lot of Glazer's.

(01:10:07):
I just watched a movie on Huluwhere she's the star.
Yeah.
It's like and she this was when she was on Broad City around the time
this came out.
And the special features,they said, that was only on the first
or second season when that going,that came when this movie came out.
So like, the director was like,I'm glad that I didn't watch or like,
she hadn't made more seasonsbecause I would have been starstruck,

(01:10:28):
like working with herbecause she's so good on that.
Wow. Yeah.
So thank you for listeningto this episode of Morley Offensive.
We will be back in two weeks coveringjust in time.
Well, probablyjust after the release of the new version,
the original 1922 Nosferatu.
What will be interesting isthis one is not officially

(01:10:50):
on the Legion of Decency list,but there was a lot of pushback to it
because it was fundedby people deeply involved
in the esoteric arts and in the occult,so it feels highly appropriate.
And oddly, it is now, after many decades
on the Vatican's listof 40 recommended films you must see

(01:11:11):
so yeah, there's there's a lot of thingswe've been talking about
critical reevaluation, what's morallyoffensive or not at the time.
You know, it's going to beI think it's gonna be a fun one.
I'm excited for this one.
We are bringing in my special guest,giallo film expert
Stephanie Sach,who I've presented films with in, Chicago
and who I'm going to be working onwith some screenings.

(01:11:32):
So I'm going to be working withon some screenings for this year,
probably in Chicagoand also perhaps Milwaukee.
It looks like we're playing some stuffhere, so we'll be talking with her.
She is a riot.
And also one of the smartest,
just commentatorson specifically Italian horror film.
But she is also very knowledgeable
in German Weimar cinema,so I'm very excited to have her on board.

(01:11:55):
It's going to be a fun one.
Oh yeah.
If you want to keep up with what I'm upto, I, post my art
and animation stuff as Bill Netherlandsboth at Instagram and over at TikTok.

DJMrAutomatic is me over at Instagramand over at TikTok.
I do a lot of stuff on music
there, deejaying and a lot of oddlike obsolete media.
Lately I've been getting into eight tracksand doing stuff with that Cisco.

(01:12:19):
Yeah, you can, catch my other podcastmovie buffs.
We stay buff on Instagram or justwherever you find podcasts and then,
misfit underscore minded on threads,Instagram, blue sky, all that good stuff.
Thank you for listening.
And as always, go and sin no more.
You've been listeningto the Morally Offensive podcast.

(01:12:41):
Our podcast is produced and written
by Cisco Skarlatos and Bill NetherlandsHolland.
Our podcast is edited by Joe Waltz
and our music is by BillNetherlands Holland.
Thank you for tuning in. Oh.

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