January 3, 2025 • 15 mins
In this episode, I try to forecast 3 big trends that we will see in Canadian mortgage tech in 2025, and what that says about the state of the industry and where it's headed.
In this episode I cover: → How the pendulum has swung with how people think of software in the mortgage industry and is moving towards consolidation. → Brokers & Agents shifting to different types of lending and how software could follow them. → AI: Where it's been since 2023, trends that are forming, and where there are opportunities with it moving forward.
***
WATCH
▶️ Watch this episode on Youtube
***
CONNECT
***
SAY THANKS
🙏 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
***
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, everyone.
(00:00):
Tom here coming back to you at
2025.
We had a great 2024, a ton of
great episodes, a ton of greatguests, and we're going full steam
ahead into 2025.
I think it's going to be an
exciting year for tech.
And with that in mind, for this
episode, I do my predictionepisodes.
The first one I'm doing, but maybeit'll become a tradition where I
look at the year ahead and I tryand pick out three big trends and
predictions related to it.
(00:21):
And so really what I talk about is
a little bit of consolidation andhow people are thinking about
software in the mortgage industry.
I also talk about different types
of lending and different kind oftrends that I'm seeing of where
I'm seeing brokers going and howthe software industry might follow
them.
And then finally, like a lot of
these episodes that I've had overthe past year, I spent a good
amount of time talking about AI,the implications going forward and
some interesting trends that I'mseeing and some cool bets I think
(00:44):
people can make going forward.
Fun episode.
If you do have predictionsyourself, want to hear them, of
course.
We'll see you on the other side.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to Mortgage Tech
Talks.
Let's get right into it.
This is my 2025 tech predictionsepisode.
I think it's going to be a wildyear.
(01:06):
So let's get right into it.
So prediction number one here.
So the prediction relates tomortgage tech, and it's a trend
that we've kind of seen evolveover the past, I'd say, five to 10
years.
And that's the trend of really
consolidation versus many toolsfor a mortgage broker.
So just to, I guess, provide alittle bit of context background,
(01:27):
of course, call it 10 years ago,really the main mortgage tech tool
out there was FileLogix Expert.
That was the main one that most
people used.
And there wasn't too many other
tools being used.
Yeah, some top brokers used
certain, I guess, maybeproductivity tools, but there
wasn't this huge proliferationbecause bottom line was there was
kind of one system and it was apretty closed system.
So it was hard to kind of... Iguess, interweave different tools
(01:49):
into your mortgage process otherthan really email, something like
that.
And really what happened about
five years ago is that theseplatforms started to open up
really at the same time as otherplatforms coming on the scene,
things like Velocity, Venmo,Scarlet, Boss, all these different
platforms started coming online,competing with Phylogix and
probably because of thiscompetition.
They realized they could competeon their openness, on an open API.
(02:09):
And so openness came, BlueMortgage, my company, of course,
was able to kind of ride that waveand integrate with these
platforms.
And a lot of other companies did
too.
So you had this kind of big
proliferation, a ton of differenttools coming online.
And there was excitement abouttech.
I think that was the other thingthat was happening is that, hey,
it wasn't this stale system again.
It was a renewed, I guess, vigor,
(02:30):
if you will, in JD Mortgage techspace.
And there's a lot of different...
tools coming to market, people
getting excited about it.
So all really good things.
But fast forward today, so thatpendulum swung pretty hard this
way.
And actually, do you know what?
I think my bold prediction for2025 is that pendulum is starting
to come back.
And two big reasons why.
So the first one I would say ismaybe just a little bit of
(02:51):
exhaustion, right?I think over these past, call it
five years, brokers have beenpitched every single tool under
the sun.
And I think...
People are getting exhausted ofthose pitches, these promises that
maybe people don't live up to.
I don't know.
Just simply having way more loginsof all these different portals
they have to log into.
I think people are getting a
little bit exhausted of that andcraving a little bit of
(03:12):
simplicity.
I don't think we're going to swing
all the way back to one system torule them all.
I think we will land somewhere inthe middle where most brokers are
using two, maybe three differentone of these tools.
But not, you know, 510 that maybewe're kind of seeing today or at
least is being brought to themarket today.
So I think we're going to see thatcaused by some of that exhaustion.
And then the other reason I thinkit's going to happen a little bit
(03:32):
is I think there's a little bitof, call it uncertainty more than
anything with new regulationscoming out.
And we've had other episodes aboutregulations.
I won't go on and on about it.
But the big thing right now, I
think, is that uncertainty.
What does this mean?
What's this going to do?And there's some security.
in using, I call it, you know,your brokerage's software tools.
So if you go out there and you'retrying to do maybe some of these
AML type activities by yourself,you know, you're kind of out there
(03:53):
alone in the, whatever, in thedesert.
I don't know if that's the rightanalogy or not, but there's a
little bit of security in beingwith the group and, you know, the
software provides that security orthat group type thinking.
And so I think people will findsome security in.
going back to their brokerage orwhat the rest of the team is
doing.
And inevitably, that usually is
going to meet a little bit ofconsolidation using a single
system that maybe the brokerageendorses.
(04:13):
And so between those two things,both the exhaustion maybe of all
these different logins and some ofthese new regulations, I think the
pendulum is going to come back theother way.
What's going to cause that beatsme?
Honestly, it could be a thousanddifferent things.
Maybe my bold prediction for 2020,call it nine.
I don't know.
And maybe the pendulum starts to
swing back the other way will bethat it won't be.
brokers who will have to keeptrack of these things and learn
(04:36):
all these new systems.
It'll be maybe, I don't know, AI
agents.
And I have a section on AI later
we'll get into.
But that's what I could see
actually bringing the pendulumback the other way where, hey,
it's not me who has to think ofall these things, do all these
things.
I have an agent that's really good
at that, that specializes in that.
And all I have to do is tell it
what to do.
(04:56):
And it finds the best tool for the
job.
And whether that's one tool or a
thousand tools, it doesn't matterso much because my interface is
one thing, it's that agent.
I guess that's a double
prediction.
2025, we're going to see a little
bit of consolidation.
And then, hey, maybe in 2029 or
whatever it is, it's going to comeback the other way maybe with some
of these AI agents.
We'll see.
Let's go to prediction number two.
So prediction number two, I think,
something I've been hearing moreand more, and I don't know if this
(05:17):
is maybe the one I'm least certainof, but I'm going to put it out
there anyways, which is more focuson commercial side lending.
I think that for a lot ofresidential brokers.
They're going to start looking atthe commercial side, especially,
you know, there's a great CMHC,the MLI Select program that
there's a ton of financing goingout for.
And I'm seeing a lot of the topbrokers that I follow on social
media and things like thatstarting to look at this type of
program.
I think there's a lot of reasons.
(05:37):
I don't know the program too muchspecifically, but I think there's
a lot of reasons for that.
And at the end of the day, too, I
think that it aligns with a lot ofthe rhetoric we're hearing out of
our provincial and federal andeven municipal governments of
saying, hey, we need moreaffordable housing.
Sure.
And usually what that looks like
is multifamily or these purpose-built rentals and a multifamily.
(05:57):
building or unit matches that.
And so I think that lines up,
right?And that, hey, we have a very
attractive financing programthrough CMHC, the Crown
Corporation, and that matches whatthe government's saying.
So that kind of lines up.
And I think more and more brokers
are going to realize that andstart finding their way over into
that.
So without going much further down
that kind of whole explanation, Ido think from a software side, I
(06:19):
think it actually presents areally interesting opportunity.
So I just Googled basicallycommercial mortgage.
software in Canada.
And when it pulls up here, you
know, the first three are kind ofthese consolidation type, get app,
Capterra, they just kind of bringeverything together.
I don't pay much mind to thosesame software world.
And the first two here, one isCMLS was talking about their
(06:40):
commercial software.
And then the other one is
Intellified.
If you remember from earlier
episodes, first of all, they justmerged with Nesto or Nesto just
bought them actually.
But also CMLS and Intellify,
they're the same company.
They're under the same umbrella.
So really, it seems just from aquick Google search, it's only one
real prominent solution.
And I'm not an expert on it.
(07:02):
I don't know it.
If I click into it here, let's
just see this one that Intellify,it's called Orbit Technology
Solution.
Modernize your lending and broaden
your data partner ecosystem withan end -to -end technology
solution.
It's seamless and integrated end
-to -end commercial lendingexperience.
So I don't even know if this is abroker product.
It might be for lenders becausethis is under Intellify, which is
under the CMLS umbrella.
(07:23):
So I think, you know, with this
trend going on with more and moreresidential brokers maybe find the
way into commercial.
I think this presents a unique
commercial opportunity.
I think until now, just to give my
experience, some brokers come tous who do commercial and say, hey,
can you help us maybe tweak yourCRM to match ours?
And we've never said, hey, there'snot a critical mass for us to do
that in Canada.
(07:45):
Critical mass being brokers who do
commercial deals.
But, you know, the straw that
breaks the camelback, maybe we'regetting close to that where we
have enough commercial brokers whoare doing this type of work that
it makes sense, financial sensefor people to come into the space
and make.
commercial specific software.
So I think that's an interestingtrend.
Is it going to happen 2025, maybe2026?
I don't know.
But I think we're seeing more and
(08:06):
more brokers going that way.
And where brokers go, usually the
software follows.
So that's my number two
prediction.
Like I said, a little more
uncertain, but I'm putting it outthere.
Okay, last one here.
Prediction number three, I
promised it earlier.
And really, no show has been
complete this year without amention for it.
So I have to do it and just talkabout AI.
What does that look like in 20?25. I want to kind of take a step
(08:27):
back and maybe do a review, lookback in 2024, that'll help me look
forward into 2025 of what's goingon.
What I've noticed is, hey, and Iguess it was 2023, November 23,
October 2023, ChatGPT came out,right?
And that was this big boom.
And that was great.
I mean, it's a fantastic tool.
I use it all the time.
I use it for brainstorming morethan anything.
I think it's a great kind ofbrainstorm partner.
(08:47):
You can also act as a searchengine.
It does some great things.
But really since then, and it's
been whatever, 15 months, Ihaven't seen any other really
great commercial application.
And honestly, if you look, if you
just dive a little bit deeper intomost of these applications, it's
just a very thin layer overChatGPT, right?
So I've talked about in previousepisodes where even for us, we've
embedded.
AI elements into the CRM, but all
(09:08):
it's doing is it's summarizingnotes.
All it's doing is taking yournotes, sending it to ChatGPT and
getting the response.
But really 90 % of that is ChatGPT
and then 10 % is the integrations.
And so all new tech really that
has come out in the past, call it15 months, has just been ways to
interact with ChatGPT.
And people listening might tell me
I'm wrong, but that's just myquick assessment.
And there's definitely maybesome... I don't know, fringe
(09:29):
elements or fringe products outthere that maybe buck that trend.
But that's the general trend thatI see.
And so I just think that's reallyinteresting.
So the point is, is that we kindof have this chat GPT and there's
no real commercial applicationsfor it yet other than a small
layer.
And the reason I think is because
it's too general, What general,right?
(09:50):
But it's not... so smart just yet.
So it's in this weird place.
So where does it go?I think it kind of splits and go
one of two places.
So the two problems being it's too
general, but not smart enough toreally do things, deep things like
a human could.
And so, you know, the first thing
you do is you go down, you know,the AGI route, the artificial
(10:10):
general intelligence, getting itclose to a human.
And, you know, I think a lot ofpeople are pursuing that with a
lot of vigor, spending a lot ofmoney on it.
You got XAI, got OpenAI, you gotMicrosoft, Google, all these
people spending a ton of money onall these GPUs trying to get to a
much smarter, much moresophisticated model version of
ChatGPT.
And I think that's a great route
to go.
(10:31):
I think that's a long.
road to go, but it's a good roadto go.
But that's one way, I think, wherethis chat GPT kind of diverges.
One way is just, OK, let's get itsmarter and smarter and smarter
and smarter until it's much closerto a human level intelligence.
So, OK, hopefully we'll get there.
And that's an interesting path to
see.
But I think the other way is just
starting to get hyper specificwith, you know, these models and
really these tools that you have.
(10:52):
And so instead of just like a
general, you know, chat GPT thatanswers some questions.
starting to get more and morespecific.
And actually, my bold predictionis that it's not just enough to
say, hey, I'm going to have a, youknow, train a model like ChatGPT,
but for mortgage agents, I don'tthink that's actually going to be
enough.
Still too general.
I think it has to be, you know, aChatGPT, a model that is specific
to me.
To me specifically, it's like
Tom's model that he uses, and itlooks at all of Tom's emails, all
(11:15):
of Tom's notes, the way he talks,the way he does all the things
that he does with his clients,with his colleagues, with his
friends, it doesn't matter, andmakes a Tom agent, right?
And we talked about these agents alittle bit earlier.
So I think...
The other way we go is just
getting hyper specific.
And it's not even just industry
specific.
I think it's almost like person by
person specific.
And the way I think about it is,
(11:37):
you know, AI is going to turn intoa VA, a virtual assistant, let's
call it, you know, virtual in avery real sense.
Think about a VA, you don't justget, this is kind of weird to
think about a person who's acookie cutter, a VA for mortgage,
that still wouldn't work.
What you need is a VA who's
specific to your business, whoknows how your business works.
And I think that's the way theseAI agents are going.
(11:59):
And so with that in mind, wheredoes that leave the opportunity in
terms of technology?Well, I don't think it's going to
be, you know, this traditionalSaaS model where someone makes one
thing and can distribute it to athousand people and everyone can
use these bots.
Because again, each bot's got to
be unique to the person.
That's my bold prediction.
And so our traditional model ofhow we think about software and
how it's built and distributed, Ithink that's not going to actually
(12:19):
work in this kind of new paradigm.
I think instead where the
opportunity exists is, I think,two things.
One would be, again, in thehardware, we're seeing a lot of
opportunity in hardware.
And actually, just as an
interesting side note, NVIDIA cameout just this week with a $250
GPU.
So a super cheap thing.
And for anybody who's curious, aGPU is really the tool, or I guess
the hardware that trains thesemodels.
And so it's a super, super cheappiece of hardware that really
(12:40):
anybody can pick up and use totrain a model.
Again, maybe NVIDIA has seensimilar type trends, I don't know,
but they've obviously invested alot of time and focused on this
very small, bite -sized piece ofhardware that can train these
probably similarly bite -sizedmodels, but hyper -specific.
So that's just a quick side note,but kind of aligns with that
trend.
So again, it's in the hardware,
that opportunity.
Or the other thing is, maybe it's
not software, maybe it's servicesthat allow you to take a model and
(13:02):
train it to be your... specificperson.
So I think the opportunity existsin products or services that help
you train your AI model or AIagent, let's call it.
So it's not the AI agent itself.
Again, they all have to be very
specific, but any type of serviceprovider or product that helps you
train your AI agent, I thinkthat's where an interesting
opportunity lies.
(13:23):
So there you have it, folks.
I mean, really kind of went downthe gambit.
We talked about consolidation inthe mortgage tech industry.
talked about commercial lendingand how that I think is going to
be a growing trend and softwarefollow.
And then I went down a little bitof the nerdy, I guess, rabbit hole
of AI and talking about, hey, it'seither AGI, but that's not us.
That's going to be Google and allthese big companies.
(13:43):
But I think where the opportunityexists for us is finding these
tools that are going to allow youto train an AI agent to become
your own personal virtualassistant in the most real sense.
So that's my bold prediction for2025.
Maybe we'll do a recap at the endof the year and see how many I got
right, see how many I got wrong.
(14:03):
But I think those are the trends
I'm seeing right now.
And yeah, we'll see.
If you have any other trends orpredictions, feel free to leave
them in the comments section belowand we'll see you next week.
Hey, everyone.
(00:00):
Tom here coming back to you at
2025.
We had a great 2024, a ton of
great episodes, a ton of greatguests, and we're going full steam
ahead into 2025.
I think it's going to be an
exciting year for tech.
And with that in mind, for this
episode, I do my predictionepisodes.
The first one I'm doing, but maybeit'll become a tradition where I
look at the year ahead and I tryand pick out three big trends and
predictions related to it.
(00:21):
And so really what I talk about is
a little bit of consolidation andhow people are thinking about
software in the mortgage industry.
I also talk about different types
of lending and different kind oftrends that I'm seeing of where
I'm seeing brokers going and howthe software industry might follow
them.
And then finally, like a lot of
these episodes that I've had overthe past year, I spent a good
amount of time talking about AI,the implications going forward and
some interesting trends that I'mseeing and some cool bets I think
(00:44):
people can make going forward.
Fun episode.
If you do have predictionsyourself, want to hear them, of
course.
We'll see you on the other side.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to Mortgage Tech
Talks.
Let's get right into it.
This is my 2025 tech predictionsepisode.
I think it's going to be a wildyear.
(01:06):
So let's get right into it.
So prediction number one here.
So the prediction relates tomortgage tech, and it's a trend
that we've kind of seen evolveover the past, I'd say, five to 10
years.
And that's the trend of really
consolidation versus many toolsfor a mortgage broker.
So just to, I guess, provide alittle bit of context background,
(01:27):
of course, call it 10 years ago,really the main mortgage tech tool
out there was FileLogix Expert.
That was the main one that most
people used.
And there wasn't too many other
tools being used.
Yeah, some top brokers used
certain, I guess, maybeproductivity tools, but there
wasn't this huge proliferationbecause bottom line was there was
kind of one system and it was apretty closed system.
So it was hard to kind of... Iguess, interweave different tools
(01:49):
into your mortgage process otherthan really email, something like
that.
And really what happened about
five years ago is that theseplatforms started to open up
really at the same time as otherplatforms coming on the scene,
things like Velocity, Venmo,Scarlet, Boss, all these different
platforms started coming online,competing with Phylogix and
probably because of thiscompetition.
They realized they could competeon their openness, on an open API.
(02:09):
And so openness came, BlueMortgage, my company, of course,
was able to kind of ride that waveand integrate with these
platforms.
And a lot of other companies did
too.
So you had this kind of big
proliferation, a ton of differenttools coming online.
And there was excitement abouttech.
I think that was the other thingthat was happening is that, hey,
it wasn't this stale system again.
It was a renewed, I guess, vigor,
(02:30):
if you will, in JD Mortgage techspace.
And there's a lot of different...
tools coming to market, people
getting excited about it.
So all really good things.
But fast forward today, so thatpendulum swung pretty hard this
way.
And actually, do you know what?
I think my bold prediction for2025 is that pendulum is starting
to come back.
And two big reasons why.
So the first one I would say ismaybe just a little bit of
(02:51):
exhaustion, right?I think over these past, call it
five years, brokers have beenpitched every single tool under
the sun.
And I think...
People are getting exhausted ofthose pitches, these promises that
maybe people don't live up to.
I don't know.
Just simply having way more loginsof all these different portals
they have to log into.
I think people are getting a
little bit exhausted of that andcraving a little bit of
(03:12):
simplicity.
I don't think we're going to swing
all the way back to one system torule them all.
I think we will land somewhere inthe middle where most brokers are
using two, maybe three differentone of these tools.
But not, you know, 510 that maybewe're kind of seeing today or at
least is being brought to themarket today.
So I think we're going to see thatcaused by some of that exhaustion.
And then the other reason I thinkit's going to happen a little bit
(03:32):
is I think there's a little bitof, call it uncertainty more than
anything with new regulationscoming out.
And we've had other episodes aboutregulations.
I won't go on and on about it.
But the big thing right now, I
think, is that uncertainty.
What does this mean?
What's this going to do?And there's some security.
in using, I call it, you know,your brokerage's software tools.
So if you go out there and you'retrying to do maybe some of these
AML type activities by yourself,you know, you're kind of out there
(03:53):
alone in the, whatever, in thedesert.
I don't know if that's the rightanalogy or not, but there's a
little bit of security in beingwith the group and, you know, the
software provides that security orthat group type thinking.
And so I think people will findsome security in.
going back to their brokerage orwhat the rest of the team is
doing.
And inevitably, that usually is
going to meet a little bit ofconsolidation using a single
system that maybe the brokerageendorses.
(04:13):
And so between those two things,both the exhaustion maybe of all
these different logins and some ofthese new regulations, I think the
pendulum is going to come back theother way.
What's going to cause that beatsme?
Honestly, it could be a thousanddifferent things.
Maybe my bold prediction for 2020,call it nine.
I don't know.
And maybe the pendulum starts to
swing back the other way will bethat it won't be.
brokers who will have to keeptrack of these things and learn
(04:36):
all these new systems.
It'll be maybe, I don't know, AI
agents.
And I have a section on AI later
we'll get into.
But that's what I could see
actually bringing the pendulumback the other way where, hey,
it's not me who has to think ofall these things, do all these
things.
I have an agent that's really good
at that, that specializes in that.
And all I have to do is tell it
what to do.
(04:56):
And it finds the best tool for the
job.
And whether that's one tool or a
thousand tools, it doesn't matterso much because my interface is
one thing, it's that agent.
I guess that's a double
prediction.
2025, we're going to see a little
bit of consolidation.
And then, hey, maybe in 2029 or
whatever it is, it's going to comeback the other way maybe with some
of these AI agents.
We'll see.
Let's go to prediction number two.
So prediction number two, I think,
something I've been hearing moreand more, and I don't know if this
(05:17):
is maybe the one I'm least certainof, but I'm going to put it out
there anyways, which is more focuson commercial side lending.
I think that for a lot ofresidential brokers.
They're going to start looking atthe commercial side, especially,
you know, there's a great CMHC,the MLI Select program that
there's a ton of financing goingout for.
And I'm seeing a lot of the topbrokers that I follow on social
media and things like thatstarting to look at this type of
program.
I think there's a lot of reasons.
(05:37):
I don't know the program too muchspecifically, but I think there's
a lot of reasons for that.
And at the end of the day, too, I
think that it aligns with a lot ofthe rhetoric we're hearing out of
our provincial and federal andeven municipal governments of
saying, hey, we need moreaffordable housing.
Sure.
And usually what that looks like
is multifamily or these purpose-built rentals and a multifamily.
(05:57):
building or unit matches that.
And so I think that lines up,
right?And that, hey, we have a very
attractive financing programthrough CMHC, the Crown
Corporation, and that matches whatthe government's saying.
So that kind of lines up.
And I think more and more brokers
are going to realize that andstart finding their way over into
that.
So without going much further down
that kind of whole explanation, Ido think from a software side, I
(06:19):
think it actually presents areally interesting opportunity.
So I just Googled basicallycommercial mortgage.
software in Canada.
And when it pulls up here, you
know, the first three are kind ofthese consolidation type, get app,
Capterra, they just kind of bringeverything together.
I don't pay much mind to thosesame software world.
And the first two here, one isCMLS was talking about their
(06:40):
commercial software.
And then the other one is
Intellified.
If you remember from earlier
episodes, first of all, they justmerged with Nesto or Nesto just
bought them actually.
But also CMLS and Intellify,
they're the same company.
They're under the same umbrella.
So really, it seems just from aquick Google search, it's only one
real prominent solution.
And I'm not an expert on it.
(07:02):
I don't know it.
If I click into it here, let's
just see this one that Intellify,it's called Orbit Technology
Solution.
Modernize your lending and broaden
your data partner ecosystem withan end -to -end technology
solution.
It's seamless and integrated end
-to -end commercial lendingexperience.
So I don't even know if this is abroker product.
It might be for lenders becausethis is under Intellify, which is
under the CMLS umbrella.
(07:23):
So I think, you know, with this
trend going on with more and moreresidential brokers maybe find the
way into commercial.
I think this presents a unique
commercial opportunity.
I think until now, just to give my
experience, some brokers come tous who do commercial and say, hey,
can you help us maybe tweak yourCRM to match ours?
And we've never said, hey, there'snot a critical mass for us to do
that in Canada.
(07:45):
Critical mass being brokers who do
commercial deals.
But, you know, the straw that
breaks the camelback, maybe we'regetting close to that where we
have enough commercial brokers whoare doing this type of work that
it makes sense, financial sensefor people to come into the space
and make.
commercial specific software.
So I think that's an interestingtrend.
Is it going to happen 2025, maybe2026?
I don't know.
But I think we're seeing more and
(08:06):
more brokers going that way.
And where brokers go, usually the
software follows.
So that's my number two
prediction.
Like I said, a little more
uncertain, but I'm putting it outthere.
Okay, last one here.
Prediction number three, I
promised it earlier.
And really, no show has been
complete this year without amention for it.
So I have to do it and just talkabout AI.
What does that look like in 20?25. I want to kind of take a step
(08:27):
back and maybe do a review, lookback in 2024, that'll help me look
forward into 2025 of what's goingon.
What I've noticed is, hey, and Iguess it was 2023, November 23,
October 2023, ChatGPT came out,right?
And that was this big boom.
And that was great.
I mean, it's a fantastic tool.
I use it all the time.
I use it for brainstorming morethan anything.
I think it's a great kind ofbrainstorm partner.
(08:47):
You can also act as a searchengine.
It does some great things.
But really since then, and it's
been whatever, 15 months, Ihaven't seen any other really
great commercial application.
And honestly, if you look, if you
just dive a little bit deeper intomost of these applications, it's
just a very thin layer overChatGPT, right?
So I've talked about in previousepisodes where even for us, we've
embedded.
AI elements into the CRM, but all
(09:08):
it's doing is it's summarizingnotes.
All it's doing is taking yournotes, sending it to ChatGPT and
getting the response.
But really 90 % of that is ChatGPT
and then 10 % is the integrations.
And so all new tech really that
has come out in the past, call it15 months, has just been ways to
interact with ChatGPT.
And people listening might tell me
I'm wrong, but that's just myquick assessment.
And there's definitely maybesome... I don't know, fringe
(09:29):
elements or fringe products outthere that maybe buck that trend.
But that's the general trend thatI see.
And so I just think that's reallyinteresting.
So the point is, is that we kindof have this chat GPT and there's
no real commercial applicationsfor it yet other than a small
layer.
And the reason I think is because
it's too general, What general,right?
(09:50):
But it's not... so smart just yet.
So it's in this weird place.
So where does it go?I think it kind of splits and go
one of two places.
So the two problems being it's too
general, but not smart enough toreally do things, deep things like
a human could.
And so, you know, the first thing
you do is you go down, you know,the AGI route, the artificial
(10:10):
general intelligence, getting itclose to a human.
And, you know, I think a lot ofpeople are pursuing that with a
lot of vigor, spending a lot ofmoney on it.
You got XAI, got OpenAI, you gotMicrosoft, Google, all these
people spending a ton of money onall these GPUs trying to get to a
much smarter, much moresophisticated model version of
ChatGPT.
And I think that's a great route
to go.
(10:31):
I think that's a long.
road to go, but it's a good roadto go.
But that's one way, I think, wherethis chat GPT kind of diverges.
One way is just, OK, let's get itsmarter and smarter and smarter
and smarter until it's much closerto a human level intelligence.
So, OK, hopefully we'll get there.
And that's an interesting path to
see.
But I think the other way is just
starting to get hyper specificwith, you know, these models and
really these tools that you have.
(10:52):
And so instead of just like a
general, you know, chat GPT thatanswers some questions.
starting to get more and morespecific.
And actually, my bold predictionis that it's not just enough to
say, hey, I'm going to have a, youknow, train a model like ChatGPT,
but for mortgage agents, I don'tthink that's actually going to be
enough.
Still too general.
I think it has to be, you know, aChatGPT, a model that is specific
to me.
To me specifically, it's like
Tom's model that he uses, and itlooks at all of Tom's emails, all
(11:15):
of Tom's notes, the way he talks,the way he does all the things
that he does with his clients,with his colleagues, with his
friends, it doesn't matter, andmakes a Tom agent, right?
And we talked about these agents alittle bit earlier.
So I think...
The other way we go is just
getting hyper specific.
And it's not even just industry
specific.
I think it's almost like person by
person specific.
And the way I think about it is,
(11:37):
you know, AI is going to turn intoa VA, a virtual assistant, let's
call it, you know, virtual in avery real sense.
Think about a VA, you don't justget, this is kind of weird to
think about a person who's acookie cutter, a VA for mortgage,
that still wouldn't work.
What you need is a VA who's
specific to your business, whoknows how your business works.
And I think that's the way theseAI agents are going.
(11:59):
And so with that in mind, wheredoes that leave the opportunity in
terms of technology?Well, I don't think it's going to
be, you know, this traditionalSaaS model where someone makes one
thing and can distribute it to athousand people and everyone can
use these bots.
Because again, each bot's got to
be unique to the person.
That's my bold prediction.
And so our traditional model ofhow we think about software and
how it's built and distributed, Ithink that's not going to actually
(12:19):
work in this kind of new paradigm.
I think instead where the
opportunity exists is, I think,two things.
One would be, again, in thehardware, we're seeing a lot of
opportunity in hardware.
And actually, just as an
interesting side note, NVIDIA cameout just this week with a $250
GPU.
So a super cheap thing.
And for anybody who's curious, aGPU is really the tool, or I guess
the hardware that trains thesemodels.
And so it's a super, super cheappiece of hardware that really
(12:40):
anybody can pick up and use totrain a model.
Again, maybe NVIDIA has seensimilar type trends, I don't know,
but they've obviously invested alot of time and focused on this
very small, bite -sized piece ofhardware that can train these
probably similarly bite -sizedmodels, but hyper -specific.
So that's just a quick side note,but kind of aligns with that
trend.
So again, it's in the hardware,
that opportunity.
Or the other thing is, maybe it's
not software, maybe it's servicesthat allow you to take a model and
(13:02):
train it to be your... specificperson.
So I think the opportunity existsin products or services that help
you train your AI model or AIagent, let's call it.
So it's not the AI agent itself.
Again, they all have to be very
specific, but any type of serviceprovider or product that helps you
train your AI agent, I thinkthat's where an interesting
opportunity lies.
(13:23):
So there you have it, folks.
I mean, really kind of went downthe gambit.
We talked about consolidation inthe mortgage tech industry.
talked about commercial lendingand how that I think is going to
be a growing trend and softwarefollow.
And then I went down a little bitof the nerdy, I guess, rabbit hole
of AI and talking about, hey, it'seither AGI, but that's not us.
That's going to be Google and allthese big companies.
(13:43):
But I think where the opportunityexists for us is finding these
tools that are going to allow youto train an AI agent to become
your own personal virtualassistant in the most real sense.
So that's my bold prediction for2025.
Maybe we'll do a recap at the endof the year and see how many I got
right, see how many I got wrong.
(14:03):
But I think those are the trends
I'm seeing right now.
And yeah, we'll see.
If you have any other trends orpredictions, feel free to leave
them in the comments section belowand we'll see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Betrayal: Season 4
Karoline Borega married a man of honor – a respected Colorado Springs Police officer. She knew there would be sacrifices to accommodate her husband’s career. But she had no idea that he was using his badge to fool everyone. This season, we expose a man who swore two sacred oaths—one to his badge, one to his bride—and broke them both. We follow Karoline as she questions everything she thought she knew about her partner of over 20 years. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-3 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.