July 24, 2024 • 17 mins
In this episode of NextGen PA, we delve into the concerning conditions at Dauphin County Prison. We explore the racial and socio-economic disparities within the prison population, and the impact it has on incarcerated individuals. We also discuss the lack of access to basic human rights, including medical care and mental health services. Join us as we hear from Michelle Angert, Maddie Graf, and CeCe Geigel as they discuss a recent report by UCLA's Lab for BioCritical Studies and the potential for reform under newly elected Commissioner Douglas. We'll also explore the reasons why these issues haven't received more attention and what can be done to raise awareness.
Read UCLA's Report: https://app.box.com/s/g4risq22x718xskdj30izzu2h4ue7zqm
Read UCLA's Report: https://app.box.com/s/g4risq22x718xskdj30izzu2h4ue7zqm
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Music]
(00:08):
Hello everyone and welcome back to NextGen PA.
I'm Michelle Angert and I'm joined by my co-hosts.
Hi, I'm Maddie Graff. I'm a rising sophomore at George Washington University and I call Camp Hill Pennsylvania my home.
Glad to be here.
Hi, I'm Cece Geigel and I'm a rising senior at Central Dolphin.
Happy to be here too.
(00:30):
Well thank you both so much for joining me this week.
In this episode we're going to be covering the conditions in Dolphin County Prison and the calls for reform based on a recent study and report published by UCLA's Lab for Biocritical Studies.
And we will publish a link to the report in our show notes.
So first I think we should probably start with a little bit of an overview about the racial and socio-economic disparities within Dolphin County Prison.
(00:59):
So who has some numbers who can talk about this?
Well I have a chart here that talks about the incarceration rate compared to the residents that live in Dolphin County.
And for every 10,000 residents in Dolphin County there are approximately 207 Black or African Americans that are incarcerated compared to their white counterparts at just 20.
(01:23):
Yeah that's a very significant disparity.
And if we look at those numbers compared to the actual breakdown of demographics in Dolphin County you can see that that's even more of a disparity than you already think.
So according to the most recent census 69% of the population of Dolphin County is white, well only 19% are Black.
(01:46):
So when you have 207 out of 10,000 are Black individuals that are incarcerated and only 20 are white incarcerated when white citizens of Dolphin County make up the vast majority of the population.
That's a real injustice.
I'm wondering has there been any actions taken place across Dolphin County to try and address this disparity?
(02:13):
I know that data was from 2018 so maybe there's anything different coming into 2024 now.
Yeah I personally haven't heard of anything.
I know that prison reform is not always the most glamorous topic for politicians and for community members.
So I think there's overall like a lack of kind of awareness and reporting and that that kind of leads to.
(02:42):
It's not being as much attention on disparities like this. I mean the fact that we can only find a chart from 2018 kind of tells you about the lack of reporting.
Have there been any outspoken speakers on this topic that you've heard from?
Well, I personally have heard from multiple people, specifically people who are interested or who are integrated in our local government.
(03:08):
We have fears about what's going on in the Dolphin County presence and who have spoken up about the racial disparities in incarceration rates.
Yeah so we also recently got an opportunity to meet and talk with councilman or no commissioner.
We got to talk with commissioner Douglas who was recently appointed I think six months ago.
(03:33):
I think about how he ran with a campaign based pretty majorly on prison reform.
It's a pretty incredible story to me because he was able to unseat and incumbent a Republican incumbent, especially incredible to me because his campaign was based on prison reform, which like I said is not always the most popular thing.
(03:56):
I think he has been a big advocate for this issue and I'm really excited to kind of see what action he can get.
Get done now that he's in an official position.
Yes, commissioner Douglas came into office six months ago.
So he's really very new but I think as you say it is very exciting to hear that someone who is such a strong advocate for prison reform and you know rights for those already incarcerated is very important.
(04:32):
So is there anything else that you would like to touch upon with racial discrimination and disparity within Dolphin County prison?
I think it's hard because it's an issue that I mean I don't have all the facts in front of me but I'm sure it's an issue that plays most prisons throughout the nation.
So it's something that isn't even just a local issue or something that we can address just locally.
(04:55):
It's a nationwide a country wide issue with our prison systems that I think is going to need a lot of work to be addressed.
I agree I also feel that because the people who are often treated poorly in these prisons are people of color.
A lot of people see it as less of an issue since they deem that these people are criminals that deserve to be treated like this but in reality they are humans.
(05:22):
So I definitely like that plays a role in how little this topic is spoken about.
Yeah, so let's move on a bit to like the conditions within the actual prison so for people who are currently incarcerated and corrections officers working there.
What information do you have about what the actual conditions are like inside the prison?
(05:46):
Well, from hearing from people's personal stories in my own life, I know that the guards themselves don't feel safe and neither do the prisoners.
People often say that it kind of feels like a jungle in prison and everyone's targeted and no one feels safe.
But I think that's a really terrible thing to experience when even though you've committed a crime in your serving as sentenced, you'd want to feel safe.
(06:12):
Similarly to the guards, it's their job to keep prisoners safe, but that doesn't always happen.
Yeah, and I think another thing that's really a big issue in these prisons is the access to medical care.
I've heard, I've read a few articles about how, how lacking that is and I know Commissioner Douglas was saying about how the health care.
(06:40):
I believe it was like the health care organization that's tasked with giving these services in the prison hasn't been audited in like a crazy amount of time.
I forgot what the exact year was new year count, but it was like a crazy amount of time for something that's such an important service to not be kind of checked and make sure that it's providing what it says it's providing.
(07:03):
I completely agree and I was very surprised when Commissioner Douglas said that the health care system within the prison hadn't been audited in such a long time.
That's just a basic human right.
If you're going to keep people in car straight, without options, they have no recourse to get their own medical care.
(07:27):
I think that's a big issue to provide it for them and if you're not going to do that adequately, I mean, that's just a denial of basic human rights.
And I think something that goes along with that lack of access to basic human rights is especially in the more recent years has been the heat.
There isn't adequate air conditioning or anything like that in the prison, which especially in these summer months where you know some of us are suffering outside in our daily lives.
(07:58):
That's all right, because we can go back to a house where we have AC.
We have a place to cool down and recharge, but if you're incarcerated, they don't have these same spaces available to them.
And that's yeah, that's just crazy to me.
I definitely agree, especially since like like Michelle said before, because they're being held there and they can't leave simple things like a small cut where you can't cover it with a bandage can turn into a really bad infection.
(08:26):
And now you have severe medical issues without any care.
Yes, yeah, and especially when you know you're seeing reports of very unsanitary conditions within like the structure of the prison itself.
And bodily fluids on the wall will be as you know careful to say that as possible, but you know different fluids around cockroaches in the kitchens.
(08:53):
You know, how can you expect people to stay healthy when that is the conditions that they are being locked up in for most likely 23 hours of the day.
And it's crazy. So let's move on to mental health, you know, mental health has been something that has been on most people's minds, especially post pandemic when we all sort of had a reckoning of maybe being locked in our houses for quite a while is not so good for our mental health and realizing that these are sort of similar.
(09:30):
So I'm wondering if there is any changes or things to do with mental health within doffin county prison.
Well, I haven't seen anything personally. I haven't seen any steps taken to ensure that the mental health of those prisoners is being taken seriously.
(09:58):
I definitely believe what you had mentioned before they only have 23 hours that they're actually in the prison that they're supposed to be out for one hour.
But a lot of research and study show that at least four hours outside can improve your mental health.
I don't think that, you know, mental health and prisons is taken seriously though.
I have seen different prisons across the country take that into consideration and add better counseling.
(10:25):
I haven't seen that yet in doffy county. I'm hoping with commissioner Doug with that some steps and no happening with them.
And another thing that I've seen which maybe isn't something that we can fully get into in this episode.
But I've been researching some of the the deaths that have occurred in the prison system and the one of Tyreech Riley which had gained a lot of attention.
(10:54):
I think it was a year or two ago.
He had been in the midst of a medical emergency and a mental had some sort of mental health crisis involved with that.
And I don't think we were given all the details by the prison system, but there was definitely some sort of mental health struggle involved when he was detained.
(11:17):
And that ultimately led to injuries that he sustained that then led to him, unfortunately passing away in a hospital.
So I think these medical or these mental health issues are something that are so important to be addressed because they clearly have really horrible outcomes that they aren't addressed for certain prisoners.
(11:40):
And I think it also comes down to like a basic human right thing where we all deserve to like we said already feel safe and feel like we are in a good mental mental health space obviously being in a prison is not going to be the most fun time.
But it should definitely you shouldn't be or you should be given care when you are having a genuine mental health crisis.
(12:09):
I also think and I really believe that mental health when you're not taken care of yourself properly or people don't take care of you properly.
Your mental health can ultimately affect your physical health and being in a prison where you're not being treated well.
And it's really putting a strain on your mental health.
It doesn't help with your body on the day to day.
(12:32):
I also think that like mental health and mental health care is key to helping these people eventually reintegrate into their daily life outside of the prison when they're released.
And I think if there isn't that mental health care then if there isn't that attention then what's stopping them from you know falling back into the same patterns that that got them put in prison in the first place.
(12:59):
I think if you start integrating mental health care that kind of helps helps the problem at the root a little bit and then hopefully helps people have more.
There are a better livelihood when they're out of prison and have gives them more ways to cope with things that might have otherwise led them to a more dangerous or illegal path.
(13:25):
Yeah. I mean we've touched on so many different points within you know the prison system itself in dolphin county that need to be changed and reformed in order to sort of have a functioning prison within our county.
And I'm just wondering if you know for both of you why do you think it's taken so long for these issues to really come to light you know now we have this report coming out there's a lot of news and media attention and it looks like potentially there might be some changes but I'm wondering if you know maybe you have some ideas as to why it's taken so long.
(14:04):
I definitely have a couple ideas I think number one it's kind of the out of sight out of mind idea where people don't think about it because it has nothing to do with their daily lives.
But along with that people don't really see prisoners as people when they're in prison they feel because they've committed a crime they deserve whatever happens to them.
(14:26):
And I think that's easier to think about rather than experience because I know people who have thought about that and they end up in prison themselves and they're looking for prison reform.
So yeah but I do think those are the two main reasons people don't think about it because it has nothing to do with them and they don't feel that prisoners deserve to have a normal life and a healthy life.
(14:48):
Yeah I completely agree with CC I think it's it's really easy for people to pick up or to advocate for cause for say children or something where it's it's seen as a more worthy cause in prison reform because in prison reform you're advocating for people who have been deemed criminals.
So I think it's it's that kind of stigma around it that's hard for people to get past and I think also they really there's a lack of awareness for what these conditions actually are.
(15:20):
I mean I can even say myself didn't have much knowledge about prison reform until I started looking into it this summer.
And like CC said it is kind of like an out of sight out of mind thing unless you're hearing about it unless you're reading articles and hearing like firsthand testimonies of what an imagining what life is in a prison it's easy to just kind of ignore it and not really empathize.
(15:49):
So I think that's also like awareness is a big key issue with that.
Yeah and I'm sure money is also another thing which is such a shame that I guess any of these reforms are going to require some kind of investment you know maybe state funds I'm not sure exactly how our dolphin county prison system is funded.
(16:11):
But you know it's going to require a significant amount of money to do anything I know they were even saying about potentially building a whole new prison because this one is so old and decrepit that it might cost more to fix it.
Then just build a whole new one which you know obviously creates a whole new set of problems but I think you know we have in this episode at least covered some things that hopefully can be changed in the future.
(16:40):
And I do see a glimmer of hope and it seems like both of you do as well.
Yeah for sure I think just continued advocacy and informing our youth is really important on this on this topic and I definitely see that there's hopefully some change coming.
Well thank you Maddie thank you CC for joining me today to discuss reforms of dolphin county prison that we hope to come to fruition very very soon.
(17:10):
So we'll definitely keep an eye on that and we hope you all will join us next time when we will discuss further the reports from UCLA document that came out detailing suspicious deaths within dolphin county prison and sort of the ramifications of that.
Why all this has come to light so I hope you will join us next time thank you all for listening.
(17:34):
Next Gen PA is a podcast from the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg. For more information on the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg visit our website at wacheresburg.org.
(upbeat music)
[Music]
[Music]
(00:08):
Hello everyone and welcome back to NextGen PA.
I'm Michelle Angert and I'm joined by my co-hosts.
Hi, I'm Maddie Graff. I'm a rising sophomore at George Washington University and I call Camp Hill Pennsylvania my home.
Glad to be here.
Hi, I'm Cece Geigel and I'm a rising senior at Central Dolphin.
Happy to be here too.
(00:30):
Well thank you both so much for joining me this week.
In this episode we're going to be covering the conditions in Dolphin County Prison and the calls for reform based on a recent study and report published by UCLA's Lab for Biocritical Studies.
And we will publish a link to the report in our show notes.
So first I think we should probably start with a little bit of an overview about the racial and socio-economic disparities within Dolphin County Prison.
(00:59):
So who has some numbers who can talk about this?
Well I have a chart here that talks about the incarceration rate compared to the residents that live in Dolphin County.
And for every 10,000 residents in Dolphin County there are approximately 207 Black or African Americans that are incarcerated compared to their white counterparts at just 20.
(01:23):
Yeah that's a very significant disparity.
And if we look at those numbers compared to the actual breakdown of demographics in Dolphin County you can see that that's even more of a disparity than you already think.
So according to the most recent census 69% of the population of Dolphin County is white, well only 19% are Black.
(01:46):
So when you have 207 out of 10,000 are Black individuals that are incarcerated and only 20 are white incarcerated when white citizens of Dolphin County make up the vast majority of the population.
That's a real injustice.
I'm wondering has there been any actions taken place across Dolphin County to try and address this disparity?
(02:13):
I know that data was from 2018 so maybe there's anything different coming into 2024 now.
Yeah I personally haven't heard of anything.
I know that prison reform is not always the most glamorous topic for politicians and for community members.
So I think there's overall like a lack of kind of awareness and reporting and that that kind of leads to.
(02:42):
It's not being as much attention on disparities like this. I mean the fact that we can only find a chart from 2018 kind of tells you about the lack of reporting.
Have there been any outspoken speakers on this topic that you've heard from?
Well, I personally have heard from multiple people, specifically people who are interested or who are integrated in our local government.
(03:08):
We have fears about what's going on in the Dolphin County presence and who have spoken up about the racial disparities in incarceration rates.
Yeah so we also recently got an opportunity to meet and talk with councilman or no commissioner.
We got to talk with commissioner Douglas who was recently appointed I think six months ago.
(03:33):
I think about how he ran with a campaign based pretty majorly on prison reform.
It's a pretty incredible story to me because he was able to unseat and incumbent a Republican incumbent, especially incredible to me because his campaign was based on prison reform, which like I said is not always the most popular thing.
(03:56):
I think he has been a big advocate for this issue and I'm really excited to kind of see what action he can get.
Get done now that he's in an official position.
Yes, commissioner Douglas came into office six months ago.
So he's really very new but I think as you say it is very exciting to hear that someone who is such a strong advocate for prison reform and you know rights for those already incarcerated is very important.
(04:32):
So is there anything else that you would like to touch upon with racial discrimination and disparity within Dolphin County prison?
I think it's hard because it's an issue that I mean I don't have all the facts in front of me but I'm sure it's an issue that plays most prisons throughout the nation.
So it's something that isn't even just a local issue or something that we can address just locally.
(04:55):
It's a nationwide a country wide issue with our prison systems that I think is going to need a lot of work to be addressed.
I agree I also feel that because the people who are often treated poorly in these prisons are people of color.
A lot of people see it as less of an issue since they deem that these people are criminals that deserve to be treated like this but in reality they are humans.
(05:22):
So I definitely like that plays a role in how little this topic is spoken about.
Yeah, so let's move on a bit to like the conditions within the actual prison so for people who are currently incarcerated and corrections officers working there.
What information do you have about what the actual conditions are like inside the prison?
(05:46):
Well, from hearing from people's personal stories in my own life, I know that the guards themselves don't feel safe and neither do the prisoners.
People often say that it kind of feels like a jungle in prison and everyone's targeted and no one feels safe.
But I think that's a really terrible thing to experience when even though you've committed a crime in your serving as sentenced, you'd want to feel safe.
(06:12):
Similarly to the guards, it's their job to keep prisoners safe, but that doesn't always happen.
Yeah, and I think another thing that's really a big issue in these prisons is the access to medical care.
I've heard, I've read a few articles about how, how lacking that is and I know Commissioner Douglas was saying about how the health care.
(06:40):
I believe it was like the health care organization that's tasked with giving these services in the prison hasn't been audited in like a crazy amount of time.
I forgot what the exact year was new year count, but it was like a crazy amount of time for something that's such an important service to not be kind of checked and make sure that it's providing what it says it's providing.
(07:03):
I completely agree and I was very surprised when Commissioner Douglas said that the health care system within the prison hadn't been audited in such a long time.
That's just a basic human right.
If you're going to keep people in car straight, without options, they have no recourse to get their own medical care.
(07:27):
I think that's a big issue to provide it for them and if you're not going to do that adequately, I mean, that's just a denial of basic human rights.
And I think something that goes along with that lack of access to basic human rights is especially in the more recent years has been the heat.
There isn't adequate air conditioning or anything like that in the prison, which especially in these summer months where you know some of us are suffering outside in our daily lives.
(07:58):
That's all right, because we can go back to a house where we have AC.
We have a place to cool down and recharge, but if you're incarcerated, they don't have these same spaces available to them.
And that's yeah, that's just crazy to me.
I definitely agree, especially since like like Michelle said before, because they're being held there and they can't leave simple things like a small cut where you can't cover it with a bandage can turn into a really bad infection.
(08:26):
And now you have severe medical issues without any care.
Yes, yeah, and especially when you know you're seeing reports of very unsanitary conditions within like the structure of the prison itself.
And bodily fluids on the wall will be as you know careful to say that as possible, but you know different fluids around cockroaches in the kitchens.
(08:53):
You know, how can you expect people to stay healthy when that is the conditions that they are being locked up in for most likely 23 hours of the day.
And it's crazy. So let's move on to mental health, you know, mental health has been something that has been on most people's minds, especially post pandemic when we all sort of had a reckoning of maybe being locked in our houses for quite a while is not so good for our mental health and realizing that these are sort of similar.
(09:30):
So I'm wondering if there is any changes or things to do with mental health within doffin county prison.
Well, I haven't seen anything personally. I haven't seen any steps taken to ensure that the mental health of those prisoners is being taken seriously.
(09:58):
I definitely believe what you had mentioned before they only have 23 hours that they're actually in the prison that they're supposed to be out for one hour.
But a lot of research and study show that at least four hours outside can improve your mental health.
I don't think that, you know, mental health and prisons is taken seriously though.
I have seen different prisons across the country take that into consideration and add better counseling.
(10:25):
I haven't seen that yet in doffy county. I'm hoping with commissioner Doug with that some steps and no happening with them.
And another thing that I've seen which maybe isn't something that we can fully get into in this episode.
But I've been researching some of the the deaths that have occurred in the prison system and the one of Tyreech Riley which had gained a lot of attention.
(10:54):
I think it was a year or two ago.
He had been in the midst of a medical emergency and a mental had some sort of mental health crisis involved with that.
And I don't think we were given all the details by the prison system, but there was definitely some sort of mental health struggle involved when he was detained.
(11:17):
And that ultimately led to injuries that he sustained that then led to him, unfortunately passing away in a hospital.
So I think these medical or these mental health issues are something that are so important to be addressed because they clearly have really horrible outcomes that they aren't addressed for certain prisoners.
(11:40):
And I think it also comes down to like a basic human right thing where we all deserve to like we said already feel safe and feel like we are in a good mental mental health space obviously being in a prison is not going to be the most fun time.
But it should definitely you shouldn't be or you should be given care when you are having a genuine mental health crisis.
(12:09):
I also think and I really believe that mental health when you're not taken care of yourself properly or people don't take care of you properly.
Your mental health can ultimately affect your physical health and being in a prison where you're not being treated well.
And it's really putting a strain on your mental health.
It doesn't help with your body on the day to day.
(12:32):
I also think that like mental health and mental health care is key to helping these people eventually reintegrate into their daily life outside of the prison when they're released.
And I think if there isn't that mental health care then if there isn't that attention then what's stopping them from you know falling back into the same patterns that that got them put in prison in the first place.
(12:59):
I think if you start integrating mental health care that kind of helps helps the problem at the root a little bit and then hopefully helps people have more.
There are a better livelihood when they're out of prison and have gives them more ways to cope with things that might have otherwise led them to a more dangerous or illegal path.
(13:25):
Yeah. I mean we've touched on so many different points within you know the prison system itself in dolphin county that need to be changed and reformed in order to sort of have a functioning prison within our county.
And I'm just wondering if you know for both of you why do you think it's taken so long for these issues to really come to light you know now we have this report coming out there's a lot of news and media attention and it looks like potentially there might be some changes but I'm wondering if you know maybe you have some ideas as to why it's taken so long.
(14:04):
I definitely have a couple ideas I think number one it's kind of the out of sight out of mind idea where people don't think about it because it has nothing to do with their daily lives.
But along with that people don't really see prisoners as people when they're in prison they feel because they've committed a crime they deserve whatever happens to them.
(14:26):
And I think that's easier to think about rather than experience because I know people who have thought about that and they end up in prison themselves and they're looking for prison reform.
So yeah but I do think those are the two main reasons people don't think about it because it has nothing to do with them and they don't feel that prisoners deserve to have a normal life and a healthy life.
(14:48):
Yeah I completely agree with CC I think it's it's really easy for people to pick up or to advocate for cause for say children or something where it's it's seen as a more worthy cause in prison reform because in prison reform you're advocating for people who have been deemed criminals.
So I think it's it's that kind of stigma around it that's hard for people to get past and I think also they really there's a lack of awareness for what these conditions actually are.
(15:20):
I mean I can even say myself didn't have much knowledge about prison reform until I started looking into it this summer.
And like CC said it is kind of like an out of sight out of mind thing unless you're hearing about it unless you're reading articles and hearing like firsthand testimonies of what an imagining what life is in a prison it's easy to just kind of ignore it and not really empathize.
(15:49):
So I think that's also like awareness is a big key issue with that.
Yeah and I'm sure money is also another thing which is such a shame that I guess any of these reforms are going to require some kind of investment you know maybe state funds I'm not sure exactly how our dolphin county prison system is funded.
(16:11):
But you know it's going to require a significant amount of money to do anything I know they were even saying about potentially building a whole new prison because this one is so old and decrepit that it might cost more to fix it.
Then just build a whole new one which you know obviously creates a whole new set of problems but I think you know we have in this episode at least covered some things that hopefully can be changed in the future.
(16:40):
And I do see a glimmer of hope and it seems like both of you do as well.
Yeah for sure I think just continued advocacy and informing our youth is really important on this on this topic and I definitely see that there's hopefully some change coming.
Well thank you Maddie thank you CC for joining me today to discuss reforms of dolphin county prison that we hope to come to fruition very very soon.
(17:10):
So we'll definitely keep an eye on that and we hope you all will join us next time when we will discuss further the reports from UCLA document that came out detailing suspicious deaths within dolphin county prison and sort of the ramifications of that.
Why all this has come to light so I hope you will join us next time thank you all for listening.
(17:34):
Next Gen PA is a podcast from the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg. For more information on the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg visit our website at wacheresburg.org.
(upbeat music)
[Music]
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