In Conversation with Mike O'Brien, Former PA-10th Congressional Candidate

In this episode, we sit down with Mike O'Brien, who was part of the packed Democratic primary vying to represent Pennsylvania's 10th Congressional District. With a background in the Marines, Mike shares his journey from serving his country to running for office, driven by a passion for public service and a commitment to addressing the challenges facing his community.

Join hosts Sam, Connor, and Mia as they dive into a wide range of critical topics with Mike, including mental health in the military and the importance of strong US alliances around the world.

The conversation doesn't stop there—Mike offers his insights on pressing issues like immigration reform and tax justice. This episode is packed with thought-provoking discussions that highlight Mike's vision for a more equitable and prosperous future.

To learn more about Mike O'Brien and his campaign, visit https://www.mikeobrienforpa.com/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[MUSIC]

(00:10):
>> Hello, and welcome to Next Gen P.A.
My name is Samuel Pimentel, and I'm joined by my co-host,
Connor Joyce from Getty's Brick College.
>> And me, a co-deniti from Hershey High School.
>> And today we have a very special guest,
Michael Bryan, who was a former candidate in the Democratic primary
for the Pennsylvania 10th congressional district,

(00:30):
which covers Harrisburg, York, Carlisle,
as well as a former service member.
And I just feel we are so lucky to have him here today.
And I really want to start off by having him talk.
I want to ask kind of about your background
and what got you into this life of public service
as you were a former military member,
and then running for Congress.
So what really got you into this?

(00:52):
>> Yeah, well, first thanks for having me, Sam.
I appreciate it, and I'm very excited to talk to you guys a little bit.
And pass along a lot of my experiences,
and hopefully you'll find it somewhat useful.
But so I'll start with the fact that when I was kind of in me issues
back in high school, as looking around for colleges,
just like everybody does, and had no idea what I wanted to do with my life.

(01:16):
But obviously I visited the Naval Academy in Annapolis,
and really didn't know what it was all about.
But for me, obviously at that point,
it's like I'm looking at academic opportunities,
and you combine that with an opportunity to serve your country.
And it's like, well, this sounds great.
My parents were super supportive.

(01:36):
So honestly, that's where the quote-unquote life of service all got to start.
However, it wasn't that's not a very sexy story.
But the reason why you stay there and why you stay
and continue to serve your country is very different
than the reason you originally join the service.
And so I'll say that, obviously, you guys know your life choices,

(01:59):
the college you go to, the experience you have really shapes you.
And so as soon as I started going to the Naval Academy,
we did a lot of activities during the summer with the enlisted Marines.
And there was a type of people that they don't sign up to join the Marine Corps
because they're going to get money towards college or anything like that.
They do it to challenge themselves, ultimately.

(02:20):
And so that's what drew me specifically into the Marine Corps upon graduation.
So I joined the Marine Corps, has graduated in 2003 from college, I know a long time ago.
But after that, I had already chosen the fact that I was going to be a pilot.
And really, that was a personality fitting.

(02:40):
It's like, ultimately, you'll discover that a lot of your jobs
and your future employment opportunities and your path kind of chooses itself
based upon your personality fit.
And so that's what happened for me.
So I spent about flying specifically probably about 15 years or so.
So flew F18 Hornets, which if you see in Top Gun, I'll break those in that movie.

(03:03):
And then flew F35s for about nine years from beginning of that program.
Those are stealth fighters.
Was a commanding officer of the unit.
We're just kind of like being a CEO.
And then I retired and immediately got into politics.
And so honestly, what drove me into the political world
and continuing that life of service is there was something that happened back at the height of my career in 2015.

(03:28):
Actually, I was a Marine fighter pilot, F35 pilot.
And my best friend, Taj, was flying Hornets over in Syria.
And this was right in the middle of the, they were trying to fight against ISIS,
essentially in both Iraq and Syria.
And on his way back home from the deployment, he flew into the clouds.
His navigation system flipped on him and unfortunately didn't recognize it.

(03:52):
And he flew into the ground and lost his life.
And Taj, to me, he was the type of person.
Like obviously I lost the best friend, but I felt like the world lost something because he was the type that
just bring people together from all walks of life, no matter what race, religion, political persuasion,
where you're from, didn't matter.
It was all about bringing people together.

(04:12):
And I remember standing there a couple months later, rereading the last line on his gravestone,
it says, "In service for mankind."
And so when I saw that, I said to myself that I want to live that same legacy of service and togetherness
and put myself where it's needed most.
And then 2016 happened and no matter what side you're on, the country started kind of coming apart at the seams

(04:35):
and to two different sides.
And where it was needed most, that fight for togetherness really was in political leadership.
So I kind of made a pledge to myself to go through an educational process and I know some of you are polyside majors.
I was not, I was an engineer, so I couldn't think like that.
So I actually read some books and caught up a little bit on that.

(04:58):
Took a few classes, went to a few seminars and then ultimately the sense of urgency increased
in the aftermath of the 2020 election.
I was in the Pentagon, I was serving in the Pentagon, so as my wife during the 2020 election and obviously the aftermath.
And then January 6 was a day that again, we saw five police officers killed 150 injured.

(05:25):
And after that day, I just couldn't stand on the sidelines anymore.
And I made a pledge that as soon as I could return from Marine Corps 20 years and get out
and try and make a difference that I would.
And so last summer I got to retire and like I said, launched my campaign five days later and ultimately put quite a bit into that over the span of eight to nine months learned a lot.

(05:47):
There were six six candidates in the in the primary finished second and for first time candidate and just really moving back to Pennsylvania for the first time in 24 years.
I'm pretty happy with that and felt like although we didn't come out on top that that we really kind of accomplished what I wanted to which was bring people together.

(06:10):
And ultimately build a coalition that I think still exists and is going to exist in the future to kind of help fight against wood.
I saw a way back in 2016.
So that's where I'm at right now and and hopefully that that gives you a little bit of insight in terms of why I serve and kind of my outlook on service itself.

(06:32):
I am curious. I mean, there's a lot of different districts in Pennsylvania.
A lot more friendly ones for a Democrat. So I'm curious what brought you to central Pennsylvania specifically.
Yeah, well, all sort by saying that I grew up right outside of Philadelphia in Montgomery County and my wife grew up right around here in Adams County.

(06:54):
And so I live currently in Cumberland. So right up the street from Adams. So it's really perfectly situated in the middle of the two are two sets of parents.
So we have two young kids and we finally have a built in babysitter for them.
Obviously this area is great schools. Beautiful area.
And so we were always going to come back to Pennsylvania. It was just matter of where.

(07:15):
And then when I was looking at the political landscape of where it makes sense to go and where we could actually make a difference.
Like the Philadelphia area obviously is great and all that's where I was born.
But like that's you know that that's headed in the right direction already.
There's a there's a fight to be had here.
And that really interests me in terms of not only being a challenge, but I'll tell you one of the things I discovered on the campaign is like the greater Harrisburg area.

(07:43):
Like this is where you know one person can really make a difference because this feels this is not this is not your your major US city.
This is you know the middle of South Central PA ultimately where there's smaller towns.
But but what that means is it's more intimate and you get you build tighter relationships.
I think and one person and one group of people can make more of a difference here.

(08:08):
So again, this is one of those cases where you make a decision for one reason and then while you are kind of immersed in that you kind of your mindset changes and develops as you learn more and you move along.
So if okay, I would like to ask a question here Sam. First off, thank you for your service.
But I would also like as a my grandfather started in the Navy, he loaded the bombers in Vietnam.

(08:33):
So I'm really curious to hear all about the stories, but tell us about your call sign about how that story came about.
And before we really get into the weeds, all this positive, which is really important, but I'd love to hear more about.
No good question.
I can only go so far and telling you the details, but my call sign is snooki and if you've seen Jersey Shore, that's exactly where it's from.

(08:55):
So right during the time when you get your call sign assigned, which for me, that was like right around 2009.
That's when Jersey Shore just started to come up on the air.
So I was of course super excited about it because if you've been to the Jersey Shore, which I'm assuming most of not all of you have, you know that like that's actually help people.
Act.

(09:16):
This is pretty damn accurate.
So so I used to have a quote unquote GTL parties,
"Gentanting laundry is what that stands for. That's a big theme of the show."
So we'd go out with my friends and like do all of the above.
But ultimately what happened in one of the recent episodes before I got named, snooki, who's the little time girl.

(09:40):
She went to a bar and got in a bar fight and got punched in the face. So of course like I'm a new guy and they can't give me a new cool call sign like the situation or anything who like you know had amazing abs whatever.
So instead it was the girl who got punched in the face in the bar. They wanted to give me that.

(10:00):
So again, it's personality based is what I'll say and I'll kind of leave that that.
So with all your experience that you brought in from being in the Marine Corps and all the the tales that you just told us about service.
You are away from Pennsylvania for you know around 20 years right so having all this experience that you brought with you then be brought it back to the commonwealth.

(10:22):
How do you find things of change? It was a different region from where you were born, where you grew up.
How do you find things of change and how could you bring in new experiences to this community to help make it better when you were running.
Yeah and I think I know you guys have said a lot of you have traveled abroad or want to travel abroad.
I think one of the really valuable things for for myself and my wife again also Pennsylvania was to get brought up here with some certain specific Pennsylvania values which which again I talked about this on the campaign trail.

(10:53):
But I'll boil down to kind of saying what you mean and doing what you say those are the kind of two biggest things that I learned.
That I took me with me to the Marine Corps and so did she and turns out if you do those things you can you can generate a lot of trust and have a lot of success in the world elsewhere.

(11:14):
It was cool to go to to apply that across the US and ultimately across the globe and also give you kind of a fresh perspective on America itself and specifically Pennsylvania.
And you learn that there are some things that you know if if I stayed in Pennsylvania I probably would have taken for granted.

(11:35):
But because I you know saw through world countries like Fawn Wars it made me more appreciative of what we have here and the close-knit community the families that we have the togetherness that we already have here and that's something that I don't think we celebrate enough here as Pennsylvanians.

(11:56):
And we need to realize what we have and it does help to get out and go see somewhere else go live in California go nothing to not take anything away from California or Texas where I also lived but but we have a unique level of diversity as well that when you put this all together.
The experience that Pennsylvania's have can really put us on the right path to success in the larger America and in the world at large as well if we apply that.

(12:29):
I have two questions the first ones more about domestic policy the second is about international but for the first one are there any specific veterans issues that you would want to bring up or bring to the table for example like the high levels of homelessness mental health financial stability etc.
Yeah I'll say mental health is a big one and that's I mentioned earlier that I was a commanding officer unit where you're basically like a CEO but my unit had 200 Marines my wife's unit she was also commanding ostrich had 400 Marines and but would kept us up at night wasn't war fighting necessarily or yeah we need to get our squadrons ready to fight to deploy etc but it was honestly the mental health of our Marines.

(13:12):
Because that was the difference between really having a successful unit whether it was a small unit or the unit at large the full squadron it was it was things like morale is it was mental readiness who's family ready to this and that all comes back to kind of mental health and how you handle some of the challenges especially in an environment where you're not home all the time you know and there there are domestic issues that

(13:40):
that occur in the background that that you have to deal with and I'll tell you I had a number of incidents and some I won't go into details but near suicides my wife unfortunately and I've had squadrons where I there have been suicides as well and that just

(14:01):
tears unit apart let alone obviously what it does for the friends and family of the individual that that has committed suicide and that's something that if we talk about it more openly and reduce the stigma associated with it I think we can make a real
death and we have seen improvement as well say within the military related to veterans suicide especially because we we are doing exactly that we're talking about it a lot more and that's having a positive effect on ultimately readiness and success that's great to hear that it's getting better but I I understand that's incredibly hard that's a constant trend.

(14:43):
But my second question and this is more about your experience in Japan with the end being like a historic low and your military experience that you mentioned do you have any specific opinions or how the US should help or address the struggling ally if at all the economic aspect of this is that question is there are a lot of I'd say inputs and variables that go into that of course but I'll say big picture if for after living in Japan for two and a half years.

(15:12):
I do see them as one of these staunch as allies we are extremely different from a cultural perspective but we have very similar goals and values and one of those values is honestly hard work and honesty and like that is that is something that's important to me personally but but in terms of where the cultural

(15:33):
alignment actually is between us now geopolitically we of course have alignment when it comes to the end of Pacific and who are allies and adversaries are over there when you look at China and North Korea I'll tell you when our station in Japan that was 2017 at 2019 so that was right when Kim Jong-un was launching missiles over Japan itself and there was quite a bit of concern about that.

(15:57):
And obviously China itself tries to economically influence countries Japan just being one of the many I would also say we do as well.
I'll admit that but I think in terms of keeping our friends close we need to continue to do that and we saw kind of what happened during the 2017-2020 those years where we are

(16:26):
friends we weren't continuing to build those relationships and I think the Biden administration was done a great job of trying to rebuild them and the difference between winning and losing or preventing a war due to deterrence and not preventing a war is really our network of relationships now as an partner so that's one of the things that I've learned
over the course of my career again Japan being one of them Australia being another but when I took over my squadron I put up a big chart in front of my Marines and one of them on one side it showed China and their allies and partners you can imagine who they are and on the other side I showed us with NATO with the quad with August like Australia US UK

(17:12):
and you can see like that is where our strength really comes from is the strength of our relationship so that means we help out a friend in need we do need to do that when it comes to Japan balance with domestic priorities as well as what I was going to super political answer I gave right right in the middle but yes the Japan US relationship I do believe is an absolute thing I want to ask you about is I know two things that it sounds like

(17:41):
it sounds like a pretty big to you is healing a divide and of course the mental health of citizens as well as veterans you mentioned a lot about previously bipartisanship and working together and it's well known that both Democrats or Republicans do see the issues of gun violence mental health things like that however not a lot unfortunately has been done so what would you see in sort of a bipartisan way types of solutions that

(18:10):
both parties could come to agree to to try and get more care out there yeah and are you specifically referring to gun violence itself or crime so I mean they're related but they're looked at differently by both parties I was thinking more I guess of the psychological aspects that would lead someone to crime like that yes and what I had always used to say is that the root cause of crime is poverty ultimately and that's what we need to do is

(18:39):
take a look at like you need to have an immediate response to crime so in terms of your properly sized police force the to keep keep the seats keep the streets safe but I also do believe that we need to fight hard against that root cause so you have to look at what those root causes of poverty hard so it's this kind of like vicious cycles like what actually is how can we actually make a difference my personal take on this it's kind of the inner

(19:08):
generational transfer of wealth the disparities along those lines that have really got and disparities in education which has gotten us to this point where we stand from a poverty perspective and thus crime perspective so I would say the
bipartisanship involved there I think you know everybody wants Americans to succeed we want to have strong families we want to have strong communities and you look for those areas of overlap and so what does that mean that puts that means putting some funding into community based organizations and pushing that down so that you can build community and you can lift each other up nobody wants to see somebody else struggle so it's about

(19:54):
I think taking those issues from the national level and kind of pushing the debt down to the local because you'll find that politics are a lot less divided at the kind of local level or you at least have better opinions better higher levels of trust in your local politicians regardless of party to that that the
the partisanship issue like said that scene kind of more on the national stage that's how one way to combat that is push things down further where there is less polarization and let that let them make the call on what's best for their

(20:26):
community to build that up that makes sense yeah that that makes sense and you actually brought up something which considering the youth podcast is pretty important to all of us and that's education I'm curious as now being a father what steps you would want to see in a better
public education system for your kids as well as easier access to college yeah yeah and I think here in Pennsylvania there's been quite quite a bit of discussion related to

(20:54):
education like you things like public school versus private versus school vouchers etc I think what is important is fairness across the board the fair funding formulas making sure that the no one school gets an advantage because of who lives within that district you know and making sure that that
that money is spread I would also say there needs to be kind of a follow up on the use of that money though that we need to look at using that money for people and when I say people what we this is all circular because one of the biggest issues that I hear about today within schools is kind of

(21:33):
again mental health and so how many mental health counselors or guidance counselors do you typically have one or two is kind of what I'm hearing from the schools or one or two per the amount of population that there
should that should be there but that's one of the areas where I think we need more support professionals within the educational space and again go and beyond just mental health but also physical health I know that

(21:59):
York City schools actually talk with them that they do a good job there's there's actual health care facilities really they're not only for the kids but for the parents so everything it's a concept of community schools that like everything is kind of in one place making the school the center of community the center
of care and equipping it with the people and the resources to be just that I think that's that's a direction that we should move that that makes a big difference and

(22:28):
yeah lastly I'll say I again live in live in Cumberland County right now Cumberland Valley school district my kids are going into fifth and third grade so schools are at the very top of my mind as a parent right now there's a lot of cultural
discussion that go on within the school board to and unfortunately the school board has become kind of the political hotbed and that's something that I personally care about and like I say I ran for Congress and but looking

(23:00):
forward we already are like my campaign by team is already looking forward to how can we impact kind of the way ahead as it relates to school board races too and so that's important important to to pitch in on and to keep track of
you mentioned both domestic and international issues so there's a lot to cover there but I have two questions in my first question is it's a domestic issue being that we're from this district through my island is it is a really big thing for energy and there's talk of restarting it what is your

(23:33):
opinions on restarting it how are we going to deal with waste that would come out of through my island if we did restart it like what is your thought with your mind island.
So I am a fan of nuclear energy is what I'll start with that I think we do need to look at safe methods to generate more energy and so specifically small modular reactors is something that I would take a look at which are much smaller scale than three mile island itself that has been used to success that elsewhere across the country.

(24:03):
I know over towards Pittsburgh specifically looking into this because if we're going to get through the energy transition ultimately we're going to need to have multiple choices multiple options and combinations that kind of change gradually over the course of time so nuclear being again one of the really cheapest and safest options out there.

(24:25):
I get spooked by a lot of things with nuclear energy and rightly so it's like the Fukushima disaster like I was in my medical records I literally have the fact that I've been radiated in my medical records from Fukushima because I was off the coast flannel the coast that that night and we went to help out so obviously there are chances for disasters like that to occur.

(24:49):
And I think the modularity of the small modular reactors piece that is going to help make that a little bit safer and we need to look at additional protections on how to kind of prevent incidents like that but ultimately I think we're on the right path.
The other other energy sources obviously wind and solar is great it's it's it's easy natural gas natural gas is an interesting one I know it's a controversial one here domestically but I do think it's probably required in the near term in order to get to where we want to want to go with the with the energy transition especially with the the abundance of it here in Pennsylvania.

(25:30):
So it's just phasing out of brown energy is kind of a priority of course but the only way to do that is to have a clear gradual plan that involves many different options as we make that move.
I like the way you phrase the answer the near term general like gradually my question is about the upcoming election and how do you are you planning to help get young voters out because I hate to say it but a lot of my class at least my classmate.

(25:59):
Or kind of disconnected from it we have a large youth and government program but generally in our district it's kind of.
I want to say stagnant I think people are still stuck on the Trump Biden race and it's they haven't really had their mindset converted that there's a new there's a new candidate for the democratic party.

(26:22):
Yeah good question and you should help answer that too but what I always said is that we we in all the like democratic groups group meetings that I would go to like your age and your demographics were always very similar like there were very few young people involved in that.

(26:43):
I when I was commanding officer like most of my Marines were like nine 18 to 22 ultimately and like there's a lot of talk about what generation does what now they respond to things as well say is like younger generations I'm going to include myself as a millennial barely 1981 but we.

(27:07):
I like to be involved in kind of decision making processes and like to have ourselves heard and I don't think that was necessarily the case previous to that and so.
So what I would love to see is kind of leadership roles in some of these local organizations that are typically filled with those you know certain generally older demographic be filled kind of by by younger people you know even if it's just the.

(27:35):
You know the three of you who are on here who actually can but you guys should have the leadership positions in some of these organizations and because you know best how to appeal to your peers and what works there it's obviously we I got talked to at various levels about like how to work social media right get on tick talk that's where everybody's at like whatever it is we do need to move in that direction but we also just again I think need to give young people.

(28:04):
More leadership roles in general and not just discount their opinions and their voice because of their age which that is really kind of the route of I think why we are where we are right now so do you want to lead the hampton.
You're not there for no that's what I that's what that's what I see and that's what see really.

(28:30):
I was afraid for the thinking of.
Great thank you.
Since you did run in central Pennsylvania what things that maybe are like silent issues did you hear about because I mean on the news you're always hearing about top the ticket issues abortion is real etc but maybe what are some issues that you heard.

(28:51):
A lot about here that you're just not seeing on the news anywhere and maybe we need to discuss more was really opening for me and you hear a little bit about it on the news but when I would walk into a room I could do in some door knocking.
And walk up on a house that's kind of deteriorating that somebody's obviously renting and people that are kind of sitting around that is very clear that it's hard for them to meet ends meet and it's it's something that being in the military I almost feel feel guilty in a way that like.

(29:31):
Life wasn't that hard aside from going and fighting in a war like that aspect of it yes and having my friends pass away yes that's that's difficult but like the day to day daily life.
The ability to not have to work paycheck to paycheck that's something I think that we all take for granted sometimes that we have to realize that there's a lot of people that that don't live like that that need help.

(29:54):
And that you can we can help as long as we have the alignment of really government and communities and that's what we don't have right now locally is obviously when there's people within different parties they're not going to all agree but I'd say that there's some obstructionists here locally which is again why I would ran in the first place against Scott Perry not to make this too political but.

(30:23):
The local local alignment it we're ready to do that we're ready to kind of turn sell central PA blue but even if that was a Republican house willing to like work together with kind of a bipartisan mindset like more than willing to have done that and I think like that's what we need is people that recognize that not everybody.

(30:45):
Not everybody has the luxury of not having to live paycheck and projects a lot of double negatives in there but but you guys you guys understand kind of what i'm saying is the economics is individual family economics is difficult.
I do kind of want to ask you in a way going back to education and how expensive it is for families to say move out of poverty.

(31:09):
Do you think that we should now be pivoting in high school more encouraging kids to check out the trades and craftsmanship things of that nature because I do feel a lot of these type of jobs would help.
Build well to bring families out of that poverty circle so I just want your take on that.
Yeah absolutely and I was able to visit quite a few unions and not only union holes but also apprenticeship centers and so that's exactly what you're referring to is there opportunities that are out there.

(31:42):
I went to the carpenter's actually talked to some people there electrical workers as well where they take kids that are in still in high school and or just out and there's like a four year apprenticeship program where after there's four years you're not searching for a job you've had a job the whole time you're kind of a crewing time you're making some money and you're getting an education all simultaneously and at the backside of that you can buy a house.

(32:08):
You don't need to earn more money to buy a house for more years it's like you're already there and so that is a kind of huge advantage of some of those programs where I think we just need to also talk about other opportunities other than going to college of how to kind of make a family standing wage is there there are other options out there and to celebrate those options.

(32:32):
So I think we're doing a good job of talking about it and we got to continue to move it in that direction I know this administration has really supported those apprenticeship opportunities too so so we'll hopefully be able to continue to do that but that's a really good point.
I'm going to piggyback off a same really quick about the underrated sort of issues Chevron DeVrance had been overturned recently and after over 50 years of it being enacted how do you think that it will affect veterans in the justice system.

(33:07):
Yeah I think we've seen the one of the books I read leading up to my political career was called death of expertise because everybody thinks they're an expert about everything these days because the internet's right there are fingertips but I think that there's an incredible value in still acknowledging what expertise based upon experience base expertise especially exists like anybody can read anything I can generate whatever I can generate but it's those people with with experience.

(33:36):
That should be in the room whenever tough decisions are made so I need to look at the case in a little bit more detail to give a more educated answer but that's that's kind of where a big picture wise where I stand on that topic in terms of where we are as a society and kind of like where we where we need to give difference.

(33:57):
Great thank you so I'd like to take us internationally again.
One of the things this I'm a historian study history as a minor right like it's very interesting to me but this day in history fat man was dropped on Nagasaki for our atomic bombs and what we're to the world is coming together as we talk about local issues but global issues.

(34:18):
We the world's coming together in different ways that are sometimes even frightening you think about new accesses warming together with Korean Russia defensive packs in the Pacific things of that nature.
What do you think more of our allies should be doing do you think like the quad should be doing in the Pacific to prevent a an outbreak of potentially a war between different alliances within the region I know that Germany and the Philippines are helping each other out now it's just more alliances with more tension and what do you see in the Pacific preparedly happening with all this.

(34:53):
Yes all I'll first start by saying thanks for bringing up Nagasaki the base that I lived at is called you a CUNY is close closer to Hiroshima so I've actually visited the atomic bomb museum up there in the Hiroshima and actually on the other side of it where both bombs were launched from originally tinny and the island of tinion I've actually visited those sites as well.

(35:19):
So got a good feel for kind of the tensions over the course of many many decades into Pacific and I'll say that the what we see right now there's a lot of tension that's building right in that area where tinion I mean tinion second island chain but first island chain that self China see a lot of tension building based on the reclaiming of land that China has done over the years.

(35:46):
I'll say the way to fight against that or to prevent a war is a network of again alliances and interdependencies alliances on the friendly side but I think interdependencies on between adversaries is what I'll say so have things that that depend on the relationship between us and China to to get to success and have that the

(36:13):
priority of the world stage and one of those things that we talked about offline was the kind of climate right so if we're ever going to get to a point of success in the climate world in terms of with climate change.
So we're doing a lot of things reducing coal plants what have you it's you we need to be on the same page with China on that issue now I think the downfall that is the role is driven by economics.

(36:43):
Economics itself is downstream geopolitical competition so this all comes back to kind of what drives nation states right what drives them to make decisions what drives them to get a worse and I'm sorry from getting a little too academic for you now but again that is kind of my recent recent back on it and I think it is about power so as for for many years like the America's at the top and now you have competition there

(37:11):
and at some point we need to invite them into the fold and make joint decisions again get to the point where they're inter interdependencies when you look at when you look at like Ukraine and then and Europe.
You know the more allies and kind of interdependencies we can build up the more effect it's going to have in terms of as a unifying force so we need to kind of continue to get there all hit on that again just with Russia like in the 90s when the Berlin wall came down I don't think we tried to certain extent to incorporate Russia into the international system and it just never got there and I think that's one of the reasons why we are where we are today.

(37:55):
So we can let that happen in the Pacific ultimately I think we're on the path to like have been to an extent but we need to kind of reinvigorate some of these conversations and going back to where we started with this conversation in nuclear arms treaties right now it's it's Russia in the US that are even involved in those conversations but it's of course increasingly important to involve China there as well so.

(38:20):
A lot of places where I can go with this answer but that that's kind of like my biggest picture overview is it alliances and interdependencies you talked about economics and climate and all interdependencies yes we talked about climate one thing's a pop into my mind was the polar ice cap melting and one of the things that those economics is it provides new trade wraps to go across if that were to continue to melt to the extent that we could go across it and trade more easily.

(38:49):
Do you think that that region being you know maritime in your nature and their own forces that this region is really pivotal for a cooperation between either you know friendly info different ideology nations to come together and work cooperatively as opposed to being at more of a competitive space.

(39:10):
That would be ideal as a cooperative space but right now it's not bad you've had kind of trying to join the organization that that don't know the name of the world top my head but but works through kind of issues within the Arctic and like they're kind of joining joining forces in that sense so I think that they're looking at it as not only economic competitive space but military competitive space well it opens up new routes of attack to so.

(39:39):
So it's something that we have to keep an eye on and kind of work to make it that way to make it more more.
Competitive and conflict based competition and conflict based like how do we do that so that's a that's where we're at because we're going to continue to see the melting of the ice cap so it's not going to stop anytime soon it's about what do we do with this where do we go with it you know so yeah it's unfortunately heading in the direction that I don't see as productive.

(40:08):
I'm curious in kind of relation to climate change and international relations is you're seeing now a lot of climate refugees coming from hotter areas which are just getting impossible to live in and I'm wondering specifically related to that Asian specific area what do you think the dynamics could be if you keep seeing larger amounts of people from this area of migrating over towards America.

(40:36):
So I think the real issue with kind of population migration is population pressures that are puts on other countries which are obviously stresses their government stresses their resources so we see a lot of that in Africa for sure is where that is a real issue I think in the Indo Pacific look at a rising sea floor that of course affects some of those flat islands that are out there that I visited myself but

(41:05):
also plenty of other issues there but it's ultimately the migration of the population which is not organic and when you have so someone show up at your door and they're not quote unquote from here.
I'm speaking of South Central P.A. you're going to treat them a little bit differently at first again whether it is South Central P.A. or it's a you know a nation state overseas and that's something where we need to have strong kind of international laws between two for the support of refugees but that's where you'll see these stresses come into play and people being used as kind of pawns in the world.

(41:46):
And that's the cause in some of these games and that's in specifically we saw this you know in the Middle East in Eastern Europe and that doesn't in my opinion value human life itself and that's what what should be our focus is protecting that as Americans and with our kind of strong ideology and strong value structure so something to look out to and to support is the support of these

(42:15):
refugees as you follow.
With immigration in mind there are large portions of the country we have different ideas on how we should deal with immigration but with the lens of solving things like social security something that's supposed to potentially go just completely bankrupt in the next 15 years potentially.
With people with the aging population as we have such Pennsylvania as well as a lot across the across the nation should we be instead of potentially making more border policies that close down the border should we be looking to bring an influx of people in to help solve issues like social programs or what is your take on that.

(42:53):
My take is we need to have a functioning immigration system in the first place which we don't.
There are a lot of great ideas that are out there for for for I would say like I don't want to use the term to use incorporating immigrants into our economy whether it's like you know we do need some help from an employment standpoint within within

(43:24):
unions with in certain specific trades but I think first and foremost is we need to make sure that we have our hands around and control the inflow and outflow really it's in flow of course of people into the country so I see have seen personally that the huge problems we have in the asylum system system mentioned I think offline about how we're able to rescue a family from Afghanistan during the fall of Kabul.

(43:51):
And the only reason why that was even necessary was because of the build up in our in our asylum asylum system and we've seen that cost lives in terms of other other other immigrants from Afghanistan that we were not able to save is because kind of time ran out you know and that's something that you put proper staffing and proper funding to improper

(44:17):
organization to and so once we get that under control then we can have kind of a further discussion about how to kind of get incorporate immigrants into our economy more effectively and there are definitely ways to do that.
Yeah, like the thing a little deeper into that a little bit so one of the common things is people think all the executive branch they the executive orders failed but reason that we have executive orders is because Congress has not passed effective water legislation for decades.

(44:42):
So it's really congressional show and being a candidate for Congress at one point and potentially participating further in government what specifically would you have in mind for a policy standpoint to help fix this.
Yes, the border deal was on the table and before Trump took it off the table that's really what I mean the Senate really sat down to dig into this and to create first board policy and decades and in a bipartisan fashion and they got there and there were some tradeoffs tradeoffs made between the

(45:11):
parties and so that was an effective first step that again got taken off the table because of the current Republican candidate so I think moving forward maybe we re reinvigorate that effort.
As soon as hopefully there's a Harris administration would be my desire of course but it's really a matter of.

(45:35):
That was a political matter that was a matter of self trying to solve the problem so I think we're there is what I'm saying we're in a good spot in terms of an agreement on how to solve this problem it's just a matter of simply politely pushing the bill through hopefully soon to come.
I'm so glad we're on this topic so people have made people a certain group have made many allegations saying that these immigrants are taking our jobs taking American jobs.

(46:03):
And they are already working and are trying like you said the asylum process and the legalization process of a US immigrant takes a very very long time and is can very backed up so what would you say can be done to sort of protect these people who aren't yet.

(46:28):
Legal or have legal citizenship or not even citizenship but just a legal visa maybe or working visa until they get that while they're in the process.
There needs to be first of all but kind of better accountability and support on an individual basis for those that are in that scenario so we see where they are what they're doing meaning making sure that they get the support that they need ultimately or that they are paying into whatever kind of tax system that we kind of.

(46:57):
Make up that's appropriate for this I'll say they are paying taxes now is like when you go to the store and you buy clothes or buy some food depending on what state you're in you are paying taxes you know if they're legally working then there are taxes that are paid to the government there as well.
Employee wise in addition to to individually so there are some level of taxes it depends again state to state in terms of how that goes down so they're unemployment as we see like historically speaking is near and all time low right so.

(47:36):
We're doing pretty well like if people are looking for jobs they're finding jobs what is an issue though is when you have a job is are you making families to see the wage and that is one of those issues I talked about earlier but the.
How immigration plays into that is when immigrants are paid under the table and not brought into the economy and not officially above the board that then lowers the price because it lowers the cost labor for for those employers that are that are are paying that the cheap labor and so we need to bring them into the economy have them pay taxes you know bring them into unions and like that's how you're going to raise everybody's wages as well so I think that's what we need to do.

(48:20):
And make sure that there's not a lot of kind of underground under the table payment as well say when it comes to immigrants.
So you talked about just payments and economics when it comes to that well looking at the national debt the US government has itself estimated the Treasury Department that by the year 2034 that our national debt would be equivalent to 122% of our gross domestic income which is just insane because it's the other way around the disposed to be.

(48:49):
Which would be around around 50.7 trillion dollars just ballparking it yeah there are different things we can do to solve this you can do different taxes and whatnot but what would your solution be if you had to kind of make you know ballpark solution there's a whole lot of entities that go into this there's no way we could solve it in this this podcast session but what would your ballpark bar park idea B to to solve the national debt that's ballooning right now.

(49:15):
Yeah big picture making people pay taxes people and corporations specifically because that's how we got that's how we got here is the giant tax Trump tax cuts from 2017 that gave corporations I forget the numbers off the top of my head the top of my head is telling me it took it from 35% to 21% but I'll have to check that later but that's a giant drop off in terms of corporate tax rate.

(49:40):
And then and then in terms of the tax loopholes that exist for the wealthy that then enables the the the Trump population that could contribute most to fighting against the deficit to they don't they don't have to because there are so many loopholes and doing things like defunding the IRS that doesn't help that doesn't help the matter in terms of when there are audits that need to be conducted on some of these wealthy individuals paying full rate of taxes like that's it doesn't happen.

(50:09):
So that's my starting point is like yeah you can reduce programs all day long but if you never kind of pay in pay into these programs it's like you're of course going to build up debt so I would look at corporate tax rate and obviously making the wealthy pay their fair share.

(50:30):
So it's lashing programs reminds me of the project 2025 which is something that's being counted you know a nozzium in places especially in Pennsylvania where we get the ad dumps like crazy so with that being said tell us about your your perspectives on project 2025 your particular dislikes or potential likes but I'm assuming it's mostly dislikes just tell us what you think about it.

(50:54):
Yeah I think the all summer project 2025 is is looking for ways to take America backwards in time whether it's you know things like women's rape doctor rights or healthcare or or the electoral system itself it's like we've already heard Trump come out and say that you know if he wins a presidency there's not going to be need for elections in the future.

(51:22):
That he's going to rig them appropriately you know so it's it's all designed to enable him to do that to do all the little things to align the stars such that we turn further and further away from an American democracy and you know more towards a liberalism that I think the right to try the far right as well say tries to hold up when you look at you know we Victor or bond that's their that's our idol right.

(51:51):
And you'll rule near dictator or there you know a lot of your food Trump just praise him the other day so there that's what project 25 2025 is designed to do is to get towards an America that I don't think will recognize.
So in the sad day if I came to fruition you would kind of a little bit before talked about corporate tax cuts and hopefully taxing the rich more however I do want to get your opinion on the first.

(52:20):
The fact of matter is many rich people such as Elon Musk.
Make probably about 120,000 actual salary but they have a bunch of money in bonds and stocks yeah so what would be your opinion on trying to make sure that somebody with a multi hundred million dollar network can get taxed on their investments how would a government go about doing that.

(52:46):
Yeah you probably heard me say this on the campaign trail a few times but it's a taxing wealth not work like what do we value as Americans most as we value work and work ethic but that's what we tax the most as opposed to things like I mentioned earlier the intergenerational transfer wealth which is the state tax.
Things that you're all into right now which is taxing capital gains you know there are different ways to do this there's value added taxes that we can incorporate on specific luxury goods that only Elon Musk and buy.

(53:15):
You know so there are lots of ways to to look into taxing wealth a little bit more as opposed to income and that I think that's where we need to go ultimately if we did that you get to a point where you middle class maybe wouldn't even have to have an income tax if we change the tax structure a little bit in that direction to tax wealth.

(53:38):
So I'm assuming you heard me say that on the campaign trail sound you know this is starting to sound familiar this is starting to sound familiar and you bring up Elon Musk so I'm going to use this as an opportunity to talk about electric cars and the problem is right now we're having is a lot of power shutting down and we don't have enough to replace it right the PJM is putting out warnings about a power deficit in the next 10 20 years.

(54:05):
And I'm curious how do you think we're going to solve this power deficit especially if now we're moving towards electric cars in 10 years I mean how are we going to have a healthy balance of energy for people yes.
So like what I said before in terms of a gradual energy transition is is what we're going to need and so when you look at electric cars and make up the the various not different vehicles.

(54:30):
Drive types is what I'll say I don't know what the proper term for that is it's obviously we need to subsidize what we can and we get there from green energy energy transition and with electric cars of cells we're kind of running into a chicken and a conversation where you need to have infrastructure in order to handle that from a charging station perspective etc.

(54:53):
So we need to look at that balance that with with obviously the gas motor cars ultimately and do both and there needs to be kind of a meter where you kind of turn that meter a little bit more when we can when infrastructure exists there and I kind of and that's how we need to move forward of course in the next decade and the same with the energy transition overall up that.

(55:17):
The electric car discussion needs to reflect where we're at overall with the energy discussion and our two capabilities meaning live within our capacity don't force people to pay extra money for the for us moving forward if you're going to do that you need to subsidize it in a way so so yeah we that's a big problem that honestly in the early 2000s with the transition in the economy from manufacturing

(55:46):
more service based economy that's where you miss the boat a little bit where we didn't do the retraining we said we were going to do you know and we didn't make those and and too much burden was placed on the middle class to make that transition on the run and that's all we got us.
It's very away from here within the energy transition as we move forward so you mentioned Elon Musk and infrastructure in the same sentence area so my brain went towards quite literally out of this world to space one of the bigger space infrastructure issues that I've CS have is that.

(56:21):
We're very vulnerable a lot of our satellites are communication links they're very essential to quite literally everything we do from GPS to economics to everything from military communication.
But one of our weaknesses is that we have adversaries up there that are actively trying like rush to put weapons in space or trying to who already has things like electronic arms that are in space to try and dismantle our satellites are not the amount of war but.

(56:45):
What measures should Congress for the executive be taking in this somewhat on talk about issue I don't think it's on talking about it's on talk about at this level.
So I'll say that I mentioned to you guys I mentioned now like who I work for now is a defense starting essentially join manufacturer that's fairly dependent on satellite communications and the effective operations of GPS so everything involving space offensive defensive cyber warfare is all held at highly classified levels so what is going to make a difference here is continual funding and progress.

(57:22):
Made in terms of the space force and I know we all laugh at that myself included as a marine but I will tell you as a former planner for strategic planner which basically means you build more plans or plans to deter war and with the specific focus on China is like what worries them is what's up in space and what's below the water right so some reason specifically but it's really important.

(57:51):
Everything that that that's up in space so that is a it's a topic that does get quite a bit of attention in technical spaces and in defense spaces so.
I don't think that that probably a conger nerves but it is being thought of and I think we can continue funding their attention from the money perspective is going to make a pretty big difference.

(58:22):
Sticking with space for just one more second here one of the bigger issues in space is also space junk space debris just kind of floating up there we've polluted it much like climate change and all the wonderful things we talk about with how bad we messed up the planet.
We do the same thing as space really like we send stuff up there with no hope of it being recovered and everything and there are things the size of a school bus or the size of a nail that could really just damage satellites damage spaces everything that we do is vital important.

(58:48):
And this is not only just an American issue or a Chinese issue or a Russian issue this is an everyone issue so is do you see some sort of broad scheme broad plan that all nations can come together and attempt to clean up space so we can actually like use it for our advantage.
Yeah I mean I think you have to have a use case for that to where like we are concerned about it by because we're concerned about space junk what are going into satellites like that's that's an issue I think you have to prove the cost benefit analysis for that there but if that is an issue then I think that most most countries would have read it if there's a capacity to remove items like that from space then.

(59:27):
We should be doing that I haven't seen that solution is what I'll say in just the the little bit of of looking to that world that I've had from the do you know the why so it's an interesting interesting point and discussion that.
All to keep my ear out for that get you better answer.
Alright so the election is coming up obviously and I was wondering what you thought about Scott Perry he is we his reputation has I think been pretty widespread across the district I mean he was a key contributor in the January 6th insurrection how do you think that will affect him in this election and do you think that the Democrats have a better chance to stay.

(01:00:12):
Yeah I think he can't hide anymore in previous elections he was either before January 6th or you know not as much as come come out as it has recently with like the revelations the revelations are his.
Self on records and the communications where it show that he was directly involved in January 6th so that is something new that's coming out and then he most recently has been the chair the freedom caucus so you really can't hide in that role of the freedom caucus is sure most you know the far right group the furthest right group in Congress that it's really an obstructionist organization.

(01:00:55):
So he can't hide anymore and I'd also say the the South Central PA like we are turning where we're growing in population this is one of the fastest going areas of the state and we're also growing blue to an extent so it's a work the the tide is changing to really again where his policies.

(01:01:17):
Modern Republicans aren't really a fan of that either you know they don't want to associate being a Republican with some of the stuff that comes out Scott Perry and the freedom caucus and the.
Kind of adherence to the Trumpist ideology which is you know again about moving away from American democracy in itself so I think that will motivate people to come to polls ultimately though an international election with a national election year with the presidency up it's a lot of this is going to be driven.

(01:01:46):
By turnout for for the president for the presidential race and so we'll see that impact but i think we're going to good spot there's a lot of energy behind the hurts.
House walls ticket and we'll see see what happens on November 5th but should be exciting and I think that.
Boots well for genels stelson who is who beat me in the primary but is now Scott Perry's.

(01:02:13):
Scott Perry's of home in there.
That's a fun topic how do you feel about walls and you just random opinions you'd like to share.
Yes so he's done a lot for veterans health care and you talk we talked about suicide earlier and you know he's proposing and got some bills through in the past that have really done a lot for that for awareness especially.

(01:02:34):
Within the VA space veterans affairs and so.
I just went to the VA today actually for an appointment and every single time you call him they ask you they do ask you about your mental health and so that's that's good that that's the first topic of conversation.
And so he was behind that so which which is great to see and then we're also seeing overall with the administration has led has has generated legislation that's led to kind of the lowest levels of veterans unemployment that we've ever seen.

(01:03:07):
So I think we're in a good spot and we're definitely.
Definitely moving moving moving in the right direction with waltz and his focus not on really culture issues but more on the support of veterans and service members.
See on the topic of vice presidential fix and we talk about waltz and if there's a debate and upcoming debate between waltz and vance to completely different ideologies are just.

(01:03:33):
So we're totally left fields of each other. Yeah, can you tell us what your opinions on that as as that would potentially come up or even the one that's scheduled for September 10th that's a new one that was announced a couple days ago.
Yeah, I would I would love to see these debates happen and especially because.
Vance and Trump both come from a place of of anger to be honest and hostility.

(01:03:56):
That is going to be a stark difference I think on the debate stage whether it's a common Harris or and Trump or it's the vice president the vice presidential candidates that are going at it.
So waltz is very cool, calm collected, whereas vance you know he was a marine and so I will give in that but also say when you're a marine when you leave the service it's important to continue the support of America the Constitution and citizens.

(01:04:24):
So this is at been a very fruitful discussion with a lot of great insights and great points but we live in Pennsylvania and many people say this is the state that the decide the elections so if you could say anything for the people of this state.
Republicans, Democrats, Independence, libertarians doesn't matter what would you tell them I would tell them they were all Americans.

(01:04:49):
Yeah, we're not defined or defined by country and those things that you know, it was a king which again I mentioned this before but family community work and work ethic and let's focus on let's focus on controversy and then if we do that we find people from all sides willing to do that and willing to fight for that I think will be in a good place.

(01:05:15):
And I think that we are and I think that we're moving that's a great answer and I think really means a lot I mean we're living in a very divided time right now.
And I think that just fighting for fundamental freedoms and rights is very important and now I want to thank you for having joined us.
I think your service to this country is incredibly important the fact that you took that leap to run for Congress is incredibly important as we all have that duty we all have the duty do something for our country and you sir you've done a lot.

(01:05:48):
And thank you for that and thank you for joining us today.
Thanks so much for having you guys and great intelligent questions. Thank you for that.
Next Gen PA is a podcast from the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg. For more information on the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg visit our website at waccharisburg.org.

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