Is the GOP's Grow PA plan good for Pennsylvania students?

The hosts discuss the PA GOP's recently released Grow PA plan for higher education in Pennsylvania and compare it with Governor Shapiro's plan. They bring up the new student teacher stipends that are available as well as a recent poll that ranks states by how welcoming they are. Where do you think PA falls?

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[MUSIC]

(00:07):
Hello and welcome to next GenPA.
I'm Michelle Angert, your host for this week along with.
>> Samuel Pimentel.
>> And this week we are going to talk about the PA GOP's newly introduced plan called GrowPA for higher education in Pennsylvania.
So we just wanted to talk a little bit about the differences between Governor Shapiro's plan and the new PAGOP plan.

(00:33):
So Sam, why don't you start us off with talking about what Governor Shapiro said in his plan for higher education?
>> So about a month ago he had brought up his budget plan, which included a lot of attention and money being brought to higher education in Pennsylvania.
One of the biggest and kind of I think most radical changes he introduced was consolidating all of the public universities such as your Pashi system with community colleges like HACC and creating one unified system.

(01:04):
As well as one of his biggest ideas, which again was very radical and revolutionary would have been for families who make under 70K a year to have to only pay $1,000 a month for tuition.
Now this also included lowering costs overall for students fall income levels.
However, there would have been a huge difference and a huge savings for those who make underneath 70K.

(01:29):
Now as well with universities such as Penn State, Pitt, Temple who are sort of public and affiliated but not necessarily Pashi, there would have been more money going to them rather than less.
Which was huge considering this came right off the summer where there was debates of less money being sent to those universities.

(01:52):
>> Yeah and I think even within his bringing everything sort of consolidated under one governing body, he also introduced an idea of like a funding formula for state affiliated schools.
So based on how the institutions are performing their enrollment levels that would affect their funding from the state as well.

(02:12):
So that was sort of what Shapiro was talking about trying to boost enrollment, get kids back into schools in Pennsylvania because there has been declining enrollment for the past couple years sort of across the board in Pennsylvania for sure.
>> West Chester and Shippensburg are pretty well attended for the state schools.

(02:33):
However I've heard I think Bloomsburg maybe.
I know some of the other lesser known public schools have been having enrollment issues.
To the point where the cost to run them versus the highest profit has been a bit uneven.
Which the consolidation plan was trying to I guess prevent.
I heard very similar things. I think when you're talking to young people now trying to go into college, getting into college.

(02:59):
Kids are always talking about it.
Penn State, you know, Shippensburg all the big ones.
It's difficult for the smaller lesser known schools I think to for such a saturated market.
I think it's very difficult especially with tuition costs being so high.
If they have declining enrollment, they're going to have to up to wish and to sort of make things even in their budgets.

(03:20):
And that really hurts them in the long run.
So maybe with the new plan from Shapiro things will change.
But for sure that's how things are now.
>> Yeah, I know that a lot of people from my school, I'm currently a graduating senior.
It's big three schools I've heard is Pitt, Penn State, West Chester.

(03:43):
And West Chester is the only one of those schools that are actually part of the pashi system.
But Pitt and Penn State, while cheaper because their public necessarily aren't entirely state affiliated.
What I think was interesting about Shapiro's plan is it's actually very similar to what New York does.
Where I think the SUNY, yeah, SUNY, where all this public schools, such as your state schools and community colleges, are all one unified unit.

(04:12):
Which I wasn't expecting to hear that from Pennsylvania.
No, no, I wasn't either.
I think it'll be interesting to see if it does come to fruition, if they are able to bring the schools under one governing body.
I think it's a good idea.
I think having that security and also the looking over your shoulder,

(04:38):
making sure things are run correctly, having hopefully students best interests in mind, keeping costs low,
I think is all very important.
So hopefully these things will change for Pennsylvania higher ed.
What I think was really interesting about this whole thing was the GOP's relative agreement with it.

(04:59):
As we saw in the summer, I mean, there were people worried that Pitt and Penn State,
tuitions would rise.
However, now the GOP for the better definitely has agreed and said we need to put more money to our higher education.
Now there's some disagreements such as the consolidation of all schools and there's some other aspects added.

(05:20):
However, overall it seems that they're both on the same message and having the same general idea
with mostly just little specifics being changed.
Yeah, yeah, the GOP's plan is called Grow PA.
And is basically trying to attract students not just within Pennsylvania from outside of Pennsylvania

(05:41):
to come to schools in Pennsylvania and make them more attractive to students.
So they wanted to introduce new grants and merit scholarships for students, so not just within Pennsylvania,
but outside of Pennsylvania to get them to come to Pennsylvania.
And then if you were going for a specific degree, I think they had sort of tech, climate focused,

(06:07):
was also when they mentioned, if you were going for one of those majors,
then you'd be required to stay in Pennsylvania and work after your graduation in order to get that grant or scholarship money.
And if you don't, it would turn into a loan.
And I was honestly shocked when I read that.
In a good way.
I was pleasantly shocked to read that.

(06:28):
I thought, I think it's a great idea.
Pennsylvania is a wonderful state.
We have amazing higher ed institutions,
so to incentivize students to come here and then have them also work in the state
and bring those new expertise to the field, I think is great.
It's a wonderful idea.
What did you think, Sam?
I thought it was a really good idea, too.

(06:51):
And personally, I think it's actually a better idea than was already proposed.
I think the thing with college is a lot of people want to study things,
but aren't quite sure what to study.
So they go to college and try to figure it out.
However, if you haven't already given incentive of, we'll help pay $5,000,
then yeah, that's what I'll study.

(07:14):
I think it really fills needs in the market.
And also the idea of having people stay in Pennsylvania for, I think, 15 months, right?
Something like that, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, something where it's like, it's enough that I think a lot of people
once they're in Pennsylvania for 15 months might then want to stay
bringing new money to the area versus what happens a lot of times with universities,

(07:38):
especially I've heard this with teaching due to the fact Pennsylvania certificates
carry for many states, most US states,
that people will come to Pennsylvania for school and then leave.
This would incentivize them to stay.
And I think also the idea of just turning it into loans is actually a good
punishment as it's not going to kill you,

(07:59):
so bearing, however, creates incentive to keep your promise of helping PA out.
So actually, it's a really good move by the GOP.
And I'm very interested to see how it goes.
And it definitely could swing some votes, I think.
I think you might see more purple districts, which would have gone for a Democrat,

(08:21):
maybe go Republican, especially if it's an incumbent who was supportive of the spill.
No, I totally agree. I think it's a good sort of forward thinking bill.
On behalf of the PA GOP, I think that they sort of understood the changing
feelings towards higher ed, you know, what field students want to go into more,

(08:44):
what fields are going to be needed in the future.
Tech, climate technology, all these sorts of things are really important.
And to sort of incentivize students to go for those
is really great to see.
I mean, I guess we're going to have to see maybe they haven't thought about the fact
that incentivizing all these people to come here and then forcing them to stay,

(09:05):
there's going to have to be a lot of jobs open for all those graduates.
Maybe they need to think about, you know, some sort of work study programs,
you know, maybe work with local companies to hire on those graduates,
you know, directly out of college, because otherwise you're going to have a very large
population that sort of sort of held hostage in Pennsylvania that has to work here,

(09:25):
but there aren't jobs for them.
But obviously that's a problem for down the road.
But certainly some of you think about, especially in a job market where,
especially in the tech field, you know, things aren't quite as smooth sailing
as we would like them to be.
So to have a lot of large influx of students in those fields and then not
being able to provide them the employment will be a problem.

(09:48):
But sort of just looking at the plans, I really hope that this Shapiro
administration is looking at what the P.A.G.O.P. has put forward and sort of takes it
seriously because personally, I think it could be a really, really beneficial for
Pennsylvania. I think a lot of Pennsylvanians would feel the same way.
Yeah, I tend to agree with you.
And personally, I do think if purely political, that if the Democrats were to

(10:15):
shut this down, that would hurt them because I think people are going to look at
this. And they're going to see that this would bring white collar jobs
depending on you. This would bring white collar like just money.
And if you have that type of money coming into your state, it's going to raise
everything. You're going to have better schools, better just services due to

(10:36):
the increased tax money. And to your point with there being enough jobs,
I think there might be, but it's hard to tell really because we have at
least in Pennsylvania, there's been a lot of state contracting, which is either
from out of state people or out of country people. So the relationship, and I

(10:57):
think it does involve tech as well as one of the fields that contract for.
So you might have to see those relationships end in order to make wave of this
new sort of, I guess, generation of people coming up through the grow PA plan.
However, I do think most people wouldn't be upset for out of state contractors

(11:17):
not having jobs at PA. I think they'd much rather see localized money come rather
than out of state money so that their communities can be revitalized and just
have more money. So I think it could really help shape things if executed
properly as good as it sounds on paper. Yeah, yeah. I'm reading here in

(11:38):
the high demand industries that the new grow PA
program wants to highlight include agriculture, energy, health care,
teachers, law enforcement, and more. So I mean, you can put anything in the
more category, but certainly those industries that they list there are ones
that Pennsylvania does have, you know, a lot of, I mean, you look everywhere,

(12:01):
there's another UPMC building that's cropped up in your neighborhood. So,
you know, hopefully, it will be sustainable and you know, we'll be able to support
those new students, but definitely something to keep in the back of everyone's mind.
But there was a new thing that the Shapiro administration just announced a couple days ago as well
about the student teacher stipend. Did you see that Sam that they have not heard about this?

(12:27):
Okay, so this plan would provide up to $15,000 for eligible student teachers in
Pennsylvania. So basically, you know, when you want to study to be a teacher, you have to go
into your student teaching somewhere. So to sort of incentivize student teachers to come
to be student teachers in Pennsylvania, they would provide them a stipend of

(12:49):
$15,000, which sounds really good to me. I think it comes off the back of the
fact that student teachers in Pennsylvania were not paid a lot of money. So not many student teachers
wanted to come to Pennsylvania. So this was sort of a new initiative to try and bring student
teachers to Pennsylvania, which lower education in Pennsylvania also has had its own challenges as

(13:11):
well. So to bring, you know, high quality teachers into the state is a really good idea.
So as far as I'm aware, is it where student teachers aren't just paid well in general,
or is this a state, more because I know, education is run by the state. So I'm wondering is this a
state thing or a federal issue? So I believe this is the PA student teacher support program,

(13:36):
which will help address critical teacher shortages across Pennsylvania and ensure students have
the freedom to chart their own course and opportunity to succeed. So it provides eligible student
teachers up to $15,000 in stipends and you have to apply through the Pennsylvania
education association it looks like in order to be, you know, to get the money.

(14:01):
And yeah, it is through the Pennsylvania higher education assistance agency. So it is a Pennsylvania
thing that this is specifically. Okay, that's, I think that's interesting as I know,
nationally, there is a teacher shortage overall. And I may be the student teaching part is one of it

(14:21):
and just the overall low salary for a college degree. So maybe this would create a bit more of a
safety sort of barrier that you can at least now afford to student teach. You'll at least have
$15,000, which would survive you semester, right? Isn't student teaching for a semester?
Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. So I guess that with the money you already make from student teaching,

(14:47):
maybe it would be enough for you to have an apartment and be able to survive off that.
So I think this would help. It definitely would make it where your student teaching would have put
you in more debt than you are. Yeah, this is a really interesting statistic. This is from the
the governor of Pennsylvania's website about this new student teacher stipend, but it says,

(15:09):
compared to 10 years ago when Pennsylvania certified approximately 20,000 new teachers every year.
In 2023, Pennsylvania certified just over 5,000 new teachers. And the Commonwealth has 5,500
teacher vacancies in schools across the state right now. So that's sort of a very disappointing statistic.

(15:34):
Yeah. So hopefully this new stipend will encourage a lot of new teachers to come to Pennsylvania to teach
because that's very sad. I'm not really sure how how else to say that.
Especially with the challenges they're having in schools now with just getting kids to pay attention.

(15:55):
I imagine having vacant teacher spots is not going to help the education of these kids whatsoever.
No, yeah, public education or sort of education in general is so, so important. And to not have
enough teachers to really provide the education that students need is heartbreaking. Yeah. And to have,

(16:16):
you know, students coming out of COVID, having learned online and then having to go back in the
classroom, you need strong, well-equipped teachers with all the resources that they need in order to
provide the best education for students. And yeah, it's really sad that that's not happening across
Pennsylvania. So hopefully with this new, new initiative, at least the Shapiro administration seems

(16:44):
like they're trying to do something to encourage teachers to come to Pennsylvania.
I think a lot of these type of policies is what is going to make Shapiro, I think, a more popular
governor than previous ones. As it feels like he's rather well, other governors have tried to introduce
stuff, especially early. I feel like he's introducing a lot of pretty radical and changing bills,

(17:08):
but not necessarily bills that are alienating. The GOP, for say, as they almost agreed with them 100%.
So I think a lot of bills like this, you could see Shapiro get elected for another term, just
basically, that more teachers are coming to Pennsylvania, more college-educated people are living in Pennsylvania.
So I think a lot of changes like that, this are going to be huge and can definitely change how our

(17:35):
sort of state will run for the next four, eight years.
I'm just reading another thing here from Penn Live that this teacher was really,
really excited when this stipend came out because they were working an unpaid 12-week student
teaching requirements. So it looks like not even all student teacher positions are paid to begin with.

(17:59):
So obviously a stipend goes even a little bit to rectify that because how on earth you could go a
12-week position, then not be paid for it, and it's a requirement. I did not know that. That's crazy.
Can't even cover gas money with that car payment? Nothing. I don't know how you

(18:21):
could live off of that. No, all right. This is a great idea. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you, Shapiro for trying to fix that. So is there anything else in education things that you
wanted to talk about Sam? I think mostly just the fact that where did this change come from?
It feels like to me at least previously before the Shapiro administration, we hadn't seen much

(18:44):
investment. Now in fairness, we ended Wolf's administration just on trying to figure out how to fix
COVID. So I think the room for education wasn't there, but it feels like ever since Shapiro has been
in office, we've gotten a lot changed. So I'm just curious what you think maybe where this heightened
focus in education came from, whether it may be more cynical about it or whether it's a genuine

(19:09):
want to help? I don't know. I'm almost wondering if we can say we have COVID to thank for this increased
interest in funding education because I'm almost wondering and you can call me cynical for this,
but having all the students home for however long COVID was trying to teach them virtually with

(19:31):
all the parents at home, I'm sure there were some homes where the parents were like, man, I really wish
my kids could go back to school today. I really wish I could send them to school and the teachers could
teach them this algebra that I do not understand and cannot explain to them. And I'm almost wondering
if coming back from COVID, lots of parents and lawmakers really understood the importance of

(19:59):
public education and teachers in our society and the important roles that they play.
I'm hoping that is a factor in why we see a lot more interest in funding public education and
COVID was awful, but maybe we can thank it for this one thing. What do you think Sam?
I definitely think you saw a more, when you see education fail, then you realize the importance of it.

(20:25):
And don't get me wrong, I think especially in urban rural communities, you saw education fail
there. However, once you saw a widespread fail of education across even wealthy communities,
I think that's when people had woken up and said, oh, this is important, we need to invest in it.
And when you see kids SAT scores dropping, when you see a lot of interest in the classroom, go away,

(20:52):
it just, it says volumes about the importance of higher education and just lower education as well.
Because that's really what makes a developed country, a developed country is the education.
I mean, sure, the luxuries are very nice, such as automobiles, technology, things like that.
But what makes it different is really do people have the skills to be able to function at a higher level.

(21:19):
And if we can't teach that from K through 12, if they have a struggle to understand concepts and
things and are going to be lower educated, the generations before them, I think we're going to set the
nation up for failure. Yeah, I think you're very correct on the thing you said, I think when we saw
the SAT scores and keystones and the tests coming out of COVID and we realized that our students

(21:45):
were really struggling, that we needed to take a long hard luck at how we were running our education
system in Pennsylvania and it looks like at least some changes are trying to be made, which hopefully
will be better for the next generations of Pennsylvanians coming through our school systems.
Yeah, I think you just can't fail our future because you can try to deal with issues now that are

(22:11):
currently facing us and I think we should. However, our future is something that you can't gamble on.
You can't say, well, you know, we'll see what happens. It's, no, you've seen things fall when education fell
and you need to act before you have a whole generation who's going to be lost and clueless. So I'm happy
to see the Shapiro administration help and I'm happy to see Republican lawmakers finally, I think,

(22:36):
take this topic seriously rather than just say school vouchers, now they can pay for and go in debt.
You're finally seeing the Republicans, I think, realize that we do need to genuinely fund.
And while I know they're against government spending as much as possible, or taxation,
government spending as much as possible, I think they've realized that in certain aspects,

(22:58):
they need to do that and honestly, I feel proud of them for realizing that. I feel very proud to see
that the Republicans, I think, have woken up and realized the importance of our education.
Yeah, I know I was very happy to see strong similarity between both the PAGOP's plan

(23:19):
that they just put out and the Shapiro administration's plan for higher ed and sort of
the merging of same sort of ideas across the, you know, political spectrum and divide in
Pennsylvania regarding education is heartening to me. It makes me feel sort of excited, I guess,
for the future of Pennsylvania, which no matter what side of the political divide you've been on,

(23:42):
that hasn't always been something that we can say about Pennsylvania and politics for sure,
but this sort of has made me look a little bit happier on the future. Maybe things will be
turning around a little bit and we can hopefully come to some agreements about things with a lot
makers in the future without having to go to government shutdowns and things. Maybe they'll be able

(24:05):
to come to some agreements. That would be nice. I know, I guess, we can't really talk about any of
this without saying that there is an election coming up in a couple weeks time. No, well, the primaries
in a couple weeks time, but then on the actual election in November. And the PAGOP putting out this

(24:27):
plan, cynically, we can say maybe they're doing it just to try and win some kudos points with swing
voters, undecided voters. We can say that, but I think, and I hope that they are saying this with
all sincerity that these are things that they want to do, and they're not just trying to do it for
political gain, because I really do think that the things that they are saying are important

(24:49):
and things that we should try and implement within Pennsylvania. So I do hope that they're not just
saying these things. I hope so too. And to be honest, for both parties, I think it's probably just
as much about the election for the Republicans as it is for the Democrats. I think, now maybe that's

(25:09):
why you're seeing both of them work together or something along those lines. However, I think it
can change people's opinions whether that's intentional or not, as again, if you're an incumbent
Republican and you've very much supported this bill, I think you could see some party line support
of people being like, well, I know this guy has already helped me before, so I'll vote for him again.

(25:33):
Maybe that changes things. Now, I don't think this will have any bearing on the federal elections.
I don't think people are going to vote for Trump or Biden based on this bill, neither have had
anything to do with this. And I doubt it will affect the Casey/McCormick
of results either. However, you might see a change in the P.A. House and P.A. Senate,

(25:54):
which would be huge as there is, I believe, a democratic majority, but it's by one C.
And if you have a lot of GOP people pushing policies that help Pennsylvanians,
I mean, you're going to vote for the party that helps you. And if both are helping,
then I think you won't see a change, but if maybe people align more with what the GOP is doing,

(26:16):
they're going to vote that way. So, to not be sent, to try not to be cynical, I hope they're just
doing this. I have the goodness of lying to help the people who vote for them. However,
as politics always is, there's an aspect of wanting power. Yeah, no, I know for sure I'm going to be
looking at my local people in the race to see where they fall on this new initiative. What they're

(26:41):
talking about, you know, that's definitely going to factor into who I vote for come election day. So,
I'm sure a lot of other people will be doing the same thing. Yeah. Well, on a less political note,
I don't know if you saw this, Sam, but there was recently a study put out about most welcoming states
in the United States. Where do you think Pennsylvania fell on this out of all 50 states?

(27:07):
I don't know. I feel like it depends where you enter. I mean, if you're going in Philly, I don't think
people would rank it very highly. I think people in Harrisburg though, very high. I think people
in Harrisburg people are very nice. I will go in top 15. You would be wrong. We ranked 47th.

(27:28):
Too many people are coming through Philly. That's the interesting thing. You need to come through Harrisburg.
Yeah. So apparently, Missouri was the last, the most unwelcoming, yeah, was Missouri. Missouri was
the last, but we were 47th, which is very sad. I don't think we are that bad. No. I genuinely like, how does

(27:54):
Jersey make above us? Maybe they didn't. I'm not sure who's who's 48th, but Vermont, Maine and Hawaii
were first, second and third. Okay. I can see that. Yeah. 47th. So yeah, below us is Illinois,
Massachusetts and Missouri. New Jersey came in at 37th. Also, really, I mean, I don't know. I guess

(28:20):
we're more welcoming than Illinois. So that's something that certainly something they surveyed
a thousand 17 Americans about their views on greetings, welcoming and other nonverbal gestures.
The study was finalized in March 2024 based on self-reported answers. So they obviously may have
had a bias, but yeah, apparently we are more likely to greet people with a handshake instead of a

(28:52):
smile. I don't really see though how that's bad. I mean, handshake, that takes more time and effort.
Right. Smile is pretty easy to produce. Like handshake, that's like formal. I don't know.
I think the studies are wrong. I think so. I think we should conduct our own study where Pennsylvania comes

(29:13):
out on top, where the most friendly state of all the states. It's possible. Hawaii and Maine credit.
Okay. Hawaii and Maine can have that. What was the other one, Vermont? Vermont. Okay. I'll give that.
Yeah. But come on. Jersey, New York. You mean there are nicer than us? Yeah. I mean, it's

(29:35):
Florida. Texas. Okay. Let's see where Florida is. Florida is 21st and Texas is 18. So this is
clearly a flawed study. Texas is like, it's, well, what do you walk in there? It's a desert. It's like,
if not desert, but it's like a heat trap. And everyone's walking around with like a rifle. That's not

(29:58):
friendly, but I guess you give you a smile instead of, you know, shake your hand. There we go. Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe they only surveyed one Pennsylvania person and it was a person that just doesn't like
to say hello to anybody. It's just like, no, I'm not doing that. And that's why we ranked so low.
Like, what about, you know, Pittsburgh is like that classic Midwestern, you know,

(30:22):
friendliness. I know. Erie? Who doesn't like someone from Erie?
I, it's just, it's crazy to me. I always found Pennsylvania people would be very friendly.
So I do not agree with this survey. So who are you? You are
preply. Preply did the survey? I disagree with you. I think we're much better than that.

(30:46):
I think in your last, that does not feel right. Texas 18, Florida. I mean, people have done the Florida
man thing. You can't tell me the state with Florida man is going to rank about Pennsylvania.
They're just really happy in Florida, I guess, and they just exudes welcoming. I mean, yeah, I guess,

(31:06):
I don't know if they can see me happy in Florida and sunshine, beaches. We don't have beaches, maybe
that's our issue. Maybe that might be it. Yes. I can see that being a thing. All you've got is
erie and that doesn't count. It does not count. There's sand and water, but it's not a,
real, it's not a warm, nice beach. No. No, I mean, they tried on a city island. They tried to have

(31:31):
a little beach today. I would not swim in the Susquehanna. It's beautiful to look at.
So now we're getting into it. I can see why maybe we're not the most welcoming.
Maybe it was more natural environment. Um, less people, because I think the people are pretty friendly.
But yeah, now I think we should at least be a little bit higher. That is, that's rough.

(31:56):
It is rough. Well, all right, Sam. Thank you for having this discussion today. I hope everyone
joins us again next time for another great discussion. Have a great day. It's beautiful weather.
It's, we're done. Winter's over, I think. So, I think we'll be more like Florida now.

(32:20):
Yes. We can be like Florida. So have a great day, everyone. And please join us next time.
Next Gen PA is a podcast from the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg.
For more information on the World Affairs Council of Harrisburg, visit our website at
wacharrisburg.org.
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