Unmasking the Dark Reality of TV with special guest Julie Ofcharsky

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What's up, y'all? My name's Jesse. Welcome to the first episode of Next Mood
Swing. I'm really excited.
I've been wanting to put this out for a long time, but, you know,
we're here now and that's what matters.
My first guest is Julie Offcharski from Bad Girls Club Season 9.
I wanted Julie to come on because our relationship is really unique in the sense
of when her season was on, I was doing an after show for Bad Girls Club and

(00:23):
ragged on her for what I was seeing on TV.
We ended up meeting in person afterwards and listening to her experience really
opened my mind and kind of has been this theme in everything I've done in entertainment
up until now about pop culture being almost like a mirror to society and what

(00:45):
our beliefs and values are.
And sometimes I have conversations with different people, if it's actually a
mirror or if it's an agenda.
And so I wanted to create a platform where I could bring different people on
to be able to share these conversations with you and see what y'all think.
So if you like the conversation, hit that subscribe button, that like button
and leave a comment down below.
Julie of Charsky. Charsky. Hey, boo. It's been a long time. It has.

(01:11):
But we back on the mics. Yes, we are. Who is Julie today versus Julie on BGC?
Well, it's funny. I was recently chatting with a friend about this because when
I did BGC, I was called out for a lot of my bad behavior on the show.
I wasn't nice to people. I treated people badly. deadly.

(01:33):
And one of the things that I'm actually really grateful for is that I wasn't
well received on television because as traumatic as it was, I was held accountable
and it forced me to look in a mirror and change my behavior.
And so I am a different person today than I was on Bad Girls Club.
And a big part of it is because I did Bad Girls Club.

(01:55):
And what a unique experience to like, so I'm not gonna lie, I went back and
watched some clips and I was just like, oh my God, He was like a baby back then.
I'm not the type of girl that's going to talk to a guy and take him home.
I'll flirt with you to get drinks out of you. And then if you are annoying,
I'll be like, get the fuck away from me. That's just how I am.
And just like this little Boston girl, just this little shit.

(02:15):
You get it. You're from there. We talk a lot of shit.
It's a shit talking. It's an East Coast thing. It's like you know how to talk
shit, but at the same time, it's like, I have this with a lot of my friends.
If I can't be honest and real with you, whether it, you know,
and there's ways to talk about tone and stuff like that.
But if I can't be real with you, keep it girl like.

(02:36):
And I feel like that's what you and me have always kind of had that where I
remember Danny was like, you know, you need to meet Julie.
And we met and I had I was kind of nervous because I had like dragged you for your whole season.
And, you know, and it was like, but then I met you.
We talked. You explained to me your version of stuff. I knew shows were edited,

(02:57):
but I didn't understand...
The behind the scenes of producing reality TV. Well, now that you work in reality
TV, I'm sure you see it really differently.
Oh, and again, that's why I am so, that's why I needed you to be the first person on this podcast.
Tell me about your upbringing, Boston, obviously, but for the viewers that don't

(03:18):
know, tell me about your upbringing. What was your childhood like?
And how did that lead into you wanting to do Bad Girls? Yeah,
so I had an interesting childhood.
I had an idyllic childhood in the sense that, you know, upper middle class, like my mom didn't work.
I was very fortunate. Like she was able to stay home and like take care of us.

(03:41):
But the thing I guess that was unusual about my childhood was that I was adopted.
So I was adopted by my aunt and uncle because my biological mother had mental
illness and was a heavy drug user.
And, you know, she had three kids and wasn't able to take care of any of them.
So that was something that I wasn't made aware of until I was nine years old. Wow.

(04:03):
So I went through my whole childhood, like, thinking these are my biological
parents and my biological siblings.
And then when I was nine years old, my mom told me I was adopted.
And as you can imagine, like, to a nine-year-old, that's, like,
a crushing, like, devastating.
Did you know your actual mom at that time? Yes, and I was introduced.
Who was she in your life? My aunt.
Okay. So my aunt adopted me, and, like, they basically, like,

(04:25):
swapped. Swapped. Yeah.
How did you handle that at nine? Did you understand it? How do you handle that at nine?
I mean, I was really inquisitive. Like I asked lots of questions.
My mom, my adoptive mom, who I call my mom, that's who raised me.
I asked lots of questions.
But, and I get why my mom did it. Like because her reasoning was that she didn't,

(04:48):
she wanted to tell us at an age where she felt we could understand.
And she didn't want us to go through like being little kids with like knowing
that like almost to protect a sort of innocent meaning me and my sister,
my sibling who was also adopted. Right.
So because she, I get her reasoning behind it. I also feel like adoption is

(05:09):
just a super traumatic event regardless.
And it's hard to navigate. Like it's pretty impossible to leave that situation
unscathed. So do you feel like there was a moment where, did you have like a rebellious moment?
Is there, was it? I think there was definitely like rebellious moments.
Like when I I would say when I

(05:30):
got to high school like my like partying and
all that got pretty out of control like it
went up and down it wasn't the whole time but like
there were times where I was out of control like I got alcohol poisoning when
I was 14 very on par with massive
being a Boston girl yeah I like almost
died it was so bad but so for sure

(05:51):
but I think the way and I
don't think think this is anything on like my adoption story
or like the way my parents handled it I think this is just something that
happens when you were adopted is like you're always there's
always just kind of like this piece of like
did I do something wrong was it like was
it me yeah even though like you know like you're

(06:12):
a baby like obviously it's not you know but I
think that you kind of always carry that with you and I
noticed like I think that's why I was drawn to entertainment like i
loved being on stage i loved i was a theater kid
like i wanted to be in the
spotlight by any means necessary and i think
that's kind of the general consensus of

(06:34):
like most people in entertainment you know like they they love
it and the reason why is because they want to be loved like that
desire like to be famous and
to be known and to like have not just
just about money but like fame you know what I mean and to have a.
Career and like a following like that is such

(06:54):
a deep desire of people and was for me for a really long time
and I know now that the root of that is like it's this.
Root of wanting to be loved so do you feel
that going on bad girls what made you sign up for bad
girls club out of because I know we've personally talked like.
About growing up you liked watching like survivor
and stuff like that like so what was it about bad girls that was like well so

(07:17):
I originally auditioned for real worlds I did not get real worlds so then I
was called in for an audition you would have been an iconic real world right
well I messed up in my interview because they asked if I would fight basically and I was like yeah.
They gave me a hypothetical scenario. What would you do if someone did X to you?
And I was like, well, I went back and hit them. No, I had a similar one with

(07:39):
Cassie. I thought I was tough.
I didn't do real world because they were like, if you were in a jacuzzi,
would you randomly make out with somebody because they told you they liked you?
Wait, that's so funny because I did that with five people on Mad Girls Club.
I was like, my personality is probably not. I might look at them really weird.
I would give y'all a lot of memes before memes were a thing.

(08:01):
So i feel that okay yeah so you
signed up for bad girls club yep and you
you went through it and did you obviously infamously you
know you to me you ran the house in
a very different way than we saw a lot of
bad girls it was more of like mental warfare

(08:22):
with you really um a lot
of the fans you know ripped you apart trashed
you the girls on the show brought all the substances to
pour on you oh my goodness
how did you deal with that afterwards how did you deal did you have shame from
being on the show did you have what kind of pain like again you're saying like

(08:43):
this need to be loved and then all of a sudden people are like hating on you
how did you deal with that kind of It was so it was really difficult because to me,
like the people that I liked watching on reality TV were like chaotic.
Like I loved Tiffany Pollard, who was not nice to any of the girls in the house.

(09:05):
Like that was the whole point. You know what I mean?
Or I loved the Rock of Love girls or I loved I love money.
Like that was the type of reality TV that I was on.
And then also Survivor and Big Brother because my mom loved that shit.
But so for me, I'm like going into this very much thinking of it as like a job

(09:25):
and very much thinking of it as like I want to stay to the end and I want to be really successful.
Iconic like i want to like make impression you
know what i mean and i'm not a fighter like that's
not i'm clearly not great at that that's not
my thing i mean but you did try i'll give i'll give you like in the seat like

(09:48):
i was watching the reunion over and i mean you did put your hands up you did
slip on the floor i'm not a punk right okay i'll take it i'll get knocked down
exactly listen i'm not a punk i may not win but i will fight i will not win
shy away from a fight period we love
we love honesty that's that i know my shortcomings but

(10:09):
because i knew that like because i was like okay i'm not going to be this iconic
like physical fighter you know right so i have to assert myself in a different
way and then in addition to that like people pleaser that i am which is gonna
sound so stupid to people because they're like Like you were an asshole,
but it's like, because I wanted to make production happy.

(10:33):
Like, when you- Which majority of the people, I don't even wanna put it on the
girls on Bad Girls Club, every show I work- That, you get it.
The cast wants to appease everyone on set.
Yeah. That is the point, right?
And produces puppet that's we've all know y'all
have heard yes and i was the producer's puppet and does

(10:56):
that in any way negate like
my bad actions no 100 no i hold myself accountable and i carried deep shame
for like many years over the way even though i might not have acted like it
i did like i was very embarrassed but how did you work through that mentally
because like years Years of therapy,

(11:19):
like unpacking my own trauma and everything like I was in a fight or flight
mode, like I was living in fight or flight mode before I ever went on to Bad
Girls Club because of things I was experiencing in my own life,
you know, so I wasn't living like a life where I was like safe and regulated

(11:40):
like I was in fight or flight mode all the time.
So I go into Bad Girls Club, which like a you're being manipulated and be it's
a super triggering experience.
And I was triggered and it's brought out the worst in me. And people who've
never done reality TV won't get it.
People who have done reality TV will, including the girls from my cast who,

(12:01):
you know, most have forgiven me because they get it.
But I mean, forgiving myself because I was doing what I had to do at the time to survive.
Like all of that can exist at once. like my
behavior can have been hurtful and impacted people
negatively and I can feel like deeply sorry for that and like shame for that

(12:24):
but I can also forgive myself for that because I know that that was the way
that I treated people was coming from a place of like deep trauma and pain and
like wanting to protect myself.
It's so funny because when I hear your story and a lot of the reason why on
AfterBuzz, the girls who I brought on as hosts, a lot of them were because I

(12:47):
had, you know, a personal conversation outside of the show.
My biggest thing was whatever I talked to you guys about was not my place to
share that information unless one of you guys brought it up.
Right, right. And Alicia Simone.
To say things, this is from Alicia's mouth, you know, and that's what people tend to like up.
And it drives me crazy was one of the first girls

(13:09):
i remember back then when we did after buzz her big reasoning and
i got so much hate for letting her do it everyone like couldn't
stand her they thought she was so fake and again another
one on her season i was like
she is a follower and but we had
a conversation offline we did herbal life together too and
she really like had taught

(13:31):
shared with me her story of exactly like
what you said like i watched myself i hated how i
hate watching myself i hate that i i'm happy
i did it because i could see myself but at the same
time i want to be different i want to change exactly
and everyone saw her changing and was
like no completely you're the same story of my life story of

(13:51):
my life so you still get it today okay of course I mean
there's the thing is is like when you
believe all the good stuff that people
say about you you also have to believe all the bad stuff people say
about you and the reality is is that there's going to be truth
to all of it like people think in very black and white terms and like in reality
that's not the case like I you know I had a conversation with Alicia when she

(14:17):
first got off the show and the show had not aired yet but she was basically
like going through with me like.
That she had a feeling that like basically
what I had just gone through and like how I
was painted to be a certain way or manipulated to do certain things that made
me look really bad like she had gone through something similar and reached out

(14:41):
to me and like I had a conversation with her and was just basically like you
can't listen to the good stuff you can't listen to the bad stuff like like it was your experience,
it's months of footage edited down into 13 episodes. Right.
It's less than 13 hours of months of footage. Does it...
Mean that you didn't do things wrong no but.

(15:03):
At the end of the day no one knows how.
They're going to act in that situation until they're in it also name
someone who went on there and did things right that because
you even look at like an amber mead right who's the nicest
sweetest everything but she was a little shit on
her season we all were because it brings out the worst news
and the show's called bad girls club it's designed to trigger

(15:24):
you it's an experiment it's literally elite
you're a rat in a maze and it's so funny you say that too because
i say that on most shows with the cast that i've
worked on that aren't you know pitting people against
each other which is what bad girls really was about
but you have to think like these people don't have
phones you're being sequestered most people don't even know what sequestering is

(15:44):
they don't know sequestering will have you rethink
your life imagine being a you can
only equate it to being in a prison cell yeah because
you have no tv confinement sometimes no clock and
all you all you waiting for is someone in 24 hours
someone to come knock on your door and tell you what the next move is
yeah and most of the time it's just wait here just wait

(16:06):
here for hours yeah like okay no literally
thinking about whatever just happened especially
if you get in a fight with someone and then you gotta go stay in a hotel somewhere
like now you're everything that's on your mind you are consumed by
whatever the show is so you spoke about having that
talk with alicia are there any girls from the show that you
are cool with that you had beef with on the show who

(16:28):
are you so many like who do you keep in contact with do you have any bad girlfriends.
Judy and i are in contact erica aka luchi v and i are in contact on twitter
all the time christina salgado from my season jersey we talk jada and and I.
Are in contact. Rima and I are in contact.
Ashley from my season, I are in contact. Okay. The thing is, is like,

(16:52):
I don't hold anything against anybody for anything that happened on that show
because we were all just trying to survive in a fucked up situation.
So another person was obviously I met you through Danny.
And I know that like during the time you guys were about to go on BGC 13 redemption,
right? Was that redemption?

(17:13):
Yeah. Yeah. And I remember she met up with me. You guys had gotten into it over something with CT.
And she i met
up with her and was trying to like mend you guys because
you were about to go film together yeah it was the night before the
day before yeah before and so after that
for me i don't know if i i think i

(17:33):
might have talked to her a few times online where's your
friendship now i know you guys kind of did
anything meant from that and or if not could
you ever see yourself having a conversation and
be being cool again as far as
mending things no like we're not friends we're not
in contact the reason for that was you

(17:56):
know there were things as you kind of mentioned like there
was an argument that happened off camera before the
show like prior to filming and so i think we went into the house with unresolved
issues and then those issues kind of of blew up like I think it was very easy
for people to turn Dani against me because she was already like feeling a certain

(18:19):
type of way towards me because of a situation with CT.
But we did mend things at the end of that season.
There was like a big therapy session
and we mended things and we had a conversation and hugs and whatever.
I don't think our friendship was quite the same after that. We were also living
on separate coasts. I was in LA. She was still in Boston.

(18:40):
And then when the BGC 13 reunion came around, basically she had texted me and
said that she something to the effect of she was mad that I had lied to her
about why I didn't attend the reunion.
And the reason that she called me out on that is because somebody in
production had shared with the girls that the reason i wasn't that
a reason i was allowed to not attend the reunion

(19:02):
was because i was having a like a mental health crisis so
she was upset by that but i didn't feel like she was a safe person to share
that with at the time you know and then i got a follow-up text and mind you
i was like in the midst of a mental health crisis as you know to skip a reunion
is not like no small It's not allowed,

(19:23):
to be honest. It's not taken lightly at all.
So you can imagine what I had to go through for that to even happen.
And then she called me out saying, oh, yeah, they played a bunch.
And they played a bunch of clips of you talking shit about me,
which when I asked other girls that were at the reunion what was said,
it wasn't anything that egregious.
It was like we were not getting along the whole season. Like we both said bad

(19:47):
things about each other.
But the thing that none of that is unforgivable. like
the thing the reason why i can't associate with
her anymore is because danny has always been a person to take
it to the internet and to take it to youtube and to
take it to a podcast and to just like bring like her
issues with me public and like i developed a friendship with her completely

(20:09):
like yes we met because we were both on bad girls club but we developed a friendship
off camera like we had a very very that was a legit that's why that's why it
kind of hurts me and i remember I remember meeting up with her because I was
like, no, y'all can't not be friends. Yeah, no.
Like, and it's unfortunate that like.
Yeah, it's just it's the whole thing sucks. But unfortunately,

(20:32):
like I cannot allow people into my life.
Like I've had so much turmoil and like bullshit in my life.
Like I can't allow people in my life that are not like safe havens for me.
And somebody who is going to take any of our issues to the Internet is just
like not a safe person for me to be friends with.
So that's where I'm at with it. fair enough and speaking of taking things to

(20:53):
the internet you said that you were cool with christina.
Have you seen i mean i know you have because i've
seen you uh repost a clip on twitter this interview she did with rocky yes um
where she talked about her experience going on zeus and filming the bad girls
club thing you know we've talked a little bit about that but how did that But

(21:17):
kind of, you know, for the people listening,
how did that turn into starting a petition to, you know, cancel baddies on Zeus
to kind of going down this rabbit hole?
And then I want to talk about how kind of I latched on and went down that rabbit hole with you. Yeah.
So, you know, like I said, I still talk to some of the girls and,

(21:40):
you know, there were some girls that I still speak to, like Jada and Judy and
other people who, you know, have done the show.
And I had just been hearing rumblings like rumors and things about what was
going on at Zeus and that things were not right and then I saw the interview

(22:02):
with Christina where Christina described,
some of the most like horrific egregious work sexual abuse I've ever heard including
being being locked in a room for hours and pressured into what is implied to be like sexual favors.

(22:23):
And it just like made me sick to my stomach.
And the thing that really bothers me about it is, you know, I've talked a lot
about Natalie. I'll just get it out there.
But Natalie comes from Bad Girls Club.
Like she understands that in reality TV, there's always going to be a certain

(22:46):
level of exploitation that happens. Yep.
That's just kind of what it is. it's par for the
course of what we do
in reality television because you are giving up a
piece of yourself you're not playing a character like you
are but not to the public you're taking
a piece of yourself that is producible and
you are playing that character that because we are not all

(23:10):
one dimensional so yes it's really just
a magnified version of are you like new york if
you ever meet New York in real life she's not she's
crazy but she plays a character it's a
character yeah to a degree you
know what I mean like she got it in her no exactly a.
Hundred percent but so the thing

(23:31):
that bothers me is that Natalie is recruiting
these girls I mean if you go back and look at the origins
of the show there was a lot of shady business going on season
one with like they all started the show together she kind
of took the show and ran with it which i watched that i
watched all of sarah's she got an online she calls
it a book but it's really like these videos that she

(23:53):
sends you in a drop box it's seven dollars totally recommend it
is when i tell you sarah is the risa tisa
of bad girls which after you watch it because
i saw some of your tweets and i was like let me go down this rabbit hole
and it's not even just christina's interview
you hear christina's interview and it's devastating it's horrible
but it opens up a whole other can of worms

(24:15):
then you hear things that past girls have said like seven from bad girls club
recounted a time where you know that people were trying to get in her room while
she was sleeping you go down even just not on baddies like you taught you go
to jocelyn's cabaret and you can see these are real lawsuits like that.
I don't want to say her name wrong, I think it's Amber, but she's in a lawsuit

(24:39):
right now because at the reunion,
Jocelyn's man apparently grabbed her rumor, this is alleged, right?
Because there is no footage of it, but a lot of girls went live afterwards talking
about how this man grabbed her hair out of her head and beat her face in.
And they're in court for that right now.
So you can look that up. I also watched.

(25:04):
Lunel who's a comedian yep i've seen she
did one of the reunions and for jocelyn's cabaret
jocelyn's cabaret and when i tell you i interviewed this woman
she is crazy love in a good in the best way possible in a
great way um she's been around the block she understands
the pimp hole lifestyle yeah and she
went on there and said i regret doing it like and

(25:25):
i don't regret a lot of shit in my life but i regret going on that
she was like this there were pimps and hoes i'm not
taking it back yeah she was like it's not alleged i
saw it with my eyes and then you see the owner
of zeus come out and try to argue with
her that that's not what she saw and it's just like where there's smoke there's
fire to some what would her incentive be to say that i mean she has a bigger

(25:49):
platform than zeus network to be honest yeah more people know who lunel is than
zeus network when you bring Bring up Zeus Network. Don't let Zeus tell you that.
Well, when you bring up Zeus Network to anybody in the industry in L.A., they don't know.
95% of people don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Or they're like.
But no. So what I was saying about Natalie is the thing that bothers me specifically

(26:13):
because people want me to. I'm coming for Zeus.
Like I'm coming for the whole network. I guess that was my next question.
Like people are like you have a personal vendetta against Natalie because you
weren't on where you weren't asked to be on baddies.
And you do you want to be on baddies no girl the way you went
in this in this little like last season or the
caribbean the way you they would have thrown you off the boat like

(26:36):
the assertion that i would want to be on baddies is so funny
like although for some reason i could see
you being front cool with roly and then i feel like roly would
have your back but then roly be so up on because let
me not go down that route i love the
hypothetical scenarios though no um i'm too too old
to go on baddies I can't fight I'm trying

(26:58):
to be at home with my dogs like I'm not trying to go on baddies at all
but the thing that really bothers me about it like not only
because these things have happened to women
that like I know and I've worked with and people are gonna say well you and
Christina weren't friends or you and Sarah weren't friends like okay just because
I'm not friends with somebody doesn't mean that like I've know that person I've
worked with that person like Like I it affects me when I see them like going

(27:22):
through something horrible like this is horrible.
It's so so like unfathomably like nightmarishly bad.
The allegations and a lot of what's even just out there that is proven like
videos of Natalie making out with an employee like.
Oh please let's get into that. But before we do I want to say like it's a you

(27:44):
know you see these allegations right. Right.
And it's like similar to like there's a documentary out right now called It's That Nickelodeon.
Oh, quiet on set. I've watched all four episodes. So working in the industry
like Dan Schneider, like these aren't we all we've been we've known this.
But the public, which I also my other thing is, I feel like this documentary

(28:06):
is really trying to take away from the whole Diddy scandal happening right now.
But that's another story.
You know, and is Dan Schneider a bad guy?
Like, yeah, he should not have been. He's a pedophile. Yeah.
Sexualizing. Regardless, like
literally regardless, I don't care if he has put hands on a child or not.
I mean, there's definitely speculation that he has.
But but you're sexualizing children. Regardless. Exactly. Exactly.

(28:28):
You're literally filming fetish content with kids in it for children.
You're sick. You're a pedo. Literally.
Goodbye. by and my thing is with baddies it's like
look again i want grew up i saw this
meme it was like don't try me i grew up watching
bad girls club kind of a thing and i get that too
because it's like look i went back i watched some episodes of bad girls we lived

(28:53):
for the fight but the show was not a bow it wasn't a brawling there was storyline
and also the fight and you'd be irritated because you'd have to wait a whole
episode and it's a filler episode but the fight's It's going to be in the next episode.
Well, and then the editing on the fights. It was like the fucking purple,
like looking like Spider-Man comic book. Yeah.

(29:15):
You know, which I do miss that when I do watch the baddie.
But no, like, and listen, you know, I have my qualms about Bad Girls Club.
I think Bad Girls Club was exploitative.
I don't think that it was positive content to put out. Do I think there were a lot of iconic moments?
Yes, of course. but for me to have like qualms about Batgirls Club Batty's makes

(29:36):
Batgirls Club look like Barney Batty's makes Batgirls Club look like Sesame Street yeah,
And to know that not only like we're like we're not even talking about what's
going on on the show, which is egregious.
People having seizures and miscarriages and getting beat up and drugs on set
and pimps on set. I know I just watched the audition.

(29:56):
A blind girl showed up to the audition and got jumped, like got beat up on it.
And it's like or then you see a clip of Natalie being like, you want the ticket?
You want the ticket? Punch her.
Like, no, but this is why now. Is that how they casted you on Bad Girls Club?
Was it like, we want to see how you fight. Can you fucking imagine?
Roll them sleeves up, girl. Literally, no, because that's insane.

(30:19):
Because that's fucking insane. I want to know what insurance Zeus has,
because I'd just be looking at them. I'm like.
None. They have manipulation and control. They have manipulation,
financial coercion, control.
Like, they are specifically seeking out women. women, because notice all the

(30:41):
women who've had a following or who are established or who have careers,
they haven't lasted on the show.
So the women they're truly seeking out, they'll use women with a platform to
like enhance their viewership, of course.
But the women they're really seeking out for the core cast are poor.
They have substance abuse issues.
There was one story I heard where one cast member when

(31:02):
she wasn't filming was living in her car and on food stamps
when she's not filming like that is
that sets up a situation for
people to be abused because they're in
a situation of desperation and these
predators and also rumor is
a lot of the girls or sex workers some

(31:24):
of the girls not a lot but it's not but the girls
being sex workers isn't so much the issue you as
it's they're being put in a situation in
a workplace situation where if they are
not performing sexual favors they
are not going to continue to have
a job and that's so interesting because recently like

(31:45):
obviously like i saw this interview with 5e04 and the
rapper and he talked about like how natalie stole his best friend or something
like that and i'm looking at this guy this successful rapper right right with
Nicki Minaj like you out here doing the thing and you're talking about Natalie
Nunn like what and then come to find out it was Curtis Club and,

(32:09):
who then was dating Natalie because she takes breaks from being a mom and wife and,
again just different you know I don't know I just feel like the older you get
you want to be more of of a role model to people and kids and.
Also, just like you look at like Harvey Weinstein,

(32:31):
who used his power to have sexual relations with people and gave them spots
and made them kind of go back and forth on each other.
Who's going to show daddy what? No, literally.
You're playing that part. And then this is on Natalie and also Lemmy.

(32:52):
I mean, one of the CEOs, because then when I found out who owns Zeus. King Bach.
To storm power amanda cerny that's
who owns this network those three people and let me
and let me but i have tweeted and reached out and said xyz to all three of those

(33:15):
influencers king buck to storm power amanda cerny i've sent them clips i've
said what do you guys think about this this This is happening on a network you own.
Women are being like viciously. There was also a clip with King Buck and I forget who it was.
She went on there. I think she was on Zeus and she said something about Zeus

(33:36):
and he was like, oh, I don't know. I was a founder.
I don't know what goes on over there.
So he's making no money off of any of it?
I don't know. Because according to Wikipedia, he's him, Amanda Cerny,
and D Storm Power are still the owners
and founders of the network so we'd

(33:57):
love a statement as to how you feel about the various
credible assault allegations sexual assault physical
assault i mean financial abuse drug use
i went down a reddit thread and they posted you can look it up it's on the california
like government site all the lawsuits that they're in and a lot of the lawsuits

(34:17):
they They are violent or things claiming violence and mistreatment. And yeah.
All of them try to get settled outside of court.
Of course. And we do see this a lot. A lot of the girls who come out and make
these crazy claims, all of a sudden, a week or two later, it's like, oh, it never happened.

(34:38):
It feels like possibly maybe being paid off or just like all of a sudden. Or intimidated.
Well, that too, yeah. I mean, if you're thinking about pimps,
like if you know anything about sex work, like yes, sure, Pimps can exist to
like afford some level of protection.
Madams can exist to afford some level of protection.

(35:01):
But that's not the case here. What's happening here is women are being put in
a position where they are being intimidated by droves of like big fucking scary men on set.
Well, and there was also this thing with the auditions that they were going
to put this NDA out. And like, if you speak about it, you're going to get sued

(35:23):
for $1.5 million, something like that. It was something like that.
And my thing is, is like, that's why I brought up that some of the girls are
sex workers is because sometimes I dated, I had my, my ex was a sex,
one of my, one of, you know, one of them was another one questionable.
Um but you know with

(35:44):
him it was a lot of
the times something would happen and i'd be
like that's not right but there's he
or they would you know this idea of feeling scared and ashamed of what you do
exactly and being used to kind of hold that over your head and and i notice
it a lot in pimpo mentality like that's what the pimp really does to control

(36:08):
a woman because honestly Honestly, a woman could be her own pimp.
You know what I'm saying?
Really, the man is there for protection, but sometimes you're the one that she
needs to be protected. That part.
And my whole thing is I advocate for sex workers. I am currently working on
laws to help sex workers.
I fully support sex workers. What is the law that you're working on right now?

(36:31):
Well, I'm working on a law that is going to put specific protections in place
for content creator, independent content creators.
So say you work on like a porn set. So you go with like a company like Vivid.
There are all types of laws in place around like a production set like that,
that I mean, is there room for improvement? Certainly.

(36:55):
But there are laws in place that protect people on a professional set.
When people are filming OnlyFans content, a lot of the times they're going to
somebody's house and they're just filming it.
Or being flown out, you know, to another scene. Exactly. And the guy's like,
oh, I'll put you up. And the homegirl, she doesn't do the model.
And she traveled places and she's reaching out to like makeup people.

(37:18):
And she's like, I went to the guy's house. He did a bad job.
Like I, you know, wanted to confront him about it. But here I am in his house,
you know, and this is on a smaller level.
Right. So I'm working on creating a law in California and then obviously want
to eventually expand to make it a nation like a law in the United States that

(37:39):
if you're filming, if you're an independent content creator doing sex work,
there needs to be a contract written at least 24 hours prior to your shooting
that details if you're doing any impact play,
any BDSM, any violent sexual acts, any kink play,
you know, hitting, slapping, fisting, anything like in that realm.

(37:59):
It needs to be in a written contract and the contract needs to be signed at
least 24 hours before filming, before you get to that person's house.
And also I want it to be a part of the law that there is a witness in the room.
The reason that I'm so passionate about it is because I, you know,
and we can talk about this later, but basically I experienced abuse.

(38:23):
Well, Well, I experienced abuse at the hands of an ex and that ex then went
on to become or was, I guess, even prior to me dating him.
He is a serial rapist, abuser.
Yeah, he's a serial abuser. And currently at this moment, he has 48 victims

(38:44):
that we know of, which is like unfathomably horrible.
Horrible and I found
out there was a Twitter account of all these
allegations against him the Twitter account was cancel heaven pov because heaven
pov was his only fan's name the Twitter account was canceled having pov it's
still up with most of the allegations still up there the Twitter account was

(39:09):
brought to my attention and I had I had a mental breakdown down.
I mentally spiraled. It crushed and devastated me because I felt so guilty that
I had never held him accountable when I was abused.
Because maybe I could have stopped him. But, you know, that's my own shit to unpack.

(39:32):
And, like, I get that it's, like, not fair to do that myself.
But that's just a thought that I had.
But how did you deal with that? Well, I, like, honestly, like,
I had to, like, go through a grieving process.
I had to be alone. Like, I didn't want to be around people for a while.
I mean, I had PTSD from that relationship, from Bad Girls Club,

(39:53):
from, like, lots of things.
You know, I'm diagnosed with PTSD. So it triggered that immensely.
And so it was just a lot like I had to take a mental health leave from my job
that eventually when I tried to go back to my job, they didn't welcome me back.
Because how do you tell your job,
like, the reason I'm not okay and the reason I can't be at work is because my

(40:17):
ex, who I was with for seven years and had had his name tattooed on me and who
I've known since I was a teenager is a serial rapist and abuser.
Like people can't wrap their brain around that.
It's not wrap their brain around it, but also we do this thing.
I feel like with, as a society, it's like we shame the bad guy,

(40:40):
but then we kind of brush it under the rug completely.
It's uncomfortable to, to really do something about it. Right.
And you almost feel like, you know, there's a lot of victim blaming that goes
into hand or, you know, well, she asked for it.
She got her tits out. She's, you know, what were you doing with them?
For seven years exactly why were you with him

(41:00):
for seven years well until you're in an abusive relationship and
you understand like narcissism the push
the pull the the guilt the
the complete breakdown of like
your self-worth as a person without that
person you know and you'd be really surprised and
again you know we were

(41:22):
really close and i didn't know that that was
going on with you same way i was going
through literally the same thing and they have the same name crazy i know
but you do and it caused
me to you know he knew what was going on with me at after buzz he used that
to kind of be like oh my team the love bombing and i'm here for you and yeah

(41:44):
you think i am going through this thing in life like and here's this person
here they make you feel like Like, you're the only person.
And then they try to pull you away from everybody to the point you don't have control.
And so you were in this thing. And how did you pull yourself out of it?
Well, I didn't. I essentially, like, he got another girlfriend and,

(42:07):
like, discarded me, which is a common experience with narcissists.
And I'm obviously glad it happened, but it was like devastating and crushing
because we moved outside LA together.
I had no one out here besides him, you know? Like I made friends eventually.
Right, right. But when I first moved out here, I had nobody but him.

(42:27):
And coupled with the fact that like I was on Bad Girls Club and all day,
every day, I'm getting people in my inbox.
And he was there for that ride with you because he came on After Buzz and like, yeah.
He was with me on BGC9. all all three seasons
of bad girls club i did we were together and so he used like he would throw

(42:49):
bad girls club in my face a lot and like things fans would say to me in my face
a lot he would make disparaging comments about my body all the time like things like that but so.
Yeah i mean the way that i got out of it i mean physically like
he removed himself i guess well well not even

(43:09):
because I tried to break up with him and then he wanted to
stay together and then I found out he had another girlfriend so that's when
I was like I threw in the towel but it was devastating but how
I got out of it mentally like I guess
continuing to like see his behavior over the
years and like forgive yourself more so

(43:30):
how did you forgive yourself or staying in
that that relationship for that long for you know
not holding yourself accountable now you're finding out that there's 40 something
victims like how did you what like what's your way of overcoming i know you
want to work on a documentary with a lot of the victims is kind of a therapeutic

(43:51):
way for you to deal with the situation what i want my documentary to be about which i've pitched,
unsuccessfully thus far but what i want it to be about is really not about him
it's about abuse Because the thing that strikes me the most when I look back
at my abuse, I mean, I met him before my 18th birthday.
Like I've known this man since I was a literal teenager.

(44:13):
So I watched it escalate over many years, you know?
And one of the things I noticed about abusers is that the abuser doesn't just
manipulate and abuse the person they're abusing.
They abuse and manipulate everybody around them because it takes a village of
people enabling the abuser for the abuser to continue to abuse.

(44:34):
Because if no one fucks with the abuser and everybody's like,
you're a fucking weirdo, they can't continue to abuse people, really.
You know what I mean? It requires them putting themselves in situations where people trust them.
And so do I carry like shame and hurt and like guilt for staying with him as

(44:57):
long as I did? Of course I do.
But I think what helps me forgive myself is that like this is a master manipulator.
Like i didn't stand i didn't stand a
chance i do love that you say do verse did because something i talk
about with my therapist all the time is that you know you're
expected to like oh i forgive myself and
move on with life and then 10 years goes by it's like i

(45:19):
can put myself right back in that place 100 because i
experienced it i know the feeling when i saw that twitter account it was
like i was 23 again locked in my
bathroom like watching this man like take the
fucking lock off the hinges it was like i
was right back there but now you have the tools
to work through that completely and now

(45:41):
you have the voice to be able to help those and so what
i what i you know knowing you and what i really want to get across is this is
because i see you go back and forth with most of them they're idiots but your
purpose for caring and it's not oh i wanted to be on baddies you were asked
to do it in the beginning.

(46:02):
Yeah, the very beginning before it was Zeus affiliated. Right.
So it's not about that. It's more about, I think, people understanding your
life and what you've been through, which is a big, again, why I wanted you to
be here first and us to be able to have this conversation because it's so relatable.
Because when I went through what I went through, I remember watching the show

(46:23):
Dear John, which was a podcast.
Yeah. And I was horrified. I literally called so many people of my friends and
was like did you tell anyone about this I thought they made a show because I
didn't understand how bad.
How it could be a universal experience so many
people go through this and that there are fucked up people that
will go above and beyond in ways

(46:45):
that you just who the recent tisa who the fuck and honestly her tea is crazy
but i'm just looking at that like if y'all think that was crazy that part so
you know to hear your story and i when i saw you talk about it online that's
when i I immediately reached out and was like, yo,
like, I want you to feel heard. I want you to feel seen.

(47:08):
I'm grateful that you came out because I still haven't really come out and talked
about what I went through, you know, and in my mind, it feels a little different
because it's like, well, you know, in jobs, it's like, oh, two gay guys,
like, you know, it's whatever.
It's not sexual harassment if it's two guys. And like, it just people will explain away anything.

(47:28):
They really will. And so you sharing that story and me not knowing that you
experienced that, I was like, no, I'll need to reach out. And we were able to reconnect.
And then the whole stuff with Zeus started. I saw the Zeus stuff and it was
like, I saw the reaction you were getting.

(47:49):
And it's like, no, I want you to be able to share your story because I see what's happening.
I see what, you know, a bunch of girls that aren't connected to each other coming
out and saying something about a network, knowing how I've worked in production
for as long as I have, I wouldn't put it past anything.
Well, and the fact these girls come from different seasons.

(48:13):
They're not all in communication because I've checked. They don't all follow
each other. So they're not all friends.
I mean, this goes back to when one more chance.
Oh, yeah. yeah started and you know it's concerning in l in la specifically
that's what i'll speak to because i've been in it there are a lot of groups

(48:34):
clubs streaming services networks,
that give very much cult mentality oh yeah cult and that is indoctrination absolute
obedience obedience that is creating a strong social pressure like you said
like it takes a village to make when you go on these shows you they almost don't want you to think,

(48:58):
reasonably because if you think reasonably well you're not going to give us
you're not going to go on the show we can't if you're a reasonable person you're
not going on the show right you know i mean yeah oh you're gonna get love is
blind is it yeah psychologically punishment for not cooperating you know what
i mean that's a big one people don't really,
And how it can be subtle. It's not always blatant. Like physically abusive.

(49:19):
Turning off the air conditioning.
Oh, the phone doesn't work for three days because you're all getting along.
It's stuff like that, you know, that people don't wrap, they can't understand
what it's like to be in that mode mentally of like survival mode.
So, you know, to the people that sit at home and they're like,
well, these girls know what they're signing up for.

(49:43):
No, you don't. Because like I said, It's 13 episodes of three months of filming.
So you see, so say I did watch, which I didn't, but say I watched every episode
of Bad Girls Club, I still would not know what I was signing up for because
there's two months of footage that's not on the show.
You don't know the ins and outs of being on a reality television set until you experience it.

(50:07):
I don't think I can even speak to other reality TV experiences.
Like I couldn't speak to what goes on at Real World or on The Bachelorette or
on Love is Blind or wherever, because I'm not on that set. It's different everywhere.
I can speak to Bad Girls Club, though, and I can tell you that none of you would
act your be your best self in that situation because that's not what it's designed to do.

(50:32):
It's designed to bring out the worst in you. That is the point.
Right. And it's like, you know, knowing producers and production,
especially like you look at like like a bad girls club, you can tell who it
was like, well, let's kind of like, you know, Julie, if you do this.
Oh, completely. Once you know the formula and you watch a show,
I can tell immediately who's a production pawn. Oh, yeah.

(50:54):
I'm like, oh, they told you you're the favorite and now they're telling you
everything to do and they're giving you little rewards and you think you're
the special one until you get off the show and you are vilified and destroyed.
Destroyed so what's something that because you know the other craziest part
of all this honestly because i was like,

(51:16):
working at after buzz i know janisha john who's lemmy's
wife yeah and always been super
sweet very kind and i was just kind of confused with
her brand like girl why are you on this show like yeah he's way
too classy for that on like e like completely
yeah i'm just looking at like why are you on here i didn't even know she was

(51:36):
like dating this guy during after buzz times and then i'm like who is lemmy
who is this guy like he just kind of came out of nowhere right and so i like
googled and I'm looking up who he is. I saw like some of the shows he did.
You know, he worked on some shows, mostly preaches of LA and kind of stuff.
Yeah, like it wasn't giving network owner.
No. You know what I mean? It felt very like he came on the scene and then it

(52:00):
was like, I own a network.
Like if you're in the industry, you know that that doesn't happen. It's unusual.
It's very odd. Yeah. And you know, there was a guy named Mark Shabal who worked on Zeus,
who you can see that if you compare their IMDBs, like
they probably met around preaches of detroit and
mark shabal i feel like was probably brought

(52:21):
on to help zeus learn a
format for creating reality tv right and
as i went down the rabbit hole mark shabal is
dead and i was like okay well
how did he die and there's i don't
know and maybe if y'all are at home maybe someone could point this
out to me but i couldn't find an obituary

(52:43):
everything felt very swept under
the rug yeah like everything written about his
mysterious death was the day
after and then there's no like follow-up like
fine okay we don't know how he passed away like what about weeks later and all
the websites that i could find that talked about this were these weird links

(53:03):
it wasn't like the daily mail or like right whatever so that kind of raised
the flag for me on top of what the girls are talking about on top of seeing
the allegations allegations and the court cases.
And then I'm like, who is this Lemmy guy?
And I Googled who his parents were and to find out his parents are like super religious.

(53:24):
His dad like has a church in Israel and, uh.
I was like, okay, that's- Are they Jewish? I don't really, I think- They're Christian, right?
I don't know. I don't know what it is. I think they're Christian because I think
that Lemmy said his parents had Christian television networks.
So that's odd. No, no, they do, okay, they do, their bios state that they own these networks.

(53:47):
I went to a couple of them, giving very much my YouTube channel, not much going on there.
Actually, I would say I probably have a little more traffic than some of them.
Right. And maybe I just clicked, I found the wrong streaming services. I don't know, maybe.
But all that to say, my biggest kind of concern with it was your parents are super religious. Yeah.

(54:09):
Do they look at this content and they're like, we're proud of you,
son. Yeah, like what is their take on it? I would be interested to know that as well.
And especially because on his mom's website, I saw she worked with this ministry
called Prestige Ministry.
Ministry and it was with this girl
taffy dollar who is married to cree flow dollar

(54:30):
he's a big mega church preacher he was in the
news because he liked said god told him that
everyone in the church should give him money so that he can buy a million dollar
jet um and like he got backlash from that so all right so you're fucking with
me like i've never heard of him before but but and I don't really know what

(54:54):
came out of that. Oh my God, not tithe for my jet. I'm dead.
Yes, tithe for my jet. Tithe for my jet. Jesus spoke to me. Jesus wants me to have a jet.
I'm dead. You know, and maybe Jesus said, let me.
Bring some pimps and hoes onto a network. Yeah, like it's odd.
Because background. No, no, wait. So Prestige Ministry.
So Taffy Dollar is the owner of this Prestige Ministry. I also think it's really

(55:17):
funny when you go to Taffy Dollar's website.
It literally just says give. There's a button that's give. Like just give money.
Like what do you do? Who are you? Hi. Hi.
Hi. I can do nothing but respect the hustle. And same.
Same. Because you know what? At this point, you ain't even lying about what
you're doing. Oh my gosh.
Get it girl but okay okay so prestige ministries so

(55:40):
then i'm looking into i'm like okay this is okay what
do you do prestige right prestige ministry they
help sex workers so well they don't say help but they basically well they do
help they help sex workers and this is a christian organization yes and she
does say in an interview i found that you know it is very you know they they

(56:03):
don't, it's not orthodox really.
Like sometimes they'll go to strip clubs and pay for lap dances.
They won't get of the lap dance, but it's their way of being able to go in the
back room to talk to the girl and offer if they need a safe way to escape or
sometimes they'll befriend bouncers or club managers.
This is a Christian charity going to strip clubs. A Christian ministry.

(56:26):
A Christian ministry going to strip clubs. And they say to some of the bouncers
like, Like, hey, if you know any girls that are strung out or anything,
send them our way. We'll provide housing.
We provide condoms. We provide a safe space for these women.
And we want to build up their confidence.
So I'm looking at this and I'm like, okay. And again, I don't know girls.

(56:47):
Like I would support it, but it's very, very, very unusual.
I also just was looking for testimonials. I couldn't find a lot of testimonials,
which privacy-wise, maybe some girls are like, I'm not trying to be found or whatever.
For sure. But what's weird to me more so is that, you know, Lemmy's mom has
this on her website and I would think like.

(57:07):
So Lemmy's mom works with a charity.
Worked or was in some. Is affiliated in some degree with a charity that's a
Christian charity that is allegedly helping sex workers.
Right. So then that's why I brought up that a lot, you know,
people on Zeus are possibly doing sex work because I'm like, well, wait a minute.

(57:28):
It that's concerning and odd given the
allegations against lemmy like given the
allegations or that there is literal trafficking going
on at zeus and again these are allegations but we've
all heard them we've seen videos of them going to dubai which is in the middle
east we've seen videos of them at yacht parties we've seen girls on the cast

(57:52):
refer to other girls as 304s which is is the police code for a sex worker.
With all of that like and
then his parents having a charity that allegedly
is assisting sex workers that
doesn't sit right with me that's odd no it's
definitely odd what's more odd to me is that i'm like

(58:14):
i just want to know like what are y'all conversations like like
are you because my mom is very religious and like if
i she'd be watching these things when i was on
after about she would be like you know jesse you shouldn't talk
like that this god jesus she
still watches it though my mom's like i mean
my mom is horrified but so my my

(58:35):
i would love to sit down with lemmy and talk to him and and you know
see like from his perspective like do you
feel like what zeus is doing is good for the culture
like black culture whether it be black culture young culture whatever
and then how you know is
it kind of like a pk kid like i hear like you
know kids who grew up with preacher like preacher kids you know

(58:57):
they kind of are rebellious and i'm like have they just is
that kind of what it is with them and the parents are like hey he's doing what
he's doing we're gonna do what we do and maybe maybe that was what made the
mom want to be involved maybe hearing stories and saying you know what i know
that look y'all are doing what you're doing over there and but i'm gonna take
the stands because you know everything i And I found with his parents is they
seem like really good people.

(59:18):
And, you know, that would be my, as someone who grew up in a religious family.
I would, that to me is interesting.
No, that's really, really, really weird.
What that would, you know, what life is like and the kind of mindset of every
show on the network gives off very much.

(59:39):
But it's not even just giving off, Jesse. No, I mean. I mean,
it's blatant. like jocelyn's cabaret is blatantly a show for sex workers well
yeah which is to get out of sex work right and so that they can be in the cabaret bye.
Life is a cabaret and then

(01:00:01):
i don't know if you saw the new thing i'm like look
and you know who else is probably rolling is mariah carey because
the fact that poor mariah nick cannon
sir you are on a network television show impregnating
jocelyn well wait yes but like first of all i'm like you are on the mass singer
what are you going why are you on zeus and then this is the show like my thing

(01:00:25):
is like wild and out was actually entertaining no completely adverse wild i
didn't watch it i did I did. I did.
No, I'm glad one of us is. My friend has a subscription, so he logged in on
my account, so I'm tapped in.
But I was like, all right, let me see what this Bad vs. Wild is.
Cause I'm like, honestly, I watch baddies and I was just like, I can't.

(01:00:46):
I sat through the whole season. I did one review of it because.
Kids be like jesse will you talk about bad yeah of course i'm like
okay and i tried i did one part i didn't even finish with the second bad girls
club like that's the thing it's a completely different animal it's people girls
that wanted to be on exactly that's my issue with it this is their way of living

(01:01:07):
out that fantasy that but it's boys too because bad boys club was.
But okay i would love to sit down on christopher that
is another i would love to sit down with anyone from bad boys club i
would love to sit down with anyone from bad boys club and hear what was
going on because we have a pretty clear picture right
of what's going on on baddies we do

(01:01:28):
it's allegations whatever whatever whatever i have
a very clear picture of what's going on there from things i even know
in private that like i'm not going to share because it's not
my things to share but like i know stuff
we know what's going on in baddies i would love
to know what's going on a bad boys club because there are
videos of natalie nunn executive producer slash

(01:01:49):
if not in charge of
casting heavily involved with casting let's call a spade
a spade here heavily involved with casting executive producer making out with
and admitting to on camera buying gifts for a member of talent on her staff
well yeah i saw that i saw her go on live talking about a rolex and she She

(01:02:12):
was like showing a Rolex in her DIY closet.
And then I saw this thing where she was like talking about Smiley,
this girl Smiley, who, God bless Smiley.
Because to me, we can put everything off the table and just talk about Smiley
on this season of Baddies.
Like the first of all, and it's so funny because I was working on a show and

(01:02:34):
I said to them, I was like, what would happen?
Just to see what their mindset would be. I was asking one of the guys,
I was like, like what would happen if like one of the cast you know
one of them works for bachelor so i said a girl on the bachelor come
to find out she's pregnant and had had a miscarriage on the show he's
like she's going home no immediately like there's
no conversation we're not even explaining it she literally no

(01:02:56):
question you're getting sent to a hotel you're doing
your final interviews and then you're going the fuck
home it's the end of the road for you because any responsible set that's what
they would do and then after that you see okay fine you kept her on to go clubbing
and drinking and partying and then she has a seizure again so then i said to

(01:03:17):
my friend what would happen if one of these guys had a seizure i already know
what's gonna happen you're going,
here because your liability one we don't want responsibility for whatever happens
with you completely like.
Just from a legal standpoint, not even a moral standpoint. Like take the morality out of it.
I'll tell you guys a story about something very situation, but I can't talk about it right yet.

(01:03:42):
But like take the moral standpoint out of it, right?
Like, yes, it is morally wrong for an executive producer of a show,
Natalie Nunn, to pour drinks on and physically assault a woman who has just
had a miscarriage and subsequent seizure.
Like, is that morally wrong? Of course.
But more importantly it is

(01:04:04):
illegal like that is
what i think people and we
talked about quiet on set earlier right or
you know even like the diddy case or the diddy case or the
me too movement it's like people think that
people in entertainment are not human beings
worthy of humanity it's like you said earlier

(01:04:26):
it's very much you signed up for this you knew what you were signing up
for tough tough shit when you sign up for a
job do you know all the ins and outs of that job do you
know all the politics of that job do you know if your boss is an
asshole when you get hired and no you don't know
until you experience it so you should
give a shit about what's happening in
the entertainment industry because it's a job and

(01:04:49):
all of those awful things that are happening can trickle
down into to other industries and do and do
and entertainment is a perfect example it's
called television programming yes exactly programs people
to feel like this is okay or this happens so my life's okay and then you're
taking abuse in your real life because you're like well or kids are now wanting

(01:05:12):
to fight or filming their own version of baddies or bad girls club in their
homes and and fighting each other and all this.
And it's like, look, there's a time to watch it and laugh at it.
And that was my thing with like After Buzz was like.
My whole perspective was always
like, I talk from a place of whatever I'm watching is fucking crazy.

(01:05:33):
Completely. When I went on After Buzz, and I would always give the disclaimer,
anything I say on After Buzz about the Girls and Bad Girls Club is not a direct
attack on them. I'm talking about the show.
I'm talking about their characters on the show. I'm talking about the entertainment
value of the show. You know what I mean?
Would I do that now? No. know but like i

(01:05:55):
think there is a difference between talking about what's
also social media has gotten so crazy so it's almost like
a lot of this stuff like even with this season
of baddies like because again the kids will send me things
i'm like i don't even know who the fuck roly is so i'm like let me watch right
right i know who roly is all right and you know
they'll send me all this stuff that's off camera that the

(01:06:17):
girls are fighting over arguing over things they're saying in
their lives these long ass drawn out lives that you
watch because you want to understand what's not
being shown and why certain girls are fighting and
arguing or you know there was the picture of scotty
licking natalie's like ass and you're like what
am i watching what am i looking at or piecing

(01:06:39):
things together where scotty's dad's talking about oh is lemmy
gonna buy you that and it's like not the best thing
to put on live like when people are making allegations saying
that let me like you know got you
doing certain things like is sexually
assaulting and engaging in romantic
relationships and i pray i pray that

(01:07:01):
none of that is happening i really do and because i'm gonna tell you a story
too with the whole diddy thing because i truly believe the nickelodeon thing
is a distraction from the diddy case years ago i worked on set and And Diddy
was on set and his trailer was outside.
Obviously, and Cassie would show up and Cassie.

(01:07:23):
I made a comment about, I just saw some, noticed something happening and not
happening, but I just noticed something that seemed odd.
And I jokingly made a joke to someone working there.
And that was it. Just a quick little, like, oh, this is crazy.
Imagine if this was happening. Right.

(01:07:44):
I didn't see nothing. I, you know, but it was whatever the situation was,
you can feel the vibe and you just were
like maybe you know i also i also
had just gotten out of a bad relationship like i'm
projecting my own shit maybe exactly i was i made
a quick little thing observation yep yeah

(01:08:04):
rushed it off as a joke then years later cassie comes out and makes all these
statements and i just felt shook because i was just like if i noticed something
weird and again i didn't see nothing right but if i noticed is something weird like that,
if it can happen on that level, what else do you think is happening out in this world?

(01:08:29):
And with people that have power and are under this control.
And that's where it's like, and I get with Lemmy owning the company and not
wanting to come out and make a statement, fine.
At first, but it's like at this point, at this point, Natalie will be the downfall

(01:08:50):
of you because it feels like she is like this monster that's absorbing all this power.
And it's like at some point, you're going to, I mean, you posted that this smiley
girl was gonna hack that Curtis guy's phone and release his address.

(01:09:13):
Social security now do i know if
smiley did that i don't know that but she posted it
on her page but at the same time it's also like she hired
a hacker or do you think that somebody at
zeus network gave because when natalie has
that information that's what i mean it's like you're when you go on a show
you gotta fill out your address your social security that's what
i mean so like the likelihood of smiley hiring

(01:09:36):
a hacker because someone went against natalie but then
if smiley's on this season that's even
crazier to me if you bring it
for unlike lemmy's behalf right if you
bring this girl back on after she posted
this man's social security no it's
insane it's so awful then revenge porn like after

(01:10:00):
a miscarriage after all this stuff like it's
like now i have to start questioning you bro like because it's like at what
point are you gonna to hold some sort of response moral responsibility and not
even just moral let's just take the moral out of it legal responsibility like
if people don't think it's immoral okay um.

(01:10:22):
You know like it's still illegal as fuck like guys it's illegal,
Like, it's not even a matter of, like, whether you think it's right or wrong
anymore. It's fucking illegal.
Like, it's horrible what's happening to these women. There's so many,
like, again, there are so many shows that have this.

(01:10:45):
Bad Girls Club was a first of its kind, right? And it did stem this influence
and this, like, you know, it's why, like, as I get older, I can't listen to
certain music anymore because it's like, look,
like, you know, I love Nicki Minaj and all that.
But at the same time, when I see Nicki in an interview talking about,

(01:11:06):
I don't want to talk about my pussy or shaking my ass anymore because I'm a mother.
And then your next single is Super Freaky Girl.
I can lick it. And again, love Nicki Minaj.
I'm going to the tour. He's a barb. I am a barb. Don't start,
you guys. I know how you are.
But I want better. You know what I mean? I want better. Yeah,

(01:11:26):
you want better. As I get older, I see, even when I go back to After Buzz clips.
Like the things I said, the things, you know what I'm saying?
Like, it's like you grow up and you realize like, I get why I was influenced to do it.
And a part of it was, you know, especially with After Buzz, like it was,
we had the live chat, people called in.
It was like, what's the craziest thing I could say to like get people riled

(01:11:47):
up? Or my big thing is comparing, right?
I would compare like, oh, this bitch looks like this or whatever.
Like, what's the craziest thing to like? Yeah, you're trying to get views.
Like and the thing is like do
i look back at things i said on bad girls club and on after buzz and
like whatever and cringe of course like it's so cringy
would i say half the things that i said then now no and

(01:12:08):
you can't but at the same time i'm low-key like grateful because i feel like
other people just have zero self-awareness like in my experience in life like
most people are so blissfully unaware of their own faults like there's just
total blinders and like being in And entertainment.
As traumatic as it is to some degree, like just makes you very aware of the

(01:12:30):
things you need to work on because it's in your face. It doesn't go away.
You know what I mean? Like there's still clips from After Buzz that circulate.
Like there's still there's still clips from Bad Girls Club that circulate where
I'm like, this is who is this person?
Like that's a completely different person. No. And going back and watching the 13 of you.

(01:12:51):
Yeah. I was just like, it's so crazy to watch that and then know you like,
and know the conversations we've had, your thought process on people and,
you know, how things did affect you and do affect you.
What is something that could to kind of wrap this conversation up?
What is something you want listeners to take away from this conversation? Yeah.

(01:13:16):
I want people to take away from the conversation, like, that digging your heels
into your opinion and being like, well, like, okay.
So, for example, I'm speaking out against baddies and most of the response has
been overwhelmingly positive.

(01:13:36):
Like, people get that it's bad. Yes, a million percent.
But there are those people that, you know, take issue with it or don't like
that I'm speaking out about it. And I think that that stems from a place of
like taking the candy away. I'm taking something away that they like.
And what I want people to take from this conversation is like that digging your

(01:13:57):
heels into things that you believe is and and being like, well, no,
you're wrong because that's how I think. And that's uncomfortable for me to touch upon.
Or maybe it highlights something at you that you need to change and you don't like that.
You know try to have
an open mind because as uncomfortable as being

(01:14:18):
called out for things has been for me in the past and
as much as I've not liked having my behavior
picked apart it really has helped me grow and evolve
as a person tremendously it's improved my
relationships with other people because I have like
a different level of empathy because I can really try
to understand things from a different perspective but also

(01:14:40):
like being able to see people call things out and say maybe this is off or like
maybe like this should change my opinion is how we stop abuse like digging your
heels into this like opinion that you have just because is how like very.
Toxic behaviors and attitudes and all of that

(01:15:02):
continue to exist like oh that's just how
it is I neglect I completely sorry not neglect I
completely reject that's just how it is I reject that
no it's funny you say that too because I was
just having a conversation because I love housewives and I still talk about
it on the channel make sure you guys subscribe to next move swing on youtube
I still talk about it but you know I was talking about my homegirl who doesn't

(01:15:25):
watch them and there's this one season called Potomac and there's this girl
Mia on it and Carlos King had came out and was like, she's the new...
Housewife she's the future of housewives and i was just kind
of like i hate that because i don't like
that she's on the show like she's getting a divorce from her
man and then i started my home girl stopped me and she was like well jesse that's

(01:15:48):
kind of like what the show is and i was like what do you mean she was like i
mean i feel like when i do tap in with it a lot of it is girls you know marrying
men for money and then once now they get fame and they're on the show now they
go through Through this split up,
they break up their family because they can support themselves or they find the new guy.

(01:16:08):
And it's funny because even on Real Housewives of Atlanta, like you look at
like a Portia and she's about to go on Real Housewives and she's not even married.
And there's so many girls. So it's almost like Housewives has gone away from what it was.
And, you know, she was like, I mean, that's how it is. Yeah.
Well, that's just how it is. And it's like, but it doesn't have to be.
It's being produced like that. exactly and there's this

(01:16:32):
thing where now it's like you know
women are like you know oh i want to be independent i don't need my
family i don't need to do this i just want to go out and have drinks with
my friends and it's like yeah that's great and i do think don't have
a family that's great don't have kids yeah we're not
taking a break for however many months
it's perfectly great to do that i'm 35 i'm unmarried
i don't have children i love my life if you

(01:16:54):
want to have that lifestyle simply don't have children you
are causing trauma to your children whether you want to admit
it or not what you're watching on tv is not these women's real
lives that that there is a portion of it because yeah it is their real daughter
or family husband or whatever but there's also a portion that is three months
chopped down into 13 episodes or whatever and i think that that is it's hard

(01:17:19):
to have these types of conversations with like you said people who have never been.
Involved in production or been on a reality
show and you do you get attached to certain people
and it's like i get why kids i don't get
why kids should love natalie but i mean you know what i mean
like other bad girls like there are things or

(01:17:39):
people nini like all these things like i get the attachment i'm just kidding
i can see how you could like natalie i mean at the point it's like i run la
what was i run la like okay you know i mean kristin had you poured bleach on
me you know know i mean like everyone has their little moments right and i get that but to hold someone,
unaccountable that that it's you

(01:18:01):
know and that's where as me someone who's worked in
entertainment i'm getting to the point of thinking about working entertainment i'm
like is this really what i want to do do i
really want to work yeah it's cool to work for this network or
you know popular company company but
at the same time do i like what i'm doing
when it's like i'm sitting and talking to cast members

(01:18:23):
and they're going through it and it's like sorry you
know what i mean because like you know what's going on behind the scenes and
you can't fully disclose it to them no like you can be as supportive as possible
but like it goes it's not it'll affect your job exactly your job is to make
sure that they don't know certain things and so that in and of itself creates.

(01:18:47):
A power imbalance on set right because there's one watch the nickelodeon one
what is it called quiet on set quiet on set totally recommend go watch it also
reality reckoning on hulu it came out in december but it's with bethany frankel
and she talks about how you know that And I liked the interview because they were like,
so do you feel like you're, you,

(01:19:09):
you became famous off Andy and then now you're turning on him?
And she said, no, Andy became famous off us.
A hundred percent. And that's what people. Exploiting women.
That's like the thing. And that's the other thing that really irritates me about Zeus Network.
I heard a recorded phone call from, of, of Lemmy talking to Natalie.

(01:19:31):
I think Stunna Girl posted it. and in this phone
call lemmy essentially says baddies isn't
your fucking show it's my show and he's cussing at her and calling her all types
of names and just talking to her like a dog and the thing that really like got
under my skin about it is i'm like baddies is not your fucking show.

(01:19:57):
It is a ripoff of a show that we, the girls who were on Bad Girls Club,
like that's why you're even able to have this show.
Baddies wouldn't exist without Bad Girls Club.
Natalie Nunn wouldn't exist without Bad Girls Club. So for this man to have

(01:20:19):
like the audacity and the gall to sit up here and not only be abusing talent,
not only be abusing his power, not only breaking every like moral and legal
obligation that he has as the CEO of a network,
but not even have an actual like original, but not even to have a fucking original concept.
Your shit is ripped off television with awful editing, with terrible production value.

(01:20:46):
Like, please humble yourself. You're fucking delusional.
And as much as I don't like Natalie, without Natalie, he wouldn't have a fucking show either.
Because Jocelyn's cabaret and One More Chance certainly weren't fucking bringing
in the numbers like baddies.
They weren't. Yeah, and One More Chance, I think he left. He's upset.
I saw him being upset about something. Well, he's allegedly not.

(01:21:06):
Not the tea that i got was that he his show got canceled because of a leaked
phone call from christina christina did an interview she played a or not a phone
call but like an audio maybe a voice note or something she played a clip of
chance speaking negatively about zeus.

(01:21:28):
She didn't say who it was in the clip but she
said here is you know trying to and i
get it she was trying to validate her
what happened to her and like validate her argument
but i guess because she had shared that clip and you know they knew that it
was chance that because of that chance the show got canceled and the reason

(01:21:49):
i know that is because chance trashed christina on the internet which i think
is terrible because people were being abused like,
Yeah, but then I went down a Reddit rabbit hole. I didn't watch his show on
there, but I went down a Reddit rabbit hole about his show and the believable girl.
And I was just like, and Mangina. And I was just like. Oh yeah,

(01:22:09):
the transphobia on that show. What? And I grew up in the 90s.
It's like where you can. We all remember Mrs. Man from Scary Movie, okay?
And also like, just like, you know, growing up it'd be like you,
I used to say all the time, as a gay man, I'd be like, oh, that's gay.
And gay men are stupid. But it's like, it's 20, it's 2024.
Yeah, no. No, like making a girl pull her pants down to see if she has a dick

(01:22:33):
or not, like inappropriate.
Having transphobia on your network in the 2020s is legitimately insane.
OK, so I kind of want to wrap this up. So because honestly, I could talk to
you about this stuff like nonstop.
But where can everyone follow you? Where can everyone keep in contact with you?
Let the people know. They want to carry the conversation because every day I'll

(01:22:56):
be waking up like, what's Julie talking about on Twitter?
Honestly it's because people come to me and give me all
the tea like they i'm just i'm the messenger like i'm here to spread the word
so if you guys have any tea for me you can reach me at on twitter it's julie
tabouli like the middle eastern food on instagram and on tiktok which i've never

(01:23:16):
posted a tiktok but i will be shortly so follow me on there it's my first and
last name julie of charsky,
boom and then you guys can hit me up everywhere at next
mood swing me personally at dj jesse j jay
and honestly i can go
live on tiktok and maybe we could
go live if this is something you guys would want and maybe

(01:23:37):
just know down below in the comments yeah like if you guys want to get deeper
into the tea because i want to know i know y'all know way more tea than we've
even talked about like i only know i only know everything we talked about today
is stuff like in google completely like i went down a little bit of rabbit hole
but i know y'all got tt because Because especially with the auditions that just happened.
So if that's something y'all want, leave it down below. So hit that subscribe

(01:24:00):
button, that like. Thank you for watching.
And again, Julie, I appreciate you. Appreciate you. Till next week. Peace. Bye.

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