In this episode of the Nonprofit411 podcast, Sarah Barton sits down with Beth Saunders, founder and chief strategist of Beth Saunders Associates. With over 20 years of experience in the nonprofit sector, Beth shares her unique perspective on building authentic relationships between nonprofit organizations and their supporters. She discusses how nonprofits can better invest in their people and technology, the importance of understanding capacity to avoid burnout, and the value of strategic decision-making. Beth also emphasizes the importance of pausing to remember your “why” as a way to stay motivated and focused.
This episode is packed with practical advice for nonprofit leaders looking to strengthen their organizations and prevent burnout.
Show Links:
- Beth Saunders Associates Website: https://www.bethsaundersassociates.com
- Beth Saunders on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethsaunders
- Nonprofit411 Website: https://www.nonprofit411.org
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Episode Transcript
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Start your coaching journey today at Nonprofit411. 8 00:00:29,994.999 --> 00:00:30,364.999 org. 9 00:00:35,35.510204082 --> 00:00:46,495.510204082 Welcome to the Nonprofit411 podcast, the podcast where we speak with nonprofit professionals and experts to uncover strategies, share insights, and tackle the challenges you face in fundraising and sustainability. 10 00:00:47,35.509204082 --> 00:00:51,445.509704082 I'm Sarah Barton, your fundraising growth partner and the founder of Nonprofit411. 11 00:00:51,945.509204082 --> 00:00:58,505.510204082 My mission is to help you develop tailored strategies and support you as you implement them, ensuring your nonprofit thrives. 12 00:00:59,20.510204082 --> 00:01:05,260.510204082 Let's dive into today's episode and learn from the experiences and expertise of those who have been in your shoes. 13 00:01:06,531.632653061 --> 00:01:09,851.632653061 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Nonprofit411. 14 00:01:09,871.632653061 --> 00:01:13,31.631653061 I'm your host, Sarah Barton, and I'm joined today by Beth Saunders. 15 00:01:13,741.632653061 --> 00:01:16,411.632653061 Founder and chief strategist from Beth Saunders associates. 16 00:01:16,411.632653061 --> 00:01:16,961.632653061 Welcome. 17 00:01:17,481.632653061 --> 00:01:18,261.632653061 Thank you, Sarah. 18 00:01:18,271.632653061 --> 00:01:19,701.632653061 It's really fun to be here with you. 19 00:01:20,321.632653061 --> 00:01:20,751.632653061 Yes. 20 00:01:20,751.632653061 --> 00:01:22,961.631653061 I'm so excited to have a conversation with you. 21 00:01:23,431.631653061 --> 00:01:34,851.632653061 And I'm going to let you introduce yourself in a minute, but before we get started, I want to ask you my favorite question, which is what is your favorite hobby? Well, I kind of knew that was coming, so I gave it some thought. 22 00:01:36,361.632653061 --> 00:01:41,951.63165306 And I don't know if you would normally call this a hobby, but I have two things that I would mention. 23 00:01:42,181.63265306 --> 00:01:43,711.63165306 It's truly socializing. 24 00:01:43,741.63165306 --> 00:01:47,471.63265306 Meaningful connection is so important to me. 25 00:01:47,781.63365306 --> 00:02:00,786.53265306 And So one of the things that we love to do, I personally, but also with my husband, is have people over or go out and do something joyful like hear live music, you know, go to theater. 26 00:02:01,266.53265306 --> 00:02:06,656.53265306 But when we socialize at home, this is where the, I'm the mom who doesn't cook. 27 00:02:06,836.53265306 --> 00:02:09,26.53265306 And I love it when it comes out because I like to entertain. 28 00:02:09,226.53265306 --> 00:02:16,666.53265306 So I love preparing food and having people in my home and connecting meaningfully in that way. 29 00:02:16,726.53265306 --> 00:02:21,476.53265306 So it's, it's definitely something that fills my bucket and I would consider a hobby. 30 00:02:22,546.53265306 --> 00:02:23,346.53165306 I love that. 31 00:02:23,426.53265306 --> 00:02:24,16.53265306 I love that. 32 00:02:24,156.53265306 --> 00:02:30,376.53265306 One of my goals for this year is to, originally it was like to do a potluck every month at my house. 33 00:02:30,626.53265306 --> 00:02:32,756.53265306 But last week we actually had friends over. 34 00:02:32,756.53265306 --> 00:02:33,506.53265306 We just played cards. 35 00:02:33,506.53265306 --> 00:02:34,586.53265306 We didn't do the potluck, but. 36 00:02:35,41.53265306 --> 00:02:38,291.53265306 I really enjoy having people into my home. 37 00:02:38,441.53265306 --> 00:02:42,11.53265306 My home is this, the stopping ground for all of my family. 38 00:02:42,11.53265306 --> 00:02:42,391.53265306 So. 39 00:02:42,836.53265306 --> 00:02:47,246.53265306 We typically have people, especially during holidays, but I love people too. 40 00:02:47,246.53265306 --> 00:02:49,326.53265306 So yeah, yeah. 41 00:02:49,586.53265306 --> 00:02:56,926.53215306 We have a long history of it from back in my single days, having the single friend dinner group because none of us loved cooking. 42 00:02:56,926.53215306 --> 00:03:00,296.53165306 So we took turns and then as couples, we were in a dinner group. 43 00:03:00,996.53165306 --> 00:03:01,976.53165306 So maybe it's eating. 44 00:03:03,576.53265306 --> 00:03:10,646.53265306 Maybe it's just like eating good food, but doing it with other people and connecting around a meal is really really fun. 45 00:03:11,76.53265306 --> 00:03:11,416.53265306 Yeah. 46 00:03:11,426.53265306 --> 00:03:11,756.53265306 Yeah. 47 00:03:11,946.53265306 --> 00:03:12,286.53215306 Yeah. 48 00:03:12,286.53215306 --> 00:03:12,876.53265306 I like that. 49 00:03:13,606.53265306 --> 00:03:19,41.43265306 Well, would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners? Tell us a little bit about yourself, about your background and what you do. 50 00:03:19,911.53265306 --> 00:03:20,391.53265306 Sure. 51 00:03:20,401.53265306 --> 00:03:21,31.53265306 Thank you. 52 00:03:21,81.53265306 --> 00:03:31,391.53265306 Well, I'm Beth and I've been in the nonprofit space for a little over, I was about to say 20, I think a little over yeah, about 20 years. 53 00:03:31,761.53265306 --> 00:03:35,691.53265306 And I came to it though, through The corporate world. 54 00:03:35,711.53265306 --> 00:03:41,251.53265306 I spent my first 10 years in commercial banking, but what I do now, you know, I moved in. 55 00:03:41,271.53265306 --> 00:03:51,51.53365306 We can talk more about that later if you'd like not the corporate world, but the move, the move, the transition I spent the first part of my nonprofit career working in nonprofits. 56 00:03:51,266.53365306 --> 00:03:56,796.53365306 doing some project management work and really solving the business problems with technology. 57 00:03:56,806.53365306 --> 00:04:04,126.53265306 So I was able to leverage that helping nonprofits be successful with CRM or customer relationship management systems. 58 00:04:04,526.53365306 --> 00:04:19,876.53465306 But what I really, really love is helping nonprofit leadership teams, nonprofit organizations connect with their supporters and really develop those meaningful relationships so that they can make their mission happen and achieve their goals their goals of impact. 59 00:04:20,181.53465306 --> 00:04:20,491.53465306 Right. 60 00:04:20,531.53465306 --> 00:04:23,1.53465306 And, and meet their shared mutual goals. 61 00:04:23,351.53465306 --> 00:04:31,801.53465306 So I've been running this consulting practice for a bunch of years and I've worked with associates, I do some of the work on my own. 62 00:04:32,356.53465306 --> 00:04:37,296.53465306 Yeah, so rather than ramble longer, that's a really brief high level intro, I suppose. 63 00:04:38,476.53465306 --> 00:04:39,356.53465306 Yeah, so that's great. 64 00:04:39,686.53465306 --> 00:04:41,886.53465306 So it's interesting. 65 00:04:41,916.53465306 --> 00:04:54,16.53465306 I've been having conversations with other colleagues and we talk about the positive things that nonprofits can teach the corporate world, which that's a great, that's a great piece. 66 00:04:54,46.53465306 --> 00:04:55,616.53465306 And I'm probably going to ask you what you think. 67 00:04:55,961.53465306 --> 00:05:12,961.53465306 What do you think? And you know, if you can contribute to that conversation, but what from the corporate world, were you super excited to introduce them into the, your nonprofit work? Well, I. 68 00:05:13,531.53465306 --> 00:05:25,311.53465306 I was about to say not much, but with my tongue in cheek because one of, as an aside, or maybe not as an aside, a pet peeve is when I hear people say that nonprofits should run more like business. 69 00:05:25,821.53465306 --> 00:05:41,261.53365306 And I think about a lot of businesses that go bankrupt and go out of business and that, you know, are just running little people talk about corrupt executive salaries and all these things right so there is maybe some not so positive things. 70 00:05:41,446.53465306 --> 00:05:46,536.53465306 But one thing that I do think is really important is the idea of sort of investing in your people. 71 00:05:47,316.53465306 --> 00:05:50,706.53465306 And investing in your tools, the tools, right. 72 00:05:50,736.53465306 --> 00:05:52,976.53465306 And tools like air quotes tools. 73 00:05:52,986.53465306 --> 00:05:59,696.53465306 So for me my entire career, I've really thought about solving business problems using technology. 74 00:06:00,226.53465306 --> 00:06:04,236.53465306 And I firmly believe technology needs to support your process. 75 00:06:05,186.53465306 --> 00:06:08,866.53465306 Not that you should design your process the way the technology works. 76 00:06:09,396.53465306 --> 00:06:22,396.53365306 And when I was in the business world, that's what we did, right? We had bank products but I learned from my customers what they needed to do and like made sure they knew how to use the product to achieve their goals. 77 00:06:22,446.53565306 --> 00:06:23,746.53465306 And I really think that. 78 00:06:24,271.53465306 --> 00:06:34,761.53365306 Sometimes there's a we're not good enough or we can't afford that mentality that says, well, we do it this way because the database works that way. 79 00:06:34,901.53465306 --> 00:06:44,791.53365306 And I really feel like in the nonprofit space, there can be a little, a little, or a lot more confidence that their business process is. 80 00:06:45,371.53465306 --> 00:06:45,921.53465306 Good. 81 00:06:46,141.53465306 --> 00:06:47,491.53465306 If it's not fix it. 82 00:06:47,501.53465306 --> 00:06:54,101.53465306 But if your business process is working, then the technology should support that you don't have to bend to the whim of a vendor. 83 00:06:54,821.53465306 --> 00:07:01,141.53365306 So I feel like kind of getting some of that confidence that you're allowed to set the terms. 84 00:07:01,551.53465306 --> 00:07:11,41.53465306 And I don't bump into that, you know, negative mindset a whole lot, but that's definitely something that is probably more common in the for profit space. 85 00:07:11,391.53565306 --> 00:07:11,811.53565306 Right. 86 00:07:11,931.53565306 --> 00:07:13,461.53565306 I'm yeah, I should. 87 00:07:13,501.53565306 --> 00:07:17,11.53565306 I think that I think that's really interesting that you point that out. 88 00:07:17,21.53565306 --> 00:07:27,1.53465306 So I actually started my career at a university that was shifting from a DOS based CRM to a Windows based CRM. 89 00:07:27,841.53465306 --> 00:07:36,311.53565306 So I really was introduced to this, the challenges of CRM very, very early at a university. 90 00:07:36,321.53565306 --> 00:07:46,151.53565306 It's used for a lot of pieces and What I, I did learn that, like, well, I learned both sides. 91 00:07:46,271.53565306 --> 00:07:50,291.53565306 I learned that one, often it's not the technology that's the problem. 92 00:07:50,291.53565306 --> 00:07:54,81.53465306 It's actually the people, almost 100 percent of the time. 93 00:07:54,831.53565306 --> 00:07:59,701.53465306 And they're often asking the wrong questions of, about the technology. 94 00:07:59,701.53565306 --> 00:08:00,121.53565306 Right. 95 00:08:00,651.53565306 --> 00:08:07,21.53565306 Instead of asking, what does it do? You say, how do we do right. 96 00:08:07,281.53565306 --> 00:08:12,421.53565306 And that shift in the question to how do we do this? gets different answers. 97 00:08:12,691.53565306 --> 00:08:27,971.53565306 And when you do that, then you can kind of what you're saying, you can utilize the technology in a much more meaningful way because now you're, you're incorporating your current systems that are already developed. 98 00:08:27,971.53565306 --> 00:08:30,1.43565306 So you're not having to develop new systems. 99 00:08:30,291.53565306 --> 00:08:35,911.53565306 new processes and understand the new technology, you're only changing one of those at a time. 100 00:08:37,331.53565306 --> 00:08:42,61.53565306 You just hit several hot buttons for me in that, Sarah. 101 00:08:42,161.53565306 --> 00:08:50,711.53565306 So one of them is the questions people ask, either when they're looking for new systems or adopting a new system. 102 00:08:51,311.53565306 --> 00:09:01,401.53465306 And It's really not their fault, right? Like, the user of the technology knows how to ask questions based on their role. 103 00:09:02,311.53565306 --> 00:09:13,641.53565306 And what I found, and why I think I was able to help so many organizations in the early part of my career, is that the non profit teams are the business user. 104 00:09:14,201.53565306 --> 00:09:17,751.53565306 And the systems provider is the technology user. 105 00:09:18,291.53565306 --> 00:09:21,501.53565306 And often, I would hear them say the same words. 106 00:09:22,391.53565306 --> 00:09:25,761.53565306 And I could tell instantly that they understood something different. 107 00:09:26,691.53565306 --> 00:09:28,921.53565306 So there's this disconnect. 108 00:09:29,41.53565306 --> 00:09:35,91.53565306 And early in my career, I had this tagline connecting the dots and the dots could be the conversation. 109 00:09:35,131.53465306 --> 00:09:41,111.43565306 Like I'd say, no, you know, software vendor, what I believe Sarah is talking about is this. 110 00:09:41,551.53565306 --> 00:09:41,841.53565306 Right. 111 00:09:41,841.53565306 --> 00:09:43,171.53565306 And you heard this other thing. 112 00:09:43,171.53565306 --> 00:09:46,801.53565306 So let's like connect this conversation to be about the same thing. 113 00:09:47,111.53565306 --> 00:09:50,511.53465306 So I was a lot of a translator, right. 114 00:09:50,561.53565306 --> 00:10:07,151.53565306 And, and a connector in that, but sometimes the dots were actually internal in the nonprofit, in the organization itself, that like the fundraising team was speaking one language and the program team was speaking a different language and and then even getting that to connect so that they could use the CRM. 115 00:10:08,146.53565306 --> 00:10:11,826.53565306 Right to support the organization, not a department or a person. 116 00:10:11,836.53565306 --> 00:10:17,536.53565306 So I think the questions being asked are coming from an honest place. 117 00:10:18,216.53565306 --> 00:10:19,6.53565306 But you're absolutely right. 118 00:10:19,206.53565306 --> 00:10:24,516.53565306 That's why I think project management and external expertise and advice is helpful. 119 00:10:24,866.53565306 --> 00:10:27,216.53565306 To, to make sure that that language is the same. 120 00:10:27,956.53565306 --> 00:10:38,336.53565306 The other thing you said about the question when I was in that work, I'll just share this story real quick too, is what I would hear is, is we're learning the technology, right? We're learning the new system. 121 00:10:38,346.53565306 --> 00:10:50,246.53565306 And they say, well, can I do such and such, or can it, can we add this field or can we add this? And I would say, well, the answer to, can I, is almost always going to be yes. 122 00:10:51,326.53565306 --> 00:11:06,726.53465306 So let's start with what are you trying to achieve? Like why are you asking that question in the first place? Tell me a story, right? Tell me a story about when that question came up for you and then let's think about what you're trying to achieve, how we should get there. 123 00:11:07,871.53565306 --> 00:11:17,381.53465306 And then if it's data related, how are you going to use the data and who's going to be the consumer of that data? And those that's storytelling. 124 00:11:17,711.53565306 --> 00:11:19,381.53515306 I think, you know, like Brene Brown said, right. 125 00:11:19,381.53515306 --> 00:11:23,781.53565306 That data are just stories are data with a soul. 126 00:11:24,396.53665306 --> 00:11:24,676.53665306 Right. 127 00:11:24,686.53665306 --> 00:11:29,816.53665306 And so the data can tell a story, but not if you don't know what the story is before you build the system. 128 00:11:29,826.53665306 --> 00:11:33,56.53615306 So, yeah, that was, yeah, I love that example. 129 00:11:33,56.53615306 --> 00:11:39,396.53665306 And I, I do think that question can I is when it comes to matching technology is such a tricky one. 130 00:11:39,816.53565306 --> 00:11:43,566.53565306 It's also a tricky one when dealing with human resources. 131 00:11:44,256.53665306 --> 00:11:47,506.53665306 So I have, I've spent time as a manager. 132 00:11:47,526.53665306 --> 00:11:49,906.53665306 I've spent time as a director of human resources. 133 00:11:50,806.53665306 --> 00:12:09,32.2795102 And actually when I was and so when I was director of advancement, my boss would always say, Hey, Sarah, can you do this? And I was young, I was young and I have a lot of ability to adapt and learn quickly. 134 00:12:11,617.2795102 --> 00:12:13,257.31284354 Would do it. 135 00:12:13,257.31284354 --> 00:12:18,897.2795102 And he always says I'm the smartest person he knows, but it's just because I always would, he'd be like, can you do this? Yes. 136 00:12:19,357.2795102 --> 00:12:24,607.2795102 But when, when that would happen, it would take me a long time. 137 00:12:25,337.2785102 --> 00:12:27,277.2795102 I would have errors cause I'm learning it. 138 00:12:27,277.2795102 --> 00:12:27,657.2795102 Right. 139 00:12:28,67.2795102 --> 00:12:37,257.2785102 And it, the product probably could have been better if you were working with someone who actually was skilled at that. 140 00:12:37,297.2785102 --> 00:12:39,77.2785102 And I think in our nonprofits. 141 00:12:39,672.2785102 --> 00:12:50,492.2785102 So many times we ask that question, can you, and because our people don't want to disappoint and they, they, you know, it could fit within their role. 142 00:12:50,492.2785102 --> 00:12:52,142.2785102 Like maybe they're not even role creeping. 143 00:12:52,812.2785102 --> 00:12:53,812.2785102 They do it. 144 00:12:53,862.2785102 --> 00:13:08,492.2785102 And I've seen this over and over at organizations where they are spending so much time and energy achieving the answer to the can I, but not realizing that the real question that needed to be answered wasn't related. 145 00:13:08,492.2785102 --> 00:13:12,972.2785102 So maybe now they have this great report that they were able to do. 146 00:13:12,982.2785102 --> 00:13:17,972.2785102 They spent the last three solid days of their work working on it. 147 00:13:18,287.2785102 --> 00:13:22,627.2785102 And then they get so frustrated when it's not really utilized except to answer one question. 148 00:13:23,317.2785102 --> 00:13:35,47.2785102 And so, you know, that's a, that question is one that I think is something we should all be very careful about asking and really think about that source. 149 00:13:35,87.2785102 --> 00:13:42,177.2785102 Like what is the source of this story or this data need, particularly when it comes to data, cause I'm a data geek and I know you're right. 150 00:13:42,437.2785102 --> 00:13:45,867.2785102 When you say, can you, the answer often is like, sure. 151 00:13:45,877.2785102 --> 00:13:48,227.2785102 And if you ask a technology person, can I. 152 00:13:48,557.2785102 --> 00:13:56,897.2785102 Yes, but it may mean that you're not optimizing the use of your technology or not optimizing the use of your people or you're not optimizing the use of it. 153 00:13:57,977.2785102 --> 00:14:01,927.2785102 Yeah, if you ask, well, my developer friends, I love you. 154 00:14:01,957.2785102 --> 00:14:14,947.2775102 But if you ask a developer, can I, sometimes that's how you end up with these like spaghetti bowl of data systems, right? Like behind the scenes or, you know, duct tape and paperclips, because every time someone said, can I, you just added a thing. 155 00:14:15,142.2775102 --> 00:14:21,362.2775102 And every time you just add a thing, it just builds this teetering, you know, tower that is going to break someday. 156 00:14:22,32.2775102 --> 00:14:35,532.2785102 Yeah, what we're talking about, you know, really like nonprofits and, and all of the amazing people working in nonprofit, again, I really think come by some of these challenges, honestly. 157 00:14:35,787.2785102 --> 00:14:43,297.2785102 You know, the nonprofit structure is sort of set up to make you work harder, you know, maybe not work smarter and everyone kind of lives in this. 158 00:14:43,707.2785102 --> 00:14:46,387.2785102 We can't have enough scarcity kind of. 159 00:14:46,717.2775102 --> 00:14:51,257.2785102 And so the thing is, is there's tons of talent and tons of expertise out there. 160 00:14:51,497.2775102 --> 00:15:05,577.2785102 And the reason that people end up kind of just scrambling or doing the thing without you know, You know, getting away from can I is this the way the system is set up? And that's why I actually came up with map move measure. 161 00:15:05,577.2785102 --> 00:15:08,797.2785102 But one thing I think is important is to remember why. 162 00:15:09,187.2785102 --> 00:15:09,377.2785102 Right. 163 00:15:09,377.2785102 --> 00:15:28,167.2780102 Just like we said, why are you asking that question instead of can I tell me what you were trying to achieve as an organization, if, if as an organization, they can have a practice of always remembering why they're doing this mission work, right? Because the mission is the work, right? The mission is how we're going to make change. 164 00:15:28,167.2780102 --> 00:15:40,407.2780102 So the question is, what's the change you're making? That's your why you know your impact and when you remember why you might say no to doing this one other thing because it's actually not going to move you towards your impact. 165 00:15:40,407.2780102 --> 00:15:57,852.2785102 It's going to move you to some other important impact but isn't impact that you do? Yeah, being really clear on that helps also get away from doing three jobs at once, you know, or doing too many of the heads down kind of things. 166 00:15:58,302.2775102 --> 00:16:03,797.1785102 And it's hard to say no, because also the nonprofit space is full of people who really care and want to say yes. 167 00:16:04,207.2785102 --> 00:16:04,427.2785102 Right. 168 00:16:04,427.2785102 --> 00:16:07,947.2785102 They want to, they want to fix, they want to improve, they want to make life better. 169 00:16:07,967.2785102 --> 00:16:19,327.2785102 So how do you say no to something? It's hard, you know, but you can't say no because you know that what you're doing won't be meaningful and impactful if you keep doing all the other things also. 170 00:16:20,307.2785102 --> 00:16:20,607.2785102 Yeah. 171 00:16:20,607.2785102 --> 00:16:21,37.2785102 Right. 172 00:16:21,277.2785102 --> 00:16:31,587.2785102 And it's the capacity, you know, I actually, so I experienced burnout or through the pandemic and it's something that I've talked pretty openly about and had conversations about. 173 00:16:32,12.2785102 --> 00:16:42,722.2785102 But one of the words that I added to my vocabulary for me was capacity and being able to say, I don't have the capacity for that. 174 00:16:43,132.2785102 --> 00:16:46,432.2780102 And I'm sorry, I'm, that doesn't fit within the capacity that I have. 175 00:16:46,432.2780102 --> 00:16:49,542.2785102 Like those are the two ways that, that I approach that. 176 00:16:50,152.2785102 --> 00:16:59,652.2775102 And I think oftentimes, and we see it, right, we see a huge burnout or risk of burnout rate in the nonprofit sector. 177 00:17:00,207.2785102 --> 00:17:08,127.2785102 It is because we haven't had good language to talk about capacity of our people. 178 00:17:08,557.2785102 --> 00:17:15,617.2785102 And so it's something that I feel like has become, thankfully, it's being more talked about since the pandemic. 179 00:17:16,347.2785102 --> 00:17:22,507.2785102 And I'm really grateful for that because I hope that it can spare people from actually experiencing burnout. 180 00:17:22,547.2785102 --> 00:17:27,997.2785102 It's a hard road of recovery and people leave the sector they you know what we are seeing. 181 00:17:28,477.2785102 --> 00:17:30,177.2785102 I previously worked in community health. 182 00:17:30,707.2785102 --> 00:17:41,32.2785102 And what we're seeing is People leaving that sector, right? If they, whatever the sector they're in, if they experienced burnout in it, they do something completely different. 183 00:17:41,42.2785102 --> 00:17:45,102.2775102 And we lose such valuable assets in our communities. 184 00:17:45,112.2785102 --> 00:17:57,32.2785102 When that happens, perhaps it's a doctor who decides to be a barber or, you know, a Nonprofit executive who decides that they want to work at the bank cause it's consistent and it's predictable. 185 00:17:57,32.2785102 --> 00:18:13,262.2775102 And, you know, and so I think it's really important for us to have conversations about saying no, about identifying and understanding there is limited capacity and that's completely acceptable and okay. 186 00:18:13,772.2775102 --> 00:18:17,682.2775102 We are still accomplishing good. 187 00:18:18,272.2785102 --> 00:18:22,952.2785102 Within our capacity, you know, we can't solve all of the problem, but. 188 00:18:23,477.2785102 --> 00:18:27,727.2785102 The problem will still, still be there tomorrow and we'll continue to work towards the solution. 189 00:18:29,537.2785102 --> 00:18:34,887.2775102 I love that the idea of really focusing on capacity and remembering that humans have capacity. 190 00:18:35,17.2785102 --> 00:18:48,117.2785102 It's not only funding capacity, right? Like we tend to think about what we're able to accomplish with tools or budgets but people are there and nothing happens without the people and yeah. 191 00:18:48,402.2785102 --> 00:18:52,382.2785102 You've probably heard this too, but like give it your all. 192 00:18:53,2.2785102 --> 00:18:55,352.2785102 Well, your all might be 80 percent today. 193 00:18:55,912.2785102 --> 00:19:04,422.2785102 And you're all might be 60 percent one day or you're all might be, you know, like whatever the capacity you actually have as a human might not always be at 100 percent either. 194 00:19:04,602.2775102 --> 00:19:08,222.2785102 So when you give it, you're all you give it all of what you have right now. 195 00:19:08,742.2785102 --> 00:19:10,112.2785102 And that's doing your best. 196 00:19:10,392.2785102 --> 00:19:15,2.2785102 And so I would say that's something, you know, the nonprofit world can teach. 197 00:19:15,487.2785102 --> 00:19:18,127.2785102 Sort of the rest of the world is the, the human aspect. 198 00:19:18,127.2785102 --> 00:19:26,487.2785102 We really actually do care an awful lot about humans and we can sometimes forget ourselves in the caring about others. 199 00:19:26,817.2785102 --> 00:19:27,367.2785102 And you're right. 200 00:19:27,387.2775102 --> 00:19:29,87.2785102 That burnout really comes from that. 201 00:19:30,567.2775102 --> 00:19:30,977.2775102 Yeah. 202 00:19:30,997.2785102 --> 00:19:40,517.2785102 I've learned that it has to be balanced and there is a portion of my capacity that I have to reserve for. 203 00:19:40,977.2785102 --> 00:19:54,77.2775102 The self care, you know, I, I, I dunno, I have a little hate with the word self care, but it is self care you know, but there is a piece of my capacity that I can't give away. 204 00:19:54,447.2775102 --> 00:19:56,567.2775102 And we all have that, right. 205 00:19:57,747.2775102 --> 00:20:07,617.2775102 And as a mother and I am caring for, you know, aging parents, I am a business owner, I am a friend, I have all of these. 206 00:20:09,307.2775102 --> 00:20:10,657.2775102 Roles that I play. 207 00:20:11,147.2775102 --> 00:20:13,347.2775102 I can't give any one of them. 208 00:20:13,607.2775102 --> 00:20:17,157.2775102 The truth is I can't give any one of them 100 percent of my capacity. 209 00:20:18,17.2775102 --> 00:20:25,207.2775102 I actually have 100 percent of capacity and I have to choose how I divide it up. 210 00:20:25,287.2775102 --> 00:20:33,407.2775102 And if I choose incorrectly, the demands don't change on the other part of my, you know, on the other role necessarily. 211 00:20:33,707.2775102 --> 00:20:36,167.2775102 I'm the one that begins suffering. 212 00:20:36,167.2775102 --> 00:20:39,417.2785102 And so, and so that's the other word that has come into my language. 213 00:20:39,922.2785102 --> 00:20:42,642.2785102 And it's actually related. 214 00:20:42,642.2785102 --> 00:20:50,782.2785102 I, my brother adopted a little boy and he was telling me one day about this book that he's writing called the boy who suffered. 215 00:20:50,942.2785102 --> 00:20:58,52.2785102 And I was like, Oh, you know, is it poor thing that that's something that he had experience with. 216 00:20:58,482.2785102 --> 00:21:05,382.2785102 But then as I was thinking about the word suffering, our goal is to prevent suffering. 217 00:21:05,522.2785102 --> 00:21:08,702.2785102 Our goal in our sector is to prevent suffering. 218 00:21:09,17.2785102 --> 00:21:11,247.2785102 But there's also a piece of us that. 219 00:21:11,712.2785102 --> 00:21:34,252.2775102 Has to prevent some amounts of suffering for ourselves too, you know? And so like, when we think about self compassion that piece of my capacity that I have to reserve for self compassion is to prevent extreme suffering because when I suffer too long and that's what we're saying, you know, with burnout, when I suffer too long, then I have to change something. 220 00:21:34,262.2775102 --> 00:21:34,682.2775102 Right. 221 00:21:34,902.2775102 --> 00:21:35,142.2775102 Yeah. 222 00:21:36,672.2775102 --> 00:21:41,227.2775102 Well, there's that age old analogy, right? metaphor analogy oxygen mask. 223 00:21:41,667.2775102 --> 00:21:52,777.2765102 They always tell you to put your oxygen mask on first, because if you are suffering and if you can't breathe, you can't help other people, right? So self care is not selfish, you know, it's or self focused. 224 00:21:53,497.2775102 --> 00:22:06,822.2775102 You know, what you're talking about too it's I don't know, I'm sort of forever amazed that how we talk about human, like our personal relationships is really how I think that the nonprofit Organization moves through the world as well. 225 00:22:06,842.2775102 --> 00:22:11,402.2775102 Cause the way a nonprofit organization, which doesn't actually do anything, right. 226 00:22:11,402.2775102 --> 00:22:12,722.2775102 The people in the nonprofit do. 227 00:22:12,722.2775102 --> 00:22:16,622.2775102 So I always struggle with, do I talk about the organization or the leadership team or the staff? Right. 228 00:22:16,622.2775102 --> 00:22:30,762.2765102 But nonprofit superheroes, you know, we're talking about burnout and overwhelm if, if we only ever think about mission, then there's always more to do. 229 00:22:31,252.2775102 --> 00:22:45,57.2775102 Because mission is doing work, right? And if we only ever talk about our vision statement, There's always more to do also because that's so big and I talk about this a lot too is that vision is lofty and aspirational. 230 00:22:45,67.2775102 --> 00:22:49,277.2765102 Just think about those two words, right? It's lofty and aspirational. 231 00:22:49,287.2775102 --> 00:22:51,257.2775102 It doesn't feel tangible. 232 00:22:51,307.2765102 --> 00:23:06,877.2765102 And so when you create a pathway to achieve your vision, you can then decide what's the impact and now go back to your idea of capacity, right? Is within our capacity, what is the change we can and will make. 233 00:23:08,137.2775102 --> 00:23:10,737.2775102 Those are, that's the impact that moves to your vision. 234 00:23:11,127.2775102 --> 00:23:13,397.2775102 And so if, if everything is big. 235 00:23:13,757.2775102 --> 00:23:23,837.2775102 Right? Then you feel like you're carrying the weight of the world and all you can do is look down because you're so weighted down and then you're only focusing on your mission work, which, by the way, is not a bad idea. 236 00:23:23,917.2775102 --> 00:23:30,657.2775102 It's just that if it's all you're doing, you will constantly feel burdened and constantly have a ton to do. 237 00:23:30,667.2765102 --> 00:23:34,27.2775102 And you may end up doing things that don't move you toward your goals. 238 00:23:35,7.2775102 --> 00:23:43,467.2765102 So breaking your vision down to more tangible impact statements and outcomes, I think, really helps. 239 00:23:43,817.2775102 --> 00:23:46,57.2775102 lift up and reduce. 240 00:23:46,547.2775102 --> 00:23:57,547.2765102 It may sound crazy, but articulating a series of goals could help reduce burnout potential because you know exactly where you're heading, right? It's more motivating. 241 00:23:57,547.2775102 --> 00:24:00,147.2775102 So it's, it, it works personally as well. 242 00:24:00,607.2775102 --> 00:24:03,227.2775102 You know, you never just start with the huge giant goal. 243 00:24:03,587.2765102 --> 00:24:07,457.2775102 You have to figure out what do I have to achieve along the way? And it makes everything more. 244 00:24:07,687.2775102 --> 00:24:09,957.2775102 manageable, right? And measurable. 245 00:24:09,957.2775102 --> 00:24:10,437.2775102 Really. 246 00:24:10,457.2775102 --> 00:24:16,107.2775102 It really makes it so much more measurable because now, and, and I see this in like community health. 247 00:24:16,107.2775102 --> 00:24:30,987.2775102 So having come from that sector, you know, it's really hard if we're just measuring the impact we're having on hypertension by the number of Americans who have hypertension, it's really difficult to see progress. 248 00:24:31,957.2775102 --> 00:25:10,652.2765102 But when we break it down and maybe we go to a community health organization and we're looking at very specific measurements within hypertension, perhaps it's, you know, people being controlled with medication, number of people controlled without medication, you know, we have Smaller increments that we can look at and we can actually achieve and make progress towards, because now we know exactly what the outcome that we're looking for is, and it's much more reasonable, especially when we think about humans, because there's so many variables in a human. 249 00:25:11,212.2775102 --> 00:25:14,312.2765102 And so this narrows it way down. 250 00:25:14,312.2765102 --> 00:25:16,942.2765102 So I really like what you're saying about. 251 00:25:17,162.2775102 --> 00:25:21,282.2775102 You know, helping having goals doesn't make it feel loftier. 252 00:25:21,302.2775102 --> 00:25:23,412.2775102 It actually makes it feel more manageable. 253 00:25:23,452.2775102 --> 00:25:29,512.2775102 And I think it's much more measurable to see success, which builds us up and encourages us when we see. 254 00:25:29,992.2775102 --> 00:25:40,672.2775102 Right, which comes full circle back to that data and technology we started talking about, right? You need to track data in order to measure, right? If you don't track it, you can't measure it. 255 00:25:41,382.2765102 --> 00:25:45,232.2775102 But you have to know why you're doing it or you'll track it in a way that you can't actually measure it. 256 00:25:45,532.2775102 --> 00:25:47,602.2765102 So it's all just, it's all intertwined. 257 00:25:47,612.2765102 --> 00:25:56,892.2775102 You really can't have strategy and big outcomes without complete and accurate data that is structured to meet your, help you meet your goals. 258 00:25:57,22.2775102 --> 00:26:02,932.2775102 If it's just sort of all thrown in there, The way the technology told you to do it, it may not get you where you're trying to go. 259 00:26:03,192.2775102 --> 00:26:05,52.2775102 So it, it really, it's all connected. 260 00:26:05,772.2775102 --> 00:26:06,582.2775102 Yeah, it is. 261 00:26:06,582.2775102 --> 00:26:12,42.2775102 And I think it's very, I think what you do, you know, what I do is so meaningful mm-hmm. 262 00:26:12,282.2775102 --> 00:26:28,172.2775102 Because it can be such it's, it's such a blessing to have someone just come in and help see some of these things and very easily identify some of the points that we miss sometimes when we're in the middle of the. 263 00:26:28,982.2775102 --> 00:26:32,702.2775102 In the, the organization and the processes and the systems, right. 264 00:26:32,982.2775102 --> 00:26:40,422.2765102 It's really helpful for that, that third set of eyes, or, you know, the second set of eyes, depending on how many people, you know, are coming in. 265 00:26:40,422.2765102 --> 00:26:44,822.2775102 And I love it in my own business when I get other ideas. 266 00:26:44,887.3775102 --> 00:26:51,167.2775102 when you have problems from outside individuals, when them, with them saying, well, I had that problem and here's what I did. 267 00:26:51,787.2775102 --> 00:27:08,207.2775102 It's so helpful to have someone help you break it down because even when you break it down yourself, sometimes you have really still made very unachievable, goals and expectations of your own organization. 268 00:27:09,17.2775102 --> 00:27:11,357.2775102 I mean, you know, you can't see it if you're in it. 269 00:27:11,817.2775102 --> 00:27:12,67.2775102 Right. 270 00:27:12,67.2775102 --> 00:27:13,887.2775102 When you're in it, you can't see it the right way. 271 00:27:13,907.2775102 --> 00:27:23,727.2775102 And then also, I, like you, I'm sure, right? We approach our work and I never have said to somebody, a client, I've never said, I know this better than you. 272 00:27:24,387.2775102 --> 00:27:27,817.2765102 I always say, you know what you're doing way better than I do. 273 00:27:28,67.2775102 --> 00:27:28,337.2775102 Right. 274 00:27:28,367.2775102 --> 00:27:30,167.2765102 But here I know different things. 275 00:27:30,277.2775102 --> 00:27:32,727.2775102 And I've worked with many organizations. 276 00:27:32,847.2775102 --> 00:27:34,847.2775102 And right now you're inside of one. 277 00:27:34,857.2775102 --> 00:27:42,577.2775102 So like, to your point, we bring perspective and experience and a different set of expertise. 278 00:27:42,862.2775102 --> 00:27:43,142.2775102 Right. 279 00:27:43,142.2775102 --> 00:27:46,742.2775102 So I'm like, they have all the expertise, like, I know, you know, what you're doing. 280 00:27:47,772.2775102 --> 00:27:52,32.2765102 However, if you're talking to me, it's because you need someone on the outside, right. 281 00:27:52,62.2775102 --> 00:28:00,52.2775102 That can bring having worked with 20, 30, a hundred, however many other organizations and seen the same question many times. 282 00:28:00,117.3775102 --> 00:28:05,867.2775102 But also I'm on the outside and it's easier to see when you're on the outside. 283 00:28:06,167.2775102 --> 00:28:24,217.2775102 But yeah, the expertise is on the inside and the experience can come from others and just having a totally different perspective on, you know, I, I do a lot of reframing and bringing a new framework so they can think about what they're doing in a way they never have before. 284 00:28:24,587.2775102 --> 00:28:29,227.2775102 And yeah, it's, it's kind of fun, right? It's, we were talking earlier, right? We partner. 285 00:28:30,12.2775102 --> 00:28:43,962.2775102 Because we, we, in order to be successful in helping them be successful, we have to both, right, the nonprofit and us, you know, the partners and the consultants need to partner and combine our expertise. 286 00:28:44,92.2775102 --> 00:28:49,412.2765102 So it, you know, I can't do what I do without the expertise that is going on. 287 00:28:50,162.2765102 --> 00:28:51,502.2775102 I'm so in awe. 288 00:28:51,777.2775102 --> 00:28:58,997.2775102 of the amount of passion and the amount of true positive change that's happening. 289 00:28:59,147.2775102 --> 00:29:02,947.2775102 It really fills my bucket to, to sit in the nonprofit space. 290 00:29:02,947.2775102 --> 00:29:03,567.2775102 I love it. 291 00:29:04,407.2765102 --> 00:29:05,327.2765102 I love that too. 292 00:29:05,357.2775102 --> 00:29:06,917.2775102 I, and, and you're right. 293 00:29:06,957.2775102 --> 00:29:10,7.2775102 Like, I definitely can't do the work that they're doing. 294 00:29:10,277.2765102 --> 00:29:11,537.2765102 Because I've never done it. 295 00:29:11,577.2765102 --> 00:29:13,87.2765102 And they do such amazing work. 296 00:29:13,377.2765102 --> 00:29:14,397.2765102 I'm yeah. 297 00:29:14,417.2765102 --> 00:29:15,17.2765102 I'm with you. 298 00:29:15,87.2765102 --> 00:29:16,87.2765102 I'm always in awe. 299 00:29:16,137.2765102 --> 00:29:20,737.2755102 And I have not met a nonprofit yet that I was not in awe of. 300 00:29:21,767.2765102 --> 00:29:40,357.2765102 Work that they want to accomplish and are accomplishing because I, you know, and I always tell people in fundraising, when we go out to fundraise, it is helping people understand, like, did you know there's this problem? Like, because sometimes people don't even know there's that problem. 301 00:29:40,687.2755102 --> 00:29:43,197.2755102 And then it's telling them, Hey, not only. 302 00:29:43,902.2765102 --> 00:29:47,202.2765102 Is this a problem? But I know a potential solution. 303 00:29:47,212.2765102 --> 00:29:48,552.2765102 And this is what we do. 304 00:29:48,562.2765102 --> 00:29:56,142.2765102 Like we try to meet this problem or this barrier and correct it for people. 305 00:29:56,162.2765102 --> 00:30:02,392.2755102 And so people who are participating in our programs, we get to help them not have to deal with that problem anymore. 306 00:30:02,392.2765102 --> 00:30:02,602.2765102 Right. 307 00:30:03,2.2755102 --> 00:30:07,782.2765102 I mean, at the base, that's a big piece of fundraising is telling the story. 308 00:30:07,792.2765102 --> 00:30:12,942.2765102 And so, every nonprofit has that to be able to do because they're doing amazing stuff. 309 00:30:13,377.2765102 --> 00:30:13,917.2765102 Yeah. 310 00:30:14,287.2765102 --> 00:30:14,687.2765102 Yep. 311 00:30:15,37.2765102 --> 00:30:15,637.2765102 Agreed. 312 00:30:16,847.2765102 --> 00:30:24,847.2765102 Beth, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Well, what's easy is you can find me because everything is my name. 313 00:30:25,87.2765102 --> 00:30:30,237.2765102 So, on LinkedIn I definitely hang out there a lot, and I'm Beth Saunders. 314 00:30:30,547.2765102 --> 00:30:51,872.2755102 Beth Saunders Associates is the website, and there you can download a guide about this framework but those are the two places, my website and LinkedIn, and I welcome connecting with folks that are interested in that, please shoot me a message on LinkedIn because connection is That's really what I'm all about. 315 00:30:53,242.2755102 --> 00:30:53,682.2755102 Perfect. 316 00:30:54,2.2755102 --> 00:31:20,812.2755102 And then the last question is, what is one piece of advice that you would like to give any nonprofit executive or professional or supporter who may be listening to this conversation? Well, something that I started this year with I'll share is that, you know, it's, it probably always feels like there's too much and and you can feel weighed down. 317 00:31:21,322.2765102 --> 00:31:22,492.2755102 And just remember that. 318 00:31:22,777.2765102 --> 00:31:29,987.2765102 If you pause and think, I can start here, look up, look up for a minute, no matter where you are. 319 00:31:30,7.2765102 --> 00:31:33,157.2755102 If you just look up, you'll see all the people that you've impacted. 320 00:31:33,167.2765102 --> 00:31:37,737.2755102 You'll see what you were, why you started doing the work you're currently doing. 321 00:31:37,767.2755102 --> 00:31:39,257.2765102 And when you remember why. 322 00:31:39,277.3765102 --> 00:31:40,77.6749718 Make you nervous. 323 00:31:40,77.6749718 --> 00:31:41,144.7395871 And when you're nervous. 324 00:31:41,144.7395871 --> 00:31:45,412.9980487 If you can't get anything done quickly, Then your energy and your motivation will come back. 325 00:31:45,412.9980487 --> 00:31:45,946.5303564 I promise. 326 00:31:45,946.5303564 --> 00:31:47,13.5949718 So pause look up. 327 00:31:47,13.5949718 --> 00:31:48,80.6595871 And think about why. 328 00:31:48,80.6595871 --> 00:31:48,347.425741 Yeah. 329 00:31:48,347.425741 --> 00:31:49,681.2565102 I think that's great advice. 330 00:31:49,681.2565102 --> 00:31:51,548.6195871 I think that's great advice for anybody. 331 00:31:51,548.6195871 --> 00:31:52,348.9180487 Within the sector. 332 00:31:52,348.9180487 --> 00:31:53,682.7488179 Without the outside the sector. 333 00:31:53,682.7488179 --> 00:31:55,816.8780487 I've got to listen to my own advice. 334 00:31:55,816.8780487 --> 00:31:59,630.5103564 Yes, I know. 335 00:32:00,30.5093564 --> 00:32:14,600.5103564 You know, I'll just So I'm going to share with you, because I just, it came to mind, one of the things that I was actually just telling someone today is that I've learned that doing something outside of my office at lunchtime, like that makes me feel human. 336 00:32:14,610.5103564 --> 00:32:21,60.5093564 And so it's like the pausing is like, what makes you feel human? And so going outside my office for lunch is a great one. 337 00:32:21,770.5103564 --> 00:32:22,610.5103564 That is a good one. 338 00:32:24,465.5103564 --> 00:32:24,915.5103564 Yes. 339 00:32:24,925.5103564 --> 00:32:26,605.5103564 Thank you so much for this conversation. 340 00:32:26,645.5103564 --> 00:32:29,915.5103564 I've really enjoyed it and I hope our listeners really enjoy it. 341 00:32:30,375.5103564 --> 00:32:34,455.5103564 And for all of you listeners, I want to thank you for tuning in again this week. 342 00:32:34,745.5093564 --> 00:32:35,655.5093564 We value it. 343 00:32:35,665.5093564 --> 00:32:40,305.5093564 If you can like, and subscribe, or if you can share this with your colleagues, thank you and have a great week. 344 00:32:40,395.5103564 --> 00:32:40,695.5103564 Bye. 345 00:32:45,335.5103564 --> 00:32:48,295.5103564 That's a wrap for today's episode of Nonprofit411. 346 00:32:48,685.5103564 --> 00:32:55,405.5103564 I hope our discussion with nonprofit professionals and experts gave you actionable ideas to take your fundraising efforts to the next level. 347 00:32:55,905.5103564 --> 00:33:02,135.5103564 At Nonprofit411, I partner with leaders like you to develop strategies and guide you through implementation. 348 00:33:02,515.5103564 --> 00:33:04,285.5093564 Visit nonprofit411. 349 00:33:04,305.5103564 --> 00:33:07,335.5103564 org to learn more and let's take the first step together. 350 00:33:07,525.5103564 --> 00:33:08,415.5103564 See you next time. 351 00:33:08,845.5103564 --> 00:33:09,205.5103564 Bye.
Feeling the pressure of meeting your nonprofit's fundraising goals? You're not alone.
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Start your coaching journey today at Nonprofit411. 8 00:00:29,994.999 --> 00:00:30,364.999 org. 9 00:00:35,35.510204082 --> 00:00:46,495.510204082 Welcome to the Nonprofit411 podcast, the podcast where we speak with nonprofit professionals and experts to uncover strategies, share insights, and tackle the challenges you face in fundraising and sustainability. 10 00:00:47,35.509204082 --> 00:00:51,445.509704082 I'm Sarah Barton, your fundraising growth partner and the founder of Nonprofit411. 11 00:00:51,945.509204082 --> 00:00:58,505.510204082 My mission is to help you develop tailored strategies and support you as you implement them, ensuring your nonprofit thrives. 12 00:00:59,20.510204082 --> 00:01:05,260.510204082 Let's dive into today's episode and learn from the experiences and expertise of those who have been in your shoes. 13 00:01:06,531.632653061 --> 00:01:09,851.632653061 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Nonprofit411. 14 00:01:09,871.632653061 --> 00:01:13,31.631653061 I'm your host, Sarah Barton, and I'm joined today by Beth Saunders. 15 00:01:13,741.632653061 --> 00:01:16,411.632653061 Founder and chief strategist from Beth Saunders associates. 16 00:01:16,411.632653061 --> 00:01:16,961.632653061 Welcome. 17 00:01:17,481.632653061 --> 00:01:18,261.632653061 Thank you, Sarah. 18 00:01:18,271.632653061 --> 00:01:19,701.632653061 It's really fun to be here with you. 19 00:01:20,321.632653061 --> 00:01:20,751.632653061 Yes. 20 00:01:20,751.632653061 --> 00:01:22,961.631653061 I'm so excited to have a conversation with you. 21 00:01:23,431.631653061 --> 00:01:34,851.632653061 And I'm going to let you introduce yourself in a minute, but before we get started, I want to ask you my favorite question, which is what is your favorite hobby? Well, I kind of knew that was coming, so I gave it some thought. 22 00:01:36,361.632653061 --> 00:01:41,951.63165306 And I don't know if you would normally call this a hobby, but I have two things that I would mention. 23 00:01:42,181.63265306 --> 00:01:43,711.63165306 It's truly socializing. 24 00:01:43,741.63165306 --> 00:01:47,471.63265306 Meaningful connection is so important to me. 25 00:01:47,781.63365306 --> 00:02:00,786.53265306 And So one of the things that we love to do, I personally, but also with my husband, is have people over or go out and do something joyful like hear live music, you know, go to theater. 26 00:02:01,266.53265306 --> 00:02:06,656.53265306 But when we socialize at home, this is where the, I'm the mom who doesn't cook. 27 00:02:06,836.53265306 --> 00:02:09,26.53265306 And I love it when it comes out because I like to entertain. 28 00:02:09,226.53265306 --> 00:02:16,666.53265306 So I love preparing food and having people in my home and connecting meaningfully in that way. 29 00:02:16,726.53265306 --> 00:02:21,476.53265306 So it's, it's definitely something that fills my bucket and I would consider a hobby. 30 00:02:22,546.53265306 --> 00:02:23,346.53165306 I love that. 31 00:02:23,426.53265306 --> 00:02:24,16.53265306 I love that. 32 00:02:24,156.53265306 --> 00:02:30,376.53265306 One of my goals for this year is to, originally it was like to do a potluck every month at my house. 33 00:02:30,626.53265306 --> 00:02:32,756.53265306 But last week we actually had friends over. 34 00:02:32,756.53265306 --> 00:02:33,506.53265306 We just played cards. 35 00:02:33,506.53265306 --> 00:02:34,586.53265306 We didn't do the potluck, but. 36 00:02:35,41.53265306 --> 00:02:38,291.53265306 I really enjoy having people into my home. 37 00:02:38,441.53265306 --> 00:02:42,11.53265306 My home is this, the stopping ground for all of my family. 38 00:02:42,11.53265306 --> 00:02:42,391.53265306 So. 39 00:02:42,836.53265306 --> 00:02:47,246.53265306 We typically have people, especially during holidays, but I love people too. 40 00:02:47,246.53265306 --> 00:02:49,326.53265306 So yeah, yeah. 41 00:02:49,586.53265306 --> 00:02:56,926.53215306 We have a long history of it from back in my single days, having the single friend dinner group because none of us loved cooking. 42 00:02:56,926.53215306 --> 00:03:00,296.53165306 So we took turns and then as couples, we were in a dinner group. 43 00:03:00,996.53165306 --> 00:03:01,976.53165306 So maybe it's eating. 44 00:03:03,576.53265306 --> 00:03:10,646.53265306 Maybe it's just like eating good food, but doing it with other people and connecting around a meal is really really fun. 45 00:03:11,76.53265306 --> 00:03:11,416.53265306 Yeah. 46 00:03:11,426.53265306 --> 00:03:11,756.53265306 Yeah. 47 00:03:11,946.53265306 --> 00:03:12,286.53215306 Yeah. 48 00:03:12,286.53215306 --> 00:03:12,876.53265306 I like that. 49 00:03:13,606.53265306 --> 00:03:19,41.43265306 Well, would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners? Tell us a little bit about yourself, about your background and what you do. 50 00:03:19,911.53265306 --> 00:03:20,391.53265306 Sure. 51 00:03:20,401.53265306 --> 00:03:21,31.53265306 Thank you. 52 00:03:21,81.53265306 --> 00:03:31,391.53265306 Well, I'm Beth and I've been in the nonprofit space for a little over, I was about to say 20, I think a little over yeah, about 20 years. 53 00:03:31,761.53265306 --> 00:03:35,691.53265306 And I came to it though, through The corporate world. 54 00:03:35,711.53265306 --> 00:03:41,251.53265306 I spent my first 10 years in commercial banking, but what I do now, you know, I moved in. 55 00:03:41,271.53265306 --> 00:03:51,51.53365306 We can talk more about that later if you'd like not the corporate world, but the move, the move, the transition I spent the first part of my nonprofit career working in nonprofits. 56 00:03:51,266.53365306 --> 00:03:56,796.53365306 doing some project management work and really solving the business problems with technology. 57 00:03:56,806.53365306 --> 00:04:04,126.53265306 So I was able to leverage that helping nonprofits be successful with CRM or customer relationship management systems. 58 00:04:04,526.53365306 --> 00:04:19,876.53465306 But what I really, really love is helping nonprofit leadership teams, nonprofit organizations connect with their supporters and really develop those meaningful relationships so that they can make their mission happen and achieve their goals their goals of impact. 59 00:04:20,181.53465306 --> 00:04:20,491.53465306 Right. 60 00:04:20,531.53465306 --> 00:04:23,1.53465306 And, and meet their shared mutual goals. 61 00:04:23,351.53465306 --> 00:04:31,801.53465306 So I've been running this consulting practice for a bunch of years and I've worked with associates, I do some of the work on my own. 62 00:04:32,356.53465306 --> 00:04:37,296.53465306 Yeah, so rather than ramble longer, that's a really brief high level intro, I suppose. 63 00:04:38,476.53465306 --> 00:04:39,356.53465306 Yeah, so that's great. 64 00:04:39,686.53465306 --> 00:04:41,886.53465306 So it's interesting. 65 00:04:41,916.53465306 --> 00:04:54,16.53465306 I've been having conversations with other colleagues and we talk about the positive things that nonprofits can teach the corporate world, which that's a great, that's a great piece. 66 00:04:54,46.53465306 --> 00:04:55,616.53465306 And I'm probably going to ask you what you think. 67 00:04:55,961.53465306 --> 00:05:12,961.53465306 What do you think? And you know, if you can contribute to that conversation, but what from the corporate world, were you super excited to introduce them into the, your nonprofit work? Well, I. 68 00:05:13,531.53465306 --> 00:05:25,311.53465306 I was about to say not much, but with my tongue in cheek because one of, as an aside, or maybe not as an aside, a pet peeve is when I hear people say that nonprofits should run more like business. 69 00:05:25,821.53465306 --> 00:05:41,261.53365306 And I think about a lot of businesses that go bankrupt and go out of business and that, you know, are just running little people talk about corrupt executive salaries and all these things right so there is maybe some not so positive things. 70 00:05:41,446.53465306 --> 00:05:46,536.53465306 But one thing that I do think is really important is the idea of sort of investing in your people. 71 00:05:47,316.53465306 --> 00:05:50,706.53465306 And investing in your tools, the tools, right. 72 00:05:50,736.53465306 --> 00:05:52,976.53465306 And tools like air quotes tools. 73 00:05:52,986.53465306 --> 00:05:59,696.53465306 So for me my entire career, I've really thought about solving business problems using technology. 74 00:06:00,226.53465306 --> 00:06:04,236.53465306 And I firmly believe technology needs to support your process. 75 00:06:05,186.53465306 --> 00:06:08,866.53465306 Not that you should design your process the way the technology works. 76 00:06:09,396.53465306 --> 00:06:22,396.53365306 And when I was in the business world, that's what we did, right? We had bank products but I learned from my customers what they needed to do and like made sure they knew how to use the product to achieve their goals. 77 00:06:22,446.53565306 --> 00:06:23,746.53465306 And I really think that. 78 00:06:24,271.53465306 --> 00:06:34,761.53365306 Sometimes there's a we're not good enough or we can't afford that mentality that says, well, we do it this way because the database works that way. 79 00:06:34,901.53465306 --> 00:06:44,791.53365306 And I really feel like in the nonprofit space, there can be a little, a little, or a lot more confidence that their business process is. 80 00:06:45,371.53465306 --> 00:06:45,921.53465306 Good. 81 00:06:46,141.53465306 --> 00:06:47,491.53465306 If it's not fix it. 82 00:06:47,501.53465306 --> 00:06:54,101.53465306 But if your business process is working, then the technology should support that you don't have to bend to the whim of a vendor. 83 00:06:54,821.53465306 --> 00:07:01,141.53365306 So I feel like kind of getting some of that confidence that you're allowed to set the terms. 84 00:07:01,551.53465306 --> 00:07:11,41.53465306 And I don't bump into that, you know, negative mindset a whole lot, but that's definitely something that is probably more common in the for profit space. 85 00:07:11,391.53565306 --> 00:07:11,811.53565306 Right. 86 00:07:11,931.53565306 --> 00:07:13,461.53565306 I'm yeah, I should. 87 00:07:13,501.53565306 --> 00:07:17,11.53565306 I think that I think that's really interesting that you point that out. 88 00:07:17,21.53565306 --> 00:07:27,1.53465306 So I actually started my career at a university that was shifting from a DOS based CRM to a Windows based CRM. 89 00:07:27,841.53465306 --> 00:07:36,311.53565306 So I really was introduced to this, the challenges of CRM very, very early at a university. 90 00:07:36,321.53565306 --> 00:07:46,151.53565306 It's used for a lot of pieces and What I, I did learn that, like, well, I learned both sides. 91 00:07:46,271.53565306 --> 00:07:50,291.53565306 I learned that one, often it's not the technology that's the problem. 92 00:07:50,291.53565306 --> 00:07:54,81.53465306 It's actually the people, almost 100 percent of the time. 93 00:07:54,831.53565306 --> 00:07:59,701.53465306 And they're often asking the wrong questions of, about the technology. 94 00:07:59,701.53565306 --> 00:08:00,121.53565306 Right. 95 00:08:00,651.53565306 --> 00:08:07,21.53565306 Instead of asking, what does it do? You say, how do we do right. 96 00:08:07,281.53565306 --> 00:08:12,421.53565306 And that shift in the question to how do we do this? gets different answers. 97 00:08:12,691.53565306 --> 00:08:27,971.53565306 And when you do that, then you can kind of what you're saying, you can utilize the technology in a much more meaningful way because now you're, you're incorporating your current systems that are already developed. 98 00:08:27,971.53565306 --> 00:08:30,1.43565306 So you're not having to develop new systems. 99 00:08:30,291.53565306 --> 00:08:35,911.53565306 new processes and understand the new technology, you're only changing one of those at a time. 100 00:08:37,331.53565306 --> 00:08:42,61.53565306 You just hit several hot buttons for me in that, Sarah. 101 00:08:42,161.53565306 --> 00:08:50,711.53565306 So one of them is the questions people ask, either when they're looking for new systems or adopting a new system. 102 00:08:51,311.53565306 --> 00:09:01,401.53465306 And It's really not their fault, right? Like, the user of the technology knows how to ask questions based on their role. 103 00:09:02,311.53565306 --> 00:09:13,641.53565306 And what I found, and why I think I was able to help so many organizations in the early part of my career, is that the non profit teams are the business user. 104 00:09:14,201.53565306 --> 00:09:17,751.53565306 And the systems provider is the technology user. 105 00:09:18,291.53565306 --> 00:09:21,501.53565306 And often, I would hear them say the same words. 106 00:09:22,391.53565306 --> 00:09:25,761.53565306 And I could tell instantly that they understood something different. 107 00:09:26,691.53565306 --> 00:09:28,921.53565306 So there's this disconnect. 108 00:09:29,41.53565306 --> 00:09:35,91.53565306 And early in my career, I had this tagline connecting the dots and the dots could be the conversation. 109 00:09:35,131.53465306 --> 00:09:41,111.43565306 Like I'd say, no, you know, software vendor, what I believe Sarah is talking about is this. 110 00:09:41,551.53565306 --> 00:09:41,841.53565306 Right. 111 00:09:41,841.53565306 --> 00:09:43,171.53565306 And you heard this other thing. 112 00:09:43,171.53565306 --> 00:09:46,801.53565306 So let's like connect this conversation to be about the same thing. 113 00:09:47,111.53565306 --> 00:09:50,511.53465306 So I was a lot of a translator, right. 114 00:09:50,561.53565306 --> 00:10:07,151.53565306 And, and a connector in that, but sometimes the dots were actually internal in the nonprofit, in the organization itself, that like the fundraising team was speaking one language and the program team was speaking a different language and and then even getting that to connect so that they could use the CRM. 115 00:10:08,146.53565306 --> 00:10:11,826.53565306 Right to support the organization, not a department or a person. 116 00:10:11,836.53565306 --> 00:10:17,536.53565306 So I think the questions being asked are coming from an honest place. 117 00:10:18,216.53565306 --> 00:10:19,6.53565306 But you're absolutely right. 118 00:10:19,206.53565306 --> 00:10:24,516.53565306 That's why I think project management and external expertise and advice is helpful. 119 00:10:24,866.53565306 --> 00:10:27,216.53565306 To, to make sure that that language is the same. 120 00:10:27,956.53565306 --> 00:10:38,336.53565306 The other thing you said about the question when I was in that work, I'll just share this story real quick too, is what I would hear is, is we're learning the technology, right? We're learning the new system. 121 00:10:38,346.53565306 --> 00:10:50,246.53565306 And they say, well, can I do such and such, or can it, can we add this field or can we add this? And I would say, well, the answer to, can I, is almost always going to be yes. 122 00:10:51,326.53565306 --> 00:11:06,726.53465306 So let's start with what are you trying to achieve? Like why are you asking that question in the first place? Tell me a story, right? Tell me a story about when that question came up for you and then let's think about what you're trying to achieve, how we should get there. 123 00:11:07,871.53565306 --> 00:11:17,381.53465306 And then if it's data related, how are you going to use the data and who's going to be the consumer of that data? And those that's storytelling. 124 00:11:17,711.53565306 --> 00:11:19,381.53515306 I think, you know, like Brene Brown said, right. 125 00:11:19,381.53515306 --> 00:11:23,781.53565306 That data are just stories are data with a soul. 126 00:11:24,396.53665306 --> 00:11:24,676.53665306 Right. 127 00:11:24,686.53665306 --> 00:11:29,816.53665306 And so the data can tell a story, but not if you don't know what the story is before you build the system. 128 00:11:29,826.53665306 --> 00:11:33,56.53615306 So, yeah, that was, yeah, I love that example. 129 00:11:33,56.53615306 --> 00:11:39,396.53665306 And I, I do think that question can I is when it comes to matching technology is such a tricky one. 130 00:11:39,816.53565306 --> 00:11:43,566.53565306 It's also a tricky one when dealing with human resources. 131 00:11:44,256.53665306 --> 00:11:47,506.53665306 So I have, I've spent time as a manager. 132 00:11:47,526.53665306 --> 00:11:49,906.53665306 I've spent time as a director of human resources. 133 00:11:50,806.53665306 --> 00:12:09,32.2795102 And actually when I was and so when I was director of advancement, my boss would always say, Hey, Sarah, can you do this? And I was young, I was young and I have a lot of ability to adapt and learn quickly. 134 00:12:11,617.2795102 --> 00:12:13,257.31284354 Would do it. 135 00:12:13,257.31284354 --> 00:12:18,897.2795102 And he always says I'm the smartest person he knows, but it's just because I always would, he'd be like, can you do this? Yes. 136 00:12:19,357.2795102 --> 00:12:24,607.2795102 But when, when that would happen, it would take me a long time. 137 00:12:25,337.2785102 --> 00:12:27,277.2795102 I would have errors cause I'm learning it. 138 00:12:27,277.2795102 --> 00:12:27,657.2795102 Right. 139 00:12:28,67.2795102 --> 00:12:37,257.2785102 And it, the product probably could have been better if you were working with someone who actually was skilled at that. 140 00:12:37,297.2785102 --> 00:12:39,77.2785102 And I think in our nonprofits. 141 00:12:39,672.2785102 --> 00:12:50,492.2785102 So many times we ask that question, can you, and because our people don't want to disappoint and they, they, you know, it could fit within their role. 142 00:12:50,492.2785102 --> 00:12:52,142.2785102 Like maybe they're not even role creeping. 143 00:12:52,812.2785102 --> 00:12:53,812.2785102 They do it. 144 00:12:53,862.2785102 --> 00:13:08,492.2785102 And I've seen this over and over at organizations where they are spending so much time and energy achieving the answer to the can I, but not realizing that the real question that needed to be answered wasn't related. 145 00:13:08,492.2785102 --> 00:13:12,972.2785102 So maybe now they have this great report that they were able to do. 146 00:13:12,982.2785102 --> 00:13:17,972.2785102 They spent the last three solid days of their work working on it. 147 00:13:18,287.2785102 --> 00:13:22,627.2785102 And then they get so frustrated when it's not really utilized except to answer one question. 148 00:13:23,317.2785102 --> 00:13:35,47.2785102 And so, you know, that's a, that question is one that I think is something we should all be very careful about asking and really think about that source. 149 00:13:35,87.2785102 --> 00:13:42,177.2785102 Like what is the source of this story or this data need, particularly when it comes to data, cause I'm a data geek and I know you're right. 150 00:13:42,437.2785102 --> 00:13:45,867.2785102 When you say, can you, the answer often is like, sure. 151 00:13:45,877.2785102 --> 00:13:48,227.2785102 And if you ask a technology person, can I. 152 00:13:48,557.2785102 --> 00:13:56,897.2785102 Yes, but it may mean that you're not optimizing the use of your technology or not optimizing the use of your people or you're not optimizing the use of it. 153 00:13:57,977.2785102 --> 00:14:01,927.2785102 Yeah, if you ask, well, my developer friends, I love you. 154 00:14:01,957.2785102 --> 00:14:14,947.2775102 But if you ask a developer, can I, sometimes that's how you end up with these like spaghetti bowl of data systems, right? Like behind the scenes or, you know, duct tape and paperclips, because every time someone said, can I, you just added a thing. 155 00:14:15,142.2775102 --> 00:14:21,362.2775102 And every time you just add a thing, it just builds this teetering, you know, tower that is going to break someday. 156 00:14:22,32.2775102 --> 00:14:35,532.2785102 Yeah, what we're talking about, you know, really like nonprofits and, and all of the amazing people working in nonprofit, again, I really think come by some of these challenges, honestly. 157 00:14:35,787.2785102 --> 00:14:43,297.2785102 You know, the nonprofit structure is sort of set up to make you work harder, you know, maybe not work smarter and everyone kind of lives in this. 158 00:14:43,707.2785102 --> 00:14:46,387.2785102 We can't have enough scarcity kind of. 159 00:14:46,717.2775102 --> 00:14:51,257.2785102 And so the thing is, is there's tons of talent and tons of expertise out there. 160 00:14:51,497.2775102 --> 00:15:05,577.2785102 And the reason that people end up kind of just scrambling or doing the thing without you know, You know, getting away from can I is this the way the system is set up? And that's why I actually came up with map move measure. 161 00:15:05,577.2785102 --> 00:15:08,797.2785102 But one thing I think is important is to remember why. 162 00:15:09,187.2785102 --> 00:15:09,377.2785102 Right. 163 00:15:09,377.2785102 --> 00:15:28,167.2780102 Just like we said, why are you asking that question instead of can I tell me what you were trying to achieve as an organization, if, if as an organization, they can have a practice of always remembering why they're doing this mission work, right? Because the mission is the work, right? The mission is how we're going to make change. 164 00:15:28,167.2780102 --> 00:15:40,407.2780102 So the question is, what's the change you're making? That's your why you know your impact and when you remember why you might say no to doing this one other thing because it's actually not going to move you towards your impact. 165 00:15:40,407.2780102 --> 00:15:57,852.2785102 It's going to move you to some other important impact but isn't impact that you do? Yeah, being really clear on that helps also get away from doing three jobs at once, you know, or doing too many of the heads down kind of things. 166 00:15:58,302.2775102 --> 00:16:03,797.1785102 And it's hard to say no, because also the nonprofit space is full of people who really care and want to say yes. 167 00:16:04,207.2785102 --> 00:16:04,427.2785102 Right. 168 00:16:04,427.2785102 --> 00:16:07,947.2785102 They want to, they want to fix, they want to improve, they want to make life better. 169 00:16:07,967.2785102 --> 00:16:19,327.2785102 So how do you say no to something? It's hard, you know, but you can't say no because you know that what you're doing won't be meaningful and impactful if you keep doing all the other things also. 170 00:16:20,307.2785102 --> 00:16:20,607.2785102 Yeah. 171 00:16:20,607.2785102 --> 00:16:21,37.2785102 Right. 172 00:16:21,277.2785102 --> 00:16:31,587.2785102 And it's the capacity, you know, I actually, so I experienced burnout or through the pandemic and it's something that I've talked pretty openly about and had conversations about. 173 00:16:32,12.2785102 --> 00:16:42,722.2785102 But one of the words that I added to my vocabulary for me was capacity and being able to say, I don't have the capacity for that. 174 00:16:43,132.2785102 --> 00:16:46,432.2780102 And I'm sorry, I'm, that doesn't fit within the capacity that I have. 175 00:16:46,432.2780102 --> 00:16:49,542.2785102 Like those are the two ways that, that I approach that. 176 00:16:50,152.2785102 --> 00:16:59,652.2775102 And I think oftentimes, and we see it, right, we see a huge burnout or risk of burnout rate in the nonprofit sector. 177 00:17:00,207.2785102 --> 00:17:08,127.2785102 It is because we haven't had good language to talk about capacity of our people. 178 00:17:08,557.2785102 --> 00:17:15,617.2785102 And so it's something that I feel like has become, thankfully, it's being more talked about since the pandemic. 179 00:17:16,347.2785102 --> 00:17:22,507.2785102 And I'm really grateful for that because I hope that it can spare people from actually experiencing burnout. 180 00:17:22,547.2785102 --> 00:17:27,997.2785102 It's a hard road of recovery and people leave the sector they you know what we are seeing. 181 00:17:28,477.2785102 --> 00:17:30,177.2785102 I previously worked in community health. 182 00:17:30,707.2785102 --> 00:17:41,32.2785102 And what we're seeing is People leaving that sector, right? If they, whatever the sector they're in, if they experienced burnout in it, they do something completely different. 183 00:17:41,42.2785102 --> 00:17:45,102.2775102 And we lose such valuable assets in our communities. 184 00:17:45,112.2785102 --> 00:17:57,32.2785102 When that happens, perhaps it's a doctor who decides to be a barber or, you know, a Nonprofit executive who decides that they want to work at the bank cause it's consistent and it's predictable. 185 00:17:57,32.2785102 --> 00:18:13,262.2775102 And, you know, and so I think it's really important for us to have conversations about saying no, about identifying and understanding there is limited capacity and that's completely acceptable and okay. 186 00:18:13,772.2775102 --> 00:18:17,682.2775102 We are still accomplishing good. 187 00:18:18,272.2785102 --> 00:18:22,952.2785102 Within our capacity, you know, we can't solve all of the problem, but. 188 00:18:23,477.2785102 --> 00:18:27,727.2785102 The problem will still, still be there tomorrow and we'll continue to work towards the solution. 189 00:18:29,537.2785102 --> 00:18:34,887.2775102 I love that the idea of really focusing on capacity and remembering that humans have capacity. 190 00:18:35,17.2785102 --> 00:18:48,117.2785102 It's not only funding capacity, right? Like we tend to think about what we're able to accomplish with tools or budgets but people are there and nothing happens without the people and yeah. 191 00:18:48,402.2785102 --> 00:18:52,382.2785102 You've probably heard this too, but like give it your all. 192 00:18:53,2.2785102 --> 00:18:55,352.2785102 Well, your all might be 80 percent today. 193 00:18:55,912.2785102 --> 00:19:04,422.2785102 And you're all might be 60 percent one day or you're all might be, you know, like whatever the capacity you actually have as a human might not always be at 100 percent either. 194 00:19:04,602.2775102 --> 00:19:08,222.2785102 So when you give it, you're all you give it all of what you have right now. 195 00:19:08,742.2785102 --> 00:19:10,112.2785102 And that's doing your best. 196 00:19:10,392.2785102 --> 00:19:15,2.2785102 And so I would say that's something, you know, the nonprofit world can teach. 197 00:19:15,487.2785102 --> 00:19:18,127.2785102 Sort of the rest of the world is the, the human aspect. 198 00:19:18,127.2785102 --> 00:19:26,487.2785102 We really actually do care an awful lot about humans and we can sometimes forget ourselves in the caring about others. 199 00:19:26,817.2785102 --> 00:19:27,367.2785102 And you're right. 200 00:19:27,387.2775102 --> 00:19:29,87.2785102 That burnout really comes from that. 201 00:19:30,567.2775102 --> 00:19:30,977.2775102 Yeah. 202 00:19:30,997.2785102 --> 00:19:40,517.2785102 I've learned that it has to be balanced and there is a portion of my capacity that I have to reserve for. 203 00:19:40,977.2785102 --> 00:19:54,77.2775102 The self care, you know, I, I, I dunno, I have a little hate with the word self care, but it is self care you know, but there is a piece of my capacity that I can't give away. 204 00:19:54,447.2775102 --> 00:19:56,567.2775102 And we all have that, right. 205 00:19:57,747.2775102 --> 00:20:07,617.2775102 And as a mother and I am caring for, you know, aging parents, I am a business owner, I am a friend, I have all of these. 206 00:20:09,307.2775102 --> 00:20:10,657.2775102 Roles that I play. 207 00:20:11,147.2775102 --> 00:20:13,347.2775102 I can't give any one of them. 208 00:20:13,607.2775102 --> 00:20:17,157.2775102 The truth is I can't give any one of them 100 percent of my capacity. 209 00:20:18,17.2775102 --> 00:20:25,207.2775102 I actually have 100 percent of capacity and I have to choose how I divide it up. 210 00:20:25,287.2775102 --> 00:20:33,407.2775102 And if I choose incorrectly, the demands don't change on the other part of my, you know, on the other role necessarily. 211 00:20:33,707.2775102 --> 00:20:36,167.2775102 I'm the one that begins suffering. 212 00:20:36,167.2775102 --> 00:20:39,417.2785102 And so, and so that's the other word that has come into my language. 213 00:20:39,922.2785102 --> 00:20:42,642.2785102 And it's actually related. 214 00:20:42,642.2785102 --> 00:20:50,782.2785102 I, my brother adopted a little boy and he was telling me one day about this book that he's writing called the boy who suffered. 215 00:20:50,942.2785102 --> 00:20:58,52.2785102 And I was like, Oh, you know, is it poor thing that that's something that he had experience with. 216 00:20:58,482.2785102 --> 00:21:05,382.2785102 But then as I was thinking about the word suffering, our goal is to prevent suffering. 217 00:21:05,522.2785102 --> 00:21:08,702.2785102 Our goal in our sector is to prevent suffering. 218 00:21:09,17.2785102 --> 00:21:11,247.2785102 But there's also a piece of us that. 219 00:21:11,712.2785102 --> 00:21:34,252.2775102 Has to prevent some amounts of suffering for ourselves too, you know? And so like, when we think about self compassion that piece of my capacity that I have to reserve for self compassion is to prevent extreme suffering because when I suffer too long and that's what we're saying, you know, with burnout, when I suffer too long, then I have to change something. 220 00:21:34,262.2775102 --> 00:21:34,682.2775102 Right. 221 00:21:34,902.2775102 --> 00:21:35,142.2775102 Yeah. 222 00:21:36,672.2775102 --> 00:21:41,227.2775102 Well, there's that age old analogy, right? metaphor analogy oxygen mask. 223 00:21:41,667.2775102 --> 00:21:52,777.2765102 They always tell you to put your oxygen mask on first, because if you are suffering and if you can't breathe, you can't help other people, right? So self care is not selfish, you know, it's or self focused. 224 00:21:53,497.2775102 --> 00:22:06,822.2775102 You know, what you're talking about too it's I don't know, I'm sort of forever amazed that how we talk about human, like our personal relationships is really how I think that the nonprofit Organization moves through the world as well. 225 00:22:06,842.2775102 --> 00:22:11,402.2775102 Cause the way a nonprofit organization, which doesn't actually do anything, right. 226 00:22:11,402.2775102 --> 00:22:12,722.2775102 The people in the nonprofit do. 227 00:22:12,722.2775102 --> 00:22:16,622.2775102 So I always struggle with, do I talk about the organization or the leadership team or the staff? Right. 228 00:22:16,622.2775102 --> 00:22:30,762.2765102 But nonprofit superheroes, you know, we're talking about burnout and overwhelm if, if we only ever think about mission, then there's always more to do. 229 00:22:31,252.2775102 --> 00:22:45,57.2775102 Because mission is doing work, right? And if we only ever talk about our vision statement, There's always more to do also because that's so big and I talk about this a lot too is that vision is lofty and aspirational. 230 00:22:45,67.2775102 --> 00:22:49,277.2765102 Just think about those two words, right? It's lofty and aspirational. 231 00:22:49,287.2775102 --> 00:22:51,257.2775102 It doesn't feel tangible. 232 00:22:51,307.2765102 --> 00:23:06,877.2765102 And so when you create a pathway to achieve your vision, you can then decide what's the impact and now go back to your idea of capacity, right? Is within our capacity, what is the change we can and will make. 233 00:23:08,137.2775102 --> 00:23:10,737.2775102 Those are, that's the impact that moves to your vision. 234 00:23:11,127.2775102 --> 00:23:13,397.2775102 And so if, if everything is big. 235 00:23:13,757.2775102 --> 00:23:23,837.2775102 Right? Then you feel like you're carrying the weight of the world and all you can do is look down because you're so weighted down and then you're only focusing on your mission work, which, by the way, is not a bad idea. 236 00:23:23,917.2775102 --> 00:23:30,657.2775102 It's just that if it's all you're doing, you will constantly feel burdened and constantly have a ton to do. 237 00:23:30,667.2765102 --> 00:23:34,27.2775102 And you may end up doing things that don't move you toward your goals. 238 00:23:35,7.2775102 --> 00:23:43,467.2765102 So breaking your vision down to more tangible impact statements and outcomes, I think, really helps. 239 00:23:43,817.2775102 --> 00:23:46,57.2775102 lift up and reduce. 240 00:23:46,547.2775102 --> 00:23:57,547.2765102 It may sound crazy, but articulating a series of goals could help reduce burnout potential because you know exactly where you're heading, right? It's more motivating. 241 00:23:57,547.2775102 --> 00:24:00,147.2775102 So it's, it, it works personally as well. 242 00:24:00,607.2775102 --> 00:24:03,227.2775102 You know, you never just start with the huge giant goal. 243 00:24:03,587.2765102 --> 00:24:07,457.2775102 You have to figure out what do I have to achieve along the way? And it makes everything more. 244 00:24:07,687.2775102 --> 00:24:09,957.2775102 manageable, right? And measurable. 245 00:24:09,957.2775102 --> 00:24:10,437.2775102 Really. 246 00:24:10,457.2775102 --> 00:24:16,107.2775102 It really makes it so much more measurable because now, and, and I see this in like community health. 247 00:24:16,107.2775102 --> 00:24:30,987.2775102 So having come from that sector, you know, it's really hard if we're just measuring the impact we're having on hypertension by the number of Americans who have hypertension, it's really difficult to see progress. 248 00:24:31,957.2775102 --> 00:25:10,652.2765102 But when we break it down and maybe we go to a community health organization and we're looking at very specific measurements within hypertension, perhaps it's, you know, people being controlled with medication, number of people controlled without medication, you know, we have Smaller increments that we can look at and we can actually achieve and make progress towards, because now we know exactly what the outcome that we're looking for is, and it's much more reasonable, especially when we think about humans, because there's so many variables in a human. 249 00:25:11,212.2775102 --> 00:25:14,312.2765102 And so this narrows it way down. 250 00:25:14,312.2765102 --> 00:25:16,942.2765102 So I really like what you're saying about. 251 00:25:17,162.2775102 --> 00:25:21,282.2775102 You know, helping having goals doesn't make it feel loftier. 252 00:25:21,302.2775102 --> 00:25:23,412.2775102 It actually makes it feel more manageable. 253 00:25:23,452.2775102 --> 00:25:29,512.2775102 And I think it's much more measurable to see success, which builds us up and encourages us when we see. 254 00:25:29,992.2775102 --> 00:25:40,672.2775102 Right, which comes full circle back to that data and technology we started talking about, right? You need to track data in order to measure, right? If you don't track it, you can't measure it. 255 00:25:41,382.2765102 --> 00:25:45,232.2775102 But you have to know why you're doing it or you'll track it in a way that you can't actually measure it. 256 00:25:45,532.2775102 --> 00:25:47,602.2765102 So it's all just, it's all intertwined. 257 00:25:47,612.2765102 --> 00:25:56,892.2775102 You really can't have strategy and big outcomes without complete and accurate data that is structured to meet your, help you meet your goals. 258 00:25:57,22.2775102 --> 00:26:02,932.2775102 If it's just sort of all thrown in there, The way the technology told you to do it, it may not get you where you're trying to go. 259 00:26:03,192.2775102 --> 00:26:05,52.2775102 So it, it really, it's all connected. 260 00:26:05,772.2775102 --> 00:26:06,582.2775102 Yeah, it is. 261 00:26:06,582.2775102 --> 00:26:12,42.2775102 And I think it's very, I think what you do, you know, what I do is so meaningful mm-hmm. 262 00:26:12,282.2775102 --> 00:26:28,172.2775102 Because it can be such it's, it's such a blessing to have someone just come in and help see some of these things and very easily identify some of the points that we miss sometimes when we're in the middle of the. 263 00:26:28,982.2775102 --> 00:26:32,702.2775102 In the, the organization and the processes and the systems, right. 264 00:26:32,982.2775102 --> 00:26:40,422.2765102 It's really helpful for that, that third set of eyes, or, you know, the second set of eyes, depending on how many people, you know, are coming in. 265 00:26:40,422.2765102 --> 00:26:44,822.2775102 And I love it in my own business when I get other ideas. 266 00:26:44,887.3775102 --> 00:26:51,167.2775102 when you have problems from outside individuals, when them, with them saying, well, I had that problem and here's what I did. 267 00:26:51,787.2775102 --> 00:27:08,207.2775102 It's so helpful to have someone help you break it down because even when you break it down yourself, sometimes you have really still made very unachievable, goals and expectations of your own organization. 268 00:27:09,17.2775102 --> 00:27:11,357.2775102 I mean, you know, you can't see it if you're in it. 269 00:27:11,817.2775102 --> 00:27:12,67.2775102 Right. 270 00:27:12,67.2775102 --> 00:27:13,887.2775102 When you're in it, you can't see it the right way. 271 00:27:13,907.2775102 --> 00:27:23,727.2775102 And then also, I, like you, I'm sure, right? We approach our work and I never have said to somebody, a client, I've never said, I know this better than you. 272 00:27:24,387.2775102 --> 00:27:27,817.2765102 I always say, you know what you're doing way better than I do. 273 00:27:28,67.2775102 --> 00:27:28,337.2775102 Right. 274 00:27:28,367.2775102 --> 00:27:30,167.2765102 But here I know different things. 275 00:27:30,277.2775102 --> 00:27:32,727.2775102 And I've worked with many organizations. 276 00:27:32,847.2775102 --> 00:27:34,847.2775102 And right now you're inside of one. 277 00:27:34,857.2775102 --> 00:27:42,577.2775102 So like, to your point, we bring perspective and experience and a different set of expertise. 278 00:27:42,862.2775102 --> 00:27:43,142.2775102 Right. 279 00:27:43,142.2775102 --> 00:27:46,742.2775102 So I'm like, they have all the expertise, like, I know, you know, what you're doing. 280 00:27:47,772.2775102 --> 00:27:52,32.2765102 However, if you're talking to me, it's because you need someone on the outside, right. 281 00:27:52,62.2775102 --> 00:28:00,52.2775102 That can bring having worked with 20, 30, a hundred, however many other organizations and seen the same question many times. 282 00:28:00,117.3775102 --> 00:28:05,867.2775102 But also I'm on the outside and it's easier to see when you're on the outside. 283 00:28:06,167.2775102 --> 00:28:24,217.2775102 But yeah, the expertise is on the inside and the experience can come from others and just having a totally different perspective on, you know, I, I do a lot of reframing and bringing a new framework so they can think about what they're doing in a way they never have before. 284 00:28:24,587.2775102 --> 00:28:29,227.2775102 And yeah, it's, it's kind of fun, right? It's, we were talking earlier, right? We partner. 285 00:28:30,12.2775102 --> 00:28:43,962.2775102 Because we, we, in order to be successful in helping them be successful, we have to both, right, the nonprofit and us, you know, the partners and the consultants need to partner and combine our expertise. 286 00:28:44,92.2775102 --> 00:28:49,412.2765102 So it, you know, I can't do what I do without the expertise that is going on. 287 00:28:50,162.2765102 --> 00:28:51,502.2775102 I'm so in awe. 288 00:28:51,777.2775102 --> 00:28:58,997.2775102 of the amount of passion and the amount of true positive change that's happening. 289 00:28:59,147.2775102 --> 00:29:02,947.2775102 It really fills my bucket to, to sit in the nonprofit space. 290 00:29:02,947.2775102 --> 00:29:03,567.2775102 I love it. 291 00:29:04,407.2765102 --> 00:29:05,327.2765102 I love that too. 292 00:29:05,357.2775102 --> 00:29:06,917.2775102 I, and, and you're right. 293 00:29:06,957.2775102 --> 00:29:10,7.2775102 Like, I definitely can't do the work that they're doing. 294 00:29:10,277.2765102 --> 00:29:11,537.2765102 Because I've never done it. 295 00:29:11,577.2765102 --> 00:29:13,87.2765102 And they do such amazing work. 296 00:29:13,377.2765102 --> 00:29:14,397.2765102 I'm yeah. 297 00:29:14,417.2765102 --> 00:29:15,17.2765102 I'm with you. 298 00:29:15,87.2765102 --> 00:29:16,87.2765102 I'm always in awe. 299 00:29:16,137.2765102 --> 00:29:20,737.2755102 And I have not met a nonprofit yet that I was not in awe of. 300 00:29:21,767.2765102 --> 00:29:40,357.2765102 Work that they want to accomplish and are accomplishing because I, you know, and I always tell people in fundraising, when we go out to fundraise, it is helping people understand, like, did you know there's this problem? Like, because sometimes people don't even know there's that problem. 301 00:29:40,687.2755102 --> 00:29:43,197.2755102 And then it's telling them, Hey, not only. 302 00:29:43,902.2765102 --> 00:29:47,202.2765102 Is this a problem? But I know a potential solution. 303 00:29:47,212.2765102 --> 00:29:48,552.2765102 And this is what we do. 304 00:29:48,562.2765102 --> 00:29:56,142.2765102 Like we try to meet this problem or this barrier and correct it for people. 305 00:29:56,162.2765102 --> 00:30:02,392.2755102 And so people who are participating in our programs, we get to help them not have to deal with that problem anymore. 306 00:30:02,392.2765102 --> 00:30:02,602.2765102 Right. 307 00:30:03,2.2755102 --> 00:30:07,782.2765102 I mean, at the base, that's a big piece of fundraising is telling the story. 308 00:30:07,792.2765102 --> 00:30:12,942.2765102 And so, every nonprofit has that to be able to do because they're doing amazing stuff. 309 00:30:13,377.2765102 --> 00:30:13,917.2765102 Yeah. 310 00:30:14,287.2765102 --> 00:30:14,687.2765102 Yep. 311 00:30:15,37.2765102 --> 00:30:15,637.2765102 Agreed. 312 00:30:16,847.2765102 --> 00:30:24,847.2765102 Beth, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Well, what's easy is you can find me because everything is my name. 313 00:30:25,87.2765102 --> 00:30:30,237.2765102 So, on LinkedIn I definitely hang out there a lot, and I'm Beth Saunders. 314 00:30:30,547.2765102 --> 00:30:51,872.2755102 Beth Saunders Associates is the website, and there you can download a guide about this framework but those are the two places, my website and LinkedIn, and I welcome connecting with folks that are interested in that, please shoot me a message on LinkedIn because connection is That's really what I'm all about. 315 00:30:53,242.2755102 --> 00:30:53,682.2755102 Perfect. 316 00:30:54,2.2755102 --> 00:31:20,812.2755102 And then the last question is, what is one piece of advice that you would like to give any nonprofit executive or professional or supporter who may be listening to this conversation? Well, something that I started this year with I'll share is that, you know, it's, it probably always feels like there's too much and and you can feel weighed down. 317 00:31:21,322.2765102 --> 00:31:22,492.2755102 And just remember that. 318 00:31:22,777.2765102 --> 00:31:29,987.2765102 If you pause and think, I can start here, look up, look up for a minute, no matter where you are. 319 00:31:30,7.2765102 --> 00:31:33,157.2755102 If you just look up, you'll see all the people that you've impacted. 320 00:31:33,167.2765102 --> 00:31:37,737.2755102 You'll see what you were, why you started doing the work you're currently doing. 321 00:31:37,767.2755102 --> 00:31:39,257.2765102 And when you remember why. 322 00:31:39,277.3765102 --> 00:31:40,77.6749718 Make you nervous. 323 00:31:40,77.6749718 --> 00:31:41,144.7395871 And when you're nervous. 324 00:31:41,144.7395871 --> 00:31:45,412.9980487 If you can't get anything done quickly, Then your energy and your motivation will come back. 325 00:31:45,412.9980487 --> 00:31:45,946.5303564 I promise. 326 00:31:45,946.5303564 --> 00:31:47,13.5949718 So pause look up. 327 00:31:47,13.5949718 --> 00:31:48,80.6595871 And think about why. 328 00:31:48,80.6595871 --> 00:31:48,347.425741 Yeah. 329 00:31:48,347.425741 --> 00:31:49,681.2565102 I think that's great advice. 330 00:31:49,681.2565102 --> 00:31:51,548.6195871 I think that's great advice for anybody. 331 00:31:51,548.6195871 --> 00:31:52,348.9180487 Within the sector. 332 00:31:52,348.9180487 --> 00:31:53,682.7488179 Without the outside the sector. 333 00:31:53,682.7488179 --> 00:31:55,816.8780487 I've got to listen to my own advice. 334 00:31:55,816.8780487 --> 00:31:59,630.5103564 Yes, I know. 335 00:32:00,30.5093564 --> 00:32:14,600.5103564 You know, I'll just So I'm going to share with you, because I just, it came to mind, one of the things that I was actually just telling someone today is that I've learned that doing something outside of my office at lunchtime, like that makes me feel human. 336 00:32:14,610.5103564 --> 00:32:21,60.5093564 And so it's like the pausing is like, what makes you feel human? And so going outside my office for lunch is a great one. 337 00:32:21,770.5103564 --> 00:32:22,610.5103564 That is a good one. 338 00:32:24,465.5103564 --> 00:32:24,915.5103564 Yes. 339 00:32:24,925.5103564 --> 00:32:26,605.5103564 Thank you so much for this conversation. 340 00:32:26,645.5103564 --> 00:32:29,915.5103564 I've really enjoyed it and I hope our listeners really enjoy it. 341 00:32:30,375.5103564 --> 00:32:34,455.5103564 And for all of you listeners, I want to thank you for tuning in again this week. 342 00:32:34,745.5093564 --> 00:32:35,655.5093564 We value it. 343 00:32:35,665.5093564 --> 00:32:40,305.5093564 If you can like, and subscribe, or if you can share this with your colleagues, thank you and have a great week. 344 00:32:40,395.5103564 --> 00:32:40,695.5103564 Bye. 345 00:32:45,335.5103564 --> 00:32:48,295.5103564 That's a wrap for today's episode of Nonprofit411. 346 00:32:48,685.5103564 --> 00:32:55,405.5103564 I hope our discussion with nonprofit professionals and experts gave you actionable ideas to take your fundraising efforts to the next level. 347 00:32:55,905.5103564 --> 00:33:02,135.5103564 At Nonprofit411, I partner with leaders like you to develop strategies and guide you through implementation. 348 00:33:02,515.5103564 --> 00:33:04,285.5093564 Visit nonprofit411. 349 00:33:04,305.5103564 --> 00:33:07,335.5103564 org to learn more and let's take the first step together. 350 00:33:07,525.5103564 --> 00:33:08,415.5103564 See you next time. 351 00:33:08,845.5103564 --> 00:33:09,205.5103564 Bye.
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