Kel Haney on The Power of Curiosity in Fundraising | Nonprofit411 Podcast

In this episode, Sarah Barton is joined by Kel Haney, founder and CEO of Kel Haney Consulting. They dive into the power of curiosity in fundraising, the importance of personal connections with donors, and how to build relationships that go beyond transactions. Kel shares her methodology for mid-level donor engagement and explains why phone calls, though intimidating for some, can build stronger, more meaningful relationships.

Key Takeaways:

• • The importance of curiosity in donor relationships: Fundraising isn't about selling but building genuine connections with community members.

  • Phone calls as an effective tool for engaging mid-level donors: Personal connections and voicemails can foster trust and increase donor retention.

  • Systems and strategies that work: How having the right tools in place can make a huge difference in donor engagement and nonprofit growth.

Show Links:

Kel Haney Website: https://www.kelhaney.com/

Kel Haney on LInkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kel-haney/

Nonprofit411: www.nonprofit411.org

GiveSuite Affiliate Link: https://sales.givesuite.com/get-a-demo?am_id=sarah7593

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Nonprofit411, where we dive into resources and strategies that help nonprofits not just survive, but truly thrive.
I'm Sarah Barton, your host and fundraising advocate.
.346938776Each episode we bring you inspiring conversations with experts in fundraising, sustainability, and best practices to equip you with the tools and confidence you need to make a real impact. 4 00:00:22,557.346938776 --> 00:00:28,497.346938776 Today's episode of Nonprofit411 is sponsored by GiveSuite, and I'm really excited to share about them. 5 00:00:29,367.346938776 --> 00:00:39,717.346938776 I work with a lot of small nonprofit teams, and I often see incredible people doing really meaningful work using five or six different systems that don't talk to each other. 6 00:00:40,227.346938776 --> 00:00:47,367.346938776 They may have donor forums on one platform, an email platform, spreadsheetsto track donations. 7 00:00:47,922.346938776 --> 00:00:52,752.346938776 They often don't have tech support to call when something breaks, and it's really hard. 8 00:00:53,232.346938776 --> 00:00:55,422.346938776 That's why I'm so excited about Give Suite. 9 00:00:55,932.346938776 --> 00:01:03,72.346938776 I use a similar version to run my own work, and their nonprofit version really pulls everything together. 10 00:01:03,642.346938776 --> 00:01:11,682.346938776 Fundraising, marketing, supporter, communications, automations, giving pages all in one place. 11 00:01:12,462.346938776 --> 00:01:17,112.346938776 If your team is ready to invest in something that actually makes your job easier, take a look. 12 00:01:17,652.346938776 --> 00:01:25,482.346938776 I'm an affiliate because I believe in what this platform can do, and I've seen how much of a difference it can make for small teams who just need systems that work. 13 00:01:26,52.346938776 --> 00:01:29,862.346938776 You'll find the link in the show notes, and now let's get into today's conversation. 14 00:01:30,862.346938776 --> 00:01:33,982.346938776 Hello and welcome to the Nonprofit411 this week. 15 00:01:33,982.346938776 --> 00:01:35,602.346938776 We are so excited to have you. 16 00:01:35,602.346938776 --> 00:01:42,232.34693878 I, I'm excited to welcome my guest, ke Haney from founder and CEO of Ke Haney Consulting. 17 00:01:42,322.34693878 --> 00:01:42,742.34693878 Welcome. 18 00:01:43,252.34693878 --> 00:01:43,912.34693878 Thank you Sarah. 19 00:01:43,912.34693878 --> 00:01:45,442.34693878 I'm so excited to be here with you. 20 00:01:45,772.34693878 --> 00:01:46,522.34693878 Really appreciate it. 21 00:01:47,2.34693878 --> 00:01:47,482.34693878 Yes. 22 00:01:47,482.34693878 --> 00:01:50,152.34693878 I am so excited to have you on. 23 00:01:50,242.34693878 --> 00:01:53,332.34693878 So you do the five minute fundraising ask. 24 00:01:53,337.34693878 --> 00:01:53,537.34693878 Correct. 25 00:01:53,557.34693878 --> 00:01:56,2.34693878 And you encourage people to use the phone? I do. 26 00:01:56,62.34693878 --> 00:01:56,662.34693878 That's right. 27 00:01:56,722.34693878 --> 00:01:59,152.34693878 So that's all very intriguing. 28 00:01:59,152.34693878 --> 00:02:07,42.34693878 But before we start talking about that, let me ask you my favorite question, which is, what is your favorite hobby? I'd say my favorite hobby is probably yoga. 29 00:02:07,492.34693878 --> 00:02:16,362.34693878 And so, my business is based out of New York City, but my husband and I bought a farmhouse fixer upper on a little island off the coast of Portland, Maine. 30 00:02:16,722.34693878 --> 00:02:20,232.34693878 So every day we actually do yoga. 31 00:02:20,362.34693878 --> 00:02:30,142.34693878 And it's a virtual class and it is like actually a class that is happening in Portland, Maine at the same time that we are on our island, and it's at five 30. 32 00:02:30,732.34693878 --> 00:02:35,862.34693878 Mondays through Thursdays, and it is just like a great moment that I'm like, okay, that is a moment I'm stopping. 33 00:02:36,12.34693878 --> 00:02:48,282.34693878 Sadly, sometimes I do go back to work, but I'm like, that's the end of meetings for the day at five 30, and my husband and I, he's an actor and a grant writer and strategist, and we do that together and I love. 34 00:02:48,527.34693878 --> 00:02:49,187.34693878 I love that. 35 00:02:49,337.34693878 --> 00:02:53,807.34693878 So I would say like, that's probably like my most consistent hobby. 36 00:02:53,807.34693878 --> 00:02:57,347.34693878 I also really love food and really love travel. 37 00:02:57,347.34693878 --> 00:03:00,727.34693878 Those are also things I'm really excited about as well. 38 00:03:00,727.34693878 --> 00:03:03,727.34693878 But I would say like yoga is part of almost every day for me. 39 00:03:04,507.34693878 --> 00:03:05,167.34693878 Well, that's awesome. 40 00:03:05,407.34693878 --> 00:03:11,407.34693878 So I always say that yoga's my spirit exercise, but it isn't something that I consistently get in uhhuh. 41 00:03:11,607.34693878 --> 00:03:16,57.34693878 I, I've been more consistently getting in exercise Good, but not always yoga. 42 00:03:16,897.34693878 --> 00:03:17,107.34693878 Yeah. 43 00:03:17,107.34693878 --> 00:03:17,108.34693878 Yeah. 44 00:03:18,207.34693878 --> 00:03:19,77.34693878 It helps me. 45 00:03:19,77.34693878 --> 00:03:22,197.34693878 You come out of yoga, it's such a different state of exercise. 46 00:03:22,197.34693878 --> 00:03:25,257.34693878 You come outta yoga, feeling good and relaxed. 47 00:03:25,467.34693878 --> 00:03:25,587.34693878 Yeah. 48 00:03:25,857.34693878 --> 00:03:30,897.34693878 You know, when I come out of regular exercise, sometimes I feel like spent and kind of tired. 49 00:03:32,277.34693878 --> 00:03:32,367.34693878 Mm-hmm. 50 00:03:32,367.34693878 --> 00:03:32,697.34693878 Yeah. 51 00:03:32,727.34693878 --> 00:03:33,88.34693878 Yeah, yeah. 52 00:03:33,507.34693878 --> 00:03:33,747.34693878 Yeah. 53 00:03:33,747.34693878 --> 00:03:38,97.34693878 And there are like all sorts of different kind of yogas that can make you feel all sorts of ways. 54 00:03:38,97.34693878 --> 00:03:41,997.34693878 But yeah, I, I love a, I love a yoga high and you'll get a kick out of this. 55 00:03:42,327.34693878 --> 00:03:44,67.34693878 I actually talk about yoga. 56 00:03:44,242.34693878 --> 00:03:54,82.34693878 A lot in my coaching of clients and the idea that I want them to be talking to their community members to find a good stretch versus a bad stretch. 57 00:03:54,352.34693878 --> 00:03:59,602.34693878 So the idea is like, in yoga, it's like, oh, this feels different than it felt yesterday or last week. 58 00:03:59,602.34693878 --> 00:04:03,742.34693878 And the idea is to breathe into discomfort and like, not to injure yourself. 59 00:04:03,742.34693878 --> 00:04:06,442.34693878 And so I really wanna encourage people to like. 60 00:04:06,802.34693878 --> 00:04:18,952.34693878 Breathe into potentially challenging conversations or challenging conversations in that moment and not like push themselves or the community member to that place of injury, but also like we wanna find the good stretch place. 61 00:04:19,12.34693878 --> 00:04:21,532.34693878 And so that good stretch might be just staying on the call. 62 00:04:21,532.34693878 --> 00:04:23,962.34693878 That good stretch might be agreeing to volunteer. 63 00:04:23,962.34693878 --> 00:04:26,992.34693878 That good stretch may be a $15,000 gift. 64 00:04:27,22.34693878 --> 00:04:30,142.34693878 You know that good stretch means different things to us in different moments. 65 00:04:31,47.34693878 --> 00:04:33,687.34693878 I like, I like, I like thinking about it like that. 66 00:04:33,717.34693878 --> 00:04:34,617.34693878 That's really good. 67 00:04:34,622.34693878 --> 00:04:34,732.34693878 Yeah. 68 00:04:35,67.34693878 --> 00:04:35,187.34693878 Yeah. 69 00:04:35,247.34693878 --> 00:04:36,807.34693878 Well, thank you for that. 70 00:04:36,957.34693878 --> 00:04:38,67.34693878 And I couldn't help myself. 71 00:04:38,157.34693878 --> 00:04:45,177.34693878 I know we're on this pot in the, we, you know, we're talking about fundraising anyway, I was like, and here's something that I always, that really inspires me in yoga. 72 00:04:45,177.34693878 --> 00:04:46,497.34693878 That inspires my work too. 73 00:04:47,247.34693878 --> 00:04:47,697.34693878 Yeah. 74 00:04:47,757.34693878 --> 00:04:51,777.34693878 I do really love that because, and you never know what a good stretch is for someone. 75 00:04:51,777.34693878 --> 00:04:52,137.34693878 No. 76 00:04:52,532.34693878 --> 00:04:53,732.34693878 For someone else, right? Yeah. 77 00:04:53,732.34693878 --> 00:04:56,432.34693878 You have to kind of explore and be curious. 78 00:04:56,462.34693878 --> 00:04:57,272.34693878 Yes, exactly. 79 00:04:57,272.34693878 --> 00:04:59,222.34693878 And curiosity is what drives me. 80 00:04:59,222.34693878 --> 00:05:01,82.34693878 I'm always like, be curious. 81 00:05:01,82.34693878 --> 00:05:03,992.34693878 Just, just wonder, oh my gosh, Sarah. 82 00:05:03,992.34693878 --> 00:05:05,702.34693878 Like that's music to my ears. 83 00:05:05,702.34693878 --> 00:05:11,732.34693878 I like to say, as far as these phone calls concerned, instead of a, b, c, equaling always be closing. 84 00:05:11,732.34693878 --> 00:05:16,592.34693878 You know, this like icky, kind of like telemarketing, hard sale boiler room. 85 00:05:16,622.34693878 --> 00:05:17,552.34693878 Glen Gary, Glen Ross. 86 00:05:17,727.34693878 --> 00:05:19,797.34693878 Coffee is for closers instead. 87 00:05:19,797.34693878 --> 00:05:21,387.34693878 Always be curious. 88 00:05:21,387.34693878 --> 00:05:21,477.34693878 Mm-hmm. 89 00:05:21,717.34693878 --> 00:05:29,607.34693878 So if you're always leading with curiosity, like I think that is the best way to build trust, build relationship, encourage vulnerability in ourselves and in others. 90 00:05:30,697.34693878 --> 00:05:31,657.34693878 And it's fun. 91 00:05:32,107.34693878 --> 00:05:32,977.34693878 And it's fun. 92 00:05:33,247.34693878 --> 00:05:33,577.34693878 Yes. 93 00:05:34,267.34693878 --> 00:05:36,37.34693878 Totally, totally, totally. 94 00:05:36,307.34693878 --> 00:05:36,817.34693878 Yeah, I love that. 95 00:05:36,817.34693878 --> 00:05:42,397.34693878 All right, Cal, can you introduce yourself to the audience and let them know just a little bit more about you? Absolutely. 96 00:05:42,397.34693878 --> 00:05:43,657.34693878 So I'm Kel Haney. 97 00:05:43,657.34693878 --> 00:05:59,437.34693878 I've got my own consulting firm, Cal Haney Consulting, and what I do is I coach and train not-for-profits to build and maintain their mid-level donor base, predominantly through drum roll, five minute phone calls. 98 00:06:00,787.34693878 --> 00:06:01,357.34693878 Yes. 99 00:06:01,387.34693878 --> 00:06:07,292.34693878 So it's a very specific methodology for a very specific segmentation of your community. 100 00:06:08,812.34693878 --> 00:06:11,272.34693878 So I am not a phone caller. 101 00:06:11,392.34693878 --> 00:06:11,482.34693878 Mm-hmm. 102 00:06:11,722.34693878 --> 00:06:13,582.34693878 Or traditionally haven't been a phone caller. 103 00:06:13,612.34693878 --> 00:06:13,642.34693878 Okay. 104 00:06:13,642.34693878 --> 00:06:14,242.34693878 I won't say that. 105 00:06:14,242.34693878 --> 00:06:15,382.34693878 I'm not anymore. 106 00:06:15,432.34693878 --> 00:06:16,272.34693878 I love that. 107 00:06:16,662.34693878 --> 00:06:17,202.34693878 Yeah. 108 00:06:17,262.34693878 --> 00:06:20,412.34693878 In my, so in my family of origin mm-hmm. 109 00:06:20,652.34693878 --> 00:06:27,762.34693878 Like we only used the phone for very specific purposes, and it was literally that you needed to communicate something. 110 00:06:27,822.34693878 --> 00:06:28,992.34693878 It was not to chitchat. 111 00:06:28,992.34693878 --> 00:06:29,802.34693878 It was not to talk. 112 00:06:29,802.34693878 --> 00:06:31,627.34693878 So I am interesting, struggling. 113 00:06:31,867.34693878 --> 00:06:32,682.34693878 Interesting, interesting. 114 00:06:32,682.34693878 --> 00:06:35,232.34693878 You know, I've struggled with that background. 115 00:06:35,292.34693878 --> 00:06:41,237.34693878 What I've learned is that I actually don't mind having phone calls. 116 00:06:41,237.34693878 --> 00:06:41,557.34693878 Mm-hmm. 117 00:06:41,677.34693878 --> 00:06:44,502.34693878 I never mind if somebody calls me, they can call me every single time. 118 00:06:44,502.34693878 --> 00:06:44,772.34693878 Interesting. 119 00:06:44,777.34693878 --> 00:06:45,157.34693878 Never mind that. 120 00:06:45,357.34693878 --> 00:06:45,477.34693878 Interesting. 121 00:06:45,477.34693878 --> 00:06:45,637.34693878 Okay. 122 00:06:45,642.34693878 --> 00:06:45,672.34693878 Okay. 123 00:06:45,942.34693878 --> 00:06:50,502.34693878 My, but if I have anxiety, it is very difficult for me to dial the phone. 124 00:06:51,582.34693878 --> 00:06:52,782.34693878 That makes sense. 125 00:06:53,892.34693878 --> 00:06:55,152.34693878 That makes complete sense. 126 00:06:55,182.34693878 --> 00:07:03,12.34693878 And I also like, I mean, answer this as much as you want to, but I'm really curious about what you're saying about how the phone was used. 127 00:07:03,12.34693878 --> 00:07:08,952.34693878 And you said it was like for specific moments and it was like truly to like share information. 128 00:07:09,402.34693878 --> 00:07:09,552.34693878 Mm-hmm. 129 00:07:10,632.34693878 --> 00:07:12,972.34693878 I'm assuming maybe those weren't always fun moments. 130 00:07:13,37.34693878 --> 00:07:15,297.34693878 Or maybe sometimes they were I, or boring. 131 00:07:15,297.34693878 --> 00:07:16,212.34693878 They were just really brief. 132 00:07:16,302.34693878 --> 00:07:17,982.34693878 They literally brief, I mean, you know. 133 00:07:17,982.34693878 --> 00:07:18,12.34693878 Okay. 134 00:07:18,412.34693878 --> 00:07:19,42.34693878 Yeah. 135 00:07:19,102.34693878 --> 00:07:21,292.34693878 So I grew up in a rural community. 136 00:07:21,292.34693878 --> 00:07:21,322.34693878 Okay. 137 00:07:21,322.34693878 --> 00:07:24,952.34693878 And my grandparents lived above us and we had a grocery store. 138 00:07:24,952.34693878 --> 00:07:27,142.34693878 So like, okay, you might call for a ride. 139 00:07:27,232.34693878 --> 00:07:27,667.34693878 You Yeah. 140 00:07:27,772.34693878 --> 00:07:30,952.34693878 Might call if you you know, wanted to know where a person was. 141 00:07:30,952.34693878 --> 00:07:31,42.34693878 Mm-hmm. 142 00:07:31,282.34693878 --> 00:07:37,42.34693878 But literally, I, I remember calling, I could probably count on my hands the number of times that. 143 00:07:37,762.34693878 --> 00:07:52,462.34693878 I called friends just to talk and like every single time I did it, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm, am I allowed to do this? What, you know? Well, and that's just totally the opposite of me because I lived on the phone as a kid. 144 00:07:52,552.34693878 --> 00:07:55,162.34693878 So like to the point that my dad. 145 00:07:55,392.34693878 --> 00:08:05,352.34693878 Would in state that we had a quiet hour from seven to eight every day, or maybe, yeah, I think it was seven to eight was quiet time, and so I had to do my homework during that time. 146 00:08:05,352.34693878 --> 00:08:10,512.34693878 If I was finished my homework, I had to read a book or something, like I had to be just like, it was quiet time. 147 00:08:10,512.34693878 --> 00:08:11,322.34693878 It was after dinner. 148 00:08:11,322.34693878 --> 00:08:20,442.34693878 Dinner was at six, and then seven to eight was quiet time, and my dad would offer to be my assistant and answer all of my calls. 149 00:08:20,837.34693878 --> 00:08:21,797.34693878 During that time. 150 00:08:22,97.34693878 --> 00:08:31,577.34693878 And so that was also like good parenting, like fun tactic to be like, okay, well you know, you're gonna go make your phone call, you're gonna go do your work and I will like take all of your messages. 151 00:08:31,577.34693878 --> 00:08:36,227.34693878 He probably, I mean this was the nineties, he probably called himself my secretary or something, but like, it was fun. 152 00:08:36,227.34693878 --> 00:08:36,287.34693878 Yeah. 153 00:08:36,287.34693878 --> 00:08:41,507.34693878 And I loved it and was like, yes, someone to like, you know, support me and my endeavors. 154 00:08:41,537.34693878 --> 00:08:42,197.34693878 I love it. 155 00:08:42,537.34693878 --> 00:08:47,937.34693878 So I love to be on, like, that was something that felt really good and really natural for me. 156 00:08:47,937.34693878 --> 00:08:49,377.34693878 So I'm really aware. 157 00:08:49,907.34693878 --> 00:08:51,617.34693878 That, that is really natural for me. 158 00:08:51,617.34693878 --> 00:09:00,797.34693878 And so what I've spent my time doing is reverse engineering, how to make that more accessible to others who maybe don't feel as comfortable on these calls. 159 00:09:00,887.34693878 --> 00:09:01,762.34693878 Yeah, yeah. 160 00:09:01,767.34693878 --> 00:09:01,907.34693878 Yeah. 161 00:09:02,117.34693878 --> 00:09:03,77.34693878 So I told you that. 162 00:09:03,77.34693878 --> 00:09:05,717.34693878 I'm like, I'm, I'm becoming reformed. 163 00:09:06,287.34693878 --> 00:09:06,557.34693878 Yes. 164 00:09:06,867.34693878 --> 00:09:10,527.34693878 I have a friend who primarily only prefers to talk on the phone. 165 00:09:10,557.34693878 --> 00:09:10,857.34693878 Okay. 166 00:09:10,917.34693878 --> 00:09:12,747.34693878 He hates texting and so like. 167 00:09:13,347.34693878 --> 00:09:14,157.34693878 I talked to him. 168 00:09:14,157.34693878 --> 00:09:16,647.34693878 I, and so I've been practicing that for a long time. 169 00:09:16,947.34693878 --> 00:09:23,727.34693878 But then I have tried to be more intentional about reaching out to family members by phone because I know I need to do it more in my work. 170 00:09:24,27.34693878 --> 00:09:27,717.34693878 You know, and so like practicing it, it's funny, I called my aunt the other day. 171 00:09:27,717.34693878 --> 00:09:30,447.34693878 I didn't leave a message and she called me back. 172 00:09:30,447.34693878 --> 00:09:31,347.34693878 She's like, you can't do that. 173 00:09:31,347.34693878 --> 00:09:32,937.34693878 You can't call and not leave a message. 174 00:09:33,657.34693878 --> 00:09:35,517.34693878 She's like, I didn't know if it was important or not. 175 00:09:35,727.34693878 --> 00:09:36,807.34693878 And I live with my parents. 176 00:09:36,812.34693878 --> 00:09:37,832.34693878 So, you know, so yeah. 177 00:09:37,832.34693878 --> 00:09:40,232.34693878 So she's having all sorts of thoughts about what that could mean. 178 00:09:40,652.34693878 --> 00:09:40,832.34693878 Yeah. 179 00:09:41,42.34693878 --> 00:09:41,222.34693878 Yeah. 180 00:09:41,252.34693878 --> 00:09:41,612.34693878 Yeah. 181 00:09:42,87.34693878 --> 00:09:44,337.34693878 So leaving a message is important. 182 00:09:44,727.34693878 --> 00:09:46,347.34693878 Leaving a message is important. 183 00:09:46,377.34693878 --> 00:09:56,847.34693878 So, I recommend, firstly, like I'll just say, I don't recommend that your, that any organization is just throwing spaghetti at the wall when it comes to making phone calls. 184 00:09:57,157.34693878 --> 00:10:00,907.34693878 It takes too much time and energy and resources to make these calls. 185 00:10:00,907.34693878 --> 00:10:08,917.34693878 So that's why, and we can get into it if you want, but specifically why I talk about mid-level and specifically using these phone calls to connect with your mid-level. 186 00:10:08,917.34693878 --> 00:10:10,267.34693878 So that's people who. 187 00:10:10,622.34693878 --> 00:10:15,332.34693878 You're not gonna have the time, energy, resources to cultivate the way you do major gifts. 188 00:10:15,332.34693878 --> 00:10:20,792.34693878 And frankly, you're not like, you wanna set yourself up for success, your internal team up for success. 189 00:10:20,792.34693878 --> 00:10:26,702.34693878 And getting these people who are making the mid-level gifts to do that is not setting up their expectations. 190 00:10:26,762.34693878 --> 00:10:30,332.34693878 And, and it's not setting up your team for what they actually have the bandwidth to do. 191 00:10:30,782.34693878 --> 00:10:37,742.34693878 But at the same time, mid-level needs something else than like even the most curated, like the best like email. 192 00:10:38,767.34693878 --> 00:10:41,137.34693878 Automated correspondence, like that's great. 193 00:10:41,137.34693878 --> 00:10:54,807.34693878 And that's a great way to capture people as smaller gifts, and I call them grassroots gifts and or, and monthly giving, but mid-level needs something different, which is where that five minute phone call comes into, into play. 194 00:10:55,17.34693878 --> 00:11:01,777.34693878 So when I'm thinking about what you were just saying about your, your aunt and like that idea of she's like, don't leave a voicemail. 195 00:11:02,437.34693878 --> 00:11:08,897.34693878 I recommend leaving voicemails because these are people that in theory already have a connection to your organization. 196 00:11:08,957.34693878 --> 00:11:18,977.34693878 So whether that is they've already made a donation or they've attended an event like that, I'd recommend that there's always some very specific connective tissue to explain why you're calling. 197 00:11:19,767.34693878 --> 00:11:23,907.34693878 So if it's like out of nowhere, then like, no, you probably shouldn't call them. 198 00:11:23,937.34693878 --> 00:11:31,197.34693878 And unless you have a whole outbound fundraising team of other people, like the people that you internally are calling should always get voicemails. 199 00:11:31,197.34693878 --> 00:11:35,847.34693878 And the beautiful thing about it is like now our phones do that transcription thing. 200 00:11:36,582.34693878 --> 00:11:37,302.34693878 It's amazing. 201 00:11:37,302.34693878 --> 00:11:41,262.34693878 When that started happening last year, I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. 202 00:11:41,262.34693878 --> 00:11:44,892.34693878 So I actually recommend you leave a lengthy voicemail. 203 00:11:44,952.34693878 --> 00:11:50,142.34693878 And I think the thing to think about voicemails is they should feel akin to like a handwritten letter. 204 00:11:50,382.34693878 --> 00:11:58,212.34693878 We all know that takes time and energy and resources to write a handwritten note, even if it's on, you know, just the general appeal letter. 205 00:11:58,617.34693878 --> 00:12:00,537.34693878 But that's what it feels like with a voicemail. 206 00:12:00,567.34693878 --> 00:12:03,867.34693878 And so they might not listen, but maybe they'll look at the transcription. 207 00:12:03,867.34693878 --> 00:12:08,967.34693878 And I also recommend following up with an email, like say, I'll put this all in an email as well. 208 00:12:09,27.34693878 --> 00:12:13,197.34693878 So I have like specific, really specific thoughts when it comes to voicemails. 209 00:12:13,197.34693878 --> 00:12:13,857.34693878 And I've seen, I. 210 00:12:14,167.34693878 --> 00:12:15,217.34693878 Amazing things happen. 211 00:12:15,367.34693878 --> 00:12:17,197.34693878 So, so that's really interesting. 212 00:12:17,197.34693878 --> 00:12:21,487.34693878 I actually have a formula for my voicemails that I learned years ago as a professional. 213 00:12:21,487.34693878 --> 00:12:25,717.34693878 Like it was in a professional class and it was like, you know, when you, but it was to get them to call you back. 214 00:12:25,717.34693878 --> 00:12:30,67.34693878 So it's not, it it interesting, not framed here, but I really like scripting. 215 00:12:30,72.34693878 --> 00:12:30,382.34693878 Mm-hmm. 216 00:12:30,467.34693878 --> 00:12:32,887.34693878 So for me, I think scripting is so important. 217 00:12:32,887.34693878 --> 00:12:34,777.34693878 I actually recommend scripting. 218 00:12:35,167.34693878 --> 00:12:40,147.34693878 I was director of HR for three years and what I found was. 219 00:12:40,632.34693878 --> 00:12:46,512.34693878 If you script it and you provide them a script, they will hit the high marks, right? Mm-hmm. 220 00:12:46,812.34693878 --> 00:12:52,2.34693878 You hit your high marks better than if you don't have anything to work with. 221 00:12:52,272.34693878 --> 00:12:52,452.34693878 Totally. 222 00:12:52,452.34693878 --> 00:12:58,692.34693878 And so I'm all about formulas and being able to make it really predictable and especially. 223 00:12:59,727.34693878 --> 00:13:04,737.34693878 As a person who has had some anxiety around phones, it's really, really important for me. 224 00:13:04,737.34693878 --> 00:13:07,317.34693878 So that that just takes off a level of stress. 225 00:13:07,317.34693878 --> 00:13:10,137.34693878 Like you're just like, okay, I can do this 'cause I know what I'm going to do. 226 00:13:10,437.34693878 --> 00:13:10,707.34693878 Yeah. 227 00:13:10,797.34693878 --> 00:13:11,637.34693878 Yeah, I would hear that. 228 00:13:11,637.34693878 --> 00:13:14,517.34693878 I mean, I'll say, I mean, some of this gets a little into semantics. 229 00:13:14,577.34693878 --> 00:13:18,537.34693878 I tend to say, like if people follow me on LinkedIn and stuff, they'll see this. 230 00:13:18,537.34693878 --> 00:13:22,797.34693878 But I like write and part of it is, I have a background, I was a theater director for 20 years, so. 231 00:13:23,87.34693878 --> 00:13:25,577.34693878 You can take the gal out of theater, but not theater out of the gal. 232 00:13:25,607.34693878 --> 00:13:33,257.34693878 But I tend to say like, I feel like scripts, quote unquote, like actual scripts are for actors as opposed to fundraisers. 233 00:13:33,437.34693878 --> 00:13:34,817.34693878 But that being said. 234 00:13:35,97.34693878 --> 00:13:43,617.34693878 I don't necessarily think, I think what you are saying and what you're craving is having some foundational support and having direction on the call. 235 00:13:43,647.34693878 --> 00:13:47,577.34693878 You know? And so like my, so, and there's a lot of different ways to do this. 236 00:13:47,577.34693878 --> 00:13:52,107.34693878 So like I train these four tent poles, like my five minute fundraising ask, 'cause like, here's. 237 00:13:52,757.34693878 --> 00:13:56,297.34693878 Four different moments that you're going to reach on this call. 238 00:13:56,297.34693878 --> 00:14:12,677.34693878 And basically that comes outta me being inspired to think about the conversation as a tent, like the kind that you might have a graduation party under, or that you might have a, a reunion under, or in my case, a more di i wedding than you expected on an island on the coast of Portland, Maine. 239 00:14:13,7.34693878 --> 00:14:14,507.34693878 So I like to think about it as a tent. 240 00:14:14,507.34693878 --> 00:14:16,667.34693878 So what holds up the tent are these four tent poles. 241 00:14:16,667.34693878 --> 00:14:16,937.34693878 So like. 242 00:14:17,397.34693878 --> 00:14:29,997.34693878 The idea that you've got some guidance, because the thing is, is that if you really think script like a very like strict script as you know from doing this now, you wanna also make room for actual conversation. 243 00:14:30,27.34693878 --> 00:14:30,567.34693878 Yes, yes. 244 00:14:30,567.34693878 --> 00:14:31,107.34693878 To happen. 245 00:14:31,107.34693878 --> 00:14:38,967.34693878 So similar to like, you know, to us talking and you were so great and sent me all these amazing, thoughtful questions to talk about and then pre-recording you and I. 246 00:14:39,182.34693878 --> 00:14:42,182.34693878 We're speaking and you're like, I like to just have it as a conversation. 247 00:14:42,182.34693878 --> 00:14:43,592.34693878 And I was like, amazing. 248 00:14:43,712.34693878 --> 00:14:46,892.34693878 I was like, that sounds great, but we have all this other prep work. 249 00:14:46,892.34693878 --> 00:14:51,782.34693878 Like we've got that both of us, so we've got some groundwork of where we go. 250 00:14:51,782.34693878 --> 00:15:00,122.34693878 So sometimes I actually, there are two places in the column that I actually do really recommend that you have, and I don't, I don't call it scripting, I call it messaging. 251 00:15:00,612.34693878 --> 00:15:01,752.34693878 Frankly it's the same thing. 252 00:15:01,752.34693878 --> 00:15:01,812.34693878 Yeah. 253 00:15:01,817.34693878 --> 00:15:03,102.34693878 That, that seems, that seems better. 254 00:15:03,222.34693878 --> 00:15:08,842.34693878 That actually seems better To, more relatable to what? I think I was an improv actor in college. 255 00:15:08,842.34693878 --> 00:15:09,52.34693878 Oh, amazing. 256 00:15:09,52.34693878 --> 00:15:13,762.34693878 So I did improv, improv theater, and you know, like. 257 00:15:14,302.34693878 --> 00:15:18,172.34693878 You know, where and what you're supposed to be aiming at. 258 00:15:18,232.34693878 --> 00:15:18,322.34693878 Mm-hmm. 259 00:15:18,562.34693878 --> 00:15:20,482.34693878 But you don't have the exact script. 260 00:15:20,487.34693878 --> 00:15:20,607.34693878 Exactly. 261 00:15:20,607.34693878 --> 00:15:20,887.34693878 Exactly. 262 00:15:20,887.34693878 --> 00:15:28,322.34693878 I definitely think I am talking about more similar to what you're talking about kind of a, an idea of where we're going here. 263 00:15:28,322.34693878 --> 00:15:28,323.34693878 Yeah. 264 00:15:28,328.34693878 --> 00:15:28,862.34693878 Yeah. 265 00:15:28,952.34693878 --> 00:15:32,942.34693878 And don't get me wrong, sometimes when people are, I will never write them a script. 266 00:15:32,972.34693878 --> 00:15:39,362.34693878 Like I will say, and I've now gotten to the point that I've got some slides that are like, here's some suggested messaging. 267 00:15:39,737.34693878 --> 00:15:42,632.34693878 That almost works like Mad Libs, like where you mm-hmm. 268 00:15:42,717.34693878 --> 00:15:45,317.34693878 You know, enter your specific thoughts here. 269 00:15:45,397.34693878 --> 00:15:54,787.34693878 But that idea is to specifically get yourself through the first 15 seconds of the call, which is the first tent pole, because we all make split second decisions. 270 00:15:54,787.34693878 --> 00:16:05,137.34693878 I'm very inspired by Malcolm Gladwell and Blink, and the idea that you need to, if you're gonna call your community members, you need to like immediately establish. 271 00:16:05,527.34693878 --> 00:16:20,947.34693878 Who you are, what your title is, even at the organization and like what their connection is to you because they may not remember and why you're calling right now, like all in the first 15 seconds so that that other person doesn't just hang up the phone on you. 272 00:16:20,952.34693878 --> 00:16:22,447.34693878 'cause they don't owe us anything. 273 00:16:22,507.34693878 --> 00:16:30,847.34693878 They don't know we're calling they, we have all had terrible experiences with telemarketers, with scammers. 274 00:16:31,717.34693878 --> 00:16:35,227.34693878 With just it being an AI robot that's calling us. 275 00:16:35,257.34693878 --> 00:16:35,647.34693878 Mm-hmm. 276 00:16:35,927.34693878 --> 00:16:37,337.34693878 And so you wanna be like, no. 277 00:16:37,337.34693878 --> 00:16:45,227.3469388 And I, and I think some of the, sometimes it's hard for folks in the not-for-profit sector to like center themselves for a moment and to say, no, that means a lot. 278 00:16:45,287.3469388 --> 00:16:57,557.3469388 You know, like for you to say, I'm the executive director, or I'm the director of development, or I'm even the development associate, whatever that title is, that means a lot to the other person that they realize that they're talking to somebody. 279 00:16:57,872.3469388 --> 00:17:02,672.3469388 Who works directly for this organization as opposed to those other things I just said. 280 00:17:02,972.3469388 --> 00:17:07,562.3469388 So that's one moment that I do recommend some specific messaging. 281 00:17:07,802.3469388 --> 00:17:20,402.3469388 And the other is 10 pole number three, which is the actual ask, and we don't have to get into it now, but 10 pole number two is what I call the main event, and that's calling the community member further into your organization. 282 00:17:20,732.3469388 --> 00:17:23,132.3469388 So you'll notice that the ASK is not the main event. 283 00:17:23,577.3469388 --> 00:17:30,567.3469388 Of this call the community building, the, like shifting away from a transactional encounter to relationship building opportunity. 284 00:17:30,567.3469388 --> 00:17:40,377.3469388 Like that you're building a relationship and if in that moment they're also feeling like it's a quote unquote good stretch to give, great, but it, it's not about that. 285 00:17:40,407.3469388 --> 00:17:45,297.3469388 And people feel the difference of when they're actually being marketed to and to like have a. 286 00:17:46,427.3469388 --> 00:17:50,507.3469388 Pushy ask as opposed to somebody who is really being genuine with them. 287 00:17:50,507.3469388 --> 00:17:52,427.3469388 And it's like, yeah, I mean, we're not-for-profit. 288 00:17:52,427.3469388 --> 00:17:54,287.3469388 Guess what? We could use your donation. 289 00:17:54,587.3469388 --> 00:17:57,317.3469388 Here's specifically why that's helpful to us right now. 290 00:17:57,757.3469388 --> 00:18:04,597.3469388 But it's okay if not, like I just want both people to hang up the phone and feel better than they did when they were on the phone. 291 00:18:04,597.3469388 --> 00:18:05,677.3469388 Like, that's the whole idea. 292 00:18:05,677.3469388 --> 00:18:10,777.3469388 And I'd like the community member to know more about that organization and have a more like. 293 00:18:11,722.3469388 --> 00:18:28,432.3469388 Not just educated, but positive outlook on them than they did before they got on the call, and that they're gonna be more likely to open the next email or to like, you know, connect over social or go to the next event, or frankly, pick up the phone the next time your org calls because they're like, oh, that was like pleasant. 294 00:18:28,432.3469388 --> 00:18:30,142.3469388 I had this amazing conversation. 295 00:18:30,442.3469388 --> 00:18:32,542.3469388 It was so out of the blue and it was amazing. 296 00:18:32,542.3469388 --> 00:18:34,12.3469388 I want them to be talking about it. 297 00:18:34,252.3469388 --> 00:18:35,777.3469388 At dinner with whomever they're at. 298 00:18:35,797.3469388 --> 00:18:36,17.3469388 Yes. 299 00:18:36,17.3469388 --> 00:18:42,412.3469388 They're like, I have the most surprising and like delightful conversation with somebody from organization A, b, C today. 300 00:18:42,412.3469388 --> 00:18:46,402.3469388 Who would've thought like, that's, that's what I'm hoping is that it's got that ripple effect. 301 00:18:46,402.3469388 --> 00:18:46,462.3469388 I. 302 00:18:47,362.3469388 --> 00:18:52,552.3469388 So that's actually the experience that I consistently have when I make phone calls is that I'm like, oh, that was so nice. 303 00:18:52,552.3469388 --> 00:18:54,547.3469388 It was so much better than I, and Nice. 304 00:18:54,712.3469388 --> 00:18:59,187.3469388 And you mentioned a moment so that those, that first 15 second mm-hmm. 305 00:18:59,267.3469388 --> 00:18:59,507.3469388 Moment. 306 00:18:59,507.3469388 --> 00:18:59,508.3469388 Mm-hmm. 307 00:19:00,112.3469388 --> 00:19:03,232.3469388 That actually for me is the moment of the greatest anxiety. 308 00:19:03,232.3469388 --> 00:19:04,42.3469388 And it is, of course. 309 00:19:04,42.3469388 --> 00:19:04,772.3469388 It's it is always. 310 00:19:05,782.3469388 --> 00:19:08,422.3469388 That's the, that's the whole hesitation to making the phone call. 311 00:19:08,422.3469388 --> 00:19:08,482.3469388 Yeah. 312 00:19:08,542.3469388 --> 00:19:11,752.3469388 I never have a problem once I hear their voice and they're like, yes. 313 00:19:11,812.3469388 --> 00:19:12,232.3469388 Oh, hi. 314 00:19:13,582.3469388 --> 00:19:13,942.3469388 Right. 315 00:19:14,62.3469388 --> 00:19:14,362.3469388 Yeah. 316 00:19:14,412.3469388 --> 00:19:15,612.3469388 Because I, I like to talk. 317 00:19:16,32.3469388 --> 00:19:16,632.3469388 Yeah, absolutely. 318 00:19:16,632.3469388 --> 00:19:23,202.3469388 But that moment is really, really so important and it's so helpful to have kind of, you know, that framework. 319 00:19:23,202.3469388 --> 00:19:27,672.3469388 And I do think, you know, it, it is always shocking to me. 320 00:19:27,672.3469388 --> 00:19:29,592.3469388 So I've actually been a fundraising for 25 years. 321 00:19:29,922.3469388 --> 00:19:30,162.3469388 Amazing. 322 00:19:30,222.3469388 --> 00:19:31,382.3469388 And you know, we've. 323 00:19:31,827.3469388 --> 00:19:35,937.3469388 I, when I started in 2000, it was a different world. 324 00:19:35,997.3469388 --> 00:19:37,287.3469388 We didn't do email. 325 00:19:37,532.3469388 --> 00:19:37,732.3469388 I know. 326 00:19:37,732.3469388 --> 00:19:39,357.3469388 And I was also at a university. 327 00:19:40,677.3469388 --> 00:19:41,157.3469388 Oh yeah. 328 00:19:41,307.3469388 --> 00:19:46,977.3469388 And so we had, so we did phone, like we had the phone call. 329 00:19:47,127.3469388 --> 00:19:48,897.3469388 You know, we would do phone a hon type Yeah. 330 00:19:48,902.3469388 --> 00:19:51,147.3469388 Calling You had some kind of call center thing or something. 331 00:19:51,152.3469388 --> 00:19:51,462.3469388 Uhhuh. 332 00:19:51,732.3469388 --> 00:19:52,22.3469388 Yeah. 333 00:19:52,322.3469388 --> 00:19:52,414.3469388 With the wired. 334 00:19:52,967.3469388 --> 00:19:53,447.3469388 Phones. 335 00:19:53,497.3469388 --> 00:19:55,117.3469388 Oh yeah, that's how I started too. 336 00:19:55,252.3469388 --> 00:19:57,667.3469388 I started in 2005 and that's how I started as well. 337 00:19:57,667.3469388 --> 00:19:58,297.3469388 So yeah. 338 00:19:58,507.3469388 --> 00:19:58,807.3469388 Yeah. 339 00:19:58,957.3469388 --> 00:20:03,187.3469388 So around that same time, we, we had them and we did it for admissions too. 340 00:20:03,187.3469388 --> 00:20:08,947.3469388 I ended up being director of advancement after I was there for about eight years. 341 00:20:09,7.3469388 --> 00:20:09,157.3469388 Mm-hmm. 342 00:20:09,397.3469388 --> 00:20:17,527.3469388 So the phones were really key now, and what I have learned over time is it is amazing what your donors remember. 343 00:20:17,587.3469388 --> 00:20:19,927.3469388 And those phone calls, yes, they remember. 344 00:20:20,332.3469388 --> 00:20:22,72.3469388 So we used students a lot. 345 00:20:22,102.3469388 --> 00:20:23,967.3469388 They would remember the students' names. 346 00:20:24,107.3469388 --> 00:20:24,407.3469388 Of course. 347 00:20:24,412.3469388 --> 00:20:39,132.3469388 They would ask, are they still a student? Or they would talk about their major, you know, and it's amazing Those phone, phone calls are truly, truly just a unique touch because, and now in our digital world. 348 00:20:40,107.3469388 --> 00:20:44,367.3469388 Any real touch, like a true touch? Yes. 349 00:20:44,367.3469388 --> 00:20:46,467.3469388 Either in person or by phone. 350 00:20:46,617.3469388 --> 00:20:46,857.3469388 Yes. 351 00:20:46,857.3469388 --> 00:20:48,177.3469388 Is so unique. 352 00:20:48,612.3469388 --> 00:20:49,362.3469388 Totally. 353 00:20:49,392.3469388 --> 00:20:49,872.3469388 Totally. 354 00:20:49,872.3469388 --> 00:20:57,72.3469388 And you're getting to the kernel of like, my why for all of this is truly this idea of connecting people to other people. 355 00:20:57,72.3469388 --> 00:20:57,162.3469388 Mm-hmm. 356 00:20:57,462.3469388 --> 00:21:00,972.3469388 Like having that genuine human connection. 357 00:21:01,32.3469388 --> 00:21:13,992.3469388 And so I look at it as like a micro connection and especially as we have less and less of that, so many of us are working from home or working hybrid, or you go into the coffee shop and it's like you've already pre-ordered and it just, it's just there for you. 358 00:21:13,997.3469388 --> 00:21:17,22.3469388 You don't even interact with someone at the coffee shop or at a grocery store. 359 00:21:17,342.3469388 --> 00:21:21,392.3469388 You know, like your family, you know, it's just so crazy to just see how that's changed. 360 00:21:21,392.3469388 --> 00:21:30,362.3469388 If it's just like contactless connection and it's like that's what we crave and as humans is connectivity and connecting to each other. 361 00:21:30,362.3469388 --> 00:21:34,532.3469388 And so I'm like, how amazing is this? And so what I recommend is that the only people. 362 00:21:34,962.3469388 --> 00:21:39,882.3469388 Who make fundraising calls are people who are passionate about the organization they're calling for. 363 00:21:40,212.3469388 --> 00:21:56,892.3469388 So, I know it sounds obvious, but come on, like the idea is that what you have in common with that community member that you're calling, and you'll notice, I, I specifically aren't, I'm not like saying the mid-level donor that you're calling, you know, it's like I'm always saying like, let's see them each as individuals. 364 00:21:57,197.3469388 --> 00:22:04,817.3469388 Whenever I'm coaching someone and they're like, oh, I talked to, and they've got some kind of like crazy acronym for like the lap donor at the particular segment. 365 00:22:04,817.3469388 --> 00:22:05,987.3469388 I was like, okay, great, great, great. 366 00:22:06,17.3469388 --> 00:22:08,7.3469388 Now what's their name? Okay. 367 00:22:08,7.3469388 --> 00:22:20,547.3469388 And now when was their last gift? When was their first gift? What? What do we see? Tell me more about what you see in like, and I know some of you might not have a tremendous amount of information in your CRMs lately, but yet at this point. 368 00:22:20,547.3469388 --> 00:22:23,247.3469388 But this is, this is really crucial, is that we're. 369 00:22:23,697.3469388 --> 00:22:28,887.3469388 Gathering as much information as possible and that you think you're gonna remember things on the call, but you won't. 370 00:22:29,37.3469388 --> 00:22:35,217.3469388 And so then whether it's you or whomever is working after you, to see all of that information about that call is really important. 371 00:22:35,527.3469388 --> 00:22:36,907.3469388 But it's just amazing. 372 00:22:36,937.3469388 --> 00:22:50,347.3469388 It's just really amazing to be able to say like, why not have two people who are passionate about the same organization connecting over that in this moment? Whether or not it leads to a donation today or not, it, like I've said, is beside the point. 373 00:22:50,347.3469388 --> 00:22:50,407.3469388 Yeah. 374 00:22:50,497.3469388 --> 00:22:56,757.3469388 And what I see is the money always follows, like whether it's on that call or not the money always follows. 375 00:22:57,27.3469388 --> 00:22:57,992.3469388 So it's exciting. 376 00:22:58,947.3469388 --> 00:22:59,247.3469388 Yeah. 377 00:22:59,247.3469388 --> 00:22:59,907.3469388 That is exciting. 378 00:23:00,117.3469388 --> 00:23:04,407.3469388 You said something there about the CRM and I really love that you mentioned it because, yeah. 379 00:23:04,857.3469388 --> 00:23:09,117.3469388 So I am really, really passionate about sustainability of organizations. 380 00:23:09,147.3469388 --> 00:23:09,237.3469388 Mm-hmm. 381 00:23:09,477.3469388 --> 00:23:15,617.3469388 And one of the things that I've seen too frequently is that are historical. 382 00:23:16,262.3469388 --> 00:23:21,542.3469388 Information about our donors and about our organization are not recorded anywhere. 383 00:23:21,662.3469388 --> 00:23:22,997.3469388 Yes, yes, yes. 384 00:23:24,152.3469388 --> 00:23:24,452.3469388 Yeah. 385 00:23:24,452.3469388 --> 00:23:26,372.3469388 And I always tell this story, oh, sorry. 386 00:23:26,462.3469388 --> 00:23:27,512.3469388 No, no, you go ahead, please. 387 00:23:28,112.3469388 --> 00:23:35,402.3469388 I came into an organization that had 50,000 donor or 50,000 people on their donation list, but not 50,000 donors. 388 00:23:35,792.3469388 --> 00:23:36,302.3469388 And. 389 00:23:37,157.3469388 --> 00:23:39,687.3469388 I, there were a lot of seasoned fundraisers. 390 00:23:39,687.3469388 --> 00:23:41,697.3469388 They knew the list really well. 391 00:23:41,702.3469388 --> 00:23:41,922.3469388 Mm-hmm. 392 00:23:42,7.3469388 --> 00:23:42,147.3469388 Mm-hmm. 393 00:23:42,447.3469388 --> 00:23:44,7.3469388 And I had no idea. 394 00:23:44,487.3469388 --> 00:23:44,667.3469388 Yeah. 395 00:23:44,667.3469388 --> 00:23:47,697.3469388 And I'm supposed to fundraise from this list too. 396 00:23:48,87.3469388 --> 00:23:48,147.3469388 Yeah. 397 00:23:48,147.3469388 --> 00:23:49,587.3469388 And I know nothing about them. 398 00:23:49,617.3469388 --> 00:23:53,487.3469388 If I couldn't sit down with one of them and say, okay, tell me a little bit about this person. 399 00:23:53,817.3469388 --> 00:23:54,237.3469388 Yes. 400 00:23:54,297.3469388 --> 00:23:55,647.3469388 It's like starting. 401 00:23:56,322.3469388 --> 00:23:57,792.3469388 From scratch. 402 00:23:57,852.3469388 --> 00:23:58,302.3469388 Exactly. 403 00:23:58,302.3469388 --> 00:24:00,642.3469388 Every single time. 404 00:24:01,272.3469388 --> 00:24:01,273.3469388 Yeah. 405 00:24:01,362.3469388 --> 00:24:02,922.3469388 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 406 00:24:02,922.3469388 --> 00:24:14,622.3469388 And I've seen, I mean, I've definitely, every once in a while I come across someone who has some related versions to adding things to the CRM because they think, oh, this person told me this in confidence or whatnot, and I'm like. 407 00:24:14,622.3469388 --> 00:24:20,562.3469388 I told you what, like what their dog's name is like that, their granddaughter's in ballet. 408 00:24:20,592.3469388 --> 00:24:29,352.3469388 Like, I'm kind of like, I don't, I don't quite understand like, I mean, again, obviously if it's something sensitive and it's like it's a personal issue or something, I get that. 409 00:24:29,352.3469388 --> 00:24:37,962.3469388 But to still be able, there's something you can say in the CRM that then explains the situation in a broader sense to the next person who's gonna make this call. 410 00:24:38,222.3469388 --> 00:24:39,152.3469388 Because you just. 411 00:24:39,752.3469388 --> 00:24:42,2.3469388 A, I also wonder what they were missing, Sarah. 412 00:24:42,2.3469388 --> 00:24:43,172.3469388 Like that's the other thing. 413 00:24:43,172.3469388 --> 00:24:48,572.3469388 It's like while you were in that culture of, oh, we all just have all these people in our heads, but mm-hmm. 414 00:24:48,842.3469388 --> 00:25:00,572.3469388 How much are we really remembering? And to your point of the idea that the community remember, remembers all those details about the person who called, we wanna make sure that we're giving that right back to them. 415 00:25:00,632.3469388 --> 00:25:03,212.3469388 So I think being in a habit that. 416 00:25:03,517.3469388 --> 00:25:12,67.3469388 That information, like you think you're gonna remember things you won't, that you are really writing into the CRM or even if you're not to the CRM place. 417 00:25:12,67.3469388 --> 00:25:17,77.3469388 And it is like, you know, on a spreadsheet for somebody else to integrate at some point, whatever. 418 00:25:17,527.3469388 --> 00:25:20,527.3469388 But just getting that information out is important. 419 00:25:20,897.3469388 --> 00:25:26,537.3469388 While we're talking about CRM, the other amazing thing about the phone calls is you can use it as a moment for CRM cleanup. 420 00:25:27,807.3469388 --> 00:25:35,157.3469388 If someone is saying, oh, I'm not actually re receiving your emails, I can say, oh, well I've got [e-mail]. 421 00:25:35,157.3469388 --> 00:25:37,707.3469388 Is that the best email? Oh no, I don't use that. 422 00:25:37,707.3469388 --> 00:25:38,547.3469388 I use this. 423 00:25:38,577.3469388 --> 00:25:39,327.3469388 Okay, great. 424 00:25:39,897.3469388 --> 00:25:44,367.3469388 How valuable is that? We have the direct and then, and then you find out things. 425 00:25:44,367.3469388 --> 00:25:53,517.3469388 If we find out someone hasn't been donating in a while and maybe they admit over the phone, well Kel, your organization constantly misspells my partner's name. 426 00:25:54,432.3469388 --> 00:25:57,12.3469388 Oh my gosh, Sarah, I'm so sorry to hear that. 427 00:25:57,282.3469388 --> 00:25:58,752.3469388 Here's how I have it spelled. 428 00:25:59,172.3469388 --> 00:26:04,182.3469388 Like how, how actually is your partner's name spelled? Thank you so much for telling me like that's awful. 429 00:26:04,212.3469388 --> 00:26:06,612.3469388 Like we didn't know, so thank you. 430 00:26:06,762.3469388 --> 00:26:08,772.3469388 We did not know we were making that mistake. 431 00:26:09,42.3469388 --> 00:26:16,2.3469388 So it really is a great moment to just make sure that you've got accurate data on your community members in a larger sense. 432 00:26:16,2.3469388 --> 00:26:16,92.3469388 Yes. 433 00:26:17,92.3469388 --> 00:26:24,922.3469388 Did you hear me? So, no, I it, oh, I said, do you recommend calling with the CRM up in front of you? A hundred percent. 434 00:26:24,922.3469388 --> 00:26:33,772.3469388 So what people fall into a habit of is they like, want to have it all memorized and also like it makes sense, they're nervous, like you said, their anxiety is kicking in. 435 00:26:33,772.3469388 --> 00:26:38,422.3469388 So they're like spending five minutes on the CRM before they get on the call. 436 00:26:38,422.3469388 --> 00:26:42,652.3469388 And I say, no, like, you know your CRM, you know where to look for the information. 437 00:26:43,42.3469388 --> 00:26:44,992.3469388 Take 30 seconds to a minute. 438 00:26:44,992.3469388 --> 00:26:47,362.3469388 Total, you know exactly where to look. 439 00:26:47,422.3469388 --> 00:26:49,672.3469388 And then the beauty is that they can't see you. 440 00:26:49,672.3469388 --> 00:26:51,202.3469388 We all know how to multitask. 441 00:26:51,202.3469388 --> 00:27:00,232.3469388 So if you need to be double checking in that moment and like looking up other things in the CRM, don't spend more than a minute on prep work for each of these calls. 442 00:27:00,232.3469388 --> 00:27:02,482.3469388 Yeah, that, that's a, that's something people fall into a lot. 443 00:27:03,607.3469388 --> 00:27:04,567.3469388 Yeah, that makes sense. 444 00:27:04,897.3469388 --> 00:27:05,167.3469388 Yeah. 445 00:27:05,167.3469388 --> 00:27:08,17.3469388 I, so I worked in community health for the last eight years. 446 00:27:08,47.3469388 --> 00:27:08,137.3469388 Okay. 447 00:27:08,197.3469388 --> 00:27:13,67.3469388 And well it actually, I've been doing this I guess for more than a couple of years, but yay. 448 00:27:13,307.3469388 --> 00:27:15,77.3469388 I had worked in community health for eight years. 449 00:27:15,227.3469388 --> 00:27:15,407.3469388 Yeah. 450 00:27:15,437.3469388 --> 00:27:19,967.3469388 And it's kind of the idea of that like, when the doctor comes in, they have some idea. 451 00:27:19,997.3469388 --> 00:27:20,357.3469388 Right. 452 00:27:20,657.3469388 --> 00:27:23,327.3469388 And so that's, when I think of the CRM, that's what I think of. 453 00:27:23,327.3469388 --> 00:27:28,577.3469388 Like, you want your doctor, just like, you want the people who are receiving your money. 454 00:27:28,637.3469388 --> 00:27:28,727.3469388 Yes. 455 00:27:28,937.3469388 --> 00:27:30,347.3469388 To have some idea who you are. 456 00:27:30,497.3469388 --> 00:27:32,27.3469388 Yes, exactly. 457 00:27:32,27.3469388 --> 00:27:38,537.3469388 And I'm actually very passionate about the intersection of hospitality with our, with our sector and hospitality. 458 00:27:38,537.3469388 --> 00:27:44,477.3469388 Doesn't have to mean that the donor is always right, but it is about how great it feels to make other people feel good. 459 00:27:44,777.3469388 --> 00:27:47,987.3469388 And we all wanna be seen and heard and remembered. 460 00:27:48,317.3469388 --> 00:27:52,877.3469388 So to be able to hop on that call, and to your point about that first 15 seconds. 461 00:27:52,877.3469388 --> 00:28:03,487.3469388 My wreck, Sarah, is that you front load it and this is what's hard because I'm gonna, I recommend with that first 15 seconds, you're doing something you would never do on per in person. 462 00:28:03,897.3469388 --> 00:28:12,237.3469388 But what I recommend is when they pick up, as opposed to you picking up and me saying, hi, am I speaking with Sarah? Hi Sarah. 463 00:28:12,237.3469388 --> 00:28:12,927.3469388 My name's Kel. 464 00:28:12,927.3469388 --> 00:28:15,87.3469388 I'm calling from organization X, Y, Z. 465 00:28:15,87.3469388 --> 00:28:20,287.3469388 How are you today? Is this an okay time to talk? There's a lot of space. 466 00:28:20,347.3469388 --> 00:28:22,27.3469388 We all move very fast in this world. 467 00:28:22,27.3469388 --> 00:28:28,627.3469388 That gave you a ton of time to like come up with who this person is, why they're bothering you. 468 00:28:28,807.3469388 --> 00:28:31,567.3469388 Are they a scammer? Like to keep all of your. 469 00:28:31,927.3469388 --> 00:28:36,427.3469388 Armor up as opposed to if you picked up the phone and you said Hello. 470 00:28:36,457.3469388 --> 00:28:38,77.3469388 And I said, hi Sarah. 471 00:28:38,77.3469388 --> 00:28:38,947.3469388 My name is Kel. 472 00:28:38,977.3469388 --> 00:28:41,977.3469388 I'm the executive director of organization X, y, Z. 473 00:28:42,37.3469388 --> 00:28:43,87.3469388 You are so amazing. 474 00:28:43,87.3469388 --> 00:28:43,447.3469388 Thank you. 475 00:28:43,447.3469388 --> 00:28:47,17.3469388 You did a gift of $500 with us back in December. 476 00:28:47,17.3469388 --> 00:28:48,427.3469388 We so appreciate that. 477 00:28:48,677.3469388 --> 00:29:00,927.3469388 We're gearing up right now for our spring fundraiser and we've got an in-person event, but like, first and foremost, I just wanted to see like, are you looking at the emails? Do we even know that we've got this event happening on April? 15th. 478 00:29:00,927.3469388 --> 00:29:04,372.3469388 Is that on your radar? So I said a lot. 479 00:29:05,522.3469388 --> 00:29:06,392.3469388 15 seconds. 480 00:29:06,392.3469388 --> 00:29:09,182.3469388 So that is where you might wanna like message out that. 481 00:29:09,182.3469388 --> 00:29:15,602.3469388 But in that time, I would say assume you're talking to the person you're spo you think you're talking to. 482 00:29:15,632.3469388 --> 00:29:26,372.3469388 If you called Robin and you were supposed to speak with Chris, I'm telling you Chris Robin will go ahead and immediately correct you and you can say, I'm so sorry to be presumptuous, like. 483 00:29:26,482.3469388 --> 00:29:34,642.3469388 Are you also, do you donate together to our organization or you know, is that more Chris's thing? Like that hardly ever happens. 484 00:29:34,882.3469388 --> 00:29:45,382.3469388 So I'd say use their first name, like go with a familiarity as if this is someone you were meeting at a dinner party and you had mutual friends, so you don't have like. 485 00:29:45,792.3469388 --> 00:29:47,112.3469388 They're not your best friend. 486 00:29:47,112.3469388 --> 00:29:53,412.3469388 They're not your sibling or your grandmother or your child or something, but they're, they're not your family. 487 00:29:53,412.3469388 --> 00:30:04,32.3469388 They're not your close friends, but they are like one degree removed is how I recommend, and we talk to those people with an informality and a warmth, and so I really recommend that. 488 00:30:05,22.3469388 --> 00:30:07,92.3469388 'cause again, if you called me and said, hi, Ms. 489 00:30:07,92.3469388 --> 00:30:08,907.3469388 Haney, no one calls me Ms. 490 00:30:08,907.3469388 --> 00:30:10,267.3469388 Haney, like, you got it down. 491 00:30:10,267.3469388 --> 00:30:10,602.3469388 That's right. 492 00:30:10,602.3469388 --> 00:30:11,592.3469388 You're, you're done. 493 00:30:11,952.3469388 --> 00:30:16,392.3469388 You know, or even worse, you use my husband's last name, GRU, which isn't my last name. 494 00:30:16,422.3469388 --> 00:30:17,742.3469388 If you called me and said, Mrs. 495 00:30:17,742.3469388 --> 00:30:22,872.3469388 Gru, I would be like, where's Kate? Where's my mother-in-law? Like, that's not, that's not my name. 496 00:30:22,872.3469388 --> 00:30:24,12.3469388 No one calls me that. 497 00:30:24,12.3469388 --> 00:30:25,392.3469388 So you may think you're being. 498 00:30:25,852.3469388 --> 00:30:34,462.3469388 Formal and respectful, but what you're really doing, especially in 2025, is like putting a barrier between you and the community member immediately. 499 00:30:35,182.3469388 --> 00:30:35,452.3469388 Yeah. 500 00:30:35,872.3469388 --> 00:30:36,172.3469388 Yeah. 501 00:30:36,502.3469388 --> 00:30:44,907.3469388 And if they are someone who really prefers to have some type of title upfront, you're gonna know that that will be in the CRM 100%. 502 00:30:45,262.3469388 --> 00:30:49,432.3469388 And if it's not on the CRM already, they will tell you in that moment. 503 00:30:49,432.3469388 --> 00:30:49,882.3469388 That's right. 504 00:30:49,882.3469388 --> 00:30:54,562.3469388 And, and, and that it doesn't happen that often, but if it does happen, which I would say is like truly like. 505 00:30:55,547.3469388 --> 00:30:56,567.3469388 I've had couple doctors. 506 00:30:56,567.3469388 --> 00:30:58,67.3469388 They're the only ones, couple doctors. 507 00:30:58,67.3469388 --> 00:30:58,247.3469388 Yeah. 508 00:30:58,247.3469388 --> 00:31:04,67.3469388 And I'm like, okay, like that you worked really hard for that degree and that is how you identify and like. 509 00:31:04,727.3469388 --> 00:31:05,447.3469388 Dr. 510 00:31:05,447.3469388 --> 00:31:07,247.3469388 Sal, I am so sorry. 511 00:31:07,457.3469388 --> 00:31:12,587.3469388 Like, you know, I, we will, I will make sure most people would rather first name. 512 00:31:12,587.3469388 --> 00:31:14,57.3469388 I'm so glad to know that about you. 513 00:31:14,57.3469388 --> 00:31:15,257.3469388 And then it's like a thank you. 514 00:31:15,257.3469388 --> 00:31:19,727.3469388 It's like you shared it as a thank you, and then we know, and then every time we call Dr. 515 00:31:19,787.3469388 --> 00:31:23,537.3469388 Sal, that's, we know it, so it's true. 516 00:31:23,567.3469388 --> 00:31:23,627.3469388 Yeah. 517 00:31:23,627.3469388 --> 00:31:23,897.3469388 You got it. 518 00:31:23,897.3469388 --> 00:31:25,277.3469388 They always, they'll, they'll correct you. 519 00:31:25,332.3469388 --> 00:31:27,737.3469388 They'll tell you, you'll, they'll correct you every time. 520 00:31:27,797.3469388 --> 00:31:33,467.3469388 I think that, I think that's like a bigger point to take, and maybe I'll have to write about that at some point, but I like that idea. 521 00:31:33,732.3469388 --> 00:31:34,692.3469388 I think about this a lot. 522 00:31:34,692.3469388 --> 00:31:41,772.3469388 Like we don't have to, you can in our, your mind decide all these things and all these different scenarios, they will tell you. 523 00:31:41,802.3469388 --> 00:31:46,932.3469388 So like I have, you can look at it on my website if you want, but I have eight phrases not to use in fundraising. 524 00:31:47,262.3469388 --> 00:31:52,237.3469388 And one is like, is this a good time to talk? Like they will tell you if it's not. 525 00:31:52,287.3469388 --> 00:31:59,667.3469388 Or I also even recommend never saying, do you have any questions? Because if people have questions, they will ask you. 526 00:31:59,667.3469388 --> 00:32:03,567.3469388 And that's a moment that you wanna always present yourself as the host of the call. 527 00:32:03,567.3469388 --> 00:32:10,947.3469388 So you can say, what's your initial thought on this? Like, how are you, like, what are you absorbing so far? Like there's a ways to like gauge their. 528 00:32:11,527.3469388 --> 00:32:17,197.3469388 Engagement without being like, do you have any questions? Which I just think sounds so customer servicey and, yeah. 529 00:32:17,257.3469388 --> 00:32:17,737.3469388 Cold. 530 00:32:18,12.3469388 --> 00:32:19,807.3469388 And we don't ever wanna read cold. 531 00:32:19,867.3469388 --> 00:32:22,237.3469388 Like that's not the point of these calls. 532 00:32:22,852.3469388 --> 00:32:23,782.3469388 Yes, I'd love that. 533 00:32:24,112.3469388 --> 00:32:25,702.3469388 Well, we are getting towards our time. 534 00:32:25,792.3469388 --> 00:32:25,882.3469388 Mm-hmm. 535 00:32:26,122.3469388 --> 00:32:29,812.3469388 So, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Absolutely. 536 00:32:29,812.3469388 --> 00:32:33,232.3469388 So LinkedIn is definitely my networking happy place. 537 00:32:33,232.3469388 --> 00:32:41,62.3469388 I think Sarah, that's how you and I connected originally, so feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn if you listen, if you've got thoughts, questions, pulses. 538 00:32:41,362.3469388 --> 00:32:45,442.3469388 Also, if you decide you wanna get on the phones, I would love to hear what happens when you're on the phone. 539 00:32:45,442.3469388 --> 00:32:46,402.3469388 So reach out to me. 540 00:32:46,682.3469388 --> 00:32:47,822.3469388 You can also find me at my website. 541 00:32:47,987.3469388 --> 00:32:49,607.3469388 Is my name, kel haney.com. 542 00:32:49,637.3469388 --> 00:32:52,67.3469388 I've got that eight phrases not to use in fundraising. 543 00:32:52,67.3469388 --> 00:32:55,17.3469388 I also have a guide of specific tips for mid-level. 544 00:32:55,17.3469388 --> 00:32:59,457.3469388 And I also have a link if you wanna just grab 30 minutes on my calendar just to talk. 545 00:32:59,507.3469388 --> 00:33:03,77.3469388 I'd love to hear what's going on with your orgs and see how we can potentially collaborate. 546 00:33:03,887.3469388 --> 00:33:04,877.3469388 That's awesome. 547 00:33:04,907.3469388 --> 00:33:16,697.3469388 Okay, and then my last question for every guest is, what is one thing you want every nonprofit to know? I want every nonprofit to know that it is vulnerable. 548 00:33:17,417.3469388 --> 00:33:22,547.3469388 To ask for money, and it is vulnerable to work in not-for-profits, period. 549 00:33:22,577.3469388 --> 00:33:33,467.3469388 And the best thing we can do is be kind and gentle, not just with our, our donors, not just with our colleagues, but like first and foremost, like start with ourselves. 550 00:33:33,767.3469388 --> 00:33:42,437.3469388 Like to really figure out what do you need to do to be kind to yourself today? Because now more than ever, it's, it's really challenging and really hard. 551 00:33:42,437.3469388 --> 00:33:48,437.3469388 So like, what's the extra act of kindness you can offer yourself today? Yes, yes, yes, yes. 552 00:33:48,437.3469388 --> 00:33:49,157.3469388 I love that. 553 00:33:49,157.3469388 --> 00:33:49,607.3469388 I love that. 554 00:33:49,607.3469388 --> 00:33:51,647.3469388 Thank you so much for being on this show. 555 00:33:51,647.3469388 --> 00:33:52,218.3469388 It's my pleasure. 556 00:33:52,218.3469388 --> 00:33:53,147.3469388 Totally my pleasure, Sarah. 557 00:33:53,147.3469388 --> 00:33:53,567.3469388 Thank you. 558 00:33:53,627.3469388 --> 00:33:54,887.3469388 It was so much fun. 559 00:33:54,887.3469388 --> 00:34:00,407.3469388 And to our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our conversation and I look forward to talking to you again next week. 560 00:34:01,407.3469388 --> 00:34:04,387.3469388 That's a wrap for today's episode of Nonprofit411. 561 00:34:04,767.3469388 --> 00:34:11,517.3469388 I hope our discussion with nonprofit professionals and experts gave you actionable ideas to take your fundraising efforts to the next level. 562 00:34:11,997.3469388 --> 00:34:18,237.3469388 At Nonprofit411, I partner with leaders like you to develop strategies and guide you through implementation. 563 00:34:18,597.3469388 --> 00:34:20,737.3469388 Visit www.nonprofit411.org 564 00:34:20,757.3469388 --> 00:34:23,427.3469388 to learn more, and let's take the first step together. 565 00:34:23,607.3469388 --> 00:34:24,537.3469388 See you next time. 566 00:34:24,932.3469388 --> 00:34:25,152.3469388 Bye.