Lessons from a Lifetime in Nonprofits with Steve Eckman | Nonprofit411

In this episode of Nonprofit411, Sarah Barton sits down with Steve Eckman, Chancellor of York University and Interim President of Bethany College, to discuss his decades-long career in nonprofit leadership and the evolution of fundraising strategies. Drawing from his experiences in higher education and foundation work, Steve shares invaluable insights into building sustainable nonprofits, navigating donor relationships, and adapting to changing donor expectations in a technology-driven world.

Key topics include the importance of aligning missions with donor priorities, leveraging technology for accountability, and fostering meaningful relationships with donors. Steve also reflects on the challenges and opportunities for new fundraisers, emphasizing the importance of people-centric approaches in a sector increasingly shaped by digital interactions.

Resources:

• York University: www.york.edu
• Bethany College: www.bethanylb.edu
• Grant Writing Proposal Guide: Nonprofit411 Grant Guide

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Nonprofit411, where we dive into resources and strategies that help nonprofits not just survive, but truly thrive.
I'm Sarah Barton, your host and fundraising advocate.
.346938776Each episode, we bring you inspiring conversations with experts in fundraising, sustainability, and best practices to equip you with the tools and confidence you need to make a real impact. 4 00:00:25,247.346938776 --> 00:00:25,567.346938776 Hello. 5 00:00:25,587.346938776 --> 00:00:31,677.346938776 Welcome to the Nonprofit411 podcast, where we explore resources and strategies to help your nonprofit thrive. 6 00:00:31,987.346938776 --> 00:00:32,887.346938776 I'm Sarah Barton. 7 00:00:32,887.346938776 --> 00:00:41,257.346938776 And today I'm excited to welcome Steve Ekman, chancellor of York university and interim president of Bethany college. 8 00:00:41,257.346938776 --> 00:00:41,737.346938776 Welcome. 9 00:00:42,697.346938776 --> 00:00:43,67.346438776 Welcome. 10 00:00:43,67.346438776 --> 00:00:43,767.346938776 It's good to be with you. 11 00:00:44,837.346938776 --> 00:00:45,247.346938776 Yes. 12 00:00:45,247.346938776 --> 00:00:46,827.346938776 I'm so excited to have you on. 13 00:00:47,317.346938776 --> 00:00:59,867.346938776 You and I worked together years and years ago at Ohio Valley university, and I consider you one of my Greatest mentors, you and Joy Jones, you're right there with Joy Jones. 14 00:01:00,167.346938776 --> 00:01:02,417.346938776 Well, that's, that's, that's sweet. 15 00:01:02,427.346938776 --> 00:01:05,407.345938776 And I'm very appreciative of being included in that company. 16 00:01:06,117.345938776 --> 00:01:06,607.345938775 Yeah. 17 00:01:07,67.346938776 --> 00:01:09,367.345938776 So you guys really helped shape me as a. 18 00:01:10,257.346938775 --> 00:01:13,597.346938776 As a fresh, I was a fresh employee at that time. 19 00:01:13,597.346938776 --> 00:01:22,227.346938775 And so I learned a lot about nonprofits and fundraising and humans and humanity and being an adult. 20 00:01:24,7.346938775 --> 00:01:25,267.346938776 Well, yeah. 21 00:01:25,267.346938776 --> 00:01:26,567.346938776 And you were fresh. 22 00:01:27,567.346938776 --> 00:01:28,177.346938776 Yes. 23 00:01:30,107.346938775 --> 00:01:32,237.346938776 I was just a little thing then. 24 00:01:32,587.346938775 --> 00:01:36,447.346938776 And, and that was like the beginning of my family hood too. 25 00:01:36,447.346938776 --> 00:01:37,187.346938775 So like, I was. 26 00:01:37,792.346938775 --> 00:01:40,252.34693878 experiencing everything new for the first time. 27 00:01:41,272.34693878 --> 00:01:49,467.34693878 So can you, before we start, I usually ask my guests, what is your favorite hobby? Well, this promotes interesting conversation. 28 00:01:49,627.34693878 --> 00:01:55,727.34693878 The thing I like to do most is is, is hunting, especially elk hunting in the, in the mountains of New Mexico. 29 00:01:57,197.34693878 --> 00:01:58,597.34693878 In the mountains of New Mexico. 30 00:01:58,597.34693878 --> 00:02:00,487.34693878 You don't hear those words together too often. 31 00:02:02,587.34693878 --> 00:02:04,947.34693878 West Virginia has way more mountains than New Mexico. 32 00:02:05,867.34693878 --> 00:02:10,857.34693878 Well, except the Rockies are in New Mexico and they're, they're the real mountains. 33 00:02:10,937.34693878 --> 00:02:11,457.34693878 Yeah. 34 00:02:11,687.34693878 --> 00:02:12,627.34693878 Yeah, that's true. 35 00:02:13,207.34693878 --> 00:02:14,587.34693878 So, well, excellent. 36 00:02:14,957.34693878 --> 00:02:18,787.34693878 Well, tell us a little bit about where you're at now and what you're doing. 37 00:02:18,977.34693878 --> 00:02:27,337.34693878 And then we'll talk about just kind of the changing landscape of fundraising over the years that you've been involved in nonprofits. 38 00:02:28,357.34693878 --> 00:02:39,557.34593878 Okay, well, I was president of York College for almost 12 years from basically 2010 through in, into the 20s. 39 00:02:40,247.34693878 --> 00:02:57,797.34593878 And after I retired from there, I Went to our our farm out in the countryside of Nebraska and was living the life and became, I became a member of something called the registry, which is, has been presidents and CEOs and CFOs. 40 00:02:58,427.34693878 --> 00:03:08,87.34793878 And they they called upon me to ask me if I would look at being an interim president for Bethany college, their, their president left unexpectedly. 41 00:03:08,712.34793878 --> 00:03:10,222.34793878 in December of last year. 42 00:03:10,742.34793878 --> 00:03:17,712.34793878 And so they were looking for an interim to kind of hold the place together until till they had an opportunity to select a new president. 43 00:03:17,712.34793878 --> 00:03:23,212.34793878 So they're in that process right now and I'm just I'm just filling in until that process is over. 44 00:03:24,592.34793878 --> 00:03:25,752.34843878 I can't believe you're just filling in. 45 00:03:25,752.34843878 --> 00:03:27,272.34893878 You always have a lot to contribute. 46 00:03:27,282.34893878 --> 00:03:31,932.34893878 So I'm sure that they are valuing this opportunity. 47 00:03:32,592.34893878 --> 00:03:41,162.34893878 So you've been in nonprofits your entire career? Before I knew you, you were in a nonprofit, but pretty much you've worked in nonprofits your entire career, right? Yes. 48 00:03:41,352.34893878 --> 00:03:52,602.34893878 Either, either in higher education, faith based higher education, or for a while I was the grant officer for a for a private foundation and gave away money instead of asking for it. 49 00:03:53,942.34993878 --> 00:03:54,322.34943878 Yeah. 50 00:03:54,322.34943878 --> 00:03:56,32.34893878 I keep saying that's my retirement plan. 51 00:03:56,42.34893878 --> 00:03:57,682.34893878 I want to give away money when I retire. 52 00:03:57,942.34893878 --> 00:04:01,772.34893878 Like, so I won't, I won't stop working because I can't imagine life without work. 53 00:04:02,322.34893878 --> 00:04:02,812.34893878 But. 54 00:04:03,307.34893878 --> 00:04:07,907.34893878 Giving away money seems to be the easier side of the equation. 55 00:04:08,177.34893878 --> 00:04:09,987.34893878 Surprisingly, it's, it's not. 56 00:04:10,87.34893878 --> 00:04:12,707.34893878 And, you know, there, there are a couple of wrinkles to that. 57 00:04:12,747.34893878 --> 00:04:22,67.34993878 But, you know, especially with a private foundation, they have their own interests and their own their own projects that they want to accomplish. 58 00:04:22,97.34993878 --> 00:04:45,517.24993878 And a lot of times, Dealing with people who asked for money and either did not get it, or more importantly, didn't get a second grant after they got a first one, was always an interesting dynamic and one of my answers always was to the question, why didn't they give me any money? And my, my pat answer was because it's their money and they can do anything they want with it. 59 00:04:46,417.34993878 --> 00:04:53,957.34993878 And I think a lot of times, I think a lot of times we get tied up in the importance of our project or our mission or whatever. 60 00:04:53,997.34993878 --> 00:04:59,847.34993878 And we, we don't realize it doesn't necessarily align with all the people that we're going to, to ask for money. 61 00:05:01,177.34993878 --> 00:05:13,127.34993878 I think that's such a great point though, because I do see, I've experienced that with nonprofits where they didn't get grant funding that maybe they've relied on for a long time and they don't have another plan. 62 00:05:13,147.34993878 --> 00:05:14,477.34993878 In fact, it's kind of why. 63 00:05:14,937.34993878 --> 00:05:40,167.34993878 I've built nonprofit 411 because I think the nonprofit sector has neglected some of the traditional funding streams and relied really heavily on grants especially smaller, small to medium, well, not so much medium, but the smaller nonprofits that are newer, they kind of entered into the realm of nonprofit work. 64 00:05:40,677.34993878 --> 00:05:45,747.34993878 Because they could apply for grants then, but not realizing that fundraising is so much better. 65 00:05:46,47.34993878 --> 00:05:46,887.34993878 Bigger than that. 66 00:05:47,297.34993878 --> 00:05:47,687.34993878 Yeah. 67 00:05:48,107.34993878 --> 00:06:04,917.35093878 And it's the sustainability, you know, it's almost what we're seeing in higher education right now, for example, is the COVID money could end up sinking a lot of schools because they got used to this influx of cash and they didn't account for life after the grants. 68 00:06:05,657.35093878 --> 00:06:06,907.35093878 And so all of a sudden. 69 00:06:07,362.35093878 --> 00:06:21,392.35093878 When you cut off that spigot of, of extra funding you got to find a way if you, if you expand at all, which a lot of schools did they not only kept their employees, but they hired more and started programs and everything. 70 00:06:21,392.35193878 --> 00:06:26,922.35143878 Then all of a sudden, there's not sustainability to find people to fund those programs beyond. 71 00:06:26,922.35143878 --> 00:06:37,92.35193878 And, you know, if people don't have the same vision you do they aren't going to be interested in continuing to pay for something, even if they helped start it up. 72 00:06:38,712.35193878 --> 00:06:39,932.35193878 Yes, yes. 73 00:06:40,222.35193878 --> 00:06:55,232.35193878 Well, and so you've being in higher ed and I know just because of my history in higher ed like sustainability is it's a tricky balance of a variety of things, but one of the biggest balances is. 74 00:06:55,332.45193878 --> 00:07:27,712.45093878 And so it's tricky, what advice do you have to nonprofits as they, you know, newer nonprofits, especially as they're getting into the game, what would you say is your advice to them to help build a sustainable organization? Well, obviously I think the most important thing is find like minded people who you know, people, people donate money or give money for basically two reasons to save lives or to change lives. 75 00:07:28,742.45193878 --> 00:07:37,402.45293878 And if you can align your mission or your, your asks with those with those items, with those purposes, you have a much better chance. 76 00:07:38,552.45293878 --> 00:07:51,932.45193878 I think a lot of times what happens with the smaller nonprofits, especially as they get used to doing projects and they raise money for projects, but that's not a sustainable income stream for the long term. 77 00:07:52,422.45193878 --> 00:07:59,277.45293878 You need to find people who align their, their Their mission, their goals, their desires with years. 78 00:07:59,307.45293878 --> 00:08:06,307.45293878 And I think that's why, you know, if you see the, I know you, if you watch TV, you see the advertisements for St. 79 00:08:06,307.45293878 --> 00:08:10,857.45293878 Jude's you, and, and you see it in, in your heartstrings are just pulled. 80 00:08:10,937.45193878 --> 00:08:18,627.45293878 I mean, I, that tunnels to towers, all those things where, where it really is making a legitimate, different those. 81 00:08:19,497.45293878 --> 00:08:23,407.45293878 Those organizations really have a, a, a great appeal. 82 00:08:23,417.45293878 --> 00:08:28,827.45293878 If you can find an appeal that aligns with with people who want to give money. 83 00:08:28,837.45293878 --> 00:08:39,637.45293878 And once again, if, if you can go out and say, here's the lives that we are changing, here's the difference we are making in, in our society, or here's the lives we are saving. 84 00:08:40,147.45293878 --> 00:08:47,507.45243878 I think those things are more sustainable than, hey, we need a, we need a new remodeling in the student center. 85 00:08:48,547.45243878 --> 00:08:49,107.45243878 Right. 86 00:08:49,237.45243878 --> 00:08:49,767.45243878 Right. 87 00:08:50,397.45243878 --> 00:08:52,167.45243878 But organizations. 88 00:08:52,257.45243878 --> 00:09:09,767.45243878 So, and if you do it like that, then you are raising typically unrestricted funds, right? If you're actually appealing to people and then they can, you know, make that renovation to the student, the student life center or whatever it is, because you'll have that, you'll have those partners in it. 89 00:09:09,767.45243878 --> 00:09:10,67.45243878 Yeah. 90 00:09:10,67.45243878 --> 00:09:11,967.45243878 So I really think of it as partnership. 91 00:09:12,597.45243878 --> 00:09:21,427.45243878 So you, I had Tim Johnson on, and I said, like, you guys are the old guard, right? We have a new guard coming in and. 92 00:09:22,27.45243878 --> 00:09:35,977.45243878 The difference, I mean, the difference I see, you know, in terms of the new guard versus the old guard, if we want to call them that is that our socialization with each other has really shifted over the years. 93 00:09:36,367.45243878 --> 00:09:45,917.45243878 And so there's a lot of new learning for younger people going into the field of fundraising because socialization has changed. 94 00:09:46,187.45243878 --> 00:09:51,317.45243878 What do you see? Has really shifted because you, you continue to work with fundraisers. 95 00:09:51,347.45243878 --> 00:09:54,807.45243878 You worked with them you know, when you started and you worked with them now. 96 00:09:54,807.45243878 --> 00:10:09,77.45243878 So what, what do you think are the challenges and what do you think are the opportunities? Obviously technology is the biggest change and that technology has come with I wouldn't say with baggage, but it comes with accountability that didn't used to be there. 97 00:10:09,737.45243878 --> 00:10:26,437.45143878 You know, I remember back in the early days when you talk to a donor and let, let's say it's a family and they're, they're getting ready to retire off the family farm and they're going to, they're going to leave that farm to someone or leave the proceeds of that farm to someone. 98 00:10:26,867.45143878 --> 00:10:30,927.45243878 And you'd hear things like, well, you folks know best how this ought to be used. 99 00:10:30,937.45243878 --> 00:10:34,407.45243878 So you just take the money and use it the way you need, need to. 100 00:10:35,277.45243878 --> 00:10:36,457.45243878 Well, since that time. 101 00:10:36,707.45243878 --> 00:10:44,467.45243878 There's been enough fraud and abuse, even in the nonprofit world, that this is a much savvier generation. 102 00:10:46,77.45243878 --> 00:10:54,47.45243878 And what you see now is here is the money I want to give you, and here's how I want it to be used, and I want to report. 103 00:10:54,672.45243878 --> 00:11:08,32.45143878 You know, on the benefits who got, who, who got the money, how it was used and, and all those kinds of things, technology makes that doable in some ways that we didn't have before. 104 00:11:08,42.45243878 --> 00:11:20,742.45243878 But at the same time it also puts a lot of strain on institutions because sometimes, I mean, there, there have been times when I've turned down money because I couldn't fulfill. 105 00:11:21,82.45243878 --> 00:11:23,912.45243878 The donor restrictions on how it would be used. 106 00:11:24,432.45243878 --> 00:11:29,292.45243878 And I think some nonprofits have gotten in trouble because they've accepted the money. 107 00:11:30,122.45243878 --> 00:11:32,512.45243878 Then not used it the way they said they would use it. 108 00:11:32,562.45243878 --> 00:11:35,752.45343878 And then of course, when you go back you're not, you're not getting any more. 109 00:11:36,372.45343878 --> 00:11:45,412.45343878 So once again, I think the technology has, has helped us, but it's also added a layer of accountability, which I think probably nonprofits need. 110 00:11:46,262.45343878 --> 00:11:58,292.45343878 But it also incurs a more expense for record keeping for software systems, for, you know, all those kinds of things that that didn't used to, didn't have to be there before. 111 00:11:59,372.45243878 --> 00:11:59,792.45243878 Yeah. 112 00:12:00,62.45343878 --> 00:12:07,402.45343878 Well, and I think it makes it more complex for the small nonprofits that are just a couple of people, you know, the, it, because they're trying to manage it all. 113 00:12:07,402.45343878 --> 00:12:15,902.45343878 And I can say as a entrepreneur, like, you know, trying to manage it all yourself is, virtually impossible. 114 00:12:15,912.45343878 --> 00:12:19,422.45343878 I don't know what I would do if I couldn't, you know, outsource some of these things. 115 00:12:19,422.45343878 --> 00:12:21,462.45343878 And so I think that you're right. 116 00:12:21,482.45343878 --> 00:12:31,112.45243878 It's a requirement really from the donor's perspective now, and you, you have to work with organizations that have skills at helping you do that. 117 00:12:31,132.45243878 --> 00:12:33,372.45343878 If you're, if you're a really small shop. 118 00:12:34,477.45343878 --> 00:12:45,587.45343878 Yeah, there's there's software out that helped you do that, but you know, we just went through a software transition and no telling how many records we lost or that we're having to recreate. 119 00:12:45,617.45343878 --> 00:12:51,237.45343878 I mean, it adds a whole layer of administration that you didn't didn't used to have before. 120 00:12:51,657.45343878 --> 00:12:54,477.45443878 Let me reach and see if I can find something on my desk. 121 00:12:58,807.45343878 --> 00:13:00,267.45343878 Yeah, I guess I can show you this. 122 00:13:00,267.45343878 --> 00:13:01,457.45343878 I'm going to hold this up for a minute. 123 00:13:02,672.45343878 --> 00:13:04,622.45343878 This is from a $10 million donor. 124 00:13:05,972.45343878 --> 00:13:10,22.45343878 Uhhuh He's giving me a million dollars a year for 10 years, and this is his spreadsheet. 125 00:13:10,872.45343878 --> 00:13:18,782.45343878 It, it's in, it's interesting the difference between the old school and the new, new school. 126 00:13:18,782.45343878 --> 00:13:21,362.45343878 You know, no one today I would get an Excel spreadsheet. 127 00:13:21,362.45343878 --> 00:13:22,412.45343878 This the same donor. 128 00:13:22,442.45343878 --> 00:13:30,652.45343878 Very, interestingly enough, we had a, had a meeting scheduled and for that meeting he was sent a calendar invite. 129 00:13:30,802.45343878 --> 00:13:33,472.45343878 And so I saw him and I said, what? I'm sorry you missed the meeting. 130 00:13:33,472.45343878 --> 00:13:34,612.45343878 He said, well, I didn't know about. 131 00:13:34,822.45343878 --> 00:13:43,362.45343878 And I said, well, we sent you a calendar invite and he pulled out his date timer and opened it up and looked at it and said, well, I don't see it here anywhere. 132 00:13:43,942.45343878 --> 00:13:51,992.45343878 And so, you know, there, there is a gap that needs to be bridged in, in sometimes that gap, for example, if you have an old donor. 133 00:13:52,347.45343878 --> 00:13:55,857.45343878 who's used to old school giving you donations like that. 134 00:13:56,257.45343878 --> 00:14:00,897.45343878 And then their son or their grandson, or you know, takes it over. 135 00:14:01,227.45343878 --> 00:14:10,977.45343878 And all of a sudden there's a reporting requirement put on something that you didn't expect to have a reporting requirement on because the original donor didn't necessarily. 136 00:14:11,537.45343878 --> 00:14:12,737.45343878 Want that or need that. 137 00:14:12,737.45343878 --> 00:14:17,267.45343878 But now on down the line, people say, well, I want to, I want to know where that scholarship went. 138 00:14:17,307.45343878 --> 00:14:19,977.45343878 Who got, who got my grandpa's scholarship this year. 139 00:14:19,977.55343878 --> 00:14:29,307.45143878 And so there is a transition that's taking place in, in another, another generation, you won't have any of the old school they're, they're not going to be around anymore. 140 00:14:29,317.45243878 --> 00:14:31,817.45243878 It's going to be all the new, new technology. 141 00:14:32,687.45243878 --> 00:14:33,97.45243878 Yeah. 142 00:14:33,427.45243878 --> 00:14:35,327.45243878 Though I find as I age. 143 00:14:35,952.45243878 --> 00:14:38,512.45243878 I need more analog in my life. 144 00:14:38,662.45243878 --> 00:14:40,972.45243878 And so there's a lot of attraction back to that. 145 00:14:40,972.45243878 --> 00:14:43,352.45243878 So it'll swing the pendulum will swing. 146 00:14:44,182.45243878 --> 00:14:44,272.45243878 Yeah. 147 00:14:44,372.45243878 --> 00:14:45,922.45143878 I guess we saw that in the last election. 148 00:14:47,372.45243878 --> 00:14:47,792.45243878 That's right. 149 00:14:49,82.45243878 --> 00:14:49,572.45243878 Yeah. 150 00:14:49,812.45243878 --> 00:14:55,582.45143878 So, you know, what let me think what I want to say here. 151 00:14:57,627.45143878 --> 00:15:14,712.45143878 So how do we, how do we train our new fundraisers? Like, what is the best training then as we see these transitions and we see some of these trends, what are you finding? I feel like I feel like I know your responses. 152 00:15:14,932.45143878 --> 00:15:23,92.45143878 So, but what do you think is the best way to train it? What if I get it wrong? I don't think you'll get it wrong. 153 00:15:23,102.45143878 --> 00:15:24,512.45143878 I think you value people. 154 00:15:24,892.45143878 --> 00:15:36,112.45143878 Well, I have a, I have a couple of situations where I've actually dealt with this because there's a there's someone who's coming up through advancement and they they called me. 155 00:15:36,382.45143878 --> 00:15:44,272.45143878 At the institution I used to be president of, and they said, we've got three or four donors here that we don't have a relationship with outside of you. 156 00:15:45,192.45143878 --> 00:15:50,832.45143878 And, and one of them had, had given me 18 million over my 12 years of my presidency. 157 00:15:51,392.45143878 --> 00:15:58,82.45143878 So, you know, he was obviously a, a, a big supporter, but they said, we keep sending him proposals. 158 00:15:58,677.45143878 --> 00:16:00,367.45143878 And he doesn't even respond to us. 159 00:16:01,557.45143878 --> 00:16:12,417.45143878 And I said, that's because you've just gotten in the line of the other people who are after his, what, 500 million that he has, and there's nothing special about you. 160 00:16:13,157.45143878 --> 00:16:15,777.45043878 What happens is you have to build a relationship. 161 00:16:16,407.45143878 --> 00:16:26,207.45143878 And so fundraising basically is building relationships with people and then understanding, you know, I remember even when I was at Ohio Valley going, seeing one of our major donors. 162 00:16:26,997.45143878 --> 00:16:38,227.45043878 And I went in with the person who, you know, very well that I always had some problems with and we'd get in there and he would just talk the whole time. 163 00:16:39,367.45143877 --> 00:16:43,292.3514388 And I say, the way you raise money is you let people know. 164 00:16:43,732.4514388 --> 00:16:59,672.4514388 You encourage people to talk and you find out what they're interested in and then you guide your discussion to what they want to do and what they're interested in and where they want to go, rather than just because, you know, once again, working in the foundation world, we get a lot of proposals every year. 165 00:17:00,732.4504388 --> 00:17:04,992.3514388 The people who got money either had a really compelling case. 166 00:17:05,482.4514388 --> 00:17:10,662.4514388 Or had some kind of relationship with us that, that was worthwhile to the, to the foundation. 167 00:17:11,372.4514388 --> 00:17:13,692.4514388 And I think, I think that's still the key. 168 00:17:13,812.4504388 --> 00:17:15,572.4514388 People, people are still the key. 169 00:17:15,722.4514388 --> 00:17:32,792.4504388 And if you don't if you're just putting together spreadsheets and sending out information, every once in a while, you may get a hit, but you're going to be much more successful if you know who you're talking to and know what's important to them and know, know what they want to accomplish both with their lives and with their wealth. 170 00:17:33,172.4504388 --> 00:17:38,702.4504388 Because that that's where the, that's where the nexus comes together in, in raising money. 171 00:17:39,782.4504388 --> 00:17:44,632.4504388 Did I get it right? You did, because that's what you always told me. 172 00:17:44,632.4504388 --> 00:17:48,662.4494388 You always told me like, pay attention to the people. 173 00:17:50,272.4504388 --> 00:17:55,82.4504388 And that's definitely something that I feel like has really guided everything that I do. 174 00:17:55,132.4504388 --> 00:18:01,502.4504388 You know, I look at, okay, so let's look at the person, like what's really going on with the person. 175 00:18:01,502.4504388 --> 00:18:03,432.4504388 Because, and I think. 176 00:18:03,867.4504388 --> 00:18:05,617.4504388 This has benefited me. 177 00:18:05,987.4504388 --> 00:18:07,927.4504388 It's my entire career for sure. 178 00:18:08,167.4504388 --> 00:18:28,247.4504388 But you know, I worked in human resources and I think that, and not just in human resources, I've actually, I see it across the sector and in every, in every aspect, but it's so easy to go for the path of least resistance, which is the hands off. 179 00:18:29,632.4514388 --> 00:18:34,662.4514388 You know, unknown, not face to face option. 180 00:18:34,852.4514388 --> 00:18:35,962.4514388 And I'm so guilty of it. 181 00:18:35,972.4514388 --> 00:18:38,782.4514388 Cause I, I hate picking up the phone and making phone calls. 182 00:18:39,142.4514388 --> 00:18:41,12.4514388 I have to force myself and schedule it in. 183 00:18:41,592.4514388 --> 00:18:42,592.4514388 I'm right there with you. 184 00:18:42,662.4514388 --> 00:18:52,122.4524388 You know, that, that reminded me of another, this I told you this person from my former institution asked me to, to contact a couple of donors. 185 00:18:52,862.4524388 --> 00:18:59,727.4524388 And as we had the conversation, he said, now, Here's what we want the money for. 186 00:19:01,77.4524388 --> 00:19:07,97.4524388 And, and I said, well, I'm not sure this person that you're asking me to go see is, is interested in that. 187 00:19:07,907.4524388 --> 00:19:14,597.4524388 I said, so is it okay to just ask, ask for money? And, and he said, yeah. 188 00:19:15,257.4524388 --> 00:19:15,797.4524388 But then. 189 00:19:16,417.4534388 --> 00:19:21,687.4534388 I went to see this person and I was no longer in a role at the university. 190 00:19:21,687.4534388 --> 00:19:34,87.4529388 I went to see this person and his wife had died nine months before, and we've probably spent an hour and a half at a restaurant talking him crying most of the time and talking about his wife and how much he missed her. 191 00:19:34,87.4529388 --> 00:19:45,847.4534388 And I mean, they'd been married for 65 years and, and I got back and, and the advancement guy asked me, so how much did you get? And I said, I didn't get anything. 192 00:19:45,847.4534388 --> 00:19:46,927.4534388 I didn't ask for anything. 193 00:19:47,787.4534388 --> 00:19:50,107.4534388 And he said, well, that's why you went down there. 194 00:19:50,107.4534388 --> 00:19:55,427.4524388 Why didn't you make the ask? I said, because it wasn't the right time or the right atmosphere. 195 00:19:55,897.4524388 --> 00:19:58,727.4534388 And I said, real honestly, that's not how you raise money. 196 00:19:59,547.4534388 --> 00:20:11,377.4544388 A week later, the college got a call from this man's daughter asking 000 in her father's name because I'd spent time with him. 197 00:20:11,427.4544388 --> 00:20:18,162.4544388 And, and I've kept up that conversation since, you know, I call him every Every couple of months or so on to see how he's doing. 198 00:20:18,862.4544388 --> 00:20:24,2.4544388 And, and that's, but I tried to explain to the advancement person. 199 00:20:24,12.4544388 --> 00:20:29,222.4544388 It's not because we needed money and it's not because he had extra money. 200 00:20:30,272.4544388 --> 00:20:35,462.4544388 It's because we reached out and, and helped him eat. 201 00:20:35,502.4554388 --> 00:20:39,702.4544388 You know, we, we reached out at a time when he really needed somebody just to talk to. 202 00:20:41,692.4544388 --> 00:20:42,292.4544388 Yes. 203 00:20:42,492.4544388 --> 00:20:45,22.4544388 And it's, and you're right. 204 00:20:45,62.4544388 --> 00:20:48,892.4544388 Like when we engage in other people's lives. 205 00:20:49,342.4544388 --> 00:20:58,532.4544388 We are like a little blip in their timeline, you know, and so like it, that's, that's not how people work. 206 00:20:58,812.4544388 --> 00:21:00,262.4544388 Like people don't work with blips. 207 00:21:00,262.4544388 --> 00:21:07,482.4544388 We work with shining stars, right? When that person is a shining star in our life, we know it cause they keep, they're there. 208 00:21:07,482.5544388 --> 00:21:14,602.4544388 They're shining even in our dark moments, you know, in our successes, they they're regularly present. 209 00:21:15,252.4544388 --> 00:21:37,602.4544388 And so I do think it's a challenge that younger fundraisers are going to have to learn, I think that they learn it as they go through the process because you do learn that people are people are people and and people are entering into this profession for noble reasons, you know, they have something that they're passionate about that they really want to share with the world. 210 00:21:38,72.4544388 --> 00:21:40,132.4544388 And so it is finding that balance. 211 00:21:40,572.4544388 --> 00:21:43,422.4544388 And I think that just over time young people have. 212 00:21:45,32.4544388 --> 00:21:48,602.4544388 Young people have decreased in their interactions with people. 213 00:21:48,612.4544388 --> 00:21:50,32.4544388 So they're not as refined. 214 00:21:50,412.4544388 --> 00:21:58,22.4544388 I was writing something today about developmental stages and we don't get to skip developmental stages. 215 00:21:58,202.4544388 --> 00:22:06,222.4544388 You know, it may be delayed, but eventually the world will require us to go through that stage if we want to get to the next one. 216 00:22:06,272.4544388 --> 00:22:06,652.4544388 Right. 217 00:22:07,412.4544388 --> 00:22:10,652.4544388 And so, I feel like that's something. 218 00:22:11,692.4544388 --> 00:22:20,412.4544388 That young professionals and they've always had to learn it, but I do think it's a challenge just because we interact so much more in non personal ways. 219 00:22:20,752.4534388 --> 00:22:21,2.4534388 Yeah. 220 00:22:21,2.4534388 --> 00:22:24,12.4544388 I think, I think we're seeing that in a lot of, a lot of ways. 221 00:22:24,32.4544388 --> 00:22:31,522.4554388 I mean, I, what did I hear yesterday on the news that almost 80 percent of government workers work from their homes now. 222 00:22:32,932.4554388 --> 00:22:39,222.4544388 And you know, when, when people are called back to the office, they're just, they're quitting rather than going back to the office. 223 00:22:39,242.4544388 --> 00:22:52,837.4544388 And I'm thinking, how are you ever going to establish relationships? And, and get yourself in a position of being able to what arbitrate for decisions, have, have discussions, be able to convince people of your side of the argument. 224 00:22:53,487.4544388 --> 00:22:58,607.4544388 Social media takes all the personality out of those kinds of conversations and you can't really. 225 00:22:59,392.4554388 --> 00:23:00,572.4554388 You can't really overcome it. 226 00:23:01,92.4554388 --> 00:23:02,962.4554388 You, you gotta, you gotta get out there. 227 00:23:03,252.4554388 --> 00:23:12,22.4554388 So I, you know, I, I see that especially in my grandkids who, you know, they just love being on their phone or being, you know, playing games or whatever. 228 00:23:12,692.4554388 --> 00:23:26,852.4554388 And then these kids go to college and they sit in a room and play games and they aren't, they're missing one of the best experiences they could have, which is socializing and learning how to, to deal with people on a, on a personal level, I mean, I, yeah. 229 00:23:28,272.4554388 --> 00:23:40,302.4554388 So, you know, even, even conversations like this are better, but I love having meetings across the table where I can, you know, interact with people on a more personal level. 230 00:23:41,812.4554388 --> 00:23:42,332.4554388 Yeah. 231 00:23:42,482.4554388 --> 00:23:48,792.4554388 And it's a practice that once you do it, You will, it it's self perpetuating you enjoy it. 232 00:23:48,822.4554388 --> 00:23:53,292.4554388 Like I rarely, I mean, my kids say they don't enjoy it. 233 00:23:54,102.4554388 --> 00:24:00,22.4544388 You know, they're 20 and my youngest, actually, I thought about this the other day because my youngest is turning 16 this year. 234 00:24:00,22.4554388 --> 00:24:02,622.4554388 So that means you left OVC 16 years ago. 235 00:24:02,622.4554388 --> 00:24:07,52.4554388 Cause he was about eight days old whenever we celebrated departure. 236 00:24:09,27.4554388 --> 00:24:09,387.4554388 Yeah. 237 00:24:09,647.4554388 --> 00:24:11,77.4554388 People celebrate my departure a lot. 238 00:24:11,77.4554388 --> 00:24:11,387.4554388 I noticed. 239 00:24:13,317.4554388 --> 00:24:46,37.4554388 Oh, it was a fun day and he was just a little guy, but so, you know, my kids are 20 and 16 and they will say with their words that they don't want to engage with people face to face, but when, and part of it's because this is the expectation that has always been set when people come into our house, but when people come into our house, They enjoy sitting around the table or sitting around the, in the living room, especially if it's mixed generations, you know, and the older generations are talking stories about their lives. 240 00:24:46,67.4554388 --> 00:24:55,157.4554388 Like they enjoy that, but their first response is I'm not going to enjoy it, or I don't want to do it. 241 00:24:55,167.4544388 --> 00:24:56,637.4554388 Maybe it's that I don't want to do it. 242 00:24:56,637.4554388 --> 00:24:57,917.4554388 Not that I'm not going to enjoy it. 243 00:24:57,957.4554388 --> 00:25:00,107.4554388 And so it inhibits their own. 244 00:25:00,792.4554388 --> 00:25:05,242.4554388 Success in doing it because they talk themselves out of it before they ever do it. 245 00:25:05,602.4554388 --> 00:25:17,922.4554388 And I noticed when my son went to college that I am with you, like this should be, this is the greatest time and to learn how to like socialize across the spectrum. 246 00:25:17,922.4554388 --> 00:25:25,552.4554388 Cause you're we've taken you, I always say that the young school years, It's a social experiment. 247 00:25:25,552.4554388 --> 00:25:28,212.4554388 We throw you all into a pot and see how you guys mix. 248 00:25:28,212.4554388 --> 00:25:31,62.4554388 And when you find out, well, I don't mix with everyone. 249 00:25:32,412.4554388 --> 00:25:45,332.4564388 Then when you go to college, you get to pick the pot that you're going to be in and you get a mix you know, and so it is a learned behavior though, because you know, I, I probably right there with your kids, I don't seek out. 250 00:25:46,27.4564388 --> 00:25:47,537.4564388 opportunities to socialize. 251 00:25:48,17.4564388 --> 00:25:57,347.4564388 Now I've learned how to survive, but you know, if you go to a big group or something and I'm in the big group, I'm going to be standing in a corner and will not engage. 252 00:25:58,177.4554388 --> 00:26:05,597.4564388 But you know, there comes a time in your career or in your life when you realize, Hey, I'm not, I'm not getting anywhere. 253 00:26:05,597.4564388 --> 00:26:06,697.4564388 I need to engage. 254 00:26:06,857.4564388 --> 00:26:10,267.4564388 I need to forge those relationships and have those interactions. 255 00:26:10,837.4564388 --> 00:26:15,787.4564388 And once you learn how to do that, you're Maybe you still don't enjoy them or look for them. 256 00:26:16,227.4564388 --> 00:26:22,867.4564388 I mean, I, I know people who just can't, can't stand not being around people and not talking to them all the time. 257 00:26:23,327.4564388 --> 00:26:35,417.4574388 And there's some people who I avoid because they're talking all the time, but at the same time, you know, you, you, As you mature, you kind of learn how to engage in those and you learn how to manage those emotions. 258 00:26:35,417.4574388 --> 00:26:43,607.4564388 You learn how to manage those proclivities that you got and get to the point where you can be a at least enter dialogue and have discussions with people. 259 00:26:44,427.4574388 --> 00:26:44,787.4574388 Yeah. 260 00:26:45,207.4574388 --> 00:26:46,357.4564388 It's that developmental stage. 261 00:26:46,357.4574388 --> 00:26:47,447.4574388 You have to go through it. 262 00:26:47,997.4574388 --> 00:26:51,427.4574388 Like, you know, there's that Bible song that says you can't go around it. 263 00:26:51,587.4574388 --> 00:26:52,587.4574388 You can't go over it. 264 00:26:52,607.4574388 --> 00:26:53,347.4574388 Can't go under it. 265 00:26:53,347.4574388 --> 00:26:54,427.4574388 You have to go through the door. 266 00:26:54,727.4574388 --> 00:26:56,517.4574388 That's true with developmental stages. 267 00:26:56,517.4574388 --> 00:26:57,717.4574388 It's like, you have to. 268 00:26:58,337.4574388 --> 00:27:02,307.4574388 you have to figure it out if you want to get or progress further. 269 00:27:02,327.4574388 --> 00:27:07,67.4574388 So, but it's a challenge for them, but I'm sure that they'll overcome it. 270 00:27:07,77.4574388 --> 00:27:10,587.4574388 They, the younger generations have all kinds of amazing ideas. 271 00:27:10,837.4574388 --> 00:27:17,567.4584388 I do see that they're very engaged in, in the idea of thinking of a different and brighter tomorrow. 272 00:27:17,887.4584388 --> 00:27:24,97.4584388 So I look forward to seeing them hopefully jump into the ship and help to make those. 273 00:27:24,622.4584388 --> 00:27:26,52.4584388 Dreams of reality. 274 00:27:27,152.4584388 --> 00:27:28,262.4584388 Yeah, it is amazing. 275 00:27:28,262.4584388 --> 00:27:39,362.4584388 What's going to be happening over the next especially the next decade, maybe the next couple of decades with with all the technology with AI coming along, it's going to change everything we do and how we do it. 276 00:27:39,382.4574388 --> 00:27:47,672.4584388 I mean, it already, even though we're in the nascent stage of it right now I can see it already in everything, everything I'm doing. 277 00:27:48,112.4584388 --> 00:27:51,522.4584388 And now that we're putting Elon Musk in charge of the government, no telling on how. 278 00:27:53,442.4584388 --> 00:27:54,682.4584388 No telling how that's going to work out. 279 00:27:55,882.4584388 --> 00:27:57,272.4584388 Yeah, no telling. 280 00:27:58,62.4584388 --> 00:28:02,52.4584388 But hopefully people will find more opportunities to engage with each other. 281 00:28:02,342.4574388 --> 00:28:03,722.4574388 I have a friend who always is. 282 00:28:04,202.4574388 --> 00:28:07,422.4574388 He always is encouraging people to meet their, their neighbor. 283 00:28:07,432.4574388 --> 00:28:12,142.4564388 He's like, how are you going to love and change the world when you can't talk to your neighbor across the street? So I love that. 284 00:28:13,832.4574388 --> 00:28:17,142.4564388 We have to have a balance, but yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. 285 00:28:17,832.4564388 --> 00:28:31,852.4574388 You know, that's, I know you're, you're aware of this, but it's around the The 1950s, you know, when everybody came back from the war, then all of a sudden we traded our houses no longer had front porches. 286 00:28:31,852.4574388 --> 00:28:35,842.4564388 They had driveways and garages because everybody started driving. 287 00:28:35,842.4574388 --> 00:28:43,892.4584388 And it's amazing how that has changed our society because we don't sit on the front porch and talk to our neighbors across the yard anymore. 288 00:28:43,892.4584388 --> 00:28:45,632.4584388 We, we watch the TV. 289 00:28:46,562.4584388 --> 00:28:46,602.4584388 Yeah. 290 00:28:47,317.4584388 --> 00:28:50,807.4584388 Yeah, well, nothing, nothing under the sun is new. 291 00:28:50,807.4584388 --> 00:28:52,27.4584388 I always think about that. 292 00:28:52,37.4584388 --> 00:29:02,162.4584388 That's, it's a passage from Ecclesiastes and, you know, I always think It'll come back around because we are a creature that craves community. 293 00:29:02,442.4584388 --> 00:29:16,292.4574388 And so I believe that the rotation will come back around and we'll have need to be engaging at the more local level, more frequently, you know? Well, I think, I think we're starting to see signs of that already. 294 00:29:16,442.4584388 --> 00:29:20,282.4584388 And I think, I think that had something to do with the last election act, real honestly. 295 00:29:20,682.4584388 --> 00:29:25,892.4584388 You know, I think people's desire to get, get back to what the good old days. 296 00:29:25,892.4584388 --> 00:29:30,462.4574388 I'm not sure, you know, you know, I, I've, I've had this phrase for years. 297 00:29:31,312.4584388 --> 00:29:32,382.4579388 It's a, it's a joke. 298 00:29:32,382.4579388 --> 00:29:36,952.4584388 I know, but you know, things aren't as good as they used to be, but then again, they never were. 299 00:29:37,692.4574388 --> 00:29:38,132.4574388 Yep. 300 00:29:38,942.4584388 --> 00:29:39,422.4584388 Yes. 301 00:29:40,32.4584388 --> 00:29:41,732.4584388 So, yeah, it's true. 302 00:29:42,82.4584388 --> 00:29:50,2.4584388 And, you know, but that's okay because sometimes our belief about the good old still propels. 303 00:29:50,342.4584388 --> 00:29:58,52.4584388 positive behaviors and but negative behaviors, but we'll focus on the positive because I'm, I'm more optimistic than that. 304 00:29:58,387.5584388 --> 00:30:02,907.4584388 Well, thank you for sharing today. 305 00:30:02,957.4584388 --> 00:30:05,197.4584388 I am so glad to have you on. 306 00:30:05,207.4584388 --> 00:30:06,667.4584388 So glad to talk to you again. 307 00:30:06,887.4584388 --> 00:30:14,197.4584388 I will try to be better about picking up a phone and calling you in one of these days, I'm going to come visit you. 308 00:30:14,657.4584388 --> 00:30:22,177.4584388 You know, I, you know, I appreciate you that I've all, you know, I've, I'm going to say this in public now that I've always said in private, you're one of the smartest women on the planet. 309 00:30:22,217.4584388 --> 00:30:25,862.3584388 So, God bless your, your success in, in your career. 310 00:30:26,242.4584388 --> 00:30:29,362.4584388 Your businesses that you've started and the work that you're doing. 311 00:30:29,362.4584388 --> 00:30:34,322.4584388 And I appreciate the help that you've given, given me through the years and also here at Bethany. 312 00:30:35,322.4584388 --> 00:30:36,182.4584388 Well, thank you. 313 00:30:36,222.4584388 --> 00:30:36,602.4579388 Yes. 314 00:30:36,602.4579388 --> 00:30:38,392.4574388 I'm always, always excited to help. 315 00:30:38,402.4584388 --> 00:30:40,342.4574388 Always excited to get to work with you again. 316 00:30:41,382.4584388 --> 00:30:42,882.4584388 I thank you for coming on. 317 00:30:42,922.4584388 --> 00:30:45,82.4584388 I don't know about that smartest person in the world. 318 00:30:45,122.4584388 --> 00:30:49,502.4584388 I have three kids and probably a husband and parents that would argue with you. 319 00:30:50,862.4584388 --> 00:30:50,882.4584388 Yeah. 320 00:30:50,882.5584388 --> 00:30:53,452.4584388 What do they know? That's right. 321 00:30:54,72.4574388 --> 00:30:56,272.4579388 But I am honored that you say it. 322 00:30:56,272.4579388 --> 00:30:57,652.4584388 So thank you so much. 323 00:30:57,652.4584388 --> 00:31:00,292.4584388 And to our listeners, I hope you have a great week and we'll talk to you next week. 324 00:31:01,662.4584388 --> 00:31:02,192.4584388 Thank you. 325 00:31:02,952.4584388 --> 00:31:06,352.4584388 Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Nonprofit 411. 326 00:31:06,752.4584388 --> 00:31:10,322.4584388 I hope you found today's conversation as insightful and inspiring as I did. 327 00:31:10,912.4584388 --> 00:31:14,282.4574388 Remember, building a healthy nonprofit requires a holistic approach. 328 00:31:14,592.4584388 --> 00:31:21,462.4584388 There are many resources available to support your staff, and we're dedicated to helping your organization access what it needs to thrive. 329 00:31:22,202.4574388 --> 00:31:25,769.6221173 One key to creating a thriving organization is a diverse fundraising strategy. 330 00:31:25,769.6221173 --> 00:31:30,772.3584388 While grants are an important part of that strategy, they're just one piece of the overall puzzle. 331 00:31:31,662.4584388 --> 00:31:37,82.4584388 If you're looking to strengthen your grant writing skills as part of this bigger picture, I've got a resource to help you get started. 332 00:31:37,632.4584388 --> 00:31:45,932.4584388 Download my free grant writing guide packed with practical tips and best practices to help you craft proposals that align with your overall fundraising goals. 333 00:31:46,412.4584388 --> 00:31:47,892.4584388 You'll find the link in the show notes. 334 00:31:48,182.4574388 --> 00:31:54,362.4584388 And as always, if you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your fellow change makers. 335 00:31:54,952.4584388 --> 00:31:57,552.4584388 Let's work together to build a vibrant nonprofit community. 336 00:31:57,872.4584388 --> 00:32:00,882.4584388 Until next time, keep pushing forward and making a difference.