Episode Summary: In this premiere episode of Off the Clock, co-founders of ADVOS Pro, Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper, share why they broke up with the billable hour and how lawyers can do the same. Together, they reflect on their early experiences in big law, the frustrations of tracking hours instead of results, and the turning points that led them to create a new model of practicing law. By drawing on lessons from software development and project-based pricing, they explain how lawyers can build profitable, joyful practices that prioritize client outcomes, efficiency, and work-life balance. This episode sets the stage for a fresh conversation about designing law practices that support freedom, fulfillment, and financial success.
Key Timestamps:00:01 – Introduction to Off the Clock podcast and mission 02:10 – Whitney Harper’s first impressions of the billable hour 06:25 – Gwen Griggs’s breaking point with hourly billing 11:40 – Transition from big law to in-house counsel and client-side perspective 16:05 – Why the billable hour creates misalignment with client needs 20:30 – Rethinking legal fees: from flat fee to project deliverables 25:50 – Borrowing lessons from software development for law firm pricing 30:15 – How breaking free from hourly billing transformed client relationships 34:40 – Personal impact: regaining family time, freedom, and joy in practice 39:20 – Practical first steps for lawyers ready to leave the billable hour 42:00 – Introduction to the Promance Scorecard and resources from ADVOS Pro 44:15 – Closing thoughts and call to action
About the Show:Off the Clock is the podcast for lawyers and law firm owners ready to stop surviving and start thriving. Hosted by Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper, co-creators of ADVOS Pro, each episode explores strategies for building practices that are profitable, client-focused, and designed around the lawyer’s life—not just their clients’ needs. Listeners will discover bold steps to create freedom, fulfillment, and long-term success without relying on the outdated billable hour model.
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