September 18, 2024 • 40 mins
Welcome to the third episode of the Offerings of Copal podcast. In this episode, we explore the recent lunar eclipse from both Western astrological and Anahuak ancestral perspectives. Our journey begins with the Maya and their recordings of eclipses in the Dresden Codex, viewing these events as sacred moments of transformation.
The Mexica's understanding of eclipses as "Tonatiuh Kualo" (the sun being eaten) and "Meztli Kualo" (the moon being eaten) is discussed, highlighting their beliefs about the Tzitzimimitl, star demons or agents of duality. These beings are connected to significant life changes and feminine spirits, bringing much-needed transformations.
We also delve into the current Tochtli Trecena in the Aztec/Mexica calendar, correlating it with the lunar eclipse and its astrological significance. The connection between the rabbit energy of Tochtli and lunar cycles is explored, emphasizing themes of abundance, transformation, and perseverance.
Throughout the episode, we reflect on how eclipses serve as cosmic resets, encouraging personal and collective growth. We also pull some tarot cards to offer guidance and insight as we navigate these transformative times.
Join us as we align with the natural cycles and embrace the winds of change, guided by the wisdom of our ancestors and the stars.
Links:
Follow me on Instagram: @Cihua.Mazatl
Get my bilingual book Tlahtolli Oracle: Divinations for Night and Day: www.Cihuamazatl.com
Subscribe on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@cihuamazatl4049
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hola, piloncillos. Welcome to the third episode, Offerings of Copal podcast.
Today, we're going to dive into the lunar eclipse that we experienced last night,
not only from a Western astrological perspective, but also from the perspective
of our ancestors here in the Anahuac.
(00:21):
For the Maya, this is where we're going to begin. We're going to begin with the Maya.
They recorded the occurrences of the eclipses in their Dresden Codex,
which is one of the only surviving codices that we have left.
And eclipses were described as sacred moments, times when the gods themselves
(00:46):
descended upon the earth to bring change.
It was as if the eclipses were portals. The Mexica call the eclipses tonatiu kualo or messily kualo,
meaning the sun being eaten tonatiu kualo or the moon being eaten as messily kualo.
(01:10):
This was a powerful metaphor for the shifts that were being experienced.
They even had beliefs that the Tsitsimime, which were described by the invaders as star demons,
but they were beings and agents of duality.
(01:34):
I like to think of them as occurrences.
Disappearances, such as the eclipses where these light bodies would get eaten or disappear.
Or even when we think about black holes where stars that were once there are suddenly gone.
(01:56):
It's interesting because the Tsitsimime also represented some of the women that
had transcended in childbirth.
You know, it represented their spirits that would come and sometimes wreak their
revenge on men in particular.
(02:17):
They're very interesting, feminine spirits, and we could really spend a lot
of time diving into them.
But I don't think this conversation can really take us anywhere if we don't also mention them.
But the Tikti Mime ushered in much-needed transformation in a perspective that
(02:41):
resonates with the winds of change felt in Western astrology.
As we discuss the astrological significance of this eclipse,
we're also going to align it to the current Tochli Tresena in the Aztec calendar.
If you follow us on Tlazotonali, you follow the calendar with us,
(03:01):
you know that I write the tonales for Tlazotonali every day,
offering opportunities to reflect on the current energies.
And I can't consider anything without also considering where we are in the sacred ritual calendar.
And we happen to be in a trecena of Tochli, which is the rabbit.
(03:25):
And when we touch upon the energy of the rabbit it has everything to do with the lunar phases.
I don't know if you know this, but rabbits have a gestational period that is exactly 28 days.
And it is one of the associations that Tochli has with lunar cycles.
(03:52):
But I do think that there is a significance, an alignment, that this eclipse
happened to fall in this Tresena.
So we're going to talk about it. and as well
we're going to pull some cards today to guide to
guide your journey you know our collective journey offering
(04:14):
you some empowering words and
some insight you know as you move through your own cycles as you move through
your own doors so let's begin by looking to the skies through the lens of our
ancestors and reflecting on what this lunar eclipse means for us all.
(04:36):
Have you ever thought of an eclipse as a portal?
How might seeing it through the eyes of our ancestors really shift your perspective?
I remember a time where I went down to Masatlan land to visit my family.
And one of my cousins was pregnant at the time.
(04:57):
And she had this red string around her belly with a key.
It's like a key attached to the string. And I remember asking her,
what is that key for? What is that string for?
And she said that it was for the eclipses, you know, and she was young.
And I also remember her saying, no, no, my
(05:19):
mom made me wear this is for the eclipses and this has
always had me thinking of how beautiful our
traditions are that they get passed on and
we may not always know the answer but we know that it protects you she knew
that that string was meant to protect her and if you were to do some research
(05:39):
on the eclipses and their significance to to our ancestors here in the anahuac
you know that's one of the
things that was often practiced was the wearing of a red sash,
a red string around your belly, especially if you were pregnant.
It was believed that if you didn't, you ran the risk of your child being born
(06:02):
with a hair lip, which I'm assuming is kind of like a cleft lip,
but it was something it was something not desired.
And not only that, they also had you wear some sort of obsidian around your neck.
Lunar eclipses are particularly associated with being dangerous for women.
(06:28):
The Maya documented the occurrences of the eclipses very methodically in their Dresden Codex.
Now, if you want to spend some time researching this, that's definitely a lead for you.
The Dresden Codex is one of the few codices that we have left.
(06:50):
From from here in in the
anahuac and they recorded
the the sequences of the eclipses you
know this definitely is a testament to how much they they cared about the eclipses
and a lot of it was to avoid certain changes or for protection you know there
(07:15):
were times where were big changes and transformations were associated.
For the Mexica, the eclipses also didn't have a very positive,
positive implications.
And I think that this is just something that all human beings struggle with,
(07:35):
and this is the idea of change.
But for the Mexica, the eclipses were described as Tonatiuh Kualo,
Tonatiuh Kualo, and Mestli Kualo.
So Tonatiuh Kualo was a solar eclipse, Tonatiuh.
It literally translated into the sun being eaten, and Mestli Kualo,
(07:57):
which is what we had last night, Mestli Kualo, is the moon being eaten.
And I think that it's a very apt description because it does look like the sun or the moon,
like something is taking a bite out of it and now if you're wondering well what's
biting the moon what's biting the the sun for our ancestors the Mexica they
(08:19):
they believe that it was the and the invaders may have described them as star
demons demons yeah I don't.
It's unfortunate that English maybe doesn't have another word for this,
but I like to think of them as dualities.
Just as there are creation representations or deities, energies,
(08:42):
there are also destructive entities.
The chichime were associated with the stars, especially stars that could be
seen around the sun during a solar eclipse.
And these stars that were around the sun were the ones that were eating the sun.
(09:03):
I also like to think about them as the stars that disappear,
become black holes, the agents that cause certain things to happen.
It's almost like the chaos of the universe. birth.
The Tsitsinime were also believed that they would descend upon the earth to
(09:26):
possess men during the eclipses.
So people would often do things in order to protect themselves,
protect their energy from the Tsitsinime.
They were particularly associated with the energies around around childbirth,
part of the mystery of how some women would die during childbirth.
(09:52):
And they would say that Titsunime were responsible in some ways.
But there was also a type of venerance associated with them as well.
And they were also regarded as protectors of these women, and all women.
(10:14):
They, I really do like to think about them as the dark feminine energy,
the duality of the feminine energy, as when you look at them,
they're described as having, they're sort of skeletal-like.
They kind of have a little skull face, and they have a skirt with more skulls
(10:37):
and crossbones, and they have little eyes which are representative of the stars on them.
And she kind of has Kali Ma vibes, if you're familiar with the goddess Kali.
I think it's a very similar energy. As well as Tzitzpapalot,
whom is the leader of the Tzitzimime, kind of has that vibe.
(11:00):
It's sort of that dark feminine energy.
You could think about it as Lilith. We're thinking about this Western astrology.
So, if you were to wear a red string or even have a piece of obsidian around
your neck, you would be protected.
Let me know in the comments, you know, what you think about the Tsitsimimere.
(11:21):
If you have any traditions in your family that you do when it comes time to
the eclipses. I know in some tribes, you can't look at the eclipse at all.
I know for the Yoemes and our traditions as well, you would go outside and you
(11:42):
would bang on whatever you had, whether drums, pots.
Pans, nowadays it's pots and pans, whatever that you have in order to scare
whatever is attacking the moon or attacking the sun, you know,
and you're also asking the sun and the moon to come back by creating this noise.
So I'm curious to hear what are some of your traditions around the eclipses.
(12:06):
These are very powerful times and I
think they can carry an energy
of something being ominous and
i think it's that energy of knowing that change is coming
and change no matter how small
can sometimes be so disruptive you know
to whatever ideas to whatever direction that
(12:28):
we thought we were going in i think
this is a great place to transition into what
is the astrological significance of this
lunar eclipse i know nowadays you
know everybody's a little into astrology i personally have been an astrology
(12:49):
lover ever since i was teenager and i've always liked to dive in but nowadays
i'm trying to make more connections with not only with astrology.
But also the calendar and the perspectives of our ancestors and sort of bringing
(13:09):
a more modern take and interpretation that can be used today.
So I hope that this plays a good balance for you and meets you the right place
at the right time in your life where you're able to receive this platica.
So we are currently entering into the first, uh...
(13:35):
The next few eclipses on the Virgo, on the Pisces-Virgo axis.
This is going to be pretty much eclipses for the last two years.
Last year, we had it in Aries and Taurus, I believe.
And it brought a lot of changes in those, no, it was Scorpio and Taurus,
in those areas in our lives, Scorpio and Taurus.
(13:58):
And now we're transitioning into Pisces and Virgo.
So Pisces represents our dreams
our intuition and everything that
is spiritual while Virgo is more
grounded in what is practical our health and order and so there is going to
(14:19):
be a sort of tug and pull between these two types of energies over the next
two years and that's It's where all the changes are going to happen in our lives.
You know, for our ancestors in the Anahuac, the eclipses were portals,
portals in which the gods would descend upon the earth to bring the winds of
(14:44):
change and transformation.
And so I do feel that there is a connection here with two separate ideologies.
And there are so many other connections in other parts of the world where these
eclipses were viewed as periods of change.
(15:05):
So I think it's important to consider where you are in your life.
What are some of the thoughts and ideas that have been coming up for you in this time and place?
Think back to some of the events that have been happening last week, What's happening now?
What are some of the emerging themes for you? What is new in your life?
(15:29):
What is budding that maybe wasn't there before?
When we think about this Pisces and Virgo energy.
We have to think about how we can bring our dreams, that's that Piscean energy,
very dreamy, very beautiful, very romanticizing the possibilities.
(15:52):
You know, those mystical dreams, how can we bring those dreams into reality with Virgo?
Virgo is a very devoted energy.
It is creating ritual in the everyday.
Now, how can we bring that spirituality into our daily practice?
Practice that's that's how i'm seeing this energy playing out in multiple facets
(16:20):
and multiple expressions so if you've been studying something you've been diving
deep into something how do you create a practice out of this.
Eclipses, no matter what, I think push us to release what no longer serves us
emotionally or spiritually.
(16:41):
And also to embrace clarity in our relationships, health, and service to others.
Pisces is an energy that rules over love.
And Virgo asks
us how devoted are we to cultivating love
in our lives and Virgo can be
(17:04):
an energy that can be very critical because
it's always in a pursuit of purification a purifying of making something better
and I think at times when we're put together with love you know that critical
energy may not always go,
(17:25):
but it is important to be practical in our approach to making our dreams come
true or our relationships or whatever it is that we're trying to work on.
I do think that eclipses offer a sort of cosmic reset that encourage us to dive
into deep personal transformation.
(17:45):
What part of your life right now feels unbalanced? Maybe where there's too much
dreaming going on or too much practicality.
Sometimes we're on either end of the spectrum, so it is important that we take that time to reflect.
How can you restore harmony during this eclipse?
We are currently on a Tochli Tresena.
(18:08):
You know, let's point out some of the connections here with the Meshika calendar.
The Meshika calendar, the Tonalpawali, it's the sacred ritual calendar,
the count of destinies, and each day was significant.
Last night, during the eclipse, the eclipse fell on an Osomatli day.
(18:32):
A day of community. So, matli is the monkey.
The monkey is an energy of sensuality, of romance, of flirtatiousness,
which again, you know, you can say that there's a connection there with Pisces,
but it is a sign of connection.
You know, monkeys are not solitary creatures. They gather with others.
(18:53):
They're always in communion with others.
They're always grooming rooming each other. You know, they're always put together.
They're funny. You know, it always brings in that medicine of love and laughter.
And so I think it's important to look on what day of the calendar it also falls on.
(19:13):
So it falling on Osomatli, I feel that is going to bring themes around community,
around love, around those interpersonal relationships.
And something Something about the duality of Osamatli is that Osamatli can sometimes
not take itself serious enough,
you know, sort of making the jokes at the wrong time, or sometimes taking itself
(19:37):
too seriously and not knowing how to laugh and just flow with life.
So again, bringing in this theme of bringing in balance into our lives.
And not only that, but Osomatli is accompanied or where it's part of the Tresena of Tochli.
So Tochli is rabbit. So we're in a 13-day cycle of the rabbit.
(20:01):
Rabbit has everything to do with the lunar forces as its gestational period is 28 days long.
It's got everything to do with abundance.
You know, rabbits, they procreate every 28 days. That's why there's so many
of them. I feel that Tochli energy can teach us to let go, to not live with
(20:22):
scarcity mentality, that there is always more.
It can also teach us about laughter and joy, and sometimes even the foolishness
of drunkenness, for they say
that in drunkenness, it was the spirit of Tochli that would possess you.
So the lunar forces are also associated with okli, with pulke,
(20:44):
with the sweet nectar, the mage, you know, the intoxication.
And I think one of the dualities of tochli as well is anxiety.
You know, how to not give in to that anxiety of, you know, fear of scarcity, etc.
(21:06):
So I want you to also take some time to consider, you know, if there is some
anxiety, you know, where in your life are you maybe keeping that scarcity mentality?
I think we're being asked right now with these energies to expand our awareness
of what is possible, to allow yourself to dream, to dare to dream a bigger dream.
(21:31):
Allow yourself to romanticize and to think about the We need that mystical,
dreamy possibility to also keep us motivated and also to keep us creative if
we're so grounded in the practical and the reality of what we're doing.
(21:54):
What we've come to believe is
possible, then we're less likely to think outside the box or push further.
And it is when you have that dream, it is when you believe it's possible that
you can push through with that ambition.
Tochli itself is an energy of perseverance. It is an energy that resides to
(22:19):
the south, the realm of Witsilopochtli, willpower,
and Tochli is a warrior energy as well.
As much as it can represent children, it's also that energy represents children
because of all the little rabbits, but it can also represent this perseverance and this.
(22:42):
Protectiveness that the rabbit has.
I don't know if you know this, but rabbits are some of the more The violent
little creatures that we have here on the planet, they're extremely territorial.
I don't know if anyone's read Watership Down or seen the movie. It's pretty spooky.
For a lot of us, it is something that was required.
(23:03):
It was required for me in high school to read it, but it was good and spooky.
But my point is that rabbits can be very violent.
And for our ancestors, they would also represent that war-like spirit.
So we're being, the warrior in us is also being asked to emerge,
(23:23):
to fight for our dreams, you know, to be devoted to our dreams in order to make them a reality.
If you have a moment to take a moment to ask yourself the question of how can
we align with these natural cycles to navigate both personal and collective change.
(23:47):
Whatever it is that you've got going on right now, the eclipse sort of opens
a six-month portal between now and the next eclipse, right?
And whatever is budding for you now is something that's going to be explored.
In this passage of time and for the next two years as we deepen these connections.
(24:09):
So I hope that you'll take some time to reflect on that.
I wanted to pull some cards out today and see what our ancestors take on this is,
asking them to channel a message for us as we navigate this so for all of those
(24:30):
listening if you feel called to receive this message here is for you begin by shuffling the cards.
A moment to slow down i know this is a
podcast you know but part of me i'm just
reminding that part of also to slow down
(24:50):
to take in the moment i don't have to rush that there is time and those that
are willing will take the time to to listen to this you know those to whom this
message is for Or what take the time to listen to this?
So trusting, trusting that there is time, trusting that there is time.
(25:14):
I feel that that is part of the message, Utu.
There is time to look in the mirror as well. It's an important thing to look
in the mirror. And that's very also matri, too.
Take the time to look in the mirror. Take the time to, you know,
smooth out your little, your little, como se dice, tu gallo on your head.
(25:37):
Take the time to feel good, to feel good about yourself, to give yourself some love.
All right. Let me pull the card.
Mira. Okay. I can't make these things up.
You know, even just recording this, you know, I'm sitting here alone having this conversation,
(26:02):
knowing, of course, that you're out there, at least trusting,
you know, trusting that you're out there and that someone is listening to this,
bearing witness to this.
But sometimes the cards really, really amaze me and really remind me of the
magic and the beauty that surrounds us.
And I think that's also part of the message. The first card we have here is YOLO Yaukiski.
(26:25):
I am reading today from Mi Corazon Mexica's Yo Alia Heka Tarot.
It is currently my favorite.
But the first card is YOLO Yaukiski, which is the heart warrior.
And I think it aligns perfectly with what we've been discussing today. day.
The heart warrior is here. The heart warrior is you.
(26:45):
It's time to go after your heart's desires to offer your devotions,
your love, all of your resources now.
Dare to go after what you've been wishing, what you've been dreaming for in
order to create this reality that I think we all are trying to collectively work toward.
(27:10):
We need to follow our bliss, follow the things that we love.
And I feel that my generation grew up with that idea of, like,
follow your dreams, you know, but I felt that we were met with that.
Lots of big roadblocks with the structure of society.
(27:31):
And I also believe it's up to us to create the society where that is possible.
Because that is deep down inside, I feel that that is part of a belief that we have.
And even if that belief has been dashed a few times, I still think that that is still within us.
And Yoli Yaukiski is is
(27:53):
accompanied here by Chalchisiwat which is
if you read tarot we have we have the knight of cups and we have the queen of
coins okay Chalchisiwat this is the the lady of the Chalchiwit or the lady of
jade and I feel that both of these energies represent
(28:15):
the Paisen Virgo energy.
And we even have some, we have some Xochiquetzalien, some Huitzilopochtli energy
here reminding us of the beauty of the world and what is worth fighting for.
It is worth fighting for your, for the things that you love,
for the beautiful things that you want to create.
(28:36):
It is so important to create beauty around you,
which is also a message it is imperative
that we create a beautiful world that
we allow our inner artist
to shine and both of these energies here are looking straight at the next card
(28:57):
which is the seven of yolot which is a card that is about dreams about that
daydreaming energy like yes spend some time,
let your mind,
let yourself daydream, have that fantasy of what you believe is possible or
what you would like to be possible.
(29:21):
Moment that you can really see it like, oh, my heart truly desires this.
I didn't know this is what it desires, but I see it now.
That's the moment that you have to snap back out of your dream and start taking
those steps forward to make it possible.
You can't just let it be a dream.
It's time to go after what you really want. And I find it interesting when this
(29:44):
card shows up for us because when this card shows up, I find that the universe, creator.
You know, the great spirit, the great mystery sends us many other things that maybe we once wanted.
Maybe you were caught in the capitalistic narrative that you wanted,
(30:04):
you know, I don't know, this job or this house or whatever, these things that
you once really coveted.
And sometimes when you're on the precipice of moving toward that dream,
the universe tests you and it dangles these things in front of you like a carrot
to see if you really are going to put in that devotion and that energy to go after what you want.
(30:31):
And so I believe that is where we are.
This is a message to stand up for the things that you love, to be that warrior
of the heart, to have that willpower to persevere and fight and fight for it.
You know, especially if this is a relationship, you know, or,
or a dream, or you want to go to school or whatever it may be, you have to fight for it.
(30:55):
You can say yes to your heart and now you have to follow it up with that action,
with that devotion. ocean.
Anything that we want to happen in this world, we do have to put in some energy.
Some love, some kopal into the fire, right? Some prayers.
So I invite you, I invite you to allow yourself to daydream,
(31:20):
to dream about what it is that you want.
Want, truly want. And you'll see when you open your eyes that you have the resources
that you need to make it happen.
And the resources that you don't have, trust that they will appear when you start to take action.
(31:44):
The universe creator wants to help us with what it is that we want to do.
But if we don't know what we want to do, how can it help us, right?
So the first and The most important thing for us is to be clear with our desires,
with our wants, so that everybody can get to work to make it happen.
And especially if this is a dream that aligns you with your tonali.
(32:11):
And if you don't know what a tonali is, I highly recommend that you get a tonalamat,
you know, that you find out what your tonali is, which is the day you're born on.
When we're talking about this eclipse, we said it fell on an Osomatli day with the Tochli Tresena.
Okay, you are born on a special day as well.
That your whole life, if you align your energies with the Arthanali,
(32:37):
things could truly flow.
And that's going to have to be something that we'll talk about on another day.
But it is something that I
want to me personally as part of my wild
dream is to be able to talk about
these things in a way that we can
in the same way that we can understand Virgo and Pisces that I can say Chocowetsi
(33:00):
and Tochli and you know the energies that we have Sochipili and Eastli and that
you will understand these energies as much as you do the Pisces and the Virgo, etc.
So that's part of my little mission and you're bearing witness to my little dream and...
(33:22):
That you give yourself permission for for whatever
dream that you have before we proceed
i want to close off this message
here with the with the cards from a message here in my book and hear the flipping
of the pages again i can't make these things up i am in awe But the message
(33:48):
that we got today is kalpuli,
family, community.
Reach out to your loved ones and allow yourself to be supported.
Listen for a helpful word and be guided in the right direction.
Tell those you care about that you love them. This is too short.
No, life is too short to stay angry.
(34:10):
Your kalpuli is not limited by blood. It is expanded by love.
You can choose your Calpulli.
And I can read it to you in Spanish as well. Calpulli, familia, comunidad.
Acércate a tus seres queridos y permÃtete ser apoyado.
Escucha palabras de apoyo o permÃtete ser guiado en la dirección correcta.
(34:37):
Dile a quienes te importan que los amas. La vida es demasiado corta para permanecer enojado.
Tu Calpulli no es tan imitado por la sangre.
Se expande por el amor. Puedes elegir tu Calpulli.
This from my book, Platoli Oracle, and I feel that this message here with Kalpuli
(35:00):
is a perfect closing off this reading,
especially considering that the eclipse has happened on an Osamatli day.
And as we explored earlier, Osamatli is a creature that thrives in its community.
And so on top of, on top of, you know, you pursuing your dreams as an individual,
(35:25):
I think it also allows or gives permission to others within your community to do the same.
And sometimes we hold each other
hostage to whatever unwritten agreements that we have in the society.
You know, everybody wants to work four-hour days, you know,
but the moment a business closes early or whatever it may be,
(35:47):
we get angry you know we continue to uphold the
same structures that are keeping us prisoner that we
don't really want to participate in anymore so if
you no longer want to participate in something you have to also allow others
you also have to allow others to not participate in it and you can't uphold
(36:07):
those same standards so as much as this is about an individual this is also
about the collective and community.
So give yourself permission to follow your dreams, but also give others the same privilege.
And really acknowledging with gratitude that it is a privilege.
It is a privilege to be able to dream.
(36:29):
And we have to dream. We have to believe that we can make something out of this,
because the way that things are going can feel really grim at times.
Things are continuing to happen on the other side of the world and at home. There's so many issues.
(36:52):
I really do feel that we are at a precipice for something that,
But I'm choosing to believe that we will go into the right timeline together
where we can create a better world together.
And every little granito de arena helps.
And so let's add, let's add them together, you know, add your copal to the,
(37:16):
to the San Medio, you know, and let's elevate this collective prayer,
you know, for, for the, for the good of us all.
So, I hope that this relática has given you something more to think about and
(37:36):
deepened your connection not only to this beautiful lunar phenomena that we witnessed,
and not only the Western perspective, but also the perspective of our ancestors.
Despite the intensity and potential chaos like the Tsitsimime,
they also represent the winds of change.
(38:00):
It is important that we surrender to this transformation.
While it is challenging, it is so necessary for growth.
And that is part of the beauty. whether it's through that spiritual insight
you may hear the voices of your ancestors and your guides very strongly at this time.
(38:23):
Sure that you're not getting too swept away in the messages,
that you're forgetting the practical and grounded elements of taking action.
How can you welcome the winds of change in your life? What are you ready to release?
And what are you ready to embrace?
Thank you so much for listening from
(38:46):
my heart to yours
i hope that you will leave me
a comment let me know how this is resonating with
you was this an interesting platica for you would you like to hear more about
the tonal powali and my particular perspective on the tonal powali and at times
(39:09):
it can have its It's controversies as far as counts and those things go,
but I think those things move us away from the real mission here,
which is trying to spread that understanding and awareness of what these potentials could be.
Again, Tlaxcamati, my last final message here is just a reminder that you can
(39:32):
pick up my book, Flatoli Oracle,
in the link in my bio on my website, www.cihuamacatl.com.
You can pick up Flatoli Oracle in now black and white and soft cover,
(39:54):
or you can still pre-order a restock of the hardcover full color version of Flatoli Oracle.
Again, Again, you can pick up a copy at www.siwamasat.com. You'll find the links
to my book and my Instagram in the description of this podcast.
(40:16):
Klasika mati for listening to Offerings of Kopal. May you have a blessed week. Until next time.
Hola, piloncillos. Welcome to the third episode, Offerings of Copal podcast.
Today, we're going to dive into the lunar eclipse that we experienced last night,
not only from a Western astrological perspective, but also from the perspective
of our ancestors here in the Anahuac.
(00:21):
For the Maya, this is where we're going to begin. We're going to begin with the Maya.
They recorded the occurrences of the eclipses in their Dresden Codex,
which is one of the only surviving codices that we have left.
And eclipses were described as sacred moments, times when the gods themselves
(00:46):
descended upon the earth to bring change.
It was as if the eclipses were portals. The Mexica call the eclipses tonatiu kualo or messily kualo,
meaning the sun being eaten tonatiu kualo or the moon being eaten as messily kualo.
(01:10):
This was a powerful metaphor for the shifts that were being experienced.
They even had beliefs that the Tsitsimime, which were described by the invaders as star demons,
but they were beings and agents of duality.
(01:34):
I like to think of them as occurrences.
Disappearances, such as the eclipses where these light bodies would get eaten or disappear.
Or even when we think about black holes where stars that were once there are suddenly gone.
(01:56):
It's interesting because the Tsitsimime also represented some of the women that
had transcended in childbirth.
You know, it represented their spirits that would come and sometimes wreak their
revenge on men in particular.
(02:17):
They're very interesting, feminine spirits, and we could really spend a lot
of time diving into them.
But I don't think this conversation can really take us anywhere if we don't also mention them.
But the Tikti Mime ushered in much-needed transformation in a perspective that
(02:41):
resonates with the winds of change felt in Western astrology.
As we discuss the astrological significance of this eclipse,
we're also going to align it to the current Tochli Tresena in the Aztec calendar.
If you follow us on Tlazotonali, you follow the calendar with us,
(03:01):
you know that I write the tonales for Tlazotonali every day,
offering opportunities to reflect on the current energies.
And I can't consider anything without also considering where we are in the sacred ritual calendar.
And we happen to be in a trecena of Tochli, which is the rabbit.
(03:25):
And when we touch upon the energy of the rabbit it has everything to do with the lunar phases.
I don't know if you know this, but rabbits have a gestational period that is exactly 28 days.
And it is one of the associations that Tochli has with lunar cycles.
(03:52):
But I do think that there is a significance, an alignment, that this eclipse
happened to fall in this Tresena.
So we're going to talk about it. and as well
we're going to pull some cards today to guide to
guide your journey you know our collective journey offering
(04:14):
you some empowering words and
some insight you know as you move through your own cycles as you move through
your own doors so let's begin by looking to the skies through the lens of our
ancestors and reflecting on what this lunar eclipse means for us all.
(04:36):
Have you ever thought of an eclipse as a portal?
How might seeing it through the eyes of our ancestors really shift your perspective?
I remember a time where I went down to Masatlan land to visit my family.
And one of my cousins was pregnant at the time.
(04:57):
And she had this red string around her belly with a key.
It's like a key attached to the string. And I remember asking her,
what is that key for? What is that string for?
And she said that it was for the eclipses, you know, and she was young.
And I also remember her saying, no, no, my
(05:19):
mom made me wear this is for the eclipses and this has
always had me thinking of how beautiful our
traditions are that they get passed on and
we may not always know the answer but we know that it protects you she knew
that that string was meant to protect her and if you were to do some research
(05:39):
on the eclipses and their significance to to our ancestors here in the anahuac
you know that's one of the
things that was often practiced was the wearing of a red sash,
a red string around your belly, especially if you were pregnant.
It was believed that if you didn't, you ran the risk of your child being born
(06:02):
with a hair lip, which I'm assuming is kind of like a cleft lip,
but it was something it was something not desired.
And not only that, they also had you wear some sort of obsidian around your neck.
Lunar eclipses are particularly associated with being dangerous for women.
(06:28):
The Maya documented the occurrences of the eclipses very methodically in their Dresden Codex.
Now, if you want to spend some time researching this, that's definitely a lead for you.
The Dresden Codex is one of the few codices that we have left.
(06:50):
From from here in in the
anahuac and they recorded
the the sequences of the eclipses you
know this definitely is a testament to how much they they cared about the eclipses
and a lot of it was to avoid certain changes or for protection you know there
(07:15):
were times where were big changes and transformations were associated.
For the Mexica, the eclipses also didn't have a very positive,
positive implications.
And I think that this is just something that all human beings struggle with,
(07:35):
and this is the idea of change.
But for the Mexica, the eclipses were described as Tonatiuh Kualo,
Tonatiuh Kualo, and Mestli Kualo.
So Tonatiuh Kualo was a solar eclipse, Tonatiuh.
It literally translated into the sun being eaten, and Mestli Kualo,
(07:57):
which is what we had last night, Mestli Kualo, is the moon being eaten.
And I think that it's a very apt description because it does look like the sun or the moon,
like something is taking a bite out of it and now if you're wondering well what's
biting the moon what's biting the the sun for our ancestors the Mexica they
(08:19):
they believe that it was the and the invaders may have described them as star
demons demons yeah I don't.
It's unfortunate that English maybe doesn't have another word for this,
but I like to think of them as dualities.
Just as there are creation representations or deities, energies,
(08:42):
there are also destructive entities.
The chichime were associated with the stars, especially stars that could be
seen around the sun during a solar eclipse.
And these stars that were around the sun were the ones that were eating the sun.
(09:03):
I also like to think about them as the stars that disappear,
become black holes, the agents that cause certain things to happen.
It's almost like the chaos of the universe. birth.
The Tsitsinime were also believed that they would descend upon the earth to
(09:26):
possess men during the eclipses.
So people would often do things in order to protect themselves,
protect their energy from the Tsitsinime.
They were particularly associated with the energies around around childbirth,
part of the mystery of how some women would die during childbirth.
(09:52):
And they would say that Titsunime were responsible in some ways.
But there was also a type of venerance associated with them as well.
And they were also regarded as protectors of these women, and all women.
(10:14):
They, I really do like to think about them as the dark feminine energy,
the duality of the feminine energy, as when you look at them,
they're described as having, they're sort of skeletal-like.
They kind of have a little skull face, and they have a skirt with more skulls
(10:37):
and crossbones, and they have little eyes which are representative of the stars on them.
And she kind of has Kali Ma vibes, if you're familiar with the goddess Kali.
I think it's a very similar energy. As well as Tzitzpapalot,
whom is the leader of the Tzitzimime, kind of has that vibe.
(11:00):
It's sort of that dark feminine energy.
You could think about it as Lilith. We're thinking about this Western astrology.
So, if you were to wear a red string or even have a piece of obsidian around
your neck, you would be protected.
Let me know in the comments, you know, what you think about the Tsitsimimere.
(11:21):
If you have any traditions in your family that you do when it comes time to
the eclipses. I know in some tribes, you can't look at the eclipse at all.
I know for the Yoemes and our traditions as well, you would go outside and you
(11:42):
would bang on whatever you had, whether drums, pots.
Pans, nowadays it's pots and pans, whatever that you have in order to scare
whatever is attacking the moon or attacking the sun, you know,
and you're also asking the sun and the moon to come back by creating this noise.
So I'm curious to hear what are some of your traditions around the eclipses.
(12:06):
These are very powerful times and I
think they can carry an energy
of something being ominous and
i think it's that energy of knowing that change is coming
and change no matter how small
can sometimes be so disruptive you know
to whatever ideas to whatever direction that
(12:28):
we thought we were going in i think
this is a great place to transition into what
is the astrological significance of this
lunar eclipse i know nowadays you
know everybody's a little into astrology i personally have been an astrology
(12:49):
lover ever since i was teenager and i've always liked to dive in but nowadays
i'm trying to make more connections with not only with astrology.
But also the calendar and the perspectives of our ancestors and sort of bringing
(13:09):
a more modern take and interpretation that can be used today.
So I hope that this plays a good balance for you and meets you the right place
at the right time in your life where you're able to receive this platica.
So we are currently entering into the first, uh...
(13:35):
The next few eclipses on the Virgo, on the Pisces-Virgo axis.
This is going to be pretty much eclipses for the last two years.
Last year, we had it in Aries and Taurus, I believe.
And it brought a lot of changes in those, no, it was Scorpio and Taurus,
in those areas in our lives, Scorpio and Taurus.
(13:58):
And now we're transitioning into Pisces and Virgo.
So Pisces represents our dreams
our intuition and everything that
is spiritual while Virgo is more
grounded in what is practical our health and order and so there is going to
(14:19):
be a sort of tug and pull between these two types of energies over the next
two years and that's It's where all the changes are going to happen in our lives.
You know, for our ancestors in the Anahuac, the eclipses were portals,
portals in which the gods would descend upon the earth to bring the winds of
(14:44):
change and transformation.
And so I do feel that there is a connection here with two separate ideologies.
And there are so many other connections in other parts of the world where these
eclipses were viewed as periods of change.
(15:05):
So I think it's important to consider where you are in your life.
What are some of the thoughts and ideas that have been coming up for you in this time and place?
Think back to some of the events that have been happening last week, What's happening now?
What are some of the emerging themes for you? What is new in your life?
(15:29):
What is budding that maybe wasn't there before?
When we think about this Pisces and Virgo energy.
We have to think about how we can bring our dreams, that's that Piscean energy,
very dreamy, very beautiful, very romanticizing the possibilities.
(15:52):
You know, those mystical dreams, how can we bring those dreams into reality with Virgo?
Virgo is a very devoted energy.
It is creating ritual in the everyday.
Now, how can we bring that spirituality into our daily practice?
Practice that's that's how i'm seeing this energy playing out in multiple facets
(16:20):
and multiple expressions so if you've been studying something you've been diving
deep into something how do you create a practice out of this.
Eclipses, no matter what, I think push us to release what no longer serves us
emotionally or spiritually.
(16:41):
And also to embrace clarity in our relationships, health, and service to others.
Pisces is an energy that rules over love.
And Virgo asks
us how devoted are we to cultivating love
in our lives and Virgo can be
(17:04):
an energy that can be very critical because
it's always in a pursuit of purification a purifying of making something better
and I think at times when we're put together with love you know that critical
energy may not always go,
(17:25):
but it is important to be practical in our approach to making our dreams come
true or our relationships or whatever it is that we're trying to work on.
I do think that eclipses offer a sort of cosmic reset that encourage us to dive
into deep personal transformation.
(17:45):
What part of your life right now feels unbalanced? Maybe where there's too much
dreaming going on or too much practicality.
Sometimes we're on either end of the spectrum, so it is important that we take that time to reflect.
How can you restore harmony during this eclipse?
We are currently on a Tochli Tresena.
(18:08):
You know, let's point out some of the connections here with the Meshika calendar.
The Meshika calendar, the Tonalpawali, it's the sacred ritual calendar,
the count of destinies, and each day was significant.
Last night, during the eclipse, the eclipse fell on an Osomatli day.
(18:32):
A day of community. So, matli is the monkey.
The monkey is an energy of sensuality, of romance, of flirtatiousness,
which again, you know, you can say that there's a connection there with Pisces,
but it is a sign of connection.
You know, monkeys are not solitary creatures. They gather with others.
(18:53):
They're always in communion with others.
They're always grooming rooming each other. You know, they're always put together.
They're funny. You know, it always brings in that medicine of love and laughter.
And so I think it's important to look on what day of the calendar it also falls on.
(19:13):
So it falling on Osomatli, I feel that is going to bring themes around community,
around love, around those interpersonal relationships.
And something Something about the duality of Osamatli is that Osamatli can sometimes
not take itself serious enough,
you know, sort of making the jokes at the wrong time, or sometimes taking itself
(19:37):
too seriously and not knowing how to laugh and just flow with life.
So again, bringing in this theme of bringing in balance into our lives.
And not only that, but Osomatli is accompanied or where it's part of the Tresena of Tochli.
So Tochli is rabbit. So we're in a 13-day cycle of the rabbit.
(20:01):
Rabbit has everything to do with the lunar forces as its gestational period is 28 days long.
It's got everything to do with abundance.
You know, rabbits, they procreate every 28 days. That's why there's so many
of them. I feel that Tochli energy can teach us to let go, to not live with
(20:22):
scarcity mentality, that there is always more.
It can also teach us about laughter and joy, and sometimes even the foolishness
of drunkenness, for they say
that in drunkenness, it was the spirit of Tochli that would possess you.
So the lunar forces are also associated with okli, with pulke,
(20:44):
with the sweet nectar, the mage, you know, the intoxication.
And I think one of the dualities of tochli as well is anxiety.
You know, how to not give in to that anxiety of, you know, fear of scarcity, etc.
(21:06):
So I want you to also take some time to consider, you know, if there is some
anxiety, you know, where in your life are you maybe keeping that scarcity mentality?
I think we're being asked right now with these energies to expand our awareness
of what is possible, to allow yourself to dream, to dare to dream a bigger dream.
(21:31):
Allow yourself to romanticize and to think about the We need that mystical,
dreamy possibility to also keep us motivated and also to keep us creative if
we're so grounded in the practical and the reality of what we're doing.
(21:54):
What we've come to believe is
possible, then we're less likely to think outside the box or push further.
And it is when you have that dream, it is when you believe it's possible that
you can push through with that ambition.
Tochli itself is an energy of perseverance. It is an energy that resides to
(22:19):
the south, the realm of Witsilopochtli, willpower,
and Tochli is a warrior energy as well.
As much as it can represent children, it's also that energy represents children
because of all the little rabbits, but it can also represent this perseverance and this.
(22:42):
Protectiveness that the rabbit has.
I don't know if you know this, but rabbits are some of the more The violent
little creatures that we have here on the planet, they're extremely territorial.
I don't know if anyone's read Watership Down or seen the movie. It's pretty spooky.
For a lot of us, it is something that was required.
(23:03):
It was required for me in high school to read it, but it was good and spooky.
But my point is that rabbits can be very violent.
And for our ancestors, they would also represent that war-like spirit.
So we're being, the warrior in us is also being asked to emerge,
(23:23):
to fight for our dreams, you know, to be devoted to our dreams in order to make them a reality.
If you have a moment to take a moment to ask yourself the question of how can
we align with these natural cycles to navigate both personal and collective change.
(23:47):
Whatever it is that you've got going on right now, the eclipse sort of opens
a six-month portal between now and the next eclipse, right?
And whatever is budding for you now is something that's going to be explored.
In this passage of time and for the next two years as we deepen these connections.
(24:09):
So I hope that you'll take some time to reflect on that.
I wanted to pull some cards out today and see what our ancestors take on this is,
asking them to channel a message for us as we navigate this so for all of those
(24:30):
listening if you feel called to receive this message here is for you begin by shuffling the cards.
A moment to slow down i know this is a
podcast you know but part of me i'm just
reminding that part of also to slow down
(24:50):
to take in the moment i don't have to rush that there is time and those that
are willing will take the time to to listen to this you know those to whom this
message is for Or what take the time to listen to this?
So trusting, trusting that there is time, trusting that there is time.
(25:14):
I feel that that is part of the message, Utu.
There is time to look in the mirror as well. It's an important thing to look
in the mirror. And that's very also matri, too.
Take the time to look in the mirror. Take the time to, you know,
smooth out your little, your little, como se dice, tu gallo on your head.
(25:37):
Take the time to feel good, to feel good about yourself, to give yourself some love.
All right. Let me pull the card.
Mira. Okay. I can't make these things up.
You know, even just recording this, you know, I'm sitting here alone having this conversation,
(26:02):
knowing, of course, that you're out there, at least trusting,
you know, trusting that you're out there and that someone is listening to this,
bearing witness to this.
But sometimes the cards really, really amaze me and really remind me of the
magic and the beauty that surrounds us.
And I think that's also part of the message. The first card we have here is YOLO Yaukiski.
(26:25):
I am reading today from Mi Corazon Mexica's Yo Alia Heka Tarot.
It is currently my favorite.
But the first card is YOLO Yaukiski, which is the heart warrior.
And I think it aligns perfectly with what we've been discussing today. day.
The heart warrior is here. The heart warrior is you.
(26:45):
It's time to go after your heart's desires to offer your devotions,
your love, all of your resources now.
Dare to go after what you've been wishing, what you've been dreaming for in
order to create this reality that I think we all are trying to collectively work toward.
(27:10):
We need to follow our bliss, follow the things that we love.
And I feel that my generation grew up with that idea of, like,
follow your dreams, you know, but I felt that we were met with that.
Lots of big roadblocks with the structure of society.
(27:31):
And I also believe it's up to us to create the society where that is possible.
Because that is deep down inside, I feel that that is part of a belief that we have.
And even if that belief has been dashed a few times, I still think that that is still within us.
And Yoli Yaukiski is is
(27:53):
accompanied here by Chalchisiwat which is
if you read tarot we have we have the knight of cups and we have the queen of
coins okay Chalchisiwat this is the the lady of the Chalchiwit or the lady of
jade and I feel that both of these energies represent
(28:15):
the Paisen Virgo energy.
And we even have some, we have some Xochiquetzalien, some Huitzilopochtli energy
here reminding us of the beauty of the world and what is worth fighting for.
It is worth fighting for your, for the things that you love,
for the beautiful things that you want to create.
(28:36):
It is so important to create beauty around you,
which is also a message it is imperative
that we create a beautiful world that
we allow our inner artist
to shine and both of these energies here are looking straight at the next card
(28:57):
which is the seven of yolot which is a card that is about dreams about that
daydreaming energy like yes spend some time,
let your mind,
let yourself daydream, have that fantasy of what you believe is possible or
what you would like to be possible.
(29:21):
Moment that you can really see it like, oh, my heart truly desires this.
I didn't know this is what it desires, but I see it now.
That's the moment that you have to snap back out of your dream and start taking
those steps forward to make it possible.
You can't just let it be a dream.
It's time to go after what you really want. And I find it interesting when this
(29:44):
card shows up for us because when this card shows up, I find that the universe, creator.
You know, the great spirit, the great mystery sends us many other things that maybe we once wanted.
Maybe you were caught in the capitalistic narrative that you wanted,
(30:04):
you know, I don't know, this job or this house or whatever, these things that
you once really coveted.
And sometimes when you're on the precipice of moving toward that dream,
the universe tests you and it dangles these things in front of you like a carrot
to see if you really are going to put in that devotion and that energy to go after what you want.
(30:31):
And so I believe that is where we are.
This is a message to stand up for the things that you love, to be that warrior
of the heart, to have that willpower to persevere and fight and fight for it.
You know, especially if this is a relationship, you know, or,
or a dream, or you want to go to school or whatever it may be, you have to fight for it.
(30:55):
You can say yes to your heart and now you have to follow it up with that action,
with that devotion. ocean.
Anything that we want to happen in this world, we do have to put in some energy.
Some love, some kopal into the fire, right? Some prayers.
So I invite you, I invite you to allow yourself to daydream,
(31:20):
to dream about what it is that you want.
Want, truly want. And you'll see when you open your eyes that you have the resources
that you need to make it happen.
And the resources that you don't have, trust that they will appear when you start to take action.
(31:44):
The universe creator wants to help us with what it is that we want to do.
But if we don't know what we want to do, how can it help us, right?
So the first and The most important thing for us is to be clear with our desires,
with our wants, so that everybody can get to work to make it happen.
And especially if this is a dream that aligns you with your tonali.
(32:11):
And if you don't know what a tonali is, I highly recommend that you get a tonalamat,
you know, that you find out what your tonali is, which is the day you're born on.
When we're talking about this eclipse, we said it fell on an Osomatli day with the Tochli Tresena.
Okay, you are born on a special day as well.
That your whole life, if you align your energies with the Arthanali,
(32:37):
things could truly flow.
And that's going to have to be something that we'll talk about on another day.
But it is something that I
want to me personally as part of my wild
dream is to be able to talk about
these things in a way that we can
in the same way that we can understand Virgo and Pisces that I can say Chocowetsi
(33:00):
and Tochli and you know the energies that we have Sochipili and Eastli and that
you will understand these energies as much as you do the Pisces and the Virgo, etc.
So that's part of my little mission and you're bearing witness to my little dream and...
(33:22):
That you give yourself permission for for whatever
dream that you have before we proceed
i want to close off this message
here with the with the cards from a message here in my book and hear the flipping
of the pages again i can't make these things up i am in awe But the message
(33:48):
that we got today is kalpuli,
family, community.
Reach out to your loved ones and allow yourself to be supported.
Listen for a helpful word and be guided in the right direction.
Tell those you care about that you love them. This is too short.
No, life is too short to stay angry.
(34:10):
Your kalpuli is not limited by blood. It is expanded by love.
You can choose your Calpulli.
And I can read it to you in Spanish as well. Calpulli, familia, comunidad.
Acércate a tus seres queridos y permÃtete ser apoyado.
Escucha palabras de apoyo o permÃtete ser guiado en la dirección correcta.
(34:37):
Dile a quienes te importan que los amas. La vida es demasiado corta para permanecer enojado.
Tu Calpulli no es tan imitado por la sangre.
Se expande por el amor. Puedes elegir tu Calpulli.
This from my book, Platoli Oracle, and I feel that this message here with Kalpuli
(35:00):
is a perfect closing off this reading,
especially considering that the eclipse has happened on an Osamatli day.
And as we explored earlier, Osamatli is a creature that thrives in its community.
And so on top of, on top of, you know, you pursuing your dreams as an individual,
(35:25):
I think it also allows or gives permission to others within your community to do the same.
And sometimes we hold each other
hostage to whatever unwritten agreements that we have in the society.
You know, everybody wants to work four-hour days, you know,
but the moment a business closes early or whatever it may be,
(35:47):
we get angry you know we continue to uphold the
same structures that are keeping us prisoner that we
don't really want to participate in anymore so if
you no longer want to participate in something you have to also allow others
you also have to allow others to not participate in it and you can't uphold
(36:07):
those same standards so as much as this is about an individual this is also
about the collective and community.
So give yourself permission to follow your dreams, but also give others the same privilege.
And really acknowledging with gratitude that it is a privilege.
It is a privilege to be able to dream.
(36:29):
And we have to dream. We have to believe that we can make something out of this,
because the way that things are going can feel really grim at times.
Things are continuing to happen on the other side of the world and at home. There's so many issues.
(36:52):
I really do feel that we are at a precipice for something that,
But I'm choosing to believe that we will go into the right timeline together
where we can create a better world together.
And every little granito de arena helps.
And so let's add, let's add them together, you know, add your copal to the,
(37:16):
to the San Medio, you know, and let's elevate this collective prayer,
you know, for, for the, for the good of us all.
So, I hope that this relática has given you something more to think about and
(37:36):
deepened your connection not only to this beautiful lunar phenomena that we witnessed,
and not only the Western perspective, but also the perspective of our ancestors.
Despite the intensity and potential chaos like the Tsitsimime,
they also represent the winds of change.
(38:00):
It is important that we surrender to this transformation.
While it is challenging, it is so necessary for growth.
And that is part of the beauty. whether it's through that spiritual insight
you may hear the voices of your ancestors and your guides very strongly at this time.
(38:23):
Sure that you're not getting too swept away in the messages,
that you're forgetting the practical and grounded elements of taking action.
How can you welcome the winds of change in your life? What are you ready to release?
And what are you ready to embrace?
Thank you so much for listening from
(38:46):
my heart to yours
i hope that you will leave me
a comment let me know how this is resonating with
you was this an interesting platica for you would you like to hear more about
the tonal powali and my particular perspective on the tonal powali and at times
(39:09):
it can have its It's controversies as far as counts and those things go,
but I think those things move us away from the real mission here,
which is trying to spread that understanding and awareness of what these potentials could be.
Again, Tlaxcamati, my last final message here is just a reminder that you can
(39:32):
pick up my book, Flatoli Oracle,
in the link in my bio on my website, www.cihuamacatl.com.
You can pick up Flatoli Oracle in now black and white and soft cover,
(39:54):
or you can still pre-order a restock of the hardcover full color version of Flatoli Oracle.
Again, Again, you can pick up a copy at www.siwamasat.com. You'll find the links
to my book and my Instagram in the description of this podcast.
(40:16):
Klasika mati for listening to Offerings of Kopal. May you have a blessed week. Until next time.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com