July 23, 2025 • 59 mins
What happens when a creative writer-turned-coder ditches corporate cubicles, scales an eight-person dev team from a two-man “dumpster fire,” and decides fractional life is actually safer than a “stable” job? In this episode of Oh Frac!, host Adir Ron sits down with tech strategist and fractional CTO Tricia Ballad to dissect the crossroads of creativity, code, and chaos. Tricia reveals why meticulous documentation saved her sanity, how a single code-freeze boosted productivity 150 %, and why AI copilots are like “super-eager junior devs.” Founders drowning in duct-taped systems—and seasoned execs eyeing the fractional leap—will leave with fresh frameworks, authentic war stories, and a whole lot of heart. Tune in for zero jargon, big impact, and practical steps you can use today.
Key Takeaways: * Fractional portfolios diversify risk—and can feel more secure than a lone corporate paycheck.
* Creativity and coding share the same problem-solving DNA; both turn abstract ideas into reality.
* Startups empower rapid change: you’re never more than two steps from the decision-maker.
* Thorough documentation and enforced code freezes slash tech-debt and speed releases.
* AI code assistants are brilliant “super-junior developers”—but their work still needs human QA.
* Technical vs. non-technical founders demand different leadership styles and tool stacks.
* Scaling from two cowboy coders to a structured eight-person team starts with clear systems.
* Job security is a myth; fractional careers let leaders control their income mix.
* Define the one core impact you deliver before leaving corporate for fractional work.
* Disentangled Tech’s “Get Your Tech Together” roadmap bridges early-stage chaos to growth stage.
Chapters: 00:00 Cold open – PHP vs. coaching founders 04:30 Meet Tricia Ballad: coder, author & artist 08:45 “How the Frac Did You Get Here?” – leap to freelancing 13:00 Bureaucracy shock at Chicago Transit Authority 17:15 Fractional CTO gig: 150 % productivity turnaround 21:30 Myth-busting corporate job security 25:45 Blending creative writing with computer science 30:00 AI copilots & ethics of assisted coding 34:15 Dream-client traits and nightmare red flags 38:30 Future of fractional leadership & parting advice
Connect Tricia Ballad’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/triciaballad/ Disentangled Tech: https://disentangledtech.com/ Adir Ron’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adir-ron/
Keywords: fractional leadership, fractional CTO, startup operations, tech strategy, documentation, code freeze, AI coding assistant, creative problem-solving, founder coaching, Disentangled Tech, team scaling, job security myth, Get Your Tech Together, Adir Ron
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
.9999999999991One of the reasons I love startups is that there isn't that entrenched bureaucracy.
That no matter who you are, if you've got a good idea, you're only one or 2 steps away from the guy who makes the decision.
.00000000000182Is it plagiarizing other people's work and things like that?
Um, which I think is really more important in the pure creative work, in writing, in art, in things like that.
(00:23):
Where do you see the future of fractional?
Um, I really see fractional leadership growing, um, especially as our economy is changing so quickly.
Um, I think that it's a huge opportunity for, um, leaders who are suddenly looking at their 20-year car- corporate career and going, "Okay, that's gone now."
(00:51):
.9999999999927Welcome to Oh Frack, the podcast where top fractional leaders share their wins, struggles, and stories from the trenches, hosted by Adi Arad.
Hi, everyone.
.9999999999854And welcome to another episode of Oh Frack, uh, the podcast where we dive into the world of fractional leadership.
Uh, I'm your host, Adi Arad.
(01:12):
And, uh, today I am very delighted, uh, to be hosting Tricia.
Um- Hi, there.
I'm gr- I'm excited to be here.
And excited to have you here, Tricia.
Um, so Tricia's path to fractional leadership is, I would say, anything but ordinary.
Um, with, uh, with roots in backend development and technical writing, uh, Tricia's worn hats ranging from systems engineer to PMO coordinator for the Chicago Transit Authority.
(01:41):
Um, she's helped secure networks, coached creative founders, um, and even founded a soul work, uh, coaching studio.
.9999999999854Uh, today, uh, through Disentangled Tech, Tricia helps founders cut through the tech chaos with a sharp strategy, 0 jargon, and a whole lot of heart.
(02:03):
And, you know, I, I'm, uh, I don't talk about it a whole lot, but, um, we'll throw in the author credits there as well.
I actually co-authored, um, 3, 3, uh, books on, um, cybersecurity as well, so that's- Interesting.
I didn't- Yeah.
know that.
.0000000000291Yeah.
(02:23):
Suppose I ought to update my LinkedIn once in a while, but yeah.
Probably a, yeah, probably a good idea.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
So, so let's kick it off, uh, Tricia, with, um, with an icebreaker question.
Okay.
Um, so you've built code bases.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you've built creative businesses.
Mm-hmm.
Um, what's more complex, debugging PHP, or coaching founders?
(02:46):
Founders, easily.
Because?
Usually code does what I tell it to.
Most of the time.
Usually.
Usually.
Not
When we, when we write the right code.
.0000000000291Yes.
If I, if I speak the right language, y- the computers usually del- do what I tell them to.
Um, and I, if I, you know, follow the threads in a code base, I can usually find the problem.
(03:11):
Um, when you're building a business, it's like you're half strategy, half therapist, um, y- you know?
.0000000000291You really do dig down into the, the dirt when you're building a business.
(03:31):
I, I, I can totally relate.
And I think, uh, um, so I'm in marketing, but, um- Mm-hmm.
you know, I studied code in, in high school and I consider- Okay.
myself a relatively technical person.
And, and the one thing that I always remember about code is that the machine always does exactly and 100% what you told it- Yes.
(03:53):
to
The problem is that you probably didn't tell it the right thing to do.
Um- Yes.
and the problem is not with what the machine is executing, it's with what you input into the machine.
Yes.
Um- Absolutely.
and totally, and I totally agree that, in contrast, people do not work the same way.
Um- Yeah.
Yeah.
.0000000000291and regardless of, of what I would tell a founder, again, from the marketing perspective- Mm-hmm. 64 00:04:19,879.0000000000291 --> 00:04:23,719 uh, they would not go and do 100% of what I do exactly how I say it.
(04:23):
Um-
so the human factor is, is always a gambit, but always an interesting one.
Definitely.
Um, I remember one of the very first, um, computer science lessons I had, probably in elementary school, um, when they were teaching us this lesson actually, um, they put all of us in a room, and this was back in the '80s, so, you know, um, I'm dating myself, but anyway.
(04:51):
So they had, like, a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly and they put us in pairs and they said, "Okay, one of you is the coder, one of you is the computer."
And the coder had to tell the c- the computer how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and the c- the kid that was the computer could only do exactly what the coder told them to do.
(05:13):
And it was, I mean, by 5 minutes in, we were all on the floor giggling because, you know, we would say, "Okay, take a piece of bread."
And well-
you hadn't opened the package- The bag.
bread yet.
And, you know, and that lesson, I mean, I must've been like 8 years old, and that lesson stuck with me because it was so experiential and, you know, and so I, I just remembered that so clearly of, okay, wait.
(05:42):
And come to think of it, that lesson not only informed my future career as a programmer, but also my interactions with other people.
It's like, okay, I can't assume you know what I, I mean.
Yeah.
That's, that's a great, uh, distinction.
Um, we, we were always stuck in our own head and- Mm-hmm.
we think we know what we're saying and, but we never really know how the other- Yeah.
(06:07):
side perceives what we're saying.Right.
It's also why, um, in writing they say, you know, you can never edit your own stuff because you know what it's supposed to say.
Whereas if you hand it to a- Right.
complete stranger, they're like, "Um, this makes no sense.
You skipped, like, 3 steps."
Exactly.
Um, okay.
(06:28):
So let's-
let's talk a bit about, you know, about, uh, about you, about your journey, um, and, um- Mm-hmm.
I like to call this, "How the frack did you get here?"
So yeah, I started my career, um, in the early 2000s as a web application developer.
Um, that was back in the day when high tech meant hooking up a c- uh, website to a database.
(06:48):
And, you know, that was pretty cool.
And, um, did that for about 4 years.
And in 2004, I kind of had this moment where I realized that I was bored out of my mind-
um, spending, you know, all day long in this cubicle surrounded by tech bros who, you know, and it's like in, on one hand, they were, like, explaining stupid stuff and I'm going, "Dude, I'm the smartest person in the room and we all know it.
(07:25):
.0000000000582Leave me alone."
And, um, a- and I was doing all of the documentation for our team because I knew that if I didn't write this stuff down, if I had to come back to that code in 6 months, I wasn't gonna remember what it did.
And so for me, it was, like, just self-preservation.
(07:45):
Um, and, you know, I had- I have a degree in, I have a dual degree in computer science and creative writing, so it was like, "Okay, this is easy.
I'll just do it."
And then at 1 point, um, it was a Friday evening and I was driving home from work and my husband, who's also in tech, um, we actually met in a computer science class, um- Nice.
was adorable.
Um, but anyway.
(08:05):
Very much.
Yeah.
And, um, you know, he's talking about, "Oh yeah, you know, we solved this problem and we did this and we did that."
About halfway through the call, you know, he's like, "So what'd you do today?"
I'm like, and it was one of those moments where mouth engages before brain.
And I just said, "You know what?
It's 5 o'clock.
I'm not a programmer anymore.
(08:26):
I don't wanna talk about it."
And I realized, wait a minute, if I don't care enough about the work I'm doing to talk about it on the way home, then what am I doing with my life, you know? 116 00:08:37,761.9999999999418 --> 00:08:37,991 Yeah.
And at that point I had 2 little ones.
Um, they were, like, 2 years old and s- and 6 months old or something like that, and I was pregnant with number three, and just realized that I didn't wanna do this.
(08:54):
.9999999998836And so started to kind of look around going, "Okay, what else can I do with my life?"
And decided that I was kind of working 2 jobs.
I was a programmer and I was a tech writer.
And I thought, "You know what?
.9999999998836If I just freelance, I can work from home sitting on the floor with my kids and just do one job and get paid for it.
(09:15):
And, you know, this was long before remote work was a thing.
And so- Yeah.
um, started doing, you know, um, copywriting, building websites, um, you know, kind of just going through all of these different things and because I'm, you know, taking care of a large family and running a business and, you know, doing 3,000 other things, project management really just kind of was a life skill, you know?
(09:43):
.999999999883585I wasn't gonna survive if I didn't figure out how to-
go from chaos into some sort of organization.
.9999999998836And so I found myself, um, you know, talking to these founders, these developers about their product, and, um, so that I could document it and then going, "Okay, well, have you thought about this?"
(10:04):
And okay, I- I had one client, um, where I literally had to introduce the concept of a code freeze.
As their, you know, freelance tech writer.
I mean, I was, like, the lowest rung on the ladder there, and I was like, "Okay, dude
(10:24):
"
cannot document your software if you're changing it every 3 days."
You know?
"You have to have a code freeze so that I can go through the stable version and take screenshots and, you know, see how it actually works and, um, you know, go through step-by-step every task."
And they're like, "Oh."
(10:47):
"That makes sense."
"Yes."
You know, and I'm like, "Okay, guys."
You know?
And so that's really where I started doing a lot of the, um, the leadership and the project management and, um, you know, technical leadership.
And it really opened my eyes at that moment to how, um, disorganized and just ad hoc a lot of these things were.
(11:12):
Um, and so, you know, kind of moved on from them and really focused in on the project management and, um, was doing a lot of consulting and coaching with creative business owners and creative founders.
Um, I am also an artist.
(11:32):
Um, you can see this is one of my- Mm-hmm.
uh, early paintings that I just love.
And, um, you know, for me it, it's always been about, you know, crea- building a business is a creative act, right?
You're taking an idea and you're making it real.
And so, um, I've always been really passionate about that and about helping especially women build businesses because of the freedom that it's given me to, you know, really live life on my own terms.
(12:02):
And so I did that for a really long time.
And, um, then few years ago, uh, this opportunity with Chicago Transit Authority kind of fell into my lap and I was like, "You know what?
I'm gonna step away from my own business for a minute, take a breather."
I, I was burned out and so I took this job and originally my job was to manage their IT contracts.
(12:30):
Yeah, I don't know why they called it tech writer, but they did.
And so-
but I was basically in charge of this 7figure portfolio of IT vendors.
.0000000001164And, um, so I learned a lot there.
And I learned a lot about kind of the other side of business and how a larger organization works, 'cause I've spent my entire career in startups.
(12:52):
And, um- Right.
but there was- It's such a, a contrast, right?
It is.
It really, really is.
Just the mindset and the skills that you need to survive in that environment versus in startups.
Um, and the thing that I really learned was that I didn't like it.
I was an awful employee, um- Okay.
(13:12):
of a, of a large organization because I was sitting there going, "Okay, you guys are wasting so much time and so much money and so much effort when we could automate this and get this done in 2 days."
And I did actually do a lot of that.
Uh, um, my manager there, um, was very, very supportive and when I came to him and said, "Look, you know, here's this process that's taking 2 weeks of me literally walking into people's office and saying, 'Please, for the love of God, sign this.'" You know, and, "Hey, so have you signed this yet?"
(13:50):
You know.
.000000000116415And I'm like, "I could s- take 2 days and automate this process and then I don't have to go and harass grown men to do their homework."
And, um, you know, and so he's like, "Yeah, sure.
Fine.
Take 2 days, do what you want."
And I did.
And I implemented this across the, um, IT department.
(14:11):
Um, and then w- was starting to push it into the larger procurement, um, department when I left that position, um, because I had, um, this other startup here in Chicago had reached out to me and, um, they were looking for a fractional depart- uh, director of technology and I'm like, "Sure, I'll talk to you.
(14:34):
Why not?"
And so, you know, I talked to them and I'm like, in the first 20 minutes of the conversation I had a m- list of 20 things that I could do to improve their business. 180 00:14:46,598.9999999998836 --> 00:14:46,879 You know?
And I'm like, yeah, this love, when that happens.
.0000000001164Yeah, exactly. 183 00:14:50,699.0000000001164 --> 00:14:53,519 And I'm like, "Okay, this sounds like a fun challenge."
And so I left CTA and went to that, um, company on a f- on a fractional basis, um, and realized that, um, yeah, I, my home is in the startup world and, um, one of the reasons I love startups is that there isn't that entrenched bureaucracy.
(15:16):
That no matter who you are, if you've got a good idea, you're only one or 2 steps away from the guy who makes the decisions.
And so, you know, you can really make an impact and you can make things happen.
Um, and so I spent about 8 months there, um, with that client and when, I took them from 2 guys as their entire tech department, um, to a team of 8 full-time developers.
(15:43):
And really- That's a nice growth.
Yeah.
.9999999998836Yeah. 191 00:15:46,858.9999999998836 --> 00:16:02,979 Um, and it was really, really nice because I was able to, um, like implement that transition from, um, like a couple of cowboys who were-
yeah, literally these, there were 2 guys who, and nobody had a clue what they were doing.And, you know, I mean, the stories I could tell you, but anyway.
(16:14):
And I'm not gonna mention their name because, or the name of the company because, um, they really, I mean, they were wonderful guys, I, you know, really good friends with, with them to this day even though I'm not working with them anymore.
Um, but it was an absolute dumpster fire.
.0000000001164And, um, you know. 196 00:16:33,583.0000000001164 --> 00:16:56,144 And, you know, I'm really proud of the fact that when I left, there were really solid systems in place, um, everybody knew what was going on, who was doing what, and, you know, in the, what, 2 months, th- where I was actually tracking productivity data, we went f- we increased productivity by 150%. 197 00:16:56,834.0000000001164 --> 00:16:57,742.9999999998836 I mean, that's- Right. 198 00:16:57,742.9999999998836 --> 00:16:58,623 huge.
(16:58):
Right?
In 2, in 2 months, that's quite a lot.
In 2 months.
Yes.
Yeah.
.9999999998836Which on one hand I would love to say it's because I'm brilliant. 205 00:17:05,302.9999999998836 --> 00:17:10,663 On the other hand, it also shows you how much growth was, you know, right there, there was so much low-hanging fruit.
Yeah.
.0000000001164Um, so that was, that was really, really fun. 208 00:17:13,843.0000000001164 --> 00:17:20,723 And, um, so this January, um, got the phone call that you always get when you work with
(17:20):
yeah, not always, but, you know, you kinda always have that expectation in the back of your head when you work with a startup. 210 00:17:26,43.000000000116415 --> 00:17:30,543.0000000002328 I got a phone call from the CEO and he said basically, "Look, revenues weren't where we expected them to be. 211 00:17:30,543.0000000002328 --> 00:17:31,824 We just can't afford to keep you on."
"Okay."
You know, that's, that's how it is.
And, and- It's part of the risk.
Y- yeah.
And that's part of the risk that you run with startups.
(17:40):
Um, although one thing that I've, I've learned over the years, because, um, you know, like I said, my husband and I are both in IT.
He's the exact opposite of me.
He is like Mr.
Corporate.
.9999999997672You know, he wants to go to work at 8:30, be done at 4:00, and that's it.
You know, collect, you know, do his job, collect his paycheck, he's done.
(18:04):
Um, and yet over the years, what I've noticed and what I've understood is that having that corporate job, we all kind of learned through osmosis that, well, you know, you want a good, stable corporate job.
And that's, that's a myth.
It's not true.
.0000000002328You know, look at what's happening in the government right now, for example.
(18:26):
I mean, my mother was a government employee.
She worked for the Forest Service for 20 years. 229 00:18:32,842.9999999997672 --> 00:18:39,952 And, you know, at that time, w- you know, if you got hired by the government, you had a job for life.
You know, I mean, you had to really screw up to get let go from the gov- from a government job.
.99999999976717And, you know, and now we're seeing that, no, that s- that job security is a myth, um, you know. 232 00:18:54,342.99999999976717 --> 00:19:08,723 And so to me, the way I see startups is, and especially fractional leadership, is that I'm act- I actually have a more stable job than my husband does because, um- Interesting.
(19:08):
.9999999997672if, well, if, m- let's say my biggest client goes under tomorrow.
I have 4 more. 235 00:19:17,23.00000000023283 --> 00:19:18,288 You know, I'm still gonna pay the bills.
I might have to, you know, ramp up a little bit, um, you know, go and try and, like, do some more outreach and pull in a couple more clients.
(19:29):
.9999999997672But I'm never gonna have that pit of the stomach, "Oh god, what am I gonna do now?" 238 00:19:36,418.00000000023283 --> 00:19:36,483 Right.
Whereas if you get laid off from a corporate job, there's your entire income gone.
You know?
And so that's kind of my story.
Um, you know, once, when they, when I got that phone call, um, you know, I kinda knew that I had done what I needed to do at that company, so I was already starting to think about, "Okay, what's my next step?"
(19:58):
And, um, so I, I kind of relaunched Disentangled Tech with this renewed emphasis on fractional leadership.
And, um, one of the big changes that I've made in the business is previously I really loved working with early stage startups, and I still do.
(20:18):
I mean, I am super passionate about taking that idea, taking it from idea stage to, you know, launch.
Yeah.
But, I've also realized that there's a tiered, um, reality here where, uh, I can't afford to work one-on-one with those founders, because they can't afford to work with me.
And so, I'm now I'm working with growth stage startups and implementing those systems that take them out of chaos, um, so they can grow sustainably.
(20:49):
Um, and then I'm actually working on a couple of other projects that are designed to help those early stage startups get to the point where they can work one-on-one with me and, and afford that fractional leadership.
And here we are.
And that brings us to today.
And here we are.
Um, so that's, uh, that's quite a story.
(21:10):
Yeah.
Um, and, you know, I, I, I love how your, you know, your, your career trajectory has been, you know, one thing and then another.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, and how it kind of converges together.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but, you know, I'm kind of wondering, um, where
(21:33):
You know, so, so really going back to, to the beginning of your story- Yeah.
Uh, you talked about, having dual degrees and- Yeah.
and how it's like, to me, it seems almost, um, opposites in a way.
Mm-hmm.
Because, um, it's, you know, uh, it's when you typically think of, you know, someone in engineering, a CTO, you typically think of someone who's like very, very straightforward thinker, very, very technical, very orient, uh, oriented towards like processes and, and- Yes.
(22:10):
it's someone that is not by default a very creative person.
Um, and you come from, you know, from creative writing, um, and you're an artist, um, and like, I'm wondering how does, how does that come by?
I love, I love that it combines- How does
Exactly.
(22:32):
Yeah.
Um, because I, I can say for myself, you know, I'm on marketing and in marketing it's actually considered an advantage if you're both.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
you be, you know, the creative guy that throws up, you know, the, the, the, the, the fun out of the box, whimsical, uh, uh- Yes.
Yes.
creative bri- briefs.
But then you can also open an Excel sheet and pivot table the results and analyze the campaign's performance.
(22:58):
Right.
Then that's a really like strong suit of, of, you know- Mm-hmm.
.0000000002328combined skills. 280 00:23:04,639.0000000002328 --> 00:23:04,839 Yeah.
But I'm won- wondering, you know, in, in, in the development What in the world is going on in my brain?
That's one way to say it, yes.
So,
Yeah.
So, um, and y- there's like so many ways I could go with this.
(23:20):
Um, so I guess I've always been creative, like from my earliest, earliest memories.
I was writing stories, I was drawing, I was
You know, I always wanted to, you know, make something.
Um, that was how I entertained myself.
Um, and that's still true today.
(23:41):
Um, actually, if you, the, when you walk into my house, you walk into my studio.
Um, I actually have claimed kind of that front room as that's my studio space, and, um, and I love that.
So when I was, I don't know, like 16, junior in high school, um, deciding where, what I was gonna major in, where I was gonna go to school, blah, blah, blah, I was talking to my mother one day, and, um, you know, I was telling her, "Look, I think I really wanna major in creative writing."
(24:13):
I, you know, and she said, "You know what?
That's great.
You're very talented, you know, but maybe major in something you can support yourself in."
I was like, "Okay, great."
You know, and it was like at that time, my snotty little teenage brain was like, "Mm, you know, you can't tell me not to be an artist."
(24:41):
Um, but at the same time, it was like I had seen her struggles.
Um, my mother was a poet, and she wrote one book of self-published poetry that I have, uh, I have a copy on my shelf, and it is
I have 2.
I have one on my shelf and I have one in my fire safe because I think, you know, it's one of those things where if my house burned down, it would break my heart to lose it.
(25:06):
And so- Right.
.0000000002328it's right there with my kids' birth certificates. 305 00:25:09,639.0000000002328 --> 00:25:25,918.9999999997672 Um, but she didn't have the opportunity to explore that because, um, at the time, we lived in a very rural community up in northern California, um, she had 6 kids in 10 years, and then 11 years old, 11 years later I came along. 306 00:25:25,918.9999999997672 --> 00:25:28,299 So she was very much
(25:28):
Oh.
Yeah.
.00000000023283I was, yeah. 310 00:25:30,139.00000000023283 --> 00:25:38,339 And so, you know, she was very much a, um, traditional housewife for most of her adult life.
And then, um, when I was very young, she took this job with the Forest Service.
Um, she had actually gotten a degree in accounting when she was young, and which honestly I think that would destroy my soul.
(25:50):
But anyway, um- I can relate.
Yeah.
And so, you know, I, the woman that I remember as my mother, um, was a working woman, and she, you know-
did all of these things because she needed to have that independence, and that's what she wanted for me, was to not have my life circumstances depend on, you know, the whims of anyone else.
(26:16):
And I respect that for her, from her.
And so I did, I majored in computer science.
Um, freshman year of college, met this guy , um, 4 kids and a mortgage later, here we are.
But anyway, um, that's a whole different story.
And, um, so long story short, I was always that smart kid, you know?
(26:38):
.00000000023283I was always the kid that got the good grades, did, you know, was in, you know, led every club I, I joined, you know, all of this stuff. 323 00:26:47,235.00000000023283 --> 00:26:54,831.9999999997672 And then freshman year of college, I failed, like really failed for the first time in my life.
Um, I literally failed out of
Now the fact that I- Wow.
(27:00):
.00000000023283you know, had met my first serious boyfriend, and he was a lot more interesting than my classes, you know, I mean, may have had something to do with it. 327 00:27:08,235.00000000023283 --> 00:27:08,635 Um
Probably.
Turns out, yeah, turns out that if you wanna do well in school, um, going to classes is a really good place to start.
Um-
doing your homework, things like that.
Anyway, so, um, in order to be readmitted, I had to write this letter to the admissions office explaining what I was gonna do differently and how I was going to be successful.
(27:30):
And, uh, so I spent that summer really, really doing a lot of soul searching.
And I thought, "Okay," um, and the conclusion I came to was, "Okay, I'm gonna double major."
I'm gonna keep computer science, because I'd always been good at tech.
I'd always been, you know
For me, programming was a creative act.
It was another expression of creativity, because again, you're taking an idea and you're making it real.
(27:54):
A reality.
You're making it into something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so I said, "Okay, I'm gonna double major."
Because, and my thought process was, "Okay, if I'm interested in half my classes, I'll go to all of them, even the boring ones."
And, um- Okay.
it worked.
I actually graduated, uh, cum laude with honors, and, um, had a 4.0 my last year.
(28:18):
Uh, so I, you know, I grew up a lot and I learned a lot.
.00000000023283And, um, yeah, so that's kind of how I combined the 2, but also kind of used the creativity to support the, the tech. 350 00:28:33,235.00000000023283 --> 00:28:50,63.99999999976717 And, you know, really what I learned was that, um, you know, like I said, when you're writing code, it, it's, um, I kind of, I, I, see, it's, it's a different form of poetry, because it's an imperfect way of describing an idea.
(28:50):
Um, and so, you know, and you're kind of starting from a blank page, and then, you know, you work on it, and then there's a thing that, you know, you can't hold in your hand, but you can see it on your screen and it does things.
And so that was always really exciting for me.
Um, and then of course, um, you know, kind of going into where I am now, where I'm not doing as much development.
(29:15):
Um, I'm more pulling in existing tools and integrating them, and, um, but it's still creative because it's problem solving.
And really that's all creativity is, it's problem solving, so
Exactly.
Yeah.
Wondering, um, I'm gonna go a bit off script here for a second, but I'm wondering how, you know, I, I, I, I totally relate with, you know, how coding is, is creative work in essence.
(29:42):
Mm-hmm.
.00000000023283And, you you're taking an idea and you're materializing it into something. 361 00:29:48,195.00000000023283 --> 00:29:48,595 Uh- Yeah.
maybe not physical, but it's still something.
Yeah.
Um, wondering what's your take on vibe coding and all of the new AI- Oh.
platforms that help you, you know- Mm-hmm.
just write a prompt and get something, um, off the air, um- Yes.
(30:07):
.0000000002328Yeah. 368 00:30:07,715.0000000002328 --> 00:30:08,975 What's your take on that?
On, and from, from a creativity perspective?
Sure.
.0000000002328So, um, as far as like coding goes, um, there are some really, really nice, um, AI code assistants that I think are just absolutely brilliant. 372 00:30:25,715.0000000002328 --> 00:30:26,619 I love them.
Because, um, you know, for example, um, GitHub's Copilot.
(30:31):
Um, there's a lot of, of those tools out there.
Because, really the creative act is not in knowing syntax, right?
Um, the creative act is in imagining a result and then working backwards to figure out how to implement it.
Um, and so I am a huge proponent of letting the computer do as much work as I can make it do so that I don't have to do the boring stuff.
(31:03):
I get bored really easily and I think that's true of a lot of creatives.
Um, I would much rather spend my time and energy coming up with crazy new ideas and then let somebody else, like the computer, do all the busy work.
Um, and so, you know, as far as that goes, I'm, I'm all for it, um, with the caveat that you can't trust it completely.
(31:31):
You have to check its work.
Um, I have had plenty of
I mean, I use AI in a lot of different ways in my business.
Um, but I tend to use it as a crappy first draft.
Um
Okay.
Yeah, that wa- that was always the, the, um, uh, the thing that we did in my writing classes was, um, you know, just get a crappy first draft done because you can't edit something that's not on paper.
(32:02):
Once it's on paper, you can work with it.
And so that's how I use AI.
Um, or for example, um, I was working on an integration the other day and it was in Python.
Well, I, I've not used Python.
.0000000002328Is it that 393 00:32:19,639.0000000002328 --> 00:32:26,640 You know, I can read it because it's very, very similar to the 15 other languages that I've used over the years.
(32:27):
But I would spend 3 hours fighting with the code because I got the syntax wrong or, you know, there's this little tiny tweaks that- Yeah.
Python does that PHP doesn't.
And it would just be frustrating and tedious and annoying. 397 00:32:43,639.0000000002328 --> 00:32:52,304 Um, so what I did was I wrote pseudo code and said, uh, fed it to the AI and said, "Here, spit this out in Python."
(32:53):
So that's te- that tends to be how I use it.
Um, and then of course, I, you know, went through and double checked that yes, this actually does what I want it to do and it's not doing anything crazy.
Yup.
Um, so for that, uh, especially in coding, I really don't have a problem with it, um, as long as you're using it, you know, reasonably.
(33:14):
I, I k- I tend to think of it as my like super junior developer.
Um, um- Okay.
That's an interesting perspective.
Yeah, yeah.
And like when- very eager junior developer.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Um, and there are of course ethical considerations in terms of like, um, you know, is it plagiarizing other people's work and things like that.
(33:43):
.00000000023283Um, which I think is really more important in the pure creative work, in writing, in art, in things like that. 410 00:33:50,139.00000000023283 --> 00:33:54,000 Um, because with code it's like, it's just code.
The, the work that you've put in is in your design, in your algorithm, in your imple- not necessarily in your implementation and that's where the AI is coming in,
(34:06):
I agree.
Um, and kind of seguing, seguing from that, um, do you feel a difference working with founders who are technical versus founders who are non-technical?
.9999999997672Definitely. 415 00:34:22,519.0000000002328 --> 00:34:22,928 Oh, yeah.
.99999999976717Um, and you know, there are challenges in both places.
(34:29):
.00000000023283When I'm working with a non-technical founder, um, it's easier in some ways because they will tell me, "Okay, these are my pain points, these are my problems, this is what I'm struggling with."
.0000000002328Um, I had a conversation with a pote- a potential client yesterday actually who basically got on the phone and said, "Look, I am spending 30 hours on this manual process. 419 00:34:55,619.0000000002328 --> 00:34:56,759 Is there anything I can do?"
(34:56):
And I'm like, "Oh, yeah.
We just have to put this and this and this together and you're fine.
It'll take, you know, it'll be automated and we'll send you a dashboard every 2 days."
And he just looked at me like, "Really?"
"Oh, that'd be great."
Yeah.
You know?
And it's like I feel like I need a little wizard hat.
Yeah.
Because, you know, it's like e- e- because to a non-technical founder or, or person it's, you know, what I do is magic.
(35:23):
Um, and that's, that's always fun and, and it's great because, um, we can just cut through all of the business, uh, the red tape and be like, "Yeah, I can solve your problem.
I'll send you a quote."
And it's easy.
When I'm working with, um, technical people though, um, on one hand they tend to have their own opinions, which we all do, um, and their own favorite ecosystems and tools and, you know, "Well, that's great but I want it over here," and, and things like that.
(35:57):
And so it's a little more i- i- you know, you kind of have to make a few more compromises because I don't just get to put my favorite tools in place.
Um, I have to, you know, take their preferences in p- into consideration.
But at the same time-
the conversation tends to go higher faster because they already ha- we're starting here instead of starting here.
(36:19):
Um, and so, you know, I can go in and they're gonna tell me, "Okay," you know, "Look, I know that, that"
You know, for the, this conversation I had yesterday, they can tell me, "Look, you know, um, I know there's a way to automate this data analysis stuff.
(36:42):
Um, should we use Tableau, Splunk, or BI?"
.99999999953434And I can then sit there and go, "Okay, well, here's what BI is good for. 442 00:36:51,288.99999999953434 --> 00:36:56,720.0000000004657 Splunk is great for unstructured data, and you're working with Excel spreadsheets, so we, we probably oughta go with Tableau."
And so it's like, it's a different level of conversation. 444 00:37:00,788.9999999995343 --> 00:37:08,560 Um, and a lot of times we will end up riffing off each other, um, especially if we get into, like, the, the code.
(37:09):
And they'll be like, "Well, but what if we built it this way?
And what if we did this?"
And then it's like, you know, it's, it's sort of a creative brainstorming, so that's always fun.
Um
Mm.
so let's, let's segue that into my, uh, next question, uh- Okay.
which is, um, what's your one fracked up moment?
(37:32):
Oh, boy.
Um, in your career?
Just one?
Uh, just
Only one?
1.
There have been many.
There have been many.
Um
Like in any good career.
Uh, but try to- Of course.
Try to think of, of one where you're like- Oh my gosh.
"Okay."
Um, where I just royally fracked up, huh?
(37:53):
And, uh, and, and- Yeah.
.99999999953434how you tidied up after it, yes. 468 00:37:58,288.99999999953434 --> 00:38:00,129 Um, yes.
Actually, um, so this was actually very, very early on.
Um, I was actually still in college at the time.
.99999999953434I was the system admin for the Center for Asynchronous Learning at my university. 472 00:38:15,288.99999999953434 --> 00:38:15,309 Okay.
(38:15):
Which back in the '90s meant distance learning.
Okay.
.99999999953434Um, so we were, um, I was basically handed a lab and said, um, you know, "Hey, we wanna do distance learning with"
.99999999953434Uh, so I went to Bradley in Peoria, here in Illinois, and they wanted to do a semester-long history course with the University of Moscow. 477 00:38:43,970.0000000004657 --> 00:38:44,809 Okay.
(38:44):
And this was in, like, '97, '98, something like that.
So I was like, "Uh, okay."
And they basically handed me, they said, "Here, figure it out and make it happen." 481 00:38:58,788.9999999995343 --> 00:38:59,549 can do that.
Sure."
And so, um, you know, I'm sitting there this one afternoon on the server.
(39:05):
And, uh, I don't even remember what I was working on, um, trying to fix something.
And, uh, it was getting late.
Some friends came by, like, "Um, dude, if you wanna get dinner, we better go 'cause the cafeteria's getting closed."
.00000000046566And so, um, and if you have tech people listening, they're gonna, um, this is gonna make their eyes bleed. 488 00:39:30,229.00000000046566 --> 00:39:37,520 But I yeah, I moved the user directory from one, um, hard drive to another.
(39:38):
So I just did- Okay.
you know, move /usr to wherever it was. 491 00:39:43,229.00000000046566 --> 00:39:44,976 And then I logged off.
'Cause of course you log off the server when you leave the, the lab.
And came back after dinner and went to log back on and I had blue screened the server.
(40:01):
Because you can't log in because now it's not where
Because the user directory wasn't there anymore.
Yeah.
And I'm sitting here going, "Oh, crap.
Oh, crap.
Oh, crap."
"What am I gonna do?"
.0000000004657You know, because I can't even log into the damn thing to fix it. 502 00:40:16,729.0000000004657 --> 00:40:22,448 And so I ended up calling, um, 2 or 3 friends that, um
(40:23):
And we spent probably, I don't know, 7 or 8 hours, I don't even remember what time it was when we left.
Um, but we had to reinstall the server from floppies to get it.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah.
And thank God I had just taken a backup like the day before or something, on floppies.
So it was like, you know, we fig-, we figured it out but I was in
(40:46):
That was probably the worst panic of my career, was that moment when it was like I
And I knew like the minute I tried to log in and like it didn't even bring up a login screen.
And I'm like, "Oh, crap.
I know what I did.
How do I fix this?"
You know.
Yeah.
And, um
But it's great that the first, you know, that first thought was, "I know what I did."
(41:10):
It's not like- Yes.
"Oh no, what's going on?"
It's like- Right.
I
You're, you're already starting at a much better place.
You're like- Right.
"I know-" Yeah.
where I fracked up."
Oh, yeah.
Now I gotta
(46:05):
what I love about it is that it kind of keeps everything about whatever you're doing all kind of in one place, and I love ecosystems.
I love it when everything's kind of just all in one place.
Um, and so I, I literally run my household on ClickUp-
um, you know.
Uh- This, this episode is not-
(46:27):
yet sponsored by ClickUp-
but maybe it will be.
Right, right.
No, um, and I've used
.99999999953434And there are other tools, um, that do a s- very similar thing.
It's really about, like, um, what interface is intuitive to you.
Um, I mean, I could give you a list of 7 others that do exactly the same thing in a very similar way.
(46:48):
Um, that's just the one that I like the interface of.
Okay.
Um, what's the definition of a dream client for you, and what's
And, and in contrast, what's a nightmare
Oh, boy.
Um, for me, a dream client is somebody who is you know, very
(47:13):
A founder who is very driven, who is very mission-driven, who has an impact that they wanna make, and that, um, really lets me kind of come in and do what I'm really, really good at and who is a part- who really wants to partner with me to, um, so that I can then build their tech and their infrastructure and their systems so that they can go out on stage and shine.
(47:40):
Um, I'm really good at the backside, the backend, you know.
Um, nightmare client is a non-technical client who thinks they know tech because-
um, yeah.
Because, or, uh, th- they tend to be really micro-managing.
(48:01):
They tend to question every decision I make, um, and the type of client who instead of as really focused on their goals and what they wanna do is, you know, like
I mean, I've got a huge, um, patience for ADD people 'cause I'm ADD too, but when you are jumping from goal, to goal, to goal, to goal, it's like, "Dude, I'm gonna get whiplash."
(48:31):
.99999999953434"Chill out." 554 00:48:32,462.99999999953434 --> 00:48:36,912 You know, "Let's get one thing done before you do, before you decide you wanna pivot to 7 others."
Okay.
I think that's a great definition of a nightmare client for me as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Um- And I've done
.9999999995343I've worked with both, so- We, we all have, yes. 560 00:48:49,962.9999999995343 --> 00:48:51,203 We all have, yeah.
Yes.
(48:52):
Um, where do you see the future of fractional?
Um, I really see fractional leadership growing, um, especially as our economy is changing so quickly.
Um, I think that it's a huge opportunity for, um, leaders who are suddenly looking at their 20-year car- corporate career and going, "Uh, okay, that's gone now," um, but who still have so much, uh, to teach and so much to give.
(49:26):
Um, and, you know, like I said earlier, it's
.9999999995343I think it's a great way to, um, diversify your, your career.
Um, and I also think it's wonderful f- because, um, you know, we're seeing, uh, so many people going, "You know what? 568 00:49:45,953.9999999995343 --> 00:49:47,903.0000000004657 I've been looking for a job" 569 00:49:47,903.0000000004657 --> 00:49:52,203 I've seen people looking for a job for 2 years, and- Yeah, that's hard.
(49:52):
part of me, eh, that's, ah, part of me is going, "How in the world are you surviving without a job for 2 years?"
You know?
I don't get it.
Um, yeah, I, I
It's like, "Okay, what are, what, what am I missing here?"
Um, you know, and for me, my
And again, I'm coming from the background I do.
My gut instinct is, "Okay, at some point, you s- you look at the writing on the wall and going, "Okay.
(50:18):
This isn't in the cards right now, so I'm going to go and start my business.
I'm gonna go do something that I am really, really good at and get 3 or 4 clients."
And so, in
for those people, I think that fractional leadership is an absolute godsend, because all of a sudden you get the benefit of, you know, people who've got, you know, millions and millions of dollars to do their startup and can hire, you know, a whole C-suite.
(50:49):
You get that same benefit, but at a much different economic level.
And so I see it as really leveling that playing field, and that's something I'm, I'm really excited about.
Same here.
Um
Yeah.
So, so that leads me to my, uh, last question for today.
Um, if you could give one piece of advice to, uh, someone, not necessarily a CTO- Mm-hmm.
(51:16):
um, who's, you know, considering, "Should I go fractional?"
Sure.
Um, what would that advice be?
All right.
So, um, my advice would be to really take some time and, you know, maybe a couple of days where you literally just close yourself in a room and figure out what is, like the one core thing that you are really, really good at, that you can walk into a business and make an impact, like day one.
(51:55):
Um, because I've seen a lot, and I've coached a lot of, um, people who are considering leaving corporate to do freelancing or consulting or now fractional work, and, um, you know, they're like, "Well, this is what I did for my corporate job, so I could just kinda do that, right?"
It's like, no.
No, no, no, no, no.
(52:17):
You know?
It's, it's not a one-to-one.
You have to really, um, narrow down, what is the impact that you make?
What do you do?
What is your work?
And then, you know, like you said, who are the people that you wanna do that work for?
Um, and, you know, in marketing, I know, I'm not telling you anything you don't know.
(52:40):
.99999999953434You know, you've gotta find your, your people, your niche. 605 00:52:43,38.99999999953434 --> 00:52:58,839 Um, I had a coach who was, um, early in my, uh, career, who made it really, really clear, because she told me, "Okay, look," um, because I was giving her this laundry list of stuff that I can do, because there's
I mean, I could, I could rattle off 10 different things that I can do right now, um, and she's like, "No, no, no, no, no.
(53:07):
That's too much.
People's eyes are gonna glaze over," you know?
Um, and I'm like, "Well, I can do this for anybody," you know?
And she's like, "No, no, no, because if I am, you know, if I meet you at a networking event and you tell me I can do programming or system admin or systems integration or project management or creative writing or tech writing or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah for anybody, who comes to mind?"
(53:37):
Your mind is blank.
You're, you're
But if I tell you- Right.
that I help growth stage founders create calm out of the chaos of their disjointed systems, now you have just thought of 3 different people who need to talk to me. 615 00:53:58,38.99999999953434 --> 00:54:00,979 my- That's a great, uh, great one-liner.
(54:00):
Uh, are you- Yeah.
sure you're not also doing marketing?
I'm not.
You know, and that's the other thing is that you have to really wrap your head around and accept the fact that once you own a business, and as a fractional you own a business, um, you're in marketing.
Amen.
You're in marketing and sales.
Welcome to it, honey.
(54:21):
You know?
Um, and I had a hard time with that for a long
in and in operations and in project management and multiple projects.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
I, you know, I swear, one of these days I'm gonna get a hat rack in my office here.
And I'm just gonna have, you know, I'm, I'm just gonna label it, you know?
All these different hats.
No.
Yes.
I, um, yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Now I am a salesperson and
(54:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, you have to figure that stuff out, um, because if you think that you're going to be able to just kind of walk in as you did with the same mindset that you did as an employee, you're never gonna get anywhere.
(55:04):
think that's a- Yeah.
great piece of advice.
Um, and I think- Mm-hmm.
that's a, a, a great place to wrap up this episode as well.
Um, so thank you very, very much, Tricia.
It's been a pleasure having you here today.
Absolutely.
Um, and for those, uh, who would love to keep in touch, um, where can they find you?
(55:27):
Yeah.
So, um, my website is disentangletech.com.
And, um, there's a little link- And if you're a founder that needs help- Yes.
disentangling their tape, their tech.
Yes.
Um, there is a little link right there on the front page to book a call with me.
Um, I, you know, one of the best parts of my day is when I get to talk to founders.
(55:48):
Um, and I actually have a program that I am beta testing right now.
.00000000046566So, um, where, you know, instead of coming in for like a 6month, 8month engagement to kind of re- overhaul everything, um 658 00:56:05,211.00000000046566 --> 00:56:08,671 what I've been hearing from a lot of my potential clients is that, "Look.
(56:08):
I'm not ready for that."
And so- Yeah.
um, I've got this new program, um, called Get Your Tech Together and I will let your imagination go.
Um-
.00000000046566where we s- we sit down for a 90-minute tech coaching session and really get to, and really unravel where all of the fires in your business are. 664 00:56:32,211.00000000046566 --> 00:56:40,691 And then, um, my team puts together a really, really comprehensive step-by-step roadmap with recommendations for, "Okay.
(56:40):
Here are, you know, the things that you need to do this week.
And then here are the things that maybe you can do next month, and then in 6 months," um, to start to
And it's literally the same roadmap that I would follow if I was walking into your business as a fractional.
Um, and so, you know, you get all my secrets.
And then, you know, we meet again, um, to kind of go over it and talk f- talk it through and make sure that, you know, if you got any questions, if, you know, y- you look at it and go, "Okay.
(57:09):
Well, I can't do this because of reasons," "Okay.
Well, let's figure out, you know, let's revise it on the fly and figure out what h- to how to make it work for you."
So, that's kind of a, a program that I am soft launching, kind of beta.
Um, I sent it out to a handful of my, um, contacts yesterday, so you're the first to hear it publicly.
(57:33):
Um, and so if any of your listeners- Amazing.
are interested in that, um, I would be happy to get on a call and, um, and give them the link to the, the page on my website.
It's, it's not linked anywhere.
It's actually a hidden page on my website because I haven't announced it publicly.
Um, and go from there.
(57:55):
Awesome.
So, um, if that, um, sounds like something that would be, um, interesting or relevant to any of our, uh, viewers or listeners, go to DisentangledTech- Mm-hmm.
.com, um, and- Yeah.
book a call with Tricia.
Yeah.
Um, so that's it for us today.
Uh, and, um, thank you for, for, um, chiming in, for listening.
(58:18):
Uh, if you enjoyed, uh, this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, uh, share, like, follow, tweet, do all the things that, uh, uh, people do.
Um, and again, thank you very much, Tricia, uh, for joining us today and, um- I had a great time.
we'll
was great to talk to you.
All right.
Thank you so much.
Same here.
I'll talk to you soon.
(58:38):
Um, thank you.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
.9999999999991One of the reasons I love startups is that there isn't that entrenched bureaucracy.
That no matter who you are, if you've got a good idea, you're only one or 2 steps away from the guy who makes the decision.
.00000000000182Is it plagiarizing other people's work and things like that?
Um, which I think is really more important in the pure creative work, in writing, in art, in things like that.
(00:23):
Where do you see the future of fractional?
Um, I really see fractional leadership growing, um, especially as our economy is changing so quickly.
Um, I think that it's a huge opportunity for, um, leaders who are suddenly looking at their 20-year car- corporate career and going, "Okay, that's gone now."
(00:51):
.9999999999927Welcome to Oh Frack, the podcast where top fractional leaders share their wins, struggles, and stories from the trenches, hosted by Adi Arad.
Hi, everyone.
.9999999999854And welcome to another episode of Oh Frack, uh, the podcast where we dive into the world of fractional leadership.
Uh, I'm your host, Adi Arad.
(01:12):
And, uh, today I am very delighted, uh, to be hosting Tricia.
Um- Hi, there.
I'm gr- I'm excited to be here.
And excited to have you here, Tricia.
Um, so Tricia's path to fractional leadership is, I would say, anything but ordinary.
Um, with, uh, with roots in backend development and technical writing, uh, Tricia's worn hats ranging from systems engineer to PMO coordinator for the Chicago Transit Authority.
(01:41):
Um, she's helped secure networks, coached creative founders, um, and even founded a soul work, uh, coaching studio.
.9999999999854Uh, today, uh, through Disentangled Tech, Tricia helps founders cut through the tech chaos with a sharp strategy, 0 jargon, and a whole lot of heart.
(02:03):
And, you know, I, I'm, uh, I don't talk about it a whole lot, but, um, we'll throw in the author credits there as well.
I actually co-authored, um, 3, 3, uh, books on, um, cybersecurity as well, so that's- Interesting.
I didn't- Yeah.
know that.
.0000000000291Yeah.
(02:23):
Suppose I ought to update my LinkedIn once in a while, but yeah.
Probably a, yeah, probably a good idea.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
So, so let's kick it off, uh, Tricia, with, um, with an icebreaker question.
Okay.
Um, so you've built code bases.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and you've built creative businesses.
Mm-hmm.
Um, what's more complex, debugging PHP, or coaching founders?
(02:46):
Founders, easily.
Because?
Usually code does what I tell it to.
Most of the time.
Usually.
Usually.
Not
When we, when we write the right code.
.0000000000291Yes.
If I, if I speak the right language, y- the computers usually del- do what I tell them to.
Um, and I, if I, you know, follow the threads in a code base, I can usually find the problem.
(03:11):
Um, when you're building a business, it's like you're half strategy, half therapist, um, y- you know?
.0000000000291You really do dig down into the, the dirt when you're building a business.
(03:31):
I, I, I can totally relate.
And I think, uh, um, so I'm in marketing, but, um- Mm-hmm.
you know, I studied code in, in high school and I consider- Okay.
myself a relatively technical person.
And, and the one thing that I always remember about code is that the machine always does exactly and 100% what you told it- Yes.
(03:53):
to
The problem is that you probably didn't tell it the right thing to do.
Um- Yes.
and the problem is not with what the machine is executing, it's with what you input into the machine.
Yes.
Um- Absolutely.
and totally, and I totally agree that, in contrast, people do not work the same way.
Um- Yeah.
Yeah.
.0000000000291and regardless of, of what I would tell a founder, again, from the marketing perspective- Mm-hmm. 64 00:04:19,879.0000000000291 --> 00:04:23,719 uh, they would not go and do 100% of what I do exactly how I say it.
(04:23):
Um-
so the human factor is, is always a gambit, but always an interesting one.
Definitely.
Um, I remember one of the very first, um, computer science lessons I had, probably in elementary school, um, when they were teaching us this lesson actually, um, they put all of us in a room, and this was back in the '80s, so, you know, um, I'm dating myself, but anyway.
(04:51):
So they had, like, a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly and they put us in pairs and they said, "Okay, one of you is the coder, one of you is the computer."
And the coder had to tell the c- the computer how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and the c- the kid that was the computer could only do exactly what the coder told them to do.
(05:13):
And it was, I mean, by 5 minutes in, we were all on the floor giggling because, you know, we would say, "Okay, take a piece of bread."
And well-
you hadn't opened the package- The bag.
bread yet.
And, you know, and that lesson, I mean, I must've been like 8 years old, and that lesson stuck with me because it was so experiential and, you know, and so I, I just remembered that so clearly of, okay, wait.
(05:42):
And come to think of it, that lesson not only informed my future career as a programmer, but also my interactions with other people.
It's like, okay, I can't assume you know what I, I mean.
Yeah.
That's, that's a great, uh, distinction.
Um, we, we were always stuck in our own head and- Mm-hmm.
we think we know what we're saying and, but we never really know how the other- Yeah.
(06:07):
side perceives what we're saying.Right.
It's also why, um, in writing they say, you know, you can never edit your own stuff because you know what it's supposed to say.
Whereas if you hand it to a- Right.
complete stranger, they're like, "Um, this makes no sense.
You skipped, like, 3 steps."
Exactly.
Um, okay.
(06:28):
So let's-
let's talk a bit about, you know, about, uh, about you, about your journey, um, and, um- Mm-hmm.
I like to call this, "How the frack did you get here?"
So yeah, I started my career, um, in the early 2000s as a web application developer.
Um, that was back in the day when high tech meant hooking up a c- uh, website to a database.
(06:48):
And, you know, that was pretty cool.
And, um, did that for about 4 years.
And in 2004, I kind of had this moment where I realized that I was bored out of my mind-
um, spending, you know, all day long in this cubicle surrounded by tech bros who, you know, and it's like in, on one hand, they were, like, explaining stupid stuff and I'm going, "Dude, I'm the smartest person in the room and we all know it.
(07:25):
.0000000000582Leave me alone."
And, um, a- and I was doing all of the documentation for our team because I knew that if I didn't write this stuff down, if I had to come back to that code in 6 months, I wasn't gonna remember what it did.
And so for me, it was, like, just self-preservation.
(07:45):
Um, and, you know, I had- I have a degree in, I have a dual degree in computer science and creative writing, so it was like, "Okay, this is easy.
I'll just do it."
And then at 1 point, um, it was a Friday evening and I was driving home from work and my husband, who's also in tech, um, we actually met in a computer science class, um- Nice.
was adorable.
Um, but anyway.
(08:05):
Very much.
Yeah.
And, um, you know, he's talking about, "Oh yeah, you know, we solved this problem and we did this and we did that."
About halfway through the call, you know, he's like, "So what'd you do today?"
I'm like, and it was one of those moments where mouth engages before brain.
And I just said, "You know what?
It's 5 o'clock.
I'm not a programmer anymore.
(08:26):
I don't wanna talk about it."
And I realized, wait a minute, if I don't care enough about the work I'm doing to talk about it on the way home, then what am I doing with my life, you know? 116 00:08:37,761.9999999999418 --> 00:08:37,991 Yeah.
And at that point I had 2 little ones.
Um, they were, like, 2 years old and s- and 6 months old or something like that, and I was pregnant with number three, and just realized that I didn't wanna do this.
(08:54):
.9999999998836And so started to kind of look around going, "Okay, what else can I do with my life?"
And decided that I was kind of working 2 jobs.
I was a programmer and I was a tech writer.
And I thought, "You know what?
.9999999998836If I just freelance, I can work from home sitting on the floor with my kids and just do one job and get paid for it.
(09:15):
And, you know, this was long before remote work was a thing.
And so- Yeah.
um, started doing, you know, um, copywriting, building websites, um, you know, kind of just going through all of these different things and because I'm, you know, taking care of a large family and running a business and, you know, doing 3,000 other things, project management really just kind of was a life skill, you know?
(09:43):
.999999999883585I wasn't gonna survive if I didn't figure out how to-
go from chaos into some sort of organization.
.9999999998836And so I found myself, um, you know, talking to these founders, these developers about their product, and, um, so that I could document it and then going, "Okay, well, have you thought about this?"
(10:04):
And okay, I- I had one client, um, where I literally had to introduce the concept of a code freeze.
As their, you know, freelance tech writer.
I mean, I was, like, the lowest rung on the ladder there, and I was like, "Okay, dude
(10:24):
"
cannot document your software if you're changing it every 3 days."
You know?
"You have to have a code freeze so that I can go through the stable version and take screenshots and, you know, see how it actually works and, um, you know, go through step-by-step every task."
And they're like, "Oh."
(10:47):
"That makes sense."
"Yes."
You know, and I'm like, "Okay, guys."
You know?
And so that's really where I started doing a lot of the, um, the leadership and the project management and, um, you know, technical leadership.
And it really opened my eyes at that moment to how, um, disorganized and just ad hoc a lot of these things were.
(11:12):
Um, and so, you know, kind of moved on from them and really focused in on the project management and, um, was doing a lot of consulting and coaching with creative business owners and creative founders.
Um, I am also an artist.
(11:32):
Um, you can see this is one of my- Mm-hmm.
uh, early paintings that I just love.
And, um, you know, for me it, it's always been about, you know, crea- building a business is a creative act, right?
You're taking an idea and you're making it real.
And so, um, I've always been really passionate about that and about helping especially women build businesses because of the freedom that it's given me to, you know, really live life on my own terms.
(12:02):
And so I did that for a really long time.
And, um, then few years ago, uh, this opportunity with Chicago Transit Authority kind of fell into my lap and I was like, "You know what?
I'm gonna step away from my own business for a minute, take a breather."
I, I was burned out and so I took this job and originally my job was to manage their IT contracts.
(12:30):
Yeah, I don't know why they called it tech writer, but they did.
And so-
but I was basically in charge of this 7figure portfolio of IT vendors.
.0000000001164And, um, so I learned a lot there.
And I learned a lot about kind of the other side of business and how a larger organization works, 'cause I've spent my entire career in startups.
(12:52):
And, um- Right.
but there was- It's such a, a contrast, right?
It is.
It really, really is.
Just the mindset and the skills that you need to survive in that environment versus in startups.
Um, and the thing that I really learned was that I didn't like it.
I was an awful employee, um- Okay.
(13:12):
of a, of a large organization because I was sitting there going, "Okay, you guys are wasting so much time and so much money and so much effort when we could automate this and get this done in 2 days."
And I did actually do a lot of that.
Uh, um, my manager there, um, was very, very supportive and when I came to him and said, "Look, you know, here's this process that's taking 2 weeks of me literally walking into people's office and saying, 'Please, for the love of God, sign this.'" You know, and, "Hey, so have you signed this yet?"
(13:50):
You know.
.000000000116415And I'm like, "I could s- take 2 days and automate this process and then I don't have to go and harass grown men to do their homework."
And, um, you know, and so he's like, "Yeah, sure.
Fine.
Take 2 days, do what you want."
And I did.
And I implemented this across the, um, IT department.
(14:11):
Um, and then w- was starting to push it into the larger procurement, um, department when I left that position, um, because I had, um, this other startup here in Chicago had reached out to me and, um, they were looking for a fractional depart- uh, director of technology and I'm like, "Sure, I'll talk to you.
(14:34):
Why not?"
And so, you know, I talked to them and I'm like, in the first 20 minutes of the conversation I had a m- list of 20 things that I could do to improve their business. 180 00:14:46,598.9999999998836 --> 00:14:46,879 You know?
And I'm like, yeah, this love, when that happens.
.0000000001164Yeah, exactly. 183 00:14:50,699.0000000001164 --> 00:14:53,519 And I'm like, "Okay, this sounds like a fun challenge."
And so I left CTA and went to that, um, company on a f- on a fractional basis, um, and realized that, um, yeah, I, my home is in the startup world and, um, one of the reasons I love startups is that there isn't that entrenched bureaucracy.
(15:16):
That no matter who you are, if you've got a good idea, you're only one or 2 steps away from the guy who makes the decisions.
And so, you know, you can really make an impact and you can make things happen.
Um, and so I spent about 8 months there, um, with that client and when, I took them from 2 guys as their entire tech department, um, to a team of 8 full-time developers.
(15:43):
And really- That's a nice growth.
Yeah.
.9999999998836Yeah. 191 00:15:46,858.9999999998836 --> 00:16:02,979 Um, and it was really, really nice because I was able to, um, like implement that transition from, um, like a couple of cowboys who were-
yeah, literally these, there were 2 guys who, and nobody had a clue what they were doing.And, you know, I mean, the stories I could tell you, but anyway.
(16:14):
And I'm not gonna mention their name because, or the name of the company because, um, they really, I mean, they were wonderful guys, I, you know, really good friends with, with them to this day even though I'm not working with them anymore.
Um, but it was an absolute dumpster fire.
.0000000001164And, um, you know. 196 00:16:33,583.0000000001164 --> 00:16:56,144 And, you know, I'm really proud of the fact that when I left, there were really solid systems in place, um, everybody knew what was going on, who was doing what, and, you know, in the, what, 2 months, th- where I was actually tracking productivity data, we went f- we increased productivity by 150%. 197 00:16:56,834.0000000001164 --> 00:16:57,742.9999999998836 I mean, that's- Right. 198 00:16:57,742.9999999998836 --> 00:16:58,623 huge.
(16:58):
Right?
In 2, in 2 months, that's quite a lot.
In 2 months.
Yes.
Yeah.
.9999999998836Which on one hand I would love to say it's because I'm brilliant. 205 00:17:05,302.9999999998836 --> 00:17:10,663 On the other hand, it also shows you how much growth was, you know, right there, there was so much low-hanging fruit.
Yeah.
.0000000001164Um, so that was, that was really, really fun. 208 00:17:13,843.0000000001164 --> 00:17:20,723 And, um, so this January, um, got the phone call that you always get when you work with
(17:20):
yeah, not always, but, you know, you kinda always have that expectation in the back of your head when you work with a startup. 210 00:17:26,43.000000000116415 --> 00:17:30,543.0000000002328 I got a phone call from the CEO and he said basically, "Look, revenues weren't where we expected them to be. 211 00:17:30,543.0000000002328 --> 00:17:31,824 We just can't afford to keep you on."
"Okay."
You know, that's, that's how it is.
And, and- It's part of the risk.
Y- yeah.
And that's part of the risk that you run with startups.
(17:40):
Um, although one thing that I've, I've learned over the years, because, um, you know, like I said, my husband and I are both in IT.
He's the exact opposite of me.
He is like Mr.
Corporate.
.9999999997672You know, he wants to go to work at 8:30, be done at 4:00, and that's it.
You know, collect, you know, do his job, collect his paycheck, he's done.
(18:04):
Um, and yet over the years, what I've noticed and what I've understood is that having that corporate job, we all kind of learned through osmosis that, well, you know, you want a good, stable corporate job.
And that's, that's a myth.
It's not true.
.0000000002328You know, look at what's happening in the government right now, for example.
(18:26):
I mean, my mother was a government employee.
She worked for the Forest Service for 20 years. 229 00:18:32,842.9999999997672 --> 00:18:39,952 And, you know, at that time, w- you know, if you got hired by the government, you had a job for life.
You know, I mean, you had to really screw up to get let go from the gov- from a government job.
.99999999976717And, you know, and now we're seeing that, no, that s- that job security is a myth, um, you know. 232 00:18:54,342.99999999976717 --> 00:19:08,723 And so to me, the way I see startups is, and especially fractional leadership, is that I'm act- I actually have a more stable job than my husband does because, um- Interesting.
(19:08):
.9999999997672if, well, if, m- let's say my biggest client goes under tomorrow.
I have 4 more. 235 00:19:17,23.00000000023283 --> 00:19:18,288 You know, I'm still gonna pay the bills.
I might have to, you know, ramp up a little bit, um, you know, go and try and, like, do some more outreach and pull in a couple more clients.
(19:29):
.9999999997672But I'm never gonna have that pit of the stomach, "Oh god, what am I gonna do now?" 238 00:19:36,418.00000000023283 --> 00:19:36,483 Right.
Whereas if you get laid off from a corporate job, there's your entire income gone.
You know?
And so that's kind of my story.
Um, you know, once, when they, when I got that phone call, um, you know, I kinda knew that I had done what I needed to do at that company, so I was already starting to think about, "Okay, what's my next step?"
(19:58):
And, um, so I, I kind of relaunched Disentangled Tech with this renewed emphasis on fractional leadership.
And, um, one of the big changes that I've made in the business is previously I really loved working with early stage startups, and I still do.
(20:18):
I mean, I am super passionate about taking that idea, taking it from idea stage to, you know, launch.
Yeah.
But, I've also realized that there's a tiered, um, reality here where, uh, I can't afford to work one-on-one with those founders, because they can't afford to work with me.
And so, I'm now I'm working with growth stage startups and implementing those systems that take them out of chaos, um, so they can grow sustainably.
(20:49):
Um, and then I'm actually working on a couple of other projects that are designed to help those early stage startups get to the point where they can work one-on-one with me and, and afford that fractional leadership.
And here we are.
And that brings us to today.
And here we are.
Um, so that's, uh, that's quite a story.
(21:10):
Yeah.
Um, and, you know, I, I, I love how your, you know, your, your career trajectory has been, you know, one thing and then another.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, and how it kind of converges together.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but, you know, I'm kind of wondering, um, where
(21:33):
You know, so, so really going back to, to the beginning of your story- Yeah.
Uh, you talked about, having dual degrees and- Yeah.
and how it's like, to me, it seems almost, um, opposites in a way.
Mm-hmm.
Because, um, it's, you know, uh, it's when you typically think of, you know, someone in engineering, a CTO, you typically think of someone who's like very, very straightforward thinker, very, very technical, very orient, uh, oriented towards like processes and, and- Yes.
(22:10):
it's someone that is not by default a very creative person.
Um, and you come from, you know, from creative writing, um, and you're an artist, um, and like, I'm wondering how does, how does that come by?
I love, I love that it combines- How does
Exactly.
(22:32):
Yeah.
Um, because I, I can say for myself, you know, I'm on marketing and in marketing it's actually considered an advantage if you're both.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
you be, you know, the creative guy that throws up, you know, the, the, the, the, the fun out of the box, whimsical, uh, uh- Yes.
Yes.
creative bri- briefs.
But then you can also open an Excel sheet and pivot table the results and analyze the campaign's performance.
(22:58):
Right.
Then that's a really like strong suit of, of, you know- Mm-hmm.
.0000000002328combined skills. 280 00:23:04,639.0000000002328 --> 00:23:04,839 Yeah.
But I'm won- wondering, you know, in, in, in the development What in the world is going on in my brain?
That's one way to say it, yes.
So,
Yeah.
So, um, and y- there's like so many ways I could go with this.
(23:20):
Um, so I guess I've always been creative, like from my earliest, earliest memories.
I was writing stories, I was drawing, I was
You know, I always wanted to, you know, make something.
Um, that was how I entertained myself.
Um, and that's still true today.
(23:41):
Um, actually, if you, the, when you walk into my house, you walk into my studio.
Um, I actually have claimed kind of that front room as that's my studio space, and, um, and I love that.
So when I was, I don't know, like 16, junior in high school, um, deciding where, what I was gonna major in, where I was gonna go to school, blah, blah, blah, I was talking to my mother one day, and, um, you know, I was telling her, "Look, I think I really wanna major in creative writing."
(24:13):
I, you know, and she said, "You know what?
That's great.
You're very talented, you know, but maybe major in something you can support yourself in."
I was like, "Okay, great."
You know, and it was like at that time, my snotty little teenage brain was like, "Mm, you know, you can't tell me not to be an artist."
(24:41):
Um, but at the same time, it was like I had seen her struggles.
Um, my mother was a poet, and she wrote one book of self-published poetry that I have, uh, I have a copy on my shelf, and it is
I have 2.
I have one on my shelf and I have one in my fire safe because I think, you know, it's one of those things where if my house burned down, it would break my heart to lose it.
(25:06):
And so- Right.
.0000000002328it's right there with my kids' birth certificates. 305 00:25:09,639.0000000002328 --> 00:25:25,918.9999999997672 Um, but she didn't have the opportunity to explore that because, um, at the time, we lived in a very rural community up in northern California, um, she had 6 kids in 10 years, and then 11 years old, 11 years later I came along. 306 00:25:25,918.9999999997672 --> 00:25:28,299 So she was very much
(25:28):
Oh.
Yeah.
.00000000023283I was, yeah. 310 00:25:30,139.00000000023283 --> 00:25:38,339 And so, you know, she was very much a, um, traditional housewife for most of her adult life.
And then, um, when I was very young, she took this job with the Forest Service.
Um, she had actually gotten a degree in accounting when she was young, and which honestly I think that would destroy my soul.
(25:50):
But anyway, um- I can relate.
Yeah.
And so, you know, I, the woman that I remember as my mother, um, was a working woman, and she, you know-
did all of these things because she needed to have that independence, and that's what she wanted for me, was to not have my life circumstances depend on, you know, the whims of anyone else.
(26:16):
And I respect that for her, from her.
And so I did, I majored in computer science.
Um, freshman year of college, met this guy , um, 4 kids and a mortgage later, here we are.
But anyway, um, that's a whole different story.
And, um, so long story short, I was always that smart kid, you know?
(26:38):
.00000000023283I was always the kid that got the good grades, did, you know, was in, you know, led every club I, I joined, you know, all of this stuff. 323 00:26:47,235.00000000023283 --> 00:26:54,831.9999999997672 And then freshman year of college, I failed, like really failed for the first time in my life.
Um, I literally failed out of
Now the fact that I- Wow.
(27:00):
.00000000023283you know, had met my first serious boyfriend, and he was a lot more interesting than my classes, you know, I mean, may have had something to do with it. 327 00:27:08,235.00000000023283 --> 00:27:08,635 Um
Probably.
Turns out, yeah, turns out that if you wanna do well in school, um, going to classes is a really good place to start.
Um-
doing your homework, things like that.
Anyway, so, um, in order to be readmitted, I had to write this letter to the admissions office explaining what I was gonna do differently and how I was going to be successful.
(27:30):
And, uh, so I spent that summer really, really doing a lot of soul searching.
And I thought, "Okay," um, and the conclusion I came to was, "Okay, I'm gonna double major."
I'm gonna keep computer science, because I'd always been good at tech.
I'd always been, you know
For me, programming was a creative act.
It was another expression of creativity, because again, you're taking an idea and you're making it real.
(27:54):
A reality.
You're making it into something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so I said, "Okay, I'm gonna double major."
Because, and my thought process was, "Okay, if I'm interested in half my classes, I'll go to all of them, even the boring ones."
And, um- Okay.
it worked.
I actually graduated, uh, cum laude with honors, and, um, had a 4.0 my last year.
(28:18):
Uh, so I, you know, I grew up a lot and I learned a lot.
.00000000023283And, um, yeah, so that's kind of how I combined the 2, but also kind of used the creativity to support the, the tech. 350 00:28:33,235.00000000023283 --> 00:28:50,63.99999999976717 And, you know, really what I learned was that, um, you know, like I said, when you're writing code, it, it's, um, I kind of, I, I, see, it's, it's a different form of poetry, because it's an imperfect way of describing an idea.
(28:50):
Um, and so, you know, and you're kind of starting from a blank page, and then, you know, you work on it, and then there's a thing that, you know, you can't hold in your hand, but you can see it on your screen and it does things.
And so that was always really exciting for me.
Um, and then of course, um, you know, kind of going into where I am now, where I'm not doing as much development.
(29:15):
Um, I'm more pulling in existing tools and integrating them, and, um, but it's still creative because it's problem solving.
And really that's all creativity is, it's problem solving, so
Exactly.
Yeah.
Wondering, um, I'm gonna go a bit off script here for a second, but I'm wondering how, you know, I, I, I, I totally relate with, you know, how coding is, is creative work in essence.
(29:42):
Mm-hmm.
.00000000023283And, you you're taking an idea and you're materializing it into something. 361 00:29:48,195.00000000023283 --> 00:29:48,595 Uh- Yeah.
maybe not physical, but it's still something.
Yeah.
Um, wondering what's your take on vibe coding and all of the new AI- Oh.
platforms that help you, you know- Mm-hmm.
just write a prompt and get something, um, off the air, um- Yes.
(30:07):
.0000000002328Yeah. 368 00:30:07,715.0000000002328 --> 00:30:08,975 What's your take on that?
On, and from, from a creativity perspective?
Sure.
.0000000002328So, um, as far as like coding goes, um, there are some really, really nice, um, AI code assistants that I think are just absolutely brilliant. 372 00:30:25,715.0000000002328 --> 00:30:26,619 I love them.
Because, um, you know, for example, um, GitHub's Copilot.
(30:31):
Um, there's a lot of, of those tools out there.
Because, really the creative act is not in knowing syntax, right?
Um, the creative act is in imagining a result and then working backwards to figure out how to implement it.
Um, and so I am a huge proponent of letting the computer do as much work as I can make it do so that I don't have to do the boring stuff.
(31:03):
I get bored really easily and I think that's true of a lot of creatives.
Um, I would much rather spend my time and energy coming up with crazy new ideas and then let somebody else, like the computer, do all the busy work.
Um, and so, you know, as far as that goes, I'm, I'm all for it, um, with the caveat that you can't trust it completely.
(31:31):
You have to check its work.
Um, I have had plenty of
I mean, I use AI in a lot of different ways in my business.
Um, but I tend to use it as a crappy first draft.
Um
Okay.
Yeah, that wa- that was always the, the, um, uh, the thing that we did in my writing classes was, um, you know, just get a crappy first draft done because you can't edit something that's not on paper.
(32:02):
Once it's on paper, you can work with it.
And so that's how I use AI.
Um, or for example, um, I was working on an integration the other day and it was in Python.
Well, I, I've not used Python.
.0000000002328Is it that 393 00:32:19,639.0000000002328 --> 00:32:26,640 You know, I can read it because it's very, very similar to the 15 other languages that I've used over the years.
(32:27):
But I would spend 3 hours fighting with the code because I got the syntax wrong or, you know, there's this little tiny tweaks that- Yeah.
Python does that PHP doesn't.
And it would just be frustrating and tedious and annoying. 397 00:32:43,639.0000000002328 --> 00:32:52,304 Um, so what I did was I wrote pseudo code and said, uh, fed it to the AI and said, "Here, spit this out in Python."
(32:53):
So that's te- that tends to be how I use it.
Um, and then of course, I, you know, went through and double checked that yes, this actually does what I want it to do and it's not doing anything crazy.
Yup.
Um, so for that, uh, especially in coding, I really don't have a problem with it, um, as long as you're using it, you know, reasonably.
(33:14):
I, I k- I tend to think of it as my like super junior developer.
Um, um- Okay.
That's an interesting perspective.
Yeah, yeah.
And like when- very eager junior developer.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Um, and there are of course ethical considerations in terms of like, um, you know, is it plagiarizing other people's work and things like that.
(33:43):
.00000000023283Um, which I think is really more important in the pure creative work, in writing, in art, in things like that. 410 00:33:50,139.00000000023283 --> 00:33:54,000 Um, because with code it's like, it's just code.
The, the work that you've put in is in your design, in your algorithm, in your imple- not necessarily in your implementation and that's where the AI is coming in,
(34:06):
I agree.
Um, and kind of seguing, seguing from that, um, do you feel a difference working with founders who are technical versus founders who are non-technical?
.9999999997672Definitely. 415 00:34:22,519.0000000002328 --> 00:34:22,928 Oh, yeah.
.99999999976717Um, and you know, there are challenges in both places.
(34:29):
.00000000023283When I'm working with a non-technical founder, um, it's easier in some ways because they will tell me, "Okay, these are my pain points, these are my problems, this is what I'm struggling with."
.0000000002328Um, I had a conversation with a pote- a potential client yesterday actually who basically got on the phone and said, "Look, I am spending 30 hours on this manual process. 419 00:34:55,619.0000000002328 --> 00:34:56,759 Is there anything I can do?"
(34:56):
And I'm like, "Oh, yeah.
We just have to put this and this and this together and you're fine.
It'll take, you know, it'll be automated and we'll send you a dashboard every 2 days."
And he just looked at me like, "Really?"
"Oh, that'd be great."
Yeah.
You know?
And it's like I feel like I need a little wizard hat.
Yeah.
Because, you know, it's like e- e- because to a non-technical founder or, or person it's, you know, what I do is magic.
(35:23):
Um, and that's, that's always fun and, and it's great because, um, we can just cut through all of the business, uh, the red tape and be like, "Yeah, I can solve your problem.
I'll send you a quote."
And it's easy.
When I'm working with, um, technical people though, um, on one hand they tend to have their own opinions, which we all do, um, and their own favorite ecosystems and tools and, you know, "Well, that's great but I want it over here," and, and things like that.
(35:57):
And so it's a little more i- i- you know, you kind of have to make a few more compromises because I don't just get to put my favorite tools in place.
Um, I have to, you know, take their preferences in p- into consideration.
But at the same time-
the conversation tends to go higher faster because they already ha- we're starting here instead of starting here.
(36:19):
Um, and so, you know, I can go in and they're gonna tell me, "Okay," you know, "Look, I know that, that"
You know, for the, this conversation I had yesterday, they can tell me, "Look, you know, um, I know there's a way to automate this data analysis stuff.
(36:42):
Um, should we use Tableau, Splunk, or BI?"
.99999999953434And I can then sit there and go, "Okay, well, here's what BI is good for. 442 00:36:51,288.99999999953434 --> 00:36:56,720.0000000004657 Splunk is great for unstructured data, and you're working with Excel spreadsheets, so we, we probably oughta go with Tableau."
And so it's like, it's a different level of conversation. 444 00:37:00,788.9999999995343 --> 00:37:08,560 Um, and a lot of times we will end up riffing off each other, um, especially if we get into, like, the, the code.
(37:09):
And they'll be like, "Well, but what if we built it this way?
And what if we did this?"
And then it's like, you know, it's, it's sort of a creative brainstorming, so that's always fun.
Um
Mm.
so let's, let's segue that into my, uh, next question, uh- Okay.
which is, um, what's your one fracked up moment?
(37:32):
Oh, boy.
Um, in your career?
Just one?
Uh, just
Only one?
1.
There have been many.
There have been many.
Um
Like in any good career.
Uh, but try to- Of course.
Try to think of, of one where you're like- Oh my gosh.
"Okay."
Um, where I just royally fracked up, huh?
(37:53):
And, uh, and, and- Yeah.
.99999999953434how you tidied up after it, yes. 468 00:37:58,288.99999999953434 --> 00:38:00,129 Um, yes.
Actually, um, so this was actually very, very early on.
Um, I was actually still in college at the time.
.99999999953434I was the system admin for the Center for Asynchronous Learning at my university. 472 00:38:15,288.99999999953434 --> 00:38:15,309 Okay.
(38:15):
Which back in the '90s meant distance learning.
Okay.
.99999999953434Um, so we were, um, I was basically handed a lab and said, um, you know, "Hey, we wanna do distance learning with"
.99999999953434Uh, so I went to Bradley in Peoria, here in Illinois, and they wanted to do a semester-long history course with the University of Moscow. 477 00:38:43,970.0000000004657 --> 00:38:44,809 Okay.
(38:44):
And this was in, like, '97, '98, something like that.
So I was like, "Uh, okay."
And they basically handed me, they said, "Here, figure it out and make it happen." 481 00:38:58,788.9999999995343 --> 00:38:59,549 can do that.
Sure."
And so, um, you know, I'm sitting there this one afternoon on the server.
(39:05):
And, uh, I don't even remember what I was working on, um, trying to fix something.
And, uh, it was getting late.
Some friends came by, like, "Um, dude, if you wanna get dinner, we better go 'cause the cafeteria's getting closed."
.00000000046566And so, um, and if you have tech people listening, they're gonna, um, this is gonna make their eyes bleed. 488 00:39:30,229.00000000046566 --> 00:39:37,520 But I yeah, I moved the user directory from one, um, hard drive to another.
(39:38):
So I just did- Okay.
you know, move /usr to wherever it was. 491 00:39:43,229.00000000046566 --> 00:39:44,976 And then I logged off.
'Cause of course you log off the server when you leave the, the lab.
And came back after dinner and went to log back on and I had blue screened the server.
(40:01):
Because you can't log in because now it's not where
Because the user directory wasn't there anymore.
Yeah.
And I'm sitting here going, "Oh, crap.
Oh, crap.
Oh, crap."
"What am I gonna do?"
.0000000004657You know, because I can't even log into the damn thing to fix it. 502 00:40:16,729.0000000004657 --> 00:40:22,448 And so I ended up calling, um, 2 or 3 friends that, um
(40:23):
And we spent probably, I don't know, 7 or 8 hours, I don't even remember what time it was when we left.
Um, but we had to reinstall the server from floppies to get it.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah.
And thank God I had just taken a backup like the day before or something, on floppies.
So it was like, you know, we fig-, we figured it out but I was in
(40:46):
That was probably the worst panic of my career, was that moment when it was like I
And I knew like the minute I tried to log in and like it didn't even bring up a login screen.
And I'm like, "Oh, crap.
I know what I did.
How do I fix this?"
You know.
Yeah.
And, um
But it's great that the first, you know, that first thought was, "I know what I did."
(41:10):
It's not like- Yes.
"Oh no, what's going on?"
It's like- Right.
I
You're, you're already starting at a much better place.
You're like- Right.
"I know-" Yeah.
where I fracked up."
Oh, yeah.
Now I gotta
(46:05):
what I love about it is that it kind of keeps everything about whatever you're doing all kind of in one place, and I love ecosystems.
I love it when everything's kind of just all in one place.
Um, and so I, I literally run my household on ClickUp-
um, you know.
Uh- This, this episode is not-
(46:27):
yet sponsored by ClickUp-
but maybe it will be.
Right, right.
No, um, and I've used
.99999999953434And there are other tools, um, that do a s- very similar thing.
It's really about, like, um, what interface is intuitive to you.
Um, I mean, I could give you a list of 7 others that do exactly the same thing in a very similar way.
(46:48):
Um, that's just the one that I like the interface of.
Okay.
Um, what's the definition of a dream client for you, and what's
And, and in contrast, what's a nightmare
Oh, boy.
Um, for me, a dream client is somebody who is you know, very
(47:13):
A founder who is very driven, who is very mission-driven, who has an impact that they wanna make, and that, um, really lets me kind of come in and do what I'm really, really good at and who is a part- who really wants to partner with me to, um, so that I can then build their tech and their infrastructure and their systems so that they can go out on stage and shine.
(47:40):
Um, I'm really good at the backside, the backend, you know.
Um, nightmare client is a non-technical client who thinks they know tech because-
um, yeah.
Because, or, uh, th- they tend to be really micro-managing.
(48:01):
They tend to question every decision I make, um, and the type of client who instead of as really focused on their goals and what they wanna do is, you know, like
I mean, I've got a huge, um, patience for ADD people 'cause I'm ADD too, but when you are jumping from goal, to goal, to goal, to goal, it's like, "Dude, I'm gonna get whiplash."
(48:31):
.99999999953434"Chill out." 554 00:48:32,462.99999999953434 --> 00:48:36,912 You know, "Let's get one thing done before you do, before you decide you wanna pivot to 7 others."
Okay.
I think that's a great definition of a nightmare client for me as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Um- And I've done
.9999999995343I've worked with both, so- We, we all have, yes. 560 00:48:49,962.9999999995343 --> 00:48:51,203 We all have, yeah.
Yes.
(48:52):
Um, where do you see the future of fractional?
Um, I really see fractional leadership growing, um, especially as our economy is changing so quickly.
Um, I think that it's a huge opportunity for, um, leaders who are suddenly looking at their 20-year car- corporate career and going, "Uh, okay, that's gone now," um, but who still have so much, uh, to teach and so much to give.
(49:26):
Um, and, you know, like I said earlier, it's
.9999999995343I think it's a great way to, um, diversify your, your career.
Um, and I also think it's wonderful f- because, um, you know, we're seeing, uh, so many people going, "You know what? 568 00:49:45,953.9999999995343 --> 00:49:47,903.0000000004657 I've been looking for a job" 569 00:49:47,903.0000000004657 --> 00:49:52,203 I've seen people looking for a job for 2 years, and- Yeah, that's hard.
(49:52):
part of me, eh, that's, ah, part of me is going, "How in the world are you surviving without a job for 2 years?"
You know?
I don't get it.
Um, yeah, I, I
It's like, "Okay, what are, what, what am I missing here?"
Um, you know, and for me, my
And again, I'm coming from the background I do.
My gut instinct is, "Okay, at some point, you s- you look at the writing on the wall and going, "Okay.
(50:18):
This isn't in the cards right now, so I'm going to go and start my business.
I'm gonna go do something that I am really, really good at and get 3 or 4 clients."
And so, in
for those people, I think that fractional leadership is an absolute godsend, because all of a sudden you get the benefit of, you know, people who've got, you know, millions and millions of dollars to do their startup and can hire, you know, a whole C-suite.
(50:49):
You get that same benefit, but at a much different economic level.
And so I see it as really leveling that playing field, and that's something I'm, I'm really excited about.
Same here.
Um
Yeah.
So, so that leads me to my, uh, last question for today.
Um, if you could give one piece of advice to, uh, someone, not necessarily a CTO- Mm-hmm.
(51:16):
um, who's, you know, considering, "Should I go fractional?"
Sure.
Um, what would that advice be?
All right.
So, um, my advice would be to really take some time and, you know, maybe a couple of days where you literally just close yourself in a room and figure out what is, like the one core thing that you are really, really good at, that you can walk into a business and make an impact, like day one.
(51:55):
Um, because I've seen a lot, and I've coached a lot of, um, people who are considering leaving corporate to do freelancing or consulting or now fractional work, and, um, you know, they're like, "Well, this is what I did for my corporate job, so I could just kinda do that, right?"
It's like, no.
No, no, no, no, no.
(52:17):
You know?
It's, it's not a one-to-one.
You have to really, um, narrow down, what is the impact that you make?
What do you do?
What is your work?
And then, you know, like you said, who are the people that you wanna do that work for?
Um, and, you know, in marketing, I know, I'm not telling you anything you don't know.
(52:40):
.99999999953434You know, you've gotta find your, your people, your niche. 605 00:52:43,38.99999999953434 --> 00:52:58,839 Um, I had a coach who was, um, early in my, uh, career, who made it really, really clear, because she told me, "Okay, look," um, because I was giving her this laundry list of stuff that I can do, because there's
I mean, I could, I could rattle off 10 different things that I can do right now, um, and she's like, "No, no, no, no, no.
(53:07):
That's too much.
People's eyes are gonna glaze over," you know?
Um, and I'm like, "Well, I can do this for anybody," you know?
And she's like, "No, no, no, because if I am, you know, if I meet you at a networking event and you tell me I can do programming or system admin or systems integration or project management or creative writing or tech writing or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah for anybody, who comes to mind?"
(53:37):
Your mind is blank.
You're, you're
But if I tell you- Right.
that I help growth stage founders create calm out of the chaos of their disjointed systems, now you have just thought of 3 different people who need to talk to me. 615 00:53:58,38.99999999953434 --> 00:54:00,979 my- That's a great, uh, great one-liner.
(54:00):
Uh, are you- Yeah.
sure you're not also doing marketing?
I'm not.
You know, and that's the other thing is that you have to really wrap your head around and accept the fact that once you own a business, and as a fractional you own a business, um, you're in marketing.
Amen.
You're in marketing and sales.
Welcome to it, honey.
(54:21):
You know?
Um, and I had a hard time with that for a long
in and in operations and in project management and multiple projects.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
I, you know, I swear, one of these days I'm gonna get a hat rack in my office here.
And I'm just gonna have, you know, I'm, I'm just gonna label it, you know?
All these different hats.
No.
Yes.
I, um, yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Now I am a salesperson and
(54:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, you have to figure that stuff out, um, because if you think that you're going to be able to just kind of walk in as you did with the same mindset that you did as an employee, you're never gonna get anywhere.
(55:04):
think that's a- Yeah.
great piece of advice.
Um, and I think- Mm-hmm.
that's a, a, a great place to wrap up this episode as well.
Um, so thank you very, very much, Tricia.
It's been a pleasure having you here today.
Absolutely.
Um, and for those, uh, who would love to keep in touch, um, where can they find you?
(55:27):
Yeah.
So, um, my website is disentangletech.com.
And, um, there's a little link- And if you're a founder that needs help- Yes.
disentangling their tape, their tech.
Yes.
Um, there is a little link right there on the front page to book a call with me.
Um, I, you know, one of the best parts of my day is when I get to talk to founders.
(55:48):
Um, and I actually have a program that I am beta testing right now.
.00000000046566So, um, where, you know, instead of coming in for like a 6month, 8month engagement to kind of re- overhaul everything, um 658 00:56:05,211.00000000046566 --> 00:56:08,671 what I've been hearing from a lot of my potential clients is that, "Look.
(56:08):
I'm not ready for that."
And so- Yeah.
um, I've got this new program, um, called Get Your Tech Together and I will let your imagination go.
Um-
.00000000046566where we s- we sit down for a 90-minute tech coaching session and really get to, and really unravel where all of the fires in your business are. 664 00:56:32,211.00000000046566 --> 00:56:40,691 And then, um, my team puts together a really, really comprehensive step-by-step roadmap with recommendations for, "Okay.
(56:40):
Here are, you know, the things that you need to do this week.
And then here are the things that maybe you can do next month, and then in 6 months," um, to start to
And it's literally the same roadmap that I would follow if I was walking into your business as a fractional.
Um, and so, you know, you get all my secrets.
And then, you know, we meet again, um, to kind of go over it and talk f- talk it through and make sure that, you know, if you got any questions, if, you know, y- you look at it and go, "Okay.
(57:09):
Well, I can't do this because of reasons," "Okay.
Well, let's figure out, you know, let's revise it on the fly and figure out what h- to how to make it work for you."
So, that's kind of a, a program that I am soft launching, kind of beta.
Um, I sent it out to a handful of my, um, contacts yesterday, so you're the first to hear it publicly.
(57:33):
Um, and so if any of your listeners- Amazing.
are interested in that, um, I would be happy to get on a call and, um, and give them the link to the, the page on my website.
It's, it's not linked anywhere.
It's actually a hidden page on my website because I haven't announced it publicly.
Um, and go from there.
(57:55):
Awesome.
So, um, if that, um, sounds like something that would be, um, interesting or relevant to any of our, uh, viewers or listeners, go to DisentangledTech- Mm-hmm.
.com, um, and- Yeah.
book a call with Tricia.
Yeah.
Um, so that's it for us today.
Uh, and, um, thank you for, for, um, chiming in, for listening.
(58:18):
Uh, if you enjoyed, uh, this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, uh, share, like, follow, tweet, do all the things that, uh, uh, people do.
Um, and again, thank you very much, Tricia, uh, for joining us today and, um- I had a great time.
we'll
was great to talk to you.
All right.
Thank you so much.
Same here.
I'll talk to you soon.
(58:38):
Um, thank you.
All right.
Bye.
Bye.
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