September 18, 2025 • 56 mins
On this episode of Oh Frac!, host Adir Ron sits down with Kremena Yordanova—ex-adidas and ex-Reebok turned fractional CMO who “builds momentum by design.” Kremena walks us through her readiness quiz (a fast filter for fantasy vs. feasible), how she vets founders with “Why now? Why me?”, and why the “one hire to do it all” mindset derails growth. We dig into juggling five calendars across time zones, going from D2C roots to B2B relationships, and bridging the tired brand/performance divide. She shares a brutally honest frac’d-up moment (five social agencies later…), the tool she swears by (consumer insights), and clear signals of dream vs. nightmare clients. If you’re a founder considering a fractional leader—or an operator eyeing the leap—this episode is an unvarnished, highly practical guide.
Key Takeaways
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Readiness first: ask “Why now? Why me? Top 3 priorities? Success signals?”
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Fractionals sell outcomes, not hours—set deliverables and decision trees early.
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Don’t chase funnels; align brand + performance as one system.
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D2C lessons translate to B2B: longer cycles, same strategic logic.
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Push back on scope creep—high-leverage work > microtasks.
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PR isn’t optional; credibility fuels LLM/AI discovery and demand.
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Embed social capabilities when possible; agencies ≠ instant traction.
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Consumer insights tools beat assumptions, especially in new markets.
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Sweet spot she serves: ~$5–10M revenue, expansion/GTMs across regions.
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Dream client: clear North Star & openness to challenge; nightmare: shifting goals hourly.
Chapters 00:00 Cold open & who is Kremena 04:30 Time-zone chaos & five calendars 09:00 How the frac she got here 13:30 From D2C roots to B2B plays 18:00 Breaking silos: brand vs. performance 22:30 Saying no, scope, and prioritization 27:00 The “one hire to do it all” trap 31:30 Frac’d-up moment: five agencies later 36:00 Quickfire: networks, tools, client types 40:30 Future of fractional & starter advice
Kremena's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kremena-yordanova/
Adir’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adir-ron/
Keywords fractional CMO, fractional leadership, founder readiness, readiness quiz, D2C to B2B, go-to-market, scope creep, decision tree, brand vs performance, PR strategy, consumer insights, Europe startups, ABM, executive consulting, startup growth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
When someone reaches out to you and like, "Hey, Kremena, uh, we, we saw you on LinkedIn, we heard about you, we got a referral, we want to work with you," how do you kind of decide, "Are they a right client for me?
Are they ready?"
It really starts there, if they've done their homework to know the exact scope that they think they need you for.
And, um, that initial conversation of 45 minutes is, I ask them, "Why now?
(00:21):
Why me?"
They will give me their pitch.
What are their, uh, top 3 priorities and how will they know that they are successful?
That's how I normally ask them.
And if the how do they know that they are successful is that they will have, like, a million users on their app or w- whatever is the, the tangible thing that they want out of this collaboration, I'll be able to know.
And then the last piece of the conversation is literally with, like, "Okay, what are the questions that you have for me?"
(00:45):
Because that also tells me, and I'm, I'm extremely open book.
I would say like, "A, I've never done that, but it sounds like, uh, challenging enough for me to do," or, "I know how to do this."
And it's, it's really the level of, um, challenge and opportunity.
Today, I have with me Kremena Yordanova.
Kremena builds momentum by design.
She's an ex-Adidas and ex-Reebok, and now she's a fractional CMO, pairing enterprise-grade rigor with founder-focused clarity.
(01:09):
And starting with her readiness quiz that filters fantasy from feasible.
Today, Kremena's here with me to demystify what fractionals actually do, and why the one hire to do it all mentality is a trap.
Welcome to Oh, Frack, the podcast where top fractional leaders share their wins, struggles, and stories from the trenches, hosted by Adir Enbe.
(01:30):
Welcome to Oh, Frack, the podcast where we dive into the world of fractional leadership, the wins, the struggles, and everything in between.
I'm your host, Adir Enbe, fractional CMO.
And today, I have with me Kremena Yordanova.
Hi, Kremena.
Welcome.
Hi, everyone.
Thanks for having me, Adir.
.9999999999854Thank you for joining me today.
(01:51):
So, Kremena builds momentum by design.
She's an ex-Adidas and ex-Reebok, and now she's a fractional CMO, pairing enterprise-grade rigor with founder-focused clarity.
And stating, uh, starting, sorry, with her readiness quiz that filters fantasy from feasible.
Today, Kremena's here with me to demystify what fractionals actually do, and why the one hire to do it all mentality is a trap.
(02:21):
And we got some balloons.
Thank you for, uh, for joining, Kremena.
.0000000000291And, um, let's, let's kick it off with a little icebreaker question.
So in our, in our prep conversation, you joked about living on 5 calendars.
Um, and I can relate.
I think I have 6 at the moment.
What's the most ridiculous time zone mishap that you've had as a fractional juggling multiple calendars?
(02:46):
It's insane.
I just want to mention that I have deep compassion for everyone that thinks that having it all is easy.
As a highly organized in one case and highly disorganized in other cases person, the weirdest thing is I'm currently recording in UK.
And you would think that being a global, and I would have so many more misalignments between just Amsterdam and London than with any other geography.
(03:14):
So last week alone, I missed 3 opportunities to be on time for my meetings.
And because you are just, like, not in the, the realm of, "Oh my God, it's only one hour.
Is it before?
Is it ahead?
Is it this?
Is it that?"
And it happens to me way more often than I would like to admit.
But it's just, it's just such a
(03:35):
You also get the chance to filter who, who genuinely understand that I have all the alarms, I have all the reminders.
It's just that when I see the clock, I'm like, "Yeah, sure, I have one more hour."
"No, you don't.
You have to be on this call right now."
Yeah.
So the weirdest one was like this mere one-hour difference can really tip me into starting to believe that it's hard to maintain those 5 calendars.
(04:00):
When in reality, with the ones that are maybe in Australia, I have a client in Australia and I have a client in LA, I kind of know when, when I need to be on those calls.
Like it's, it's, it's I'm there on time.
The one hour, it gets me always.
I 100% agree with you.
Uh, I think we, we talked about it in our prep call that, uh, I have, um, a client based in, in Bulgaria, in Sofia, and that's, uh, an hour ahead of the, of us in the Netherlands.
(04:28):
And it always gets confusing as well.
Yeah, and- So I feel you.
understanding of how to link all your calendars, and, uh, there is a big research done that you should keep things separate, so then you give a, um, clear space and time to work on one project and clear space and time to work on another project works really well.
(04:49):
But what happens when they merge so seemingly?
What happens when, for instance, right now, I'm up for a one-month residency?
I can't postpone everything for a month.
You definitely need to find a way to work, uh, with your calendars.
And where is like the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays separating from the other clients' work?
(05:09):
It's just very fascinating how we get to do it all, but we need to have parameters that works for us.
And it's deeply personal.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Okay, so I think that's a great segue to kind of take a few steps back and maybe hear a bit about your fractional journey.
So, Kremena, how the frack did you get here?
(05:31):
I- I am questioning myself every day this question.
Like, "How the frack did I get here?"
And it's a very good day, I would say, like, it was by design.
I really always wanted to do this way.
Actually, it was not so much by design, but by luck.
I was already helping couple of, um, I wouldn't call them clients, but good friends of mine with some topics on marketing while I was still employed with, with, uh, my long time, uh, collaborator, which I did as a Reebok, I stayed 17 years.
(05:59):
But always on the side, I would be very interested in helping people, helping people with some of their marketing strategies.
AndOne thing led to another when I knew it's time for me to branch out and do my own thing.
I already had client portfolio without knowing they were client portfolio.
Interesting.
.00000000005821So it was friends of mine that actually asked me, "What you gonna do now?"
(06:22):
I first of all had to say, "I need to take a break and then redefine what I wanna do."
Because for so long, I have so many interests that were put on the like, "Oh, yeah, one day I'll finish the book.
One day I'll do this, one day I'll do that."
You know those semi-unfinished businesses that you started and you never ended?
And I was like, "Finally I'll get the chance to do that."
(06:43):
But then again, you have the skills that people tend to like to interact with.
And friends of mine were asking, "Hey, would you mind taking on board this and that project?
But I can only, quote-unquote, 'afford you for one day of the week.'" Yeah.
And I was like, "Sure, I mean, you know, I'm free right now.
You know, I need to pay my bills, quite frankly."
And, uh
(07:04):
Yeah.
And they were like, "Great.
This means you'll be my fractional."
Quite honestly, I didn't even know what that word meant 2 years ago.
And I was like, "Okay.
I guess that's how we do it."
I did a little bit of research and it's a terminology that in the States and Canada is used quite often, where in the startup and scale-up world- Yeah.
(07:25):
where you literally don't maybe need a full-time employee, but it's different from part-time.
And that's why I love the, the fractional piece, because you get me and my knowledge and my 20 years of experience on the fraction of the both price and timing, because you hire me for deliverable.
And, um, this was very important for me to understand, because from long-term employee to run your own calendar even, because that's next to the time you sell your expertise, it just requires a different set of skills.
(08:00):
You might be a great marketeer, but if you're not able to know how to market yourself, it's a very different obviously, uh, um, space you're operating.
Yeah.
So it happened by a, by circumstances and people really wanting to work with me, and framing it in a way that it's, "Would you work on Monday?
(08:20):
I can only afford you on Monday."
And it maybe started as a frugal kind of, uh, way to do business, but it developed into actually providing so much more value for the, the team at the time.
.00000000005821And, uh, yeah, it wasn't very by design. 114 00:08:36,99.00000000005821 --> 00:08:52,016 It was by slash luck, slash, oh my God, um, I really enjoy being involved with multiple businesses and in multiple industries, because I felt in the past that I stayed mono-focused on one brand or 2 brands at the time.
(08:52):
17 years is a long time.
It's a long time.
Let's be honest.
Let's be honest.
Nowadays, no one does a career like that.
So I would- Yeah.
say that it was a beautiful eye-opener to say, "Let me open up my network and see, who do I know?"
And it turns out everyone I knew was either doing yoga, practicing yoga, 'cause I'm also a yoga teacher, or- Oh, interesting.
(09:15):
is
Yeah.
Or is in the business of selling shoes.
And I got to question myself, "Why is that?"
I mean, obviously, we stick to the bubbles we create.
And I find that it's so much more rewarding for me now to get educated on different industries, and translate what I've learned in G2C and in sports good industry to others.
(09:39):
Because there is this multidisciplinary, um, knowledge that we don't spend too much attention to pass.
But yeah, to answer your question, it was a friend of mine literally said, "Hey, I can only give you one day, but I have a, a quite important project.
Like, you definitely need to help me with this."
(10:00):
And that's how it started.
And one thing led to another by just mentioning, "This is what I do now.
This is how I operate.
This is what a pilot with me looks like."
It does require a lot of you to be honest about your own skills.
Yeah.
And being transparent about, "I don't help you with this, this, and that, but I do help you with this, this, and that."
(10:23):
And, um, the companies or the ventures that are ready for that are really, they, they show up.
They show up and all you have to do is to bring your best work forward.
At least in my experience, that's how I became a fractional.
And it's a very, very nice question though, "How the frack did I end up here?"
(10:44):
Exactly.
One that I'm asking myself very often.
I, I want to get to the readiness part, uh- Mm-hmm.
'cause we talked about the readiness quiz and I teased it earlier, but I wanna put that aside for a second and
So again, going back to kind of like that moment of transition and, you know, those, that first project or first few projects.
How, you know, how did that look like for you?
(11:08):
So were they similar projects in, in D2C?
.9999999998836Was it something completely different? 151 00:11:14,819.9999999998836 --> 00:11:21,270 Are you today still very focused on D2C brands or, or have you kind of widened, you know- Mm-hmm.
the, the breadth and, and spread of projects that you're doing?
Yeah.
Great question.
In terms of
I started with D2C because that's what I knew best and that's what I anchored my knowledge.
(11:32):
Pre-pandemic, it was a big deal to everyone to have a D2C presence and even smaller brands or smaller players in the field would be interested in how to optimize this ratio between spend on marketing, working budget on brand activations or performance, purely performance marketing.
And I tend to bridge that gap very well because while I was still in ADI, I was very, quote unquote furious with why we're doing all this, like, performance marketing, so heavy on it.
(12:04):
And then I would be quite vocal about, "Well, I'm only here to harvest the demand.
You create the demand."
.9999999998836And we will have endless conversations about it and then eventually, it's such a power to own the budget on both because then it's really, really where the magic can happen because we shouldn't be thinking of any funnels in the mindset of the clients right now. 162 00:12:28,819.9999999998836 --> 00:12:28,840 Mm-hmm.
(12:28):
People do not care about our funnels.
It's very outdated.
If anything, if anything, breaking those silos between brand awareness and acquisition and all those, and conversion because right now everything is super findable for your brand.
So I started with D2C because I knew that I could give a fresh point of view on how to optimize the performance marketing without, you know, blaming the brand activation, that they don't do their job, or quote unquote, the other way around.
(12:58):
It's like, why do we care about, you know, plastering everywhere where people maybe won't notice our campaign with, uh, brand awareness, uh, banners left and right?
And that's how it started but it, it evolved within the ease of B2B.
I was never involved in B2B part of, um, any, any scale up but it seems that it's, um, really well-fitted for my personality because it's a relationship building really.
(13:29):
It's a, you're creating an authority around your product and it does require a lot long-term overview of your return of investment and I tend to work really well like that.
So what started with D2C evolved into morphing, uh, a lot of my efforts for some of the clients, not all of them, into B2B and, um, it's brand new for me.
(13:50):
I'm still just for last year with a client that allows me to literally play with it- Mm-hmm.
.9999999998836by understanding of it might take those relationships 2 years to bring, you know, results. 174 00:14:02,319.9999999998836 --> 00:14:10,220 But we start from being present in this and this organizations, in this and this manner, and it goes down to even the comms.
How do we structure the packages and where do we show up and how do we show up?
(14:14):
And, um, I tend to enjoy it when big deals come through.
I didn't expect that it will be also something that excites me because I used to think like, "Yeah, well, I have all the data.
Like, when people click here or there, I can immediately make actions."
Which was very exciting for me.
But actually, to see the longevity of your efforts is also quite exciting, meaning- Exactly.
(14:39):
.00000000011642if I do not show up and have these type of conversations, you can't expect those folks to remember you or even know who you are and what you do and come purchase through you within 2 years. 182 00:14:49,180.00000000011642 --> 00:15:00,560 So it's fascinating how, how easy it is actually to translate D2C to B2B, which was something that I misunderstood for so long and I always would be quoted, "I don't touch B2C."
(15:02):
.0000000001164It's, um- It's a different ball game, I would say.
I, I 100% agree with you.
I started almost 20 years ago.
My background has been in B2C and then I did games for a few years, like mobile games and then hardcore strategy PC games and then I kind of sw- and then found myself in e-comm and D2C and then in B2B starting with SMB, very product-led self-serve funnels and then ended up in enterprise sales B2B where we do accounts ba- account-based marketing and- Mm-hmm.
(15:36):
apply for RFPs and a deal can take 2 years and sometimes even more.
And used to think the same things, like, "No, I'm, you know, I'm a games guy.
.00000000011642I, you know, I need to see the, the clicks. 190 00:15:48,160.00000000011642 --> 00:15:49,700 I need to see the data ASAP.
I need to see"
When I worked in free-to-play mobile games like the boom of, of iPhones, um, 2014, 2013, um-It was, you know, all about, like, if, if someone doesn't convert within the first 7 days, then that cohort of data con- and customers is lost.
(16:09):
And, and now I'm looking at, like, 2 years of, of, of a deal to, to come through just to get them to sign, not even looking at how long it takes them to onboard and actually start using a product.
And it's amazing how if you kind of strip away all the bells and whistles, at the end of the day, it's, like, same logic.
(16:30):
Absolutely.
.9999999998836Same, same mentality of, of how do you think as a marketeer? 197 00:16:35,291.9999999998836 --> 00:16:37,412 How do you build your strategy?
How do you kind of deploy the, the tools that you have, the people that you have?
How do you convey the right message to the right person at the right time?
And it's amazing how that, like, doesn't change.
I, I love that.
.0000000001164Thanks for sharing also part of your journey because I think fractional or not fractional CMOs, we, we, we, we tend to be blamed for many of the mishaps in the business. 203 00:16:59,622.0000000001164 --> 00:17:08,992 And part of our job is also to explain it, it's almost you have to keep on reinforcing the value that the business will get.
(17:08):
.0000000001164But everyone understands businesses with amazing marketing strategies behind them. 205 00:17:14,592.0000000001164 --> 00:17:16,831.9999999998836 We think that they so understood what they're doing. 206 00:17:16,831.9999999998836 --> 00:17:22,927.9999999998836 It's because they're both, the strategy and the execution of it, just came together very neatly.
And we're like, yeah, of course, we, we have no doubt about some of the giants that we all love and, and, and buy from, but we as also as professionals, we know the hard work it takes to make sure that everyone understands that part of the strategy is what to say no to because indeed, there are so many things that we could be doing for our clients.
(17:43):
Mm-hmm.
But part of the, the job I p- I personally think I'm doing right now well or well enough is to explain, "No, this is something that will not fit the maturity of your business at the moment."
And I see that a lot of the scale-ups specifically are falling into similar traps where they would say, like, "Oh, I have to come across here in this manner, in that manner."
(18:05):
But you don't have the resources to maintain it in a, in 6 to 9 months.
You need to be always doing the calculation at the back of your head, what would it take to maintain a channel and for what reasons?
Like the puzzle.
Yeah.
You need to be able to make the puzzle really make sense.
Yeah.
(18:25):
So I think pushback is, is an interesting topic.
How are you seeing pushback?
So are you at a position right now where you do, do you have a lot of potential kind of leads, customers that are coming in, and you're pushing back, and you're saying like, "No, this is the wrong play or the wrong strategy or the wrong timing or wrong budget" or sometimes even, "I shouldn't be working with you.
(18:47):
You shouldn't be working with me.
.9999999997672You need something else, someone else"?
Yeah, um, I think that's, that's the beauty of it right now, right?
.9999999997672We get, we get the chance to decide where can we add more value and it's, it's really the autonomy that we get as fractionals is also the biggest, the biggest tool we have because what if I work with someone for 9 months and that is not adding to their value for the shareholders or for, for their custom- whoever their, their, their main kind of audience to please, so to say, is and simultaneously, I'm in 224 00:19:24,851.9999999997672 --> 00:19:26,896 the business of making my body of work.
(19:27):
So I need to be believing in the product.
I need to be also
Because that's how I know I do my best work, and I tend to work with founders and teams that actually are employing me or hiring me to make sure that I do challenge them.
I do
And equally, I need to be challenged back because if we are not getting to the same page to say, "Not now, not this, there is a bigger opportunity," it's very easily solvable.
(19:57):
We create this decision tree, and we put our egos aside because we are there for the best outcome of this entity that it's co-creation.
So we would be sitting together and say it very, very openly what needs to happen in 3 months, what needs to happen in 6 months.
Are we really
.99999999976717What needs to be true for this to be actually doable? 234 00:20:21,81.00000000023283 --> 00:20:30,442 And then you put all the ingredients there and it's very easy decision because then the pushing back happens very, very organically- Mm-hmm.
(20:32):
I think we should wait another 2 months," um, and so on and so forth.
But again, if that puzzle is like half, like you're having missing pieces, it falls down.
crumbles.
It
And it's so much more difficult to be repatching with different type of puzzles, just like because you kind of, "Oh, I need the frame to be from someone else," and you take a frame that is, has nothing to do with the, you know, what your business can be.
(20:59):
So, I would say that it is very important when you select y- who you want to work with that there is this push and pull, but it's done in a way that it's always for the better of the outcome.
I want to have success stories in my portfolio pretty openly, and they want to make sure- Yeah.
that they hire the best person for the role.
And honesty in the intake is the most crucial part.
(21:22):
I would be on many occasions saying, "I'm not, I'm not your person," because I will know and I will foresee what type of obstacles I will have to do my best work, but I can also see that maybe they are looking for someone that drives the message in a different manner depending on what the culture in the organization at the moment is.
(21:43):
And I don't subscribe for that.
And vice versa, vice versa.
If for instance there is an organization that is like, "Oh my God, I really need you to be the visionary leader for this team."
It's a strong team.
All they miss is someone to keep reinforcing, "Here is the North Star.
We're going there.
Here's where we're gonna be."
You're there to remove the obstacles from them, but someone else- I like it.
(22:07):
created the strategy.
And I love also those type of gigs because again, strategy is great and I, I, I don't have this like, "I have to own it all."
It might be that I believe in the strategy, I come and I be excellent executor of that strategy because it just makes sense, but you need someone to lead your team towards that strategy.
And I'm great at that, but you need to have all the ingredients for me to do my best work and the other way around.
(22:33):
It just needs to click because let's not forget, for some of these companies, y- you being hired, you'll be maybe the most highly paid person on their team. 258 00:22:43,860.0000000002328 --> 00:22:44,160 Possibilities.
For some of them.
For some of them, the investment in, uh, senior leadership is one of the biggest thing through
for the e- the year, the months in their portfolio of what we're gonna invest in this year, you might be the most expensive person and you have to- Exactly.
(23:01):
be not only okay with it, but you have to be also delivering that.
To own it, in a way.
To own it and to be transparent on like, "Wow."
And I think that it brings the question that we discussed also in our pre-recording.
.99999999976717It's sometimes because you might be that bigger chunk of their budget, they think that you can do it all, that you can do the copy- Exactly. 267 00:23:26,389.99999999976717 --> 00:23:27,920 that you can do this, that you can
(23:27):
.0000000002328Like smaller things that just because you're chief marketing means that you oversee and you know who you need to plug in and play. 269 00:23:35,860.0000000002328 --> 00:23:37,232 It doesn't mean you do it all.
Actually, I would strongly recommend anyone with a title like that not to be expert in all of it because you need to be able to tap into the experts.
And, um, the more valuable as a fractional you are is when you have a team that you know you can count on, either internally- Exactly.
(23:53):
in the organization or you bring your own kind of solutions because then you know you don't need to spend like 2, 3 months figuring out who's who.
You're like, "Eh, I have a couple of people I call," and I am like, "This is the story, this is the thing.
I can explain it."
The brief takes me 15 minutes rather- Yeah.
than onboarding them for 2 weeks.
(24:14):
Exactly.
And I, I also think it's a point of, I said, like owning the fact that you're an expensive resource- Mm-hmm.
and using that as, as, as a way to prioritize not just for yourself, but for that client because- Mm-hmm.
like you said, you know, there's this scope creep and they're like, "You know, yeah, you're the fractional CMO and you know this and this and that and that and we're already paying you, so yeah, why don't you do the copy?
(24:42):
Why don't you work on the briefs?
Why don't you do this and why don't you do that and help us with social media and help us with the email marketing?"
And at some point there comes this, this point in time where we say, "You know what?
.9999999997672I can do a lot of those things. 285 00:24:55,639.9999999997672 --> 00:24:57,880 Maybe I'm not 100% expert on all of them.
I can still do them, but is it worth the budget?
Is it worth my time right now to manage your LinkedIn presence?"
(25:06):
Mm-hmm.
"Or does it make more sense that I write the strategy and bring in the resource to do it for you?
And I can focus on more strategic things.
I can look at other channels, I can look at what competitors are doing.
I can bring in another person to manage the campaigns.
I can work on the creative briefs and make sure they're executed correctly."
(25:27):
And it's a much better use of my time, which translates to your money 'cause you're, at the end of the day, paying me get shit done.
Let's be honest, you know?
We're here to move the needle.
.00000000023283We're here to bring in revenue, to bring in new logos, sometimes to help with retention or churn, but those are big missions. 298 00:25:50,360.00000000023283 --> 00:25:55,340 Do you really need me to be focused on, you know- Yeah.
(25:55):
writing a microcopy right now?
Is that what's gonna move the needle?
Yeah.
I, I, I, I had examples like that in my, in my couple of projects.
And, and it's just, it's, it's just fascinating because, because you, you can obviously run a lot of things with optimization with the new technology that we have available, but then you're missing the, the, the personalization of
(26:19):
having a proper, like, PR.
Let's say, PR is so misunderstood in our in- like misunderstood, many people just don't pay attention to it as much we sh- we should and, and can.
And it's, um
Some people are like, "Oh, it's kind of, uh, not so important."
Well, I'll argue it's, it's one of the most important things you have to continue doing, not only when there is an emergency, not only when you have to be launching something, but ongoing evergreen efforts.
(26:46):
.99999999976717And how do you do it if, uh, PR agencies are super expensive or if you simply remember that you, "I forgot to seed this big thing." 310 00:26:54,322.99999999976717 --> 00:26:56,524 You can have inter- interns.
There are so many solutions right now but you need to see the cohesiveness of w- what's the ecosystem you're creating in a
for a client of yours.
(27:06):
Exactly.
Because then with or without you, you know they'll be successful.
Exactly.
By the way, I think that PR is getting more and more relevant now.
Everyone's talking about, um, let's call it AI SEO.
I heard AIO, GEO, a few others.
(27:26):
Let's call it AI SEO or like LLM SEO, or just like being present in, in the big LLMs.
Kind of been in, looking into that, um, a lot for, for some of my, of my clients.
And it's like the golden days for PR because essentially if you can get mentioned in credible sources again and again, LLMs are gonna pick that up.
(27:47):
And when someone asks, "What is the top brand that does X," or, "How can I solve this problem," and your company, your business is the solution, if you have strong PR and strong presence, then you're gonna surface more and more.
So I think for many years, PR kind of was downplayed and it was looked at something that only big companies do. 324 00:28:12,322.99999999976717 --> 00:28:18,503 And I think now a lot of, of younger companies that are less mature
(28:18):
No, not IPOed companies, public companies or, like, on the way to IPO, but even startup, scaled-ups around, like, round A, round B, are looking at, like, doubling down on PR.
And our job as, uh, as a Fractionals is to know that and to guide the decision-making from the board or whoever is, uh, allowing a budget to hire the right type of resources to know this.
(28:44):
Because let's not forget that, um, th- that it's changing rapidly.
Like, what we would have talked about 6 months ago is definitely not what we are mentioning right now.
.9999999997672And the idea that you have to stay on top of what's currently on the top-notch, easy to digest and, and 330 00:29:03,583.9999999997672 --> 00:29:05,360 Because smaller brands and
(29:06):
While the big brands have the budgets, they, they move so slow.
And we have the agility within the, the smaller brands to do exactly what's currently happening.
.00000000023283Our job is to define that North Star, co-create it, and make sure that we onboard, off-board accordingly so that it stays still true. 334 00:29:28,264.00000000023283 --> 00:29:35,223 And also validate if this North Star actually super realistic or do we wanna move it somehow and somewhere.
(29:35):
.99999999976717I think the power of mentoring or coaching or whichever word you wanna use, your founders to pivot in the right time is so crucial. 336 00:29:45,63.99999999976717 --> 00:29:53,644 I think part of the job also for some of my clients is to really be there for showing evidence but also
Because it's very lonely to be a founder most cases.
(29:56):
And, uh, you
Going back to if you made it to the senior leadership kind of crew, you're also there to support the, the founder. 340 00:30:05,264.00000000023283 --> 00:30:05,840 100%.
Very tough decisions with very difficult, you know, things that maybe don't sit super well with them.
So partially also we are there to witness the growth of the founder as well, and us as, uh, individuals and professionals.
(30:23):
But it's a tough work.
I mean, I wouldn't
I'm not here to, "I strongly recommend everyone
1B."
I just want to make sure that people understand that it's so much over, uh, like overarching than, "I'm an expert in 2, 3 channels."
But I would say so, yeah, um, motivator, mentor, uh, cheerleader- Yeah.
(30:43):
um, it's so important.
It's so important.
And if you're not interested in the business of people, it's a tough job, if you see it as a job.
But if you are there for- with the right type of, um, founders, it's a very beautiful job.
Yeah.
That's a, that's a great sentence.
(31:03):
Um- And on that topic of, of the right founders, kind of going back to founder readiness to, you know, they're gonna have to work with a Fractional like you.
I know we, we talked about kind of, like, this readiness mentality.
How do you
(31:24):
So how do you, uh, um, sort, or, or decide, or qualify in a way- Yeah.
you know, when someone reaches out to you, like, "Hey, Kremena, you know, we, we saw you on LinkedIn.
We heard about you.
We got a referral.
We wanna work with you."
How do you kind of decide, you know, are they a right client for me?
(31:45):
Are they ready?
Can I bring value?
Yeah.
That, that's the most important is, as I mentioned, the internal conversations that they need to have before they even approach someone to ask, "Hey, are you, are you available for a project?"
Or so on and so forth.
It really starts there.
If they've done their homework to know the exact scope that they think they need you for, it tells you a lot.
(32:09):
Because even in the initial conversations, usually my intake calls take not more than 45 minutes, and in the beginning, the first few questions are, "Why now?
Why me?"
Then you figure out that, uh, they thought about what are their problems, or what is it that they wanna bring to the table in the next, you know, few rounds of their strategy.
(32:32):
Like, they're, they're thinking of it.
Obviously, someone maybe told them, "Have you thought that maybe you can do this?"
Some people don't even know that we're available, and some people don't even think that
They think that if they have a head of marketing, it will be sufficient.
But then it's lacking this, it's, it's a very awkward timing when the, when the, the company's ready for the senior hire or they're still busy with executional pieces.
(32:58):
So I would say if they already are covering all their executional parts and they've done the exercise of a strategy, then I, I simply ask them to walk, walk me through it.
And then I'll be asking a couple of other questions on understanding, A, here are my strengths.
And the quality of their questions towards me tell me what, tells me everything I need to know if they're ready or not.
(33:20):
Sometimes there are vanity kind of, uh, metrics, such as revenue- Yeah.
like, we can, we can do, like, tick, tick, tick.
But how they think about those metrics being achieved is also what gives me- Interesting.
Yeah.
I, I think I mentioned to you, I work with founders between five and 10 1000000.
Why?
Because I've identified that making that revenue, it might seem super small for many of the companies.
(33:47):
But for the ones that I know I can help is the, the right space for me to, to come in to, to, to do my best work.
And either being hiring completely new team or reshuffling the, the, the strategy, or strengthening some of the pillars within the strategy, or completely revamping something around it.
(34:08):
.99999999976717Also, most of them come to me to go into completely new markets. 392 00:34:13,340.00000000023283 --> 00:34:19,958.9999999997672 And I know that when they are thinking of exploring new markets, the pressure on these markets performing is quite big. 393 00:34:19,958.9999999997672 --> 00:34:30,384 And then you just have couple of follow-up questions that immediately show you what evidence they have that they will be successful in Europe, or in MENA, or a- any region that they are wishing to enter. 394 00:34:31,279.99999999976717 --> 00:34:37,840.0000000002328 And, um, that initial conversation of 45 minutes is I ask them, "Why now? 395 00:34:37,840.0000000002328 --> 00:34:38,760.0000000002328 Why me?" 396 00:34:38,760.0000000002328 --> 00:34:40,420 They will give me their pitch.
(34:40):
.0000000002328What are their, uh, top 3 priorities and how would they know that they are successful? 398 00:34:47,279.99999999976717 --> 00:34:49,880 That, that's how I normally ask them.
.99999999976717And if the how do they know that they are successful is that they will have like a million users on their app or- 400 00:34:56,159.99999999976717 --> 00:35:01,469 whatever is the, the tangible thing that they want out of this collaboration, I'll be able to know.
(35:01):
And then the last piece of the conversation is literally like, "Okay, what are the questions that you have for me?"
Because that also tells me, and I'm, I'm extremely open book, I would say like, "A, I've never done that, but it sounds like challenging enough for me to do."
Or, "I know how to do this," and it's, it's really the level of, um, challenge and opportunity.
(35:26):
And honestly, for some of the, some of those projects, we've put them on a, "Not now.
Call me back in 3 months."
And I, I'm big on giving homework, and I know that not everyone likes that.
And I'm completely okay with it, the same way I have to do my homework when I get into- Yeah.
preparation for intake.
Is the industry that these people are operating in interest me?
(35:50):
Can I learn from it a lot?
Would it challenge me enough?
Do I have the availability for it?
And all of those things really make big difference, because I wanna be able to, to show up with my best resources forward.
And I wanna be challenged enough.
to really learn even more, yeah.
(36:10):
I think we are in the stage of our career where the opportunity of learning and making sure that you have projects that excite you is way more important than, "I got my next client for, I'm fine for another 9 months."
You might.
But you might also- Yeah.
be not in the right type of
So, I take those intakes very serious.
(36:32):
I think it's also kind of like a, um, kind of like a, um, Maslow, uh, pyramid of, of needs?
'Cause obviously- Yeah.
you need to get paid.
You need to pay your bills, you need to pay your rent- Mm-hmm.
your mortgage, whatever.
But then comes in that nother, that next layer of, "Am I enjoying this?"
Yeah.
"Is this feeding my, my brain and not just my belly?"
(36:57):
taking pride in what I do.
"Am I enjoying?
Am I learning?
Am I," sorry, "improving?"
Absolutely.
Um, and, and yeah, you know, if you're at that base level then yeah, you'll probably take whatever.
But once you kind of pass that level, that's where I think things get interesting, and that's where I think I, I agree with you that intakes become a bit more interesting.
(37:18):
And I also wanted to say from, as one marketeer to another- Yeah.
that that question of, "Why now?"
and, "Why me?"
from a marketing standpoint is fantastic, because you're kind of reversing the frame and you're saying, "Instead of me proving to you why you need me, I'm asking you to justify to yourself why you need me."
(37:43):
And I think that works really interesting from a psychological perspective, 'cause they're kind of already building the case of why they want to you.
And it's, it's deep
.00000000046566They are the decision-makers as well as, uh, I can, I can say, "Yes, I'm available," or, "No," or partially it might be true, partially it might not be true, quite frankly, because I sometimes had to say, like, "It sounds like good project on paper, but I much rather finish X, Y, and Z so that I can come back and say to you, 'I can truly help you when this and this and this is done.'" So, I would leave them either with a homework 443 00:38:19,336.00000000046566 --> 00:38:23,356 And some of them are not comfortable and then they never come back, and that's okay.
(38:23):
No shame around it, because we, we're all building businesses for longevity.
Like, we want them to succeed and we want them to be out there doing good in the world.
But sometimes when you ask them, it shows that they've done their homework.
They know that they can hire someone else that maybe has a different
But you also tap into my network.
(38:44):
.00000000046566You tap into my ability to bring you the right clients and the right resources, which is a big thing when I include you in my client portfolio. 450 00:38:55,336.00000000046566 --> 00:38:58,036 Not to, you know, be like, "Oh my God, I'm the best."
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying, "Have you thought, have you considered, like, what will be the best outcome of our cooperation?"
(39:06):
Um
Exactly.
So, and it often, as you say, it often gives them like, "Oh, okay."
Because I do the same exercise.
For them.
Like, "Why them and why now?"
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
"Is this the right client for me?
Is this the right time for me?"
Mm-hmm.
So, kind of segueing that into our next bit, let's talk about the wrong client, or the wrong time, or how I like to call this corner, your fracked up moment.
(39:36):
So, you know, I think, Tractional work is great and, you know, I think we're, we're doing it because we love it.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not all bells and whistles and, and, you know, we have, we have our highs and people, especially on LinkedIn, tend to talk a lot about their highs and, and best that "I maxxed their ARR in 3 minutes and I put this prompt in ChatGPT and it made me a millionaire."
(40:00):
And then not a lot of people talk about sometimes their, their lows, or something that didn't really work out.
.0000000004657So, chatted a bit about this before. 470 00:40:09,796.0000000004657 --> 00:40:15,556 Um, I think it will be interesting to hear your fracked up moment, one fracked up moment that you've had.
Yeah.
I had some, my share of them.
I think we all had.
That's the beauty of it.
I had moments where- But I want to air those moments.
(40:22):
It's, it's important.
As you mentioned, it's important to know when you're like, "Okay, I"
One that I can share openly for a client, non-disclosed client, um, we had to, uh, rehire 5 different agencies to do the social media.
5?
So I would say, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm, I'm, I'm brutally honest with the number.
(40:45):
And, um, mind you, the, the timeframe is like, uh, around the 2, t- 2 years.
And it's just this misunderstanding of, wow, you get to hire an agency that can do X, Y, and Z but then the quality drops dramatically.
(41:05):
And I think that those are the channels that I, I really need to anchor that if you can embed it into your own teams.
Because that's my learning from this experience of like, by the time I onboard you, offboard you, we're missing a, a gap of like 2, 3, whatever weeks.
Organic is a big thing.
Paid, we know that we don't wanna be putting too much paid because meta is meta.
(41:30):
We'll be continuing to meta, they are meta, metting their way.
And for me that was like, "Wow, how is it that we can't find the right fit for this specific brief?"
And we, we used different type of criterias, and this is also why, you know, sometimes if we are not given the chance to experiment with some of our assumptions, it can be embedded as like, "Oh my God, we're so bad at deciding that."
(41:56):
On the 6th time, we found a very, very, very good and potent, uh, partner for us.
But we had to do so many things.
first was like super high up kind of agency.
We weren't ready for that, and we didn't have enough evidence to showcase that.
But of course, we were trying to pitch to the investors that A, because we were in drowning of funding, we were like, "Oh my God, here is the ballpark for marketing."
(42:20):
That was a mistake, and we recognize it.
Then we go for something in between.
Then you go with a
And by the time you're on the 5th one, it's so tiring for your soul, literally, to make things right that- Yeah, or thinking like, "Why am I
Like why doesn't this work?
Why am I keep getting this wrong?"
And, and funnily enough, everyone
(42:41):
It's one of those type of brands that it's highly dependent on the visibility on those channels.
If it was another brand that we are like, "Oh, okay, we try, it doesn't work, let's re-, uh, like reconvene when we can."
I also believe that a lot of the new agencies are just good at putting 2, 3 pages together that look slick and, and good and have the buzzwords.
(43:03):
But being actually intimately involved with a brand and keeping it growing, I, I'm a strong believer of embedding those teams if possible.
Because what you gain, in my experience, from having experts that know it all about the algorithm and work with many brands, it often does not translate to social, mainly because you really need someone involved there.
(43:27):
It cannot be like couple of hours a week.
You wanna make sure that you're responding immediately, so you might as well just invest heavily in interns that know how to do this very well, have ownership of the whole project, and you give them KPIs that are super realistic rather than inflated, which was my mistake, quite frankly.
(43:50):
Yeah.
We thought that by paying top tier, we'll get X, Y, and Z, and that often is not the case.
And it requires you to hand, like handhel- Uh, hand- Handholding.
I can't even say handhold in English, but you know what I mean.
Like, you need to keep on telling them this and that.
And, um, yeah, that was a total what the frack moment for me.
(44:12):
Yeah.
I can imagine.
Yeah.
5 agencies is a lot.
I think was too much, no?
But yeah, we all have our, we all have our moments.
Totally.
Cool.
So let's, uh, let's switch gears and, uh, switch over to our quickfire round.
Mm-hmm.
So I'll ask you a couple of questions and just answer what comes to mind.
So first question, frack or fiction?
(44:34):
I've heard a lot of people say that if you want to grow your fractional business, the number one source for leads should be your own network.
Frack or fiction? 529 00:44:46,279.99999999953434 --> 00:44:48,520 I think it's a, it's a fact.
Yeah.
It's a f- It's, I think more than 80% of my clients come through my own network.
(44:55):
That's why it's so important to, to, to, to really, really anchor your ability to network with the right type of people that understand what you're trying to do so that they can pitch on your behalf as well. 533 00:45:08,779.9999999995343 --> 00:45:10,000 But this only works- Beautifully put.
when you do it also the other way around. 535 00:45:13,720.0000000004657 --> 00:45:14,840 What do you mean?
So if I would, for instance, I would, I also get the chance to pitch my friends' work so that it's, um
(45:22):
If I would say, "Hey, I'm looking, I'm available for 7 months," la la la, "This is what I look for," but it is the same responsibility.
You have to kind of return the favor.
If I know that someone in my network is super capable of d- dealing with X, Y, and Z and there is a project laying around, it's my duty to share that with that person because I know they will be a good fit, because either we worked together or we simply know that that's their interest.
(45:50):
So it's extremely crucial.
Sorry it didn't go too fiery, but
No, no.
That's okay.
But I think that was a- an important clarification.
So yeah, kind of like sharing the wealth, so to speak, or with, with co-collaborators within your network.
It's super important.Perfect, that's a great tip.
What is the one tool in your toolbox that you swear by?
(46:16):
Consumer insights.
Consumer insights.
I, I, there are so many tools now, AI tools, that you can get samples from audiences that you don't know, especially if you're going into a new market.
.0000000004657Ask, ask, ask, and use all those tools available because people will just gladly give you all the information.
(46:37):
And we don't need to spend so much money on massive crosstalk And time.
to obtain that as well.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Okay, interesting.
That's the first time someone answers that, that question, that answer.
What is your definition of a dream client versus a nightmare client?
A dream client knows where they wanna go and how they wanna go there and understands that they need help in some areas where I can strengthen.
(47:05):
The nightmare is that changes their mind every 5 minutes mainly because it's a, it's in this state of, like, "Oh, my God.
I'm, I'm, I'm really unsure."
When the north star keeps changing too much, it's a sign that it's not anchored into either truth or ability to get there.
(47:26):
And then, it gets very, very difficult for me to do my, I keep saying my best work, but it's literally consistency in the work so that you can see the benefits of it.
Yeah.
I, uh, I had that client in the past-
that changed his mind every 5 minutes.
That was indeed a nightmare client.
Yeah.
(47:46):
Okay.
Um, where do you see the future of fractional?
It's a big one.
I, yeah, I actually think that, uh, more people will em- embark on this, mainly because the sheer amount of people calling me to ask, "How does it work?"
Not just ex-colleagues, but also folks that are into these incubators and, um, and scale-ups.
(48:08):
I think in Europe specifically, it will grow a little bit more.
I mean, let's not forget that, um, we've been through periods where we've shown that we can work remotely.
Now, we're in a period where we can show that we can work for multiple players at the same time if the quality of the work is up to their liking and they're understandable, the deliverables are there.
(48:30):
.00000000046566And I also think that, uh, for scale-ups specifically, it's a great advantage to hire fractional mainly because they don't get to pay, I don't know, insurance. 578 00:48:42,412.00000000046566 --> 00:48:50,622 I do take care of my pension, my insurance, my, all of my other stuff, so you don't get to worry about that as a, as a company.
And I would say that with the economical state at the moment, this is a great advantage for some of the companies to really look into it, to say, "I need senior leadership on this and this specific, um, I don't know, role, but how would I be able to do it?"
(49:09):
And you can get to be very creative on not having it on s- having them on staff, and I think that that will be way more popular.
If I'm wrong, in a year, we will ti- w- well, time will tell when we speak about it-
but I still think we're, we're scratching the surface of this in Europe specifically. 583 00:49:27,770.9999999995343 --> 00:49:33,808 I wanna frame this last, I don't know, 90 seconds and, and send it to every founder in Europe.
(49:34):
Well, I think, I think because they misunderstand what we can provide for them because think about it.
It's so scary to, to, to take the first leap in faith for I'm actually ready to grow my business the way I've always said on paper I would do.
Exactly.
And now, it's like it's time, well, put your money where your mouth is kind of, and, and you need to be able to equip them with enough evidence that they're on the right path.
(50:01):
.0000000004657So, but I see it blooming. 589 00:50:03,912.0000000004657 --> 00:50:09,952 I see it way more easy for companies to digest and, and take advantage.
And the more we can help each other to, to understand what this craft is because it's an art.
.99999999953434You're selling yourself. 592 00:50:16,270.99999999953434 --> 00:50:17,892 You're selling your services.
You're making a good relationships.
It's, it's just like very, very
(50:22):
.999999999534339It's different from when you're in company and you're building your own career 'cause there you need the sponsors, then you need this. 596 00:50:28,11.999999999534339 --> 00:50:29,860 Here, it's like it's an open source.
You need to be really, really
And reputation matters in this field quite a bit more- Exactly.
yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we're kind of nearing the, the end of, of our, uh, of our episode, uh, but I do have one last question.
(50:48):
So if anyone's listening and they're maybe still a bit earlier in their, in their career path, maybe still full time, kind of thinking about going fractional, they have aspirations to go fractional- Mm-hmm.
if you could give one piece of advice to someone like that, what would that ad- advice be?
(51:08):
Yeah.
Start before you're ready.
I'm always a big believer in it, because you can call it as fancy as the- Uh, 'cause I, I got a feedback, "Oh, it's so fancy," what it is, like when people misunderstand it.
But start before you're ready.
See if, um, if there is any of your skills that you take for granted, because you're so good at it, you don't pay attention to that skill as much as, uh, maybe some other people will be gladly asking for your help on that.
(51:36):
Even if you are in a full time very demanding job like I used to be, and honestly, if a project excited me, I would still allocate time.
So it's just a matter of, um, it's the best time to try it out, to say, "Do I really like working with multiple, uh, clients?
Am I more kind of, um, consultant role rather than, or mentor, or advisory?"
(52:00):
Or what- whatever label you put into it, make sure that your skills are really optimized for the solution that someone is seeking, and start before you're ready.
You will know immediately, like, does it sit well with you?
Do you get excited by the opportunity to help someone bring the business to the next level?
And there will be evidence of that.
(52:22):
And it might not be immediately your bank account.
I must admit that sometimes that takes time.
But there will be evidence of your success that is anchored in actually
And don't underestimate what you learned in corporate, because I would be, "Everyone knows that."
Well, no, everyone knows that if they were exposed to the things you've been exposed.
(52:43):
Not everyone knows the things you know, because they haven't had the chance to do that.
They were building a business at the time you were building a career somewhere else.
And, uh, when you meet those two factors, it's really
Start before you're ready.
Check with your friends, who, who needs help, um, uh, who needs help with any of this.
(53:04):
And you'll be surprised how much more value you can bring to the, to the surface for them.
Yeah.
sense.
And also comment, comment, comment on the, the podcast, like, "Hey, I, I did like five projects, I hated it," or, or the other way around.
Mainly because it's, it's, it's interesting to see how everyone is building their, their, their journey with this, because it starts with a, I think, like, you're listening to this now and you're like, "Those two are talking a lot of sense.
(53:30):
I can do this too."
And ju- just try it out and let us know.
Maybe, maybe you land a new role that is, like, very, way more fulfilling and works m- so much better for you, because that was one of my motivations as well.
I wanted my lifestyle to not be sacrificed for the benefit of having this massive title.
I want to still anchor good lifestyle and do an amazing job.
(53:55):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's a fantastic advice.
All right.
Well, Chromena, thank you for this amazing conversation.
It's been, uh, very, very insightful and a ton of fun.
And before we wrap this up, what, you know, what type of, of maybe kind of like in a nutshell, what type of founders or companies do you work with?
(54:19):
If someone wants to reach out to you, what do they need to make sure that they have when they, when they come looking for you?
Absolutely.
And obviously, you, we're gonna have your, uh, LinkedIn profile in the show notes.
.0000000004657Yeah. 648 00:54:30,720.0000000004657 --> 00:54:31,200 Thank you.
Thank you so much for this exposure.
Founders that really want to bring their company into a place that they haven't even thought about, more visionary founders that, um, are seeking the nudge to operate their marketing with additional support, that is senior leadership support.
(54:51):
Whereas they know that the
.0000000004657I don't need to convince them what marketing can do for them.
Those are the best.
Okay.
And you said your sweet spot is like five to 10?
Five to 10 million revenue and, uh, D2C is primarily what I like, although I have clients into the B2B market.
And, uh, I specialize also in go-to-market for like let's say you're in Europe, you go to the States or vice versa, or different geographies, because I learn tons from those type of interactions as well.
(55:21):
Um, getting to know what the client is really
Uh, getting to do those tools that you asked me, like what are my favorite, I, I literally get excited when people tell me what they need and we're like, "We actually have what you need."
And now, how do we bridge the gap between showing the product and positioning it like, like they really are waiting for?
(55:42):
Rather than trying to make a market out of thin air.
I think, I think that's where, that's where sometimes we get trapped as, uh, CMOs.
Yes.
course.
Can't agree more with that, unfortunately.
All right.
So that's it for us today.
.99999999953434Chromena, thank you so much for being on the show with me today. 669 00:56:03,279.99999999953434 --> 00:56:05,240 It's been a blast having you.
(56:05):
And, uh, to the people listening, I hope you
or watching on YouTube, hope you enjoyed, uh, our conversation today.
Please like, follow, subscribe, share this with, uh, with an aspiring fractional.
Obviously, comment, and yeah, and we'll see you all on the next episode.
thank you Chromena- Thank you for having me.
(56:27):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Bye.
When someone reaches out to you and like, "Hey, Kremena, uh, we, we saw you on LinkedIn, we heard about you, we got a referral, we want to work with you," how do you kind of decide, "Are they a right client for me?
Are they ready?"
It really starts there, if they've done their homework to know the exact scope that they think they need you for.
And, um, that initial conversation of 45 minutes is, I ask them, "Why now?
(00:21):
Why me?"
They will give me their pitch.
What are their, uh, top 3 priorities and how will they know that they are successful?
That's how I normally ask them.
And if the how do they know that they are successful is that they will have, like, a million users on their app or w- whatever is the, the tangible thing that they want out of this collaboration, I'll be able to know.
And then the last piece of the conversation is literally with, like, "Okay, what are the questions that you have for me?"
(00:45):
Because that also tells me, and I'm, I'm extremely open book.
I would say like, "A, I've never done that, but it sounds like, uh, challenging enough for me to do," or, "I know how to do this."
And it's, it's really the level of, um, challenge and opportunity.
Today, I have with me Kremena Yordanova.
Kremena builds momentum by design.
She's an ex-Adidas and ex-Reebok, and now she's a fractional CMO, pairing enterprise-grade rigor with founder-focused clarity.
(01:09):
And starting with her readiness quiz that filters fantasy from feasible.
Today, Kremena's here with me to demystify what fractionals actually do, and why the one hire to do it all mentality is a trap.
Welcome to Oh, Frack, the podcast where top fractional leaders share their wins, struggles, and stories from the trenches, hosted by Adir Enbe.
(01:30):
Welcome to Oh, Frack, the podcast where we dive into the world of fractional leadership, the wins, the struggles, and everything in between.
I'm your host, Adir Enbe, fractional CMO.
And today, I have with me Kremena Yordanova.
Hi, Kremena.
Welcome.
Hi, everyone.
Thanks for having me, Adir.
.9999999999854Thank you for joining me today.
(01:51):
So, Kremena builds momentum by design.
She's an ex-Adidas and ex-Reebok, and now she's a fractional CMO, pairing enterprise-grade rigor with founder-focused clarity.
And stating, uh, starting, sorry, with her readiness quiz that filters fantasy from feasible.
Today, Kremena's here with me to demystify what fractionals actually do, and why the one hire to do it all mentality is a trap.
(02:21):
And we got some balloons.
Thank you for, uh, for joining, Kremena.
.0000000000291And, um, let's, let's kick it off with a little icebreaker question.
So in our, in our prep conversation, you joked about living on 5 calendars.
Um, and I can relate.
I think I have 6 at the moment.
What's the most ridiculous time zone mishap that you've had as a fractional juggling multiple calendars?
(02:46):
It's insane.
I just want to mention that I have deep compassion for everyone that thinks that having it all is easy.
As a highly organized in one case and highly disorganized in other cases person, the weirdest thing is I'm currently recording in UK.
And you would think that being a global, and I would have so many more misalignments between just Amsterdam and London than with any other geography.
(03:14):
So last week alone, I missed 3 opportunities to be on time for my meetings.
And because you are just, like, not in the, the realm of, "Oh my God, it's only one hour.
Is it before?
Is it ahead?
Is it this?
Is it that?"
And it happens to me way more often than I would like to admit.
But it's just, it's just such a
(03:35):
You also get the chance to filter who, who genuinely understand that I have all the alarms, I have all the reminders.
It's just that when I see the clock, I'm like, "Yeah, sure, I have one more hour."
"No, you don't.
You have to be on this call right now."
Yeah.
So the weirdest one was like this mere one-hour difference can really tip me into starting to believe that it's hard to maintain those 5 calendars.
(04:00):
When in reality, with the ones that are maybe in Australia, I have a client in Australia and I have a client in LA, I kind of know when, when I need to be on those calls.
Like it's, it's, it's I'm there on time.
The one hour, it gets me always.
I 100% agree with you.
Uh, I think we, we talked about it in our prep call that, uh, I have, um, a client based in, in Bulgaria, in Sofia, and that's, uh, an hour ahead of the, of us in the Netherlands.
(04:28):
And it always gets confusing as well.
Yeah, and- So I feel you.
understanding of how to link all your calendars, and, uh, there is a big research done that you should keep things separate, so then you give a, um, clear space and time to work on one project and clear space and time to work on another project works really well.
(04:49):
But what happens when they merge so seemingly?
What happens when, for instance, right now, I'm up for a one-month residency?
I can't postpone everything for a month.
You definitely need to find a way to work, uh, with your calendars.
And where is like the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays separating from the other clients' work?
(05:09):
It's just very fascinating how we get to do it all, but we need to have parameters that works for us.
And it's deeply personal.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Okay, so I think that's a great segue to kind of take a few steps back and maybe hear a bit about your fractional journey.
So, Kremena, how the frack did you get here?
(05:31):
I- I am questioning myself every day this question.
Like, "How the frack did I get here?"
And it's a very good day, I would say, like, it was by design.
I really always wanted to do this way.
Actually, it was not so much by design, but by luck.
I was already helping couple of, um, I wouldn't call them clients, but good friends of mine with some topics on marketing while I was still employed with, with, uh, my long time, uh, collaborator, which I did as a Reebok, I stayed 17 years.
(05:59):
But always on the side, I would be very interested in helping people, helping people with some of their marketing strategies.
AndOne thing led to another when I knew it's time for me to branch out and do my own thing.
I already had client portfolio without knowing they were client portfolio.
Interesting.
.00000000005821So it was friends of mine that actually asked me, "What you gonna do now?"
(06:22):
I first of all had to say, "I need to take a break and then redefine what I wanna do."
Because for so long, I have so many interests that were put on the like, "Oh, yeah, one day I'll finish the book.
One day I'll do this, one day I'll do that."
You know those semi-unfinished businesses that you started and you never ended?
And I was like, "Finally I'll get the chance to do that."
(06:43):
But then again, you have the skills that people tend to like to interact with.
And friends of mine were asking, "Hey, would you mind taking on board this and that project?
But I can only, quote-unquote, 'afford you for one day of the week.'" Yeah.
And I was like, "Sure, I mean, you know, I'm free right now.
You know, I need to pay my bills, quite frankly."
And, uh
(07:04):
Yeah.
And they were like, "Great.
This means you'll be my fractional."
Quite honestly, I didn't even know what that word meant 2 years ago.
And I was like, "Okay.
I guess that's how we do it."
I did a little bit of research and it's a terminology that in the States and Canada is used quite often, where in the startup and scale-up world- Yeah.
(07:25):
where you literally don't maybe need a full-time employee, but it's different from part-time.
And that's why I love the, the fractional piece, because you get me and my knowledge and my 20 years of experience on the fraction of the both price and timing, because you hire me for deliverable.
And, um, this was very important for me to understand, because from long-term employee to run your own calendar even, because that's next to the time you sell your expertise, it just requires a different set of skills.
(08:00):
You might be a great marketeer, but if you're not able to know how to market yourself, it's a very different obviously, uh, um, space you're operating.
Yeah.
So it happened by a, by circumstances and people really wanting to work with me, and framing it in a way that it's, "Would you work on Monday?
(08:20):
I can only afford you on Monday."
And it maybe started as a frugal kind of, uh, way to do business, but it developed into actually providing so much more value for the, the team at the time.
.00000000005821And, uh, yeah, it wasn't very by design. 114 00:08:36,99.00000000005821 --> 00:08:52,016 It was by slash luck, slash, oh my God, um, I really enjoy being involved with multiple businesses and in multiple industries, because I felt in the past that I stayed mono-focused on one brand or 2 brands at the time.
(08:52):
17 years is a long time.
It's a long time.
Let's be honest.
Let's be honest.
Nowadays, no one does a career like that.
So I would- Yeah.
say that it was a beautiful eye-opener to say, "Let me open up my network and see, who do I know?"
And it turns out everyone I knew was either doing yoga, practicing yoga, 'cause I'm also a yoga teacher, or- Oh, interesting.
(09:15):
is
Yeah.
Or is in the business of selling shoes.
And I got to question myself, "Why is that?"
I mean, obviously, we stick to the bubbles we create.
And I find that it's so much more rewarding for me now to get educated on different industries, and translate what I've learned in G2C and in sports good industry to others.
(09:39):
Because there is this multidisciplinary, um, knowledge that we don't spend too much attention to pass.
But yeah, to answer your question, it was a friend of mine literally said, "Hey, I can only give you one day, but I have a, a quite important project.
Like, you definitely need to help me with this."
(10:00):
And that's how it started.
And one thing led to another by just mentioning, "This is what I do now.
This is how I operate.
This is what a pilot with me looks like."
It does require a lot of you to be honest about your own skills.
Yeah.
And being transparent about, "I don't help you with this, this, and that, but I do help you with this, this, and that."
(10:23):
And, um, the companies or the ventures that are ready for that are really, they, they show up.
They show up and all you have to do is to bring your best work forward.
At least in my experience, that's how I became a fractional.
And it's a very, very nice question though, "How the frack did I end up here?"
(10:44):
Exactly.
One that I'm asking myself very often.
I, I want to get to the readiness part, uh- Mm-hmm.
'cause we talked about the readiness quiz and I teased it earlier, but I wanna put that aside for a second and
So again, going back to kind of like that moment of transition and, you know, those, that first project or first few projects.
How, you know, how did that look like for you?
(11:08):
So were they similar projects in, in D2C?
.9999999998836Was it something completely different? 151 00:11:14,819.9999999998836 --> 00:11:21,270 Are you today still very focused on D2C brands or, or have you kind of widened, you know- Mm-hmm.
the, the breadth and, and spread of projects that you're doing?
Yeah.
Great question.
In terms of
I started with D2C because that's what I knew best and that's what I anchored my knowledge.
(11:32):
Pre-pandemic, it was a big deal to everyone to have a D2C presence and even smaller brands or smaller players in the field would be interested in how to optimize this ratio between spend on marketing, working budget on brand activations or performance, purely performance marketing.
And I tend to bridge that gap very well because while I was still in ADI, I was very, quote unquote furious with why we're doing all this, like, performance marketing, so heavy on it.
(12:04):
And then I would be quite vocal about, "Well, I'm only here to harvest the demand.
You create the demand."
.9999999998836And we will have endless conversations about it and then eventually, it's such a power to own the budget on both because then it's really, really where the magic can happen because we shouldn't be thinking of any funnels in the mindset of the clients right now. 162 00:12:28,819.9999999998836 --> 00:12:28,840 Mm-hmm.
(12:28):
People do not care about our funnels.
It's very outdated.
If anything, if anything, breaking those silos between brand awareness and acquisition and all those, and conversion because right now everything is super findable for your brand.
So I started with D2C because I knew that I could give a fresh point of view on how to optimize the performance marketing without, you know, blaming the brand activation, that they don't do their job, or quote unquote, the other way around.
(12:58):
It's like, why do we care about, you know, plastering everywhere where people maybe won't notice our campaign with, uh, brand awareness, uh, banners left and right?
And that's how it started but it, it evolved within the ease of B2B.
I was never involved in B2B part of, um, any, any scale up but it seems that it's, um, really well-fitted for my personality because it's a relationship building really.
(13:29):
It's a, you're creating an authority around your product and it does require a lot long-term overview of your return of investment and I tend to work really well like that.
So what started with D2C evolved into morphing, uh, a lot of my efforts for some of the clients, not all of them, into B2B and, um, it's brand new for me.
(13:50):
I'm still just for last year with a client that allows me to literally play with it- Mm-hmm.
.9999999998836by understanding of it might take those relationships 2 years to bring, you know, results. 174 00:14:02,319.9999999998836 --> 00:14:10,220 But we start from being present in this and this organizations, in this and this manner, and it goes down to even the comms.
How do we structure the packages and where do we show up and how do we show up?
(14:14):
And, um, I tend to enjoy it when big deals come through.
I didn't expect that it will be also something that excites me because I used to think like, "Yeah, well, I have all the data.
Like, when people click here or there, I can immediately make actions."
Which was very exciting for me.
But actually, to see the longevity of your efforts is also quite exciting, meaning- Exactly.
(14:39):
.00000000011642if I do not show up and have these type of conversations, you can't expect those folks to remember you or even know who you are and what you do and come purchase through you within 2 years. 182 00:14:49,180.00000000011642 --> 00:15:00,560 So it's fascinating how, how easy it is actually to translate D2C to B2B, which was something that I misunderstood for so long and I always would be quoted, "I don't touch B2C."
(15:02):
.0000000001164It's, um- It's a different ball game, I would say.
I, I 100% agree with you.
I started almost 20 years ago.
My background has been in B2C and then I did games for a few years, like mobile games and then hardcore strategy PC games and then I kind of sw- and then found myself in e-comm and D2C and then in B2B starting with SMB, very product-led self-serve funnels and then ended up in enterprise sales B2B where we do accounts ba- account-based marketing and- Mm-hmm.
(15:36):
apply for RFPs and a deal can take 2 years and sometimes even more.
And used to think the same things, like, "No, I'm, you know, I'm a games guy.
.00000000011642I, you know, I need to see the, the clicks. 190 00:15:48,160.00000000011642 --> 00:15:49,700 I need to see the data ASAP.
I need to see"
When I worked in free-to-play mobile games like the boom of, of iPhones, um, 2014, 2013, um-It was, you know, all about, like, if, if someone doesn't convert within the first 7 days, then that cohort of data con- and customers is lost.
(16:09):
And, and now I'm looking at, like, 2 years of, of, of a deal to, to come through just to get them to sign, not even looking at how long it takes them to onboard and actually start using a product.
And it's amazing how if you kind of strip away all the bells and whistles, at the end of the day, it's, like, same logic.
(16:30):
Absolutely.
.9999999998836Same, same mentality of, of how do you think as a marketeer? 197 00:16:35,291.9999999998836 --> 00:16:37,412 How do you build your strategy?
How do you kind of deploy the, the tools that you have, the people that you have?
How do you convey the right message to the right person at the right time?
And it's amazing how that, like, doesn't change.
I, I love that.
.0000000001164Thanks for sharing also part of your journey because I think fractional or not fractional CMOs, we, we, we, we tend to be blamed for many of the mishaps in the business. 203 00:16:59,622.0000000001164 --> 00:17:08,992 And part of our job is also to explain it, it's almost you have to keep on reinforcing the value that the business will get.
(17:08):
.0000000001164But everyone understands businesses with amazing marketing strategies behind them. 205 00:17:14,592.0000000001164 --> 00:17:16,831.9999999998836 We think that they so understood what they're doing. 206 00:17:16,831.9999999998836 --> 00:17:22,927.9999999998836 It's because they're both, the strategy and the execution of it, just came together very neatly.
And we're like, yeah, of course, we, we have no doubt about some of the giants that we all love and, and, and buy from, but we as also as professionals, we know the hard work it takes to make sure that everyone understands that part of the strategy is what to say no to because indeed, there are so many things that we could be doing for our clients.
(17:43):
Mm-hmm.
But part of the, the job I p- I personally think I'm doing right now well or well enough is to explain, "No, this is something that will not fit the maturity of your business at the moment."
And I see that a lot of the scale-ups specifically are falling into similar traps where they would say, like, "Oh, I have to come across here in this manner, in that manner."
(18:05):
But you don't have the resources to maintain it in a, in 6 to 9 months.
You need to be always doing the calculation at the back of your head, what would it take to maintain a channel and for what reasons?
Like the puzzle.
Yeah.
You need to be able to make the puzzle really make sense.
Yeah.
(18:25):
So I think pushback is, is an interesting topic.
How are you seeing pushback?
So are you at a position right now where you do, do you have a lot of potential kind of leads, customers that are coming in, and you're pushing back, and you're saying like, "No, this is the wrong play or the wrong strategy or the wrong timing or wrong budget" or sometimes even, "I shouldn't be working with you.
(18:47):
You shouldn't be working with me.
.9999999997672You need something else, someone else"?
Yeah, um, I think that's, that's the beauty of it right now, right?
.9999999997672We get, we get the chance to decide where can we add more value and it's, it's really the autonomy that we get as fractionals is also the biggest, the biggest tool we have because what if I work with someone for 9 months and that is not adding to their value for the shareholders or for, for their custom- whoever their, their, their main kind of audience to please, so to say, is and simultaneously, I'm in 224 00:19:24,851.9999999997672 --> 00:19:26,896 the business of making my body of work.
(19:27):
So I need to be believing in the product.
I need to be also
Because that's how I know I do my best work, and I tend to work with founders and teams that actually are employing me or hiring me to make sure that I do challenge them.
I do
And equally, I need to be challenged back because if we are not getting to the same page to say, "Not now, not this, there is a bigger opportunity," it's very easily solvable.
(19:57):
We create this decision tree, and we put our egos aside because we are there for the best outcome of this entity that it's co-creation.
So we would be sitting together and say it very, very openly what needs to happen in 3 months, what needs to happen in 6 months.
Are we really
.99999999976717What needs to be true for this to be actually doable? 234 00:20:21,81.00000000023283 --> 00:20:30,442 And then you put all the ingredients there and it's very easy decision because then the pushing back happens very, very organically- Mm-hmm.
(20:32):
I think we should wait another 2 months," um, and so on and so forth.
But again, if that puzzle is like half, like you're having missing pieces, it falls down.
crumbles.
It
And it's so much more difficult to be repatching with different type of puzzles, just like because you kind of, "Oh, I need the frame to be from someone else," and you take a frame that is, has nothing to do with the, you know, what your business can be.
(20:59):
So, I would say that it is very important when you select y- who you want to work with that there is this push and pull, but it's done in a way that it's always for the better of the outcome.
I want to have success stories in my portfolio pretty openly, and they want to make sure- Yeah.
that they hire the best person for the role.
And honesty in the intake is the most crucial part.
(21:22):
I would be on many occasions saying, "I'm not, I'm not your person," because I will know and I will foresee what type of obstacles I will have to do my best work, but I can also see that maybe they are looking for someone that drives the message in a different manner depending on what the culture in the organization at the moment is.
(21:43):
And I don't subscribe for that.
And vice versa, vice versa.
If for instance there is an organization that is like, "Oh my God, I really need you to be the visionary leader for this team."
It's a strong team.
All they miss is someone to keep reinforcing, "Here is the North Star.
We're going there.
Here's where we're gonna be."
You're there to remove the obstacles from them, but someone else- I like it.
(22:07):
created the strategy.
And I love also those type of gigs because again, strategy is great and I, I, I don't have this like, "I have to own it all."
It might be that I believe in the strategy, I come and I be excellent executor of that strategy because it just makes sense, but you need someone to lead your team towards that strategy.
And I'm great at that, but you need to have all the ingredients for me to do my best work and the other way around.
(22:33):
It just needs to click because let's not forget, for some of these companies, y- you being hired, you'll be maybe the most highly paid person on their team. 258 00:22:43,860.0000000002328 --> 00:22:44,160 Possibilities.
For some of them.
For some of them, the investment in, uh, senior leadership is one of the biggest thing through
for the e- the year, the months in their portfolio of what we're gonna invest in this year, you might be the most expensive person and you have to- Exactly.
(23:01):
be not only okay with it, but you have to be also delivering that.
To own it, in a way.
To own it and to be transparent on like, "Wow."
And I think that it brings the question that we discussed also in our pre-recording.
.99999999976717It's sometimes because you might be that bigger chunk of their budget, they think that you can do it all, that you can do the copy- Exactly. 267 00:23:26,389.99999999976717 --> 00:23:27,920 that you can do this, that you can
(23:27):
.0000000002328Like smaller things that just because you're chief marketing means that you oversee and you know who you need to plug in and play. 269 00:23:35,860.0000000002328 --> 00:23:37,232 It doesn't mean you do it all.
Actually, I would strongly recommend anyone with a title like that not to be expert in all of it because you need to be able to tap into the experts.
And, um, the more valuable as a fractional you are is when you have a team that you know you can count on, either internally- Exactly.
(23:53):
in the organization or you bring your own kind of solutions because then you know you don't need to spend like 2, 3 months figuring out who's who.
You're like, "Eh, I have a couple of people I call," and I am like, "This is the story, this is the thing.
I can explain it."
The brief takes me 15 minutes rather- Yeah.
than onboarding them for 2 weeks.
(24:14):
Exactly.
And I, I also think it's a point of, I said, like owning the fact that you're an expensive resource- Mm-hmm.
and using that as, as, as a way to prioritize not just for yourself, but for that client because- Mm-hmm.
like you said, you know, there's this scope creep and they're like, "You know, yeah, you're the fractional CMO and you know this and this and that and that and we're already paying you, so yeah, why don't you do the copy?
(24:42):
Why don't you work on the briefs?
Why don't you do this and why don't you do that and help us with social media and help us with the email marketing?"
And at some point there comes this, this point in time where we say, "You know what?
.9999999997672I can do a lot of those things. 285 00:24:55,639.9999999997672 --> 00:24:57,880 Maybe I'm not 100% expert on all of them.
I can still do them, but is it worth the budget?
Is it worth my time right now to manage your LinkedIn presence?"
(25:06):
Mm-hmm.
"Or does it make more sense that I write the strategy and bring in the resource to do it for you?
And I can focus on more strategic things.
I can look at other channels, I can look at what competitors are doing.
I can bring in another person to manage the campaigns.
I can work on the creative briefs and make sure they're executed correctly."
(25:27):
And it's a much better use of my time, which translates to your money 'cause you're, at the end of the day, paying me get shit done.
Let's be honest, you know?
We're here to move the needle.
.00000000023283We're here to bring in revenue, to bring in new logos, sometimes to help with retention or churn, but those are big missions. 298 00:25:50,360.00000000023283 --> 00:25:55,340 Do you really need me to be focused on, you know- Yeah.
(25:55):
writing a microcopy right now?
Is that what's gonna move the needle?
Yeah.
I, I, I, I had examples like that in my, in my couple of projects.
And, and it's just, it's, it's just fascinating because, because you, you can obviously run a lot of things with optimization with the new technology that we have available, but then you're missing the, the, the personalization of
(26:19):
having a proper, like, PR.
Let's say, PR is so misunderstood in our in- like misunderstood, many people just don't pay attention to it as much we sh- we should and, and can.
And it's, um
Some people are like, "Oh, it's kind of, uh, not so important."
Well, I'll argue it's, it's one of the most important things you have to continue doing, not only when there is an emergency, not only when you have to be launching something, but ongoing evergreen efforts.
(26:46):
.99999999976717And how do you do it if, uh, PR agencies are super expensive or if you simply remember that you, "I forgot to seed this big thing." 310 00:26:54,322.99999999976717 --> 00:26:56,524 You can have inter- interns.
There are so many solutions right now but you need to see the cohesiveness of w- what's the ecosystem you're creating in a
for a client of yours.
(27:06):
Exactly.
Because then with or without you, you know they'll be successful.
Exactly.
By the way, I think that PR is getting more and more relevant now.
Everyone's talking about, um, let's call it AI SEO.
I heard AIO, GEO, a few others.
(27:26):
Let's call it AI SEO or like LLM SEO, or just like being present in, in the big LLMs.
Kind of been in, looking into that, um, a lot for, for some of my, of my clients.
And it's like the golden days for PR because essentially if you can get mentioned in credible sources again and again, LLMs are gonna pick that up.
(27:47):
And when someone asks, "What is the top brand that does X," or, "How can I solve this problem," and your company, your business is the solution, if you have strong PR and strong presence, then you're gonna surface more and more.
So I think for many years, PR kind of was downplayed and it was looked at something that only big companies do. 324 00:28:12,322.99999999976717 --> 00:28:18,503 And I think now a lot of, of younger companies that are less mature
(28:18):
No, not IPOed companies, public companies or, like, on the way to IPO, but even startup, scaled-ups around, like, round A, round B, are looking at, like, doubling down on PR.
And our job as, uh, as a Fractionals is to know that and to guide the decision-making from the board or whoever is, uh, allowing a budget to hire the right type of resources to know this.
(28:44):
Because let's not forget that, um, th- that it's changing rapidly.
Like, what we would have talked about 6 months ago is definitely not what we are mentioning right now.
.9999999997672And the idea that you have to stay on top of what's currently on the top-notch, easy to digest and, and 330 00:29:03,583.9999999997672 --> 00:29:05,360 Because smaller brands and
(29:06):
While the big brands have the budgets, they, they move so slow.
And we have the agility within the, the smaller brands to do exactly what's currently happening.
.00000000023283Our job is to define that North Star, co-create it, and make sure that we onboard, off-board accordingly so that it stays still true. 334 00:29:28,264.00000000023283 --> 00:29:35,223 And also validate if this North Star actually super realistic or do we wanna move it somehow and somewhere.
(29:35):
.99999999976717I think the power of mentoring or coaching or whichever word you wanna use, your founders to pivot in the right time is so crucial. 336 00:29:45,63.99999999976717 --> 00:29:53,644 I think part of the job also for some of my clients is to really be there for showing evidence but also
Because it's very lonely to be a founder most cases.
(29:56):
And, uh, you
Going back to if you made it to the senior leadership kind of crew, you're also there to support the, the founder. 340 00:30:05,264.00000000023283 --> 00:30:05,840 100%.
Very tough decisions with very difficult, you know, things that maybe don't sit super well with them.
So partially also we are there to witness the growth of the founder as well, and us as, uh, individuals and professionals.
(30:23):
But it's a tough work.
I mean, I wouldn't
I'm not here to, "I strongly recommend everyone
1B."
I just want to make sure that people understand that it's so much over, uh, like overarching than, "I'm an expert in 2, 3 channels."
But I would say so, yeah, um, motivator, mentor, uh, cheerleader- Yeah.
(30:43):
um, it's so important.
It's so important.
And if you're not interested in the business of people, it's a tough job, if you see it as a job.
But if you are there for- with the right type of, um, founders, it's a very beautiful job.
Yeah.
That's a, that's a great sentence.
(31:03):
Um- And on that topic of, of the right founders, kind of going back to founder readiness to, you know, they're gonna have to work with a Fractional like you.
I know we, we talked about kind of, like, this readiness mentality.
How do you
(31:24):
So how do you, uh, um, sort, or, or decide, or qualify in a way- Yeah.
you know, when someone reaches out to you, like, "Hey, Kremena, you know, we, we saw you on LinkedIn.
We heard about you.
We got a referral.
We wanna work with you."
How do you kind of decide, you know, are they a right client for me?
(31:45):
Are they ready?
Can I bring value?
Yeah.
That, that's the most important is, as I mentioned, the internal conversations that they need to have before they even approach someone to ask, "Hey, are you, are you available for a project?"
Or so on and so forth.
It really starts there.
If they've done their homework to know the exact scope that they think they need you for, it tells you a lot.
(32:09):
Because even in the initial conversations, usually my intake calls take not more than 45 minutes, and in the beginning, the first few questions are, "Why now?
Why me?"
Then you figure out that, uh, they thought about what are their problems, or what is it that they wanna bring to the table in the next, you know, few rounds of their strategy.
(32:32):
Like, they're, they're thinking of it.
Obviously, someone maybe told them, "Have you thought that maybe you can do this?"
Some people don't even know that we're available, and some people don't even think that
They think that if they have a head of marketing, it will be sufficient.
But then it's lacking this, it's, it's a very awkward timing when the, when the, the company's ready for the senior hire or they're still busy with executional pieces.
(32:58):
So I would say if they already are covering all their executional parts and they've done the exercise of a strategy, then I, I simply ask them to walk, walk me through it.
And then I'll be asking a couple of other questions on understanding, A, here are my strengths.
And the quality of their questions towards me tell me what, tells me everything I need to know if they're ready or not.
(33:20):
Sometimes there are vanity kind of, uh, metrics, such as revenue- Yeah.
like, we can, we can do, like, tick, tick, tick.
But how they think about those metrics being achieved is also what gives me- Interesting.
Yeah.
I, I think I mentioned to you, I work with founders between five and 10 1000000.
Why?
Because I've identified that making that revenue, it might seem super small for many of the companies.
(33:47):
But for the ones that I know I can help is the, the right space for me to, to come in to, to, to do my best work.
And either being hiring completely new team or reshuffling the, the, the strategy, or strengthening some of the pillars within the strategy, or completely revamping something around it.
(34:08):
.99999999976717Also, most of them come to me to go into completely new markets. 392 00:34:13,340.00000000023283 --> 00:34:19,958.9999999997672 And I know that when they are thinking of exploring new markets, the pressure on these markets performing is quite big. 393 00:34:19,958.9999999997672 --> 00:34:30,384 And then you just have couple of follow-up questions that immediately show you what evidence they have that they will be successful in Europe, or in MENA, or a- any region that they are wishing to enter. 394 00:34:31,279.99999999976717 --> 00:34:37,840.0000000002328 And, um, that initial conversation of 45 minutes is I ask them, "Why now? 395 00:34:37,840.0000000002328 --> 00:34:38,760.0000000002328 Why me?" 396 00:34:38,760.0000000002328 --> 00:34:40,420 They will give me their pitch.
(34:40):
.0000000002328What are their, uh, top 3 priorities and how would they know that they are successful? 398 00:34:47,279.99999999976717 --> 00:34:49,880 That, that's how I normally ask them.
.99999999976717And if the how do they know that they are successful is that they will have like a million users on their app or- 400 00:34:56,159.99999999976717 --> 00:35:01,469 whatever is the, the tangible thing that they want out of this collaboration, I'll be able to know.
(35:01):
And then the last piece of the conversation is literally like, "Okay, what are the questions that you have for me?"
Because that also tells me, and I'm, I'm extremely open book, I would say like, "A, I've never done that, but it sounds like challenging enough for me to do."
Or, "I know how to do this," and it's, it's really the level of, um, challenge and opportunity.
(35:26):
And honestly, for some of the, some of those projects, we've put them on a, "Not now.
Call me back in 3 months."
And I, I'm big on giving homework, and I know that not everyone likes that.
And I'm completely okay with it, the same way I have to do my homework when I get into- Yeah.
preparation for intake.
Is the industry that these people are operating in interest me?
(35:50):
Can I learn from it a lot?
Would it challenge me enough?
Do I have the availability for it?
And all of those things really make big difference, because I wanna be able to, to show up with my best resources forward.
And I wanna be challenged enough.
to really learn even more, yeah.
(36:10):
I think we are in the stage of our career where the opportunity of learning and making sure that you have projects that excite you is way more important than, "I got my next client for, I'm fine for another 9 months."
You might.
But you might also- Yeah.
be not in the right type of
So, I take those intakes very serious.
(36:32):
I think it's also kind of like a, um, kind of like a, um, Maslow, uh, pyramid of, of needs?
'Cause obviously- Yeah.
you need to get paid.
You need to pay your bills, you need to pay your rent- Mm-hmm.
your mortgage, whatever.
But then comes in that nother, that next layer of, "Am I enjoying this?"
Yeah.
"Is this feeding my, my brain and not just my belly?"
(36:57):
taking pride in what I do.
"Am I enjoying?
Am I learning?
Am I," sorry, "improving?"
Absolutely.
Um, and, and yeah, you know, if you're at that base level then yeah, you'll probably take whatever.
But once you kind of pass that level, that's where I think things get interesting, and that's where I think I, I agree with you that intakes become a bit more interesting.
(37:18):
And I also wanted to say from, as one marketeer to another- Yeah.
that that question of, "Why now?"
and, "Why me?"
from a marketing standpoint is fantastic, because you're kind of reversing the frame and you're saying, "Instead of me proving to you why you need me, I'm asking you to justify to yourself why you need me."
(37:43):
And I think that works really interesting from a psychological perspective, 'cause they're kind of already building the case of why they want to you.
And it's, it's deep
.00000000046566They are the decision-makers as well as, uh, I can, I can say, "Yes, I'm available," or, "No," or partially it might be true, partially it might not be true, quite frankly, because I sometimes had to say, like, "It sounds like good project on paper, but I much rather finish X, Y, and Z so that I can come back and say to you, 'I can truly help you when this and this and this is done.'" So, I would leave them either with a homework 443 00:38:19,336.00000000046566 --> 00:38:23,356 And some of them are not comfortable and then they never come back, and that's okay.
(38:23):
No shame around it, because we, we're all building businesses for longevity.
Like, we want them to succeed and we want them to be out there doing good in the world.
But sometimes when you ask them, it shows that they've done their homework.
They know that they can hire someone else that maybe has a different
But you also tap into my network.
(38:44):
.00000000046566You tap into my ability to bring you the right clients and the right resources, which is a big thing when I include you in my client portfolio. 450 00:38:55,336.00000000046566 --> 00:38:58,036 Not to, you know, be like, "Oh my God, I'm the best."
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying, "Have you thought, have you considered, like, what will be the best outcome of our cooperation?"
(39:06):
Um
Exactly.
So, and it often, as you say, it often gives them like, "Oh, okay."
Because I do the same exercise.
For them.
Like, "Why them and why now?"
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
"Is this the right client for me?
Is this the right time for me?"
Mm-hmm.
So, kind of segueing that into our next bit, let's talk about the wrong client, or the wrong time, or how I like to call this corner, your fracked up moment.
(39:36):
So, you know, I think, Tractional work is great and, you know, I think we're, we're doing it because we love it.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not all bells and whistles and, and, you know, we have, we have our highs and people, especially on LinkedIn, tend to talk a lot about their highs and, and best that "I maxxed their ARR in 3 minutes and I put this prompt in ChatGPT and it made me a millionaire."
(40:00):
And then not a lot of people talk about sometimes their, their lows, or something that didn't really work out.
.0000000004657So, chatted a bit about this before. 470 00:40:09,796.0000000004657 --> 00:40:15,556 Um, I think it will be interesting to hear your fracked up moment, one fracked up moment that you've had.
Yeah.
I had some, my share of them.
I think we all had.
That's the beauty of it.
I had moments where- But I want to air those moments.
(40:22):
It's, it's important.
As you mentioned, it's important to know when you're like, "Okay, I"
One that I can share openly for a client, non-disclosed client, um, we had to, uh, rehire 5 different agencies to do the social media.
5?
So I would say, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm, I'm, I'm brutally honest with the number.
(40:45):
And, um, mind you, the, the timeframe is like, uh, around the 2, t- 2 years.
And it's just this misunderstanding of, wow, you get to hire an agency that can do X, Y, and Z but then the quality drops dramatically.
(41:05):
And I think that those are the channels that I, I really need to anchor that if you can embed it into your own teams.
Because that's my learning from this experience of like, by the time I onboard you, offboard you, we're missing a, a gap of like 2, 3, whatever weeks.
Organic is a big thing.
Paid, we know that we don't wanna be putting too much paid because meta is meta.
(41:30):
We'll be continuing to meta, they are meta, metting their way.
And for me that was like, "Wow, how is it that we can't find the right fit for this specific brief?"
And we, we used different type of criterias, and this is also why, you know, sometimes if we are not given the chance to experiment with some of our assumptions, it can be embedded as like, "Oh my God, we're so bad at deciding that."
(41:56):
On the 6th time, we found a very, very, very good and potent, uh, partner for us.
But we had to do so many things.
first was like super high up kind of agency.
We weren't ready for that, and we didn't have enough evidence to showcase that.
But of course, we were trying to pitch to the investors that A, because we were in drowning of funding, we were like, "Oh my God, here is the ballpark for marketing."
(42:20):
That was a mistake, and we recognize it.
Then we go for something in between.
Then you go with a
And by the time you're on the 5th one, it's so tiring for your soul, literally, to make things right that- Yeah, or thinking like, "Why am I
Like why doesn't this work?
Why am I keep getting this wrong?"
And, and funnily enough, everyone
(42:41):
It's one of those type of brands that it's highly dependent on the visibility on those channels.
If it was another brand that we are like, "Oh, okay, we try, it doesn't work, let's re-, uh, like reconvene when we can."
I also believe that a lot of the new agencies are just good at putting 2, 3 pages together that look slick and, and good and have the buzzwords.
(43:03):
But being actually intimately involved with a brand and keeping it growing, I, I'm a strong believer of embedding those teams if possible.
Because what you gain, in my experience, from having experts that know it all about the algorithm and work with many brands, it often does not translate to social, mainly because you really need someone involved there.
(43:27):
It cannot be like couple of hours a week.
You wanna make sure that you're responding immediately, so you might as well just invest heavily in interns that know how to do this very well, have ownership of the whole project, and you give them KPIs that are super realistic rather than inflated, which was my mistake, quite frankly.
(43:50):
Yeah.
We thought that by paying top tier, we'll get X, Y, and Z, and that often is not the case.
And it requires you to hand, like handhel- Uh, hand- Handholding.
I can't even say handhold in English, but you know what I mean.
Like, you need to keep on telling them this and that.
And, um, yeah, that was a total what the frack moment for me.
(44:12):
Yeah.
I can imagine.
Yeah.
5 agencies is a lot.
I think was too much, no?
But yeah, we all have our, we all have our moments.
Totally.
Cool.
So let's, uh, let's switch gears and, uh, switch over to our quickfire round.
Mm-hmm.
So I'll ask you a couple of questions and just answer what comes to mind.
So first question, frack or fiction?
(44:34):
I've heard a lot of people say that if you want to grow your fractional business, the number one source for leads should be your own network.
Frack or fiction? 529 00:44:46,279.99999999953434 --> 00:44:48,520 I think it's a, it's a fact.
Yeah.
It's a f- It's, I think more than 80% of my clients come through my own network.
(44:55):
That's why it's so important to, to, to, to really, really anchor your ability to network with the right type of people that understand what you're trying to do so that they can pitch on your behalf as well. 533 00:45:08,779.9999999995343 --> 00:45:10,000 But this only works- Beautifully put.
when you do it also the other way around. 535 00:45:13,720.0000000004657 --> 00:45:14,840 What do you mean?
So if I would, for instance, I would, I also get the chance to pitch my friends' work so that it's, um
(45:22):
If I would say, "Hey, I'm looking, I'm available for 7 months," la la la, "This is what I look for," but it is the same responsibility.
You have to kind of return the favor.
If I know that someone in my network is super capable of d- dealing with X, Y, and Z and there is a project laying around, it's my duty to share that with that person because I know they will be a good fit, because either we worked together or we simply know that that's their interest.
(45:50):
So it's extremely crucial.
Sorry it didn't go too fiery, but
No, no.
That's okay.
But I think that was a- an important clarification.
So yeah, kind of like sharing the wealth, so to speak, or with, with co-collaborators within your network.
It's super important.Perfect, that's a great tip.
What is the one tool in your toolbox that you swear by?
(46:16):
Consumer insights.
Consumer insights.
I, I, there are so many tools now, AI tools, that you can get samples from audiences that you don't know, especially if you're going into a new market.
.0000000004657Ask, ask, ask, and use all those tools available because people will just gladly give you all the information.
(46:37):
And we don't need to spend so much money on massive crosstalk And time.
to obtain that as well.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Okay, interesting.
That's the first time someone answers that, that question, that answer.
What is your definition of a dream client versus a nightmare client?
A dream client knows where they wanna go and how they wanna go there and understands that they need help in some areas where I can strengthen.
(47:05):
The nightmare is that changes their mind every 5 minutes mainly because it's a, it's in this state of, like, "Oh, my God.
I'm, I'm, I'm really unsure."
When the north star keeps changing too much, it's a sign that it's not anchored into either truth or ability to get there.
(47:26):
And then, it gets very, very difficult for me to do my, I keep saying my best work, but it's literally consistency in the work so that you can see the benefits of it.
Yeah.
I, uh, I had that client in the past-
that changed his mind every 5 minutes.
That was indeed a nightmare client.
Yeah.
(47:46):
Okay.
Um, where do you see the future of fractional?
It's a big one.
I, yeah, I actually think that, uh, more people will em- embark on this, mainly because the sheer amount of people calling me to ask, "How does it work?"
Not just ex-colleagues, but also folks that are into these incubators and, um, and scale-ups.
(48:08):
I think in Europe specifically, it will grow a little bit more.
I mean, let's not forget that, um, we've been through periods where we've shown that we can work remotely.
Now, we're in a period where we can show that we can work for multiple players at the same time if the quality of the work is up to their liking and they're understandable, the deliverables are there.
(48:30):
.00000000046566And I also think that, uh, for scale-ups specifically, it's a great advantage to hire fractional mainly because they don't get to pay, I don't know, insurance. 578 00:48:42,412.00000000046566 --> 00:48:50,622 I do take care of my pension, my insurance, my, all of my other stuff, so you don't get to worry about that as a, as a company.
And I would say that with the economical state at the moment, this is a great advantage for some of the companies to really look into it, to say, "I need senior leadership on this and this specific, um, I don't know, role, but how would I be able to do it?"
(49:09):
And you can get to be very creative on not having it on s- having them on staff, and I think that that will be way more popular.
If I'm wrong, in a year, we will ti- w- well, time will tell when we speak about it-
but I still think we're, we're scratching the surface of this in Europe specifically. 583 00:49:27,770.9999999995343 --> 00:49:33,808 I wanna frame this last, I don't know, 90 seconds and, and send it to every founder in Europe.
(49:34):
Well, I think, I think because they misunderstand what we can provide for them because think about it.
It's so scary to, to, to take the first leap in faith for I'm actually ready to grow my business the way I've always said on paper I would do.
Exactly.
And now, it's like it's time, well, put your money where your mouth is kind of, and, and you need to be able to equip them with enough evidence that they're on the right path.
(50:01):
.0000000004657So, but I see it blooming. 589 00:50:03,912.0000000004657 --> 00:50:09,952 I see it way more easy for companies to digest and, and take advantage.
And the more we can help each other to, to understand what this craft is because it's an art.
.99999999953434You're selling yourself. 592 00:50:16,270.99999999953434 --> 00:50:17,892 You're selling your services.
You're making a good relationships.
It's, it's just like very, very
(50:22):
.999999999534339It's different from when you're in company and you're building your own career 'cause there you need the sponsors, then you need this. 596 00:50:28,11.999999999534339 --> 00:50:29,860 Here, it's like it's an open source.
You need to be really, really
And reputation matters in this field quite a bit more- Exactly.
yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we're kind of nearing the, the end of, of our, uh, of our episode, uh, but I do have one last question.
(50:48):
So if anyone's listening and they're maybe still a bit earlier in their, in their career path, maybe still full time, kind of thinking about going fractional, they have aspirations to go fractional- Mm-hmm.
if you could give one piece of advice to someone like that, what would that ad- advice be?
(51:08):
Yeah.
Start before you're ready.
I'm always a big believer in it, because you can call it as fancy as the- Uh, 'cause I, I got a feedback, "Oh, it's so fancy," what it is, like when people misunderstand it.
But start before you're ready.
See if, um, if there is any of your skills that you take for granted, because you're so good at it, you don't pay attention to that skill as much as, uh, maybe some other people will be gladly asking for your help on that.
(51:36):
Even if you are in a full time very demanding job like I used to be, and honestly, if a project excited me, I would still allocate time.
So it's just a matter of, um, it's the best time to try it out, to say, "Do I really like working with multiple, uh, clients?
Am I more kind of, um, consultant role rather than, or mentor, or advisory?"
(52:00):
Or what- whatever label you put into it, make sure that your skills are really optimized for the solution that someone is seeking, and start before you're ready.
You will know immediately, like, does it sit well with you?
Do you get excited by the opportunity to help someone bring the business to the next level?
And there will be evidence of that.
(52:22):
And it might not be immediately your bank account.
I must admit that sometimes that takes time.
But there will be evidence of your success that is anchored in actually
And don't underestimate what you learned in corporate, because I would be, "Everyone knows that."
Well, no, everyone knows that if they were exposed to the things you've been exposed.
(52:43):
Not everyone knows the things you know, because they haven't had the chance to do that.
They were building a business at the time you were building a career somewhere else.
And, uh, when you meet those two factors, it's really
Start before you're ready.
Check with your friends, who, who needs help, um, uh, who needs help with any of this.
(53:04):
And you'll be surprised how much more value you can bring to the, to the surface for them.
Yeah.
sense.
And also comment, comment, comment on the, the podcast, like, "Hey, I, I did like five projects, I hated it," or, or the other way around.
Mainly because it's, it's, it's interesting to see how everyone is building their, their, their journey with this, because it starts with a, I think, like, you're listening to this now and you're like, "Those two are talking a lot of sense.
(53:30):
I can do this too."
And ju- just try it out and let us know.
Maybe, maybe you land a new role that is, like, very, way more fulfilling and works m- so much better for you, because that was one of my motivations as well.
I wanted my lifestyle to not be sacrificed for the benefit of having this massive title.
I want to still anchor good lifestyle and do an amazing job.
(53:55):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's a fantastic advice.
All right.
Well, Chromena, thank you for this amazing conversation.
It's been, uh, very, very insightful and a ton of fun.
And before we wrap this up, what, you know, what type of, of maybe kind of like in a nutshell, what type of founders or companies do you work with?
(54:19):
If someone wants to reach out to you, what do they need to make sure that they have when they, when they come looking for you?
Absolutely.
And obviously, you, we're gonna have your, uh, LinkedIn profile in the show notes.
.0000000004657Yeah. 648 00:54:30,720.0000000004657 --> 00:54:31,200 Thank you.
Thank you so much for this exposure.
Founders that really want to bring their company into a place that they haven't even thought about, more visionary founders that, um, are seeking the nudge to operate their marketing with additional support, that is senior leadership support.
(54:51):
Whereas they know that the
.0000000004657I don't need to convince them what marketing can do for them.
Those are the best.
Okay.
And you said your sweet spot is like five to 10?
Five to 10 million revenue and, uh, D2C is primarily what I like, although I have clients into the B2B market.
And, uh, I specialize also in go-to-market for like let's say you're in Europe, you go to the States or vice versa, or different geographies, because I learn tons from those type of interactions as well.
(55:21):
Um, getting to know what the client is really
Uh, getting to do those tools that you asked me, like what are my favorite, I, I literally get excited when people tell me what they need and we're like, "We actually have what you need."
And now, how do we bridge the gap between showing the product and positioning it like, like they really are waiting for?
(55:42):
Rather than trying to make a market out of thin air.
I think, I think that's where, that's where sometimes we get trapped as, uh, CMOs.
Yes.
course.
Can't agree more with that, unfortunately.
All right.
So that's it for us today.
.99999999953434Chromena, thank you so much for being on the show with me today. 669 00:56:03,279.99999999953434 --> 00:56:05,240 It's been a blast having you.
(56:05):
And, uh, to the people listening, I hope you
or watching on YouTube, hope you enjoyed, uh, our conversation today.
Please like, follow, subscribe, share this with, uh, with an aspiring fractional.
Obviously, comment, and yeah, and we'll see you all on the next episode.
thank you Chromena- Thank you for having me.
(56:27):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Bye.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.