August 14, 2024 • 55 mins
Welcome back to another heartfelt episode of Out Loud and Uncorked! I'm your host, Jes Roesch, and this week, we dive deep into the questions and feedback from our listeners following our last episode. Join me and my husband, Matt, as we share our journey through my health struggles, including my cancer treatments and stem cell transplant.
In this episode, we explore the emotional and physical challenges we faced, the importance of staying optimistic, and how our experiences have strengthened our marriage and family. We also discuss the impact of my illness on our children and the crucial role of being both a caretaker and a supportive partner.
Whether you're a patient, a caretaker, or someone looking for inspiration, this episode offers a candid look at resilience, love, and the power of staying positive. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at @outloudanduncorkedpod and my personal handle @jeslroesch. Subscribe, share, and let's uncork some amazing stories together!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Welcome to Out Loud and Uncorked, where we pop the top on intriguing people
and their unique experiences.
You can expect some real unfiltered truths and plenty of laughs.
So grab a drink, sit back and join me as I uncork some amazing stories.
The views, information or opinions expressed during this podcast are solely
(00:24):
those of the the individual involved and do not necessarily represent the show.
The content does not constitute professional advice or services and is not intended
to treat, diagnose, or cure any medical conditions.
Out Loud and Uncorked and its hosts are not responsible for the accuracy of
any information contained in the podcast series. Please take care when listening.
(00:45):
Everybody, welcome to Out Loud and Uncorked. I am your host, Jess Rush.
Welcome back. So in last week's episode, we talked about me and my health,
my past, Matt and I, you know, our story, and the listeners have spoken.
(01:06):
And first of all, I really want to thank everyone, anyone that downloaded,
that listened to the episode.
It was an incredible amount of listeners, and I'm...
Like humbled by it. It was really, really amazing.
And with that being said, I received also a ton of feedback and lots of questions,
which I love because that just means that people are engaged and that's pretty amazing to me.
(01:31):
So I received a lot of similar questions, which we'll get into today.
But the elephant in the room, or I should say husband in the room,
is that people love of Matt Rush and lots of comments on his deep radio voice
and his charming personality,
(01:52):
both of which I love, of course. So I get it.
So I am all about giving the people what they want.
So without further ado, welcome back, babe.
Well, hello. Now you're even. Now I have to like not focus on the deep radio voice.
What do you mean not focus on it? People love it. All right.
(02:15):
Okay. Well. It's pretty impressive.
I think I've always said that you sound a lot like Will Arnett.
Yeah. I get that a lot. Yeah. People at work say that a lot. Yeah.
Because you even kind of, I feel like people have even said that you look like him a little bit.
I've heard that. Yeah. But you do have like that good deep like.
Rasp. I'm Batman voice. words good to
(02:39):
know i'm glad that i was born with such an amazing
voice that i cannot control okay thanks thank
you linda and dave yep are you surprised
with the amount of messages that i got about you i am
because this was never really on my
agenda right this wasn't i was here to support you in this endeavor and but
(03:02):
you know i think yeah we obviously know each other best and And if I can help
give the people what they want by asking you questions,
I know it's my picture going up on the, on the.
The cover next? Well, my picture is not even on the cover. No, that's true.
(03:22):
But sure, we'll put you up there. Okay, all right. And I'm also thinking,
and let me know if I'm off here, but I think your experience in interviewing
potential candidates at work has really made you a perfect co-host for a podcast. Okay.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's kind of, I mean, my job is about leadership and about people, right?
(03:44):
So I do lead a large team and I would say the bulk of my job is communication and talking.
And yeah, I've interviewed, I don't know, thousands of people,
right, throughout my career. Including me.
We learned that last time. And so yeah, you know, I have to communicate in all
(04:05):
aspects of my job, right?
Whether it's my team and my, you know,
employees or whether it's our executive team at
corporate and so yeah i have to i
have to have that ability to really try to chat with people
so sure i think that maybe helps a little bit you got it well
thank you i know and sometimes you come home and you're like exhausted from
(04:25):
talking and i never really understood it until i started doing like stuff like
this and it is exhausting to talk like just to talk and just to be because you
have to be on too it's not just talking like you're you know you're face to
face you're not You're not working from home. You're not doing zoom interviews and.
(04:45):
Meetings and work calls and stuff you know at home you're you're
like in the in the grind in the
grind there in front of people like you got to be on all the time yeah
i mean i think it's i think the energy comes from
having to really pay attention and listen
right and that's something that i learned a long
time ago and have really had to work on over the past you know really the first
(05:08):
i guess 10 years of my life and my career was you can i can give everybody an
opinion right but if i I want to really listen and have a conversation that
I'm getting my point across. The other person's getting their point across.
You have to listen. And that takes a lot of energy to your point.
So yeah, sometimes like a moment, I'm just like, everybody shut up.
(05:31):
Which is hard when you come into a house with two boys, a dog,
everybody that wants your attention. Yeah, for sure.
Well, with all that being said, I am so happy to have you back.
I love having you here, of course because you're the person
i feel most safe and comfortable
with and always have so just
having you across from me makes it fun and easy awesome yeah i love it too you
(05:55):
feel the same way i do i do it's it's it's fun like i said i didn't you know
know that this was going to be the path but it's always a great opportunity
to talk to you so yeah yeah and i yeah obviously i'm enamored with you.
So I want to help share the story of you with other people because your story is inspiring.
(06:16):
And if it helps other people, that's the goal of this.
Well, thank you. And I would love to have you join me on this as much as possible.
Fantastic. Okay, great. So we are definitely, we definitely have lots of ideas
with more content with us together.
So more stuff for us to talk about in the future. Obviously,
(06:36):
we'd love the feedback. We'd love to hear what people want to hear about too.
But let's get into today's show. Because like I said earlier,
I was asked a lot of questions after last week, and I thought we could answer
some of those today. Sure.
All right. So some of the things that were asked most were a few questions I kind of picked out.
(06:58):
One of them is, let's see, could you go more in depth about your treatment and transplant? planned.
Another one is, how did you guys stay optimistic during all of those traumatic experiences?
And what did you learn in those times about yourselves, your marriage, life?
(07:19):
That could be like a whole day.
We learned a lot. And then...
I got a lot of questions like, do you have PTSD? How do you not have PTSD?
How do you live with so much grief without allowing it to have a hold on your
life or being able to move forward?
(07:41):
That's a good one. Yep. And how did your kids handle you being sick?
That's a really good one too. That's a great one. They're all really great questions.
So we've really learned so much over the past 12 years.
So maybe our struggles could really help someone else going through something
similar and that's really what it's all about yeah you know i think i get it
(08:05):
at work a lot a lot of my colleagues,
you know they'll they know the story and they've heard different
parts of it and they ask
me too right they're like how did how'd you guys get through
that that's probably the number one question right how'd you get through it
the details we could answer i have no
idea i don't know either but the the details right
(08:25):
that's what people want to know about because most people
probably know somebody that's gone through a
illness or a sickness or maybe not
cancer but something i mean cancer has touched
so many people yeah so i that's
understandable and i think people are curious too and
it's funny because even since the
(08:46):
first time the second time like
anything thing having to do with me and I can't speak
on you know for everyone that has gone through similar experiences
but people are always like when they
want to ask me a question about it or like want to
know more about it they're always like do you mind talking about it like is
it okay if I bring it up so I'm always like of course like it's a big part of
(09:10):
my life and it's something that I'm never going to stop thinking about it's
something that like I'm gonna always have to be on top of,
especially knowing that 10 years later it can come back.
So it's never, I'm never, I'm always wide open to talk about any of it, all of it.
(09:31):
I think that's part of what really is pushing me to want to be a patient mentor, just because I know.
Sometimes you just have these questions or things you wanna get out and you
want somebody that understands.
Exactly kind of what you're going through to to be able to be an ear or give you some advice.
(09:55):
And that could be really hard when you're going through something like that
it's very lonely yeah i think what made it possible for us to get through it
and we're kind of getting further down right but i i think i mentioned it last
time i didn't have experience with any of this stuff I did. You did.
And I didn't, we never talked about it before it all happened.
(10:18):
So I didn't know, right? When we did get the news, I didn't know what to ask.
I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to be.
I didn't know any of it. So I think a lot of, I don't know, call it social media
and just a different world we all live in now.
A lot of people see other individuals going through that.
And I think people are thinking more now about, wow, what would I do if my spouse, friend, child...
(10:41):
Ever went through something how would i respond and that i
think that's why people are curious yeah i agree and i'm okay
with that yeah me too if i can help somebody with that too
yeah it's it's important yeah because being the caretaker
oh is like a whole i mean we could make another episode just on that yeah because
being the patient is one thing being the caretaker is a whole another beast
(11:02):
yes right because you were the caretaker for me you still had to be dead You still had to go to work.
You still had to run the household.
You still had to do everything else in your normal life and then take care of me on top of it.
(11:22):
And you're also used to me taking care of kind of everything here while you're
taking care of everything at work.
So it was a lot of things all in one. Well, yeah, and it's all the physical,
quote unquote, things that you're taking care of with chores and things like that.
But it's the emotional side too, right? And thinking about how to take care
(11:45):
of your emotional state and keep you positive, but...
Realistic and how i handle those emotions and how i'm displaying my emotions
i mean that's a whole separate yeah piece that's taxing caretakers don't get
enough credit yeah for sure i'll take a medal okay the olympics just i know
(12:06):
you would take all the credit.
No not by any means all right so i guess right so the question is about your
treatment and And we talked very briefly about it last time.
You know, your first treatment was pretty standard.
Yeah, pretty straightforward. Yeah, pretty straightforward. I mean,
(12:26):
there were some like weird little nuances that you had to go through.
Well, because I was pregnant mostly. Right. So couldn't do specific,
I think last time you said like scans and things that you weren't allowed to do.
And a couple, I think I mentioned last time, there was a couple of drugs that
could possibly cross the placenta.
So we left those off. But I was listening back to it and realized that I never
(12:49):
really kind of said that I did get those again.
I had to be caught up on it after.
It wasn't just like, oh, we can leave these off.
It was a whole, it's a whole regimen. So yeah, the first time was just chemotherapy.
And I remember in the beginning, our doctor was kind of saying like,
(13:10):
we're going to do the chemotherapy and then we'll probably need to do some radiation after.
After and i think that was because of like the size of
the lump and how how quickly things were growing and
moving but then after i never ended up actually needing the radiation right
yeah so it was just it was just the chemotherapy and i forget the first time
(13:31):
was it like eight rounds altogether no i think it was six it was six but then
i had to make up the other one correct yeah Yeah.
So yeah, it was, it wasn't inpatient. It was, I just go to the infusion center,
for pretty much the whole day, every three weeks and get chemo all day long
(13:51):
and, and then come home and feel really cruddy for a few days or probably around a week.
And then right when you're starting your energy back and feeling back,
you get your appetite back and then it's like time to go back again and get more.
So remember the one thing was.
When she knew she was going to have to start chemo now again she was pregnant,
(14:13):
and there was a lot of hormones happening with that obviously to
grow the baby and i remember your biggest fear was i don't want to lose my hair
she was like i do not want to comb my hair put my fingers in my hair and watch
yeah my hair fall out in my hands yeah so the first time we made the decision
to shave her head yeah with that it and and let me touch on that for a second,
(14:36):
it just felt like it would be more depressing because I knew it was going to
happen and I knew it was going to be upsetting.
I think it's upsetting for anyone, but I feel like women, you know,
we have an attachment to our hair and it's part of almost, it's almost part of your personality.
And so I knew I was going to lose it and I didn't want to watch it happen.
(14:57):
Like there, there's so much that you lose control over when you are sick that
it's like the little Little things that you can have some control on.
You want to like attach to those things and be like, no, this is mine.
I'm going to do it my way. Yeah. So.
Yeah. So we shaved your head. Yep. The funny part.
Early on. Early on. Yeah. I mean, before your first round. And then you went
(15:20):
through four rounds of chemo about three months.
No, I went through two. It was two rounds of chemo before Aiden. Yeah.
And yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was two rounds. And they usually tell you at your second
round that your hair really starts to start moving, start falling out.
(15:42):
But because you were pregnant, none of that happened. We think.
That's what they thought. Yeah. So we were like, all right, you shaved your
head a good amount of time early and then your hair didn't fall out.
It didn't fall out. And then I was like, oh, my God, tell me that we literally
shaved my head and I'm not going to be one of those anomalies that doesn't lose any hair during this.
(16:02):
But after I had the baby it was almost immediate yeah it was gone yeah I had
had probably about an inch of hair at that time.
And I remember feeding Aiden and I was just holding him and I'm like,
what is this all over him?
Like I could not figure out what was like on his onesie.
And I was like, as I was trying to brush it off, I was seeing more and I was like, what is that?
(16:26):
And then I realized like I touched my head or something and I looked at my hand
and it looked like I had pepper all over my hand. And I was like, my God, that's my hair.
And then it was really hard. I got so upset.
It was like it was it just felt so traumatic because I had kind of got it in
my head like, oh, we shaved my head and now I'm fat and I've shaved like a buzz cut.
(16:50):
So I look like a fool, but got a lot of looks at grocery stores and stuff.
And then and then now I'm not even going to lose it. I'm just going to have
this stupid buzz cut forever.
But then it started falling out and just wasn't expecting it.
Yeah. So, yeah, it was really upsetting. But, yeah, so I ended up going shiny bald on that one, too.
But you have a beautiful head. Thank you. You get a lot of compliments about
(17:11):
how beautiful your head is. I did.
I do have a, you don't realize, you know, what your head looks like until you see what's under there.
Well, you've never seen my bald head yet. So I think the other like thing that
I always remember that kind of, and again, I think we have to look for things
that make us smile and laugh about this.
But after each round of chemo, Jess had to do a shot. Oh yeah.
(17:35):
Remember this shot? It was a big shot. It was like an expensive shot.
Now they do it in the hospital because remember this time I had to go back.
But we had to take it home and give it to her like, I don't know,
X amount of days later after her chemo. It was 24 hours after.
Yeah. So one time we, you know, you feel like a drug addict.
You're like giving her shots and I was doing it and giving it to her.
(17:58):
And I remember one time we had to go somewhere and we were at a wedding.
We were going to a wedding and we were in the parking lot getting ready to walk in.
All dressed up and we look at each other we're like
all right we got to give you this shot and we we're just
laughing in the parking lot acting like we
anybody could have walked by i think thought we were drug addicts
(18:20):
like shooting you up yeah except that it was going into the side of my arm but
yeah still it was like it was the whole thing was an experience it was a total
experience all right so that's kind of covers the first yeah that's kind of
first round it was really straightforward i was i i took really well to the
chemotherapy like i said i didn't have a scan in the first place.
But when I was able to and had a scan, everything was gone.
(18:42):
So that was why we didn't have to do radiation or really anything after that.
It was just kind of like we finished it up. It sucked.
And then it was over. Yeah. And that honestly, that whole time really was a blur to me.
Like I really couldn't explain much more detail about that because we had a
newborn. It was 12 years ago.
And after that, you just kind of block it out and want to move forward.
(19:04):
So I don't have a ton of memory of that time, but I do remember it being kind of easy.
Easy like it was you know it was an open shut case
and you know we went through the suck and
then it was over all right how about the second time
oh god the second time
was not so much the second time was traumatic yeah i i said last time you know
(19:29):
i couldn't have the same i i we both went into it assuming you know it's exactly
the same cancer just gonna have that you know easy six rounds of chemo again.
And the doctor was like, no, like this is, you can't, you can't have the same treatment twice ever.
And the second time around, it's called a salvage treatment.
(19:52):
And basically it's way more aggressive because, well, my cancer was way aggressive at that time.
It was really really aggressive stage four by
the time we found out and the salvage
treatment is already aggressive to begin with and so
(20:13):
when he's explaining it to us that it's going to be inpatient chemo and the
reason for that was because it's so intense and it's so time consuming like
i was getting chemotherapy around the clock basically for four days straight in the hospital
Yep. So it was intense.
Yeah. It was really intense. And then it would come home and feel horrible for
(20:38):
like a week, a week and a half maybe.
And then just like the other time, then you'd start getting your energy back
a little bit. You start feeling better.
And then boom, it's time to go back in for more. Yeah.
This time was definitely harder way harder
than the first time not just because of the time
(20:59):
away from home because the kids couldn't come
visit me right because they just weren't old enough
to to go it was it was
also during covid but that wasn't the
reason why they just don't like kids that are under 16 up
into the those inpatient rooms in the oncology little germ
carriers yes little germ carriers but we did
(21:20):
find different ways yeah yeah you would come
with the kids and i would come outside right and i'd have my ivy pole with me
and i'd be able to just kind of see everybody for a few minutes or you'd bring
me some food or something you were allowed to visit you weren't allowed to stay
there with me overnight right so that was always like a little sad too because,
(21:41):
it was just lonely and like you don't really talk to you don't even really talk to the people on the
floor either because and maybe if it wasn't during COVID maybe it would be a
different situation I don't know but I basically just had to stay in my room
the whole time yeah really the whole time like I ate slept played games when
(22:03):
you came there I would play games all in my hospital bed.
So kind of you had to do a stem cell transplant this time as well.
Right, that was after, yep. Yep.
And also, wait, before that, I want to touch on losing my hair the second time. Okay.
We did shave it again. Yep. But. With the kids. They had fun doing that. They did.
(22:25):
I don't know. Well, I don't know if they had fun. We were trying to take the
scary part of it out for them.
And we you know let them kind of
like take take turns with the buzzer to shave my hair
but i had a really like i like broke
down that time this time when we were shaving my head
it was just like i don't
(22:47):
know it was just way more emotional the second time around yeah
i was much sicker much more
sick at that time too so i think everything
was just kind of we waited it till after the first
round to do it yeah but then my my
treatment was so aggressive like i was not one
hair grew back until it was over like there
(23:09):
was my i was bald bald yeah yeah
you were bald bald i mean you were and like you said you were sick sick
i mean it was i could talk
for 20 minutes about kind of all the things leading
up to that but you know we had a we had talked
to the doctor and had a plan to take jessica in and
i think her check-in was i don't know it's supposed to
(23:29):
be 10 or 14 days later and i just start the first round because you have to
do like all these tests and stuff before you start chemo and i just watched
her over the course of like a three-day period just very very quickly visibly
change and she was like almost passing out she was stuttering hearing her words.
Like I could feel lumps. I was watching weight loss. Her color was gone.
(23:52):
And I worried about it, obviously.
But to make a long story short, there was, it was a Friday night.
And we had, I think we had gone on maybe a boat ride even just to try and like break it up a little bit.
And we came back and... Yeah, but what happened on that boat ride?
I was like sleeping on the floor.
Yeah, she was like basically passing out. And.
(24:13):
I remember laying in bed and it was like 10 o'clock at night and I literally
thought she was going to die that night. Like it had escalated that quickly.
Yeah. I remember you calling her nurse. Yeah. So I started to kind of like not
freak out. No, you started to freak out.
Well, I mean, not, not freak out in the way of not knowing what to do,
but definitely getting worried.
And I was like, so I called her nurse and I was like, honestly,
(24:35):
I'm scared that she's going to make, not going to make it through the night.
It is, it is escalated that quickly. I remember sitting next to you.
I can hear your voice in my head saying, I'm watching her die right now.
I'm that scared. I'm watching her die. And I didn't even realize that I wasn't
completing my sentences. I was getting confused.
(24:58):
It wasn't even correlating to me that it was that bad. It was bad.
But yeah, I've never seen you that worried. reach yeah
well i know you best i knew what was happening and
so i called and at 10 30 at night and
talked to the nurse and i was like i don't care what you say basically but
we're bringing her in which they fully supported they said yes absolutely
bring her in so we checked in the next morning for your first round at 7
(25:21):
a.m yep so it was about a week early yeah
but yeah they called in a major dose of
prednisone yep to get me through the night and
and then we checked in that next morning and that was
it and that first day of chemo this
was that first day they put in a pick line
in my arm because I hadn't even got my port placed yet
(25:43):
so they put a pick line in
my arm which was like this like pick line
team walks into your room like it's like
Dexter they like cover all of
you with like a plastic sheet and except
for like the inside like the biceps of my right
arm and like do this
(26:05):
pick line quote-unquote surgery like right there in my bed yeah it was like
it just freaked me out but they did that right away and then and then i was
taken down to have a like a spinal tap yep and then they put a little bit of
chemo into my spinal cord.
(26:25):
Because it was like, if it had gotten into your bone marrow,
which they hadn't known yet, if it had, then it could just be really detrimental.
So they were just kind of like precaution wise, like while we're in there,
like while we're doing the spinal, we're just going to like throw some chemo in there too.
Just a little shot. Just a little like sprinkle. What does Snoop Dogg say? I'm like paprika.
(26:47):
Just a little topper on the cocktail right there.
And then just started chemo. And then, yeah, that was it. All right.
So walk us through the stem cell.
Okay. So after all of those rounds, I think it was another five rounds.
Yep. It was like every three weeks. And after that, I got like two or three
(27:09):
weeks off, started to feel like so good, started to feel like normal again.
And then they had to start harvesting my stem cells. So I had an autogloss stem cell transplant,
which means it was my own stem cells that
were going to be it's almost like they they
take them out of your body and for like lack of like better
(27:30):
scientific words they kind of like spin them and like
just like extract the the
the cells out of them the good cells out of them and then
freeze them and then a month
later you get them put back in yeah so
i had to be on that was another thing and more shots at
home yep but i was giving them to myself this time
(27:51):
i had to give myself shots like in
my stomach a couple times a day and that was making my this is so bad that i
don't even remember but either my red or my white blood cells like super multiply
so that when we would go to harvest i would have more than we needed yeah so
i was giving myself those shots for weeks and.
(28:13):
And finally went in for the day to get my stem cells harvested.
And it was another like all day stay in the hospital, but no one could come in the room.
It was like a very sterile environment.
And I remember my dad came and he dropped me off at five o'clock in the morning.
And then I don't even know, did he come back home or did he wait there all day?
I don't remember. I don't remember, but he was, he was there when I came out.
(28:36):
So I was there all day. It was, it's almost like dialysis.
Like I was fine. I know I've literally just like watched shows on my iPad the
entire day, but it was just like a constant draw taking out. I had to have a separate.
So now at this point, my PICC line had gotten taken out of my arm.
My port had been placed, but then for the stem cell harvest and transplant,
(29:00):
I needed another port on the other side of my chest, which had three tubes coming out of it.
And that was just so like more things could be hooked up to me at a time.
So all day that like it came out and went into this other machine.
It was literally spinning next to me. And they were happy with the number they got.
(29:21):
And they put those babies on ice. And then I think it was like two or three weeks later.
Also, I had to be checked into the hospital. It was the day after Christmas
because we talked my doctor into letting me have Christmas at home.
And he was like, okay, but not New Year's.
So they let me have christmas so the day
after we i had to say goodbye to everybody that
(29:44):
was really hard because we knew i was going to be gone for three to
four weeks in the hospital and again in
a very sterile environment yeah your whole floor was locked down it was a bubble
yeah i couldn't go outside this time i couldn't walk the i could walk my hall
but that was it every room was pressurized yep kept separate from all the other
rooms it was yeah i mean it was completely locked down.
(30:08):
I had to go through like an air chamber to even come visit with locked doors
to be sterilized. It was, it was wild. It was wild. It was kind of cool.
And then, so before I get those stem cells back, I have to have 10 days of the
most aggressive chemotherapy, like known to man.
(30:28):
It's 10 days straight, almost 24 hours a day of chemo. And the whole point of
that was to take my immune system to zero, right?
And it was going to make me as sick as I was ever going to be.
And it did. It was horrible. But it brought my immune system down to nothing.
You had a negative white blood cell count. Yeah. And then that's like,
(30:52):
then like the next day after that last day.
Infusion the next day was when i was having the
transplant and that was on january 2nd and they brought
my stem cells in on ice it was like a whole
production it was very cool i had to
like chew on ice and ice pops the whole time
remember because it was like you could get mouth sores like
(31:15):
while you were getting the transplant it all happened
like right in my hotel room i wish it was a hotel room right
in my hospital room took i forget a
couple hours and that is considered day
one of your new life yeah because considered
one day old because when you say that they wipe out your
immunity they they wipe you out to
(31:36):
zero which means every single
vaccination you had ever had in your life wild
it's chicken pox all the vaccinations anything that
a newborn child gets you had zero of them again so technically
our children was gone on yeah technically our children
were more vaccinated than you because you had zero it
was completely wiped out yeah they had better immune systems and yeah
(31:58):
that's for sure everyone did yeah it was after that
you had to be put on and i don't want any vax feedback
on this but i had to be put on the same schedule as an infant and get all of
my vaccinations again and which is why we had to isolate them yes so we isolated
for about six months yep even when i Once I got out of the hospital,
(32:20):
which was in isolation there,
I had to really isolate at home because I didn't have an immune system.
I mean, I could catch a cold and it could literally kill me. Yeah.
I mean, I worked for an amazing company that let me work from home for six months.
Yeah, they were amazing. Thank goodness, right? Yep.
And that was it. I just stayed in. You really couldn't even go outside because
dust even was a potential killer.
(32:43):
Yeah. Any allergen. Yeah. Literally couldn't.
Remember the way he explained it? I literally couldn't go outside because if like.
A dog had an infection or something and breathed in the air and the wind blew
and I got any of that like through the wind. It was wild.
Yeah, it was. So yeah, that was, I definitely went a little stir crazy because
(33:07):
that was when I turned 40.
It was. So yeah, that was the end of that and everything's been honky dory since.
We're good. Yeah, everything's been really good. All right.
So that's a lot of detail about the treatment, which I think,
you know, again, you got a lot of questions about that and kind of what you went through.
Yeah. And you know what, actually, too, if people want to kind of see a visual
(33:30):
of that whole thing, Selma Blair, she has MS, but she had a stem cell transplant,
the same exact one that I had. She got the same chemo and everything.
She didn't have all the chemo beforehand, but she got the same stuff that I
got in the hospital and there is a documentary on her experience.
I forget what it's on and I forget what it's called, but you could just search
(33:51):
her name and find it. And it is, it's so good.
She seems like such a lovable, wonderful human, but she has cameras in,
in her hospital room showing that whole thing that I just explained.
Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, I could, I was allowed to be there when they put your
stem cells back in. and I remember they brought those bags in and you could
(34:13):
actually visibly see the cells.
It almost looked like a tube of like licorice with like white round cells going
back into you. It was the coolest thing.
I was like, that's your life going back in. I know, and you know what's another
interesting fact about that too?
The first time I had cancer, the stem cell transplant and the CAR T-C cell therapy.
(34:36):
Were in clinical trials right still yeah so
it was cool to kind of come full circle
and even though it was a bad experience that like
something that was just kind of in the works the last
time i was sick was now like being being given as like a normal line of treatment
(34:56):
yep so that was really cool too so you're really just two and a half years old
which is gonna explain a lot for how how you act sometimes and like in future
episodes about how young oh okay okay okay,
all right so i think you know speaking of two and a half years tomorrow i have
my very first haircut and hair appointment because i have like i have not i let anyone touch my hair.
(35:24):
Since growing it back so yeah i'm
excited tomorrow i'm gonna get my first haircut as a two-year-old oh
congrats thanks you're gonna keep your hair in a baggie i should you should
really freak out your stylist she understands put a put a lock in this baggie
for me i'm just getting the ends cut off don't get it twisted all right so you know i think,
(35:47):
just from the amount of time we have left let's talk a little bit about how
the kids handled it right because i think we really gave everybody a pretty
good indication of how hard it was
physically what you went through right and we haven't talked too much about emotional and,
you know how we stayed optimistic and how we got through it
(36:08):
and again that's probably a whole episode in and of itself but what was it like
with the kids this time i think right that was really hard on not just them
but you and me yeah i think just
telling them yeah was Was probably one of the worst days of our lives.
So how long did we, we discussed it for about a week and made that decision? Yeah.
(36:34):
I don't even think it was that long. I think we wanted to wait a little bit
and then, and then I was like getting so sick.
Right. That there was really not going to be like any hiding it.
And we knew I was going to have to be an inpatient. So we were going to have to tell them.
And at this time, our youngest was in kindergarten and our oldest was in second grade. So they're not.
(36:55):
You know, big kids, but they're old enough to understand something.
Right. And they had seen pictures of me from when I was pregnant with Aiden
and kind of told them our story and stuff, but you don't really get it. Right.
And so we took the kids out on the deck and we're just kind of like,
(37:17):
you know, you know how mom has been not really feeling great lately.
And you know she's having a hard time walking and
her hip and she's been really sick and they're like
yeah and we're like well you know
we went we've been going a lot of doctors and and trying to figure things out
and the good news is we finally figured out what's going on right and now we
(37:39):
know and now she can start getting better and they were like oh cool good and
then we were They're like,
so mom has cancer again.
And our two kids are very different, right?
They're only 17 months apart, but they are very different. Polar opposites.
(38:01):
Polar, especially emotionally, that kind of stuff.
So my younger one, Mason, who is attached to my hip still now,
I mean, he is my protector.
Yes. he immediately started crying, got very upset,
which we were trying not to get upset because we didn't want to scare them,
(38:21):
which obviously made us really upset when he was to see him that way,
just sobbing and so scared.
And then Aiden, our oldest, needs to process things on his own, first of all.
And second of all, he doesn't like to show a lot of emotion. So- He...
Literally got the words out. He said, is that it? Is that everything you have
(38:45):
to tell us? And I said, yeah.
And he got up and walked away and went up to his room.
And my heart just crumbled right there because I was just like, does he not care?
Is he upset? Is he up there crying? Is he just up there not really caring about what happened?
It was really hard. It was really, really hard.
And he did care, obviously, of course. He really did care. But he's just different.
(39:10):
He's just had to process it on his own first and then he got angry
he did get really angry he got really mad he
had to you know come to terms with it on himself and then come around to it
and then he was okay yeah you know and we immediately got them into like some
play therapy through through the cancer institute just so that it was just like
(39:33):
they went together and they could you know,
she obviously knew how to talk to them to let them know what was going on with me,
but also to let them have a safe space to let out what they were thinking.
And, you know, maybe they had the wrong ideas of like what was going to happen.
And she could kind of, you know, she knew how to kind of like tiptoe around
(39:55):
it to tell them the truth, but also make it kid friendly, which was really helpful. Cool.
And then because it was impatient, that was a whole nother conversation was
letting them know because they are never away from me.
I've been a stay-at-home mom since they were born. Born.
So I'm always here when they get home from school.
(40:17):
I'm always taking them to school. I'm always making every meal.
I'm always here at bedtime.
So that was another really hard conversation and really hard for them to get through.
Grew but luckily we had matt's mom and
dad come stay with us for quite a
while right and that was that was good because it was it was
(40:38):
they were there to help us but they were a really great distraction
because the kids just love being around their nana and papa so that kind of
just like took their mind off of things when i wasn't there yeah yeah it was
a lot of facetiming yes a lot of facetime and we would again like you said earlier
we would make a lot of effort to just Just bring them to the hospital,
(40:59):
even if it was for 10 minutes outside to see you.
But, you know, I think the tough part for me was I would come home and they
would want a lot of, they'd have a lot of questions. Yeah. Right.
And when she was staying overnight and it was, of course, it wasn't deep questions,
but it was things about how is she doing?
You know, how is, how does she feel?
Is mom going to die? Right. Like I got that question quite a bit from Mason.
(41:23):
And I mean, it's still like brings me to teary-eyed, like thinking about it,
like how to answer that question to him without, because we never want,
we never have and never want to lie to our kids.
And so we've always wanted to be very open with them and say,
it's a slim possibility that she will.
(41:45):
But there is a chance that if something ever went wrong, that it could happen.
Because I think the worst thing we could ever do is say there's no chance and
then something happened.
So we were very open with that from the get-go. But also very positive.
Very positive. She's in the best hands. And she's getting the treatment she
needs. We hired the best doctor in Charlotte, right? Like very over the top
with those sorts of things.
(42:07):
We were so lucky that we moved here because now we have the best team in place. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, we, gosh, I mean, it was, it still hurts.
I mean, it still hurts years later to think about that. And how did we get through
it? Gosh, I mean, that was a question.
That's a, I don't know. I don't know how we got through it.
(42:28):
I don't know, but we did, they did, and everybody's better for it.
Yeah. You know, Mason's always been a very, as Jess said,
emotional and thoughtful kid and a caretaker and sensitive
and even the last couple years after going
through that i mean he is a hundred percent even more yeah
(42:49):
if your feet are cold like oh yeah right i'll
give me a blanket if you stand up from the couch i'm gonna put a blanket down
to keep your spot warm or he sits in my spot yeah to keep it warm yeah so he's
he's gonna have a uh lucky woman or oh yeah or i shouldn't say woman in today's
day and age right he's gonna have a lucky partner sometime in his Yeah, he really is.
(43:10):
Like, he's such an amazing kid. Yeah. And so is Aiden.
He just shows his, he just, he's just in different ways. Yeah,
just in different ways. But yeah, Mason is amazing.
That kid, he's the most empathetic kid I've ever. Yeah, for sure.
All right, so I don't know if we're gonna have too much time to really get into
things like, right, how we stay so optimistic.
(43:34):
Again, I think that's probably an episode in itself, but.
I can touch on it real quick, actually, because this is the same,
I've been asked this question so many times, and it's a choice.
Yeah. Right? It was a choice. It was a choice to be optimistic.
It was a choice to be positive it was a choice to put a smile on my face it was a choice to,
(43:56):
make videos and and post my
journey online and send the kids silly videos of
me in the hospital and to keep exercising and
to keep i would keep up on my nutrition all those things because being optimistic
is what made me take steps every single day yeah you know because if i If I
(44:20):
allowed myself to get into that hole of,
oh my God, what is life right now?
You can't climb out of it. You get too deep into that and there's no coming out of it.
And so to stay optimistic was, you know, when you don't have a choice,
you do what you have to do and you just do it. And you don't think about it until after.
(44:42):
Right. And that's just what we had to do. And so we did it. Yeah. Yeah.
So that's really it. I mean, when people ask me about that, right? I mean, that's it.
I made a choice and that was what I did. Now after post-treatment,
people don't really talk about how hard that is.
Coming out of treatment and out of like a, really out of any like traumatic
situation, sometimes you're just like on autopilot getting through it and then
(45:06):
it's over and you're like, wait, what just happened?
Right. And then it's like, you need help after that. That's when you really need a lot of support.
Yeah. Yeah. So what if you had to think about maybe one or two things that you
learned most about yourself going through all the suck, right?
(45:29):
And all the hell and just your outlook on life that we learned a lot about in the last episode.
What are a couple things that you just never knew about yourself that you learned?
I don't know that I never knew about myself, but the very first one is life is short.
(45:50):
Yeah. So short. Things can change on a dime so quickly.
You don't see them coming. And if you aren't.
Being the person that you want to be, living that life that you want to live
every single day with intention and being genuine and telling the people you
(46:10):
love that you love them and being a good person and basically feeling like you
were given another chance.
So you need to be better and you need to do better and you need to give more.
That's like, it can all be gone in a second.
(46:31):
So that's definitely like the first and foremost.
Second, I would say that your attitude is like your gratitude, basically.
And what I mean by that is if you keep a good attitude and you have a positive
outlook and you do things that are in a positive light, then.
(46:56):
The gratitude to you will be the same.
Does that make sense? If you put out the good, then you're going to get the good. Yeah.
Throw it into the universe, let it come back. Yep, let it come back to you because
that's what it's all about.
I mean, if I can't help anybody else from what I've been through,
(47:19):
then why was I put here to go through this?
And not just about being sick. You know, it's being optimistic and having hope
and everything after you watch a child die,
you know, and that was like, like, take me with you. Like, that was horrible.
(47:40):
Losing your mom unexpectedly, like, all of those things are terrible, horrible things.
But if we can't, like, kind of like the question, the other question of how
do you live through grief and not let it, like, just take a hold of your life?
It's like you have to make a decision.
You have to make a decision to move forward and know that you have the memories
(48:03):
of those people and everything that came with them and those aren't going anywhere
just because the person isn't physically there.
It doesn't mean that they are not still a part of you and a part of your life.
And if you want to continue to live, then you have to make the decision to.
(48:24):
To live, to do that. Yeah. Okay. That's good. What about you?
Tell me something you learned.
Well, I think it kind of was going to actually yield into maybe my next question
was, I think the first time we went through this together, I didn't necessarily
know exactly how to support you, right? Like I'm a very optimistic.
(48:46):
Well, you're a fixer. I'm a fixer. I want to fix problems. That's what I do
for work, right? I want to solve problems. I want to come up with solutions.
And I couldn't fix this. And so I didn't necessarily know exactly what you needed.
And maybe what I was giving you wasn't exactly what you needed from your spouse in some ways.
Some ways it was, some ways it wasn't. So I learned after we had a lot of conversations
(49:08):
after the first time, I learned, I think, how to better support you that second time.
And it was a whole different experience. And I gave you,
I think, what you needed because I had learned so from
your view right i think a lot of your followers and
people that listen and just other people you
you talk to are going through something like this what would
(49:30):
you tell somebody going through this to talk
to their spouse about it's funny i actually just talked to a friend of mine
who he just went through cancer and chemo and i was kind of coaching him through
it before he went into treatment and I asked to speak to his fiance and I said to her,
(49:50):
things are going to change drastically when he starts treatment.
You're going to become his caretaker. If I can give you the biggest piece of
advice that we learned through that is that you still need to be his partner,
not just his caretaker.
He doesn't want you to be his nurse and nothing else.
(50:14):
I understand that you're going to want to take care of him as best you can and
that's going to be your main focus but you can't forget that we also have a
marriage that we also have a relationship that needs to be tended to also and
I think that was a big lesson for us it was yeah.
Yeah it was because I go into fixing mode yeah and go into and you mentioned
it earlier right I get home from work especially that first time right I get
(50:37):
home from work and have kids to take care of have house duties to take care
of right whatever it was and.
What do you need? Right. And it was always those questions. And I remember like
I would come in and be like, what do you need?
And I would, I would do it and I would handle it and I would bring it.
And then I would collapse, right.
From exhaustion, but not be there for the emotional, the kind of person that
(50:58):
like he would set timers for when I needed to take certain medication,
medication, he knew when I had to eat, he knew that I wasn't getting enough water.
So it was like constantly like, you need to be drinking more of that.
You didn't, since I walked out of here last time, you didn't drink much.
Like you need to take this medicine right now. You need to, dah,
dah, And I would get so frustrated because I'm like, I'm not just like,
(51:18):
I'm not just your patient.
Like, I need you. I need you right now.
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it was I spent a lot of time reflecting on that,
not just because of what we went through.
But, A, I think it helped strengthen our marriage even before the second time.
Right. Just for me to think about things a little bit differently from that aspect. Yeah.
(51:41):
And then when you went through the second time like i
consciously focused on treating you
like a human right and like my wife and like let's play games and let's not
set timers and yeah you know you're an adult and you can i can write it out
for you and you can take your medicine or whatever is needed right so no it
(52:01):
was just a different nature of all those things but it was also like Like,
you know, I also need you to, like,
take a shower with me because I can't stand up this long.
Right. I need you to hold me up. Yeah. And then after that, like,
I need you to dry me off and then, like, lay with me for a minute.
Yeah. And, like, you know, I know you just had to take care of me,
(52:24):
but now I also need, like, the emotional support of my husband, too.
So it was a lot of that. And it was different this time. And you're amazing.
I mean, you really are, like, a born caretaker.
And I think that's where Mason gets it from. Like you really are just like a nurturer.
And sometimes it's robotic because you just want to get stuff done and fix it.
(52:47):
But then I feel like you understand now more that there is a whole other emotional side to it, too.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, from the optimistic side, right?
Again, we had a choice that we could either let this rip us apart and stuff
like this does to a lot of couples.
Or we can get through it and work through it. And I don't know.
(53:10):
What do you think? Is our marriage stronger now? Now, the last,
especially the last, even several years, probably than ever.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, this is, yeah, this will make or break you.
Yeah, it will. Yeah. And then, especially going through it twice,
then you're really like, okay, life really is short. Yep. Like, we need to slow down.
We need to enjoy more. And, you know, like we touched on last week,
(53:31):
too, it's just like our lifestyle has changed so much.
And I think we're just so much happier now. Yeah. No, I agree.
Awesome. Well, hopefully that gave everybody a little bit more,
you know, insight into some of the questions that have been asked and.
Yeah. And maybe one day it would be good to do an episode on caretaking and
just because even friends, family, spouses, you sometimes when somebody doesn't
(53:55):
know what to say to somebody, they just don't say anything at all.
And then you end up feeling like all your friends are like ghosting you because,
and they, they just don't know how to react or what to say or what to do.
And they feel awkward, I think.
And sometimes it's just like, you know.
Here's a few things that you could just do. Just be there. Just sit with someone.
(54:17):
Just talk. Just pick up the phone. Just give them company.
That's what people need. And it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to be a caretaker.
It's hard to be a friend of. It's hard.
It's not as hard as going through chemo twice. Well, you wouldn't know.
Hopefully, I won't have to. Probably not. Okay. Well, I hope we answered as much as we could.
(54:40):
Like I said, I always want your feedback and your questions,
your comments, all of those things, because I want to talk about what you want to hear about.
And yes, Matt can be here whenever, wherever.
I know everybody loves him. I also just wanted to say, you know,
thank you again for all the downloads and the listens.
(55:02):
If you feel like somebody you know would benefit from hearing any of our conversations,
please share the episodes, share the show, subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, everywhere, Amazon Music,
(55:23):
anywhere you can get your podcasts.
So like, follow, comment. I would love all that. Also visit and follow the Instagram page.
It is outloudanduncorkedpod is the handle.
And my personal handle is jesslrush, Jess with one.
(55:46):
Yeah, so follow us everywhere and yeah, enjoy the show. I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks, babe. Thank you. All right. We'll talk to you soon. All right. Bye.
Welcome to Out Loud and Uncorked, where we pop the top on intriguing people
and their unique experiences.
You can expect some real unfiltered truths and plenty of laughs.
So grab a drink, sit back and join me as I uncork some amazing stories.
The views, information or opinions expressed during this podcast are solely
(00:24):
those of the the individual involved and do not necessarily represent the show.
The content does not constitute professional advice or services and is not intended
to treat, diagnose, or cure any medical conditions.
Out Loud and Uncorked and its hosts are not responsible for the accuracy of
any information contained in the podcast series. Please take care when listening.
(00:45):
Everybody, welcome to Out Loud and Uncorked. I am your host, Jess Rush.
Welcome back. So in last week's episode, we talked about me and my health,
my past, Matt and I, you know, our story, and the listeners have spoken.
(01:06):
And first of all, I really want to thank everyone, anyone that downloaded,
that listened to the episode.
It was an incredible amount of listeners, and I'm...
Like humbled by it. It was really, really amazing.
And with that being said, I received also a ton of feedback and lots of questions,
which I love because that just means that people are engaged and that's pretty amazing to me.
(01:31):
So I received a lot of similar questions, which we'll get into today.
But the elephant in the room, or I should say husband in the room,
is that people love of Matt Rush and lots of comments on his deep radio voice
and his charming personality,
(01:52):
both of which I love, of course. So I get it.
So I am all about giving the people what they want.
So without further ado, welcome back, babe.
Well, hello. Now you're even. Now I have to like not focus on the deep radio voice.
What do you mean not focus on it? People love it. All right.
(02:15):
Okay. Well. It's pretty impressive.
I think I've always said that you sound a lot like Will Arnett.
Yeah. I get that a lot. Yeah. People at work say that a lot. Yeah.
Because you even kind of, I feel like people have even said that you look like him a little bit.
I've heard that. Yeah. But you do have like that good deep like.
Rasp. I'm Batman voice. words good to
(02:39):
know i'm glad that i was born with such an amazing
voice that i cannot control okay thanks thank
you linda and dave yep are you surprised
with the amount of messages that i got about you i am
because this was never really on my
agenda right this wasn't i was here to support you in this endeavor and but
(03:02):
you know i think yeah we obviously know each other best and And if I can help
give the people what they want by asking you questions,
I know it's my picture going up on the, on the.
The cover next? Well, my picture is not even on the cover. No, that's true.
(03:22):
But sure, we'll put you up there. Okay, all right. And I'm also thinking,
and let me know if I'm off here, but I think your experience in interviewing
potential candidates at work has really made you a perfect co-host for a podcast. Okay.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's kind of, I mean, my job is about leadership and about people, right?
(03:44):
So I do lead a large team and I would say the bulk of my job is communication and talking.
And yeah, I've interviewed, I don't know, thousands of people,
right, throughout my career. Including me.
We learned that last time. And so yeah, you know, I have to communicate in all
(04:05):
aspects of my job, right?
Whether it's my team and my, you know,
employees or whether it's our executive team at
corporate and so yeah i have to i
have to have that ability to really try to chat with people
so sure i think that maybe helps a little bit you got it well
thank you i know and sometimes you come home and you're like exhausted from
(04:25):
talking and i never really understood it until i started doing like stuff like
this and it is exhausting to talk like just to talk and just to be because you
have to be on too it's not just talking like you're you know you're face to
face you're not You're not working from home. You're not doing zoom interviews and.
(04:45):
Meetings and work calls and stuff you know at home you're you're
like in the in the grind in the
grind there in front of people like you got to be on all the time yeah
i mean i think it's i think the energy comes from
having to really pay attention and listen
right and that's something that i learned a long
time ago and have really had to work on over the past you know really the first
(05:08):
i guess 10 years of my life and my career was you can i can give everybody an
opinion right but if i I want to really listen and have a conversation that
I'm getting my point across. The other person's getting their point across.
You have to listen. And that takes a lot of energy to your point.
So yeah, sometimes like a moment, I'm just like, everybody shut up.
(05:31):
Which is hard when you come into a house with two boys, a dog,
everybody that wants your attention. Yeah, for sure.
Well, with all that being said, I am so happy to have you back.
I love having you here, of course because you're the person
i feel most safe and comfortable
with and always have so just
having you across from me makes it fun and easy awesome yeah i love it too you
(05:55):
feel the same way i do i do it's it's it's fun like i said i didn't you know
know that this was going to be the path but it's always a great opportunity
to talk to you so yeah yeah and i yeah obviously i'm enamored with you.
So I want to help share the story of you with other people because your story is inspiring.
(06:16):
And if it helps other people, that's the goal of this.
Well, thank you. And I would love to have you join me on this as much as possible.
Fantastic. Okay, great. So we are definitely, we definitely have lots of ideas
with more content with us together.
So more stuff for us to talk about in the future. Obviously,
(06:36):
we'd love the feedback. We'd love to hear what people want to hear about too.
But let's get into today's show. Because like I said earlier,
I was asked a lot of questions after last week, and I thought we could answer
some of those today. Sure.
All right. So some of the things that were asked most were a few questions I kind of picked out.
(06:58):
One of them is, let's see, could you go more in depth about your treatment and transplant? planned.
Another one is, how did you guys stay optimistic during all of those traumatic experiences?
And what did you learn in those times about yourselves, your marriage, life?
(07:19):
That could be like a whole day.
We learned a lot. And then...
I got a lot of questions like, do you have PTSD? How do you not have PTSD?
How do you live with so much grief without allowing it to have a hold on your
life or being able to move forward?
(07:41):
That's a good one. Yep. And how did your kids handle you being sick?
That's a really good one too. That's a great one. They're all really great questions.
So we've really learned so much over the past 12 years.
So maybe our struggles could really help someone else going through something
similar and that's really what it's all about yeah you know i think i get it
(08:05):
at work a lot a lot of my colleagues,
you know they'll they know the story and they've heard different
parts of it and they ask
me too right they're like how did how'd you guys get through
that that's probably the number one question right how'd you get through it
the details we could answer i have no
idea i don't know either but the the details right
(08:25):
that's what people want to know about because most people
probably know somebody that's gone through a
illness or a sickness or maybe not
cancer but something i mean cancer has touched
so many people yeah so i that's
understandable and i think people are curious too and
it's funny because even since the
(08:46):
first time the second time like
anything thing having to do with me and I can't speak
on you know for everyone that has gone through similar experiences
but people are always like when they
want to ask me a question about it or like want to
know more about it they're always like do you mind talking about it like is
it okay if I bring it up so I'm always like of course like it's a big part of
(09:10):
my life and it's something that I'm never going to stop thinking about it's
something that like I'm gonna always have to be on top of,
especially knowing that 10 years later it can come back.
So it's never, I'm never, I'm always wide open to talk about any of it, all of it.
(09:31):
I think that's part of what really is pushing me to want to be a patient mentor, just because I know.
Sometimes you just have these questions or things you wanna get out and you
want somebody that understands.
Exactly kind of what you're going through to to be able to be an ear or give you some advice.
(09:55):
And that could be really hard when you're going through something like that
it's very lonely yeah i think what made it possible for us to get through it
and we're kind of getting further down right but i i think i mentioned it last
time i didn't have experience with any of this stuff I did. You did.
And I didn't, we never talked about it before it all happened.
(10:18):
So I didn't know, right? When we did get the news, I didn't know what to ask.
I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to be.
I didn't know any of it. So I think a lot of, I don't know, call it social media
and just a different world we all live in now.
A lot of people see other individuals going through that.
And I think people are thinking more now about, wow, what would I do if my spouse, friend, child...
(10:41):
Ever went through something how would i respond and that i
think that's why people are curious yeah i agree and i'm okay
with that yeah me too if i can help somebody with that too
yeah it's it's important yeah because being the caretaker
oh is like a whole i mean we could make another episode just on that yeah because
being the patient is one thing being the caretaker is a whole another beast
(11:02):
yes right because you were the caretaker for me you still had to be dead You still had to go to work.
You still had to run the household.
You still had to do everything else in your normal life and then take care of me on top of it.
(11:22):
And you're also used to me taking care of kind of everything here while you're
taking care of everything at work.
So it was a lot of things all in one. Well, yeah, and it's all the physical,
quote unquote, things that you're taking care of with chores and things like that.
But it's the emotional side too, right? And thinking about how to take care
(11:45):
of your emotional state and keep you positive, but...
Realistic and how i handle those emotions and how i'm displaying my emotions
i mean that's a whole separate yeah piece that's taxing caretakers don't get
enough credit yeah for sure i'll take a medal okay the olympics just i know
(12:06):
you would take all the credit.
No not by any means all right so i guess right so the question is about your
treatment and And we talked very briefly about it last time.
You know, your first treatment was pretty standard.
Yeah, pretty straightforward. Yeah, pretty straightforward. I mean,
(12:26):
there were some like weird little nuances that you had to go through.
Well, because I was pregnant mostly. Right. So couldn't do specific,
I think last time you said like scans and things that you weren't allowed to do.
And a couple, I think I mentioned last time, there was a couple of drugs that
could possibly cross the placenta.
So we left those off. But I was listening back to it and realized that I never
(12:49):
really kind of said that I did get those again.
I had to be caught up on it after.
It wasn't just like, oh, we can leave these off.
It was a whole, it's a whole regimen. So yeah, the first time was just chemotherapy.
And I remember in the beginning, our doctor was kind of saying like,
(13:10):
we're going to do the chemotherapy and then we'll probably need to do some radiation after.
After and i think that was because of like the size of
the lump and how how quickly things were growing and
moving but then after i never ended up actually needing the radiation right
yeah so it was just it was just the chemotherapy and i forget the first time
(13:31):
was it like eight rounds altogether no i think it was six it was six but then
i had to make up the other one correct yeah Yeah.
So yeah, it was, it wasn't inpatient. It was, I just go to the infusion center,
for pretty much the whole day, every three weeks and get chemo all day long
(13:51):
and, and then come home and feel really cruddy for a few days or probably around a week.
And then right when you're starting your energy back and feeling back,
you get your appetite back and then it's like time to go back again and get more.
So remember the one thing was.
When she knew she was going to have to start chemo now again she was pregnant,
(14:13):
and there was a lot of hormones happening with that obviously to
grow the baby and i remember your biggest fear was i don't want to lose my hair
she was like i do not want to comb my hair put my fingers in my hair and watch
yeah my hair fall out in my hands yeah so the first time we made the decision
to shave her head yeah with that it and and let me touch on that for a second,
(14:36):
it just felt like it would be more depressing because I knew it was going to
happen and I knew it was going to be upsetting.
I think it's upsetting for anyone, but I feel like women, you know,
we have an attachment to our hair and it's part of almost, it's almost part of your personality.
And so I knew I was going to lose it and I didn't want to watch it happen.
(14:57):
Like there, there's so much that you lose control over when you are sick that
it's like the little Little things that you can have some control on.
You want to like attach to those things and be like, no, this is mine.
I'm going to do it my way. Yeah. So.
Yeah. So we shaved your head. Yep. The funny part.
Early on. Early on. Yeah. I mean, before your first round. And then you went
(15:20):
through four rounds of chemo about three months.
No, I went through two. It was two rounds of chemo before Aiden. Yeah.
And yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was two rounds. And they usually tell you at your second
round that your hair really starts to start moving, start falling out.
(15:42):
But because you were pregnant, none of that happened. We think.
That's what they thought. Yeah. So we were like, all right, you shaved your
head a good amount of time early and then your hair didn't fall out.
It didn't fall out. And then I was like, oh, my God, tell me that we literally
shaved my head and I'm not going to be one of those anomalies that doesn't lose any hair during this.
(16:02):
But after I had the baby it was almost immediate yeah it was gone yeah I had
had probably about an inch of hair at that time.
And I remember feeding Aiden and I was just holding him and I'm like,
what is this all over him?
Like I could not figure out what was like on his onesie.
And I was like, as I was trying to brush it off, I was seeing more and I was like, what is that?
(16:26):
And then I realized like I touched my head or something and I looked at my hand
and it looked like I had pepper all over my hand. And I was like, my God, that's my hair.
And then it was really hard. I got so upset.
It was like it was it just felt so traumatic because I had kind of got it in
my head like, oh, we shaved my head and now I'm fat and I've shaved like a buzz cut.
(16:50):
So I look like a fool, but got a lot of looks at grocery stores and stuff.
And then and then now I'm not even going to lose it. I'm just going to have
this stupid buzz cut forever.
But then it started falling out and just wasn't expecting it.
Yeah. So, yeah, it was really upsetting. But, yeah, so I ended up going shiny bald on that one, too.
But you have a beautiful head. Thank you. You get a lot of compliments about
(17:11):
how beautiful your head is. I did.
I do have a, you don't realize, you know, what your head looks like until you see what's under there.
Well, you've never seen my bald head yet. So I think the other like thing that
I always remember that kind of, and again, I think we have to look for things
that make us smile and laugh about this.
But after each round of chemo, Jess had to do a shot. Oh yeah.
(17:35):
Remember this shot? It was a big shot. It was like an expensive shot.
Now they do it in the hospital because remember this time I had to go back.
But we had to take it home and give it to her like, I don't know,
X amount of days later after her chemo. It was 24 hours after.
Yeah. So one time we, you know, you feel like a drug addict.
You're like giving her shots and I was doing it and giving it to her.
(17:58):
And I remember one time we had to go somewhere and we were at a wedding.
We were going to a wedding and we were in the parking lot getting ready to walk in.
All dressed up and we look at each other we're like
all right we got to give you this shot and we we're just
laughing in the parking lot acting like we
anybody could have walked by i think thought we were drug addicts
(18:20):
like shooting you up yeah except that it was going into the side of my arm but
yeah still it was like it was the whole thing was an experience it was a total
experience all right so that's kind of covers the first yeah that's kind of
first round it was really straightforward i was i i took really well to the
chemotherapy like i said i didn't have a scan in the first place.
But when I was able to and had a scan, everything was gone.
(18:42):
So that was why we didn't have to do radiation or really anything after that.
It was just kind of like we finished it up. It sucked.
And then it was over. Yeah. And that honestly, that whole time really was a blur to me.
Like I really couldn't explain much more detail about that because we had a
newborn. It was 12 years ago.
And after that, you just kind of block it out and want to move forward.
(19:04):
So I don't have a ton of memory of that time, but I do remember it being kind of easy.
Easy like it was you know it was an open shut case
and you know we went through the suck and
then it was over all right how about the second time
oh god the second time
was not so much the second time was traumatic yeah i i said last time you know
(19:29):
i couldn't have the same i i we both went into it assuming you know it's exactly
the same cancer just gonna have that you know easy six rounds of chemo again.
And the doctor was like, no, like this is, you can't, you can't have the same treatment twice ever.
And the second time around, it's called a salvage treatment.
(19:52):
And basically it's way more aggressive because, well, my cancer was way aggressive at that time.
It was really really aggressive stage four by
the time we found out and the salvage
treatment is already aggressive to begin with and so
(20:13):
when he's explaining it to us that it's going to be inpatient chemo and the
reason for that was because it's so intense and it's so time consuming like
i was getting chemotherapy around the clock basically for four days straight in the hospital
Yep. So it was intense.
Yeah. It was really intense. And then it would come home and feel horrible for
(20:38):
like a week, a week and a half maybe.
And then just like the other time, then you'd start getting your energy back
a little bit. You start feeling better.
And then boom, it's time to go back in for more. Yeah.
This time was definitely harder way harder
than the first time not just because of the time
(20:59):
away from home because the kids couldn't come
visit me right because they just weren't old enough
to to go it was it was
also during covid but that wasn't the
reason why they just don't like kids that are under 16 up
into the those inpatient rooms in the oncology little germ
carriers yes little germ carriers but we did
(21:20):
find different ways yeah yeah you would come
with the kids and i would come outside right and i'd have my ivy pole with me
and i'd be able to just kind of see everybody for a few minutes or you'd bring
me some food or something you were allowed to visit you weren't allowed to stay
there with me overnight right so that was always like a little sad too because,
(21:41):
it was just lonely and like you don't really talk to you don't even really talk to the people on the
floor either because and maybe if it wasn't during COVID maybe it would be a
different situation I don't know but I basically just had to stay in my room
the whole time yeah really the whole time like I ate slept played games when
(22:03):
you came there I would play games all in my hospital bed.
So kind of you had to do a stem cell transplant this time as well.
Right, that was after, yep. Yep.
And also, wait, before that, I want to touch on losing my hair the second time. Okay.
We did shave it again. Yep. But. With the kids. They had fun doing that. They did.
(22:25):
I don't know. Well, I don't know if they had fun. We were trying to take the
scary part of it out for them.
And we you know let them kind of
like take take turns with the buzzer to shave my hair
but i had a really like i like broke
down that time this time when we were shaving my head
it was just like i don't
(22:47):
know it was just way more emotional the second time around yeah
i was much sicker much more
sick at that time too so i think everything
was just kind of we waited it till after the first
round to do it yeah but then my my
treatment was so aggressive like i was not one
hair grew back until it was over like there
(23:09):
was my i was bald bald yeah yeah
you were bald bald i mean you were and like you said you were sick sick
i mean it was i could talk
for 20 minutes about kind of all the things leading
up to that but you know we had a we had talked
to the doctor and had a plan to take jessica in and
i think her check-in was i don't know it's supposed to
(23:29):
be 10 or 14 days later and i just start the first round because you have to
do like all these tests and stuff before you start chemo and i just watched
her over the course of like a three-day period just very very quickly visibly
change and she was like almost passing out she was stuttering hearing her words.
Like I could feel lumps. I was watching weight loss. Her color was gone.
(23:52):
And I worried about it, obviously.
But to make a long story short, there was, it was a Friday night.
And we had, I think we had gone on maybe a boat ride even just to try and like break it up a little bit.
And we came back and... Yeah, but what happened on that boat ride?
I was like sleeping on the floor.
Yeah, she was like basically passing out. And.
(24:13):
I remember laying in bed and it was like 10 o'clock at night and I literally
thought she was going to die that night. Like it had escalated that quickly.
Yeah. I remember you calling her nurse. Yeah. So I started to kind of like not
freak out. No, you started to freak out.
Well, I mean, not, not freak out in the way of not knowing what to do,
but definitely getting worried.
And I was like, so I called her nurse and I was like, honestly,
(24:35):
I'm scared that she's going to make, not going to make it through the night.
It is, it is escalated that quickly. I remember sitting next to you.
I can hear your voice in my head saying, I'm watching her die right now.
I'm that scared. I'm watching her die. And I didn't even realize that I wasn't
completing my sentences. I was getting confused.
(24:58):
It wasn't even correlating to me that it was that bad. It was bad.
But yeah, I've never seen you that worried. reach yeah
well i know you best i knew what was happening and
so i called and at 10 30 at night and
talked to the nurse and i was like i don't care what you say basically but
we're bringing her in which they fully supported they said yes absolutely
bring her in so we checked in the next morning for your first round at 7
(25:21):
a.m yep so it was about a week early yeah
but yeah they called in a major dose of
prednisone yep to get me through the night and
and then we checked in that next morning and that was
it and that first day of chemo this
was that first day they put in a pick line
in my arm because I hadn't even got my port placed yet
(25:43):
so they put a pick line in
my arm which was like this like pick line
team walks into your room like it's like
Dexter they like cover all of
you with like a plastic sheet and except
for like the inside like the biceps of my right
arm and like do this
(26:05):
pick line quote-unquote surgery like right there in my bed yeah it was like
it just freaked me out but they did that right away and then and then i was
taken down to have a like a spinal tap yep and then they put a little bit of
chemo into my spinal cord.
(26:25):
Because it was like, if it had gotten into your bone marrow,
which they hadn't known yet, if it had, then it could just be really detrimental.
So they were just kind of like precaution wise, like while we're in there,
like while we're doing the spinal, we're just going to like throw some chemo in there too.
Just a little shot. Just a little like sprinkle. What does Snoop Dogg say? I'm like paprika.
(26:47):
Just a little topper on the cocktail right there.
And then just started chemo. And then, yeah, that was it. All right.
So walk us through the stem cell.
Okay. So after all of those rounds, I think it was another five rounds.
Yep. It was like every three weeks. And after that, I got like two or three
(27:09):
weeks off, started to feel like so good, started to feel like normal again.
And then they had to start harvesting my stem cells. So I had an autogloss stem cell transplant,
which means it was my own stem cells that
were going to be it's almost like they they
take them out of your body and for like lack of like better
(27:30):
scientific words they kind of like spin them and like
just like extract the the
the cells out of them the good cells out of them and then
freeze them and then a month
later you get them put back in yeah so
i had to be on that was another thing and more shots at
home yep but i was giving them to myself this time
(27:51):
i had to give myself shots like in
my stomach a couple times a day and that was making my this is so bad that i
don't even remember but either my red or my white blood cells like super multiply
so that when we would go to harvest i would have more than we needed yeah so
i was giving myself those shots for weeks and.
(28:13):
And finally went in for the day to get my stem cells harvested.
And it was another like all day stay in the hospital, but no one could come in the room.
It was like a very sterile environment.
And I remember my dad came and he dropped me off at five o'clock in the morning.
And then I don't even know, did he come back home or did he wait there all day?
I don't remember. I don't remember, but he was, he was there when I came out.
(28:36):
So I was there all day. It was, it's almost like dialysis.
Like I was fine. I know I've literally just like watched shows on my iPad the
entire day, but it was just like a constant draw taking out. I had to have a separate.
So now at this point, my PICC line had gotten taken out of my arm.
My port had been placed, but then for the stem cell harvest and transplant,
(29:00):
I needed another port on the other side of my chest, which had three tubes coming out of it.
And that was just so like more things could be hooked up to me at a time.
So all day that like it came out and went into this other machine.
It was literally spinning next to me. And they were happy with the number they got.
(29:21):
And they put those babies on ice. And then I think it was like two or three weeks later.
Also, I had to be checked into the hospital. It was the day after Christmas
because we talked my doctor into letting me have Christmas at home.
And he was like, okay, but not New Year's.
So they let me have christmas so the day
after we i had to say goodbye to everybody that
(29:44):
was really hard because we knew i was going to be gone for three to
four weeks in the hospital and again in
a very sterile environment yeah your whole floor was locked down it was a bubble
yeah i couldn't go outside this time i couldn't walk the i could walk my hall
but that was it every room was pressurized yep kept separate from all the other
rooms it was yeah i mean it was completely locked down.
(30:08):
I had to go through like an air chamber to even come visit with locked doors
to be sterilized. It was, it was wild. It was wild. It was kind of cool.
And then, so before I get those stem cells back, I have to have 10 days of the
most aggressive chemotherapy, like known to man.
(30:28):
It's 10 days straight, almost 24 hours a day of chemo. And the whole point of
that was to take my immune system to zero, right?
And it was going to make me as sick as I was ever going to be.
And it did. It was horrible. But it brought my immune system down to nothing.
You had a negative white blood cell count. Yeah. And then that's like,
(30:52):
then like the next day after that last day.
Infusion the next day was when i was having the
transplant and that was on january 2nd and they brought
my stem cells in on ice it was like a whole
production it was very cool i had to
like chew on ice and ice pops the whole time
remember because it was like you could get mouth sores like
(31:15):
while you were getting the transplant it all happened
like right in my hotel room i wish it was a hotel room right
in my hospital room took i forget a
couple hours and that is considered day
one of your new life yeah because considered
one day old because when you say that they wipe out your
immunity they they wipe you out to
(31:36):
zero which means every single
vaccination you had ever had in your life wild
it's chicken pox all the vaccinations anything that
a newborn child gets you had zero of them again so technically
our children was gone on yeah technically our children
were more vaccinated than you because you had zero it
was completely wiped out yeah they had better immune systems and yeah
(31:58):
that's for sure everyone did yeah it was after that
you had to be put on and i don't want any vax feedback
on this but i had to be put on the same schedule as an infant and get all of
my vaccinations again and which is why we had to isolate them yes so we isolated
for about six months yep even when i Once I got out of the hospital,
(32:20):
which was in isolation there,
I had to really isolate at home because I didn't have an immune system.
I mean, I could catch a cold and it could literally kill me. Yeah.
I mean, I worked for an amazing company that let me work from home for six months.
Yeah, they were amazing. Thank goodness, right? Yep.
And that was it. I just stayed in. You really couldn't even go outside because
dust even was a potential killer.
(32:43):
Yeah. Any allergen. Yeah. Literally couldn't.
Remember the way he explained it? I literally couldn't go outside because if like.
A dog had an infection or something and breathed in the air and the wind blew
and I got any of that like through the wind. It was wild.
Yeah, it was. So yeah, that was, I definitely went a little stir crazy because
(33:07):
that was when I turned 40.
It was. So yeah, that was the end of that and everything's been honky dory since.
We're good. Yeah, everything's been really good. All right.
So that's a lot of detail about the treatment, which I think,
you know, again, you got a lot of questions about that and kind of what you went through.
Yeah. And you know what, actually, too, if people want to kind of see a visual
(33:30):
of that whole thing, Selma Blair, she has MS, but she had a stem cell transplant,
the same exact one that I had. She got the same chemo and everything.
She didn't have all the chemo beforehand, but she got the same stuff that I
got in the hospital and there is a documentary on her experience.
I forget what it's on and I forget what it's called, but you could just search
(33:51):
her name and find it. And it is, it's so good.
She seems like such a lovable, wonderful human, but she has cameras in,
in her hospital room showing that whole thing that I just explained.
Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, I could, I was allowed to be there when they put your
stem cells back in. and I remember they brought those bags in and you could
(34:13):
actually visibly see the cells.
It almost looked like a tube of like licorice with like white round cells going
back into you. It was the coolest thing.
I was like, that's your life going back in. I know, and you know what's another
interesting fact about that too?
The first time I had cancer, the stem cell transplant and the CAR T-C cell therapy.
(34:36):
Were in clinical trials right still yeah so
it was cool to kind of come full circle
and even though it was a bad experience that like
something that was just kind of in the works the last
time i was sick was now like being being given as like a normal line of treatment
(34:56):
yep so that was really cool too so you're really just two and a half years old
which is gonna explain a lot for how how you act sometimes and like in future
episodes about how young oh okay okay okay,
all right so i think you know speaking of two and a half years tomorrow i have
my very first haircut and hair appointment because i have like i have not i let anyone touch my hair.
(35:24):
Since growing it back so yeah i'm
excited tomorrow i'm gonna get my first haircut as a two-year-old oh
congrats thanks you're gonna keep your hair in a baggie i should you should
really freak out your stylist she understands put a put a lock in this baggie
for me i'm just getting the ends cut off don't get it twisted all right so you know i think,
(35:47):
just from the amount of time we have left let's talk a little bit about how
the kids handled it right because i think we really gave everybody a pretty
good indication of how hard it was
physically what you went through right and we haven't talked too much about emotional and,
you know how we stayed optimistic and how we got through it
(36:08):
and again that's probably a whole episode in and of itself but what was it like
with the kids this time i think right that was really hard on not just them
but you and me yeah i think just
telling them yeah was Was probably one of the worst days of our lives.
So how long did we, we discussed it for about a week and made that decision? Yeah.
(36:34):
I don't even think it was that long. I think we wanted to wait a little bit
and then, and then I was like getting so sick.
Right. That there was really not going to be like any hiding it.
And we knew I was going to have to be an inpatient. So we were going to have to tell them.
And at this time, our youngest was in kindergarten and our oldest was in second grade. So they're not.
(36:55):
You know, big kids, but they're old enough to understand something.
Right. And they had seen pictures of me from when I was pregnant with Aiden
and kind of told them our story and stuff, but you don't really get it. Right.
And so we took the kids out on the deck and we're just kind of like,
(37:17):
you know, you know how mom has been not really feeling great lately.
And you know she's having a hard time walking and
her hip and she's been really sick and they're like
yeah and we're like well you know
we went we've been going a lot of doctors and and trying to figure things out
and the good news is we finally figured out what's going on right and now we
(37:39):
know and now she can start getting better and they were like oh cool good and
then we were They're like,
so mom has cancer again.
And our two kids are very different, right?
They're only 17 months apart, but they are very different. Polar opposites.
(38:01):
Polar, especially emotionally, that kind of stuff.
So my younger one, Mason, who is attached to my hip still now,
I mean, he is my protector.
Yes. he immediately started crying, got very upset,
which we were trying not to get upset because we didn't want to scare them,
(38:21):
which obviously made us really upset when he was to see him that way,
just sobbing and so scared.
And then Aiden, our oldest, needs to process things on his own, first of all.
And second of all, he doesn't like to show a lot of emotion. So- He...
Literally got the words out. He said, is that it? Is that everything you have
(38:45):
to tell us? And I said, yeah.
And he got up and walked away and went up to his room.
And my heart just crumbled right there because I was just like, does he not care?
Is he upset? Is he up there crying? Is he just up there not really caring about what happened?
It was really hard. It was really, really hard.
And he did care, obviously, of course. He really did care. But he's just different.
(39:10):
He's just had to process it on his own first and then he got angry
he did get really angry he got really mad he
had to you know come to terms with it on himself and then come around to it
and then he was okay yeah you know and we immediately got them into like some
play therapy through through the cancer institute just so that it was just like
(39:33):
they went together and they could you know,
she obviously knew how to talk to them to let them know what was going on with me,
but also to let them have a safe space to let out what they were thinking.
And, you know, maybe they had the wrong ideas of like what was going to happen.
And she could kind of, you know, she knew how to kind of like tiptoe around
(39:55):
it to tell them the truth, but also make it kid friendly, which was really helpful. Cool.
And then because it was impatient, that was a whole nother conversation was
letting them know because they are never away from me.
I've been a stay-at-home mom since they were born. Born.
So I'm always here when they get home from school.
(40:17):
I'm always taking them to school. I'm always making every meal.
I'm always here at bedtime.
So that was another really hard conversation and really hard for them to get through.
Grew but luckily we had matt's mom and
dad come stay with us for quite a
while right and that was that was good because it was it was
(40:38):
they were there to help us but they were a really great distraction
because the kids just love being around their nana and papa so that kind of
just like took their mind off of things when i wasn't there yeah yeah it was
a lot of facetiming yes a lot of facetime and we would again like you said earlier
we would make a lot of effort to just Just bring them to the hospital,
(40:59):
even if it was for 10 minutes outside to see you.
But, you know, I think the tough part for me was I would come home and they
would want a lot of, they'd have a lot of questions. Yeah. Right.
And when she was staying overnight and it was, of course, it wasn't deep questions,
but it was things about how is she doing?
You know, how is, how does she feel?
Is mom going to die? Right. Like I got that question quite a bit from Mason.
(41:23):
And I mean, it's still like brings me to teary-eyed, like thinking about it,
like how to answer that question to him without, because we never want,
we never have and never want to lie to our kids.
And so we've always wanted to be very open with them and say,
it's a slim possibility that she will.
(41:45):
But there is a chance that if something ever went wrong, that it could happen.
Because I think the worst thing we could ever do is say there's no chance and
then something happened.
So we were very open with that from the get-go. But also very positive.
Very positive. She's in the best hands. And she's getting the treatment she
needs. We hired the best doctor in Charlotte, right? Like very over the top
with those sorts of things.
(42:07):
We were so lucky that we moved here because now we have the best team in place. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, we, gosh, I mean, it was, it still hurts.
I mean, it still hurts years later to think about that. And how did we get through
it? Gosh, I mean, that was a question.
That's a, I don't know. I don't know how we got through it.
(42:28):
I don't know, but we did, they did, and everybody's better for it.
Yeah. You know, Mason's always been a very, as Jess said,
emotional and thoughtful kid and a caretaker and sensitive
and even the last couple years after going
through that i mean he is a hundred percent even more yeah
(42:49):
if your feet are cold like oh yeah right i'll
give me a blanket if you stand up from the couch i'm gonna put a blanket down
to keep your spot warm or he sits in my spot yeah to keep it warm yeah so he's
he's gonna have a uh lucky woman or oh yeah or i shouldn't say woman in today's
day and age right he's gonna have a lucky partner sometime in his Yeah, he really is.
(43:10):
Like, he's such an amazing kid. Yeah. And so is Aiden.
He just shows his, he just, he's just in different ways. Yeah,
just in different ways. But yeah, Mason is amazing.
That kid, he's the most empathetic kid I've ever. Yeah, for sure.
All right, so I don't know if we're gonna have too much time to really get into
things like, right, how we stay so optimistic.
(43:34):
Again, I think that's probably an episode in itself, but.
I can touch on it real quick, actually, because this is the same,
I've been asked this question so many times, and it's a choice.
Yeah. Right? It was a choice. It was a choice to be optimistic.
It was a choice to be positive it was a choice to put a smile on my face it was a choice to,
(43:56):
make videos and and post my
journey online and send the kids silly videos of
me in the hospital and to keep exercising and
to keep i would keep up on my nutrition all those things because being optimistic
is what made me take steps every single day yeah you know because if i If I
(44:20):
allowed myself to get into that hole of,
oh my God, what is life right now?
You can't climb out of it. You get too deep into that and there's no coming out of it.
And so to stay optimistic was, you know, when you don't have a choice,
you do what you have to do and you just do it. And you don't think about it until after.
(44:42):
Right. And that's just what we had to do. And so we did it. Yeah. Yeah.
So that's really it. I mean, when people ask me about that, right? I mean, that's it.
I made a choice and that was what I did. Now after post-treatment,
people don't really talk about how hard that is.
Coming out of treatment and out of like a, really out of any like traumatic
situation, sometimes you're just like on autopilot getting through it and then
(45:06):
it's over and you're like, wait, what just happened?
Right. And then it's like, you need help after that. That's when you really need a lot of support.
Yeah. Yeah. So what if you had to think about maybe one or two things that you
learned most about yourself going through all the suck, right?
(45:29):
And all the hell and just your outlook on life that we learned a lot about in the last episode.
What are a couple things that you just never knew about yourself that you learned?
I don't know that I never knew about myself, but the very first one is life is short.
(45:50):
Yeah. So short. Things can change on a dime so quickly.
You don't see them coming. And if you aren't.
Being the person that you want to be, living that life that you want to live
every single day with intention and being genuine and telling the people you
(46:10):
love that you love them and being a good person and basically feeling like you
were given another chance.
So you need to be better and you need to do better and you need to give more.
That's like, it can all be gone in a second.
(46:31):
So that's definitely like the first and foremost.
Second, I would say that your attitude is like your gratitude, basically.
And what I mean by that is if you keep a good attitude and you have a positive
outlook and you do things that are in a positive light, then.
(46:56):
The gratitude to you will be the same.
Does that make sense? If you put out the good, then you're going to get the good. Yeah.
Throw it into the universe, let it come back. Yep, let it come back to you because
that's what it's all about.
I mean, if I can't help anybody else from what I've been through,
(47:19):
then why was I put here to go through this?
And not just about being sick. You know, it's being optimistic and having hope
and everything after you watch a child die,
you know, and that was like, like, take me with you. Like, that was horrible.
(47:40):
Losing your mom unexpectedly, like, all of those things are terrible, horrible things.
But if we can't, like, kind of like the question, the other question of how
do you live through grief and not let it, like, just take a hold of your life?
It's like you have to make a decision.
You have to make a decision to move forward and know that you have the memories
(48:03):
of those people and everything that came with them and those aren't going anywhere
just because the person isn't physically there.
It doesn't mean that they are not still a part of you and a part of your life.
And if you want to continue to live, then you have to make the decision to.
(48:24):
To live, to do that. Yeah. Okay. That's good. What about you?
Tell me something you learned.
Well, I think it kind of was going to actually yield into maybe my next question
was, I think the first time we went through this together, I didn't necessarily
know exactly how to support you, right? Like I'm a very optimistic.
(48:46):
Well, you're a fixer. I'm a fixer. I want to fix problems. That's what I do
for work, right? I want to solve problems. I want to come up with solutions.
And I couldn't fix this. And so I didn't necessarily know exactly what you needed.
And maybe what I was giving you wasn't exactly what you needed from your spouse in some ways.
Some ways it was, some ways it wasn't. So I learned after we had a lot of conversations
(49:08):
after the first time, I learned, I think, how to better support you that second time.
And it was a whole different experience. And I gave you,
I think, what you needed because I had learned so from
your view right i think a lot of your followers and
people that listen and just other people you
you talk to are going through something like this what would
(49:30):
you tell somebody going through this to talk
to their spouse about it's funny i actually just talked to a friend of mine
who he just went through cancer and chemo and i was kind of coaching him through
it before he went into treatment and I asked to speak to his fiance and I said to her,
(49:50):
things are going to change drastically when he starts treatment.
You're going to become his caretaker. If I can give you the biggest piece of
advice that we learned through that is that you still need to be his partner,
not just his caretaker.
He doesn't want you to be his nurse and nothing else.
(50:14):
I understand that you're going to want to take care of him as best you can and
that's going to be your main focus but you can't forget that we also have a
marriage that we also have a relationship that needs to be tended to also and
I think that was a big lesson for us it was yeah.
Yeah it was because I go into fixing mode yeah and go into and you mentioned
it earlier right I get home from work especially that first time right I get
(50:37):
home from work and have kids to take care of have house duties to take care
of right whatever it was and.
What do you need? Right. And it was always those questions. And I remember like
I would come in and be like, what do you need?
And I would, I would do it and I would handle it and I would bring it.
And then I would collapse, right.
From exhaustion, but not be there for the emotional, the kind of person that
(50:58):
like he would set timers for when I needed to take certain medication,
medication, he knew when I had to eat, he knew that I wasn't getting enough water.
So it was like constantly like, you need to be drinking more of that.
You didn't, since I walked out of here last time, you didn't drink much.
Like you need to take this medicine right now. You need to, dah,
dah, And I would get so frustrated because I'm like, I'm not just like,
(51:18):
I'm not just your patient.
Like, I need you. I need you right now.
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it was I spent a lot of time reflecting on that,
not just because of what we went through.
But, A, I think it helped strengthen our marriage even before the second time.
Right. Just for me to think about things a little bit differently from that aspect. Yeah.
(51:41):
And then when you went through the second time like i
consciously focused on treating you
like a human right and like my wife and like let's play games and let's not
set timers and yeah you know you're an adult and you can i can write it out
for you and you can take your medicine or whatever is needed right so no it
(52:01):
was just a different nature of all those things but it was also like Like,
you know, I also need you to, like,
take a shower with me because I can't stand up this long.
Right. I need you to hold me up. Yeah. And then after that, like,
I need you to dry me off and then, like, lay with me for a minute.
Yeah. And, like, you know, I know you just had to take care of me,
(52:24):
but now I also need, like, the emotional support of my husband, too.
So it was a lot of that. And it was different this time. And you're amazing.
I mean, you really are, like, a born caretaker.
And I think that's where Mason gets it from. Like you really are just like a nurturer.
And sometimes it's robotic because you just want to get stuff done and fix it.
(52:47):
But then I feel like you understand now more that there is a whole other emotional side to it, too.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, from the optimistic side, right?
Again, we had a choice that we could either let this rip us apart and stuff
like this does to a lot of couples.
Or we can get through it and work through it. And I don't know.
(53:10):
What do you think? Is our marriage stronger now? Now, the last,
especially the last, even several years, probably than ever.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, this is, yeah, this will make or break you.
Yeah, it will. Yeah. And then, especially going through it twice,
then you're really like, okay, life really is short. Yep. Like, we need to slow down.
We need to enjoy more. And, you know, like we touched on last week,
(53:31):
too, it's just like our lifestyle has changed so much.
And I think we're just so much happier now. Yeah. No, I agree.
Awesome. Well, hopefully that gave everybody a little bit more,
you know, insight into some of the questions that have been asked and.
Yeah. And maybe one day it would be good to do an episode on caretaking and
just because even friends, family, spouses, you sometimes when somebody doesn't
(53:55):
know what to say to somebody, they just don't say anything at all.
And then you end up feeling like all your friends are like ghosting you because,
and they, they just don't know how to react or what to say or what to do.
And they feel awkward, I think.
And sometimes it's just like, you know.
Here's a few things that you could just do. Just be there. Just sit with someone.
(54:17):
Just talk. Just pick up the phone. Just give them company.
That's what people need. And it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to be a caretaker.
It's hard to be a friend of. It's hard.
It's not as hard as going through chemo twice. Well, you wouldn't know.
Hopefully, I won't have to. Probably not. Okay. Well, I hope we answered as much as we could.
(54:40):
Like I said, I always want your feedback and your questions,
your comments, all of those things, because I want to talk about what you want to hear about.
And yes, Matt can be here whenever, wherever.
I know everybody loves him. I also just wanted to say, you know,
thank you again for all the downloads and the listens.
(55:02):
If you feel like somebody you know would benefit from hearing any of our conversations,
please share the episodes, share the show, subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, everywhere, Amazon Music,
(55:23):
anywhere you can get your podcasts.
So like, follow, comment. I would love all that. Also visit and follow the Instagram page.
It is outloudanduncorkedpod is the handle.
And my personal handle is jesslrush, Jess with one.
(55:46):
Yeah, so follow us everywhere and yeah, enjoy the show. I'm so glad you're here.
Thanks, babe. Thank you. All right. We'll talk to you soon. All right. Bye.
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