December 5, 2025 • 61 mins
Poaching networks, shrinking habitats, foreign market demand and political neglect are reshaping conservation across the region. And rangers are paying the highest price. In this episode of Panel 54, veteran ranger Michael Lenaimado joins Waweru Njoroge and Ndu Okoh to break down what’s really happening on the front lines. He exposes how organised poaching networks operate, why demand in China for rhino horn and pangolin scales continues to drive killings, and how weak policy and blocked wildlife corridors are pushing entire ecosystems to the brink. Michael also reveals the human cost: armed confrontations, poor equipment, low pay, no insurance, and communities losing crops, livestock and livelihoods with little compensation. This is a story about survival, sovereignty and the people carrying the weight of conservation — told by a ranger who has lived it. Lagos to Lamu. Cape Town to Cairo. A global perspective through an African lens. 📩 Let’s talk: hello@panel54pod.com Subscribe: https://linktr.ee/panel54pod 🎙 Recorded in Nairobi, Kenya 🎧 Produced by Commex Africa and E & C Talent
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Well, for the rhino horn myth is that
we came when poaching was going on.
We learned about poaching.
We learned about why this poaching is happening.
As we also read from the Chinese reports
is that rhino horn is used as an
(00:23):
aphrodisiac or for some ailments or something like
that.
The same with the pangolins, pangolins is a
why the demand is there because the Chinese
will use it to make the medicine for
maybe some ailments like gout, like arthritis, like
(00:43):
that.
But at the moment, we do not have
any scientific proof that this one is working.
From Cairo to Cape Town, Lagos to Lamu,
54 nations, one continent, countless perspectives.
Hi, I'm Owero Njoroge, welcome to panel 54,
a global perspective through an African lens.
This is the podcast where we unpack power,
(01:04):
policy, people, and the paradoxes that define our
time with nuance, with history, and with deliberate
commitment to context.
This is not punditry.
It's a perspective.
It's not a briefing.
It's a reframing, and it starts right here.
(01:28):
Today we turn to East African conservation at
a moment when Africa is losing nearly 4
million hectares of forest every year, according to
the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation.
As landscapes shrink, contact between people and wildlife
intensifies, and rangers carry more of the risk.
Across Kenya's conservancies, human-wildlife conflict continues to
(01:48):
rise.
Kenya Wildlife Service records more than 20,000
incidents a year from crop destruction to livestock
losses.
At the same time, wildlife crime has become
more organised.
Traffic reports that rhino horns has sold for
more than $60,000 a kilo in some
markets, which places entire ecosystems under pressure.
Our guest, Michael Lennai-Maido, works directly with
(02:10):
rangers, pastoralists, and conservancy teams across these landscapes.
He brings a grounded understanding of what protection
looks like on the front line.
So today we explore what it means to
be a ranger in this environment, how communities
are coping with conflict, how poaching networks operate
across borders, and what future East African conservation
is building for the next generation.
(02:32):
So my question would be, what does a
modern ranger conservancy person actually do in their
involved day-to-day?
Okay, thank you very much.
You know, first introduce myself.
My name is Michael Lennai-Maido.
I am from Samburu, and I have been
(02:55):
a ranger for like 20 to 25 years
now.
I have been working as a ranger in
different places in the country.
I did it in Samburu, up in northern
Kenya, in Ilngwesi, up in Laikipia, and then
South Rift, that is in Magadi area, Luita
(03:17):
Hills, and all those places.
But I've only also had an opportunity to
work in Meru National Park and Sabo East
National Park.
Yes, so a ranger has become a very
important person, because they protect our resources, and
their work is not as easy as people
(03:39):
think.
One is that being a ranger, you make
many more enemies than friends, because you're protecting
the resource that other people would want to
benefit from.
So what I say is that behind every
living animal in Kenya, a ranger must be
(04:00):
behind.
So we have two types of rangers.
We have the rangers that work for the
government, and the community rangers.
We started calling them community scouts, but now
they have graduated, and now they are called
community rangers.
So these people work in very difficult conditions.
(04:22):
One is that some of them may have
a salary, they may not have accommodation, they
may not have the equipment that they require
to perform their duties.
Again, the government rangers and the community rangers,
the threat is the same, because they are
looking after this wildlife, say rhino, elephant, and
(04:43):
even the cats.
So they face the same type of threats.
And the community rangers now have got more
challenges, because one, they may know about the
ground where they're operating from, their map, they
(05:04):
can be able to gather intelligence, they can
be able to communicate with locals, and also
locals will be able to volunteer information for
them that they require for their work.
For example, if you go to Samburu now,
or Maasai land, or Laikipia, if a community
member sees a wounded animal, or a dead
animal, or a sick animal, they'll report to
(05:24):
the community rangers, or they report to them
through their channels, maybe through a community member,
or something like that, or through the leadership
of the area.
So, among the biggest challenges, and the differences,
is that the government rangers are equipped, because
the government has revenue to train them, to
provide them with the equipment.
(05:45):
Equipment can be weapons, can be uniforms, can
be food, can be transport, can be all
that.
But for the community ranger setups, depends on
the area, and also the donors that they
have in that area.
When we started the community ranger system, is
that we were only able to raise money
only for salary.
(06:09):
Okay.
We didn't have money for food, we didn't
have money for the equipment, we didn't even
have money for training, and all that.
So, this varies from an area to an
area.
So, the biggest challenges now we have in
the field, you know, if I may just
go back, we have, like, in the government
(06:30):
side, we have, like, 23 national parks, 28
marine parks, and game reserves, and all that.
But in community, we have got, like, 250
community conservancies.
Right.
So, and the enrolment for the rangers now,
we have, like, 5,000 community rangers in
(06:51):
the country.
I don't know what they have in the
government now in KWS.
Also, ranger doesn't only mean a ranger that
works for KWS or a ranger that works
for the community.
We also have Kenya Forest Guards, they are
also rangers.
Marine park rangers are also part of rangers.
We may have the government and also the
(07:11):
community rangers.
So, the biggest challenge is for the community
rangers.
Maybe they did not have access to funding
or to donors or to something like that.
But we are glad to report now that
in most of the community conservancies, most of
them have got maybe tourist facilities in their
(07:33):
conservancies.
And in these tourist facilities, the rangers will
visit and pay conservation fees or whatever type
of arrangement they have.
And this money will be used to, or
to facilitate them in what they are doing.
But now the other big challenge is that
the community rangers may not have the required
training for them to be able to perform
(07:54):
their duties.
For example, you know, the training that the
government rangers have, you know, they may be
able to have maybe trainings on safety, on
how to handle firearms, on administration on that.
Maybe anti-poaching patrol techniques and all that,
(08:16):
you know, first aid, court proceeding trainings and
all that.
So, that is a point that the community
rangers lack.
And it's because they do not have funding
to do that.
And also, they may not have the leadership
that will be able to provide this for
them.
(08:36):
So, outside of the research, I mean, obviously
the glaring point there is, if I was
to underline this is to say resource constraints
are one of the things that are hampering.
You've done Samburu, you've done Laikipia, Meru National
Park.
So, you know the terrain as it were.
And the reason I'm asking this question is
because it's not one size fits all.
(08:57):
You've got the flatlands, you've got your mountains,
you've got plains, you've got your marshes and
bogs and what have you.
So, what's the differences in terms of the
terrains and also more specifically, actually the culture
and the conflict patterns, all conflict patterns, right?
So, you have a culture, you've got conflict
patterns.
How does that shape how rangers operate on
the ground?
(09:18):
Because there must be an aspect of culture.
Like I said, not one size fits all.
So, you'd have to say, okay, this culture,
this particular group of people would not respond
well if I act in a particular way.
And also, like I said, you've got different
areas to cover and different kinds of conflicts,
obviously, within this place, these other areas.
So, how does that play into how people
(09:41):
actually respond?
Okay.
I am among the people who started working
with the community conservancies first.
I'll tell you the first community conservancy we
had in Kenya was Olchororewa, which belongs, I
think, to the Ntutu family.
And then the second conservancy was Ilingwesi up
in Laikipia.
The third conservancy was in Samburu, a place
(10:04):
called Namunyak, where I come from, where I
was first employed as its coordinator.
One is that it was very difficult to
convince the community about starting conservation in their
area.
One, because there was always suspicion that maybe
this is land grabbing, this is ABCD.
But what we did was to mobilise the
(10:26):
community members, you know, the youth, people with
disabilities, the leadership, and all the opinion leaders,
and even the church leaders.
So, we took them for a trip to
Olchororewa to see what those people are doing.
Funny enough, you know, we have the same
elephants at home that are in Mara, that
(10:48):
are in Samburu Game Reserve, that are here
and there in any protected area.
The same buffalo.
But there was no arrangement on how the
community will be able to benefit from their
wildlife.
So, that is when we started now educating
people about wildlife, the importance of wildlife, about
tourism, and all that.
(11:09):
So, later on, when they accepted, you know,
they sort of set aside an area for
the conservancy.
And most of the community members will give
you the area that they least want to
use.
Let them have that area.
It's spontaneous, there isn't water, and all that.
But after years of doing that, we started
(11:32):
getting investors to come and put up hotels.
We started employing community rangers.
And we started employing, and you know, when
there is a facility, you know, obviously, the
facility will need driver guides, will need...
So, you're creating jobs.
So, that has created jobs.
That is point number one.
Point number two is that after now the
(11:54):
community started benefiting, now their attitude towards animals
changed.
And it changed because of the benefits that
they started having.
One of the benefits is that job employment.
And then also through that revenue, they have
an arrangement that they have community committees.
That these community committees, they may have finance
(12:16):
committee, conservation committee, security committee, and all that.
So, when there is an annual general meeting,
now the management will come and say, we
have made this amount of money.
Where do you want us to use this
money?
Because it has to come from the community.
So, others will be sending this money to
scholarships.
Others will be sending this money to medical
(12:38):
services.
For example, if they have sick people that
cannot be able to pay their bills, they
can be able to do that.
Development like maybe water systems, maybe development of
schools or a clinic or something like that.
So, all these things have changed the attitude
of the communities towards wildlife conservation.
Which conflict patterns stand out most clearly in
(13:01):
the Mara-Serengeti ecosystem from your vantage point?
Okay.
First, let's understand what this human wildlife conflict
is.
One is that we know that the human
population is growing.
So, there is always demand for land for
agriculture.
And they stay here for a bit of
(13:22):
time and then go there.
So, among the conflicts is that, one, the
drivers will always want to show their clients
the best.
That is one.
Two, also the investors will want to come
and put up structures.
You know, the facilities along the route, the
(13:46):
path so that their clients will have the
best.
So, those are some of the conflicts.
And then also overcrowding.
All vehicles in one point will always frustrate
the movement of the animals.
Because, you know, it's not only the wild
beasts that will come during the migration.
They come with zebras.
(14:08):
They come with gazelles and all that.
And, you know, crocodiles on the other side
of the river.
That's a natural thing.
It's a buffet for them, yeah.
Yeah.
So, it's just...
So, it's the drivers that cause conflicts.
It's the upcoming infrastructures that are coming in
(14:32):
to bring conflicts.
Because, obviously, you know, before you bring up
a facility, you have to make sure that
an environmental impact assessment has been done.
So that, is this going to favour this?
Is this going to work well with that
or not?
Is this going to conform with the movement
of the wildlife?
And that's all.
(14:53):
That is one of the conflicts that we
see in the Serengeti Mara ecosystem.
Okay.
And how is the coordination between Kenya and
Tanzania coming along in terms of now trying
to mitigate also the experiences of loss in
terms of when you have urgent responses?
(15:15):
Well, the Kenyan government and the Tanzanian government
have been working closely together, especially in the
protection of the wildlife corridors.
I'll give an example.
From the Chulus to Mukomasi, from Chulus to
(15:35):
the other side.
And then also along the, let's say, Magadi
area, that's the Shampole area, because of the
flamingos in lake.
So, they work in collaboration with also rangers
on the other side, let's say in Korongoro
conservation area, Tarangire, all that along the border.
(15:56):
So, also on Mara and Serengeti, is that
place called Sand River?
Such places.
So, they have been working in collaboration because
when the wild beasts are migrating into Kenya,
they will alert the other side that it's
coming.
And also, they do what they call joint
(16:17):
patrols, between those rangers on the other side
and rangers on this side.
So, those are working out very well.
Apart from these challenges that are people putting
in, you know, infrastructures on the corridor.
So, there is really a very big collaboration
in trying to protect those corridors.
Okay.
(16:38):
Now, on the aspect of loss, I want
to look at the other side of the
coin, right?
Yes, we lose a lot of animals to
poachers and things like that.
But there's, and this still ties into the
human wildlife conflict.
And I'm sure you've witnessed this yourself.
But if I was to look at one
single elephant, which can pretty much wipe out
a family's entire crop for that season.
(17:00):
And these are reports, again, which we can
find in the WWF.
The problem here is that compensation claims often
take many, many months, sometimes even years.
Which then leaves the households struggling, economically and
emotionally as well, I'm sure.
Because they're relying on those crops to be
(17:21):
able to put their children through school and
things like that.
But then, how communities are currently coping with
that kind of economic and emotional weight of
recurring loss to wildlife now coming in and
doing that, destroying crops and things like that?
Up in Samburu and maybe like Kipi and
Kajadu and the places that I have worked
(17:41):
in, is that there's quite a lot of...
Okay, we are not an agricultural sort of
ecosystem.
Okay.
You know, pastoralism.
What happens is that, you know, in the
agricultural area, if an elephant will come to
your farm, an elephant will require like 250
(18:04):
kilogrammes or kgs of grass or vegetation on
that.
It needs 180 litres of water.
So if an elephant infests your farm, it
will wipe out the whole thing.
Now, the big cats like the leopard, the
lion, or even the hyenas or the wild
(18:26):
dogs, those are the most notorious ones, you
know, they could wipe out the whole of
your...
Your cattle, your goods.
Your cattle and all that.
So sometimes there are a lot of retaliatory
killings of these animals.
So people could spear elephants, people could spear
or even poison, lace that meat that was
(18:48):
eaten by...
That goat that was eaten by a lion
or a wild...
I mean, wild dogs.
So there are those things that come up
with that.
But now, in Amboseli, there's a programme called
Big Life.
So they had set up sort of a
consolation fund for if your cow has been
(19:13):
killed by a lion, what is the market
for the cow?
Is it 30,000?
I think they pay you that.
If it's a donkey, they pay you for
that.
If it's a goat, they'll take the market
price and then they compensate you.
So there have been...
I think they had some donors who will
be able to fund that.
That is one.
If my goat is eaten or my cow
(19:34):
is killed and it's dragged out into the
bush, how do I verify that it was
killed by a wild...
So I can say, okay, fine, Big Life,
I've lost ABCD.
How do I verify and not basically try
to run a scam?
That is one of the duties of a
community ranger or the KWS ranger.
Because they have to come to the field,
(19:56):
verify this was killed by a lion, verify
this was killed by a leopard or something
like that.
And then they have forms that they normally
fill.
Then that one will be forwarded to the
compensation committee.
If it's a human loss, maybe it has
been killed by an elephant, the KWS will
come and verify, they have forms that will
be filled.
(20:16):
And then from there, now the government normally
now compensates for the human loss.
Okay, okay.
For agricultural sort of destruction, I think they
have the agricultural officer, they bring him on
the ground and assess the acreage and all
that.
So we've got those systems that have been
(20:37):
put in place in every county or in
every district or in every centre.
You know, there is the government representation, be
it a doctor, be it an agricultural officer,
the KWS station or if it's a forest
department.
So there are those systems that have been
put in place.
So let me ask, so when growing up,
obviously we watch cartoons and things like that
(21:00):
and you'd always see a scarecrow standing in
the middle of a crop field.
So in terms of this particular on-ground,
elephant coming in or lions coming to or
leopards, what mitigation strategies have actually genuinely worked?
I know some people use sound to get
rid of avians and things like that, but
where have they actually worked and where can
they be replicated so that we reduce this
(21:22):
kind of thing?
I think I remember like four to five
methods.
One is that the scarecrow, especially for crop
reading animals.
The other thing is that they have tried
to put fences.
For example, like Aberdeen National Park, most of
it is fenced off.
So that has reduced the problem.
(21:43):
In Amboseli, they have also, in this group
branches, they have fenced off some places that
are, I don't know what you call that,
you know, the places they use for irrigation
and all that so that the animals do
not reach their produce.
The other thing is there's pipa, pilipili.
(22:04):
So another thing is that if you, if
you grow them around your farm, the elephants
will not go near.
The other thing is there are people who
are putting up honey, honey, honey, honey hives?
Bee hives, bee hives.
So if an elephant maybe goes around that
(22:25):
area and maybe a swarm of bees will
come to eat, then it will obviously go
back.
And then there are others who normally put
trenches before they, you know, as a barrier
to their farms.
I mean, for things like the cats, you
know, like the masses, the samburos, you know,
will put up those stony bushes to prevent
(22:46):
them.
And then other things they are getting into
now is that there are organisations that provide
lighting.
So you could put up a light near
your bomba and obviously a hyena will not
come into it.
Leopard will not come into it.
So there are those methods that they have
tried to use and they are working.
Okay.
I want to now switch gears to poaching.
(23:07):
So we've got the migration, which one of
the big things that we've been seeing, but
poaching and organised business.
Because poaching is actually a business.
So according to the UNODC, they rank wildlife
trafficking among the most, the top global criminal
traits, right?
Africa lost more than, how many was it?
(23:28):
100,000 elephants between the year 2007 and
2014.
Which basically goes to show how coordinated these
networks have actually started becoming.
And I'll come on to now the sophistication
a bit later.
But how would you describe the structure and
behaviour of modern poaching networks operating within this
(23:51):
region?
Okay.
Let's go to poaching and illegal wildlife trade.
Okay.
So there's still very big demand for ivory,
for rhino horn and even other wildlife products.
(24:12):
So there is a illegal trade, which involves
the killing of an animal in the field
and then by a poacher.
And then the poacher will hand offer the
trophy or the product to a cartel that
(24:32):
will eventually take it to a market.
So in around 1990s, we had like only
16 elephants left in Kenya.
Of late now we have got like 35
,000 elephants in Kenya.
Okay.
You know, there were so many tremendous efforts
(24:54):
put in between the rangers, the government rangers
and now with the community rangers.
If you go back, you'll find that 70
% of the wildlife normally lives within the
protected areas.
I mean, outside the protected areas.
It's only 25 that lives in there because
of, you know, movement, drought, wet seasons and
(25:18):
all that.
So you'll find that many, most of the
wildlife will live outside that is now in
the community areas.
And that is why there must be collaboration
between the government and the communities.
So there is an engagement that takes place
in there.
So what happens is that these wildlife poaching,
(25:41):
as I said, it's a poacher and then
the cartel and then the market.
Few years ago, there was rise in elephant
poaching in wildlife products and all that.
But you'll find that it's no longer the
normal business as it used to be.
It's an organised crime.
(26:02):
And more emphasis should be put in the
exit points where the products will go out
from.
For example, we've got the JKA, we've got
the Mombasa port whereby most of like the
Mombasa port, they have arrested a lot of,
you know, traffic of wildlife trophies or products.
(26:24):
So if the agencies have, the security agencies
have to work in collaboration, for example, the
KWS will need to work closely with the
Kenya police, with the, you call it KRA,
you know, where all these systems, you know,
work.
And there should be a vetting, very good
(26:46):
vetting of the people who are going to
be involved in this because these exit points
have been the biggest problem.
So the other thing is that the prices
for these products have shot, have gone up.
So everyone, you know, those organised cartels will
(27:06):
use every means to access the product that
they want.
For example, they can even use sophisticated, you
know, efforts, you know, they can use helicopters,
they can use negate, they can use anything.
They can even use the systems, you know,
to make sure that they have had their
product going to the markets that they want.
(27:27):
So wouldn't, depending on how you look at
it from that perspective, then wouldn't the, wouldn't
it make more sense or would it, is
there anything in place that would suggest that
you make the penalties for poaching a lot
stricter?
I'm not saying to the point where you
get to a death sentence, but they need
to make those, the penalties.
(27:50):
I don't know whether there's anything at the
moment that's been put together to say, okay,
fine, poachers will be remanded for the next
20 years for X amount of elephants killed
or whatever the case, or whichever animal basically.
I think the government has worked on that,
that now for, I understand for the penalty
(28:10):
will be like 20 to 25 years if
you're found with maybe a rhino horn or
an elephant tusks.
So I think that one has also discouraged
the people in the field from doing poaching.
That is one.
The other thing is because there are a
lot of eyes now looking for example, the
(28:31):
community, because they are benefiting from this wildlife.
So they wouldn't want to see it distracted.
So that is the other thing.
The other thing, the collaboration between the security
agencies, you know, the KWS is working closely
with the intelligence, with all that, with the
KRA, with the people mining, you know, these
Xs.
And I also understand in some places they
(28:52):
are now using the sniffer dogs, you know,
at these entry points, exit, exit points, not
entry points.
So I think all that is working out
positively.
Okay, so that collaboration.
And the other thing is, sorry, when, during
Obama's time, I think most of the markets
(29:14):
also outside have been closed.
And there has also been a lot of
campaigns into those ends like China, like all
those places that these products used to go
to.
So most of them have also been discouraged.
I'll come to the aspect of China.
So people like KWS and TANAPA, those collaborations
would point to the fact that our populations
(29:34):
of elephants have managed to jump up to
the 35,000 we're seeing right now.
Yes, yes.
Okay, now we mentioned sophistication.
You mentioned sophistication right now.
And you also touched on this aspect that
the value of wildlife products has drawn in.
The prices obviously are the ones that are
creating, yeah, driving the demand.
(29:56):
So now the value of that actual wildlife
products has basically now drawn in armed groups
now that are using militia style tactics, like
you said, helicopters and what have you.
Unfortunately, more than a thousand rangers, from what
I understand, have actually been killed in the
last decade, right?
And this is according to the International Ranger
(30:19):
Federation, the IRF.
So what new kinds of risks are rangers
on the ground facing when poachers evolve into
more militarised and clandestine economies?
Okay, I would like to go back to
the IRF report.
(30:41):
Just to mention some few things on that.
We have, in Kenya, we have the Ranger
Association, which I'm the vice chairman of it.
So I've been participating in the World Ranger
Congresses, which happens every three years.
(31:02):
And like for 2014, one happened in France.
2019, the other one happened in Nepal.
The other one, the ninth one happened in
the US.
And the next one in the year 2027
will happen in Peru.
(31:26):
We also have what we call World Ranger
Day that happens worldwide every year.
So that the first of July is a
World Ranger Day.
We have made efforts to bring, especially on
the World Ranger Day, to bring rangers together
from different conservancies.
Because each area has a different challenge.
(31:49):
This is bringing them together.
And we share a lot of experiences, challenges,
and all that.
And among the reports that we normally do
is to do what we call role of
rangers.
For example, if we've got rangers in conservancy,
or in parks, or in game reserves, that
maybe lost their life, maybe in a contact
(32:11):
fighting poachers.
Maybe he was killed by a buffalo.
Maybe he died in an accident while on
duty.
So normally each area will bring the report
of how many rangers died in their area.
In Kenya, how many rangers died.
So for the last few years, the worst,
the biggest cause of death, the biggest number
(32:35):
of rangers that have died were in DRC
Congo, in some parks also in Asia.
So DRC Congo, we've got the rebels who
attack ranger camps, destroy, they do poaching and
all that so that they can be able
to get funding to support their activities.
(32:59):
That is in DRC Congo.
In places like India and all that, we've
had people being killed by a tiger or
something or an elephant, trampled on by an
elephant and all that.
So normally we combine all these reports and
get the number of people who died while
on duty.
Now, the other thing just on the same
(33:21):
is that these international ranger congresses, we normally
look for support to send the rangers from
Kenya or from these other countries to attend
that depending on where that is going to
happen.
So all this will bring rangers together and
you'll find that 600 rangers will come and
meet at a conference and share differences and
(33:43):
the challenges they have had in their work.
In Kenya, yes, we are doing that.
Of late, we have also started African ranger
congress processes and the first one was done
in South Africa.
The second one happened in Botswana.
The third one happened here in Kenya.
We organised it and we had like 29
(34:04):
African countries sending their rangers to Kenya for
the conference.
We invited the conservancies, we invited the marine
parks, we invited KWS and we had a
third African ranger congress.
We have shared a lot from the field,
from your experience from A, B, C, D
and all that normally trickles down is that
(34:25):
most of the challenges is that, okay, one,
we don't have a standard salary for the
community rangers.
Okay.
The other thing is we don't have adequate
equipment to allow them to work in the
field.
For example, lack of vehicles, lack of uniforms,
lack of training, lack of equipments that are
(34:47):
required for all this work.
The other main thing is the insurance.
If you get, if a ranger from those
communities or that private, if you die in
an accident or you're injured or maybe you're
trampled upon by an elephant, you don't have
an insurance that covers you.
(35:08):
But we are lucky enough that recently the
task trust, which is under Prince Charles, no,
Prince William.
Okay.
He's now going to support the community rangers
to cover the insurance.
But we still have to go to look
for funding to do salaries, good salary, do
(35:31):
capacity building, training them on the standard ranger
system and all that.
So let me ask a question.
In terms of the whole aspect of shared
experiences, obviously it helps us grow and to
learn from whatever is going on.
And that in turns should lend itself to
(35:53):
rangers being able to be prepared when dealing
with the kind of sophistication that we have
with these militia almost type poachers.
From your personal experience, have you ever been
caught in any kind of attacks, any conflicts?
And how prepared were you?
Was it part of the shared experiences that
(36:14):
allowed you to be prepared?
But I'd like to know more so about
what happened and then how prepared you were
and what the results were, obviously.
You're still here, so obviously it helps.
Yes.
In Samburu, I have been in contact with
the poachers.
And I was working in a rhino unit
(36:36):
up in the Mathews Rangers.
So one time, immediately I reported to the
station.
This was after the rains.
Now, you know, everything was relaxed and the
poachers came and killed elephants and rhinos in
the Mathews Rangers.
It's called Kitty's Rhino Unit.
So we were involved in a contact with
(36:56):
bandits, poachers that time.
In Savo East, we also had the same.
And it's normally very difficult that you are
fighting with the poachers and you lose one
of your men or they lose you.
So it's a very difficult situation.
Yes, I have been involved in contact with
(37:17):
poachers and our men were injured.
And also, on the other side, there was
also casualties on their side.
So you've been shot at?
Yes.
Okay.
And I need you to explain to me
how, I mean, I know it's...
I'm not saying a lot of people see
how things are in movies and how people
(37:38):
are very heroic, as in what was going
through your mind at the time?
Are you thinking, my family, my siblings, whatever
the case may be?
What was, when you were being attacked, and
I'm sure it's not just the one time,
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but
what emotions were you going through at the
time?
Okay, one, when there is poaching, we know
that it's bandits, it's poachers that have come
(38:00):
into the area.
But we were only targeting a type of
poachers because locally there were people, people did
not have illegal firearms and they also did
not know.
So the poachers will come and use the
local people to show them the drinking points
of the animals and where the animals are
available.
They do not just come and start poaching
(38:22):
today, they will come and, you know...
Wrecking?
Wrecking the area, you know, send the local
people to go to buy them foodstuffs, send
the local people to give them the intelligence
of the area.
Where are the rangers?
Where are they this week?
And, you know, and all that.
So also when poaching happens, okay, we normally
(38:42):
try to prevent it before it happens.
But you know, these people know the area
as well.
So they may use this route because they
know the elephants are there.
They may use this route because these are
drinking points of the rhinos.
So you plan, when you plan to do
your patrol, where do you want to go
this time?
Where do you think is the best?
What area do you think is vulnerable for
(39:04):
you to send your patrol?
So that is what determines and what you
have to brief your people that this is
what you expect just in case we get
in contact with the poachers.
The other thing is that normally the poachers
may ambush you.
You are going to that direction and maybe
(39:25):
they see you before or they hear about
you so they will lay an ambush if
they want to fight with you.
But you see, most of the time is
that they will try to kill the animals
and run out of the area because it's
also, they don't also want to lose their
life.
So it happened that we were involved in
a contact and one person was injured.
(39:46):
Poachers were killed to say that.
And then the other thing is you as
a leader, as a ranger in charge of
the rangers, what do you do?
One is try to see if you can
be able to give first aid to this
injured person.
Try to evacuate him from that area.
And also what is going to happen is
(40:08):
that you do not leave the area because
you are not sure whether they have laid
another ambush for you.
So it's really very dangerous.
The other thing is if one of your
people have been killed.
So it's you now to do what we
call round defence and then you make sure
(40:28):
that this one is available, this one is
available.
If that one is not available, then what
action do you take?
What you do is you don't continue fighting
with them if they have run out of
the area.
It's for you now to come and mobilise
this person.
If he can still be rescued, yes, you
rescue.
If he's not, then you do the procedures
that you do.
(40:48):
But now what happens is that how do
you convince your rangers now that it's still
safe for them to work as rangers?
What benefit will this be to you and
your family?
And that is why we are really emphasising
on insurance, better training, better salaries because of
(41:09):
that.
In these other setups is that it's only
you who is known that you're a ranger
but nobody knows about your family.
What is going to happen to your family?
Exactly.
And that's why in the IRF, we had
what we call the Chitwan Declaration.
This was in Nepal 2019 that we are
(41:29):
trying to address all those problems.
And with the IRF have been sort of
fundraising to support the families of the people
who died on line of duty, be it
through bandits or accident or animal has killed
you or something like that.
So sometimes they have other families that have
benefited.
(41:50):
They come and put up a roof for
you, a house for you or even educate
your children.
Okay.
I want to switch gears now and look
at the aspect of mentality, cultures and things
like that but more so to the aspect
of myths, I'd say myths, markets and beliefs
because they all are very much intertwined.
(42:11):
Pagolins, is it?
Scales.
Yeah, but they're armed.
It's not the spiny armed anteater.
It's like, it looks like a spiny armed.
Yeah, it's a pagolin.
Yeah.
And then there's an anteater.
It's a different animal.
No, but I'm saying they have the same
kind of posture.
Okay.
But okay.
But anyway, so pagolins is one thing, right?
(42:33):
They probably remain the most trafficked mammals on
earth.
Again, this is a report from UNODC.
Demand is driven by beliefs, which we talked
about with no, absolutely no scientific basis but
with a lot of market influence, right?
So why does the virility myth around rhino
(42:54):
horns or the catering that is found in
rhino horns and found in pagolin scales, why
does that persist?
Why does that myth persist?
And who benefits most from it?
Well, for the rhino horn myth is that
(43:16):
we came when poaching was going on.
We learned about poaching.
We learned about why this poaching is happening.
As we also read from the Chinese reports
is that rhino horn is used as an
(43:37):
aphrodisiac or for some ailments or something like
that.
The same with the pagolins.
Pagolins is why the demand is there because
the Chinese will use it to make the
medicine for maybe some ailments like gout, like
arthritis, like that.
(43:59):
But at the moment, we do not have
any scientific proof that this one is working.
But before that, we'll still lose pagolins.
We'll still lose rhinos for that purpose.
So let me ask the question then.
(44:19):
Because for a rhino horn, you know, it
just hangs here.
It's not really deep rooted into the bone.
It's something that you can cut, you know,
just like when you can be able to
cut your fingers, I mean, your nails.
But there's no traffickers for human toenails and
fingernails.
(44:39):
No.
Sorry, I mean, that aspect of myth and
beliefs.
So do traffickers actually then deliberately exploit these
myths to say, you've said there's absolutely no
scientific proof at all, yet there is still
trafficking.
So the aspect of, do they actually exploit
these myths?
(45:01):
I don't know whether it's a point of
ignorance or anything like that.
And what message would you yourself send directly
to the buyers who keep the markets alive?
Is that those myths are not true.
One, traditionally, we use herbs for ailments.
You know, we've got for stomach problems, for
(45:23):
high blood pressure, gout and arthritis.
We use herbs at home and even for
malaria and even for any type of ailment.
And in this world, how many people have
arthritis or these ailments?
It's a very big number of people.
(45:44):
But we do not have rhinos that will
be able to support that.
No.
We do not even have pangolins that will
be able to support that if we are
to use them for medical purposes.
So the message is, let the world explore
(46:05):
ways of getting the medicinal products for the
ailments that exist.
You know, the world is not, the art
is not growing, but the population is growing.
(46:25):
And the wildlife is decreasing because of these
external pressures, be it poaching, be it, you
know, land fragmentation, infrastructure and all that.
So competition for resources, basically.
Okay.
So now I've asked to look at, in
every conversation, and conservation and wildlife is not
(46:47):
any different, there's always going to be an
aspect of politics, especially politics.
And I'm looking at politics in the corridors,
basically.
Now, according to the AWF, more than 70
% of East Africa's historic wildlife corridors have
been narrowed or blocked.
These pressures shape both Kenya, Kenya's community, obviously,
(47:11):
the community's conservancy, well, the models for conservancy
here in Kenya, and also in Tanzania, right?
And how they drive this kind of approach.
So what stands out most to you as
the most important similarities and differences between the
Kenya-Tanzania conservation models?
(47:34):
One is that, you know, political and legal
challenges are one of the main challenges for
conservation in Kenya and Tanzania.
Because land, you know, things related to land
ownership.
(47:54):
Who does this area belong to?
Does it belong to the government?
Does it belong to the community?
Does it belong to an investor or something
like that?
So also the jurisdiction, where this activity happens.
And maybe the law enforcement.
(48:18):
So some of the solutions that we can
be able to to do is, we, one
is that, you know, like Masai Mara and
Serengeti.
It's a Masai here and a Masai there.
So the wildlife have no boundaries, but people
have.
So the thing is that we should be
(48:38):
able to engage both communities, engage the government,
so that we are able to do maybe
something like joint anti-poaching patrols between the
rangers there and the rangers here.
That is one way.
The other way is engaging the communities in
(49:00):
two places.
For example, in a place called Magadi, Shomboli
and all that.
Normally during the dry season, the Masais will
drive their livestock to Tanzania.
And when we do not also have rain
on the other side and we have rains
on this, they can access the grazing fields.
So we should all work in collaboration with
that.
(49:21):
So that we can be able, so the
government side and the government side of Kenya,
they should be able to support the community
so that those wildlife corridors are not blocked.
So that they can be able, there is
free movement of wildlife in those places.
(49:41):
Also in the joint anti-poaching measures is
that at the moment there is a lot
of technology that is being used, like the
use of drones, the use of maybe they
call it smart systems and all that.
Try to track us on colours and things
like that.
Colouring of the animals.
(50:02):
So if that information could also be shared,
because the challenge now we have around Amboseli
area, the big matriarch elephants will go into
Tanzania and Tanzania they do spot hunting.
And if there is an investor or a
rich man who would want to shoot this
matriarch, so that matriarch will not come back
(50:24):
to Kenya.
And maybe it is the one that was
the big of that family or the one
that has brought up the whole of that
elephant family.
So there should be collaboration.
For example, now when the livestock, I think
that when the livestock will go into Tanzania,
normally there has been through movement that is
(50:48):
allowed.
But I don't know change of the administration
may not work as the same as the
other one has been working.
The other thing is there has to be
a lot of environmental education.
Because like now you go to Samburu and
like Ibia, people have benefited from conservation.
(51:09):
So that's why I said they take it
as a second cow.
So the public should be educated on wildlife,
their movement, their migration patterns.
And also, you know, the wildlife have also
to buy their way.
They have to benefit from that in order
for them to be able to appreciate.
(51:30):
Also, wildlife corridors, you know, people should be
taught that this is a wildlife corridor.
So you should not go and do your
farming there.
You should not go and put up your
settlement there because you're going to be in
conflict with this animal.
Okay, as we bring this home, there's a
few things I want to pick up a
(51:50):
bit later.
But for now, let's just look at the
future of East African conservation.
Africa, as everybody talks about, is the youngest
continent.
Yet less than 5% of conservation jobs
go to youth.
This is according to the African Union.
At the same time, climate volatility is reshaping
ecosystems and the demands placed on rangers, right?
(52:13):
So my question is, if you had to
identify three urgent policy priorities for East African
conservation, what would they be?
One is collaboration.
Okay, one is cross-border wildlife migration corridors.
Is that all these countries, Kenya, Tanzania, Ethiopia,
(52:38):
Uganda, must legally secure the migration, migratory corridors.
For example, it's working in Kenya, in Amboseli,
and on the other side of Tanzania.
Okay.
They work in collaboration and they share information.
So this should be clear that these are
(52:59):
migration routes.
The other thing is unified anti-poaching and
intelligent cooperation.
We share information on poaching, on environmental destruction.
Okay.
On anything like that.
That one should be the regional livestock grazing
(53:24):
grounds.
For example, during the drought seasons.
So there should be that agreement that now,
yeah, for example, people in Samburu have been
going almost up to Somalia or Ethiopia borders
looking for grass.
So they have an express way of doing
that.
In Tanzania and Kenya, it should not be
(53:47):
a very big problem because the Maasai's here
are the same Maasai's there.
On the other side, their culture is the
same.
Language is the same.
I mean, way of life is the same.
So those systems must work.
Okay.
So as you look ahead, what gives you
hope and what keeps you a bit concerned
(54:09):
about conservation as a profession and a livelihood
for the next generation?
I know there's not many people who teach.
Most people want to become doctors, lawyers, and
what have you.
I don't know anybody who said, oh, we're
teaching a course on being a ranger in
school.
So what does the future hold?
Well, I think one, I'll give an example
(54:34):
of Samburu.
Most of the conservancies now are the biggest
employers of the youth because they are employed
as rangers.
They're employed as, so this tourism, this conservation
has brought tourism.
So this tourism is employing a lot of
(54:54):
youth.
It's even employing kinamama because they have good
projects that they undertake in a conservancy.
So for us, it is the biggest employer
now than the people who are employed by
the government.
Okay.
That is one.
Two, we should embrace conservation because we come
from a pastoral area, a very dry land,
(55:17):
semi-arid area.
So we do not look at doing farming
because it's not going to favour the situation
there.
So this keeping of livestock, we can combine
it with the conservation of wildlife and environment.
That is the thing that is going to
give us a likelihood.
(55:38):
Okay.
Any personal note that you'd want to now
say, okay, fine, with regards to invite people
to the best places that they should be
able to see particular animals.
Lykipia has black panthers, don't they?
Yeah.
How many?
Just the one black panther?
Because that's one I would want to go
and see.
And the thing is, the animal orphanage here
(55:59):
is obviously looking after animals that have been
injured.
But we're also looking at commercial.
I mean, if people were to say we
want to go and see, it would be
natural to see the black panther in the
wild.
But what happens when you then start saying,
oh, because it's bringing tourism and it's bringing
money, we're going to then captively breed black
panthers.
In the wild, it's not possible.
But if you do a captive breeding, that's
(56:20):
where I'm looking at because I would love
to see a black panther.
If I'm going to have to spend four
hours out driving and I'm not advocating for
it, but there's a likelihood people say, okay,
captive breeding, you want to come and see
a black panther, come to Lykipia and you
can see it in the cage there.
Let me tell you is that Kenya is
(56:42):
a very blessed country.
One, each area is unique on its own.
For example, Masai Mara and Serengeti is unique
because of the migration.
You come to Northern Kenya, above the equator
is where we live.
And this place has special animals that are
not found in other places.
(57:04):
For example, you'll see the gravy zebra.
We are having the biggest number of the
gravy zebra in the whole world.
You will see the Somali ostrich.
You will see the reticulated giraffe.
We've got three types of giraffes in Kenya.
Masai giraffe, reticulated giraffe, and Rothschild giraffe.
We've got the Bissa oryx.
(57:28):
It's only existing on that part of the
world.
And then now we've got the black panther
in Lykipia.
That is also unique in that area.
You go to Mount Kenya, they have the
bongo.
So each area is special on its own.
So what would have been able, what would
have been good for us to do is
(57:50):
to diversify activities in tourism.
For example, Masai Mara has been all the
time, servos and all that.
So now opening up the Northern Corridor, I
mean the Northern part of Kenya for tourism
will really work.
Because in tourism, we've got different tourists that
(58:10):
will come to there.
There are those who will come and see
the scenery.
There are those who will come and see
birding.
There are those who will come and see
wildlife.
Others will just want to change their way,
come to see a different part of the
world.
So we've got the opportunity.
(58:31):
What are we doing in terms of getting
Tanzanians, Kenyans, Ugandans, whatever the case may be,
to say, listen, I don't want to sit
on my TV and watch it.
I want to actually go out to Lykipia.
Like I'm saying, I want to go to
Lykipia and see a black leopard.
Now, one is that we have to improve
in our infrastructure.
We have to make those destinations reachable.
(58:53):
That is one.
Two, we have to do a lot of
marketing.
Kenya is getting a lot of money from,
generating a lot of money from tourism.
So we should also use that to market
the country.
We also have to develop what we call
domestic tourism.
We do not only want to rely on
those places.
(59:14):
Remember the challenge we had when we had
COVID.
Yeah.
So, and a place like Egypt, a place
like France, a place like even places in
the US, some parks are even getting more
than 2 million visitors in a year.
Maybe the whole country here, maybe we are
getting about maybe 1 million or even less.
(59:35):
So we should be able to develop infrastructure,
do a lot of aggressive marketing and do
not underestimate local tourism.
For example, we have a place now, it's
called Ololoki Mountain or Sapashi.
On the way to Marsabit, it's a very
big flat top hill.
(59:56):
It's becoming very famous.
You know, we've seen people even Nairobi, the
youth, you know, hiring vehicles to come and
take a picture of there.
They go and spend, see the Samburus there,
just do their tourism there.
So we should also be encouraging.
Let's not reserve all these things for other
people, but also for us.
Okay.
Michael, thank you so much.
It's been an absolute pleasure having you here.
(01:00:18):
Hope to see you soon.
I think there's a lot of more of
this conversation we need to unpack, but for
now, that's all the time we have.
But again, thank you so much for the
enlightening aspect and for taking the time to
join us.
Thank you.
And you're very welcome.
So this conversation reminds us that conservation in
East Africa is not a distant wilderness story.
It is a daily negotiation between people, land
(01:00:39):
and wildlife.
We have heard how rangers stand in that
gap, how communities carry the cost of conflict,
and how poaching networks and land pressures are
testing the limits of the systems meant to
protect these landscapes.
The choice is not between people and animals.
It's between short-term gains and long-term
survival between unmanaged exploitation and shared stewardship.
Michael's work shows that when communities are respected,
(01:01:02):
rangers are supported, and policies match reality on
the ground, conservation can still be a story
of possibility, not just loss.
The question is whether East Africa will act
in time to secure the future.
You've been listening to Panel 54, where we
rethink the world, one African perspective at a
time.
If this episode made you pause, reflect, or
reframe, share it, start a conversation, and tag
(01:01:23):
us in.
Find us on our social media handle at
panel54pod.
And don't forget to subscribe so you never
miss an episode.
Until next time, stay curious, stay grounded, and
remember, keep the lens clear.
Well, for the rhino horn myth is that
we came when poaching was going on.
We learned about poaching.
We learned about why this poaching is happening.
As we also read from the Chinese reports
is that rhino horn is used as an
(00:23):
aphrodisiac or for some ailments or something like
that.
The same with the pangolins, pangolins is a
why the demand is there because the Chinese
will use it to make the medicine for
maybe some ailments like gout, like arthritis, like
(00:43):
that.
But at the moment, we do not have
any scientific proof that this one is working.
From Cairo to Cape Town, Lagos to Lamu,
54 nations, one continent, countless perspectives.
Hi, I'm Owero Njoroge, welcome to panel 54,
a global perspective through an African lens.
This is the podcast where we unpack power,
(01:04):
policy, people, and the paradoxes that define our
time with nuance, with history, and with deliberate
commitment to context.
This is not punditry.
It's a perspective.
It's not a briefing.
It's a reframing, and it starts right here.
(01:28):
Today we turn to East African conservation at
a moment when Africa is losing nearly 4
million hectares of forest every year, according to
the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation.
As landscapes shrink, contact between people and wildlife
intensifies, and rangers carry more of the risk.
Across Kenya's conservancies, human-wildlife conflict continues to
(01:48):
rise.
Kenya Wildlife Service records more than 20,000
incidents a year from crop destruction to livestock
losses.
At the same time, wildlife crime has become
more organised.
Traffic reports that rhino horns has sold for
more than $60,000 a kilo in some
markets, which places entire ecosystems under pressure.
Our guest, Michael Lennai-Maido, works directly with
(02:10):
rangers, pastoralists, and conservancy teams across these landscapes.
He brings a grounded understanding of what protection
looks like on the front line.
So today we explore what it means to
be a ranger in this environment, how communities
are coping with conflict, how poaching networks operate
across borders, and what future East African conservation
is building for the next generation.
(02:32):
So my question would be, what does a
modern ranger conservancy person actually do in their
involved day-to-day?
Okay, thank you very much.
You know, first introduce myself.
My name is Michael Lennai-Maido.
I am from Samburu, and I have been
(02:55):
a ranger for like 20 to 25 years
now.
I have been working as a ranger in
different places in the country.
I did it in Samburu, up in northern
Kenya, in Ilngwesi, up in Laikipia, and then
South Rift, that is in Magadi area, Luita
(03:17):
Hills, and all those places.
But I've only also had an opportunity to
work in Meru National Park and Sabo East
National Park.
Yes, so a ranger has become a very
important person, because they protect our resources, and
their work is not as easy as people
(03:39):
think.
One is that being a ranger, you make
many more enemies than friends, because you're protecting
the resource that other people would want to
benefit from.
So what I say is that behind every
living animal in Kenya, a ranger must be
(04:00):
behind.
So we have two types of rangers.
We have the rangers that work for the
government, and the community rangers.
We started calling them community scouts, but now
they have graduated, and now they are called
community rangers.
So these people work in very difficult conditions.
(04:22):
One is that some of them may have
a salary, they may not have accommodation, they
may not have the equipment that they require
to perform their duties.
Again, the government rangers and the community rangers,
the threat is the same, because they are
looking after this wildlife, say rhino, elephant, and
(04:43):
even the cats.
So they face the same type of threats.
And the community rangers now have got more
challenges, because one, they may know about the
ground where they're operating from, their map, they
(05:04):
can be able to gather intelligence, they can
be able to communicate with locals, and also
locals will be able to volunteer information for
them that they require for their work.
For example, if you go to Samburu now,
or Maasai land, or Laikipia, if a community
member sees a wounded animal, or a dead
animal, or a sick animal, they'll report to
(05:24):
the community rangers, or they report to them
through their channels, maybe through a community member,
or something like that, or through the leadership
of the area.
So, among the biggest challenges, and the differences,
is that the government rangers are equipped, because
the government has revenue to train them, to
provide them with the equipment.
(05:45):
Equipment can be weapons, can be uniforms, can
be food, can be transport, can be all
that.
But for the community ranger setups, depends on
the area, and also the donors that they
have in that area.
When we started the community ranger system, is
that we were only able to raise money
only for salary.
(06:09):
Okay.
We didn't have money for food, we didn't
have money for the equipment, we didn't even
have money for training, and all that.
So, this varies from an area to an
area.
So, the biggest challenges now we have in
the field, you know, if I may just
go back, we have, like, in the government
(06:30):
side, we have, like, 23 national parks, 28
marine parks, and game reserves, and all that.
But in community, we have got, like, 250
community conservancies.
Right.
So, and the enrolment for the rangers now,
we have, like, 5,000 community rangers in
(06:51):
the country.
I don't know what they have in the
government now in KWS.
Also, ranger doesn't only mean a ranger that
works for KWS or a ranger that works
for the community.
We also have Kenya Forest Guards, they are
also rangers.
Marine park rangers are also part of rangers.
We may have the government and also the
(07:11):
community rangers.
So, the biggest challenge is for the community
rangers.
Maybe they did not have access to funding
or to donors or to something like that.
But we are glad to report now that
in most of the community conservancies, most of
them have got maybe tourist facilities in their
(07:33):
conservancies.
And in these tourist facilities, the rangers will
visit and pay conservation fees or whatever type
of arrangement they have.
And this money will be used to, or
to facilitate them in what they are doing.
But now the other big challenge is that
the community rangers may not have the required
training for them to be able to perform
(07:54):
their duties.
For example, you know, the training that the
government rangers have, you know, they may be
able to have maybe trainings on safety, on
how to handle firearms, on administration on that.
Maybe anti-poaching patrol techniques and all that,
(08:16):
you know, first aid, court proceeding trainings and
all that.
So, that is a point that the community
rangers lack.
And it's because they do not have funding
to do that.
And also, they may not have the leadership
that will be able to provide this for
them.
(08:36):
So, outside of the research, I mean, obviously
the glaring point there is, if I was
to underline this is to say resource constraints
are one of the things that are hampering.
You've done Samburu, you've done Laikipia, Meru National
Park.
So, you know the terrain as it were.
And the reason I'm asking this question is
because it's not one size fits all.
(08:57):
You've got the flatlands, you've got your mountains,
you've got plains, you've got your marshes and
bogs and what have you.
So, what's the differences in terms of the
terrains and also more specifically, actually the culture
and the conflict patterns, all conflict patterns, right?
So, you have a culture, you've got conflict
patterns.
How does that shape how rangers operate on
the ground?
(09:18):
Because there must be an aspect of culture.
Like I said, not one size fits all.
So, you'd have to say, okay, this culture,
this particular group of people would not respond
well if I act in a particular way.
And also, like I said, you've got different
areas to cover and different kinds of conflicts,
obviously, within this place, these other areas.
So, how does that play into how people
(09:41):
actually respond?
Okay.
I am among the people who started working
with the community conservancies first.
I'll tell you the first community conservancy we
had in Kenya was Olchororewa, which belongs, I
think, to the Ntutu family.
And then the second conservancy was Ilingwesi up
in Laikipia.
The third conservancy was in Samburu, a place
(10:04):
called Namunyak, where I come from, where I
was first employed as its coordinator.
One is that it was very difficult to
convince the community about starting conservation in their
area.
One, because there was always suspicion that maybe
this is land grabbing, this is ABCD.
But what we did was to mobilise the
(10:26):
community members, you know, the youth, people with
disabilities, the leadership, and all the opinion leaders,
and even the church leaders.
So, we took them for a trip to
Olchororewa to see what those people are doing.
Funny enough, you know, we have the same
elephants at home that are in Mara, that
(10:48):
are in Samburu Game Reserve, that are here
and there in any protected area.
The same buffalo.
But there was no arrangement on how the
community will be able to benefit from their
wildlife.
So, that is when we started now educating
people about wildlife, the importance of wildlife, about
tourism, and all that.
(11:09):
So, later on, when they accepted, you know,
they sort of set aside an area for
the conservancy.
And most of the community members will give
you the area that they least want to
use.
Let them have that area.
It's spontaneous, there isn't water, and all that.
But after years of doing that, we started
(11:32):
getting investors to come and put up hotels.
We started employing community rangers.
And we started employing, and you know, when
there is a facility, you know, obviously, the
facility will need driver guides, will need...
So, you're creating jobs.
So, that has created jobs.
That is point number one.
Point number two is that after now the
(11:54):
community started benefiting, now their attitude towards animals
changed.
And it changed because of the benefits that
they started having.
One of the benefits is that job employment.
And then also through that revenue, they have
an arrangement that they have community committees.
That these community committees, they may have finance
(12:16):
committee, conservation committee, security committee, and all that.
So, when there is an annual general meeting,
now the management will come and say, we
have made this amount of money.
Where do you want us to use this
money?
Because it has to come from the community.
So, others will be sending this money to
scholarships.
Others will be sending this money to medical
(12:38):
services.
For example, if they have sick people that
cannot be able to pay their bills, they
can be able to do that.
Development like maybe water systems, maybe development of
schools or a clinic or something like that.
So, all these things have changed the attitude
of the communities towards wildlife conservation.
Which conflict patterns stand out most clearly in
(13:01):
the Mara-Serengeti ecosystem from your vantage point?
Okay.
First, let's understand what this human wildlife conflict
is.
One is that we know that the human
population is growing.
So, there is always demand for land for
agriculture.
And they stay here for a bit of
(13:22):
time and then go there.
So, among the conflicts is that, one, the
drivers will always want to show their clients
the best.
That is one.
Two, also the investors will want to come
and put up structures.
You know, the facilities along the route, the
(13:46):
path so that their clients will have the
best.
So, those are some of the conflicts.
And then also overcrowding.
All vehicles in one point will always frustrate
the movement of the animals.
Because, you know, it's not only the wild
beasts that will come during the migration.
They come with zebras.
(14:08):
They come with gazelles and all that.
And, you know, crocodiles on the other side
of the river.
That's a natural thing.
It's a buffet for them, yeah.
Yeah.
So, it's just...
So, it's the drivers that cause conflicts.
It's the upcoming infrastructures that are coming in
(14:32):
to bring conflicts.
Because, obviously, you know, before you bring up
a facility, you have to make sure that
an environmental impact assessment has been done.
So that, is this going to favour this?
Is this going to work well with that
or not?
Is this going to conform with the movement
of the wildlife?
And that's all.
(14:53):
That is one of the conflicts that we
see in the Serengeti Mara ecosystem.
Okay.
And how is the coordination between Kenya and
Tanzania coming along in terms of now trying
to mitigate also the experiences of loss in
terms of when you have urgent responses?
(15:15):
Well, the Kenyan government and the Tanzanian government
have been working closely together, especially in the
protection of the wildlife corridors.
I'll give an example.
From the Chulus to Mukomasi, from Chulus to
(15:35):
the other side.
And then also along the, let's say, Magadi
area, that's the Shampole area, because of the
flamingos in lake.
So, they work in collaboration with also rangers
on the other side, let's say in Korongoro
conservation area, Tarangire, all that along the border.
(15:56):
So, also on Mara and Serengeti, is that
place called Sand River?
Such places.
So, they have been working in collaboration because
when the wild beasts are migrating into Kenya,
they will alert the other side that it's
coming.
And also, they do what they call joint
(16:17):
patrols, between those rangers on the other side
and rangers on this side.
So, those are working out very well.
Apart from these challenges that are people putting
in, you know, infrastructures on the corridor.
So, there is really a very big collaboration
in trying to protect those corridors.
Okay.
(16:38):
Now, on the aspect of loss, I want
to look at the other side of the
coin, right?
Yes, we lose a lot of animals to
poachers and things like that.
But there's, and this still ties into the
human wildlife conflict.
And I'm sure you've witnessed this yourself.
But if I was to look at one
single elephant, which can pretty much wipe out
a family's entire crop for that season.
(17:00):
And these are reports, again, which we can
find in the WWF.
The problem here is that compensation claims often
take many, many months, sometimes even years.
Which then leaves the households struggling, economically and
emotionally as well, I'm sure.
Because they're relying on those crops to be
(17:21):
able to put their children through school and
things like that.
But then, how communities are currently coping with
that kind of economic and emotional weight of
recurring loss to wildlife now coming in and
doing that, destroying crops and things like that?
Up in Samburu and maybe like Kipi and
Kajadu and the places that I have worked
(17:41):
in, is that there's quite a lot of...
Okay, we are not an agricultural sort of
ecosystem.
Okay.
You know, pastoralism.
What happens is that, you know, in the
agricultural area, if an elephant will come to
your farm, an elephant will require like 250
(18:04):
kilogrammes or kgs of grass or vegetation on
that.
It needs 180 litres of water.
So if an elephant infests your farm, it
will wipe out the whole thing.
Now, the big cats like the leopard, the
lion, or even the hyenas or the wild
(18:26):
dogs, those are the most notorious ones, you
know, they could wipe out the whole of
your...
Your cattle, your goods.
Your cattle and all that.
So sometimes there are a lot of retaliatory
killings of these animals.
So people could spear elephants, people could spear
or even poison, lace that meat that was
(18:48):
eaten by...
That goat that was eaten by a lion
or a wild...
I mean, wild dogs.
So there are those things that come up
with that.
But now, in Amboseli, there's a programme called
Big Life.
So they had set up sort of a
consolation fund for if your cow has been
(19:13):
killed by a lion, what is the market
for the cow?
Is it 30,000?
I think they pay you that.
If it's a donkey, they pay you for
that.
If it's a goat, they'll take the market
price and then they compensate you.
So there have been...
I think they had some donors who will
be able to fund that.
That is one.
If my goat is eaten or my cow
(19:34):
is killed and it's dragged out into the
bush, how do I verify that it was
killed by a wild...
So I can say, okay, fine, Big Life,
I've lost ABCD.
How do I verify and not basically try
to run a scam?
That is one of the duties of a
community ranger or the KWS ranger.
Because they have to come to the field,
(19:56):
verify this was killed by a lion, verify
this was killed by a leopard or something
like that.
And then they have forms that they normally
fill.
Then that one will be forwarded to the
compensation committee.
If it's a human loss, maybe it has
been killed by an elephant, the KWS will
come and verify, they have forms that will
be filled.
(20:16):
And then from there, now the government normally
now compensates for the human loss.
Okay, okay.
For agricultural sort of destruction, I think they
have the agricultural officer, they bring him on
the ground and assess the acreage and all
that.
So we've got those systems that have been
(20:37):
put in place in every county or in
every district or in every centre.
You know, there is the government representation, be
it a doctor, be it an agricultural officer,
the KWS station or if it's a forest
department.
So there are those systems that have been
put in place.
So let me ask, so when growing up,
obviously we watch cartoons and things like that
(21:00):
and you'd always see a scarecrow standing in
the middle of a crop field.
So in terms of this particular on-ground,
elephant coming in or lions coming to or
leopards, what mitigation strategies have actually genuinely worked?
I know some people use sound to get
rid of avians and things like that, but
where have they actually worked and where can
they be replicated so that we reduce this
(21:22):
kind of thing?
I think I remember like four to five
methods.
One is that the scarecrow, especially for crop
reading animals.
The other thing is that they have tried
to put fences.
For example, like Aberdeen National Park, most of
it is fenced off.
So that has reduced the problem.
(21:43):
In Amboseli, they have also, in this group
branches, they have fenced off some places that
are, I don't know what you call that,
you know, the places they use for irrigation
and all that so that the animals do
not reach their produce.
The other thing is there's pipa, pilipili.
(22:04):
So another thing is that if you, if
you grow them around your farm, the elephants
will not go near.
The other thing is there are people who
are putting up honey, honey, honey, honey hives?
Bee hives, bee hives.
So if an elephant maybe goes around that
(22:25):
area and maybe a swarm of bees will
come to eat, then it will obviously go
back.
And then there are others who normally put
trenches before they, you know, as a barrier
to their farms.
I mean, for things like the cats, you
know, like the masses, the samburos, you know,
will put up those stony bushes to prevent
(22:46):
them.
And then other things they are getting into
now is that there are organisations that provide
lighting.
So you could put up a light near
your bomba and obviously a hyena will not
come into it.
Leopard will not come into it.
So there are those methods that they have
tried to use and they are working.
Okay.
I want to now switch gears to poaching.
(23:07):
So we've got the migration, which one of
the big things that we've been seeing, but
poaching and organised business.
Because poaching is actually a business.
So according to the UNODC, they rank wildlife
trafficking among the most, the top global criminal
traits, right?
Africa lost more than, how many was it?
(23:28):
100,000 elephants between the year 2007 and
2014.
Which basically goes to show how coordinated these
networks have actually started becoming.
And I'll come on to now the sophistication
a bit later.
But how would you describe the structure and
behaviour of modern poaching networks operating within this
(23:51):
region?
Okay.
Let's go to poaching and illegal wildlife trade.
Okay.
So there's still very big demand for ivory,
for rhino horn and even other wildlife products.
(24:12):
So there is a illegal trade, which involves
the killing of an animal in the field
and then by a poacher.
And then the poacher will hand offer the
trophy or the product to a cartel that
(24:32):
will eventually take it to a market.
So in around 1990s, we had like only
16 elephants left in Kenya.
Of late now we have got like 35
,000 elephants in Kenya.
Okay.
You know, there were so many tremendous efforts
(24:54):
put in between the rangers, the government rangers
and now with the community rangers.
If you go back, you'll find that 70
% of the wildlife normally lives within the
protected areas.
I mean, outside the protected areas.
It's only 25 that lives in there because
of, you know, movement, drought, wet seasons and
(25:18):
all that.
So you'll find that many, most of the
wildlife will live outside that is now in
the community areas.
And that is why there must be collaboration
between the government and the communities.
So there is an engagement that takes place
in there.
So what happens is that these wildlife poaching,
(25:41):
as I said, it's a poacher and then
the cartel and then the market.
Few years ago, there was rise in elephant
poaching in wildlife products and all that.
But you'll find that it's no longer the
normal business as it used to be.
It's an organised crime.
(26:02):
And more emphasis should be put in the
exit points where the products will go out
from.
For example, we've got the JKA, we've got
the Mombasa port whereby most of like the
Mombasa port, they have arrested a lot of,
you know, traffic of wildlife trophies or products.
(26:24):
So if the agencies have, the security agencies
have to work in collaboration, for example, the
KWS will need to work closely with the
Kenya police, with the, you call it KRA,
you know, where all these systems, you know,
work.
And there should be a vetting, very good
(26:46):
vetting of the people who are going to
be involved in this because these exit points
have been the biggest problem.
So the other thing is that the prices
for these products have shot, have gone up.
So everyone, you know, those organised cartels will
(27:06):
use every means to access the product that
they want.
For example, they can even use sophisticated, you
know, efforts, you know, they can use helicopters,
they can use negate, they can use anything.
They can even use the systems, you know,
to make sure that they have had their
product going to the markets that they want.
(27:27):
So wouldn't, depending on how you look at
it from that perspective, then wouldn't the, wouldn't
it make more sense or would it, is
there anything in place that would suggest that
you make the penalties for poaching a lot
stricter?
I'm not saying to the point where you
get to a death sentence, but they need
to make those, the penalties.
(27:50):
I don't know whether there's anything at the
moment that's been put together to say, okay,
fine, poachers will be remanded for the next
20 years for X amount of elephants killed
or whatever the case, or whichever animal basically.
I think the government has worked on that,
that now for, I understand for the penalty
(28:10):
will be like 20 to 25 years if
you're found with maybe a rhino horn or
an elephant tusks.
So I think that one has also discouraged
the people in the field from doing poaching.
That is one.
The other thing is because there are a
lot of eyes now looking for example, the
(28:31):
community, because they are benefiting from this wildlife.
So they wouldn't want to see it distracted.
So that is the other thing.
The other thing, the collaboration between the security
agencies, you know, the KWS is working closely
with the intelligence, with all that, with the
KRA, with the people mining, you know, these
Xs.
And I also understand in some places they
(28:52):
are now using the sniffer dogs, you know,
at these entry points, exit, exit points, not
entry points.
So I think all that is working out
positively.
Okay, so that collaboration.
And the other thing is, sorry, when, during
Obama's time, I think most of the markets
(29:14):
also outside have been closed.
And there has also been a lot of
campaigns into those ends like China, like all
those places that these products used to go
to.
So most of them have also been discouraged.
I'll come to the aspect of China.
So people like KWS and TANAPA, those collaborations
would point to the fact that our populations
(29:34):
of elephants have managed to jump up to
the 35,000 we're seeing right now.
Yes, yes.
Okay, now we mentioned sophistication.
You mentioned sophistication right now.
And you also touched on this aspect that
the value of wildlife products has drawn in.
The prices obviously are the ones that are
creating, yeah, driving the demand.
(29:56):
So now the value of that actual wildlife
products has basically now drawn in armed groups
now that are using militia style tactics, like
you said, helicopters and what have you.
Unfortunately, more than a thousand rangers, from what
I understand, have actually been killed in the
last decade, right?
And this is according to the International Ranger
(30:19):
Federation, the IRF.
So what new kinds of risks are rangers
on the ground facing when poachers evolve into
more militarised and clandestine economies?
Okay, I would like to go back to
the IRF report.
(30:41):
Just to mention some few things on that.
We have, in Kenya, we have the Ranger
Association, which I'm the vice chairman of it.
So I've been participating in the World Ranger
Congresses, which happens every three years.
(31:02):
And like for 2014, one happened in France.
2019, the other one happened in Nepal.
The other one, the ninth one happened in
the US.
And the next one in the year 2027
will happen in Peru.
(31:26):
We also have what we call World Ranger
Day that happens worldwide every year.
So that the first of July is a
World Ranger Day.
We have made efforts to bring, especially on
the World Ranger Day, to bring rangers together
from different conservancies.
Because each area has a different challenge.
(31:49):
This is bringing them together.
And we share a lot of experiences, challenges,
and all that.
And among the reports that we normally do
is to do what we call role of
rangers.
For example, if we've got rangers in conservancy,
or in parks, or in game reserves, that
maybe lost their life, maybe in a contact
(32:11):
fighting poachers.
Maybe he was killed by a buffalo.
Maybe he died in an accident while on
duty.
So normally each area will bring the report
of how many rangers died in their area.
In Kenya, how many rangers died.
So for the last few years, the worst,
the biggest cause of death, the biggest number
(32:35):
of rangers that have died were in DRC
Congo, in some parks also in Asia.
So DRC Congo, we've got the rebels who
attack ranger camps, destroy, they do poaching and
all that so that they can be able
to get funding to support their activities.
(32:59):
That is in DRC Congo.
In places like India and all that, we've
had people being killed by a tiger or
something or an elephant, trampled on by an
elephant and all that.
So normally we combine all these reports and
get the number of people who died while
on duty.
Now, the other thing just on the same
(33:21):
is that these international ranger congresses, we normally
look for support to send the rangers from
Kenya or from these other countries to attend
that depending on where that is going to
happen.
So all this will bring rangers together and
you'll find that 600 rangers will come and
meet at a conference and share differences and
(33:43):
the challenges they have had in their work.
In Kenya, yes, we are doing that.
Of late, we have also started African ranger
congress processes and the first one was done
in South Africa.
The second one happened in Botswana.
The third one happened here in Kenya.
We organised it and we had like 29
(34:04):
African countries sending their rangers to Kenya for
the conference.
We invited the conservancies, we invited the marine
parks, we invited KWS and we had a
third African ranger congress.
We have shared a lot from the field,
from your experience from A, B, C, D
and all that normally trickles down is that
(34:25):
most of the challenges is that, okay, one,
we don't have a standard salary for the
community rangers.
Okay.
The other thing is we don't have adequate
equipment to allow them to work in the
field.
For example, lack of vehicles, lack of uniforms,
lack of training, lack of equipments that are
(34:47):
required for all this work.
The other main thing is the insurance.
If you get, if a ranger from those
communities or that private, if you die in
an accident or you're injured or maybe you're
trampled upon by an elephant, you don't have
an insurance that covers you.
(35:08):
But we are lucky enough that recently the
task trust, which is under Prince Charles, no,
Prince William.
Okay.
He's now going to support the community rangers
to cover the insurance.
But we still have to go to look
for funding to do salaries, good salary, do
(35:31):
capacity building, training them on the standard ranger
system and all that.
So let me ask a question.
In terms of the whole aspect of shared
experiences, obviously it helps us grow and to
learn from whatever is going on.
And that in turns should lend itself to
(35:53):
rangers being able to be prepared when dealing
with the kind of sophistication that we have
with these militia almost type poachers.
From your personal experience, have you ever been
caught in any kind of attacks, any conflicts?
And how prepared were you?
Was it part of the shared experiences that
(36:14):
allowed you to be prepared?
But I'd like to know more so about
what happened and then how prepared you were
and what the results were, obviously.
You're still here, so obviously it helps.
Yes.
In Samburu, I have been in contact with
the poachers.
And I was working in a rhino unit
(36:36):
up in the Mathews Rangers.
So one time, immediately I reported to the
station.
This was after the rains.
Now, you know, everything was relaxed and the
poachers came and killed elephants and rhinos in
the Mathews Rangers.
It's called Kitty's Rhino Unit.
So we were involved in a contact with
(36:56):
bandits, poachers that time.
In Savo East, we also had the same.
And it's normally very difficult that you are
fighting with the poachers and you lose one
of your men or they lose you.
So it's a very difficult situation.
Yes, I have been involved in contact with
(37:17):
poachers and our men were injured.
And also, on the other side, there was
also casualties on their side.
So you've been shot at?
Yes.
Okay.
And I need you to explain to me
how, I mean, I know it's...
I'm not saying a lot of people see
how things are in movies and how people
(37:38):
are very heroic, as in what was going
through your mind at the time?
Are you thinking, my family, my siblings, whatever
the case may be?
What was, when you were being attacked, and
I'm sure it's not just the one time,
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but
what emotions were you going through at the
time?
Okay, one, when there is poaching, we know
that it's bandits, it's poachers that have come
(38:00):
into the area.
But we were only targeting a type of
poachers because locally there were people, people did
not have illegal firearms and they also did
not know.
So the poachers will come and use the
local people to show them the drinking points
of the animals and where the animals are
available.
They do not just come and start poaching
(38:22):
today, they will come and, you know...
Wrecking?
Wrecking the area, you know, send the local
people to go to buy them foodstuffs, send
the local people to give them the intelligence
of the area.
Where are the rangers?
Where are they this week?
And, you know, and all that.
So also when poaching happens, okay, we normally
(38:42):
try to prevent it before it happens.
But you know, these people know the area
as well.
So they may use this route because they
know the elephants are there.
They may use this route because these are
drinking points of the rhinos.
So you plan, when you plan to do
your patrol, where do you want to go
this time?
Where do you think is the best?
What area do you think is vulnerable for
(39:04):
you to send your patrol?
So that is what determines and what you
have to brief your people that this is
what you expect just in case we get
in contact with the poachers.
The other thing is that normally the poachers
may ambush you.
You are going to that direction and maybe
(39:25):
they see you before or they hear about
you so they will lay an ambush if
they want to fight with you.
But you see, most of the time is
that they will try to kill the animals
and run out of the area because it's
also, they don't also want to lose their
life.
So it happened that we were involved in
a contact and one person was injured.
(39:46):
Poachers were killed to say that.
And then the other thing is you as
a leader, as a ranger in charge of
the rangers, what do you do?
One is try to see if you can
be able to give first aid to this
injured person.
Try to evacuate him from that area.
And also what is going to happen is
(40:08):
that you do not leave the area because
you are not sure whether they have laid
another ambush for you.
So it's really very dangerous.
The other thing is if one of your
people have been killed.
So it's you now to do what we
call round defence and then you make sure
(40:28):
that this one is available, this one is
available.
If that one is not available, then what
action do you take?
What you do is you don't continue fighting
with them if they have run out of
the area.
It's for you now to come and mobilise
this person.
If he can still be rescued, yes, you
rescue.
If he's not, then you do the procedures
that you do.
(40:48):
But now what happens is that how do
you convince your rangers now that it's still
safe for them to work as rangers?
What benefit will this be to you and
your family?
And that is why we are really emphasising
on insurance, better training, better salaries because of
(41:09):
that.
In these other setups is that it's only
you who is known that you're a ranger
but nobody knows about your family.
What is going to happen to your family?
Exactly.
And that's why in the IRF, we had
what we call the Chitwan Declaration.
This was in Nepal 2019 that we are
(41:29):
trying to address all those problems.
And with the IRF have been sort of
fundraising to support the families of the people
who died on line of duty, be it
through bandits or accident or animal has killed
you or something like that.
So sometimes they have other families that have
benefited.
(41:50):
They come and put up a roof for
you, a house for you or even educate
your children.
Okay.
I want to switch gears now and look
at the aspect of mentality, cultures and things
like that but more so to the aspect
of myths, I'd say myths, markets and beliefs
because they all are very much intertwined.
(42:11):
Pagolins, is it?
Scales.
Yeah, but they're armed.
It's not the spiny armed anteater.
It's like, it looks like a spiny armed.
Yeah, it's a pagolin.
Yeah.
And then there's an anteater.
It's a different animal.
No, but I'm saying they have the same
kind of posture.
Okay.
But okay.
But anyway, so pagolins is one thing, right?
(42:33):
They probably remain the most trafficked mammals on
earth.
Again, this is a report from UNODC.
Demand is driven by beliefs, which we talked
about with no, absolutely no scientific basis but
with a lot of market influence, right?
So why does the virility myth around rhino
(42:54):
horns or the catering that is found in
rhino horns and found in pagolin scales, why
does that persist?
Why does that myth persist?
And who benefits most from it?
Well, for the rhino horn myth is that
(43:16):
we came when poaching was going on.
We learned about poaching.
We learned about why this poaching is happening.
As we also read from the Chinese reports
is that rhino horn is used as an
(43:37):
aphrodisiac or for some ailments or something like
that.
The same with the pagolins.
Pagolins is why the demand is there because
the Chinese will use it to make the
medicine for maybe some ailments like gout, like
arthritis, like that.
(43:59):
But at the moment, we do not have
any scientific proof that this one is working.
But before that, we'll still lose pagolins.
We'll still lose rhinos for that purpose.
So let me ask the question then.
(44:19):
Because for a rhino horn, you know, it
just hangs here.
It's not really deep rooted into the bone.
It's something that you can cut, you know,
just like when you can be able to
cut your fingers, I mean, your nails.
But there's no traffickers for human toenails and
fingernails.
(44:39):
No.
Sorry, I mean, that aspect of myth and
beliefs.
So do traffickers actually then deliberately exploit these
myths to say, you've said there's absolutely no
scientific proof at all, yet there is still
trafficking.
So the aspect of, do they actually exploit
these myths?
(45:01):
I don't know whether it's a point of
ignorance or anything like that.
And what message would you yourself send directly
to the buyers who keep the markets alive?
Is that those myths are not true.
One, traditionally, we use herbs for ailments.
You know, we've got for stomach problems, for
(45:23):
high blood pressure, gout and arthritis.
We use herbs at home and even for
malaria and even for any type of ailment.
And in this world, how many people have
arthritis or these ailments?
It's a very big number of people.
(45:44):
But we do not have rhinos that will
be able to support that.
No.
We do not even have pangolins that will
be able to support that if we are
to use them for medical purposes.
So the message is, let the world explore
(46:05):
ways of getting the medicinal products for the
ailments that exist.
You know, the world is not, the art
is not growing, but the population is growing.
(46:25):
And the wildlife is decreasing because of these
external pressures, be it poaching, be it, you
know, land fragmentation, infrastructure and all that.
So competition for resources, basically.
Okay.
So now I've asked to look at, in
every conversation, and conservation and wildlife is not
(46:47):
any different, there's always going to be an
aspect of politics, especially politics.
And I'm looking at politics in the corridors,
basically.
Now, according to the AWF, more than 70
% of East Africa's historic wildlife corridors have
been narrowed or blocked.
These pressures shape both Kenya, Kenya's community, obviously,
(47:11):
the community's conservancy, well, the models for conservancy
here in Kenya, and also in Tanzania, right?
And how they drive this kind of approach.
So what stands out most to you as
the most important similarities and differences between the
Kenya-Tanzania conservation models?
(47:34):
One is that, you know, political and legal
challenges are one of the main challenges for
conservation in Kenya and Tanzania.
Because land, you know, things related to land
ownership.
(47:54):
Who does this area belong to?
Does it belong to the government?
Does it belong to the community?
Does it belong to an investor or something
like that?
So also the jurisdiction, where this activity happens.
And maybe the law enforcement.
(48:18):
So some of the solutions that we can
be able to to do is, we, one
is that, you know, like Masai Mara and
Serengeti.
It's a Masai here and a Masai there.
So the wildlife have no boundaries, but people
have.
So the thing is that we should be
(48:38):
able to engage both communities, engage the government,
so that we are able to do maybe
something like joint anti-poaching patrols between the
rangers there and the rangers here.
That is one way.
The other way is engaging the communities in
(49:00):
two places.
For example, in a place called Magadi, Shomboli
and all that.
Normally during the dry season, the Masais will
drive their livestock to Tanzania.
And when we do not also have rain
on the other side and we have rains
on this, they can access the grazing fields.
So we should all work in collaboration with
that.
(49:21):
So that we can be able, so the
government side and the government side of Kenya,
they should be able to support the community
so that those wildlife corridors are not blocked.
So that they can be able, there is
free movement of wildlife in those places.
(49:41):
Also in the joint anti-poaching measures is
that at the moment there is a lot
of technology that is being used, like the
use of drones, the use of maybe they
call it smart systems and all that.
Try to track us on colours and things
like that.
Colouring of the animals.
(50:02):
So if that information could also be shared,
because the challenge now we have around Amboseli
area, the big matriarch elephants will go into
Tanzania and Tanzania they do spot hunting.
And if there is an investor or a
rich man who would want to shoot this
matriarch, so that matriarch will not come back
(50:24):
to Kenya.
And maybe it is the one that was
the big of that family or the one
that has brought up the whole of that
elephant family.
So there should be collaboration.
For example, now when the livestock, I think
that when the livestock will go into Tanzania,
normally there has been through movement that is
(50:48):
allowed.
But I don't know change of the administration
may not work as the same as the
other one has been working.
The other thing is there has to be
a lot of environmental education.
Because like now you go to Samburu and
like Ibia, people have benefited from conservation.
(51:09):
So that's why I said they take it
as a second cow.
So the public should be educated on wildlife,
their movement, their migration patterns.
And also, you know, the wildlife have also
to buy their way.
They have to benefit from that in order
for them to be able to appreciate.
(51:30):
Also, wildlife corridors, you know, people should be
taught that this is a wildlife corridor.
So you should not go and do your
farming there.
You should not go and put up your
settlement there because you're going to be in
conflict with this animal.
Okay, as we bring this home, there's a
few things I want to pick up a
(51:50):
bit later.
But for now, let's just look at the
future of East African conservation.
Africa, as everybody talks about, is the youngest
continent.
Yet less than 5% of conservation jobs
go to youth.
This is according to the African Union.
At the same time, climate volatility is reshaping
ecosystems and the demands placed on rangers, right?
(52:13):
So my question is, if you had to
identify three urgent policy priorities for East African
conservation, what would they be?
One is collaboration.
Okay, one is cross-border wildlife migration corridors.
Is that all these countries, Kenya, Tanzania, Ethiopia,
(52:38):
Uganda, must legally secure the migration, migratory corridors.
For example, it's working in Kenya, in Amboseli,
and on the other side of Tanzania.
Okay.
They work in collaboration and they share information.
So this should be clear that these are
(52:59):
migration routes.
The other thing is unified anti-poaching and
intelligent cooperation.
We share information on poaching, on environmental destruction.
Okay.
On anything like that.
That one should be the regional livestock grazing
(53:24):
grounds.
For example, during the drought seasons.
So there should be that agreement that now,
yeah, for example, people in Samburu have been
going almost up to Somalia or Ethiopia borders
looking for grass.
So they have an express way of doing
that.
In Tanzania and Kenya, it should not be
(53:47):
a very big problem because the Maasai's here
are the same Maasai's there.
On the other side, their culture is the
same.
Language is the same.
I mean, way of life is the same.
So those systems must work.
Okay.
So as you look ahead, what gives you
hope and what keeps you a bit concerned
(54:09):
about conservation as a profession and a livelihood
for the next generation?
I know there's not many people who teach.
Most people want to become doctors, lawyers, and
what have you.
I don't know anybody who said, oh, we're
teaching a course on being a ranger in
school.
So what does the future hold?
Well, I think one, I'll give an example
(54:34):
of Samburu.
Most of the conservancies now are the biggest
employers of the youth because they are employed
as rangers.
They're employed as, so this tourism, this conservation
has brought tourism.
So this tourism is employing a lot of
(54:54):
youth.
It's even employing kinamama because they have good
projects that they undertake in a conservancy.
So for us, it is the biggest employer
now than the people who are employed by
the government.
Okay.
That is one.
Two, we should embrace conservation because we come
from a pastoral area, a very dry land,
(55:17):
semi-arid area.
So we do not look at doing farming
because it's not going to favour the situation
there.
So this keeping of livestock, we can combine
it with the conservation of wildlife and environment.
That is the thing that is going to
give us a likelihood.
(55:38):
Okay.
Any personal note that you'd want to now
say, okay, fine, with regards to invite people
to the best places that they should be
able to see particular animals.
Lykipia has black panthers, don't they?
Yeah.
How many?
Just the one black panther?
Because that's one I would want to go
and see.
And the thing is, the animal orphanage here
(55:59):
is obviously looking after animals that have been
injured.
But we're also looking at commercial.
I mean, if people were to say we
want to go and see, it would be
natural to see the black panther in the
wild.
But what happens when you then start saying,
oh, because it's bringing tourism and it's bringing
money, we're going to then captively breed black
panthers.
In the wild, it's not possible.
But if you do a captive breeding, that's
(56:20):
where I'm looking at because I would love
to see a black panther.
If I'm going to have to spend four
hours out driving and I'm not advocating for
it, but there's a likelihood people say, okay,
captive breeding, you want to come and see
a black panther, come to Lykipia and you
can see it in the cage there.
Let me tell you is that Kenya is
(56:42):
a very blessed country.
One, each area is unique on its own.
For example, Masai Mara and Serengeti is unique
because of the migration.
You come to Northern Kenya, above the equator
is where we live.
And this place has special animals that are
not found in other places.
(57:04):
For example, you'll see the gravy zebra.
We are having the biggest number of the
gravy zebra in the whole world.
You will see the Somali ostrich.
You will see the reticulated giraffe.
We've got three types of giraffes in Kenya.
Masai giraffe, reticulated giraffe, and Rothschild giraffe.
We've got the Bissa oryx.
(57:28):
It's only existing on that part of the
world.
And then now we've got the black panther
in Lykipia.
That is also unique in that area.
You go to Mount Kenya, they have the
bongo.
So each area is special on its own.
So what would have been able, what would
have been good for us to do is
(57:50):
to diversify activities in tourism.
For example, Masai Mara has been all the
time, servos and all that.
So now opening up the Northern Corridor, I
mean the Northern part of Kenya for tourism
will really work.
Because in tourism, we've got different tourists that
(58:10):
will come to there.
There are those who will come and see
the scenery.
There are those who will come and see
birding.
There are those who will come and see
wildlife.
Others will just want to change their way,
come to see a different part of the
world.
So we've got the opportunity.
(58:31):
What are we doing in terms of getting
Tanzanians, Kenyans, Ugandans, whatever the case may be,
to say, listen, I don't want to sit
on my TV and watch it.
I want to actually go out to Lykipia.
Like I'm saying, I want to go to
Lykipia and see a black leopard.
Now, one is that we have to improve
in our infrastructure.
We have to make those destinations reachable.
(58:53):
That is one.
Two, we have to do a lot of
marketing.
Kenya is getting a lot of money from,
generating a lot of money from tourism.
So we should also use that to market
the country.
We also have to develop what we call
domestic tourism.
We do not only want to rely on
those places.
(59:14):
Remember the challenge we had when we had
COVID.
Yeah.
So, and a place like Egypt, a place
like France, a place like even places in
the US, some parks are even getting more
than 2 million visitors in a year.
Maybe the whole country here, maybe we are
getting about maybe 1 million or even less.
(59:35):
So we should be able to develop infrastructure,
do a lot of aggressive marketing and do
not underestimate local tourism.
For example, we have a place now, it's
called Ololoki Mountain or Sapashi.
On the way to Marsabit, it's a very
big flat top hill.
(59:56):
It's becoming very famous.
You know, we've seen people even Nairobi, the
youth, you know, hiring vehicles to come and
take a picture of there.
They go and spend, see the Samburus there,
just do their tourism there.
So we should also be encouraging.
Let's not reserve all these things for other
people, but also for us.
Okay.
Michael, thank you so much.
It's been an absolute pleasure having you here.
(01:00:18):
Hope to see you soon.
I think there's a lot of more of
this conversation we need to unpack, but for
now, that's all the time we have.
But again, thank you so much for the
enlightening aspect and for taking the time to
join us.
Thank you.
And you're very welcome.
So this conversation reminds us that conservation in
East Africa is not a distant wilderness story.
It is a daily negotiation between people, land
(01:00:39):
and wildlife.
We have heard how rangers stand in that
gap, how communities carry the cost of conflict,
and how poaching networks and land pressures are
testing the limits of the systems meant to
protect these landscapes.
The choice is not between people and animals.
It's between short-term gains and long-term
survival between unmanaged exploitation and shared stewardship.
Michael's work shows that when communities are respected,
(01:01:02):
rangers are supported, and policies match reality on
the ground, conservation can still be a story
of possibility, not just loss.
The question is whether East Africa will act
in time to secure the future.
You've been listening to Panel 54, where we
rethink the world, one African perspective at a
time.
If this episode made you pause, reflect, or
reframe, share it, start a conversation, and tag
(01:01:23):
us in.
Find us on our social media handle at
panel54pod.
And don't forget to subscribe so you never
miss an episode.
Until next time, stay curious, stay grounded, and
remember, keep the lens clear.
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