Guest: Paige Picher Giddings – Former high school basketball player and advocate for social and emotional safety for girls in sports.
Overview: In this episode, Paige Picher Giddings shares her personal journey of navigating the pressures of elite sports from a young age, starting in USA Swim with intense two-a-day practices by the age of seven. Her transition to high school basketball at a prestigious private school further solidified her identity as a high performer, which brought both emotional praise and verbal abuse from coaches. Paige reflects on how her self-worth became tied to her athletic achievements, leaving little room for life outside of sports.
Through her story, Paige advocates for a shift in coaching approaches, emphasizing the importance of coaches "pouring into" their athletes rather than imposing their will. She calls for a focus on teaching life skills, particularly the ability to reset and calm the central nervous system after intense competition.
Key Discussion Points:
Early Pressure in Youth Sports:
Paige’s experience of high-stakes sports from a very young age.
The anxiety and lack of balance caused by constant performance demands.
The Emotional Impact of Performance-Based Praise:
How receiving praise only for athletic performance led to emotional abuse.
The negative effects of tying self-worth to success in sports.
Rethinking Coaching:
Paige’s belief that coaches should empower athletes rather than control them.
The importance of teaching girls life skills that extend beyond sports.
Resetting the Nervous System:
Techniques Paige recommends, such as belly breathing, box breathing, and simple meditation practices.
The significance of helping athletes shift from the sympathetic to the parasympathetic nervous system for recovery and well-being.
The Importance of Connection with Our Bodies:
How sports can sometimes lead to disassociation from the body.
Encouraging girls to reconnect with their bodies, recognizing they are more than their physical abilities or appearance.
Takeaway Message: Girls need more than just physical training to thrive in sports—they need emotional resilience, tools for mental recovery, and the ability to separate their self-worth from athletic performance. Paige’s story highlights the importance of fostering a supportive, holistic environment for young athletes, where mental and emotional health is prioritized.
Practical Tips for Athletes:
Belly breathing for stress relief.
Box breathing for focus and calm.
Legs up the wall for relaxation and recovery.
Meditation, even for just 5 minutes a day, to reset the nervous system.
Tune in to learn how we can reshape the culture of sports for girls to promote not just athletic success, but overall well-being and emotional safety.
Available On:
https://sampsonannemarie.podbean.com/
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https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1323-peac-train-like-a-girl-en-182787629/
Follow Paige Picher Giddings:
https://www.instagram.com/healwith_paige/
https://www.instagram.com/peac_train_like_a_girl/
https://www.instagram.com/sustainablelife.live/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:10):
Welcome to PEAK, Train Like a Girl, a podcast by girls in sport,
for girls and coaches in sport.
We're here to amplify your voice. It deserves to be heard.
At PEAK, we are a safe place for girls to hang out, learn, grow, and build community.
We empower girls in sport and their coaches with knowledge, resources,
(00:32):
and support we think is necessary in today's athletic environments to thrive.
Join us for bold conversations about experiences of girls in sport.
Our discussions will make you laugh, cry, cheer, for sure get frustrated.
And hopefully rethink the future of girls in sport for generations to come.
(00:53):
So whether you're walking, commuting, cleaning your dorm room, take us with you.
Follow us. It helps more than you can imagine. Check out our website and make
sure you share with a female athlete or coach you love.
I can't wait to introduce you to our next guest, Paige.
Paige is a former high school, excuse me, basketball player.
(01:17):
She is an advocate for social and emotional safety for girls in sport.
And she's currently working on some really cool resources to help high school
and college athletes understand healing and understanding their central nervous system.
I don't want to waste any more time. So I'm ready to get warmed up if you are, Paige.
Oh i'm always warmed up awesome well
(01:40):
let's get a little more into it dog because i have a dog vanilla or chocolate
chocolate always i'm eating chocolate as well love it beach or mountain oh probably
water all right so we're going beach.
Movie or netflix series
(02:03):
can i say book sure i love that you should totally add that to the mix i love
that was like a question that my that was a question of my what was that my
baby or my bridal shower one of my showers and i was like how well do you know
the bride and it was like movie or book and i was like if anybody gets this
wrong they like shouldn't be here,
(02:24):
that's hilarious i love that you and our oldest son he would say that too i
don't think he's watched a show on television for years so you you and him would get along famously,
last question road trip or plane oh i hate flying road trip i i oh i hate it
i do it if i have to but i hate it i yeah i will i will gladly stay on the ground
(02:47):
you and me both we're similar there It feels like we have more control, right?
Oh, bingo. It's definitely a psychological problem.
That's hilarious. And I'm sure we're going to get into that. Oh, yeah.
So why don't we start just getting to know you a little bit.
Tell us a little bit about your story surrounding sport.
(03:13):
Oh, yeah. It starts really early in my life, probably earlier than most,
I'd say. that didn't play like or go to the Olympics.
I started USA Swimming when I was six.
I had two days at seven.
And I hated swimming.
I never asked to swim. I asked not to swim, actually.
(03:37):
It was never up to me what I got to do, which affected me in many ways as I
got older. But swimming was really a tough sport.
And it's impacted the way that I live my life still today.
And I've had to walk back a lot of it. But I swam club swimming.
So six until I was like 12 or 13.
(03:58):
And then I started playing basketball like full time, we'll say.
But swimming really was tough because I never got to like just go home after school.
I always had practice. There was never a point in my life where I didn't know
what it was like to go home and not have practice even that early in life.
(04:19):
So that wasn't ideal for me.
I'm someone who really likes to have space to create, to relax and really did
a number on my nervous system.
So, I mean, I used to draw bruises on myself trying to get out of practice.
Like I one time I made my sister stay out in the cold, in the snow for like
(04:41):
two hours to see if my parents forgot about practice.
I kept sending her in to look at the time.
Oh, my God, I was insane. My mom eventually just yelled at me like,
Paige, you don't have to go to swimming.
So it just was an interesting, interesting dynamic, especially because I actually
was really good at swimming.
So I ended up being, I had a record in the 25 free when I was eight years old in Wisconsin State.
(05:05):
I just, it was really tough because
I was really good at it and I just loathed it. Oh, it was terrible.
And so eventually, you know, I played other sports. I played volleyball.
I did track and obviously basketball and softball.
But I always had swimming because USA Swimming is year round.
And a lot of the kids that do it do not have other sports.
(05:27):
So I got like bullied for missing two-a-days and
things like that that was fun so just
was a tough a tough environment to grow up in especially as a
really really really sensitive kid like I
was you know I really wanted voice lessons and things
like that but I couldn't because I had to swim so eventually I think I literally
wrote a letter to my parents because I I asked to quit probably every day for
(05:52):
eight years I don't know how they dealt with it but one day I literally wrote
a letter and I just begged. I said, please let me quit swimming this year.
I will focus on basketball and the rest is rock and roll history.
And so basketball became my main thing, actually became my life,
my identity, everything.
I did AAU forever, tons of AAU, tons of teams.
(06:16):
And then I actually ended up getting recruited by a private high school coach
to play at a nearby by high schools. I was going to go to the public school in my town.
And that actually ended up being a really good thing for me.
The school was the spot for me.
I don't think I would have done well in other schools, at a bigger school, but it was tough.
I had a lot of pressure on my shoulders. People knew who I was because I was
(06:38):
the kid they brought in to play basketball, really.
And at 14, that's a lot of pressure. I had a scholarship and.
It was tough. And at the time, they had poured a lot of money into the boys athletic program.
And so I was one of the first athletes on the girls side to be getting money to play there.
(07:01):
So a big honor. Yes. A lot of pressure for a girl with problems at home who
had been under pressure since birth, basically.
So it was a tough go of it. And I didn't super love basketball either.
I just didn't know if I had anything else I could do with my life. But it was my identity.
(07:21):
It's what got me love. It's what got me affection. It's what got me attention was being the best.
And so that's what I did. So I have a very tough kind of story around it.
I'm really grateful for the friends that I made. I'm really grateful for the things that I learned.
And I'm honestly grateful that I am hopefully able to help other people get
something out of sports, get something out of that, that isn't just mental health issues.
(07:45):
She was like, like I had a really bad anxiety and really bad is putting it mildly.
But back then in 2012 or whatever, people didn't know what that was.
So and, you know, when I graduated from high school, I didn't touch a basketball
till I was, I don't even know, like seven years, maybe six more years.
And it was really sad because, you know, my husband and I, sometimes when we play, I'm like my shot.
(08:10):
I'm not I'm graduated now like I
can say this about myself but like my shot is perfect because I
spent hours and hours and hours and hours these are real
skills that I developed you know and it's really sad that I wanted to divorce
myself from it so much so that's the whole kind of not very abridged version
but that's yeah I mean it's interesting so first of all I don't know if
(08:36):
you know this, but Megan swims. She swims at the University of Iowa.
So, yeah, I don't know, Megan, did you have any, I know you didn't have similar experiences,
but did you know other kids that just kind of dreaded, you know,
getting up at, you know, six o'clock in the morning and being in the pool and late at night?
(08:57):
Did you, could you sense that from other kids you swam with?
Definitely, yes. I would say that was, it was either I feel like you loved it
or, you know, no, this wasn't really your thing, the cold, the early mornings.
So that's completely understandable.
Yeah, I think that's true. I think because I swam also in a similar situation
at a young age and the same thing.
(09:19):
It was two days before school. I don't think I was very good,
by the way. It was, I think, anyways, that's a whole nother story.
But the point is, I didn't want to be there.
But you could really sense that. You could sense there were kids that really
kind of took to the water.
And then there were people like me that were like freezing before they ever stepped in.
So which is yeah just completely interesting i
(09:42):
do want to talk a little bit because i want to
make sure that we're clear with people when you're talking about getting scholarship
to play our money to play high school basketball someone was paying your tuition
to go to private school so i just want to make sure is that is that correct
we're being yeah there was it was a grant. It was a grant. It was like part of tuition.
(10:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and I'm not sure people realize and if,
you know, public school is out there, but private schools do cost money and
sometimes they can quote unquote recruit and they're,
you know, part of the incentive is let's say it's, you know,
$20,000 to go to school there.
They're going to pay half your tuition. You're going to come and you're
(10:26):
going to get to focus on this thing called back basketball I
mean it'll present you with more opportunities down the
line correct and I think on the on
its face they couldn't say it was an athletic scholarship and
it also was technically academic I did do very well on the test so yeah I don't
know if that's a PR nightmare that I just spilled the beans on that but people
(10:47):
knew that I was there to play basketball that's for sure of course I don't think
that's a secret I just think people to be clear that yeah no I don't think that's a secret.
There's, you know, all these conferences around here, you can tell that private
schools, they're recruiting kids to come and obviously get an education,
but also they're there to perform on these athletic teams.
(11:09):
I think the other thing that's interesting that you talk about is the pressure
of a high school athlete is significant.
I don't, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to downplay that.
I think that there is this significant, not only just to win,
but then also all this energy is being pumped into you so you can go on to do
(11:31):
something else, whether that's to perform at the college level or perform at
the professional level.
And you do see, you know, one of two things happen.
You see kids that, you know, for lack of a better word, suck it up buttercup.
And then they go on to college or professional sports and that is their life
and they live that lifestyle.
(11:53):
Or they completely burn out by high school.
And I think one of the things we talk a lot about with girls in sport in particular
is that the attrition rate, the dropout rate is so high for girls in sport.
And we do know that while you're talking about a lot of the negative impact
of girls in sport, we also know the positive impact is if we can keep girls in sport longer,
(12:19):
they go on to perform much better at other things.
Like in particular in the work world.
So what do you think some of the things that we could be doing as coaches to
help recognize athletes are suffering from anxiety?
They're also suffering from lack of balance for lack of a better word with sports and social life.
(12:46):
It sounds like a lot of your pressure didn't just come from coaching staff.
Steph, it sounds like a lot of your pressure also came from home.
Oh, yes. Pressure came from the coaches. Pressure came from my parents, my lifestyle.
It was a lot. Looking back, it's honestly hard to talk about sometimes.
(13:07):
I can't even imagine. I have a daughter now. If people ever treated her like
that, it would be so tough. I would never let it happen. Let me be clear.
I think the biggest thing that I had to say about coaching.
And this people don't like when I talk about this, but it's the truth.
You know, anything that you're preaching, or anytime that you're interacting
(13:30):
with people, you're projecting what's happening inside of you onto them.
So if you're coming down on a kid really hard on something, if you're talking about their character,
you're making big grandiose statements about them as a person to maybe an assistant
coach, or maybe the whole team, which used to happen on my team,
that's something going on within you.
(13:50):
And maybe you're a really good coach. Maybe, you know what I mean?
Maybe you're really kind to your athletes.
But if you're noticing what you're saying, you have to really look inside because
whatever is in your heart, whatever is in your life, whatever is in your mind
is going to be what you're saying to them and what you're projecting onto them.
And these kids, high school, college, are so impressionable.
(14:13):
And whatever you're downloading into them, that will likely become part of their
internal voice, whether that's positive, negative, what have you.
So if some kid on your team is struggling with something, step one is to look
within you. What have you been saying? How have you been acting?
What have you, what behaviors, what mental talk have you been modeling?
(14:34):
Have you been playing favorites? Have you been openly yelling at one kid more than the rest?
You know, have you been talking about things that are beyond sport?
Like I said, their character, their worth as a human, I mean, their weight.
Hopefully, you know, people get this by now, but that wasn't something that
was off limits when I played.
And it was such an unhealthy, toxic environment.
(14:57):
And I hope that things have gotten better. But people who will be listening
to this podcast are people that care about this stuff.
And so I think the biggest thing is when you're seeing someone struggle.
Again, look within you. Okay, what's been going on internally for you?
What's been going on in the ether around your team? You know what I mean?
Maybe something's happening.
And I always suggest that.
(15:20):
That you see them as human, they're kids. I think that there's a weird thing
that happens when people get in positions of authority.
They think that A, they're going to impose their will, their life beliefs onto
these kids because they think it's the right way.
Coaching is an ego trip. It just is. Even for the most un-egotistical among us,
(15:42):
you are being exalted to a position of influence and so it's important to understand
that we all like to hear our own voice right but sometimes you need to listen
and to remember that these kids have so much going on you know.
Adults have so much in their daily lives kids have a ton too and don't just
(16:05):
pay it lip service i remember my coach saying like oh kids have so much on these
on their plate these days i was then why are you so terrible?
I was like, then why are you such a psychopath?
If you know that, you should do something about it.
And so again, it's an inside job. Coaching, everything in life is an inside job.
So always seeing how you're reacting to them and just listening to them and
(16:27):
listening to them without an agenda.
You're not going to be like, oh, well, it's going to make you tougher. Stop with that stuff.
We don't need that anymore in the world. And in all honesty,
to see the world is changing so much the workforce is changing
i remember i don't know if people remember this this
stupid quote was a big thing when i was playing i was
like i can't even say without laughing unreachable kids become unemployable
(16:52):
until i've never heard that oh my god i was like like literally the whole grandiose
big declarations about what kids were going to do with their lives based on that practice that day.
Like we had that all the time. And they used to get like.
How someone acts on a court says a lot about them as a person.
(17:14):
I'm like, sometimes I don't write very well during the day because I'm tired
and I have a life. That doesn't mean anything about my value as a human.
But at the time, that's what was beat over our heads.
And so I think a lot of that stuff is just so damaging when you're starting
to make any type of insinuation about their worth, their work ethic.
(17:37):
You know you have to be really careful there because
these are the voices that particularly girls will
take with them into their lives and then
they have daughters and sons and they're usually not
very kind to them because the world wasn't kind to them either so this
is a really vicious cycle because it all involves the
nervous system what type of programming what type of messaging we put into it
(17:58):
so that's what i always really impressed upon coaches it's like you know You've
got to check your own voice because you really need to come from a good place
and from a place that isn't all about you.
Yeah, I would agree with that. And I want to come back to the nervous system
piece because I know that's something you're really working hard on and I want
(18:21):
to make sure we give some light to that.
But I do want to circle back and talk about, I hear what you're saying about,
the coaching, the coaching, and listen, we're here to educate coaches.
And one of the things I believe is that you can't be a good coach unless you
(18:42):
have the information, education, and resources to be able to do that.
And some of my big things, and the reason we're showing up here is that particularly
for girls in sport, it has been one model, and that is boys basketball football,
you know, and everything else kind of fit into that agenda.
And that's not the way it works. You can't coach a girl the way you coach a
(19:05):
boy for many, many different reasons. Boys don't menstruate, girls do.
Boys don't have breasts, girls do. I mean, there's a million reasons, right?
And the other thing is, is that even as you're saying some of this stuff,
you know, some of it is different.
Like I wouldn't, I don't even know what I would yell at an amp.
I coach a coach cross country, a coach running, what would I possibly yell?
(19:27):
Right, like, right, different than basketball, right? So some of it is,
you know, when you're trying to apply all of these, you know,
these quotes, you know, and trust me, I've got, I've been around enough,
you know, ADs where they're regurgitating, you know, men's basketball,
you know, quotes and men's football quotes, and they're not applicable to my
(19:48):
to me or my sport at all, by the way, I don't think we're one foot away from being exceptional.
Like that's just not the way I don't, I don't think the world works that way.
And I hear what you're saying there.
And I think you and I are on the same page there, but I want to,
I want to pause for a minute and I want to keep going back because I'm having this situation.
(20:08):
And inevitably we have a situation every year where you can tell that some of
the issues that are happening with an athlete are stemming from, um,
issues that are happening in the home. And there are boundaries,
there is only so much we can be doing as a coach.
You know, but when parents are interjecting, and they are the toxic piece of the equation.
(20:34):
And, you know, when you're coaching a team, whether it's 60 kids on a swim team,
or, you know, 15 kids on a basketball court,
you are responsible for making everybody's experience And when 90% of your effort
is going towards one athlete because of their caretaker or parents.
You know, that's a really tough way also to try to navigate a situation.
(20:57):
So what is a parent's responsibility in all of this, I guess,
is what I'm trying to ask you.
You oh that's a very good
loaded challenging multi-dimensional question
because I think well first
of all I'm glad you're talking about it because there was no resources for me
at the time I mean my I don't want to I try not
(21:18):
to I try to keep my my family stuff
as private as possible but at the end of the day it's the
truth so I mean I had my dad coming
to practice to my high school practices yep and
I can picture it I've seen it yeah I was gonna say
I mean that's generally people when they
(21:38):
hear my story they're like oh boy and people like
my sister had a really rough time with this like people
would see my dad coming like it was it's tough and so
one I have a ton of empathy for the kids in
those situations and kids react to
it differently but I think you know even just talking about it
now I'm like maybe that's one of the reasons why I had a target on
(22:00):
my back from that coach is because there is an ego battle between going on between
him and my dad and it was really tough I just wanted to like go to school and
have friends like you know I mean I just was like I don't need this but as far
as managing that if you are a conscious person I think.
Even thinking about it in a way that is constructive to their mental health
(22:23):
is so much more than so many athletes get.
I mean, nobody gave like any, didn't care at all about my mental health at the
time, didn't see me as a human.
And I, in my time coaching too, I didn't have any parents that were too tough,
but I could tell them when there were things at home and coming from a background
like that, I kind of knew how to address it, I'd say. and in my studies with
(22:46):
the nervous system, I understand that.
So first of all, the nervous system is formed between mainly,
it's mainly downloaded between birth and age seven.
So whatever is going on at the home at that time is really going to wire the
person for the rest of their lives.
And that doesn't mean it's not changeable. It absolutely is.
But that's kind of what you're given to work with.
(23:06):
And so a lot of times when I see girls, like
when I was coaching coaching sixth grade basketball and one of
the girls who I just adored they were all so sweet I I
loved them to death I loved working with them and she was always talking about
food always always talking about dieting always talking about gluten-free this
gluten-free that and I had a pretty
(23:28):
bad eating disorder so I I knew I knew what was going on sure and so I.
I honestly, I gave her like more love. I gave all the kids a lot of love. I'm not going to lie.
But I, I like talked to her a good amount.
And eventually I didn't pull her aside. I feel like that sounds a little much,
but I was just like, Hey, like, what's going on? Tell me about your life.
(23:52):
You know, I wanted her to know that she had a friend, because I look back at
my time and I had no allies. I mean, being a 14 year old in the world that I
was in, I was so sweet and so kind and really wanted to do the right thing.
I wanted everybody around me to feel good. I want everybody to like me.
I wanted to feel safe. And that just wasn't an option.
(24:13):
And if I you know there are some people looking back now who
really who really didn't like care about me and and
I I can't tell you the debt of gratitude I feel in my body to this day to them
and this is the good thing of sports it's like they're really you really can
have a positive impact if you're intentional if you slow down if you again I
(24:36):
hate I hate the term pulling aside side,
but you just talk to that person. I'm like, how are you doing?
You've been feeling a little tense lately and it's okay. You know what I mean?
Always saying it's okay to feel what you're feeling.
Whatever it is, you're angry, you're mad, you're upset, you're sad, you're annoyed.
All of that is okay. And I think that that's the first thing if you were to talk to a kid would say.
(24:59):
And I said that to her, this sweet little girl.
I was like, you know, I know that the world it's really confusing sometimes
about the messages that we get but you know
I understand and whatever you're feeling
about it is okay and I'm here to help you
know and I said if you ever need to talk I'm always around at this point this
is back in the day they were always trying to get my snapchat because they're
(25:21):
in sixth grade and no have no chill and they just wouldn't they would find me
and I kept having to block them and they'd be like did you block me and I was
like yeah because you can't snapchat me.
But they're a lot older now. And sometimes I still talk to them.
And so awesome. You know, I because I cared about them as individuals.
(25:42):
It wasn't being like, this is my philosophy on life, kid. Like,
I think that you should only eat gluten on Fridays or whatever.
Like, I just wanted to listen to them. It wasn't about me imposing my will on them.
It just was about me being a friend and being someone who actively cared about them.
Them and in all honesty if you have one of those situations
(26:03):
where a whole team is skewed because one kid's family is
so messed up the only thing that i
think would even remotely make a dent is if you
pour into them and you should be pouring your whole
team of course i know it's hard when you have like a massive team
of like 60 kids or something but i think as well we had 12 kids
and i was a big part of that roster you
(26:23):
know and in all honesty kind of where i went the team
went so yeah and so and
I was acutely aware of that but you know even I'm talking
about it now I'm like yeah all those other creepy dynamics that play
between the men in my life I was not aware of at the time but right I think
the big thing always is making sure people know that you care about them and
that you're not act and not in like the old school boomer way where you're like
(26:47):
I care about you so I'm gonna hurt you like you know like I got a lot I mean
genuinely caring about them as humans,
and not, again, not coming with your agenda, but just listening to what's going on in their lives.
Because you'll find, you'll see what's going on.
And you also will likely soften them.
Like, I had hardened my heart against the world, and especially against basketball.
(27:09):
But if I had felt that there was somebody who had my best interest at heart.
You know, things could have softened and gotten a lot better.
So I think when kids have one ally in the world, things can really change for them.
And it can also really change for your team, you know, because that person feels safe.
And when one person feels safe,
I really think that that has a cumulative effect on the rest of the team.
(27:32):
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that was really...
Really profound, really well said. One of the things that we talk a lot about
with our athletes is, you know, every motion is a valid emotion and you should
feel all of your emotions.
And I ask now if, if an athlete wants to, or can compartmentalize,
(27:56):
you know, can you compartmentalize and be able to run this race?
So basically I'm asking them, do you want to run the race?
Which Because I don't want to give kids the option to opt out so easily.
I want them to really be thoughtful.
Because I think a lot of times when something happens that they can't control
(28:17):
and the option is to not do something, they actually feel less and less in control.
But when I found that if I asked them, can you compartmentalize this or do you
want to compartmentalize this? And we explain what compartmentalizing is.
It gives them power again. And that's what it comes down to.
Right. I guess we talked about that in the beginning. Would you rather get on a plane or drive?
(28:37):
And you and I are both like, no, I want to be in a drill. I want to drive.
So basically you're giving them the power to control the situation.
And it doesn't mean that they are going to perform well that day,
by the way, but it means that they own the process.
And I think that that is super important.
So I think that what that summary of all of that was really good and,
(29:00):
you know, pouring into people. And I pull and again, maybe not the right words,
but, you know, taking people aside all the time.
And that's one of the beauties of coaching cross country, you know,
not so easy when you coach swimming when they're underwater the whole time.
Basketball but yeah you know there's a lot of opportunity to
talk when you're running so that's one
(29:23):
of the nice things so you let's go back and finish talking about some of the
work you are doing specifically with the central nervous system for girls in
sport at the high school and collegiate level yeah absolutely and like you just
said like when you were talking
about that, you know, saying, can you compartmentalize?
(29:45):
You need that life skill. You know what I mean? Like, me sitting and hating
my life for four years for six months out of the year, that's not a life skill.
All I learned was how to.
Ride my central nervous system you know that's
not a life skill if anything that's a very detrimental skill that actually
took like the whole thing but you know
(30:05):
it was a really really tough tough road to
walk and so learning these skills like that's
why I love sports like there are so many life skills that can be
taught and shared and that's why I'm so passionate about
the nervous system in general but particularly for athletes
because the nervous system is so sensitive for so
many people and it's supposed to
(30:26):
be sensitive you know it's designed to keep us alive and in
sports you're almost put into situations that
feel life or death you know like when i used to listen to the anthem
before my basketball games pretty sure
that's what gladiators felt like walking into the coliseum like i
literally felt like i was gonna die and that is
such a horrible way to live your life and i
(30:48):
know that sports run on adrenaline you know
what I mean you're not going to play basketball with no adrenaline in your
body it's just not going to happen but it's so important to
know how to come back down same thing with cross-country
get hyped up for a race you're running it's a tough race you know what I mean
you got to learn how to come back down because in life you're going to have
situations that are tough to handle that are uncomfortable that are loud that
(31:10):
are prickly that you're just like oh and you have to know your limit you know
what I mean I have I have a baby she's one and when she's screaming her head off,
I know the tells in my nervous system when I'm like, yep, I need a break.
You know what I mean? I know the tells in my nervous system when it's detrimental
to my mental, my physical, my overall health and the health of my family and the people around me.
(31:34):
Those are the things, these are life skills that we can take the rest of our
lives. So that's what I'm doing when I'm working with high school and college athletes.
I'm teaching them what the nervous system is, why it's important,
how to use it to your advantage as not only an athlete, but as a human and that
you can take these skills with you into your career, into motherhood,
(31:54):
into marriage, into whatever you're going to do, all the above,
and just being a woman in the world and having the support, very basic tools, belly breathing,
closing your eyes, three deep breaths, box breathing.
I talk a lot about yoga nidras. Yoga nidras are a really down-regulating practice
to do maybe after a big game or a tough practice.
(32:18):
Something that brings your body and your mind back into balance because sports
are all about almost ejecting yourself from your body.
Everybody plays through pain. And how do you do that? You disassociate from your body.
But for women, that is one of the worst things you can do.
We need to be in our bodies to hear what is right in our intuition to know if
(32:41):
a situation is safe or not. We know that in our body.
So that's why I'm so passionate about it. It's like girls, women need to be
in their bodies, or it's kind of teaches you to jump out of them a little bit.
And so when you know how to do both, you're in control.
You know how to come back down. You know how to self regulate.
You don't need to go, I don't know, drink 10 shots to regulate yourself.
(33:05):
You don't need to smoke weed unless, you know you want to but you
know i mean you don't have an external substance that you
need to regulate yourself you have your own regulation
tool you know i'm saying because right sports is so intense intensity is really
tough on the nervous system you know i think of sometimes my sister and i talk
about this we walk into a basketball court and i hear the the sneaker squeaking
(33:29):
and the fluorescent lights and the ball oh just it's tough on my nervous system to this day.
And if I would have had the tools to integrate that, you know,
things probably would have been different.
So what I do is I just explain all of that. I give them the tools.
I show them how to work with their nervous system.
I show them how to use it to their advantage.
And not only on the court, like I said, but in life, you know,
(33:52):
when life gets loud, here's what we can do about it.
Here's how we can love ourselves through it.
And it starts, you can start with this on a basketball court, on a field hockey field,
you know, on a swimming pool, whatever it is so that's
that's really what I do and what I'm passionate about and hopefully will
you know make a difference in that in that vein yeah it's
(34:12):
interesting when I first started with the program that I am currently with I
started as a yoga instructor that's what and this has been 15 years so definitely
ahead of its time to be honest with you and I think people thought I was coming
in to help with quote unquote stretching.
And yoga is not about stretching.
(34:34):
I mean, like yoga is about breath, right? It is the connection of breath.
It is, you know, when you're talking about belly breathing or box breathing
or meditation, I mean, that is what yoga is.
I tell people all the time, you could sit on a mat or you can put your legs
up the wall or you could go into child's pose and do nothing else.
And you would be practicing yoga, right? The practice of breath,
(34:55):
you know, the power of breath.
It's interesting. I feel that, you know, there must be a lot of similarities
between what you're doing and the practice of yoga.
I'm a yoga instructor. So yeah. Okay. I guess I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah.
(35:15):
Okay. Yeah. So yeah, very similar. And it's interesting, because I,
you know, I would love to, I think the athletes,
get it after a while, and buy in, I don't love the word buy in,
because it kind of goes back to what you were talking about before,
like, you have to listen to what I'm saying. And that's not the point.
(35:35):
But there is a lot of resistance when you first start teaching the practice of yoga.
Some of it is probably because it's uncomfortable. No one wants to like sit
and be seen and no one wants to hear themselves breathe or have somebody else
hear them breathe. I mean, I get all of that.
But I also think that we live in a culture where everything is measured.
(35:57):
How many steps are you taking?
You know, how many shots did you take? You know,
how many likes did you get where everything is constantly measured
it's hard for people to understand the
benefit the multitude of benefits
from just being still when you think about that oh hundred percent well and
(36:18):
i the main thing is that it's biological so that's another thing i talk about
in my workshop is that it's a neuroplasticity thing when you're not used to
being still when you're When you're used to being in fight or flight,
when you're used to being in the sympathetic all the time,
trying to move into the parasympathetic is like trying to push a boulder up
a mountain. It feels awful.
(36:40):
And that's why we start slow. Close your eyes, three deep breaths.
It's going to be uncomfortable, but we're going to do it. you know what I mean and
it's such a different pair it's a
paradigm shift it really is especially for people who live
in that nervous system all the time like I used to I remember I
hated yoga I used to tell people I couldn't stand it I needed a real workout
(37:01):
and I you know and so I get it you know I get it when people are like this is
terrible I hate it because I did because I was so out of touch with my body
I was taught to be out of touch with my body because I was taught to suck it
up when I had literally torn leg events in my ankle.
And so, you know, I understand that aspect and I understand why people have resistance to it.
(37:23):
And so for me, my impetus, my objective is just to put it out there for when people need it.
You know, I think that people will come to it when they need it.
You can, everybody's ready at their own time in their own pace.
I would not have been ready for the work that I did until, what,
how old was I? I think I was like 24. It was when things really started to change.
(37:44):
And then I really could be myself because it was opening up parts of my body,
parts of my life that I had shut off.
And so it is a difference in biological chemistry because...
I want a major piece of the workshop, too, is understanding that there has to
be a neural link between sympathetic and the parasympathetic.
(38:06):
You can't just go back and forth. I mean, you can eventually.
You have to carve that pathway out in your brain.
If it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. So it is a practice. That's why it's
called practicing yoga, practicing meditation.
And you have to carve the neural pathway.
And especially for high school, college kids, they have more neuroplasticity before age 25. five.
(38:27):
It's easier for them to create that link.
And that's why I like getting in there right around then. It's like,
hey, it's a lot easier for you than a six-year-old to create a place of peace
within your brain, within your body that you can go to at any point.
You can do that now, five minutes a day.
Like you said, legs up the wall. And it's like, you don't even have to be quiet.
You can put on tones. You can put on piano. It doesn't matter.
(38:50):
People think that it's this big, grandiose thing. But once you get into the
hang of it, five minutes a day, you put on a face mask and you just lay down.
That's nervous system regulation too.
So I try to help people start slow because I understand that it's a tough leap
to make when all day long you're being told that you need to bite someone's
(39:11):
head off to score 20 points.
And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, listen to this meditation tape.
That's a tough jump to make. And so trying to
find ways to integrate both sides is is really tough
but it's also it's also the practice
right that's yeah yeah oh i
know we could talk forever but we do have to get cooled down
(39:32):
but before we do that megan do you have anything you want to
ask or any reflections i don't have
any questions but that was super informative and
i really appreciate you sharing your story i loved that thanks yeah
it was nice to share and hopefully hopefully it
will be helpful to some people who had a similar situation most
definitely yes absolutely all right
(39:55):
let's get cooled down so Paige tell us
what's your favorite soothing smell lavender times
a million I used lavender right before this I had lavender all over me nice
do you have a favorite female athlete right now oh my gosh I have so many hang
on I love Serena obviously wait I like had someone I was like obsessed with
(40:17):
recently who was it it was like kind of weird.
I love Kelsey Plum yeah like Asia Wilson and I love Caitlin Clark obviously
I love watching her play it's really fun yeah she really has and she's got a
lot of heat like she certainly does Oh,
(40:38):
I talk about somebody who needs some nervous system support.
Every time I listen to people, I'm like, Oh, this is a lot like I feel. So I love Caitlin.
I love I love everybody in the WNBA. It's been awesome to watch.
But yeah, and I'm a big, big fan. Serena.
Yeah, I am too. Yeah. And those people have moved to the mountains for girls
(40:59):
in sports. So I agree with that.
All right. So if talent weren't an issue, what sport would you love to excel in? Gymnastic.
I love it. I want to flip around in the air and run around and do flips and stuff.
I can't even do a cartwheel.
So if I couldn't kill myself, I would do gymnastics. That's so funny.
(41:22):
I think that's the number one answer. Yeah, hilarious.
But I think it's the number one answer. I wonder if we did it for men.
I don't think it would be. I think golf would be the number one answer.
Oh, yeah. If we did it for men. But it's just very funny the difference between men and women.
Well, thank you so much for being here. I know that people are going to find this so informative.
(41:45):
So if you guys are listening, thank you so much. Don't forget to follow us.
Make sure you're sharing our episodes. Join us on Instagram, peak, train like a girl.
Take a minute to explore our website because we are going to drop all the links
to where you can find Paige right there in the show notes.
Music.
Music.
(00:10):
Welcome to PEAK, Train Like a Girl, a podcast by girls in sport,
for girls and coaches in sport.
We're here to amplify your voice. It deserves to be heard.
At PEAK, we are a safe place for girls to hang out, learn, grow, and build community.
We empower girls in sport and their coaches with knowledge, resources,
(00:32):
and support we think is necessary in today's athletic environments to thrive.
Join us for bold conversations about experiences of girls in sport.
Our discussions will make you laugh, cry, cheer, for sure get frustrated.
And hopefully rethink the future of girls in sport for generations to come.
(00:53):
So whether you're walking, commuting, cleaning your dorm room, take us with you.
Follow us. It helps more than you can imagine. Check out our website and make
sure you share with a female athlete or coach you love.
I can't wait to introduce you to our next guest, Paige.
Paige is a former high school, excuse me, basketball player.
(01:17):
She is an advocate for social and emotional safety for girls in sport.
And she's currently working on some really cool resources to help high school
and college athletes understand healing and understanding their central nervous system.
I don't want to waste any more time. So I'm ready to get warmed up if you are, Paige.
Oh i'm always warmed up awesome well
(01:40):
let's get a little more into it dog because i have a dog vanilla or chocolate
chocolate always i'm eating chocolate as well love it beach or mountain oh probably
water all right so we're going beach.
Movie or netflix series
(02:03):
can i say book sure i love that you should totally add that to the mix i love
that was like a question that my that was a question of my what was that my
baby or my bridal shower one of my showers and i was like how well do you know
the bride and it was like movie or book and i was like if anybody gets this
wrong they like shouldn't be here,
(02:24):
that's hilarious i love that you and our oldest son he would say that too i
don't think he's watched a show on television for years so you you and him would get along famously,
last question road trip or plane oh i hate flying road trip i i oh i hate it
i do it if i have to but i hate it i yeah i will i will gladly stay on the ground
(02:47):
you and me both we're similar there It feels like we have more control, right?
Oh, bingo. It's definitely a psychological problem.
That's hilarious. And I'm sure we're going to get into that. Oh, yeah.
So why don't we start just getting to know you a little bit.
Tell us a little bit about your story surrounding sport.
(03:13):
Oh, yeah. It starts really early in my life, probably earlier than most,
I'd say. that didn't play like or go to the Olympics.
I started USA Swimming when I was six.
I had two days at seven.
And I hated swimming.
I never asked to swim. I asked not to swim, actually.
(03:37):
It was never up to me what I got to do, which affected me in many ways as I
got older. But swimming was really a tough sport.
And it's impacted the way that I live my life still today.
And I've had to walk back a lot of it. But I swam club swimming.
So six until I was like 12 or 13.
(03:58):
And then I started playing basketball like full time, we'll say.
But swimming really was tough because I never got to like just go home after school.
I always had practice. There was never a point in my life where I didn't know
what it was like to go home and not have practice even that early in life.
(04:19):
So that wasn't ideal for me.
I'm someone who really likes to have space to create, to relax and really did
a number on my nervous system.
So, I mean, I used to draw bruises on myself trying to get out of practice.
Like I one time I made my sister stay out in the cold, in the snow for like
(04:41):
two hours to see if my parents forgot about practice.
I kept sending her in to look at the time.
Oh, my God, I was insane. My mom eventually just yelled at me like,
Paige, you don't have to go to swimming.
So it just was an interesting, interesting dynamic, especially because I actually
was really good at swimming.
So I ended up being, I had a record in the 25 free when I was eight years old in Wisconsin State.
(05:05):
I just, it was really tough because
I was really good at it and I just loathed it. Oh, it was terrible.
And so eventually, you know, I played other sports. I played volleyball.
I did track and obviously basketball and softball.
But I always had swimming because USA Swimming is year round.
And a lot of the kids that do it do not have other sports.
(05:27):
So I got like bullied for missing two-a-days and
things like that that was fun so just
was a tough a tough environment to grow up in especially as a
really really really sensitive kid like I
was you know I really wanted voice lessons and things
like that but I couldn't because I had to swim so eventually I think I literally
wrote a letter to my parents because I I asked to quit probably every day for
(05:52):
eight years I don't know how they dealt with it but one day I literally wrote
a letter and I just begged. I said, please let me quit swimming this year.
I will focus on basketball and the rest is rock and roll history.
And so basketball became my main thing, actually became my life,
my identity, everything.
I did AAU forever, tons of AAU, tons of teams.
(06:16):
And then I actually ended up getting recruited by a private high school coach
to play at a nearby by high schools. I was going to go to the public school in my town.
And that actually ended up being a really good thing for me.
The school was the spot for me.
I don't think I would have done well in other schools, at a bigger school, but it was tough.
I had a lot of pressure on my shoulders. People knew who I was because I was
(06:38):
the kid they brought in to play basketball, really.
And at 14, that's a lot of pressure. I had a scholarship and.
It was tough. And at the time, they had poured a lot of money into the boys athletic program.
And so I was one of the first athletes on the girls side to be getting money to play there.
(07:01):
So a big honor. Yes. A lot of pressure for a girl with problems at home who
had been under pressure since birth, basically.
So it was a tough go of it. And I didn't super love basketball either.
I just didn't know if I had anything else I could do with my life. But it was my identity.
(07:21):
It's what got me love. It's what got me affection. It's what got me attention was being the best.
And so that's what I did. So I have a very tough kind of story around it.
I'm really grateful for the friends that I made. I'm really grateful for the things that I learned.
And I'm honestly grateful that I am hopefully able to help other people get
something out of sports, get something out of that, that isn't just mental health issues.
(07:45):
She was like, like I had a really bad anxiety and really bad is putting it mildly.
But back then in 2012 or whatever, people didn't know what that was.
So and, you know, when I graduated from high school, I didn't touch a basketball
till I was, I don't even know, like seven years, maybe six more years.
And it was really sad because, you know, my husband and I, sometimes when we play, I'm like my shot.
(08:10):
I'm not I'm graduated now like I
can say this about myself but like my shot is perfect because I
spent hours and hours and hours and hours these are real
skills that I developed you know and it's really sad that I wanted to divorce
myself from it so much so that's the whole kind of not very abridged version
but that's yeah I mean it's interesting so first of all I don't know if
(08:36):
you know this, but Megan swims. She swims at the University of Iowa.
So, yeah, I don't know, Megan, did you have any, I know you didn't have similar experiences,
but did you know other kids that just kind of dreaded, you know,
getting up at, you know, six o'clock in the morning and being in the pool and late at night?
(08:57):
Did you, could you sense that from other kids you swam with?
Definitely, yes. I would say that was, it was either I feel like you loved it
or, you know, no, this wasn't really your thing, the cold, the early mornings.
So that's completely understandable.
Yeah, I think that's true. I think because I swam also in a similar situation
at a young age and the same thing.
(09:19):
It was two days before school. I don't think I was very good,
by the way. It was, I think, anyways, that's a whole nother story.
But the point is, I didn't want to be there.
But you could really sense that. You could sense there were kids that really
kind of took to the water.
And then there were people like me that were like freezing before they ever stepped in.
So which is yeah just completely interesting i
(09:42):
do want to talk a little bit because i want to
make sure that we're clear with people when you're talking about getting scholarship
to play our money to play high school basketball someone was paying your tuition
to go to private school so i just want to make sure is that is that correct
we're being yeah there was it was a grant. It was a grant. It was like part of tuition.
(10:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and I'm not sure people realize and if,
you know, public school is out there, but private schools do cost money and
sometimes they can quote unquote recruit and they're,
you know, part of the incentive is let's say it's, you know,
$20,000 to go to school there.
They're going to pay half your tuition. You're going to come and you're
(10:26):
going to get to focus on this thing called back basketball I
mean it'll present you with more opportunities down the
line correct and I think on the on
its face they couldn't say it was an athletic scholarship and
it also was technically academic I did do very well on the test so yeah I don't
know if that's a PR nightmare that I just spilled the beans on that but people
(10:47):
knew that I was there to play basketball that's for sure of course I don't think
that's a secret I just think people to be clear that yeah no I don't think that's a secret.
There's, you know, all these conferences around here, you can tell that private
schools, they're recruiting kids to come and obviously get an education,
but also they're there to perform on these athletic teams.
(11:09):
I think the other thing that's interesting that you talk about is the pressure
of a high school athlete is significant.
I don't, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to downplay that.
I think that there is this significant, not only just to win,
but then also all this energy is being pumped into you so you can go on to do
(11:31):
something else, whether that's to perform at the college level or perform at
the professional level.
And you do see, you know, one of two things happen.
You see kids that, you know, for lack of a better word, suck it up buttercup.
And then they go on to college or professional sports and that is their life
and they live that lifestyle.
(11:53):
Or they completely burn out by high school.
And I think one of the things we talk a lot about with girls in sport in particular
is that the attrition rate, the dropout rate is so high for girls in sport.
And we do know that while you're talking about a lot of the negative impact
of girls in sport, we also know the positive impact is if we can keep girls in sport longer,
(12:19):
they go on to perform much better at other things.
Like in particular in the work world.
So what do you think some of the things that we could be doing as coaches to
help recognize athletes are suffering from anxiety?
They're also suffering from lack of balance for lack of a better word with sports and social life.
(12:46):
It sounds like a lot of your pressure didn't just come from coaching staff.
Steph, it sounds like a lot of your pressure also came from home.
Oh, yes. Pressure came from the coaches. Pressure came from my parents, my lifestyle.
It was a lot. Looking back, it's honestly hard to talk about sometimes.
(13:07):
I can't even imagine. I have a daughter now. If people ever treated her like
that, it would be so tough. I would never let it happen. Let me be clear.
I think the biggest thing that I had to say about coaching.
And this people don't like when I talk about this, but it's the truth.
You know, anything that you're preaching, or anytime that you're interacting
(13:30):
with people, you're projecting what's happening inside of you onto them.
So if you're coming down on a kid really hard on something, if you're talking about their character,
you're making big grandiose statements about them as a person to maybe an assistant
coach, or maybe the whole team, which used to happen on my team,
that's something going on within you.
(13:50):
And maybe you're a really good coach. Maybe, you know what I mean?
Maybe you're really kind to your athletes.
But if you're noticing what you're saying, you have to really look inside because
whatever is in your heart, whatever is in your life, whatever is in your mind
is going to be what you're saying to them and what you're projecting onto them.
And these kids, high school, college, are so impressionable.
(14:13):
And whatever you're downloading into them, that will likely become part of their
internal voice, whether that's positive, negative, what have you.
So if some kid on your team is struggling with something, step one is to look
within you. What have you been saying? How have you been acting?
What have you, what behaviors, what mental talk have you been modeling?
(14:34):
Have you been playing favorites? Have you been openly yelling at one kid more than the rest?
You know, have you been talking about things that are beyond sport?
Like I said, their character, their worth as a human, I mean, their weight.
Hopefully, you know, people get this by now, but that wasn't something that
was off limits when I played.
And it was such an unhealthy, toxic environment.
(14:57):
And I hope that things have gotten better. But people who will be listening
to this podcast are people that care about this stuff.
And so I think the biggest thing is when you're seeing someone struggle.
Again, look within you. Okay, what's been going on internally for you?
What's been going on in the ether around your team? You know what I mean?
Maybe something's happening.
And I always suggest that.
(15:20):
That you see them as human, they're kids. I think that there's a weird thing
that happens when people get in positions of authority.
They think that A, they're going to impose their will, their life beliefs onto
these kids because they think it's the right way.
Coaching is an ego trip. It just is. Even for the most un-egotistical among us,
(15:42):
you are being exalted to a position of influence and so it's important to understand
that we all like to hear our own voice right but sometimes you need to listen
and to remember that these kids have so much going on you know.
Adults have so much in their daily lives kids have a ton too and don't just
(16:05):
pay it lip service i remember my coach saying like oh kids have so much on these
on their plate these days i was then why are you so terrible?
I was like, then why are you such a psychopath?
If you know that, you should do something about it.
And so again, it's an inside job. Coaching, everything in life is an inside job.
So always seeing how you're reacting to them and just listening to them and
(16:27):
listening to them without an agenda.
You're not going to be like, oh, well, it's going to make you tougher. Stop with that stuff.
We don't need that anymore in the world. And in all honesty,
to see the world is changing so much the workforce is changing
i remember i don't know if people remember this this
stupid quote was a big thing when i was playing i was
like i can't even say without laughing unreachable kids become unemployable
(16:52):
until i've never heard that oh my god i was like like literally the whole grandiose
big declarations about what kids were going to do with their lives based on that practice that day.
Like we had that all the time. And they used to get like.
How someone acts on a court says a lot about them as a person.
(17:14):
I'm like, sometimes I don't write very well during the day because I'm tired
and I have a life. That doesn't mean anything about my value as a human.
But at the time, that's what was beat over our heads.
And so I think a lot of that stuff is just so damaging when you're starting
to make any type of insinuation about their worth, their work ethic.
(17:37):
You know you have to be really careful there because
these are the voices that particularly girls will
take with them into their lives and then
they have daughters and sons and they're usually not
very kind to them because the world wasn't kind to them either so this
is a really vicious cycle because it all involves the
nervous system what type of programming what type of messaging we put into it
(17:58):
so that's what i always really impressed upon coaches it's like you know You've
got to check your own voice because you really need to come from a good place
and from a place that isn't all about you.
Yeah, I would agree with that. And I want to come back to the nervous system
piece because I know that's something you're really working hard on and I want
(18:21):
to make sure we give some light to that.
But I do want to circle back and talk about, I hear what you're saying about,
the coaching, the coaching, and listen, we're here to educate coaches.
And one of the things I believe is that you can't be a good coach unless you
(18:42):
have the information, education, and resources to be able to do that.
And some of my big things, and the reason we're showing up here is that particularly
for girls in sport, it has been one model, and that is boys basketball football,
you know, and everything else kind of fit into that agenda.
And that's not the way it works. You can't coach a girl the way you coach a
(19:05):
boy for many, many different reasons. Boys don't menstruate, girls do.
Boys don't have breasts, girls do. I mean, there's a million reasons, right?
And the other thing is, is that even as you're saying some of this stuff,
you know, some of it is different.
Like I wouldn't, I don't even know what I would yell at an amp.
I coach a coach cross country, a coach running, what would I possibly yell?
(19:27):
Right, like, right, different than basketball, right? So some of it is,
you know, when you're trying to apply all of these, you know,
these quotes, you know, and trust me, I've got, I've been around enough,
you know, ADs where they're regurgitating, you know, men's basketball,
you know, quotes and men's football quotes, and they're not applicable to my
(19:48):
to me or my sport at all, by the way, I don't think we're one foot away from being exceptional.
Like that's just not the way I don't, I don't think the world works that way.
And I hear what you're saying there.
And I think you and I are on the same page there, but I want to,
I want to pause for a minute and I want to keep going back because I'm having this situation.
(20:08):
And inevitably we have a situation every year where you can tell that some of
the issues that are happening with an athlete are stemming from, um,
issues that are happening in the home. And there are boundaries,
there is only so much we can be doing as a coach.
You know, but when parents are interjecting, and they are the toxic piece of the equation.
(20:34):
And, you know, when you're coaching a team, whether it's 60 kids on a swim team,
or, you know, 15 kids on a basketball court,
you are responsible for making everybody's experience And when 90% of your effort
is going towards one athlete because of their caretaker or parents.
You know, that's a really tough way also to try to navigate a situation.
(20:57):
So what is a parent's responsibility in all of this, I guess,
is what I'm trying to ask you.
You oh that's a very good
loaded challenging multi-dimensional question
because I think well first
of all I'm glad you're talking about it because there was no resources for me
at the time I mean my I don't want to I try not
(21:18):
to I try to keep my my family stuff
as private as possible but at the end of the day it's the
truth so I mean I had my dad coming
to practice to my high school practices yep and
I can picture it I've seen it yeah I was gonna say
I mean that's generally people when they
(21:38):
hear my story they're like oh boy and people like
my sister had a really rough time with this like people
would see my dad coming like it was it's tough and so
one I have a ton of empathy for the kids in
those situations and kids react to
it differently but I think you know even just talking about it
now I'm like maybe that's one of the reasons why I had a target on
(22:00):
my back from that coach is because there is an ego battle between going on between
him and my dad and it was really tough I just wanted to like go to school and
have friends like you know I mean I just was like I don't need this but as far
as managing that if you are a conscious person I think.
Even thinking about it in a way that is constructive to their mental health
(22:23):
is so much more than so many athletes get.
I mean, nobody gave like any, didn't care at all about my mental health at the
time, didn't see me as a human.
And I, in my time coaching too, I didn't have any parents that were too tough,
but I could tell them when there were things at home and coming from a background
like that, I kind of knew how to address it, I'd say. and in my studies with
(22:46):
the nervous system, I understand that.
So first of all, the nervous system is formed between mainly,
it's mainly downloaded between birth and age seven.
So whatever is going on at the home at that time is really going to wire the
person for the rest of their lives.
And that doesn't mean it's not changeable. It absolutely is.
But that's kind of what you're given to work with.
(23:06):
And so a lot of times when I see girls, like
when I was coaching coaching sixth grade basketball and one of
the girls who I just adored they were all so sweet I I
loved them to death I loved working with them and she was always talking about
food always always talking about dieting always talking about gluten-free this
gluten-free that and I had a pretty
(23:28):
bad eating disorder so I I knew I knew what was going on sure and so I.
I honestly, I gave her like more love. I gave all the kids a lot of love. I'm not going to lie.
But I, I like talked to her a good amount.
And eventually I didn't pull her aside. I feel like that sounds a little much,
but I was just like, Hey, like, what's going on? Tell me about your life.
(23:52):
You know, I wanted her to know that she had a friend, because I look back at
my time and I had no allies. I mean, being a 14 year old in the world that I
was in, I was so sweet and so kind and really wanted to do the right thing.
I wanted everybody around me to feel good. I want everybody to like me.
I wanted to feel safe. And that just wasn't an option.
(24:13):
And if I you know there are some people looking back now who
really who really didn't like care about me and and
I I can't tell you the debt of gratitude I feel in my body to this day to them
and this is the good thing of sports it's like they're really you really can
have a positive impact if you're intentional if you slow down if you again I
(24:36):
hate I hate the term pulling aside side,
but you just talk to that person. I'm like, how are you doing?
You've been feeling a little tense lately and it's okay. You know what I mean?
Always saying it's okay to feel what you're feeling.
Whatever it is, you're angry, you're mad, you're upset, you're sad, you're annoyed.
All of that is okay. And I think that that's the first thing if you were to talk to a kid would say.
(24:59):
And I said that to her, this sweet little girl.
I was like, you know, I know that the world it's really confusing sometimes
about the messages that we get but you know
I understand and whatever you're feeling
about it is okay and I'm here to help you
know and I said if you ever need to talk I'm always around at this point this
is back in the day they were always trying to get my snapchat because they're
(25:21):
in sixth grade and no have no chill and they just wouldn't they would find me
and I kept having to block them and they'd be like did you block me and I was
like yeah because you can't snapchat me.
But they're a lot older now. And sometimes I still talk to them.
And so awesome. You know, I because I cared about them as individuals.
(25:42):
It wasn't being like, this is my philosophy on life, kid. Like,
I think that you should only eat gluten on Fridays or whatever.
Like, I just wanted to listen to them. It wasn't about me imposing my will on them.
It just was about me being a friend and being someone who actively cared about them.
Them and in all honesty if you have one of those situations
(26:03):
where a whole team is skewed because one kid's family is
so messed up the only thing that i
think would even remotely make a dent is if you
pour into them and you should be pouring your whole
team of course i know it's hard when you have like a massive team
of like 60 kids or something but i think as well we had 12 kids
and i was a big part of that roster you
(26:23):
know and in all honesty kind of where i went the team
went so yeah and so and
I was acutely aware of that but you know even I'm talking
about it now I'm like yeah all those other creepy dynamics that play
between the men in my life I was not aware of at the time but right I think
the big thing always is making sure people know that you care about them and
that you're not act and not in like the old school boomer way where you're like
(26:47):
I care about you so I'm gonna hurt you like you know like I got a lot I mean
genuinely caring about them as humans,
and not, again, not coming with your agenda, but just listening to what's going on in their lives.
Because you'll find, you'll see what's going on.
And you also will likely soften them.
Like, I had hardened my heart against the world, and especially against basketball.
(27:09):
But if I had felt that there was somebody who had my best interest at heart.
You know, things could have softened and gotten a lot better.
So I think when kids have one ally in the world, things can really change for them.
And it can also really change for your team, you know, because that person feels safe.
And when one person feels safe,
I really think that that has a cumulative effect on the rest of the team.
(27:32):
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that was really...
Really profound, really well said. One of the things that we talk a lot about
with our athletes is, you know, every motion is a valid emotion and you should
feel all of your emotions.
And I ask now if, if an athlete wants to, or can compartmentalize,
(27:56):
you know, can you compartmentalize and be able to run this race?
So basically I'm asking them, do you want to run the race?
Which Because I don't want to give kids the option to opt out so easily.
I want them to really be thoughtful.
Because I think a lot of times when something happens that they can't control
(28:17):
and the option is to not do something, they actually feel less and less in control.
But when I found that if I asked them, can you compartmentalize this or do you
want to compartmentalize this? And we explain what compartmentalizing is.
It gives them power again. And that's what it comes down to.
Right. I guess we talked about that in the beginning. Would you rather get on a plane or drive?
(28:37):
And you and I are both like, no, I want to be in a drill. I want to drive.
So basically you're giving them the power to control the situation.
And it doesn't mean that they are going to perform well that day,
by the way, but it means that they own the process.
And I think that that is super important.
So I think that what that summary of all of that was really good and,
(29:00):
you know, pouring into people. And I pull and again, maybe not the right words,
but, you know, taking people aside all the time.
And that's one of the beauties of coaching cross country, you know,
not so easy when you coach swimming when they're underwater the whole time.
Basketball but yeah you know there's a lot of opportunity to
talk when you're running so that's one
(29:23):
of the nice things so you let's go back and finish talking about some of the
work you are doing specifically with the central nervous system for girls in
sport at the high school and collegiate level yeah absolutely and like you just
said like when you were talking
about that, you know, saying, can you compartmentalize?
(29:45):
You need that life skill. You know what I mean? Like, me sitting and hating
my life for four years for six months out of the year, that's not a life skill.
All I learned was how to.
Ride my central nervous system you know that's
not a life skill if anything that's a very detrimental skill that actually
took like the whole thing but you know
(30:05):
it was a really really tough tough road to
walk and so learning these skills like that's
why I love sports like there are so many life skills that can be
taught and shared and that's why I'm so passionate about
the nervous system in general but particularly for athletes
because the nervous system is so sensitive for so
many people and it's supposed to
(30:26):
be sensitive you know it's designed to keep us alive and in
sports you're almost put into situations that
feel life or death you know like when i used to listen to the anthem
before my basketball games pretty sure
that's what gladiators felt like walking into the coliseum like i
literally felt like i was gonna die and that is
such a horrible way to live your life and i
(30:48):
know that sports run on adrenaline you know
what I mean you're not going to play basketball with no adrenaline in your
body it's just not going to happen but it's so important to
know how to come back down same thing with cross-country
get hyped up for a race you're running it's a tough race you know what I mean
you got to learn how to come back down because in life you're going to have
situations that are tough to handle that are uncomfortable that are loud that
(31:10):
are prickly that you're just like oh and you have to know your limit you know
what I mean I have I have a baby she's one and when she's screaming her head off,
I know the tells in my nervous system when I'm like, yep, I need a break.
You know what I mean? I know the tells in my nervous system when it's detrimental
to my mental, my physical, my overall health and the health of my family and the people around me.
(31:34):
Those are the things, these are life skills that we can take the rest of our
lives. So that's what I'm doing when I'm working with high school and college athletes.
I'm teaching them what the nervous system is, why it's important,
how to use it to your advantage as not only an athlete, but as a human and that
you can take these skills with you into your career, into motherhood,
(31:54):
into marriage, into whatever you're going to do, all the above,
and just being a woman in the world and having the support, very basic tools, belly breathing,
closing your eyes, three deep breaths, box breathing.
I talk a lot about yoga nidras. Yoga nidras are a really down-regulating practice
to do maybe after a big game or a tough practice.
(32:18):
Something that brings your body and your mind back into balance because sports
are all about almost ejecting yourself from your body.
Everybody plays through pain. And how do you do that? You disassociate from your body.
But for women, that is one of the worst things you can do.
We need to be in our bodies to hear what is right in our intuition to know if
(32:41):
a situation is safe or not. We know that in our body.
So that's why I'm so passionate about it. It's like girls, women need to be
in their bodies, or it's kind of teaches you to jump out of them a little bit.
And so when you know how to do both, you're in control.
You know how to come back down. You know how to self regulate.
You don't need to go, I don't know, drink 10 shots to regulate yourself.
(33:05):
You don't need to smoke weed unless, you know you want to but you
know i mean you don't have an external substance that you
need to regulate yourself you have your own regulation
tool you know i'm saying because right sports is so intense intensity is really
tough on the nervous system you know i think of sometimes my sister and i talk
about this we walk into a basketball court and i hear the the sneaker squeaking
(33:29):
and the fluorescent lights and the ball oh just it's tough on my nervous system to this day.
And if I would have had the tools to integrate that, you know,
things probably would have been different.
So what I do is I just explain all of that. I give them the tools.
I show them how to work with their nervous system.
I show them how to use it to their advantage.
And not only on the court, like I said, but in life, you know,
(33:52):
when life gets loud, here's what we can do about it.
Here's how we can love ourselves through it.
And it starts, you can start with this on a basketball court, on a field hockey field,
you know, on a swimming pool, whatever it is so that's
that's really what I do and what I'm passionate about and hopefully will
you know make a difference in that in that vein yeah it's
(34:12):
interesting when I first started with the program that I am currently with I
started as a yoga instructor that's what and this has been 15 years so definitely
ahead of its time to be honest with you and I think people thought I was coming
in to help with quote unquote stretching.
And yoga is not about stretching.
(34:34):
I mean, like yoga is about breath, right? It is the connection of breath.
It is, you know, when you're talking about belly breathing or box breathing
or meditation, I mean, that is what yoga is.
I tell people all the time, you could sit on a mat or you can put your legs
up the wall or you could go into child's pose and do nothing else.
And you would be practicing yoga, right? The practice of breath,
(34:55):
you know, the power of breath.
It's interesting. I feel that, you know, there must be a lot of similarities
between what you're doing and the practice of yoga.
I'm a yoga instructor. So yeah. Okay. I guess I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah.
(35:15):
Okay. Yeah. So yeah, very similar. And it's interesting, because I,
you know, I would love to, I think the athletes,
get it after a while, and buy in, I don't love the word buy in,
because it kind of goes back to what you were talking about before,
like, you have to listen to what I'm saying. And that's not the point.
(35:35):
But there is a lot of resistance when you first start teaching the practice of yoga.
Some of it is probably because it's uncomfortable. No one wants to like sit
and be seen and no one wants to hear themselves breathe or have somebody else
hear them breathe. I mean, I get all of that.
But I also think that we live in a culture where everything is measured.
(35:57):
How many steps are you taking?
You know, how many shots did you take? You know,
how many likes did you get where everything is constantly measured
it's hard for people to understand the
benefit the multitude of benefits
from just being still when you think about that oh hundred percent well and
(36:18):
i the main thing is that it's biological so that's another thing i talk about
in my workshop is that it's a neuroplasticity thing when you're not used to
being still when you're When you're used to being in fight or flight,
when you're used to being in the sympathetic all the time,
trying to move into the parasympathetic is like trying to push a boulder up
a mountain. It feels awful.
(36:40):
And that's why we start slow. Close your eyes, three deep breaths.
It's going to be uncomfortable, but we're going to do it. you know what I mean and
it's such a different pair it's a
paradigm shift it really is especially for people who live
in that nervous system all the time like I used to I remember I
hated yoga I used to tell people I couldn't stand it I needed a real workout
(37:01):
and I you know and so I get it you know I get it when people are like this is
terrible I hate it because I did because I was so out of touch with my body
I was taught to be out of touch with my body because I was taught to suck it
up when I had literally torn leg events in my ankle.
And so, you know, I understand that aspect and I understand why people have resistance to it.
(37:23):
And so for me, my impetus, my objective is just to put it out there for when people need it.
You know, I think that people will come to it when they need it.
You can, everybody's ready at their own time in their own pace.
I would not have been ready for the work that I did until, what,
how old was I? I think I was like 24. It was when things really started to change.
(37:44):
And then I really could be myself because it was opening up parts of my body,
parts of my life that I had shut off.
And so it is a difference in biological chemistry because...
I want a major piece of the workshop, too, is understanding that there has to
be a neural link between sympathetic and the parasympathetic.
(38:06):
You can't just go back and forth. I mean, you can eventually.
You have to carve that pathway out in your brain.
If it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. So it is a practice. That's why it's
called practicing yoga, practicing meditation.
And you have to carve the neural pathway.
And especially for high school, college kids, they have more neuroplasticity before age 25. five.
(38:27):
It's easier for them to create that link.
And that's why I like getting in there right around then. It's like,
hey, it's a lot easier for you than a six-year-old to create a place of peace
within your brain, within your body that you can go to at any point.
You can do that now, five minutes a day.
Like you said, legs up the wall. And it's like, you don't even have to be quiet.
You can put on tones. You can put on piano. It doesn't matter.
(38:50):
People think that it's this big, grandiose thing. But once you get into the
hang of it, five minutes a day, you put on a face mask and you just lay down.
That's nervous system regulation too.
So I try to help people start slow because I understand that it's a tough leap
to make when all day long you're being told that you need to bite someone's
(39:11):
head off to score 20 points.
And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, listen to this meditation tape.
That's a tough jump to make. And so trying to
find ways to integrate both sides is is really tough
but it's also it's also the practice
right that's yeah yeah oh i
know we could talk forever but we do have to get cooled down
(39:32):
but before we do that megan do you have anything you want to
ask or any reflections i don't have
any questions but that was super informative and
i really appreciate you sharing your story i loved that thanks yeah
it was nice to share and hopefully hopefully it
will be helpful to some people who had a similar situation most
definitely yes absolutely all right
(39:55):
let's get cooled down so Paige tell us
what's your favorite soothing smell lavender times
a million I used lavender right before this I had lavender all over me nice
do you have a favorite female athlete right now oh my gosh I have so many hang
on I love Serena obviously wait I like had someone I was like obsessed with
(40:17):
recently who was it it was like kind of weird.
I love Kelsey Plum yeah like Asia Wilson and I love Caitlin Clark obviously
I love watching her play it's really fun yeah she really has and she's got a
lot of heat like she certainly does Oh,
(40:38):
I talk about somebody who needs some nervous system support.
Every time I listen to people, I'm like, Oh, this is a lot like I feel. So I love Caitlin.
I love I love everybody in the WNBA. It's been awesome to watch.
But yeah, and I'm a big, big fan. Serena.
Yeah, I am too. Yeah. And those people have moved to the mountains for girls
(40:59):
in sports. So I agree with that.
All right. So if talent weren't an issue, what sport would you love to excel in? Gymnastic.
I love it. I want to flip around in the air and run around and do flips and stuff.
I can't even do a cartwheel.
So if I couldn't kill myself, I would do gymnastics. That's so funny.
(41:22):
I think that's the number one answer. Yeah, hilarious.
But I think it's the number one answer. I wonder if we did it for men.
I don't think it would be. I think golf would be the number one answer.
Oh, yeah. If we did it for men. But it's just very funny the difference between men and women.
Well, thank you so much for being here. I know that people are going to find this so informative.
(41:45):
So if you guys are listening, thank you so much. Don't forget to follow us.
Make sure you're sharing our episodes. Join us on Instagram, peak, train like a girl.
Take a minute to explore our website because we are going to drop all the links
to where you can find Paige right there in the show notes.
Music.
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