November 18, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of The Personality Couch, we (licensed clinical psychologists Doc Bok and Doc Fish) explore the origins and nuances of schizotypal personality disorder, its genetic links to schizophrenia, and the clinical observations that define it. We discuss the evolution of the term 'schizotypal' in the DSM, the implications of schizotypy, and how environmental factors and social learning influence its development. We also uncover observable traits of schizotypal individuals, their social interactions, and self-concept, providing a comprehensive overview of this intriguing personality disorder that is not quite psychotic, but close.
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Chapters 00:00 Intro & History of Schizotypal Personality 01:34 Genetic Research on Schizotypal 05:17 Clinical Research on Schizotypal 08:47 Schizotypal in the DSM 09:29 Schizotypy and Borderline Personality Organization 12:17 Schizotypy Defined 14:32 Schizotaxia Defined 17:39 Schizotypic Endophenotypes Explained 19:57 When Schizotypy Manifests 21:28 Observable Traits of Schizotypal Personality Disorder 30:44 Summary and Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:00:00):
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice. I'm yourhost, Doc Bok,
and I'm here with my co-host,Doc Fish. We
are both licensed clinicalpsychologists and
private practice. And todaywe are continuing
our schizotyal personality series. In
(01:00:21):
this episode, we unpack schizotyal'sgenetic
link to schizophrenia, aswell as how they
appear socially and in clinical settings.
We also continue to explorethe fascinating
topic of schizotypy that encompassesthe schizoid,
schizotyal, and schizophreniacontinuum of
disorders. I am so excitedabout this episode.
(01:00:45):
Let's dive in. We'll start with a little bitof history. So there used to be like a
schizophrenia-like personalitythat came on
the map in the early yearsof psychoanalysis.
And there were a lot of namesfor it at the
time before it became schizotyal.So these
names included like borderlineschizophrenia,
ambulatory schizophrenia, theas-if personality,
(01:01:09):
schizoid character, amongother things. So
theorists used a number ofways to study it,
but we can mostly condense it down to two
lines of thought, geneticstudies and clinical
experience or research. Right. Yes. Andlet's remember this was way
before schizotyal personality disorder
(01:01:30):
showed up in the DSM in 1980.But let's take a peek
at that genetic line ofresearch. Okay. So
this research line includedtheorists like
Kraepelin, Bleuler, Kretschmer,Kalman, and
Slater who looked mostlyat genetics. They
didn't consider the how or why this
(01:01:51):
personality developed. They justlooked at the genes.
Specifically, these researchers looked at
biological relatives of schizophrenicpatients
who had nonpsychotic but aberrant odd
personality states. So these nonpsychoticpersonalities
were termed latent schizophrenia,schizoid
(01:02:13):
personality or schizoid character,and schizoform
abnormalities. These characterswere described
as eccentric and odd, irritableand unreasonable,
socially isolated, having analoof or a more
cold demeanor and suspicious.And these odd
(01:02:33):
personalities were found in the geneticline of those with schizophrenia.
So theorist, Rado actuallysaid that certain
personalities live at risk of developingschizophrenia.
He used the word schizotyals to describe thesepersonalities and they were said to
be like a certain schizotype.And one might
(01:02:55):
argue this is when schizotypaland schizotype
came on the map. Thanks to Rado. He also
noted that the two core defectspresent in the
schizotype's personality were a diminishedcapacity for pleasure. So what he called
like a pleasure deficiencythat's driven by
genetics. And then the secondone is problems
(01:03:15):
understanding like theirbody and space and
potential body awareness,or like body image
distortions. So this involves the
proprioceptive system. So being clumsy,maybe having an odd
way of walking or moving,maybe feeling like
one arm is longer than theother. Now note,
this is not psychosis, butit's distortions
(01:03:37):
involving the body. So forexample, like not
genuinely believing thatthere's a chip in
your arm, which would bepsychosis, but just
feeling like one arm is too long.
Yes, yes. That's an importantdistinction.
It's not full blown psychosis,but it is like
odd experiences of the body in space or
(01:03:59):
misperceptions of the body, almostlike a detachment from
the body, which is really a type of
dissociation or maybe like whosebody is this and why does
it feel different? It's a disconnect, a
split, but from the body andnot necessarily from
reality.
Exactly. And it's really tricky to
(01:04:21):
understand, but it's very muchnot image based. So it's
going to be a disconnect from the body
versus like a fixation on thebody or body part as
in body dysmorphia.
Yes, yes, right on. Yeah. Soin body dysmorphia,
it's a fixation on a perceivedflaw in appearance
(01:04:42):
leading to compulsive behaviorsto change it.
Here, Rado is describingthe schizotypal's
disconnect and dissociationfrom their own
body in space, not fully inanother universe,
like psychosis, but like not fullyin their own body at times.
And to be clear, this is onlyone part of the
(01:05:03):
schizotypal personality thatRado was describing.
But now we move away from like only
genetics and let's look at theclinical researchers
of the schizotypal character.
Yes. All right. So the clinical research
theorists were Zilboorg, Deutsch,Hoch, Polatin, and
(01:05:24):
Meehl. So these were some of the top
researchers who drew from clinicalexperience to find
themes in certain personalities. So they
identified patients with schizophrenialike features.
And we've already mentionedsome of these names
already. So things like borderlineschizophrenia,
ambulatory schizophrenia, the as if
(01:05:45):
personality, pseudo neurotic schizophrenia,and schizotypal
personality. These schizotypicpersonality
is were most commonly described as having
some deficits and thinkingpatterns or just
being cognitively like offalong with lack
of deep interpersonal relationships.
(01:06:07):
And then another researcher, Kety and
colleagues found some commonalitiesamong those with
what was called borderlineschizophrenia. So
those commonalities includedstrange thinking
resulting in odd communication,micropsychosis, such
as cognitive disorganizationand depersonalization.
(01:06:27):
Which this is interesting because we just talkedabout Rado's observations of being
disconnected from the body.
Which is depersonalization.
Yeah.
And number three is shallow social
relationships and sexual experiences.And then the last
one is neurosis or nervous energy.
Right. Yes, yes. So Meehl was the most
(01:06:51):
influential researcher here, mostlyin the 1960s. And
his work is still being used in others
research, which is pretty cool.But Doc Fish, I'm hoping
you can tell me what exactly Meehlcontributed to this field.
Absolutely. So he notedfour common traits
in these schizophrenia likepatients. So one,
(01:07:12):
cognitive slippage or likebeing on the verge of
psychosis, such as like makingloose associations
and thoughts. Number two, seeing the self
as unlovable and prone torejection, leading
to increased social anxiety.Number three,
ambivalence. So contradictoryattitudes or
emotions. And then numberfour, anhedonia,
(01:07:34):
which is a decreased capacityfor pleasure.
Now these four things wouldlead to either
an odd or eccentric character or even like
full blown schizophrenia.But we'll get more
into his super cool theoryhere in a little
bit.
Yes, yes, we will. Yep. So interestingly, Millon,our favorite personality theorist,
(01:07:56):
took both the genetic and theclinical lines of
thought into his conceptualizationof schizotypal
individuals as what he calledstructurally
defective personalities ora personality that
is backsliding, disintegrating and
straddling the line of realityand non reality. Okay.
(01:08:17):
So what psychodynamic theorypreviously called
borderline levels of personalityorganization,
Millon like took that sameconcept and called
it structurally defective.Yes, yes, I think
so. Uh huh. So if that interestsyou, we do
have another episode inthe works on these
(01:08:38):
structurally defective personality types.
So make sure you subscribeso you don't miss
that one. All right. But what about
schizotypal in the DSM? Yes. Soschizotypal as a term
we know today came about from diluting
schizoid and its connections toschizophrenia and the
(01:08:58):
non psychotic schizophrenia like disorder
that existed with great frequencyamong relatives
with schizophrenia.
Ooh. So what you're saying is we took our
crappy definition of schizoidand its possible
connection to schizophrenia and defined
schizotypal as the gray in between.So the borderland
(01:09:20):
or the borderline area of functioning.
Exactly. Ah ha. Okay. So thenrelatedly, the concept
of borderline was also gainingtraction in
the 1960s and 1970s. Andthis popular word
took on a number of meanings. So Kety
said that borderline includesmarginal forms of
(01:09:44):
schizophrenia.
Okay. And then it's also included what we
just referenced. So characterorganization,
which came from Kernberg. So basically
it's like what state a personalityis in like,
is it neurotic, psychotic or somewhere in
the borderline middle? Borderlinewas also
a term used to describe an unstable
(01:10:05):
personality disorder, which isthe borderline we know
now today in the DSM makes it confusing.
Always, always, becausewe like to use the
same word for everything in this field. I
think we've talked about that in every
series thus far, we use thesame word to describe
different concepts. So here we had to
(01:10:27):
clarify what borderlines wewere talking about as
they related to the schizoid,schizotypal,
schizophrenia continuum,and also which ones
didn't belong in that category at all. So
then this pushed schizotypalas a personality
disorder into existenceand then made it a
(01:10:47):
thing in the DSM III. So schizotypal in
the DSM is according to Kernberg, the
"intermingling of the most severeschizoid personalities
and the tail end of schizophrenia."
Yes, highlighting that it's a continuum. Soschizoid to schizophrenia continuum and
(01:11:08):
schizotypals are in thatmiddle place on the
continuum. Like they're notquite psychotic,
but maybe close.
Yeah, borderline.
But then some said to just take out the
schizotypal stuff and put it withthe schizophrenia stuff.
But eventually it landed inCluster A personality
disorder category alongsideschizoid and paranoid.
(01:11:30):
But guess what? If you look at the
schizophrenia spectrum disordersin the DSM, like where
schizophrenia is, you findthis little tiny
paragraph about schizotypalpersonality disorder
there as well.
Interesting.
Both places.
Yeah. Okay. Well, I have a fun fact for
you, Doc Fish. So with theDSM III, when the
(01:11:53):
schizotypal personality disordercame on the
map, we actually saw a decreasein the diagnosis
of schizophrenia and an increase in
schizophrenia related personalitydisorders. So perhaps
delineating between pre-psychotic
personalities and full out schizophreniawas helpful.
(01:12:14):
Perhaps maybe.
But let's get into the conceptof schizotypy
here, because I think thisis one of the most
helpful things to understandthis schizoid,
schizotypal, schizophreniaspectrum. So Doc
Fish, let's look at Meehl's model ofschizotypal psychopathology.
(01:12:35):
Okay. So we are going to simplify this
because it's super complex. Imean, considering it's
human development. So thefirst part of human
development involves geneticsand DNA, which
eventually influences personality.So there is
a DNA based genetic liabilityfor schizophrenia,
(01:12:56):
originally called the schizogene.
Yes. But now we know it'smore than just one
gene, of course. So technicallyit's schizogenes.
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Now this also involves
epigenetic factors, which wewon't dive into because
it's more biology based. But essentially,
epigenetic factors includethings that interact
(01:13:18):
with genetics and alter the expressionof the schizogenes.
So the genes don't change, right? But for
some people, the schizogenewill express itself
overtly. And then for some people, it
won't because of these likeenvironmental or as
you're saying, epigenetic factors. Yeah.
(01:13:39):
Exactly. And similarly, social learning
influences impact genetic andgenetic expression. So
social learning influences includethings that we
observe, imitate and model basedon reinforcement.
So things like maybe havinga positive role
model, positive attachments, justearly relationships,
(01:13:59):
healthy peer interactions, et cetera. So
having more positive social learninginfluences may
decrease the likelihood of developing
schizophrenia or psychosis whilehaving negative social
learning influences may increasethat risk.
Mm-hmm. Right. So depending on the
environment and life experiences,trauma, caregivers,
(01:14:22):
upbringing, resources, etcetera, et cetera,
the schizogene may or maynot fully express
itself. Okay. But then wealso have to look at
a super fascinating conceptcalled schizotaxia
in the brain. Okay. So the schizogene or
schizogenes influence the developmentof the central nervous
(01:14:46):
system, including the brain.And this results in
an impaired neural hardwiringcalled schizotaxia.
Yeah. So schizotaxia involves potential
synaptic slippage. What doesthat mean? Basically,
like some things aren't really firing
correctly in the brain. Right.Yeah. Yeah. And then
(01:15:09):
later that cognitive slippage might be
seen in like loose thinking.So loose thinking
or loose associations islike thoughts that
are disconnected and fragmentedor not really
connected well. So the personalitythen can
showcase that on a neuro level,things aren't
really firing correctly in the brain.
(01:15:32):
Okay. Okay. So we started with genetic
schizogenes. They are impacted bythe environment and social
learning stuff. And then we end up with a
schizotaxic brain that is proneto like slipping
and misfiring, resulting in more severe
expressions of like the schizophenomena.Yeah. Yeah. That's
(01:15:54):
right. Yes. So then the schizotaxic brain
interacts with what Meehlcalled stressors.
And one of my favorite phrases,
polygenetic potentiators, right?So these polygenetic
potentiators then lead to the personality organizationof schizotypy. Okay. So what
(01:16:16):
are these polygenetic potentiators? They arestressors. Like it can be mild stress
all the way up to severe trauma. That's
also a range, right? Polygenetic potentiators
also include factors likeintroversion, how
anxiety prone someone is,anhedonia or lack
(01:16:37):
of positive emotions andalso aggression. So
high introversion, high anxiety,high anhedonia
and low aggression are morelikely to result
in schizophrenia. Interesting.Yeah. So much.
Okay. Also polygenetic potentiators is
really fun. Okay. Meehl arguesthat all individuals
(01:17:01):
who start with schizogenes can't escape
the development of a schizotypicpersonality
organization. So the schizotypicpersonality
organization is at higher riskfor the development
of schizophrenia or schizophrenia related
disorders. Yes. And so manythings can influence
(01:17:21):
those genes and therefore impact the
trajectory of schizophrenia expression,but there's
no escaping the schizotypic personality
organization, which is really fascinating.Right. Oh, absolutely.
And then this actually leads us to
something meal called the endophenotypes,which are
(01:17:43):
things that can developdue to schizotypy,
but like they're not necessarilyobservable.
Yes. Okay. So let's break down this word
endophenotype. So endo meaningwithin or inner
pheno meaning appear, typemeaning categorical.
So what do we have here withan endophenotype?
(01:18:04):
It is the type within whichschizotypy appears.
Okay. So this can include thingslike sustained
attention deficits, eye tracking problems
or dysfunction, working memoryimpairments,
motor function impairments, which I might
argue is proprioceptive. Likewe were talking
about where is my body inspace? Yeah. And
(01:18:27):
then thought disorder, which again points
us back to that cognitive slippage, like
something's not fully firing in thebrain. Are we in reality?
Yeah. Right. And so I think it's possible
that this is where schizoidpersonality disorder
might veer off staying unobservablein the
psychosis. So the psychosisrisk perhaps is
(01:18:51):
dealt with using like withdraw into fantasy
instead of outward symptoms.So there might
only be like those internalthings going on,
which is why, as we said inthe last episode,
I think this might also be why schizoids canfeel like they're going mad or crazy.
Yes. Yes. At the same time,researchers are still
(01:19:11):
arguing about whether or notschizoid is part of
schizotypy. So we actually don't know.
However, Doc Fish and I thinkthat it is part of it,
but researchers in general are confused.Surprise. Anyway, yeah, for real.
Getting back to Meeh's model,everything that
we just discussed is not observable.So we can't
(01:19:33):
easily see somebody's DNA or neurological
hardwiring. We weren't necessarilyprivy to somebody's social
learning influences, stressors,any traits.
So the unobservable partsare the latent level
of schizotypy, but then we come up to whatMeehl called the plane of observation.
(01:19:55):
Okay. So the plane of observationis kind of a
line in the sand where theunobservable becomes
observable. So on one side,you have the latent
under the surface stuff. Andthen on the other
side of the line is the manifest,observable level
of schizotypy. The observablelevel contains all
(01:20:18):
the same latent stuff, butis now crossing over
that line into the observablestuff that people
can see. And so we know thatschizotypes can
present in different ways.So one presentation
is schizophrenia, right?It's the psychotic
presentation. Another presentationincludes
schizophrenia related psychosis,which could be
(01:20:39):
any psychotic disorder on theschizophrenia spectrum,
like schizophreniform, delusionaldisorder. It
includes some more short termdisorders that can
eventually disintegrate intoschizophrenia.
Ooh, yeah. Then we also haveschizotypic disorders
and specifically the Oxford Textbook of
(01:21:01):
Psychopathology notes thatthese are schizotypal
and paranoid personality disorders. So
interesting. And again, if thisis all a bit confusing,
we do have charts and graphsand visuals that
we add to our blogs, which I'lllink. If you're a
visual learner, this stuffis really complex
neuro psych stuff, but it'sso interesting. And
(01:21:23):
it was way too interesting not to share. Okay,Doc Bok, but what does schizotypal
actually look like in somebody?Yeah, that's a
tricky question. This is ahard one to diagnose
because it can look likemultiple different
things, but let's look at howschizotypal manifests
(01:21:45):
in that observable level.Or in other words,
like what does a schizotypicpersonality or even a
schizophrenic personalitylook like? So let's
remember the four fundamentalsigns and symptoms
of schizotypy that we highlighted at the
beginning. So the first is thatcognitive slippage or that
mild associative looseningwhere the thoughts
(01:22:07):
start becoming disconnected.And in talking with
the person, you can start to see like
something's not quite firing right.They're loose thoughts.
They're associating thingsthat are really not
connected or maybe looselyconnected. It's not
your normal communication.And then the second
one is social fears that keepthem fairly isolated.
(01:22:30):
We'll get to that in a littlebit where that
comes from with sense of self.But then we have the
third one and that's anhedonia or lack of
pleasure. Like they're not experiencingjoy or those
positive emotions. And thenthe fourth one is
ambivalence or conflicting thoughtsand feelings.
Like they're kind of on theline with everything.
Is it yes, no, I don't know.Maybe this, maybe that
(01:22:53):
kind of maybe wishy washyor flighty. So then
let's start with the outside.So physically,
a schizotypal schizotypic may wear like
ill-fitting clothes or havean odd style of dress.
Their appearance may be unkempt and
there's actually a lot of researchand cases that
highlight a low weight or emaciated
(01:23:15):
appearance. Yeah, it's definitelyodd. It's like it's not
artistic or fashionable. It'slike, I just want
to highlight it's not theirown artistic flair.
It's bizarre and perhaps likenot of the times.
Like you said, maybe they'redisheveled. Maybe
they're wearing like ill-fittedclothing. It
just, it doesn't fit. It's toosmall or it's just odd.
(01:23:38):
Like it's not artsy and creative.It's just
odd. And then we mentionedthis previously too,
as the early theorists found, but their
perception of their physical bodycan also be off like,
like the limbs, like misjudginglinks of your
appendages, arms, legs, liketheir body isn't
solely in their control. AmI in my body? Am I
(01:24:01):
out of it? Is this my hand? Arethese my appendages?
Like where am I in this room?That reminds me. I
also read that they can engagein odd movements
to remind themselves thatthey're like alive.
So they might twist themselvesup like a pretzel,
maybe gaining deep pressureinput to ground
themselves in the awarenessthat they're actually
(01:24:23):
like a human, not like athing. That is so
interesting having to getthat external input
that I am real. I exist.Wow. Moving up to
cognitively. So their realitytesting is towing
that line of psychosis at theschizotypal level.
(01:24:44):
So they might have interestin or even fixation
with the paranormal extraterrestrialstuff
or like fringe reality stuff,which involves
misattributions or believingbenign events are
personal to me, which of coursethen can increase
(01:25:04):
paranoia. Exactly. And theymight feel like
they maybe had a glimpse intothe future. So Millon
2004 highlighted a case where there was a
belief that the patient couldoccasionally,
"see the future in a visual form. He also
claims that he can sometimessee what's going on in
other places and what mighthappen if he were
(01:25:26):
to go there." Isn't that interesting?Yeah, we're
really flirting with the psychosisline on that
one. Yeah. And also these typescan have frequent
feelings of deja vu, right?Or the sense of
like, I've been there before,which dovetails nicely
into what you just said, Doc Fish,right? Like,
(01:25:48):
am I in the future? Am I inthe past? Am I here?
Have I been here before? Sothese misperceptions
of time and space and body arevery, very common.
Yeah. And then also they have potential
difficulties with perception of boththe self and with others.
Like they may not recognizefaces or perhaps
(01:26:09):
even see others as distorted.Now, other cognitive
pieces include cognitiveslippage, decreased
attention under or overactivesenses and impaired
eye tracking and eye contact. Then
emotionally, they have difficultywith expressing feelings
and difficulty picking upon others emotions.
(01:26:31):
So their expressions may berestricted or even
inappropriate. Like for example,they might
smile when telling a sad story.Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
And they also tend to experience higher
anxiety and neuroticism or likethat nervous energy.
So some researchers believe that they do
not experience strong emotionsother than that
(01:26:54):
anxiety and fear. Now they canalso have paranoid
ideation. So like, are youout to get me? So for
example, if they're arrested,they maybe had a
thought for a while that somebodywanted to set
them up or they kept looking at me. So I
know that they were talkingabout me. Yeah. And
schizotypals aren't typicallydangerous either. I
(01:27:15):
want to say that. So if they'regetting arrested,
maybe it was for like speedingor something. I
think I think they often interactwith the police
due to odd behaviors, notdangerous behaviors,
if that makes sense. Yes,yes, it does. Yeah.
Or like maybe like pettytheft or something
or because it's a misunderstanding.It's not
(01:27:36):
malicious. Right. They'renot trying to harm
other individuals. There's there'sanother personality
type that can look a little similar. And
that's that's the paranoid mostlikely among others.
There could be others too.But as far as like
in that borderline in betweenplace, there can be
some overlap. But yeah, soanyway, I think we
(01:27:57):
need to talk about self concepttoo, because that's a
really big piece of this type as well. So
they have really poor self awarenessand low self
esteem, negative view of self and
schizotypals in particular havevery deep insecurities,
which leads to feeling like a failure and
(01:28:19):
makes them also sensitive tocriticism. And it's
interesting because this canactually manifest in
youth as well. I also thinkit's interesting that
Millon noted their self conceptmight be so poor
that it seems like they haveabandoned the self.
Isn't that interesting? Thisagain, it's the
(01:28:41):
theme of dissociation, likedissociation from the
physical body and misperceptionsof the body.
It's it's dissociative. I'veabandoned the self.
I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Sosocially, they are
frightened of others resultingin avoiding
socialization altogether. And they really
(01:29:02):
are typically odd loners, likesometimes having
no relationships outside ofrelatives. However,
they might have a person ormaybe a couple people
that they talk to about like highly esoterictopics or like the fringe stuff. Yeah.
Now, this actually hit mereally intensely.
(01:29:23):
There's a case in the Oxford Textbookof Psychopathology,
and they noted that the experienceof social
interaction is similar tothe feeling one has
when one's knuckles accidentally scrape
across a carrot grater. Oh, my.It's painful. Whoa.
Whoa. And unexpected. Like,wow. Like socializing
(01:29:46):
is painful. Yeah. And it's likea retreat. Like if
I accidentally scrape my knuckleon the cheese
grater or carrot grater, whatever,it's like,
ah, pull back, pull back.It's uncomfortable.
Yeah. That is so interesting.So I can also see
how this would lead to likethe odd communication
(01:30:06):
or how those things could potentiallygo together,
like answering questions, maybe in an
inappropriate amount of time,having long pauses,
maybe followed by like ramblingtangential speech
or maybe. And I've actuallyseen this clinically,
like giving short one wordanswers or just like
overall bizarre speech. Yeah.Or muttering under
(01:30:30):
their breath to themselves.Yeah. Sure. And they
may underachieve at schoolor the workplace due
to lack of motivation andjust simply finding
socialization uncomfortable.That makes so much
sense. Yeah. Okay. To recap real quick,
schizotypals have been linked toschizophrenia genetically and
clinically researchers andshrinks noted a type
(01:30:53):
of pre psychotic temperamentthat was schizophrenia
like, but never reached fullblown psychosis.
Right. Yes. And schizotypyis the common thread
that runs through both schizotypal and
schizophrenia. And we actually thinkschizoid too, just at the
nonpsychotic end, but theschizotypy serves as
(01:31:17):
kind of the genetic liabilityfor these conditions.
So while we don't know whatcauses someone to
become fully psychotic versuslike living in this
borderline or like schizotypal area,
researchers suggest that it is acomplex interplay of the
schizogene or genes, socialreinforcement,
(01:31:38):
environment, stress, trauma,blah, blah, blah,
yada, yada, yada, all thethings, right? So we
hope that you will join us aswe continue on this
series and look further into the DSM
schizotypal as well as subtypes.There's always so much to
unpack with the personalitytypologies and
(01:31:59):
disorders. So I do hope thatyou'll join us.
But on that note, that isa wrap. So thank
you for joining us todayon this episode of
the personality couch. Makesure to check out
our blogs that coincide withthese episodes at
www.personalitycouch.com.And as always, don't
forget to give us a thumbsup or rate and review
(01:32:21):
us on your favorite podcastapp. And on YouTube,
hit that bell so you don'tmiss a single episode
in our schizotypal series.Be well, be kind, and
we'll see you next time on thepersonality couch.
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice. I'm yourhost, Doc Bok,
and I'm here with my co-host,Doc Fish. We
are both licensed clinicalpsychologists and
private practice. And todaywe are continuing
our schizotyal personality series. In
(01:00:21):
this episode, we unpack schizotyal'sgenetic
link to schizophrenia, aswell as how they
appear socially and in clinical settings.
We also continue to explorethe fascinating
topic of schizotypy that encompassesthe schizoid,
schizotyal, and schizophreniacontinuum of
disorders. I am so excitedabout this episode.
(01:00:45):
Let's dive in. We'll start with a little bitof history. So there used to be like a
schizophrenia-like personalitythat came on
the map in the early yearsof psychoanalysis.
And there were a lot of namesfor it at the
time before it became schizotyal.So these
names included like borderlineschizophrenia,
ambulatory schizophrenia, theas-if personality,
(01:01:09):
schizoid character, amongother things. So
theorists used a number ofways to study it,
but we can mostly condense it down to two
lines of thought, geneticstudies and clinical
experience or research. Right. Yes. Andlet's remember this was way
before schizotyal personality disorder
(01:01:30):
showed up in the DSM in 1980.But let's take a peek
at that genetic line ofresearch. Okay. So
this research line includedtheorists like
Kraepelin, Bleuler, Kretschmer,Kalman, and
Slater who looked mostlyat genetics. They
didn't consider the how or why this
(01:01:51):
personality developed. They justlooked at the genes.
Specifically, these researchers looked at
biological relatives of schizophrenicpatients
who had nonpsychotic but aberrant odd
personality states. So these nonpsychoticpersonalities
were termed latent schizophrenia,schizoid
(01:02:13):
personality or schizoid character,and schizoform
abnormalities. These characterswere described
as eccentric and odd, irritableand unreasonable,
socially isolated, having analoof or a more
cold demeanor and suspicious.And these odd
(01:02:33):
personalities were found in the geneticline of those with schizophrenia.
So theorist, Rado actuallysaid that certain
personalities live at risk of developingschizophrenia.
He used the word schizotyals to describe thesepersonalities and they were said to
be like a certain schizotype.And one might
(01:02:55):
argue this is when schizotypaland schizotype
came on the map. Thanks to Rado. He also
noted that the two core defectspresent in the
schizotype's personality were a diminishedcapacity for pleasure. So what he called
like a pleasure deficiencythat's driven by
genetics. And then the secondone is problems
(01:03:15):
understanding like theirbody and space and
potential body awareness,or like body image
distortions. So this involves the
proprioceptive system. So being clumsy,maybe having an odd
way of walking or moving,maybe feeling like
one arm is longer than theother. Now note,
this is not psychosis, butit's distortions
(01:03:37):
involving the body. So forexample, like not
genuinely believing thatthere's a chip in
your arm, which would bepsychosis, but just
feeling like one arm is too long.
Yes, yes. That's an importantdistinction.
It's not full blown psychosis,but it is like
odd experiences of the body in space or
(01:03:59):
misperceptions of the body, almostlike a detachment from
the body, which is really a type of
dissociation or maybe like whosebody is this and why does
it feel different? It's a disconnect, a
split, but from the body andnot necessarily from
reality.
Exactly. And it's really tricky to
(01:04:21):
understand, but it's very muchnot image based. So it's
going to be a disconnect from the body
versus like a fixation on thebody or body part as
in body dysmorphia.
Yes, yes, right on. Yeah. Soin body dysmorphia,
it's a fixation on a perceivedflaw in appearance
(01:04:42):
leading to compulsive behaviorsto change it.
Here, Rado is describingthe schizotypal's
disconnect and dissociationfrom their own
body in space, not fully inanother universe,
like psychosis, but like not fullyin their own body at times.
And to be clear, this is onlyone part of the
(01:05:03):
schizotypal personality thatRado was describing.
But now we move away from like only
genetics and let's look at theclinical researchers
of the schizotypal character.
Yes. All right. So the clinical research
theorists were Zilboorg, Deutsch,Hoch, Polatin, and
(01:05:24):
Meehl. So these were some of the top
researchers who drew from clinicalexperience to find
themes in certain personalities. So they
identified patients with schizophrenialike features.
And we've already mentionedsome of these names
already. So things like borderlineschizophrenia,
ambulatory schizophrenia, the as if
(01:05:45):
personality, pseudo neurotic schizophrenia,and schizotypal
personality. These schizotypicpersonality
is were most commonly described as having
some deficits and thinkingpatterns or just
being cognitively like offalong with lack
of deep interpersonal relationships.
(01:06:07):
And then another researcher, Kety and
colleagues found some commonalitiesamong those with
what was called borderlineschizophrenia. So
those commonalities includedstrange thinking
resulting in odd communication,micropsychosis, such
as cognitive disorganizationand depersonalization.
(01:06:27):
Which this is interesting because we just talkedabout Rado's observations of being
disconnected from the body.
Which is depersonalization.
Yeah.
And number three is shallow social
relationships and sexual experiences.And then the last
one is neurosis or nervous energy.
Right. Yes, yes. So Meehl was the most
(01:06:51):
influential researcher here, mostlyin the 1960s. And
his work is still being used in others
research, which is pretty cool.But Doc Fish, I'm hoping
you can tell me what exactly Meehlcontributed to this field.
Absolutely. So he notedfour common traits
in these schizophrenia likepatients. So one,
(01:07:12):
cognitive slippage or likebeing on the verge of
psychosis, such as like makingloose associations
and thoughts. Number two, seeing the self
as unlovable and prone torejection, leading
to increased social anxiety.Number three,
ambivalence. So contradictoryattitudes or
emotions. And then numberfour, anhedonia,
(01:07:34):
which is a decreased capacityfor pleasure.
Now these four things wouldlead to either
an odd or eccentric character or even like
full blown schizophrenia.But we'll get more
into his super cool theoryhere in a little
bit.
Yes, yes, we will. Yep. So interestingly, Millon,our favorite personality theorist,
(01:07:56):
took both the genetic and theclinical lines of
thought into his conceptualizationof schizotypal
individuals as what he calledstructurally
defective personalities ora personality that
is backsliding, disintegrating and
straddling the line of realityand non reality. Okay.
(01:08:17):
So what psychodynamic theorypreviously called
borderline levels of personalityorganization,
Millon like took that sameconcept and called
it structurally defective.Yes, yes, I think
so. Uh huh. So if that interestsyou, we do
have another episode inthe works on these
(01:08:38):
structurally defective personality types.
So make sure you subscribeso you don't miss
that one. All right. But what about
schizotypal in the DSM? Yes. Soschizotypal as a term
we know today came about from diluting
schizoid and its connections toschizophrenia and the
(01:08:58):
non psychotic schizophrenia like disorder
that existed with great frequencyamong relatives
with schizophrenia.
Ooh. So what you're saying is we took our
crappy definition of schizoidand its possible
connection to schizophrenia and defined
schizotypal as the gray in between.So the borderland
(01:09:20):
or the borderline area of functioning.
Exactly. Ah ha. Okay. So thenrelatedly, the concept
of borderline was also gainingtraction in
the 1960s and 1970s. Andthis popular word
took on a number of meanings. So Kety
said that borderline includesmarginal forms of
(01:09:44):
schizophrenia.
Okay. And then it's also included what we
just referenced. So characterorganization,
which came from Kernberg. So basically
it's like what state a personalityis in like,
is it neurotic, psychotic or somewhere in
the borderline middle? Borderlinewas also
a term used to describe an unstable
(01:10:05):
personality disorder, which isthe borderline we know
now today in the DSM makes it confusing.
Always, always, becausewe like to use the
same word for everything in this field. I
think we've talked about that in every
series thus far, we use thesame word to describe
different concepts. So here we had to
(01:10:27):
clarify what borderlines wewere talking about as
they related to the schizoid,schizotypal,
schizophrenia continuum,and also which ones
didn't belong in that category at all. So
then this pushed schizotypalas a personality
disorder into existenceand then made it a
(01:10:47):
thing in the DSM III. So schizotypal in
the DSM is according to Kernberg, the
"intermingling of the most severeschizoid personalities
and the tail end of schizophrenia."
Yes, highlighting that it's a continuum. Soschizoid to schizophrenia continuum and
(01:11:08):
schizotypals are in thatmiddle place on the
continuum. Like they're notquite psychotic,
but maybe close.
Yeah, borderline.
But then some said to just take out the
schizotypal stuff and put it withthe schizophrenia stuff.
But eventually it landed inCluster A personality
disorder category alongsideschizoid and paranoid.
(01:11:30):
But guess what? If you look at the
schizophrenia spectrum disordersin the DSM, like where
schizophrenia is, you findthis little tiny
paragraph about schizotypalpersonality disorder
there as well.
Interesting.
Both places.
Yeah. Okay. Well, I have a fun fact for
you, Doc Fish. So with theDSM III, when the
(01:11:53):
schizotypal personality disordercame on the
map, we actually saw a decreasein the diagnosis
of schizophrenia and an increase in
schizophrenia related personalitydisorders. So perhaps
delineating between pre-psychotic
personalities and full out schizophreniawas helpful.
(01:12:14):
Perhaps maybe.
But let's get into the conceptof schizotypy
here, because I think thisis one of the most
helpful things to understandthis schizoid,
schizotypal, schizophreniaspectrum. So Doc
Fish, let's look at Meehl's model ofschizotypal psychopathology.
(01:12:35):
Okay. So we are going to simplify this
because it's super complex. Imean, considering it's
human development. So thefirst part of human
development involves geneticsand DNA, which
eventually influences personality.So there is
a DNA based genetic liabilityfor schizophrenia,
(01:12:56):
originally called the schizogene.
Yes. But now we know it'smore than just one
gene, of course. So technicallyit's schizogenes.
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Now this also involves
epigenetic factors, which wewon't dive into because
it's more biology based. But essentially,
epigenetic factors includethings that interact
(01:13:18):
with genetics and alter the expressionof the schizogenes.
So the genes don't change, right? But for
some people, the schizogenewill express itself
overtly. And then for some people, it
won't because of these likeenvironmental or as
you're saying, epigenetic factors. Yeah.
(01:13:39):
Exactly. And similarly, social learning
influences impact genetic andgenetic expression. So
social learning influences includethings that we
observe, imitate and model basedon reinforcement.
So things like maybe havinga positive role
model, positive attachments, justearly relationships,
(01:13:59):
healthy peer interactions, et cetera. So
having more positive social learninginfluences may
decrease the likelihood of developing
schizophrenia or psychosis whilehaving negative social
learning influences may increasethat risk.
Mm-hmm. Right. So depending on the
environment and life experiences,trauma, caregivers,
(01:14:22):
upbringing, resources, etcetera, et cetera,
the schizogene may or maynot fully express
itself. Okay. But then wealso have to look at
a super fascinating conceptcalled schizotaxia
in the brain. Okay. So the schizogene or
schizogenes influence the developmentof the central nervous
(01:14:46):
system, including the brain.And this results in
an impaired neural hardwiringcalled schizotaxia.
Yeah. So schizotaxia involves potential
synaptic slippage. What doesthat mean? Basically,
like some things aren't really firing
correctly in the brain. Right.Yeah. Yeah. And then
(01:15:09):
later that cognitive slippage might be
seen in like loose thinking.So loose thinking
or loose associations islike thoughts that
are disconnected and fragmentedor not really
connected well. So the personalitythen can
showcase that on a neuro level,things aren't
really firing correctly in the brain.
(01:15:32):
Okay. Okay. So we started with genetic
schizogenes. They are impacted bythe environment and social
learning stuff. And then we end up with a
schizotaxic brain that is proneto like slipping
and misfiring, resulting in more severe
expressions of like the schizophenomena.Yeah. Yeah. That's
(01:15:54):
right. Yes. So then the schizotaxic brain
interacts with what Meehlcalled stressors.
And one of my favorite phrases,
polygenetic potentiators, right?So these polygenetic
potentiators then lead to the personality organizationof schizotypy. Okay. So what
(01:16:16):
are these polygenetic potentiators? They arestressors. Like it can be mild stress
all the way up to severe trauma. That's
also a range, right? Polygenetic potentiators
also include factors likeintroversion, how
anxiety prone someone is,anhedonia or lack
(01:16:37):
of positive emotions andalso aggression. So
high introversion, high anxiety,high anhedonia
and low aggression are morelikely to result
in schizophrenia. Interesting.Yeah. So much.
Okay. Also polygenetic potentiators is
really fun. Okay. Meehl arguesthat all individuals
(01:17:01):
who start with schizogenes can't escape
the development of a schizotypicpersonality
organization. So the schizotypicpersonality
organization is at higher riskfor the development
of schizophrenia or schizophrenia related
disorders. Yes. And so manythings can influence
(01:17:21):
those genes and therefore impact the
trajectory of schizophrenia expression,but there's
no escaping the schizotypic personality
organization, which is really fascinating.Right. Oh, absolutely.
And then this actually leads us to
something meal called the endophenotypes,which are
(01:17:43):
things that can developdue to schizotypy,
but like they're not necessarilyobservable.
Yes. Okay. So let's break down this word
endophenotype. So endo meaningwithin or inner
pheno meaning appear, typemeaning categorical.
So what do we have here withan endophenotype?
(01:18:04):
It is the type within whichschizotypy appears.
Okay. So this can include thingslike sustained
attention deficits, eye tracking problems
or dysfunction, working memoryimpairments,
motor function impairments, which I might
argue is proprioceptive. Likewe were talking
about where is my body inspace? Yeah. And
(01:18:27):
then thought disorder, which again points
us back to that cognitive slippage, like
something's not fully firing in thebrain. Are we in reality?
Yeah. Right. And so I think it's possible
that this is where schizoidpersonality disorder
might veer off staying unobservablein the
psychosis. So the psychosisrisk perhaps is
(01:18:51):
dealt with using like withdraw into fantasy
instead of outward symptoms.So there might
only be like those internalthings going on,
which is why, as we said inthe last episode,
I think this might also be why schizoids canfeel like they're going mad or crazy.
Yes. Yes. At the same time,researchers are still
(01:19:11):
arguing about whether or notschizoid is part of
schizotypy. So we actually don't know.
However, Doc Fish and I thinkthat it is part of it,
but researchers in general are confused.Surprise. Anyway, yeah, for real.
Getting back to Meeh's model,everything that
we just discussed is not observable.So we can't
(01:19:33):
easily see somebody's DNA or neurological
hardwiring. We weren't necessarilyprivy to somebody's social
learning influences, stressors,any traits.
So the unobservable partsare the latent level
of schizotypy, but then we come up to whatMeehl called the plane of observation.
(01:19:55):
Okay. So the plane of observationis kind of a
line in the sand where theunobservable becomes
observable. So on one side,you have the latent
under the surface stuff. Andthen on the other
side of the line is the manifest,observable level
of schizotypy. The observablelevel contains all
(01:20:18):
the same latent stuff, butis now crossing over
that line into the observablestuff that people
can see. And so we know thatschizotypes can
present in different ways.So one presentation
is schizophrenia, right?It's the psychotic
presentation. Another presentationincludes
schizophrenia related psychosis,which could be
(01:20:39):
any psychotic disorder on theschizophrenia spectrum,
like schizophreniform, delusionaldisorder. It
includes some more short termdisorders that can
eventually disintegrate intoschizophrenia.
Ooh, yeah. Then we also haveschizotypic disorders
and specifically the Oxford Textbook of
(01:21:01):
Psychopathology notes thatthese are schizotypal
and paranoid personality disorders. So
interesting. And again, if thisis all a bit confusing,
we do have charts and graphsand visuals that
we add to our blogs, which I'lllink. If you're a
visual learner, this stuffis really complex
neuro psych stuff, but it'sso interesting. And
(01:21:23):
it was way too interesting not to share. Okay,Doc Bok, but what does schizotypal
actually look like in somebody?Yeah, that's a
tricky question. This is ahard one to diagnose
because it can look likemultiple different
things, but let's look at howschizotypal manifests
(01:21:45):
in that observable level.Or in other words,
like what does a schizotypicpersonality or even a
schizophrenic personalitylook like? So let's
remember the four fundamentalsigns and symptoms
of schizotypy that we highlighted at the
beginning. So the first is thatcognitive slippage or that
mild associative looseningwhere the thoughts
(01:22:07):
start becoming disconnected.And in talking with
the person, you can start to see like
something's not quite firing right.They're loose thoughts.
They're associating thingsthat are really not
connected or maybe looselyconnected. It's not
your normal communication.And then the second
one is social fears that keepthem fairly isolated.
(01:22:30):
We'll get to that in a littlebit where that
comes from with sense of self.But then we have the
third one and that's anhedonia or lack of
pleasure. Like they're not experiencingjoy or those
positive emotions. And thenthe fourth one is
ambivalence or conflicting thoughtsand feelings.
Like they're kind of on theline with everything.
Is it yes, no, I don't know.Maybe this, maybe that
(01:22:53):
kind of maybe wishy washyor flighty. So then
let's start with the outside.So physically,
a schizotypal schizotypic may wear like
ill-fitting clothes or havean odd style of dress.
Their appearance may be unkempt and
there's actually a lot of researchand cases that
highlight a low weight or emaciated
(01:23:15):
appearance. Yeah, it's definitelyodd. It's like it's not
artistic or fashionable. It'slike, I just want
to highlight it's not theirown artistic flair.
It's bizarre and perhaps likenot of the times.
Like you said, maybe they'redisheveled. Maybe
they're wearing like ill-fittedclothing. It
just, it doesn't fit. It's toosmall or it's just odd.
(01:23:38):
Like it's not artsy and creative.It's just
odd. And then we mentionedthis previously too,
as the early theorists found, but their
perception of their physical bodycan also be off like,
like the limbs, like misjudginglinks of your
appendages, arms, legs, liketheir body isn't
solely in their control. AmI in my body? Am I
(01:24:01):
out of it? Is this my hand? Arethese my appendages?
Like where am I in this room?That reminds me. I
also read that they can engagein odd movements
to remind themselves thatthey're like alive.
So they might twist themselvesup like a pretzel,
maybe gaining deep pressureinput to ground
themselves in the awarenessthat they're actually
(01:24:23):
like a human, not like athing. That is so
interesting having to getthat external input
that I am real. I exist.Wow. Moving up to
cognitively. So their realitytesting is towing
that line of psychosis at theschizotypal level.
(01:24:44):
So they might have interestin or even fixation
with the paranormal extraterrestrialstuff
or like fringe reality stuff,which involves
misattributions or believingbenign events are
personal to me, which of coursethen can increase
(01:25:04):
paranoia. Exactly. And theymight feel like
they maybe had a glimpse intothe future. So Millon
2004 highlighted a case where there was a
belief that the patient couldoccasionally,
"see the future in a visual form. He also
claims that he can sometimessee what's going on in
other places and what mighthappen if he were
(01:25:26):
to go there." Isn't that interesting?Yeah, we're
really flirting with the psychosisline on that
one. Yeah. And also these typescan have frequent
feelings of deja vu, right?Or the sense of
like, I've been there before,which dovetails nicely
into what you just said, Doc Fish,right? Like,
(01:25:48):
am I in the future? Am I inthe past? Am I here?
Have I been here before? Sothese misperceptions
of time and space and body arevery, very common.
Yeah. And then also they have potential
difficulties with perception of boththe self and with others.
Like they may not recognizefaces or perhaps
(01:26:09):
even see others as distorted.Now, other cognitive
pieces include cognitiveslippage, decreased
attention under or overactivesenses and impaired
eye tracking and eye contact. Then
emotionally, they have difficultywith expressing feelings
and difficulty picking upon others emotions.
(01:26:31):
So their expressions may berestricted or even
inappropriate. Like for example,they might
smile when telling a sad story.Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
And they also tend to experience higher
anxiety and neuroticism or likethat nervous energy.
So some researchers believe that they do
not experience strong emotionsother than that
(01:26:54):
anxiety and fear. Now they canalso have paranoid
ideation. So like, are youout to get me? So for
example, if they're arrested,they maybe had a
thought for a while that somebodywanted to set
them up or they kept looking at me. So I
know that they were talkingabout me. Yeah. And
schizotypals aren't typicallydangerous either. I
(01:27:15):
want to say that. So if they'regetting arrested,
maybe it was for like speedingor something. I
think I think they often interactwith the police
due to odd behaviors, notdangerous behaviors,
if that makes sense. Yes,yes, it does. Yeah.
Or like maybe like pettytheft or something
or because it's a misunderstanding.It's not
(01:27:36):
malicious. Right. They'renot trying to harm
other individuals. There's there'sanother personality
type that can look a little similar. And
that's that's the paranoid mostlikely among others.
There could be others too.But as far as like
in that borderline in betweenplace, there can be
some overlap. But yeah, soanyway, I think we
(01:27:57):
need to talk about self concepttoo, because that's a
really big piece of this type as well. So
they have really poor self awarenessand low self
esteem, negative view of self and
schizotypals in particular havevery deep insecurities,
which leads to feeling like a failure and
(01:28:19):
makes them also sensitive tocriticism. And it's
interesting because this canactually manifest in
youth as well. I also thinkit's interesting that
Millon noted their self conceptmight be so poor
that it seems like they haveabandoned the self.
Isn't that interesting? Thisagain, it's the
(01:28:41):
theme of dissociation, likedissociation from the
physical body and misperceptionsof the body.
It's it's dissociative. I'veabandoned the self.
I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Sosocially, they are
frightened of others resultingin avoiding
socialization altogether. And they really
(01:29:02):
are typically odd loners, likesometimes having
no relationships outside ofrelatives. However,
they might have a person ormaybe a couple people
that they talk to about like highly esoterictopics or like the fringe stuff. Yeah.
Now, this actually hit mereally intensely.
(01:29:23):
There's a case in the Oxford Textbookof Psychopathology,
and they noted that the experienceof social
interaction is similar tothe feeling one has
when one's knuckles accidentally scrape
across a carrot grater. Oh, my.It's painful. Whoa.
Whoa. And unexpected. Like,wow. Like socializing
(01:29:46):
is painful. Yeah. And it's likea retreat. Like if
I accidentally scrape my knuckleon the cheese
grater or carrot grater, whatever,it's like,
ah, pull back, pull back.It's uncomfortable.
Yeah. That is so interesting.So I can also see
how this would lead to likethe odd communication
(01:30:06):
or how those things could potentiallygo together,
like answering questions, maybe in an
inappropriate amount of time,having long pauses,
maybe followed by like ramblingtangential speech
or maybe. And I've actuallyseen this clinically,
like giving short one wordanswers or just like
overall bizarre speech. Yeah.Or muttering under
(01:30:30):
their breath to themselves.Yeah. Sure. And they
may underachieve at schoolor the workplace due
to lack of motivation andjust simply finding
socialization uncomfortable.That makes so much
sense. Yeah. Okay. To recap real quick,
schizotypals have been linked toschizophrenia genetically and
clinically researchers andshrinks noted a type
(01:30:53):
of pre psychotic temperamentthat was schizophrenia
like, but never reached fullblown psychosis.
Right. Yes. And schizotypyis the common thread
that runs through both schizotypal and
schizophrenia. And we actually thinkschizoid too, just at the
nonpsychotic end, but theschizotypy serves as
(01:31:17):
kind of the genetic liabilityfor these conditions.
So while we don't know whatcauses someone to
become fully psychotic versuslike living in this
borderline or like schizotypal area,
researchers suggest that it is acomplex interplay of the
schizogene or genes, socialreinforcement,
(01:31:38):
environment, stress, trauma,blah, blah, blah,
yada, yada, yada, all thethings, right? So we
hope that you will join us aswe continue on this
series and look further into the DSM
schizotypal as well as subtypes.There's always so much to
unpack with the personalitytypologies and
(01:31:59):
disorders. So I do hope thatyou'll join us.
But on that note, that isa wrap. So thank
you for joining us todayon this episode of
the personality couch. Makesure to check out
our blogs that coincide withthese episodes at
www.personalitycouch.com.And as always, don't
forget to give us a thumbsup or rate and review
(01:32:21):
us on your favorite podcastapp. And on YouTube,
hit that bell so you don'tmiss a single episode
in our schizotypal series.Be well, be kind, and
we'll see you next time on thepersonality couch.
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The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.