December 16, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of The Personality Couch Podcast, we (licensed clinical psychologists Doc Bok and Doc Fish) unpack the 6 subtypes of schizotypal personality disorder, according to Dr. Theodore Millon. We outline Millon’s take on “structurally defective structures” as being at risk of falling apart into psychosis at all levels of functioning, with the most severe levels of schizotypal deteriorating into schizophrenia. We then discuss the characteristics of mild, moderate, and severe subtypes, specifically: Disengaged Eccentrics, Apprehensive Eccentrics, the Insipid Schizotypal, the Timorous Schizotypal, the Immobile Schizophrenic, and the Disorganized Schizophrenic.
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Chapters 00:00 Intro & History of Schizotypal Subtypes 02:45 Theodore Millon’s Theory on Schizotypal Personality 07:00 The Mild Eccentric Level 08:21 Disengaged Eccentrics 09:39 Apprehensive Eccentrics 10:48 The Moderate Schizotypal Level 11:57 Insipid Schizotypal 18:17 Timorous Schizotypal 21:26 The Severe Schizophrenic Level 22:56 Immobile Schizophrenic 26:08 Disorganized Schizophrenic 29:05 Summary & Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice.
I'm your host, Doc Bok, and I'm herewith my co-host, Doc Fish.
We are both licensed clinicalpsychologists
and private practice, and todaywe are continuing
our series on schizotypal personality.
(00:21):
And in this episode, we are tacklingschizotypal subtypes.
Specifically, we will take a quick jaunt
through history and then unpackMillon's disengaged,
apprehensive, insipid, timorous, immobile,and disorganized schizotypal subtypes.
But don't worry, because we know that
(00:42):
Millon's expansive vocab alsomakes us scratch our
heads.
So we will explain what allthese mean in detail.
So let's hop to it.
Okay, so let's start witha quick reminder
of what schizotypal personalitydisorder is.
According to the DSM, therehas to be a pattern
of oddities, cognitive orsensory distortions,
(01:02):
and social deficits.
This includes things likeexcessive social
anxiety, social isolation and withdrawal,
among other odd behaviors.
Now, you can often tell you'reworking with a
schizotypal individual dueto their eccentric
thoughts, unusual sensory experiences,
suspiciousness, and reading intobenign events as having
(01:24):
personal significance, whichis ideas of reference.
Right, yeah, yeah.
So the oddities and slightdisconnect from
reality are evidence ofcognitive slippage
and put schizotypals in the pre-psychoticor even quasi-psychotic camp.
But importantly, they arenot fully psychotic.
(01:46):
Correct.
Now, as far as subtypes go,most of the history on
schizotypal is actually in regardto schizophrenia
and basically like how schizotypalisn't quite schizophrenia.
Yeah, so I think what you're saying is
there's not much in the researchon subtypes because
schizotypal or schizotypalas a standalone
disorder, not part of schizophrenia, is a
(02:08):
more recent development in the field of
psychology in the last maybelike 45 years or so.
Right.
The two that I did find were not really
interesting at all and they don'tmap nicely onto what
we know about schizotypalpersonality today.
Exactly, exactly.
And I think it's importantto note that all
(02:28):
of the schizophenomena occurson a continuum
of severity, which also fits in with how
Millon conceptualizes subtypesinto mild, moderate,
and severe.
Yes.
And with that, let's get into Millon's theoryon the schizotypal personality.
Yes.
(02:49):
Okay.
So schizotypal is what Millon considers a
defective structure, meaning onthe severity spectrum,
the personality architecture itself isat risk of further falling apart.
So while Millon uses severity levels of
mild, moderate, and severein his description of
(03:11):
all personality subtypesfor the defective
structures specifically, theseverity shifts.
So even at mild levels, defectivestructures
like schizotypal are proneto impairment more
quickly than other personalities.
But let's break this down justa little bit more.
Yes.
(03:32):
So for schizotypal at themild style level,
the personality structureis still intact,
but also more impaired and more at risk tofall apart into a more moderate level.
Now we also find Millon's work in this categoryto be the hardest to understand.
I'm not sure that he fullyunderstood it either.
(03:52):
And we kind of have a view that he didn't
really get schizoids, let aloneschizophenomena.
Exactly.
Well, I think our viewersand listeners agree
because we did put a pollout on YouTube and
it seems that our schizo-orientedlisteners
and viewers don't reallythink that he got
it either.
Even though he's our favorite personality
shrink of all time, with schizoidsand schizotypal
(04:16):
too, we think he kind of missedthe mark here.
But anyway, so that's mild level,
especially for the mildlevel, but for the
more moderate type level, according to
Millon's personality theory,this is where we start
seeing the schizotypal personalityfalling apart.
So it represents the DSM, schizotypalpathology,
(04:38):
whereas other personalitiesdon't have disordered
dynamics actually until the severe level,
the schizotypal and other defectivestructures,
the disorder is actually foundat the moderate level.
So we've shifted the scale.
Yes.
This is where in psychodynamic, we would calla structurally defective personality
(05:01):
organized at the borderline level or basicallyflirting with the line of psychosis.
So in the borderline organizationallevel,
schizotypals go around in circles,going nowhere
before they restart.
They have a capacity to regaintheir wits and
function in life, but thenthey have transient
periods of like bizarre behaviors, irrationalimpulses and delusional thoughts.
(05:26):
So basically reality is blurred and it'sat the disorder level of schizotypal.
This also reminds me of Kernberg who said
that schizotypal personalitydisorder in the
DSM is the "intermingling of the most
severe schizoid personalitiesand the tail end of
schizophrenia."
(05:46):
So this highlights that borderlinespace, right?
Or what Millon calls that moderatelevel of dysfunction.
But okay, now we move to thatsevere disorder level.
What we actually have here is a disintegratedstructure that represents psychosis.
So in the DSM, this level is more likely
(06:06):
to be found in the schizophreniaspectrum or
psychotic disorder section versus thepersonality disorder section.
So with all of that context, let's diveinto Millon's actual subtypes.
We have six to unpack, each increasingin pathology.
So again, Millon differentiatesthose by three
(06:27):
levels of severity that wejust talked about.
The first is the mild levelthat is closer
to normal functioning, andthat is what he
calls the eccentric personalities.
The second level is thatmiddle borderline
functioning that he callsactual schizotypal
personalities.
Surprise, that's where we would findschizotypal personality disorder.
(06:48):
Then the third, last level has completely
fallen apart out of realityand cannot function
well, and that is what he labels theschizophrenic personalities.
Yes, yes.
All right, but let's start withthe mild eccentric level.
So broadly, this mild levelpersonality has
(07:09):
maybe one or two DSM criteriaof schizotypal
personality disorder, but they don't manifestobvious pathological features.
They might seem unusual maybe in their
ordinary life, especially withthings like sleeping,
eating, and socializing thatjust maybe seems
countercultural, but the pathologyisn't super
(07:32):
obvious.
They're not too withdrawn or peculiar,but maybe just a little.
Oldham and Morris refer tothe idiosyncratic
style as "a different drummer nourished by
a unique belief system thatcontributes to
an unconventional or eveneccentric lifestyle."
Okay, so this is a very professional
(07:53):
zhuzhed-up way to say that hemarches to the beat of
his own drum, basically.
Yeah.
Okay, so there are these verymild characters
that we're talking about thatare just a little
odd, a little eccentric,but they are still
prone to falling apart, butthey're not going
to be dangerous.
So it's important to notehere that none of
(08:14):
the schizotypal subtypesare dangerous, but
all right, Doc Fish, I want you to tellme about this first subtype.
Yes, the first subtype is thedisengaged eccentric.
So that is a mild schizotypal style thatleans more into a schizoid flavor.
So their similarity to schizoid can beseen in their passive detachment.
(08:35):
So these individuals have difficultywith eye contact.
They're often emaciated because they're
detached from their bodies andthe fuel that it needs.
And so as such, the disengaged eccentric
doesn't eat consistently andmaybe doesn't even feel
hunger all the time.
Now also physically, they can come across asstrange and maybe dress in like an odd
(08:57):
fashion and have unkempt hair.
They may have unusual movementsor even an odd gait.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And then with that, theircommunication is
just a little off along with their facial
expressions.
They are withdrawn and uncomfortable aroundpeople, but they are observant of them.
They live on the periphery ofsociety, just watching.
(09:20):
They are actually disconnected from their
thoughts or only looselyconnected to them.
And our opinion is that this behavior is
consistent with a more severeschizoid presentation
with maybe a couple of schizotypalsymptoms.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, I would agree with that.
So next we have the apprehensiveeccentrics.
(09:42):
These are mild schizotypalstyles with avoidant
features and sometimes evendependent features.
Ooh.
Now what sets them apartis that they have
chronic underlying anxiety and are easily
overwhelmed.
So they are more actively detached out offear versus passively detached.
And they are very much aware of theiranxiety and powerlessness.
(10:06):
Very interesting.
Yes.
And they are insightful into their tensionand also the inability to handle it.
So they're aware of the conflict between
this desire and need for relationshipjuxtaposed
with their intolerance of people.
So then they feel trapped in this conflictsince they can't handle it.
(10:27):
So they choose to detach and actively avoidfearful things, especially socially.
So this is likely going to be an odd andeccentric avoidant-like character.
Then you can see the dependentflavors pop
up in their need for people,but then they
pull away in like a counter move.
Ooh, yeah.
(10:48):
But now let's take it tothe next level of
severity, which is where theDSM, schizotypal
personality disorder sits.
Yes.
Okay.
So at the moderate level, schizotypals
experience notable psychotic breaks,occasionally blurring
reality and non-reality, but they do notlive in the land of psychosis.
(11:13):
Their previous coping skills stop workingand they don't feel secure, resulting in
frantic efforts to keep themselvestogether.
But it can actually come off as like superbizarre because eccentricity doesn't fit
well into society.
There is a high likelihoodof the mild types
(11:33):
sinking into this level,this moderate level
with more fragmented, haphazard,estranged
traits that definitely don'tfit into cultural
norms and systems.
That downward spiral is gradual,but persistent.
Yes, unfortunately so.
(11:53):
They are definitely at more of a riskto fall apart into psychosis.
So in this schizotypal personalitydisorder
range, we have the insipidschizotypal, which
is a schizotypal personality core with
features of schizoid, though sometimesthere can also
be flavors of melancholic anddependent personalities.
(12:16):
So they really lean into this passive
detachment, similar to schizoids,being behaviorally idle,
socially unengaged, cognitivelybankrupt, meaning
there's nothing there, and justoverall unexcitable.
Cognitively, there's oftena tiredness, blocking
of thoughts, difficulty concentrating,sensitivity
(12:38):
and illusions with sensory stimuli,and obscure thoughts.
Then emotionally, there seemsto be deficits,
and they can appear like indifferent,passive
and unmotivated and insensitiveto others' feelings.
Behaviorally they are flat, showing littleexpression, maybe sloth-like.
There's a slowed down pace tolife, and socially
(13:00):
they can be oblivious to socialcues and other
people's emotions, which thenresults in facial
expressions that are not necessarilyappropriate
to the situation, as wellas speech that might
be mumbled, monotone, boring,or just showing
some type of cognitive slippage.
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
(13:21):
And then their communicationoften reflects
confusion, odd ideas, circumstantialthoughts,
and or just limited responses.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
So then other people viewthem as strange,
kind of like drifters inthe background or
on the fringes of society, and they come
across as navel-gazers, so basicallyjust absorbed
(13:42):
in their own thoughts, right?
Just oblivious to the outside world.
And then they experience such a split
between their mind and bodythat they fear losing
the self of not existing andof falling apart
into nothingness, being a robotwith no meaning
or purpose.
(14:03):
So they fill the emptiness with power and
significance from brief psychoticexperiences
involving introspective ideas.
So they grasp at anything, real or
fantasized, to convince themselvesthat they do exist.
Mm-hmm.
Whoa!
Yes, like that feels likea very key point.
(14:26):
Uh-huh.
So it's an internal passive psychosis,
like bizarre telepathic powersor specialness,
whereas timorous schizotypalsare more actively
bizarre in psychosis, but moreon that in a minute.
So that specialness in the fantasyreminds them of their relevance.
So fascinating, yeah.
(14:47):
So they can enter psychosisthrough multiple
access points, sometimes dueto a low threshold
for stimulation, which then resultsin overstimulation easily.
And then when overstimulated, it canforce them to act out briefly.
This energy output can actually leadto psychotic thought processes.
(15:10):
Mm-hmm.
So if we paint a picture ofthis, let's think
of maybe sticking your handinto a dog's cage.
They might snap at you or maybehide in the corner.
So an insipid schizotypalis going to snap at
you, but that energy expenditurecan actually
lead to, like, barking their heads off.
And quite literally, they can kind of losetheir mind and go into psychosis.
(15:33):
So, so interesting.
Yeah.
But then conversely, this is thesecond access point.
They can also just quicklydetach due to not
enough energy or grounding,allowing themselves
to cut off the external completely andthen fade into non-reality.
Right?So here's these two reactions,
(15:54):
overstimulation or slow fade, leadingto potential psychosis
in this insipid schizotypal.
Yes.
And then I also love this quote.
Okay.
So (16:05):
"The insipid schizotypal occasionally
experiences the awesome terror offeeling dead, non-existent,
petrified, detached from the world andinsensitive to their own feelings.
On rare occasions, thesepatients may become
terrified by a frighteningsense of nothingness,
oof, of passing through a barren,cold, lifeless existence.
(16:29):
The disaster of losing self,of becoming a
walking robot, a petrified object without
meaning or purpose may overwhelm these
patients, driving them into abizarre psychotic state."
Oh my goodness.
How interesting is that?
(16:50):
Wow.
Okay.
All right.
So I'm just trying to pull thisall together now.
So in psychosis, for example,they can enter
a world where their telepathicpowers maybe
make them heroic, right?
Giving them meaning and then soothingthat fear of becoming nothing.
(17:10):
So there's like a grandiosity in their
psychotic powers that keeps themfrom that nothingness
and from death.
Like whoa, that is so fascinating.
I think so too.
I do.
So they often feel as though they are
slipping into nothingness andthey will do anything
to confirm that they are alive and real.
(17:32):
So the odd quirks and eccentric behaviors
are essentially ways to"forestall the void
of oblivion and nothingness."
Wow.
Okay.
So to keep psychosis from happening,basically.
Yeah.
And you can see the neuro piecehere, the slippage, right?
So the mind is slipping inand out of reality
(17:55):
and it's like a CD or likea record that keeps
skipping, right?
The odd behaviors and mannerisms are the
skipping CD or record and it'sthe brain malfunctioning
trying to tell itself that it's alive.
I mean, whoa.
Yeah, exactly.
(18:15):
Okay.
So that's the insipid, butthen we have the
timorous schizotypal, whichis a schizotypal
personality core with featuresof avoidant personality.
So they are restrained, isolated,
apprehensive, suspicious, guarded,and shrinking back or
like turtling in.
(18:35):
And this is still at the schizotypalpersonality disorder level.
Now unlike insipid schizotypals who
reportedly lack sensitivity,timorous schizotypals'
apathy stems from attempting to push down
their hypersensitivity inorder to protect
themselves from the pain of life and
(18:56):
relationships, especially becausethey've learned there's
little hope of obtaining securityand affection.
Wow.
So yeah, they can even abandon their ownfeelings, desires, impulses, and needs.
So their isolation is twofold.
They can't find comfort inothers, but they
also find no refuge in themselves,only shame,
(19:17):
despair, and a devalued sense of self.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So they intentionally substitutefantasy for
rational thinking to avoidthe pain of realistic
thought.
But society doesn't accept that, so theyare often shamed back to reality.
(19:39):
They start to insulate themselves behind
armor, pushing down their sensitivitiesuntil there
is emptiness and unreality,similar to the
insipid schizotypal's fearof non-existence.
But instead of the insipid schizotypal's
passive detachment from fearof non-existence,
(20:00):
the timorous schizotypalseems to actively
fill the void with excitable,bizarre behaviors,
speech, and hallucinations, all in an
attempt to reassure themselvesthat they are indeed
alive, right?
Which doesn't work in the long term.
So then they turn to fantasy,superstition,
(20:23):
magic, telepathy, etc. "to obtaina pseudo-community
of fantasized persons and objects towhich they can safely relate."
Mm-hmm.
Woo!
Yes.
So basically, they're creatinga supportive
relational group in their fantasyto meet their
own attachment and emotional needs.
(20:45):
So fascinating.
Yeah, that's a pseudo-community.
Yes.Yes.
Kind of to sum this up, insipid is passivelydetached and ignoring their needs.
They're disconnected and have low energy,
so we see more of the negativesymptoms of
schizophrenia like low motivation, slowerpace, and disconnection.
Timorous use their anxious energy to pushaway from themselves and others.
(21:08):
They can be psychically activated by this
energy that pushes theminto experience of
more like the positive symptomsof schizophrenia.
So more in line with delusionsand hallucinations.
Ooh, that is so fascinating.
Yeah.
All right.
But we do need to look at the most severe
(21:29):
level of schizotypal, whichis the schizophrenic
severe disorder level.
All right.
So there's a small percentage of
moderate-level schizotypals whocan avoid regressing into
the schizophrenic level due to medication,counseling, and family support.
But the moderate-level schizotypals often
(21:51):
fall apart into psychosisif their efforts,
resources, and coping skills keep failing
and they just abandon theirattempt to stay
lucid.
The severe schizophrenicdisorder is where
we find actual schizophreniabecause we are
at a clear psychotic level.
There is consistent pervasive impairment andthey can't take care of themselves or
(22:15):
fulfill societal roles.
Usually inpatient or institutionalcare and treatment is needed.
Now, notably, the moderatelevels look more
alike as they decompensate,making the subtypes
more difficult to differentiate.
That is really interesting.
So as the personality starts to fall
(22:36):
apart, the subtypes start tolook quite similar.
Once the personality splinters and
fragments, it's harder to findwhere they fell from or
disintegrated from.
Yeah.
All right.
But let's get into these severe
schizotypal subtypes, which arereally the different
flavors of schizophrenia.
So the first subtype in the severe
(22:58):
schizophrenic range is the immobileschizophrenic, which
is a schizotypal core withschizoid features.
They're lethargic and different,apathetic,
listless, and stuporous, maybewith drab clothing,
a lifeless or mask-like face,and maybe like
slow, labored and whisperedor inaudible speech.
(23:20):
Wow.
So their schizoid-ness meansthat there are
more negative symptoms likeloss of pleasure
and possibly even loss of movement.
They are so passively detachedthat they seem
or even are unresponsive totheir environment
or pain or maybe just like automaticallyobedient despite consequences.
(23:42):
So there's a protective withdrawalto avoid the anguish of life.
So, so interesting.
Okay.
So here we see the negative symptoms ofschizophrenia represented, right?
So they can seem vacant or barely verbal.
Like everything is just drab.
Speech is drab, clothing's drab, motivationis drab to nil, really.
(24:05):
They just kind of exist.
And if catatonia is present,it's often seen
through movement, the senses,memory and cognition,
emotions and judgment.
So let's break that down.
A few examples of what that could looklike, catatonia specifically.
So emotionally, it can look like chronic agitationor irritability, but without any
(24:28):
external input or known reason.
It also can mean a rigid bodyposition called
catalepsy and the body can bemoved into different
positions by a third partyand they rigidly
keep that position almostlike you're working
with clay and can sculpt them.
Mm-hmm.
So sometimes it's keeping a facial
(24:50):
expression rigidly or tensing,grimacing, or keeping
a rigid smile regardlessof the situation.
And then there can be echoing others wordsor movements or stereotypical movements.
So like repeated motions thatdon't have a purpose.
Yeah, it can mean acting in an excited or
(25:11):
hyperkinetic manner with behaviorslike pacing
or mimicking others, but withoutreal goal direction.
Now conversely, it can mean withdrawal or
hypokinetic catatonia wherethere's a total
disconnect from the world around them.
The person is conscious, but unresponsive
to their surroundings, includingbodily needs
(25:33):
such as eating and urinating.
It can also be a mix of these things and
essentially they can appearnear vegetative.
I also can't help but think of theprevious schizophrenia subtypes.
Now we don't have them inthe DSM anymore,
but there used to be a catatonicsubtype and
(25:54):
I wonder if the immobile schizophrenicwould fit there.
Very, very possible.
Yes.
And these were coined like when there werestill subtypes of schizophrenia.
Makes sense.
Okay.
Okay.
But let's move to the last ofthe severe subtypes.
So this is the disorganized schizophrenic andthat's a schizotypal personality core
(26:17):
with avoidant features.
So they seem lost, scattered,and confused,
often even being unclear asto like the time,
place, and identity.
Their behavior and emotionsare contradictory
and unbalanced so they can portrayodd movements,
mannerisms, and posturing, as well as
behaviors like grimacing andinappropriate giggling.
(26:39):
They can even exhibit regressive behavior
such as discontrol of theirbladder and bowels,
and eating in a manner that ischildlike and ravenous.
Wow.
So you can see the disorganizationhere in the examples.
Like it's a bit chaotic, right?
So the disorganized type isout of touch with
reality and haphazard, versusin the immobile
(27:03):
type they're near comatose.
So in other words, disorganizedschizophrenia
is an active, chaotic subtypeversus the immobile
is a passive, detached subtype.
Yes.
I really like how you distinguish that.
And that brings me to their avoidant-ness
(27:24):
means that they are more activelywithdrawn, which
includes more positive symptoms such asdelusions and hallucinations.
So their thoughts and ideasare not logical or
functional but fragmented,diffuse, scattered,
and disorganized, which istotally fascinating.
Like even their delusions are incoherent
(27:47):
and illogical unlike otherpsychotic disorders
where their delusions are coherent.
Oh wow.
Okay, so their delusions aren'teven logical,
meaning you can't follow itversus with other
disorders like even at themost severe level,
their delusions are often cohesiveand elaborate.
But here the delusions themselvesdon't make sense.
(28:08):
Like they're just chaotic.
And then within that, theycan't distinguish
between what is relevant andwhat is irrelevant.
And so basically they experience all
incoming stimuli and responsesequally, which then
results in an equal possibility of anyand all outgoing expressions.
And so then it might be aninappropriate one.
(28:30):
Oh my goodness.
Yes.
So if you can imagine responding to all
input, like I'm going all brainscience here for
a second, but I wonder ifthe hypothalamus,
the relay station of thebrain gets flooded
and then the brain shorts out becausethe system is flooded.
Possible.
Wow.
(28:51):
But this results in communication that is
chaotic, irrelevant, andjust a mismatch of
incoherent word salad.
Interesting stuff, Doc Bok.
It is.
Oh my goodness.
So this is, this is really deeppersonality stuff.
And I know with our schizoidseries, we have
(29:12):
found a lot of schizoid orientedlisteners and
viewers, which we've loved.
We've loved the questions.
And if you have questions like about
schizotypal or about any ofthe disorders, feel
free to ask.
We love responding to our listenersand viewers.
You can find a form on thewebsite that you
fill out or a link to a form,or you can just
(29:32):
comment on YouTube.
We're happy to answer those questions.
But schizotypal is a hard one to
really kind of wrap our headsaround because it is
in that quasi-psychotic place,which is just
a really kind of interestingway to live that
I think a lot of people might have a hard
time understanding, but forthose who do or
who live in that space, this stuffis really important.
(29:55):
And it does remind me thatlast, last episode,
we put out a poll to see ifsome of our listeners
and viewers have experienced a psychotic episodeor even a quasi psychotic episode.
And at the time of thisrecording, I think
of the people who responded,it was like 40%
said, yes, that describes me.
(30:16):
So it's really, really importantto kind of
to understand this personalitytype as well
as others that are in that quasipsychotic space.
So anyway, let's bring this to a recap.
So we learned that schizotypal is an unstable
structure that is alreadyprone to backsliding
(30:38):
closer and closer to psychosis.
So at mild levels, it can look more likeschizoid or avoidant personality.
And then at that moderate level, we're inpersonality disorder territory.
So we are cycling in and out of reality.
And at the most severe levels,we are in full
blown psychosis with evidenceof schizophrenia.
(31:01):
So here, hospitalization and higherlevels of care are likely.
Now putting in a littlenugget, schizotypal
personality is a defectivestructure, meaning
it's more severe and can disintegrateinto psychosis.
So Millon lists schizotypal, paranoid, and
borderline personalities asdefective structures.
(31:23):
So these personalities are structurallyimportant
to understand in comparisonto other personalities
like schizoid and avoidant.
And then in our next episode, we're going todive deeper into this concept of being
structurally defective or like fallingapart, like closer to psychosis.
So you don't want to miss that one.
(31:44):
Exactly, exactly.
Yes, yes.
And on that note, that's a wrap.
So thank you for joining us today on thisepisode of The Personality Couch.
Make sure to check out ourblogs that coincide
with these episodes at www.personalitycouch.com,
especially if you're a visual learnerwith these complex topics.
(32:05):
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And on YouTube, hit that bellso you don't miss
a single episode in our schizotypalpersonality
series.
Be well, be kind, and we'll see you nexttime on The Personality Couch.
This podcast is for informationalpurposes
(32:27):
only and does not constitutea professional
relationship.
If you're in need of professional help,
please seek out appropriate resourcesin your area.
Information about clinical trends or
diagnoses are discussed in broadand universal terms
and do not refer to any specificperson or case.
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice.
I'm your host, Doc Bok, and I'm herewith my co-host, Doc Fish.
We are both licensed clinicalpsychologists
and private practice, and todaywe are continuing
our series on schizotypal personality.
(00:21):
And in this episode, we are tacklingschizotypal subtypes.
Specifically, we will take a quick jaunt
through history and then unpackMillon's disengaged,
apprehensive, insipid, timorous, immobile,and disorganized schizotypal subtypes.
But don't worry, because we know that
(00:42):
Millon's expansive vocab alsomakes us scratch our
heads.
So we will explain what allthese mean in detail.
So let's hop to it.
Okay, so let's start witha quick reminder
of what schizotypal personalitydisorder is.
According to the DSM, therehas to be a pattern
of oddities, cognitive orsensory distortions,
(01:02):
and social deficits.
This includes things likeexcessive social
anxiety, social isolation and withdrawal,
among other odd behaviors.
Now, you can often tell you'reworking with a
schizotypal individual dueto their eccentric
thoughts, unusual sensory experiences,
suspiciousness, and reading intobenign events as having
(01:24):
personal significance, whichis ideas of reference.
Right, yeah, yeah.
So the oddities and slightdisconnect from
reality are evidence ofcognitive slippage
and put schizotypals in the pre-psychoticor even quasi-psychotic camp.
But importantly, they arenot fully psychotic.
(01:46):
Correct.
Now, as far as subtypes go,most of the history on
schizotypal is actually in regardto schizophrenia
and basically like how schizotypalisn't quite schizophrenia.
Yeah, so I think what you're saying is
there's not much in the researchon subtypes because
schizotypal or schizotypalas a standalone
disorder, not part of schizophrenia, is a
(02:08):
more recent development in the field of
psychology in the last maybelike 45 years or so.
Right.
The two that I did find were not really
interesting at all and they don'tmap nicely onto what
we know about schizotypalpersonality today.
Exactly, exactly.
And I think it's importantto note that all
(02:28):
of the schizophenomena occurson a continuum
of severity, which also fits in with how
Millon conceptualizes subtypesinto mild, moderate,
and severe.
Yes.
And with that, let's get into Millon's theoryon the schizotypal personality.
Yes.
(02:49):
Okay.
So schizotypal is what Millon considers a
defective structure, meaning onthe severity spectrum,
the personality architecture itself isat risk of further falling apart.
So while Millon uses severity levels of
mild, moderate, and severein his description of
(03:11):
all personality subtypesfor the defective
structures specifically, theseverity shifts.
So even at mild levels, defectivestructures
like schizotypal are proneto impairment more
quickly than other personalities.
But let's break this down justa little bit more.
Yes.
(03:32):
So for schizotypal at themild style level,
the personality structureis still intact,
but also more impaired and more at risk tofall apart into a more moderate level.
Now we also find Millon's work in this categoryto be the hardest to understand.
I'm not sure that he fullyunderstood it either.
(03:52):
And we kind of have a view that he didn't
really get schizoids, let aloneschizophenomena.
Exactly.
Well, I think our viewersand listeners agree
because we did put a pollout on YouTube and
it seems that our schizo-orientedlisteners
and viewers don't reallythink that he got
it either.
Even though he's our favorite personality
shrink of all time, with schizoidsand schizotypal
(04:16):
too, we think he kind of missedthe mark here.
But anyway, so that's mild level,
especially for the mildlevel, but for the
more moderate type level, according to
Millon's personality theory,this is where we start
seeing the schizotypal personalityfalling apart.
So it represents the DSM, schizotypalpathology,
(04:38):
whereas other personalitiesdon't have disordered
dynamics actually until the severe level,
the schizotypal and other defectivestructures,
the disorder is actually foundat the moderate level.
So we've shifted the scale.
Yes.
This is where in psychodynamic, we would calla structurally defective personality
(05:01):
organized at the borderline level or basicallyflirting with the line of psychosis.
So in the borderline organizationallevel,
schizotypals go around in circles,going nowhere
before they restart.
They have a capacity to regaintheir wits and
function in life, but thenthey have transient
periods of like bizarre behaviors, irrationalimpulses and delusional thoughts.
(05:26):
So basically reality is blurred and it'sat the disorder level of schizotypal.
This also reminds me of Kernberg who said
that schizotypal personalitydisorder in the
DSM is the "intermingling of the most
severe schizoid personalitiesand the tail end of
schizophrenia."
(05:46):
So this highlights that borderlinespace, right?
Or what Millon calls that moderatelevel of dysfunction.
But okay, now we move to thatsevere disorder level.
What we actually have here is a disintegratedstructure that represents psychosis.
So in the DSM, this level is more likely
(06:06):
to be found in the schizophreniaspectrum or
psychotic disorder section versus thepersonality disorder section.
So with all of that context, let's diveinto Millon's actual subtypes.
We have six to unpack, each increasingin pathology.
So again, Millon differentiatesthose by three
(06:27):
levels of severity that wejust talked about.
The first is the mild levelthat is closer
to normal functioning, andthat is what he
calls the eccentric personalities.
The second level is thatmiddle borderline
functioning that he callsactual schizotypal
personalities.
Surprise, that's where we would findschizotypal personality disorder.
(06:48):
Then the third, last level has completely
fallen apart out of realityand cannot function
well, and that is what he labels theschizophrenic personalities.
Yes, yes.
All right, but let's start withthe mild eccentric level.
So broadly, this mild levelpersonality has
(07:09):
maybe one or two DSM criteriaof schizotypal
personality disorder, but they don't manifestobvious pathological features.
They might seem unusual maybe in their
ordinary life, especially withthings like sleeping,
eating, and socializing thatjust maybe seems
countercultural, but the pathologyisn't super
(07:32):
obvious.
They're not too withdrawn or peculiar,but maybe just a little.
Oldham and Morris refer tothe idiosyncratic
style as "a different drummer nourished by
a unique belief system thatcontributes to
an unconventional or eveneccentric lifestyle."
Okay, so this is a very professional
(07:53):
zhuzhed-up way to say that hemarches to the beat of
his own drum, basically.
Yeah.
Okay, so there are these verymild characters
that we're talking about thatare just a little
odd, a little eccentric,but they are still
prone to falling apart, butthey're not going
to be dangerous.
So it's important to notehere that none of
(08:14):
the schizotypal subtypesare dangerous, but
all right, Doc Fish, I want you to tellme about this first subtype.
Yes, the first subtype is thedisengaged eccentric.
So that is a mild schizotypal style thatleans more into a schizoid flavor.
So their similarity to schizoid can beseen in their passive detachment.
(08:35):
So these individuals have difficultywith eye contact.
They're often emaciated because they're
detached from their bodies andthe fuel that it needs.
And so as such, the disengaged eccentric
doesn't eat consistently andmaybe doesn't even feel
hunger all the time.
Now also physically, they can come across asstrange and maybe dress in like an odd
(08:57):
fashion and have unkempt hair.
They may have unusual movementsor even an odd gait.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And then with that, theircommunication is
just a little off along with their facial
expressions.
They are withdrawn and uncomfortable aroundpeople, but they are observant of them.
They live on the periphery ofsociety, just watching.
(09:20):
They are actually disconnected from their
thoughts or only looselyconnected to them.
And our opinion is that this behavior is
consistent with a more severeschizoid presentation
with maybe a couple of schizotypalsymptoms.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, I would agree with that.
So next we have the apprehensiveeccentrics.
(09:42):
These are mild schizotypalstyles with avoidant
features and sometimes evendependent features.
Ooh.
Now what sets them apartis that they have
chronic underlying anxiety and are easily
overwhelmed.
So they are more actively detached out offear versus passively detached.
And they are very much aware of theiranxiety and powerlessness.
(10:06):
Very interesting.
Yes.
And they are insightful into their tensionand also the inability to handle it.
So they're aware of the conflict between
this desire and need for relationshipjuxtaposed
with their intolerance of people.
So then they feel trapped in this conflictsince they can't handle it.
(10:27):
So they choose to detach and actively avoidfearful things, especially socially.
So this is likely going to be an odd andeccentric avoidant-like character.
Then you can see the dependentflavors pop
up in their need for people,but then they
pull away in like a counter move.
Ooh, yeah.
(10:48):
But now let's take it tothe next level of
severity, which is where theDSM, schizotypal
personality disorder sits.
Yes.
Okay.
So at the moderate level, schizotypals
experience notable psychotic breaks,occasionally blurring
reality and non-reality, but they do notlive in the land of psychosis.
(11:13):
Their previous coping skills stop workingand they don't feel secure, resulting in
frantic efforts to keep themselvestogether.
But it can actually come off as like superbizarre because eccentricity doesn't fit
well into society.
There is a high likelihoodof the mild types
(11:33):
sinking into this level,this moderate level
with more fragmented, haphazard,estranged
traits that definitely don'tfit into cultural
norms and systems.
That downward spiral is gradual,but persistent.
Yes, unfortunately so.
(11:53):
They are definitely at more of a riskto fall apart into psychosis.
So in this schizotypal personalitydisorder
range, we have the insipidschizotypal, which
is a schizotypal personality core with
features of schizoid, though sometimesthere can also
be flavors of melancholic anddependent personalities.
(12:16):
So they really lean into this passive
detachment, similar to schizoids,being behaviorally idle,
socially unengaged, cognitivelybankrupt, meaning
there's nothing there, and justoverall unexcitable.
Cognitively, there's oftena tiredness, blocking
of thoughts, difficulty concentrating,sensitivity
(12:38):
and illusions with sensory stimuli,and obscure thoughts.
Then emotionally, there seemsto be deficits,
and they can appear like indifferent,passive
and unmotivated and insensitiveto others' feelings.
Behaviorally they are flat, showing littleexpression, maybe sloth-like.
There's a slowed down pace tolife, and socially
(13:00):
they can be oblivious to socialcues and other
people's emotions, which thenresults in facial
expressions that are not necessarilyappropriate
to the situation, as wellas speech that might
be mumbled, monotone, boring,or just showing
some type of cognitive slippage.
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
(13:21):
And then their communicationoften reflects
confusion, odd ideas, circumstantialthoughts,
and or just limited responses.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
So then other people viewthem as strange,
kind of like drifters inthe background or
on the fringes of society, and they come
across as navel-gazers, so basicallyjust absorbed
(13:42):
in their own thoughts, right?
Just oblivious to the outside world.
And then they experience such a split
between their mind and bodythat they fear losing
the self of not existing andof falling apart
into nothingness, being a robotwith no meaning
or purpose.
(14:03):
So they fill the emptiness with power and
significance from brief psychoticexperiences
involving introspective ideas.
So they grasp at anything, real or
fantasized, to convince themselvesthat they do exist.
Mm-hmm.
Whoa!
Yes, like that feels likea very key point.
(14:26):
Uh-huh.
So it's an internal passive psychosis,
like bizarre telepathic powersor specialness,
whereas timorous schizotypalsare more actively
bizarre in psychosis, but moreon that in a minute.
So that specialness in the fantasyreminds them of their relevance.
So fascinating, yeah.
(14:47):
So they can enter psychosisthrough multiple
access points, sometimes dueto a low threshold
for stimulation, which then resultsin overstimulation easily.
And then when overstimulated, it canforce them to act out briefly.
This energy output can actually leadto psychotic thought processes.
(15:10):
Mm-hmm.
So if we paint a picture ofthis, let's think
of maybe sticking your handinto a dog's cage.
They might snap at you or maybehide in the corner.
So an insipid schizotypalis going to snap at
you, but that energy expenditurecan actually
lead to, like, barking their heads off.
And quite literally, they can kind of losetheir mind and go into psychosis.
(15:33):
So, so interesting.
Yeah.
But then conversely, this is thesecond access point.
They can also just quicklydetach due to not
enough energy or grounding,allowing themselves
to cut off the external completely andthen fade into non-reality.
Right?So here's these two reactions,
(15:54):
overstimulation or slow fade, leadingto potential psychosis
in this insipid schizotypal.
Yes.
And then I also love this quote.
Okay.
So (16:05):
"The insipid schizotypal occasionally
experiences the awesome terror offeeling dead, non-existent,
petrified, detached from the world andinsensitive to their own feelings.
On rare occasions, thesepatients may become
terrified by a frighteningsense of nothingness,
oof, of passing through a barren,cold, lifeless existence.
(16:29):
The disaster of losing self,of becoming a
walking robot, a petrified object without
meaning or purpose may overwhelm these
patients, driving them into abizarre psychotic state."
Oh my goodness.
How interesting is that?
(16:50):
Wow.
Okay.
All right.
So I'm just trying to pull thisall together now.
So in psychosis, for example,they can enter
a world where their telepathicpowers maybe
make them heroic, right?
Giving them meaning and then soothingthat fear of becoming nothing.
(17:10):
So there's like a grandiosity in their
psychotic powers that keeps themfrom that nothingness
and from death.
Like whoa, that is so fascinating.
I think so too.
I do.
So they often feel as though they are
slipping into nothingness andthey will do anything
to confirm that they are alive and real.
(17:32):
So the odd quirks and eccentric behaviors
are essentially ways to"forestall the void
of oblivion and nothingness."
Wow.
Okay.
So to keep psychosis from happening,basically.
Yeah.
And you can see the neuro piecehere, the slippage, right?
So the mind is slipping inand out of reality
(17:55):
and it's like a CD or likea record that keeps
skipping, right?
The odd behaviors and mannerisms are the
skipping CD or record and it'sthe brain malfunctioning
trying to tell itself that it's alive.
I mean, whoa.
Yeah, exactly.
(18:15):
Okay.
So that's the insipid, butthen we have the
timorous schizotypal, whichis a schizotypal
personality core with featuresof avoidant personality.
So they are restrained, isolated,
apprehensive, suspicious, guarded,and shrinking back or
like turtling in.
(18:35):
And this is still at the schizotypalpersonality disorder level.
Now unlike insipid schizotypals who
reportedly lack sensitivity,timorous schizotypals'
apathy stems from attempting to push down
their hypersensitivity inorder to protect
themselves from the pain of life and
(18:56):
relationships, especially becausethey've learned there's
little hope of obtaining securityand affection.
Wow.
So yeah, they can even abandon their ownfeelings, desires, impulses, and needs.
So their isolation is twofold.
They can't find comfort inothers, but they
also find no refuge in themselves,only shame,
(19:17):
despair, and a devalued sense of self.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So they intentionally substitutefantasy for
rational thinking to avoidthe pain of realistic
thought.
But society doesn't accept that, so theyare often shamed back to reality.
(19:39):
They start to insulate themselves behind
armor, pushing down their sensitivitiesuntil there
is emptiness and unreality,similar to the
insipid schizotypal's fearof non-existence.
But instead of the insipid schizotypal's
passive detachment from fearof non-existence,
(20:00):
the timorous schizotypalseems to actively
fill the void with excitable,bizarre behaviors,
speech, and hallucinations, all in an
attempt to reassure themselvesthat they are indeed
alive, right?
Which doesn't work in the long term.
So then they turn to fantasy,superstition,
(20:23):
magic, telepathy, etc. "to obtaina pseudo-community
of fantasized persons and objects towhich they can safely relate."
Mm-hmm.
Woo!
Yes.
So basically, they're creatinga supportive
relational group in their fantasyto meet their
own attachment and emotional needs.
(20:45):
So fascinating.
Yeah, that's a pseudo-community.
Yes.Yes.
Kind of to sum this up, insipid is passivelydetached and ignoring their needs.
They're disconnected and have low energy,
so we see more of the negativesymptoms of
schizophrenia like low motivation, slowerpace, and disconnection.
Timorous use their anxious energy to pushaway from themselves and others.
(21:08):
They can be psychically activated by this
energy that pushes theminto experience of
more like the positive symptomsof schizophrenia.
So more in line with delusionsand hallucinations.
Ooh, that is so fascinating.
Yeah.
All right.
But we do need to look at the most severe
(21:29):
level of schizotypal, whichis the schizophrenic
severe disorder level.
All right.
So there's a small percentage of
moderate-level schizotypals whocan avoid regressing into
the schizophrenic level due to medication,counseling, and family support.
But the moderate-level schizotypals often
(21:51):
fall apart into psychosisif their efforts,
resources, and coping skills keep failing
and they just abandon theirattempt to stay
lucid.
The severe schizophrenicdisorder is where
we find actual schizophreniabecause we are
at a clear psychotic level.
There is consistent pervasive impairment andthey can't take care of themselves or
(22:15):
fulfill societal roles.
Usually inpatient or institutionalcare and treatment is needed.
Now, notably, the moderatelevels look more
alike as they decompensate,making the subtypes
more difficult to differentiate.
That is really interesting.
So as the personality starts to fall
(22:36):
apart, the subtypes start tolook quite similar.
Once the personality splinters and
fragments, it's harder to findwhere they fell from or
disintegrated from.
Yeah.
All right.
But let's get into these severe
schizotypal subtypes, which arereally the different
flavors of schizophrenia.
So the first subtype in the severe
(22:58):
schizophrenic range is the immobileschizophrenic, which
is a schizotypal core withschizoid features.
They're lethargic and different,apathetic,
listless, and stuporous, maybewith drab clothing,
a lifeless or mask-like face,and maybe like
slow, labored and whisperedor inaudible speech.
(23:20):
Wow.
So their schizoid-ness meansthat there are
more negative symptoms likeloss of pleasure
and possibly even loss of movement.
They are so passively detachedthat they seem
or even are unresponsive totheir environment
or pain or maybe just like automaticallyobedient despite consequences.
(23:42):
So there's a protective withdrawalto avoid the anguish of life.
So, so interesting.
Okay.
So here we see the negative symptoms ofschizophrenia represented, right?
So they can seem vacant or barely verbal.
Like everything is just drab.
Speech is drab, clothing's drab, motivationis drab to nil, really.
(24:05):
They just kind of exist.
And if catatonia is present,it's often seen
through movement, the senses,memory and cognition,
emotions and judgment.
So let's break that down.
A few examples of what that could looklike, catatonia specifically.
So emotionally, it can look like chronic agitationor irritability, but without any
(24:28):
external input or known reason.
It also can mean a rigid bodyposition called
catalepsy and the body can bemoved into different
positions by a third partyand they rigidly
keep that position almostlike you're working
with clay and can sculpt them.
Mm-hmm.
So sometimes it's keeping a facial
(24:50):
expression rigidly or tensing,grimacing, or keeping
a rigid smile regardlessof the situation.
And then there can be echoing others wordsor movements or stereotypical movements.
So like repeated motions thatdon't have a purpose.
Yeah, it can mean acting in an excited or
(25:11):
hyperkinetic manner with behaviorslike pacing
or mimicking others, but withoutreal goal direction.
Now conversely, it can mean withdrawal or
hypokinetic catatonia wherethere's a total
disconnect from the world around them.
The person is conscious, but unresponsive
to their surroundings, includingbodily needs
(25:33):
such as eating and urinating.
It can also be a mix of these things and
essentially they can appearnear vegetative.
I also can't help but think of theprevious schizophrenia subtypes.
Now we don't have them inthe DSM anymore,
but there used to be a catatonicsubtype and
(25:54):
I wonder if the immobile schizophrenicwould fit there.
Very, very possible.
Yes.
And these were coined like when there werestill subtypes of schizophrenia.
Makes sense.
Okay.
Okay.
But let's move to the last ofthe severe subtypes.
So this is the disorganized schizophrenic andthat's a schizotypal personality core
(26:17):
with avoidant features.
So they seem lost, scattered,and confused,
often even being unclear asto like the time,
place, and identity.
Their behavior and emotionsare contradictory
and unbalanced so they can portrayodd movements,
mannerisms, and posturing, as well as
behaviors like grimacing andinappropriate giggling.
(26:39):
They can even exhibit regressive behavior
such as discontrol of theirbladder and bowels,
and eating in a manner that ischildlike and ravenous.
Wow.
So you can see the disorganizationhere in the examples.
Like it's a bit chaotic, right?
So the disorganized type isout of touch with
reality and haphazard, versusin the immobile
(27:03):
type they're near comatose.
So in other words, disorganizedschizophrenia
is an active, chaotic subtypeversus the immobile
is a passive, detached subtype.
Yes.
I really like how you distinguish that.
And that brings me to their avoidant-ness
(27:24):
means that they are more activelywithdrawn, which
includes more positive symptoms such asdelusions and hallucinations.
So their thoughts and ideasare not logical or
functional but fragmented,diffuse, scattered,
and disorganized, which istotally fascinating.
Like even their delusions are incoherent
(27:47):
and illogical unlike otherpsychotic disorders
where their delusions are coherent.
Oh wow.
Okay, so their delusions aren'teven logical,
meaning you can't follow itversus with other
disorders like even at themost severe level,
their delusions are often cohesiveand elaborate.
But here the delusions themselvesdon't make sense.
(28:08):
Like they're just chaotic.
And then within that, theycan't distinguish
between what is relevant andwhat is irrelevant.
And so basically they experience all
incoming stimuli and responsesequally, which then
results in an equal possibility of anyand all outgoing expressions.
And so then it might be aninappropriate one.
(28:30):
Oh my goodness.
Yes.
So if you can imagine responding to all
input, like I'm going all brainscience here for
a second, but I wonder ifthe hypothalamus,
the relay station of thebrain gets flooded
and then the brain shorts out becausethe system is flooded.
Possible.
Wow.
(28:51):
But this results in communication that is
chaotic, irrelevant, andjust a mismatch of
incoherent word salad.
Interesting stuff, Doc Bok.
It is.
Oh my goodness.
So this is, this is really deeppersonality stuff.
And I know with our schizoidseries, we have
(29:12):
found a lot of schizoid orientedlisteners and
viewers, which we've loved.
We've loved the questions.
And if you have questions like about
schizotypal or about any ofthe disorders, feel
free to ask.
We love responding to our listenersand viewers.
You can find a form on thewebsite that you
fill out or a link to a form,or you can just
(29:32):
comment on YouTube.
We're happy to answer those questions.
But schizotypal is a hard one to
really kind of wrap our headsaround because it is
in that quasi-psychotic place,which is just
a really kind of interestingway to live that
I think a lot of people might have a hard
time understanding, but forthose who do or
who live in that space, this stuffis really important.
(29:55):
And it does remind me thatlast, last episode,
we put out a poll to see ifsome of our listeners
and viewers have experienced a psychotic episodeor even a quasi psychotic episode.
And at the time of thisrecording, I think
of the people who responded,it was like 40%
said, yes, that describes me.
(30:16):
So it's really, really importantto kind of
to understand this personalitytype as well
as others that are in that quasipsychotic space.
So anyway, let's bring this to a recap.
So we learned that schizotypal is an unstable
structure that is alreadyprone to backsliding
(30:38):
closer and closer to psychosis.
So at mild levels, it can look more likeschizoid or avoidant personality.
And then at that moderate level, we're inpersonality disorder territory.
So we are cycling in and out of reality.
And at the most severe levels,we are in full
blown psychosis with evidenceof schizophrenia.
(31:01):
So here, hospitalization and higherlevels of care are likely.
Now putting in a littlenugget, schizotypal
personality is a defectivestructure, meaning
it's more severe and can disintegrateinto psychosis.
So Millon lists schizotypal, paranoid, and
borderline personalities asdefective structures.
(31:23):
So these personalities are structurallyimportant
to understand in comparisonto other personalities
like schizoid and avoidant.
And then in our next episode, we're going todive deeper into this concept of being
structurally defective or like fallingapart, like closer to psychosis.
So you don't want to miss that one.
(31:44):
Exactly, exactly.
Yes, yes.
And on that note, that's a wrap.
So thank you for joining us today on thisepisode of The Personality Couch.
Make sure to check out ourblogs that coincide
with these episodes at www.personalitycouch.com,
especially if you're a visual learnerwith these complex topics.
(32:05):
And as always, don't forget to give us a
thumbs up or rate and reviewus on your favorite
podcast app.
And on YouTube, hit that bellso you don't miss
a single episode in our schizotypalpersonality
series.
Be well, be kind, and we'll see you nexttime on The Personality Couch.
This podcast is for informationalpurposes
(32:27):
only and does not constitutea professional
relationship.
If you're in need of professional help,
please seek out appropriate resourcesin your area.
Information about clinical trends or
diagnoses are discussed in broadand universal terms
and do not refer to any specificperson or case.
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.