Episode 66 - Hideo Kojima: An Ode To Gaming’s Genius, Madman Rockstar - Pixel Parents Podcast - Pixel Parents | Video Game Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This week in the podcast, we're sitting down to take a deep dive
into the one and only Hideo Kojima.
What makes me special and why dowe all love them?
We also catch up in the games weplay in anticipation for a big
release. And on the Pixel Pics Showdown,
it's all about the subverting expectation as we name the best
surprise moments game. All this and more on this week's
Pixel Penis Podcast. Hello, and welcome to the next

(00:41):
episode of the Pixel Parents Podcast.
The sort discusses all things gaming from the perspective of
parents. I am your host, Liam Kelvin.
And today I'm of course joined by the bearded 1, Scott, the
tastemaker Curry. How are we, Scott?
You're getting more and more like a rare wrestling announcer
as you do it and get your job inICW one of these days.

(01:04):
I am indeed Scott Curry. And yeah, I'm, I'm certainly
here. It's been an emotional few days,
an emotional week with the little 1, you know, finishing
nursery, graduating nursery. I'm, I'm sorry, I'll, I'll come
back to this point, right. But graduating nursery and and,

(01:26):
you know, preparing ourselves emotionally for primary one and
the expenditure of purchasing a whole uniform for this tiny
human, It's disgusting. What?
What? Who is?
What racket that whole that whole nonsense has.
Like let's get logos on your jumpers for £9 million.
Right, OK, OK, I'm going to derail this now, right?

(01:49):
Because I'm with you, right? There's an absolute racket.
But I don't remember at school going in with presents for the
teachers and all that on the last day, right?
My house was littered, right? And we, we both have spouses in
the education system one way or another.
It's good, it's cool, right? I get the sentiment, but I'm

(02:09):
also like, Oh my goodness. Like that is so much, so much.
It's always been a thing when I was younger.
When did when did this happen? I don't know.
It's, I never done it. If anything, we got gifts.
But yeah, it's ridiculous. Like the amount of stuff that my

(02:30):
wife comes home with and at the end of term, it's disgusting.
So many mugs, so many bottles ofwine.
Like, where was this wine duringthe school year?
Do you know what I mean? When we needed it most and it's
it's just outrageous. But when it comes to when it
comes to graduating nursery and realize you could graduate
nursery. Idea.

(02:51):
I mean, it's, it's very American.
We've both went through it the past few weeks.
Both of the little ones have graduated nursery and my mum
came along to the the wee man's graduation a couple of weeks ago
and it was the same thing. It's like so Americanized now.

(03:11):
Yeah, but I guess it's it's it'snot something that we ever grew
up with. I suppose I just take it for
face value as that you know what, it was a good football
opportunity and a really good test of, you know, keeping the
old tears. Well, that's the the chunkiest
of tears. I mean, I could hide it well.
It was so warm and and the room when when, when she was getting,

(03:34):
you know, a thing, but I was just so sweaty.
So it could have massed between the sweat and the tears, could
have just became one and just sitting a little like Clayface.
But it was good. Like it's good.
And she's she enjoyed it. So that's the main thing that
it's all done now. And now we just have to survive
weeks of summer and working in the house where you don't have

(03:57):
to deal with it anymore. But working in the house, can't
get my flying apps during my lunch break.
I hated that when I was, I was working at home because you had
to adjust your entire routine tolike, this is what I always do.
But then it always bleeds into, you know, what will trap here,
what will trap there? And I'll talk a bit to the shop.
So just whatever it is just to get out for a little bit.

(04:20):
And it's not because of avoidance, it's just because the
you still will do that in the course of the day.
But they're getting a little window.
And I must admit I was a little bit apprehensive before moving
or changing roles just because Ihave a lot more access to me
here than what they did in the past.

(04:40):
But Nah, it's like he says. I'd also worry about it, but I
take my house. So you said it's going to be,
it's going to be a stretch. It's a fun, it's a fun ride.
I can't, I can't deny. And do you know what?
It's nice to have them home and not have to make breakfast every
morning and not have to get up at the crack of dawn.
It's nice. So I'm looking forward to that.
What you should do as knows the time to invest and that Nintendo

(05:03):
Switch to Sly sessions under thedesk.
Stone really hard this this thisconsole has no games but and I
and I can't I think I think we spoke I don't even know we spoke
about it last week or have we spoke about it off.
Recording, but it was off here. Fucking hate Donkey Kong's
design and Donkey Kong Bonanza. I hate him.

(05:25):
I fucking hate it. I think he looks ridiculous
like, and I know that's the .0 look at him, he's so kooky and
weird. Now he's like, I asked fine, but
there was nothing wrong with Donkey Kong.
Donkey Kong was fine the way he was.
Like it's just so stupid looking.
And I'm not entirely convinced in the gimmick of Bonanza

(05:46):
Destroy. Everything's like that's fun for
like 5 minutes and then it's just like annoying.
So it's, it's obviously going tobe the Super Mario Odyssey of
Donkey Kong and that's that's cool.
But do you know what we have instead Liam?
Super Mario Odyssey like and youalso have Donkey Kong Country

(06:09):
and all the other Donkey Kong games that do better like.
Go disgusted, go back and play them now.
I play them, I play them all thetime.
I play them all the time. I fucking love Donkey Kong
Country. I love, I love Donkey Kong
Country too. I love them all.
I love everything. But that's that's fucking I
don't. I just hate his design.
I think they've they've tainted the beauty and grace that was

(06:32):
senior Donkey Kong himself. And all the characters are just
so ugly, like it's just an ugly looking game to look at.
I don't I don't agree. I don't really think I don't
really have any thoughts on it whatsoever.
I don't look at it thinking thatwas tremendous or that was bad.
But I'm also as downtown target audience.

(06:54):
Like if if you're a if you're a younger human, they have that
game is made for you, man. Like it's the whole smash and
shut up and all the rest of it. Seeing my son play it, that's
going to be the, you know, the litmus test, I suppose.
But he's he can't stop watching that direct.
Like he's he's pure buzzing for it to the point where I'm

(07:15):
sweating. I'm like, let me finish it
first, you know? But yeah, it's it's been a
there's my dog falling off the couch.
He always likes to make a guest appearance on the short.
So that's him now, silly old manthat he is.
Doing it earlier this time, he'sdoing it earlier now.
Indeed, but he's going to go fora drink now and ruin it.

(07:36):
Yeah, but it's been a week. Definitely been a week.
Highs and lows. From a parenting perspective,
like you said, it's week of transitions, kids moving on to
the next step. And there's also been a lot of
video games and there's been a lot of transitions in there as
well in terms of moving on from one game to the next.
Maybe we'll talk about that moreor this shows go, but I'm I'm

(07:58):
actually looking forward to thisweek's show.
I think it's one that we've beensitting on for a while and it's
the perfect timing now because this is 1 where we're finally
going to hear Scott Curry talk from his very soul.
It's very he's very still heart that he has.
There's one there. There's something there, right?
There's something there underneath the stone.

(08:18):
So before we get into it, let's get some housekeeping at the
road, shall we? So of course, for this listening
or for those listening, this is the Pixel parents podcast, the
weekly podcast by parents. Again, for those who do the same
with each week. We discuss all things gaming
whilst raising lots of ones. If you want to be part of the
podcast, come say hello and share your thoughts with us at
Pixel parents dot B sky dot social on blue sky.

(08:39):
All right to us at pixelparentspodcast@gmail.com.
And if you like what you hear and you want to support the
show, you can leave a five star review.
And please of course, share thispodcast online with of friends
that really does help us outspread the world.
And of course, thank you to everyone that joins us each and
every week. So with that out the waistcoat,
what have you been playing this week?

(09:01):
What have I been playing this glorious week?
It's been an exciting week, Liam, one that's actually
started off quite slow and then ended up being very, very busy.
But kicking off the week with the the final chapter.
I can finally remember that Delta Run has four chapters in

(09:24):
so far, and I finally finished off chapter 4 of Delta Run this
week and it has left me with thebiggest gaping hole in my soul
since finishing it. Like I finished the game and you
know, I sat just like, what next?

(09:45):
Like what to do now? And I just couldn't I couldn't
face playing anything else. It was like Even so much.
So let's just go back around onemore time and just do it again
in a different way all over again.
It's outrageous how good that game is.
And I'm going to sing his praises.
I'm going to sing it shout it from the moon because it's it

(10:05):
feels genuinely like must play games.
It's it's one of those, like everybody asked me, top 20 games
of all time for me as up there. It is incredible and it's
visually incredible. It's an experience in itself.
It's emotional. And I've I've said that before

(10:26):
and I'll see it again. The music in that game, the
soundtrack in that game is just disgusting how good it is.
Like I'm listening to it when I'm going for runs and stuff and
it's just like, there may only be a minute, a minute and a half
long, but it's it's sustaining the soul.
William it's also on the Nintendo switch.
It's also, you know, propping upthe games that are on the

(10:48):
Nintendo Switch too. So there's there's definitely
something there. I think that if you could get it
for a decent price, there's something in there, man.
Like it's just filled with so much soul and the story, like I
wasn't 100% sure what it's goingand I'm probably still there, to
be honest with you, but it's it's saying up to be an

(11:11):
incredible. I don't even know what's the
second-half or, you know, whatever 1/3 of the way through,
2/3 of the way through, I'm not sure, but that's just
incredible. And now we just have to wait.
Toby Fox has said that this the space between the last two
chapters and the next two chapters is going to be smaller.
So hopefully, you know, we can find it out quickly, but I'll

(11:34):
have to replay it again at some point because it's just
incredible, man. I absolutely love it.
So it's same as I say, I finished then I just sat like,
what? Now?
I guess I'll, I guess I'll die, which, you know, I kind of felt
like doing through the week because it was so bloody hot and
disgusting, so bad. It was so bad.

(11:54):
I it was so bad that I actually slept in the living room floor
because it was too hot. It was just like, I'd rather
just not be in bed, even with the windows open.
It was hot. So I slept on the floor in my
living room on the on the wood cold floor in the living room so
I could try and be cool and my back now still hurts because of
it. But post finishing Delta run is

(12:16):
then, you know, I said this lastweek because I'm the
professional one on the podcast,but I had to be look through our
emails. I was like, let me let me go and
take a wee peek and just see what's popped up.
And we actually got a code from limited run games for Gex.
Lovely Gex. I mean, what's not to love?
I have such as like a weird history with Gigs because I

(12:36):
can't remember who I owned the game or I had AI had a demo disc
for it. But I seem to remember having
played the the Christmasy snowy level and the third game about 3
million times over the course ofmy young childhood.
But yeah, it's there. The trilogy.
So Gigs trilogy. So you've got Gigs 1 which was

(13:00):
from 1995, Two D platformer which was original, originally
released on a 3D O. What's the 3D OEM?
I've went a blank. No idea myself, mate, No idea
myself. Never had one, never seen one in
the flesh. But it also got ported to the
PlayStation One and the Sega Saturn.

(13:20):
Yeah, I'd never played it before.
No, he never played Gex in the PlayStation.
Never played Gex in the PlayStation, never played the
first one. Always just assumed that Gex 3
was the only Gex. But you know, I'm learning
though that it's not. And you know what see for see
for our first go around, this isdefinitely worth a shot.

(13:41):
You know, I mean, like I think that and I'll get to this later
on in the in the sort of breakdown of this, but I think
that for an initial goal at thissort of series and then what it
eventually turned into, it does a decent job.
Do you know what I mean? Like it knows what it is and
it's it does it well. Why just say this off the bat?
After I played Gex one, I was like, I'll maybe play Gex to

(14:01):
enter the gecko, but I didn't because I just wanted to get to
the main course, which was deep covered gecko, which is just
ridiculous. As I say, I played Deep Cover
Gecko or Gex Theist, I'm going to call it from now on as a
child. And I play that a lot.
So much so that, you know, I still remember all the weird

(14:24):
quips and you know, the fact that I used to think that Anna
and Nicole Smith was in the game.
Turns out there's actually not Anna and Nicole Smith.
There's actually some other random model.
But in Gex 3, I think it was outin 1999.
So I would have been at least 8 when I played it.
And I remember thinking that game's incredible.

(14:44):
I love this. It's it's the best thing I've
ever played. I think it came out, you know, I
when I was 8 and I just don't remember playing anything else.
But the trilogy itself is not isnot like remasters of the games.
They're not remaking these gamesas simple emulations of the
games that you've got there, warts and all.

(15:06):
Do you know what I mean? Like there's a few risky jokes
in there that even though I was like, can you say that?
Like, and I think that's the whole, that's the whole allure
of Gex is that he's the he's thecheeky one.
He's he's no Mario and he can hecan make Lud comments to females
and get away with it because he's a gecko.

(15:27):
And yeah, but I think that, you know, when you start playing it
because, you know, it's an emulation of it as you suspend
all disbelief when you're playing it.
You understand what you're getting into here and it
controls exactly as you think. It controls terribly the camera
as your worst enemy play in thisgame.

(15:50):
But there is something there that the collection of all the
remotes and stuff like that. All your daft we objectives and
and collecting all the flies andthings like that in the level.
It has just become obsessive to me now, like we spoke about last
week, then 100% completion in games and I'm just doing it
without even thinking about it because I want to do it like I

(16:12):
want to get that 100% in this game, which you know what will
sustain me until until the next one.
But it brings me on to my biggest grape with this game,
Liam, and it's one that having haven't made more thoughts about
it and going to read the the overall thoughts and the and the
world about Gex. The Gex trilogy is that and the

(16:35):
third game when you when you when you go into a level kind of
like Super Mario Sunshine. So you jump into ATV basically
and it takes you to a different zone and they're like relating
to films and movies. So there's an army zone, cowboy
zones is a Christmas zone. You know, you name it has got
it. But when you log into it, you've
got 3 objectives. So one of them may be do this on

(16:57):
a level, second one may be find a certain thing, and then the
third one may be another daft bestupid objective that you need
to go and do. Once you finish one of those
objectives, it takes you completely out of the level and
you have to restart the whole thing all over again, which is
just a complete nightmare. So it's like you literally have
to do everything again. So say for example, you've

(17:19):
collected 99 flies, but you accidentally pick up one of the
remotes. Well, you're just, you can't
even collect 1. You have to go and collect all
100 all over again. And it's just it's a pain in the
ass. Like it's killed the fun for me
at points where I'm like, I'm turning this off and I'm not
turning the back on again for a bit because you know, I'm not
playing this anymore. And but that's as I say, wars

(17:42):
and all. That's one of the that's one of
the wars of it being a 20 year old game.
Now, do you know, I mean, 26 year old game is that that's
what it was like back then. But this is one for like the the
historians of us. It's got, you know, the
historical inclusions of the Gate series.
So you've got like old advertisements, kind of loads of

(18:03):
art. And I think it has a prototype
for one of the sort of unreleased Gate game in there as
well. So you can have a look at that,
which is really interesting. It's got like different filters
you can put on their CRT filters.
You've got sort of white screen filters and stuff like that.
So it definitely does a lot for the for the historians of it
all. But yeah, as I say, it was

(18:24):
emulated over and it's, I think if you, if you hadn't made that
clear initially, people could bepeople would have a right to be
upset about this. But they never claimed to be
remaking the GECK series, you know what I mean?
Like as a simple emulation. And that's fine.
Personally, I would have liked to have seen more care and

(18:45):
attention put into it and sort of more more done to preserve it
in a way that, you know, make the yet more interest and
against for say. But I don't think that's going
to be something that happens in the future.
But I do think that if you, if you're happy to suspend all

(19:06):
belief from playing, you know, this isn't the Super Mario
Odyssey. If you're looking for just a
decent time to play a 2D3D platform or collection filled
with jokes relevant to the 1990s, something that you might
not understand. Some that have like, you know,
Monica Lewinsky jokes about her old lawyer and stuff like that
And, and a game with, you know, slightly Lud undertones.

(19:28):
This is the game for you. You know, I mean, like, that's
all you need. I it's, it's fun.
Like, I think it's one that I'llchip away at.
It's maybe one that I'll jump inand play a level or two and then
jump back out of. But it's, it was a fun we read
with it. I'd say that.
And you're playing anything elsethis week because I know you

(19:48):
were talking a lot, You're skating about about another game
that you're playing. What was that plane?
One that you will have them for with you perhaps.
Oh no, I can't talk about that yet.
Oh, is that from next week? That is from next week.
That is, that is under. That one up.
That is under embargo at the moment, but there's a very, a
very interesting game to, I'm kind of in my, my platform Anita

(20:12):
these days, but that's one that I definitely would recommend the
parents of us listen to it because it's incredible.
So yeah, have a have a listen atthat.
We are. We watched the space.
I love it. What can I say?
It's not like me do that, it's really not like me to do that.
But I interested. When can you talk about

(20:33):
redacted? Would that be?
Redacted Yeah. Next week, Yeah, at the time of
recording it's, it's something that I can't yet talk about, but
and I don't want to get into thewhole hassle of thinking that
I've done something wrong. So I'll just leave it till next
week and then do it from there. Sweating for that for one week?
Are you playing anything else then?

(20:53):
That seems like pretty busy week.
It has been, it's been filled with like just daft We things.
I've been really wanting to go and play the rematch beta and
stuff like that and on the rematch thing on Game Pass.
I really want to play that. Yeah, I think so.
I'm I'm I'm I'm genuine on a holding pattern known for Death
Strand and this is me just like playing everything.

(21:16):
I started a dark arch playthrough of boulders gate 3.
Don't intend on playing anythingmore than I played, but I got
off there the not to Lloyd and then that's me.
I know. And they're like, no, I don't
want to play this anymore. And I started playing tactics,
Olga reborn again for an hour ortwo just to kind of pass some

(21:36):
time. But again, the minute that Death
stranded pops at midnight, I'm done.
I'm away and I'm off to the races.
But I have also been playing redacted.
And if he was kind of like that Simpsons thing, it's like the
Atlanta Falcons. Atlanta Falcons I So I've been

(22:01):
playing. I've been playing that a lot and
I think that that's what I'm very excited to get into, but
nothing else. I've had a lot of plans to play
stuff. I'm kind of thinking about my
holidays and what I'm going to play over the holiday, which,
you know, take my Switch with me.
No, genuinely. And yeah, that's that's pretty

(22:22):
much been me, to be honest. Pretty good week though, more
things considered. It has.
It started off me thinking that I'm just going to, you know,
work my way through Delta Run and a couple of other things and
then Gex falls into your lap andyou have to, you have to, you
know, play that to come on here and talk about it.
So it's interesting. No, it's, it's the the joy.
We're always happy to do that and it's good.

(22:43):
It was good to kind of hear you about that and like maybe
something, you know, for a lot of our listeners that might be
interesting, that might not havebeen aware of it and played it
in the past. So it's always worthwhile to
share that. You have reminded me I'm going
to have to go back to redacted people, a different redacted
people just to kind of clarify our purpose.

(23:05):
And there's a bit of confusion over they may have thought this
podcast was aimed at kids and say it's definitely fucking nuts
as one of those ones. But yeah, the the trials and
tribulations of loving the. Content life, you know.
Games media, I suppose. But yeah, for myself this week
though, it's it's been ups and downs largely I think because

(23:28):
the weekend there, all I was doing was surviving.
And you know, that heat, the heat and video gaming doesn't
really go hand in hand. Even though I still want to, I'm
still a genuine I can I feel like I can breathe.
The air is so thick. And then you Chuck in like a a
PlayStation five, you know, wadding away in the background,

(23:48):
even though it's pretty quiet. It's just not a good mix.
Isn't not a good mix at. All that is not.
So I've kind of since things have cooled down, the gaming has
hotted up again. Smash 2 has just been still
doing its thing. I'm not going to talk much about
that. I think I did too much the past
couple of weeks. But yeah, still going strong,
you know, still family at all playing it.

(24:10):
My son is probably playing more Mario Kart World than me at this
point. Every time I come home from work
to be told this is sitting therejust getting the getting the
practice in. So I'm kind of like, you know,
don't you forget, I am the commander in chief of Mario Kart
in this house. He's not ready to quite
challenge for the throne. That day will come, and that's

(24:30):
when I retire. We'll do one last drive like
Fast and Furious. Oh my God that's like this is
this thing on here. Imagine that just like 2 switch
2 is in hand, your son has one and you have one of the chase
you driving off and the sunset giving it all up that is.
Oh my God I can't wait for to see that be created somewhere.

(24:51):
Someone will already have done it.
That is hilarious. Had to hear first.
I'm still, I still can't quite master the fixing all that.
I know what I'm getting there. But the same as you though, this
week it's really been the holding pattern for Death
Stranding too. Now when this episode goes live,
it will be out at least 24 hours.
At this point, it's already in the hands of some people that
got the dots edition. Not something I'll, I'll, I'll

(25:15):
do to be honest with you too often because I've been bummed
by that a few times in the past.Like I've got the early access
stuff and I've had no time to play it, so I've just spent like
an extra £20 on nothing. So yeah, just been waiting and
there's been a little bit of a packing mix approach this week
for me and some odd things, somethings you'd expect, like we've

(25:37):
got a bilateral and we've also kind of been doing a little bit
of family admin in the evenings as well.
Just got a few forms and all that to fill out.
It's just a lot of things comingat once, the usual stuff, you
know, household crap. So I've been kind of that's been
eating up a lot of time playing a wee bit of Triangle strategy
here and there. But the one that I've kind of
found myself sticking most time back with out of nowhere.

(26:01):
I think it was because of last week's discussion.
So went back to Marvel Spider Man 2 with the PlayStation, a
game that I've flattened. But I thought, you know, I've
not actually rerun the story since I beat it.
And I thought, bugger, I just put it up new Game Plus and been
really enjoying it. Like I must say, doing a second
playthrough, the the Peter Parker moments, like when you're

(26:23):
kind of going through and just kind of walking through and
pressing triangle to interact with things.
I'll not say when and when, justin case people haven't played it
yet. It's very slow, like to the
point where it's it's just not that fun to go through again on
the replay. That that being said though,
when you get to the action and stuff, it's like riding a bike

(26:43):
like and I've been making use ofthe gadgets and stuff.
Well, what more that haven't done played in my first
playthrough, I was very much straight up merely, but I
thought, no, let's just rock some gadgets, have some fun.
Still can't say I won some suitslike Miles Morales suits in that
game are absolute crime and I just don't think he got a good
run in that at all. But yeah, I found myself doing

(27:05):
that. And then, of course, going back
to a lot of Marvel Snap and whathas been a very contentious
week, Scott. Now it's a partial side update.
But since the one that I gave last week, which you'll be able
to hear in last week's podcast and on our channels, the the
mighty creators out there withinthe Marvel Snap media space have

(27:28):
all kind of came out and effectively collectively
condemned certain done off of what feels like to be a very
money grabby second either for this game since it went self
published. And I really do think this might
be. The death.
Of the end. Yeah.
So I've kind of been coming to terms with that this week.

(27:48):
Like the it's like a bad taste in your mouth.
And there's been new cards out there, Mama, now that got
released. And I'm like, I'm just, this is
something about I just really can't really be bored.
I found myself going to Duolingomore often than not.
And I've been faced with the choice.
You know what? Language, are you?
Learning Spanish. Espanol Senior So that's what

(28:12):
I've been doing. 2 bugs, there you go.
But yeah, about that. It's just really been a fairly
straightforward week. I think it is just I'm not one
to commit to any game just now, so I've just been kind of
enjoying a little bit of free time in different ways this
week. Pepperings of gaming just on the

(28:34):
go, but there's not been anything major.
But I must say, when the reviewsand reactions had dropped for
Death Strand into there was an overwhelming sense of obviously
excitement, but ultimately relief.
And of course, we will go in andwe will play it and we will give
you your own verdict and impressions as the beats
continue. This is going to be a big meaty

(28:55):
boy, so not going to come with areview.
We're probably going to do it ina couple of weeks time though,
so not next week, but the week following is to give us some
proper time, but also because Scott's away in these holly bags
as well. And so the the worst possible
time, I'm sure you may have to pack that PS5 with you that is
the. Fucking.
Worst of the Daily. I've said this to my, I've said
this to my wife. Tonight I was like, I'm going to

(29:17):
bed at like 4:00 in the morning tonight.
I, I don't care. Like the minute it unlocks at
midnight I am gone to the world.Yeah, well, if you're off, you
might as well. You know what?
I. Mean I'm not off, I'm not
working tomorrow, but I'll, I'll, I'll happily, I'll happily
do it. So I want to play it because I
can't play it next week. What's, I mean, where you're

(29:39):
going, we're not going to say we're right because we want to
detain some element of privacy, but you could effectively take
the PlayStation Five with you. I'm just, I'm just throwing that
out there, you know, for the. Evenings, you could do that, you
could do that. But there's, there's one
television and the entire thing.And I don't think that they
wanted to see it taken up by Norman Reedus's feet.

(30:00):
Like, I think that that's that'smaybe breaking point for the
family. So I think that, you know, maybe
I'll keep back to myself. I'll keep back to myself.
Was alternatively right now thisis me really doing the game on
math and logic part. You take the PlayStation 5,
right? You get it hooked up to the
Internet in the place and you take you play on the pool.

(30:21):
Tomorrow, Nah, I want it, I wantit, I want it and wave screen on
my telly. Here's here's a little
assignment for the right becauseI think that's that's there
might be a lot of listeners in the same boat as you right about
to go on holiday for the summer and Death Stranding 2 has landed
in the lap that could be excited.
There could be something else could be like me be playing
spider man 2. Take the portal with you and see

(30:45):
if it will work over the Wi-Fi network playing remotely.
I'm sure that's a bit and if notyou can do it by the game
streaming option on PlayStation Plus.
If I go just just test it just even for like 2 minutes.
I don't want to. I want to.
I want to play it in my telly. I've got my plan.
I've got my plan and what I wantto do down there.
I take my Switch every single time we go and I never ever play

(31:07):
it, but I have my plan I want totake.
I'm going to take my Switch downand I've got a Final Fantasy 6
on it and I'm going to play Final Fantasy 6 for the first
time. When I'm down there.
I'm going to take a creative beers and at night I'm going to
sit outside with my creative beers and play Final Fantasy Sex
and just drink the whole time and I cannot wait for it.

(31:28):
That sounds like a good plan. Sounds like a good plan indeed.
But yeah, it's that says. Bar that, though, man, it's been
a pretty straightforward week. You have to say it's just Death
Stranding, too, is all over the place.
And you know, that leads us on to our main topic this week.
And we can't talk about Death Stranding too on the beach
without talking about the creator.

(31:50):
They all toured behind it of course, and this test run into
launch week. So what better time to take a
look back at the career of one of video gaming's genuine or
tools out there Must not Hideo Kojima Scott it's it's well
documented right. We all love Hideo Kojima, but
nobody loves Hideo Kojima more than you, right?
That's. I mean, I'm pinning that for a

(32:13):
second. I think more people do love
Hideo Kojima more than me. I think that the correct point
to be made is that nobody loves Kojima, Hideo Kojima more than
me and our circle of friends. It's like we'll.
Do that then we'll do that let'sjust go one bit fuck it it's the
Internet. That's what we do.
It's been a hell of a week. Let's let's just take a claim

(32:35):
for it. Let's let people come for you,
Scott, because you are the people of this show.
Let's do it. Let's do it.
But you know, it's a chance for us.
This was, I've been really excited to talk about this
because way, way back before thePixel appearance podcast, right?
Both Master Scott Curry and I had a lot of game insight as
well. And there was one time we would

(32:57):
sit there and cover the big gaming shows, do a lot of blog
PCs, etcetera. The odd review.
That was a good way for us to kind of keep in touch with the
journalistic skills that we had built up when we had first met
us as younger men. And there was one time it was an
E3 and it was when Metal Gasol 5got a first proper, proper

(33:21):
showing. Like I was a big, big, meaty,
meaty trailer. I think it may have been one of
the first ones when you saw the white mamba within it.
And I just remember sitting thenthey were watching E3 at the
same time. And this was like peak Scott
Curry, Hideo Kajima hype. And you must have wrote no
joking, a dissertation and they put it on the website just

(33:42):
breaking down this trailer. And from that moment.
So I always knew this man loved to do Kajima right.
But Jesus wept. I have never seen it on this
level before. And you know, that just comes
from a shield love. And it wasn't, you know, it's
about the property made of Gasol, but as it's about this
magnetism that Kajima has unableto get people really deep and

(34:04):
obsessed in his world, looking in between the lines, the
meaning behind the meanings, etcetera, etcetera.
You know? So I'm going to kick things off,
Scott, you know, how did you come to love Hideo Kojima and
why? I read this question and I tried
to to pinpoint a moment in time where I fell in love with Hideo

(34:27):
Kojima himself, and I don't remember ever.
I'm being perfectly honest with you.
I think it would be remiss for me be like, yeah, I've loved
Hideo Kojima ever since Metal Gear Solid came out, or Metal
Gear Solid 2 or Metal Gear Solid3.
Because if I'm being truthfully honest here, I couldn't have
told you who the fuck Hideo Kojima was back then.
I couldn't have cared less because these were just games.

(34:48):
I didn't realize that people made games.
I just thought they just, they just, you know, were farted out
and that was it. They were just like.
Gaming theory somewhere. Just dropping God like games in
my in my lap. It's because it never really
felt like, and that's, that's just maybe my experience because
I know you've got, you know, thebig ones, but back then it

(35:10):
didn't feel like, you know, the authors of video games were
quite as big as they are now. Like you've got so many people
know that we, we literally, you know, sharp pants when they come
out of the game awards. So it's, it's, it's a completely
different situation. But my first, my first memory
and and the first moments when Ido sort of remember being like,

(35:31):
oh, someone does make me a your Solid was back when Metal Gear
Solid 4 came out and their national trailers for that.
And that probably coincides withthe fact that I was old enough
to actually get caught up in theexcitement and the hype for
Metal Gear Solid 4 and and actually been able to, you know,
follow the development of it andsee it when I actually came out

(35:52):
and being excited for it coming out.
But I never, I don't really think it was a an excitement for
Hideo Kojima. I think that that's the problem.
It was always the excitement forthe Metal Gear Solid overall
rather than Hideo Kojima. I think when when it became
about Hideo, it's probably more 5 to be honest with you, with

(36:13):
the whole Moby Dick studio stuff.
And you know, what was his name?Joaquin.
What was his name again? I'm going to I.
Want to say young green but. It was it wasn't walking young
on green or something like that because of the.
That was a wild. It was ridiculous.
I mean, it was a wild because every single person had figured

(36:34):
out literally the moment that that actually had happened.
Joaquin Morgan yes, so and and then people, Oh my God, it's
Hideo Kojima. Oh my God, it's Materga solid 5
and blah blah, blah. And then just following him on
Twitter immediately after it, following him following on
Instagram and seeing all the development happen or not happen

(36:54):
and seeing, you know, everythingthat come out afterwards.
It was just it became about Hideo Kojima.
And then you're looking at the beginning of meal, you saw three
scene directed by Hideo Kojima. Everything's about Hideo.
You know, it's just ridiculous and it should have been
obviously it should have been obvious since meal you saw with

(37:14):
one when you're fighting psycho madness and the screen flutters
on that says no room for Hideo or something like that, and it
flicks under that skin and blah,blah, blah.
So it's like it should have, it should have been very, very
noticeable from back then. But I think that I became aware
of Hideo Kojima back in Metro Gasol 4.
But I think that the hype and excitement for everything this

(37:35):
man does hit me with Metro Gasol5.
Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's areally very interesting kind of
walkthrough. And you've got to remember of
the Jesus. Well, I know we joke, right?
I'm not 60, right? There's only a couple of years
between us. But I mean, if I, if I look at
myself like what I love about him is that, you know, he really

(37:55):
is genuinely on auteur. You know, he's up there with
your Miyamoto's, Miyazaki's, youknow, Tajiri's.
There's some lakes of the world.Yeah.
And it's like. WWF wrestler Tajiri.
Pokémon, he's genuinely up there, just like you know, as a

(38:16):
as a unique, talented and just completely lawn to himself
individual that makes outstanding games, but he's not
afraid to take the risk to do so.
That's what we love about it andthe why partner.
When did I come to love him? Seems really like, you know, the
Metal Gear saw this like loving that game, the psycho man, this

(38:38):
moment. We all had it when we're kids.
I think I was about what, 8 years old, seven or eight when
that game came out, Can't quite remember not buying it.
The first exposure I had to to my cousin who bought it and he
said you must play this. And thankful to him that he
insisted upon it because lookingat the, you know, the cover art
of it now as an 8 year old kid, that's like that could easily

(38:58):
have passed you by because it's like, oh, I'm more rocking like
Abe's Odyssey and stuff like that back in the day.
But here it is like, wow, this completely madcap, cinematic,
cool soldiers, guns, all that stuff.
SP actually ticks all the boxes when you're a wee guy and then
appreciate it in different levels as you get older.

(39:19):
Going back to it, for me, a big part of coming to understand who
make who made the games for me was my love for gaming
magazines. And that's what I've got to
attribute when it came to like learning.
All right, this is me immortal, right?
Mel Gasola 2 is about to come out buying all the gaming
magazines and the constant HideoKojima blah blah, blah.

(39:41):
And the lead up to it's like, right, OK, right, he made that
right. He's on the radar.
And it just goes and grows from there.
Because that's effectively, I feel like for most people,
that's how you'd come to Nome. I'm not going to sit here and
pretend, you know, I sat and played Snatcher and you know,
I've followed his career ever since then because AI wasn't

(40:02):
born and B belshit. You know, I think it's different
to kind of retrospectively go back, but I mean, listen.
We all know what his breakthrough moment was, but
probably get through to that. I suppose, like on this note of
his past, and I'm not going to stay here for too long.
I mentioned Snatcher, but I knowthat you had went back obviously
with your love of Metal Gear Solid, particularly in the lead

(40:25):
up to five and went and played like Metal Gear Metal Gear 2
Solid Snake. I've not went back and played
the original Metal Gears becauseI just don't have an interest in
it. I'm like, you know, old game as
old as the old. For me, I'm like, you know, that
was the may have been the progenitor.
That might have been some conceptual and for like things.

(40:45):
And there you went back and played the score in terms of his
past. I'm definitely just going to put
cards in the table. Metal Gear Solid onwards.
That's what I'm with him. Tell me a little bit about his
past. No and the same as you like it
may as well have not have existed pre male gear solid.
Like it's it's sad to say that Ihad gone back and played Metal

(41:09):
Gear and Metal Gear too. But they have they have a DNA of
Metal Gear Solid in it, but it'snot male gear solid.
Like that's the reason why HideoKojima didn't really exist until
Metal Gear Solid because it exploded after that.
But Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2 are, are decent games like

(41:30):
remembering, you know, what theywere played on and, and sort of
how they were made and stuff. It's an interest.
And I thought you just farted. There is an interest in that
noise. That is an interest in, you
know, a couple of games to play and you start to see the history
and and the story all come together, which was why everyone
got really excited about male guests of all 5.

(41:52):
But with the 2 Metal Gear titles, I mean, they're, they're
practically the same game. It's just a wee bits of the
story are different. And God help you, you're playing
those games without a guide. Like God help you because
they're an absolute nightmare todo it.
You mentioned Snatcher and you mentioned Police knots.

(42:13):
Now these are two games that as a, as a Hideo Kojima fan,
essential reading, you know? Yeah, Haven't played them
myself. I'm pretty sure he also helped
out on a Castlevania game back in the day as well.
Having played that as well, could not care less.
So ultimately, you know, it's about Hideo Kojima's influence

(42:37):
on me comes with Metal Gear Solid and, and they go hand in
hand when Metal Gear Solid is great.
Hideo Kojima could not do anything better.
Do you know what I mean? Like he is the greatest of all
time. And, you know, Death Stranding,
yeah, is is on the side for me. But in my history with with
hideous even much like yourself is very much finding my way

(42:59):
there down the line. So like being older than playing
these games, that is a part of it.
Maybe down the line, police notice and Snatcher do become
games that I play. It's just finding, you know,
ways to play them allegedly. But it's just, it's, I'm just
tired of people who, you know, I've loved me.

(43:20):
I've loved the Okejima ever since I was born.
You know, actually when I was born I had the glasses, I had
the GF Ray glasses. There will be a certain group of
older gamers than I that may. That's not an impossibility, but
it was just different, you know,It's different for us and the
world generations. Yeah, I suppose like, I mean

(43:43):
that's that's where we're comingfrom.
Yeah. Just for a bit of clarity there.
I would say it just just most have actually got it in my head.
There was a podcasting group in called the Kojima Frequency that
I used to listen to like him I used to listen to religiously.
But I don't know if they're still going anywhere.

(44:03):
I think they stopped back in 2023, but they would basically
talk about all the hassidy of ofHideo.
Could you myself? You're interested in actually
learning about them? That's where you go to.
Great shoot, great shoot. I know you know the man himself
as I credit him with a lot of this kind of age of the video

(44:24):
game or two that we're in and have been we've been fortunate
to be in. You know, we've been lucky to
kind of grow up with video gamesand that's how we're kind of,
you know, the genius as a madman, as a rock star, as the
all things in between. You know, we've had like Sam
Lake, I mentioned earlier, it's kind of in the same league as
him. And, you know, obviously they're

(44:45):
great friends and have some law,you know, brilliant, mad
creative minds. And, you know, games media I
think really do have a lot to owe.
And also Kajima was a lot to them in terms of bagging up that
profile for the first time. You know, games aren't being
made as toys, as something I love them.

(45:06):
It's made by artists, people that have something to say about
the world have have a very unique way of kind of looking at
it. And games all of a sudden be
appreciated as arts, as creativeand devils.
And Hideo Kojima, you know, ticks all those boxes and more.
You know he's one of the granddaddy's.
Of it's it's testament to the fact that you cannot play a

(45:31):
Hideo Kojima game without finding out that it's a fucking
Hideo Kojima game. Do you know what I mean?
Like you see, it's like movies. Do you know what I mean?
A spike. Would you call them Spike Lee
joints? Like it's just like that.
Like you don't see that in all these games Now, do you know
what I mean? Like if if Sam Lake was to throw
that into an Alan Wake game, you'd be like, fine, that's

(45:52):
cool. Like me as Zacky.
I think that he does it a wee bit more now.
Yeah. But you know, I think he's
earned that right. But you're right.
I mean, the age of the age of the author and the fact that you
don't really associate, he associate games with authors,
but sometimes the autos are bigger than the actual games

(46:13):
themselves. Oh yeah.
Like Sam Lake is bigger than Alan Wake and Control as a
franchise. Hideo Kojima is bigger than
Death Stranding, and that's you're not even looking at this
now. It's like the reviews for Death
Stranding and the reviews for Alan Wake and stuff like that
are talking about Kojima are talking about Lake and stuff
like that as they do it. Miyazaki's mentioned in every

(46:34):
single Eldon Ring review like it's less about the actual game
itself and more about the peoplethat make it.
It's like, is this 'cause you must best work?
It's like could be, but you know, find out how is how is the
game. That's true.
I mean, it's it's certainly interesting and fascinating, I
suppose. You know, you get, you're right.

(46:54):
You get it in other medians like, you know, this movie like,
yeah, just Steven Spielberg's. You have even modern days like
Christopher Nolan, people will turn up.
So that's a Chris Nolan film. They turned up just for that.
They couldn't care less or know what the film's about.
And you'll get that with Kajima that you've found that happened
with Death Stranded, the original.
Yeah. And people just turned up and it

(47:14):
was polarizing, you know, because it was like, whoa.
Like for some people it's like, oh, yes.
And people say, well, I'm not sure.
I didn't really see a lot of people kind of like, I hate this
game, but I'm sure they're out there.
But, you know, if they're going and expecting Metal Gear,
they're disappointed. But it's such a unique

(47:34):
phenomenon. And this is a such a unique
individuals we are talking about.
They're not there chasing trains.
They're not there to just kind of cynically make money.
There's a moment of art and Kojima himself, there's just
nobody like him. And that's the thing that
separates all of these people. There's nobody like them all.
But let's keep it focused on thedeal.

(47:55):
And Metal Gear Solid, Scott, we've talked about it before.
It's a little known game, the breakthrough moment there, the
Hollywood moments. I would say in terms of like for
him, he's probably sitting back just chasing Hollywood because
that's how he's broke through. And you know, how we'd both see,
you know, the vast majority cometo normal at this point.
You know, let's not pretend. But it was total magic and

(48:19):
pushed gaming forward. And the series remains a dear
favorite for so many gamers out there, a lot who are listening
to this podcast and on this podcast.
But really, Scott, what was, youknow, talk about your love of
metal Geassol, what Kajima had master to the level with that
because this wasn't just you're not going to get.

(48:41):
There's no series like it. And it also has spawned so many
kind of copycats and inspired somany others.
What do we want to do for them? It's it's a souls like, if you
think about the first Metal Gearsolo, there's a souls like you
run from boss battle to boss battle.
That's basically what it is. You just don't have a you don't
have a dodge role and Nah, it's Metal Gear Solid, as it's the

(49:03):
first time that I ever remember being invested in a story in a
game like you're you're playing Mario and stuff.
It's like fine, Princess Peach, that's cool, but you know,
you've now got interplay betweencharacters.
It's all voice acted and stuff as well and voice acted well and
you know polygons. You have got metals Polygon arse

(49:24):
on screen, which is great him and Oticon pushes himself, so
that's also nice as well. And it was just cool.
Like, you know, it's your it's it's baby's first anime.
You know, I mean like it's like it is as anime as all hell, but
just really, really grounded in like weird western stuff.
It's mad. And you know what I see as a
concept that is the most ridiculous game of all time?

(49:47):
Like the whole the whole the whole the whole thing about it
is just wild. But it works.
Like you managed to get caught up in this game and see when you
actually go back and play it. And I remember playing it with
like my friend back in the day when he had it and watching him
play it being like this game is amazing.

(50:08):
And it's like it's long, like you're playing it for ages.
But see, if you go back and playit now, Liam is the shortest
game of it's so short to actually just run through it.
It's mad, but it's the it's the whole cast of characters.
I mean, obviously you've got Snake himself, you know, David
Hayter, as if there's ever a voice and and video games that's
synonymous with one character. That's that man until Kiefer

(50:30):
Sutherland had his way. And then you know, you've got
Colonel Campbell as well. You've got medal Silverbrough,
you've got Arthur Coin, you knowChristopher Randolph and stuff
as well. It's just an outrageous cast of
characters and they somehow justwarm their way into your heart.
The the, the codec calls the, the moments in the game like the

(50:52):
Hyen D What's a Russian gunship doing here?
The rats. We speak to him, but you speak
to Master Miller. You've got psycho madness and
stuff like that as well. Vulcan Raven shout out to the
big man himself because he always gets lost in the shuffle
here because psycho madness is the man, but Vulcan Raven
deserves some flowers. People forget about sniper wolf

(51:15):
as well, which you know, get thehandkerchiefs out in more ways
than one, but it's just, you know, an absolutely gorgeous
game. It is so ugly to play it now,
but I do think that it's it's necess.
I spoke about Undertale AI spokeabout Delta and earlier on being

(51:37):
that all must play games and Metal Gear Solid is also must
play games like it feels necessary to play Metal Gear
Solid at this time. Do you know what I mean?
Like even even though the sensibilities and stuff like
that in it and some of the game playing it as a bit naff now,
but back then what? What a man, like what?

(51:57):
What a fucking game. I mean, yeah, I mean, The thing
is though, I suppose anybody at this point could come along and
have like the one that wonder. But then he goes and follows up
with Metal Gear Solid 2 and Metal Gear Solid 2.
You know, again, it wasn't just all about the sub the the style
part of it's the substance that played so well, made all those

(52:19):
improvements you wanted stole looks insane to this day.
And seeing that that was really,you know, that sensation of
Metal Gasol, the excitement, thethrill of somethings like this
is this feels excitement. This feels like something almost
that we shouldn't have our handson yet.
Metal Gasol 2 had that similar so ahead of his time, but the

(52:39):
thing that was most ahead of histime was the story and the all
the thematic elements over. He must be sitting there with a
big fat stogie. Think a bloody tell you all the
themes that comes up from metro Gasol 2 and it's almost chilling
and it's not the first time thatit's happened in his career as
we'll get to because this is kind of almost like Hideo Kojima

(53:02):
and the view. I suppose at this point, not
ranking anything, but it's more just a kind of journey through
his work. But Miracle saw too, man, like
it's it's a game that of all of these has titles.
That's the one that I feel gets only gets better with age.
You can pass into this. Nail in the head literally said
what I wanted to say was that it's one of those games where

(53:24):
when I first played that I was like, Oh yeah, like it's more
Metal Gear Solid. But over time it has grown and
grown and to possibly be in one of my like top it's top three,
maybe maybe number one favorite Metal Gear Solid game, though,
because everything everything that it does, you're talking
about the story, the characters as well.

(53:46):
Again, Do you know, I mean like somehow you've taken you've
taken foxhound and you've brought this brand new unit and
there as well. It's just like it shouldn't
work. But fat man, what do you call
them? Vamp Fortune got.
That in that intro. Who else saw this?
Is there anyone else I'm missing?

(54:08):
I don't think I'm missing anyoneelse.
I think Peter, I think Peter Steelman.
I think Peter Steelman went in as one of them.
But yeah, regardless, it's just outrageous how good Mayor
resolved to us. No, I didn't mention Olga.
Olga as well. That's.
The big the big baiting switch, the.
Swerve. Who else would get away with it,

(54:29):
though? That ultimate baiting switch?
Yeah, that that buzz, if there wasn't a game, like I couldn't
buy it, Dave 1 instead of a PlayStation two at the time.
But it's like playing it with myfriend who did have it.
And it's like you're not playinga Solid Snake.
What? What A lot of nonsense.
But I wasn't outraged. I was more confused.
Yeah, I'd love, I'd love for that to happen.
Like now, do you know what I mean?

(54:50):
Like like to be old enough to have witnessed that and
experienced that would have beenincredible.
But you do, you do play a solid snake.
You play, you play with him in the first part, which is is
great. But riding riding's class, like
I'm sick. I'm sick of the anger for him
because riding is great. Oh yeah, that's, I mean, he's
definitely on this crust, probably the best appearance

(55:13):
he's had. But when we talked about the
themes and stuff like that, and then for him just to think like
the theme of surprise is really just kind of a thread all the
way through his career. When you get to then Metal Gear
Solid 3, which we'll be experiencing again in a couple
of months, to Delta. And it makes sense to me, you

(55:35):
know, chronologically to do that, but understand why they're
doing it. It's my personal favorite in the
series. Sneaky here.
But again, I remember at the time same thing like reading the
magazines, like what like you'rejust thinking he's you know,
you've got like a potato brain at the time.
You're like, he's just going to keep going into future, but not
just like, let's just go back, let's take you all the way back.

(55:59):
And that game itself, it didn't it felt new.
It felt definitely it wasn't like this was a man that was
clearly not willing to rest in his models.
He was creative. He was wanting to do something
different. The camouflage system and not
really blew me away. The things there's nothing else
like it and just I can have thisone look feel yes, that look and

(56:21):
feel might be grey and brown, but at the time that made so
much sense and it looked fantastic coming out and Anita
when there was banger after banger on the PS2 and it's like
no, they know the king ain't dead and it just drops way this
way and they're like this is utterly fantastic.
Giving them the fans kind of what they think they want.

(56:41):
It's like if you're not playing a solid snake, right, mate.
Little legs, all the snake, mate.
Solid Snake, you know, you're playing as the progenitor of all
this, particularly right back. We're going to invest you into
the chronology even further, which I find so genius.
And then talk about boss battle Scott.
No, you know, he does it again. Yeah.
And it's like, you know, I'm going to up this up.

(57:03):
Arguably the most iconic like. The best unit for pound, the
best, the best unit. Yeah, I can never remember the
name. Like the group name.
I can never, ever remember what it is.
And I always have to Google it. And then I'm like, oh, of course
it is. But the fury, the pain, the end,

(57:23):
the fear and the boss, the cobraunit, The cobra unit.
So as so as incredible stuff, I mean, and it's jazz.
Banger after banger after bannerbanger.
Like, I'd maybe argue that, you know, the fear boss battle is
about, yeah, pain in the arse. Yeah.

(57:45):
There's more than one way to do it, do you know?
I mean, that's the thing with with with with Hideo Kojima,
that over time, it's that it's not just always guns blazing.
It's as you, as you manage to tranquilize all the bosses, you
get all the camels and stuff like you've got the Keratans and
stuff in there as well that if you shoot them, you you get your
collections and stuff like that as well.

(58:06):
It's just. I mean, you're talking about an
era. Well, I think Hideo Consuming
was made for which was. Yeah, pre Internet explosion.
What a word of mouth and, you know, magazine chatter.
Yeah. You know, people writing in
letters like, you know, you could do this, You could do
that. And it was like the attention to
detail and the little almost Easter egg like nature of very

(58:28):
simple features. And he doesn't do stuff that's
like, you know, you go back to Psycho Mantis.
You ever think about the end allthese all things that he papers?
And now it's obvious. Yes, the the walk arounds and
the little Easter eggs and the ways around that are so obvious.
And you're like, God, that's so simple.
But it's so it just shows that he does have quite a, you know,

(58:49):
a lateral way of thinking, you know, which is surprise people
by putting stuff right under their noses.
And he also has some goofy things in there as well and a
little bit, you know, risky elements and and he does have
man does have a taste. Yeah, still still does to this
day. Still does.
Yeah, still does. But hey, you know he's still.

(59:10):
Alone. Now he's got, now he's got a
million cameras to take picturesof people.
It's can't. You can't keep getting away with
us, Liam. So what's in that USB stick?
Just just millions of food picks.
Jesus. Oh man, Hey, I've just been
Norman read this. Oh man, that's true.
But. Yeah.

(59:31):
And then Fast forward again, youknow, while we're going, they've
obviously we've must have thingslike it's one of the Endles as
well, which we all picked up because of the demo and stuff
that was on it. And it wasn't something that I
really vibed with some of the Endles.
This wasn't my Yeah at all. I'm kind of the same as you, to
be honest with you. I never really got on board with

(59:51):
it either. It's one of those games it's
kind of like Armored Core with with From Software.
It's that. It's one that if you handed me,
I'd play it, but I'd never go out my way to play it.
Yeah, yeah, I totally get what you mean then.
I'm in the same boat man. Like my my cousin loved that.
He was huge Hideo Kojima fan. Many late nights just him just

(01:00:13):
talking to me about the insurance and outs.
Lord of Metal Gear Solid and some of the Enders, when it got
to those ones, that's when it'd be like I'd be falling asleep,
but I was like, I appreciate your enthusiasm.
Then there was other things in between it all.
You know you had like the Metal Gear acid and stuff like that as
well. I didn't really touch any of the
kind of portable type spin offs and it came from the Metal Gear

(01:00:37):
series myself. No, he.
Wasn't really. He wasn't really involved in it.
Yeah, Acid, Acid 1 and Acid 2 itactually decent games on the
PSP. Portable OPS, although not
directed and I don't think it's Canon.
I think that's the problem with the white people sort of discard
it. And obviously you've got Peace

(01:00:58):
Walker in there as well, which is there, you know, peace, Peace
Walker ran. So may I go solid 5 could walk
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm keeping itthat way even though that might
be incorrect, but so it makes. Some people would say you're
bang on them. It's.
I think, I think I'm saying thatI was an intense.

(01:01:19):
Time. The longest time you would
insist to me about going to playPeace Walker.
I think it was part of a collection.
It was in the HD collection thatyou could get on the PlayStation
3 and PlayStation there the Xbox360.
You can also buy it on Xbox right now on the Xbox store and
backwards compatibility for likea 5 or so.

(01:01:39):
Buy it man I. Remember trying starting to play
Peace Walker. Excuse me, just your behest was
like that. I have to go because again, I
just wasn't in the headspace forhand tail back then.
And I was also worried that it was going to be something that
would get get acid, which it wasn't.
And a lot of people was like, yeah, you know, you'll
understand the story a little bit of going to 5:00.

(01:02:00):
Not that you had to, but it helped.
But then maybe I'm going to takehis back a wee bit to the
PlayStation Theater. One of your most disappointing
consoles, I believe. And Metal Gear Solid 4 like to
show you the power of the day ofKojima.
We both did it. You know, he made us show up for
that console. You know, he made us show the

(01:02:21):
fuck up. Now remember the moment when I
was so glad that I had the PlayStation 3 because I had
bought it for Uncharted because I was young.
I had, you know, full time wage for the first times coming in.
I thought, fuck it, I'm just going to go buy it.
And it's far too big, far too heavy and far too expensive.
Plain Uncharted loved it. But I was like, and I was toying

(01:02:42):
was trading it in and then seeing it in the side of the
bus, the ad well, Metal Gear sold for Guns of the Patriots
and that game again just delivered that feeling.
The only he could really deliverthis Hideo Kojima brand of a
game. But it's not straightforward
enough without being. And it's also just there's a

(01:03:02):
depth, there's a weirdness. There's something about the
games. He has that Genesee choir about
his games. I had to squeeze that.
In. I know you had to.
I'm glad you did. But it's only way to describe
me. The Octa camel system, the baby
and the beast unit I absolutely loved in that game.
And you know, the beat odd characters driving and stuff
like that as well. Like you had so much character.

(01:03:25):
It's kind of almost the ugly duckling of the series.
Though I have to say that even though it was total fan service
and largely, you know, trilogy worth of movies and cutscenes in
there, but we don't mind it because this is the point I'm
getting towards is that one of the things that I love about
Metal Gear sword, the name of Hideo Kojima had dead for me as

(01:03:48):
a gamer was building in me. And it's telling me the
appreciation for the cutscene and it all is thanks to all of
these games we've just talked about.
You know, it's like I'll sit through everything and then
Metal Gear swords for and it's like I'm very happy just to
drink this in watch some eggs get fried.
Just, you know, yeah. You want to do like a 2 hour

(01:04:09):
cutscene? Just knock yourself out, man.
I'm just. Going to stand on here.
Go for. It and it did like you know,
that was like quickly became a main event for me for gaming.
I've always loved it since MetalGear Solid in the PlayStation.
Like, I would love nothing more than watching events unfold even
though it's like you're not playing.

(01:04:31):
But it's the feeling of earning it, progressing the story, get
into a big story beat and pushing you on that constant
loop that we've seen done beforethat and you know, since then as
well. But to deal, Kajima just made it
cool as fuck. You know, for me personally,
that's only way I can describe it.
You know, that's the genius element of them.
You know the Rockstar element ofthem.

(01:04:54):
Then we're going to start to, you know, wait forward a bit
because this is a bit of a fly by Nate too.
We talked obviously Mel Gear Solid, Hideo Kojima, you know,
hand in glove. That's basically what is this
what he's so he's known for and do you think that his employer
at the time, Konami would be really fucking buzzing about
that? But we're going to have to get
to know which is the ear of Metal Gear Solid 5 and Ground

(01:05:17):
Zeroes. You know, the the greatest paid
for game demo of all time. You know, it's talk about depth.
I think it was a weird but kind of smart decision, probably in
hindsight, really start as a fewdemo would have been better
overall, but it was such a proofof concept almost, which is like
we're taking it open and it's Mel Gear Solid, but not as you

(01:05:42):
know it. Once again adding an element of
freshness to things, shaking things up for better and for
worse. Then this is when the rubber
starts to hit the roads. The conflict between Konami and
Kojima as well. And you know the build up that I
remember being at work and you texted me about what the events

(01:06:04):
unfolding. You know when he was effectively
not part of that in the modes were taking his name off the
games. Everything that was unlike
anything you had seen because you couldn't really fathom it.
No, wait a minute, you're getting rid of the geyser that's
put your most successful thing out there that don't make a lot
of sense. But there's also a lot of, you

(01:06:25):
know, flexion backroom, you know, conflict that's happened
there and I think really it was always bound to happen.
You know, when we look at the end product of Metal Gear Solid
5, The Phantom Pain and Ground Zeroes as well, the thing that's
most heartbreaking about is thatyou can feel that that is the

(01:06:46):
that's the product of a broken home effectively.
And I say that as one myself. It's like it's one of those ones
where this is a kid that just needs all, you know, need just a
little bit more attention in that sense.
And this was the the one that didn't get a lot of kids don't
get the attention. My mum and dad were falling out
when it needed it the most. Just to kind of help it be a

(01:07:09):
little bit more rounded than thedisclaimer.
I'm not saying that's the case for all from a broken home, but
it's the only thing that could keep in mind.
And I'm with these. I'm from one of them, but it's
you know, that's what it felt like like Mel guess I was 5.
Despite it having the best gameplay in all of the series.
And to this day it might change after this stranding to the best

(01:07:31):
game play he's ever put out. It was just a sad sensation of
it being under baked, undercooked, you know, didn't
deliver on the story promise. And it's important to reflect on
that chapter with a deal consumer because, you know, we
don't get it right all the time.And you know, you to grow,
sometimes you have to break free, break out, just break

(01:07:56):
relationships sometimes. And I think that's what's
happened. It's not putting him at fault,
but it wasn't faultless. You know, I don't think it was
just all of a sudden powers thatbe restructured at Konami and
booted him out. It's obviously been a tactic for
something that had been brewing.And I always found it strange
afterwards because naturally thegaming community put their arms

(01:08:18):
around Kajima. It's like, no, he's, he's given
us so much. You know, he's, he's an
artillery, he's a genius. He's somebody that we want to
protect. I feel like the biggest
benefactor of the Kajima and Konami fallout was Jeff Kelly.
That was the biggest benefactor because since that moment
onwards he's like, no, I'm your dad now.

(01:08:42):
You come, you come with me here the.
Opposite. Just just don't.
Listen to them. You're mine now.
It's, it's difficult to talk about that period in time
because I had so many hopes and dreams from August solid 5 and,
you know, taking what we got. And I think you've said this a
lot in the past and stuff, and it's, it's taken a while to come

(01:09:04):
to terms with it. But even if you had given Hideo
Kojima 2 more years to make thatgame, I still think we'd all
been disappointed with it. Like it did nothing to to wrap
up any of the story for the gamealready.
Do you know what I mean? And then everything that's been
shown since. So I think it was just by the

(01:09:25):
end of it, it was just, it took too long to make and never lived
up to the hype, but it flew by because it played really well.
Do you know what I mean? But it's still, it's still with
this sort of pain in my heart like that, that we don't know
the we don't know the backgroundand and stuff like that.
But it also gave us Kiefer Sutherland, this is, you know,

(01:09:49):
Venom snake and Troy Baker got an acting gig out of it too.
So and without that, we may not have had Higgs and Death
Stranding. Very true, very true.
I mean it has all worked out andthat's the thing like Testament
or testament to his endeavoured,you know, you think it was
around about the October that year, it was 2015 Fan Pain

(01:10:13):
commits was October that year, all the shit hit the fan by that
December. He's kind of reopened their
consumer productions effectivelyat that point, hasn't he?
So it's quite an interesting turn around.
It's also very quick. I remember like when they were
when they were talking about thedeal with PlayStation for this

(01:10:36):
random, which we've come to know.
I can't remember if it was revealed the name at the time,
but it was just that deal, that hem with Andrew House just kind
of sat in there together and it's like right, he's back, he's
cooking again. And we then have this four year
wait, the four year wait to get to death strandom and we saw the

(01:10:59):
trailers and all that, and the lead up to that was so
intriguing because the original trailer say, what the fuck is
this? And still the after after you
play them. What the fuck is this?
But it's it's one of those things that we would like to the
future over the freedom element,the good and the bad, the
consumer productions either, I suppose, and you know, it was

(01:11:19):
came. It was inevitable, you know,
after, you know, I think after the with Mel Gasol 5 don't
forget you had the fox engine and he's begging that up hard
and it's kind of hunting at the time beforehand that he was
wanting that freedom. You know, he was he was
outgrowing the publisher at thispoint and I think he'd been on
that journey to kind of discoverwhat has his sweet spot.

(01:11:42):
His voice is no greater. Their stranded was.
I was so happy for him because it's like as I created, it's
really important to at least have that moment to go with
absolutely no shackles and try and create something and tell
something and the whole like, you know, strand game, that
concept and the sentiment behindit, the theme of connection.

(01:12:02):
It said it really is like unlikeanything else out there.
You know, it's a very, very serene, chilly experience with
random tad ghosts chopped in there for good pleasure and baby
start to your chest. But you know, it's it's
definitely I remember and the lead up to Death Strand and what
I recall the most was actually the both of us, like we're just

(01:12:25):
not sure. And you've you've I actually
bought Death stranded before because you're like, I'm not
buying it. You're just like, I'm just not
sure. I think it was that I don't want
to be disappointed thing. Yeah.
And you weren't actually sure. It took a while at first,
though. I remember like got his hooks on
me and then I put it down. And then by that point you're

(01:12:46):
like, not Scottish hooks on me. And I'm so glad.
And then obviously you go into platinum at twice and it's
become one of your most favoritegames by him.
But you do also understand as well, which I appreciate that as
polarizing. You know, like for me, it's not
a game that I would say I hate, but it's just one for one reason
or another. And I think it may be just

(01:13:07):
because I'm a parent as well. It might be too serene, which
ain't a good thing, which is whyI'm, you know, I'm tentatively
going in towards death stranded 2 on the beach.
As I've said many times in the podcast, I I want us to be the
comeback moon, which is, you know, the the noise that's been
made around that as yes, for me personally, I come back because

(01:13:29):
they're stranded planted a seed of doubt in the sense of you,
can you go too far? You know, can't.
Do you need some restraint? I am in the firm belief yes, and
what I'm hoping to experience with their stranded too this
week. You know that when you're
listening to this, I'll be playing it as that sensation of

(01:13:50):
here is someone that has responded, listened and taken on
board that feedback to galvanized his vision to make it
more crystal clear, not compromised.
Galvanized it to the point whereright.
We know what this is about. It's it's fully you, but you've
also governed us a little bit more there that people need you

(01:14:11):
probably straight to to left field.
Let's just bring it back to the centre a little bit.
And for Hideo Kojima, you know, coming back to the centre is
still very left. Field but 100% I think, you
know, we haven't mentioned the the elephant in the room, which
you know, kicked off their stranding, which was a playable

(01:14:34):
teaser for the game. Silent Hills, of course, which
which had Norman Norman read this in there as well.
That was lost to time and now we've got Death Stranding.
So it's like, but that's that all came from a relationship
between him and Guillermo del Toro as well, who is also in

(01:14:56):
Death Stranding as well. It's just Death Stranding is a
game for Hideo Kojima. Just to put all these pals in
just so they're they're, they'rekept in time, like.
That what was that Ave. of hit the Death Stranding or Hideo and
all his friends? That's exactly what it is.
Melancholy is that it's I do I appreciate that that it can be

(01:15:17):
one of those games where you it's it's like a Marmite game in
it. You either love it or you hate
it and that just it's so monotonous and ridiculous to be
to be excited about it. But I genuinely like I have
memories because I played Dash Stranded months before the wee
one was born, kind of late 2019 and 2020.

(01:15:41):
And I just remember like literally playing nothing else,
not wanting to play anything else.
And then now, you know, another transition in life, moving from
primary need, moving from the city primary and attaching it to
something like that as well. Can't bloody wait, Liam, I can't
wait. No, I mean, yeah, it's, you

(01:16:02):
know, when the original Death Stranding had dropped, I would
have been if both of our partners would have been
pregnant, different stages. But then pandemic.
And I think that that almost I just wasn't ready.
Yeah. Like I remember vibing with it
first, you know, that first moment, low Rd. hits and death
stranded. I'm like, Yep, because you don't
be additive as I'm probably going to be more suckered than a

(01:16:25):
pretentious musicville. Let's face it.
It's like, yeah, OK, and I'm in there and I was listening to the
soundtrack and all that's like, yeah, I'm totally here for it,
etcetera. But then the pandemic hits and
almost was like triggering to the point where it's like this
was a bit close to the bone because I felt like that plane
like The Last of Us Part 2, not that I was triggered by it, but

(01:16:48):
it's like, you can understand like, but we're all in a very
different headspace. Then you Chuck in a newborn
baby. And on top of that, I've got my
I've got a toddler running aboutat the same time.
Just wasn't the right time, you know, for me.
And then I went back to play theDirectors Cup as well to kind of
appreciate it with the additionsin there as well, but not a game

(01:17:08):
that I'd finished the Death Strand them they put a lot of I
wasn't there at both times, but not a game that I'd finished
fact I'd played as recently as just before I moved house as
well, because I'm just going to fire this up and might as well.
And when you come back to PT, right, this is where I have my
Scott Curry moment. Brace yourselves.

(01:17:29):
Sorry. It was.
I often see this in less of likethe greatest things I've done on
that. I just got a bit bored and it
kind of felt like I've bought the same ticket to the funhouse,
you know, the the Chamber of farts and I'm just kind of
running through again and again.And yeah, it's just like, OK.
And I understand at the time, you know, that the whole PT

(01:17:52):
concept was cool, but I'm like, let let's not let's not
overstate, you know what I mean?Like, are you really going to
say that that teaser was better than most horror games when
really it was just kind of doingwhat they all did in the first
person and Shelter I. Think the excitement part that
the excitement parts of it like isn't exactly what we're talking
about. It's less about the the game

(01:18:12):
itself and more about the promise of a horror game made by
Hideo Kojima. Like I think that that's
basically all it was. But you're right.
I mean, it was it was decent. That's that's literally all that
is. I mean, there's reasons, there's
reasons why it wasn't made, but you know, and could have been,

(01:18:33):
could have been a load of shite,but.
You would never have got your Silent Hill to remake, yeah.
Exactly, so I can't complain. Exactly.
And you know, we'll move on to that because we're talking about
the future of Hideo Kojima here,new animation horror games.
And that is No, Yeah, but we've got Destrandon 2 and we'll both
be away delivering packages being the Norman read this DPD.

(01:18:57):
And we've got the Lights of OD and Pheasant on the future.
But OD is 1, you know, he's got Jordan Peele who are what,
writing with that as well. It's a game that I don't think
will be either releasing or willbe a game.
I see it being some kind of weird media experience and
that's I don't see this being a fully fledged title.

(01:19:18):
I just, I don't know what that is.
My hunch is just telling me it'sgoing to be like another PT
level bullshit. But it's just like a 45 minute
experience, like a short tale that you play through because
I'm like Jordan Peele ain't signing up for the full length
game. Like this is something I want to
believe it. Yeah, because I want to believe

(01:19:40):
it so much. I've been like, no, don't do it.
Then my pointed. My argument against that is that
it's Xbox now. It may be, it may be Xbox.
Just, you know, give us anything, Mr. Kojima, you know,
give us, give us anything. Even if it is a 45 minute
experience with random face scanned characters.

(01:20:01):
But I don't know. It's it's hard to think about a
future where that exists becauseit's probably going to come out
in the Xbox 720. Do you know what I mean?
So oh, come. On everything you complete in
your toaster. Aye, well, that's true.
Aye. I put on my $900 ROG Ally Z when

(01:20:22):
it comes out, you know what I mean?
And it feels to me like it's very cool.
The partnership itself is very, very cool.
Obviously, I remember at the time a kind of Funny Games cast,
Greg Miller just predicting thatand it coming out of nowhere and
it's like that is the slam dunk of the century.
But you know, I think that's himthrowing Xbox a bit of a bone if

(01:20:43):
it does come true. There's just something about
that. I'm like I just don't see how
I'd also. Think that his Xbox thrown him a
bone as well. Do you know what I mean?
Like one death run and two has done what next?
Yeah, I mean, personally, if it's me, just stop making shade
and just go back and make me OK Sword Kanami is good now.
Do you know what I mean? Kanami and Kanami are fine.

(01:21:05):
Just just go and make that Origins of the Boss story where
you're in World War One and stuff like that as well.
All the all the groundwork is there.
I just remembered it always being like stored past where
they'd gone and done loads of research back in, like, you
know, there, which was the name of the place in World War 1

(01:21:28):
Normandy did went to like they would went to France and all
that. And they've gone and seen all
the stuff there. And it's like they were
preparing for this origin story of the boss and how she became
the boss and the birth of Ocelotin the battlefield and stuff as
well. And it's like how the how the
Cobra unit became the Cobra unit.
That's what I want. That's what we all want.

(01:21:48):
But then fucking Kanami and Kajima shot the bed.
Oh, I mean, I just want to wrap things up on the future, like
because we do have like, I thinkyou're going to get what you
want. Have a prediction here, Scott,
right with pheasant and obviously see more
collaborations and you know, down the line because Kojima

(01:22:09):
loves some swag. You know, if they sold that Dare
strand into a jacket and went out in like minutes and the guy
loves to sell awful looking futuristic sci-fi swags, right?
Because I'm sorry if I wore thatcutting a bit the street.
I'm getting jumped for reasons, right?
But I digress. I think he's going to end

(01:22:30):
because he's now starting to drip feeds this the the hints at
the retirement at the end. You know, you're 61 years old as
well. I mean, he was fantastic for his
age and you would think he's in his 50s.
You know, nothing but compliments for that.
Also, what's after himself lovesa good life, but I think he's
wanting to exit soon. I don't think he's wanting to be

(01:22:54):
doing this when he's 70. I really don't.
And I think that he's going to kind of end things with his and
the home with his fame launched.You can't do Mel Gassord, but I
think it is just going to be like this tactical lesbian as
action, almost like a love letter in a sense to that genre
that he pioneered effectively have created.
You could argue. I think he wants to deliver a

(01:23:16):
lot for the fans and I think he's on that Cove to slow its
rein in this abundance of creativity.
You know, he's had these wild college years now with their
strandedness of that. And he's obviously he's got this
obvious talent for making games fun, which I'm hoping is kind of
central code of their stranded 2.

(01:23:36):
And he's going to bring it back.He's going to bring it home.
And I think that's what he's going to do just as that one
last thing to be like, I'm off out now, peace.
And that's I don't see him doingpheasant.
And then it's like, when's Pheasant 2 coming and when,
Yeah, when's Norman Reedus doingPheasant 3 and all the rest of
that? I think it is very much.
It's just it's always Norman Reedus.

(01:23:58):
Best best of pals, the most random ass friendship, but
that's what I love about as welllike the most random people will
pop up with them and then it's like, do I be in a game?
Yeah, cool. No, it's cool, just.
Fucking do it, Mads Mickelson. Oh come on mate.
My translators just asked me to be in the game, you know what I
mean? But I think he's going to bring
it on home. I really do.

(01:24:18):
I just feel like that this feelslike his pheasant to me as like
the retirement tour. If we look at the Rockstar
element and I think Hideo Kojimais going to go out in a way like
that. I think he's going to.
It wouldn't surprise me if he put something in the game almost
like his retirement message, something weird like that.
It's kind of like thank you, I love you, goodbye and that's it.

(01:24:41):
And honestly, I can see him justnot doing the kind of place to
it afterwards. It's like we invite you into
consumer productions preview game for the view.
That's not to be here. The help of scene from again,
this is something that he's going to just make drop and walk
out the industry. And I think he's starting to lay
the groundwork for that now withsome of the stuff that's been

(01:25:03):
coming out in interviews becausehe has he can do it and the
most, you know, artist way possible.
It's like done now. Please see you later.
I'm away. You make movies bro.
That's it, because that's the other part here.
His influences are clearly from his love of movies, his love of,
you know, music in particular, all forms of media.

(01:25:26):
And I love that you such a big nerd and you actively share that
food as well, you know, stuff that we always gave us
appreciate and that connection that he has.
And he's a taste maker like yourself.
You know, if he puts a a tune out there on his Instagram or
something, people will blow up. You look at that Caroline
Polytech as well, who's doing the theme for their stranding

(01:25:48):
too. She's about to get a wave of new
listeners in this next week, which would be great and just be
rubbing your hands. But really fascinating interview
with her and the kind of Funny Games cast actually talking
about how all that came about. Really one of the most unique
and touching stories I think I've heard in some time.
But yeah, that's what I love a bit.
Could you know though? Like he would just take all the

(01:26:09):
stuff together, like a chef thatjust has an eye for good
ingredients and can get inspiredby stuff that's kind of
presented to him or as he kind of goes through in life and just
make something cool with it. Don't get me wrong though.
Like he can frustrate the love and shit out of me as well.
I feel like there is an element where they can be too

(01:26:32):
pretentious or they can just kind of be a little bit too
weird. And it's like, pull it back
about. But we've all got a director, a
singer, an actor, you name it, the musician someday like that
that does do that I think creative people and don't have
to indulge themselves a little bit.
And he's no different. But yeah, and I want to end it

(01:26:53):
on this, Scott, will there ever be another or is there another?
Could you move? Yeah, you've.
Kajima at me. It's true, though.
Yes, Chris, you've seen, I spokeabout it, you know, last year
talking about Sam Lake. Yeah.
I think this Sam Lake is the closest thing that we have to

(01:27:16):
Hideo Kojima and ever either. Do you know what I mean?
Like on that man is he's not, he's not shy about putting his
own influences in games. He literally places himself in
games like Hideo Kojima. He wants to move the industry
forward in a way. He likes making weird shit.
Like I've seen, I've seen feet in these games.

(01:27:38):
Hideo Kojima. Like it's just he's the closest
thing that you're going to get to it.
And you know, you spoke about Miyazaki before, but I'm sure
there will be like I'm sure we're going to see in the future
even the even guys like what youcall them Neil Druckman and
stuff like that as well. Like they're bigger.
They're bigger than the games that they make like.

(01:28:00):
And and that's the thing whetherit's it's genuinely creating
that now, I think Neil Druckman gets a a fucking share your
right on it because his games are mass marketed and stuff like
that. But I think that if you didn't,
if he wasn't at Sony making The Last of Us, he still would have
made the Last of Us. Like I think that that game
still gets made, just on a smaller scale.

(01:28:22):
And we're talking about it being, you know, we're already
talking about being one of the greatest games of all time.
But we're looking at it as a theone of the best games made by an
ND developer. Do you know what I mean?
Like it's it's, it's still Neil Drachman at the end of the day.
It's just ridiculous. But the exciting thing is this
that video games are so massive that they could come out of

(01:28:45):
anywhere. Like we're looking at Joseph
Faris, you know, already, like he's he's made a massive impact
on it. And his games are just all about
his influences and and throwing like his imagination down on a
paper and it's just all coming together.
I'm trying to think if there's anyone else recently that that
has come out in my head that I can think of there's.
So many in the end, the space, you know?

(01:29:07):
Yeah, that you, you'll constantly this even like I
often have the thought about people that could be the next
potential consumer that just aren't in the right space.
Yeah. Whereas the next consumer, the
next Todd Howard, that type of thing.
Also, even the guys like even those are not one person, but
the people who made like Expedition 33, like leaving

(01:29:30):
Ubisoft and coming together and making that game.
Do you know what I mean? Like sometimes as your
environment that you have to leave to to get better and stuff
as well. And Randy Petchford, you know,
not I'm, I'm a bit tongue in cheek in there, but.
You're at it now. I have to, I have to say the
name just to get it out. I think of who else makes games.

(01:29:53):
I mean, you got Celeste, you know, Maddie makes games as
well. Yeah, like Toby Fox, Toby Fox,
you know, I mean, there's so many out there.
This is what's happened. All the Kajima, obviously, he's
obviously say, yeah, no, he's largely responsible for that
kind of cult of personality, I suppose almost around that,
where you've you've got people that are so invested in the

(01:30:17):
person behind that. And it does have this drawbacks
because it's not just one personmaking the game.
It's a team of highly talented Wizards.
They'll bring these things to life, but he leads them or he
she they lead them into making something special.
They have a vision. They stick with it.
There's Cody Balog, for example,there that you know in Santa

(01:30:40):
Monica. There's so many there Brian ETA
was I'm sitting there playing spider man 2 that you know
Insomniac games. There's people out there are
very different levels, but there's only that real few that
will set the other one side today.
Could you, when you're writing asound like me as Accu is, and
that now for different reasons, He's probably more than like,

(01:31:02):
you know, in terms of the craft of a game, but he's also capable
of creating such deep wretched war, having that vision now and
collaborating, you know, with Big George Railroad.
The exciting thing about me is that he is that does he create
lore or do we create himself? Which is about how ambiguous
everything is in the game. Do you know what I mean?

(01:31:23):
Like it's we've got vaaty vidya to thank for that then that man
is single handedly created lore for the Dark Souls series that
nobody would ever have thought of.
George Railroad Martin. So stupid.
I know, but yeah, I think, you know, to answer my own question,

(01:31:43):
of course there's another Kajimaout there, but there is no,
never will be 1 Hideo Kajima. But on that note, Scott, I think
it's time for us to move on fromthe man, the myth, the legend.
So that means that it's time forthe pixel Pix showdown.
So when each week we each pick agame from a chosen theme and
decide which one deserves to lean on, we'll live on in the

(01:32:05):
Halo Pixel Pix list. He's dying one, then he's dying.
It's I'll definite of list of the best games we recommend and
pass on to the next generation of gamers.
Now last week's team was best game two 100% with Marvel Spider
Man becoming the latest additionto the list.
And then this week's showdown we're debating what best
surprise moments game we think should feature on the pixel pix

(01:32:28):
list. Now the topic itself is a bit of
a surprise because even Scott was asking me what the hell do
you mean by surprise moments. So bit of clarity, what we're
looking to pan down here is the best game that either A,
featured a mechanic or a moment.And there that was surprising or
B, at itself. The game was a pleasant surprise

(01:32:50):
upon release, something that either you weren't thinking much
of when the radar went on, become an old timer, that type
of thing. So as always, last week's winner
goes last, which I believe is you.
Scott, could you put Spider Man on the radar first?
So let's get to it. Now I'm going to keep things
brief here, right? So I've got my honourable
mentioned here, locked and loaded.

(01:33:11):
The my honourable mentioned thisweek goes to Tetris 99.
OK, which is a game we didn't know we wanted a Lady Scott.
But blinding that battle Royale trend at the time with the best
game I've ever made. It shouldn't work at all, but it
did. And I know you lost many, many
an hour on the toilet playing that game.

(01:33:33):
The amount of pins and needles you must have had.
So playing Tetris 99, I can't even fathom it.
But yeah, it was the terms of our surprise game.
There's something that you were like, I didn't actually know
that this was something that I need, but that sounds genius.
And you play it, you immediatelyget it.
And it was addictive as all hellbecause it's Tetris, You know,
it's like, yeah, it's a battle Royale, but I'm ignoring that

(01:33:55):
because I'm just playing Tetris and kind of participating in the
battle Royale at the same time. Absolute genius.
But had to be my honourable mentioned.
But I will move on to my pick for this week and this one here.
Now, it was a surprise for myself personally, but I think
collectively as gainers because if anybody out there was

(01:34:16):
expecting this to come out and be a modern masterpiece that it
ended up being, I would have to get the big old bullshit home
because nobody was thinking that.
They're probably thinking it's asequel to 1 of the best 7 out of
10 games ever made. The game that I'm packing this
week is Alan Week 2. Because again, going in, we

(01:34:41):
didn't expect much. You know, it was the ultimate
surprise of quality. You know, pivoting to a more
survival horror focus than the first ended up being a total gem
and an achievement, astounding achievement in blending media,
storytelling, world building. And yeah, I said modern
masterpiece. And if you had said that to me

(01:35:03):
10 years ago with 15 years ago, whatever it would have been
after playing Alan Wake, the original on Xbox 360, I would
have probably taken you to the local GP surgery to get your
head checked. I thought you might have had it
on something because Alan made to just that.
That's the ultimate. The surprise for me is it does

(01:35:24):
not have the right no, a sequel to that game being that's good,
that will forever stick with me as being the ultimate wild
surprise for me. You know, there's other games I
could have picked. I've got obviously gotta be
conscious of what's on the list here, Scott.
Yeah, that's the difficult thingwith it, because I had the same
idea. Well, like Bloodborne, for
example, like Bloodborne had absolutely no right being as

(01:35:46):
good as it was, but it's on the list already.
But for myself, it's similar thoughts to you, but two
different games. So first, the first one that I
picked is actually something that happens in a game and
that's a bit of a surprise and that surprises you every single

(01:36:07):
time it happens. I know it's not going to win,
which is why it's my honourable mention for this week.
But my honourable mention is actually from pre the video game
and it's the mimics. It's the mimics in the game.
Yeah, every single time it happens, Liam, Yeah, absolutely
shit your pants. Like it is ridiculous.

(01:36:29):
And as a as a, as a, you know, something, something that
happens in a game as a feature, it doesn't happen enough.
And video games like as so clever and it's incredible how
well it works and pre itself just show some love for it

(01:36:50):
because that game had absolutelyno right being as good as it was
as well. But my actual choice for this
week, similarly to yourself, it's not Alan Week 2, but it
goes down a route of it had absolutely no right being as
good as it was and performing aswell as it as and has and still

(01:37:10):
does. And it was a game of last year,
which was hell. Divers too.
Oh, yes, OK. I mean, nobody even before that
game came out, nobody could havetold you how well it was going
to do and how incredible the numbers were going to be.
I don't even think Sony could have told you that.

(01:37:32):
I mean, I think, you know, we'relooking at the strategy now when
you know, it's absolutely shit in the bed.
But hell, divers as the fast. I think it's the fasting
sailing, the fastest sailing game in PlayStation history or
something like that. That's.
Correct. And, you know, making these
stats up on the spot, but as someone who played it as
incredible an experience that islike no other is ridiculous, as

(01:37:58):
gorgeous as outrageous all at the same time.
And coming off the back of Hell Divers, one which it looks
nothing like, which we played for maybe half an hour one time
and witnesses passion, turned itoff to come out with Hell divers
too, and the way that they have,and it'd be this roaring

(01:38:22):
success. It's just ridiculous, man.
Yeah. No, it really is.
It's do not. I think that's a a religiously
good shoot for this week. So I think we have to go ahead
and give it to that because you're right.
I think as much as a surprise aswhat Alan Week 2 was personally
in terms of like wasn't anybody's radar.
And I have to give a shout to play as well because that game

(01:38:45):
is just failed as literally a surprise moments.
The game. Is it the best or was another
question. But I mean, I think about the
opening of that game in particular, which was a total
like jaw-dropping yeah moment, but I'm not going to linger on
that with he'll diverse to your right.
That's just something that just nipped this thing coming and the
fact that still to this day she mentioned such a thriving

(01:39:07):
community, a game that I've not played yet and although one day,
but it's just something that I'mlike it does make you feel like
warm and fuzzy. So it's just nice to see like
something like that happening because you know, the gaming
industry is filled with so many what you think surefire bets.
But I've been there and then every outside comes out of

(01:39:28):
nowhere and wins the national and that's effectively what's
happened to you. Hell divers to him.
And I'm sure you're not going tohave any contests.
But I think, yeah, I'm happy to concede.
I think that should be the best surprise moment game because
that story around it totally encapsulates what we're going
for here, man. So there we go.
Victorious, victorious. 2 weeks now.

(01:39:52):
Roman, I've got to stop you. We'll see what happens.
Oh, oh, sure, he's swimming a little sticker.
What you'll be able to see. So naturally, because we are
going to be coming with some video action, you'll be very,
very soon. Cool things cooking up on that.
But yeah, congratulations to help divers, too.
That is the latest addition to the Pixel Picks list as the best

(01:40:14):
surprise moment game. Scott Curry's on a winning
streak. I've got to do something about
that. I need to maybe just try and
change it to best Assassin's Creed game next week just to try
and game things. In my favour next week we'll
have a special guest joining us as well.
Just gonna have to tune in to find out who that is.
But on that note, that brings usto the end of this week's

(01:40:35):
podcast. So thank you once again for
joining us and remember to support small independent games
media such as a self. So if you like what you're here,
enjoy the podcast, please share on social media and tell your
friends about us or even leave us AB five star review.
It really does help us out. Makes a huge difference.
Now, Scott, it's test time. So where can people find you
online if they want to talk to you about held Ivs too, about

(01:40:57):
Hideo Kojima, you name it. I'm on Blue sky that llama man
dot B sky dot social, talking talking shite and eating chewing
gum. You shouldn't do it.
That's bad. Yeah.
Well, you can find me, of course, on Blue skies.
Well, at Carmelite dot B, Sky dot Social.

(01:41:18):
Well, probably this week I'm going to be tweeting a lot of
stuff about this blockbuster, some other about to head into
Scott. Jurassic World Rebirth is
happening over the next week. So if you want to see my
reactions to that, just just come come with me in the Journey
Rd. there. It's almost for the Super
fantastic July that we're about to have.
That's what we're dubbing at Scott Superman.
Super fans. That's good, actually.

(01:41:39):
Interesting. That's good and of course a
massive thank you to our own super fantastic producer and
music man, the talented and handsome Mr. Sean Murray.
So please go show him some love and check out his work on
Instagram at Bare Hands Designs and barehandsdesigns.com.
And let me tell you, he is cooking something up very
special for you all. And I can't wait for this whole

(01:42:00):
to share in that. And you can listen to the next
episode on all major podcast platforms and follow us on Blue
Sky at Pixel Parents dot B, Sky dot Social.
And of course, wait to us at pixelparentspodcast@gmail.com.
On that tired note. My brain is done, Scott.
It's been a pleasure. But until next time, stay safe.
Stay safe and thanks for listening.

(01:42:22):
Norman Reedus. Feet.

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Episode 66 - Hideo Kojima: An Ode To Gaming’s Genius, Madman Rockstar - Pixel Parents Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 66 - Hideo Kojima: An Ode To Gaming’s Genius, Madman Rockstar - Pixel Parents Podcast