June 6, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of Pop Pedagogy, Melissa and Nichole break down Season 1, Episode 4 of Abbott Elementary, where new technology hits the classroom with zero training and maximum chaos.
They explore the generational tensions between teachers, the pitfalls of top-down tech implementation, and what happens when enthusiasm meets experience. They also dig into a subplot about teaching local history and how culturally responsive education is often overlooked, or watered down, in today's schools.
Expect laughs, critical insights, and a few ice cream metaphors as we ask: What makes a teacher effective? And is tech really the solution to every classroom challenge?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episodeon pop pedagogy takes a good detour.
It's hilarious.
Hilarious, really interesting in termsof thinking about
culturally responsive teachingand how we teach.
Controversial? Difficult.
She has so much enthusiasm, passion,
curiosity, and desire for connectionwith her peers and her students.
(00:24):
It's technology.
The most, you know, the best solution.
I class dismissed.
Remember how scaryyour first days at school?
So I'd like you to be especially niceto tell the captain.
My captain said, go. Mr. Anderson.
Are you going to teach us anythingor are we just going.
To sit here?
Welcome to Pop Pedagogy.
(00:48):
I'm Melissa.
Hey, Nicole. How's it going?
It's going.
It's been a long weekend,so that's been nice.
I've been doing, like,
some home improvement projects and, like,trying to pick out paint colors
for to change the color in my bedroom,so that's been fun.
How about you?
That's so cool.Yeah, I've had a really nice weekend.
I went to a coffee roasting workshop,so it's really cool.
(01:09):
Like spend like almost.
Four hours about thatbecause I feel like that's
related to a projectthat you have in mind for your future.
For sure. For sure.
But yeah, it's been nice and I'm so happyto be recording about this episode
because my gosh, I love, it was so lightcompared to all the recent media
(01:29):
that we've been watching.
I needed it,
I needed it so bad. Okay.
Well, what,what are you snacking on today?
Nothing. Literally nothing.I just had some.
I just had some coffee in the morning,and that's it.
It's so Monday.
You know,
some chips and salsa,but I put it away because, we're not in.
(01:49):
And some our channels.
I thought it would be bestto put it away, but.
And, Yeah.
Yeah.
So we watched Abbott Elementary seasonone episode for new tech.
You want to tell uswhat the episode's about?
Yes. So basically,the main plot of the episode is between,
(02:10):
younger teacherJanine and an older teacher, Barbara,
and how they adapt in the faceof this new technology device
that is being broughtonto the school as like, this is it,
guys is going to help our studentsread at a super, super top level.
It's going to make everyone'slives easier.
(02:32):
Except that it was just like,here's a new tech.
It's easy peasy.
Just press some buttons,you'll figure it out.
So it was hilarious.
It was relatable.
And and yeah,and so I'm so happy that that we chose it.
And then there weresome other additional plotlines to that,
about two teachers who were sharingand it was like a history lesson.
(02:56):
Right?
About. Yeah.
I mean, I think it's a case, right?
Like Jake Jacob, the male teacher,
he says he's teaching about this, like,event in Philadelphia history.
And then I don't think the other teacher
actuallyhas anything to do with his class.
But she was like, oh, yeah, like,that's my neighborhood.
And like, I know the guysthat were involved in that.
(03:17):
It was basically likesome kind of union strike
or maybe more than a strike.
I forget exactly what it was.
But yeah, it was like clashes betweenlike the police and like a workers union.
And it was very recent.
Right.
Like the people who were part ofthat were still like, very much alive.
Yeah. Yeah.Like older, but like alive. Yeah.
And he's teaching it ina very like sanitized way, I guess.
(03:41):
But yeah, I.
Mean I think yeah.
Like he has this, desire to be like,you know, and there was this disagreement
and then they talkedand now there's no disagreement.
The other teacher was like,oh, it's definitely vanilla.
Yeah.
And the teacher was like,
no, like we had to break stuff, you know?
(04:04):
But yeah.
She said, she says,she says that's not what happened.
And if you want, I can bringsomeone to our class who was there.
She says, the chief.
So he assumes that it's the chiefof police, and he says, oh, yeah.
Please.
I want to have the chief in my classroom.
That would be great for the students.
(04:26):
And she ends upbringing the chief of the strike.
So who talks about the violencelike the more?
Yeah, the the pistachio version.
Or maybe that's, like, the best flavorto represent something
that's like a little bit edgy,but you know what I mean.
The not.
Yeah. Not vanilla.Yeah yeah yeah for sure.
Vanilla version.
(04:46):
So but maybe we can getget into that one too.
Because to me that wouldthat was really interesting in terms
of thinkingabout like culturally responsive teaching
and how we teach, you know, controversial,difficult
subjects in the classroombecause this is also an elementary school.
So his students, I thinkhe must be the fifth grade teacher,
(05:07):
because that's a pretty deep subjectfor elementary school already.
So but what did
you think about the new technologythere, like that whole situation,
how they introduce it, how the teachersreact to it, this kind of conflict between
Janine and Barbara and how Barbara, like,tries to fudge that she knows what to do.
That's hilarious. Hilarious.
I, I think I even wrote about.
(05:31):
Yeah, like how I felt likeshe navigated that mistake.
She took it to the till the end becausebasically an a spoiler alert, right.
Oh yeah. It's Barbara miller.
Yeah, yeah.
So Janine who's like the younger teacherand super eager and I think it's like her
first year or she's like newalso newish to the school.
She gets so excited.
She gets super into it.
(05:52):
And she's like yes technology.That's my jam.
I can totally do it. And Barbara is like,I don't even know.
And Janine gets really excited aboutthe opportunity to help Barbara, right?
And she goes and offers help in anot super, not the best way possible.
I thought it was likea little bit patronizing.
And of course, Barbara,
who is you know, I've been teaching kidshow to read for like decades.
(06:14):
I know, I know what I can do.
She's just like pushing buttons.
But the way that she's pushing buttonsmakes the scores.
The automatic scoresseem like way, way higher
than the average of the other teacherswho are using the device.
So in the end, the episodekind of like peak of the episode is
when Barbara is askedto bring one of her students
(06:35):
to show how good they can read, howwell they can read.
And that's when the whole charade falls.
I'm not sure. Right. Facade?
Yeah. You know, falls falls apart.
But she it was so hilarious.
And she was so dignified, you know,and I thought that was so funny.
And, but it was also a reflectionof how these like SPC explanations
(06:57):
and just handing out advicejust do not work for everybody.
It's not just a good way to introducenew technology in the classroom, right?
We've we've seen that.
I feel like they must realizethat teachers on the writing staff
of this show,because they get they get so much right
about the conflicts and like the actuallike challenges of the education system
(07:21):
in, in ways that I don't thinkI see represented and I don't watch.
I mean, elementary,I think because of the reason of this,
this like podcast that we have is thatwhen I watch these types of series,
I just, you know, I,I get into critical thinking about it.
So it's not as enjoyable for meas just like watching something
(07:43):
because it's funny, like watchingBig Bang Theory or something where
I'm, I'mnot like a physicist at a university.
So, yeah, I have no, like, understandingof what goes on.
But after this episode, I thought,oh, maybe I could actually watch this
and enjoy itbecause it seems like the show knows
what it's talking about
in terms of the challenges of the schools,like of school systems as a whole,
(08:06):
and like what's going onand our conversations about education,
because the way they introducethat whole conflict, they,
they like dump this technologyon the teachers.
There's no training.
The young teachers are like,yeah, something I can do that.
You know, Janine's whole thing isthat she's always asking questions,
and this is her chance to know somethingthat the other teachers don't know.
(08:29):
Yeah.
But then even she has a problem with it.
And I think one ofthe things that came up for me was just
how irrelevant this technologyis to the problem it's trying to solve,
and it made me think of,I think, as two years ago, I'm
trying to remember which global educationmonitoring report this is.
I think it's two,two years ago, two years ago.
(08:50):
But one of the the recent,Unesco Global Education monitoring reports
on education and technology,the main thesis of that report
is that there's not enough datato suggest that the technology
that we're investing in is solvingthe problems it's intended to solve,
that it's not necessarilya good monetary investment
(09:12):
to put to purchasing technologyto solve problems
that can be solvedin other non-technical ways.
And, you know, in this case, it's,
it's a computer programthat's supposed to teach reading.
Well, it's the way we teachreading inefficient already.
Does it need a technological solution?
That's the whole question
Barbara's trying to say is that, like,I know how to teach kids to read.
(09:34):
Yeah. And I have been just.
Not with this program. Right? Yeah.
And if we have already good methodsfor teaching students how to read,
then why do we need to solvethat problem with technology?
What good is technology in the classroom?
Well, students need to know how to use itfor the future, right.
So that's like the questionI'm always asking is it's
what is the lesson that the technology is,is teaching to the students?
(09:57):
And is thatthe most efficient thing to use?
Because that's what we seeso often in these cases is that you
dump, device like hardwareor software onto a school, onto a teacher.
You don't train them how to use it.
It gets used for five minutes,and then it gets put in a cupboard
or just sits, you know, takes upspace on the hard drive.
And teachers go back todoing what they know works, you know.
(10:19):
So yeah.
I am reading this, book that talksabout the case of MOOCs, for example.
And they, they share these,
you know, like insights about thebut it's called failure to disrupt.
Okay.
Which is,you know, very, very interesting angle.
And I'm really enjoying it.
(10:39):
I can't remember the name of the author,but I don't have it near me.
But the something that he points outis that,
you know,when MOOCs were originally launched,
they're like,
this is going to revolutionize accessto higher education because it comes,
you know, like from from higher educationinstitutions regionally, everybody
by the year 2020, anybody'sgoing to go be enrolling half people.
(11:03):
Half of the peopleare not going to be enrolling
in a university program in person.
Everything's going to be onlinebecause of the MOOCs.
And and obviouslythat didn't happen. Right.
And something thatthat the author highlights is how MOOCs,
and this
don't necessarily necessarily engagethe population that they were trying
originally thinkingabout for this revolution, because MOOCs,
(11:26):
they realize that most of the MOOCs
that they were analyzingwere being the people who were enrolling.
There were peoplewho already had some sort of,
undergrad education or some sort of,you know, like educational level.
And they had likea lot of intrinsic motivation.
And they were enrolling in MOOCsnot to gain a degree, but
to maybe reinforce some knowledgethat they had already acquired
(11:48):
through an original degree,or that they just needed to level up.
So they maybe they already had a job orthey were in the process of getting a job.
So they were effectivefor a specific types of population
with a specific types of problemsand also specific types of allowances
like access to internet, right, a computeror a good smartphone.
(12:10):
And yeah, and that question about, well,what is, the problem that it's
solving in this case wasn't, wasn'tvery well defined, right?
It was just like,give it to all of the kids.
And the technology will figure outhow to best adapt to each kid.
But there wasn't any trainingor a space to talk about, well, are we
how our what you just said, you know,how are our current methods
(12:31):
working alongsidethese technology can actually help us
to get to the next level, because actuallythe baseline was not even mentioned.
Right?
Was this a schoolwhere kids were having issues to read?
And then the thing that that
caught my attention as well aroundthat is how the use of technology,
the successful use implementationof this technology,
(12:53):
could lead to more funding for the school.
And so the school authorities were very,very invested in these working right?
Because they thought it would improvetest scores.
Right?
Yeah, it would improve test scoresand then it would bring more funding
to the school.
And that is a very real issue, right.
Limits in the educational budgets.
(13:14):
Yeah.
It's it's hard to just make a casefor investing in education
without showing these kindof like test scores as like a result like
this is good quality dictation.
It makes me thinkthis is kind of like a side note,
but it made me think of a conversationI had with my mom recently
when I was talking to herabout our episode with Dead Poets Society.
And right at all,you know. Oh my gosh, yes.
(13:38):
My mom was like,
well, kids these days are out of controlin the classroom.
Like, maybe we need to bring backthat kind of stuff.
And I just was like, okay, first of all,the reason
that kids are at it, like quote unquote,I'm not sure that this is true.
I'm not teaching in American classroomsright now, but like, I'm sure that
the reason for whateverclassroom management issues
(14:01):
that are perceived is not because kidsaren't getting beaten with paddles.
And so then I had to, you know, explain,first of all, when kids are scared,
they can't learn. It shuts offthose parts of the brain.
So corporal punishment isis not good for learning.
It's maybe good for controlling peopleand getting them to do what you want.
But then we're also teaching the kidsthat you solve problems with violence.
Is that something that we want as partof the hidden curriculum of the school?
(14:25):
And then if you think about,
you know, the challenges that
we have, it's really to do with resourcesthe teachers don't have.
The classrooms are too large,there's not enough staff.
The staff have too much to do in the day.
They're working over the amount of timethat they're paid.
And if you look at the percentage of the,
the GDP that's dedicatedtowards education, it's lower.
(14:49):
It's like, I think I like thethis is don't quote me on this.
This is not a real statistic,
but I think that it's like somethinglike this, that the amount of the GDP
that the US invests in education is lowerthan, for example, like Kenya,
which invests more,but it has a lower GDP,
but it investsmore of its GDP in education than we do.
And I don't know thatthat's like the exact country.
(15:11):
But I was looking this up
and there were some countriesthat, you know, you would
Americans would be like,oh, that's a poor country,
but they're actually
investing more in their peoplethan we are investing in our people.
So anyway, those those issuesare really salient to the,
I think, the current situationof the education system.
And I think it's across the board,this question of resourcing,
(15:33):
it's not just the US issueand the question of how do you
how do you invest responsiblyin technology, in the education system?
It's so hard.
Can you imagine being the personwho has to make those decisions,
and there's just not enough datato tell you what, what's working
and what's not.
And all of the edtech companies,especially the for profit ones, are
(15:54):
going to try to sell you their productsand tell you that they're amazing.
Like, we have all this datathat shows that it works, but,
you know,that's going to be self-reporting,
you know, likethe information is going to be
there's there's not a lot oflike really neutral data out there on
which, which, you know, typesof technology work really well to enhance
(16:15):
learning outcomes that I've seen.
There might be someone can correct me onthat if there is, but not that I've seen.
Yeah.
I wonder if it'sbecause there's so many moving parts
right into integrating technologythat meaningfully improves results.
In terms of like test results,
test scores, for example,you know, if we think that as a as the,
(16:37):
the proxyfor what quality education is or should
be, which, you know, that isthat is arguable.
But but but it's still right.
Like we need we need some sort of measurebecause it's, it's the training.
It's the sustainability.
After you introduce the technology.
Right.
In terms of likeare the equipments in solid
using conditions, is the software uptoday?
(16:59):
Do we have the internet, connectivitythat allows for smooth usage if if needed.
Is there training and peersupport spaces for teachers to continue
not only learning how to use it,but really taking ownership
of the technology for their own purposes
because they are, you know,the experts, teachers are the experts.
And then is their follow up to these,
(17:21):
like, you know, to compare a baselinebefore the introduction of the technology
and of after and really understandingwhat are other factors that might be.
That's the thingis there's so many other variables like is
that I guess like my question is,is this program
a better investmentthan, say, hiring another teacher.
(17:43):
Or or changing your methodology?
Right. Exactly.
Like more more professional developmentor like making making the administrative
duties lessso that teachers can spend more time
on their lesson plans or, you know, likethat's the question. Teachers.
Yeah. Is the technology the solution?
Is technologythe most, you know, the best solution
or is it just a thing that we'reinvesting in because like it's a trend
(18:06):
or we think that it's goingto do something when we have it, like,
okay, if we've investedin all of those other things
and that that's the comparisonthat we don't have, right?
Like, are
we investing in all of these other thingsand then technology on top of that,
because we're not solvingthe underlying issues before.
We're like puttinga technological fix on things.
So I bet so did really well.
(18:29):
I mean, this was like it. Was so good.
I mean, there's so much to talk about.
I feel like we could doeven a part two on this one, as
there's also like relationships too,between Janine and Barbara.
Like that was such an interestingand I think very truthful dynamic of,
you know, how it is with
like teacher relationships in the school.
Yeah, I saw that kind of likean underlying theme between,
(18:53):
you know, the dynamicsbetween Janine and and Barbara.
But also the other two characters that,you know, had the other main storyline,
Jacob and and Melissa, the one that wereteaching about South Philly history
was that that peerthose those peer interactions
and that kind of like desirefor connection among peers,
because Janine was eager to show Barbarathat she was also someone like a feature,
(19:18):
that he was worth spending time with that,you know, like, we can
we can help each other.
I want want to be closer to you. Right?
And the same thing with Jacobwhen he invites Melissa
to his class, he's like,oh yeah, let's do something together.
And that is also something thatthat I thought was very nicely portrayed,
because as teachers, we get so much from,
(19:38):
from these peer to peer interactions,these peer to peer collaborations.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I thought that that likeespecially the interaction.
So the interaction betweenJanine and Barbara
I thoughtwas like really like really truthful.
And something that comes up a lotwhen you study like school
based change,like like managing school based change.
(19:59):
Because when I, when I was in grad schoolstudying education leadership,
one of my professors was always like,you need to get the young ones on board.
Know that beginning when you'retrying to implement school based change,
and that will be so enthusiasticthat they'll, like, bring people
along with them.
But you see herethat that's what they're trying to do.
Like that's what Janine thinks she can do.
(20:21):
But because of the way that everything'sset up, she's not able to interact
with Barbara in a waythat's like saving face for everyone,
I guess, is the wayI would want to put it, because Barbara
also needs to have her dignity and
and like honorhonoring her knowledge in the transition,
you know,like she's been a teacher for so long,
(20:44):
she's had successful resultswith our students.
And now you're like,oh, you're doing it wrong.
Do this new thing.
And Jillian's like, oh, I'mgoing to teach you how to do it, you know?
So there, there needs to besome kind of facilitation
where you're like honoring the old waysand letting the, you know, people
who are enthusiastic about the new waysget others to be enthusiastic as well.
Yeah.
And I think that that Barbara reluctanceto, to tech like in general
(21:08):
could be due to a lack of genuinestructure support.
Right.
Something that we saw, for example,happening in some,
in some trainings that we've put together,
is that we've heard
from trainers that they intentionally,for example, paired
when introducing these new,
new technologies,they married a younger teacher
(21:29):
with an older teacher so that, you know,they could navigate alongside it.
And something that I rememberthis trainer mentioning was that while
the younger teacher was had an easier timewith technology and navigating,
you know, the internet in general,the older teacher more
the more experienced teacher
in the classroom, had a better ideaof how students would react to it.
(21:51):
And like classroom management in general.
So pairing them up and workingand having them work.
Together, rotating,multi-directional learning instead of
just making it kind of one sided between,yeah, younger student to the older.
Yeah.
Or one telling the otheror one telling the other.
Like, you know,this is what's best for the children
or this is what the children need,
which is a phrasethat came up during the episode.
(22:13):
But I also, when it's usedwith such authority, triggers me,
goes like, wait, how do you know?
How do I know this is what they need?
You know?
Yeah. Same. Same. Yeah.
So I know we're like coming close to time,but I thought it would be a good idea
to also touch on the other like side plotthat was happening
because I found that so interestingand it just really touched on,
(22:37):
for me, like the culturally responsive
teaching and learning that
it's like so oftenmissing from our education systems
and is being systematically removedin the US through,
you know,this administration's policies around
teaching things
that they don't want people to know aboutso that that are.
(23:00):
Turning them into vanilla versions. Right.
The way that like history
stored in South Americaor in colonized nations, for example.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like, yeah, we canwe can keep on this like
vanilla education is
you know,is what we're delivering more and more.
And it's getting even blander and blander,like we're watering down the vanilla
(23:22):
even when we really need to be addinglike nuts and chocolate
chunks and cherries and.
Yeah.
And it doesn't have to be there.
Yeah.
And just following that analogy, I guessthere is this it's, I don't know, tension
or fear that if it's not vanilla, it'svanilla, it's going to be rum and raisins.
(23:43):
Right. And these are kids.
How can you give them rum and raisinsso it doesn't have to be,
you know, one or the other.
There has to bea tuning into the audience.
So I was just thinking, like,I really lights rum and raisin
ice cream when I was a kid,but I don't think that's really rum in it.
I mean, you know, just like mentionedsomething like,
that you wouldn't give to you to a kidlike Baileys ice cream, I don't know.
(24:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But, you know, like, there is thisfear that, oh, if we don't watering down
or if we don't prevent the kidsfrom learning about this,
they're gonna learn somethingthat their minds cannot process it or.
Or this kind of crude information.
It's not good for kids,which is also true.
That is not the point.
(24:26):
It's not that we don't teach, you know.
You know, it's not either or.
Tunings if it's facilitated.
Well, you know,
kids have to learn hard truths every day.
And the problem is the adults,not giving them
any tools to navigate those hard things.
And, you know, we assume that parentswill do it or communities will do it.
(24:51):
And so it's not an official partof the curriculum, like even social
emotional learning is not reallyan official part of most curricula.
Yeah, but it's something thatif those are the tools that actually
we need to surviveand to thrive into our old age
if we're lucky enough to get there,you know.
So I thought that, yeah, it wasit was a really interesting dynamic,
(25:12):
especially because the history teacheror the Jacob, the teacher who's teaching
these lessons is very,I want to say, like insulting
also about the really likelived experience of the other teacher.
And and I've heard it. Yeah.
And those kids are from that community.
So how can he relate to them?
(25:33):
How can he teach themif he views them in this? Like,
he views their entire
community in this, like, negative waybecause he's not from there.
He's from like a more affluent partof town or whatever.
And he also mentions about how like,you know, yeah, like, I've studied this,
I've studied this, this is something thatthat I've learned about that
I've spent time I've invested time into,you know, like
(25:56):
really trying to learn how to teach it,understanding how to teach it.
So there's that tension as well, right.
Versus, the academic,let's say, experience.
And then living the liftexperience variance.
And that's the thing is that like what we,what we get access to in books,
I mean, this is also like my spielabout open educational resources
(26:18):
and like why they're so important,why it's so important to be able
to contribute and to let studentscontribute to knowledge production.
Because what we have access to is
limited, is extremely limited,especially when you consider
the perspective of things
that are dark and documented,like documented form
(26:39):
like just for example,1% of the internet is in Arabic, 1%.
There's 1 billionArabic speakers in the world.
So what we have access to it'sEnglish speakers
is a vast amount more than like
someone who's an Arabic speakerhas access to online, their knowledge
isn't necessarily represented onlineand it's very one directional.
(27:03):
Does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
From from like the it's fromthe privileged to everyone else.
And we're not getting that other
we are not receiving the other informationbecause it's not accessible.
It's not written down.
It's not translated. It's, you know, and.
It's not included into the schoolcurriculums, into.
(27:23):
Exact.
Policies because, yeah, like,I mean, you know, like
and this also goes into decolonizingeducation system.
Right.
Accepting that as schools is educationsystems are systems
to maintain the status quo that are insome way systems of oppression that are,
heritage. No.
(27:44):
How do you say legacy,legacy, legacy institutions
from colonizing governmentsfrom control, authoritarian governments
from a from a very, very square wayof trying to shape the world, right.
And open educationand decolonize, decolonizing
strategies are so important, to.
(28:04):
Yeah, to power what you just mentioned.
And even South Philly needs decolonization
as far as likerepresented by this episode,
which I thought was just so poignantand like, so well done.
And like, you don't it's not likethey're beating you over the head
with like, critical theory,but they're representing critical theory.
It's such an accessible way that,I really loved it.
(28:26):
It really stood out to me.
And especially like how Jacob comesto, like,
appreciatewhat the other teacher did for him
and understood, like,I mean, for me, like Jacob,
he he can only be a good teacher
to these studentsif he respects where they're from.
And he, you know, he
he respects the communitythat they come from and wants
(28:48):
to understand it,not just from like a academic standpoint,
but from the lived experiencesof the students themselves.
And, you know, thethe families they come from.
And the family's lived through this event.
Yeah.
But he doesn't want to, like,he doesn't ask any questions.
He's not
I think that's the other like
multi-directional learning I thinkis the key theme of this whole episode,
(29:10):
because it's the learning betweenlike Janine and Barbara.
Yeah.
So like the learning between Jacoband Melissa of, you know what?
How how do I improve myselfthrough taking on
someone else's like a perspectiveand lived experience.
In everything that is being broughtonto the students
who are members of a communitywithout that, like exchange back.
(29:33):
Right.
Which also whatwe're talking about having a baseline
before the incorporationof any technologies, right.
Like, do we know where our students standand what improvement
or what better meansfor our particular community?
So yeah, it was it was very funny.
It was very rich.
And like you said, like we I thinkwe could continue talking about this
because I just keep remembering like,oh man, this just reminds me of,
(29:56):
like what my grandpa used to sayabout how schools should start by teaching
kids about their local history,about their super rich,
you know, histories over their superrich territories and, and.
Yeah, and the first timeI, I had, like a tablet like that
brought into the institution
where I was teaching and we had likevery similar, similar reactions.
(30:19):
But yeah, but we need to wrap it up.
I know if you've got a lunch date,so I won't keep you, but let's answer it.
Like, let's answer the questionis Janine Teague's a good teacher?
Yes, I think she is a good teacher.
She has so much enthusiasm, passion,
curiosity and desire for connectionwith her peers and her students.
(30:40):
Yeah. I think she's a good teacher.
Making mistakesdoesn't make you not a good teacher.
Yeah. And she reflects, right. Like, yeah.
The episode wraps around nicely into herrealizing like.
Oh man.
I, I shouldn't have approached itthis way.
Like, you know, I can find a different wayto connect with Barbara.
And maybe I, I was a little patronizing.
(31:01):
Yeah.
I thought everyone, like,
all of the teachers, did a really good jobon reflecting on themselves.
And I think especially Janine knowsthat where she has weaknesses
and is, like,really trying to work on them.
So I agree with you.
I think JanineTiegs is a good teacher and,
I yeah, I think maybe we need
to like, include an episodefrom Abbott Elementary and a future.
(31:23):
See, like, if I remember doing,
like, too many downers in a rowlike we had, yes, I am.
This can be our go to high pilot cleanser.
It's the sorbet.
Oh, sure.
Yeah, sure, sure. Out of the.
The ice cream.
All right.
Well, thanks, Melissa,for watching this show with me.
(31:45):
We did skip off outrooutro school for girls because
we needed a break from the heavy stuff,and that one was really hard.
It was. So heavy.
But yeah, we.
Also want to maybe bring onsome of our friends who have worked
in types of school and Jordan,and also someone from Jordan to weigh in
because it's such a touchy subjectand I feel like I've lived in Jordan.
(32:08):
I didn't work in that type of situation,
so I don't necessarily feel likeI would know if it's realistic or not.
Yeah.
I'm gonna I'm trying to look forwardto that fancy private school in Amman.
She actually taught one of the princesand not the crown prince,
but one of the other kidsof, Queen Rania and King Abdullah.
So, yeah, Royal, you can get her.
(32:30):
We we'll see if we can get her on.
I'm trying to convince her. Cool.
I will do that one.
And that will be our last episodeof the Season of Content of reviews.
And then we'll do a wrap up,and that will be season two.
So keep tuning in.
We've got one more episode comingyour way.
Like and subscribe.
(32:50):
And send those recommendationsfor more more media to watch.
Send us recommendations.
If you're listening to thison Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
if you can give us a five star rating,if we said anything that you liked today,
or that you thought was interesting or,you know, we're working on
(33:10):
improving some of the production.
Sophia'sthought darkness. Any stars for that?
All right.
Thanks. Let's, enjoy your lads.
Thank you.
Nicole, enjoy your day. I.
This episodeon pop pedagogy takes a good detour.
It's hilarious.
Hilarious, really interesting in termsof thinking about
culturally responsive teachingand how we teach.
Controversial? Difficult.
She has so much enthusiasm, passion,
curiosity, and desire for connectionwith her peers and her students.
(00:24):
It's technology.
The most, you know, the best solution.
I class dismissed.
Remember how scaryyour first days at school?
So I'd like you to be especially niceto tell the captain.
My captain said, go. Mr. Anderson.
Are you going to teach us anythingor are we just going.
To sit here?
Welcome to Pop Pedagogy.
(00:48):
I'm Melissa.
Hey, Nicole. How's it going?
It's going.
It's been a long weekend,so that's been nice.
I've been doing, like,
some home improvement projects and, like,trying to pick out paint colors
for to change the color in my bedroom,so that's been fun.
How about you?
That's so cool.Yeah, I've had a really nice weekend.
I went to a coffee roasting workshop,so it's really cool.
(01:09):
Like spend like almost.
Four hours about thatbecause I feel like that's
related to a projectthat you have in mind for your future.
For sure. For sure.
But yeah, it's been nice and I'm so happyto be recording about this episode
because my gosh, I love, it was so lightcompared to all the recent media
(01:29):
that we've been watching.
I needed it,
I needed it so bad. Okay.
Well, what,what are you snacking on today?
Nothing. Literally nothing.I just had some.
I just had some coffee in the morning,and that's it.
It's so Monday.
You know,
some chips and salsa,but I put it away because, we're not in.
(01:49):
And some our channels.
I thought it would be bestto put it away, but.
And, Yeah.
Yeah.
So we watched Abbott Elementary seasonone episode for new tech.
You want to tell uswhat the episode's about?
Yes. So basically,the main plot of the episode is between,
(02:10):
younger teacherJanine and an older teacher, Barbara,
and how they adapt in the faceof this new technology device
that is being broughtonto the school as like, this is it,
guys is going to help our studentsread at a super, super top level.
It's going to make everyone'slives easier.
(02:32):
Except that it was just like,here's a new tech.
It's easy peasy.
Just press some buttons,you'll figure it out.
So it was hilarious.
It was relatable.
And and yeah,and so I'm so happy that that we chose it.
And then there weresome other additional plotlines to that,
about two teachers who were sharingand it was like a history lesson.
(02:56):
Right?
About. Yeah.
I mean, I think it's a case, right?
Like Jake Jacob, the male teacher,
he says he's teaching about this, like,event in Philadelphia history.
And then I don't think the other teacher
actuallyhas anything to do with his class.
But she was like, oh, yeah, like,that's my neighborhood.
And like, I know the guysthat were involved in that.
(03:17):
It was basically likesome kind of union strike
or maybe more than a strike.
I forget exactly what it was.
But yeah, it was like clashes betweenlike the police and like a workers union.
And it was very recent.
Right.
Like the people who were part ofthat were still like, very much alive.
Yeah. Yeah.Like older, but like alive. Yeah.
And he's teaching it ina very like sanitized way, I guess.
(03:41):
But yeah, I.
Mean I think yeah.
Like he has this, desire to be like,you know, and there was this disagreement
and then they talkedand now there's no disagreement.
The other teacher was like,oh, it's definitely vanilla.
Yeah.
And the teacher was like,
no, like we had to break stuff, you know?
(04:04):
But yeah.
She said, she says,she says that's not what happened.
And if you want, I can bringsomeone to our class who was there.
She says, the chief.
So he assumes that it's the chiefof police, and he says, oh, yeah.
Please.
I want to have the chief in my classroom.
That would be great for the students.
(04:26):
And she ends upbringing the chief of the strike.
So who talks about the violencelike the more?
Yeah, the the pistachio version.
Or maybe that's, like, the best flavorto represent something
that's like a little bit edgy,but you know what I mean.
The not.
Yeah. Not vanilla.Yeah yeah yeah for sure.
Vanilla version.
(04:46):
So but maybe we can getget into that one too.
Because to me that wouldthat was really interesting in terms
of thinkingabout like culturally responsive teaching
and how we teach, you know, controversial,difficult
subjects in the classroombecause this is also an elementary school.
So his students, I thinkhe must be the fifth grade teacher,
(05:07):
because that's a pretty deep subjectfor elementary school already.
So but what did
you think about the new technologythere, like that whole situation,
how they introduce it, how the teachersreact to it, this kind of conflict between
Janine and Barbara and how Barbara, like,tries to fudge that she knows what to do.
That's hilarious. Hilarious.
I, I think I even wrote about.
(05:31):
Yeah, like how I felt likeshe navigated that mistake.
She took it to the till the end becausebasically an a spoiler alert, right.
Oh yeah. It's Barbara miller.
Yeah, yeah.
So Janine who's like the younger teacherand super eager and I think it's like her
first year or she's like newalso newish to the school.
She gets so excited.
She gets super into it.
(05:52):
And she's like yes technology.That's my jam.
I can totally do it. And Barbara is like,I don't even know.
And Janine gets really excited aboutthe opportunity to help Barbara, right?
And she goes and offers help in anot super, not the best way possible.
I thought it was likea little bit patronizing.
And of course, Barbara,
who is you know, I've been teaching kidshow to read for like decades.
(06:14):
I know, I know what I can do.
She's just like pushing buttons.
But the way that she's pushing buttonsmakes the scores.
The automatic scoresseem like way, way higher
than the average of the other teacherswho are using the device.
So in the end, the episodekind of like peak of the episode is
when Barbara is askedto bring one of her students
(06:35):
to show how good they can read, howwell they can read.
And that's when the whole charade falls.
I'm not sure. Right. Facade?
Yeah. You know, falls falls apart.
But she it was so hilarious.
And she was so dignified, you know,and I thought that was so funny.
And, but it was also a reflectionof how these like SPC explanations
(06:57):
and just handing out advicejust do not work for everybody.
It's not just a good way to introducenew technology in the classroom, right?
We've we've seen that.
I feel like they must realizethat teachers on the writing staff
of this show,because they get they get so much right
about the conflicts and like the actuallike challenges of the education system
(07:21):
in, in ways that I don't thinkI see represented and I don't watch.
I mean, elementary,I think because of the reason of this,
this like podcast that we have is thatwhen I watch these types of series,
I just, you know, I,I get into critical thinking about it.
So it's not as enjoyable for meas just like watching something
(07:43):
because it's funny, like watchingBig Bang Theory or something where
I'm, I'mnot like a physicist at a university.
So, yeah, I have no, like, understandingof what goes on.
But after this episode, I thought,oh, maybe I could actually watch this
and enjoy itbecause it seems like the show knows
what it's talking about
in terms of the challenges of the schools,like of school systems as a whole,
(08:06):
and like what's going onand our conversations about education,
because the way they introducethat whole conflict, they,
they like dump this technologyon the teachers.
There's no training.
The young teachers are like,yeah, something I can do that.
You know, Janine's whole thing isthat she's always asking questions,
and this is her chance to know somethingthat the other teachers don't know.
(08:29):
Yeah.
But then even she has a problem with it.
And I think one ofthe things that came up for me was just
how irrelevant this technologyis to the problem it's trying to solve,
and it made me think of,I think, as two years ago, I'm
trying to remember which global educationmonitoring report this is.
I think it's two,two years ago, two years ago.
(08:50):
But one of the the recent,Unesco Global Education monitoring reports
on education and technology,the main thesis of that report
is that there's not enough datato suggest that the technology
that we're investing in is solvingthe problems it's intended to solve,
that it's not necessarilya good monetary investment
(09:12):
to put to purchasing technologyto solve problems
that can be solvedin other non-technical ways.
And, you know, in this case, it's,
it's a computer programthat's supposed to teach reading.
Well, it's the way we teachreading inefficient already.
Does it need a technological solution?
That's the whole question
Barbara's trying to say is that, like,I know how to teach kids to read.
(09:34):
Yeah. And I have been just.
Not with this program. Right? Yeah.
And if we have already good methodsfor teaching students how to read,
then why do we need to solvethat problem with technology?
What good is technology in the classroom?
Well, students need to know how to use itfor the future, right.
So that's like the questionI'm always asking is it's
what is the lesson that the technology is,is teaching to the students?
(09:57):
And is thatthe most efficient thing to use?
Because that's what we seeso often in these cases is that you
dump, device like hardwareor software onto a school, onto a teacher.
You don't train them how to use it.
It gets used for five minutes,and then it gets put in a cupboard
or just sits, you know, takes upspace on the hard drive.
And teachers go back todoing what they know works, you know.
(10:19):
So yeah.
I am reading this, book that talksabout the case of MOOCs, for example.
And they, they share these,
you know, like insights about thebut it's called failure to disrupt.
Okay.
Which is,you know, very, very interesting angle.
And I'm really enjoying it.
(10:39):
I can't remember the name of the author,but I don't have it near me.
But the something that he points outis that,
you know,when MOOCs were originally launched,
they're like,
this is going to revolutionize accessto higher education because it comes,
you know, like from from higher educationinstitutions regionally, everybody
by the year 2020, anybody'sgoing to go be enrolling half people.
(11:03):
Half of the peopleare not going to be enrolling
in a university program in person.
Everything's going to be onlinebecause of the MOOCs.
And and obviouslythat didn't happen. Right.
And something thatthat the author highlights is how MOOCs,
and this
don't necessarily necessarily engagethe population that they were trying
originally thinkingabout for this revolution, because MOOCs,
(11:26):
they realize that most of the MOOCs
that they were analyzingwere being the people who were enrolling.
There were peoplewho already had some sort of,
undergrad education or some sort of,you know, like educational level.
And they had likea lot of intrinsic motivation.
And they were enrolling in MOOCsnot to gain a degree, but
to maybe reinforce some knowledgethat they had already acquired
(11:48):
through an original degree,or that they just needed to level up.
So they maybe they already had a job orthey were in the process of getting a job.
So they were effectivefor a specific types of population
with a specific types of problemsand also specific types of allowances
like access to internet, right, a computeror a good smartphone.
(12:10):
And yeah, and that question about, well,what is, the problem that it's
solving in this case wasn't, wasn'tvery well defined, right?
It was just like,give it to all of the kids.
And the technology will figure outhow to best adapt to each kid.
But there wasn't any trainingor a space to talk about, well, are we
how our what you just said, you know,how are our current methods
(12:31):
working alongsidethese technology can actually help us
to get to the next level, because actuallythe baseline was not even mentioned.
Right?
Was this a schoolwhere kids were having issues to read?
And then the thing that that
caught my attention as well aroundthat is how the use of technology,
the successful use implementationof this technology,
(12:53):
could lead to more funding for the school.
And so the school authorities were very,very invested in these working right?
Because they thought it would improvetest scores.
Right?
Yeah, it would improve test scoresand then it would bring more funding
to the school.
And that is a very real issue, right.
Limits in the educational budgets.
(13:14):
Yeah.
It's it's hard to just make a casefor investing in education
without showing these kindof like test scores as like a result like
this is good quality dictation.
It makes me thinkthis is kind of like a side note,
but it made me think of a conversationI had with my mom recently
when I was talking to herabout our episode with Dead Poets Society.
And right at all,you know. Oh my gosh, yes.
(13:38):
My mom was like,
well, kids these days are out of controlin the classroom.
Like, maybe we need to bring backthat kind of stuff.
And I just was like, okay, first of all,the reason
that kids are at it, like quote unquote,I'm not sure that this is true.
I'm not teaching in American classroomsright now, but like, I'm sure that
the reason for whateverclassroom management issues
(14:01):
that are perceived is not because kidsaren't getting beaten with paddles.
And so then I had to, you know, explain,first of all, when kids are scared,
they can't learn. It shuts offthose parts of the brain.
So corporal punishment isis not good for learning.
It's maybe good for controlling peopleand getting them to do what you want.
But then we're also teaching the kidsthat you solve problems with violence.
Is that something that we want as partof the hidden curriculum of the school?
(14:25):
And then if you think about,
you know, the challenges that
we have, it's really to do with resourcesthe teachers don't have.
The classrooms are too large,there's not enough staff.
The staff have too much to do in the day.
They're working over the amount of timethat they're paid.
And if you look at the percentage of the,
the GDP that's dedicatedtowards education, it's lower.
(14:49):
It's like, I think I like thethis is don't quote me on this.
This is not a real statistic,
but I think that it's like somethinglike this, that the amount of the GDP
that the US invests in education is lowerthan, for example, like Kenya,
which invests more,but it has a lower GDP,
but it investsmore of its GDP in education than we do.
And I don't know thatthat's like the exact country.
(15:11):
But I was looking this up
and there were some countriesthat, you know, you would
Americans would be like,oh, that's a poor country,
but they're actually
investing more in their peoplethan we are investing in our people.
So anyway, those those issuesare really salient to the,
I think, the current situationof the education system.
And I think it's across the board,this question of resourcing,
(15:33):
it's not just the US issueand the question of how do you
how do you invest responsiblyin technology, in the education system?
It's so hard.
Can you imagine being the personwho has to make those decisions,
and there's just not enough datato tell you what, what's working
and what's not.
And all of the edtech companies,especially the for profit ones, are
(15:54):
going to try to sell you their productsand tell you that they're amazing.
Like, we have all this datathat shows that it works, but,
you know,that's going to be self-reporting,
you know, likethe information is going to be
there's there's not a lot oflike really neutral data out there on
which, which, you know, typesof technology work really well to enhance
(16:15):
learning outcomes that I've seen.
There might be someone can correct me onthat if there is, but not that I've seen.
Yeah.
I wonder if it'sbecause there's so many moving parts
right into integrating technologythat meaningfully improves results.
In terms of like test results,
test scores, for example,you know, if we think that as a as the,
(16:37):
the proxyfor what quality education is or should
be, which, you know, that isthat is arguable.
But but but it's still right.
Like we need we need some sort of measurebecause it's, it's the training.
It's the sustainability.
After you introduce the technology.
Right.
In terms of likeare the equipments in solid
using conditions, is the software uptoday?
(16:59):
Do we have the internet, connectivitythat allows for smooth usage if if needed.
Is there training and peersupport spaces for teachers to continue
not only learning how to use it,but really taking ownership
of the technology for their own purposes
because they are, you know,the experts, teachers are the experts.
And then is their follow up to these,
(17:21):
like, you know, to compare a baselinebefore the introduction of the technology
and of after and really understandingwhat are other factors that might be.
That's the thingis there's so many other variables like is
that I guess like my question is,is this program
a better investmentthan, say, hiring another teacher.
(17:43):
Or or changing your methodology?
Right. Exactly.
Like more more professional developmentor like making making the administrative
duties lessso that teachers can spend more time
on their lesson plans or, you know, likethat's the question. Teachers.
Yeah. Is the technology the solution?
Is technologythe most, you know, the best solution
or is it just a thing that we'reinvesting in because like it's a trend
(18:06):
or we think that it's goingto do something when we have it, like,
okay, if we've investedin all of those other things
and that that's the comparisonthat we don't have, right?
Like, are
we investing in all of these other thingsand then technology on top of that,
because we're not solvingthe underlying issues before.
We're like puttinga technological fix on things.
So I bet so did really well.
(18:29):
I mean, this was like it. Was so good.
I mean, there's so much to talk about.
I feel like we could doeven a part two on this one, as
there's also like relationships too,between Janine and Barbara.
Like that was such an interestingand I think very truthful dynamic of,
you know, how it is with
like teacher relationships in the school.
Yeah, I saw that kind of likean underlying theme between,
(18:53):
you know, the dynamicsbetween Janine and and Barbara.
But also the other two characters that,you know, had the other main storyline,
Jacob and and Melissa, the one that wereteaching about South Philly history
was that that peerthose those peer interactions
and that kind of like desirefor connection among peers,
because Janine was eager to show Barbarathat she was also someone like a feature,
(19:18):
that he was worth spending time with that,you know, like, we can
we can help each other.
I want want to be closer to you. Right?
And the same thing with Jacobwhen he invites Melissa
to his class, he's like,oh yeah, let's do something together.
And that is also something thatthat I thought was very nicely portrayed,
because as teachers, we get so much from,
(19:38):
from these peer to peer interactions,these peer to peer collaborations.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I thought that that likeespecially the interaction.
So the interaction betweenJanine and Barbara
I thoughtwas like really like really truthful.
And something that comes up a lotwhen you study like school
based change,like like managing school based change.
(19:59):
Because when I, when I was in grad schoolstudying education leadership,
one of my professors was always like,you need to get the young ones on board.
Know that beginning when you'retrying to implement school based change,
and that will be so enthusiasticthat they'll, like, bring people
along with them.
But you see herethat that's what they're trying to do.
Like that's what Janine thinks she can do.
(20:21):
But because of the way that everything'sset up, she's not able to interact
with Barbara in a waythat's like saving face for everyone,
I guess, is the wayI would want to put it, because Barbara
also needs to have her dignity and
and like honorhonoring her knowledge in the transition,
you know,like she's been a teacher for so long,
(20:44):
she's had successful resultswith our students.
And now you're like,oh, you're doing it wrong.
Do this new thing.
And Jillian's like, oh, I'mgoing to teach you how to do it, you know?
So there, there needs to besome kind of facilitation
where you're like honoring the old waysand letting the, you know, people
who are enthusiastic about the new waysget others to be enthusiastic as well.
Yeah.
And I think that that Barbara reluctanceto, to tech like in general
(21:08):
could be due to a lack of genuinestructure support.
Right.
Something that we saw, for example,happening in some,
in some trainings that we've put together,
is that we've heard
from trainers that they intentionally,for example, paired
when introducing these new,
new technologies,they married a younger teacher
(21:29):
with an older teacher so that, you know,they could navigate alongside it.
And something that I rememberthis trainer mentioning was that while
the younger teacher was had an easier timewith technology and navigating,
you know, the internet in general,the older teacher more
the more experienced teacher
in the classroom, had a better ideaof how students would react to it.
(21:51):
And like classroom management in general.
So pairing them up and workingand having them work.
Together, rotating,multi-directional learning instead of
just making it kind of one sided between,yeah, younger student to the older.
Yeah.
Or one telling the otheror one telling the other.
Like, you know,this is what's best for the children
or this is what the children need,
which is a phrasethat came up during the episode.
(22:13):
But I also, when it's usedwith such authority, triggers me,
goes like, wait, how do you know?
How do I know this is what they need?
You know?
Yeah. Same. Same. Yeah.
So I know we're like coming close to time,but I thought it would be a good idea
to also touch on the other like side plotthat was happening
because I found that so interestingand it just really touched on,
(22:37):
for me, like the culturally responsive
teaching and learning that
it's like so oftenmissing from our education systems
and is being systematically removedin the US through,
you know,this administration's policies around
teaching things
that they don't want people to know aboutso that that are.
(23:00):
Turning them into vanilla versions. Right.
The way that like history
stored in South Americaor in colonized nations, for example.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like, yeah, we canwe can keep on this like
vanilla education is
you know,is what we're delivering more and more.
And it's getting even blander and blander,like we're watering down the vanilla
(23:22):
even when we really need to be addinglike nuts and chocolate
chunks and cherries and.
Yeah.
And it doesn't have to be there.
Yeah.
And just following that analogy, I guessthere is this it's, I don't know, tension
or fear that if it's not vanilla, it'svanilla, it's going to be rum and raisins.
(23:43):
Right. And these are kids.
How can you give them rum and raisinsso it doesn't have to be,
you know, one or the other.
There has to bea tuning into the audience.
So I was just thinking, like,I really lights rum and raisin
ice cream when I was a kid,but I don't think that's really rum in it.
I mean, you know, just like mentionedsomething like,
that you wouldn't give to you to a kidlike Baileys ice cream, I don't know.
(24:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But, you know, like, there is thisfear that, oh, if we don't watering down
or if we don't prevent the kidsfrom learning about this,
they're gonna learn somethingthat their minds cannot process it or.
Or this kind of crude information.
It's not good for kids,which is also true.
That is not the point.
(24:26):
It's not that we don't teach, you know.
You know, it's not either or.
Tunings if it's facilitated.
Well, you know,
kids have to learn hard truths every day.
And the problem is the adults,not giving them
any tools to navigate those hard things.
And, you know, we assume that parentswill do it or communities will do it.
(24:51):
And so it's not an official partof the curriculum, like even social
emotional learning is not reallyan official part of most curricula.
Yeah, but it's something thatif those are the tools that actually
we need to surviveand to thrive into our old age
if we're lucky enough to get there,you know.
So I thought that, yeah, it wasit was a really interesting dynamic,
(25:12):
especially because the history teacheror the Jacob, the teacher who's teaching
these lessons is very,I want to say, like insulting
also about the really likelived experience of the other teacher.
And and I've heard it. Yeah.
And those kids are from that community.
So how can he relate to them?
(25:33):
How can he teach themif he views them in this? Like,
he views their entire
community in this, like, negative waybecause he's not from there.
He's from like a more affluent partof town or whatever.
And he also mentions about how like,you know, yeah, like, I've studied this,
I've studied this, this is something thatthat I've learned about that
I've spent time I've invested time into,you know, like
(25:56):
really trying to learn how to teach it,understanding how to teach it.
So there's that tension as well, right.
Versus, the academic,let's say, experience.
And then living the liftexperience variance.
And that's the thing is that like what we,what we get access to in books,
I mean, this is also like my spielabout open educational resources
(26:18):
and like why they're so important,why it's so important to be able
to contribute and to let studentscontribute to knowledge production.
Because what we have access to is
limited, is extremely limited,especially when you consider
the perspective of things
that are dark and documented,like documented form
(26:39):
like just for example,1% of the internet is in Arabic, 1%.
There's 1 billionArabic speakers in the world.
So what we have access to it'sEnglish speakers
is a vast amount more than like
someone who's an Arabic speakerhas access to online, their knowledge
isn't necessarily represented onlineand it's very one directional.
(27:03):
Does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
From from like the it's fromthe privileged to everyone else.
And we're not getting that other
we are not receiving the other informationbecause it's not accessible.
It's not written down.
It's not translated. It's, you know, and.
It's not included into the schoolcurriculums, into.
(27:23):
Exact.
Policies because, yeah, like,I mean, you know, like
and this also goes into decolonizingeducation system.
Right.
Accepting that as schools is educationsystems are systems
to maintain the status quo that are insome way systems of oppression that are,
heritage. No.
(27:44):
How do you say legacy,legacy, legacy institutions
from colonizing governmentsfrom control, authoritarian governments
from a from a very, very square wayof trying to shape the world, right.
And open educationand decolonize, decolonizing
strategies are so important, to.
(28:04):
Yeah, to power what you just mentioned.
And even South Philly needs decolonization
as far as likerepresented by this episode,
which I thought was just so poignantand like, so well done.
And like, you don't it's not likethey're beating you over the head
with like, critical theory,but they're representing critical theory.
It's such an accessible way that,I really loved it.
(28:26):
It really stood out to me.
And especially like how Jacob comesto, like,
appreciatewhat the other teacher did for him
and understood, like,I mean, for me, like Jacob,
he he can only be a good teacher
to these studentsif he respects where they're from.
And he, you know, he
he respects the communitythat they come from and wants
(28:48):
to understand it,not just from like a academic standpoint,
but from the lived experiencesof the students themselves.
And, you know, thethe families they come from.
And the family's lived through this event.
Yeah.
But he doesn't want to, like,he doesn't ask any questions.
He's not
I think that's the other like
multi-directional learning I thinkis the key theme of this whole episode,
(29:10):
because it's the learning betweenlike Janine and Barbara.
Yeah.
So like the learning between Jacoband Melissa of, you know what?
How how do I improve myselfthrough taking on
someone else's like a perspectiveand lived experience.
In everything that is being broughtonto the students
who are members of a communitywithout that, like exchange back.
(29:33):
Right.
Which also whatwe're talking about having a baseline
before the incorporationof any technologies, right.
Like, do we know where our students standand what improvement
or what better meansfor our particular community?
So yeah, it was it was very funny.
It was very rich.
And like you said, like we I thinkwe could continue talking about this
because I just keep remembering like,oh man, this just reminds me of,
(29:56):
like what my grandpa used to sayabout how schools should start by teaching
kids about their local history,about their super rich,
you know, histories over their superrich territories and, and.
Yeah, and the first timeI, I had, like a tablet like that
brought into the institution
where I was teaching and we had likevery similar, similar reactions.
(30:19):
But yeah, but we need to wrap it up.
I know if you've got a lunch date,so I won't keep you, but let's answer it.
Like, let's answer the questionis Janine Teague's a good teacher?
Yes, I think she is a good teacher.
She has so much enthusiasm, passion,
curiosity and desire for connectionwith her peers and her students.
(30:40):
Yeah. I think she's a good teacher.
Making mistakesdoesn't make you not a good teacher.
Yeah. And she reflects, right. Like, yeah.
The episode wraps around nicely into herrealizing like.
Oh man.
I, I shouldn't have approached itthis way.
Like, you know, I can find a different wayto connect with Barbara.
And maybe I, I was a little patronizing.
(31:01):
Yeah.
I thought everyone, like,
all of the teachers, did a really good jobon reflecting on themselves.
And I think especially Janine knowsthat where she has weaknesses
and is, like,really trying to work on them.
So I agree with you.
I think JanineTiegs is a good teacher and,
I yeah, I think maybe we need
to like, include an episodefrom Abbott Elementary and a future.
(31:23):
See, like, if I remember doing,
like, too many downers in a rowlike we had, yes, I am.
This can be our go to high pilot cleanser.
It's the sorbet.
Oh, sure.
Yeah, sure, sure. Out of the.
The ice cream.
All right.
Well, thanks, Melissa,for watching this show with me.
(31:45):
We did skip off outrooutro school for girls because
we needed a break from the heavy stuff,and that one was really hard.
It was. So heavy.
But yeah, we.
Also want to maybe bring onsome of our friends who have worked
in types of school and Jordan,and also someone from Jordan to weigh in
because it's such a touchy subjectand I feel like I've lived in Jordan.
(32:08):
I didn't work in that type of situation,
so I don't necessarily feel likeI would know if it's realistic or not.
Yeah.
I'm gonna I'm trying to look forwardto that fancy private school in Amman.
She actually taught one of the princesand not the crown prince,
but one of the other kidsof, Queen Rania and King Abdullah.
So, yeah, Royal, you can get her.
(32:30):
We we'll see if we can get her on.
I'm trying to convince her. Cool.
I will do that one.
And that will be our last episodeof the Season of Content of reviews.
And then we'll do a wrap up,and that will be season two.
So keep tuning in.
We've got one more episode comingyour way.
Like and subscribe.
(32:50):
And send those recommendationsfor more more media to watch.
Send us recommendations.
If you're listening to thison Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
if you can give us a five star rating,if we said anything that you liked today,
or that you thought was interesting or,you know, we're working on
(33:10):
improving some of the production.
Sophia'sthought darkness. Any stars for that?
All right.
Thanks. Let's, enjoy your lads.
Thank you.
Nicole, enjoy your day. I.
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