September 16, 2024 • 48 mins
Welcome to another exciting episode of the Power Time Show with Matt and Scott! Today, we dive deep into the world of leadership and innovation with our special guest, Justin Graham, a respected leader in the Microsoft space.
In this episode, Justin shares his journey through the tech industry, from his early days working in startups to leading groundbreaking projects at Microsoft. He reveals the secrets to motivating technical teams, the importance of democratizing access to technology, and his vision for the future of AI and business processes.
We also explore the critical role of security in today's tech landscape and discuss some of the latest trends in AI that are set to revolutionize the industry. Plus, Justin gives us a glimpse into some exciting upcoming features in PowerPages and reflects on his proudest career moments.
Don't miss this inspiring and insightful conversation that promises to leave you motivated and informed about the future of technology and leadership. Tune in now!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Power Time Show with Matt and Scott. And on today's show...
Tell me about your business and what's the thing keeping you up at night? My favorite question.
To be great and do great things, there's a level of perseverance and a level
of determination you must have.
(00:20):
And if you only are putting 100% in on the days you're 100%,
you're never going to be like,
I don't think you're ever going to be be great we've got
the key to the city now justin so i'll make sure that next time you come in
we'll be talking with the mayor and all that kind of stuff so i think you've
won everyone from first on this call today get ready let's go unlocking secrets leaders should know.
(00:49):
Hey everyone welcome to power time um i'm here john start again get.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to Power Time. My name is Scott Meddings.
I'm from Microsoft. I'm joined here with my partner in crime,
Matt Noble. Matt, quick intro.
Hey, I'm Matt from NCS Australia. So I run the business application practice.
(01:09):
And I'm a curious soul. So I'm interested in all things AI and all things interesting
people, which is why we started this podcast today.
We have a really exciting episode
coming up as well. We have Justin Graham coming up on the podcast today.
And again, Justin is someone that I've always respected. I remember the first
time I caught up with Justin, I think at a 30-minute meeting,
and we ended up going for about 50 minutes because he was just such a really
(01:31):
interesting guy, a really respected leader in the Microsoft space.
And he's just a great person to have a real technical conversation with and
understand his way of thinking and where he's sort of taking the products.
And I think, Scott, you had a similar sentiment to myself when you caught up with Justin.
Yeah. When did you catch up with Justin for the first time?
Caught up with him a few weeks back or a few months back now when he was over in Australia.
(01:53):
And I have, so I've been in the industry a long time, as you know,
it's pretty much all I've known most of my life has been in tech.
I spent a fair bit of time working for a company called Veritas and Symantec.
In that company, I did quite a few trips over to Silicon Valley and spoke to
a lot of people that do kind of co-startup investing, seed funding people.
I remember catching up with a couple of people that had these crazy ideas for
(02:15):
new CPUs and all all sorts of things. So we were sitting down.
So I spent a lot of time, it was a personal kind of interest for me in tech
startups and how they motivated people and how that whole funding thing and
everything worked in the Valley. So I used to love going back to the.
You know, when I talk to Justin, it brings those days back to me because,
(02:38):
you know, he spent a bit of time at the docker before coming across to Microsoft.
He'd worked at Microsoft before that.
But he's got that real founder mentality, right?
Like the way he talks, the way he conducts himself around, you know,
business leaders and our customers, just fantastic conversations.
(02:59):
And he says himself, you know, the best conversation he can have is,
you know, what keeps you up at night?
I love that. I love that. I love talking to customers and going, you know, what can we do?
How can we, you know, what's the problem we're trying to solve here and,
you know, how can we lean in and kind of help that?
And he personifies that. And, you know, when he came out and he was leading
(03:20):
up process mining at the time, that in itself was a startup at Microsoft,
effectively, process mining.
Microsoft bought the mining acquisition that had to get sort of folded into
the product. and so I spent a lot of time talking to him about that and setting
up the team and kind of got a few great dinners out and things like this.
So, you know, Liam did talk a little bit about sport and it's definitely your
(03:41):
comfort zone, not mine, with a lot of that American sport.
I got an email going, hey, you're meeting Justin Graham and he did his bit,
his bio and he goes, he's like an avid Pittsburgh sports fan and I was like,
oh my God, I'm going to love meeting this guy because I can talk about sport
all day as you know, Scott.
So, yeah, really great guy, really great conversation and we had a really good
discussion. He's going to share some insights, hopefully, about where things are going.
(04:03):
So hopefully, the listeners enjoy that. But also a bit of his background and
how he leads the team and what's really important to him as he's running the team at Microsoft.
Now, Scott, normally as part of our little preamble before we bring on guests,
you normally introduce something AI-related to the table.
So I guess what's your monthly AI trend or AI?
What have you found on LinkedIn or podcasts or whatever your little crazy mind
(04:26):
goes? What have you found this week or this month for the listeners on the podcast?
As we all do, it's core. You do.
I believe that it's going to change the world in a very positive way.
I'm definitely on that side of the fence.
One thing that's really interesting, I've been listening to a few podcasts in
the last week or two around –,
you know, the content and where the content comes from.
(04:48):
And one of the podcasts I listened to was by a company that,
you know, the old flip open of a video or, you know, you'd have a music kind of downloaded.
And if it was illegal back in the Napster days, there's this company in America
that would go off, you know, like Napster and those companies. So.
Yeah, Napster. That's a trip down memory lane. I remember that.
(05:11):
So they're talking a lot about they don't want to stop AI.
They want to be able to generate AI, but they want to be able to do it in a
way that enumerates artists, right?
And I saw UDIO, so they're going after UDIO.
So we've spoken about that on this program. Yeah. And really what they're saying
(05:33):
is it's not the output, it's the input.
You've inputted a whole bunch of songs from our catalogue and you're creating
new songs and some of them sound a little bit like the artist, some of them don't.
But that input that the artist should get rewarded for, and you kind of put
it in perspective because it's a $17 billion industry, the music industry,
and the art industry in America.
(05:54):
And compared to like tech companies
like Microsoft and OpenAI and all the rest of it, it's just small.
It's very small and we need to protect the industry.
And I never thought about it like that because you always see musicians,
you always think it's a really big industry and you think because you see it
on TV every day and all the rest of it.
But actually, these talented individuals do need to be protected.
(06:15):
So I think it's going to be interesting how that model changes.
And it's no different to when we went from CDs to streaming music and, you know.
Spotify changed the game, disrupted the whole industry, they did.
It's kind of like can we come up with some way to enumerate artists if their
music gets used into an AI generation tool that generates music?
(06:36):
And, you know, I think that's how we come up with a sustainable model. I definitely agree.
The other interesting podcast with the CEO, Getty Images, so he was talking
about, you know, his company's been around 30 years and everyone knows about
Getty Images and things like this.
People buy them, companies buy them for ads and all sorts of things.
And he was talking about his point of view about, you know, people that generate
photography and, you know, those sort of things and what the role of AI will play in that.
(07:01):
And they've released a new kind of ethical AI on their platform,
which really allows people to go and generate images, but rewards the people
that have taken the photos that have trained the large language model in the first place.
And I thought that was a really neat idea as well to be able to reward,
you know, kind of the people that created the images that train the model.
So, you know, I think I see a lot of this.
(07:24):
I think we'll see a change in the way that we deal with content and,
you know, I'll probably see a lot more guarding content as well,
you know, paywall kind of security stuff.
Even written content, you know, writing, okay, can I please write this story
in the context of I'm JK Rowling or something like that.
AI is probably smart enough to figure out and start writing some of this stuff
(07:46):
or you're writing, you know, a professional paper, all that kind of stuff in
the context of this person or that person.
So again, it really opens up a lot of doors and definitely something that everyone
should be considering moving forward.
Really interesting topic there, Scott, as per normal. The other one was OpenAI.
I think they actually mimicked Scarlett Johansson's voice and they actually
(08:07):
asked her prior to doing that.
Now Scarlett Johansson I think is suing OpenAI because they did something very
similar to her voice again.
She definitely said no. She definitely said no. So no means no.
And, yeah, it was interesting that that happened, right? So I think – and,
you know, the other thing is too, I think we're seeing – as we're seeing more
(08:27):
advanced tools like SOAR are getting released, not released to public.
You know, maybe some of these tools are just going to get released to artists, right?
And I think Adobe's playing a big role in that space as well.
So, you know, like our enterprise tools, like some of the software that gets
released doesn't get released to general consumers because it's too expensive
(08:48):
and it's not really what they would use on a day-to-day basis.
But big organisations buy it. You know, I think some of these more advanced
AI sort of creative sort of tooling will probably go in that direction over time.
I just, yeah, especially like specific stuff. That's really interesting.
A different way of, a different perspective, yeah, because I think we're just
so amazed by this technology now, but we're not actually thinking about the
(09:10):
repercussions it has on people and all of this kind of stuff,
yeah, people's livelihoods, yeah.
So it's really sort of, like I say, ethical AI and making sure that people don't
get, you know, loss of income and all of that kind of stuff.
So it's a really... It's going to impact you. It's been before like Pixar and all that kind of stuff.
What happens with that industry because you know you can type in sentences and
obviously create video content and animations and all of this kind of stuff.
(09:33):
So it's just a really, I guess, a big watch that's going to be coming soon is
how the industry tackles that and how we make sure that people don't get burnt throughout.
It all comes down to ethical AI and trust, right? And you'll hear,
the listeners will hear Justin talk a little bit about that through the interview.
(09:53):
The other hot topic right now is security, right? Customer security around,
you know, and it was a big, for those who saw Brad Smith, you know,
dragged in front of a whole bunch of people around Microsoft security issues
in the past and what we're doing to address that.
I thought it was a fascinating kind of, I guess, Yes, grilling by Congress in
(10:13):
America in the last couple of weeks.
So I think security is just so important now.
And the tooling, a lot of the tooling is there.
It's about the practice and about customers. Complementing it.
Yeah, classifying data correctly and things like that because we never really had to.
You always had smart people in the organization that would go and check and
(10:36):
see people had really marked something confidential or not. I guess you always
had data leaked through that.
But it's the ease now. It's the ease of going to Copilot.
And, you know, if you've got Copilot right in your organization,
just type in your manager's name and go, show me all the files and show me all
of the emails that I need to action that have been updated lately.
(10:59):
You know, and you throw that prompt in. So you have to do that piece of work
to really make sure that you've got that data classification right.
So I think you're going to see a lot of focus us on that over the next 12 months that's for
sure for sure so let's take a break
and we'll bring justin on in just a few
seconds to enlighten us on power pages
(11:19):
to future direction and his career which has been an amazing career and hopefully
everyone gets a little bit inspired by justin's journey We'll be right back.
Music.
(11:40):
Hey welcome back everyone i'm very happy and at the moment to announce one of
our guests coming on the show today justin graham justin's done a whole bunch
of work across silicon valley I quit working at AWS and Docker.
And Justin, I've had this special effect that we've never used on the show.
And I think it's appropriate that we use it for you. So I'm just going to roll it.
(12:02):
Nice. You like that? You like that? Nice. Yeah.
Nice. I appreciate the welcome. Thank you, audience. Thank you, crowd. I appreciate it.
All right. I've been keen to use that special effect, so I'm glad.
So welcome to the show. And of course, I'm joined here with Matt as well.
But Justin, tell us a bit about yourself before we kick into a whole barrage of questions.
(12:26):
And thanks for joining the show. Yeah, thank you.
I'm super happy to be here. I mean, Scott and I have worked together for a bit
of time and had some fun in my trips to Australia.
So some good dinners. So I'm happy to work with you. So I'm Justin Graham.
I work at Microsoft in the Power Platform.
And I run our Power Pages business. But I've been all over tech over the past...
(12:51):
Gosh, I don't want to date myself.
But let's say it's over 20 years in tech across both large and small companies.
Across many different roles, sales, customer support, field engineering,
product marketing, product management, and now general management.
So I've seen a lot and had a lot of fun.
(13:12):
And I think the things I've worked on have made some pretty awesome impact in
the world. So looking forward to more.
I think there's a great, great big AI world ahead of us.
I completely agree. I'm really excited about to get started in AI and the journey
that's going to take us. I think we're at the forefront of this next wave.
And I think for everyone involved in technology, it's super exciting.
(13:32):
So on that, tell us how you got involved with technology.
How did your sort of career get started and why technology stuck for your career?
I'm moving forward so yeah.
Yeah, it goes, I mean, I think like many, many, many folks of my generation,
I think we, you know, I wasn't there at the beginning.
I wasn't, you know, feeding punch cards into, into huge machines and huge rooms,
(13:55):
you know, in the 1960s or 70s.
But, you know, when the Apple II came out in the 1980s, that was kind of the
first four way I had into, into tech.
And I think, gosh, it was probably fifth grade or sixth grade,
the school I went to where I grew up, got a computer lab for the first time.
And I got to take my first computer class.
(14:15):
And it was all floppy disks. There were no such thing as hard drives at that time.
And we had a project to basically build a program that was basically a set of logic trees.
And I finished that project in like 10 minutes, even though I had never touched
a computer before or whenever I was the first in my class to finish it.
(14:35):
And my teacher called my parents and was like, And my parents were like,
We don't even know what we're like.
What do you mean computers at home? Like, no, we don't have... We can't afford that.
So that was the beginning of the passion.
My first computer was a Macintosh SE30 with,
I think, 256 kilobytes of RAM and an internal 20 megabyte hard drive and an
(15:03):
external 40 megabyte hard drive. That was very expensive.
That was a hand-me-down from a friend. So that was the beginning of the passion.
And then Microsoft hired me out of undergrad 22 years ago. So the rest is history. Thank you.
Awesome, awesome. And I guess, throughout your career, you sort of taken a number
of different leadership positions as part of that.
(15:24):
So for all the budding sort of technical leaders out there, sort of what are
the sort of the skills and traits that you can kind of recommend for them to
sort of get going and started on that career journey to becoming a sort of technical
leader like yourself? Yeah.
I mean, I think for me, my career obviously didn't start out in leadership.
I was a phone support engineer. So I think if I take the formative experience from that,
(15:47):
I learned very early in career how to take my deep technical knowledge and talk
to customers and impart it to everyday people in the world.
And I really cut my teeth on very, very high-severity support cases and things
(16:08):
like that, and big customers very early in my career.
And then the leadership bit really came in naturally.
I was working for a company, and I had an idea to create a new product that
I thought would be additive to the company.
(16:29):
And I pitched our executive team.
I pitched the board and got funded for it. But I didn't have any direct reports, really.
I was a product leader and then I had an engineering leader working on it.
So I learned how to lead first without actually having direct reports.
And then I found out how fun that was to see...
(16:51):
Us come together and ship something and how happy that made the people who worked
on it and how their careers grew and how happy it made our customers and that.
The passion kind of came from there.
And then now, it really, for me, is a lot about working on things that democratize
access to tech, to technology, right?
And I think, you know, power platform, I think, you know, developer tools like
(17:16):
Docker at their core or really democratize access.
So the best ideas can come from anywhere, but it's maybe to make sure that all
the best ideas can get surfaced and that access isn't the delineator of which
ideas win versus which ones don't.
(17:38):
Hey, Justin, when I think about your time at Microsoft, you looked after process
mining as well, which is a really cool product. and probably in the concept
of Microsoft, probably a really small part of Microsoft when you think about it, right?
It's like the Azure engineering teams and all the rest of it.
How do you motivate people on a smaller product?
(18:00):
Like in PowerPages now, it's a bigger product, obviously, but how do you motivate
those technical people to stay in the team,
complete the goals that they need to complete and really change the product
and then align that to AI as well right now.
So, you know, there's so much to get done but I know you don't have a massive
(18:22):
team to like throw at it, right?
Even though it's pretty big. But, you know, interesting your thoughts on that.
Yeah. I mean, I think my time working in startups really taught me a lot of valuable lessons.
I say all the time, when you work at a startup, there's a built-in steel thread
of culture in every startup, which is, if this thing doesn't work out,
(18:43):
we're all going to be out on the street.
Right if it so like intrinsically you
know behind the scenes like yes it's like everybody
wants to win big you know for the company for
themselves for the families and also for customers right like that's that
the like there's a natural attraction to working on a
smaller thing right like more risk more reward potentially
(19:04):
right but also more risk more downside potentially so
so there's all like that steel thread you know
exists everywhere but i think you know the the motivator
behind that is how in what way is
this net new thing changing the like really
changing the world or changing a good chunk of the world
and not in a like organically iterative
(19:25):
iterative way right and if you find like there's been times where i've found
myself struggling to really come up with that i'm like okay then maybe this
isn't the business or maybe this isn't the problem you know that that really
is the most important thing or the biggest thing to work on and then you kind
of move on to the next thing.
But when you can really kind of have a clear vision, a clear thought or view of that,
(19:51):
then you can actually translate that into writing and pictures and a figment,
really translate into a visual of a mission and vision and strategy.
That's what really builds a huge motivator in a small effort, effort.
A new effort, startup, new business, what have you.
(20:14):
Last thing is a culture eats strategy for breakfast 9.9 times out of 10, 10.1 times out of 10.
If someone says, hey, what do you do for a living and you don't...
You can't say, oh, I run a $10 billion business or
I built this thing that's used by 80,000 million
(20:36):
million people right whatever it is right you're like hey i'm working on
something really cool that's kind of that's new we you know we're
like you you the culture of who you
work with and how you work you know makes that fun and
it really makes you want to continue to work with those folks yeah no that makes
a lot of sense i think simon said he kind of wraps up some of that is you know
(20:57):
go find your why as well i really it's everyone ever since the podcast i really
like Simon and some of his teachings and I try and you know put that into my team as well so,
but yeah just just excellent excellent work I guess on on a product that we see.
Really been the central, I think, for a long time we thought PowerPages should
(21:17):
be kind of WordPress, easy to use.
And I think we're starting to see that vision in PowerPages now,
which is great. And I think your leadership is really strong there.
Yeah, I've got a funny story about process mining, Justin. I remember we flew
over to Australia and you can actually ask anyone on my team this.
We caught up and I was quite new to process mining and Justin showed me this
demo and I was like blown away with what you could do. I think it was a co-pilot with process mining.
(21:41):
And I've walked out of the meeting with Justin. I think we had a chat.
We had a bit of a chat about sport and we'll chat about that after as well.
But I literally messaged my entire team chat and I was like,
stop everything that you're doing and look at this process mining video and
we're moving towards process mining right now.
And you can actually ask my entire team. I was blown away with the product and
capability as part of that.
So there's some good feedback, Justin. I was super impressed with that product.
(22:03):
And like I said, we've got some other customers that we're working on at the moment.
And again, Pages. Pages is really starting to take off. We've got a number of
projects going on at the moment.
I guess the capabilities that are getting further enhanced, co-pilot,
being able to build pages and all of that kind of stuff.
So I guess is there anything you can share, not confidentially,
but is there anything you can share maybe to the audience here about some of
(22:25):
the cool things that potentially might be happening in the pages space?
Again, I don't want to get you in trouble, but what are some of the things that
you are able to share on a conversation like today?
Well, I mean, we definitely have some very fun things. I can't share any details
yet yet because there's lots happening.
But obviously, we're really thinking through how to reinvent.
(22:47):
What it means to have business websites or business portals that externalize
business processes in a Gen-AI native world.
And I think beyond the awfulness of the health scare that was the pandemic,
I think one of One of the things that time and history taught business is how
(23:12):
interconnected everything.
We have, do, use in our day-to-day lives becomes.
And really, if you trace all... The car you drive, the materials that built
your house, your internet connection...
If you trace all that back to the businesses that run those things and the people
(23:32):
that operate those businesses, there's so many interconnected business processes,
not just within companies, within a single company entity,
but between multiple company entities coming together. other.
If you just think what it takes to get a vehicle to a showroom and into your garage,
that vehicle is the culmination of hundreds of interconnected business processes
(23:58):
between very likely even hundreds of different companies and parts suppliers.
So from the process mining bit, that's actually what got me super interested
in process mining and taking on that business.
Because in previous life, I'd worked closely in like automotive and some other
manufacturing supply chain related business areas of the world.
(24:20):
And it just shocked me continually how interconnected those things were.
So that's what I was like, we've got like, man, if we can make the processes
hum on their own and the intelligence from those readily available to anyone in the process,
then we've basically democratized the ability to process improve to anybody.
(24:40):
Right it not just like a handful of
people and i think pages builds
on top of that because the like the
way someone can securely interact with a business partner that's not a part
of their business entity whether it's you know forms you know or elsewhere is
(25:01):
really important to how to getting things built and getting things done so it's
actually my end plus with a much wider I think,
a much wider blast radius in terms of numbers of people that will be positively affected.
And many people just forget the websites you interact with. I can't name any on this call.
(25:22):
But if I name two or three websites, very large ones that are running on pages
that many people use every day, people would be shocked.
So it's a fun place to be.
You know what's really interesting about what you just said?
Matt and I talk a lot about Gen AI kind of replacing quite a few Power Apps use cases, right?
(25:47):
So you think about it, I always use the old annually PTO example.
Are you going to go to an app for that or are you just going to go to your copilot
and go, hey, could you book a holiday for me for two weeks?
And it will automatically go into our systems and go and do that.
But PowerPages is different. I see that as the front door to Gen.AI and what
(26:09):
I mean by that, I was watching one of our internal company strategy demos last week, I think.
And one of the demos involved having OpenAI be able to add something to a cart, right?
Which is kind of the first time we're seeing this whole actionable AI kind of journey.
But that sits on PowerPages. So having an AI-generated kind of chatbot controlling
(26:33):
the PowerPages experience, that's something new.
And I think if we can really crack that, PowerPages becomes the front door in
my book to that experience and think about how we would – no more clicking through PowerPages, right?
Let's just ask a bot to go and do stuff. I think it's really interesting.
Is your team kind of thinking through this? I guess you would be, right?
(26:55):
It's uh it's kind of the future yeah because
in many ways the way our customers use
us you know is as a front door to
a business process where there's a mutual exchange of
value right but how do you do that
like it's it's different it's a little
different than like just going to
(27:18):
a certain website for for information right if
that which there is an exchange of value there in some
way like like but but from a different
perspective if if that exchange of
value you know nets a a necessary service and that like there's many customers
that are in the public sector that use pages you know as a front door to a business
(27:42):
process for a public service right that like i take that pretty very seriously
as a you know you know we all pay taxes and we all want to live in
a great society, you know, across the world, like public services,
you know, and the ease of access to those public services at full bore is a
really important, you know, sort of baseline for, for any high functioning,
(28:03):
you know, highly functioning society.
So we like the, and the more we can make that easier and more efficient and
increase the access, which I actually think some of the, you know,
co-pilot and agentic, um,
Things that we're thinking about is really a method to level the playing field
(28:24):
on access to a bunch of different things, right? So I'll give you one example.
Just as one thing, like a canonical example we've been using internally to kind
of help us think through.
Passport renewal, right? Or even simpler, driver's license renewal.
Or I think in most countries where there's vehicles, in Washington State, we call them tabs.
(28:45):
But it's effectively renewing the registration of your motor vehicle right every year it's like
we all for me the issue
like the issue is that the fact that i have to do like i know i know i
have to do it i know when i have to do it i know all the things i
need to do to do it i know the steps i need to take to do it time is actually
the the hardest part about this right it's you know especially when it comes
(29:10):
to something like passport renewal like lots of questions and necessary questions
that you have to answer lots of data you have to gather you have to sit down,
long multi-step forms and like you know
you know i would love like i would love a personal justin agent that like had
secure access to all of justin's person justin's information in a secure store
(29:32):
that no one else can access to but you know but justin and justin's agent and
like when that passport renewal time came up,
I could actually assign my agent to do that on my behalf, right?
It knows all the countries I've visited in the past five years.
It knows where I live now.
(29:53):
If I've been at that address for two or more years, do I need a previous address?
How long was I there? Where do I work? What's my title?
All these things that you need to fill out, right? What's my tax ID number?
All those things, right?
I know all that stuff. but I just like the hour and a half to sit down and type
(30:13):
all that in is, is really the thing, right?
The, if the agent knows when it's, when I need to, when I need,
when it needs to be renewed, it knows what the deadlines are.
It can schedule, you know, it can schedule itself to do it. You know,
like, and that's a microcosm example, but it's a canonical example.
But if you extend that type of example to all the things that like people need
(30:36):
need to interact with a business for or even businesses need to interact with
other businesses for right but like hey we're a supplier to i'm a company a
i'm a supplier to company b,
you know company b knows when
its inventory is running low on the thing i supply they have an agent that knows
that that agent sends me like hey by the way like we're getting my agent knows
(31:00):
what to do when that happens or it's watched the patterns for the past 10 years
and knows approximately it's every seven weeks i mean like there's so much possibility,
for how these types of things can really help streamline the world so.
I'm thinking like access as you're talking through that, Justin,
(31:22):
like accessibility as well.
Like imagine trying to do all that if you can't read or, you know,
you can't communicate or maybe you've got some sort of handicap.
Like this Copilot technology on pages could really change people's lives for
the better. Like just phenomenal.
That's how I see it. That's how I see it. So that's why it's fun to work on
(31:47):
this and the democratization of access to this type of technology is something
I'm really passionate about.
Completely agree. And for someone who just renewed their license,
Justin, I wish I had a Matt agent three weeks ago because I can definitely...
The world's not ready for two Matts. The world's not ready.
And all of this kind of stuff. I'm just rushing to get it done.
(32:08):
The Matt agent. We're not ready yet. We're not ready yet. A family agent,
like, you know, scheduling the kids being camp scheduled, like baseball,
like, you know, I mean, if you have kids, you're like, okay,
you're trying to get your kids into sports.
Those sports open up and the registration opens up. You got to sign up.
There's deadline, like, you know, there's just, there's so much,
you know, we're all juggling in our lives, right?
(32:31):
You know, like, it would just be awesome to have, you know, to have some help, right?
My wife would totally get the family agent and it would be rude to be in a second.
I think it would be start telling me what to do and go, don't talk to me like that. You need to go.
Golf booking agent. I don't know. They can be powerful, yeah.
What do you mean you want to go play golf? No, you're not doing that today.
I'm not booking that in for you. That's not happening.
(32:53):
There we go. Time to take the kids to the park, yeah.
I've got a great question, Justin, and this is probably pretty timely,
but security is top, right? How important is security to you and your team?
I'm sure we get to number one.
Priority zero. Priority zero. So, I mean, there's been lots,
(33:15):
lots in the market, like lots in the, in the, in the public space around, around that.
But, you know, the, the continuing commitment to security and even heightened
commitment is, is, is super important because, you know, as I mentioned before,
like if we kind of marry these two conversations up in a bit, right?
The personal MAT agent is only compelling if the personal data of MAT is only
(33:40):
accessible to the MAT agent and MAT himself.
If it's accessible to everybody in the world, all of a sudden the value proposition
of the MAT agent isn't as high.
You'd rather do it yourself by hand and take the extra time.
Right so it's just an important reminder of
like all the value in the world all the new features in
(34:03):
the world all the new whiz bangs and shiny objects in the world the value proposition
can immediately you know deteriorate if if the fundamentals you know aren't
there behind it so we we spend i mean right before this call i was on a call
really working with my team on how we,
how we even step our step up the game even more yeah it makes sense and i think
(34:26):
trust is going to to be the single most in trust and security the two most important
things moving forward in ai i was just going to go swing swing the conversation
back a little bit to your career at microsoft and,
one of the questions that we had for you was proud moments in your career have
you got anything you can share that really is probably i don't know maybe your
(34:46):
number one number two proud moment of microsoft or could be anywhere really
so so so i think the proudest moment was this was february of 2008,
I did the first,
launch demo of Hyper-V and Windows Server 2008 on stage with Steve Bomer.
(35:06):
And I was a lot younger then and a lot more earlier in my career at that point.
So that was sort of a... I'm going to find that footage. I'm totally going to
find that footage for you.
I'm hoping it still exists somewhere in the ether of online video, video storage.
But that was literally months into my first product job after coming out of the field.
(35:35):
And I had done a lot of work in the field on Windows Server and the beginnings of Hyper-V.
So that was a really fun, fun seminal moment in my career. And I think if I had to pick another...
So last year at Ignite, we kind of revealed some of the goodness that was coming
(36:00):
from... No, not Ignite. Sorry.
Inspire. Inspire. Last summer, which is different than Ignite.
Inspire is kind of our conference at the beginning of every year where we kick
off with partners, where we...
The first real big reveal of some of the great stuff that we were doing in process
mining and how it was going to pair together with Gen AI concepts to deliver
(36:22):
some really valuable, groundbreaking things.
And sort of watching, I wasn't there in person, but watching it on video and
our CEO kind of announcing that and talking about it.
And then a demo being done right after that was a pretty awesome moment,
given I, and a core member of that team, I've been with it since almost the beginning.
(36:43):
In fact, there were members of the team even before me that were literally there
from the very beginning of an email on this idea years ago to now that.
So you can never beat that feeling of that 0 to 1 or 0 to 10 reveal.
It's like a proud parent moment taking this idea through and now it's on stage
(37:03):
and everyone's talking about it. Imagine what it's like.
I'm a bit disappointed you didn't go with going to Australia.
I thought that would have been right up there.
Say that it's actually my trip to perth yeah
this was awesome man i'd like that's my
home that's my home so many i'm not losing so yeah i
(37:26):
loved it i mean i i've been to australia like
seven or eight times and and i that was my first time
to perth and i mean i just
remember on even on approach with the airplane landing i
was looking around like this place is beautiful like just
you know and uh i mean just just super great
hospitality i went to i think i had dinner on the beach one of
(37:47):
the first nights you know yeah it was
amazing and you know when i
like one of the funnest parts of this job i mean you've not a question you ask
but what like one of the funnest parts of this job is interact like sitting
down in a meeting in front of a customer you've never met before and asking
the question like tell me like tell me about your business and what's What's
(38:09):
the thing keeping you up at night? My favorite question.
And I got to meet with some companies in Perth and, and, and through these meetings,
I kind of got to learn a different, a different, you know, part of the world
I'd never been exposed to, which is like, how do, you know, I have an electric car.
I have an, you know, I have a mobile, I have a mobile phone, right.
(38:31):
I've got, you know, I just, I just kind of refreshed my laptops in my house
with Razer gaming laptops, which is what I'm on.
I'm on now. It's like, I've got Razer, Chroma, flashing lights everywhere.
Where I'm a little bit of a geek in that way, you know.
But I got to learn like the materials that are in my phone,
like where did those actually start and how did they get from that into my S
(38:58):
24 ultra, you know, in my hand that I, that I basically run my life.
Right. And then, and then through that in the whole supply, like I just,
I just got to learn so much that I never even knew or thought about in that realm.
And to me, that's some of the funnest parts of the job.
(39:19):
And then to hear our Microsoft teams that work with those customers give more
history and then give their history working with those customers and then how
our software in the past...
I mean, those are some of the most fun things. And those don't...
Those get spoken about a lot because like, oh, the... Even I was like,
the big sexy demo on stage or the reveal by our CEO.
(39:44):
But it's actually... Those things are like one moment in time,
one day or one week in a lifetime.
But it's those day-to-day, week-to-week moments of meeting someone you've never
met in a different walk of life,
in a different business world or what have you, teaching you another wrinkle
about how this world we live in all kind of fits together from a different it's most fun.
(40:10):
Of course, that took you to legend status because in the background while your
trip was getting planned, I remember my manager coming to me,
Angie, and she said, oh, Justin's going to Perth. I said, well,
I don't want to go to Perth. It's from the US.
How does that mean? You're the mayor of Perth now, Justin. For those listeners
that don't know, it's like a four-hour flight with a three-hour time zone difference
when you came out because of daylight savings.
(40:32):
And it's like literally flying to another country if you're in another country.
So most product managers that come out from the U.S. to Australia,
they just don't have time in the schedule to head over to Perth and do some meetings and come back.
So we really appreciated it that you went to Perth because we really need to go to Perth more.
And so, yeah, so it was fantastic. So thank you. You bet. I mean, that's what I'm saying.
(40:53):
I'm like, by the way, like, if we all still want these – I'm waving at 24.
But, like, if we still want these things to continue to evolve and,
I mean, And, you know, there are so many parts of the world that are so critical
to how we live our everyday lives that 99% of people will never know or never hear of.
(41:15):
But, like, that number needs to be, like, a lot less than 99%, right?
Like, if we all truly understood how things that we depend on actually happen,
like, the whole perspective and how the world, the citizenry of the world contribute to that, right?
From many different angles, we'd all be better off for it.
(41:36):
We've got the key to the city now, Justin. So I'll make sure that next time
you come in, we'll hook you up with the mayor and all that kind of stuff. I would love it.
Everyone from Perth on this call today.
There's also an amazing golf course. It's one of the best golf courses in the
world at Perth, Jindalup. So if you ever want to have a hit, amazing.
It's got one of the best holes rated globally. Okay.
It's the quarry course. I mean, given how my office is decorated,
(42:02):
I am a huge golf nut. So I will be packing my clubs and they will be making
me 8,000-mile trip next time.
Definitely, definitely. I've got a couple of sport questions to ask you.
I know you're a sport nut like myself.
Oh, yeah. I know the Pittsburgh Steelers have made some interesting off-season
acquisitions. Obviously, Russell Wilson and Justin Fields.
(42:23):
I guess my first question for you is who's going to be the starting quarterback
at the end of the season? Oh, I've seen it.
I know Russell's probably going to start.
I think that's what Mike Tomlin has said. but there's probably
a steak dinner which we should put on this one
i mean we should do it yeah yeah i i think it
will be justin fields and i and in fact i'm
(42:44):
really rooting for justin fields i you know i
mean i don't know him personally but but you know so i'm a
fan like anybody else i read the internet like everybody else but
yeah but i just think the way the way the steelers play ball the way our organization
likes to play ball and and like i think he's a he can be the perfect quarterback
for what the Pittsburgh Steelers almost like Lamar Jackson a lot yeah kind of deals yes Coco.
(43:12):
My next question is, we're on Augusta. We're going to the 18th hole.
You've got to pick a golfer that's going to basically win the tournament for
you. Who are you picking out of your wide array of golfers that you follow quite closely?
I'm always picking Tiger. I'm always sticking with Tiger.
I mean, in so many ways, actually, Tiger Woods is the reason I even play golf. I even got started.
(43:37):
We're not that far apart in age either. So it's, it's one of the few examples
of like, you know, even I don't tend to idolize, I'm not like a type of person
that tends to idolize other humans.
You know, I just think like, we're all, we're all people, we bring different things to the table.
But, but what, you know, what Tiger has been able to do in his career has been,
(43:58):
it's been pretty transformative, and really, like, has, you know,
has inspired a bunch of people that would never have thought before to play to play this sport.
So, uh, in fact, I, I learned like, this is a little secret.
I couldn't afford golf lessons when I, my dad brought me my first set of clubs
on my call, my college graduation. I couldn't afford to take lessons at the time.
(44:20):
So I actually learned to swing a golf club by standing in my living room,
watching tiger play in tournaments.
And when he would swing, I would, I would like when I would pause it,
when he set up to the ball, and I try to look at how he was gripping the club,
I learned making the interlock and then like how he turned it.
I learned how to swing a golf club by just watching Tiger and pausing and replaying
(44:44):
and imitating it in my living room and then trying to go out to the range and try to practice that.
So always Tiger. Always Tiger.
Do you have a favorite Tiger moment? There's so many.
There's obviously the iconic Nike ball going in, basically stopping at the swoosh
(45:06):
and then going in after this ridiculous putt at the Masters,
but is there one sort of iconic Tiger moment that you just went,
wow, this is the one? The win on the broken leg.
The win on the broken leg. There's many moments. I think there's a Curt Schilling
moment if you're a baseball fan.
If you're a Red Sox fan, everyone remembers the bloody sock.
Curt Schilling moment in the playoffs that led to breaking the curse.
(45:31):
There's many American football stories, soccer stories.
To me, that was every... For two days, every swing he took, he was grimacing,
limping, you know and still managed to win the
tournament so to me i'm like well that's a little bit of
a lesson of like you know we don't all
(45:51):
feel our best every day if you're sick if you're truly sick and
injured you're truly sick and injured but like there's a level of you know to
be great and do great things there's a level of perseverance and a level of
you know a level of determination you must have and if you only are putting
100 in on the days you're 100 you're never gonna be like I don't think you're ever going to be great.
(46:14):
Yeah, definitely agree. Definitely agree. So me and you can probably talk about
sports all day, but I'll save the rest of it for MPPC.
But a huge thank you for joining us on the show today.
Really looking forward to catching up in September and having a great conference
and a nice little discussion.
But again, thank you so much for joining us on Power Time. We really do appreciate
you coming in and spending some time with us and sharing a lot of your learnings. You bet.
(46:36):
Great fun. And I look forward to my next trip to Australia. Oh,
yeah. So hopefully, we'll get this here.
And to Perth and Justin, I look forward to catching up. Yes, it is.
It could be summer in Seattle by that time. It's not summer now,
but it should be summer by that point.
Music.
(46:59):
Hey, that's a wrap for today. Thanks so much for everyone for listening to our
podcast. Just a few reminders.
So we've set up a LinkedIn page. So we'll endeavor to put some updates on that
LinkedIn page. So go on there and click follow for us.
Also, don't forget to go to powertime.au and subscribe to our newsletter.
And lastly, if you could please click follow on this podcast so you get the
(47:22):
latest episodes as they come out.
We're trying to get the podcasts out every two to three weeks.
So there should be a good cadence with a whole bunch of new guests coming on.
Now, lastly, don't forget that the views on this podcast are not the views of
MCS or Microsoft, top, but they're the views of Matt and I and our guests.
Thanks again. See you. Can't wait to see you on the next podcast.
(47:42):
Music.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Power Time Show with Matt and Scott. And on today's show...
Tell me about your business and what's the thing keeping you up at night? My favorite question.
To be great and do great things, there's a level of perseverance and a level
of determination you must have.
(00:20):
And if you only are putting 100% in on the days you're 100%,
you're never going to be like,
I don't think you're ever going to be be great we've got
the key to the city now justin so i'll make sure that next time you come in
we'll be talking with the mayor and all that kind of stuff so i think you've
won everyone from first on this call today get ready let's go unlocking secrets leaders should know.
(00:49):
Hey everyone welcome to power time um i'm here john start again get.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to Power Time. My name is Scott Meddings.
I'm from Microsoft. I'm joined here with my partner in crime,
Matt Noble. Matt, quick intro.
Hey, I'm Matt from NCS Australia. So I run the business application practice.
(01:09):
And I'm a curious soul. So I'm interested in all things AI and all things interesting
people, which is why we started this podcast today.
We have a really exciting episode
coming up as well. We have Justin Graham coming up on the podcast today.
And again, Justin is someone that I've always respected. I remember the first
time I caught up with Justin, I think at a 30-minute meeting,
and we ended up going for about 50 minutes because he was just such a really
(01:31):
interesting guy, a really respected leader in the Microsoft space.
And he's just a great person to have a real technical conversation with and
understand his way of thinking and where he's sort of taking the products.
And I think, Scott, you had a similar sentiment to myself when you caught up with Justin.
Yeah. When did you catch up with Justin for the first time?
Caught up with him a few weeks back or a few months back now when he was over in Australia.
(01:53):
And I have, so I've been in the industry a long time, as you know,
it's pretty much all I've known most of my life has been in tech.
I spent a fair bit of time working for a company called Veritas and Symantec.
In that company, I did quite a few trips over to Silicon Valley and spoke to
a lot of people that do kind of co-startup investing, seed funding people.
I remember catching up with a couple of people that had these crazy ideas for
(02:15):
new CPUs and all all sorts of things. So we were sitting down.
So I spent a lot of time, it was a personal kind of interest for me in tech
startups and how they motivated people and how that whole funding thing and
everything worked in the Valley. So I used to love going back to the.
You know, when I talk to Justin, it brings those days back to me because,
(02:38):
you know, he spent a bit of time at the docker before coming across to Microsoft.
He'd worked at Microsoft before that.
But he's got that real founder mentality, right?
Like the way he talks, the way he conducts himself around, you know,
business leaders and our customers, just fantastic conversations.
(02:59):
And he says himself, you know, the best conversation he can have is,
you know, what keeps you up at night?
I love that. I love that. I love talking to customers and going, you know, what can we do?
How can we, you know, what's the problem we're trying to solve here and,
you know, how can we lean in and kind of help that?
And he personifies that. And, you know, when he came out and he was leading
(03:20):
up process mining at the time, that in itself was a startup at Microsoft,
effectively, process mining.
Microsoft bought the mining acquisition that had to get sort of folded into
the product. and so I spent a lot of time talking to him about that and setting
up the team and kind of got a few great dinners out and things like this.
So, you know, Liam did talk a little bit about sport and it's definitely your
(03:41):
comfort zone, not mine, with a lot of that American sport.
I got an email going, hey, you're meeting Justin Graham and he did his bit,
his bio and he goes, he's like an avid Pittsburgh sports fan and I was like,
oh my God, I'm going to love meeting this guy because I can talk about sport
all day as you know, Scott.
So, yeah, really great guy, really great conversation and we had a really good
discussion. He's going to share some insights, hopefully, about where things are going.
(04:03):
So hopefully, the listeners enjoy that. But also a bit of his background and
how he leads the team and what's really important to him as he's running the team at Microsoft.
Now, Scott, normally as part of our little preamble before we bring on guests,
you normally introduce something AI-related to the table.
So I guess what's your monthly AI trend or AI?
What have you found on LinkedIn or podcasts or whatever your little crazy mind
(04:26):
goes? What have you found this week or this month for the listeners on the podcast?
As we all do, it's core. You do.
I believe that it's going to change the world in a very positive way.
I'm definitely on that side of the fence.
One thing that's really interesting, I've been listening to a few podcasts in
the last week or two around –,
you know, the content and where the content comes from.
(04:48):
And one of the podcasts I listened to was by a company that,
you know, the old flip open of a video or, you know, you'd have a music kind of downloaded.
And if it was illegal back in the Napster days, there's this company in America
that would go off, you know, like Napster and those companies. So.
Yeah, Napster. That's a trip down memory lane. I remember that.
(05:11):
So they're talking a lot about they don't want to stop AI.
They want to be able to generate AI, but they want to be able to do it in a
way that enumerates artists, right?
And I saw UDIO, so they're going after UDIO.
So we've spoken about that on this program. Yeah. And really what they're saying
(05:33):
is it's not the output, it's the input.
You've inputted a whole bunch of songs from our catalogue and you're creating
new songs and some of them sound a little bit like the artist, some of them don't.
But that input that the artist should get rewarded for, and you kind of put
it in perspective because it's a $17 billion industry, the music industry,
and the art industry in America.
(05:54):
And compared to like tech companies
like Microsoft and OpenAI and all the rest of it, it's just small.
It's very small and we need to protect the industry.
And I never thought about it like that because you always see musicians,
you always think it's a really big industry and you think because you see it
on TV every day and all the rest of it.
But actually, these talented individuals do need to be protected.
(06:15):
So I think it's going to be interesting how that model changes.
And it's no different to when we went from CDs to streaming music and, you know.
Spotify changed the game, disrupted the whole industry, they did.
It's kind of like can we come up with some way to enumerate artists if their
music gets used into an AI generation tool that generates music?
(06:36):
And, you know, I think that's how we come up with a sustainable model. I definitely agree.
The other interesting podcast with the CEO, Getty Images, so he was talking
about, you know, his company's been around 30 years and everyone knows about
Getty Images and things like this.
People buy them, companies buy them for ads and all sorts of things.
And he was talking about his point of view about, you know, people that generate
photography and, you know, those sort of things and what the role of AI will play in that.
(07:01):
And they've released a new kind of ethical AI on their platform,
which really allows people to go and generate images, but rewards the people
that have taken the photos that have trained the large language model in the first place.
And I thought that was a really neat idea as well to be able to reward,
you know, kind of the people that created the images that train the model.
So, you know, I think I see a lot of this.
(07:24):
I think we'll see a change in the way that we deal with content and,
you know, I'll probably see a lot more guarding content as well,
you know, paywall kind of security stuff.
Even written content, you know, writing, okay, can I please write this story
in the context of I'm JK Rowling or something like that.
AI is probably smart enough to figure out and start writing some of this stuff
(07:46):
or you're writing, you know, a professional paper, all that kind of stuff in
the context of this person or that person.
So again, it really opens up a lot of doors and definitely something that everyone
should be considering moving forward.
Really interesting topic there, Scott, as per normal. The other one was OpenAI.
I think they actually mimicked Scarlett Johansson's voice and they actually
(08:07):
asked her prior to doing that.
Now Scarlett Johansson I think is suing OpenAI because they did something very
similar to her voice again.
She definitely said no. She definitely said no. So no means no.
And, yeah, it was interesting that that happened, right? So I think – and,
you know, the other thing is too, I think we're seeing – as we're seeing more
(08:27):
advanced tools like SOAR are getting released, not released to public.
You know, maybe some of these tools are just going to get released to artists, right?
And I think Adobe's playing a big role in that space as well.
So, you know, like our enterprise tools, like some of the software that gets
released doesn't get released to general consumers because it's too expensive
(08:48):
and it's not really what they would use on a day-to-day basis.
But big organisations buy it. You know, I think some of these more advanced
AI sort of creative sort of tooling will probably go in that direction over time.
I just, yeah, especially like specific stuff. That's really interesting.
A different way of, a different perspective, yeah, because I think we're just
so amazed by this technology now, but we're not actually thinking about the
(09:10):
repercussions it has on people and all of this kind of stuff,
yeah, people's livelihoods, yeah.
So it's really sort of, like I say, ethical AI and making sure that people don't
get, you know, loss of income and all of that kind of stuff.
So it's a really... It's going to impact you. It's been before like Pixar and all that kind of stuff.
What happens with that industry because you know you can type in sentences and
obviously create video content and animations and all of this kind of stuff.
(09:33):
So it's just a really, I guess, a big watch that's going to be coming soon is
how the industry tackles that and how we make sure that people don't get burnt throughout.
It all comes down to ethical AI and trust, right? And you'll hear,
the listeners will hear Justin talk a little bit about that through the interview.
(09:53):
The other hot topic right now is security, right? Customer security around,
you know, and it was a big, for those who saw Brad Smith, you know,
dragged in front of a whole bunch of people around Microsoft security issues
in the past and what we're doing to address that.
I thought it was a fascinating kind of, I guess, Yes, grilling by Congress in
(10:13):
America in the last couple of weeks.
So I think security is just so important now.
And the tooling, a lot of the tooling is there.
It's about the practice and about customers. Complementing it.
Yeah, classifying data correctly and things like that because we never really had to.
You always had smart people in the organization that would go and check and
(10:36):
see people had really marked something confidential or not. I guess you always
had data leaked through that.
But it's the ease now. It's the ease of going to Copilot.
And, you know, if you've got Copilot right in your organization,
just type in your manager's name and go, show me all the files and show me all
of the emails that I need to action that have been updated lately.
(10:59):
You know, and you throw that prompt in. So you have to do that piece of work
to really make sure that you've got that data classification right.
So I think you're going to see a lot of focus us on that over the next 12 months that's for
sure for sure so let's take a break
and we'll bring justin on in just a few
seconds to enlighten us on power pages
(11:19):
to future direction and his career which has been an amazing career and hopefully
everyone gets a little bit inspired by justin's journey We'll be right back.
Music.
(11:40):
Hey welcome back everyone i'm very happy and at the moment to announce one of
our guests coming on the show today justin graham justin's done a whole bunch
of work across silicon valley I quit working at AWS and Docker.
And Justin, I've had this special effect that we've never used on the show.
And I think it's appropriate that we use it for you. So I'm just going to roll it.
(12:02):
Nice. You like that? You like that? Nice. Yeah.
Nice. I appreciate the welcome. Thank you, audience. Thank you, crowd. I appreciate it.
All right. I've been keen to use that special effect, so I'm glad.
So welcome to the show. And of course, I'm joined here with Matt as well.
But Justin, tell us a bit about yourself before we kick into a whole barrage of questions.
(12:26):
And thanks for joining the show. Yeah, thank you.
I'm super happy to be here. I mean, Scott and I have worked together for a bit
of time and had some fun in my trips to Australia.
So some good dinners. So I'm happy to work with you. So I'm Justin Graham.
I work at Microsoft in the Power Platform.
And I run our Power Pages business. But I've been all over tech over the past...
(12:51):
Gosh, I don't want to date myself.
But let's say it's over 20 years in tech across both large and small companies.
Across many different roles, sales, customer support, field engineering,
product marketing, product management, and now general management.
So I've seen a lot and had a lot of fun.
(13:12):
And I think the things I've worked on have made some pretty awesome impact in
the world. So looking forward to more.
I think there's a great, great big AI world ahead of us.
I completely agree. I'm really excited about to get started in AI and the journey
that's going to take us. I think we're at the forefront of this next wave.
And I think for everyone involved in technology, it's super exciting.
(13:32):
So on that, tell us how you got involved with technology.
How did your sort of career get started and why technology stuck for your career?
I'm moving forward so yeah.
Yeah, it goes, I mean, I think like many, many, many folks of my generation,
I think we, you know, I wasn't there at the beginning.
I wasn't, you know, feeding punch cards into, into huge machines and huge rooms,
(13:55):
you know, in the 1960s or 70s.
But, you know, when the Apple II came out in the 1980s, that was kind of the
first four way I had into, into tech.
And I think, gosh, it was probably fifth grade or sixth grade,
the school I went to where I grew up, got a computer lab for the first time.
And I got to take my first computer class.
(14:15):
And it was all floppy disks. There were no such thing as hard drives at that time.
And we had a project to basically build a program that was basically a set of logic trees.
And I finished that project in like 10 minutes, even though I had never touched
a computer before or whenever I was the first in my class to finish it.
(14:35):
And my teacher called my parents and was like, And my parents were like,
We don't even know what we're like.
What do you mean computers at home? Like, no, we don't have... We can't afford that.
So that was the beginning of the passion.
My first computer was a Macintosh SE30 with,
I think, 256 kilobytes of RAM and an internal 20 megabyte hard drive and an
(15:03):
external 40 megabyte hard drive. That was very expensive.
That was a hand-me-down from a friend. So that was the beginning of the passion.
And then Microsoft hired me out of undergrad 22 years ago. So the rest is history. Thank you.
Awesome, awesome. And I guess, throughout your career, you sort of taken a number
of different leadership positions as part of that.
(15:24):
So for all the budding sort of technical leaders out there, sort of what are
the sort of the skills and traits that you can kind of recommend for them to
sort of get going and started on that career journey to becoming a sort of technical
leader like yourself? Yeah.
I mean, I think for me, my career obviously didn't start out in leadership.
I was a phone support engineer. So I think if I take the formative experience from that,
(15:47):
I learned very early in career how to take my deep technical knowledge and talk
to customers and impart it to everyday people in the world.
And I really cut my teeth on very, very high-severity support cases and things
(16:08):
like that, and big customers very early in my career.
And then the leadership bit really came in naturally.
I was working for a company, and I had an idea to create a new product that
I thought would be additive to the company.
(16:29):
And I pitched our executive team.
I pitched the board and got funded for it. But I didn't have any direct reports, really.
I was a product leader and then I had an engineering leader working on it.
So I learned how to lead first without actually having direct reports.
And then I found out how fun that was to see...
(16:51):
Us come together and ship something and how happy that made the people who worked
on it and how their careers grew and how happy it made our customers and that.
The passion kind of came from there.
And then now, it really, for me, is a lot about working on things that democratize
access to tech, to technology, right?
And I think, you know, power platform, I think, you know, developer tools like
(17:16):
Docker at their core or really democratize access.
So the best ideas can come from anywhere, but it's maybe to make sure that all
the best ideas can get surfaced and that access isn't the delineator of which
ideas win versus which ones don't.
(17:38):
Hey, Justin, when I think about your time at Microsoft, you looked after process
mining as well, which is a really cool product. and probably in the concept
of Microsoft, probably a really small part of Microsoft when you think about it, right?
It's like the Azure engineering teams and all the rest of it.
How do you motivate people on a smaller product?
(18:00):
Like in PowerPages now, it's a bigger product, obviously, but how do you motivate
those technical people to stay in the team,
complete the goals that they need to complete and really change the product
and then align that to AI as well right now.
So, you know, there's so much to get done but I know you don't have a massive
(18:22):
team to like throw at it, right?
Even though it's pretty big. But, you know, interesting your thoughts on that.
Yeah. I mean, I think my time working in startups really taught me a lot of valuable lessons.
I say all the time, when you work at a startup, there's a built-in steel thread
of culture in every startup, which is, if this thing doesn't work out,
(18:43):
we're all going to be out on the street.
Right if it so like intrinsically you
know behind the scenes like yes it's like everybody
wants to win big you know for the company for
themselves for the families and also for customers right like that's that
the like there's a natural attraction to working on a
smaller thing right like more risk more reward potentially
(19:04):
right but also more risk more downside potentially so
so there's all like that steel thread you know
exists everywhere but i think you know the the motivator
behind that is how in what way is
this net new thing changing the like really
changing the world or changing a good chunk of the world
and not in a like organically iterative
(19:25):
iterative way right and if you find like there's been times where i've found
myself struggling to really come up with that i'm like okay then maybe this
isn't the business or maybe this isn't the problem you know that that really
is the most important thing or the biggest thing to work on and then you kind
of move on to the next thing.
But when you can really kind of have a clear vision, a clear thought or view of that,
(19:51):
then you can actually translate that into writing and pictures and a figment,
really translate into a visual of a mission and vision and strategy.
That's what really builds a huge motivator in a small effort, effort.
A new effort, startup, new business, what have you.
(20:14):
Last thing is a culture eats strategy for breakfast 9.9 times out of 10, 10.1 times out of 10.
If someone says, hey, what do you do for a living and you don't...
You can't say, oh, I run a $10 billion business or
I built this thing that's used by 80,000 million
(20:36):
million people right whatever it is right you're like hey i'm working on
something really cool that's kind of that's new we you know we're
like you you the culture of who you
work with and how you work you know makes that fun and
it really makes you want to continue to work with those folks yeah no that makes
a lot of sense i think simon said he kind of wraps up some of that is you know
(20:57):
go find your why as well i really it's everyone ever since the podcast i really
like Simon and some of his teachings and I try and you know put that into my team as well so,
but yeah just just excellent excellent work I guess on on a product that we see.
Really been the central, I think, for a long time we thought PowerPages should
(21:17):
be kind of WordPress, easy to use.
And I think we're starting to see that vision in PowerPages now,
which is great. And I think your leadership is really strong there.
Yeah, I've got a funny story about process mining, Justin. I remember we flew
over to Australia and you can actually ask anyone on my team this.
We caught up and I was quite new to process mining and Justin showed me this
demo and I was like blown away with what you could do. I think it was a co-pilot with process mining.
(21:41):
And I've walked out of the meeting with Justin. I think we had a chat.
We had a bit of a chat about sport and we'll chat about that after as well.
But I literally messaged my entire team chat and I was like,
stop everything that you're doing and look at this process mining video and
we're moving towards process mining right now.
And you can actually ask my entire team. I was blown away with the product and
capability as part of that.
So there's some good feedback, Justin. I was super impressed with that product.
(22:03):
And like I said, we've got some other customers that we're working on at the moment.
And again, Pages. Pages is really starting to take off. We've got a number of
projects going on at the moment.
I guess the capabilities that are getting further enhanced, co-pilot,
being able to build pages and all of that kind of stuff.
So I guess is there anything you can share, not confidentially,
but is there anything you can share maybe to the audience here about some of
(22:25):
the cool things that potentially might be happening in the pages space?
Again, I don't want to get you in trouble, but what are some of the things that
you are able to share on a conversation like today?
Well, I mean, we definitely have some very fun things. I can't share any details
yet yet because there's lots happening.
But obviously, we're really thinking through how to reinvent.
(22:47):
What it means to have business websites or business portals that externalize
business processes in a Gen-AI native world.
And I think beyond the awfulness of the health scare that was the pandemic,
I think one of One of the things that time and history taught business is how
(23:12):
interconnected everything.
We have, do, use in our day-to-day lives becomes.
And really, if you trace all... The car you drive, the materials that built
your house, your internet connection...
If you trace all that back to the businesses that run those things and the people
(23:32):
that operate those businesses, there's so many interconnected business processes,
not just within companies, within a single company entity,
but between multiple company entities coming together. other.
If you just think what it takes to get a vehicle to a showroom and into your garage,
that vehicle is the culmination of hundreds of interconnected business processes
(23:58):
between very likely even hundreds of different companies and parts suppliers.
So from the process mining bit, that's actually what got me super interested
in process mining and taking on that business.
Because in previous life, I'd worked closely in like automotive and some other
manufacturing supply chain related business areas of the world.
(24:20):
And it just shocked me continually how interconnected those things were.
So that's what I was like, we've got like, man, if we can make the processes
hum on their own and the intelligence from those readily available to anyone in the process,
then we've basically democratized the ability to process improve to anybody.
(24:40):
Right it not just like a handful of
people and i think pages builds
on top of that because the like the
way someone can securely interact with a business partner that's not a part
of their business entity whether it's you know forms you know or elsewhere is
(25:01):
really important to how to getting things built and getting things done so it's
actually my end plus with a much wider I think,
a much wider blast radius in terms of numbers of people that will be positively affected.
And many people just forget the websites you interact with. I can't name any on this call.
(25:22):
But if I name two or three websites, very large ones that are running on pages
that many people use every day, people would be shocked.
So it's a fun place to be.
You know what's really interesting about what you just said?
Matt and I talk a lot about Gen AI kind of replacing quite a few Power Apps use cases, right?
(25:47):
So you think about it, I always use the old annually PTO example.
Are you going to go to an app for that or are you just going to go to your copilot
and go, hey, could you book a holiday for me for two weeks?
And it will automatically go into our systems and go and do that.
But PowerPages is different. I see that as the front door to Gen.AI and what
(26:09):
I mean by that, I was watching one of our internal company strategy demos last week, I think.
And one of the demos involved having OpenAI be able to add something to a cart, right?
Which is kind of the first time we're seeing this whole actionable AI kind of journey.
But that sits on PowerPages. So having an AI-generated kind of chatbot controlling
(26:33):
the PowerPages experience, that's something new.
And I think if we can really crack that, PowerPages becomes the front door in
my book to that experience and think about how we would – no more clicking through PowerPages, right?
Let's just ask a bot to go and do stuff. I think it's really interesting.
Is your team kind of thinking through this? I guess you would be, right?
(26:55):
It's uh it's kind of the future yeah because
in many ways the way our customers use
us you know is as a front door to
a business process where there's a mutual exchange of
value right but how do you do that
like it's it's different it's a little
different than like just going to
(27:18):
a certain website for for information right if
that which there is an exchange of value there in some
way like like but but from a different
perspective if if that exchange of
value you know nets a a necessary service and that like there's many customers
that are in the public sector that use pages you know as a front door to a business
(27:42):
process for a public service right that like i take that pretty very seriously
as a you know you know we all pay taxes and we all want to live in
a great society, you know, across the world, like public services,
you know, and the ease of access to those public services at full bore is a
really important, you know, sort of baseline for, for any high functioning,
(28:03):
you know, highly functioning society.
So we like the, and the more we can make that easier and more efficient and
increase the access, which I actually think some of the, you know,
co-pilot and agentic, um,
Things that we're thinking about is really a method to level the playing field
(28:24):
on access to a bunch of different things, right? So I'll give you one example.
Just as one thing, like a canonical example we've been using internally to kind
of help us think through.
Passport renewal, right? Or even simpler, driver's license renewal.
Or I think in most countries where there's vehicles, in Washington State, we call them tabs.
(28:45):
But it's effectively renewing the registration of your motor vehicle right every year it's like
we all for me the issue
like the issue is that the fact that i have to do like i know i know i
have to do it i know when i have to do it i know all the things i
need to do to do it i know the steps i need to take to do it time is actually
the the hardest part about this right it's you know especially when it comes
(29:10):
to something like passport renewal like lots of questions and necessary questions
that you have to answer lots of data you have to gather you have to sit down,
long multi-step forms and like you know
you know i would love like i would love a personal justin agent that like had
secure access to all of justin's person justin's information in a secure store
(29:32):
that no one else can access to but you know but justin and justin's agent and
like when that passport renewal time came up,
I could actually assign my agent to do that on my behalf, right?
It knows all the countries I've visited in the past five years.
It knows where I live now.
(29:53):
If I've been at that address for two or more years, do I need a previous address?
How long was I there? Where do I work? What's my title?
All these things that you need to fill out, right? What's my tax ID number?
All those things, right?
I know all that stuff. but I just like the hour and a half to sit down and type
(30:13):
all that in is, is really the thing, right?
The, if the agent knows when it's, when I need to, when I need,
when it needs to be renewed, it knows what the deadlines are.
It can schedule, you know, it can schedule itself to do it. You know,
like, and that's a microcosm example, but it's a canonical example.
But if you extend that type of example to all the things that like people need
(30:36):
need to interact with a business for or even businesses need to interact with
other businesses for right but like hey we're a supplier to i'm a company a
i'm a supplier to company b,
you know company b knows when
its inventory is running low on the thing i supply they have an agent that knows
that that agent sends me like hey by the way like we're getting my agent knows
(31:00):
what to do when that happens or it's watched the patterns for the past 10 years
and knows approximately it's every seven weeks i mean like there's so much possibility,
for how these types of things can really help streamline the world so.
I'm thinking like access as you're talking through that, Justin,
(31:22):
like accessibility as well.
Like imagine trying to do all that if you can't read or, you know,
you can't communicate or maybe you've got some sort of handicap.
Like this Copilot technology on pages could really change people's lives for
the better. Like just phenomenal.
That's how I see it. That's how I see it. So that's why it's fun to work on
(31:47):
this and the democratization of access to this type of technology is something
I'm really passionate about.
Completely agree. And for someone who just renewed their license,
Justin, I wish I had a Matt agent three weeks ago because I can definitely...
The world's not ready for two Matts. The world's not ready.
And all of this kind of stuff. I'm just rushing to get it done.
(32:08):
The Matt agent. We're not ready yet. We're not ready yet. A family agent,
like, you know, scheduling the kids being camp scheduled, like baseball,
like, you know, I mean, if you have kids, you're like, okay,
you're trying to get your kids into sports.
Those sports open up and the registration opens up. You got to sign up.
There's deadline, like, you know, there's just, there's so much,
you know, we're all juggling in our lives, right?
(32:31):
You know, like, it would just be awesome to have, you know, to have some help, right?
My wife would totally get the family agent and it would be rude to be in a second.
I think it would be start telling me what to do and go, don't talk to me like that. You need to go.
Golf booking agent. I don't know. They can be powerful, yeah.
What do you mean you want to go play golf? No, you're not doing that today.
I'm not booking that in for you. That's not happening.
(32:53):
There we go. Time to take the kids to the park, yeah.
I've got a great question, Justin, and this is probably pretty timely,
but security is top, right? How important is security to you and your team?
I'm sure we get to number one.
Priority zero. Priority zero. So, I mean, there's been lots,
(33:15):
lots in the market, like lots in the, in the, in the public space around, around that.
But, you know, the, the continuing commitment to security and even heightened
commitment is, is, is super important because, you know, as I mentioned before,
like if we kind of marry these two conversations up in a bit, right?
The personal MAT agent is only compelling if the personal data of MAT is only
(33:40):
accessible to the MAT agent and MAT himself.
If it's accessible to everybody in the world, all of a sudden the value proposition
of the MAT agent isn't as high.
You'd rather do it yourself by hand and take the extra time.
Right so it's just an important reminder of
like all the value in the world all the new features in
(34:03):
the world all the new whiz bangs and shiny objects in the world the value proposition
can immediately you know deteriorate if if the fundamentals you know aren't
there behind it so we we spend i mean right before this call i was on a call
really working with my team on how we,
how we even step our step up the game even more yeah it makes sense and i think
(34:26):
trust is going to to be the single most in trust and security the two most important
things moving forward in ai i was just going to go swing swing the conversation
back a little bit to your career at microsoft and,
one of the questions that we had for you was proud moments in your career have
you got anything you can share that really is probably i don't know maybe your
(34:46):
number one number two proud moment of microsoft or could be anywhere really
so so so i think the proudest moment was this was february of 2008,
I did the first,
launch demo of Hyper-V and Windows Server 2008 on stage with Steve Bomer.
(35:06):
And I was a lot younger then and a lot more earlier in my career at that point.
So that was sort of a... I'm going to find that footage. I'm totally going to
find that footage for you.
I'm hoping it still exists somewhere in the ether of online video, video storage.
But that was literally months into my first product job after coming out of the field.
(35:35):
And I had done a lot of work in the field on Windows Server and the beginnings of Hyper-V.
So that was a really fun, fun seminal moment in my career. And I think if I had to pick another...
So last year at Ignite, we kind of revealed some of the goodness that was coming
(36:00):
from... No, not Ignite. Sorry.
Inspire. Inspire. Last summer, which is different than Ignite.
Inspire is kind of our conference at the beginning of every year where we kick
off with partners, where we...
The first real big reveal of some of the great stuff that we were doing in process
mining and how it was going to pair together with Gen AI concepts to deliver
(36:22):
some really valuable, groundbreaking things.
And sort of watching, I wasn't there in person, but watching it on video and
our CEO kind of announcing that and talking about it.
And then a demo being done right after that was a pretty awesome moment,
given I, and a core member of that team, I've been with it since almost the beginning.
(36:43):
In fact, there were members of the team even before me that were literally there
from the very beginning of an email on this idea years ago to now that.
So you can never beat that feeling of that 0 to 1 or 0 to 10 reveal.
It's like a proud parent moment taking this idea through and now it's on stage
(37:03):
and everyone's talking about it. Imagine what it's like.
I'm a bit disappointed you didn't go with going to Australia.
I thought that would have been right up there.
Say that it's actually my trip to perth yeah
this was awesome man i'd like that's my
home that's my home so many i'm not losing so yeah i
(37:26):
loved it i mean i i've been to australia like
seven or eight times and and i that was my first time
to perth and i mean i just
remember on even on approach with the airplane landing i
was looking around like this place is beautiful like just
you know and uh i mean just just super great
hospitality i went to i think i had dinner on the beach one of
(37:47):
the first nights you know yeah it was
amazing and you know when i
like one of the funnest parts of this job i mean you've not a question you ask
but what like one of the funnest parts of this job is interact like sitting
down in a meeting in front of a customer you've never met before and asking
the question like tell me like tell me about your business and what's What's
(38:09):
the thing keeping you up at night? My favorite question.
And I got to meet with some companies in Perth and, and, and through these meetings,
I kind of got to learn a different, a different, you know, part of the world
I'd never been exposed to, which is like, how do, you know, I have an electric car.
I have an, you know, I have a mobile, I have a mobile phone, right.
(38:31):
I've got, you know, I just, I just kind of refreshed my laptops in my house
with Razer gaming laptops, which is what I'm on.
I'm on now. It's like, I've got Razer, Chroma, flashing lights everywhere.
Where I'm a little bit of a geek in that way, you know.
But I got to learn like the materials that are in my phone,
like where did those actually start and how did they get from that into my S
(38:58):
24 ultra, you know, in my hand that I, that I basically run my life.
Right. And then, and then through that in the whole supply, like I just,
I just got to learn so much that I never even knew or thought about in that realm.
And to me, that's some of the funnest parts of the job.
(39:19):
And then to hear our Microsoft teams that work with those customers give more
history and then give their history working with those customers and then how
our software in the past...
I mean, those are some of the most fun things. And those don't...
Those get spoken about a lot because like, oh, the... Even I was like,
the big sexy demo on stage or the reveal by our CEO.
(39:44):
But it's actually... Those things are like one moment in time,
one day or one week in a lifetime.
But it's those day-to-day, week-to-week moments of meeting someone you've never
met in a different walk of life,
in a different business world or what have you, teaching you another wrinkle
about how this world we live in all kind of fits together from a different it's most fun.
(40:10):
Of course, that took you to legend status because in the background while your
trip was getting planned, I remember my manager coming to me,
Angie, and she said, oh, Justin's going to Perth. I said, well,
I don't want to go to Perth. It's from the US.
How does that mean? You're the mayor of Perth now, Justin. For those listeners
that don't know, it's like a four-hour flight with a three-hour time zone difference
when you came out because of daylight savings.
(40:32):
And it's like literally flying to another country if you're in another country.
So most product managers that come out from the U.S. to Australia,
they just don't have time in the schedule to head over to Perth and do some meetings and come back.
So we really appreciated it that you went to Perth because we really need to go to Perth more.
And so, yeah, so it was fantastic. So thank you. You bet. I mean, that's what I'm saying.
(40:53):
I'm like, by the way, like, if we all still want these – I'm waving at 24.
But, like, if we still want these things to continue to evolve and,
I mean, And, you know, there are so many parts of the world that are so critical
to how we live our everyday lives that 99% of people will never know or never hear of.
(41:15):
But, like, that number needs to be, like, a lot less than 99%, right?
Like, if we all truly understood how things that we depend on actually happen,
like, the whole perspective and how the world, the citizenry of the world contribute to that, right?
From many different angles, we'd all be better off for it.
(41:36):
We've got the key to the city now, Justin. So I'll make sure that next time
you come in, we'll hook you up with the mayor and all that kind of stuff. I would love it.
Everyone from Perth on this call today.
There's also an amazing golf course. It's one of the best golf courses in the
world at Perth, Jindalup. So if you ever want to have a hit, amazing.
It's got one of the best holes rated globally. Okay.
It's the quarry course. I mean, given how my office is decorated,
(42:02):
I am a huge golf nut. So I will be packing my clubs and they will be making
me 8,000-mile trip next time.
Definitely, definitely. I've got a couple of sport questions to ask you.
I know you're a sport nut like myself.
Oh, yeah. I know the Pittsburgh Steelers have made some interesting off-season
acquisitions. Obviously, Russell Wilson and Justin Fields.
(42:23):
I guess my first question for you is who's going to be the starting quarterback
at the end of the season? Oh, I've seen it.
I know Russell's probably going to start.
I think that's what Mike Tomlin has said. but there's probably
a steak dinner which we should put on this one
i mean we should do it yeah yeah i i think it
will be justin fields and i and in fact i'm
(42:44):
really rooting for justin fields i you know i
mean i don't know him personally but but you know so i'm a
fan like anybody else i read the internet like everybody else but
yeah but i just think the way the way the steelers play ball the way our organization
likes to play ball and and like i think he's a he can be the perfect quarterback
for what the Pittsburgh Steelers almost like Lamar Jackson a lot yeah kind of deals yes Coco.
(43:12):
My next question is, we're on Augusta. We're going to the 18th hole.
You've got to pick a golfer that's going to basically win the tournament for
you. Who are you picking out of your wide array of golfers that you follow quite closely?
I'm always picking Tiger. I'm always sticking with Tiger.
I mean, in so many ways, actually, Tiger Woods is the reason I even play golf. I even got started.
(43:37):
We're not that far apart in age either. So it's, it's one of the few examples
of like, you know, even I don't tend to idolize, I'm not like a type of person
that tends to idolize other humans.
You know, I just think like, we're all, we're all people, we bring different things to the table.
But, but what, you know, what Tiger has been able to do in his career has been,
(43:58):
it's been pretty transformative, and really, like, has, you know,
has inspired a bunch of people that would never have thought before to play to play this sport.
So, uh, in fact, I, I learned like, this is a little secret.
I couldn't afford golf lessons when I, my dad brought me my first set of clubs
on my call, my college graduation. I couldn't afford to take lessons at the time.
(44:20):
So I actually learned to swing a golf club by standing in my living room,
watching tiger play in tournaments.
And when he would swing, I would, I would like when I would pause it,
when he set up to the ball, and I try to look at how he was gripping the club,
I learned making the interlock and then like how he turned it.
I learned how to swing a golf club by just watching Tiger and pausing and replaying
(44:44):
and imitating it in my living room and then trying to go out to the range and try to practice that.
So always Tiger. Always Tiger.
Do you have a favorite Tiger moment? There's so many.
There's obviously the iconic Nike ball going in, basically stopping at the swoosh
(45:06):
and then going in after this ridiculous putt at the Masters,
but is there one sort of iconic Tiger moment that you just went,
wow, this is the one? The win on the broken leg.
The win on the broken leg. There's many moments. I think there's a Curt Schilling
moment if you're a baseball fan.
If you're a Red Sox fan, everyone remembers the bloody sock.
Curt Schilling moment in the playoffs that led to breaking the curse.
(45:31):
There's many American football stories, soccer stories.
To me, that was every... For two days, every swing he took, he was grimacing,
limping, you know and still managed to win the
tournament so to me i'm like well that's a little bit of
a lesson of like you know we don't all
(45:51):
feel our best every day if you're sick if you're truly sick and
injured you're truly sick and injured but like there's a level of you know to
be great and do great things there's a level of perseverance and a level of
you know a level of determination you must have and if you only are putting
100 in on the days you're 100 you're never gonna be like I don't think you're ever going to be great.
(46:14):
Yeah, definitely agree. Definitely agree. So me and you can probably talk about
sports all day, but I'll save the rest of it for MPPC.
But a huge thank you for joining us on the show today.
Really looking forward to catching up in September and having a great conference
and a nice little discussion.
But again, thank you so much for joining us on Power Time. We really do appreciate
you coming in and spending some time with us and sharing a lot of your learnings. You bet.
(46:36):
Great fun. And I look forward to my next trip to Australia. Oh,
yeah. So hopefully, we'll get this here.
And to Perth and Justin, I look forward to catching up. Yes, it is.
It could be summer in Seattle by that time. It's not summer now,
but it should be summer by that point.
Music.
(46:59):
Hey, that's a wrap for today. Thanks so much for everyone for listening to our
podcast. Just a few reminders.
So we've set up a LinkedIn page. So we'll endeavor to put some updates on that
LinkedIn page. So go on there and click follow for us.
Also, don't forget to go to powertime.au and subscribe to our newsletter.
And lastly, if you could please click follow on this podcast so you get the
(47:22):
latest episodes as they come out.
We're trying to get the podcasts out every two to three weeks.
So there should be a good cadence with a whole bunch of new guests coming on.
Now, lastly, don't forget that the views on this podcast are not the views of
MCS or Microsoft, top, but they're the views of Matt and I and our guests.
Thanks again. See you. Can't wait to see you on the next podcast.
(47:42):
Music.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.