December 3, 2024 • 51 mins
Reclaiming Identity: Motherhood, Infertility, and Healing
In this heartfelt episode of Practically Magick, Courtney Pearl shares a deeply personal journey as she collaborates with Jen Banks from the "Let Yourself Bloom" podcast. Together, they explore the profound themes of motherhood, identity, and the often unspoken struggles of infertility. Courtney opens up about her own experiences with infertility, reflecting on how it has shaped her identity and her path to motherhood. Through candid storytelling and a powerful card reading from the Goddess Power Oracle deck, Courtney delves into the symbolism of liberation and transformation, likening it to the journey of a caterpillar becoming a butterfly.
Listeners are invited to explore the concept of the "mother wound," a topic deeply intertwined with healing and personal growth. Courtney shares a transformative experience from a ritual in England, emphasizing the importance of reclaiming one's sovereignty and identity, even in the face of profound loss or unexpected life changes. The episode also touches on the emotional and energetic aspects of healing, encouraging listeners to confront and process their own experiences and emotions.
Courtney and Jen discuss the resilience required to overcome adversity, drawing on insights from neuroscience and emotional healing practices. They highlight the significance of understanding one's worth beyond societal and personal expectations, encouraging a shift in perspective to embrace a broader view of fulfillment and purpose.
For those seeking guidance or support in their own healing journeys, Courtney invites listeners to connect with her through her website, Prism Healing, where she offers integrative processing techniques and emotional healing sessions. This episode serves as a reminder that, regardless of the challenges faced, there is always potential for growth, healing, and transformation.
00:00 This podcast is presented by Ride the Wave Media
00:25 Courtney Pearl talks about finding your identity through motherhood on Practically Magic
02:12 We're going to use the Goddess Power Oracle deck for this episode
05:00 The Red Spring is a sacred place in Glastonbury, England
12:16 Let Yourself Bloom podcast features Courtney from A Is for Adversity
13:12 Why do some people overcome it and others succumb to it
17:05 Talk to us about your experience with infertility and how you went through that
24:50 Michelle says facing infertility changed her perspective on life
29:22 Some people get to experience motherhood later in life or after circumstances
33:45 You talk about shame being at the bottom of the energy vibration scale
39:53 I want to talk about my role as a mother and how that came to be
41:06 A lot of the healing work that I do is healing mother wounds
48:35 Courtney Pearl suggests deconstructing what mother means to you
For more resources and to connect with Courtney, visit her website at prism-healing.com or follow her on Instagram and TikTok @prism-healing. Special thanks to Ride the Wave Media for producing this episode. Remember, you are powerful, and your magic can transform any space. Go make magic, witches and wizards!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:21):
Good evening, witches and wizards.
Thank you for joining me.
This is Practically Magicwith Courtney Pearl.
Today is a very special episode becauseit is actually not me that is hosting.
Um, the episode you are about to heartoday is going to be from an episode
of Let Yourself Bloom with Jen Banks.
(00:45):
Um, I shamelessly asked her if shewould have me on her podcast to
talk about a very specific subjectthat is very important to me.
Um, and she talks a lot about on herpodcast, finding your identity through
motherhood, that for a lot of women, Wetend to lose ourselves in being mothers,
(01:13):
being of service to our family, and thatshe is of the belief that people can
retain their identity and even Blossom orbloom within that identity of motherhood,
um, with the things that are importantand matter to us and what is our purpose.
(01:34):
And I specifically reachedout to her because I have an
experience with infertility.
And I wanted to talk with herspecifically about what women who
go through infertility feel like andwhere that connects with our identity
(01:58):
and in pursuit of our purpose.
So that is what you're going to hearwith our conversation from her episode.
I just wanted to add in a little bit of myown magic when talking about this subject.
So before we get to the episode that,um, that I'm going to show you, I
(02:20):
would like to start it out in thePractically Magic way and do a card
reading and a little storytelling tohelp introduce us and introduce what
it is that Jen and I talked about.
So the first thing that I want to do ispull a card and I've chosen the goddess
(02:40):
power oracle deck for this because to me,when asked about mothers and women power,
um, I specifically think about goddesses.
The goddesses of mythology and who itis that I relate to or honor when it
(03:00):
comes to my My own deities and my ownworship is I think of the goddess.
So the goddess oracle deck, goddess poweroracle deck, we're going to choose a card
and the card that comes up.
Oh, this is absolutely perfectfor what we're going to talk about
today because this is the Kali card.
(03:23):
I'm showing it on the screen forthose who are watching on YouTube.
Kali or, uh, the word that is associatedhere in the deck is liberation.
I want to share an experience that I hadin England last year, um, because I think
it falls perfectly in line with this card.
(03:43):
Kali being the goddess ofdestruction and creation.
And The belief system around, um, thepeoples that worship Kali or that, um,
it's part of their mythology is that Thecreative energy of the universe is also
the energy that has to be destructive.
(04:07):
And that can sound really scary,but it's actually really beautiful.
Um, and the way that I think of thatis the way that a caterpillar has to
completely deconstruct or destroy or,uh, take apart cell by cell its own body.
(04:30):
In order to transform and bereborn into the butterfly.
That, to me, is a perfect symbol for whatit means when we have to We have to honor
the destruction as well as honoring thebuilding and the creating of something.
(04:55):
They are the same energy or theyare coming from the same place.
And why I feel like this needs to comeup, um, so this experience that I had
in England, um, when I went, we dida ritual ceremony at the Red Spring.
um, in the Chalice Well Gardens.
(05:18):
Um, the ritual was specifically toidentify the legend of the Well Maidens.
The Well Maidens were keeping the HolyGrail safe, uh, near the well and their
job was to bring it out at certain timesof the year and festivals to honor and to
(05:39):
display the Holy Grail and the Chalice.
And the story goes that these maidenswere attacked when the area or the
land was invaded and some of the wellmaidens ran away, some were killed,
(06:00):
some were violated, and it was very,very much a dishonor on the maidens
themselves, who were the guardians of thechalice, but also of the chalice well.
And, um, the way that the legendgoes, we were asked to think
of what had been taken from us.
(06:23):
in our past, something that we felt wasa violation or an injustice done to us,
and that as we concluded this ritual,we would reclaim that for ourselves, and
we would step into our own sovereignty.
through this experience.
(06:44):
And I really didn't have anyintention in mind when I went into it.
Uh, when I thought about what Iwould want to reclaim, there wasn't
something that stood out to me aslike, Oh, this is what I'm here for.
This is definitely whatthis ritual is for, for me.
It wasn't until we did a certainpart of the ceremony where One
by one individually, we wereasked to go in and we were to
(07:06):
stand in front of the red spring.
So where the spring comes out, there'sa little trickle or river or little
creek that they, they filter the waterthrough and then they come, it comes
down this waterfall and into a pool.
And at this point, you go through agate and there's this little area.
(07:26):
I did a painting of this area becauseit was so sacred and special to me.
This little area where there's a pool.
And the water, it is so thick withiron that all of the rocks and, um,
the pool where it's where the watercomes and collects, it's all red.
And if you spend any time in the water,if you walk in it, or if you, um,
(07:53):
if you, uh, fill up yourcanteen with it, it will be red.
It will be stained red becausethere's so much iron in the water.
And that's why it's the red spring.
So, um, Um, it's a very sacred pilgrimage.
It's a sacred place for a lot ofpagans and Christians alike because
of the legend of the Holy Grail, um,believed to have been brought there.
And, um, this is in Glastonbury,by the way, if you didn't know.
(08:17):
Um, so it's very red.
The little waterfall area is red.
And we were asked to straddle thewater, the, the little creek as it
came down before it goes into the pool.
We were asked to put one leg on each sideand then just look into the waterfall and
identify what it was we were reclaiming.
(08:40):
And it wasn't until that moment that Irealized that with my infertility, with
the, um, the identity of wanting to be amother and not being given the chance to
be a mother in the way that I imagined Iwould be, the way most women in a natural
state just get pregnant and have a baby.
(09:03):
I didn't realize how veryviolated I felt at having had that
opportunity taken away from me.
And even at this point,I had had my children.
I have three sons, I have three childrenand I have, I'm a parent, I'm a mom.
But in that moment I realized howmuch that transcript, Separate from
(09:28):
parenthood, that had been taken from me.
That that felt like a violation.
And that the flow of blood ina typical healthy menstrual
cycle was also taken from me.
It's interesting about that is, whenI was a teenager, going through, like,
(09:49):
the maturation classes and thingsthat you take and they talk about,
you know, what, what a woman's bodyis going to do, I was terrified.
I was not somebody who waslooking forward to that.
I was like, oh no, I can't believe thatwomen have to go through that every month.
And yet, when I was no longer able, mybody was not able to do that anymore,
(10:16):
I didn't realize the grief that Iwould feel at having that taken away.
And that moment was reallyprecious to me, really sacred.
And I'm sharing that publicly becauseI feel it is so important for everyone
Whether you're a man, a woman, whetheryou want to have children or don't
want to have children, whether you'rea mother or not a mother, whatever it
is, I think it's important for us tohear each other's experiences and to
(10:41):
normalize that and to make it okay andto know that whatever it is you are
going through, you're not alone in that.
So for me, that was very sacredto be able to stand in that moment
and say, this was taken from me.
This, this particular path tomotherhood was taken from me.
(11:03):
It wasn't my choice and it was aviolation and an injustice and now I
get to feel that, express that, andreclaim my role, my own sovereignty in
motherhood or in whatever that looks like.
(11:25):
So we're going to talk a little bitmore about, uh, mother wounds and
what that means and what that lookslike, especially in healing work.
But first I am going to Turn the timeover, if that's not too triggering
for some people who know that phrasefrom certain cultures and groups.
(11:46):
I am going to turn the time over to theepisode that I recorded with Jen and
listen to what it was like to, um, toprocess that identity of motherhood when
When also processing the infertility,being a barren woman, if, if you will.
(12:10):
Hello, welcome to the LetYourself Bloom podcast.
I am so excited to be here with Courtney.
Welcome.
Hi!
I have had Courtney before on myAS for Adversity podcast and I
am excited to have her back forthe Let Yourself Bloom podcast.
Today we will be talkingabout all things motherhood,
(12:30):
infertility, and the journey there.
So I like to ask guests a question and Ihave a special deck that I pull it from.
We've done this at DBC a couple times,but it's just a table topics question.
And so I pulled it this morningknowing that we were going to be
doing this interview and I reallywas channeling my inner Courtney
(12:51):
when you pull your tarot cards.
And so I, I felt the deck and I was.
Trying to get it to the right one.
And it says, why are some peopleable to overcome adversity?
And so I thought that was so importantfor today because we are talking about
infertility and the struggles there.
And then just as a nod to my previouspodcast, but what are your thoughts?
(13:13):
Why do you think some peopleare able to overcome it?
And then other people, it seems likethey're kind of succumbed by it.
This is such a great question becauseit really applies to a lot of the
healing work that I do with clientsand with, um, we're doing emotional
and energy healing, um, and partneringit with also the neuroscience around
what people's brains are doing whenthey're developing, when they're young.
(13:37):
I think that Whether they make sense ornot, we come up with ways of handling
things that we bump up against, right?
So what I explain, um, and I just wasable to do last week, our first class
in our full moon course, which we wereable to kind of talk about how when
you're, young, even in the womb, you'realready developing these neural pathways
(14:03):
that are trying to get a need met.
And it's really just about chemical needs,but those chemical needs are reinforced
with like these basic human needs.
We all want, we all wantsome certainty and control.
Um, we feel safe when we feel likewe know what's going to happen.
Uh, we all want love and connectionin some way, shape or form.
(14:24):
However, we developthat way of getting it.
And you know, it partnerswith that oxytocin that our
chemical brain is getting.
So I think that, you know, when,when asking a question, like, why
do some people are able to do this?
And some people are not, somepeople bump up against something.
Um, I'm reminded of a book and I can't forthe life of me, remember right now what
(14:47):
book it is, but we'll just have to findit later and put it in the show notes.
It was a book about someone who wasin a, like, prisoner of war camp
for seven years, I want to say, andhe, all of these other soldiers that
were captured were like, going crazy.
Like they were in really awfulconditions and secluded and like it
(15:13):
was not at all pleasant place to be.
Some of them were tortured andfor whatever reason, some of them
were just like mentally broken.
Like they were not even who theywere when they came back out of it.
It really was a difficult situation.
And he thrived in the sameenvironment that they were all.
(15:35):
And that's not to say that thereare some people that are like, Oh,
you're stronger than everyone else.
It's to say that like, The way he changedhis neural pathways to be able to seek
his chemical needs, he changed what waswithin rather than being able to change
the circumstances he was in, right?
So he was still able to figure outa way to meet a need of love and
(15:57):
connection, of certainty and control,of variety, uh, which is like the
endorphins, um, all of those basichuman needs that I teach about.
Somehow he was still able to convincehis brain he was gonna get those, or
he was still getting them, even when hewasn't, by just changing perspective.
So that he was able to go throughseven years as a prisoner of war, and
(16:20):
still be able to come out of it like, Ithrived in it, I grew, I was different.
Better for it.
So yeah, that's Viktor Frankl, man.
Search for meaning.
Oh, thank you.
Yes, so true.
I love his quote and wealways need this reminder.
So I just want to read it.
Between stimulus andresponse, there is a space.
(16:40):
In that space is our powerto choose our response.
In our response lies ourgrowth and our freedom.
And I just love that becauseit's in that little space.
And sometimes we don't even noticethat space, but as we slow down
and identify it, you're right.
That's where our power is tochange those neural pathways.
I'll leave it to you, Jen.
You knew the book, youknow it, you got it.
Thank you so much.
(17:01):
I do kind of like quotes.
Okay, well let's talk aboutyour journey through adversity.
So talk to us about your experience withinfertility and how you went through
that, the outcomes, the personal,the internal, external, all of it.
I want to hear about it.
Yeah, and thank you so much for giving methis opportunity to speak about it because
(17:23):
it really is something I'm so passionateabout and so many people struggle
when we talk about like our identityas motherhood and what that is like.
I, I hope that what I have toshare today will help people who
go through something like that.
Lots of people do.
I mean, it's just partof the human experience.
(17:44):
There's a lot of people strugglingwith wanting to be a mother and then
for whatever reason, physiologicalreasons or, or circumstances, they're
not able to have that experience.
That was what I was facing.
I went through, um, so this is theway I kind of like to explain it.
When I was younger and, you know, uh,a teenager and really not soon after
(18:08):
that, that I was getting married.
I was very young.
I was 19 when I got married.
So during those like early married years,I knew I was too young to even think
about having children yet, but I was verymuch like, that's my whole worldview.
Was that's what I, that's what.
drove every decision that I made.
(18:29):
That was what, um, I like to thinkof it as like, if I was driving in a
car, it was my view from every window.
My entire windshield was, this is my life.
If I'm going to be a mother, right?
Like I'm, that's justthe way it's going to be.
And it was when I was 26.
(18:49):
Um, and honestly, we weren't even reallyat that point ready to have children.
We weren't thinking about like,oh, let's try to start our family.
It was just kind of circumstances.
And like, obviously I knew somethingwasn't quite right with my body.
So going to the doctor and beinglike, well, what's going on?
And letting me know that I had FSHlevels that were way too high and
(19:12):
that, you know, they, they said, um,I don't know, you're kind of like in
perimenopause Your ovaries are failing.
It's what they kind of used to call earlymenopause, but really it was just, uh,
they call it now like ovarian failure.
And they're like, we don't knowwhy, but, um, it would be very, very
difficult for you to be able to conceive.
(19:33):
And I mean, it was, it was like takingthat whole windshield, that whole
view of my future, everything I had,I had gone to school, gone to college.
To become a teacher thinking thiswas a good career for motherhood.
This is maybe what I could alsoraise children and be a teacher,
elementary school teacher.
(19:54):
I mean, I made all these choicesbecause I was like, this is
what I want more than anything.
And that was like taking thatwindshield and just like putting
a build shattering spiderweb crackin it and being like, now what?
And that's really devastating.
I mean, that is really, a lotof women know that feeling.
(20:15):
A lot of people know that feeling of likeeverything I thought was going to happen.
Now, what do we do?
And I didn't really go into lookingat like, well, what, what's going
on with my body or whether Icould do other things like IVF.
I mean, we were so young and we werejust starting out in our careers.
It was like, we don'thave the money to do that.
(20:37):
And even like all of the things that I
I know a lot of women have that situationas well, because you're like, I'm looking
into things, I'm getting tests done,and the bills come back and insurance
won't cover this or that, or, um, I wasdenied insurance before all this because
(20:59):
my Menstrual cycle was a little off andwe were trying to get private insurance.
So at that point, that's all it took.
I hope we're in a situationnow where things are different.
But at that point in time, itwas like, the insurance was
like, no, we will not cover you.
You admitted to havingirregular menstrual cycle.
We don't know what that could mean.
(21:19):
We don't want to cover that.
So it was just like, bam, done.
And I, I mean, how can you not feel alittle bit broken and a little bit like.
I guess there's somethingreally wrong with me.
I guess that what I was meant to be,or what I thought I was meant to be.
Maybe that's not, or there'ssomething just inherently
(21:43):
wrong with me or broken about.
There's a lot of shamewrapped around that, right?
And if you know anything aboutenergy work, um, shame is the lowest
vibrating emotion on the energy scale.
So when you carry shame, that's heavy.
That's hard on the body, you know,and all of the, all of the lovely
(22:07):
side effects of that, includinglike my physical symptoms and stuff.
So, yeah, it was literallylike a deconstruction of.
Everything I thought I was goingto be, everything I thought my
identity was wrapped around,I had to completely let it go.
And I wasn't going to go looking atlike IVF for what sort of different
(22:30):
options we had at that point in time.
It was like, we don't have the money.
We don't, we don't have the insurance.
We don't have the, like, it'sjust not a possibility for us.
So we just had to wait andsee what was going to happen.
And, um, And I went through a very painfulhealing process of being able to say,
(22:52):
okay, what would that new life view, thatnew windshield I'm looking out at, what
would that look like if I don't have anyof what I thought I was going to have?
What if I do not have children atall in any way, shape, or form?
I do not have children thatI raise and that are mine.
(23:14):
I just, just see what that looks like.
And as painful as that was.
It was absolutely the mostwonderful thing that I could do.
And I always recommend it topeople who are going through
a transformation of any kind.
Because I've met people whoare in that same boat, but it's
(23:35):
their career they're looking at.
Or it's their, um, their family life.
Their, you know, they'regoing through a divorce.
They're going through, Imean, I call them mini deaths.
They're little deaths of life.
Like, we have to die.
Or some part of us has to die,and this is what was dying for me.
I was, you know, looking atmotherhood in a different way, and
(23:57):
how that would look in my life.
So I thought, if I thought motherhoodwas the only way that I was going to
get fulfilled, okay, what if that'snot the only way to be fulfilled?
And I think that's so healthy toconfront that, because like you
said, in all different areas,People don't usually consider that.
(24:18):
And if they do, then they're probablyat a better place to be open to what's
coming next, or they could be preparedfor what's coming or even just not
take for granted what they do have.
Because I know that I do that in my life.
I don't confront divorce because I don'treally want to face that or even consider
it, but I think that would be to just beopen to, you know, just for an example.
(24:44):
Yeah, because it is pretty shattering whenthat whole worldview shatters in a moment.
And I think I've had enough of thosemoments in my life, um, at least
a few, where I was facing that.
I was facing this like, I thought mylife would look like this and I'm facing
something that's gonna look Way different.
And it's possible that I'm goingto have to go down that path.
(25:08):
I'm going to have tolive that life instead.
So it's like, yeah, it's notso much negative thinking.
Like, I know we don't want to getinto traps of like, well, I'm always
going to think worst case scenario.
I'm always going to thinkof what's going to happen.
But it's like, I am not going to hindermy own personal worth on that view.
(25:29):
And I think that's where the beauty ofit can come from is what if my worth and
purpose and the way I show up in this lifelooks different than I thought it did.
So if my sister has childrenat that point, she didn't have
any, she's younger than me.
Um, I'm like, I will getto be this amazing aunt.
(25:53):
I mean, I get to show up as anaunt in whatever way I want.
And that is going to be so amazing too.
And You know, I chose a career as ateacher and I loved being a teacher and
I was pretty good at being a teacher,but I did choose teaching because I
thought it would be great career for kids.
Well, what if I didn'thave that restriction?
(26:14):
What if I could go back to school,get a master's degree or a doctorate?
in something completely my own choice,something that was not limited to what
would kind of fit in the realms of,of being a mother at the same time.
And that was exciting.
Like that's kind of an exciting thought.
Um, because you know, you dohave to kind of make choices
(26:37):
based on like responsibilities.
Right.
So I thought I don't haveto be limited to that.
I can get a degree in art history andthen to get another degree in, and
like, who cares about student loans?
Right.
Because Shoot, we could live in likethe tiniest little tiny home and
that's fine too because we don't havechildren to think about and we could
(26:58):
do, you know, all of a sudden my lifestarted to look pretty awesome once I
started to kind of go down that road.
And it was only when I faced that and wasable to look at it as actually a really
pretty amazing life that I could live.
That we were open to the possibilityof adoption or the other choices and
(27:25):
circumstances that came our way, whichended up being embryo adoption, um,
which was a, was a great option for usbecause my, my parts were all working
fine as long as my ovaries were involved.
So we had to borrow some, you know,some baby making materials from other
people and, and be able to make.
Um, the children that I do have.
(27:45):
I mean, I, I think it was reallyamazing going through some of the
adoption trainings and workshopswe went through where they, they,
um, counseled us on infertility andsaid, you need to understand that
parenthood does not resolve parenthood.
the pain and the trauma and the,you know, the feelings and emotions
(28:09):
that come with infertility.
And they're very, very true.
That's very, very true.
Because I have achieved, if you want tocall it that, I have achieved motherhood.
I made it.
I got to do it.
I even got to be pregnant and givebirth to my twins, which is amazing.
I mean, I'm so, So grateful forthat experience because not a lot
of people who have struggled withinfertility get to have that.
(28:32):
I'm very grateful.
And maybe even that experience of facinginfertility has made that, um, even
more amazing for me, or it was justsomething I could experience and be like.
I mean, I really relished it.
I was, I loved being pregnant.
I loved the whole experience of it.
I was just like, on cloud nine.
(28:53):
Nothing could deter me fromjust soaking in all the love and
beautifulness of being pregnant.
And it probably was prettymiserable, um, physically.
If I actually was able to rememberthat part, but I think, you know, being
facing infertility was able to give methat gratitude and appreciation for it.
(29:17):
Even though that's not always thecase, I am so grateful that it worked
out that way for you too, but I justwant to acknowledge too that it, You
know, I feel like some people get toexperience motherhood later in life or
after a set of circumstances and thenthey're like, Oh, well, I should be
grateful or I should enjoy every moment.
And I know we're going to touch onthat in a minute, as you alluded to,
(29:40):
but, you know, even though it did.
Make you more grateful, I'm sure, likeyou said, that there was still all that
infertility trauma to work through.
So how did that experience look?
Yeah, I, and I think this is reallyimportant for anyone who, whether they
go the route of adoption, foster care,um, you know, they end up doing something
(30:02):
like IVF or something like what I did,uh, embryo, they call it embryo adoption.
I just want to clarifyit's not actually adoption.
It's, it's a completely differentlegal process, but it's.
For lack of a betterterm, embryo adoption.
So what we went through, the circumstanceswe went through, the stories that made
our family what it is today, um, yeah,it's whatever circumstances that led us to
(30:29):
actually being able to achieve motherhood.
We still have to face thereality that motherhood is hard.
That, you know, there are moments whereI'm not super grateful to be a mom.
I'm like really frustrated and it's hard.
And in the healing work that I do, likeemotional healing, I always tell people
(30:52):
there are no better reflections of yourtriggers than children, I think, or
partners, sometimes, sometimes spouses.
So for that, it can be an experience ofbeing able to be like, um, wow, whatever
work I needed to do, whatever healingI needed done, it's definitely going to
(31:16):
be brought up in raising my kids becausethey're going to match me and they
are going to poke at whatever buttonsand whatever sticky cells I happen to
have, they're going to bring it out.
So there are moments where that is goingto trigger certain things in me that
are like, maybe I wasn't meant for this.
(31:40):
Maybe the question of whether, um, andyou know, it can be a question of God or
your spiritual higher power, it's like,did they make me infertile for a reason?
And that question comes up alot for me, like all the time,
like every day, probably.
That's a hard thing to face.
(32:01):
So to be brought with that,you know, again, we talk about
like motherhood as an identity.
It starts to really poke at you, thatquestion of what if I wasn't, what if
this wasn't meant to be my identityand I, you know, beat the odds or
I somehow tricked the universe intogiving, giving me these lives to
(32:23):
care for, and I'm just not adequate.
I am not good enough,because sometimes I'm not.
I mean, I do, I do feel thatprobably just as much as any mom.
I, I think you can attest to that's not a.
That's not like me in a vacuum feelingthat that's, uh, you know, women
(32:45):
who can achieve motherhood quiteeasily or happen to be very fertile.
Um, they probably havethose same questions.
And it's just, uh, it hits it a littledifferently because I've had to face that
physiological component of like, well,my body actually could not have children.
Like I am what the Old Testament would sayI'm a barren woman, or whatever they say.
(33:11):
You know, and so it's like, howmuch was this really my purpose?
How much of it was maybe my upbringingmaking me believe that this was my
purpose, the social and spiritual viewson how women exist and what their purpose
(33:32):
is, because that's always a component nomatter where you live, and no matter what
church you go to, it does seem to be thatthat's a topic of conversation, right?
Well, and the last thing I wanted to touchon was when you talked about shame being
at the bottom of the energy vibration.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
(33:53):
Cause I've been fascinatedwith that recently and just the
different emotions along that scale.
I have been kind of researchingresentment lately and that's
pretty low in the vibration scale.
And then fun is a higher vibration.
What would you, what is thehighest emotion on the scale
or some of the highest?
Yeah, and this comes from Power Vs.
(34:14):
Force.
Dave, uh, Dr.
David Hawkins, I believe, uh, did,you know, kinesiology, muscle testing,
and with large groups of people, like,putting emotions and even, like, points
of view on a certain scale, and sohe gave it, like, an energy level.
It's not the Hertz frequencies, butyou can correlate them, but it's like
(34:37):
energy level, energy level of the body.
So he just has like a calibration.
So he has like 700 to a thousandat the top of the scale is
enlightenment or total authenticity.
Like when we're able to be fullyin our most authentic selves or
behaving completely authentically,that would be at the very top.
(35:00):
And he mentions in the book thatnot many of us ever achieve that.
There's only a.
percentage of the population that couldever really fully like achieve that
even for certain moments or certainbecause I think we can achieve it.
in moments, right?
No one can just like sustain that level.
Um, and he kind of talks about likeascended masters or like masters like
(35:25):
Jesus and Buddha and Muhammad and likespiritual leaders of the, of history
that have been able to achieve that.
Enlightenment, total authenticity.
And then yeah, shame being at thevery bottom, um, which I want to just
clarify is, you know, Not like guilt,because guilt can be affected in ways
(35:48):
of like, I've, I've done somethingwrong, I feel guilty because of what
I've done or how I've harmed someoneor, you know, how I've interacted
in this situation or I've behaved.
And shame is, lower on thescale because it's, I am wrong.
I am a problem.
I am, there is somethinginherently wrong with me.
(36:10):
And, um, and that's where that, youknow, where infertility, that can come
at a crossroads because you feel likeif this was my purpose in life, or if
this is how I gain worthiness, um, ismaybe being able to have children and
being a mother, then you might carryaround a lot of shame in that I can't.
(36:31):
do that.
I, you know, for whatever reason, orI, you know, I went through years of
like, maybe it could still happen forme if I do acupuncture and if I do
this emotional healing and if I do, youknow, and I went down a lot of avenues
and naturopathic doctors and Otheravenues to, um, it wasn't until I was
(36:53):
actually doing my, uh, transfer formy twins when we were going that route
that they actually did an ultrasound.
This was the very first time I had everdone anything in that realm and, and
they were like, Oh, you know, looks likeyou don't have any eggs in your ovaries.
And I was like, Oh.
Well, none of those other thingswould have mattered anyway then.
(37:13):
I was like, I was nevergoing to naturally conceive.
Like that's when it was finalized for mewas like, it wasn't going to work anyway.
I mean, I could have done a lotof work on myself, but if I don't
have eggs, I don't have eggs.
So that's just the way that's gonna,but then there has to be that, you know,
that, uh, acknowledgement that, yes,it was something I couldn't control.
(37:37):
It was my body.
Um, and.
Being able to face the like, well,where do we find worthiness then?
Where do we find thatwe have inherent worth?
And that it's not correspondent tomotherhood, to being able to be a
mother, to how I show up as a mother,um, and it, and it can translate
(37:59):
into, it's not my career either.
It's not my position in the church.
It's not my position in my social group.
It's not, it's not any ofthese things, actually.
That's some of the work that I dowith people now, is being able to
say, what is it deep down inside?
At what age were you, or what?
(38:20):
You know, what happened where youmade some kind of decision where
this was how you got your worth?
And then when did you decidethat maybe you didn't have it?
You didn't have worth, right?
Yes.
I've worked through that a lot intherapy too, because I used to base my
worth on accomplishments or, you know,being the nice one or things like that.
And so, yeah.
(38:41):
You've opened our eyesto a lot of things today.
So thank you for just bringing thisconversation of openness and, you
know, just not being set on outcomesor set on, like you said, our one
thing that's going to prove ourworth or, you know, just being open
to growth experiences in general.
So how can people work withyou if they want to learn more?
(39:02):
You can find me at prism healing.
com.
That's P R I S M, as incolors and rainbow colors.
I have to clarify because itsounds like I'm saying prison.
It's not prison.
It's prism healing.
Um, and you can, yeah,you can find my website.
I'm also on Instagram.
(39:23):
Facebook and TikTok.
So if you search Courtney Pearl andPrism Healing, that's when I do the
work with people to help them dive deepinto those really difficult topics.
Great.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
We will link that in the shownotes and I just really want to
commend you for doing the healingwork that you are in the world.
(39:44):
And I know I have personallybenefited from it.
Thank you so much for having me on.
Yes.
And there you have it, myepisode with Jen was fantastic.
It was excellent to spend some timewith her and to talk about these things.
And I just want to shout out again,a big thank you to Jen for having
(40:07):
me on the show, even though itwas me reaching out to her saying,
please let me be on your show.
I just want to thank you for theopportunity and for letting me talk about
something that is so very precious to me.
Um, my role as a motherand how that came to be.
And what that means for people likeme who experience this sort of grief
(40:31):
and loss at what it feels like to,to have what you thought you were
going to have or the experience youthought you were going to have not be
what you thought it was going to be.
Um, I think for anyone out there who'sexperiencing that, uh, know that you are
not alone and that there are many ways.
(40:52):
to navigate life when you havesuch a deep and profound loss.
And then I also want to touch onbefore we finish today's episode.
I want to touch on the mother woundbecause the time that I spent in England
and some of the rituals and ceremoniesand sacred sites that I went to were along
(41:18):
the theme of motherhood and mother wounds.
And that for many of my clients, andmyself included, we have and can have
such deep love and respect for ourmothers, our own mothers who raised
us, and yet still suffer with whatevera mother wound would look like for us.
(41:39):
For many of us, we're battling thingslike our mother, our own mother, was a
person too and made mistakes even as theywere trying their best to love us and
to raise us the best way they knew how.
When I have clients come for anemotional process session, I will often
(42:01):
have to clarify or give permissionfor them to be angry at their
mothers and fathers for whatevermay have happened in their raising.
And for me, this, it can be sometimes,you know, just being an oldest daughter.
Uh, was I was my parents first go at beinga parent and I have wonderful parents.
(42:29):
I have parents that loved mevery much and who gave me a
life that I'm very grateful for.
And really, really, truly did their best.
And yet, as imperfect people can beimperfect, there was, um, and expectations
and criticisms that I had to endure or,um, I don't know if endure is the right
(42:56):
word, but like I had to work on myselfso that I could learn to love myself.
And.
That's part of my healing journeyand it is a very common theme for
just about anybody who's comingand doing a session with me.
If we're going to be going back toearly childhood and to early childhood
(43:18):
ages and working on suppressed anger orburden or generational healing, there are
going to be things about their mothersthat they're going to need to address.
Sometimes it's, it's anger at theirmothers, even when their mothers were
just doing their best, just living theirbest life and just trying really hard to
(43:40):
survive whatever they were going through.
But that does not negate or
doesn't cover up or excuse whatever thechild self wants or needs to express.
I'll just give a quick example.
Um, for some clients, when they'redoing a session with me, they may have
(44:04):
suppressed anger at their mother fornot paying enough attention to them.
So, um, I've had clients where in asession, they'll say something like, um,
I remember my mom being so busy becauseshe just had a new baby because we just
moved because we were building a housebecause we were You know, whatever,
whatever, whatever, all the reasons.
But they're like, oh yeah, I remember,I remember just wanting to get her
(44:26):
attention, trying to ask her forsomething or have her play with me.
And she said, no, I'm busy.
Now, any mother in the history ofthe planet would listen to that
and go, well, yeah, of course.
I mean, we're busy.
We're busy.
Moms are busy.
Okay.
We've got a lot going on.
We can't just stop everything andplay with our kids all the time.
And that's perfectly reasonable.
(44:47):
Nobody is saying that you haveto do that to be a good mother.
But what matters is what thechild in the session, my client,
what their child self felt.
That is what needs tobe felt and expressed.
The wounds are what they felt about it.
(45:10):
It's not whether or notmom was right or wrong.
It's just how did the child feel?
And if they felt that way, what maybe didthey start to believe about themselves?
Because there may have been some attachedbelief systems that came from that.
Like, I'm not lovable.
Or I'm not good enough.
to get my mom's attention,to have her love.
(45:34):
So a lot of the healing work thatI do is healing mother wounds.
And I remember this one momentwhen we went inside the earth,
we were inside one of the burrowswhere they had, um, burials.
Um, the ancient people, pre Celtic times,they would bury their dead in these
burrows and they had these little rooms.
(45:55):
So it would be like dug into a hill orthe hill would be made around it, but
it would be in a little opening andthen you would have these little rooms.
And one of them we went to wasactually in the shape of a woman.
Uh, I don't know if that was intentional,but we thought it was interesting
that the opening or the hole islike where a woman would give birth.
(46:17):
And when you go into theburrow, there was these little
rooms that looked like a head.
arms and legs.
So you could go in and you couldgo into these little rooms.
These rooms used to have human remains.
These, they have been excavated, butnow people can go in and, and, and
just be inside and experience that.
(46:39):
And one of the times, uh, our leader hadasked us, um, to go in there and spend
some time in there and just imagine thatwe were in the womb of mother earth.
And what that would feel like.
And I remember doing that andthinking, um, I had seen little
flowers and little offerings on therocks inside those Those little tombs.
(47:03):
And I thought, oh people have comeand left offerings to the Goddess.
And I didn't bring anything.
And I felt so guilty and so like,ugh, why didn't I think of that?
Why didn't I think to bring something?
Just something to honor MotherEarth and to just give my gratitude
(47:24):
and to show up with something.
I never I never think to do that.
I'm not a gift giving person.
It's not really my, mything, but I felt guilty.
And then I felt this very powerful, lovingenergy that told me deep in my heart.
Why do you always do that?
Why do you always thinkyou didn't do enough?
(47:45):
You never think you're enough.
And then this loving energy thatmade me feel like you came and
you sang a song as an offering.
Which we had done earlier.
We had sung and chanted togetheras a group, and that was enough.
You're enough.
What you brought is enough.
(48:06):
And that's not somethingI'm used to hearing.
Not from my mother or frommyself or anyone really.
So I just, I started crying becauseit was exactly what I needed to hear.
It was healing a mother wound I had.
So here it was just saying, you're enough.
You're doing enough.
(48:27):
You are enough.
You've given enough.
What you gave was enough.
And that was really powerful.
So I would invite you listeners, mymagic wizards and witches who are
listening today, I would invite youthat as mothers or as someone with
(48:48):
a mother, that you do the work ofdeconstructing what mother means to you.
What is it that the needs are that youneed met from the mother, whether it's
a heavenly mother, whether it's, Itwould have been your mother who raised
you, or the expectations you wouldhave had that did not get fulfilled.
(49:12):
And that you are nowtrying to fulfill yourself.
And this awareness and thishealing work is all about that.
It's all about being aware of whatit is we need, and then working
on getting it for ourselves.
Not expecting other people to doit for us, but actually feeling it.
Finding the ways to get our needs met.
(49:34):
And as always, if you need help inthat department, I highly recommend
seeing a facilitator like myselfwho can help you with that work.
So if you're thinking to yourself,I don't even know where to begin.
I know I have mother wounds,but I don't know what they are.
And I don't even know where tobegin looking at that for myself.
I'm going to ask you toplease reach out to me.
(49:57):
This is why I do what I do.
And this is why healers like me do whatwe do because we have been working hard
at healing and we know what that feelslike and we couldn't do it alone either.
So if you need some help in that,please reach out to me and you can
find me on my website, prism healing.
(50:19):
com.
P R I S M.
Healing.
com and you can see there on my mainpage of my website all of the services
that I offer, but I highly recommendthe integrative processing technique,
which is emotional processing.
That is what's really going toprobably cut to the core of what
(50:40):
is it that you need to work.
on and what is buried maybe inyour past or your subconscious.
I would also like to invite you to lookfor me on Instagram prism underscore
healing on tiktok prism healing.
And on Facebook, CourtneyPearl's Prism Healing.
(51:01):
And if you've liked this episode orany of the episodes that I have done
on Practically Magic, I would pleaseask you to follow, subscribe or share
your favorite episode with a friend.
It will help us to be able to makemore episodes and more content for you.
And it will make sure that when there'snew episodes out, you will get notified.
(51:21):
So please like, follow, and share.
And until next time, go makemagic, witches and wizards.
Good evening, witches and wizards.
Thank you for joining me.
This is Practically Magicwith Courtney Pearl.
Today is a very special episode becauseit is actually not me that is hosting.
Um, the episode you are about to heartoday is going to be from an episode
of Let Yourself Bloom with Jen Banks.
(00:45):
Um, I shamelessly asked her if shewould have me on her podcast to
talk about a very specific subjectthat is very important to me.
Um, and she talks a lot about on herpodcast, finding your identity through
motherhood, that for a lot of women, Wetend to lose ourselves in being mothers,
(01:13):
being of service to our family, and thatshe is of the belief that people can
retain their identity and even Blossom orbloom within that identity of motherhood,
um, with the things that are importantand matter to us and what is our purpose.
(01:34):
And I specifically reachedout to her because I have an
experience with infertility.
And I wanted to talk with herspecifically about what women who
go through infertility feel like andwhere that connects with our identity
(01:58):
and in pursuit of our purpose.
So that is what you're going to hearwith our conversation from her episode.
I just wanted to add in a little bit of myown magic when talking about this subject.
So before we get to the episode that,um, that I'm going to show you, I
(02:20):
would like to start it out in thePractically Magic way and do a card
reading and a little storytelling tohelp introduce us and introduce what
it is that Jen and I talked about.
So the first thing that I want to do ispull a card and I've chosen the goddess
(02:40):
power oracle deck for this because to me,when asked about mothers and women power,
um, I specifically think about goddesses.
The goddesses of mythology and who itis that I relate to or honor when it
(03:00):
comes to my My own deities and my ownworship is I think of the goddess.
So the goddess oracle deck, goddess poweroracle deck, we're going to choose a card
and the card that comes up.
Oh, this is absolutely perfectfor what we're going to talk about
today because this is the Kali card.
(03:23):
I'm showing it on the screen forthose who are watching on YouTube.
Kali or, uh, the word that is associatedhere in the deck is liberation.
I want to share an experience that I hadin England last year, um, because I think
it falls perfectly in line with this card.
(03:43):
Kali being the goddess ofdestruction and creation.
And The belief system around, um, thepeoples that worship Kali or that, um,
it's part of their mythology is that Thecreative energy of the universe is also
the energy that has to be destructive.
(04:07):
And that can sound really scary,but it's actually really beautiful.
Um, and the way that I think of thatis the way that a caterpillar has to
completely deconstruct or destroy or,uh, take apart cell by cell its own body.
(04:30):
In order to transform and bereborn into the butterfly.
That, to me, is a perfect symbol for whatit means when we have to We have to honor
the destruction as well as honoring thebuilding and the creating of something.
(04:55):
They are the same energy or theyare coming from the same place.
And why I feel like this needs to comeup, um, so this experience that I had
in England, um, when I went, we dida ritual ceremony at the Red Spring.
um, in the Chalice Well Gardens.
(05:18):
Um, the ritual was specifically toidentify the legend of the Well Maidens.
The Well Maidens were keeping the HolyGrail safe, uh, near the well and their
job was to bring it out at certain timesof the year and festivals to honor and to
(05:39):
display the Holy Grail and the Chalice.
And the story goes that these maidenswere attacked when the area or the
land was invaded and some of the wellmaidens ran away, some were killed,
(06:00):
some were violated, and it was very,very much a dishonor on the maidens
themselves, who were the guardians of thechalice, but also of the chalice well.
And, um, the way that the legendgoes, we were asked to think
of what had been taken from us.
(06:23):
in our past, something that we felt wasa violation or an injustice done to us,
and that as we concluded this ritual,we would reclaim that for ourselves, and
we would step into our own sovereignty.
through this experience.
(06:44):
And I really didn't have anyintention in mind when I went into it.
Uh, when I thought about what Iwould want to reclaim, there wasn't
something that stood out to me aslike, Oh, this is what I'm here for.
This is definitely whatthis ritual is for, for me.
It wasn't until we did a certainpart of the ceremony where One
by one individually, we wereasked to go in and we were to
(07:06):
stand in front of the red spring.
So where the spring comes out, there'sa little trickle or river or little
creek that they, they filter the waterthrough and then they come, it comes
down this waterfall and into a pool.
And at this point, you go through agate and there's this little area.
(07:26):
I did a painting of this area becauseit was so sacred and special to me.
This little area where there's a pool.
And the water, it is so thick withiron that all of the rocks and, um,
the pool where it's where the watercomes and collects, it's all red.
And if you spend any time in the water,if you walk in it, or if you, um,
(07:53):
if you, uh, fill up yourcanteen with it, it will be red.
It will be stained red becausethere's so much iron in the water.
And that's why it's the red spring.
So, um, Um, it's a very sacred pilgrimage.
It's a sacred place for a lot ofpagans and Christians alike because
of the legend of the Holy Grail, um,believed to have been brought there.
And, um, this is in Glastonbury,by the way, if you didn't know.
(08:17):
Um, so it's very red.
The little waterfall area is red.
And we were asked to straddle thewater, the, the little creek as it
came down before it goes into the pool.
We were asked to put one leg on each sideand then just look into the waterfall and
identify what it was we were reclaiming.
(08:40):
And it wasn't until that moment that Irealized that with my infertility, with
the, um, the identity of wanting to be amother and not being given the chance to
be a mother in the way that I imagined Iwould be, the way most women in a natural
state just get pregnant and have a baby.
(09:03):
I didn't realize how veryviolated I felt at having had that
opportunity taken away from me.
And even at this point,I had had my children.
I have three sons, I have three childrenand I have, I'm a parent, I'm a mom.
But in that moment I realized howmuch that transcript, Separate from
(09:28):
parenthood, that had been taken from me.
That that felt like a violation.
And that the flow of blood ina typical healthy menstrual
cycle was also taken from me.
It's interesting about that is, whenI was a teenager, going through, like,
(09:49):
the maturation classes and thingsthat you take and they talk about,
you know, what, what a woman's bodyis going to do, I was terrified.
I was not somebody who waslooking forward to that.
I was like, oh no, I can't believe thatwomen have to go through that every month.
And yet, when I was no longer able, mybody was not able to do that anymore,
(10:16):
I didn't realize the grief that Iwould feel at having that taken away.
And that moment was reallyprecious to me, really sacred.
And I'm sharing that publicly becauseI feel it is so important for everyone
Whether you're a man, a woman, whetheryou want to have children or don't
want to have children, whether you'rea mother or not a mother, whatever it
is, I think it's important for us tohear each other's experiences and to
(10:41):
normalize that and to make it okay andto know that whatever it is you are
going through, you're not alone in that.
So for me, that was very sacredto be able to stand in that moment
and say, this was taken from me.
This, this particular path tomotherhood was taken from me.
(11:03):
It wasn't my choice and it was aviolation and an injustice and now I
get to feel that, express that, andreclaim my role, my own sovereignty in
motherhood or in whatever that looks like.
(11:25):
So we're going to talk a little bitmore about, uh, mother wounds and
what that means and what that lookslike, especially in healing work.
But first I am going to Turn the timeover, if that's not too triggering
for some people who know that phrasefrom certain cultures and groups.
(11:46):
I am going to turn the time over to theepisode that I recorded with Jen and
listen to what it was like to, um, toprocess that identity of motherhood when
When also processing the infertility,being a barren woman, if, if you will.
(12:10):
Hello, welcome to the LetYourself Bloom podcast.
I am so excited to be here with Courtney.
Welcome.
Hi!
I have had Courtney before on myAS for Adversity podcast and I
am excited to have her back forthe Let Yourself Bloom podcast.
Today we will be talkingabout all things motherhood,
(12:30):
infertility, and the journey there.
So I like to ask guests a question and Ihave a special deck that I pull it from.
We've done this at DBC a couple times,but it's just a table topics question.
And so I pulled it this morningknowing that we were going to be
doing this interview and I reallywas channeling my inner Courtney
(12:51):
when you pull your tarot cards.
And so I, I felt the deck and I was.
Trying to get it to the right one.
And it says, why are some peopleable to overcome adversity?
And so I thought that was so importantfor today because we are talking about
infertility and the struggles there.
And then just as a nod to my previouspodcast, but what are your thoughts?
(13:13):
Why do you think some peopleare able to overcome it?
And then other people, it seems likethey're kind of succumbed by it.
This is such a great question becauseit really applies to a lot of the
healing work that I do with clientsand with, um, we're doing emotional
and energy healing, um, and partneringit with also the neuroscience around
what people's brains are doing whenthey're developing, when they're young.
(13:37):
I think that Whether they make sense ornot, we come up with ways of handling
things that we bump up against, right?
So what I explain, um, and I just wasable to do last week, our first class
in our full moon course, which we wereable to kind of talk about how when
you're, young, even in the womb, you'realready developing these neural pathways
(14:03):
that are trying to get a need met.
And it's really just about chemical needs,but those chemical needs are reinforced
with like these basic human needs.
We all want, we all wantsome certainty and control.
Um, we feel safe when we feel likewe know what's going to happen.
Uh, we all want love and connectionin some way, shape or form.
(14:24):
However, we developthat way of getting it.
And you know, it partnerswith that oxytocin that our
chemical brain is getting.
So I think that, you know, when,when asking a question, like, why
do some people are able to do this?
And some people are not, somepeople bump up against something.
Um, I'm reminded of a book and I can't forthe life of me, remember right now what
(14:47):
book it is, but we'll just have to findit later and put it in the show notes.
It was a book about someone who wasin a, like, prisoner of war camp
for seven years, I want to say, andhe, all of these other soldiers that
were captured were like, going crazy.
Like they were in really awfulconditions and secluded and like it
(15:13):
was not at all pleasant place to be.
Some of them were tortured andfor whatever reason, some of them
were just like mentally broken.
Like they were not even who theywere when they came back out of it.
It really was a difficult situation.
And he thrived in the sameenvironment that they were all.
(15:35):
And that's not to say that thereare some people that are like, Oh,
you're stronger than everyone else.
It's to say that like, The way he changedhis neural pathways to be able to seek
his chemical needs, he changed what waswithin rather than being able to change
the circumstances he was in, right?
So he was still able to figure outa way to meet a need of love and
(15:57):
connection, of certainty and control,of variety, uh, which is like the
endorphins, um, all of those basichuman needs that I teach about.
Somehow he was still able to convincehis brain he was gonna get those, or
he was still getting them, even when hewasn't, by just changing perspective.
So that he was able to go throughseven years as a prisoner of war, and
(16:20):
still be able to come out of it like, Ithrived in it, I grew, I was different.
Better for it.
So yeah, that's Viktor Frankl, man.
Search for meaning.
Oh, thank you.
Yes, so true.
I love his quote and wealways need this reminder.
So I just want to read it.
Between stimulus andresponse, there is a space.
(16:40):
In that space is our powerto choose our response.
In our response lies ourgrowth and our freedom.
And I just love that becauseit's in that little space.
And sometimes we don't even noticethat space, but as we slow down
and identify it, you're right.
That's where our power is tochange those neural pathways.
I'll leave it to you, Jen.
You knew the book, youknow it, you got it.
Thank you so much.
(17:01):
I do kind of like quotes.
Okay, well let's talk aboutyour journey through adversity.
So talk to us about your experience withinfertility and how you went through
that, the outcomes, the personal,the internal, external, all of it.
I want to hear about it.
Yeah, and thank you so much for giving methis opportunity to speak about it because
(17:23):
it really is something I'm so passionateabout and so many people struggle
when we talk about like our identityas motherhood and what that is like.
I, I hope that what I have toshare today will help people who
go through something like that.
Lots of people do.
I mean, it's just partof the human experience.
(17:44):
There's a lot of people strugglingwith wanting to be a mother and then
for whatever reason, physiologicalreasons or, or circumstances, they're
not able to have that experience.
That was what I was facing.
I went through, um, so this is theway I kind of like to explain it.
When I was younger and, you know, uh,a teenager and really not soon after
(18:08):
that, that I was getting married.
I was very young.
I was 19 when I got married.
So during those like early married years,I knew I was too young to even think
about having children yet, but I was verymuch like, that's my whole worldview.
Was that's what I, that's what.
drove every decision that I made.
(18:29):
That was what, um, I like to thinkof it as like, if I was driving in a
car, it was my view from every window.
My entire windshield was, this is my life.
If I'm going to be a mother, right?
Like I'm, that's justthe way it's going to be.
And it was when I was 26.
(18:49):
Um, and honestly, we weren't even reallyat that point ready to have children.
We weren't thinking about like,oh, let's try to start our family.
It was just kind of circumstances.
And like, obviously I knew somethingwasn't quite right with my body.
So going to the doctor and beinglike, well, what's going on?
And letting me know that I had FSHlevels that were way too high and
(19:12):
that, you know, they, they said, um,I don't know, you're kind of like in
perimenopause Your ovaries are failing.
It's what they kind of used to call earlymenopause, but really it was just, uh,
they call it now like ovarian failure.
And they're like, we don't knowwhy, but, um, it would be very, very
difficult for you to be able to conceive.
(19:33):
And I mean, it was, it was like takingthat whole windshield, that whole
view of my future, everything I had,I had gone to school, gone to college.
To become a teacher thinking thiswas a good career for motherhood.
This is maybe what I could alsoraise children and be a teacher,
elementary school teacher.
(19:54):
I mean, I made all these choicesbecause I was like, this is
what I want more than anything.
And that was like taking thatwindshield and just like putting
a build shattering spiderweb crackin it and being like, now what?
And that's really devastating.
I mean, that is really, a lotof women know that feeling.
(20:15):
A lot of people know that feeling of likeeverything I thought was going to happen.
Now, what do we do?
And I didn't really go into lookingat like, well, what, what's going
on with my body or whether Icould do other things like IVF.
I mean, we were so young and we werejust starting out in our careers.
It was like, we don'thave the money to do that.
(20:37):
And even like all of the things that I
I know a lot of women have that situationas well, because you're like, I'm looking
into things, I'm getting tests done,and the bills come back and insurance
won't cover this or that, or, um, I wasdenied insurance before all this because
(20:59):
my Menstrual cycle was a little off andwe were trying to get private insurance.
So at that point, that's all it took.
I hope we're in a situationnow where things are different.
But at that point in time, itwas like, the insurance was
like, no, we will not cover you.
You admitted to havingirregular menstrual cycle.
We don't know what that could mean.
(21:19):
We don't want to cover that.
So it was just like, bam, done.
And I, I mean, how can you not feel alittle bit broken and a little bit like.
I guess there's somethingreally wrong with me.
I guess that what I was meant to be,or what I thought I was meant to be.
Maybe that's not, or there'ssomething just inherently
(21:43):
wrong with me or broken about.
There's a lot of shamewrapped around that, right?
And if you know anything aboutenergy work, um, shame is the lowest
vibrating emotion on the energy scale.
So when you carry shame, that's heavy.
That's hard on the body, you know,and all of the, all of the lovely
(22:07):
side effects of that, includinglike my physical symptoms and stuff.
So, yeah, it was literallylike a deconstruction of.
Everything I thought I was goingto be, everything I thought my
identity was wrapped around,I had to completely let it go.
And I wasn't going to go looking atlike IVF for what sort of different
(22:30):
options we had at that point in time.
It was like, we don't have the money.
We don't, we don't have the insurance.
We don't have the, like, it'sjust not a possibility for us.
So we just had to wait andsee what was going to happen.
And, um, And I went through a very painfulhealing process of being able to say,
(22:52):
okay, what would that new life view, thatnew windshield I'm looking out at, what
would that look like if I don't have anyof what I thought I was going to have?
What if I do not have children atall in any way, shape, or form?
I do not have children thatI raise and that are mine.
(23:14):
I just, just see what that looks like.
And as painful as that was.
It was absolutely the mostwonderful thing that I could do.
And I always recommend it topeople who are going through
a transformation of any kind.
Because I've met people whoare in that same boat, but it's
(23:35):
their career they're looking at.
Or it's their, um, their family life.
Their, you know, they'regoing through a divorce.
They're going through, Imean, I call them mini deaths.
They're little deaths of life.
Like, we have to die.
Or some part of us has to die,and this is what was dying for me.
I was, you know, looking atmotherhood in a different way, and
(23:57):
how that would look in my life.
So I thought, if I thought motherhoodwas the only way that I was going to
get fulfilled, okay, what if that'snot the only way to be fulfilled?
And I think that's so healthy toconfront that, because like you
said, in all different areas,People don't usually consider that.
(24:18):
And if they do, then they're probablyat a better place to be open to what's
coming next, or they could be preparedfor what's coming or even just not
take for granted what they do have.
Because I know that I do that in my life.
I don't confront divorce because I don'treally want to face that or even consider
it, but I think that would be to just beopen to, you know, just for an example.
(24:44):
Yeah, because it is pretty shattering whenthat whole worldview shatters in a moment.
And I think I've had enough of thosemoments in my life, um, at least
a few, where I was facing that.
I was facing this like, I thought mylife would look like this and I'm facing
something that's gonna look Way different.
And it's possible that I'm goingto have to go down that path.
(25:08):
I'm going to have tolive that life instead.
So it's like, yeah, it's notso much negative thinking.
Like, I know we don't want to getinto traps of like, well, I'm always
going to think worst case scenario.
I'm always going to thinkof what's going to happen.
But it's like, I am not going to hindermy own personal worth on that view.
(25:29):
And I think that's where the beauty ofit can come from is what if my worth and
purpose and the way I show up in this lifelooks different than I thought it did.
So if my sister has childrenat that point, she didn't have
any, she's younger than me.
Um, I'm like, I will getto be this amazing aunt.
(25:53):
I mean, I get to show up as anaunt in whatever way I want.
And that is going to be so amazing too.
And You know, I chose a career as ateacher and I loved being a teacher and
I was pretty good at being a teacher,but I did choose teaching because I
thought it would be great career for kids.
Well, what if I didn'thave that restriction?
(26:14):
What if I could go back to school,get a master's degree or a doctorate?
in something completely my own choice,something that was not limited to what
would kind of fit in the realms of,of being a mother at the same time.
And that was exciting.
Like that's kind of an exciting thought.
Um, because you know, you dohave to kind of make choices
(26:37):
based on like responsibilities.
Right.
So I thought I don't haveto be limited to that.
I can get a degree in art history andthen to get another degree in, and
like, who cares about student loans?
Right.
Because Shoot, we could live in likethe tiniest little tiny home and
that's fine too because we don't havechildren to think about and we could
(26:58):
do, you know, all of a sudden my lifestarted to look pretty awesome once I
started to kind of go down that road.
And it was only when I faced that and wasable to look at it as actually a really
pretty amazing life that I could live.
That we were open to the possibilityof adoption or the other choices and
(27:25):
circumstances that came our way, whichended up being embryo adoption, um,
which was a, was a great option for usbecause my, my parts were all working
fine as long as my ovaries were involved.
So we had to borrow some, you know,some baby making materials from other
people and, and be able to make.
Um, the children that I do have.
(27:45):
I mean, I, I think it was reallyamazing going through some of the
adoption trainings and workshopswe went through where they, they,
um, counseled us on infertility andsaid, you need to understand that
parenthood does not resolve parenthood.
the pain and the trauma and the,you know, the feelings and emotions
(28:09):
that come with infertility.
And they're very, very true.
That's very, very true.
Because I have achieved, if you want tocall it that, I have achieved motherhood.
I made it.
I got to do it.
I even got to be pregnant and givebirth to my twins, which is amazing.
I mean, I'm so, So grateful forthat experience because not a lot
of people who have struggled withinfertility get to have that.
(28:32):
I'm very grateful.
And maybe even that experience of facinginfertility has made that, um, even
more amazing for me, or it was justsomething I could experience and be like.
I mean, I really relished it.
I was, I loved being pregnant.
I loved the whole experience of it.
I was just like, on cloud nine.
(28:53):
Nothing could deter me fromjust soaking in all the love and
beautifulness of being pregnant.
And it probably was prettymiserable, um, physically.
If I actually was able to rememberthat part, but I think, you know, being
facing infertility was able to give methat gratitude and appreciation for it.
(29:17):
Even though that's not always thecase, I am so grateful that it worked
out that way for you too, but I justwant to acknowledge too that it, You
know, I feel like some people get toexperience motherhood later in life or
after a set of circumstances and thenthey're like, Oh, well, I should be
grateful or I should enjoy every moment.
And I know we're going to touch onthat in a minute, as you alluded to,
(29:40):
but, you know, even though it did.
Make you more grateful, I'm sure, likeyou said, that there was still all that
infertility trauma to work through.
So how did that experience look?
Yeah, I, and I think this is reallyimportant for anyone who, whether they
go the route of adoption, foster care,um, you know, they end up doing something
(30:02):
like IVF or something like what I did,uh, embryo, they call it embryo adoption.
I just want to clarifyit's not actually adoption.
It's, it's a completely differentlegal process, but it's.
For lack of a betterterm, embryo adoption.
So what we went through, the circumstanceswe went through, the stories that made
our family what it is today, um, yeah,it's whatever circumstances that led us to
(30:29):
actually being able to achieve motherhood.
We still have to face thereality that motherhood is hard.
That, you know, there are moments whereI'm not super grateful to be a mom.
I'm like really frustrated and it's hard.
And in the healing work that I do, likeemotional healing, I always tell people
(30:52):
there are no better reflections of yourtriggers than children, I think, or
partners, sometimes, sometimes spouses.
So for that, it can be an experience ofbeing able to be like, um, wow, whatever
work I needed to do, whatever healingI needed done, it's definitely going to
(31:16):
be brought up in raising my kids becausethey're going to match me and they
are going to poke at whatever buttonsand whatever sticky cells I happen to
have, they're going to bring it out.
So there are moments where that is goingto trigger certain things in me that
are like, maybe I wasn't meant for this.
(31:40):
Maybe the question of whether, um, andyou know, it can be a question of God or
your spiritual higher power, it's like,did they make me infertile for a reason?
And that question comes up alot for me, like all the time,
like every day, probably.
That's a hard thing to face.
(32:01):
So to be brought with that,you know, again, we talk about
like motherhood as an identity.
It starts to really poke at you, thatquestion of what if I wasn't, what if
this wasn't meant to be my identityand I, you know, beat the odds or
I somehow tricked the universe intogiving, giving me these lives to
(32:23):
care for, and I'm just not adequate.
I am not good enough,because sometimes I'm not.
I mean, I do, I do feel thatprobably just as much as any mom.
I, I think you can attest to that's not a.
That's not like me in a vacuum feelingthat that's, uh, you know, women
(32:45):
who can achieve motherhood quiteeasily or happen to be very fertile.
Um, they probably havethose same questions.
And it's just, uh, it hits it a littledifferently because I've had to face that
physiological component of like, well,my body actually could not have children.
Like I am what the Old Testament would sayI'm a barren woman, or whatever they say.
(33:11):
You know, and so it's like, howmuch was this really my purpose?
How much of it was maybe my upbringingmaking me believe that this was my
purpose, the social and spiritual viewson how women exist and what their purpose
(33:32):
is, because that's always a component nomatter where you live, and no matter what
church you go to, it does seem to be thatthat's a topic of conversation, right?
Well, and the last thing I wanted to touchon was when you talked about shame being
at the bottom of the energy vibration.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
(33:53):
Cause I've been fascinatedwith that recently and just the
different emotions along that scale.
I have been kind of researchingresentment lately and that's
pretty low in the vibration scale.
And then fun is a higher vibration.
What would you, what is thehighest emotion on the scale
or some of the highest?
Yeah, and this comes from Power Vs.
(34:14):
Force.
Dave, uh, Dr.
David Hawkins, I believe, uh, did,you know, kinesiology, muscle testing,
and with large groups of people, like,putting emotions and even, like, points
of view on a certain scale, and sohe gave it, like, an energy level.
It's not the Hertz frequencies, butyou can correlate them, but it's like
(34:37):
energy level, energy level of the body.
So he just has like a calibration.
So he has like 700 to a thousandat the top of the scale is
enlightenment or total authenticity.
Like when we're able to be fullyin our most authentic selves or
behaving completely authentically,that would be at the very top.
(35:00):
And he mentions in the book thatnot many of us ever achieve that.
There's only a.
percentage of the population that couldever really fully like achieve that
even for certain moments or certainbecause I think we can achieve it.
in moments, right?
No one can just like sustain that level.
Um, and he kind of talks about likeascended masters or like masters like
(35:25):
Jesus and Buddha and Muhammad and likespiritual leaders of the, of history
that have been able to achieve that.
Enlightenment, total authenticity.
And then yeah, shame being at thevery bottom, um, which I want to just
clarify is, you know, Not like guilt,because guilt can be affected in ways
(35:48):
of like, I've, I've done somethingwrong, I feel guilty because of what
I've done or how I've harmed someoneor, you know, how I've interacted
in this situation or I've behaved.
And shame is, lower on thescale because it's, I am wrong.
I am a problem.
I am, there is somethinginherently wrong with me.
(36:10):
And, um, and that's where that, youknow, where infertility, that can come
at a crossroads because you feel likeif this was my purpose in life, or if
this is how I gain worthiness, um, ismaybe being able to have children and
being a mother, then you might carryaround a lot of shame in that I can't.
(36:31):
do that.
I, you know, for whatever reason, orI, you know, I went through years of
like, maybe it could still happen forme if I do acupuncture and if I do
this emotional healing and if I do, youknow, and I went down a lot of avenues
and naturopathic doctors and Otheravenues to, um, it wasn't until I was
(36:53):
actually doing my, uh, transfer formy twins when we were going that route
that they actually did an ultrasound.
This was the very first time I had everdone anything in that realm and, and
they were like, Oh, you know, looks likeyou don't have any eggs in your ovaries.
And I was like, Oh.
Well, none of those other thingswould have mattered anyway then.
(37:13):
I was like, I was nevergoing to naturally conceive.
Like that's when it was finalized for mewas like, it wasn't going to work anyway.
I mean, I could have done a lotof work on myself, but if I don't
have eggs, I don't have eggs.
So that's just the way that's gonna,but then there has to be that, you know,
that, uh, acknowledgement that, yes,it was something I couldn't control.
(37:37):
It was my body.
Um, and.
Being able to face the like, well,where do we find worthiness then?
Where do we find thatwe have inherent worth?
And that it's not correspondent tomotherhood, to being able to be a
mother, to how I show up as a mother,um, and it, and it can translate
(37:59):
into, it's not my career either.
It's not my position in the church.
It's not my position in my social group.
It's not, it's not any ofthese things, actually.
That's some of the work that I dowith people now, is being able to
say, what is it deep down inside?
At what age were you, or what?
(38:20):
You know, what happened where youmade some kind of decision where
this was how you got your worth?
And then when did you decidethat maybe you didn't have it?
You didn't have worth, right?
Yes.
I've worked through that a lot intherapy too, because I used to base my
worth on accomplishments or, you know,being the nice one or things like that.
And so, yeah.
(38:41):
You've opened our eyesto a lot of things today.
So thank you for just bringing thisconversation of openness and, you
know, just not being set on outcomesor set on, like you said, our one
thing that's going to prove ourworth or, you know, just being open
to growth experiences in general.
So how can people work withyou if they want to learn more?
(39:02):
You can find me at prism healing.
com.
That's P R I S M, as incolors and rainbow colors.
I have to clarify because itsounds like I'm saying prison.
It's not prison.
It's prism healing.
Um, and you can, yeah,you can find my website.
I'm also on Instagram.
(39:23):
Facebook and TikTok.
So if you search Courtney Pearl andPrism Healing, that's when I do the
work with people to help them dive deepinto those really difficult topics.
Great.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
We will link that in the shownotes and I just really want to
commend you for doing the healingwork that you are in the world.
(39:44):
And I know I have personallybenefited from it.
Thank you so much for having me on.
Yes.
And there you have it, myepisode with Jen was fantastic.
It was excellent to spend some timewith her and to talk about these things.
And I just want to shout out again,a big thank you to Jen for having
(40:07):
me on the show, even though itwas me reaching out to her saying,
please let me be on your show.
I just want to thank you for theopportunity and for letting me talk about
something that is so very precious to me.
Um, my role as a motherand how that came to be.
And what that means for people likeme who experience this sort of grief
(40:31):
and loss at what it feels like to,to have what you thought you were
going to have or the experience youthought you were going to have not be
what you thought it was going to be.
Um, I think for anyone out there who'sexperiencing that, uh, know that you are
not alone and that there are many ways.
(40:52):
to navigate life when you havesuch a deep and profound loss.
And then I also want to touch onbefore we finish today's episode.
I want to touch on the mother woundbecause the time that I spent in England
and some of the rituals and ceremoniesand sacred sites that I went to were along
(41:18):
the theme of motherhood and mother wounds.
And that for many of my clients, andmyself included, we have and can have
such deep love and respect for ourmothers, our own mothers who raised
us, and yet still suffer with whatevera mother wound would look like for us.
(41:39):
For many of us, we're battling thingslike our mother, our own mother, was a
person too and made mistakes even as theywere trying their best to love us and
to raise us the best way they knew how.
When I have clients come for anemotional process session, I will often
(42:01):
have to clarify or give permissionfor them to be angry at their
mothers and fathers for whatevermay have happened in their raising.
And for me, this, it can be sometimes,you know, just being an oldest daughter.
Uh, was I was my parents first go at beinga parent and I have wonderful parents.
(42:29):
I have parents that loved mevery much and who gave me a
life that I'm very grateful for.
And really, really, truly did their best.
And yet, as imperfect people can beimperfect, there was, um, and expectations
and criticisms that I had to endure or,um, I don't know if endure is the right
(42:56):
word, but like I had to work on myselfso that I could learn to love myself.
And.
That's part of my healing journeyand it is a very common theme for
just about anybody who's comingand doing a session with me.
If we're going to be going back toearly childhood and to early childhood
(43:18):
ages and working on suppressed anger orburden or generational healing, there are
going to be things about their mothersthat they're going to need to address.
Sometimes it's, it's anger at theirmothers, even when their mothers were
just doing their best, just living theirbest life and just trying really hard to
(43:40):
survive whatever they were going through.
But that does not negate or
doesn't cover up or excuse whatever thechild self wants or needs to express.
I'll just give a quick example.
Um, for some clients, when they'redoing a session with me, they may have
(44:04):
suppressed anger at their mother fornot paying enough attention to them.
So, um, I've had clients where in asession, they'll say something like, um,
I remember my mom being so busy becauseshe just had a new baby because we just
moved because we were building a housebecause we were You know, whatever,
whatever, whatever, all the reasons.
But they're like, oh yeah, I remember,I remember just wanting to get her
(44:26):
attention, trying to ask her forsomething or have her play with me.
And she said, no, I'm busy.
Now, any mother in the history ofthe planet would listen to that
and go, well, yeah, of course.
I mean, we're busy.
We're busy.
Moms are busy.
Okay.
We've got a lot going on.
We can't just stop everything andplay with our kids all the time.
And that's perfectly reasonable.
(44:47):
Nobody is saying that you haveto do that to be a good mother.
But what matters is what thechild in the session, my client,
what their child self felt.
That is what needs tobe felt and expressed.
The wounds are what they felt about it.
(45:10):
It's not whether or notmom was right or wrong.
It's just how did the child feel?
And if they felt that way, what maybe didthey start to believe about themselves?
Because there may have been some attachedbelief systems that came from that.
Like, I'm not lovable.
Or I'm not good enough.
to get my mom's attention,to have her love.
(45:34):
So a lot of the healing work thatI do is healing mother wounds.
And I remember this one momentwhen we went inside the earth,
we were inside one of the burrowswhere they had, um, burials.
Um, the ancient people, pre Celtic times,they would bury their dead in these
burrows and they had these little rooms.
(45:55):
So it would be like dug into a hill orthe hill would be made around it, but
it would be in a little opening andthen you would have these little rooms.
And one of them we went to wasactually in the shape of a woman.
Uh, I don't know if that was intentional,but we thought it was interesting
that the opening or the hole islike where a woman would give birth.
(46:17):
And when you go into theburrow, there was these little
rooms that looked like a head.
arms and legs.
So you could go in and you couldgo into these little rooms.
These rooms used to have human remains.
These, they have been excavated, butnow people can go in and, and, and
just be inside and experience that.
(46:39):
And one of the times, uh, our leader hadasked us, um, to go in there and spend
some time in there and just imagine thatwe were in the womb of mother earth.
And what that would feel like.
And I remember doing that andthinking, um, I had seen little
flowers and little offerings on therocks inside those Those little tombs.
(47:03):
And I thought, oh people have comeand left offerings to the Goddess.
And I didn't bring anything.
And I felt so guilty and so like,ugh, why didn't I think of that?
Why didn't I think to bring something?
Just something to honor MotherEarth and to just give my gratitude
(47:24):
and to show up with something.
I never I never think to do that.
I'm not a gift giving person.
It's not really my, mything, but I felt guilty.
And then I felt this very powerful, lovingenergy that told me deep in my heart.
Why do you always do that?
Why do you always thinkyou didn't do enough?
(47:45):
You never think you're enough.
And then this loving energy thatmade me feel like you came and
you sang a song as an offering.
Which we had done earlier.
We had sung and chanted togetheras a group, and that was enough.
You're enough.
What you brought is enough.
(48:06):
And that's not somethingI'm used to hearing.
Not from my mother or frommyself or anyone really.
So I just, I started crying becauseit was exactly what I needed to hear.
It was healing a mother wound I had.
So here it was just saying, you're enough.
You're doing enough.
(48:27):
You are enough.
You've given enough.
What you gave was enough.
And that was really powerful.
So I would invite you listeners, mymagic wizards and witches who are
listening today, I would invite youthat as mothers or as someone with
(48:48):
a mother, that you do the work ofdeconstructing what mother means to you.
What is it that the needs are that youneed met from the mother, whether it's
a heavenly mother, whether it's, Itwould have been your mother who raised
you, or the expectations you wouldhave had that did not get fulfilled.
(49:12):
And that you are nowtrying to fulfill yourself.
And this awareness and thishealing work is all about that.
It's all about being aware of whatit is we need, and then working
on getting it for ourselves.
Not expecting other people to doit for us, but actually feeling it.
Finding the ways to get our needs met.
(49:34):
And as always, if you need help inthat department, I highly recommend
seeing a facilitator like myselfwho can help you with that work.
So if you're thinking to yourself,I don't even know where to begin.
I know I have mother wounds,but I don't know what they are.
And I don't even know where tobegin looking at that for myself.
I'm going to ask you toplease reach out to me.
(49:57):
This is why I do what I do.
And this is why healers like me do whatwe do because we have been working hard
at healing and we know what that feelslike and we couldn't do it alone either.
So if you need some help in that,please reach out to me and you can
find me on my website, prism healing.
(50:19):
com.
P R I S M.
Healing.
com and you can see there on my mainpage of my website all of the services
that I offer, but I highly recommendthe integrative processing technique,
which is emotional processing.
That is what's really going toprobably cut to the core of what
(50:40):
is it that you need to work.
on and what is buried maybe inyour past or your subconscious.
I would also like to invite you to lookfor me on Instagram prism underscore
healing on tiktok prism healing.
And on Facebook, CourtneyPearl's Prism Healing.
(51:01):
And if you've liked this episode orany of the episodes that I have done
on Practically Magic, I would pleaseask you to follow, subscribe or share
your favorite episode with a friend.
It will help us to be able to makemore episodes and more content for you.
And it will make sure that when there'snew episodes out, you will get notified.
(51:21):
So please like, follow, and share.
And until next time, go makemagic, witches and wizards.
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