May 22, 2025 • 53 mins
Exploring Healing Through Guided Ketamine Sessions with Dr. Unkefer and Shandell Pino
In this episode of Practically Magic, host Courtney Pearl delves into the world of psychedelics and healing, focusing on her personal experiences with ketamine. Courtney is joined by Dr. Unkefer from Guided Ketamine and Shandell Pino from Inner Light Academy. They discuss the importance of safe and controlled ketamine sessions, the science behind ketamine's effects on the brain, and the vital role of emotional and spiritual support in psychedelic therapies. Personal anecdotes and experiences are shared, emphasizing the transformative potential of guided ketamine sessions. The episode also touches on the integration of these experiences into everyday life and the importance of intentional post-session practices.
00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
00:41 Card Pull and Symbolism
01:27 Exploring the Phoenix and Kali Cards
02:17 Ketamine Session Insights
02:29 Visualizing Liberation
03:36 Breaking Down Walls with Psychedelics
04:04 Interview with Dr. Uffer and Shandal Pinot
04:37 Dr. Uffer's Journey with Ketamine
05:30 Understanding Ketamine's Effects
06:21 The Science Behind Ketamine
08:58 Personal Healing Journeys
10:58 The Role of Glutamate in Healing
13:46 Importance of Post-Session Integration
15:47 Shandell's Background and Experience
19:14 Courtney's First Psychedelic Experience
20:45 Group Ketamine Session Experience
27:15 Exploring Pyramids in Different Worlds
28:34 The Science Behind Ketamine's Effects
30:22 Emotional and Spiritual Experiences
31:51 Energy Work and Integration
32:55 Personal Reflections and Healing
38:06 The Importance of Integration
40:50 Final Thoughts and Resources
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Practically Magic.
I am your host, Courtney Pearl.
Today we have a very special episodebecause we are going to be sharing
with you some of the experiences thatI've had with psychedelics and healing.
I wanted to talk about it as a subject,but like most things, it's really
just not enough to talk about it.
(00:21):
You have to experience it.
So we did a very special groupKetamine session, uh, very safely with.
The guest that we are gonna have today,guided Ketamine and Interlight Academy,
and I'm gonna talk a little bit about thatexperience and why it is so important to
do it in a very safe and controlled way.
So before we get to our episode, before weget to our interview, I would just like to
(00:46):
pull a card and I am actually going to usethe seasons of the Witch Beltane because
it is at the time we're recording this.
We're entering Beltane season.
It is the time between the springequinox and the summer solstice, and
it is a sacred time for the CelticFyre Festival and, um, the wheel of
(01:08):
the year and the card that I pulledfor today's episode is actually the
Phoenix, and I pulled this ahead of time.
Because I really wanted to get a feelfor the day and how this was going to
play a part in what we're working on.
And what I think is interesting is,uh, I had my kids pull a card, uh, a
(01:32):
goddess card for our altar before schooltoday, and we got the Goddess Col of
Destruction and the word is liberation.
And then the Phoenix card going alongwith that really invites an element of.
Destruction, chaos, tearing things down.
(01:52):
It might be associated withthe tarot, uh, the tower card.
And it really gives the impressionthat you have to be really
willing to let destruction andchaos go to surrender to it.
And I find this fascinating because whilethis card was not picked specifically
for this episode, it was picked.
For today, and it goes absolutelyperfectly with the idea we're
(02:16):
gonna talk about with ketamine.
And I'm gonna talk more about myexperience after the interview,
so stay tuned for that because I'mgonna do a follow up afterwards.
Um, before I get into it.
Um.
I just wanted to give you a visualto help explain the way that I
helped my kids understand what thisPhoenix or Cali card really means.
(02:40):
And I said, if you were in a cell,a jail cell, and you would put
yourself there, but you can't get out.
And it's not very comfy and it's notvery cozy, but it's really all you know.
So you stay there and you,you put yourself there because
you don't know any different.
Would you want to get out?
(03:02):
Would you wanna get out of thatcell and experience other places?
And they said yes.
And I said, okay.
So before that can happen,we have to destroy the walls.
We have to destroy the cell.
And the energy of Cali ordestruction is really about
freeing ourselves from the selves.
We've put ourselves into the.
(03:23):
Jail cell, we put ourselves into the cageswe put ourselves in, so we that then can
re rebirth, rise from the ashes and becomewho it is we want or are meant to be.
So I love that theme for today'sepisode because we're gonna talk
a lot about what that looks likewith a guided ketamine session and
(03:44):
with psychedelics, how it really.
Helps propel you into a space where youcan start breaking down all of those
walls and rebuilding them in a way that'smuch more suited to you and your freedom.
Okay, let's get to it.
Hi.
Welcome back.
This is my living room and I've invited.
(04:07):
Dr. Uffer from Guide Ketamine and ShandalPinot from Inner Life Academy to join me
to talk about psychedelics and healing.
And we have some adventures to sharewith you, some adventures we've
been on in the last couple of weeks.
So I'm excited to talk about this because.
First of all, you have a really greatstory in how you came to be a part of
(04:27):
all of this, this woowoo Healing Worlds,as some people refer to it, and then the
actual medical side of things that you do.
So how did you end updoing guided ketamine?
Yeah, it's kind of interesting 'cause.
I'm a year into my journey and I findmyself surrounded in a community that
(04:48):
I've never been a part of before.
The whole spiritual, um, yeah.
Whatever you want to call it.
Woo woo.
Or whatever people call us.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I am, I am emergency medicinetrained, worked at trauma centers
and emergency rooms my entire career.
So almost 20 years of, um, justworking like a standard er doctor job.
(05:13):
And it was, I, it's gotta be close totwo years ago now, I underwent treatment
with ketamine as a patient and it kindof changed my whole trajectory of my
career and what I do and what I believe.
And typically like ketamine'sassociated with treating for pain?
(05:35):
Yeah, so I would use, soKetamine's been around for.
Since the 1960s, I believe, and has alwaysbeen used in human medicine, it gets a
rep as being like a horse tranquilizer.
'cause it is used in veterinary medicinetoo, but it's used in human medicine more.
Um, but I would use ketamine inthe emergency room to anesta I
(05:55):
people to put 'em down, to put 'em,put, knock 'em out for procedures.
And so I use ketamine all thetime, but never for mental health.
And I had heard, you know.
People talking aboutketamine for mental health.
Um, it's been like 20 years sincethe very first study suggested
that it could be helpful.
And so I'd heard people talkingabout it, but I never paid attention
(06:17):
to it 'cause that's not how Iused it in the emergency room.
Um, until year and a half or twoyears ago, I came across a paper
that was talking and showingwhat Ketamine did to your brain.
Um, after.
You got it as a patient, andit was a study where they were
looking at the brains of mice.
(06:39):
And after a single dose of ketamine,the, the researchers were able to watch
a whole bunch of new synapses grow new.
The synapses are the connectionsbetween the neurons and your brain.
A whole bunch of new synapses growand forming, literally forming, like
physically forming new connections andopening up new parts of the brain and.
(07:02):
It was that paper that made me sayto myself like, geez, is this does,
is this actually the real deal?
Because I had been poo-pooing ketaminefor mental health for, for years.
Okay.
Okay.
There's, and you had to be converted?
Well, right.
'cause there's, there's fads that comein along in medicine all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
I'm very science oriented andwestern medicine trained, and I'm
(07:26):
like, you know, colon cleansesof the world and the IV vitamins.
I'm kind of like, youknow, that's kind of a fad.
Like, show me the data and showme that it's actually working.
And so I kind of delved into the researchbehind ketamine and there's literally
like hundreds of papers not only showingthat people feel better, um, from a
(07:47):
mental health standpoint and the, the.
The mental health, um, issues thatare most well-studied are depression.
Anxiety and PTSD.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So hun literally hundreds ofstudies people with these conditions
can be treated with ketamineand feel better afterwards.
But was what was more interesting to meis that in more recently, maybe in the
(08:11):
last five to seven years, the studieshave gotten down to what's actually
happening at the cellular level.
Um, you know, the mechanism of whypeople might feel better and what it.
Is showing is exactly what Isaid about the mice brains.
Yeah.
Same as in humans.
It stimulates the proliferationof synapses and new connections
(08:33):
in your brain, and literallyopens up new neural pathways,
opens up new areas of your brain.
And this is why the, thepopular media likes to use
buzzwords like neuroplasticity.
Rewiring.
Mm-hmm.
Resetting.
It's, it all comes down to the fact thatit is stimulating new synapse growth and
(08:54):
opening up new pathways in your brain.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I think of when I think oflike, what people call a shift or they're
like, I feel the shift happening and inthe world of like, without the, the help
of the chemicals or the help of that,just in an emotional healing world.
Um, therapist and peoplethat I've talked to.
(09:15):
This is all possible to rewire the brain,but takes years and years and years
of, um, first of all, high emotion,uh, you know, looking at things with
the help of somebody who can helpyou look at things from a different
perspective because our brains aremapped by the time, like eight years old.
(09:35):
So.
It's pretty much like everythingthat we've decided we need to
do in our lives, how we get ourneeds met and things like that.
And, um, I talked in another episodeabout the chemicals of the brain, uh, how
to get those chemicals, those chemicalsthat make us feel good in the brain.
We like all have our wayof getting that need met.
But it's so hard to rewrite thatonce it's solidified as a synopsis.
(09:57):
It's like that's all we know.
So I know for me personally, in my healingjourney, there's so much work being done
for years and years and years, and yougo, oh, there's a new way to do that.
But there's still always that old way.
And so sometimes when you get intoa stuck space of being confused or
triggered, you just go, I don't reallyknow what else to do but that old way.
(10:18):
So you sometimes end up goingback to the old way anyway.
So we're gonna talk about thiswhen we talk about my session.
We, there's so much more to talkabout with rewriting the brain.
But you talked about before, you talkedabout, uh, the chemical need because
I know about like the basic ones.
We know endorphins and dopamine,um, but ketamine is like addressing
(10:44):
a different chemical that mostof us don't know about, right?
Yeah.
So like you said, everybodyhas kinda heard about.
The dopamines and the serotonins ofthe world, these neurotransmitters
that help regulate emotions.
But there's one that gets less, um, lessattention, and it's truthfully less well
(11:05):
understood than dopamine and serotonin andnorepinephrine, but it's called glutamate.
And ketamine binds to the same receptorthat the glutamate binds to in your brain.
Yeah.
And it's not, it's notcompletely understood.
How and why, but there's kind ofa cascade of events that leads to
stimulation of your neurons, firingof neurons all over your brain.
(11:28):
That gives you the psychedelic experiencewhile those neurons are firing, but it
for some reason, it also stimulates.
The neurons to then search for newconnections after the experience.
And that's where the growth of newsynapses, um, you know, like another buzz
(11:50):
word, like fertilizer for your brain.
Mm-hmm.
It is like your, after the medicine,your neurons just start to like reach
for each other and form new connections.
Yeah.
And for me, that was the selling point.
That's when I became a believer, right?
So not only do people say that theyfeel better afterwards, but now
there's a mechanism to explain why.
(12:12):
And you combine those two thingstogether and I'm like, this, this is it.
This is the real deal.
It's working.
Yeah.
You know why it's working.
And I can feel that so much.
I called it mushy brain after the session.
I mean, there was the psychedelicexperience, which we'll talk about, but
I was like, for the next day or two, Iwas so aware that my brain was in a state
(12:39):
that felt like it would accept whatever.
I fed it very respect.
So I was very like intentional.
And that's, um, we'll get tolike where you come in because.
It's your work as a healer in what you doto be like, Kate, it's really important
to what you do with this time and theseaffirmations that I'm helping you with.
(12:59):
'cause I was like, okay, whatever.
Affirmation.
It was like a buffetof what do I want now?
Yeah.
And I wanna like make sure that's whatI'm feeding myself with for the next.
48 hours.
So I, I intentionally, like I told myfamily, we're not turning on the tv.
I'm not turning on any, I'm notgetting, not getting on social media
for anything that I don't absolutelyhave to, and I'm, you know, all of these
(13:22):
things that I wanna make sure that I.
Reprogram my brain.
Mm-hmm.
As much as possible.
Now, I, you know, I will prefacethat by saying it's not magical.
It can't just fix everythingin my life in one session.
So I realized that's gonna beimportant, but it really was helpful
for me to be intentional aboutwhat is it now moving forward?
Like, how do I.
(13:43):
How do I really use this time?
Very, very wisely and carefully.
So you realizing that a lot of peoplewere doing like ketamine treatments
in a clinical type setting, butmaybe weren't receiving the support
that they needed in the before andthe after and the elements of how it
actually opened up, uh, consciousness.
Like in a, in a spiritual way.
(14:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And come stand out.
Well, exactly.
So I learned early on.
In this journey, you, the medicineis going to stimulate some synapse
growth, but it's not, you can'tjust take it and go on exactly
how you've always gone, gone on.
(14:24):
You actually have to trainthat new growth, grow into some
positive like neural loops.
And the truth was that I'man emergency room doctor.
That I realized, like I'm not trained tohelp people from an emotional standpoint.
(14:45):
Right.
I can give you the medicine,I can make sure you're safe.
I can make sure you don't overdose.
I can get you through the experience.
Um, but man, I was way out of myleague when it came to supporting
somebody from an emotional or spiritualstandpoint because, and I think
you said, we'll talk about this.
It is.
(15:06):
Of any medicine I've ever givenit is the one that crosses the
border between science and westernmedicine into the metaphysical or
the spiritual, or like whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Religious, whatever youwant to describe it.
Yeah.
And that is where I waslike, I, now I'm lost.
(15:28):
Like this is not what I do.
Um, and that is how I endedup working with Chantelle.
Yeah.
In comes your story.
Okay.
And you've been a sitterbefore Ketamine, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour background in coming into
this and we'll meet in the middle.
Yeah.
Um, so I've been an energyhealer for 15 years and, um, it
(15:54):
was six years ago that I was.
Told to go sit with ayahuasca.
So I sat with Ayahuasca andthat completely changed the
trajectory of what I was workingwith and what I was working on.
Um, I did not facilitate ayahuasca.
That's way bigger job than me.
But, um, I did facilitate withother medicines for a while.
(16:16):
Um, a lot of that stuff is, you know,underground because it's not legal.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's not talked about.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I would holdspace for a lot of my.
Clients.
And then all of a suddenketamine was like everywhere.
Yeah.
And I had quite a few of myclients coming in, being like, oh
my gosh, I had a ketamine sessionyesterday and it was awful.
(16:37):
And I was so scared.
They just left me in a room by myselfor like, they just, I wasn't even fully
out of the medicine and they kickedme out and I had to get in the car
and I had to leave, or like my sitterwas late and I had to sit on the curb.
Like there were so many things.
Um.
And so I ended up having to like cleanup energetically and emotionally all
of these people and I'm like this,that medicine is supposed to be helping
(17:01):
you not creating additional trauma.
Yeah.
Can you imagine being right after,and your neuropathways are all mushy
and you're ready to like accept newthings and the thing you accept is
I'm abandoned and no one came to me.
Right.
Right.
Well, and like to go back to whatyou said, that you can just get the
medicine and it does what it does,but also like if you go back to your
normal everyday life, if you are inthe back of the car just scrolling as
(17:25):
they drive you home, you're reiteratingthe life you just tried to get out of.
Mm-hmm.
You're just like cementing it in more.
And so as I started having more andmore of these clients that were like.
I need help.
I just did another session andI, I'm still feeling like this.
And, um, I was a driverfor my best friend.
I was her driver, and I took her toa clinic and talked to the doctor,
(17:50):
which they're an amazing clinic.
The doctor actually doessit with you there, right?
Um, and so I talked to her andshe's like, we have a training.
And I'm like, I'm in.
And I went through their training.
It was great.
And I was like.
And there's so much more than even in thattraining could allow for in that space.
(18:12):
And then I met him at the psychedelicconference and I was like.
I wanted to talk to you.
'cause if you're going intopeople's homes, that is
literally the perfect setting.
Mm-hmm.
For people that they can createwhat they need to know in order
to create the safety and space.
And, um, then, you know, when we worktogether, I can offer that actual.
(18:35):
Preparing because you, you shouldgo in prepared to what you're
about to experience mm-hmm.
Mentally and emotionally.
And if, especially if you've neverhad a psychedelic experience before,
which a lot of people don't orhaven't, but they're willing to
try ketamine because of the data.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it's important for you to kindof have some idea of what you may
(18:55):
experience while you're in there,um, because it can be overwhelming.
Yeah.
And so like I, you know, then where I comein from all of my years of, of sitting
with people both for emotional processing,energy work, um, and then psychedelics,
uh, it's been a, a really good combo.
Yeah.
I'm one of those, the first timers.
(19:17):
Yeah.
And I, I had wanted just beingin the healing world and learning
everything I could and, um, youknow, just being kind of like, um.
A lifelong learner of these things.
I was like, I know I wanna try somethingat some point, but I'm also, I mean, I've
never done anything like I barely drink.
(19:40):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, no.
Nothing outside of the bodythat comes into my body.
I really haven't experienced very muchcompared to probably most people who
try things here and there and like theyhave a wild youth and whatever they do.
I have not had any of that.
I was a very clean person,so it was just like.
Okay, if I'm gonna do this, Ireally wanna make sure I'm safe.
(20:00):
Like I really, I'm looking for somethingwhere I really trust the people I'm
with and I really feel like, um, I we'redoing this kind of all the right ways.
I'm not worried about anything happening.
And so when the opportunity camealong, I'm like, I think this is it.
This is when I need to trend this.
I always thought it might be likea shaman or somebody that does an
ayahuasca trip to things that they do.
(20:22):
And, um, I know that there'soptions where un under religious.
Right laws.
They can, they can do certain things.
And so I thought maybe thatwould be a route I would go.
But then this came up, I was like, thisis what I feel is going to be my a,
a good thing for my first experience.
I need to like have this in a, in a placewhere I feel like everybody knows what
they're doing and they're very highlyqualified and I am completely safe.
(20:45):
And so we did do it in a groupsetting and we'll show some of the
clips of, uh, what that was likeand what, what we went through, but.
Uh, I really just have to say I appreciatethat, first of all, um, because I've
been seeking healing in an emotionaland energy healing world for many years.
I was aware of what Iwas going into it for.
(21:07):
Hmm.
I think that's really helpful.
Yeah.
So when people have asked me is I'vehad clients that are saying, I'm gonna
go have academy session, and I'm like,and they're like, what should I do?
Or what should I know?
I'm like, I don't knowanything about that.
But I think that a session before.
And a session after in emotional healing.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, would be really helpful.
Um, just what I know of it.
(21:28):
So having experienced it now I cansay, oh, it was really helpful to
go in there knowing like, this iswhat I wanna change in my life.
These are things that I havebeen trying and working on and
shifting for a long time, and thengo into it with some intention.
So it's great that you do like the, uh,what do you call it, the intake interview?
Yeah.
I usually do like pre-integration.
(21:49):
Pre-integration.
Yeah.
So you kind of talk to us on the phone andsay, what is it that you wanna work on?
What is it that you're looking for?
The doctor aspect of it islike, again, super safe.
I feel like someone is theremonitoring me, has all my medical
information, asked for all these things.
Beforehand.
So you knew like if there was anythingin my medical history or anything
(22:10):
that I needed to know, you knew thedosages, um, that were appropriate
for me and everything like that.
And then during the session you'relike, monitoring your heart, I'm
monitoring your oxygen, you'll be okay.
So I'm like, great.
I can absolutely kick back andtotally not worry about a thing.
Right?
Yeah.
And I'll actually, I'llsay something about that.
It's interesting that ketamine is.
(22:32):
The psychedelic that is legal becauseit's kind of the most dangerous one.
Right.
And you talk about psilocybin, whichis mushrooms, or you talk about LSD.
Or even DMT, like you people don'treally overdose or have medical
complications from those psychedelics.
Mm-hmm.
Ketamine, you can, you can become oversedated and suppress your respirations.
(22:56):
Not often, but it's possible.
Yeah.
It can raise your blood pressure,it can raise your heart rate.
It can cause you, you'rerelatively sedated.
So if you threw up whileyou were sedated, you.
You have a risk of choking or aspirating.
Mm-hmm.
And so it really does need to beadministered by a medical person.
Yeah.
Who is ready to intervene if any kindaside effect or complication happens.
(23:20):
And it's, those are all very rare.
A knock on wood, I'venever, I, I met over 400.
You know, like home visitsthat I've done for people.
I've never had any kindaserious complication, but
the possibility is there.
So you do need somebody mm-hmm.
Who is trained to interveneif something medical happens.
(23:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm glad that you mentioned that too.
And I was, um, interested too andjust kind of the comparison between
something that's plant-based ornatural based and something synthetic.
Created like Ken means.
So I'm glad that you brought that up.
And, uh, so in, in, I, and I dowanna say that I have now had the
(24:01):
experience of being both the one inthe session and then being able to
sit with you during a session whensomebody was having their session.
And, um, and by the way, justbeing an observer, I reiterate,
I'm not qualified and I've nothad the training that you've had.
I was there literallyjust to be an observer.
But what I thought was interesting aboutthat experience, being on the outside of
(24:24):
it and watching it and watching your workand what you guys do is, um, it felt to
me like, uh, I could absolutely see youas an incarnate, as a priestess of isis.
I. One of those people that, um, inhistory have been known to be like
the healing priestesses that they comein and they do the anointing of the
oils and they do the, uh, that's how Ienvisioned you as we were doing that.
(24:47):
I was like, look at her, do her thing, andthis is just all happening all at once.
You know?
So I really appreciate that perspective,or you letting me have that yeah,
moment where I could just be like,I'm just this other body in the room
and I get to just be here under this.
Light of your wisdom as it were.
(25:09):
But yeah, we'll go into kind of thegroup session that we have and the
experience that we had because, um,'cause they wanna talk about just how.
What you're saying it does to the brain.
Um, and I am a Pisces,uh, I'm a modern mystic.
I kind of, I didn't even realizethis until the last couple of years.
I thought everybody just lived likethis, but I live kind of in a different
(25:30):
realm all the time anyway, that's justlike how I've always done my life.
Everybody was like, oh, you're suchan imaginative person, or you're
imaginative child, and I'm like.
Isn't.
That doesn't, because I thought thateverybody lived like this, but now
realizing that, you know, especiallywhen I'm doing something like breath
work or a sound bath, I can disassociate.
I feel like I can leave my body, Ican leave, I can go to other worlds.
(25:54):
So already during the session you startedwith a sound bath and you started with the
bowls, and so I was kind of already gone.
I was like, I'm in the stars,I'm leaving and then coming for
the first injection that you did.
It brought me back.
'cause I had to be like,oh, that's my body.
I'm over here again.
You know, getting the shot.
(26:14):
Um, and then you, it kind ofslowly takes you into it and it
really felt kind of like dropping.
Mm-hmm.
It feels like you're dropping out of yourbody or, um, I kind of thought it would
be more like ascending, but it's, it kindof feels like you're just dropping out.
Everything just kind of relaxes.
Yeah.
It just kind of goes, go into otherworlds, kind of start to see other things.
(26:36):
I did.
Um.
Um, and we kind of talked about you,you kind of helped prepare us in
saying that you might think you'llsee lots of colors, but you might
not, it can be really dull and mutedas far as the colors go and stuff.
But the first thing Isaw was bright colors.
I saw colors and shapesand things like that.
And it wasn't until after the secondinjection that I started to, it started
(26:59):
to come together as kind of like, um.
One of the ladies, I, I, in oursession, she said it exactly
the way that I was imagined.
It, it was like being a dune.
We were just in different worlds.
I saw different worlds.
I saw, um, a lot of pyramids.
(27:19):
Hmm.
I saw pyramids in different places.
Like if it was like on dune,on a. Kind of a desert.
It was like the pyramid there, orit was like a green world, kind of
an avatar with lots of greenery.
It was pyramids.
Um, I went to a place that wasall white and cold, like a like.
At the Arctic, but it was pyramids andsome of the pyramids were like this, and
(27:43):
some of the pyramids were upside down.
Sometimes I was in like an arenathat was huge and spacious, but
there was always a pyramid there.
Interesting.
Yeah, it was really fascinating IfI did actually visit other worlds.
They have pyramids theretoo, just so everybody knows.
Yeah.
And you know it's listening to you.
I always, it always reminds me, it isso difficult to try to describe Yeah.
(28:07):
The experience.
Yeah.
'cause you probably feel likeyou're not doing it justice.
'cause it was so, it's bizarre.
And then somebody listening islike, okay, you saw pyramids, right?
Like, and it is very difficult to tryto explain what it's like because it
truly is an experience that is not.
I mean, unless you've done otherpsychedelics, it's a, it's an
(28:28):
experience that you've never had before.
Right.
And you almost can't put it into words.
Yeah, true.
And I think it, from a medical'sperspective, what's happening
is that the ketamine binds this.
Receptor that glutamate typically binds.
There's a cascade of events and it leadsto neurons firing all over your brain.
(28:49):
I mean, almost like aseizure, but more organized.
But just like neurons everywhere, alot of the firing is in your occipital
lobe, which is the visual cortex.
Okay.
And so makes you're.
Your consciousness or yoursoul, or however you want
to describe it, who you are.
Your brain takes all theseinputs and it has never seen
(29:14):
that pattern of inputs before.
Because as you're living your life,you would never be doing anything
that would firing off all theseneurons in the that type of pattern.
Mm-hmm.
So your consciousnesstakes all this input.
And it tries to present you withwhat it thinks is happening.
Okay.
And so you get all these neuronsfiring in your visual cortex and your
consciousness is like, um, okay, well Iguess it's this, here's some pyramids.
(29:39):
Mm-hmm.
Or here, you know, here's some Yeah.
Swirling lights or whateverit thinks is happening.
But, but it scrambles your visuals.
Mm-hmm.
But it scrambles your sense of body.
So most people don't feel their bodyor feel like they leave their body feel
like their body is stretching or falling.
Or rising.
Mm-hmm.
(29:59):
Um, it scrambles youremotions a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
So you, it can bring upsuper strong emotions.
It can make you laugh, it can make youcry without even really knowing why.
But it also, it does scrambleyour thinking just a little bit
too, and never really to the pointof like forgetting who you are.
(30:22):
Um, your rational thought is still intact,but it does force you to sometimes drop
some barriers that you've put up orto, I have a lot of those bring things
that you've been avoiding more to thesurface, and so you get in that space.
And not only is there a psychedelicexperience going on, but you have to,
(30:45):
you are oftentimes faced with theselike emotional, spiritual experiences
at the same time, and that is, thatis not something that Western Medicine
prepares you for as so I wasn'tprepared for it as a patient myself.
(31:07):
Um, and I wasn't prepared for it as.
The person giving the ketamine.
And so that, and again, like here Iam talking about the science behind
it, but so the science behind it.
No, that's okay.
You're the Scully right of the Xbox.
I'm an X Browne fan.
He's the medical guy and we're,uh, she's like the molder.
(31:28):
She lives on the supernatural.
The science behind it is easy.
Like my side is easy.
I know I can give you the medicine if you.
Stop breathing, I'll fix that.
If you have your heartrate spikes, I'll fix that.
If your blood pressuredrops, I'll fix that.
But like, um, I don'tknow what I was doing.
Like I And you're doing the supportingthe emotional, the physical or
(31:49):
the, the spiritual side of things.
Mm-hmm.
And you're actually doing the energywork, like what we would typically
see in reiki and you're going throughand doing that and receiving messages.
Yeah.
So when I am, when, ifwe have like one-on-ones.
Specifically.
'cause when we do it in groups,I'm a little bit more spread out.
So I only take a fewmoments with each person.
But, um, as long as they're opento, you know, having energy work.
(32:13):
Um, and it's not always like reiki really,it is whatever the person is needing.
Mm-hmm.
And I always preface with like, Idon't take out energy, but what I do
is I will be able to see where thereis a blockage, where there is a built
up of energy that can sometimes.
Create those difficult times in theexperience or the like, overwhelm.
(32:37):
And I just help support it.
I help shift it, I helpget it to start moving.
Um, and then it creates thedeeper understanding of what
it is they're experiencing.
And um, then I do end up with a lotof messages that I just write down.
Yeah.
Super powerful.
Uh, I mean, I can onlyimagine just enhancing.
(32:58):
Even with the work, when I go into receive energy work or I'm doing
energy work with a client, um,first of all, it's really powerful
to let people have the experience.
Like instead of, here's me telling youeverything that you're gonna do and
heal and, and, and go through, justletting them be the guide of the session.
(33:19):
Super powerful already.
Um, and it was very comforting for meto prepare for the session and being
able to go, I'm probably going to.
Uh, freak out a little bit.
Losing control.
I knew that from doingthe breath work session.
When you start to go into it and, andthey let you know, they're like about five
to seven minutes in of this breathing.
(33:40):
You're hyperventilating yourself.
You're going to lock up.
You might this, you might,um, have a surge of anxiety.
Like, I don't know what's happening.
I don't like this.
And knowing myself and part of lettinggo control is a lot of my healing
work is I was like, I don't know.
I might start to dropout and drop into things.
I might start to panic.
Like, there's no going, there'sno coming back, there's no, um,
(34:05):
you know, I can't take it back.
I can't come out by my choice.
I have to let go.
Um, and as much as I wanted that,I knew that that might have a
moment where I'd be like, oh, no.
You were really good about, like,what, what do you think you might need?
Mm-hmm.
Do you need me to come hold your hand?
Do you need me to, um, you know,if you wave your hand and say,
hold my hand, I'll hold your hand.
(34:25):
Or just words of affirmation,you're here, you're in this room.
But, um, I found that that should be theabsolute best part of the experience was
that once I was able to go, you know what?
This is happening.
I can't do anything about it now.
Yeah.
I gotta just.
Flow with it.
Mm-hmm.
And that being the lesson I neededmost and knowing that that's the
(34:47):
lesson I need most and still theyears of work I've done have not
allowed me to let go to that level.
Yeah.
So that was probably one of the mostpowerful things for me to be able to
go, Hey, I'm gonna have this experience.
I'm gonna go wherever I go.
I'm gonna see whatever Isee and I'm just gonna.
Let it happen.
Mm-hmm.
And then I was able to really enjoythe experience and have a lot of peace.
(35:12):
And I, I remember the very beginningwhen I saw kind of colors and all of
these things, it kind of looked likeblocks or structures or whatever it was.
And I, I remember thinking asif praying or speaking to the
universe, like what matters.
What actually matters.
And then all of it just fell apart.
(35:35):
Everything just melted like it went away.
And this overwhelming sense oflike nothing, nothing matters.
And afterwards, you telling me thatwas similar to your experience, but you
saying you get to decide what matters.
Mm-hmm.
So that was powerful for me becausemy affirmation became after that.
Um, I assign meaning to what matters.
(35:55):
Mm-hmm.
And I said that over and over againfor the next 48 hours was just,
I assign meaning to what matters.
And I didn't even realize, I mean,maybe I did subconsciously, but I
didn't even realize how many thingsin my life I was making matter.
Yeah.
Like everything.
Like everything.
Every little thing in mylife was like, that matters.
(36:18):
That matters.
That matters.
And you even said the messageto me, which you don't know
me well enough to know, right.
But you said you are trying way toohard like you are, you are trying.
Um, you said don't be.
Oh my gosh.
I'm trying to remember exactly the wordsthat you said because it was so great.
But it was like, don't go throughthe motions, be in your emotions.
(36:40):
Mm-hmm.
And I, and I was like, yep,that's exactly what I needed.
That's what I need to hear, because Ido tend to be like, this matters and
this matters, and this matters whatI wear, what I do, what, what my kids
are doing every moment of every day.
And then I just go, thatdoesn't really matter.
Yeah.
Like, what are my priorities?
Because I had that, that, again,emotional experience in, in the
(37:05):
session of I really love my kids.
And I just love the work I do.
And I just, and at one point I had whatyou called an egoic death afterwards.
'cause I said there was apoint where I ceased to exist.
I didn't even know whoCourtney was anymore.
I was like, Courtney, who?
(37:26):
Who's that?
I am nothing.
And nobody.
And I had a vague semblanceof like, I do have kids in a
family, but I'm, I was just like.
They're fine.
Yeah.
Like if I died right now and this isdeath and I'm leaving my body, I'm
like, then everybody will be fine.
(37:48):
Yeah.
And if that's what death is,we shouldn't be afraid of it.
Right.
It feels great.
Right.
Like it's all good.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Do you want to kind of, um, talkabout anything more about your
side of things in that experience?
In your experience?
Just my experience or just in general?
Yeah.
I mean, I think with anybody's experience,like especially with, with any psychedelic
(38:11):
and with the ketamine is like clinicsright now are cranking people out, but
not giving them the education mm-hmm.
Of.
How beneficial it is, what theycan and should be doing before,
during, and after a session.
And you know, like I stopped servingother psychedelics long ago just
for the sake that I'm like, I wannahelp people like actually integrate
(38:34):
their experience and have it show upin their everyday life of like, you
had that moment where you're like.
I don't know if anything matters.
Right.
And then I'm like, okay, well how areyou gonna apply that to your life?
Mm-hmm.
Instead of you being like, oh, I had thismoment where nothing really mattered.
Yeah.
Now I'm gonna go back to my lifeand everything freaking matters.
Right?
Yeah.
You don't, I just solidifiedthat back into my brain.
(38:56):
Yeah.
And so now, like knowing how importantit is for you to take that and work
with it, I always say 48 to 72 hours.
Mm-hmm.
Because I say, do the extra work.
Yeah.
Um, and.
Uh, my heart is truly inmaking people feel safe and
(39:16):
open enough in their experiencethat they can completely let go.
Mm-hmm.
And then on the after effect ofhow can I support you afterwards,
how can I take those little tinymoments that you had in there and
make meaning to their everyday life?
Mm-hmm.
Instead of just the oneexperience that they had.
And it was super cool.
(39:38):
Yes, it's, it's truly like, like Isaid earlier, it's kind of, um, feels
just like the ancient healers of like
isis, the priestesses of isis, which, um,there's some correlation to Mary Magdalene
possibly being a, a priestess of isis andthat was her role and things like that.
(40:00):
And that's kind of where I associate that.
Um.
Being able to be with people, beingable to really actually guide and
support them through what they'rethey're doing and what they need.
Um, so it's like, it's sacred work, right?
Yeah.
And so thank you fordoing that Sacred work.
Yeah.
It's important work.
And, um, and I'm with you in that.
I would love for anything thatI do, any work that I do to help
support people in that transitionand in just that aftermath of.
(40:25):
Um, let's make new decisions.
Mm-hmm.
Now that you're able to, yeah.
Now that you can see that thereare more options than just the same
patterns you've always been in, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's a very beautiful blend of themedical and spiritual and mystical
and emotional and mental and physical.
Yeah.
You can just package thatall up in a nice, neat ball.
(40:45):
It's really all aboutall of those things, so.
Before we go, tell us where peoplecan find you and follow you.
Yeah, so technically, technicallywe have two separate businesses.
Mm-hmm.
We work together, so mine's calledGuided Ketamine, salt Lake City, so
(41:06):
guided ketamine, salt lake city.com.
Um, all my information's on there, andI do, I do, we kind of touched on this,
but what the psychedelic people willtalk about the, what they call the set
in the setting, so the mindset mm-hmm.
Going in and the setting inwhich you do the medicine.
Yeah.
And if either of those are, feel off, itcan lead to a bad experience, a bad trip.
(41:32):
Right.
And so we, when I. Well, Idecided that I wanted to try to
optimize that set and setting.
Yes.
And so all the chandeland I do our home visits.
We're like mobile, sowe come to your house.
It's my favorite part.
Do you get a treatment in on your bed oron your couch with your cat on your lap
(41:55):
or your partner next holding your hand?
So, um, yeah.
Yeah.
So we don't have a physicallocation, but we kind of travel
throughout the Salt Lake Valley.
Yeah.
And I highly recommend when you goon that website to just read his
story, read a little bit about that.
'cause it's all really fascinating.
It is really good.
Get you a little bit more about him.
Yeah.
And, and then I'm Interlight Academy.
(42:17):
Um, I'm in Riverton and I go with him.
And then I also have my ownpractice at my own home.
And then we also do groups twice a month.
Yep.
Lovely home.
That's where we did the group session.
I know, because, uh, when I gotthere and did the session and then
afterwards came up out of the.
Basement and was like.
We were here the whole time.
(42:39):
It felt like we were here for years.
We, we were just here,completely forgot where we were.
I forgot anybody was in the room with me.
So clearly had a great experience.
Lovely.
Good.
Yes.
Um, so thank you so much for comingand talking and having this discussion.
Um, even more so than being here onpractically magic, but just providing
(42:59):
us with the opportunity to experiencethis and to have that group session for
us all to, um, to get, to have that.
And, uh, yeah, we'll be hearingmore from them very soon, so.
Okay.
Thanks.
Thanks, thanks.
Thanks for having us.
And we're back.
What a great conversation that we had.
(43:20):
There's still so much more that we talkedabout off camera that we really didn't
even have time to cut, to touch base with.
So, um, there's a couple ofthings that I want to just talk
about with my experience and.
When having a guided Ketamine session,what it felt like to me, and as Dr.
Uncover said, it's almost impossibleto explain or to let people really
(43:42):
fully understand what it means to havea psychedelic experience or even just
a ketamine psychedelic experience.
Excuse me.
Nose is itchy.
It's allergy season.
But I want to just kind of reiterate againthe feelings that I had in going through
that about an hour after the session.
(44:04):
And they give you plenty of timeto integrate and to come back
to yourself fully, which reallytook me an extra amount of time.
I feel.
I felt like I really didn't evenrecognize who I was in this body and
had to take a minute to remember thatthere were other people in the room
that had done this experience with me.
So I may may have been a littlefurther out there than, than
(44:28):
some people get to have and.
Everybody's experiences are so different.
So who, who's to say?
But I did have, uh, some time to discussthings, to kind of come back to myself
to, to feel more stable, uh, get somethingto eat, and I finally felt well enough to
(44:49):
move to get up, walk, go to the bathroom.
So I had plenty of time, butI went into the bathroom and I
noticed my face in the mirror.
And the feeling that I had whenseeing my face for the first time
after the experience and after havingkind of what I call mushy brain.
My brain was all mushy.
(45:10):
I'm looking at my own self and I thinkfor the very first time in my entire
life, I felt no judgment, no shame.
And I don't think I've ever felt whatthat actually feels like, just as I have
been participating in healing work formyself when engaging with other people
(45:31):
as a facilitator, as a healer, I thinkit's really important to understand
that we are people too, and we havethe same healing work that we're doing,
but I suffer from a lot of, uh, of.
Different things associated with, uh, OCDand body dysmorphia and things like that.
So for me to look at my own body andfor the very first time in my whole
(45:54):
life, I think I did not first thinkof all the things that I thought were
wrong about what I look like, you know,pinpointing things that were like, oh,
my hair is a bit messy, or whatever itwas, I was ab absolutely able to see
myself for maybe the very first time.
And one thing that other peoplehad expressed was their experience
(46:15):
was that although we all have avery different experience in the
psychedelic journey, there were somethemes that were very much the same.
One is no matter what we're seeing withthe visuals or with the experiences or
with the emotions, some of, some of thepeople experienced seeing themselves, um,
(46:37):
at a younger age going through the traumasthey've been through or experiences,
sometimes they felt those emotions.
Um, sometimes the images were alittle scary, creepy, or like, whoa.
But we all experienced one thing togetherthat I think is really fascinating.
None of us was scared.
(46:57):
It was almost like we could seefear but be removed from it.
And that is a lot of the healing work thatI do in a, in a regular session without
the guided ketamine to, to assist it.
To assist the experience.
It's like you get to see your own traumas,you get to see your emotions, you get to
(47:19):
shift them and move them and visualizethem moving, but you also get to have a
lot of compassion for yourself in that.
You don't actually have tofeel any certain way about
yourself during all of that.
I'm a good person.
I'm a good soul.
I'm part of the collectiveconsciousness and spirit of the
universe, but I am not a bad person.
(47:40):
Even though I've experienced these things,even though I've done these things,
whatever it might be, I had an anchorbecause it was my first time doing it.
I, um, a lot of people who experienceit for the first time, they don't
wanna completely leave their body,and I already have control issues.
So, um, my ring that spins,it's like a fidget spinner.
(48:03):
That was something that kept anchoring me.
So during the session I would dothis and I could feel my hand, and I
knew it was my hand, but it also feltlike it was a million miles away.
Like I'd left my body completely so.
I know that the experience was reallypositive for me because I was able
to, uh, to integrate or to go throughthe integration process afterwards.
(48:30):
And I personally feel that the integratedprocessing technique that I do.
Um, Sheel also does emotional processing.
She helps you integrate afterwards.
Um.
And the integrated processing techniquesessions that I do, I think would be
absolutely excellent for a preparatorypre-integration before a session and after
(48:54):
I took a, took time, the day after I.
To do, uh, a process on myself to beable to go back to, what was it at
age two, that I need to know, thatI need to process, that I need to
rewrite if I'm writing my own story.
And the ketamine that allowed meto actually rewrite my own story.
(49:14):
It allowed me to break up all ofthose old core beliefs and things.
And to say, what now do I wannaembrace and accept into my life?
So that's why I was very intentionalabout the time I spent after the session
and going through my day, my habits.
Um, obviously I couldn't change absolutelyeverything I don't like about myself and
(49:36):
my life in the next 72 hours afterwards,but I really did set an intention.
I was very mindful aboutwhat I engaged with.
So I would go around going.
I wanna believe that the universe hasmy back, that everything works for me.
I don't wanna believe that I'll beabandoned or that things won't work out.
(49:58):
I want to go into the next thing I do asif everything's gonna work out for me,
and that's how I'd like to live and think.
And then I'm letting the, excuseme, letting the session, letting
the ketamine mushy brain integrationperiod really work for me.
So I highly recommend that,um, as a way to shift things.
(50:20):
Maybe a little bit more quickly,a little bit more easily for you.
Um, if you would like more informationon being able to, perhaps if you do
not live locally and you want to doa guided ketamine session from where
you are, but you'd like to schedulewith me to do an integrated processing
session before you do your session.
(50:40):
Or leading, um, in the time after you'redoing your session, uh, or perhaps
you are just interested in doing a lotof this kind of work, uh, to rewrite
your brain and to get your needs metin new, better, more healthy ways.
Uh, you can reach outto me@prismhealing.com.
(51:01):
You can book sessions with me online.
On Zoom and we can work, wecan do the work together.
Uh, I'm not in competition obviouslywith any other energy healers, but if
you go back to my episode about howto spot a fraud, that is one of the
things I feel very strongly about,that you need to find people that
are safe and that will will actuallyempower you and help you and I fully.
(51:25):
Trust the healers that I work with and theones that I invite to be on this podcast.
So I'm so grateful to she fordoing the same work that I do in
completely different and new ways.
No energy healer is exactly the same.
That's why we're not in competition.
Um, she's an incredible resourceand I absolutely hail to her.
(51:45):
All things that have to do withbeing a psychedelic sitter and
being trained with that and the.
16 years of experienceshe has doing energy work.
This is definitely, um, an amazingsacred work that we get to do
and we're very honored to do it.
So find her, as she saidin her Light Academy.
(52:07):
You can find me at Prism Healing.
And if you like this episode or anyof the episodes of Practically magic,
I'm going to ask you to please like.
To share, to comment if something reallysticks with you and you think that you
know someone in your life that couldbenefit from the experiences and the,
(52:28):
um, wisdom that we're sharing here,please share the episode with them and
ask them to subscribe because it helps usmake more content for you, and hopefully
that will better your life and help youfind real and true magic in the world.
And one last thing.
I have a lot of really great events,classes, and cool things coming up,
which is available at Prism Healingwebsite, but it's also available on
(52:52):
our new Practically Magic website.
You just have to go practically dashMagic Magic with a CK and then click at
the top at the store and you will see.
The new events classes, some of theclasses are online so you can take
them through Zoom and lots of reallycool things are happening there.
(53:12):
So I'm really excited tooffer new things to you.
Yeah, so I think that's,that's the gist of it.
I hope I've pretty much coveredeverything you need to know.
It's time for me to get out ofhere and go make my own magic.
I would like you to goout there and really.
(53:33):
See yourself for who you truly are becausewe are all infinitely powerful, magical
beings able to perform amazing miracleson this earth in our lifetime and beyond.
And I know that now more than ever.
So go make magic, witches and wizards.
Hello and welcome to Practically Magic.
I am your host, Courtney Pearl.
Today we have a very special episodebecause we are going to be sharing
with you some of the experiences thatI've had with psychedelics and healing.
I wanted to talk about it as a subject,but like most things, it's really
just not enough to talk about it.
(00:21):
You have to experience it.
So we did a very special groupKetamine session, uh, very safely with.
The guest that we are gonna have today,guided Ketamine and Interlight Academy,
and I'm gonna talk a little bit about thatexperience and why it is so important to
do it in a very safe and controlled way.
So before we get to our episode, before weget to our interview, I would just like to
(00:46):
pull a card and I am actually going to usethe seasons of the Witch Beltane because
it is at the time we're recording this.
We're entering Beltane season.
It is the time between the springequinox and the summer solstice, and
it is a sacred time for the CelticFyre Festival and, um, the wheel of
(01:08):
the year and the card that I pulledfor today's episode is actually the
Phoenix, and I pulled this ahead of time.
Because I really wanted to get a feelfor the day and how this was going to
play a part in what we're working on.
And what I think is interesting is,uh, I had my kids pull a card, uh, a
(01:32):
goddess card for our altar before schooltoday, and we got the Goddess Col of
Destruction and the word is liberation.
And then the Phoenix card going alongwith that really invites an element of.
Destruction, chaos, tearing things down.
(01:52):
It might be associated withthe tarot, uh, the tower card.
And it really gives the impressionthat you have to be really
willing to let destruction andchaos go to surrender to it.
And I find this fascinating because whilethis card was not picked specifically
for this episode, it was picked.
For today, and it goes absolutelyperfectly with the idea we're
(02:16):
gonna talk about with ketamine.
And I'm gonna talk more about myexperience after the interview,
so stay tuned for that because I'mgonna do a follow up afterwards.
Um, before I get into it.
Um.
I just wanted to give you a visualto help explain the way that I
helped my kids understand what thisPhoenix or Cali card really means.
(02:40):
And I said, if you were in a cell,a jail cell, and you would put
yourself there, but you can't get out.
And it's not very comfy and it's notvery cozy, but it's really all you know.
So you stay there and you,you put yourself there because
you don't know any different.
Would you want to get out?
(03:02):
Would you wanna get out of thatcell and experience other places?
And they said yes.
And I said, okay.
So before that can happen,we have to destroy the walls.
We have to destroy the cell.
And the energy of Cali ordestruction is really about
freeing ourselves from the selves.
We've put ourselves into the.
(03:23):
Jail cell, we put ourselves into the cageswe put ourselves in, so we that then can
re rebirth, rise from the ashes and becomewho it is we want or are meant to be.
So I love that theme for today'sepisode because we're gonna talk
a lot about what that looks likewith a guided ketamine session and
(03:44):
with psychedelics, how it really.
Helps propel you into a space where youcan start breaking down all of those
walls and rebuilding them in a way that'smuch more suited to you and your freedom.
Okay, let's get to it.
Hi.
Welcome back.
This is my living room and I've invited.
(04:07):
Dr. Uffer from Guide Ketamine and ShandalPinot from Inner Life Academy to join me
to talk about psychedelics and healing.
And we have some adventures to sharewith you, some adventures we've
been on in the last couple of weeks.
So I'm excited to talk about this because.
First of all, you have a really greatstory in how you came to be a part of
(04:27):
all of this, this woowoo Healing Worlds,as some people refer to it, and then the
actual medical side of things that you do.
So how did you end updoing guided ketamine?
Yeah, it's kind of interesting 'cause.
I'm a year into my journey and I findmyself surrounded in a community that
(04:48):
I've never been a part of before.
The whole spiritual, um, yeah.
Whatever you want to call it.
Woo woo.
Or whatever people call us.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I am, I am emergency medicinetrained, worked at trauma centers
and emergency rooms my entire career.
So almost 20 years of, um, justworking like a standard er doctor job.
(05:13):
And it was, I, it's gotta be close totwo years ago now, I underwent treatment
with ketamine as a patient and it kindof changed my whole trajectory of my
career and what I do and what I believe.
And typically like ketamine'sassociated with treating for pain?
(05:35):
Yeah, so I would use, soKetamine's been around for.
Since the 1960s, I believe, and has alwaysbeen used in human medicine, it gets a
rep as being like a horse tranquilizer.
'cause it is used in veterinary medicinetoo, but it's used in human medicine more.
Um, but I would use ketamine inthe emergency room to anesta I
(05:55):
people to put 'em down, to put 'em,put, knock 'em out for procedures.
And so I use ketamine all thetime, but never for mental health.
And I had heard, you know.
People talking aboutketamine for mental health.
Um, it's been like 20 years sincethe very first study suggested
that it could be helpful.
And so I'd heard people talkingabout it, but I never paid attention
(06:17):
to it 'cause that's not how Iused it in the emergency room.
Um, until year and a half or twoyears ago, I came across a paper
that was talking and showingwhat Ketamine did to your brain.
Um, after.
You got it as a patient, andit was a study where they were
looking at the brains of mice.
(06:39):
And after a single dose of ketamine,the, the researchers were able to watch
a whole bunch of new synapses grow new.
The synapses are the connectionsbetween the neurons and your brain.
A whole bunch of new synapses growand forming, literally forming, like
physically forming new connections andopening up new parts of the brain and.
(07:02):
It was that paper that made me sayto myself like, geez, is this does,
is this actually the real deal?
Because I had been poo-pooing ketaminefor mental health for, for years.
Okay.
Okay.
There's, and you had to be converted?
Well, right.
'cause there's, there's fads that comein along in medicine all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
I'm very science oriented andwestern medicine trained, and I'm
(07:26):
like, you know, colon cleansesof the world and the IV vitamins.
I'm kind of like, youknow, that's kind of a fad.
Like, show me the data and showme that it's actually working.
And so I kind of delved into the researchbehind ketamine and there's literally
like hundreds of papers not only showingthat people feel better, um, from a
(07:47):
mental health standpoint and the, the.
The mental health, um, issues thatare most well-studied are depression.
Anxiety and PTSD.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So hun literally hundreds ofstudies people with these conditions
can be treated with ketamineand feel better afterwards.
But was what was more interesting to meis that in more recently, maybe in the
(08:11):
last five to seven years, the studieshave gotten down to what's actually
happening at the cellular level.
Um, you know, the mechanism of whypeople might feel better and what it.
Is showing is exactly what Isaid about the mice brains.
Yeah.
Same as in humans.
It stimulates the proliferationof synapses and new connections
(08:33):
in your brain, and literallyopens up new neural pathways,
opens up new areas of your brain.
And this is why the, thepopular media likes to use
buzzwords like neuroplasticity.
Rewiring.
Mm-hmm.
Resetting.
It's, it all comes down to the fact thatit is stimulating new synapse growth and
(08:54):
opening up new pathways in your brain.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I think of when I think oflike, what people call a shift or they're
like, I feel the shift happening and inthe world of like, without the, the help
of the chemicals or the help of that,just in an emotional healing world.
Um, therapist and peoplethat I've talked to.
(09:15):
This is all possible to rewire the brain,but takes years and years and years
of, um, first of all, high emotion,uh, you know, looking at things with
the help of somebody who can helpyou look at things from a different
perspective because our brains aremapped by the time, like eight years old.
(09:35):
So.
It's pretty much like everythingthat we've decided we need to
do in our lives, how we get ourneeds met and things like that.
And, um, I talked in another episodeabout the chemicals of the brain, uh, how
to get those chemicals, those chemicalsthat make us feel good in the brain.
We like all have our wayof getting that need met.
But it's so hard to rewrite thatonce it's solidified as a synopsis.
(09:57):
It's like that's all we know.
So I know for me personally, in my healingjourney, there's so much work being done
for years and years and years, and yougo, oh, there's a new way to do that.
But there's still always that old way.
And so sometimes when you get intoa stuck space of being confused or
triggered, you just go, I don't reallyknow what else to do but that old way.
(10:18):
So you sometimes end up goingback to the old way anyway.
So we're gonna talk about thiswhen we talk about my session.
We, there's so much more to talkabout with rewriting the brain.
But you talked about before, you talkedabout, uh, the chemical need because
I know about like the basic ones.
We know endorphins and dopamine,um, but ketamine is like addressing
(10:44):
a different chemical that mostof us don't know about, right?
Yeah.
So like you said, everybodyhas kinda heard about.
The dopamines and the serotonins ofthe world, these neurotransmitters
that help regulate emotions.
But there's one that gets less, um, lessattention, and it's truthfully less well
(11:05):
understood than dopamine and serotonin andnorepinephrine, but it's called glutamate.
And ketamine binds to the same receptorthat the glutamate binds to in your brain.
Yeah.
And it's not, it's notcompletely understood.
How and why, but there's kind ofa cascade of events that leads to
stimulation of your neurons, firingof neurons all over your brain.
(11:28):
That gives you the psychedelic experiencewhile those neurons are firing, but it
for some reason, it also stimulates.
The neurons to then search for newconnections after the experience.
And that's where the growth of newsynapses, um, you know, like another buzz
(11:50):
word, like fertilizer for your brain.
Mm-hmm.
It is like your, after the medicine,your neurons just start to like reach
for each other and form new connections.
Yeah.
And for me, that was the selling point.
That's when I became a believer, right?
So not only do people say that theyfeel better afterwards, but now
there's a mechanism to explain why.
(12:12):
And you combine those two thingstogether and I'm like, this, this is it.
This is the real deal.
It's working.
Yeah.
You know why it's working.
And I can feel that so much.
I called it mushy brain after the session.
I mean, there was the psychedelicexperience, which we'll talk about, but
I was like, for the next day or two, Iwas so aware that my brain was in a state
(12:39):
that felt like it would accept whatever.
I fed it very respect.
So I was very like intentional.
And that's, um, we'll get tolike where you come in because.
It's your work as a healer in what you doto be like, Kate, it's really important
to what you do with this time and theseaffirmations that I'm helping you with.
(12:59):
'cause I was like, okay, whatever.
Affirmation.
It was like a buffetof what do I want now?
Yeah.
And I wanna like make sure that's whatI'm feeding myself with for the next.
48 hours.
So I, I intentionally, like I told myfamily, we're not turning on the tv.
I'm not turning on any, I'm notgetting, not getting on social media
for anything that I don't absolutelyhave to, and I'm, you know, all of these
(13:22):
things that I wanna make sure that I.
Reprogram my brain.
Mm-hmm.
As much as possible.
Now, I, you know, I will prefacethat by saying it's not magical.
It can't just fix everythingin my life in one session.
So I realized that's gonna beimportant, but it really was helpful
for me to be intentional aboutwhat is it now moving forward?
Like, how do I.
(13:43):
How do I really use this time?
Very, very wisely and carefully.
So you realizing that a lot of peoplewere doing like ketamine treatments
in a clinical type setting, butmaybe weren't receiving the support
that they needed in the before andthe after and the elements of how it
actually opened up, uh, consciousness.
Like in a, in a spiritual way.
(14:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And come stand out.
Well, exactly.
So I learned early on.
In this journey, you, the medicineis going to stimulate some synapse
growth, but it's not, you can'tjust take it and go on exactly
how you've always gone, gone on.
(14:24):
You actually have to trainthat new growth, grow into some
positive like neural loops.
And the truth was that I'man emergency room doctor.
That I realized, like I'm not trained tohelp people from an emotional standpoint.
(14:45):
Right.
I can give you the medicine,I can make sure you're safe.
I can make sure you don't overdose.
I can get you through the experience.
Um, but man, I was way out of myleague when it came to supporting
somebody from an emotional or spiritualstandpoint because, and I think
you said, we'll talk about this.
It is.
(15:06):
Of any medicine I've ever givenit is the one that crosses the
border between science and westernmedicine into the metaphysical or
the spiritual, or like whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Religious, whatever youwant to describe it.
Yeah.
And that is where I waslike, I, now I'm lost.
(15:28):
Like this is not what I do.
Um, and that is how I endedup working with Chantelle.
Yeah.
In comes your story.
Okay.
And you've been a sitterbefore Ketamine, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour background in coming into
this and we'll meet in the middle.
Yeah.
Um, so I've been an energyhealer for 15 years and, um, it
(15:54):
was six years ago that I was.
Told to go sit with ayahuasca.
So I sat with Ayahuasca andthat completely changed the
trajectory of what I was workingwith and what I was working on.
Um, I did not facilitate ayahuasca.
That's way bigger job than me.
But, um, I did facilitate withother medicines for a while.
(16:16):
Um, a lot of that stuff is, you know,underground because it's not legal.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's not talked about.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I would holdspace for a lot of my.
Clients.
And then all of a suddenketamine was like everywhere.
Yeah.
And I had quite a few of myclients coming in, being like, oh
my gosh, I had a ketamine sessionyesterday and it was awful.
(16:37):
And I was so scared.
They just left me in a room by myselfor like, they just, I wasn't even fully
out of the medicine and they kickedme out and I had to get in the car
and I had to leave, or like my sitterwas late and I had to sit on the curb.
Like there were so many things.
Um.
And so I ended up having to like cleanup energetically and emotionally all
of these people and I'm like this,that medicine is supposed to be helping
(17:01):
you not creating additional trauma.
Yeah.
Can you imagine being right after,and your neuropathways are all mushy
and you're ready to like accept newthings and the thing you accept is
I'm abandoned and no one came to me.
Right.
Right.
Well, and like to go back to whatyou said, that you can just get the
medicine and it does what it does,but also like if you go back to your
normal everyday life, if you are inthe back of the car just scrolling as
(17:25):
they drive you home, you're reiteratingthe life you just tried to get out of.
Mm-hmm.
You're just like cementing it in more.
And so as I started having more andmore of these clients that were like.
I need help.
I just did another session andI, I'm still feeling like this.
And, um, I was a driverfor my best friend.
I was her driver, and I took her toa clinic and talked to the doctor,
(17:50):
which they're an amazing clinic.
The doctor actually doessit with you there, right?
Um, and so I talked to her andshe's like, we have a training.
And I'm like, I'm in.
And I went through their training.
It was great.
And I was like.
And there's so much more than even in thattraining could allow for in that space.
(18:12):
And then I met him at the psychedelicconference and I was like.
I wanted to talk to you.
'cause if you're going intopeople's homes, that is
literally the perfect setting.
Mm-hmm.
For people that they can createwhat they need to know in order
to create the safety and space.
And, um, then, you know, when we worktogether, I can offer that actual.
(18:35):
Preparing because you, you shouldgo in prepared to what you're
about to experience mm-hmm.
Mentally and emotionally.
And if, especially if you've neverhad a psychedelic experience before,
which a lot of people don't orhaven't, but they're willing to
try ketamine because of the data.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it's important for you to kindof have some idea of what you may
(18:55):
experience while you're in there,um, because it can be overwhelming.
Yeah.
And so like I, you know, then where I comein from all of my years of, of sitting
with people both for emotional processing,energy work, um, and then psychedelics,
uh, it's been a, a really good combo.
Yeah.
I'm one of those, the first timers.
(19:17):
Yeah.
And I, I had wanted just beingin the healing world and learning
everything I could and, um, youknow, just being kind of like, um.
A lifelong learner of these things.
I was like, I know I wanna try somethingat some point, but I'm also, I mean, I've
never done anything like I barely drink.
(19:40):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, no.
Nothing outside of the bodythat comes into my body.
I really haven't experienced very muchcompared to probably most people who
try things here and there and like theyhave a wild youth and whatever they do.
I have not had any of that.
I was a very clean person,so it was just like.
Okay, if I'm gonna do this, Ireally wanna make sure I'm safe.
(20:00):
Like I really, I'm looking for somethingwhere I really trust the people I'm
with and I really feel like, um, I we'redoing this kind of all the right ways.
I'm not worried about anything happening.
And so when the opportunity camealong, I'm like, I think this is it.
This is when I need to trend this.
I always thought it might be likea shaman or somebody that does an
ayahuasca trip to things that they do.
(20:22):
And, um, I know that there'soptions where un under religious.
Right laws.
They can, they can do certain things.
And so I thought maybe thatwould be a route I would go.
But then this came up, I was like, thisis what I feel is going to be my a,
a good thing for my first experience.
I need to like have this in a, in a placewhere I feel like everybody knows what
they're doing and they're very highlyqualified and I am completely safe.
(20:45):
And so we did do it in a groupsetting and we'll show some of the
clips of, uh, what that was likeand what, what we went through, but.
Uh, I really just have to say I appreciatethat, first of all, um, because I've
been seeking healing in an emotionaland energy healing world for many years.
I was aware of what Iwas going into it for.
(21:07):
Hmm.
I think that's really helpful.
Yeah.
So when people have asked me is I'vehad clients that are saying, I'm gonna
go have academy session, and I'm like,and they're like, what should I do?
Or what should I know?
I'm like, I don't knowanything about that.
But I think that a session before.
And a session after in emotional healing.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, would be really helpful.
Um, just what I know of it.
(21:28):
So having experienced it now I cansay, oh, it was really helpful to
go in there knowing like, this iswhat I wanna change in my life.
These are things that I havebeen trying and working on and
shifting for a long time, and thengo into it with some intention.
So it's great that you do like the, uh,what do you call it, the intake interview?
Yeah.
I usually do like pre-integration.
(21:49):
Pre-integration.
Yeah.
So you kind of talk to us on the phone andsay, what is it that you wanna work on?
What is it that you're looking for?
The doctor aspect of it islike, again, super safe.
I feel like someone is theremonitoring me, has all my medical
information, asked for all these things.
Beforehand.
So you knew like if there was anythingin my medical history or anything
(22:10):
that I needed to know, you knew thedosages, um, that were appropriate
for me and everything like that.
And then during the session you'relike, monitoring your heart, I'm
monitoring your oxygen, you'll be okay.
So I'm like, great.
I can absolutely kick back andtotally not worry about a thing.
Right?
Yeah.
And I'll actually, I'llsay something about that.
It's interesting that ketamine is.
(22:32):
The psychedelic that is legal becauseit's kind of the most dangerous one.
Right.
And you talk about psilocybin, whichis mushrooms, or you talk about LSD.
Or even DMT, like you people don'treally overdose or have medical
complications from those psychedelics.
Mm-hmm.
Ketamine, you can, you can become oversedated and suppress your respirations.
(22:56):
Not often, but it's possible.
Yeah.
It can raise your blood pressure,it can raise your heart rate.
It can cause you, you'rerelatively sedated.
So if you threw up whileyou were sedated, you.
You have a risk of choking or aspirating.
Mm-hmm.
And so it really does need to beadministered by a medical person.
Yeah.
Who is ready to intervene if any kindaside effect or complication happens.
(23:20):
And it's, those are all very rare.
A knock on wood, I'venever, I, I met over 400.
You know, like home visitsthat I've done for people.
I've never had any kindaserious complication, but
the possibility is there.
So you do need somebody mm-hmm.
Who is trained to interveneif something medical happens.
(23:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm glad that you mentioned that too.
And I was, um, interested too andjust kind of the comparison between
something that's plant-based ornatural based and something synthetic.
Created like Ken means.
So I'm glad that you brought that up.
And, uh, so in, in, I, and I dowanna say that I have now had the
(24:01):
experience of being both the one inthe session and then being able to
sit with you during a session whensomebody was having their session.
And, um, and by the way, justbeing an observer, I reiterate,
I'm not qualified and I've nothad the training that you've had.
I was there literallyjust to be an observer.
But what I thought was interesting aboutthat experience, being on the outside of
(24:24):
it and watching it and watching your workand what you guys do is, um, it felt to
me like, uh, I could absolutely see youas an incarnate, as a priestess of isis.
I. One of those people that, um, inhistory have been known to be like
the healing priestesses that they comein and they do the anointing of the
oils and they do the, uh, that's how Ienvisioned you as we were doing that.
(24:47):
I was like, look at her, do her thing, andthis is just all happening all at once.
You know?
So I really appreciate that perspective,or you letting me have that yeah,
moment where I could just be like,I'm just this other body in the room
and I get to just be here under this.
Light of your wisdom as it were.
(25:09):
But yeah, we'll go into kind of thegroup session that we have and the
experience that we had because, um,'cause they wanna talk about just how.
What you're saying it does to the brain.
Um, and I am a Pisces,uh, I'm a modern mystic.
I kind of, I didn't even realizethis until the last couple of years.
I thought everybody just lived likethis, but I live kind of in a different
(25:30):
realm all the time anyway, that's justlike how I've always done my life.
Everybody was like, oh, you're suchan imaginative person, or you're
imaginative child, and I'm like.
Isn't.
That doesn't, because I thought thateverybody lived like this, but now
realizing that, you know, especiallywhen I'm doing something like breath
work or a sound bath, I can disassociate.
I feel like I can leave my body, Ican leave, I can go to other worlds.
(25:54):
So already during the session you startedwith a sound bath and you started with the
bowls, and so I was kind of already gone.
I was like, I'm in the stars,I'm leaving and then coming for
the first injection that you did.
It brought me back.
'cause I had to be like,oh, that's my body.
I'm over here again.
You know, getting the shot.
(26:14):
Um, and then you, it kind ofslowly takes you into it and it
really felt kind of like dropping.
Mm-hmm.
It feels like you're dropping out of yourbody or, um, I kind of thought it would
be more like ascending, but it's, it kindof feels like you're just dropping out.
Everything just kind of relaxes.
Yeah.
It just kind of goes, go into otherworlds, kind of start to see other things.
(26:36):
I did.
Um.
Um, and we kind of talked about you,you kind of helped prepare us in
saying that you might think you'llsee lots of colors, but you might
not, it can be really dull and mutedas far as the colors go and stuff.
But the first thing Isaw was bright colors.
I saw colors and shapesand things like that.
And it wasn't until after the secondinjection that I started to, it started
(26:59):
to come together as kind of like, um.
One of the ladies, I, I, in oursession, she said it exactly
the way that I was imagined.
It, it was like being a dune.
We were just in different worlds.
I saw different worlds.
I saw, um, a lot of pyramids.
(27:19):
Hmm.
I saw pyramids in different places.
Like if it was like on dune,on a. Kind of a desert.
It was like the pyramid there, orit was like a green world, kind of
an avatar with lots of greenery.
It was pyramids.
Um, I went to a place that wasall white and cold, like a like.
At the Arctic, but it was pyramids andsome of the pyramids were like this, and
(27:43):
some of the pyramids were upside down.
Sometimes I was in like an arenathat was huge and spacious, but
there was always a pyramid there.
Interesting.
Yeah, it was really fascinating IfI did actually visit other worlds.
They have pyramids theretoo, just so everybody knows.
Yeah.
And you know it's listening to you.
I always, it always reminds me, it isso difficult to try to describe Yeah.
(28:07):
The experience.
Yeah.
'cause you probably feel likeyou're not doing it justice.
'cause it was so, it's bizarre.
And then somebody listening islike, okay, you saw pyramids, right?
Like, and it is very difficult to tryto explain what it's like because it
truly is an experience that is not.
I mean, unless you've done otherpsychedelics, it's a, it's an
(28:28):
experience that you've never had before.
Right.
And you almost can't put it into words.
Yeah, true.
And I think it, from a medical'sperspective, what's happening
is that the ketamine binds this.
Receptor that glutamate typically binds.
There's a cascade of events and it leadsto neurons firing all over your brain.
(28:49):
I mean, almost like aseizure, but more organized.
But just like neurons everywhere, alot of the firing is in your occipital
lobe, which is the visual cortex.
Okay.
And so makes you're.
Your consciousness or yoursoul, or however you want
to describe it, who you are.
Your brain takes all theseinputs and it has never seen
(29:14):
that pattern of inputs before.
Because as you're living your life,you would never be doing anything
that would firing off all theseneurons in the that type of pattern.
Mm-hmm.
So your consciousnesstakes all this input.
And it tries to present you withwhat it thinks is happening.
Okay.
And so you get all these neuronsfiring in your visual cortex and your
consciousness is like, um, okay, well Iguess it's this, here's some pyramids.
(29:39):
Mm-hmm.
Or here, you know, here's some Yeah.
Swirling lights or whateverit thinks is happening.
But, but it scrambles your visuals.
Mm-hmm.
But it scrambles your sense of body.
So most people don't feel their bodyor feel like they leave their body feel
like their body is stretching or falling.
Or rising.
Mm-hmm.
(29:59):
Um, it scrambles youremotions a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
So you, it can bring upsuper strong emotions.
It can make you laugh, it can make youcry without even really knowing why.
But it also, it does scrambleyour thinking just a little bit
too, and never really to the pointof like forgetting who you are.
(30:22):
Um, your rational thought is still intact,but it does force you to sometimes drop
some barriers that you've put up orto, I have a lot of those bring things
that you've been avoiding more to thesurface, and so you get in that space.
And not only is there a psychedelicexperience going on, but you have to,
(30:45):
you are oftentimes faced with theselike emotional, spiritual experiences
at the same time, and that is, thatis not something that Western Medicine
prepares you for as so I wasn'tprepared for it as a patient myself.
(31:07):
Um, and I wasn't prepared for it as.
The person giving the ketamine.
And so that, and again, like here Iam talking about the science behind
it, but so the science behind it.
No, that's okay.
You're the Scully right of the Xbox.
I'm an X Browne fan.
He's the medical guy and we're,uh, she's like the molder.
(31:28):
She lives on the supernatural.
The science behind it is easy.
Like my side is easy.
I know I can give you the medicine if you.
Stop breathing, I'll fix that.
If you have your heartrate spikes, I'll fix that.
If your blood pressuredrops, I'll fix that.
But like, um, I don'tknow what I was doing.
Like I And you're doing the supportingthe emotional, the physical or
(31:49):
the, the spiritual side of things.
Mm-hmm.
And you're actually doing the energywork, like what we would typically
see in reiki and you're going throughand doing that and receiving messages.
Yeah.
So when I am, when, ifwe have like one-on-ones.
Specifically.
'cause when we do it in groups,I'm a little bit more spread out.
So I only take a fewmoments with each person.
But, um, as long as they're opento, you know, having energy work.
(32:13):
Um, and it's not always like reiki really,it is whatever the person is needing.
Mm-hmm.
And I always preface with like, Idon't take out energy, but what I do
is I will be able to see where thereis a blockage, where there is a built
up of energy that can sometimes.
Create those difficult times in theexperience or the like, overwhelm.
(32:37):
And I just help support it.
I help shift it, I helpget it to start moving.
Um, and then it creates thedeeper understanding of what
it is they're experiencing.
And um, then I do end up with a lotof messages that I just write down.
Yeah.
Super powerful.
Uh, I mean, I can onlyimagine just enhancing.
(32:58):
Even with the work, when I go into receive energy work or I'm doing
energy work with a client, um,first of all, it's really powerful
to let people have the experience.
Like instead of, here's me telling youeverything that you're gonna do and
heal and, and, and go through, justletting them be the guide of the session.
(33:19):
Super powerful already.
Um, and it was very comforting for meto prepare for the session and being
able to go, I'm probably going to.
Uh, freak out a little bit.
Losing control.
I knew that from doingthe breath work session.
When you start to go into it and, andthey let you know, they're like about five
to seven minutes in of this breathing.
(33:40):
You're hyperventilating yourself.
You're going to lock up.
You might this, you might,um, have a surge of anxiety.
Like, I don't know what's happening.
I don't like this.
And knowing myself and part of lettinggo control is a lot of my healing
work is I was like, I don't know.
I might start to dropout and drop into things.
I might start to panic.
Like, there's no going, there'sno coming back, there's no, um,
(34:05):
you know, I can't take it back.
I can't come out by my choice.
I have to let go.
Um, and as much as I wanted that,I knew that that might have a
moment where I'd be like, oh, no.
You were really good about, like,what, what do you think you might need?
Mm-hmm.
Do you need me to come hold your hand?
Do you need me to, um, you know,if you wave your hand and say,
hold my hand, I'll hold your hand.
(34:25):
Or just words of affirmation,you're here, you're in this room.
But, um, I found that that should be theabsolute best part of the experience was
that once I was able to go, you know what?
This is happening.
I can't do anything about it now.
Yeah.
I gotta just.
Flow with it.
Mm-hmm.
And that being the lesson I neededmost and knowing that that's the
(34:47):
lesson I need most and still theyears of work I've done have not
allowed me to let go to that level.
Yeah.
So that was probably one of the mostpowerful things for me to be able to
go, Hey, I'm gonna have this experience.
I'm gonna go wherever I go.
I'm gonna see whatever Isee and I'm just gonna.
Let it happen.
Mm-hmm.
And then I was able to really enjoythe experience and have a lot of peace.
(35:12):
And I, I remember the very beginningwhen I saw kind of colors and all of
these things, it kind of looked likeblocks or structures or whatever it was.
And I, I remember thinking asif praying or speaking to the
universe, like what matters.
What actually matters.
And then all of it just fell apart.
(35:35):
Everything just melted like it went away.
And this overwhelming sense oflike nothing, nothing matters.
And afterwards, you telling me thatwas similar to your experience, but you
saying you get to decide what matters.
Mm-hmm.
So that was powerful for me becausemy affirmation became after that.
Um, I assign meaning to what matters.
(35:55):
Mm-hmm.
And I said that over and over againfor the next 48 hours was just,
I assign meaning to what matters.
And I didn't even realize, I mean,maybe I did subconsciously, but I
didn't even realize how many thingsin my life I was making matter.
Yeah.
Like everything.
Like everything.
Every little thing in mylife was like, that matters.
(36:18):
That matters.
That matters.
And you even said the messageto me, which you don't know
me well enough to know, right.
But you said you are trying way toohard like you are, you are trying.
Um, you said don't be.
Oh my gosh.
I'm trying to remember exactly the wordsthat you said because it was so great.
But it was like, don't go throughthe motions, be in your emotions.
(36:40):
Mm-hmm.
And I, and I was like, yep,that's exactly what I needed.
That's what I need to hear, because Ido tend to be like, this matters and
this matters, and this matters whatI wear, what I do, what, what my kids
are doing every moment of every day.
And then I just go, thatdoesn't really matter.
Yeah.
Like, what are my priorities?
Because I had that, that, again,emotional experience in, in the
(37:05):
session of I really love my kids.
And I just love the work I do.
And I just, and at one point I had whatyou called an egoic death afterwards.
'cause I said there was apoint where I ceased to exist.
I didn't even know whoCourtney was anymore.
I was like, Courtney, who?
(37:26):
Who's that?
I am nothing.
And nobody.
And I had a vague semblanceof like, I do have kids in a
family, but I'm, I was just like.
They're fine.
Yeah.
Like if I died right now and this isdeath and I'm leaving my body, I'm
like, then everybody will be fine.
(37:48):
Yeah.
And if that's what death is,we shouldn't be afraid of it.
Right.
It feels great.
Right.
Like it's all good.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Do you want to kind of, um, talkabout anything more about your
side of things in that experience?
In your experience?
Just my experience or just in general?
Yeah.
I mean, I think with anybody's experience,like especially with, with any psychedelic
(38:11):
and with the ketamine is like clinicsright now are cranking people out, but
not giving them the education mm-hmm.
Of.
How beneficial it is, what theycan and should be doing before,
during, and after a session.
And you know, like I stopped servingother psychedelics long ago just
for the sake that I'm like, I wannahelp people like actually integrate
(38:34):
their experience and have it show upin their everyday life of like, you
had that moment where you're like.
I don't know if anything matters.
Right.
And then I'm like, okay, well how areyou gonna apply that to your life?
Mm-hmm.
Instead of you being like, oh, I had thismoment where nothing really mattered.
Yeah.
Now I'm gonna go back to my lifeand everything freaking matters.
Right?
Yeah.
You don't, I just solidifiedthat back into my brain.
(38:56):
Yeah.
And so now, like knowing how importantit is for you to take that and work
with it, I always say 48 to 72 hours.
Mm-hmm.
Because I say, do the extra work.
Yeah.
Um, and.
Uh, my heart is truly inmaking people feel safe and
(39:16):
open enough in their experiencethat they can completely let go.
Mm-hmm.
And then on the after effect ofhow can I support you afterwards,
how can I take those little tinymoments that you had in there and
make meaning to their everyday life?
Mm-hmm.
Instead of just the oneexperience that they had.
And it was super cool.
(39:38):
Yes, it's, it's truly like, like Isaid earlier, it's kind of, um, feels
just like the ancient healers of like
isis, the priestesses of isis, which, um,there's some correlation to Mary Magdalene
possibly being a, a priestess of isis andthat was her role and things like that.
(40:00):
And that's kind of where I associate that.
Um.
Being able to be with people, beingable to really actually guide and
support them through what they'rethey're doing and what they need.
Um, so it's like, it's sacred work, right?
Yeah.
And so thank you fordoing that Sacred work.
Yeah.
It's important work.
And, um, and I'm with you in that.
I would love for anything thatI do, any work that I do to help
support people in that transitionand in just that aftermath of.
(40:25):
Um, let's make new decisions.
Mm-hmm.
Now that you're able to, yeah.
Now that you can see that thereare more options than just the same
patterns you've always been in, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's a very beautiful blend of themedical and spiritual and mystical
and emotional and mental and physical.
Yeah.
You can just package thatall up in a nice, neat ball.
(40:45):
It's really all aboutall of those things, so.
Before we go, tell us where peoplecan find you and follow you.
Yeah, so technically, technicallywe have two separate businesses.
Mm-hmm.
We work together, so mine's calledGuided Ketamine, salt Lake City, so
(41:06):
guided ketamine, salt lake city.com.
Um, all my information's on there, andI do, I do, we kind of touched on this,
but what the psychedelic people willtalk about the, what they call the set
in the setting, so the mindset mm-hmm.
Going in and the setting inwhich you do the medicine.
Yeah.
And if either of those are, feel off, itcan lead to a bad experience, a bad trip.
(41:32):
Right.
And so we, when I. Well, Idecided that I wanted to try to
optimize that set and setting.
Yes.
And so all the chandeland I do our home visits.
We're like mobile, sowe come to your house.
It's my favorite part.
Do you get a treatment in on your bed oron your couch with your cat on your lap
(41:55):
or your partner next holding your hand?
So, um, yeah.
Yeah.
So we don't have a physicallocation, but we kind of travel
throughout the Salt Lake Valley.
Yeah.
And I highly recommend when you goon that website to just read his
story, read a little bit about that.
'cause it's all really fascinating.
It is really good.
Get you a little bit more about him.
Yeah.
And, and then I'm Interlight Academy.
(42:17):
Um, I'm in Riverton and I go with him.
And then I also have my ownpractice at my own home.
And then we also do groups twice a month.
Yep.
Lovely home.
That's where we did the group session.
I know, because, uh, when I gotthere and did the session and then
afterwards came up out of the.
Basement and was like.
We were here the whole time.
(42:39):
It felt like we were here for years.
We, we were just here,completely forgot where we were.
I forgot anybody was in the room with me.
So clearly had a great experience.
Lovely.
Good.
Yes.
Um, so thank you so much for comingand talking and having this discussion.
Um, even more so than being here onpractically magic, but just providing
(42:59):
us with the opportunity to experiencethis and to have that group session for
us all to, um, to get, to have that.
And, uh, yeah, we'll be hearingmore from them very soon, so.
Okay.
Thanks.
Thanks, thanks.
Thanks for having us.
And we're back.
What a great conversation that we had.
(43:20):
There's still so much more that we talkedabout off camera that we really didn't
even have time to cut, to touch base with.
So, um, there's a couple ofthings that I want to just talk
about with my experience and.
When having a guided Ketamine session,what it felt like to me, and as Dr.
Uncover said, it's almost impossibleto explain or to let people really
(43:42):
fully understand what it means to havea psychedelic experience or even just
a ketamine psychedelic experience.
Excuse me.
Nose is itchy.
It's allergy season.
But I want to just kind of reiterate againthe feelings that I had in going through
that about an hour after the session.
(44:04):
And they give you plenty of timeto integrate and to come back
to yourself fully, which reallytook me an extra amount of time.
I feel.
I felt like I really didn't evenrecognize who I was in this body and
had to take a minute to remember thatthere were other people in the room
that had done this experience with me.
So I may may have been a littlefurther out there than, than
(44:28):
some people get to have and.
Everybody's experiences are so different.
So who, who's to say?
But I did have, uh, some time to discussthings, to kind of come back to myself
to, to feel more stable, uh, get somethingto eat, and I finally felt well enough to
(44:49):
move to get up, walk, go to the bathroom.
So I had plenty of time, butI went into the bathroom and I
noticed my face in the mirror.
And the feeling that I had whenseeing my face for the first time
after the experience and after havingkind of what I call mushy brain.
My brain was all mushy.
(45:10):
I'm looking at my own self and I thinkfor the very first time in my entire
life, I felt no judgment, no shame.
And I don't think I've ever felt whatthat actually feels like, just as I have
been participating in healing work formyself when engaging with other people
(45:31):
as a facilitator, as a healer, I thinkit's really important to understand
that we are people too, and we havethe same healing work that we're doing,
but I suffer from a lot of, uh, of.
Different things associated with, uh, OCDand body dysmorphia and things like that.
So for me to look at my own body andfor the very first time in my whole
(45:54):
life, I think I did not first thinkof all the things that I thought were
wrong about what I look like, you know,pinpointing things that were like, oh,
my hair is a bit messy, or whatever itwas, I was ab absolutely able to see
myself for maybe the very first time.
And one thing that other peoplehad expressed was their experience
(46:15):
was that although we all have avery different experience in the
psychedelic journey, there were somethemes that were very much the same.
One is no matter what we're seeing withthe visuals or with the experiences or
with the emotions, some of, some of thepeople experienced seeing themselves, um,
(46:37):
at a younger age going through the traumasthey've been through or experiences,
sometimes they felt those emotions.
Um, sometimes the images were alittle scary, creepy, or like, whoa.
But we all experienced one thing togetherthat I think is really fascinating.
None of us was scared.
(46:57):
It was almost like we could seefear but be removed from it.
And that is a lot of the healing work thatI do in a, in a regular session without
the guided ketamine to, to assist it.
To assist the experience.
It's like you get to see your own traumas,you get to see your emotions, you get to
(47:19):
shift them and move them and visualizethem moving, but you also get to have a
lot of compassion for yourself in that.
You don't actually have tofeel any certain way about
yourself during all of that.
I'm a good person.
I'm a good soul.
I'm part of the collectiveconsciousness and spirit of the
universe, but I am not a bad person.
(47:40):
Even though I've experienced these things,even though I've done these things,
whatever it might be, I had an anchorbecause it was my first time doing it.
I, um, a lot of people who experienceit for the first time, they don't
wanna completely leave their body,and I already have control issues.
So, um, my ring that spins,it's like a fidget spinner.
(48:03):
That was something that kept anchoring me.
So during the session I would dothis and I could feel my hand, and I
knew it was my hand, but it also feltlike it was a million miles away.
Like I'd left my body completely so.
I know that the experience was reallypositive for me because I was able
to, uh, to integrate or to go throughthe integration process afterwards.
(48:30):
And I personally feel that the integratedprocessing technique that I do.
Um, Sheel also does emotional processing.
She helps you integrate afterwards.
Um.
And the integrated processing techniquesessions that I do, I think would be
absolutely excellent for a preparatorypre-integration before a session and after
(48:54):
I took a, took time, the day after I.
To do, uh, a process on myself to beable to go back to, what was it at
age two, that I need to know, thatI need to process, that I need to
rewrite if I'm writing my own story.
And the ketamine that allowed meto actually rewrite my own story.
(49:14):
It allowed me to break up all ofthose old core beliefs and things.
And to say, what now do I wannaembrace and accept into my life?
So that's why I was very intentionalabout the time I spent after the session
and going through my day, my habits.
Um, obviously I couldn't change absolutelyeverything I don't like about myself and
(49:36):
my life in the next 72 hours afterwards,but I really did set an intention.
I was very mindful aboutwhat I engaged with.
So I would go around going.
I wanna believe that the universe hasmy back, that everything works for me.
I don't wanna believe that I'll beabandoned or that things won't work out.
(49:58):
I want to go into the next thing I do asif everything's gonna work out for me,
and that's how I'd like to live and think.
And then I'm letting the, excuseme, letting the session, letting
the ketamine mushy brain integrationperiod really work for me.
So I highly recommend that,um, as a way to shift things.
(50:20):
Maybe a little bit more quickly,a little bit more easily for you.
Um, if you would like more informationon being able to, perhaps if you do
not live locally and you want to doa guided ketamine session from where
you are, but you'd like to schedulewith me to do an integrated processing
session before you do your session.
(50:40):
Or leading, um, in the time after you'redoing your session, uh, or perhaps
you are just interested in doing a lotof this kind of work, uh, to rewrite
your brain and to get your needs metin new, better, more healthy ways.
Uh, you can reach outto me@prismhealing.com.
(51:01):
You can book sessions with me online.
On Zoom and we can work, wecan do the work together.
Uh, I'm not in competition obviouslywith any other energy healers, but if
you go back to my episode about howto spot a fraud, that is one of the
things I feel very strongly about,that you need to find people that
are safe and that will will actuallyempower you and help you and I fully.
(51:25):
Trust the healers that I work with and theones that I invite to be on this podcast.
So I'm so grateful to she fordoing the same work that I do in
completely different and new ways.
No energy healer is exactly the same.
That's why we're not in competition.
Um, she's an incredible resourceand I absolutely hail to her.
(51:45):
All things that have to do withbeing a psychedelic sitter and
being trained with that and the.
16 years of experienceshe has doing energy work.
This is definitely, um, an amazingsacred work that we get to do
and we're very honored to do it.
So find her, as she saidin her Light Academy.
(52:07):
You can find me at Prism Healing.
And if you like this episode or anyof the episodes of Practically magic,
I'm going to ask you to please like.
To share, to comment if something reallysticks with you and you think that you
know someone in your life that couldbenefit from the experiences and the,
(52:28):
um, wisdom that we're sharing here,please share the episode with them and
ask them to subscribe because it helps usmake more content for you, and hopefully
that will better your life and help youfind real and true magic in the world.
And one last thing.
I have a lot of really great events,classes, and cool things coming up,
which is available at Prism Healingwebsite, but it's also available on
(52:52):
our new Practically Magic website.
You just have to go practically dashMagic Magic with a CK and then click at
the top at the store and you will see.
The new events classes, some of theclasses are online so you can take
them through Zoom and lots of reallycool things are happening there.
(53:12):
So I'm really excited tooffer new things to you.
Yeah, so I think that's,that's the gist of it.
I hope I've pretty much coveredeverything you need to know.
It's time for me to get out ofhere and go make my own magic.
I would like you to goout there and really.
(53:33):
See yourself for who you truly are becausewe are all infinitely powerful, magical
beings able to perform amazing miracleson this earth in our lifetime and beyond.
And I know that now more than ever.
So go make magic, witches and wizards.
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