February 28, 2025 • 41 mins
Carson attends the American Forage and Grassland Conference where he visits with Corteva's Range and Pasture Field Scientist, Sam Ingram. Together they share tips on pasture management and discuss the release of the new pasture herbicide, NovaGraz.
Link to product label and safety data sheet: https://www.corteva.us/products-and-solutions/pasture-management/novagraz.html
Survey: https://missouri.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_7W2aUGOLZ0oKYjs
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome
to the Productive Pasturespodcast, the podcast where we talk about
forage production, foragelivestock interactions
and the business dynamicsof grazing management.
I'm your host, CarsonRoberts, Missouri forage specialist.
Join me to visit withsome of the most progressive minds
in Missouri's forage and livestockindustry.
We'll share ideas that could help maximizeyour profitability
(00:31):
and productivity.
Welcome.
I'm here with Sam Ingram.
We're at the, Well,I wanted to call it the forage conference,
but it's the American Forageand Grassland Conference.
So, yeah.
(00:51):
Sam, you work for Corteva.
Could you tell me a little bit
about yourself where, you know,where you grew up in America and.
Yeah.
Or if you grew up in America,I'm sure you did.
But I did. Yep.
That was a safe assumption on your part.Okay, good.
Yeah.
I grew up, you know, in, Georgia, just
north of Atlanta in a town called Rome,Georgia.
(01:14):
It's about an hour and a half north.
Grew up on a beef cattle farm.
There with, it was a small operation,
a lot of land, but not a lot of cows.
More forestry with some
lowlands that had,
predominantly tall fescue based systems,but just cow calf operation.
Commercial cows.
(01:35):
My dad worked in town at a paper mill.
My mom was a nurse, but,nonetheless grew up on that farm
and developed a passion for agriculture.
So, from that point,
I did just enough to get the itchand went to University of Georgia
and did my bachelors degree
in animal science there at UGA.
(01:56):
Finished that up and went into universitysystem as an extension agent,
as an extension agentfor for five years within UGA,
and also during that time
that it might be the same at Missouri,but, a lot of the universities
there offered to university staffthe opportunity to go back to school.
(02:21):
So. Right.
Yeah, I went back to schoolwhile I was an extension agent,
got my master's there also in animalscience, focusing in on,
alternative forages
and finish that up.
Stayed on with extension for a while,then left and went to NC state
to finish up my program.
Got my PhD there.
(02:42):
Cool.
So alternative forages.
What crops were you working? What?
What were some of those alternative crops?
So the project, my main project workat University of Georgia
was on grazing canola in the winter time.
Okay.
So as a dual purpose cropvery similar to winter wheat,
(03:03):
we actually that was our comparison.
That was our positivecontrol was winter wheat.
So we grazed canola up
to a certain point in the falland early spring,
pulled those stocker cattle offand then harvested the
the seed there, crushed it,got an oil content and tried to.
This was during
(03:23):
the time that they were trying to growthe canola acres in the southeast.
They're predominately in the Dakotas,in the U.S..
Yeah.
So that was a fun project.
You know, just getting into
what what that project did for me and
and the master's is as a whole,was it introduced me to other things
or other forages beyond Bermuda,
(03:45):
tall fescue, you know, and really expandedthe grazing system there.
Right. Cool.
So out of curiosity, how did how didthe canola go as far as grazing it?
It was it was great.
If, you're making me reach back here.
So that was almost
well over ten years agonow, but, canola the great
(04:07):
as far as a production standpoint,over the two years that we grazed it
and, the cattle, it was like rocket fuelfor the cattle, right?
Yeah. So. So they gained really well.Oh, yeah, they did.
They did a great job. It was impressive.
Similar to it was better than the wheatfrom a digestibility
standpoint and a crude protein standpoint,
you didn't want to stand behind those cowswhen when they were eating, you know?
(04:30):
Yeah, it was,it was going through them pretty quick,
even when it's a roughagesource out there.
So a lot of timeswe would have hay out there with them.
But, that was a really fun,
fun project.
It was working with DennisHancock and Holland Stewart.
Okay.
Dennis here at the at the meeting, but.
Right.
Yeah, I, I saw Dennis a few timesand he is now at the,
(04:53):
at the dairy Production Research Centerin Wisconsin.
Yup. Doing a lot of work therenow, but yeah, pretty cool.
So for your PhD, what did you do for that?
My main project work was with Matt Poor,who's also at this meeting.
So you can kind of figure out, probably where I why I'm at this meeting
(05:17):
still and why I got this job herewith Corteva agri science.
It was just for being a partof this group, which is an awesome one.
But, my main project worked at NCstate was renovation
of toxic tall fescueto novel endophyte tall fescue.
And the way we approach that was withsmother crops, over the summer.
(05:39):
So we did a couple of different thingswhere we did a shortened,
just a spray out in the spring, planta summer crop, smother out
that tall fescue,and then plant in the fall.
And we also did an
extended, renovation strategywhere we sprayed out in the spring,
planted a summer crop in the summer,then a fall crop
and then another summer cropand then planted that following fall.
(06:02):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
The the thought processthere was to alleviate
one, just the upfront costs that you have
when you're renovating a pasturebecause it's obviously costly.
And we're thinking you could
get higher gains on those annual cropsor annual forages.
Obviously they're going to come up,which we were successful with.
That was good.
But yeah, that was another good, goodproject there.
(06:26):
Had a couple of different, tentacles
beyond that one where we fed some cattle
with, toxic tall fescue and then finishedthem out, had a smaller project
for weed control in that newly established
tall fescue stand battlingback crabgrass that was, more
(06:47):
naturalized in the standard tall fescue.
So lot a lot learned therethat the three years at NC state.
Yeah. Wow.
That's really neat.
So a lot of lot of
forage experiencethroughout the entire process.
Now here at Corteva,and I think that if, if,
(07:08):
if you were to go in front of,to run in front of a producer
at the grocery store, the one thinghe's probably going to ask you
about is, is, pro clova or,
at least that's what it has been known atas during this research phase.
But now it is called Novograze.Yeah, yeah.
(07:28):
You're right.
That and that, that would be onethat they would ask that question
and previously referred to as Pro Clova.
Now it is it is Novagraze.
And they would ask me when can I get it.
And finally now you know, we've gotfederal registration for it
and state registrationsare coming in the majority of the states
(07:49):
where you would see this productas a, as a really good fit that they have.
And and it is it's in Missouri.Yeah. That's correct.
So and I know there's a number of peoplethat are pretty excited
about it in the stateto to have it as an option.
Absolutely.
I think they should be excited about it,because when I think about Missouri being,
(08:09):
you know, tall, fescue dominantand where white clover
is just a great companionto the tall fescue system.
Now with NovaGraze,you have an option to control broadleaf
weed plants in that system.
The tall fescue white clover system.
Take out some of those that are,
(08:30):
troublesome to that producer,whether he or she wants to remove out,
you know, things like biennialthistles, bindweed species.
We're going to be effectiveon taking those out.
Buttercup species,while still preserving the white clover.
So that's going to be aI mean, it's a huge,
huge product for specifically it'sgoing to be across the board.
(08:53):
I think it's going to fitwell across many regions.
But when I think about Missouriand being tall fescue based system,
it's going to be,
I think very welcomed as a new toolin the toolbox for those producers.
Right, right.
And and, you know, because that's, that'sbeen the historical issue
because a lot of people that have Cloverdo not want to see it leave
(09:15):
because of the nitrogen benefitthat it has.
And there there is a gain benefit to that.
As far as the animal is concerned.
And and there's been a number of studies,in Missouri
showing that when you have legumes in the,in the pasture,
that you're, that you're stockpiletall fescue,
(09:36):
yield is better that you're having betterspring gains.
It's it's helping alleviatesome of the issues surrounding,
tall fescue toxicity a little bit.
Not not as much with the white cloveras with the red clover, but definitely,
there's a lot of advantages to having,a little bit of diversity in the sward.
(10:00):
Absolutely.
And, and that's been one of the downfallsof a lot of herbicides
as of lately, really,
that they don't have the capabilityto maintain diversity.
Right.
And and so this, is able
to accomplisha little bit of that diversity while,
removing some of this species,that aren't productive at all.
(10:25):
Yes, there are several benefits
when you add in or you maintain,preserve your white clover in that sward
like you were saying, you know,just from an economic standpoint.
On the nitrogen inputs that we
we don't have to bring any of thatnitrogen source from our farm.
We're keeping thatwith with the white clover.
(10:46):
If we're able to preserve it.
The, the gains there from a per
pounds of beef produced on a per acre,or if, if somebody is just trying to do
well from an individual standpoint,you know, if their seed stock or whatever
have you,they're trying to get mama cows bred back
that higher quality with crude proteinand better digestibility
(11:08):
with that white clover is a true benefitfor a lot of those producers.
And, it just complements that tall fescueso well.
It's a really nice systemto have those two together.
Yeah. Okay.
So some of the nuts and bolts of thischemistry, it is not new chemistry.
It is combination of a few,
(11:29):
very well known chemistriesthat, that you guys have put together.
How long have you been
I guess my first question is,how long have you been working on this?
How how long has it been in the, I guess,the works, the pipeline at Corteva.
Yes. So
it is a combination of two chemistries,one being 2,4-D
(11:50):
and the other being Rinscorewhich is for peroxide for benzyl.
So you, you know,you say they're not new chemistries.
I agree with you on the 2,4-D component.
But Rinscore is the newest
moleculebrought to the range in pasture space.
In the past, you know, 30 years.
So we don't we don't bring a lot of well,maybe not 30, but so 15.
(12:12):
Right.
So it's the newest moleculethat we've had in the, in the range
and pasture space.
So it's all relative,I guess, but it is a newer one.
It's one you can find in other productsthat we have
like duracorethat has rinscore in it as well.
But the combination of those two,we've been looking
at those molecules before I've come on.
(12:34):
And that plays into
just the life
of the of a herbicideas we bring it to market.
You know, it's not hey, we found thisthis molecule, it has potential.
Let's go out and sell it.
It it starts way before that to wherewe have something of promise internally.
We're going to look at it for a long timeto just see where it fits
(12:56):
in, to make sure the claimsthat we make about performance
or tolerance in this case,you know, preservation of of white clover
to make sure that that fitsbefore we ever get it to the shelf.
So it's it's been a long time come.
And even before I came on with Corteva,which is almost five years ago now,
you know,we've been working on it for several years
(13:17):
so we could make sure it's rightand make sure it fits.
And the producers see value in it too.
So want to go out thereand to purchase it.
But you know, that has to be a successfor for them to, to want to use it again.
So that's where
the work we've
done internallyand externally with with cooperators,
university cooperators,you know, they're,
(13:40):
University of Missouri and throughout,
throughout the US
working with those folksto make sure when we put things on label
that we have confidence in that from, trial work.
Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
You don't want to muddy your name by.
Yeah.
I, it's adding somethingthat's crummy out.
(14:02):
It's it's like driving a Ford, you know?
Just kidding.
All you Fordguys out there, don't get mad at me.
Yeah? Yeah, right.
Well,I got a Chevy right now, and I think I'd
rather have a Ford at the momentbecause of the transmission issues.
Oh, really? Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I, I can't speak for the new Chevy'sbecause I don't,
I, I don't have much experiencewith new vehicles at all, but
(14:24):
but the old Chevy's did really well,you know, the, the,
I guess the 2000 through 2006
models are almost bulletproof, really.
But the not not taking it off on a trucktangent.
Right, right.
Well,if you want to figure out what, vehicle
to buy, you always go ask the mechanicsthat work at the dealership
(14:45):
and they'll tell you what year modelto stay away from.
Which one to go after. Right?
Yeah,that's a little advice beyond forages.
Cool. Yeah. So.
All right.
Now, I lost my train of thought,
but I had a reallya lot of really good questions to ask you.
Okay.
(15:06):
What?
What weeds does this not work on?
So with NovaGrazeyou know, we're going to be spray.
And you talked about the nuts and bolts,so just a use rate pattern
we're going to be spraying it24oz fluid ounces per acre.
And that application plus 1% MSO.
(15:27):
We're going to be really goodon several of the the weeds.
I mean, obviously
you can be able to find them on the label,but things we want to avoid
where we can do a better job with
with other things in our portfolio.
I think about things
like dog fennel in her dogfennel as a, as an issue.
(15:48):
We're here in the state of Floridaand it's a huge issue here.
But across the southeastand even into the Mid-Atlantic,
I would imagine somewhat into Missouri,
I'd have to admit I don't know exactly,but yeah, I wouldn't know either.
Yeah.
I'd imagine there's some over thereright.
We're going to avoid that. Yeah.
But, you know, hemp dogbane
(16:10):
we've got
better options for that that late season.
Semi woody plant as it comes
in encroaching,know, some other watch outs.
trying to think there.
Yeah. It's easier for me to think aboutwhich ones I would.
I would recommend it on.
Yeah.
Than the sayone of the big ones in our state
in past years is cockle burrs.
(16:32):
I think that's athat's a pretty common one in Missouri
where, where we,we fight that, pretty common.
And but anyway, it's a in part,
you know, poor grazing management, to some degree for the cockle burrs.
But, I mean,if you're trying to fix a pasture,
(16:53):
this might be a good way to to quicklyget rid of the cockle burrs.
Or does it have what's its effectivenesslike on a cockle burr plant?
Yeah cockle burrswe we do a really good job.
Cut to 24 ounce. Right.
We will do a very good jobof controlling the cockle burrs.
Other things that folks might,come into to issues.
(17:13):
Spiny amaranth,
you know, pigweed, spiny pigweed.
We do a great job there.
I know in Missouri,we we would battle biennial thistles.
Yeah. So biennial thistles were goodthere.
Plumeless Musk Thistle.
So I think about those.
Yeah.
What about the age of the plant?
I mean, how how big can you knowsome of these thistles when they get big?
(17:37):
Yeah, they're really difficult to control.
And the same thing with our cockleburrs.
Sure.
I think with, with the thistles,obviously I want it
general with the herbicideapplication is a good growing plant.
But in best case scenario
I'd like to get that onein the rosette stage before it bolts.
(17:57):
We can still have good, good success
after it bolts, but and a lot of times,unfortunately that's when we go after them
because then we start noticingbecause that's when you see them.
Yeah.When they're started bolting. Yeah, yeah.
If we can get them in the rosette stage,we'll have really good success.
And I mean even
the application window
(18:18):
for, for this as it sits is probably,
you know, laterspring for a lot of our producers
when they startseeing these winter annuals,
and then moving into early summerfor some of these summer annuals,
like the cockleburr.
But, you know, even if we get warm days
in late fall or early winter,
(18:39):
which we can have that in Missouri, even
I know we have it here in the southeast,but we can have that in Missouri.
Well, I, I,we kind of had a late fall as it were.
I mean, we grow grewmost of our stockpile in November
this year, at least at the Forage SystemsResearch Center.
It it was looking really baduntil about, November 1st.
(19:01):
And then the rain came,because we had, dry two months there,
and then the rain came
and then we had a lot of growthbecause it was warm and sunny
for a couple of weeks.
And, and we saw a lot of growth.
And, and then it turned a little cold.
But I mean, that that almost saved us.
Really? Yeah.
But so, yeah, and,
(19:24):
and I guess some of the weedsthat would come on in the fall that.
Yeah, you probably got goodgermination of those too at that time.
Yeah.
And once we get those,you know, young growing plant,
they were going to be really effectiveon, on controlling them.
And then you just you take them outbefore they're ever able to,
to rob nutrients and moisturefor those plants
(19:48):
that were trying to stockpile and startgrazing here in, in the winter time.
Right in the spring.
Yeah.
One thing to note here before we move onto other topics, you mentioned MSO,
not non ionic surfactant,not crop oil concentrate.
It must be MSO.
At least that's what I gatheredfrom your presentation earlier.
(20:10):
Yeah.
And I think that's somethingthat somebody like myself
would make a mistake and be like,oh, says MSO, but I'll use crop oil.
What what happens when you do that?
Yeah.
So the, the reason for the recommendationon, on the MSO is just so we maintain
that consistency across the board from,from a efficacy standpoint.
(20:32):
But you know, with crop oilsdepending on, on temperatures,
you know,we can get into some phyto or some,
some injury potential injuryinto the, the grass.
And with that for Missouri,I think about tall fescue.
So if we go over in the cropoil space temperatures are high enough.
We can have a little bit of damageon that too.
(20:52):
So MSO is is the lane we need to stay infor the adjuvant piece, right.
Yeah. That's good.
And then I had another question.
Or no, this was just a basic statement.
It, it seems like,you know, with a low value, forage like,
or a low value crop, like a foragethat sometimes we forget to scout, or
(21:16):
or we don't pay enough attentionto scouting or walking through fields.
And I think that that's a really importantpiece when it comes to weed management
because, getting the I guess we say itall the time in extension,
putting some boots on the groundand walking through pastures,
even when you're not grazing themor you're not there and,
(21:40):
and instead of just riding by,you can avoid a lot of wrecks,
because, because, you know,
there may be some things lurking in therethat, that
you need to pay attention to.
And, and that's best donethrough, through,
taking inventory of pastures really.
(22:02):
And I think that's important.
And I agree with, good grazers.
And this is somethingwe teach in our grazing school.
You need to be taking a, a pastureinventory anyways
so that you can properly manageyour grazing.
So, I guess if you're,if you're out there listening,
my first recommendation to youis, is get out on your pastures
(22:27):
and take forage inventoryand and check your,
for forage species that you have out thereto see what you have.
And then you can make some betterinformed decisions on management.
And I think that's a really importantpiece as as we talk about
weed management,then you don't have to resort
(22:49):
to some of these train wreck situationswhere it's like,
oh my goodness,I have a four foot tall plant.
Right.
And and then and then somethingthat could have been very useful.
Works have halfway works because,
big plants are harder tocontrol than little plants.
And so I think that that's
(23:09):
really important to state,as we start talking about this.
So that's a really good point.
And I agree that the just a simpleyou can find, a lot of methods,
one that I think back tois just the point step method of
find a point on your on your shoeor your boot, you know,
(23:29):
and you can either do a transect
or just randomly throughout a paddockor pasture.
Say you want to do 100 points across that
across that pasture,you know, you just say every third step,
this point on my boot,that it lands on something.
I'm gonna record that eitheron a pen and pad or just,
(23:51):
from a from your mind standpoint,
is it bare ground,is it grass, is it a broadleaf?
Is it a broadleaf that I want?
You know, then you startgetting that inventory and you start
having a better understandingof what your, your pastures look like.
Right.
Yeah. And,and I think that's really useful.
And you and you'll learn a lotabout your pasture.
(24:13):
You'll learn a ton about what,what is actually there.
Because if youif you go out there and your method is,
every other right foot step,
on my toe, I will write down what,what my, my right toe lands on.
And if half the time you're writing down
dirt,then maybe there's some problems there.
(24:35):
You know, it's not a good thing, is it?
That's not a good thing.
And, Or if half the time you're writing, you're
writing downsome type of unfavorable forage,
and then we can start talking about somethings like better grazing management.
Better nutrient management and,and better weed management.
And I think an integrated approachlike that
(24:58):
will will help producers in a lot of ways.
yep, I agree with you therethat we have to have,
even though I work for a herbicidecompany, it's not the end all be all.
It's not the silver bullet. Yeah.
It's a tool in the toolboxthat when you can pull that lever yeah.
Pull it.
But we've got to have
(25:19):
a lot of other things that we're thinkingabout throughout the growing season
to make it successful. Well, it happened.
It happenedway too often among the crop farmers.
And, and that's why they have so many, resistance issues is because it,
it was just,
you know, like the candy machine,they were pulling that lever all day long.
(25:39):
And, and,
a lot oftimes not considering other options and,
and, and using, reusing the same chemistryover and over and over again.
And it just, it just led to chemistriesthat didn't work anymore.
And I, I don't know about you, but
I don't really want that to happento the forage world.
(26:02):
So yeah. Absolutely not.
No I, I want I want to have effectiveoptions for them for the long term.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I, you know, for, for this industry,for the producers
that we talked toin this conference for sure.
But outside of the space.
So I, I cover the whole eastern U.S.,but spend time on farms
(26:25):
with folks when we do internal trial workor when I'm visiting with our
commercial counterparts who are scatteredacross the US, territory managers,
you know, for, for a lot of those folks,they're doing the right things
or they're out there scoutingand they want to
they want to take advantageof every everything they have.
Yeah. Tools in the toolbox.
(26:45):
Yeah.
Basically they want to take advantageof those at the right time, right rates.
It's going to make sense for themobviously economically.
Yeah.
But they're trying toto get the most out of that acre
to be productiveand in the end be sustainable.
Right. Yeah.
So I, I have sprayed a little bit of,of the NovaGraze.
(27:08):
Last year, I got my paws on a little bit of it
and I sprayed it on a pretty,
I guess, diverse, spot in the field,which is exactly where I needed to be.
Sprayed it. Thisthis place had red clover.
It had, had birdsfoot trefoil.
(27:28):
It had, a number of different grassesand it had white clover
all in the same pasture.
And, I was really sad,but it smoked the bird's foot
trefoil completely dead and gone.
So, so don't try to use it on birds foottrefoil.
Killed the red clover pretty readily.
(27:52):
And it and it actually stuntedthe white clover a little bit.
And I don't think that
the you shouldn't be surprised at that.
It, it kind of reminded meof the type of damage
you would see with Valspar or, an alfalfa.
How how it just kind of sets it back.
You know, a week or two.
(28:14):
It feels like itsets it back a week or two. Yeah.
And and then after that,it just came on strong again.
And, and it was a healthy plant,but I think that's worth noting.
I don't know if you've seen that in other,in other trials,
but I suspect that's pretty common.
Yeah.
And the, the key reason why we say
(28:36):
the focus on this product is for
we're only recommendingon white clover and annual lespedezia
is because we've, we've seen that with,with red clover for sure,
where we just don't want to makethat recommendation because we have too
much cytotoxicity, where we'll take outa lot of those stands.
And, the focus needs to be on whiteclover, birdsfoot treefoil
(28:58):
some of those other legumeswhere we're just not gonna
go down that road
to where, because we want to setexpectations of
this is where this fits of it's whiteclover.
It's annual lespediza.
Let's stay there.
Let's set expectations on thethe setback, like you said,
where white clover is still goingto have to metabolize that herbicide.
(29:21):
So we're going to set it back.
We're going to seea little bit of lodging.
We're going to seea little bit of yellowing.
But the plant comes backjust like you said,
more upright growth.
The blooms will come back.
And the key thing hereis, you know, we're removing that
unwanted weed pressure from that system.
And we're letting the the twobecause, you know, it's
(29:44):
going to probably be in a tall fescuewhite clover system.
We'll get the two speciesthat we want to thrive
or let them thriveafter that herbicide application.
But there is going to be a periodwhere we're going to set it back,
and we need to where we're being proactiveand talking about that
because we want producers to to knowthat's going to happen
(30:07):
and, just realize that it will come back.
Yeah.
And I think that's important.
And don't be alarmed.
And, and I was kind of alarmedwhen I, when I first
went back like,I don't know, five days later
and I started walking around and, and I'mlike, oh, man, this stuff got smoked.
And, and, but anyway.
(30:28):
And then I came back in 2 or 3 weeksand I was like, oh, well, it's it's
still alive.
It's still here, it's still growingand everything is good.
But but, I, I guess that's, that's
an important thingto, to look at another thing
that with that, that I
thought aboutwas you're setting back the white clover
(30:53):
at a time of the year, you know,if you're spraying this, mid-May or,
you know, early May, April or whatever,you're
in the middle of the fescue plant going,
100 miles an hour, growing like crazy,
and you're setting back the white clover.
And that gives the,that gives a tall fescue
(31:17):
a competitive advantageover the white clover.
And, so, so the concernthere is that you're actually diminishing
white clover, not from the chemistry,but from over competition.
But, you mentioned earlier during the meetings
that there are some ways to manage aroundthat so that you don't have that issue.
(31:37):
Yeah.
And that's a really good point,that when we're making these applications
this spring growth that we're counting onfor that tall fescue
and the white clover, that's when it's,you know, it's actively growing to
some of the, the methods for setting backthe grass before application.
So when we go in and graze,
(32:00):
say we know we're ready,we've made a commitment
to making our herbicide applicationin that paddock because we know
we've had traditional weed pressure.
What we'd like to see to minimizenot only the impact on the white clover,
but to have a good responsefrom the white clover.
What we'd like to see is, is go in therewith moderate grazing pressure,
(32:22):
go in there and graze that paddock, removesome of the leaf
area of the tall fescuewhile also removing white clover,
or we're going to removesome of the petioles there.
And that does two things.
We set the the tall fescue backbecause I agree with you.
You know during that timeboth of them are going to be growing.
But tall fescue is metabolizing
(32:45):
that as a grass is metabolizedin that broadleaf weed herbicide.
Yeah. It metabolizesit a little different.
And it's more tolerant of the herbicidethan, clover would be.
Right.
And so it can grow throughthat a lot easier. Yeah.
But if if we're setting it backwith, with grazing pressure
and removing some of that
leaf area of the white clover,we're only going to do a better job
(33:06):
and see a better response of the overallgrowth coming back on the white clover.
So when you say lightly graze,are you talking 50% utilization?
25% utilization.
What's the target there? Yes.
Well we could go moderateI don't think we want to overgrazed
because when we get into that situationthen we'll probably see some damage
(33:28):
to the white clover because you know,when they go when they release
some into that, that paddock or pasture,what's going to be the preference
of the animal, you know, to start outwith it's going to be the white clover.
So then they're goingto move into the fescue.
So if we leave them in there too longI feel like all over graze
some of the legume.
And that might be detrimental longterm to that stand.
(33:51):
So hard number. Yeah.
Probably closer to that 50or maybe a little above.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. Soand well that's our recommendation.
Anyways, what we teachin the grazing school is 50% utilization,
grazing for a day to a week at most.
And then you're moving away from that,that that's, that's
(34:13):
typically our recommendation. So,
I guess if you're in a managementintensive grazing
type scenario, you're, you'reprobably not going to have any issues.
Is what you're saying.
Yeah.
No, I think they would bethey would be fine. Yeah.
They're in a lot of those cases. Yeah.
And so another thing about this herbicidethis is not a residual herbicide.
(34:36):
Correct.
That's correct. It's a non residual.
And when we talk about residual herbicidesyou think of products
that have likewithin our portfolio duracore grazon next.
Both have amino acid in thereand that make up
which is a residual herbicide.
So even after making that applicationwe know we have a window
(34:59):
where we're going to have,control beyond just
what is up and,and has emerged from a weed standpoint.
Right.
They're they're, pre-emergent typeherbicides.
They're, they're,they're they have foliar control.
Right.
But then they have a residual effecton the soil where they're preventing
correct new weeds from growing. Yep.
(35:19):
This being a non residual,we're going to target.
We're going to target 90% weed emergencefor that target weed
we want to go after because we knowwe've got this opportunity.
When we spray.What is up is what's going to get control.
We can't rely on pre-emergent activityafter that.
Right.
What's your what's your,return, to grazing after you spray?
(35:43):
How long do you have to leave animals offbefore you can come back in there
after an application?
So the beauty on this one isthere's no grazing restrictions
for probably 98% of the situations
that producers in Missouri would be in.
But beyond that, across the US.
(36:03):
So the only grazing restriction we have onthis is, is a three day
for lactating dairy cattle, but grazinganimals, beef cattle, zero days.
They can be in the paddockduring during application.
Okay.
Same for non lactating two.
Right, right.
And with this also I suspect
(36:25):
that there is no residualthat goes into the manure or the hay.
Like like with some other chemistriesthat you have,
where, whereif you make hay out of this stuff, you're,
you're not going to worry about feeding itand having that
residual herbicidecarry over on to other fields and whatnot.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
(36:45):
Many folks are familiarwith, the pictogram, just it's just good
stewardshipand management of of the product in the
that the producers are making,whether it be hay or or whatever.
Have you, if they're collecting manure,they're familiar with it,
you know,you just can't put it in sensitive
crop areas with some of our other productswith NovaGraze.
(37:08):
That's not a concern.
Well, is there anything elsethat you can share about it or.
Yes. Well, you know,we talked about it, but we're launching
this is the launch year of of Nova Graze.
So a lot of our range of pasturespecialist
with myselfbeing on the research side as a field
scientist, you know,I get to make sure the product works.
(37:29):
And then we got a great staffon the sell side.
We call them range of pasturespecialists across the US
that are ready to sell this.
They're excited about it.
So if they folkswant to get more information about it,
they can go to Novagraze.us and they canlearn more about Nova Graze in detail.
Maybe if we didn't answerone of the questions they came up with,
(37:51):
as we covered it here today,they can go there.
And also on that website, they can findtheir range of pasture specialists
and that'll connect themwith hopefully with the retailer
that they utilizethat will be carrying this product.
Right.
And in Missouri it would be probably mostpeople would use MFA
(38:11):
and it would probably be David.
Oh, I can't remember his last name.
I think it's David Moore.
Okay, if that sounds right, our,
ready to pasture specialist for Cortevawho has been there.
He's, Okay. Yeah, on the corteva side.
On the other side? Yeah.
He would.
Brandt Mettler is in the state ofMissouri, has his own farm in operation.
(38:36):
So, you know, when he makes
a recommendation, more than likelyhe's done it on his place, right?
And, yeah,he would be the best contact for MFA.
And I know he has a great workingrelationship with MFA
to, to get this product ready.
I know we have state registration there,
so he would be the best one toto reach out to.
And if you can't get in touch with him,
(38:58):
the folks there at that local co-op,they'll know who he is.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and another person to contact is,
Doctor Bradley at the university.
I, I believe he's worked with this,
in a, in a few trialsthat you guys have sponsored.
Yeah.
So within university extension,Doctor Bradley would be a really good,
(39:21):
person, and I can I can link his contactinformation here as well.
And so if you want to talk to him,
that would be a good option too.
And, and in Missouri also,
you know, we have our regional, agronomyspecialists.
Those, those people are really goodat their jobs, and,
(39:45):
and they're usually very up to date onwhat's going on.
So reach out to those people as wellbecause,
because they have a lot of knowledge and,and they've been following this
as closely as anybody.
so, so there's, there's a lot of,there's a lot of resources to reach out
and find people that know a little bitabout this and, and what it can do.
(40:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, the
the producersare have been waiting on this
and they're excited to get it out there.
And they there is a lot of knowledge.
It's already been on farm, been testedthere in the state of Missouri.
So, hopefully we'll see it on a lotof acres that need, need that application.
And we, we get to, to learn more about itas it goes out.
(40:28):
Yeah. All right.
Sounds good.
Well, thank you for coming on. You bet.
and, and, hopefully, I guess we'llprobably see you next year at the meeting.
So. Yeah. Absolutely.If everything goes well.
Yeah, let's hope so.
Anyway, so, we'll be there and, and in North Carolina,
it'll be another good meeting.
Right? All right. Sounds good.
Good deal.Thanks for having me. Thanks, Sam.
(40:55):
Thank you for listeningto the Productive Pastures's Podcast,
brought to you by University of Missouri'sNorthern Missouri Research Extension
and Education Center, Universityof Missouri Extension, and SARE.
The best way to help the show grow is tocomplete the survey found in the show.
Notes.
Welcome
to the Productive Pasturespodcast, the podcast where we talk about
forage production, foragelivestock interactions
and the business dynamicsof grazing management.
I'm your host, CarsonRoberts, Missouri forage specialist.
Join me to visit withsome of the most progressive minds
in Missouri's forage and livestockindustry.
We'll share ideas that could help maximizeyour profitability
(00:31):
and productivity.
Welcome.
I'm here with Sam Ingram.
We're at the, Well,I wanted to call it the forage conference,
but it's the American Forageand Grassland Conference.
So, yeah.
(00:51):
Sam, you work for Corteva.
Could you tell me a little bit
about yourself where, you know,where you grew up in America and.
Yeah.
Or if you grew up in America,I'm sure you did.
But I did. Yep.
That was a safe assumption on your part.Okay, good.
Yeah.
I grew up, you know, in, Georgia, just
north of Atlanta in a town called Rome,Georgia.
(01:14):
It's about an hour and a half north.
Grew up on a beef cattle farm.
There with, it was a small operation,
a lot of land, but not a lot of cows.
More forestry with some
lowlands that had,
predominantly tall fescue based systems,but just cow calf operation.
Commercial cows.
(01:35):
My dad worked in town at a paper mill.
My mom was a nurse, but,nonetheless grew up on that farm
and developed a passion for agriculture.
So, from that point,
I did just enough to get the itchand went to University of Georgia
and did my bachelors degree
in animal science there at UGA.
(01:56):
Finished that up and went into universitysystem as an extension agent,
as an extension agentfor for five years within UGA,
and also during that time
that it might be the same at Missouri,but, a lot of the universities
there offered to university staffthe opportunity to go back to school.
(02:21):
So. Right.
Yeah, I went back to schoolwhile I was an extension agent,
got my master's there also in animalscience, focusing in on,
alternative forages
and finish that up.
Stayed on with extension for a while,then left and went to NC state
to finish up my program.
Got my PhD there.
(02:42):
Cool.
So alternative forages.
What crops were you working? What?
What were some of those alternative crops?
So the project, my main project workat University of Georgia
was on grazing canola in the winter time.
Okay.
So as a dual purpose cropvery similar to winter wheat,
(03:03):
we actually that was our comparison.
That was our positivecontrol was winter wheat.
So we grazed canola up
to a certain point in the falland early spring,
pulled those stocker cattle offand then harvested the
the seed there, crushed it,got an oil content and tried to.
This was during
(03:23):
the time that they were trying to growthe canola acres in the southeast.
They're predominately in the Dakotas,in the U.S..
Yeah.
So that was a fun project.
You know, just getting into
what what that project did for me and
and the master's is as a whole,was it introduced me to other things
or other forages beyond Bermuda,
(03:45):
tall fescue, you know, and really expandedthe grazing system there.
Right. Cool.
So out of curiosity, how did how didthe canola go as far as grazing it?
It was it was great.
If, you're making me reach back here.
So that was almost
well over ten years agonow, but, canola the great
(04:07):
as far as a production standpoint,over the two years that we grazed it
and, the cattle, it was like rocket fuelfor the cattle, right?
Yeah. So. So they gained really well.Oh, yeah, they did.
They did a great job. It was impressive.
Similar to it was better than the wheatfrom a digestibility
standpoint and a crude protein standpoint,
you didn't want to stand behind those cowswhen when they were eating, you know?
(04:30):
Yeah, it was,it was going through them pretty quick,
even when it's a roughagesource out there.
So a lot of timeswe would have hay out there with them.
But, that was a really fun,
fun project.
It was working with DennisHancock and Holland Stewart.
Okay.
Dennis here at the at the meeting, but.
Right.
Yeah, I, I saw Dennis a few timesand he is now at the,
(04:53):
at the dairy Production Research Centerin Wisconsin.
Yup. Doing a lot of work therenow, but yeah, pretty cool.
So for your PhD, what did you do for that?
My main project work was with Matt Poor,who's also at this meeting.
So you can kind of figure out, probably where I why I'm at this meeting
(05:17):
still and why I got this job herewith Corteva agri science.
It was just for being a partof this group, which is an awesome one.
But, my main project worked at NCstate was renovation
of toxic tall fescueto novel endophyte tall fescue.
And the way we approach that was withsmother crops, over the summer.
(05:39):
So we did a couple of different thingswhere we did a shortened,
just a spray out in the spring, planta summer crop, smother out
that tall fescue,and then plant in the fall.
And we also did an
extended, renovation strategywhere we sprayed out in the spring,
planted a summer crop in the summer,then a fall crop
and then another summer cropand then planted that following fall.
(06:02):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
The the thought processthere was to alleviate
one, just the upfront costs that you have
when you're renovating a pasturebecause it's obviously costly.
And we're thinking you could
get higher gains on those annual cropsor annual forages.
Obviously they're going to come up,which we were successful with.
That was good.
But yeah, that was another good, goodproject there.
(06:26):
Had a couple of different, tentacles
beyond that one where we fed some cattle
with, toxic tall fescue and then finishedthem out, had a smaller project
for weed control in that newly established
tall fescue stand battlingback crabgrass that was, more
(06:47):
naturalized in the standard tall fescue.
So lot a lot learned therethat the three years at NC state.
Yeah. Wow.
That's really neat.
So a lot of lot of
forage experiencethroughout the entire process.
Now here at Corteva,and I think that if, if,
(07:08):
if you were to go in front of,to run in front of a producer
at the grocery store, the one thinghe's probably going to ask you
about is, is, pro clova or,
at least that's what it has been known atas during this research phase.
But now it is called Novograze.Yeah, yeah.
(07:28):
You're right.
That and that, that would be onethat they would ask that question
and previously referred to as Pro Clova.
Now it is it is Novagraze.
And they would ask me when can I get it.
And finally now you know, we've gotfederal registration for it
and state registrationsare coming in the majority of the states
(07:49):
where you would see this productas a, as a really good fit that they have.
And and it is it's in Missouri.Yeah. That's correct.
So and I know there's a number of peoplethat are pretty excited
about it in the stateto to have it as an option.
Absolutely.
I think they should be excited about it,because when I think about Missouri being,
(08:09):
you know, tall, fescue dominantand where white clover
is just a great companionto the tall fescue system.
Now with NovaGraze,you have an option to control broadleaf
weed plants in that system.
The tall fescue white clover system.
Take out some of those that are,
(08:30):
troublesome to that producer,whether he or she wants to remove out,
you know, things like biennialthistles, bindweed species.
We're going to be effectiveon taking those out.
Buttercup species,while still preserving the white clover.
So that's going to be aI mean, it's a huge,
huge product for specifically it'sgoing to be across the board.
(08:53):
I think it's going to fitwell across many regions.
But when I think about Missouriand being tall fescue based system,
it's going to be,
I think very welcomed as a new toolin the toolbox for those producers.
Right, right.
And and, you know, because that's, that'sbeen the historical issue
because a lot of people that have Cloverdo not want to see it leave
(09:15):
because of the nitrogen benefitthat it has.
And there there is a gain benefit to that.
As far as the animal is concerned.
And and there's been a number of studies,in Missouri
showing that when you have legumes in the,in the pasture,
that you're, that you're stockpiletall fescue,
(09:36):
yield is better that you're having betterspring gains.
It's it's helping alleviatesome of the issues surrounding,
tall fescue toxicity a little bit.
Not not as much with the white cloveras with the red clover, but definitely,
there's a lot of advantages to having,a little bit of diversity in the sward.
(10:00):
Absolutely.
And, and that's been one of the downfallsof a lot of herbicides
as of lately, really,
that they don't have the capabilityto maintain diversity.
Right.
And and so this, is able
to accomplisha little bit of that diversity while,
removing some of this species,that aren't productive at all.
(10:25):
Yes, there are several benefits
when you add in or you maintain,preserve your white clover in that sward
like you were saying, you know,just from an economic standpoint.
On the nitrogen inputs that we
we don't have to bring any of thatnitrogen source from our farm.
We're keeping thatwith with the white clover.
(10:46):
If we're able to preserve it.
The, the gains there from a per
pounds of beef produced on a per acre,or if, if somebody is just trying to do
well from an individual standpoint,you know, if their seed stock or whatever
have you,they're trying to get mama cows bred back
that higher quality with crude proteinand better digestibility
(11:08):
with that white clover is a true benefitfor a lot of those producers.
And, it just complements that tall fescueso well.
It's a really nice systemto have those two together.
Yeah. Okay.
So some of the nuts and bolts of thischemistry, it is not new chemistry.
It is combination of a few,
(11:29):
very well known chemistriesthat, that you guys have put together.
How long have you been
I guess my first question is,how long have you been working on this?
How how long has it been in the, I guess,the works, the pipeline at Corteva.
Yes. So
it is a combination of two chemistries,one being 2,4-D
(11:50):
and the other being Rinscorewhich is for peroxide for benzyl.
So you, you know,you say they're not new chemistries.
I agree with you on the 2,4-D component.
But Rinscore is the newest
moleculebrought to the range in pasture space.
In the past, you know, 30 years.
So we don't we don't bring a lot of well,maybe not 30, but so 15.
(12:12):
Right.
So it's the newest moleculethat we've had in the, in the range
and pasture space.
So it's all relative,I guess, but it is a newer one.
It's one you can find in other productsthat we have
like duracorethat has rinscore in it as well.
But the combination of those two,we've been looking
at those molecules before I've come on.
(12:34):
And that plays into
just the life
of the of a herbicideas we bring it to market.
You know, it's not hey, we found thisthis molecule, it has potential.
Let's go out and sell it.
It it starts way before that to wherewe have something of promise internally.
We're going to look at it for a long timeto just see where it fits
(12:56):
in, to make sure the claimsthat we make about performance
or tolerance in this case,you know, preservation of of white clover
to make sure that that fitsbefore we ever get it to the shelf.
So it's it's been a long time come.
And even before I came on with Corteva,which is almost five years ago now,
you know,we've been working on it for several years
(13:17):
so we could make sure it's rightand make sure it fits.
And the producers see value in it too.
So want to go out thereand to purchase it.
But you know, that has to be a successfor for them to, to want to use it again.
So that's where
the work we've
done internallyand externally with with cooperators,
university cooperators,you know, they're,
(13:40):
University of Missouri and throughout,
throughout the US
working with those folksto make sure when we put things on label
that we have confidence in that from, trial work.
Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
You don't want to muddy your name by.
Yeah.
I, it's adding somethingthat's crummy out.
(14:02):
It's it's like driving a Ford, you know?
Just kidding.
All you Fordguys out there, don't get mad at me.
Yeah? Yeah, right.
Well,I got a Chevy right now, and I think I'd
rather have a Ford at the momentbecause of the transmission issues.
Oh, really? Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I, I can't speak for the new Chevy'sbecause I don't,
I, I don't have much experiencewith new vehicles at all, but
(14:24):
but the old Chevy's did really well,you know, the, the,
I guess the 2000 through 2006
models are almost bulletproof, really.
But the not not taking it off on a trucktangent.
Right, right.
Well,if you want to figure out what, vehicle
to buy, you always go ask the mechanicsthat work at the dealership
(14:45):
and they'll tell you what year modelto stay away from.
Which one to go after. Right?
Yeah,that's a little advice beyond forages.
Cool. Yeah. So.
All right.
Now, I lost my train of thought,
but I had a reallya lot of really good questions to ask you.
Okay.
(15:06):
What?
What weeds does this not work on?
So with NovaGrazeyou know, we're going to be spray.
And you talked about the nuts and bolts,so just a use rate pattern
we're going to be spraying it24oz fluid ounces per acre.
And that application plus 1% MSO.
(15:27):
We're going to be really goodon several of the the weeds.
I mean, obviously
you can be able to find them on the label,but things we want to avoid
where we can do a better job with
with other things in our portfolio.
I think about things
like dog fennel in her dogfennel as a, as an issue.
(15:48):
We're here in the state of Floridaand it's a huge issue here.
But across the southeastand even into the Mid-Atlantic,
I would imagine somewhat into Missouri,
I'd have to admit I don't know exactly,but yeah, I wouldn't know either.
Yeah.
I'd imagine there's some over thereright.
We're going to avoid that. Yeah.
But, you know, hemp dogbane
(16:10):
we've got
better options for that that late season.
Semi woody plant as it comes
in encroaching,know, some other watch outs.
trying to think there.
Yeah. It's easier for me to think aboutwhich ones I would.
I would recommend it on.
Yeah.
Than the sayone of the big ones in our state
in past years is cockle burrs.
(16:32):
I think that's athat's a pretty common one in Missouri
where, where we,we fight that, pretty common.
And but anyway, it's a in part,
you know, poor grazing management, to some degree for the cockle burrs.
But, I mean,if you're trying to fix a pasture,
(16:53):
this might be a good way to to quicklyget rid of the cockle burrs.
Or does it have what's its effectivenesslike on a cockle burr plant?
Yeah cockle burrswe we do a really good job.
Cut to 24 ounce. Right.
We will do a very good jobof controlling the cockle burrs.
Other things that folks might,come into to issues.
(17:13):
Spiny amaranth,
you know, pigweed, spiny pigweed.
We do a great job there.
I know in Missouri,we we would battle biennial thistles.
Yeah. So biennial thistles were goodthere.
Plumeless Musk Thistle.
So I think about those.
Yeah.
What about the age of the plant?
I mean, how how big can you knowsome of these thistles when they get big?
(17:37):
Yeah, they're really difficult to control.
And the same thing with our cockleburrs.
Sure.
I think with, with the thistles,obviously I want it
general with the herbicideapplication is a good growing plant.
But in best case scenario
I'd like to get that onein the rosette stage before it bolts.
(17:57):
We can still have good, good success
after it bolts, but and a lot of times,unfortunately that's when we go after them
because then we start noticingbecause that's when you see them.
Yeah.When they're started bolting. Yeah, yeah.
If we can get them in the rosette stage,we'll have really good success.
And I mean even
the application window
(18:18):
for, for this as it sits is probably,
you know, laterspring for a lot of our producers
when they startseeing these winter annuals,
and then moving into early summerfor some of these summer annuals,
like the cockleburr.
But, you know, even if we get warm days
in late fall or early winter,
(18:39):
which we can have that in Missouri, even
I know we have it here in the southeast,but we can have that in Missouri.
Well, I, I,we kind of had a late fall as it were.
I mean, we grow grewmost of our stockpile in November
this year, at least at the Forage SystemsResearch Center.
It it was looking really baduntil about, November 1st.
(19:01):
And then the rain came,because we had, dry two months there,
and then the rain came
and then we had a lot of growthbecause it was warm and sunny
for a couple of weeks.
And, and we saw a lot of growth.
And, and then it turned a little cold.
But I mean, that that almost saved us.
Really? Yeah.
But so, yeah, and,
(19:24):
and I guess some of the weedsthat would come on in the fall that.
Yeah, you probably got goodgermination of those too at that time.
Yeah.
And once we get those,you know, young growing plant,
they were going to be really effectiveon, on controlling them.
And then you just you take them outbefore they're ever able to,
to rob nutrients and moisturefor those plants
(19:48):
that were trying to stockpile and startgrazing here in, in the winter time.
Right in the spring.
Yeah.
One thing to note here before we move onto other topics, you mentioned MSO,
not non ionic surfactant,not crop oil concentrate.
It must be MSO.
At least that's what I gatheredfrom your presentation earlier.
(20:10):
Yeah.
And I think that's somethingthat somebody like myself
would make a mistake and be like,oh, says MSO, but I'll use crop oil.
What what happens when you do that?
Yeah.
So the, the reason for the recommendationon, on the MSO is just so we maintain
that consistency across the board from,from a efficacy standpoint.
(20:32):
But you know, with crop oilsdepending on, on temperatures,
you know,we can get into some phyto or some,
some injury potential injuryinto the, the grass.
And with that for Missouri,I think about tall fescue.
So if we go over in the cropoil space temperatures are high enough.
We can have a little bit of damageon that too.
(20:52):
So MSO is is the lane we need to stay infor the adjuvant piece, right.
Yeah. That's good.
And then I had another question.
Or no, this was just a basic statement.
It, it seems like,you know, with a low value, forage like,
or a low value crop, like a foragethat sometimes we forget to scout, or
(21:16):
or we don't pay enough attentionto scouting or walking through fields.
And I think that that's a really importantpiece when it comes to weed management
because, getting the I guess we say itall the time in extension,
putting some boots on the groundand walking through pastures,
even when you're not grazing themor you're not there and,
(21:40):
and instead of just riding by,you can avoid a lot of wrecks,
because, because, you know,
there may be some things lurking in therethat, that
you need to pay attention to.
And, and that's best donethrough, through,
taking inventory of pastures really.
(22:02):
And I think that's important.
And I agree with, good grazers.
And this is somethingwe teach in our grazing school.
You need to be taking a, a pastureinventory anyways
so that you can properly manageyour grazing.
So, I guess if you're,if you're out there listening,
my first recommendation to youis, is get out on your pastures
(22:27):
and take forage inventoryand and check your,
for forage species that you have out thereto see what you have.
And then you can make some betterinformed decisions on management.
And I think that's a really importantpiece as as we talk about
weed management,then you don't have to resort
(22:49):
to some of these train wreck situationswhere it's like,
oh my goodness,I have a four foot tall plant.
Right.
And and then and then somethingthat could have been very useful.
Works have halfway works because,
big plants are harder tocontrol than little plants.
And so I think that that's
(23:09):
really important to state,as we start talking about this.
So that's a really good point.
And I agree that the just a simpleyou can find, a lot of methods,
one that I think back tois just the point step method of
find a point on your on your shoeor your boot, you know,
(23:29):
and you can either do a transect
or just randomly throughout a paddockor pasture.
Say you want to do 100 points across that
across that pasture,you know, you just say every third step,
this point on my boot,that it lands on something.
I'm gonna record that eitheron a pen and pad or just,
(23:51):
from a from your mind standpoint,
is it bare ground,is it grass, is it a broadleaf?
Is it a broadleaf that I want?
You know, then you startgetting that inventory and you start
having a better understandingof what your, your pastures look like.
Right.
Yeah. And,and I think that's really useful.
And you and you'll learn a lotabout your pasture.
(24:13):
You'll learn a ton about what,what is actually there.
Because if youif you go out there and your method is,
every other right foot step,
on my toe, I will write down what,what my, my right toe lands on.
And if half the time you're writing down
dirt,then maybe there's some problems there.
(24:35):
You know, it's not a good thing, is it?
That's not a good thing.
And, Or if half the time you're writing, you're
writing downsome type of unfavorable forage,
and then we can start talking about somethings like better grazing management.
Better nutrient management and,and better weed management.
And I think an integrated approachlike that
(24:58):
will will help producers in a lot of ways.
yep, I agree with you therethat we have to have,
even though I work for a herbicidecompany, it's not the end all be all.
It's not the silver bullet. Yeah.
It's a tool in the toolboxthat when you can pull that lever yeah.
Pull it.
But we've got to have
(25:19):
a lot of other things that we're thinkingabout throughout the growing season
to make it successful. Well, it happened.
It happenedway too often among the crop farmers.
And, and that's why they have so many, resistance issues is because it,
it was just,
you know, like the candy machine,they were pulling that lever all day long.
(25:39):
And, and,
a lot oftimes not considering other options and,
and, and using, reusing the same chemistryover and over and over again.
And it just, it just led to chemistriesthat didn't work anymore.
And I, I don't know about you, but
I don't really want that to happento the forage world.
(26:02):
So yeah. Absolutely not.
No I, I want I want to have effectiveoptions for them for the long term.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I, you know, for, for this industry,for the producers
that we talked toin this conference for sure.
But outside of the space.
So I, I cover the whole eastern U.S.,but spend time on farms
(26:25):
with folks when we do internal trial workor when I'm visiting with our
commercial counterparts who are scatteredacross the US, territory managers,
you know, for, for a lot of those folks,they're doing the right things
or they're out there scoutingand they want to
they want to take advantageof every everything they have.
Yeah. Tools in the toolbox.
(26:45):
Yeah.
Basically they want to take advantageof those at the right time, right rates.
It's going to make sense for themobviously economically.
Yeah.
But they're trying toto get the most out of that acre
to be productiveand in the end be sustainable.
Right. Yeah.
So I, I have sprayed a little bit of,of the NovaGraze.
(27:08):
Last year, I got my paws on a little bit of it
and I sprayed it on a pretty,
I guess, diverse, spot in the field,which is exactly where I needed to be.
Sprayed it. Thisthis place had red clover.
It had, had birdsfoot trefoil.
(27:28):
It had, a number of different grassesand it had white clover
all in the same pasture.
And, I was really sad,but it smoked the bird's foot
trefoil completely dead and gone.
So, so don't try to use it on birds foottrefoil.
Killed the red clover pretty readily.
(27:52):
And it and it actually stuntedthe white clover a little bit.
And I don't think that
the you shouldn't be surprised at that.
It, it kind of reminded meof the type of damage
you would see with Valspar or, an alfalfa.
How how it just kind of sets it back.
You know, a week or two.
(28:14):
It feels like itsets it back a week or two. Yeah.
And and then after that,it just came on strong again.
And, and it was a healthy plant,but I think that's worth noting.
I don't know if you've seen that in other,in other trials,
but I suspect that's pretty common.
Yeah.
And the, the key reason why we say
(28:36):
the focus on this product is for
we're only recommendingon white clover and annual lespedezia
is because we've, we've seen that with,with red clover for sure,
where we just don't want to makethat recommendation because we have too
much cytotoxicity, where we'll take outa lot of those stands.
And, the focus needs to be on whiteclover, birdsfoot treefoil
(28:58):
some of those other legumeswhere we're just not gonna
go down that road
to where, because we want to setexpectations of
this is where this fits of it's whiteclover.
It's annual lespediza.
Let's stay there.
Let's set expectations on thethe setback, like you said,
where white clover is still goingto have to metabolize that herbicide.
(29:21):
So we're going to set it back.
We're going to seea little bit of lodging.
We're going to seea little bit of yellowing.
But the plant comes backjust like you said,
more upright growth.
The blooms will come back.
And the key thing hereis, you know, we're removing that
unwanted weed pressure from that system.
And we're letting the the twobecause, you know, it's
(29:44):
going to probably be in a tall fescuewhite clover system.
We'll get the two speciesthat we want to thrive
or let them thriveafter that herbicide application.
But there is going to be a periodwhere we're going to set it back,
and we need to where we're being proactiveand talking about that
because we want producers to to knowthat's going to happen
(30:07):
and, just realize that it will come back.
Yeah.
And I think that's important.
And don't be alarmed.
And, and I was kind of alarmedwhen I, when I first
went back like,I don't know, five days later
and I started walking around and, and I'mlike, oh, man, this stuff got smoked.
And, and, but anyway.
(30:28):
And then I came back in 2 or 3 weeksand I was like, oh, well, it's it's
still alive.
It's still here, it's still growingand everything is good.
But but, I, I guess that's, that's
an important thingto, to look at another thing
that with that, that I
thought aboutwas you're setting back the white clover
(30:53):
at a time of the year, you know,if you're spraying this, mid-May or,
you know, early May, April or whatever,you're
in the middle of the fescue plant going,
100 miles an hour, growing like crazy,
and you're setting back the white clover.
And that gives the,that gives a tall fescue
(31:17):
a competitive advantageover the white clover.
And, so, so the concernthere is that you're actually diminishing
white clover, not from the chemistry,but from over competition.
But, you mentioned earlier during the meetings
that there are some ways to manage aroundthat so that you don't have that issue.
(31:37):
Yeah.
And that's a really good point,that when we're making these applications
this spring growth that we're counting onfor that tall fescue
and the white clover, that's when it's,you know, it's actively growing to
some of the, the methods for setting backthe grass before application.
So when we go in and graze,
(32:00):
say we know we're ready,we've made a commitment
to making our herbicide applicationin that paddock because we know
we've had traditional weed pressure.
What we'd like to see to minimizenot only the impact on the white clover,
but to have a good responsefrom the white clover.
What we'd like to see is, is go in therewith moderate grazing pressure,
(32:22):
go in there and graze that paddock, removesome of the leaf
area of the tall fescuewhile also removing white clover,
or we're going to removesome of the petioles there.
And that does two things.
We set the the tall fescue backbecause I agree with you.
You know during that timeboth of them are going to be growing.
But tall fescue is metabolizing
(32:45):
that as a grass is metabolizedin that broadleaf weed herbicide.
Yeah. It metabolizesit a little different.
And it's more tolerant of the herbicidethan, clover would be.
Right.
And so it can grow throughthat a lot easier. Yeah.
But if if we're setting it backwith, with grazing pressure
and removing some of that
leaf area of the white clover,we're only going to do a better job
(33:06):
and see a better response of the overallgrowth coming back on the white clover.
So when you say lightly graze,are you talking 50% utilization?
25% utilization.
What's the target there? Yes.
Well we could go moderateI don't think we want to overgrazed
because when we get into that situationthen we'll probably see some damage
(33:28):
to the white clover because you know,when they go when they release
some into that, that paddock or pasture,what's going to be the preference
of the animal, you know, to start outwith it's going to be the white clover.
So then they're goingto move into the fescue.
So if we leave them in there too longI feel like all over graze
some of the legume.
And that might be detrimental longterm to that stand.
(33:51):
So hard number. Yeah.
Probably closer to that 50or maybe a little above.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. Soand well that's our recommendation.
Anyways, what we teachin the grazing school is 50% utilization,
grazing for a day to a week at most.
And then you're moving away from that,that that's, that's
(34:13):
typically our recommendation. So,
I guess if you're in a managementintensive grazing
type scenario, you're, you'reprobably not going to have any issues.
Is what you're saying.
Yeah.
No, I think they would bethey would be fine. Yeah.
They're in a lot of those cases. Yeah.
And so another thing about this herbicidethis is not a residual herbicide.
(34:36):
Correct.
That's correct. It's a non residual.
And when we talk about residual herbicidesyou think of products
that have likewithin our portfolio duracore grazon next.
Both have amino acid in thereand that make up
which is a residual herbicide.
So even after making that applicationwe know we have a window
(34:59):
where we're going to have,control beyond just
what is up and,and has emerged from a weed standpoint.
Right.
They're they're, pre-emergent typeherbicides.
They're, they're,they're they have foliar control.
Right.
But then they have a residual effecton the soil where they're preventing
correct new weeds from growing. Yep.
(35:19):
This being a non residual,we're going to target.
We're going to target 90% weed emergencefor that target weed
we want to go after because we knowwe've got this opportunity.
When we spray.What is up is what's going to get control.
We can't rely on pre-emergent activityafter that.
Right.
What's your what's your,return, to grazing after you spray?
(35:43):
How long do you have to leave animals offbefore you can come back in there
after an application?
So the beauty on this one isthere's no grazing restrictions
for probably 98% of the situations
that producers in Missouri would be in.
But beyond that, across the US.
(36:03):
So the only grazing restriction we have onthis is, is a three day
for lactating dairy cattle, but grazinganimals, beef cattle, zero days.
They can be in the paddockduring during application.
Okay.
Same for non lactating two.
Right, right.
And with this also I suspect
(36:25):
that there is no residualthat goes into the manure or the hay.
Like like with some other chemistriesthat you have,
where, whereif you make hay out of this stuff, you're,
you're not going to worry about feeding itand having that
residual herbicidecarry over on to other fields and whatnot.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
(36:45):
Many folks are familiarwith, the pictogram, just it's just good
stewardshipand management of of the product in the
that the producers are making,whether it be hay or or whatever.
Have you, if they're collecting manure,they're familiar with it,
you know,you just can't put it in sensitive
crop areas with some of our other productswith NovaGraze.
(37:08):
That's not a concern.
Well, is there anything elsethat you can share about it or.
Yes. Well, you know,we talked about it, but we're launching
this is the launch year of of Nova Graze.
So a lot of our range of pasturespecialist
with myselfbeing on the research side as a field
scientist, you know,I get to make sure the product works.
(37:29):
And then we got a great staffon the sell side.
We call them range of pasturespecialists across the US
that are ready to sell this.
They're excited about it.
So if they folkswant to get more information about it,
they can go to Novagraze.us and they canlearn more about Nova Graze in detail.
Maybe if we didn't answerone of the questions they came up with,
(37:51):
as we covered it here today,they can go there.
And also on that website, they can findtheir range of pasture specialists
and that'll connect themwith hopefully with the retailer
that they utilizethat will be carrying this product.
Right.
And in Missouri it would be probably mostpeople would use MFA
(38:11):
and it would probably be David.
Oh, I can't remember his last name.
I think it's David Moore.
Okay, if that sounds right, our,
ready to pasture specialist for Cortevawho has been there.
He's, Okay. Yeah, on the corteva side.
On the other side? Yeah.
He would.
Brandt Mettler is in the state ofMissouri, has his own farm in operation.
(38:36):
So, you know, when he makes
a recommendation, more than likelyhe's done it on his place, right?
And, yeah,he would be the best contact for MFA.
And I know he has a great workingrelationship with MFA
to, to get this product ready.
I know we have state registration there,
so he would be the best one toto reach out to.
And if you can't get in touch with him,
(38:58):
the folks there at that local co-op,they'll know who he is.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and another person to contact is,
Doctor Bradley at the university.
I, I believe he's worked with this,
in a, in a few trialsthat you guys have sponsored.
Yeah.
So within university extension,Doctor Bradley would be a really good,
(39:21):
person, and I can I can link his contactinformation here as well.
And so if you want to talk to him,
that would be a good option too.
And, and in Missouri also,
you know, we have our regional, agronomyspecialists.
Those, those people are really goodat their jobs, and,
(39:45):
and they're usually very up to date onwhat's going on.
So reach out to those people as wellbecause,
because they have a lot of knowledge and,and they've been following this
as closely as anybody.
so, so there's, there's a lot of,there's a lot of resources to reach out
and find people that know a little bitabout this and, and what it can do.
(40:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, the
the producersare have been waiting on this
and they're excited to get it out there.
And they there is a lot of knowledge.
It's already been on farm, been testedthere in the state of Missouri.
So, hopefully we'll see it on a lotof acres that need, need that application.
And we, we get to, to learn more about itas it goes out.
(40:28):
Yeah. All right.
Sounds good.
Well, thank you for coming on. You bet.
and, and, hopefully, I guess we'llprobably see you next year at the meeting.
So. Yeah. Absolutely.If everything goes well.
Yeah, let's hope so.
Anyway, so, we'll be there and, and in North Carolina,
it'll be another good meeting.
Right? All right. Sounds good.
Good deal.Thanks for having me. Thanks, Sam.
(40:55):
Thank you for listeningto the Productive Pastures's Podcast,
brought to you by University of Missouri'sNorthern Missouri Research Extension
and Education Center, Universityof Missouri Extension, and SARE.
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