August 19, 2024 • 49 mins
Thank you for joining me for the very first episode of the Purely His Podcast! On this podcast I help Christian women get "unstuck" from their past trauma, and see God in the confusion. Today I'm interviewing my very own husband, Matt Caswell about our story as a couple.
Don't stay stuck! Let me help you.
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Michelle has authored seven books that are geared towards helping people get unstuck from the root cause of their issues and to learn how to go all in with Jesus.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey, so I'm Michelle Caswell, and I'm the founder of Purely His,
and now the founder of Purely His Podcast.
So I'm super excited to be launching my first episode, and I'm excited because
my first guest is my super awesome husband.
But let me just back it up a little bit and tell you why I wanted to do a podcast.
(00:21):
So first of all, apparently I was doing podcasts before I even knew what a podcast
was, because for three or four
years, every single week, I was doing these episodes on Facebook Live,
doing different topics, and I was interviewing people, and everyone was saying,
you got to start a podcast, Michelle. I'm like, I don't even know what a podcast is.
So anyways, we're officially starting the Purely His podcast,
(00:43):
and my specialty is helping Christian women who have trauma get unstuck from
that trauma and go on to live the life that God has called them to live.
And not only has God gifted me in that area to know exactly where someone's
stuck at and how to get them unstuck in a very short amount of time, but the way He.
Like raised me up in that and trained me wasn't through college.
(01:06):
It wasn't through Bible college. It was through my own history.
So I have a history of trauma from so many different areas, everything from
sexual abuse to physical abuse.
I have abortions in my past, divorces, single parent of two boys.
And, you know, just the list goes on and on and on with the different things
(01:26):
that I've endured to make it where my story is very relatable.
And what I always tell women is that your story is your authority.
And so I'm going to show you how to do that by getting unstuck from your past
history and learning to live a life where your story is actually used to help other people.
And so you'll hear way more about my story and you're going to see lots and
(01:48):
lots of stories or listen to lots of stories of women that are relatable.
So we're going to be raw and real and relatable.
And hopefully you can get some encouragement for yourself and also get at some
tools on how you yourself can get unstuck.
So my first guest is going to be my husband, Matt Caswell.
I don't know if I said my name. My name's Michelle Caswell. Did I say my name? Okay, good.
(02:12):
So we do have a full ministry. And when you have a chance, you can go onto our
website and look at purelyhisministry.com.
And then we're also on social media all over the place from on YouTube,
Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok.
So, and I don't know all the places that you're going to be able to hear this
podcast, but it's going to be on all your favorite ways to listen and watch.
(02:36):
And eventually these will be live and we will have live guests getting unstuck right on the podcast.
So basically you're just going to see behind the scenes what I already do.
Like I do one-on-ones all the time with women through Zoom or in person,
and you're going going to get to see the behind the scenes, someone confessing
(02:56):
their trauma and actually getting healing right on camera.
So it's going to be really awesome. And I'm excited to,
get into that. But in order for you to know me and who I am now,
and just not my history, you need to know my husband and you need to know about
our relationship and how it started and how it's going.
(03:17):
And, you know, when I was like thinking about interviewing you,
I was thinking about all the women that would be watching it.
So I have a feeling that the women who are going to be watching my podcast or
listening to it are going to be divorced.
They're going to be Christians and they're going to have a lot of trauma in
their past wondering how in the world am I going to be able to not only heal
(03:41):
from my trauma, but how am I
going to have a successful relationship after all that I've been through?
So I thought if you and I could share about like what kind of led up to us meeting
and us dating and then like our dating relationship up until getting married
and then kind of like how it's going now.
So I thought if we just had like a behind the scenes conversation about that,
(04:05):
I think it could really help my listeners to get hope and also maybe get some
tools and some encouragement like what could they do to be preparing if they
want to be married to a godly man?
So I was thinking back to when we very first started talking.
So we meet on eHarmony, and we're texting, and we're emailing,
(04:30):
and our very first phone conversation...
I remember thinking, OK, we're going to have this conversation.
And I remember you asking specific questions where you were like wanting to
know more about like basically my testimony, like, hey, what's your story?
Like, you know, why do you have such a heart for these drug addicts?
(04:52):
Why do you why are you clean and sober?
Like, what's the story behind that? So I was like, oh, my gosh,
I'm going to have to tell this guy what my story is. And I had already been
sharing my story at drug rehabs and prisons and churches.
I mean, I would share my story all over the place at that point.
But the night that I was about to talk to you on the phone, I was so nervous.
(05:17):
I was like, oh, my gosh, I am so nervous to be able to tell this guy my story.
And so I remember praying ahead of time. And I was like, God,
I don't know where this is coming from, but I am so scared to tell him my story.
And I think partly it was because you don't have the same past as me.
And so that was a big one. But I also really liked you and I wanted you to like me back.
(05:38):
And I so I remember talking to the Lord and I said, Lord, I don't want to take
it up a notch with this guy and I don't want to take it down a notch with this guy.
I want to be who I am and I want him to fall in love with the real me.
So I have to be honest here.
I got to tell my story, not that I would lie, but I knew I had to share it with
you. And so what I did is I was like, Lord, I'm giving you my heart.
(06:02):
So there's no way this guy can break my heart because it doesn't,
it's not, I'm not giving it to him. I'm giving it to you, God.
So here we go, Lord, I'm giving you my heart and just protect me because most
likely he's going to reject me. There is no way.
There's no way a guy like him could fall for a girl like me.
And so do you remember that conversation? It was really long. It was like an hour long.
(06:26):
If not longer. Yes.
Because I was working like overnight at a women's rehab at the time.
And this chair is squeaking. I don't know if you can hear it,
but it is squeaking every time I move. I don't hear it. Oh, I hear it now.
You got to be careful. You can't laugh. Don't laugh during the podcast.
I can't talk with my hands. People are going to think there's mice in the studio.
(06:50):
There's no mice in the studio that we know of. Yeah, it's good.
But no, I remember that conversation very clearly. And I was nervous too.
Yeah. So for the audience to understand how we began dating,
yes, we met on eHarmony and we were living on opposite ends of the state.
She was living in Portland, Oregon, and I was living in Southern Oregon. And we met on eHarmony.
(07:17):
She shot me a little message about she liked my profile. You like my profile
picture? Well, there was a few things that I could choose from.
And most of them were way too flirtatious.
And I was like, your profile makes me smile.
In other words, you are a cutie. And I like you and what you have to say.
But I had to tone it down. Yeah, you did. You played it safe.
(07:40):
But so she she reached out to me and and.
Told me that her, that my profile made her smile. And that's what initiated
the conversations that we had.
And so probably for what, the first three, four weeks, we were just communicating via email.
If you guys remember what email was, we, we emailed, we emailed quite a bit
(08:02):
and then we, we texted each other, but it was, it was probably like three,
four weeks before we actually spoke
to each other over the phone for the first time.
And I remember that really clearly because I was nervous as well.
As Michelle alluded to, we come from kind of opposite ends of the spectrum.
(08:23):
You know, she has a lot of trauma, had a lot of trauma growing up and even in adulthood.
One of the things that you left out in your intro when you're talking about your trauma is...
I just left so much out. You did, but the important ones I think that it's important
for the audience to know is that, first of all, you're looking at a walking miracle.
(08:46):
This woman is nothing short of a miracle.
What God did in her life is miraculous, but you would never know by looking
at her that she's an ex-drug addict and an alcoholic.
You didn't mention that, I don't think. I think I did. I don't think you did.
This is like take number three or four, so I might have said it in one or two. Take two, I think.
(09:06):
But no, she also has that in her background.
And I don't. I don't come from that past.
And so we come from our pasts are our polar opposites, basically.
Which I shared with you on that first phone call.
(09:27):
So we get on the phone and we're on the phone for an hour and a half, two hours or something.
And basically I gave you my testimony. And I even told you like the big,
like hard, scary stuff to tell you.
Like I wasn't just promiscuous. I was a sex addict.
Like I even told you, you know, the number of guys on that very first phone call.
(09:50):
And I like, you know, for shock value, not just to like shock you,
but to just be like, listen, if you want to run, like run now because this is
what you're dealing with.
So I didn't like I didn't tone it down at all.
And so and you were like very quiet and you were just listening, listening, listening.
So like, what were you thinking as I was like saying all that stuff?
(10:14):
It wasn't easy to hear what you had to say about your past. but what gave me the confidence in, in.
Continuing a relationship with you or at least continuing to get to know you
was that you had so much clean time and healing under your belt you know you would,
(10:39):
you you were clean sober and celibate for what five years i think almost six
years at that time like a couple of months away from celebrating six years clean
sober celibate serving jesus Yeah,
if you had asked me prior to that conversation,
if I would have ever considered dating with with the goal to marry a woman who
(11:04):
had that kind of past, I would have said. said probably not.
I just wouldn't have been interested in dating a woman who had a history of
drug addiction and alcoholism and promiscuity.
I I don't have that in my past, and I don't have...
(11:26):
I've never dated anybody in my past that had that.
But, again, because you had worked really hard for those almost six years,
it gave me a lot of reassurance that you were safe. Because it wasn't just...
Me that I had to consider in moving forward in a relationship with,
(11:50):
I also had children and you had children and we had our respective children
that we had to consider as well.
And so in looking for a prospective wife, I was looking for somebody that would be, you know, a good mom,
not just a good spouse, but, you know, a good mom, somebody who is healthy,
(12:11):
a Christian woman that loved the Lord, that would help me raise my daughters
up to be godly women, that would be a good role model for them.
And so because you had so much clean time and because you were in a healthy position.
I was willing to consider pursuing a relationship with you.
(12:37):
Yeah. And I also remember the other thing that you said, because at the end
of that conversation, I was like holding my breath going like,
oh, my gosh, I thought for sure you were going to be like, no, thanks.
You're really cool. And we really get along. But yeah, no, that's like way too much.
But not only did you say the part about, listen, if that if this would have
(12:57):
been, you know, only six months ago and you had six months clean and sober,
I would have been like, ah, sorry.
But because it's almost six years, that's a whole different story.
So I actually feel like I can trust that that this isn't something you're just doing for a short time.
And then the other thing that you said was, it actually gives me confidence
because of how forthcoming you are.
(13:19):
He was like, you were like, I didn't have to, like, drag it out of you or pull it out of you.
I was able to just get on the phone with you and you were just,
here it all is. You were very vulnerable.
Yeah. And that made you feel like you could trust me more.
Absolutely. You proved your trustworthiness on that phone call.
Because you didn't have to tell me any of that.
(13:40):
No. You could have hidden it like most people probably would have.
Totally. Or save that information for later on down the road after you'd gotten
your hook in, so to speak, using a phishing analogy there.
But no, you didn't wait until the hook was set.
You were very forthright and transparent from the get-go about where you had come from. Yeah.
(14:05):
Well, and then from there, you made plans to come up and see me.
So you were like, hey, I really want to come and see you. I was like,
oh, my gosh. So then it's like, are we going to be attracted in person?
Are we going to actually like each other in person? And so you brought the girls
up to meet me and the boys.
And, you know, we got to hang out that weekend. And so prior to you coming up,
(14:27):
I made sure that you were going to meet people that were going to basically
vet you and make sure that you weren't a weirdo.
Because I'm like, hey, you know, this is my first time dating after all of this
time. And I don't trust myself.
I don't trust that I'm going to choose right.
So I had you meet my mentor and my pastor and my mentor's sister and several
(14:51):
different people. I don't know if you met my dad. Yeah.
Well, because it was two weeks consecutively. So I know that within a two week
period, you met all of the most important people to me.
And I told them all ahead of time, listen, I like this guy.
I'm like going to fall for this guy. But I need you to tell me,
is there anything weird?
Like, like, do you feel like God is in this? Is he godly or is he full of crap?
(15:15):
And so I made sure that I set up people in my life that were helping me make the decision.
I didn't want to just do this on my own.
So that was really important to me. It was also really important that we made
sure we liked each other's kids and, you know, those types of things that we
got to see each other in the other person's like environment.
(15:38):
And so I know that was also really important. What did you think about me having
you meet all those people?
Did you know what I was doing? Yeah, I had an idea what you were doing,
especially when I wanted to attend your church that week and you wouldn't let me.
You did not want me to attend church with you that week. So you recommended another church.
(15:58):
Where your mentor attended. Yeah, at his church. Yeah.
So I knew that I was kind of under the microscope and that you wanted to vet
me and you wanted the people in your life that were important to you to be able
to meet me and give you feedback and report back to you on any red flags that they saw.
(16:21):
Well, I also didn't want you coming to my church and people thinking we were
together because I wasn't sure if I was going to go forward with you.
Because I needed to make sure that everybody in my life was like, yes, this is legit.
I totally forgot all about that. Really? Have you forgiven me for that?
I forgave you about that. Oh, okay. Just last week.
(16:41):
So, because the second time, like that you came, because you came up two weekends in a row.
So the first time you came up, you brought the girls. And the second time you
came up, you just came by yourself and you stayed at a hotel.
Wait, do you stay at a hotel the second time or the first time?
I think it was the first time when I came up with the girls.
Yeah. I stayed in a hotel.
And then the second time it was your landlord that allowed me to stay in their guest room. Oh, yeah.
(17:08):
Which was the women's minister at our church and the elder of our church who were married.
And so they lived downstairs. I lived upstairs. So you stayed downstairs.
And so and with that, I just remember that the second time you came up,
because that's when we like made it official. She'll like, okay,
we're like, we're for sure going to be like girlfriend, boyfriend.
And now that you saw me speak at my church, that was the first time you ever
(17:29):
saw me speak in public. And you didn't even know me that long.
It was only the second time you'd ever like see me in person.
And so what did you think of that? Like, oh, my gosh, here's this girl that
I'm I like just started dating.
I just got to know her and heard about her story and all that.
And then you see me up on stage like the very next weekend that you were there.
(17:52):
I thought it was really cool just from what I knew about your history.
You know, you were not only transparent with me, but you were willing to get
up on stage and be transparent in front of an entire audience of people.
And I know that that took a lot of courage for you to do that.
But my understanding was is that that wasn't the first time that you had done
(18:15):
that, that you prior to meeting me, you were living at a Christian ranch and
that you had become the women's minister there.
And part of your duty at the Christian ranch was to go around and do speaking
engagements and tell people your testimony and share with them about the ranch
that you were living at. Yeah.
(18:36):
So, so backing up about your testimony, because you shared a little bit about mine.
So your testimony is, you know, raised in a two parent home and your parents
had this loving marriage and you grew up going to, to youth group and church
on Sundays and, you know, praying for your meals and all that kind of stuff.
Like you had like a normal, like a TV family, you know, like the only way I
(18:59):
saw stuff like that was on TV. So you actually got to experience that.
And through that lifestyle, you also like...
Have never been drunk you've never been high like you
you weren't promiscuous like I mean you
led a completely different life than me like you
don't have trauma at least like growing up type of trauma you don't have any
(19:23):
of that and really the only thing like from our stories that you that you could
relate to me on is that both of us had had two divorces before meeting each
other and that was really the only thing like from our past that we could actually relate on.
And so then when we meet though, it's like, yeah, our paths were like completely
(19:44):
different, but then we meet and we're talking like, it seemed like we were the same.
Like, it was like, wow, we're in the same place now going the same direction.
Even though we had come from different paths.
And so in that, and you know this, but it's like all through dating you,
because we dated for nine months before we got married, you know,
(20:07):
seven months before we got engaged, nine months before we got married.
And so so with that, I remember like always thinking to myself,
how could a guy like him fall for a girl like me?
Like, I don't understand how a guy like him could fall for a girl like me.
Like, I kept looking at our past
and I just kept thinking that you were going to look down on me for it.
(20:30):
I kept feeling like, oh, my gosh, he's just going going to be like,
this is too much. Like, I can't, I can't go forward with her. This is too much.
I'm never going to be able to get over that. Like, how did you work through that?
Like, as a man with someone with my past, like, yes, that was some of my own
insecurities or some of my own, like rejection issues that were coming up,
(20:51):
you know, during our dating time.
But how did you deal with that? Like, how did you get through that?
Because that is a lot, you know, whether Whether you come from your past or
not, it is a lot to take on someone who has my type of history.
So how did you work through that?
Well, first of all, the way you describe me, it makes me sound like I'm.
(21:11):
An angel or that I'm perfect. And, and I am not, I'm, I am a sinner that that's
been forgiven by, by Christ.
And, you know, I've, I've made my fair share of, of mistakes,
but, but no, we don't, we don't share the same past, you know,
as, as you just told the audience, you know, I've, I've never been intoxicated.
(21:32):
I've never, never used drugs. I came from a two parent Christian home.
It was a very secure home.
I have an older brother that was my best friend growing up.
It was a very healthy environment to grow up in.
And yeah, I was very active in church and youth group and Awanas,
(21:54):
but I'm not perfect by any means.
But to answer your question. But in my eyes, you were, because I was like,
oh my gosh, he's like literally perfect.
And I was It's like, he's white and I'm black.
I mean, it just was so, it felt so opposite.
And I'm not really black for those who are listening by only audio. I'm white.
(22:16):
But I just felt like it was so different.
And I just kept thinking that, yeah, how could a guy like you fall for a girl like me?
So how did you work through that? Because for the most part, you were proud of me.
And you would always give me accolades. I'm so proud of you.
I can't believe you've overcome that. like you would even
like feel bad for me like there were times that you would
(22:38):
even cry over my past when I'm like oh I'm fine
now I'm good but how did you get through it like in some of those other areas
well I I remember you know approaching our dating relationship with the perspective
that you know you weren't just a prospective girlfriend or wife but you were.
(23:00):
My sister in the Lord, first of all, and that helped to give me compassion for
what you had been through.
Just the nature of our dating relationship being long distance,
we really got the opportunity to know each other as friends before we met in person.
(23:22):
We had already become friends over the phone and over email.
And I was impressed with what you had overcome and how healthy you were.
And I remember making the comment to you that I was really surprised that in
spite of all of the trauma from your past, you were one of the healthiest women,
(23:45):
if not the healthiest woman that I had ever met.
And so I was impressed that you had overcome so much and that you were as healthy as you were.
One of like the greatest compliments like ever. Well, that and the Proverbs
31 woman, which we'll talk about later.
(24:05):
But anyways, so part of that, you would hang on that truth.
Like, no, she's so healthy now. So she's clearly not that person.
Because you've also said to me, I literally can't even picture you like that.
I can't even picture that you live that type of life, the party girl lifestyle
and just everything that goes along with it.
I literally cannot picture it. No, that was a surprise to me.
(24:31):
I could not place you in that lifestyle.
In my mind, I was unable to have this mental picture that you were once the
person that you described to me that you were.
It was just, yeah, you're not that person anymore.
(24:51):
And I would have never guessed that you had that in your past if you wouldn't
have told me. Which is what a lot of people say. They'll be like, what? You?
You used to be? I can't even picture that.
Which just goes to show you how much God can actually heal a person if they're
willing to put in the work.
Like I put in so much work in healing before I met you, like a year and a half of drug rehab and,
(25:15):
you know, anger management classes and abuse recovery classes and counseling
and, you know, 12 step and just all the different things that I did to get healing,
you know, forgiving everybody and repenting from all of my sin and just,
yeah, making amends with different people.
I mean, there was so many things that I did in preparation to meet you and become your wife.
(25:38):
Like when I was in rehab, I had three goals, and that was I want to be married
to a Christian man, and I want to be a good mom, and I want to be in full-time ministry.
And so those were my goals. So anytime I had to put in that hard work of forgiving
people or repenting or whatever, it was because I had those goals in mind.
(25:58):
And so meeting you was like, oh, gosh, please let this work out.
Like, please let this go out. And it was crazy because and we both have shared this, that.
At our age, because we met, you know, I was 35, you were 37.
So when we met, it was very hard to find real Christians who wanted to date.
(26:19):
And we define being a real Christian by actually being obedient to God.
And so we don't drink, we don't do drugs, and we don't have sex before marriage.
And so that was something that you and I were both committed to.
And we're praying, please, God, bring someone who is like-minded.
Because like, I don't want to go backwards. I don't want somebody messing up
(26:40):
my testimony, but it's very hard to find a guy who won't have sex before marriage,
especially because I have the past that I have.
And you were finding the same thing with women. Women were just like,
what, what's the big deal?
Like once you cross the line, you know, you cross the line of no return.
How can you get that back?
So was that like surprising to you that I was like-minded in that way?
(27:03):
Yeah, it was. We, we were just talking to one of the men from my most recent
purely his groups last night.
And we had talked about how when you and I were dating before we even knew each other,
I mean, just independently of our own, we had each created the list and it was
a wish list of what we wanted our future spouse to be and all the attributes
(27:28):
that we wanted our future spouse to be.
And for me, it was important to find somebody who, who, you know,
didn't use drugs, didn't drink alcohol, which I thought was impossible.
I just thought, you know, everybody my age drinks alcohol.
Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm a weirdo. You know, I'm, I'm the only one that I know of
(27:49):
in my friend group or, or at work that doesn't drink.
So for me to find a wife that doesn't drink, that might be something I might
have to compromise. But I made that part of my prayer request wish list.
I wanted somebody that was going to be committed to purity before marriage because
(28:09):
I had screwed up in that area before and it didn't work out well.
And I know that God did not bless that relationship because I had sinned sexually.
And so it was really important for me to, if God were to bless me again with
(28:29):
another opportunity to be married, I wanted to do it the right way.
And I wanted to do it with purity. So that was another thing.
Key wish list for lack of better words, you know, something that was really
important to me that, that I put on my prayer request list.
And there were probably 20 or so different attributes that I put on this list.
(28:54):
And I remember thinking to myself, this woman that I'm looking for does not exist.
There's no way that she, that she exists, but it was a mentor of mine that encouraged
me to pray and ask the Lord for all of these attributes,
regardless of how realistic I felt it was, and to test God in that.
(29:18):
And so I did, and I put them on my wish list or prayer request list,
and I prayed for all of these attributes in a wife.
And as I got to know you better, I realized that you were checking all the boxes.
And I was like, really, really, God, you heard me.
(29:38):
I mean, that was like an aha moment for me and my relationship with the Lord,
like an epiphany moment where it's like, oh God, you're funny.
You are funny. You, you do exist and you do hear me and you listen to me and
you, you brought a woman into my life that is checking all of these boxes.
(29:59):
And what I would come to find out later on is that not only did you check every
single one of those boxes, but you checked boxes that I haven't even.
I didn't even draw those boxes, but you had attributes that were important to
me and they were things that I didn't even put on the list.
That's good. Well, you already know that I think you're perfect.
(30:20):
That's why I always say like my super awesome husband, been like,
it's so easy to be married to you now.
But it was like, it was so easy to date you other than my own dumb stuff that
was like coming up because I had healed so much before, like, marrying you.
And so or meeting you, I had healed so much. And I was just thinking, like.
(30:41):
You know, gosh, I'm going to be such a good catch for somebody.
I'm going to make such a good wife because I had unpacked my bags. I was healthy.
And so, but then meeting you and dating you, man, the Lord like brought up,
and you have rejection issues, like, and you still have some insecurities.
You still think like he's too good for you.
And so, you know, the Lord was healing me throughout our relationship.
(31:04):
And one of those things, it's like, you know, because of my past in the sense
of being promiscuous, I was like, okay, I know that I'm pure. I for sure am purely His.
Like, I teach purity. I live purity. I live a life completely devoted to the Lord.
But I was really afraid that that addiction was going to come back when we had sex.
(31:27):
And so, you know, we stayed pure the whole time we were dating,
even though it was extremely hard, especially once you, once you proposed to
me, then it was like, oh my gosh, you know, and I even remember telling you,
like, I called you and was like, I can't see you until we get married. And you're like, what?
I was like, seriously, I cannot see you until we get married.
Like, why? I'm like, because now the thoughts are going crazy.
(31:49):
I can't take my thoughts captive.
I'm totally picturing it. I know it's going to happen. And I,
my body is lit up and I, I cannot not see you until we get married.
And you were like, oh gosh, ha ha.
You know, don't worry. Nothing's going to happen. We've been good so far. I was like, oh really?
Okay. So if I like am totally naked, throwing myself at you,
you're really going to be able to say no. You're like, yes, I will not let that happen.
(32:12):
And so I remember telling you, I remember telling you, I was like,
listen, I'm telling you right now, if, if we have sex, I will not marry you.
If you do that to me, I will not marry you. That will ruin my whole,
like, you know, my testimony is going to ruin how I feel about you.
(32:32):
And so, like, I don't, I can't see you till we get married. And you were like,
I promise you, I will not let that happen.
I was so scared. And so fast forward.
So we get married after nine months of dating, knowing each other,
everything's going awesome.
You know, we're just, we're getting along. We're both healing throughout that
(32:53):
because we had different insecurities coming up and different,
you know, fears coming up.
And and so we're long distance that whole entire time. And then it's the night
of our wedding and it's the true test.
Have I actually healed? Like, am I actually pure?
Like, like, is this, you know, because like from being a sex addict to now I haven't had sex for now.
(33:16):
It had almost been seven years at that point. And so you were celibate. Yes.
And so I was really afraid that night. I was really afraid.
It's just like, you know, a drug addict, which I was like, it's like putting
a line of coke in front of me and going, you know, are you still a drug addict? And so I was scared.
And so I remember. So we're, you know, we're going to the hotel.
(33:37):
I remember being in the hotel lobby and we have our our bags with us.
And I was so freaked out. And you didn't know what I was, you know,
what I was freaking out about. But so we get upstairs and I'm like,
oh, my gosh, like, you know, you know, it's going to be time.
Like, you know, even though we had said we weren't going to have sex at night,
we were going to wait till we got to Hawaii because you wanted to be special.
(34:00):
And let's do it in a place that we've never been in and take the pressure off of the the first night.
And so, you know, we get up there and I'm like, well, I at least have to get
naked. I told you I was a weirdo.
And so you know so I'm up there and I was like oh my gosh I have to drop my
dress in front of him like first time him seeing me naked and so.
(34:21):
I remember that, you know, when my dress like hit the floor,
I still clearly remember it like hitting my my feet because,
you know, I took the dress.
I'm like, bam, hit my feet. And I remember that immediately my hand shot up
to my face and I was standing there with my hands like glued to my eyes and
I'm just standing there cracking up. I could not stop laughing.
(34:46):
And I was just like giggling with my hands to my face. And even though at that
time, you know, I was 36 by then, I literally felt like I was 20 years old and
no man had ever seen me naked besides you.
Like I felt the most innocent, the most pure, like I felt so young.
And so and I was like in that moment, like my hands were like over my eyes and
(35:10):
I just was like, it was like a moment between me and the Lord,
even though it was like your moment. You get you to see everything.
But I remember just like totally just like, oh, my God, I'm healed.
Like because I I knew I was, but I didn't know I was.
I wasn't positive until that literal moment. I was like.
(35:33):
I am for sure like a born again virgin.
Like I am for sure completely 100% pure, washed white as snow.
Like all the stuff I was teaching everybody, all the stuff I kept saying over
myself, like in that moment, I was like, for sure healed.
And it's like ever since then, and you know, for the audience not to say too
(35:57):
much, but yeah, we didn't wait till Hawaii.
So literally the best sex I've ever had That in my whole entire life happened that night.
And, and I so felt like, like the glory of God was like literally in our room.
Like I so felt like, like God's blessing was so full on our marriage in that
(36:19):
night and just everything.
I had never experienced anything like that in my whole entire life.
And it was just like the Lord, like, well done, my good and faithful servants.
Like, because it was really difficult, you know, all those years,
but really difficult in our relationship, especially being so attracted to each
other and so much chemistry, all that stuff.
(36:40):
And so, and we talked about that sense,
like, because of how we handled our dating relationship and because it wasn't
just our dating relationship, but it was the healing we put into our own personal
lives, our own walk with the Lord prior to getting together. other.
And then the, the, the way we handled our dating relationship,
(37:01):
like God's favor has been on our marriage.
So now we've been married for 11 and a half years, like in December,
we'll be married 12 years.
So lots of life has happened, you know, over the last 12 years.
So we won't get into all of that, but it's like, you know, our kids are adults
now, all four of them, you know, we have We have four grandkids now,
(37:25):
and we are like living in what our third house that we've lived together.
We're like fully out of debt. We've been running purely his ministry for, you know, whatever.
10 years now i mean we've done a lot we've
had foster kids together we've had you know
done all these huge events with purely his you've retired
(37:46):
now so you're you're a retired cop now and there's like so many things that
we have like done together but relationally speaking like like how is it like
are you happily married are you gonna twist my arm no no you just say whatever
Whatever you want to say, keep it real.
Very, very happily married. And I want to go back real quickly to our wedding
(38:10):
night, because you said that was like the best sex ever, which is amazing considering
the past that you've come from. That's pretty cool.
I mean, it shows you how much God blessed and honored our commitment to purity
leading up to our wedding night. because, yeah, that night, it was blessed.
(38:35):
And we joke about it. We should, like, high-five, but then it'll be like, bam!
Like, over the top of the mic. Fist bump. Yeah.
Wedding night was a great night. Yeah. And we even joke about it in Michelle's
book here when I was helping her edit it.
So not everyone's going to actually watch this.
Some people are only going to hear this. So, Michelle's book,
(38:57):
one of her first books, is called Pathway to Purely His,
Calling All Workers, and in it, she describes where she comes from and how the
Lord healed her from all of that trauma.
But what I was saying is in this book, she talks a little bit about her wedding night.
And I just want to correct a falsity that you gave our audience in that on our
(39:22):
wedding night, when you dropped your dress, what you heard wasn't your dress
dropping to the floor. It was my chin.
Oh, your jaw. My jaw dropped to the floor when I first saw you naked.
But where were we at? Anyway, I'm distracted. Marriage is great.
You're about to be naked.
Yeah. Yeah. No, marriage is great. We've been, we've been totally blessed.
(39:45):
The, again, we, we set some goals in our marriage to become debt free.
We were able to accomplish that finally about 10 years ago.
We're not wealthy by any means, but we're, we're debt free.
Well, no, we weren't debt free 10 years ago because we still had a mortgage.
(40:06):
We don't have a mortgage now. Did I say 10 years ago? Yeah, two years ago.
Yeah, two years ago we became debt-free finally.
But it's just a testament to how God has honored the way that we honor each
other and our approach to this relationship with purity and making him a priority.
(40:33):
He's blessed us. It's like our marriage is purely his. It is.
Like our marriage belongs to him.
And we're best friends.
Totally. And a lot of marriages, unfortunately, spouses truthfully can't describe
one another as being best friends.
But you're my best friend and I'm your best friend.
(40:56):
And I'm honored that you invited me all the way out here to be your first guest
on your first ever Purely His podcast.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, like our relationship, not only are we like best friends like
that, but we have a very funny relationship.
We laugh like a lot, like a lot.
(41:16):
We're always cracking joke.
We have the same love languages. So it's like for people who are like into like
the five love languages, like, you know, we're both physical touch.
We're both words of affirmation.
Both our servants, like our relationship is really easy and it's not just,
and I always am careful with this because I don't want people to go,
well, it's just because I have the wrong person.
(41:38):
It's like, no, it's not always that. Like, yes, I do believe that you're the
right person. I'm the right person, but it's that we're both healthy.
And so therefore we are able to have a healthy relationship.
So I really feel like people putting in the time to become healthy,
they'll be able to have healthy relationships.
And so if both people in a relationship will unpack their own baggage,
(42:00):
then together, putting God in the center, they can have a healthy,
happy marriage and live happily ever after like we are.
So I don't think it's just about finding the right person. I think it's about
becoming the right person. And that's what Purely His does.
You know, we're always helping people get unstuck from the root causes of whatever
(42:20):
their issues are so that they can, first of all, become Purely His and second
of all, be able to have healthy relationships with their spouses, children,
whatever, whoever it is that they're involved with.
And so are there any last things you would want to say before we wrap up our very first episode?
I just want to brag on you a little bit more if you'll allow me to.
(42:42):
Well, if you do it, then I'm doing it back.
So in addition to what she has shared, what you've shared with your audience
about your background, one of the other things that you left out was that you...
You were kicked out of the house when you were, what, 14?
You became homeless, more or less, but couch surfed after that.
(43:07):
I was staying with friends. You dropped out of high school.
You became a teen mom, and there was a lot of trauma that you were dealing with
at that time that led you to cope with that trauma in unhealthy ways.
But again, just a testament to how good God is and how he restored Michelle to a healthy lifestyle,
(43:30):
despite the fact that she became a teen mom, that she was a high school dropout,
that she got kicked out of her house at 14.
You went on and you wrote not just this book, but you wrote a curriculum for
small groups or individuals.
That's like a step-by-step curriculum to help people get unstuck from the traumas
(43:54):
of their past so that they could become healthy in the same way that the Lord had you become healthy.
Yeah. Would you talk to the audience a little bit more about that book?
Well, well, the purely his group curriculum, there is the how to book.
There is the leader's guide and the workbook.
(44:15):
And they're written for men, women, couples or teens.
So you can have a group where they meet once a week for five months.
And yeah, we have incredible testimonies that have come out of that,
like forever lives have changed and didn't just like I mean,
we started it in in Oregon, but it's gone to quite a few different states.
(44:36):
States now and even a couple of different countries, which is so amazing.
And so who knows what will end up happening with that. But yeah,
it's I basically wrote down.
This is how I healed from all of this. This is how I became the healthiest woman that you've ever met.
And so, and this is how, when I'm like working with people one-on-one or in
small groups, this is, this is what I'm taking them through so they can heal the same way that I did.
(45:00):
So, you know, we believe in becoming purely his and so taking biblical principles
and how do you actually do those things? So we walk people through that.
So, and then, yeah, then there's the second curriculum, which is the purely his vine.
So when somebody goes through this whole group, then they can go on to do the
purely his vine, which is another set of purely his vines. I think I have those
(45:23):
right here too. Conveniently. Yeah.
Interesting. Amazing. Yeah.
This is the purely his vine series, which she also wrote.
And then on the side, you also mentor women one-on-one. Can you,
can you tell the audience a little bit about, so I do the, the one-on-one life coaching.
And usually people come to me in crisis, as you know.
(45:46):
So people are usually like, my marriage is blowing up, or I feel like committing suicide.
I had an abortion that I can't get over. My kid needs to go to rehab, whatever.
I was raped. I never told anybody I need healing from this.
So I usually deal with those types of traumas and people who are in crisis and
(46:06):
I can meet with them over Zoom or FaceTime or the phone or in person if it does work out that way.
But that's all available on our website.
And yeah, and all of our other products are on there, too.
And I just want to say that you are extremely gifted at what you do.
I know that you're not going to brag on yourself, so I'm going to brag on you for you.
(46:28):
I can't tell you the number of times I have heard people compliment you and
tell you that they receive more help in one session from you than they did in
years of therapy with a licensed counselor.
Can you confirm that to be true? How many times have you heard that?
(46:52):
I can't count how many times I've heard that. All the time.
And God has truly gifted you to be able to relate to just about anybody that you talk to.
I mean, any crisis or trauma that somebody is dealing with, you seem to have
firsthand knowledge of it because of what God has brought you through.
(47:15):
Yeah. And you are a miracle. and I'm just incredibly proud of you and I.
Just want to say thank you guys for joining us. Is there anything else that
you want to say before we close up?
I just want to thank you for being super awesome. And I don't just say like
you're my super awesome husband just to be like nice to other people.
(47:38):
Like, you know that I am very happily married to you and I'm very thankful that
you took a chance on me and that you gave me a chance and that you stuck it out with me.
And you're just like so nice to me. Like, you've brought so much healing to
me just with how you respond and how you, like, take care of me.
(47:59):
Like, I had a lot of healing before we ever met. But through our relationship,
it's healed me even more.
And it's helped me to do the things that I've done, like writing the books or
like doing this podcast.
Like, you're literally, like, my greatest fan, my greatest supporter, my best friend.
And I just love you. I am your greatest fan. I know.
(48:19):
But I just really love you and I'm really thankful. and I'm excited for like
our future because we still have new, we have, we just made a new plan the other
day that we're going to like go on like a big vacation.
Like, so we're like still setting goals and we're still like talking about things
we're going to do in the future and how we're going to like,
you know, set up our life.
And so it's like not even over yet. It's cool. Yep. And I just love you.
(48:42):
I love you too. And so, and that's a wrap.
I guess we're wrapping it up. Thank you for joining us. Yep.
And we'll see you next time. So be looking for purely his podcast episode number
two coming up soon. Okay. Thank you. Bye.
Hey, so I'm Michelle Caswell, and I'm the founder of Purely His,
and now the founder of Purely His Podcast.
So I'm super excited to be launching my first episode, and I'm excited because
my first guest is my super awesome husband.
But let me just back it up a little bit and tell you why I wanted to do a podcast.
(00:21):
So first of all, apparently I was doing podcasts before I even knew what a podcast
was, because for three or four
years, every single week, I was doing these episodes on Facebook Live,
doing different topics, and I was interviewing people, and everyone was saying,
you got to start a podcast, Michelle. I'm like, I don't even know what a podcast is.
So anyways, we're officially starting the Purely His podcast,
(00:43):
and my specialty is helping Christian women who have trauma get unstuck from
that trauma and go on to live the life that God has called them to live.
And not only has God gifted me in that area to know exactly where someone's
stuck at and how to get them unstuck in a very short amount of time, but the way He.
Like raised me up in that and trained me wasn't through college.
(01:06):
It wasn't through Bible college. It was through my own history.
So I have a history of trauma from so many different areas, everything from
sexual abuse to physical abuse.
I have abortions in my past, divorces, single parent of two boys.
And, you know, just the list goes on and on and on with the different things
(01:26):
that I've endured to make it where my story is very relatable.
And what I always tell women is that your story is your authority.
And so I'm going to show you how to do that by getting unstuck from your past
history and learning to live a life where your story is actually used to help other people.
And so you'll hear way more about my story and you're going to see lots and
(01:48):
lots of stories or listen to lots of stories of women that are relatable.
So we're going to be raw and real and relatable.
And hopefully you can get some encouragement for yourself and also get at some
tools on how you yourself can get unstuck.
So my first guest is going to be my husband, Matt Caswell.
I don't know if I said my name. My name's Michelle Caswell. Did I say my name? Okay, good.
(02:12):
So we do have a full ministry. And when you have a chance, you can go onto our
website and look at purelyhisministry.com.
And then we're also on social media all over the place from on YouTube,
Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok.
So, and I don't know all the places that you're going to be able to hear this
podcast, but it's going to be on all your favorite ways to listen and watch.
(02:36):
And eventually these will be live and we will have live guests getting unstuck right on the podcast.
So basically you're just going to see behind the scenes what I already do.
Like I do one-on-ones all the time with women through Zoom or in person,
and you're going going to get to see the behind the scenes, someone confessing
(02:56):
their trauma and actually getting healing right on camera.
So it's going to be really awesome. And I'm excited to,
get into that. But in order for you to know me and who I am now,
and just not my history, you need to know my husband and you need to know about
our relationship and how it started and how it's going.
(03:17):
And, you know, when I was like thinking about interviewing you,
I was thinking about all the women that would be watching it.
So I have a feeling that the women who are going to be watching my podcast or
listening to it are going to be divorced.
They're going to be Christians and they're going to have a lot of trauma in
their past wondering how in the world am I going to be able to not only heal
(03:41):
from my trauma, but how am I
going to have a successful relationship after all that I've been through?
So I thought if you and I could share about like what kind of led up to us meeting
and us dating and then like our dating relationship up until getting married
and then kind of like how it's going now.
So I thought if we just had like a behind the scenes conversation about that,
(04:05):
I think it could really help my listeners to get hope and also maybe get some
tools and some encouragement like what could they do to be preparing if they
want to be married to a godly man?
So I was thinking back to when we very first started talking.
So we meet on eHarmony, and we're texting, and we're emailing,
(04:30):
and our very first phone conversation...
I remember thinking, OK, we're going to have this conversation.
And I remember you asking specific questions where you were like wanting to
know more about like basically my testimony, like, hey, what's your story?
Like, you know, why do you have such a heart for these drug addicts?
(04:52):
Why do you why are you clean and sober?
Like, what's the story behind that? So I was like, oh, my gosh,
I'm going to have to tell this guy what my story is. And I had already been
sharing my story at drug rehabs and prisons and churches.
I mean, I would share my story all over the place at that point.
But the night that I was about to talk to you on the phone, I was so nervous.
(05:17):
I was like, oh, my gosh, I am so nervous to be able to tell this guy my story.
And so I remember praying ahead of time. And I was like, God,
I don't know where this is coming from, but I am so scared to tell him my story.
And I think partly it was because you don't have the same past as me.
And so that was a big one. But I also really liked you and I wanted you to like me back.
(05:38):
And I so I remember talking to the Lord and I said, Lord, I don't want to take
it up a notch with this guy and I don't want to take it down a notch with this guy.
I want to be who I am and I want him to fall in love with the real me.
So I have to be honest here.
I got to tell my story, not that I would lie, but I knew I had to share it with
you. And so what I did is I was like, Lord, I'm giving you my heart.
(06:02):
So there's no way this guy can break my heart because it doesn't,
it's not, I'm not giving it to him. I'm giving it to you, God.
So here we go, Lord, I'm giving you my heart and just protect me because most
likely he's going to reject me. There is no way.
There's no way a guy like him could fall for a girl like me.
And so do you remember that conversation? It was really long. It was like an hour long.
(06:26):
If not longer. Yes.
Because I was working like overnight at a women's rehab at the time.
And this chair is squeaking. I don't know if you can hear it,
but it is squeaking every time I move. I don't hear it. Oh, I hear it now.
You got to be careful. You can't laugh. Don't laugh during the podcast.
I can't talk with my hands. People are going to think there's mice in the studio.
(06:50):
There's no mice in the studio that we know of. Yeah, it's good.
But no, I remember that conversation very clearly. And I was nervous too.
Yeah. So for the audience to understand how we began dating,
yes, we met on eHarmony and we were living on opposite ends of the state.
She was living in Portland, Oregon, and I was living in Southern Oregon. And we met on eHarmony.
(07:17):
She shot me a little message about she liked my profile. You like my profile
picture? Well, there was a few things that I could choose from.
And most of them were way too flirtatious.
And I was like, your profile makes me smile.
In other words, you are a cutie. And I like you and what you have to say.
But I had to tone it down. Yeah, you did. You played it safe.
(07:40):
But so she she reached out to me and and.
Told me that her, that my profile made her smile. And that's what initiated
the conversations that we had.
And so probably for what, the first three, four weeks, we were just communicating via email.
If you guys remember what email was, we, we emailed, we emailed quite a bit
(08:02):
and then we, we texted each other, but it was, it was probably like three,
four weeks before we actually spoke
to each other over the phone for the first time.
And I remember that really clearly because I was nervous as well.
As Michelle alluded to, we come from kind of opposite ends of the spectrum.
(08:23):
You know, she has a lot of trauma, had a lot of trauma growing up and even in adulthood.
One of the things that you left out in your intro when you're talking about your trauma is...
I just left so much out. You did, but the important ones I think that it's important
for the audience to know is that, first of all, you're looking at a walking miracle.
(08:46):
This woman is nothing short of a miracle.
What God did in her life is miraculous, but you would never know by looking
at her that she's an ex-drug addict and an alcoholic.
You didn't mention that, I don't think. I think I did. I don't think you did.
This is like take number three or four, so I might have said it in one or two. Take two, I think.
(09:06):
But no, she also has that in her background.
And I don't. I don't come from that past.
And so we come from our pasts are our polar opposites, basically.
Which I shared with you on that first phone call.
(09:27):
So we get on the phone and we're on the phone for an hour and a half, two hours or something.
And basically I gave you my testimony. And I even told you like the big,
like hard, scary stuff to tell you.
Like I wasn't just promiscuous. I was a sex addict.
Like I even told you, you know, the number of guys on that very first phone call.
(09:50):
And I like, you know, for shock value, not just to like shock you,
but to just be like, listen, if you want to run, like run now because this is
what you're dealing with.
So I didn't like I didn't tone it down at all.
And so and you were like very quiet and you were just listening, listening, listening.
So like, what were you thinking as I was like saying all that stuff?
(10:14):
It wasn't easy to hear what you had to say about your past. but what gave me the confidence in, in.
Continuing a relationship with you or at least continuing to get to know you
was that you had so much clean time and healing under your belt you know you would,
(10:39):
you you were clean sober and celibate for what five years i think almost six
years at that time like a couple of months away from celebrating six years clean
sober celibate serving jesus Yeah,
if you had asked me prior to that conversation,
if I would have ever considered dating with with the goal to marry a woman who
(11:04):
had that kind of past, I would have said. said probably not.
I just wouldn't have been interested in dating a woman who had a history of
drug addiction and alcoholism and promiscuity.
I I don't have that in my past, and I don't have...
(11:26):
I've never dated anybody in my past that had that.
But, again, because you had worked really hard for those almost six years,
it gave me a lot of reassurance that you were safe. Because it wasn't just...
Me that I had to consider in moving forward in a relationship with,
(11:50):
I also had children and you had children and we had our respective children
that we had to consider as well.
And so in looking for a prospective wife, I was looking for somebody that would be, you know, a good mom,
not just a good spouse, but, you know, a good mom, somebody who is healthy,
(12:11):
a Christian woman that loved the Lord, that would help me raise my daughters
up to be godly women, that would be a good role model for them.
And so because you had so much clean time and because you were in a healthy position.
I was willing to consider pursuing a relationship with you.
(12:37):
Yeah. And I also remember the other thing that you said, because at the end
of that conversation, I was like holding my breath going like,
oh, my gosh, I thought for sure you were going to be like, no, thanks.
You're really cool. And we really get along. But yeah, no, that's like way too much.
But not only did you say the part about, listen, if that if this would have
(12:57):
been, you know, only six months ago and you had six months clean and sober,
I would have been like, ah, sorry.
But because it's almost six years, that's a whole different story.
So I actually feel like I can trust that that this isn't something you're just doing for a short time.
And then the other thing that you said was, it actually gives me confidence
because of how forthcoming you are.
(13:19):
He was like, you were like, I didn't have to, like, drag it out of you or pull it out of you.
I was able to just get on the phone with you and you were just,
here it all is. You were very vulnerable.
Yeah. And that made you feel like you could trust me more.
Absolutely. You proved your trustworthiness on that phone call.
Because you didn't have to tell me any of that.
(13:40):
No. You could have hidden it like most people probably would have.
Totally. Or save that information for later on down the road after you'd gotten
your hook in, so to speak, using a phishing analogy there.
But no, you didn't wait until the hook was set.
You were very forthright and transparent from the get-go about where you had come from. Yeah.
(14:05):
Well, and then from there, you made plans to come up and see me.
So you were like, hey, I really want to come and see you. I was like,
oh, my gosh. So then it's like, are we going to be attracted in person?
Are we going to actually like each other in person? And so you brought the girls
up to meet me and the boys.
And, you know, we got to hang out that weekend. And so prior to you coming up,
(14:27):
I made sure that you were going to meet people that were going to basically
vet you and make sure that you weren't a weirdo.
Because I'm like, hey, you know, this is my first time dating after all of this
time. And I don't trust myself.
I don't trust that I'm going to choose right.
So I had you meet my mentor and my pastor and my mentor's sister and several
(14:51):
different people. I don't know if you met my dad. Yeah.
Well, because it was two weeks consecutively. So I know that within a two week
period, you met all of the most important people to me.
And I told them all ahead of time, listen, I like this guy.
I'm like going to fall for this guy. But I need you to tell me,
is there anything weird?
Like, like, do you feel like God is in this? Is he godly or is he full of crap?
(15:15):
And so I made sure that I set up people in my life that were helping me make the decision.
I didn't want to just do this on my own.
So that was really important to me. It was also really important that we made
sure we liked each other's kids and, you know, those types of things that we
got to see each other in the other person's like environment.
(15:38):
And so I know that was also really important. What did you think about me having
you meet all those people?
Did you know what I was doing? Yeah, I had an idea what you were doing,
especially when I wanted to attend your church that week and you wouldn't let me.
You did not want me to attend church with you that week. So you recommended another church.
(15:58):
Where your mentor attended. Yeah, at his church. Yeah.
So I knew that I was kind of under the microscope and that you wanted to vet
me and you wanted the people in your life that were important to you to be able
to meet me and give you feedback and report back to you on any red flags that they saw.
(16:21):
Well, I also didn't want you coming to my church and people thinking we were
together because I wasn't sure if I was going to go forward with you.
Because I needed to make sure that everybody in my life was like, yes, this is legit.
I totally forgot all about that. Really? Have you forgiven me for that?
I forgave you about that. Oh, okay. Just last week.
(16:41):
So, because the second time, like that you came, because you came up two weekends in a row.
So the first time you came up, you brought the girls. And the second time you
came up, you just came by yourself and you stayed at a hotel.
Wait, do you stay at a hotel the second time or the first time?
I think it was the first time when I came up with the girls.
Yeah. I stayed in a hotel.
And then the second time it was your landlord that allowed me to stay in their guest room. Oh, yeah.
(17:08):
Which was the women's minister at our church and the elder of our church who were married.
And so they lived downstairs. I lived upstairs. So you stayed downstairs.
And so and with that, I just remember that the second time you came up,
because that's when we like made it official. She'll like, okay,
we're like, we're for sure going to be like girlfriend, boyfriend.
And now that you saw me speak at my church, that was the first time you ever
(17:29):
saw me speak in public. And you didn't even know me that long.
It was only the second time you'd ever like see me in person.
And so what did you think of that? Like, oh, my gosh, here's this girl that
I'm I like just started dating.
I just got to know her and heard about her story and all that.
And then you see me up on stage like the very next weekend that you were there.
(17:52):
I thought it was really cool just from what I knew about your history.
You know, you were not only transparent with me, but you were willing to get
up on stage and be transparent in front of an entire audience of people.
And I know that that took a lot of courage for you to do that.
But my understanding was is that that wasn't the first time that you had done
(18:15):
that, that you prior to meeting me, you were living at a Christian ranch and
that you had become the women's minister there.
And part of your duty at the Christian ranch was to go around and do speaking
engagements and tell people your testimony and share with them about the ranch
that you were living at. Yeah.
(18:36):
So, so backing up about your testimony, because you shared a little bit about mine.
So your testimony is, you know, raised in a two parent home and your parents
had this loving marriage and you grew up going to, to youth group and church
on Sundays and, you know, praying for your meals and all that kind of stuff.
Like you had like a normal, like a TV family, you know, like the only way I
(18:59):
saw stuff like that was on TV. So you actually got to experience that.
And through that lifestyle, you also like...
Have never been drunk you've never been high like you
you weren't promiscuous like I mean you
led a completely different life than me like you
don't have trauma at least like growing up type of trauma you don't have any
(19:23):
of that and really the only thing like from our stories that you that you could
relate to me on is that both of us had had two divorces before meeting each
other and that was really the only thing like from our past that we could actually relate on.
And so then when we meet though, it's like, yeah, our paths were like completely
(19:44):
different, but then we meet and we're talking like, it seemed like we were the same.
Like, it was like, wow, we're in the same place now going the same direction.
Even though we had come from different paths.
And so in that, and you know this, but it's like all through dating you,
because we dated for nine months before we got married, you know,
(20:07):
seven months before we got engaged, nine months before we got married.
And so so with that, I remember like always thinking to myself,
how could a guy like him fall for a girl like me?
Like, I don't understand how a guy like him could fall for a girl like me.
Like, I kept looking at our past
and I just kept thinking that you were going to look down on me for it.
(20:30):
I kept feeling like, oh, my gosh, he's just going going to be like,
this is too much. Like, I can't, I can't go forward with her. This is too much.
I'm never going to be able to get over that. Like, how did you work through that?
Like, as a man with someone with my past, like, yes, that was some of my own
insecurities or some of my own, like rejection issues that were coming up,
(20:51):
you know, during our dating time.
But how did you deal with that? Like, how did you get through that?
Because that is a lot, you know, whether Whether you come from your past or
not, it is a lot to take on someone who has my type of history.
So how did you work through that?
Well, first of all, the way you describe me, it makes me sound like I'm.
(21:11):
An angel or that I'm perfect. And, and I am not, I'm, I am a sinner that that's
been forgiven by, by Christ.
And, you know, I've, I've made my fair share of, of mistakes,
but, but no, we don't, we don't share the same past, you know,
as, as you just told the audience, you know, I've, I've never been intoxicated.
(21:32):
I've never, never used drugs. I came from a two parent Christian home.
It was a very secure home.
I have an older brother that was my best friend growing up.
It was a very healthy environment to grow up in.
And yeah, I was very active in church and youth group and Awanas,
(21:54):
but I'm not perfect by any means.
But to answer your question. But in my eyes, you were, because I was like,
oh my gosh, he's like literally perfect.
And I was It's like, he's white and I'm black.
I mean, it just was so, it felt so opposite.
And I'm not really black for those who are listening by only audio. I'm white.
(22:16):
But I just felt like it was so different.
And I just kept thinking that, yeah, how could a guy like you fall for a girl like me?
So how did you work through that? Because for the most part, you were proud of me.
And you would always give me accolades. I'm so proud of you.
I can't believe you've overcome that. like you would even
like feel bad for me like there were times that you would
(22:38):
even cry over my past when I'm like oh I'm fine
now I'm good but how did you get through it like in some of those other areas
well I I remember you know approaching our dating relationship with the perspective
that you know you weren't just a prospective girlfriend or wife but you were.
(23:00):
My sister in the Lord, first of all, and that helped to give me compassion for
what you had been through.
Just the nature of our dating relationship being long distance,
we really got the opportunity to know each other as friends before we met in person.
(23:22):
We had already become friends over the phone and over email.
And I was impressed with what you had overcome and how healthy you were.
And I remember making the comment to you that I was really surprised that in
spite of all of the trauma from your past, you were one of the healthiest women,
(23:45):
if not the healthiest woman that I had ever met.
And so I was impressed that you had overcome so much and that you were as healthy as you were.
One of like the greatest compliments like ever. Well, that and the Proverbs
31 woman, which we'll talk about later.
(24:05):
But anyways, so part of that, you would hang on that truth.
Like, no, she's so healthy now. So she's clearly not that person.
Because you've also said to me, I literally can't even picture you like that.
I can't even picture that you live that type of life, the party girl lifestyle
and just everything that goes along with it.
I literally cannot picture it. No, that was a surprise to me.
(24:31):
I could not place you in that lifestyle.
In my mind, I was unable to have this mental picture that you were once the
person that you described to me that you were.
It was just, yeah, you're not that person anymore.
(24:51):
And I would have never guessed that you had that in your past if you wouldn't
have told me. Which is what a lot of people say. They'll be like, what? You?
You used to be? I can't even picture that.
Which just goes to show you how much God can actually heal a person if they're
willing to put in the work.
Like I put in so much work in healing before I met you, like a year and a half of drug rehab and,
(25:15):
you know, anger management classes and abuse recovery classes and counseling
and, you know, 12 step and just all the different things that I did to get healing,
you know, forgiving everybody and repenting from all of my sin and just,
yeah, making amends with different people.
I mean, there was so many things that I did in preparation to meet you and become your wife.
(25:38):
Like when I was in rehab, I had three goals, and that was I want to be married
to a Christian man, and I want to be a good mom, and I want to be in full-time ministry.
And so those were my goals. So anytime I had to put in that hard work of forgiving
people or repenting or whatever, it was because I had those goals in mind.
(25:58):
And so meeting you was like, oh, gosh, please let this work out.
Like, please let this go out. And it was crazy because and we both have shared this, that.
At our age, because we met, you know, I was 35, you were 37.
So when we met, it was very hard to find real Christians who wanted to date.
(26:19):
And we define being a real Christian by actually being obedient to God.
And so we don't drink, we don't do drugs, and we don't have sex before marriage.
And so that was something that you and I were both committed to.
And we're praying, please, God, bring someone who is like-minded.
Because like, I don't want to go backwards. I don't want somebody messing up
(26:40):
my testimony, but it's very hard to find a guy who won't have sex before marriage,
especially because I have the past that I have.
And you were finding the same thing with women. Women were just like,
what, what's the big deal?
Like once you cross the line, you know, you cross the line of no return.
How can you get that back?
So was that like surprising to you that I was like-minded in that way?
(27:03):
Yeah, it was. We, we were just talking to one of the men from my most recent
purely his groups last night.
And we had talked about how when you and I were dating before we even knew each other,
I mean, just independently of our own, we had each created the list and it was
a wish list of what we wanted our future spouse to be and all the attributes
(27:28):
that we wanted our future spouse to be.
And for me, it was important to find somebody who, who, you know,
didn't use drugs, didn't drink alcohol, which I thought was impossible.
I just thought, you know, everybody my age drinks alcohol.
Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm a weirdo. You know, I'm, I'm the only one that I know of
(27:49):
in my friend group or, or at work that doesn't drink.
So for me to find a wife that doesn't drink, that might be something I might
have to compromise. But I made that part of my prayer request wish list.
I wanted somebody that was going to be committed to purity before marriage because
(28:09):
I had screwed up in that area before and it didn't work out well.
And I know that God did not bless that relationship because I had sinned sexually.
And so it was really important for me to, if God were to bless me again with
(28:29):
another opportunity to be married, I wanted to do it the right way.
And I wanted to do it with purity. So that was another thing.
Key wish list for lack of better words, you know, something that was really
important to me that, that I put on my prayer request list.
And there were probably 20 or so different attributes that I put on this list.
(28:54):
And I remember thinking to myself, this woman that I'm looking for does not exist.
There's no way that she, that she exists, but it was a mentor of mine that encouraged
me to pray and ask the Lord for all of these attributes,
regardless of how realistic I felt it was, and to test God in that.
(29:18):
And so I did, and I put them on my wish list or prayer request list,
and I prayed for all of these attributes in a wife.
And as I got to know you better, I realized that you were checking all the boxes.
And I was like, really, really, God, you heard me.
(29:38):
I mean, that was like an aha moment for me and my relationship with the Lord,
like an epiphany moment where it's like, oh God, you're funny.
You are funny. You, you do exist and you do hear me and you listen to me and
you, you brought a woman into my life that is checking all of these boxes.
(29:59):
And what I would come to find out later on is that not only did you check every
single one of those boxes, but you checked boxes that I haven't even.
I didn't even draw those boxes, but you had attributes that were important to
me and they were things that I didn't even put on the list.
That's good. Well, you already know that I think you're perfect.
(30:20):
That's why I always say like my super awesome husband, been like,
it's so easy to be married to you now.
But it was like, it was so easy to date you other than my own dumb stuff that
was like coming up because I had healed so much before, like, marrying you.
And so or meeting you, I had healed so much. And I was just thinking, like.
(30:41):
You know, gosh, I'm going to be such a good catch for somebody.
I'm going to make such a good wife because I had unpacked my bags. I was healthy.
And so, but then meeting you and dating you, man, the Lord like brought up,
and you have rejection issues, like, and you still have some insecurities.
You still think like he's too good for you.
And so, you know, the Lord was healing me throughout our relationship.
(31:04):
And one of those things, it's like, you know, because of my past in the sense
of being promiscuous, I was like, okay, I know that I'm pure. I for sure am purely His.
Like, I teach purity. I live purity. I live a life completely devoted to the Lord.
But I was really afraid that that addiction was going to come back when we had sex.
(31:27):
And so, you know, we stayed pure the whole time we were dating,
even though it was extremely hard, especially once you, once you proposed to
me, then it was like, oh my gosh, you know, and I even remember telling you,
like, I called you and was like, I can't see you until we get married. And you're like, what?
I was like, seriously, I cannot see you until we get married.
Like, why? I'm like, because now the thoughts are going crazy.
(31:49):
I can't take my thoughts captive.
I'm totally picturing it. I know it's going to happen. And I,
my body is lit up and I, I cannot not see you until we get married.
And you were like, oh gosh, ha ha.
You know, don't worry. Nothing's going to happen. We've been good so far. I was like, oh really?
Okay. So if I like am totally naked, throwing myself at you,
you're really going to be able to say no. You're like, yes, I will not let that happen.
(32:12):
And so I remember telling you, I remember telling you, I was like,
listen, I'm telling you right now, if, if we have sex, I will not marry you.
If you do that to me, I will not marry you. That will ruin my whole,
like, you know, my testimony is going to ruin how I feel about you.
(32:32):
And so, like, I don't, I can't see you till we get married. And you were like,
I promise you, I will not let that happen.
I was so scared. And so fast forward.
So we get married after nine months of dating, knowing each other,
everything's going awesome.
You know, we're just, we're getting along. We're both healing throughout that
(32:53):
because we had different insecurities coming up and different,
you know, fears coming up.
And and so we're long distance that whole entire time. And then it's the night
of our wedding and it's the true test.
Have I actually healed? Like, am I actually pure?
Like, like, is this, you know, because like from being a sex addict to now I haven't had sex for now.
(33:16):
It had almost been seven years at that point. And so you were celibate. Yes.
And so I was really afraid that night. I was really afraid.
It's just like, you know, a drug addict, which I was like, it's like putting
a line of coke in front of me and going, you know, are you still a drug addict? And so I was scared.
And so I remember. So we're, you know, we're going to the hotel.
(33:37):
I remember being in the hotel lobby and we have our our bags with us.
And I was so freaked out. And you didn't know what I was, you know,
what I was freaking out about. But so we get upstairs and I'm like,
oh, my gosh, like, you know, you know, it's going to be time.
Like, you know, even though we had said we weren't going to have sex at night,
we were going to wait till we got to Hawaii because you wanted to be special.
(34:00):
And let's do it in a place that we've never been in and take the pressure off of the the first night.
And so, you know, we get up there and I'm like, well, I at least have to get
naked. I told you I was a weirdo.
And so you know so I'm up there and I was like oh my gosh I have to drop my
dress in front of him like first time him seeing me naked and so.
(34:21):
I remember that, you know, when my dress like hit the floor,
I still clearly remember it like hitting my my feet because,
you know, I took the dress.
I'm like, bam, hit my feet. And I remember that immediately my hand shot up
to my face and I was standing there with my hands like glued to my eyes and
I'm just standing there cracking up. I could not stop laughing.
(34:46):
And I was just like giggling with my hands to my face. And even though at that
time, you know, I was 36 by then, I literally felt like I was 20 years old and
no man had ever seen me naked besides you.
Like I felt the most innocent, the most pure, like I felt so young.
And so and I was like in that moment, like my hands were like over my eyes and
(35:10):
I just was like, it was like a moment between me and the Lord,
even though it was like your moment. You get you to see everything.
But I remember just like totally just like, oh, my God, I'm healed.
Like because I I knew I was, but I didn't know I was.
I wasn't positive until that literal moment. I was like.
(35:33):
I am for sure like a born again virgin.
Like I am for sure completely 100% pure, washed white as snow.
Like all the stuff I was teaching everybody, all the stuff I kept saying over
myself, like in that moment, I was like, for sure healed.
And it's like ever since then, and you know, for the audience not to say too
(35:57):
much, but yeah, we didn't wait till Hawaii.
So literally the best sex I've ever had That in my whole entire life happened that night.
And, and I so felt like, like the glory of God was like literally in our room.
Like I so felt like, like God's blessing was so full on our marriage in that
(36:19):
night and just everything.
I had never experienced anything like that in my whole entire life.
And it was just like the Lord, like, well done, my good and faithful servants.
Like, because it was really difficult, you know, all those years,
but really difficult in our relationship, especially being so attracted to each
other and so much chemistry, all that stuff.
(36:40):
And so, and we talked about that sense,
like, because of how we handled our dating relationship and because it wasn't
just our dating relationship, but it was the healing we put into our own personal
lives, our own walk with the Lord prior to getting together. other.
And then the, the, the way we handled our dating relationship,
(37:01):
like God's favor has been on our marriage.
So now we've been married for 11 and a half years, like in December,
we'll be married 12 years.
So lots of life has happened, you know, over the last 12 years.
So we won't get into all of that, but it's like, you know, our kids are adults
now, all four of them, you know, we have We have four grandkids now,
(37:25):
and we are like living in what our third house that we've lived together.
We're like fully out of debt. We've been running purely his ministry for, you know, whatever.
10 years now i mean we've done a lot we've
had foster kids together we've had you know
done all these huge events with purely his you've retired
(37:46):
now so you're you're a retired cop now and there's like so many things that
we have like done together but relationally speaking like like how is it like
are you happily married are you gonna twist my arm no no you just say whatever
Whatever you want to say, keep it real.
Very, very happily married. And I want to go back real quickly to our wedding
(38:10):
night, because you said that was like the best sex ever, which is amazing considering
the past that you've come from. That's pretty cool.
I mean, it shows you how much God blessed and honored our commitment to purity
leading up to our wedding night. because, yeah, that night, it was blessed.
(38:35):
And we joke about it. We should, like, high-five, but then it'll be like, bam!
Like, over the top of the mic. Fist bump. Yeah.
Wedding night was a great night. Yeah. And we even joke about it in Michelle's
book here when I was helping her edit it.
So not everyone's going to actually watch this.
Some people are only going to hear this. So, Michelle's book,
(38:57):
one of her first books, is called Pathway to Purely His,
Calling All Workers, and in it, she describes where she comes from and how the
Lord healed her from all of that trauma.
But what I was saying is in this book, she talks a little bit about her wedding night.
And I just want to correct a falsity that you gave our audience in that on our
(39:22):
wedding night, when you dropped your dress, what you heard wasn't your dress
dropping to the floor. It was my chin.
Oh, your jaw. My jaw dropped to the floor when I first saw you naked.
But where were we at? Anyway, I'm distracted. Marriage is great.
You're about to be naked.
Yeah. Yeah. No, marriage is great. We've been, we've been totally blessed.
(39:45):
The, again, we, we set some goals in our marriage to become debt free.
We were able to accomplish that finally about 10 years ago.
We're not wealthy by any means, but we're, we're debt free.
Well, no, we weren't debt free 10 years ago because we still had a mortgage.
(40:06):
We don't have a mortgage now. Did I say 10 years ago? Yeah, two years ago.
Yeah, two years ago we became debt-free finally.
But it's just a testament to how God has honored the way that we honor each
other and our approach to this relationship with purity and making him a priority.
(40:33):
He's blessed us. It's like our marriage is purely his. It is.
Like our marriage belongs to him.
And we're best friends.
Totally. And a lot of marriages, unfortunately, spouses truthfully can't describe
one another as being best friends.
But you're my best friend and I'm your best friend.
(40:56):
And I'm honored that you invited me all the way out here to be your first guest
on your first ever Purely His podcast.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, like our relationship, not only are we like best friends like
that, but we have a very funny relationship.
We laugh like a lot, like a lot.
(41:16):
We're always cracking joke.
We have the same love languages. So it's like for people who are like into like
the five love languages, like, you know, we're both physical touch.
We're both words of affirmation.
Both our servants, like our relationship is really easy and it's not just,
and I always am careful with this because I don't want people to go,
well, it's just because I have the wrong person.
(41:38):
It's like, no, it's not always that. Like, yes, I do believe that you're the
right person. I'm the right person, but it's that we're both healthy.
And so therefore we are able to have a healthy relationship.
So I really feel like people putting in the time to become healthy,
they'll be able to have healthy relationships.
And so if both people in a relationship will unpack their own baggage,
(42:00):
then together, putting God in the center, they can have a healthy,
happy marriage and live happily ever after like we are.
So I don't think it's just about finding the right person. I think it's about
becoming the right person. And that's what Purely His does.
You know, we're always helping people get unstuck from the root causes of whatever
(42:20):
their issues are so that they can, first of all, become Purely His and second
of all, be able to have healthy relationships with their spouses, children,
whatever, whoever it is that they're involved with.
And so are there any last things you would want to say before we wrap up our very first episode?
I just want to brag on you a little bit more if you'll allow me to.
(42:42):
Well, if you do it, then I'm doing it back.
So in addition to what she has shared, what you've shared with your audience
about your background, one of the other things that you left out was that you...
You were kicked out of the house when you were, what, 14?
You became homeless, more or less, but couch surfed after that.
(43:07):
I was staying with friends. You dropped out of high school.
You became a teen mom, and there was a lot of trauma that you were dealing with
at that time that led you to cope with that trauma in unhealthy ways.
But again, just a testament to how good God is and how he restored Michelle to a healthy lifestyle,
(43:30):
despite the fact that she became a teen mom, that she was a high school dropout,
that she got kicked out of her house at 14.
You went on and you wrote not just this book, but you wrote a curriculum for
small groups or individuals.
That's like a step-by-step curriculum to help people get unstuck from the traumas
(43:54):
of their past so that they could become healthy in the same way that the Lord had you become healthy.
Yeah. Would you talk to the audience a little bit more about that book?
Well, well, the purely his group curriculum, there is the how to book.
There is the leader's guide and the workbook.
(44:15):
And they're written for men, women, couples or teens.
So you can have a group where they meet once a week for five months.
And yeah, we have incredible testimonies that have come out of that,
like forever lives have changed and didn't just like I mean,
we started it in in Oregon, but it's gone to quite a few different states.
(44:36):
States now and even a couple of different countries, which is so amazing.
And so who knows what will end up happening with that. But yeah,
it's I basically wrote down.
This is how I healed from all of this. This is how I became the healthiest woman that you've ever met.
And so, and this is how, when I'm like working with people one-on-one or in
small groups, this is, this is what I'm taking them through so they can heal the same way that I did.
(45:00):
So, you know, we believe in becoming purely his and so taking biblical principles
and how do you actually do those things? So we walk people through that.
So, and then, yeah, then there's the second curriculum, which is the purely his vine.
So when somebody goes through this whole group, then they can go on to do the
purely his vine, which is another set of purely his vines. I think I have those
(45:23):
right here too. Conveniently. Yeah.
Interesting. Amazing. Yeah.
This is the purely his vine series, which she also wrote.
And then on the side, you also mentor women one-on-one. Can you,
can you tell the audience a little bit about, so I do the, the one-on-one life coaching.
And usually people come to me in crisis, as you know.
(45:46):
So people are usually like, my marriage is blowing up, or I feel like committing suicide.
I had an abortion that I can't get over. My kid needs to go to rehab, whatever.
I was raped. I never told anybody I need healing from this.
So I usually deal with those types of traumas and people who are in crisis and
(46:06):
I can meet with them over Zoom or FaceTime or the phone or in person if it does work out that way.
But that's all available on our website.
And yeah, and all of our other products are on there, too.
And I just want to say that you are extremely gifted at what you do.
I know that you're not going to brag on yourself, so I'm going to brag on you for you.
(46:28):
I can't tell you the number of times I have heard people compliment you and
tell you that they receive more help in one session from you than they did in
years of therapy with a licensed counselor.
Can you confirm that to be true? How many times have you heard that?
(46:52):
I can't count how many times I've heard that. All the time.
And God has truly gifted you to be able to relate to just about anybody that you talk to.
I mean, any crisis or trauma that somebody is dealing with, you seem to have
firsthand knowledge of it because of what God has brought you through.
(47:15):
Yeah. And you are a miracle. and I'm just incredibly proud of you and I.
Just want to say thank you guys for joining us. Is there anything else that
you want to say before we close up?
I just want to thank you for being super awesome. And I don't just say like
you're my super awesome husband just to be like nice to other people.
(47:38):
Like, you know that I am very happily married to you and I'm very thankful that
you took a chance on me and that you gave me a chance and that you stuck it out with me.
And you're just like so nice to me. Like, you've brought so much healing to
me just with how you respond and how you, like, take care of me.
(47:59):
Like, I had a lot of healing before we ever met. But through our relationship,
it's healed me even more.
And it's helped me to do the things that I've done, like writing the books or
like doing this podcast.
Like, you're literally, like, my greatest fan, my greatest supporter, my best friend.
And I just love you. I am your greatest fan. I know.
(48:19):
But I just really love you and I'm really thankful. and I'm excited for like
our future because we still have new, we have, we just made a new plan the other
day that we're going to like go on like a big vacation.
Like, so we're like still setting goals and we're still like talking about things
we're going to do in the future and how we're going to like,
you know, set up our life.
And so it's like not even over yet. It's cool. Yep. And I just love you.
(48:42):
I love you too. And so, and that's a wrap.
I guess we're wrapping it up. Thank you for joining us. Yep.
And we'll see you next time. So be looking for purely his podcast episode number
two coming up soon. Okay. Thank you. Bye.
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