September 25, 2024 • 43 mins
How does one transform trauma into possibility? Trained dancer and multidisciplinary artist Kayla Farrish explores police brutality and death afflicting Black communities in America. Through movement research, she finds a radical imagination that powers the African American struggle to do more than survive from enslavement in the colonial era to systemic oppression by modern institutions. Black people have wrought hope and art from trauma. Inspired by this, Farrish lovingly reclaims the Black body’s histories and its representation in contemporary dance collaborations, film, and sound score. She offers performers strategies for challenging traditional dance industry norms.
Kayla Farrish creates captivating works on stage and film that combine dance theater performance, storytelling, and sound score. She is based in New York City and was named “Break Out Star of 2021” by the New York Times. A recent alumna of the School of Dance at The University of Arizona, she has emerged as an artist to watch in the years ahead.
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(00:00):
Race remix. Mix.
Welcome to Race Remix,
where we explore the intersectionsof racial justice and the arts.
We talk with artists, educatorsand thought leaders from around the world.
Building knowledgeone conversation at a time.
This podcast is producedby the Racial Justice Studio,
(00:21):
an initiative of ArizonaArts at the University of Arizona.
Welcome to Race Remix.
I'm your host, Amy Kraehe
My co-host today is Duane Cyrus,the director of the school Dance
at the University of Arizona.
Hi there, Cyrus. Hi, Amy.
Thank you for having me.
I'm here with Kayla Farrish,a multifaceted artist
(00:43):
whose work includesprojects and collaborations
that combine filmmaking, storytelling,dance, theater, performance and sounds.
Score. Welcome, Kayla.
Thank you.
I'm really excited to be here.
I think this is such an important piece
(01:04):
that can be really inspiringto people having this podcast.
But we're thrilled that you're here,and I want to start by
letting our listeners knowthat you are an amazingly accomplished
choreographer and performer,multimedia artist.
Can you just give us a little bit ofyour story about when you started dancing?
(01:25):
Sure.
I started dancing.
I think of my inspiration as mymy father actually.
He danced recreationally after college
and was my first danceteacher with my sister
and I and I remember just always
(01:47):
having music and dancein the family and expression.
And I remember at a young age, like,just always wanting to create.
And that would be you making the dances.
I would be writing stories.
I would be imagining myselfin music videos
all of the above.
(02:07):
Yeah.
And that just kept building, but it feltlike a really strong creative force,
including even with, like, danceforms themselves, like mixing
modern ballet, jazz,
improvization what, whateverI can come across.
I was like, I was just fascinated.
So did you take dance classesas a young child?
(02:27):
Yes, I did.
I well, I took dance classesboth at studio, at public school.
I'm from North Carolina,so there's the American Dance
Festival there,which happens every summer.
What's really exciting is likethere's a lot of different scenes.
So working with my dad or dancingwith my dad and I'm thinking about working
(02:49):
at my dancing at the church
or here is like liturgical praise dance,and then at the dance studio here,
like these different specific forms
jazz, dance, modern dance, ballet.
And then like the festivalor these public schools,
I oddly got a lot of postmoderndance and partnering.
(03:09):
They never went in one direction.
It's great to hear you speak abouthow movement was a part of your youth,
like you're growing up,and then you turn that into a career.
That's exciting.
So what I also understandabout your dancing
and the work that you make is that you
(03:29):
your work deals with themes of raceand racialization in America.
But for some newcomers,as well as longtime
dance patrons, they might ask, Well,what's race got to do with it?
What's the connectionbetween dance and race for you?
Yeah,
quite honestly, I knew I could.
(03:50):
We're talking about from these roots.
I knew I wanted to choreograph and create.
And I think what surprised mefinding my voice
was how much I was drawnto seeing my identity
once in these real life.
With.
Yeah, with in real life situationslike within living,
(04:12):
I was like, it became really importantfor me to see my identity.
And then also it surprised me
how the work became socio socio political.
And in saying that, I wanted
just to be able to give visibility,
give experience,
(04:35):
give truth,
and to seeing my identityand the folks around me
who are my collaborators,who are my family.
We're such a visual culture, right?
These days we are really visualin terms of social media
films and television video.
And it's interestingthat as a moving artists,
(04:57):
like a three dimensional visual artist,is what, you know, we could say,
you know, dealing with time and movement.
You are also workingwith film and photography,
and I think that that's really interestingbecause somehow that seems to hearken
back to your youthand the imagery of your youth.
And then when you say identity,
(05:19):
what do you mean
by identity?
yeah, and I'll break it down. I think
so. Identity.
I think there is like a visual aspect,
like what you're saying There's,like important stuff, like visibility.
And then I also what I also feel
really importantis feeling and experiencing.
(05:40):
And that like having creating spacesfor both that visibility
and for seeing likewhat our true experiences are.
Not being hidden by media,not being hidden
by rewritten histories,not being suppressed.
Like if we really got to sharehow this world
(06:02):
makes us feel or what we would hope for,
or just like a different fantasy
or imagination of our lives,what could that look like?
I'm like, interestedin creating those spaces,
and I think it does build empathy
and it builds an understanding of thingsthat are unseen.
(06:25):
I'm hearing from youlike not only the experience of seeing,
but the experience of being seenand creating spaces as an artist, I think.
Does our societyreally think about those things
when they're thinking about art?
You know what I mean?
And so so here you arecreating these works and telling stories
(06:48):
connected to race and identity,but it's not.
So it doesn't sound like you'reonly saying, See my story and that's it.
And then you leave us.
It sounds like you're creating a spacefor people to consider how they are seeing
and how they're being.
See, that's what I'm trying to get across.
Yeah, And I wanted to add on to
(07:10):
for what I'm doing with my identity,which I think is expansive.
I identify as a black woman from the South
and knowing also that my father's familyhistory is from sharecroppers
and also that our lineage is cut offand lost within America.
So knowing that enslavement built
is a major part of where we are today.
(07:33):
For me, the erasure, it's like the erasure
is really harsh reduction of
like how I am perceived or what
I can do, different power dynamics
that I'm always going up against, even
when I don't want to.
(07:53):
The film
photography sounds or writing
movement symbols like performanceand film can provide
ways like experience, experiencethese stories together.
You know, you're using different formsto create imagery and tell stories.
So that's so how is it different then?
(08:15):
So you're doing live dance.
You make live dance performances,
but then you also deal with cinema
or photography or even sound scores.
How do those things,how are they different?
How like what impactdo you feel those have for the audience?
(08:40):
When I create,
I'm often thinking about wordslike the starting content or
yeah, starting question, prompt content,where I really want to dig in farther
and then I'll visualize it
eitherlike sometimes how I visualize it is like,
it needs to be this like movementexpression.
(09:01):
I, I should say film.
I was really interested in film and musicbecause of people's
abilityto, like, everyone listens to music.
They are, they watch moviesand their ability to be transported
and their willingness to like, go withthese like characters and these stories.
And I wanted to feelthat in live performance
(09:24):
as well and also theater.
And I do think that happens with dance.
But sometimes, you know,
like with our internal monologueor internal story, maybe they don't always
get to go on that ride.
So I was just trying to think abouthow these things speak
and what they can do for the audience is
I feel like the
(09:45):
film and imagerywe get to like see the person
and that was so incredible to actually beseen how I was hoping to be seen. Yes.
Yeah, it's interesting.
Somebody said to methat dancing is a moving of souls,
and when I think about that,it is also visual, but it's audible.
(10:08):
And I love photography as well.
So I thought, Well, what's the differencebetween photography and dance?
I feel like photography capturesone moment
that maybe is not even the real moment,right?
Like you never see life in oneframe at a time.
But dance, it's moving.
And something about that is maybe more.
(10:31):
I won't get corny,but more spiritual than you know.
Yeah. And what youhow were you speaking through?
What sensory device are you speaking to?
People. So musicspeaks to us through our ears.
Photography, visual art through our eyes.
But dance, it's maybe more total.
I don't know.
(10:52):
It's like they do different things.
So sometimes I use danceor actually as layering.
I'm like, realizing how much I'mjust trying to plug into meaning.
So kind of like a mixtapewhere it'll be like,
here's this like current sound,but also I'm sampling.
From 50 years.
Ago, and also I'm going to pull this textfrom like James Baldwin took a Gaga
(11:14):
and the and you can suddenly seethe references and the ties to each other
that maybe if I was listening to justthis one part, I wouldn't have understood.
And so, yeah,I'm interested in the layering of meaning.
So I'm like, okay,maybe watching this person,
I feel spiritually connected to you, butI don't understand like how he got here.
I feel like I can pull like through thesedifferent mediums
(11:37):
parts of the past and into the future.
Amy I want, I want to say something aboutbecause I love
how you talking about layering,but blackness is not monolithic
and it is multilayered.
It's all kinds ofblackness is in our world
and somehow in our society.
(12:00):
I know you were alsoa student of Africana studies
while you wereat the University of Arizona.
But the point I'm getting to
is blacknesslives in our society as a spectacle.
Often it is perceived as it's it's seen.
We see from minstrelsyto sports, the bodies
(12:22):
that we see in sports to social media now.
And I often feel like that is neverthe truth of blackness.
It is a monolithic, you know, homogenized
representation of blacknessthat we didn't create.
But then there are these people,because I just heard you say
James Baldwinor you referenced James Baldwin earlier.
(12:46):
And I think about these people that youthat may speak truths to you.
Can you talk a little bitabout those people and why
they speak truth to you?
Yeah, we are not a monolith. So true.
I'm really
drawn to James Baldwin,specifically the fire.
Next time.
(13:08):
It felt like the first timeI could read someone,
like articulating how I.
I feel about you.
And again,not a monolithic declarative statement,
but like, I guess how I felt about historyinto my current time.
I didn't like it.
Just hard to be able to articulate
the grief, the rage,
(13:30):
like violence, oppression, navigating,
deciding to push forwardany way of rebellion.
I just I felt like he could
speak to speak to that throughout time
I was really drawn to also about sex,killing, rage and racism
just felt like it madeuse of our feelings were words like,
(13:53):
you're not allowed to feel angry,you're not allowed to.
Yeah, don't stay in grief too long.
Like if I wasn't, you know,where I was raised in the church.
Like, I would just like, you know,this is another way to deal with that.
Just like,give it away and try to just be joyful.
Like, yeah, I guess coming back to earlierworld were the spaces where
I can process and feel and how can thesethese feelings actually be like arrows?
(14:18):
Like I can, I can use them to make change.
As you're responding to Cyrus's
questions,you're you're speaking with your body.
I don't know if you know that,
but you are very much speakingwith your body and pulling the bow back.
But you alsouse language much like bell hooks and.
(14:40):
James Baldwin.
So will you read this line of a poem
that you wrote?
I've got Swing Low,
Sweet Chariot on my mind and ancestorsbreaking their backs,
creating magic out of hopelessness,turning soil into a nation.
When did you compose these words?
(15:04):
So actually,I was putting together these my
some of my initial pieces,Black Body Sonata, which is a duet
that talks about police brutality,but also talks about what it is like.
Navigate.
Yeah, different mannerismsof having to navigate and survive,
I should say mannerisms, behaviorsas black folks in predominantly
(15:25):
white spaces and like how likehow we navigate and manage that
and then getting to see our real responses
to the constant deaths
and then with Grit from Gracewas originally a solo
that I did that I just want to see myselfat my flawless power.
I was like, What does that feel like?
(15:47):
And power became
many definitions,and then it became a quartet
that I wanted to open that upto women and feminism
and feeling empowered in different ways.
And I put together this work,the New Frontier,
which was both of my first,like massive film.
(16:07):
Like I'm laughing because it was
everything that could go wrong went wrong,but that's okay.
There was there was art and there waslearning how to produce that.
And then
and then became also a live performancework at dance based in New York.
And they actually just wanted itto be a multi piece work.
But I wanted to imagine what
(16:28):
if indigenous folks, bipoc folkshistorically excluded folks
got to find this frontier of America,which did happen.
And I was just trying to imagine,like what what would
what would this look like with lesswith without the exploitation,
without so many thingsthat you make me think of.
Octavia Butler, for some reason,just how you're imagining
(16:51):
other other futures or other pathsactually could be also interesting.
And something about thatme made me think of Octavia Butler.
Yeah,that's actually that's when I was making
this work and my last two
Masters fiction and Put Away the Fire,which is my next work.
(17:12):
I was recommended to read Magical realism.
There's mostlyreading like these historical books
and poetry of Audre Lorde as well.
I didn't say that earlier,
but you're like,There's something about magical realism
both in Latin America
and and like Octavia Butlerand Toni Morrison.
(17:36):
Yeah, they kept giving you.
Yeah, I really am interestedin radical imagination
and this.
I love this poem.
What The end of this total work
we've like navigated through this quartetto do
and find it like playingwith different ideas of power and history.
And at the end there's
(17:59):
one person becomes the reporterand they're just telling us
all the news events.
But it's sort of like just like,what headlines
have happened under the Trumpadministration that could be both
imaginative or, or real?
And what was scary,as we were saying, these headlines,
even if they were imaginative,they weren't very far from the truth.
(18:24):
So it was like this, like high impact
and also trying againto like, play into the erasure
and things that have been happeningand like create in satire.
So it's just like this reporter'sridiculously cracking
and then this person comes out at the endand is reading this poem,
which I was inspiredby James Baldwin, actually, and,
(18:44):
and then finding my own words toI mean, it's it's pulling a lot.
Swing low, sweet chariot.
It's swing low, sweet.
That's the song that's been there forever.
And then just imagininglike turning the trauma
that enslaved folks have livedand breaking their backs, creating magic
out of hopelessness,turning well into an Asian like
(19:06):
such a powerful
image, while also saying,we're still here.
Like, you can't you can't change this.
You can't alter it.
I mean, this is what happened,but we're still here.
So, yeah.
Sweet home
screen Chevy had come inside
(19:27):
to carry me home saying,
sweet and me and come to carry me home.
You've said, and I quote,
I aim to hold a mirror to the societywe form and participate in.
What is it that you are doing as a dancer
(19:50):
to create that mirror?
I was combining at first,
like really images of humanism,
thingsthat might feel like the feel very honest
and are vulnerable to having like
human movement,human gestures, relationship
(20:11):
between people, even building up the space
and set in a certain wayof like places that we recognize.
So you're using like the, the,the set, the physical
props and placement. Of.
Physical things that you chooseto bring onto the stage.
Yeah, like a chair,a certain light fixture,
(20:31):
like the things that I'm like,these are already in our daily lives
I like I take out that some of thatlike imaginative work.
And so you can see what
I'm engaging with or see
can like the photographer in the cinema,like where am I in, who is this person?
And physicallyI think there's also a part with texts
(20:54):
as a text speaking dialogs monologue.
That's yeah, I feel like speakinghas been helpful, helpful tool,
but also I've always been interestedalso in sharing what I'm feeling on stage.
So speaking is another way to know,
to give more contextand then movement wise,
(21:14):
being like really deep in improvizationor playing creativity,
I'm really curious aboutlike how those like what
do those feelingslike what does anger look like
and like actually seeinghow does that move through the body?
And now what's thatin relationship to someone else?
What is like grief? I,
(21:35):
I had the pleasure of watching you,
Kayla, set up the audition
for the students that are going to performa work this semester.
And that was really interestingin terms of this question
that Amy asksabout holding up a mirror to society.
You started whatI I'll try and describe it when I saw
(22:00):
you had all the dancers in the space
and you prompted themthrough improvization
that helped them to engagewith each other.
It wasn't about structured linesand everyone trying to do the same move
with that concept of perfection.
(22:20):
What looked like a mirror to me
was the fact that they were making choicesabout how they were going to
be in the space and they were respondingto the other people in the space.
And when we look at each other,we are reflections of each other.
That's a mirror, right?
And so it seemed likethat was the doorway that you brought.
Our school of dance students throughwas a doorway of reflection or a mirror.
(22:44):
That's what. I saw, an intention.
It's like, what is your intentionwith then?
Whatever movementthat you're doing, like you can see it.
And another wayI'm trying to show this mirror
reflection is to show, okay,what is what is our current experience?
It's like one way,like having space to exist and be
(23:09):
and be seen.
The radical imaginationwas another way of like,
I'm going to try on a role that doesn'tbelong to me or I didn't get to inherit,
or I'm going to do what I'm notsupposed to do, I'm going to erupt.
I to me, it feels like liberationor transformation.
You get spaces to experiencesomething else.
(23:29):
And and in discussing
like these experiences,
these current experiencesor future experiences and history,
that ends up being a reflectionof what's what's happening.
What are you working on right now?
Wow. I feel likeI have to describe everything.
(23:50):
I'm working on a new
full length work calledPut Away the Fired Year,
and it's my first venture into combining
my love for cinema and live performance.
And what I mean bythat is a breaking down.
These characters are archetypes.
(24:12):
In the 1936 years,there are like the archetypes of Mammy
archetypes, some likestill some cocooning, meaning I'm
looking at the reductionof bipoc characters.
Sometimes they're placement like servants.
The entertainer just reduced archetypes,
and in researching and reading about them,
(24:34):
they literally are written into the storywith full narratives.
The writers like, like,I'll get Bojangles into here
for this like dance scene,but without like outside of that,
they don't really exist.
So do you see those archetypes?
Do you see in any way those archetypesechoing through time to this day?
(24:55):
Like, what do you think about what hashappened to those archetypes?
What That's a great question.
I mean, I saw the reflection
or I see the you know,I see the reflection of history
where history is fragmented.
(25:17):
I'll speak as as for like
what I feel is my history asan African-American feels very fragmented.
It feels like,
you know, whatever
I can gather and piece together,there's missing holes in that lineage.
So when I look see
characters with missing storylines,
where do they goafter like the entertainer maybe
now is like the spectacleof like an athlete or B, the singer,
(25:42):
B, the singer.
But we don't want to like hereyou talk about politics, You know,
you don't want that.
Yeah, I wonder how that echoes.
It's so interesting that musically, youyou shared information with us earlier.
You mentioned Nina Simone and Sam Cooke.
I'm like, wow, those two really?
And I just think about so much whatNina Simone,
(26:03):
the greatNina Simone, went through in her life.
And she had so much to say.
And I'm I wonder what your thoughts areabout what's left.
You know, like what is leftwhen history discusses Nina Simone?
Is it her message or is it her trauma?
I see and feel her message.
(26:25):
I can like it feels spiritualthrough them,
like the music that I likeand it moves me.
And I think that it feels like itechoes forever.
I feel sad about her trauma.
Yeah, I just makes me sad thatsuch an incredible artist,
such an incredible artist and humanand they're giving so much.
(26:47):
Like, I'm like, Yeah, likethey don't deserve a No one does those.
Like, they don't deserve that for.
Ever contributed to our society.
Yes. Our culture.
And so then it gives methe thought you've already touched on it,
but as a black woman,I think of our musical artists.
And can I say Whitney, right now,
(27:10):
and you know, the trauma traumas,Billie Holiday,
you know, if you're talkingabout the thirties through the sixties,
Billie Holiday,and so what I'm trying to get to
is this question of as a black woman
creating art in New York Cityor in America beyond the trauma,
(27:32):
where are the impacts that you feel
you are having.
And just starting to
to make these honest works?
It felt like rebellions and and then it's
like I think I'm unpacking it slowly overtime, like even making the work.
Black bodies, not the new frontier.
(27:55):
My parents came to watch those showsand I remember in them
trying to protect me, they're like,we don't normally yes,
we have this impact of
like these things happening to us,but we don't talk about them
because we don't want to make other peopleuncomfortable or to have a consequence
by sharing our experiences.
And I, I feel fortunate in this
(28:16):
like time that I canI'm not saying there aren't like sometimes
I've had people like,get up and leave and in a show or Yeah.
Or some other workplaces like
don't they want we want to
have the change in diversity, butwe don't want to have the conversations
about like why someone might be
(28:38):
not comfortable to come into that space.
In talking about thethe racial reckoning in 2020,
seeing George Floyd, seeing Ahmaud Arbery
and Breonna Taylor,
it felt hopefulthat people were making space,
but it also felt
(28:59):
I just got met actually with a lot of like
I'd get into a room and they would be metwith a lot of resistance.
It's like
they'll only go this far,or We don't really want to change
our language to be more truthful about
what's happening.
You want it to be like more flowery.
I know.
Like just change the tone and then also,yeah, and, and getting farther along that
(29:23):
and getting more peopleinto different art spaces,
trying to change castingand who can view what character.
How is that changing casting?
I think it's
becoming more expansivein that specific situation.
I was explaining how some black folks are
Bipoc folks may not have a lot of access
(29:45):
to play to express in a societythat is telling us to suppress
or we have to come into the roomand succeed like we need to do.
Well, it's important so you can navigatethis world like you can't.
You can't be in between. You can't fail.
So trying to explain that for casting,
(30:05):
I was like,Can can we give more tools or room?
And so people know that they can come inmore as incels
or that they can play around as likein the audition, like, what's your choice?
Can it be maybe a little bit messierand you're still going to get the job?
So I feel like
there's like the understandingthat the lens of like
(30:25):
how what we're seeing forart needs to change.
But I still feel the resistance.
I feel like that like let's get into thenitty gritty of like these conversations.
Like what?
What does this mean?What are people experiencing?
How can we expand?
What are like where,
where areas that we're not doing welland like being honest about that?
(30:47):
Yeah,
you talked about
sometimes in your in presentingand creating your work
that doesn't always have to dowith the traumas of blackness.
You talked about the space for blackness,the imagination, for blackness,
and then not having to be blackabout blackness.
(31:07):
How about that?
Like you could just make work
and it doesn't have to have blackput on it all the time.
So I hear you talking about that
and the troops and archetypesthat echo through history, through time.
When I think about what must itbe like for you to get the funding,
the resources, the spaceto make life performance work?
(31:31):
Do you also feel a
push toward having to make worka certain way?
But what do you feel in termsof what you want to make
and what the the resources, the funders,the opportunities
are wanting to see from you?
As far as what
(31:52):
I want to make,I think I follow like like the questions,
the desire of,of like the projects that I envision.
So I feel fortunate in that regard.
And I think because I do dream big,that is helpful for like grants
or opportunities because,
(32:13):
you know, there's it's, it's a new ideaand you take
what I feel feel pressure about resources
for sure that it feels like,you know, I take this big vision
and then like how todo it with whatever is here.
I do think that helps build community,
(32:34):
like asking for helpwho can help me on the way
I feel
pressure about the opportunity sometimes,and I'm working on this.
I think my
in my like survival, I'm like, okay,
you only get these opportunities so oftenwe have to do well.
(32:57):
We have to or this needs to cometo the fullest thing.
And realizing like that,
like I want to be able to keep going.
I want to have this momentum.
And I think as you know, as a bipoc person
and survival, there's, you know, sadlysometimes a mentality for me.
I'm like, how long can this last?
Like, how sustainable can this be?
(33:17):
Am I like this?
My only opportunity and I'm really tryingto work on that mindset.
I'm like, Why can't there be more for you?
If you can create this space,
why can't there be more beyond this?
I'm doing that and and continuingto return to play and failure
like that as my role as an artist.
(33:41):
What advice do you have
for dancers, performers, artists,
anyone who has a radical imagination
who wants to put work in the world?
I didn't do it anywhere.
I was like, Do it
as much as fear or doubtor things can come in.
(34:01):
I feel like my vision is always stronger
and reading
Audre Lorde,Your silence will not protect you for her.
She just talks about she could liveand just like, you know, silence
these ideas or put them away,
or she could just speak themto truth and existence.
And for her it was like the same outcomesor consequences.
(34:24):
And I know thatjust really resonated with me.
That's like, I think I'm going towhether I wanted to change
how I'm doing these things,I think I'm going to do this vision
regardless,like I'm not someone else and not I.
Yeah, this is my voice.
So just trying to like, listen
and protect myselfor celebrate myself where I can
(34:48):
do it anyway.
Can you tell us
a little bit I know you'rejust at the first week of making it,
but can you tell us a little bitabout your the work
that you're creating hereat the School of Dance?
Yeah, I I'm seeing
(35:10):
like characters and environments
and in choosing this cast,they're all so unique,
like they're individually so fascinating
and they feel likethey each have like stories within them.
And so I'm kind of following thatwithin building this piece
and like the beginningthat we're just working with right now
(35:31):
and calling the Wanderer,and they feel like they've been navigating
this like darkness or dark environmentfor a long time and instead of being,
like, squashed by their environment or,yeah, we're defeated.
Yeah.
I'm just curious maybe even about thatlike line, like not all wonder are lost.
Like, what are they're like magic.
(35:53):
What was their magical crafts
like?
Is it to like, you know, be able to yieldsomething that isn't there?
Is it
the ability to follow their curiosityeven though they can't see
what's in front of them?
And yeah, I'm curiousabout taking that, like
pushing them to new liketo do different dynamics
and then also bringing them into likemore community and supporting one another.
(36:18):
Like I see the characters environment,but it feels like a piece on,
like allowing, like trust with yourselfand trust with a group.
It sounds like their experience
is a very importantpart of the fabric of the work.
Yes. Can you say why?
I mean, I always think with
who's in the room in mind
(36:41):
and they're incredibly gifted artists,I feel like they could
they could execute the step,they could do the dance.
But I yeah, it's important for me to like,see them.
And even in giving, like,specific prompts, I'm like, okay,
now what's your take on that? Like,what's your voice?
What like, what does this make you feel?
(37:02):
As I want to build
a piece, that they can like journeythrough?
It's so interesting because choice
feels likeI would imagine when you take away
someone's right for something,you've taken away their choice. Yes.
And as artists, especially liveperforming artists, I always believe
(37:25):
one of the greatest freedomswe have is choice.
You're on stage.
Whatever the director said, you want to doit, but you have to choose to do it.
And like on what timing will you do it?
So that's a choice in Improvizationit's a choice.
And what would you say abouthow does choice for
you connect to racial justice,for example?
(37:50):
I mean a just like,
yeah, what we've what we're fighting for
or the rights to exist, rightsto live, the rights to make change?
Yeah.
Feels like I'm trying to, like,give that to each person inside out
and like, whether it's with this pieceor other works, I'm doing,
I've thought a
(38:11):
lot about how much it changes me.
It changeslike what I think is possible for myself,
and then I see like my collaboratorsand they expand,
which is very exciting.
And then we take that to an audience,whether that's in a theater space
or putting it into a filmso it can reach more people
or doing a workshop and just talking.
(38:33):
I feel like survival feeds that we needto like stay in these parameters.
But if there's a way to kind of crackthat open to maybe question
if we can change our circumstances,whether that's on our own
or together as a community.
It seems like you've done thatwith breaking free
of traditional dancetraining within a particular discipline.
(38:57):
I mean, you're well beyond anyparticular style or discipline of dance.
You're already goingbeyond the boundaries of what was
and what's the standardor what widely accepted.
Right? You're choosing that too.
You choose it again and again and again.
It sounds like you're teachingyour students that way of moving
(39:20):
through your work.
So what else do you do in your teachingthat really encapsulates or expresses
your orientation toward racial justiceor anti-racism?
You feel like agencyand empowerment is a huge tool.
Yeah, it's like for themto feel like they have a voice.
(39:41):
I think in changing
what roles were givenor like in building a work
feels like another wayof like decolonizing anti-racism.
Like what is it to experience powerand what does power have to look like?
It was fascinating because at firstthe power was like it was force.
It was like, wow, like high energy.
(40:03):
And then I was like, thisinteresting history, you know, like you
force people to do thisor we do like, control.
So it was like,I think I'm imitating what I've seen.
And then, you know, I got tiredand then it was like, power
could be like,be my engine to be able to continue.
Hey, resilience
(40:24):
power can be the ability to love,
to care for myself and others anyway.
And it was like, it has so many forms.
And yeah, I
just, I guess in like one characterin particular
was like the most powerful in the,in this storyline.
(40:44):
And I'd say I spent six months,like proving I was powerful.
I was like, exhausted by it.
And I was like,what if I just already was?
I came in like, when I come in here, like,I just am.
And that was like,
shocking to me because I was like,I don't exist in this.
Like outside of here, like,outside of this, like fantasy.
Like,this is not how I walk around the world.
(41:06):
I like this is like a different way,
like a different learning, a differentpart of me, a different aspect.
And it was super exciting to liketap into that and like, open it up.
Yeah.
And so trying to, I guess like providethese other is like there's,
there's other ways, there's likewhether it's like coming into yourself
or like tapping into something new.
(41:27):
Yeah.
I'm like realizing how muchalso I embrace the uncomfortable
and this summer or these other spacesI was in before realizing like,
by me taking a risk, it's helpfulfor someone else to see
that I'm,you know, I'm like trying this on.
So then like if they're like,I don't know what we're doing,
they're like, but she's trying.
Like, I can let me see what that's like.
(41:51):
So yeah, there's this like,dialog back and forth
already with like,okay, I'm going to try this on,
but I'm not going to saythis is the one way
and then you're going to try this onand then we'll start to exchange that
and see where we can go with it.
Yes and yes and yes.
And I want to ask youif there's anything you wish
(42:12):
you could have saidthat you haven't discussed with us yet.
It's just so meaningful to have space.
It's so meaningful to have a spacewhere we can be ourselves and
and release.
Thank you.
Thank you, Kayla.
(42:33):
It's a real pleasure
for and.
Thank you for joining a race remix today.
This episode is made possible throughthe generous donations of our sponsors
and the efforts of our team of students,staff, faculty and community partners.
If you enjoyed this conversation,listen to more episodes at Race
Remix Arts dot Arizona dot Edu.
Race remix. Mix.
Welcome to Race Remix,
where we explore the intersectionsof racial justice and the arts.
We talk with artists, educatorsand thought leaders from around the world.
Building knowledgeone conversation at a time.
This podcast is producedby the Racial Justice Studio,
(00:21):
an initiative of ArizonaArts at the University of Arizona.
Welcome to Race Remix.
I'm your host, Amy Kraehe
My co-host today is Duane Cyrus,the director of the school Dance
at the University of Arizona.
Hi there, Cyrus. Hi, Amy.
Thank you for having me.
I'm here with Kayla Farrish,a multifaceted artist
(00:43):
whose work includesprojects and collaborations
that combine filmmaking, storytelling,dance, theater, performance and sounds.
Score. Welcome, Kayla.
Thank you.
I'm really excited to be here.
I think this is such an important piece
(01:04):
that can be really inspiringto people having this podcast.
But we're thrilled that you're here,and I want to start by
letting our listeners knowthat you are an amazingly accomplished
choreographer and performer,multimedia artist.
Can you just give us a little bit ofyour story about when you started dancing?
(01:25):
Sure.
I started dancing.
I think of my inspiration as mymy father actually.
He danced recreationally after college
and was my first danceteacher with my sister
and I and I remember just always
(01:47):
having music and dancein the family and expression.
And I remember at a young age, like,just always wanting to create.
And that would be you making the dances.
I would be writing stories.
I would be imagining myselfin music videos
all of the above.
(02:07):
Yeah.
And that just kept building, but it feltlike a really strong creative force,
including even with, like, danceforms themselves, like mixing
modern ballet, jazz,
improvization what, whateverI can come across.
I was like, I was just fascinated.
So did you take dance classesas a young child?
(02:27):
Yes, I did.
I well, I took dance classesboth at studio, at public school.
I'm from North Carolina,so there's the American Dance
Festival there,which happens every summer.
What's really exciting is likethere's a lot of different scenes.
So working with my dad or dancingwith my dad and I'm thinking about working
(02:49):
at my dancing at the church
or here is like liturgical praise dance,and then at the dance studio here,
like these different specific forms
jazz, dance, modern dance, ballet.
And then like the festivalor these public schools,
I oddly got a lot of postmoderndance and partnering.
(03:09):
They never went in one direction.
It's great to hear you speak abouthow movement was a part of your youth,
like you're growing up,and then you turn that into a career.
That's exciting.
So what I also understandabout your dancing
and the work that you make is that you
(03:29):
your work deals with themes of raceand racialization in America.
But for some newcomers,as well as longtime
dance patrons, they might ask, Well,what's race got to do with it?
What's the connectionbetween dance and race for you?
Yeah,
quite honestly, I knew I could.
(03:50):
We're talking about from these roots.
I knew I wanted to choreograph and create.
And I think what surprised mefinding my voice
was how much I was drawnto seeing my identity
once in these real life.
With.
Yeah, with in real life situationslike within living,
(04:12):
I was like, it became really importantfor me to see my identity.
And then also it surprised me
how the work became socio socio political.
And in saying that, I wanted
just to be able to give visibility,
give experience,
(04:35):
give truth,
and to seeing my identityand the folks around me
who are my collaborators,who are my family.
We're such a visual culture, right?
These days we are really visualin terms of social media
films and television video.
And it's interestingthat as a moving artists,
(04:57):
like a three dimensional visual artist,is what, you know, we could say,
you know, dealing with time and movement.
You are also workingwith film and photography,
and I think that that's really interestingbecause somehow that seems to hearken
back to your youthand the imagery of your youth.
And then when you say identity,
(05:19):
what do you mean
by identity?
yeah, and I'll break it down. I think
so. Identity.
I think there is like a visual aspect,
like what you're saying There's,like important stuff, like visibility.
And then I also what I also feel
really importantis feeling and experiencing.
(05:40):
And that like having creating spacesfor both that visibility
and for seeing likewhat our true experiences are.
Not being hidden by media,not being hidden
by rewritten histories,not being suppressed.
Like if we really got to sharehow this world
(06:02):
makes us feel or what we would hope for,
or just like a different fantasy
or imagination of our lives,what could that look like?
I'm like, interestedin creating those spaces,
and I think it does build empathy
and it builds an understanding of thingsthat are unseen.
(06:25):
I'm hearing from youlike not only the experience of seeing,
but the experience of being seenand creating spaces as an artist, I think.
Does our societyreally think about those things
when they're thinking about art?
You know what I mean?
And so so here you arecreating these works and telling stories
(06:48):
connected to race and identity,but it's not.
So it doesn't sound like you'reonly saying, See my story and that's it.
And then you leave us.
It sounds like you're creating a spacefor people to consider how they are seeing
and how they're being.
See, that's what I'm trying to get across.
Yeah, And I wanted to add on to
(07:10):
for what I'm doing with my identity,which I think is expansive.
I identify as a black woman from the South
and knowing also that my father's familyhistory is from sharecroppers
and also that our lineage is cut offand lost within America.
So knowing that enslavement built
is a major part of where we are today.
(07:33):
For me, the erasure, it's like the erasure
is really harsh reduction of
like how I am perceived or what
I can do, different power dynamics
that I'm always going up against, even
when I don't want to.
(07:53):
The film
photography sounds or writing
movement symbols like performanceand film can provide
ways like experience, experiencethese stories together.
You know, you're using different formsto create imagery and tell stories.
So that's so how is it different then?
(08:15):
So you're doing live dance.
You make live dance performances,
but then you also deal with cinema
or photography or even sound scores.
How do those things,how are they different?
How like what impactdo you feel those have for the audience?
(08:40):
When I create,
I'm often thinking about wordslike the starting content or
yeah, starting question, prompt content,where I really want to dig in farther
and then I'll visualize it
eitherlike sometimes how I visualize it is like,
it needs to be this like movementexpression.
(09:01):
I, I should say film.
I was really interested in film and musicbecause of people's
abilityto, like, everyone listens to music.
They are, they watch moviesand their ability to be transported
and their willingness to like, go withthese like characters and these stories.
And I wanted to feelthat in live performance
(09:24):
as well and also theater.
And I do think that happens with dance.
But sometimes, you know,
like with our internal monologueor internal story, maybe they don't always
get to go on that ride.
So I was just trying to think abouthow these things speak
and what they can do for the audience is
I feel like the
(09:45):
film and imagerywe get to like see the person
and that was so incredible to actually beseen how I was hoping to be seen. Yes.
Yeah, it's interesting.
Somebody said to methat dancing is a moving of souls,
and when I think about that,it is also visual, but it's audible.
(10:08):
And I love photography as well.
So I thought, Well, what's the differencebetween photography and dance?
I feel like photography capturesone moment
that maybe is not even the real moment,right?
Like you never see life in oneframe at a time.
But dance, it's moving.
And something about that is maybe more.
(10:31):
I won't get corny,but more spiritual than you know.
Yeah. And what youhow were you speaking through?
What sensory device are you speaking to?
People. So musicspeaks to us through our ears.
Photography, visual art through our eyes.
But dance, it's maybe more total.
I don't know.
(10:52):
It's like they do different things.
So sometimes I use danceor actually as layering.
I'm like, realizing how much I'mjust trying to plug into meaning.
So kind of like a mixtapewhere it'll be like,
here's this like current sound,but also I'm sampling.
From 50 years.
Ago, and also I'm going to pull this textfrom like James Baldwin took a Gaga
(11:14):
and the and you can suddenly seethe references and the ties to each other
that maybe if I was listening to justthis one part, I wouldn't have understood.
And so, yeah,I'm interested in the layering of meaning.
So I'm like, okay,maybe watching this person,
I feel spiritually connected to you, butI don't understand like how he got here.
I feel like I can pull like through thesedifferent mediums
(11:37):
parts of the past and into the future.
Amy I want, I want to say something aboutbecause I love
how you talking about layering,but blackness is not monolithic
and it is multilayered.
It's all kinds ofblackness is in our world
and somehow in our society.
(12:00):
I know you were alsoa student of Africana studies
while you wereat the University of Arizona.
But the point I'm getting to
is blacknesslives in our society as a spectacle.
Often it is perceived as it's it's seen.
We see from minstrelsyto sports, the bodies
(12:22):
that we see in sports to social media now.
And I often feel like that is neverthe truth of blackness.
It is a monolithic, you know, homogenized
representation of blacknessthat we didn't create.
But then there are these people,because I just heard you say
James Baldwinor you referenced James Baldwin earlier.
(12:46):
And I think about these people that youthat may speak truths to you.
Can you talk a little bitabout those people and why
they speak truth to you?
Yeah, we are not a monolith. So true.
I'm really
drawn to James Baldwin,specifically the fire.
Next time.
(13:08):
It felt like the first timeI could read someone,
like articulating how I.
I feel about you.
And again,not a monolithic declarative statement,
but like, I guess how I felt about historyinto my current time.
I didn't like it.
Just hard to be able to articulate
the grief, the rage,
(13:30):
like violence, oppression, navigating,
deciding to push forwardany way of rebellion.
I just I felt like he could
speak to speak to that throughout time
I was really drawn to also about sex,killing, rage and racism
just felt like it madeuse of our feelings were words like,
(13:53):
you're not allowed to feel angry,you're not allowed to.
Yeah, don't stay in grief too long.
Like if I wasn't, you know,where I was raised in the church.
Like, I would just like, you know,this is another way to deal with that.
Just like,give it away and try to just be joyful.
Like, yeah, I guess coming back to earlierworld were the spaces where
I can process and feel and how can thesethese feelings actually be like arrows?
(14:18):
Like I can, I can use them to make change.
As you're responding to Cyrus's
questions,you're you're speaking with your body.
I don't know if you know that,
but you are very much speakingwith your body and pulling the bow back.
But you alsouse language much like bell hooks and.
(14:40):
James Baldwin.
So will you read this line of a poem
that you wrote?
I've got Swing Low,
Sweet Chariot on my mind and ancestorsbreaking their backs,
creating magic out of hopelessness,turning soil into a nation.
When did you compose these words?
(15:04):
So actually,I was putting together these my
some of my initial pieces,Black Body Sonata, which is a duet
that talks about police brutality,but also talks about what it is like.
Navigate.
Yeah, different mannerismsof having to navigate and survive,
I should say mannerisms, behaviorsas black folks in predominantly
(15:25):
white spaces and like how likehow we navigate and manage that
and then getting to see our real responses
to the constant deaths
and then with Grit from Gracewas originally a solo
that I did that I just want to see myselfat my flawless power.
I was like, What does that feel like?
(15:47):
And power became
many definitions,and then it became a quartet
that I wanted to open that upto women and feminism
and feeling empowered in different ways.
And I put together this work,the New Frontier,
which was both of my first,like massive film.
(16:07):
Like I'm laughing because it was
everything that could go wrong went wrong,but that's okay.
There was there was art and there waslearning how to produce that.
And then
and then became also a live performancework at dance based in New York.
And they actually just wanted itto be a multi piece work.
But I wanted to imagine what
(16:28):
if indigenous folks, bipoc folkshistorically excluded folks
got to find this frontier of America,which did happen.
And I was just trying to imagine,like what what would
what would this look like with lesswith without the exploitation,
without so many thingsthat you make me think of.
Octavia Butler, for some reason,just how you're imagining
(16:51):
other other futures or other pathsactually could be also interesting.
And something about thatme made me think of Octavia Butler.
Yeah,that's actually that's when I was making
this work and my last two
Masters fiction and Put Away the Fire,which is my next work.
(17:12):
I was recommended to read Magical realism.
There's mostlyreading like these historical books
and poetry of Audre Lorde as well.
I didn't say that earlier,
but you're like,There's something about magical realism
both in Latin America
and and like Octavia Butlerand Toni Morrison.
(17:36):
Yeah, they kept giving you.
Yeah, I really am interestedin radical imagination
and this.
I love this poem.
What The end of this total work
we've like navigated through this quartetto do
and find it like playingwith different ideas of power and history.
And at the end there's
(17:59):
one person becomes the reporterand they're just telling us
all the news events.
But it's sort of like just like,what headlines
have happened under the Trumpadministration that could be both
imaginative or, or real?
And what was scary,as we were saying, these headlines,
even if they were imaginative,they weren't very far from the truth.
(18:24):
So it was like this, like high impact
and also trying againto like, play into the erasure
and things that have been happeningand like create in satire.
So it's just like this reporter'sridiculously cracking
and then this person comes out at the endand is reading this poem,
which I was inspiredby James Baldwin, actually, and,
(18:44):
and then finding my own words toI mean, it's it's pulling a lot.
Swing low, sweet chariot.
It's swing low, sweet.
That's the song that's been there forever.
And then just imagininglike turning the trauma
that enslaved folks have livedand breaking their backs, creating magic
out of hopelessness,turning well into an Asian like
(19:06):
such a powerful
image, while also saying,we're still here.
Like, you can't you can't change this.
You can't alter it.
I mean, this is what happened,but we're still here.
So, yeah.
Sweet home
screen Chevy had come inside
(19:27):
to carry me home saying,
sweet and me and come to carry me home.
You've said, and I quote,
I aim to hold a mirror to the societywe form and participate in.
What is it that you are doing as a dancer
(19:50):
to create that mirror?
I was combining at first,
like really images of humanism,
thingsthat might feel like the feel very honest
and are vulnerable to having like
human movement,human gestures, relationship
(20:11):
between people, even building up the space
and set in a certain wayof like places that we recognize.
So you're using like the, the,the set, the physical
props and placement. Of.
Physical things that you chooseto bring onto the stage.
Yeah, like a chair,a certain light fixture,
(20:31):
like the things that I'm like,these are already in our daily lives
I like I take out that some of thatlike imaginative work.
And so you can see what
I'm engaging with or see
can like the photographer in the cinema,like where am I in, who is this person?
And physicallyI think there's also a part with texts
(20:54):
as a text speaking dialogs monologue.
That's yeah, I feel like speakinghas been helpful, helpful tool,
but also I've always been interestedalso in sharing what I'm feeling on stage.
So speaking is another way to know,
to give more contextand then movement wise,
(21:14):
being like really deep in improvizationor playing creativity,
I'm really curious aboutlike how those like what
do those feelingslike what does anger look like
and like actually seeinghow does that move through the body?
And now what's thatin relationship to someone else?
What is like grief? I,
(21:35):
I had the pleasure of watching you,
Kayla, set up the audition
for the students that are going to performa work this semester.
And that was really interestingin terms of this question
that Amy asksabout holding up a mirror to society.
You started whatI I'll try and describe it when I saw
(22:00):
you had all the dancers in the space
and you prompted themthrough improvization
that helped them to engagewith each other.
It wasn't about structured linesand everyone trying to do the same move
with that concept of perfection.
(22:20):
What looked like a mirror to me
was the fact that they were making choicesabout how they were going to
be in the space and they were respondingto the other people in the space.
And when we look at each other,we are reflections of each other.
That's a mirror, right?
And so it seemed likethat was the doorway that you brought.
Our school of dance students throughwas a doorway of reflection or a mirror.
(22:44):
That's what. I saw, an intention.
It's like, what is your intentionwith then?
Whatever movementthat you're doing, like you can see it.
And another wayI'm trying to show this mirror
reflection is to show, okay,what is what is our current experience?
It's like one way,like having space to exist and be
(23:09):
and be seen.
The radical imaginationwas another way of like,
I'm going to try on a role that doesn'tbelong to me or I didn't get to inherit,
or I'm going to do what I'm notsupposed to do, I'm going to erupt.
I to me, it feels like liberationor transformation.
You get spaces to experiencesomething else.
(23:29):
And and in discussing
like these experiences,
these current experiencesor future experiences and history,
that ends up being a reflectionof what's what's happening.
What are you working on right now?
Wow. I feel likeI have to describe everything.
(23:50):
I'm working on a new
full length work calledPut Away the Fired Year,
and it's my first venture into combining
my love for cinema and live performance.
And what I mean bythat is a breaking down.
These characters are archetypes.
(24:12):
In the 1936 years,there are like the archetypes of Mammy
archetypes, some likestill some cocooning, meaning I'm
looking at the reductionof bipoc characters.
Sometimes they're placement like servants.
The entertainer just reduced archetypes,
and in researching and reading about them,
(24:34):
they literally are written into the storywith full narratives.
The writers like, like,I'll get Bojangles into here
for this like dance scene,but without like outside of that,
they don't really exist.
So do you see those archetypes?
Do you see in any way those archetypesechoing through time to this day?
(24:55):
Like, what do you think about what hashappened to those archetypes?
What That's a great question.
I mean, I saw the reflection
or I see the you know,I see the reflection of history
where history is fragmented.
(25:17):
I'll speak as as for like
what I feel is my history asan African-American feels very fragmented.
It feels like,
you know, whatever
I can gather and piece together,there's missing holes in that lineage.
So when I look see
characters with missing storylines,
where do they goafter like the entertainer maybe
now is like the spectacleof like an athlete or B, the singer,
(25:42):
B, the singer.
But we don't want to like hereyou talk about politics, You know,
you don't want that.
Yeah, I wonder how that echoes.
It's so interesting that musically, youyou shared information with us earlier.
You mentioned Nina Simone and Sam Cooke.
I'm like, wow, those two really?
And I just think about so much whatNina Simone,
(26:03):
the greatNina Simone, went through in her life.
And she had so much to say.
And I'm I wonder what your thoughts areabout what's left.
You know, like what is leftwhen history discusses Nina Simone?
Is it her message or is it her trauma?
I see and feel her message.
(26:25):
I can like it feels spiritualthrough them,
like the music that I likeand it moves me.
And I think that it feels like itechoes forever.
I feel sad about her trauma.
Yeah, I just makes me sad thatsuch an incredible artist,
such an incredible artist and humanand they're giving so much.
(26:47):
Like, I'm like, Yeah, likethey don't deserve a No one does those.
Like, they don't deserve that for.
Ever contributed to our society.
Yes. Our culture.
And so then it gives methe thought you've already touched on it,
but as a black woman,I think of our musical artists.
And can I say Whitney, right now,
(27:10):
and you know, the trauma traumas,Billie Holiday,
you know, if you're talkingabout the thirties through the sixties,
Billie Holiday,and so what I'm trying to get to
is this question of as a black woman
creating art in New York Cityor in America beyond the trauma,
(27:32):
where are the impacts that you feel
you are having.
And just starting to
to make these honest works?
It felt like rebellions and and then it's
like I think I'm unpacking it slowly overtime, like even making the work.
Black bodies, not the new frontier.
(27:55):
My parents came to watch those showsand I remember in them
trying to protect me, they're like,we don't normally yes,
we have this impact of
like these things happening to us,but we don't talk about them
because we don't want to make other peopleuncomfortable or to have a consequence
by sharing our experiences.
And I, I feel fortunate in this
(28:16):
like time that I canI'm not saying there aren't like sometimes
I've had people like,get up and leave and in a show or Yeah.
Or some other workplaces like
don't they want we want to
have the change in diversity, butwe don't want to have the conversations
about like why someone might be
(28:38):
not comfortable to come into that space.
In talking about thethe racial reckoning in 2020,
seeing George Floyd, seeing Ahmaud Arbery
and Breonna Taylor,
it felt hopefulthat people were making space,
but it also felt
(28:59):
I just got met actually with a lot of like
I'd get into a room and they would be metwith a lot of resistance.
It's like
they'll only go this far,or We don't really want to change
our language to be more truthful about
what's happening.
You want it to be like more flowery.
I know.
Like just change the tone and then also,yeah, and, and getting farther along that
(29:23):
and getting more peopleinto different art spaces,
trying to change castingand who can view what character.
How is that changing casting?
I think it's
becoming more expansivein that specific situation.
I was explaining how some black folks are
Bipoc folks may not have a lot of access
(29:45):
to play to express in a societythat is telling us to suppress
or we have to come into the roomand succeed like we need to do.
Well, it's important so you can navigatethis world like you can't.
You can't be in between. You can't fail.
So trying to explain that for casting,
(30:05):
I was like,Can can we give more tools or room?
And so people know that they can come inmore as incels
or that they can play around as likein the audition, like, what's your choice?
Can it be maybe a little bit messierand you're still going to get the job?
So I feel like
there's like the understandingthat the lens of like
(30:25):
how what we're seeing forart needs to change.
But I still feel the resistance.
I feel like that like let's get into thenitty gritty of like these conversations.
Like what?
What does this mean?What are people experiencing?
How can we expand?
What are like where,
where areas that we're not doing welland like being honest about that?
(30:47):
Yeah,
you talked about
sometimes in your in presentingand creating your work
that doesn't always have to dowith the traumas of blackness.
You talked about the space for blackness,the imagination, for blackness,
and then not having to be blackabout blackness.
(31:07):
How about that?
Like you could just make work
and it doesn't have to have blackput on it all the time.
So I hear you talking about that
and the troops and archetypesthat echo through history, through time.
When I think about what must itbe like for you to get the funding,
the resources, the spaceto make life performance work?
(31:31):
Do you also feel a
push toward having to make worka certain way?
But what do you feel in termsof what you want to make
and what the the resources, the funders,the opportunities
are wanting to see from you?
As far as what
(31:52):
I want to make,I think I follow like like the questions,
the desire of,of like the projects that I envision.
So I feel fortunate in that regard.
And I think because I do dream big,that is helpful for like grants
or opportunities because,
(32:13):
you know, there's it's, it's a new ideaand you take
what I feel feel pressure about resources
for sure that it feels like,you know, I take this big vision
and then like how todo it with whatever is here.
I do think that helps build community,
(32:34):
like asking for helpwho can help me on the way
I feel
pressure about the opportunity sometimes,and I'm working on this.
I think my
in my like survival, I'm like, okay,
you only get these opportunities so oftenwe have to do well.
(32:57):
We have to or this needs to cometo the fullest thing.
And realizing like that,
like I want to be able to keep going.
I want to have this momentum.
And I think as you know, as a bipoc person
and survival, there's, you know, sadlysometimes a mentality for me.
I'm like, how long can this last?
Like, how sustainable can this be?
(33:17):
Am I like this?
My only opportunity and I'm really tryingto work on that mindset.
I'm like, Why can't there be more for you?
If you can create this space,
why can't there be more beyond this?
I'm doing that and and continuingto return to play and failure
like that as my role as an artist.
(33:41):
What advice do you have
for dancers, performers, artists,
anyone who has a radical imagination
who wants to put work in the world?
I didn't do it anywhere.
I was like, Do it
as much as fear or doubtor things can come in.
(34:01):
I feel like my vision is always stronger
and reading
Audre Lorde,Your silence will not protect you for her.
She just talks about she could liveand just like, you know, silence
these ideas or put them away,
or she could just speak themto truth and existence.
And for her it was like the same outcomesor consequences.
(34:24):
And I know thatjust really resonated with me.
That's like, I think I'm going towhether I wanted to change
how I'm doing these things,I think I'm going to do this vision
regardless,like I'm not someone else and not I.
Yeah, this is my voice.
So just trying to like, listen
and protect myselfor celebrate myself where I can
(34:48):
do it anyway.
Can you tell us
a little bit I know you'rejust at the first week of making it,
but can you tell us a little bitabout your the work
that you're creating hereat the School of Dance?
Yeah, I I'm seeing
(35:10):
like characters and environments
and in choosing this cast,they're all so unique,
like they're individually so fascinating
and they feel likethey each have like stories within them.
And so I'm kind of following thatwithin building this piece
and like the beginningthat we're just working with right now
(35:31):
and calling the Wanderer,and they feel like they've been navigating
this like darkness or dark environmentfor a long time and instead of being,
like, squashed by their environment or,yeah, we're defeated.
Yeah.
I'm just curious maybe even about thatlike line, like not all wonder are lost.
Like, what are they're like magic.
(35:53):
What was their magical crafts
like?
Is it to like, you know, be able to yieldsomething that isn't there?
Is it
the ability to follow their curiosityeven though they can't see
what's in front of them?
And yeah, I'm curiousabout taking that, like
pushing them to new liketo do different dynamics
and then also bringing them into likemore community and supporting one another.
(36:18):
Like I see the characters environment,but it feels like a piece on,
like allowing, like trust with yourselfand trust with a group.
It sounds like their experience
is a very importantpart of the fabric of the work.
Yes. Can you say why?
I mean, I always think with
who's in the room in mind
(36:41):
and they're incredibly gifted artists,I feel like they could
they could execute the step,they could do the dance.
But I yeah, it's important for me to like,see them.
And even in giving, like,specific prompts, I'm like, okay,
now what's your take on that? Like,what's your voice?
What like, what does this make you feel?
(37:02):
As I want to build
a piece, that they can like journeythrough?
It's so interesting because choice
feels likeI would imagine when you take away
someone's right for something,you've taken away their choice. Yes.
And as artists, especially liveperforming artists, I always believe
(37:25):
one of the greatest freedomswe have is choice.
You're on stage.
Whatever the director said, you want to doit, but you have to choose to do it.
And like on what timing will you do it?
So that's a choice in Improvizationit's a choice.
And what would you say abouthow does choice for
you connect to racial justice,for example?
(37:50):
I mean a just like,
yeah, what we've what we're fighting for
or the rights to exist, rightsto live, the rights to make change?
Yeah.
Feels like I'm trying to, like,give that to each person inside out
and like, whether it's with this pieceor other works, I'm doing,
I've thought a
(38:11):
lot about how much it changes me.
It changeslike what I think is possible for myself,
and then I see like my collaboratorsand they expand,
which is very exciting.
And then we take that to an audience,whether that's in a theater space
or putting it into a filmso it can reach more people
or doing a workshop and just talking.
(38:33):
I feel like survival feeds that we needto like stay in these parameters.
But if there's a way to kind of crackthat open to maybe question
if we can change our circumstances,whether that's on our own
or together as a community.
It seems like you've done thatwith breaking free
of traditional dancetraining within a particular discipline.
(38:57):
I mean, you're well beyond anyparticular style or discipline of dance.
You're already goingbeyond the boundaries of what was
and what's the standardor what widely accepted.
Right? You're choosing that too.
You choose it again and again and again.
It sounds like you're teachingyour students that way of moving
(39:20):
through your work.
So what else do you do in your teachingthat really encapsulates or expresses
your orientation toward racial justiceor anti-racism?
You feel like agencyand empowerment is a huge tool.
Yeah, it's like for themto feel like they have a voice.
(39:41):
I think in changing
what roles were givenor like in building a work
feels like another wayof like decolonizing anti-racism.
Like what is it to experience powerand what does power have to look like?
It was fascinating because at firstthe power was like it was force.
It was like, wow, like high energy.
(40:03):
And then I was like, thisinteresting history, you know, like you
force people to do thisor we do like, control.
So it was like,I think I'm imitating what I've seen.
And then, you know, I got tiredand then it was like, power
could be like,be my engine to be able to continue.
Hey, resilience
(40:24):
power can be the ability to love,
to care for myself and others anyway.
And it was like, it has so many forms.
And yeah, I
just, I guess in like one characterin particular
was like the most powerful in the,in this storyline.
(40:44):
And I'd say I spent six months,like proving I was powerful.
I was like, exhausted by it.
And I was like,what if I just already was?
I came in like, when I come in here, like,I just am.
And that was like,
shocking to me because I was like,I don't exist in this.
Like outside of here, like,outside of this, like fantasy.
Like,this is not how I walk around the world.
(41:06):
I like this is like a different way,
like a different learning, a differentpart of me, a different aspect.
And it was super exciting to liketap into that and like, open it up.
Yeah.
And so trying to, I guess like providethese other is like there's,
there's other ways, there's likewhether it's like coming into yourself
or like tapping into something new.
(41:27):
Yeah.
I'm like realizing how muchalso I embrace the uncomfortable
and this summer or these other spacesI was in before realizing like,
by me taking a risk, it's helpfulfor someone else to see
that I'm,you know, I'm like trying this on.
So then like if they're like,I don't know what we're doing,
they're like, but she's trying.
Like, I can let me see what that's like.
(41:51):
So yeah, there's this like,dialog back and forth
already with like,okay, I'm going to try this on,
but I'm not going to saythis is the one way
and then you're going to try this onand then we'll start to exchange that
and see where we can go with it.
Yes and yes and yes.
And I want to ask youif there's anything you wish
(42:12):
you could have saidthat you haven't discussed with us yet.
It's just so meaningful to have space.
It's so meaningful to have a spacewhere we can be ourselves and
and release.
Thank you.
Thank you, Kayla.
(42:33):
It's a real pleasure
for and.
Thank you for joining a race remix today.
This episode is made possible throughthe generous donations of our sponsors
and the efforts of our team of students,staff, faculty and community partners.
If you enjoyed this conversation,listen to more episodes at Race
Remix Arts dot Arizona dot Edu.
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