May 10, 2024 • 60 mins
Cumulative Grief, the experience of multiple losses in a short period of time. Grief is personal. Grief is fluid. Chiming in and out of spaces that ask you to be malleable is part of the healing process. Dylan’s passion for wildlife conservation and caring for exotic animals translates to a strong bond and relationship between the animal and their caretaker. Stronger empathy, love and understanding for those that don’t have a voice and for those around. “If my experience can resonate with a handful of people and help them then it will all be worth it”, as Dylan (@dylanprojansky) shares how he came out stronger through openness and vulnerability.
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(00:07):
Music.
Welcome to Raw Runners Podcast, where runners share their most adverse experiences
and the ebbs and flows of their healing processes, all while eating really good food.
(00:32):
High five ramen no all right in the
fulton are we recording oh perfect all right well we're unlimited time i could
talk about food all day i think we're talking about food because usually we
have food here but we don't this morning because bringing high five ramen in
at six in the morning could ruin dylan's work day i don't know if that's yeah
the vibe and louise's work Workday?
(00:53):
Yes, workday. And we're VIP access before hoping to the public where we're at.
So we are at my work, which is an amazing thing to say.
We are currently in the wild reef habitat or outside the wild reef habitat at the Shedd Aquarium.
I am privileged and blessed to work on our animal engagement team as an animal
(01:16):
trainer here at the Shedd Aquarium.
And so this is one of my favorite habitats
just because of how surreal it is
it feels you really do like at least i feel like you're always transported into
another world and especially being here and like in chicago this is just like
such a hidden gem and especially in the mornings when no one else is here like
(01:38):
the sound of the water and the ripples on the floor is just.
Just memorizing.
I could sit here for hours.
It's pretty amazing, I'm not going to lie. It's beautiful. Do you ever just,
be looking at it and then just like shed a tear because i feel like that you
know we haven't gotten to that moment but it definitely feels like the level
(02:01):
of like falling asleep like getting just like holy just like calm zen moment
and just i mentioned this a second ago but i'm like i.
Work with like a lot of reptiles and birds and so.
I'm bringing some of the animals and just like out here
and letting them wander and see the sharks and see
the fish and having that moment and it's
(02:23):
just so peaceful i can only imagine do
you ever notice well what do you what's your role here first of
all i am an animal trainer on our animal
engagement and interpretation team so i my team
is responsible for the care the husbandry of
a plethora of different species and our
team is our interpreters we go out
(02:46):
to the floor we bring the shed aquarium to people whether it's
just kind of pop-up kind of little mini moments
or we work with our learning department to go
to schools or to we've gone to hospitals
and really bring these connections and
these experiences to people so doing kind of like
pop-up experiences as well so that people can
(03:07):
see what a snake is like up close or
what a tortoise is up close or what a bird really is
up close is a really cool special
moment i remember when i was
younger it was the iguana guy the iguana
guy is like just something that's popping up for me in my memory of like we
were at a zoo or something and like the iguana guy comes out i mean we have
(03:30):
an iguana which is he's pretty amazing so like that i mean kind of this me but
i guess not totally me because we have some others you're not just the Just
the iguana guy. Not just the iguana guy. Yeah, for sure.
Luis, do you have any early memories of, do you have a version of iguana guy memories?
I think I, I don't know. I think definitely when I visited the shed before the penguin exhibit.
(03:54):
And so the people that were with the treats and kind of facilitating that.
And that's kind of my memory.
I guess, is that the equivalent? Is that sort of.
I mean, we, I mean, a little bit. that we work on the day-to-day training of our animals.
Our animals are animals. We have two beautiful macaws that we have worked with
(04:15):
for years and are capable of bringing a bird that does flights and encounters
into the middle of the aquarium for people to see.
You think about it with like your dogs or cats at home, like taking them to
the vet and then like care that requires going into an animal like that.
Well, what about, you know, different birds or different reptiles?
(04:37):
That's the things that I personally work on, but we do that.
Other teams do that for every single animal here.
So the penguins, the dolphins, the belugas, the sea lions, the fish,
the sharks, all of the animals here.
All of those moments are happening every single day, 365 day,
weekends, holidays, all of that work is being put into it. Wow.
(05:01):
It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. You used to come here with your dad, right?
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that because you're here now.
My family, well, I have always loved wildlife and animals. and I knew from a
super early age that I wanted to work with animals in some capacity or another.
(05:25):
And when I was really, really little, my dad and like, didn't matter what kind
of weather it was, if he had a day off, we'd be going to, at the time it was
the Cleveland Zoo and Cleveland Parks.
And then when we moved back to Chicago, it was the Shedd Aquarium.
It was the Brookfield Zoo.
My grandparents were members of the Lincoln Park Zoo.
So we were hitting up all of the museums, all of the zoos.
(05:50):
We were members here, to the field, to the Museum of Science and Industry.
All of the major science centers, all of the major zoos and aquariums here in
the city were just places that we would go.
No, probably because I always wanted to be there and always loved to see the
animals and always had such a love and passion growing up for all of these creatures
(06:15):
that it was something that we just did.
We just kept coming year after year, coming back.
Did you in that time when you were going with your family, visiting these different
places, have a particular favorite in mind?
Oh, I was always biased towards the big cats, which we do not have here,
but that's OK. Okay, but there was something about just the grace,
(06:38):
the power, tigers and the lions of the leopard. Incredible animals.
I don't know, there was something mystical about them and just memorizing and beautiful.
And also they were huge and hearing the lions roar and everything just drew me in.
(07:00):
And so that was definitely one of the pieces to it, for sure.
But it's always been amazing to me in the presence of these animals.
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with that. The topic today is something that some
people at our age haven't really
been through yet, where some people are starting to experience grief.
And Luis and I have both experienced grief in the past five years.
(07:23):
And today is we're tying grief into your, just like your whole journey.
So I really want to set it up for kind of our listeners to learn about the characters
in your life growing up that were important to you.
And, you know, a little bit about your family dynamic growing up and some of
those experiences. experiences?
Yeah. So, I mean, we, I grew up, I had my, it was my mom, my dad,
(07:50):
my younger brother and myself.
And so it was the four of us, my brother and I have always been super close,
very, he's three years younger than I am almost to the day.
And we always grew up super close doing all tons of things together.
And as I mentioned, we, for the first couple of years of my life,
we lived in Cleveland, and then moved back to Chicago because all of our family was here in Chicago.
(08:16):
So my grandparents, my aunts, my uncles, my parents, best friends,
all were here in Chicago.
So it was a very, they wanted to come back. And they definitely knew that they
wanted to raise their two boys here in Chicago with also all of the support
of their family and their friends.
So growing up, it was a very, like, you saw your grandparents,
(08:38):
you were with your aunts and uncles and cousins, and you would do weekends here
with this aunt and weekends there with that grandparent.
And we just grew up with that kind of doing holidays together.
And, you know, the major holidays together and doing the minor holidays together.
And then when I was introduced and met my time girlfriend and then eventually
(09:05):
wife, her grandmother was just always around.
So she was always it was like every Sunday night, sometimes even more than that. It was like all.
Sometimes two, three, four times a week. She was always going to be there,
always going to be at dinner.
So both myself and my now wife, Ashley, we just always had our grandparents
(09:28):
around, which we were super fortunate about.
I mentioned that my grandmother was a member of the Lincoln Park Zoo,
so we would always be at the Lincoln Park Zoo together.
My grandparents are the ones that introduced me
to sports or the love of sports also to
my first swear words were were learned from my grandmother which one my mom's
(09:53):
mom her passion we'll say and love of chicago sports teams specifically the
cubs and the blackhawks also then equaled to a frustration
with the Cubs and Blackhawks.
So I have distinct memories of her swearing at the TV and yelling.
(10:13):
So I grew up being a true Chicago sports fan of the Cubs,
the Blackhawks, and the Bulls were like my Chicago teams that just grandma and
grandpa or because grandma was rooting for the
teams like these were this was my team as well
so really really being blessed and
(10:35):
fortunate enough to also have like that connection and that
love and that shared passion with them well they kind of fostered that but having
that kind of same energy and love was a really fun way to grandma always had
the game on or grandpa always had one of the games on and so sitting down with
them and watching one of those games.
(10:57):
Even though they didn't always go well, those were really still special moments, for sure.
Going to the zoo, watching games together, it just sounds like you were just
really surrounded by family early on. And that's really cool.
Do you have any specific memories with your grandma that you can just very distinctly remember?
(11:20):
My one grandmother was a diabetic. And so she always had little like jars of
candy and like chocolates around and she would always like offer them.
She had like classic like grandma like Twinkies ho-hos and like Debbie cakes
and like all of those things like always in her fridge.
And my mom was like no you're not gonna eat those when like at home but like
(11:43):
you go to grandma's house like you can get the good stuff kind of vibe and then
my grand other grandma and grandpa.
They always had ice cream in the house and my grandfather still to this day
like eats like he's a five-year-old sometimes but he they always had a ton of
ice cream in the house and And there was one point,
(12:04):
my grandmother was ahead of her time on just about everything.
A huge feminist, believed in.
She was a Chicago public school principal, an incredible, incredible woman.
And she went or heard at one point of an ice cream diet where you only eat ice
cream for your entire diet.
(12:26):
And in the morning was a coffee ice cream. And then for lunch was a vanilla.
Vanilla and then for like dinner, you can do like a more savory,
like decadent ice cream.
And my dad to this day, he's like, I lasted two days before I was just like
violently sick and just too much ice cream.
But she heard it on the radio or on the news or in a book that she read that
(12:50):
that was like the diet you had to try.
I mean, I don't even know, 80s? 90s? I feel like that's when all the like weird
crash diets started coming up was like in the 80s, 90s, they were like,
yeah, just eat potatoes.
And that's, you know. How long did the dieting last?
Literally like two days. Two days, okay. It was literally like a weekend.
(13:11):
I tried it. And my grandma was like pushing it hard.
But it was like a two day, maybe three days. And by that point,
they're like, we need some something else, like some chicken,
some like vegetables, some like a potato, even just like give me something other
than just like this ice cream.
I don't know why ice cream was
or they thought that ice cream was going to like be the next new phase.
(13:35):
Kyle's like definitely Candyland play or something. Oh, my God.
You know, just so mentally and all of the light quintessential like sweets of
like grandparents. That's what we had.
So your childhood just sounds like there's a lot of love, which I always appreciate.
I do want to get a little bit into your experience with your parents,
(13:57):
your role coming through as kind of like a supporter of the family.
So my father was
born with a brittle bone disease so my dad was born with a brittle bone disease
called osteogenesis imperfecta he has type 1 which is the least severe of the
diseases and so when i was born
(14:17):
on chance of also receiving it i did not receive it but my brother did,
receive it and so that's part of the reason why we've always been so close is
that growing up I would see him essentially like he would go to Shriners Hospital,
get treatments three, four times a year, depending on the year.
And so like roughhousing with your younger brother, like wasn't a thing because
(14:40):
like I could actually like break one of his bones.
He, when you just look at him today, or when you look at my dad,
like you can't tell just by on like the outside that there is anything that
they would like be dealing with in this kind of capacity.
But it really kind of growing up forced me a lot of the times to take on a role.
(15:04):
And my mom and parents have talked about it of like almost sometimes like being
that like third parent to my brother, just because he needed.
There was times where he broke his femur
or he had a broken arm or things like that
and the amount of attention that that requires especially
being so young is much higher than the older
brother and so for that kind of regard I remember
(15:27):
like even like middle school high school like I would
wake up by myself make sure all my homework was done make sure I had something
for breakfast make make sure you know the lunch was packed if I was bringing
lunch that day and make sure that you know I was the one getting to the buff
on time so it's like all of those like small things that.
(15:48):
I just had to do it because that was what needed to
do the mornings kind of became my like Dylan
time which was kind of nice at the time but that's
part of the reason why I kind of took on
a lot of the responsibilities or at least solo responsibilities and
then a time also assisting with you know extra chores
(16:08):
around the house or bringing up the laundry or bringing you know the groceries
putting the groceries away um all the kind of extra small task around the house
my dad worked in retail so there was a lot of either like early mornings or
late nights or just like long hours.
So my mom really relied on me to do a lot of the household tasks and also just,
(16:34):
taking care of myself at the same time as a 13-year-old, 14-year-old, 15-year-old, which...
Part of the reason why like I felt like
I grew up quickly is kind of the idea with
that and you know people would always give you the compliment of being so mature
and like being so level-headed and being so responsible but all those reasons
(16:58):
were there because of everything that was going on so it was a very there was
definitely a dynamic at play at that.
Did your father need any particular support? What did it look like for him and
what kind of care did your father need?
Yeah, I definitely feel when my dad, he would like stub a toe and he would most
(17:19):
likely break one of those toes.
And so it wasn't always the fear of injuries, but my mom would definitely assist in his care.
And he definitely kind of put his needs aside
because he wanted to make sure that he was working and providing
for the family and making sure that he was doing the best that
he can in that regard but then my mom
(17:40):
would then make sure my brother was a lot of the times like taken care of there's
more of a i would say a make sure that dylan is okay good you're okay great
moving on to whatever million other things were as you know as a mom of two kids and.
Wife then working and all those
(18:01):
things like there's so many other things to worry
about and deal about dylan was dylan's got
it how what was dylan's thought process at this time
it's a lot of responsibility right like you are aware that you're there's
this condition with your dad you know this condition with your your
brother as well and so dylan is also forced to kind of grow up fast as you said
(18:21):
you know i feel like i haven't even like really been able to like at the time
it was just like another day it was just another tuesday it was just another
friday whatever it was and I feel like it's taken me,
you know, 10 years.
Talking also like talking with a therapist to like really look back on all of
(18:41):
those moments and all that upbringing to like realize what I was doing at the time.
What I was doing was I knew that I received that attention when I succeeded at something.
So I was the kid who was getting the straight A's and I'm going to bring the
report card home. And like, that was something that we could celebrate together.
(19:02):
Or I was the kid that did the million into
extra tasks always growing up I
always look back at high school I'm like I have no idea how I did all the
things that I did I would wake up I would do an extra half
period before class even started and then
I would school would end and I would stay at school to like
get all my homework done and do a club here and then a club there and
(19:24):
then I would do a rehearsal for a show and then
after that rehearsal I'd have dinner and then in between dinner I'd then go
to another rehearsal so like my day was essentially like a school started at
7 30 and i'd get home at like 8 39 o'clock wow in bed by 10 o'clock to then
wake up and do it all over again and so i feel like it was,
(19:46):
i can if i can succeed at all of those things that's where i'll get the recognition
and the feedback and the dylan is solid you've been a solid figure it sounds
like so it's the beginning,
and so he's okay great we
can focus on this and this and then
(20:06):
even getting through like you're you're staying busy like you're really oh yeah
is it coming from just a busy bodiedness out of character or did you feel was
was there kind of this like I want to succeed in more than just this oh I definitely
feel like there was the need to succeed at.
Everything. Like I wanted to be good to the best at all of these things.
(20:32):
And I wanted to be a good friend and I wanted to support my friends and my schoolmates
and my peers and my teachers and my when I did theater, like my show and like my cast,
like I wanted to support all of these people
and so that they could see
also like it's not just not just
(20:55):
at home but all of my friends all of my peers all my teachers could
also see what i am doing it's
almost like you're it's your character yeah right like
if you were to like look at it and like the sense of like you're watching a movie like
you would have been like that character the one
that people can really depend pen on to be okay and
to be there for them if needed it's like you really took
(21:17):
that on and wanted to just do it to the best of your ability
which is really commendable were you running at this
time when you were young no right so at this time i mean i didn't have any time
for that like i my you didn't have time no yeah what it was just if i stayed
busy if i like always had something Like if I wasn't doing something,
(21:41):
like I was sleeping towards like my late junior into senior year,
like 10, 1030 rolled around.
And if ever homework wasn't done, I'd try to wake up in the next morning to
get it before getting onto the bus.
And then whatever wasn't done by that point, like that was it.
Like I accepted the fate of the responsibilities of that because I just didn't
(22:02):
have the time and the ability to not.
Dylan was resting, Dylan was probably coming to a point of being overwhelmed
by things that were sort of piling up, sort of this big sense of responsibility
was probably like already starting to more,
you're assimilating that a little bit more, right? It sounds like you were going
into a different stage of life.
(22:23):
And so when I got, every time I got sick, it always felt like my body was just
being like, Dylan, too much.
You need to pull it back a little bit. Like you need to slow it down.
You need to get some sleep. You need to rest. We will make you rest.
I'm like, you're, you're sitting down for a minute.
And like, that was always like, okay, okay, I'm gonna take a couple days and
like restart and always felt, I mean, no one, getting sick is never fun.
(22:48):
But it was always just like that kind of mentality.
Part of the reason why we moved back to Chicago was for the family support for
my dad and for my brother and for my mom's friends and dad's friends that were
here in Chicago to have that third party support for our family.
(23:08):
And obviously family is what gives you that support.
So that's one of the reasons why we were here in Chicago was for all of that.
How old were you when you moved to Chicago?
We were just four. So I was I was pretty young. And so it was a very like early
on process that we, at least my parents knew, I didn't know at this time,
my parents knew that this was where the support was going to come from for our family.
(23:30):
The extended family, you know, I'm sure added like such a great amount of support,
but on a day to day, it's you and my brother, dad. So like that's the day to day grind.
I'm going to jump a little far ahead. I really want to get into kind of 2020,
2021 and how running even started for you.
(23:51):
I mean, I didn't grow up running either, so I can relate to you in that way.
But a lot of people, they they grow up and they already were running track.
When did Dylan wake up and was like, hey, I think I'm going to I'm going to
just run because, you know, you have like three races this year. Yeah. Just, yeah.
From, I always joke, I'm like, looking back, like if you told like high school,
(24:11):
college Dylan, like you were going to be a runner, like I would laugh in your face.
Like that was, there was no chance, like only the craziest of people did that.
Before 2020, the most I ever ran was like the high school mile,
like forced to run a mile for whatever torture that they were doing for the
high schoolers at the time.
Like that was the running that I knew and like associated with.
(24:33):
Now I'm 28. so 2020 rolls
around and at the time even
like 20 we'll start with 2019 my wife and i
were doing a lot of like group fitness classes like 30 people
in a room hot sweaty breathing on each other perfect
for then covid obviously happened well fitness
and like at that time was really important for my wife
(24:55):
and i but it was really hard to figure out
what worked and what was like
fun to do and at the time I had the privilege of working with the forest preserves
and with these beautiful trails and I said one day that I was just going to
start a little bit earlier before class and just gonna run around one of the
(25:18):
trails real fast and it was maybe a mile.
Me a pretty long time but the kind of
connecting it back to the nature and like where we are like it was just
so peaceful and surreal and there was nobody around and
even the random person that i did see like we were far enough away from each
other that wasn't worried about covid and safety and we were outside and i'm
(25:39):
like okay this is something that i can keep doing and so i would either before
work or after work would just start on the gravel trails or on the wood chips or whatever,
or even kind of like long walks, half jogs on these trail systems.
And we get a mile here, maybe two miles there. And it was just so peaceful.
(26:03):
And then coming home, I was unemployed with COVID and wasn't working.
And my wife was still working. And we were in our wonderful one one bedroom,
700 square foot apartment in the city.
And she's working and I'm sitting there like on the couch, like playing the
switch or scrolling on Instagram or Facebook or whatever stupid social media I was at the time.
(26:27):
And she's like, you have to do something. You have to get out of this house.
Like, I don't care what you do at the time, but just do something.
And I'm like, okay. So I left and I would go on a run and that run would turn
into just how long could I run?
Because she doesn't want me in the house when she's working and on calls and
taking meetings and doing all the things that she has to do for work and everything.
(26:48):
And so, all right, so it's going to be an hour run or an hour and a half run.
So it starts out of almost just, well, your wife. Yeah. Bye.
But also, yeah, it's COVID. Group fitness is no longer an option.
When did the first instance of grief happen during this time frame?
So it even happened before I even started running.
(27:11):
So I, my wife and I, from the end of like December of 2019 through June,
July of 2023, lost three of our four remaining grandparents.
From December of 2019 to June, July, June, July of 2023.
(27:32):
So essentially three of our four remaining grandparents had passed during that span.
So it was a very, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, looking back,
it's a very short period for a lot of loss.
My mom's mother, the one who taught me all my swear words, and the Cubs fan
(27:52):
and the Blackhawks fan and the Debbie Cakes she passed um after dealing with,
multiple bouts of cancer and different kinds of things in December of 2019 and,
and that's so that's before COVID hits this
really stuck out to me when you told me your story how you were initially coping
(28:13):
with that in terms of activity can you tell us a little bit about what that
looked like at the time yeah so before running this is before running okay so
running is not in the cards for me at all at this point in time but this was
really also like the first,
loss that i experienced that i like i understood
what was happening i was old enough at this time i was out of college at
(28:35):
this time i knew what this person has
meant to me what this means and like all of the gravity that goes into it and
so this was kind of the first realization i guess you can say and i at the same
time was going through yoga sculpt training which had core power as a,
(28:56):
group fitness very hot very sweaty all the movement all the activity and i didn't
know how to really like cope with what was happening in my life and all the emotions so i just threw
myself into that. And I was...
Taking like three, four of these classes a day. I was continuously doing it.
(29:19):
I was staying at the studio longer.
I was just throwing myself and I don't want to say like punishing my body,
but it was something that I, like I had control over again.
Like I can control this element of my physical exertion, the amount of weights
that I'm picking up, the amount of sweat that's tripping off my body.
Like I felt like I had control over those things in an,
(29:43):
that part of my life i could have control versus the other
part of my life and the grief and the
loss that was happening where i felt like i had no no control
over and you're doing it the way dylan does it which is to the
best all in which is we're gonna give everything that we have to it and we're
gonna commit to it and we're gonna do it and it's the activity which is something
(30:05):
that in the past was my like my safety that's like what i knew to what to do i knew that if i just
distracted myself with doing so many things that the other aspect wouldn't be
there and so if you just if you do three four classes a day for a couple days in a row like you're.
(30:28):
So exhausted you go home and you like fall asleep immediately because
your body is just so drained and you wake up and you can do it again the next
day and you're not thinking all the other emotions
and kind of processing that
is going into it i imagine that you're
not someone that's going to readily reach out for support from a family member
(30:48):
because you were never the one to need that support or because you asked for
that before because of your role so tell us a little bit bit about what that
looked like for you. I mean, you have a wife at home, you have family.
Were you reaching out for support from them in any way? Or were you really mostly
just like, hey, I got this. I'm going to take control of what I can.
(31:09):
I feel like for this first one, it was definitely, I leaned on my wife in aspects
of it, but it was definitely an internal, like Dylan will take care of this
and Dylan will process this themselves.
My cousins and aunts and uncles were obviously there and present for this time.
So for like the funeral and like immediately following
(31:29):
like i had that family support there which was incredibly
nice to have but immediately following like the funeral like everyone departs
again so i definitely felt like i was doing this one kind of i didn't need to
do it on my own but i was choosing to do it on my own it's not going to come
naturally for you to reach out which makes Makes total sense.
(31:52):
So this happens, you're moving through, when does the second instance of grief
happen? And then I think that's when you're running now.
So 2020 start getting into running a little bit, very limited,
very easy, trying to keep it as fun as possible.
2021 rolls around and it's getting into the spring, summer in Chicago and everyone's out and.
(32:15):
More people are out, but it's still COVID times. And so I'm starting to run
even more and more consistently.
And that turns into a virtual half marathon.
So training for something and getting a goal set and really feeling like I can accomplish something.
During that time, my dad's mother, my other grandmother is dealing with health
(32:42):
issues and eventually in 2021 passes away.
This time I am running and I feel
like this it's like terrible to
say but like the second loss was easier than the first loss in
terms of like I knew and had some already
like expectations of what I would be feeling and what
my family was going to be feeling what my father was going to be feeling like
(33:04):
I had some expectations of like what everyone was going to be feeling what everyone
was going to look like and what I would even look like that there was some for
like preconceptions like I and have already experienced loss recently.
So like one more will add to it.
How were your parents coping at this time and how were you supporting them?
It was really hard on my dad.
(33:24):
This was, my dad had both of his, his parents, both of my grandparents were still alive at the time.
And so this was his first family member to lose.
And like, that was a very, he took it very, like, it was very hard and it was very hard on him.
Him and but he tried to put on
(33:45):
like that face of
like dealing with it himself and not
necessarily showing it to my brother i and so
i think it was a very like i
don't think i truly saw like all the emotions and all the feelings and every
once in a while he'll like say something her like chime in with something or
(34:06):
he'll say like get his i'll feel like i like i'm pulling back a layer and like
seeing his like true emotion kind of like come out on how he was dealing with it at the time.
But it felt like it took a lot of time to get there.
Well, Luis, I don't know if you can relate to this, but after my mom passed
in 2019, I remember emotions would come out of nowhere.
(34:28):
And I was very much like you. My way of coping was truly to stay on top of it.
I had very little interest other than therapy and like reaching out to others for support.
But I would be running and randomly just stop and have to start crying or slow
down. And it would just happen out of nowhere.
Definitely can relate in terms of just sort of the your world from under just
(34:50):
being completely shaken, not really having a no longer a grass sort of feeling
like your feet are no longer on the ground.
Of course, everyone copes differently, processes differently.
Right. So it's a very individual process.
But yeah. Right. So Dylan, from the beginning, is responsible.
Responsible and now like your world is shaken and once
and then twice but you already are coming into the second experience
(35:12):
with this already all right so
i'm kind of aware of sort of the waves that
come and flow with it how prepared
did you feel to sort of process or what was your process like
and then yeah are you feeling are you are
you stopping to feel or yeah and i mean it's a
weird I mean loss is hard no
(35:32):
matter no matter what and everyone experiences it
in totally different ways and what I've
what I've learned from this is that that's that's okay
like whatever you're experiencing whatever you're feeling
is true to you and it's
also most likely that there's people at
some point in some time whether it's immediate friends
(35:54):
family are also currently experiencing it or.
Other people can relate and have similar
connections and that that is okay
and whatever your feeling is real and i
remember like there'd be moments where like
a memory would pop up in my head just ran it
would feel like it was random but like a memory would pop up and be
(36:16):
like oh remember when we were together doing
this and she i don't
know she yelled at my cousins for throwing the tennis ball
onto the roof of the garage and was yelling at us and
like screaming at us but like we kept laughing because grandma
was yelling at us or you know
it'd be a random moment where we not even
(36:37):
were at the zoo we were driving to the Lincoln Park Zoo
and we were couldn't figure out how to like get that we try to get like a ticket
to lift up like the parking garage gate or the parking lot gate and for whatever
reason it wasn't opening so we kept getting tickets and then at one point it
just opens up and my cousin just yells floor at grandma,
(36:58):
and like her like I don't even know 10 year old like Honda or whatever she was driving,
and so it was these like weird moments that just like pop up and like whether
it was on a run or just like sitting down one day that these like moments just
like spark and for whatever reason.
That that spark happened.
(37:18):
It's like that moment of like processing and remembering those moments of like
happiness and fondness and love and all the like positive memories that stick to.
How long or whenever they as you were going
through your grief journey or did you at some point realize or
get a hold of sort of the intensity that went with it
(37:41):
and how did these memories when they popped up like altered
your mood it was i mean all anytime you
think when you remember someone who's passed there's so
many emotions that go into it it's such a loaded feeling
because you are thinking of these like beautiful
moments that you have and for whatever reason when you have like
this is the memory that sticks or this is the memory that
(38:03):
pops up it's that love and passion and happiness but
also you there's the like realization
of the sadness the the grief the the
loss the heaviness the gravity the like
roller coaster of emotions that you feel through
all of this and you focus
(38:25):
on the positive and you focus on these memories and these beautiful moments
that you get to keep and share but you also at the same time naturally think
about the grief and the loss of this person and this individual being in your
life and the lack of new memories that you'll be able to create or pursue with this person.
(38:45):
And so it's such a you think
about the positive and you you leave with these
beautiful moments but it's it's always heavier than
just never just why i'm up do you have a memory specifically of a time when
you hit a breaking point i think it was honestly the i distinctly remember when
(39:06):
my first grandmother was this was going back to 2019 but when she was essentially on.
Like in the hospital like we knew that this moment
was going to be happened soon happening soon June I
we were all at the
time like the aunts and uncles were in but being on
(39:27):
whether or not to call in the cousins like
how like do we call in people from
out of town do we call in you know these people
so that they can also be here and my parents
at the moment were deciding not to call
my brother other and i lost it
(39:48):
with them and was like essentially back
if you don't call him right now i'm calling him and
doing it myself i'm like i'm not taking
this like if you won't do it if you won't be the person
to call him and say what's happening then like i'm gonna do it
right now and they remember this moment very differently and if you ask them
(40:11):
like how my brother found out like they'll tell you a very different story but
like i distinctly remember and like it sticks with me because it was such like
a breaking point to such a moment in time that.
And I think it was also me not also knowing how to deal with this moment.
(40:31):
It's a physical feeling almost of like losing it, even if other people don't see it.
It's like gut, not gut-wrenching, but like truly this like almost like anger
was coming up and just like frustration and like knee-jerk reaction was about to happen.
Like I'm doing this. Like if you're not, I am. Like someone's doing it right now.
(40:53):
Hell and i don't care what it is but like we're doing
this mixed off of everything that's happened and
everything that you've told me and everything that's occurred this is
how why was why do you think he
was being protected i think that he
there's i think a million reasons i
think part of it is he's the younger brother he's the baby so like you always
(41:16):
kind of baby the baby a little bit he was away so there was a little bit of
distance that breeding him from the immediate moment he was at school and a
million things going on in his world and so why bring him into,
this moment in time well i think my parents were just trying to protect and
(41:36):
guard his emotions and his feelings and not knowing how he would necessarily react to it all.
But I felt like this was something that he needed to be, if we were all going
to be there and if we were all doing this,
then he needed to have the information at the minimum, be able to make the choice
(41:56):
for himself and allow him to do that as like his,
like give him the courtesy and give him the grace of allowing him to make that choice. Definitely.
Thanking. Your relationship with him was also really different,
right? Really, really close when you were growing up. So, you know,
your understanding and closeness with him is very different than that of like
(42:17):
parents and we're still super close.
And I, as his older brother, always love to say to people like I can say this,
but no one else can because then I'll have to beat you up.
But he is the smartest person in the room and also the dumbest person in the room at all times.
Like, I love him. He's, he's awesome. He's great.
But like, sometimes you just, you just wonder and like, I could say that because
(42:41):
I'm his older brother. But like, that's the connection that we have.
I want to jump into more the running coming into the third grief instance,
because here you are, you're really just starting out.
Now you're starting, oh, I can do this month, I can do that much.
All the time, it's a solace for you. And it sounds like a coping mechanism of sorts.
So bring us into, I guess we're cutting into 2022 now, which was just two years ago.
(43:06):
So 2021, I did my first virtual, 2022 doing the second virtual,
and then 2022 into 2023 decided that, well, I've done two half marathons at this point.
If you add those together, that equals one full marathon.
And so I convinced, it wasn't hard, but I convinced my best friend to do the
(43:29):
Disney Dopey Challenge with me.
Dylan math. Two halves equal a full. Yeah, one half plus one half equals one. We're doing great here.
But the Disney marathon was in January of 2023.
And so all of 2022 was spent essentially training for this large feat.
(43:52):
And it was a 5k on Thursday, a 10k on Friday, a half marathon on Saturday,
and then a full marathon on Sunday.
Day so we we jumped into it i said we're gonna do it we're gonna we're gonna
go all the way and we had a had a plan to like the 5k we were gonna do a nice
jog the 10k and a half we were gonna,
(44:12):
jog run most of it and then walk some of it so we were gonna pace ourselves for the marathon
and then the marathon our only goal it wasn't for time it was just to finish
like we We had like a time in mind, but like it was just across the finish line
saying that we accomplished this whole feat.
So 2022 was spent really like diving into running and it was also diving into
(44:39):
running and the end of summer and into like fall and into winter.
And so like I feel like if you're running in Chicago in winter,
like you have to really want that. Like you've got to commit to that.
And I love winter running. I don't know how I feel about it.
I'm okay with the cold. The cold weather is something I can handle,
but it was like the ice and the slush that I'm like, I'm not running on these days.
(45:00):
Like this is, no, I'm not worried. I can't worry about like injuring myself
or slipping on ice, but like cold weather, no problem.
And now I was joking the other day as we had our beautiful weather over the
weekend and the lakefront path is packed again with people.
I was joking. I was like I know that I don't own the lakefront path like it's
(45:23):
not Dylan's lakefront path but like in winter time like,
people on it like it is empty in comparison and now there's you have groups
of 15 20 people all running together and i'm like i know it's not mine but i
feel a sense of pride being like.
I did this when none of y'all were out here
(45:43):
and so like even
like that alone is so silly to think about because like i would
have never done a winter run let alone a summer run
a couple years ago but coming into
2022 and or 2022 into 2023
decided that this was going to do a marathon and then did that in january and
(46:04):
then for chicago was then going to come up in october and decided to do the
chicago marathon in october so i was going to go from january have a nice eight nine nine,
10 months to train for Chicago again,
and then get back, back into it.
And in the middle of that, that's when, um.
(46:26):
That's when my wife's grandmother or essentially our third grandparent,
who was experiencing a lot of health issues as well, eventually passed in June, July.
And I felt
like at this time be like at
this point I was into running like I was training I was running and
(46:48):
being able to go on
a run in the like early mornings by
myself to be able to like clear my head or or not think about anything to do
kind of like process all the emotions that I was Whether it was listening to
a podcast or turning on just sound in the background or feeling the music or turning on the...
(47:14):
Heavy beat music or turning on the sab like cry
in the corner music like i was able to do all of
that on your support
system is your movement and those activities you're
able to do in your within your movement it's almost like it
activity becomes your best friend in a way right like
i mean your wife is coping in her own way i'm sure
(47:37):
you're grieving too so how are you feeling because you're
you're the caretaker in a way so yeah and
this the third one was it was
so it was a very different grieving process because my
wife we all say it so it's not it's no one's surprise my my wife was the favorite
like she was the favorite grandchild like we all know it like we can move on
(48:01):
past that point like we all accepted it great so her grieving process was totally
different because of how close her and her grandmother were,
but because she was also so close, like I was also so close to her and people would joke with us.
They're like, okay, Dylan, like we know like Ashley's the favorite and all,
but like, where are you like in this?
(48:21):
And I'm like, I'm, I feel like I'm pretty up there because like we would call
her Bubby and she would send like at school, she would send me an individual like Halloween card,
Valentine's day card, like to my fraternity house so people
would be joking they're like dylan you have mail from your grandma i'm like well
she's kind of my grandma but she's also technically like
not my grandma and so
(48:44):
like we were also super close but it was a very hard because my
wife is grieving for her bubby her
grieving but to a different extent
and different emotions but i also feel the guilt
of trying to support my wife and who's going
through this but also then feel guilty for potentially feeling these
(49:05):
emotions that i'm grieving through but
also having the love and the kindness of the support and all of those emotions
just like rolled into one and so i was supporting my wife and i was talking
to my friend about it and talking about all these emotions and in therapy i'm as well talking to
(49:28):
a therapist about it, and all these rollercoaster of emotions of how do you
grieve for someone that you're so close to, but you're also...
Slightly removed a little bit from the situation yeah that
i can imagine the guilt of i
feel these things but i don't feel like i can share that because
(49:50):
you're feeling more or am i
no i mean i don't want to like it's hard
because like i never want to like compare like my
guilt or not guilt but my grief or like someone's
grief in the family because everyone feels such different
things but it was really hard on my wife
(50:11):
it was really hard on her mom like they like i
said like this woman bubby was with us
literally like every sunday dinner every tuesday thursday
friday sometimes like all of these dinners
she would when ashley was growing up she
would pick her up from like school and like take care of her
for the day and like all of
(50:33):
the this is why i say she's a a favorite like she actually was
the first grandchild and so like there was this
connection that they had together and love that
they shared and you we would joke that like bubby loved her children but she
was like put on this earth for her grandchildren like that was who she was here
for and so it was really hard for all the grandchildren and it would come at different times.
(50:59):
And, you know, I'd find my wife or her sister or cousins or anyone just dealing
with the emotions and working through whatever they were feeling at the time. And, you know.
My wife got a tattoo in honor of her after she passed in order to kind of really commemorate her.
So it's never like I never want to compare what I was feeling to my wife or to her family members.
(51:27):
But whenever you're close to someone, it's how did you both work together,
right? Because you're going through your grieving process.
You experienced these losses even two years back.
And so you realize the intensity of the losses can vary, right?
And there's a difference between each loss also depending on the connection
that you share with the person.
But how did then did you and her work together to move together as a unit, right?
(51:52):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we, I think we did some things together and some things apart.
And that was what really was working for us and doesn't work for everyone,
but it was working for us in the sense that we were able to talk about,
you know, the good, the bad, the memories all
the things together the things that we shared together the things
(52:13):
that we loved and hated and fun memories and all those things together but also
able to separate and have our alone time to process what was happening and whether
that was me going on a run or we.
Were both talking to like our respective therapists at the time and like having
(52:36):
Having moments for us to cross us to like individuality as well,
I think really is what set us up for being able to come together and move forward
with what we needed to do as a unit and as a couple and as a household.
You have an understanding of one another. It sounds like ways of coping, which is really cool.
(52:58):
Like it sounds like there was a lot of respect there of like,
hey, if I need to go out on my run, like you understand and that's great.
I mean, it's very clear movement has been a huge part of your process,
but I also want to get into the message that you really wanted to touch on,
which was how therapy played a part in it.
So tell us a little bit about how therapy added to your plethora of coping mechanisms.
(53:23):
Yeah, movement has always been something that, you know, starting with the first
loss that I threw myself into and didn't really know how to...
Loss and so I was just like I know movement and I know activity so that's what
I'm going to do and as the auto just kicked in and as time went on through these
through these losses and finding running like that became my way to regulate
(53:48):
movement and have plans and have goals and have.
These times where I knew that I would be running in
times where I was able to kind of I didn't have
to go on you know didn't have to run a marathon every single
day in order to process things because i was working through the
runs and then simultaneously i it
(54:09):
took me a while and i'll admit it took me a while because for a long time i
thought that a therapist was there for someone who experienced like true trauma
and you see it on like the media and outlets of like you know you watch like
svu and you hear of like all the horrors and all the negatives in the news and
you're like Like, that's what trauma is.
That is what something terrible has happened to these people.
(54:33):
And I never thought that that was me. I just never thought that that was something
that I needed to pursue or needed to cope with or deal with.
I just never thought that that was something that was needed.
And it took me a while and a lot of my wife and friends kind of just chipping
away, being like, I think it would be beneficial for you.
(54:54):
Or i think talk into it like know
every detail of your life and your friends and your support system
that you naturally have that friends and family would be a
benefit and it took six months to
a year probably of small little moment like okay like i'm ready for for this
(55:15):
and i feel like that was something that was really important was that i had
to be ready for it it It wasn't something that I could rush into or force.
It was something that I had to want to do.
And I've been talking to my therapist, my lovely therapist, for a year,
(55:35):
year and a half. I don't even know at this point.
But I've never said that I've experienced these, like, the worst things on the planet.
But I have experienced life, and I've experienced loss,
and I've experienced hardships and I've experienced relationships and
I've experienced all these emotions that I've talked
(55:57):
about today and all things are things and work through with my therapist and
that things myself assess and deal with my own emotions and be able to even
and just like under and my emotions at a higher level.
(56:19):
Been able to deeper relationships and focus on relationships
whether it's with my whether it's with
my brother or friends and really create
a deeper connection with them and a better understanding of what we all need
together and I've been able to just focus on it's selfish but it's like this
(56:39):
person is there for me like this person is here to help me deal through all of the
emotions that I feel, all the connections and relationships that I feel to better myself.
And so it's, you know, you joke about it, but it's like 1% better every day.
And that's what I feel like I've been able to really, really start focusing
(57:01):
on is not only my physical health and, you know, going on these runs and staying active and staying,
doing mobility and yoga and like all of those things, but also focusing on like
my mental health and who I am and just being a better person every day.
And so I say that the Dylan today is the best Dylan that he's been.
(57:24):
And not because necessarily I can run a marathon or like do any of that,
which sure, great, I can.
But because I feel stronger than I have ever been.
And it's because I feel stronger in processing emotions, talking about emotions,
dealing with emotions, even talking about and like doing something like this
(57:44):
was something that Dylan three years ago, four years ago would never have even thought about doing.
You like have sought support when that's really not something that comes naturally to you.
It sounds like a huge mode of development for you of like, just say like,
hey, I want to try this out. I'm ready for this.
Do you have a message you want to send to people who are experiencing grief? Yeah, I think...
(58:08):
Me and i kind of touched on it briefly
is that grief looks different for every single person
and the emotions that go along with it the highs the lows the heaviness the
weight of it the anger the sadness the happiness whatever feeling is happening is true is who is real
(58:32):
there's the we oftentimes
like associating guilt with it but your
emotions and the moments you're feeling are real and the
connections that you have with these people or had with these
people that were experiencing loss are real
and all those moments are true and the
(58:52):
process to work through that is
looks different for every person i have
found solace in going on runs and having some time to process whatever emotion
i'm feeling through throughout that run and sometimes that changes halfway through
the run and i stop what i'm doing and i'm like this is stupid i don't want to
listen to this music anymore i need something totally different i need to change
(59:15):
whatever is happening And that's also okay.
Like that moment is also true and real.
And for anyone that is going through loss or has gone through loss or will eventually
go through loss, it's hard.
And there's no way around that. but there
(59:35):
are support systems there are people in your life
there are therapists out
there there's family there's connections there's
someone who has probably experienced what you are feeling at some point and
there's people out there that will also never experience what you're feeling
(59:55):
and that's all real well thank you thanks for sharing all this i think this
is relatable for a lot of people.
I know I've heard people say things like, people won't understand until they've
experienced grief themselves.
And so I think a lot of people feel alone in that process.
And I think your story is really just going to help people feel not alone,
(01:00:16):
you know, feel like, oh, I can cope alone, but I can also reach out for help,
even if it is just from a therapist, because I'm not ready to reach out to my,
you know, whoever in the family.
So yeah, thank you. Is there anything you want to add? No, absolutely.
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for walking us through your process,
sharing your insight and perspective and what you've learned.
Music.
Welcome to Raw Runners Podcast, where runners share their most adverse experiences
and the ebbs and flows of their healing processes, all while eating really good food.
(00:32):
High five ramen no all right in the
fulton are we recording oh perfect all right well we're unlimited time i could
talk about food all day i think we're talking about food because usually we
have food here but we don't this morning because bringing high five ramen in
at six in the morning could ruin dylan's work day i don't know if that's yeah
the vibe and louise's work Workday?
(00:53):
Yes, workday. And we're VIP access before hoping to the public where we're at.
So we are at my work, which is an amazing thing to say.
We are currently in the wild reef habitat or outside the wild reef habitat at the Shedd Aquarium.
I am privileged and blessed to work on our animal engagement team as an animal
(01:16):
trainer here at the Shedd Aquarium.
And so this is one of my favorite habitats
just because of how surreal it is
it feels you really do like at least i feel like you're always transported into
another world and especially being here and like in chicago this is just like
such a hidden gem and especially in the mornings when no one else is here like
(01:38):
the sound of the water and the ripples on the floor is just.
Just memorizing.
I could sit here for hours.
It's pretty amazing, I'm not going to lie. It's beautiful. Do you ever just,
be looking at it and then just like shed a tear because i feel like that you
know we haven't gotten to that moment but it definitely feels like the level
(02:01):
of like falling asleep like getting just like holy just like calm zen moment
and just i mentioned this a second ago but i'm like i.
Work with like a lot of reptiles and birds and so.
I'm bringing some of the animals and just like out here
and letting them wander and see the sharks and see
the fish and having that moment and it's
(02:23):
just so peaceful i can only imagine do
you ever notice well what do you what's your role here first of
all i am an animal trainer on our animal
engagement and interpretation team so i my team
is responsible for the care the husbandry of
a plethora of different species and our
team is our interpreters we go out
(02:46):
to the floor we bring the shed aquarium to people whether it's
just kind of pop-up kind of little mini moments
or we work with our learning department to go
to schools or to we've gone to hospitals
and really bring these connections and
these experiences to people so doing kind of like
pop-up experiences as well so that people can
(03:07):
see what a snake is like up close or
what a tortoise is up close or what a bird really is
up close is a really cool special
moment i remember when i was
younger it was the iguana guy the iguana
guy is like just something that's popping up for me in my memory of like we
were at a zoo or something and like the iguana guy comes out i mean we have
(03:30):
an iguana which is he's pretty amazing so like that i mean kind of this me but
i guess not totally me because we have some others you're not just the Just
the iguana guy. Not just the iguana guy. Yeah, for sure.
Luis, do you have any early memories of, do you have a version of iguana guy memories?
I think I, I don't know. I think definitely when I visited the shed before the penguin exhibit.
(03:54):
And so the people that were with the treats and kind of facilitating that.
And that's kind of my memory.
I guess, is that the equivalent? Is that sort of.
I mean, we, I mean, a little bit. that we work on the day-to-day training of our animals.
Our animals are animals. We have two beautiful macaws that we have worked with
(04:15):
for years and are capable of bringing a bird that does flights and encounters
into the middle of the aquarium for people to see.
You think about it with like your dogs or cats at home, like taking them to
the vet and then like care that requires going into an animal like that.
Well, what about, you know, different birds or different reptiles?
(04:37):
That's the things that I personally work on, but we do that.
Other teams do that for every single animal here.
So the penguins, the dolphins, the belugas, the sea lions, the fish,
the sharks, all of the animals here.
All of those moments are happening every single day, 365 day,
weekends, holidays, all of that work is being put into it. Wow.
(05:01):
It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. You used to come here with your dad, right?
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that because you're here now.
My family, well, I have always loved wildlife and animals. and I knew from a
super early age that I wanted to work with animals in some capacity or another.
(05:25):
And when I was really, really little, my dad and like, didn't matter what kind
of weather it was, if he had a day off, we'd be going to, at the time it was
the Cleveland Zoo and Cleveland Parks.
And then when we moved back to Chicago, it was the Shedd Aquarium.
It was the Brookfield Zoo.
My grandparents were members of the Lincoln Park Zoo.
So we were hitting up all of the museums, all of the zoos.
(05:50):
We were members here, to the field, to the Museum of Science and Industry.
All of the major science centers, all of the major zoos and aquariums here in
the city were just places that we would go.
No, probably because I always wanted to be there and always loved to see the
animals and always had such a love and passion growing up for all of these creatures
(06:15):
that it was something that we just did.
We just kept coming year after year, coming back.
Did you in that time when you were going with your family, visiting these different
places, have a particular favorite in mind?
Oh, I was always biased towards the big cats, which we do not have here,
but that's OK. Okay, but there was something about just the grace,
(06:38):
the power, tigers and the lions of the leopard. Incredible animals.
I don't know, there was something mystical about them and just memorizing and beautiful.
And also they were huge and hearing the lions roar and everything just drew me in.
(07:00):
And so that was definitely one of the pieces to it, for sure.
But it's always been amazing to me in the presence of these animals.
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with that. The topic today is something that some
people at our age haven't really
been through yet, where some people are starting to experience grief.
And Luis and I have both experienced grief in the past five years.
(07:23):
And today is we're tying grief into your, just like your whole journey.
So I really want to set it up for kind of our listeners to learn about the characters
in your life growing up that were important to you.
And, you know, a little bit about your family dynamic growing up and some of
those experiences. experiences?
Yeah. So, I mean, we, I grew up, I had my, it was my mom, my dad,
(07:50):
my younger brother and myself.
And so it was the four of us, my brother and I have always been super close,
very, he's three years younger than I am almost to the day.
And we always grew up super close doing all tons of things together.
And as I mentioned, we, for the first couple of years of my life,
we lived in Cleveland, and then moved back to Chicago because all of our family was here in Chicago.
(08:16):
So my grandparents, my aunts, my uncles, my parents, best friends,
all were here in Chicago.
So it was a very, they wanted to come back. And they definitely knew that they
wanted to raise their two boys here in Chicago with also all of the support
of their family and their friends.
So growing up, it was a very, like, you saw your grandparents,
(08:38):
you were with your aunts and uncles and cousins, and you would do weekends here
with this aunt and weekends there with that grandparent.
And we just grew up with that kind of doing holidays together.
And, you know, the major holidays together and doing the minor holidays together.
And then when I was introduced and met my time girlfriend and then eventually
(09:05):
wife, her grandmother was just always around.
So she was always it was like every Sunday night, sometimes even more than that. It was like all.
Sometimes two, three, four times a week. She was always going to be there,
always going to be at dinner.
So both myself and my now wife, Ashley, we just always had our grandparents
(09:28):
around, which we were super fortunate about.
I mentioned that my grandmother was a member of the Lincoln Park Zoo,
so we would always be at the Lincoln Park Zoo together.
My grandparents are the ones that introduced me
to sports or the love of sports also to
my first swear words were were learned from my grandmother which one my mom's
(09:53):
mom her passion we'll say and love of chicago sports teams specifically the
cubs and the blackhawks also then equaled to a frustration
with the Cubs and Blackhawks.
So I have distinct memories of her swearing at the TV and yelling.
(10:13):
So I grew up being a true Chicago sports fan of the Cubs,
the Blackhawks, and the Bulls were like my Chicago teams that just grandma and
grandpa or because grandma was rooting for the
teams like these were this was my team as well
so really really being blessed and
(10:35):
fortunate enough to also have like that connection and that
love and that shared passion with them well they kind of fostered that but having
that kind of same energy and love was a really fun way to grandma always had
the game on or grandpa always had one of the games on and so sitting down with
them and watching one of those games.
(10:57):
Even though they didn't always go well, those were really still special moments, for sure.
Going to the zoo, watching games together, it just sounds like you were just
really surrounded by family early on. And that's really cool.
Do you have any specific memories with your grandma that you can just very distinctly remember?
(11:20):
My one grandmother was a diabetic. And so she always had little like jars of
candy and like chocolates around and she would always like offer them.
She had like classic like grandma like Twinkies ho-hos and like Debbie cakes
and like all of those things like always in her fridge.
And my mom was like no you're not gonna eat those when like at home but like
(11:43):
you go to grandma's house like you can get the good stuff kind of vibe and then
my grand other grandma and grandpa.
They always had ice cream in the house and my grandfather still to this day
like eats like he's a five-year-old sometimes but he they always had a ton of
ice cream in the house and And there was one point,
(12:04):
my grandmother was ahead of her time on just about everything.
A huge feminist, believed in.
She was a Chicago public school principal, an incredible, incredible woman.
And she went or heard at one point of an ice cream diet where you only eat ice
cream for your entire diet.
(12:26):
And in the morning was a coffee ice cream. And then for lunch was a vanilla.
Vanilla and then for like dinner, you can do like a more savory,
like decadent ice cream.
And my dad to this day, he's like, I lasted two days before I was just like
violently sick and just too much ice cream.
But she heard it on the radio or on the news or in a book that she read that
(12:50):
that was like the diet you had to try.
I mean, I don't even know, 80s? 90s? I feel like that's when all the like weird
crash diets started coming up was like in the 80s, 90s, they were like,
yeah, just eat potatoes.
And that's, you know. How long did the dieting last?
Literally like two days. Two days, okay. It was literally like a weekend.
(13:11):
I tried it. And my grandma was like pushing it hard.
But it was like a two day, maybe three days. And by that point,
they're like, we need some something else, like some chicken,
some like vegetables, some like a potato, even just like give me something other
than just like this ice cream.
I don't know why ice cream was
or they thought that ice cream was going to like be the next new phase.
(13:35):
Kyle's like definitely Candyland play or something. Oh, my God.
You know, just so mentally and all of the light quintessential like sweets of
like grandparents. That's what we had.
So your childhood just sounds like there's a lot of love, which I always appreciate.
I do want to get a little bit into your experience with your parents,
(13:57):
your role coming through as kind of like a supporter of the family.
So my father was
born with a brittle bone disease so my dad was born with a brittle bone disease
called osteogenesis imperfecta he has type 1 which is the least severe of the
diseases and so when i was born
(14:17):
on chance of also receiving it i did not receive it but my brother did,
receive it and so that's part of the reason why we've always been so close is
that growing up I would see him essentially like he would go to Shriners Hospital,
get treatments three, four times a year, depending on the year.
And so like roughhousing with your younger brother, like wasn't a thing because
(14:40):
like I could actually like break one of his bones.
He, when you just look at him today, or when you look at my dad,
like you can't tell just by on like the outside that there is anything that
they would like be dealing with in this kind of capacity.
But it really kind of growing up forced me a lot of the times to take on a role.
(15:04):
And my mom and parents have talked about it of like almost sometimes like being
that like third parent to my brother, just because he needed.
There was times where he broke his femur
or he had a broken arm or things like that
and the amount of attention that that requires especially
being so young is much higher than the older
brother and so for that kind of regard I remember
(15:27):
like even like middle school high school like I would
wake up by myself make sure all my homework was done make sure I had something
for breakfast make make sure you know the lunch was packed if I was bringing
lunch that day and make sure that you know I was the one getting to the buff
on time so it's like all of those like small things that.
(15:48):
I just had to do it because that was what needed to
do the mornings kind of became my like Dylan
time which was kind of nice at the time but that's
part of the reason why I kind of took on
a lot of the responsibilities or at least solo responsibilities and
then a time also assisting with you know extra chores
(16:08):
around the house or bringing up the laundry or bringing you know the groceries
putting the groceries away um all the kind of extra small task around the house
my dad worked in retail so there was a lot of either like early mornings or
late nights or just like long hours.
So my mom really relied on me to do a lot of the household tasks and also just,
(16:34):
taking care of myself at the same time as a 13-year-old, 14-year-old, 15-year-old, which...
Part of the reason why like I felt like
I grew up quickly is kind of the idea with
that and you know people would always give you the compliment of being so mature
and like being so level-headed and being so responsible but all those reasons
(16:58):
were there because of everything that was going on so it was a very there was
definitely a dynamic at play at that.
Did your father need any particular support? What did it look like for him and
what kind of care did your father need?
Yeah, I definitely feel when my dad, he would like stub a toe and he would most
(17:19):
likely break one of those toes.
And so it wasn't always the fear of injuries, but my mom would definitely assist in his care.
And he definitely kind of put his needs aside
because he wanted to make sure that he was working and providing
for the family and making sure that he was doing the best that
he can in that regard but then my mom
(17:40):
would then make sure my brother was a lot of the times like taken care of there's
more of a i would say a make sure that dylan is okay good you're okay great
moving on to whatever million other things were as you know as a mom of two kids and.
Wife then working and all those
(18:01):
things like there's so many other things to worry
about and deal about dylan was dylan's got
it how what was dylan's thought process at this time
it's a lot of responsibility right like you are aware that you're there's
this condition with your dad you know this condition with your your
brother as well and so dylan is also forced to kind of grow up fast as you said
(18:21):
you know i feel like i haven't even like really been able to like at the time
it was just like another day it was just another tuesday it was just another
friday whatever it was and I feel like it's taken me,
you know, 10 years.
Talking also like talking with a therapist to like really look back on all of
(18:41):
those moments and all that upbringing to like realize what I was doing at the time.
What I was doing was I knew that I received that attention when I succeeded at something.
So I was the kid who was getting the straight A's and I'm going to bring the
report card home. And like, that was something that we could celebrate together.
(19:02):
Or I was the kid that did the million into
extra tasks always growing up I
always look back at high school I'm like I have no idea how I did all the
things that I did I would wake up I would do an extra half
period before class even started and then
I would school would end and I would stay at school to like
get all my homework done and do a club here and then a club there and
(19:24):
then I would do a rehearsal for a show and then
after that rehearsal I'd have dinner and then in between dinner I'd then go
to another rehearsal so like my day was essentially like a school started at
7 30 and i'd get home at like 8 39 o'clock wow in bed by 10 o'clock to then
wake up and do it all over again and so i feel like it was,
(19:46):
i can if i can succeed at all of those things that's where i'll get the recognition
and the feedback and the dylan is solid you've been a solid figure it sounds
like so it's the beginning,
and so he's okay great we
can focus on this and this and then
(20:06):
even getting through like you're you're staying busy like you're really oh yeah
is it coming from just a busy bodiedness out of character or did you feel was
was there kind of this like I want to succeed in more than just this oh I definitely
feel like there was the need to succeed at.
Everything. Like I wanted to be good to the best at all of these things.
(20:32):
And I wanted to be a good friend and I wanted to support my friends and my schoolmates
and my peers and my teachers and my when I did theater, like my show and like my cast,
like I wanted to support all of these people
and so that they could see
also like it's not just not just
(20:55):
at home but all of my friends all of my peers all my teachers could
also see what i am doing it's
almost like you're it's your character yeah right like
if you were to like look at it and like the sense of like you're watching a movie like
you would have been like that character the one
that people can really depend pen on to be okay and
to be there for them if needed it's like you really took
(21:17):
that on and wanted to just do it to the best of your ability
which is really commendable were you running at this
time when you were young no right so at this time i mean i didn't have any time
for that like i my you didn't have time no yeah what it was just if i stayed
busy if i like always had something Like if I wasn't doing something,
(21:41):
like I was sleeping towards like my late junior into senior year,
like 10, 1030 rolled around.
And if ever homework wasn't done, I'd try to wake up in the next morning to
get it before getting onto the bus.
And then whatever wasn't done by that point, like that was it.
Like I accepted the fate of the responsibilities of that because I just didn't
(22:02):
have the time and the ability to not.
Dylan was resting, Dylan was probably coming to a point of being overwhelmed
by things that were sort of piling up, sort of this big sense of responsibility
was probably like already starting to more,
you're assimilating that a little bit more, right? It sounds like you were going
into a different stage of life.
(22:23):
And so when I got, every time I got sick, it always felt like my body was just
being like, Dylan, too much.
You need to pull it back a little bit. Like you need to slow it down.
You need to get some sleep. You need to rest. We will make you rest.
I'm like, you're, you're sitting down for a minute.
And like, that was always like, okay, okay, I'm gonna take a couple days and
like restart and always felt, I mean, no one, getting sick is never fun.
(22:48):
But it was always just like that kind of mentality.
Part of the reason why we moved back to Chicago was for the family support for
my dad and for my brother and for my mom's friends and dad's friends that were
here in Chicago to have that third party support for our family.
(23:08):
And obviously family is what gives you that support.
So that's one of the reasons why we were here in Chicago was for all of that.
How old were you when you moved to Chicago?
We were just four. So I was I was pretty young. And so it was a very like early
on process that we, at least my parents knew, I didn't know at this time,
my parents knew that this was where the support was going to come from for our family.
(23:30):
The extended family, you know, I'm sure added like such a great amount of support,
but on a day to day, it's you and my brother, dad. So like that's the day to day grind.
I'm going to jump a little far ahead. I really want to get into kind of 2020,
2021 and how running even started for you.
(23:51):
I mean, I didn't grow up running either, so I can relate to you in that way.
But a lot of people, they they grow up and they already were running track.
When did Dylan wake up and was like, hey, I think I'm going to I'm going to
just run because, you know, you have like three races this year. Yeah. Just, yeah.
From, I always joke, I'm like, looking back, like if you told like high school,
(24:11):
college Dylan, like you were going to be a runner, like I would laugh in your face.
Like that was, there was no chance, like only the craziest of people did that.
Before 2020, the most I ever ran was like the high school mile,
like forced to run a mile for whatever torture that they were doing for the
high schoolers at the time.
Like that was the running that I knew and like associated with.
(24:33):
Now I'm 28. so 2020 rolls
around and at the time even
like 20 we'll start with 2019 my wife and i
were doing a lot of like group fitness classes like 30 people
in a room hot sweaty breathing on each other perfect
for then covid obviously happened well fitness
and like at that time was really important for my wife
(24:55):
and i but it was really hard to figure out
what worked and what was like
fun to do and at the time I had the privilege of working with the forest preserves
and with these beautiful trails and I said one day that I was just going to
start a little bit earlier before class and just gonna run around one of the
(25:18):
trails real fast and it was maybe a mile.
Me a pretty long time but the kind of
connecting it back to the nature and like where we are like it was just
so peaceful and surreal and there was nobody around and
even the random person that i did see like we were far enough away from each
other that wasn't worried about covid and safety and we were outside and i'm
(25:39):
like okay this is something that i can keep doing and so i would either before
work or after work would just start on the gravel trails or on the wood chips or whatever,
or even kind of like long walks, half jogs on these trail systems.
And we get a mile here, maybe two miles there. And it was just so peaceful.
(26:03):
And then coming home, I was unemployed with COVID and wasn't working.
And my wife was still working. And we were in our wonderful one one bedroom,
700 square foot apartment in the city.
And she's working and I'm sitting there like on the couch, like playing the
switch or scrolling on Instagram or Facebook or whatever stupid social media I was at the time.
(26:27):
And she's like, you have to do something. You have to get out of this house.
Like, I don't care what you do at the time, but just do something.
And I'm like, okay. So I left and I would go on a run and that run would turn
into just how long could I run?
Because she doesn't want me in the house when she's working and on calls and
taking meetings and doing all the things that she has to do for work and everything.
(26:48):
And so, all right, so it's going to be an hour run or an hour and a half run.
So it starts out of almost just, well, your wife. Yeah. Bye.
But also, yeah, it's COVID. Group fitness is no longer an option.
When did the first instance of grief happen during this time frame?
So it even happened before I even started running.
(27:11):
So I, my wife and I, from the end of like December of 2019 through June,
July of 2023, lost three of our four remaining grandparents.
From December of 2019 to June, July, June, July of 2023.
(27:32):
So essentially three of our four remaining grandparents had passed during that span.
So it was a very, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, looking back,
it's a very short period for a lot of loss.
My mom's mother, the one who taught me all my swear words, and the Cubs fan
(27:52):
and the Blackhawks fan and the Debbie Cakes she passed um after dealing with,
multiple bouts of cancer and different kinds of things in December of 2019 and,
and that's so that's before COVID hits this
really stuck out to me when you told me your story how you were initially coping
(28:13):
with that in terms of activity can you tell us a little bit about what that
looked like at the time yeah so before running this is before running okay so
running is not in the cards for me at all at this point in time but this was
really also like the first,
loss that i experienced that i like i understood
what was happening i was old enough at this time i was out of college at
(28:35):
this time i knew what this person has
meant to me what this means and like all of the gravity that goes into it and
so this was kind of the first realization i guess you can say and i at the same
time was going through yoga sculpt training which had core power as a,
(28:56):
group fitness very hot very sweaty all the movement all the activity and i didn't
know how to really like cope with what was happening in my life and all the emotions so i just threw
myself into that. And I was...
Taking like three, four of these classes a day. I was continuously doing it.
(29:19):
I was staying at the studio longer.
I was just throwing myself and I don't want to say like punishing my body,
but it was something that I, like I had control over again.
Like I can control this element of my physical exertion, the amount of weights
that I'm picking up, the amount of sweat that's tripping off my body.
Like I felt like I had control over those things in an,
(29:43):
that part of my life i could have control versus the other
part of my life and the grief and the
loss that was happening where i felt like i had no no control
over and you're doing it the way dylan does it which is to the
best all in which is we're gonna give everything that we have to it and we're
gonna commit to it and we're gonna do it and it's the activity which is something
(30:05):
that in the past was my like my safety that's like what i knew to what to do i knew that if i just
distracted myself with doing so many things that the other aspect wouldn't be
there and so if you just if you do three four classes a day for a couple days in a row like you're.
(30:28):
So exhausted you go home and you like fall asleep immediately because
your body is just so drained and you wake up and you can do it again the next
day and you're not thinking all the other emotions
and kind of processing that
is going into it i imagine that you're
not someone that's going to readily reach out for support from a family member
(30:48):
because you were never the one to need that support or because you asked for
that before because of your role so tell us a little bit bit about what that
looked like for you. I mean, you have a wife at home, you have family.
Were you reaching out for support from them in any way? Or were you really mostly
just like, hey, I got this. I'm going to take control of what I can.
(31:09):
I feel like for this first one, it was definitely, I leaned on my wife in aspects
of it, but it was definitely an internal, like Dylan will take care of this
and Dylan will process this themselves.
My cousins and aunts and uncles were obviously there and present for this time.
So for like the funeral and like immediately following
(31:29):
like i had that family support there which was incredibly
nice to have but immediately following like the funeral like everyone departs
again so i definitely felt like i was doing this one kind of i didn't need to
do it on my own but i was choosing to do it on my own it's not going to come
naturally for you to reach out which makes Makes total sense.
(31:52):
So this happens, you're moving through, when does the second instance of grief
happen? And then I think that's when you're running now.
So 2020 start getting into running a little bit, very limited,
very easy, trying to keep it as fun as possible.
2021 rolls around and it's getting into the spring, summer in Chicago and everyone's out and.
(32:15):
More people are out, but it's still COVID times. And so I'm starting to run
even more and more consistently.
And that turns into a virtual half marathon.
So training for something and getting a goal set and really feeling like I can accomplish something.
During that time, my dad's mother, my other grandmother is dealing with health
(32:42):
issues and eventually in 2021 passes away.
This time I am running and I feel
like this it's like terrible to
say but like the second loss was easier than the first loss in
terms of like I knew and had some already
like expectations of what I would be feeling and what
my family was going to be feeling what my father was going to be feeling like
(33:04):
I had some expectations of like what everyone was going to be feeling what everyone
was going to look like and what I would even look like that there was some for
like preconceptions like I and have already experienced loss recently.
So like one more will add to it.
How were your parents coping at this time and how were you supporting them?
It was really hard on my dad.
(33:24):
This was, my dad had both of his, his parents, both of my grandparents were still alive at the time.
And so this was his first family member to lose.
And like, that was a very, he took it very, like, it was very hard and it was very hard on him.
Him and but he tried to put on
(33:45):
like that face of
like dealing with it himself and not
necessarily showing it to my brother i and so
i think it was a very like i
don't think i truly saw like all the emotions and all the feelings and every
once in a while he'll like say something her like chime in with something or
(34:06):
he'll say like get his i'll feel like i like i'm pulling back a layer and like
seeing his like true emotion kind of like come out on how he was dealing with it at the time.
But it felt like it took a lot of time to get there.
Well, Luis, I don't know if you can relate to this, but after my mom passed
in 2019, I remember emotions would come out of nowhere.
(34:28):
And I was very much like you. My way of coping was truly to stay on top of it.
I had very little interest other than therapy and like reaching out to others for support.
But I would be running and randomly just stop and have to start crying or slow
down. And it would just happen out of nowhere.
Definitely can relate in terms of just sort of the your world from under just
(34:50):
being completely shaken, not really having a no longer a grass sort of feeling
like your feet are no longer on the ground.
Of course, everyone copes differently, processes differently.
Right. So it's a very individual process.
But yeah. Right. So Dylan, from the beginning, is responsible.
Responsible and now like your world is shaken and once
and then twice but you already are coming into the second experience
(35:12):
with this already all right so
i'm kind of aware of sort of the waves that
come and flow with it how prepared
did you feel to sort of process or what was your process like
and then yeah are you feeling are you are
you stopping to feel or yeah and i mean it's a
weird I mean loss is hard no
(35:32):
matter no matter what and everyone experiences it
in totally different ways and what I've
what I've learned from this is that that's that's okay
like whatever you're experiencing whatever you're feeling
is true to you and it's
also most likely that there's people at
some point in some time whether it's immediate friends
(35:54):
family are also currently experiencing it or.
Other people can relate and have similar
connections and that that is okay
and whatever your feeling is real and i
remember like there'd be moments where like
a memory would pop up in my head just ran it
would feel like it was random but like a memory would pop up and be
(36:16):
like oh remember when we were together doing
this and she i don't
know she yelled at my cousins for throwing the tennis ball
onto the roof of the garage and was yelling at us and
like screaming at us but like we kept laughing because grandma
was yelling at us or you know
it'd be a random moment where we not even
(36:37):
were at the zoo we were driving to the Lincoln Park Zoo
and we were couldn't figure out how to like get that we try to get like a ticket
to lift up like the parking garage gate or the parking lot gate and for whatever
reason it wasn't opening so we kept getting tickets and then at one point it
just opens up and my cousin just yells floor at grandma,
(36:58):
and like her like I don't even know 10 year old like Honda or whatever she was driving,
and so it was these like weird moments that just like pop up and like whether
it was on a run or just like sitting down one day that these like moments just
like spark and for whatever reason.
That that spark happened.
(37:18):
It's like that moment of like processing and remembering those moments of like
happiness and fondness and love and all the like positive memories that stick to.
How long or whenever they as you were going
through your grief journey or did you at some point realize or
get a hold of sort of the intensity that went with it
(37:41):
and how did these memories when they popped up like altered
your mood it was i mean all anytime you
think when you remember someone who's passed there's so
many emotions that go into it it's such a loaded feeling
because you are thinking of these like beautiful
moments that you have and for whatever reason when you have like
this is the memory that sticks or this is the memory that
(38:03):
pops up it's that love and passion and happiness but
also you there's the like realization
of the sadness the the grief the the
loss the heaviness the gravity the like
roller coaster of emotions that you feel through
all of this and you focus
(38:25):
on the positive and you focus on these memories and these beautiful moments
that you get to keep and share but you also at the same time naturally think
about the grief and the loss of this person and this individual being in your
life and the lack of new memories that you'll be able to create or pursue with this person.
(38:45):
And so it's such a you think
about the positive and you you leave with these
beautiful moments but it's it's always heavier than
just never just why i'm up do you have a memory specifically of a time when
you hit a breaking point i think it was honestly the i distinctly remember when
(39:06):
my first grandmother was this was going back to 2019 but when she was essentially on.
Like in the hospital like we knew that this moment
was going to be happened soon happening soon June I
we were all at the
time like the aunts and uncles were in but being on
(39:27):
whether or not to call in the cousins like
how like do we call in people from
out of town do we call in you know these people
so that they can also be here and my parents
at the moment were deciding not to call
my brother other and i lost it
(39:48):
with them and was like essentially back
if you don't call him right now i'm calling him and
doing it myself i'm like i'm not taking
this like if you won't do it if you won't be the person
to call him and say what's happening then like i'm gonna do it
right now and they remember this moment very differently and if you ask them
(40:11):
like how my brother found out like they'll tell you a very different story but
like i distinctly remember and like it sticks with me because it was such like
a breaking point to such a moment in time that.
And I think it was also me not also knowing how to deal with this moment.
(40:31):
It's a physical feeling almost of like losing it, even if other people don't see it.
It's like gut, not gut-wrenching, but like truly this like almost like anger
was coming up and just like frustration and like knee-jerk reaction was about to happen.
Like I'm doing this. Like if you're not, I am. Like someone's doing it right now.
(40:53):
Hell and i don't care what it is but like we're doing
this mixed off of everything that's happened and
everything that you've told me and everything that's occurred this is
how why was why do you think he
was being protected i think that he
there's i think a million reasons i
think part of it is he's the younger brother he's the baby so like you always
(41:16):
kind of baby the baby a little bit he was away so there was a little bit of
distance that breeding him from the immediate moment he was at school and a
million things going on in his world and so why bring him into,
this moment in time well i think my parents were just trying to protect and
(41:36):
guard his emotions and his feelings and not knowing how he would necessarily react to it all.
But I felt like this was something that he needed to be, if we were all going
to be there and if we were all doing this,
then he needed to have the information at the minimum, be able to make the choice
(41:56):
for himself and allow him to do that as like his,
like give him the courtesy and give him the grace of allowing him to make that choice. Definitely.
Thanking. Your relationship with him was also really different,
right? Really, really close when you were growing up. So, you know,
your understanding and closeness with him is very different than that of like
(42:17):
parents and we're still super close.
And I, as his older brother, always love to say to people like I can say this,
but no one else can because then I'll have to beat you up.
But he is the smartest person in the room and also the dumbest person in the room at all times.
Like, I love him. He's, he's awesome. He's great.
But like, sometimes you just, you just wonder and like, I could say that because
(42:41):
I'm his older brother. But like, that's the connection that we have.
I want to jump into more the running coming into the third grief instance,
because here you are, you're really just starting out.
Now you're starting, oh, I can do this month, I can do that much.
All the time, it's a solace for you. And it sounds like a coping mechanism of sorts.
So bring us into, I guess we're cutting into 2022 now, which was just two years ago.
(43:06):
So 2021, I did my first virtual, 2022 doing the second virtual,
and then 2022 into 2023 decided that, well, I've done two half marathons at this point.
If you add those together, that equals one full marathon.
And so I convinced, it wasn't hard, but I convinced my best friend to do the
(43:29):
Disney Dopey Challenge with me.
Dylan math. Two halves equal a full. Yeah, one half plus one half equals one. We're doing great here.
But the Disney marathon was in January of 2023.
And so all of 2022 was spent essentially training for this large feat.
(43:52):
And it was a 5k on Thursday, a 10k on Friday, a half marathon on Saturday,
and then a full marathon on Sunday.
Day so we we jumped into it i said we're gonna do it we're gonna we're gonna
go all the way and we had a had a plan to like the 5k we were gonna do a nice
jog the 10k and a half we were gonna,
(44:12):
jog run most of it and then walk some of it so we were gonna pace ourselves for the marathon
and then the marathon our only goal it wasn't for time it was just to finish
like we We had like a time in mind, but like it was just across the finish line
saying that we accomplished this whole feat.
So 2022 was spent really like diving into running and it was also diving into
(44:39):
running and the end of summer and into like fall and into winter.
And so like I feel like if you're running in Chicago in winter,
like you have to really want that. Like you've got to commit to that.
And I love winter running. I don't know how I feel about it.
I'm okay with the cold. The cold weather is something I can handle,
but it was like the ice and the slush that I'm like, I'm not running on these days.
(45:00):
Like this is, no, I'm not worried. I can't worry about like injuring myself
or slipping on ice, but like cold weather, no problem.
And now I was joking the other day as we had our beautiful weather over the
weekend and the lakefront path is packed again with people.
I was joking. I was like I know that I don't own the lakefront path like it's
(45:23):
not Dylan's lakefront path but like in winter time like,
people on it like it is empty in comparison and now there's you have groups
of 15 20 people all running together and i'm like i know it's not mine but i
feel a sense of pride being like.
I did this when none of y'all were out here
(45:43):
and so like even
like that alone is so silly to think about because like i would
have never done a winter run let alone a summer run
a couple years ago but coming into
2022 and or 2022 into 2023
decided that this was going to do a marathon and then did that in january and
(46:04):
then for chicago was then going to come up in october and decided to do the
chicago marathon in october so i was going to go from january have a nice eight nine nine,
10 months to train for Chicago again,
and then get back, back into it.
And in the middle of that, that's when, um.
(46:26):
That's when my wife's grandmother or essentially our third grandparent,
who was experiencing a lot of health issues as well, eventually passed in June, July.
And I felt
like at this time be like at
this point I was into running like I was training I was running and
(46:48):
being able to go on
a run in the like early mornings by
myself to be able to like clear my head or or not think about anything to do
kind of like process all the emotions that I was Whether it was listening to
a podcast or turning on just sound in the background or feeling the music or turning on the...
(47:14):
Heavy beat music or turning on the sab like cry
in the corner music like i was able to do all of
that on your support
system is your movement and those activities you're
able to do in your within your movement it's almost like it
activity becomes your best friend in a way right like
i mean your wife is coping in her own way i'm sure
(47:37):
you're grieving too so how are you feeling because you're
you're the caretaker in a way so yeah and
this the third one was it was
so it was a very different grieving process because my
wife we all say it so it's not it's no one's surprise my my wife was the favorite
like she was the favorite grandchild like we all know it like we can move on
(48:01):
past that point like we all accepted it great so her grieving process was totally
different because of how close her and her grandmother were,
but because she was also so close, like I was also so close to her and people would joke with us.
They're like, okay, Dylan, like we know like Ashley's the favorite and all,
but like, where are you like in this?
(48:21):
And I'm like, I'm, I feel like I'm pretty up there because like we would call
her Bubby and she would send like at school, she would send me an individual like Halloween card,
Valentine's day card, like to my fraternity house so people
would be joking they're like dylan you have mail from your grandma i'm like well
she's kind of my grandma but she's also technically like
not my grandma and so
(48:44):
like we were also super close but it was a very hard because my
wife is grieving for her bubby her
grieving but to a different extent
and different emotions but i also feel the guilt
of trying to support my wife and who's going
through this but also then feel guilty for potentially feeling these
(49:05):
emotions that i'm grieving through but
also having the love and the kindness of the support and all of those emotions
just like rolled into one and so i was supporting my wife and i was talking
to my friend about it and talking about all these emotions and in therapy i'm as well talking to
(49:28):
a therapist about it, and all these rollercoaster of emotions of how do you
grieve for someone that you're so close to, but you're also...
Slightly removed a little bit from the situation yeah that
i can imagine the guilt of i
feel these things but i don't feel like i can share that because
(49:50):
you're feeling more or am i
no i mean i don't want to like it's hard
because like i never want to like compare like my
guilt or not guilt but my grief or like someone's
grief in the family because everyone feels such different
things but it was really hard on my wife
(50:11):
it was really hard on her mom like they like i
said like this woman bubby was with us
literally like every sunday dinner every tuesday thursday
friday sometimes like all of these dinners
she would when ashley was growing up she
would pick her up from like school and like take care of her
for the day and like all of
(50:33):
the this is why i say she's a a favorite like she actually was
the first grandchild and so like there was this
connection that they had together and love that
they shared and you we would joke that like bubby loved her children but she
was like put on this earth for her grandchildren like that was who she was here
for and so it was really hard for all the grandchildren and it would come at different times.
(50:59):
And, you know, I'd find my wife or her sister or cousins or anyone just dealing
with the emotions and working through whatever they were feeling at the time. And, you know.
My wife got a tattoo in honor of her after she passed in order to kind of really commemorate her.
So it's never like I never want to compare what I was feeling to my wife or to her family members.
(51:27):
But whenever you're close to someone, it's how did you both work together,
right? Because you're going through your grieving process.
You experienced these losses even two years back.
And so you realize the intensity of the losses can vary, right?
And there's a difference between each loss also depending on the connection
that you share with the person.
But how did then did you and her work together to move together as a unit, right?
(51:52):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we, I think we did some things together and some things apart.
And that was what really was working for us and doesn't work for everyone,
but it was working for us in the sense that we were able to talk about,
you know, the good, the bad, the memories all
the things together the things that we shared together the things
(52:13):
that we loved and hated and fun memories and all those things together but also
able to separate and have our alone time to process what was happening and whether
that was me going on a run or we.
Were both talking to like our respective therapists at the time and like having
(52:36):
Having moments for us to cross us to like individuality as well,
I think really is what set us up for being able to come together and move forward
with what we needed to do as a unit and as a couple and as a household.
You have an understanding of one another. It sounds like ways of coping, which is really cool.
(52:58):
Like it sounds like there was a lot of respect there of like,
hey, if I need to go out on my run, like you understand and that's great.
I mean, it's very clear movement has been a huge part of your process,
but I also want to get into the message that you really wanted to touch on,
which was how therapy played a part in it.
So tell us a little bit about how therapy added to your plethora of coping mechanisms.
(53:23):
Yeah, movement has always been something that, you know, starting with the first
loss that I threw myself into and didn't really know how to...
Loss and so I was just like I know movement and I know activity so that's what
I'm going to do and as the auto just kicked in and as time went on through these
through these losses and finding running like that became my way to regulate
(53:48):
movement and have plans and have goals and have.
These times where I knew that I would be running in
times where I was able to kind of I didn't have
to go on you know didn't have to run a marathon every single
day in order to process things because i was working through the
runs and then simultaneously i it
(54:09):
took me a while and i'll admit it took me a while because for a long time i
thought that a therapist was there for someone who experienced like true trauma
and you see it on like the media and outlets of like you know you watch like
svu and you hear of like all the horrors and all the negatives in the news and
you're like Like, that's what trauma is.
That is what something terrible has happened to these people.
(54:33):
And I never thought that that was me. I just never thought that that was something
that I needed to pursue or needed to cope with or deal with.
I just never thought that that was something that was needed.
And it took me a while and a lot of my wife and friends kind of just chipping
away, being like, I think it would be beneficial for you.
(54:54):
Or i think talk into it like know
every detail of your life and your friends and your support system
that you naturally have that friends and family would be a
benefit and it took six months to
a year probably of small little moment like okay like i'm ready for for this
(55:15):
and i feel like that was something that was really important was that i had
to be ready for it it It wasn't something that I could rush into or force.
It was something that I had to want to do.
And I've been talking to my therapist, my lovely therapist, for a year,
(55:35):
year and a half. I don't even know at this point.
But I've never said that I've experienced these, like, the worst things on the planet.
But I have experienced life, and I've experienced loss,
and I've experienced hardships and I've experienced relationships and
I've experienced all these emotions that I've talked
(55:57):
about today and all things are things and work through with my therapist and
that things myself assess and deal with my own emotions and be able to even
and just like under and my emotions at a higher level.
(56:19):
Been able to deeper relationships and focus on relationships
whether it's with my whether it's with
my brother or friends and really create
a deeper connection with them and a better understanding of what we all need
together and I've been able to just focus on it's selfish but it's like this
(56:39):
person is there for me like this person is here to help me deal through all of the
emotions that I feel, all the connections and relationships that I feel to better myself.
And so it's, you know, you joke about it, but it's like 1% better every day.
And that's what I feel like I've been able to really, really start focusing
(57:01):
on is not only my physical health and, you know, going on these runs and staying active and staying,
doing mobility and yoga and like all of those things, but also focusing on like
my mental health and who I am and just being a better person every day.
And so I say that the Dylan today is the best Dylan that he's been.
(57:24):
And not because necessarily I can run a marathon or like do any of that,
which sure, great, I can.
But because I feel stronger than I have ever been.
And it's because I feel stronger in processing emotions, talking about emotions,
dealing with emotions, even talking about and like doing something like this
(57:44):
was something that Dylan three years ago, four years ago would never have even thought about doing.
You like have sought support when that's really not something that comes naturally to you.
It sounds like a huge mode of development for you of like, just say like,
hey, I want to try this out. I'm ready for this.
Do you have a message you want to send to people who are experiencing grief? Yeah, I think...
(58:08):
Me and i kind of touched on it briefly
is that grief looks different for every single person
and the emotions that go along with it the highs the lows the heaviness the
weight of it the anger the sadness the happiness whatever feeling is happening is true is who is real
(58:32):
there's the we oftentimes
like associating guilt with it but your
emotions and the moments you're feeling are real and the
connections that you have with these people or had with these
people that were experiencing loss are real
and all those moments are true and the
(58:52):
process to work through that is
looks different for every person i have
found solace in going on runs and having some time to process whatever emotion
i'm feeling through throughout that run and sometimes that changes halfway through
the run and i stop what i'm doing and i'm like this is stupid i don't want to
listen to this music anymore i need something totally different i need to change
(59:15):
whatever is happening And that's also okay.
Like that moment is also true and real.
And for anyone that is going through loss or has gone through loss or will eventually
go through loss, it's hard.
And there's no way around that. but there
(59:35):
are support systems there are people in your life
there are therapists out
there there's family there's connections there's
someone who has probably experienced what you are feeling at some point and
there's people out there that will also never experience what you're feeling
(59:55):
and that's all real well thank you thanks for sharing all this i think this
is relatable for a lot of people.
I know I've heard people say things like, people won't understand until they've
experienced grief themselves.
And so I think a lot of people feel alone in that process.
And I think your story is really just going to help people feel not alone,
(01:00:16):
you know, feel like, oh, I can cope alone, but I can also reach out for help,
even if it is just from a therapist, because I'm not ready to reach out to my,
you know, whoever in the family.
So yeah, thank you. Is there anything you want to add? No, absolutely.
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for walking us through your process,
sharing your insight and perspective and what you've learned.
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