December 2, 2025 • 28 mins
In this special Christmas episode of Ray of Light, host Eleanor Ray sits down with Chris McDonald—writing as Chris Frost—to unwrap the secrets behind his chilling festive thriller, "The Christmas Tree Killer." Set against snow-swept landscapes, Chris’s latest novel follows DI Tom Stonem as he hunts a killer who leaves grisly gifts beneath the Christmas tree.
We dive into Chris’s journey from cozy crime to Christmas suspense, the inspiration behind his memorable characters, and how he balances writing with life’s challenges—including a surprise diabetes diagnosis. Chris shares his writing routines, advice for aspiring authors, and what brings him joy both on and off the page. Plus, get a sneak peek at his upcoming projects and festive tips for the holiday season.
Curl up with this episode for a blend of holiday warmth, spine-tingling crime, and creative inspiration.
Connect with Eleanor on social media @eleanorraybooks and visit www.eleanorraybooks.com for more updates, resources, and uplifting fiction. Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and share if you enjoyed the show!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
As the nights grow longer and the festive light start to twinkle, I'm excited to bring you my first ever special Christmas episode.
I write books that are about finding light in dark times and the strength in vulnerability.
Perfect for cozy.
(00:28):
winter evenings with a cup of something warm.
But my next guest has written something even more Christmasy and much darker. 7 00:00:37,936.244485673 --> 00:00:45,736.244485673 I'm thrilled to welcome Chris McDonald who writes his Christmas crime books as Chris Frost, his second festive thriller. 8 00:00:45,826.244485673 --> 00:00:54,496.244485673 The Christmas Tree Killer has just been published set against snow swept landscapes, and featuring a killer who leaves chilling gifts under the Christmas tree. 9 00:00:54,766.244485673 --> 00:01:00,246.244485673 It's the perfect read for anyone who likes a little holiday suspense alongside their mince pies. 10 00:01:00,246.244485673 --> 00:01:02,256.244485673 Thank you so much for joining us, Chris. 11 00:01:05,256.244485673 --> 00:01:12,926.244485673 Now you write under two names, festively under Chris Frost, and the Christmas Tree Killer is your second Christmas crime novel. 12 00:01:13,166.244485673 --> 00:01:26,126.244485673 Can you tell us a little bit more about that book and about what drew you to writing festive thrillers? the Christmas Tree Killer is the second in the DI Tom Stonem series, the first of which was The Killer's Christmas List. 13 00:01:26,466.244485673 --> 00:01:32,136.244485673 the second one is, it can be read as a standalone, so you know, you don't have to know anything about Tom. 14 00:01:32,596.244485673 --> 00:01:37,456.244485673 in the first chapter there's a woman called Madison, who's a hiker who wants to trek the Pennine way. 15 00:01:37,506.244485673 --> 00:01:44,64.99448567 she's just outside the town of Holt which is sort of in the center of England towards Carlisle, up near the Scottish border. 16 00:01:44,514.99448567 --> 00:01:53,364.99448567 And, even though it's snowy and it's blowing a gale and things like that, she decides to carry on and about halfway through it, the conditions are worse than she thought. 17 00:01:53,364.99448567 --> 00:02:05,401.24448567 So actually she I'm gonna turn back and as she does, she spies this present under one of the, the fur trees And she figures that it's probably from her fiance because you know, it's desolate and no one else knows she's here. 18 00:02:06,374.99448567 --> 00:02:10,94.99448567 She thinks it's gonna be a fleece or a new pair of boots or something, something like that. 19 00:02:10,464.99448567 --> 00:02:12,414.99448567 but when she goes and. 20 00:02:13,719.99448567 --> 00:02:14,379.99448567 Grabs it. 21 00:02:14,559.99448567 --> 00:02:20,919.99448567 She's hit by a pretty horrible smell and a drop of blood pours out of a hole in it. 22 00:02:21,99.99448567 --> 00:02:23,439.99448567 And the first word of the second chapter is a foot. 23 00:02:23,839.99448567 --> 00:02:25,9.99448567 so you Love that moment. 24 00:02:25,309.99448567 --> 00:02:29,854.99448567 a, someone has wrapped a foot, and there was a, a gift tag on it for Madison. 25 00:02:29,854.99448567 --> 00:02:30,994.99448567 So it was definitely for her. 26 00:02:31,984.99448567 --> 00:02:32,674.99448567 so Tom. 27 00:02:33,634.99448567 --> 00:02:46,174.99448567 Who's usually based over Newcastle Way, has been asked to go and lend this sort of smaller team, his expertise, in the hunt for a killer or a someone that delivers festive, horrible presents. 28 00:02:46,954.99448567 --> 00:02:51,719.99448567 I love it and I, I have to say I really enjoyed your book and I love that moment where she got that present. 29 00:02:51,719.99448567 --> 00:02:53,849.99448567 And what I found most chilling was that it said her name on. 30 00:02:53,874.99448567 --> 00:02:55,589.99448567 It, it had a gift tag for her. 31 00:02:55,709.99448567 --> 00:03:01,19.99448567 She's like, yeah, I dunno whether it's better to find a foot that it's addressed to you or a foot that's not addressed to you. 32 00:03:01,19.99448567 --> 00:03:02,99.99448567 I think I'd rather one not. 33 00:03:03,439.99448567 --> 00:03:06,859.99448567 It's a great, yeah, you could do a poll and see what, see what people's thoughts are. 34 00:03:08,759.99448567 --> 00:03:09,659.99448567 Brilliant idea. 35 00:03:09,959.99448567 --> 00:03:12,794.99448567 Now, your first, Christmas book was a hit with readers. 36 00:03:12,854.99448567 --> 00:03:25,209.99448567 How did that story lead you to this one and is there something special about Christmas that really called to you? The first one was sort of a leap into the unknown because I'd never had a pseudonym before and it was with a new publisher. 37 00:03:25,519.99448567 --> 00:03:29,599.99448567 previously I'd been with an indie publisher, Red Dog Press, who I absolutely loved. 38 00:03:29,719.99448567 --> 00:03:33,632.49448567 and then this opportunity came along to, to go to Harper North, and. 39 00:03:34,654.99448567 --> 00:03:36,244.99448567 It was a much bigger machine. 40 00:03:36,244.99448567 --> 00:03:41,54.99448567 So there were lots of discussions with editors about, you know, what, the story would be and the tone and things like that. 41 00:03:41,54.99448567 --> 00:03:42,734.99448567 So it was really interesting way to do it. 42 00:03:42,944.99448567 --> 00:03:51,254.99448567 and yeah, sort of building Tom was a really fun thing to do because the story called for a specific type of person. 43 00:03:51,974.99448567 --> 00:03:56,644.99448567 So building Tom To be in the role that he needed to be was really fun. 44 00:03:56,804.99448567 --> 00:03:59,34.99448567 the first one went down really well. 45 00:03:59,84.99448567 --> 00:04:02,414.99448567 and I really loved writing it and, and the reactions were just fantastic. 46 00:04:02,524.99448567 --> 00:04:05,554.99448567 and then as I started to write the second one in January 24. 47 00:04:06,994.99448567 --> 00:04:09,64.99448567 my vision was really blurry and I was having a sort of. 48 00:04:09,794.99448567 --> 00:04:11,354.99448567 Not a very nice time in my body. 49 00:04:12,294.99448567 --> 00:04:18,49.99448567 and I, the next day after writing it, I took myself to hospital and I was very quickly diagnosed with Type one diabetes. 50 00:04:18,349.99448567 --> 00:04:18,859.99448567 goodness. 51 00:04:19,554.99448567 --> 00:04:24,204.99448567 so my vision was like, I thought I was going blind and all, all kinds of stuff. 52 00:04:24,209.99448567 --> 00:04:32,879.99448567 Harper North were amazing because I left a big gaping hole in their Christmas schedule for 2024, but then we delayed it by a year and, and I got on track. 53 00:04:32,929.99448567 --> 00:04:49,579.99448567 And obviously without giving spoilers, something happens at the end of the first book that leaves Tom in a sort of a position where he could have gotten out of the police or, or stayed in and taken him out of where the first book happened to somewhere else was. 54 00:04:49,634.99448567 --> 00:04:51,109.99448567 Was a move that I thought would be good. 55 00:04:52,129.99448567 --> 00:04:58,559.99448567 seeing a therapist, and he sort of suggests, you know, walking and, and getting out into open spaces would be good for him. 56 00:04:58,709.99448567 --> 00:05:05,429.99448567 So this opportunity to, I mean, it's not an amazing opportunity to go investigate someone who's leaving, you know, body parts for people. 57 00:05:05,759.99448567 --> 00:05:09,149.99448567 but it meant getting out of where he was and where the action of the first book had happened. 58 00:05:09,179.99448567 --> 00:05:15,199.99448567 And I quite like when books move around, so that was quite a good opportunity to go and explore a different place. 59 00:05:15,779.99448567 --> 00:05:16,49.99448567 Yes. 60 00:05:16,49.99448567 --> 00:05:17,399.99448567 I love the change in atmosphere. 61 00:05:17,399.99448567 --> 00:05:18,569.99448567 I haven't read the first book yet. 62 00:05:18,569.99448567 --> 00:05:20,219.99448567 I'm going to for this Christmas. 63 00:05:20,519.99448567 --> 00:05:21,399.99448567 but it's nice to take how. 64 00:05:21,449.99448567 --> 00:05:24,989.99448567 Characters from, from a particular setting and put somewhere, with a bit more space. 65 00:05:25,119.99448567 --> 00:05:29,229.99448567 we'll get onto what kind of makes you happy as an author later. 66 00:05:29,229.99448567 --> 00:05:36,729.99448567 But one thing that a lot of authors have said to me is just getting outside and walking and being in the fresh air is great. 67 00:05:36,729.99448567 --> 00:05:44,69.99448567 It brings them a lot of joy and hopefully it does for, for DI Tom Stonem as well, although albeit littered with, packages filled with body parts. 68 00:05:44,69.99448567 --> 00:05:44,399.99448567 Hmm. 69 00:05:44,769.99448567 --> 00:05:45,59.99448567 Yeah. 70 00:05:46,59.99448567 --> 00:05:51,409.99448567 Now, he has to navigate this very terrifying case in a very atmospheric environment, as we've discussed. 71 00:05:51,559.99448567 --> 00:05:58,319.99448567 How do you approach your character development when he's in this intense situation? You've mentioned, getting him some therapy already. 72 00:05:58,469.99448567 --> 00:06:06,169.99448567 What else do you do to kind of help him along this, this festive route? well at the start I thought it was just gonna be him. 73 00:06:06,229.99448567 --> 00:06:10,929.99448567 So in the first book, there's a, a team, and often in detective books, the team don't. 74 00:06:11,219.99448567 --> 00:06:16,119.99448567 It on, for a bit of tension, but I decided quite early on that the team were gonna get on. 75 00:06:16,119.99448567 --> 00:06:19,119.99448567 So in the first book, they're all really good friends. 76 00:06:19,119.99448567 --> 00:06:23,379.99448567 He's kind of new, to the area, but he's welcomed in and, and everyone gets on. 77 00:06:23,429.99448567 --> 00:06:27,839.99448567 and that was quite important to me because I wanted to do something a little bit different. 78 00:06:28,769.99448567 --> 00:06:37,819.99448567 in the second one, my original intention was to take him up somewhere else alone have him have to go through this investigation by himself. 79 00:06:38,629.99448567 --> 00:06:45,749.99448567 But when it came to writing it, his partner, DS, Lauren Ray, it felt weird without her. 80 00:06:45,994.99448567 --> 00:06:50,134.99448567 and I thought I really liked writing her in the first book. 81 00:06:50,134.99448567 --> 00:06:51,424.99448567 She plays an important part. 82 00:06:51,894.99448567 --> 00:07:07,954.99448567 so I thought when it came to writing this, actually I felt like Tom probably would've said, can Lauren come? So I kind of felt like it was important that if the team weren't gonna be in it, someone familiar was, So I thought it was important that she was there for a little bit of, almost like an emotional crutch at times for him. 83 00:07:08,24.99448567 --> 00:07:16,504.99448567 someone to be able to bounce ideas off and things like that, especially with the people that they meet when they're there that, he maybe doesn't get on quite so well with. 84 00:07:16,889.99448567 --> 00:07:17,489.99448567 Yes. 85 00:07:17,599.99448567 --> 00:07:19,39.99448567 I like having people getting on. 86 00:07:19,219.99448567 --> 00:07:21,559.99448567 'cause as I said, I write, I write quite uplifting stuff. 87 00:07:21,559.99448567 --> 00:07:23,179.99448567 I've still got plenty of conflict in there. 88 00:07:23,359.99448567 --> 00:07:27,129.99448567 But especially when you are writing a Christmas book, you've got very dark things happening. 89 00:07:27,409.99448567 --> 00:07:28,729.99448567 a, in a festive atmosphere. 90 00:07:28,729.99448567 --> 00:07:29,929.99448567 Do you think something about. 91 00:07:30,69.99448567 --> 00:07:34,209.99448567 Wanting people to get on at Christmas might have influenced that decision at all. 92 00:07:35,324.99448567 --> 00:07:37,629.99448567 I think so, and I think the fact that there's so much. 93 00:07:38,179.99448567 --> 00:07:39,199.99448567 tension and Hmm. 94 00:07:39,829.99448567 --> 00:07:40,639.99448567 elsewhere. 95 00:07:40,669.99448567 --> 00:07:50,719.99448567 I think when, when people come to work, they should, I know people at work don't get on, but in my book I thought it was important that kind of all the, all the horrible stuff happened outside the work walls. 96 00:07:50,749.99448567 --> 00:07:56,479.99448567 And when they were together, they were a good team that could sort of bounce ideas off each other and, and things like that. 97 00:07:56,479.99448567 --> 00:08:05,114.99448567 So, yeah, I, I felt like sometimes if I read a book and it's just like constant bickering everywhere, it's like, where's the downtime? Or, you know. 98 00:08:05,744.99448567 --> 00:08:05,964.99448567 Yes. 99 00:08:06,109.99448567 --> 00:08:12,649.99448567 I went to work and I was constantly bickering with people, I'd just think, well, I'd leave or, you know, I can't be bothered with this. 100 00:08:12,949.99448567 --> 00:08:18,919.99448567 So yeah, I kind of wanted to be that juxtaposition of happy work, horrible investigation. 101 00:08:19,964.99448567 --> 00:08:26,29.99448567 So can you tell me a little bit about your path to publication, how you, how you started off, and then how. 102 00:08:26,179.99448567 --> 00:08:28,459.99448567 You made this journey to being a full-time writer. 103 00:08:29,404.99448567 --> 00:08:29,794.99448567 Yeah. 104 00:08:29,954.99448567 --> 00:08:39,314.99448567 so probably about 15 years ago when I was at uni, I had an initial idea for, for a chapter of a book. 105 00:08:39,534.99448567 --> 00:08:43,554.99448567 and it was, I saw it as a kind of film, so it was a ice rink. 106 00:08:44,664.99448567 --> 00:08:53,544.99448567 There was a body on it, and I saw like the, the camera rise to, to show, you know, the, the very bright white of the ice with red spreading across it. 107 00:08:53,924.99448567 --> 00:08:54,619.99448567 So lovely. 108 00:08:54,919.99448567 --> 00:08:55,584.99448567 body in the middle. 109 00:08:56,154.99448567 --> 00:08:56,814.99448567 and I'd been reading it. 110 00:08:56,814.99448567 --> 00:08:59,814.99448567 I, you know, crime had always been my genre that I enjoyed reading. 111 00:08:59,814.99448567 --> 00:09:08,634.99448567 So, I had that idea and I thought, well, you know, I'd quite like to write that I was studying English as well as teaching at the time, but because. 112 00:09:09,69.99448567 --> 00:09:12,549.99448567 Authors were my rock stars or the people that I looked up to. 113 00:09:12,639.99448567 --> 00:09:17,719.99448567 I thought, well, someone like me can't just sit down and write a chapter of a book. 114 00:09:17,719.99448567 --> 00:09:21,819.99448567 Like that's, that's a job that, know, very famous people do. 115 00:09:22,779.99448567 --> 00:09:25,313.43198567 So I put it away for maybe 13 years or so. 116 00:09:25,793.43198567 --> 00:09:30,323.43198567 and then when I moved up to Manchester, I started playing five aside football with these guys. 117 00:09:30,383.43198567 --> 00:09:33,893.43198567 And four weeks in, I heard two of them discussing. 118 00:09:35,333.43198567 --> 00:09:45,623.43198567 and I quickly find out that they were authors I thought, ah, well if they can, you know, if, if they're just normal people that I'm playing football with, if they can have a go at writing a book, then maybe I can too. 119 00:09:46,43.43198567 --> 00:09:56,693.43198567 So I sort of dug this idea out of my memory again and, and went home and wrote that chapter, and thought, you know, that's, it's kind of out of my system now. 120 00:09:56,743.43198567 --> 00:10:02,563.43198567 What's the point in writing a whole book? 'cause no one will ever read it and it's a massive waste of or so I thought. 121 00:10:03,253.43198567 --> 00:10:09,883.43198567 so I kinda left it and then a few days later, obviously my brain had been working and I thought, oh, well I kind of know what would happen in chapter two now. 122 00:10:10,633.43198567 --> 00:10:11,623.43198567 I kind of just went like that. 123 00:10:12,493.43198567 --> 00:10:20,743.43198567 And I wrote, and I wrote, and when it was finished, I didn't know anything about editing agents, how, how it all worked. 124 00:10:21,133.43198567 --> 00:10:22,603.43198567 So I sent it to. 125 00:10:23,788.43198567 --> 00:10:26,587.18198567 that was accepting, you know, unsolicited manuscripts. 126 00:10:26,597.18198567 --> 00:10:33,827.18198567 I sent it a few, maybe three or four, and Red Dog got back in touch and he said, you know, I love it and you know, we'd love to publish it and things like that. 127 00:10:34,217.18198567 --> 00:10:36,132.18198567 so I said yes, and then I. 128 00:10:36,797.18198567 --> 00:10:45,617.18198567 By four weeks later, I got my first edits back and I, I remember sending my wife, he told me he loved this book and look how much he wants me to change. 129 00:10:46,37.18198567 --> 00:10:47,117.18198567 And I was like, so I'm not doing it. 130 00:10:47,117.18198567 --> 00:10:48,197.18198567 I've not signed a contract. 131 00:10:48,197.18198567 --> 00:10:49,637.18198567 You know, I'm, I'm not changing it. 132 00:10:49,997.18198567 --> 00:10:51,947.18198567 And she was like, well, you know, think about it. 133 00:10:51,947.18198567 --> 00:10:53,837.18198567 He knows, he knows what he's talking about. 134 00:10:54,447.18198567 --> 00:10:56,372.18198567 She sounds very wise, your wife. 135 00:10:57,17.18198567 --> 00:10:59,87.18198567 Yeah, she's like the, yeah, the voice on my shoulder. 136 00:10:59,87.18198567 --> 00:11:01,487.18198567 That's like, just, just take a moment. 137 00:11:02,327.18198567 --> 00:11:07,547.18198567 so yeah, I took a moment and I went back to the email and thought, well, actually, you know, he's right about that. 138 00:11:07,547.18198567 --> 00:11:17,957.18198567 And I, he's, yeah, and, and every point he made, I agreed with, so yeah, that came out in 2020, just as lockdown was about to hit. 139 00:11:18,137.18198567 --> 00:11:19,612.18198567 It was a Chris McDonald book. 140 00:11:20,412.18198567 --> 00:11:24,822.18198567 It was, yeah, so my first 10 Chris McDonald books. 141 00:11:24,852.18198567 --> 00:11:29,422.18198567 So I did a, a trilogy of, police procedurals with, Erica Piper in them. 142 00:11:30,262.18198567 --> 00:11:34,102.18198567 six cozy crime novellas set in a fictional northern Irish town. 143 00:11:34,582.18198567 --> 00:11:38,792.18198567 And then I did a private investigator book set in Denver, in America. 144 00:11:39,92.18198567 --> 00:11:43,82.18198567 And then Red Dogs, sadly closed, shut up shop. 145 00:11:43,382.18198567 --> 00:11:46,112.18198567 and around that time I'd been talking to an editor at Harper. 146 00:11:46,592.18198567 --> 00:11:47,912.18198567 Collins called Daisy. 147 00:11:48,62.18198567 --> 00:11:51,252.18198567 And, and from that then, Chris Frost was born. 148 00:11:51,472.18198567 --> 00:11:53,122.18198567 and yeah, so we've done two of those. 149 00:11:53,872.18198567 --> 00:11:58,792.18198567 a third one on the way next Christmas and yeah, that brings us up to today. 150 00:11:59,787.18198567 --> 00:12:00,107.18198567 Excellent. 151 00:12:00,112.18198567 --> 00:12:04,132.18198567 And now you write, you write full-time, on your novels and also writing for podcasts. 152 00:12:05,202.18198567 --> 00:12:11,22.18198567 Yeah, so I started off as a writer for podcasts and then I'm now a producer, so, I started do a lot of behind the scenes. 153 00:12:11,352.18198567 --> 00:12:12,282.18198567 Organization. 154 00:12:12,372.18198567 --> 00:12:16,132.18198567 So it means that I don't get burnt out with words, which is Yes. 155 00:12:16,432.18198567 --> 00:12:17,562.18198567 sort of doing a day job. 156 00:12:18,432.18198567 --> 00:12:24,762.18198567 And I'm very blessed to do it where I was writing full time, I'd have dinner, then I'd to writing fiction. 157 00:12:24,862.18198567 --> 00:12:25,372.18198567 I loved it. 158 00:12:25,462.18198567 --> 00:12:28,132.18198567 And it, you know, it was everything I thought it would be. 159 00:12:28,252.18198567 --> 00:12:31,157.18198567 But this gives me a little bit more head space Oh. 160 00:12:31,282.18198567 --> 00:12:32,717.18198567 just the words for my novels. 161 00:12:33,17.18198567 --> 00:12:34,97.18198567 Yeah, that's nice. 162 00:12:34,97.18198567 --> 00:12:37,787.18198567 I used to, I started writing while I was also working full time. 163 00:12:38,97.18198567 --> 00:12:46,547.18198567 and I wasn't just writing, but I worked in financial marketing, so it's quite a lot of writing and I'd go from writing a, a marketing brochure, for some kind of financial product. 164 00:12:46,547.18198567 --> 00:12:47,567.18198567 And then I'd switch to. 165 00:12:47,727.18198567 --> 00:12:50,877.18198567 Writing, writing a, writing a book. 166 00:12:51,57.18198567 --> 00:12:52,977.18198567 And it's, it's very physically the same. 167 00:12:53,97.18198567 --> 00:13:06,927.18198567 So what I found is I'd sit at my desk during the day and write, write, write, and then to get home to trick myself that I was doing something else, I'd recline on my sofa and balance my laptop on my lap and write that way so that I just felt like I wasn't doing exactly the same thing for hours and hours and hours and hours. 168 00:13:07,797.18198567 --> 00:13:08,547.18198567 but yeah, it's tricky. 169 00:13:09,62.18198567 --> 00:13:11,192.18198567 Yeah, I write full time now, which is much nicer. 170 00:13:11,192.18198567 --> 00:13:17,352.18198567 And I've got, I've got three little kids, so they, they provide the distractions and the physically different thing to do. 171 00:13:18,162.18198567 --> 00:13:19,122.18198567 Tell me about your writing day. 172 00:13:20,197.18198567 --> 00:13:23,82.18198567 I work sort of nine to five, on the podcast. 173 00:13:23,937.18198567 --> 00:13:24,387.18198567 Stuff. 174 00:13:24,417.18198567 --> 00:13:25,407.18198567 that's my day job. 175 00:13:25,827.18198567 --> 00:13:28,977.18198567 in that I go and pick up the children and take them to school and things like that. 176 00:13:29,37.18198567 --> 00:13:39,477.18198567 And then probably, my children have always gone to bed and I'm gonna say this and it's gonna change, but when they were babies, they'd go to bed at like seven and pretty much sleep through. 177 00:13:39,657.18198567 --> 00:13:42,157.18198567 So I'm trying not to look really jealous. 178 00:13:43,527.18198567 --> 00:13:44,727.18198567 I know everyone hates me for it. 179 00:13:44,777.18198567 --> 00:13:47,657.18198567 And they still go to bed by like half seven. 180 00:13:47,657.18198567 --> 00:13:59,787.18198567 So, it kind of means that once they're in bed, I can kind of come in here and, and I've got a writing playlist that's a bit Pavlovian so that as soon as I hear the first notes always the same first song, it gets me into that zone. 181 00:14:00,292.18198567 --> 00:14:01,672.18198567 Oh, that's a really good tip. 182 00:14:01,882.18198567 --> 00:14:02,872.18198567 I'd never thought of that. 183 00:14:04,227.18198567 --> 00:14:06,717.18198567 Yeah, it's a strange thing and it's all instrumental. 184 00:14:06,747.18198567 --> 00:14:11,932.18198567 'cause I've tried writing with, you know, I, I could never focus if there were words in Yes. 185 00:14:12,582.18198567 --> 00:14:15,72.18198567 Instrumental guitars and Atmospheric. 186 00:14:15,72.18198567 --> 00:14:19,432.18198567 So yeah, the first song is a song called this, buy a band called This Will Destroy You. 187 00:14:19,822.18198567 --> 00:14:21,462.18198567 And yeah, it works every time. 188 00:14:22,512.18198567 --> 00:14:22,872.18198567 Yeah. 189 00:14:24,847.18198567 --> 00:14:27,337.18198567 Saw that heavy metal is actually one of your passions. 190 00:14:27,397.18198567 --> 00:14:39,77.18198567 Do you think it influences your writing at all? Maybe, yeah, when I was younger especially, I was into properly heavy stuff and a lot of it is, about blood and violence and I've mellowed now. 191 00:14:39,77.18198567 --> 00:14:46,257.18198567 I, I still listen to it a bit, but, I've recently started a sort of pop punk band, so like Blink 1, 8, 2, green Day, that kind of thing. 192 00:14:46,362.18198567 --> 00:14:46,652.18198567 Yeah. 193 00:14:46,887.18198567 --> 00:14:49,737.18198567 I think I've definitely mellowed in my sort of, middle age. 194 00:14:50,37.18198567 --> 00:14:50,497.18198567 Oh wow. 195 00:14:50,497.18198567 --> 00:14:51,127.18198567 Brilliant. 196 00:14:51,907.18198567 --> 00:15:00,512.18198567 Now, getting back to your writing, what part of the writing process brings you the most joy? Well, that's a great question. 197 00:15:00,782.18198567 --> 00:15:08,332.18198567 I think it's changed, you know, When I sort of didn't know what I was doing with my first couple of books, I wasn't a plotter at all. 198 00:15:08,362.18198567 --> 00:15:13,492.18198567 So I'd just, I'd write a chapter, I'd leave it a few days to see what my brain would come up with. 199 00:15:13,732.18198567 --> 00:15:17,402.18198567 I'd write the next chapter, which was an exciting way of doing it. 200 00:15:17,697.18198567 --> 00:15:37,377.18198567 Because you never knew where you were going, but it meant that once you got to the end, there was so much editing to do because connections between chapters or, you know, if you, if you did a clue in chapter five, but never mentioned it again, I find it, it meant that there was a lot of backwards work at the end. 201 00:15:37,827.18198567 --> 00:15:55,917.18198567 it's my fear with plotting was that it would take the fun out of the writing because you're kind of just transcribing what you've already thought of previously, but actually sitting down now with, with kind of a that I know roughly what's gonna happen. 202 00:15:56,952.18198567 --> 00:16:01,572.18198567 Saves a load of procrastination, I can kinda sit down and I can get on with it. 203 00:16:02,412.18198567 --> 00:16:15,292.18198567 And, I know where it's going, but I've left myself enough leeway to take it in a specific way or I always think it's, I don't wanna swear, but you know, when people say the characters do stuff that you didn't expect them to do, you're like, well. 204 00:16:15,712.18198567 --> 00:16:23,702.18198567 They're in your head, but genuinely it happens, where it's like, oh, well I thought I was going to, you know, go down this alley, but actually we're going down this one. 205 00:16:23,762.18198567 --> 00:16:29,782.18198567 And, there's still enough of leeway in the plotting to not take the fun out of that side of things. 206 00:16:31,622.18198567 --> 00:16:41,132.1819857 I think just the actual sitting down something that hasn't existed before is like really strange way to, to spend your time, but. 207 00:16:42,132.1819857 --> 00:16:42,527.1819857 I dunno. 208 00:16:42,617.1819857 --> 00:16:45,497.1819857 It, it just feels like the fun of it hasn't left yet. 209 00:16:45,822.1819857 --> 00:16:45,942.1819857 Yeah. 210 00:16:46,67.1819857 --> 00:16:49,7.1819857 I don't, I don't know, hopefully it never will. 211 00:16:49,357.1819857 --> 00:16:50,947.1819857 I'm also a massive fan of the edit. 212 00:16:51,127.1819857 --> 00:17:09,367.1819857 I love, I love on things because I think sometimes we're so in our own heads that we think, well, I've explained that well enough 'cause I know what it means, but when someone else reads it, and you obviously haven't, so I really like the collaboration side of it, of, of, you know, you've given them something. 213 00:17:11,32.1819857 --> 00:17:13,642.1819857 suggestions, you know, small fixes here and there. 214 00:17:14,122.1819857 --> 00:17:17,182.1819857 yeah, kind of the whole process, which is a really wide answer, so I'm sorry. 215 00:17:17,182.1819857 --> 00:17:21,22.1819857 But, I just, every process of it or every part of it, you know, still excites me. 216 00:17:22,67.1819857 --> 00:17:22,667.1819857 I love that. 217 00:17:22,667.1819857 --> 00:17:23,87.1819857 I love that. 218 00:17:23,87.1819857 --> 00:17:27,107.1819857 I'm finding, just finding the joy in everything that you do, but I am gonna press you. 219 00:17:27,227.1819857 --> 00:17:39,407.1819857 What's the hardest part when you, when you write, is there something that you do find quite difficult, and if so, how do you get through it? I think deciding what to write next Mm-hmm. 220 00:17:39,427.1819857 --> 00:17:45,917.1819857 know that's sort of, dictated by schedules and contracts and, you know, if you've signed a two book deal. 221 00:17:47,77.1819857 --> 00:18:00,592.1819857 The, the, the hard part sometimes is, you know, you have to write that, but there's an idea that you've thought of that you're so excited about that, no one else knows about because it's, it's gonna be five or six books down the line if it ever happens at all. 222 00:18:01,342.1819857 --> 00:18:11,282.1819857 kind of having this big sort of document of ideas, are waiting and will be waiting for years is, is a, you know, a frustrating, well, I dunno if frustrating is the right word. 223 00:18:12,542.1819857 --> 00:18:13,802.1819857 That you can't get to them right now. 224 00:18:13,982.1819857 --> 00:18:18,742.1819857 I'm quite an impatient person, and when I want to do something, I will work to make that happen. 225 00:18:19,92.1819857 --> 00:18:21,582.1819857 Okay, so you have a big document of ideas. 226 00:18:21,582.1819857 --> 00:18:22,272.1819857 That's interesting. 227 00:18:22,302.1819857 --> 00:18:28,682.1819857 'cause some of my other guests, their biggest writing fear is running out of ideas, not knowing what to write next, which hasn't happened. 228 00:18:28,682.1819857 --> 00:18:30,842.1819857 They've all written loads of books, loads of brilliant books. 229 00:18:30,962.1819857 --> 00:18:33,312.1819857 But you have a, little dossier of things you want to write. 230 00:18:34,492.1819857 --> 00:18:36,712.1819857 Yeah, it's just in my notes section on my phone. 231 00:18:36,712.1819857 --> 00:18:37,152.1819857 So I Okay. 232 00:18:37,312.1819857 --> 00:18:55,387.1819857 will write down a few sentences about, you know, you know, journalist in America investigating this and, and it's that small and sometimes they might come to absolutely nothing once I dig into it a bit deeper So But yeah, the fear of sort of being, being put on the spot for an idea, I can imagine would be quite terrifying. 233 00:18:56,717.1819857 --> 00:18:59,537.1819857 One of the reasons I write is because I rarely have to be put on the spot. 234 00:18:59,747.1819857 --> 00:19:03,257.1819857 I always have time to think and digest and, and prepare something. 235 00:19:03,287.1819857 --> 00:19:04,817.1819857 I hate pitching my own ideas. 236 00:19:04,817.1819857 --> 00:19:08,27.1819857 I kind of, I can put them in a document and so I can read you out the document. 237 00:19:08,27.1819857 --> 00:19:10,234.6819857 Oh my publisher going, oh, great. 238 00:19:11,397.1819857 --> 00:19:12,417.1819857 But it's always fun. 239 00:19:12,857.1819857 --> 00:19:17,117.1819857 so I wanted to ask you, we've talked a bit about your writing process. 240 00:19:17,117.1819857 --> 00:19:26,297.1819857 Do you have any tips for aspiring authors? Any advice you'd give to someone who wants to write a book? Think there's a book in them, but hasn't quite got there yet? Would you suggest. 241 00:19:27,352.1819857 --> 00:19:34,7.1819857 I think just doing it and, and you know, a lot of people have an idea. 242 00:19:35,387.1819857 --> 00:19:42,947.1819857 actually just having that discipline to sit down and, and, you know, slog away at 80,000, 90,000 words is, is a daunting task. 243 00:19:43,367.1819857 --> 00:19:45,47.1819857 I dunno if I, oh, I have it handy here. 244 00:19:45,47.1819857 --> 00:19:52,217.1819857 So what I do is, at the start of a book, I print off these, and it's a really lofi way, so each one says 500. 245 00:19:52,567.1819857 --> 00:19:56,377.1819857 so when I write 500 words, I color in a box, Oh. 246 00:19:56,887.1819857 --> 00:19:57,397.1819857 and it's. 247 00:19:57,757.1819857 --> 00:20:02,437.1819857 Really manageable, but the endorphin hit is like what I imagine hard drugs is like. 248 00:20:02,827.1819857 --> 00:20:07,417.1819857 so I highlight it, I write the date on it, and then very quickly you build it up. 249 00:20:07,717.1819857 --> 00:20:13,587.1819857 And some days when I think I cannot be bothered today, I think, well, I could do one 500 box. 250 00:20:13,717.1819857 --> 00:20:18,547.1819857 And that very quickly sometimes leads to, you know, a thousand words, 1,500 a chapter. 251 00:20:18,807.1819857 --> 00:20:19,217.1819857 I love that. 252 00:20:19,217.1819857 --> 00:20:25,757.1819857 I can see the, I was about to say, I could see the primary school teacher in you coming out, and then you mentioned the hard drugs, so maybe not. 253 00:20:27,97.1819857 --> 00:20:28,972.1819857 Also a very primary school teacher thing. 254 00:20:28,972.1819857 --> 00:20:29,212.1819857 Yeah. 255 00:20:31,37.1819857 --> 00:20:31,367.1819857 Brilliant. 256 00:20:31,367.1819857 --> 00:20:31,757.1819857 I love that. 257 00:20:31,757.1819857 --> 00:20:40,117.1819857 And if anyone wants to have a look, at that, who's listening, you can check out the full video on my YouTube channel @EleanorRayBooks if you'd like to see Chris's, coloring sheet there. 258 00:20:40,687.1819857 --> 00:20:42,967.1819857 so, so you think, just, just get on with it. 259 00:20:42,967.1819857 --> 00:20:44,437.1819857 Write 500 words at a time. 260 00:20:44,437.1819857 --> 00:20:47,407.1819857 Don't worry about getting a whole novel, novel written at first. 261 00:20:47,407.1819857 --> 00:20:58,472.1819857 Is that what you'd say to someone starting out? Yeah, the advice that I remember at the start during my first book was, I think it was from John Connolly, or Michael Connolly, one of the big Connollys. 262 00:20:58,852.1819857 --> 00:21:08,2.1819857 and I read it somewhere that they said, you know, if you move your story on a little bit each day, doesn't matter if it's a sentence or a page or a chapter. 263 00:21:09,157.1819857 --> 00:21:12,457.1819857 Just moving your story on is the important thing and keeping the momentum. 264 00:21:14,207.1819857 --> 00:21:15,617.1819857 Yeah, I think that's great advice. 265 00:21:15,917.1819857 --> 00:21:17,327.1819857 I trick myself as well. 266 00:21:17,327.1819857 --> 00:21:25,307.1819857 I'll write notes about what I'm going to write and then I won't delete them from the document until I've got a certain number of words so it doesn't feel like I'm losing something. 267 00:21:25,487.1819857 --> 00:21:26,777.1819857 Keep on moving forwards. 268 00:21:27,57.1819857 --> 00:21:30,507.1819857 and if I edit something, if I take something out, I get really depressed. 269 00:21:30,507.1819857 --> 00:21:35,832.1819857 If I then see the word count shrink, so I just kind of copy and paste it into the bottom of the document and 'cause maybe I'll use it later. 270 00:21:36,502.1819857 --> 00:21:37,612.1819857 but it, but it tricks me. 271 00:21:37,762.1819857 --> 00:21:41,272.1819857 And then I have to, and then I have a depressing moment at the end where I have a big chunk of words. 272 00:21:41,272.1819857 --> 00:21:42,982.1819857 It's like, oh no, that is actually coming out. 273 00:21:44,62.1819857 --> 00:21:44,812.1819857 It's getting shorter. 274 00:21:45,262.1819857 --> 00:21:48,472.1819857 But often by that point, you've got enough, enough for a novel anyway, so it's all right. 275 00:21:48,892.1819857 --> 00:21:51,492.1819857 now, you must love to read. 276 00:21:51,552.1819857 --> 00:21:52,782.1819857 Most writers do. 277 00:21:52,992.1819857 --> 00:22:06,402.1819857 Is there a book you've read recently that you really loved, but maybe something that isn't a bestseller, something we won't all have heard of, that you really think deserves a bit more attention than it's had? there's a series that I love and the third one came out recently. 278 00:22:06,502.1819857 --> 00:22:16,72.1819857 it's by Jonathan Ames, who wrote, You Were Never Really Here, which was a short novella and it was turned into a film starring Joaquin Phoenix. 279 00:22:16,812.1819857 --> 00:22:19,512.1819857 but he released this book called A Man Named Doll. 280 00:22:19,587.1819857 --> 00:22:25,697.1819857 And it's a PI book set in, America, in LA the main character is called Happy Doll. 281 00:22:27,167.1819857 --> 00:22:31,67.1819857 and it's funny, but it's dark and it's violent, and. 282 00:22:32,192.1819857 --> 00:22:37,682.1819857 It's really hard to explain, but the three books are just some of the best fiction that I've ever read. 283 00:22:37,832.1819857 --> 00:22:46,312.1819857 he's, he's an incredible author because he is written this, but he's also written, a book called Wake Up Sir, which is kind of like Jeeves and Wooster Okay. 284 00:22:46,492.1819857 --> 00:22:47,322.1819857 I love Jeeves and Wooster. 285 00:22:47,642.1819857 --> 00:22:49,652.1819857 Which, and it is hilarious. 286 00:22:49,772.1819857 --> 00:23:07,877.1819857 he's obsessed with this woman with the best nose he's ever seen and, and his whole sort of, the whole book is about him trying to find her, but it's, and again, it veers into violence and drugs and I just think he's such a unique author that whatever he turns his hand to, pulls off. 287 00:23:08,227.1819857 --> 00:23:10,967.1819857 and it's published by, Pushkin Vertigo. 288 00:23:11,27.1819857 --> 00:23:15,737.1819857 So not like a massive, a massively well-known series. 289 00:23:15,737.1819857 --> 00:23:16,577.1819857 I don't think so. 290 00:23:16,627.1819857 --> 00:23:18,922.1819857 if more people could read that, then that would make me happy. 291 00:23:20,72.1819857 --> 00:23:20,732.1819857 Great tip. 292 00:23:20,732.1819857 --> 00:23:21,812.1819857 Thank you very much. 293 00:23:22,172.1819857 --> 00:23:27,422.1819857 Now talking of happiness, apart from writing, we've heard you enjoy pretty much every stage of the process. 294 00:23:27,572.1819857 --> 00:23:32,922.1819857 What else do you enjoy in life? What brings you happiness? good question. 295 00:23:33,102.1819857 --> 00:23:43,192.1819857 since it's strange, since I was diagnosed with, with, type one Diabetes, it sort of makes you see life when you've been in a hospital bed fading. 296 00:23:43,937.1819857 --> 00:23:44,567.1819857 Differently. 297 00:23:44,717.1819857 --> 00:23:50,27.1819857 and so I try to sort of say yes to lots of things. 298 00:23:50,237.1819857 --> 00:23:55,577.1819857 and most recently I was in a band at uni, so like, yeah, maybe 15, 16 years ago. 299 00:23:55,637.1819857 --> 00:23:58,757.1819857 And I loved it and I sort of stopped playing guitar for a while. 300 00:23:59,297.1819857 --> 00:24:05,157.1819857 and then about a year ago, maybe not even that, I put out this ad on Facebook on a Manchester. 301 00:24:05,157.1819857 --> 00:24:08,757.1819857 Musicians want it saying, does anyone fancy playing Some. 302 00:24:09,552.1819857 --> 00:24:15,682.1819857 Pop punk from our teenage years we've had about seven or eight practices, and we played our first gig recently. 303 00:24:15,742.1819857 --> 00:24:23,692.1819857 But playing music again with, with, you know, people that were strangers but that are now, you know, very, considered very good friends, has filled me with so much joy. 304 00:24:24,262.1819857 --> 00:24:30,592.1819857 I thought I'd be terrified going on stage again as a sort of nearly 4-year-old man with a, you know, bad back and all that. 305 00:24:31,492.1819857 --> 00:24:33,702.1819857 But, it's, yeah, it is just been so much fun. 306 00:24:33,852.1819857 --> 00:24:44,987.1819857 So that is a big thing at the moment in my life where we've got gigs coming up and we're, you know, discussing songs and just about sort of reliving those teenage years of, discovery. 307 00:24:45,137.1819857 --> 00:24:46,97.1819857 So that's been fun. 308 00:24:46,637.1819857 --> 00:24:47,927.1819857 I do enjoy going outside. 309 00:24:47,927.1819857 --> 00:24:49,397.1819857 I cannot stand gardening. 310 00:24:49,467.1819857 --> 00:24:53,120.9319857 so my outside is, and I'm scared of every insect going. 311 00:24:53,398.7444857 --> 00:25:00,170.9319857 so I say I like going outside, but, and I'm, I, he, I'm, because I'm Northern Irish, well, I dunno if it's because I'm Northern Irish, but. 312 00:25:00,955.9319857 --> 00:25:07,105.9319857 That's what I blame it on, but I don't like being hot either, so once it gets to about 15 degrees, sweating. 313 00:25:07,375.9319857 --> 00:25:12,865.9319857 So kind of the summertime when, when all the insects are out in the suns out is my worst time of year. 314 00:25:12,925.9319857 --> 00:25:17,665.9319857 So, as we approach the blackness of, of, of winter, this is when I come into my happy time. 315 00:25:18,395.9319857 --> 00:25:21,545.9319857 So you like, like being outside in very carefully controlled conditions. 316 00:25:21,845.9319857 --> 00:25:23,530.9319857 Yeah, okay. 317 00:25:23,570.9319857 --> 00:25:23,830.9319857 Brilliant. 318 00:25:23,880.9319857 --> 00:25:26,580.9319857 if the, if the moon could be out at, by 4:00 PM. 319 00:25:27,525.9319857 --> 00:25:28,5.9319857 I'm over. 320 00:25:28,95.9319857 --> 00:25:28,605.9319857 I'm over it. 321 00:25:29,140.9319857 --> 00:25:29,890.9319857 Okay, great. 322 00:25:30,100.9319857 --> 00:25:37,510.9319857 And do you have any tips specifically for the festive season? You are a Christmas expert now, now you've written your, your Christmas books. 323 00:25:37,630.9319857 --> 00:25:43,30.9319857 Any tips for getting through Christmas? Preferably without chopping off body parts and wrapping them up. 324 00:25:44,145.9319857 --> 00:25:44,415.9319857 Yeah, yeah. 325 00:25:44,415.9319857 --> 00:25:47,175.9319857 Tip one, if, if it looks foot shaped, don't open it. 326 00:25:48,675.9319857 --> 00:25:49,875.9319857 or call the police first. 327 00:25:50,215.9319857 --> 00:26:02,730.9319857 And so I'd say even though families might drive each other crazy at some point with, you know, being in a, a combustible house with people cooking and stuff, I think it is just embracing all that kind of. 328 00:26:03,415.9319857 --> 00:26:04,375.9319857 All that stuff. 329 00:26:04,495.9319857 --> 00:26:20,875.9319857 I realize now that my children are nine and seven, or will be at Christmas, and you know, the things that they're choosing for Christmas are changing and, and it's very quickly made me realize that things change really quickly and. 330 00:26:22,495.9319857 --> 00:26:27,435.9319857 I think it's just about sort of being in that moment and embracing, you know, everything that comes with it Yes. 331 00:26:28,395.9319857 --> 00:26:41,995.9319857 So can you tell us a little bit about upcoming projects? What do you have coming up next? so yes, as I mentioned, there will be a Christmas book three, that has not been announced anywhere yet, so don't tell anyone. 332 00:26:42,295.9319857 --> 00:26:43,70.9319857 You heard it here first. 333 00:26:43,100.9319857 --> 00:26:49,245.9319857 and then, yeah, and then, so that'll be, yeah, around this time next year, sometime in November. 334 00:26:49,685.9319857 --> 00:26:50,525.9319857 and then in. 335 00:26:52,10.9319857 --> 00:26:53,960.9319857 June, I think it is May or June. 336 00:26:54,130.9319857 --> 00:26:58,770.9319857 there's a new series that Harper North have bought, and it's gonna be under Chris McDonald. 337 00:26:59,790.9319857 --> 00:27:14,700.9319857 it's a PI series set in Manchester about a, a man called Ethan wins the lottery, goes home to tell his wife about his or their, I think nine point something million win. 338 00:27:15,810.9319857 --> 00:27:18,600.9319857 and when he goes in, she's dead at the bottom of the stairs. 339 00:27:19,920.9319857 --> 00:27:20,460.9319857 so. 340 00:27:21,120.9319857 --> 00:27:21,840.9319857 From the outset. 341 00:27:21,840.9319857 --> 00:27:26,190.9319857 There's suspicion in him when he opens up his private investigation firm a few months later. 342 00:27:26,670.9319857 --> 00:27:33,480.9319857 but he only did it not, he only opened the firm because he wants answers for people, like he wants answers for himself. 343 00:27:34,600.9319857 --> 00:27:35,455.9319857 It's really exciting. 344 00:27:35,455.9319857 --> 00:27:36,25.9319857 I love that. 345 00:27:36,25.9319857 --> 00:27:37,105.9319857 I love that premise. 346 00:27:37,165.9319857 --> 00:27:37,975.9319857 Really interesting. 347 00:27:37,975.9319857 --> 00:27:39,625.9319857 Winning the lottery and then finding your wife dead. 348 00:27:39,715.9319857 --> 00:27:40,135.9319857 Ooh. 349 00:27:40,645.9319857 --> 00:27:41,335.9319857 Oh, I love it. 350 00:27:41,395.9319857 --> 00:27:42,180.9319857 Looking forward to that one. 351 00:27:43,785.9319857 --> 00:27:44,235.9319857 I'll be sure. 352 00:27:44,235.9319857 --> 00:27:45,495.9319857 I'll be sure to get you a copy. 353 00:27:45,525.9319857 --> 00:27:46,170.9319857 It's called The Wrong Man. 354 00:27:47,50.9319857 --> 00:27:47,590.9319857 Thank you very much. 355 00:27:47,590.9319857 --> 00:27:48,220.9319857 The wrong man. 356 00:27:48,280.9319857 --> 00:27:48,820.9319857 Brilliant. 357 00:27:49,240.9319857 --> 00:27:49,870.9319857 Thank you. 358 00:27:49,870.9319857 --> 00:27:51,70.9319857 Thank you so much, Chris. 359 00:27:51,70.9319857 --> 00:27:52,930.9319857 And thank you to you for listening. 360 00:27:53,350.9319857 --> 00:27:57,130.9319857 The Christmas Tree Killer, Chris's second festive thriller is available now. 361 00:27:57,370.9319857 --> 00:28:03,880.9319857 Perfect to curl up with on a snow evening, or give as a slightly spine tingling gift for the Christmas book lover in your life. 362 00:28:04,880.9319857 --> 00:28:08,840.9319857 So if you've enjoyed Ray of Light, please do like and subscribe for more. 363 00:28:09,230.9319857 --> 00:28:14,0.9319857 You can find me @EleanorRayBooks across Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X. 364 00:28:14,180.9319857 --> 00:28:22,130.9319857 And if you are listening and would like to see it in full video glory, you can check out my YouTube channel and please do reach out and let me know your thoughts. 365 00:28:22,280.9319857 --> 00:28:25,520.9319857 I love hearing from you, especially as we get into the festive season. 366 00:28:26,920.9319857 --> 00:28:30,30.9319857 If you've liked what you had, you might like what I write too. 367 00:28:30,220.9319857 --> 00:28:40,0.9319857 It's uplifting book, club fiction stories, like Everything is Beautiful, and See the Stars that spark deep conversations and bring a little hope and light to the long winter nights. 368 00:28:40,600.9319857 --> 00:28:48,765.9319857 We have one more special Christmas episode coming this December, so stay tuned for more festive tips on writing, reading, and happiness.
As the nights grow longer and the festive light start to twinkle, I'm excited to bring you my first ever special Christmas episode.
I write books that are about finding light in dark times and the strength in vulnerability.
Perfect for cozy.
(00:28):
winter evenings with a cup of something warm.
But my next guest has written something even more Christmasy and much darker. 7 00:00:37,936.244485673 --> 00:00:45,736.244485673 I'm thrilled to welcome Chris McDonald who writes his Christmas crime books as Chris Frost, his second festive thriller. 8 00:00:45,826.244485673 --> 00:00:54,496.244485673 The Christmas Tree Killer has just been published set against snow swept landscapes, and featuring a killer who leaves chilling gifts under the Christmas tree. 9 00:00:54,766.244485673 --> 00:01:00,246.244485673 It's the perfect read for anyone who likes a little holiday suspense alongside their mince pies. 10 00:01:00,246.244485673 --> 00:01:02,256.244485673 Thank you so much for joining us, Chris. 11 00:01:05,256.244485673 --> 00:01:12,926.244485673 Now you write under two names, festively under Chris Frost, and the Christmas Tree Killer is your second Christmas crime novel. 12 00:01:13,166.244485673 --> 00:01:26,126.244485673 Can you tell us a little bit more about that book and about what drew you to writing festive thrillers? the Christmas Tree Killer is the second in the DI Tom Stonem series, the first of which was The Killer's Christmas List. 13 00:01:26,466.244485673 --> 00:01:32,136.244485673 the second one is, it can be read as a standalone, so you know, you don't have to know anything about Tom. 14 00:01:32,596.244485673 --> 00:01:37,456.244485673 in the first chapter there's a woman called Madison, who's a hiker who wants to trek the Pennine way. 15 00:01:37,506.244485673 --> 00:01:44,64.99448567 she's just outside the town of Holt which is sort of in the center of England towards Carlisle, up near the Scottish border. 16 00:01:44,514.99448567 --> 00:01:53,364.99448567 And, even though it's snowy and it's blowing a gale and things like that, she decides to carry on and about halfway through it, the conditions are worse than she thought. 17 00:01:53,364.99448567 --> 00:02:05,401.24448567 So actually she I'm gonna turn back and as she does, she spies this present under one of the, the fur trees And she figures that it's probably from her fiance because you know, it's desolate and no one else knows she's here. 18 00:02:06,374.99448567 --> 00:02:10,94.99448567 She thinks it's gonna be a fleece or a new pair of boots or something, something like that. 19 00:02:10,464.99448567 --> 00:02:12,414.99448567 but when she goes and. 20 00:02:13,719.99448567 --> 00:02:14,379.99448567 Grabs it. 21 00:02:14,559.99448567 --> 00:02:20,919.99448567 She's hit by a pretty horrible smell and a drop of blood pours out of a hole in it. 22 00:02:21,99.99448567 --> 00:02:23,439.99448567 And the first word of the second chapter is a foot. 23 00:02:23,839.99448567 --> 00:02:25,9.99448567 so you Love that moment. 24 00:02:25,309.99448567 --> 00:02:29,854.99448567 a, someone has wrapped a foot, and there was a, a gift tag on it for Madison. 25 00:02:29,854.99448567 --> 00:02:30,994.99448567 So it was definitely for her. 26 00:02:31,984.99448567 --> 00:02:32,674.99448567 so Tom. 27 00:02:33,634.99448567 --> 00:02:46,174.99448567 Who's usually based over Newcastle Way, has been asked to go and lend this sort of smaller team, his expertise, in the hunt for a killer or a someone that delivers festive, horrible presents. 28 00:02:46,954.99448567 --> 00:02:51,719.99448567 I love it and I, I have to say I really enjoyed your book and I love that moment where she got that present. 29 00:02:51,719.99448567 --> 00:02:53,849.99448567 And what I found most chilling was that it said her name on. 30 00:02:53,874.99448567 --> 00:02:55,589.99448567 It, it had a gift tag for her. 31 00:02:55,709.99448567 --> 00:03:01,19.99448567 She's like, yeah, I dunno whether it's better to find a foot that it's addressed to you or a foot that's not addressed to you. 32 00:03:01,19.99448567 --> 00:03:02,99.99448567 I think I'd rather one not. 33 00:03:03,439.99448567 --> 00:03:06,859.99448567 It's a great, yeah, you could do a poll and see what, see what people's thoughts are. 34 00:03:08,759.99448567 --> 00:03:09,659.99448567 Brilliant idea. 35 00:03:09,959.99448567 --> 00:03:12,794.99448567 Now, your first, Christmas book was a hit with readers. 36 00:03:12,854.99448567 --> 00:03:25,209.99448567 How did that story lead you to this one and is there something special about Christmas that really called to you? The first one was sort of a leap into the unknown because I'd never had a pseudonym before and it was with a new publisher. 37 00:03:25,519.99448567 --> 00:03:29,599.99448567 previously I'd been with an indie publisher, Red Dog Press, who I absolutely loved. 38 00:03:29,719.99448567 --> 00:03:33,632.49448567 and then this opportunity came along to, to go to Harper North, and. 39 00:03:34,654.99448567 --> 00:03:36,244.99448567 It was a much bigger machine. 40 00:03:36,244.99448567 --> 00:03:41,54.99448567 So there were lots of discussions with editors about, you know, what, the story would be and the tone and things like that. 41 00:03:41,54.99448567 --> 00:03:42,734.99448567 So it was really interesting way to do it. 42 00:03:42,944.99448567 --> 00:03:51,254.99448567 and yeah, sort of building Tom was a really fun thing to do because the story called for a specific type of person. 43 00:03:51,974.99448567 --> 00:03:56,644.99448567 So building Tom To be in the role that he needed to be was really fun. 44 00:03:56,804.99448567 --> 00:03:59,34.99448567 the first one went down really well. 45 00:03:59,84.99448567 --> 00:04:02,414.99448567 and I really loved writing it and, and the reactions were just fantastic. 46 00:04:02,524.99448567 --> 00:04:05,554.99448567 and then as I started to write the second one in January 24. 47 00:04:06,994.99448567 --> 00:04:09,64.99448567 my vision was really blurry and I was having a sort of. 48 00:04:09,794.99448567 --> 00:04:11,354.99448567 Not a very nice time in my body. 49 00:04:12,294.99448567 --> 00:04:18,49.99448567 and I, the next day after writing it, I took myself to hospital and I was very quickly diagnosed with Type one diabetes. 50 00:04:18,349.99448567 --> 00:04:18,859.99448567 goodness. 51 00:04:19,554.99448567 --> 00:04:24,204.99448567 so my vision was like, I thought I was going blind and all, all kinds of stuff. 52 00:04:24,209.99448567 --> 00:04:32,879.99448567 Harper North were amazing because I left a big gaping hole in their Christmas schedule for 2024, but then we delayed it by a year and, and I got on track. 53 00:04:32,929.99448567 --> 00:04:49,579.99448567 And obviously without giving spoilers, something happens at the end of the first book that leaves Tom in a sort of a position where he could have gotten out of the police or, or stayed in and taken him out of where the first book happened to somewhere else was. 54 00:04:49,634.99448567 --> 00:04:51,109.99448567 Was a move that I thought would be good. 55 00:04:52,129.99448567 --> 00:04:58,559.99448567 seeing a therapist, and he sort of suggests, you know, walking and, and getting out into open spaces would be good for him. 56 00:04:58,709.99448567 --> 00:05:05,429.99448567 So this opportunity to, I mean, it's not an amazing opportunity to go investigate someone who's leaving, you know, body parts for people. 57 00:05:05,759.99448567 --> 00:05:09,149.99448567 but it meant getting out of where he was and where the action of the first book had happened. 58 00:05:09,179.99448567 --> 00:05:15,199.99448567 And I quite like when books move around, so that was quite a good opportunity to go and explore a different place. 59 00:05:15,779.99448567 --> 00:05:16,49.99448567 Yes. 60 00:05:16,49.99448567 --> 00:05:17,399.99448567 I love the change in atmosphere. 61 00:05:17,399.99448567 --> 00:05:18,569.99448567 I haven't read the first book yet. 62 00:05:18,569.99448567 --> 00:05:20,219.99448567 I'm going to for this Christmas. 63 00:05:20,519.99448567 --> 00:05:21,399.99448567 but it's nice to take how. 64 00:05:21,449.99448567 --> 00:05:24,989.99448567 Characters from, from a particular setting and put somewhere, with a bit more space. 65 00:05:25,119.99448567 --> 00:05:29,229.99448567 we'll get onto what kind of makes you happy as an author later. 66 00:05:29,229.99448567 --> 00:05:36,729.99448567 But one thing that a lot of authors have said to me is just getting outside and walking and being in the fresh air is great. 67 00:05:36,729.99448567 --> 00:05:44,69.99448567 It brings them a lot of joy and hopefully it does for, for DI Tom Stonem as well, although albeit littered with, packages filled with body parts. 68 00:05:44,69.99448567 --> 00:05:44,399.99448567 Hmm. 69 00:05:44,769.99448567 --> 00:05:45,59.99448567 Yeah. 70 00:05:46,59.99448567 --> 00:05:51,409.99448567 Now, he has to navigate this very terrifying case in a very atmospheric environment, as we've discussed. 71 00:05:51,559.99448567 --> 00:05:58,319.99448567 How do you approach your character development when he's in this intense situation? You've mentioned, getting him some therapy already. 72 00:05:58,469.99448567 --> 00:06:06,169.99448567 What else do you do to kind of help him along this, this festive route? well at the start I thought it was just gonna be him. 73 00:06:06,229.99448567 --> 00:06:10,929.99448567 So in the first book, there's a, a team, and often in detective books, the team don't. 74 00:06:11,219.99448567 --> 00:06:16,119.99448567 It on, for a bit of tension, but I decided quite early on that the team were gonna get on. 75 00:06:16,119.99448567 --> 00:06:19,119.99448567 So in the first book, they're all really good friends. 76 00:06:19,119.99448567 --> 00:06:23,379.99448567 He's kind of new, to the area, but he's welcomed in and, and everyone gets on. 77 00:06:23,429.99448567 --> 00:06:27,839.99448567 and that was quite important to me because I wanted to do something a little bit different. 78 00:06:28,769.99448567 --> 00:06:37,819.99448567 in the second one, my original intention was to take him up somewhere else alone have him have to go through this investigation by himself. 79 00:06:38,629.99448567 --> 00:06:45,749.99448567 But when it came to writing it, his partner, DS, Lauren Ray, it felt weird without her. 80 00:06:45,994.99448567 --> 00:06:50,134.99448567 and I thought I really liked writing her in the first book. 81 00:06:50,134.99448567 --> 00:06:51,424.99448567 She plays an important part. 82 00:06:51,894.99448567 --> 00:07:07,954.99448567 so I thought when it came to writing this, actually I felt like Tom probably would've said, can Lauren come? So I kind of felt like it was important that if the team weren't gonna be in it, someone familiar was, So I thought it was important that she was there for a little bit of, almost like an emotional crutch at times for him. 83 00:07:08,24.99448567 --> 00:07:16,504.99448567 someone to be able to bounce ideas off and things like that, especially with the people that they meet when they're there that, he maybe doesn't get on quite so well with. 84 00:07:16,889.99448567 --> 00:07:17,489.99448567 Yes. 85 00:07:17,599.99448567 --> 00:07:19,39.99448567 I like having people getting on. 86 00:07:19,219.99448567 --> 00:07:21,559.99448567 'cause as I said, I write, I write quite uplifting stuff. 87 00:07:21,559.99448567 --> 00:07:23,179.99448567 I've still got plenty of conflict in there. 88 00:07:23,359.99448567 --> 00:07:27,129.99448567 But especially when you are writing a Christmas book, you've got very dark things happening. 89 00:07:27,409.99448567 --> 00:07:28,729.99448567 a, in a festive atmosphere. 90 00:07:28,729.99448567 --> 00:07:29,929.99448567 Do you think something about. 91 00:07:30,69.99448567 --> 00:07:34,209.99448567 Wanting people to get on at Christmas might have influenced that decision at all. 92 00:07:35,324.99448567 --> 00:07:37,629.99448567 I think so, and I think the fact that there's so much. 93 00:07:38,179.99448567 --> 00:07:39,199.99448567 tension and Hmm. 94 00:07:39,829.99448567 --> 00:07:40,639.99448567 elsewhere. 95 00:07:40,669.99448567 --> 00:07:50,719.99448567 I think when, when people come to work, they should, I know people at work don't get on, but in my book I thought it was important that kind of all the, all the horrible stuff happened outside the work walls. 96 00:07:50,749.99448567 --> 00:07:56,479.99448567 And when they were together, they were a good team that could sort of bounce ideas off each other and, and things like that. 97 00:07:56,479.99448567 --> 00:08:05,114.99448567 So, yeah, I, I felt like sometimes if I read a book and it's just like constant bickering everywhere, it's like, where's the downtime? Or, you know. 98 00:08:05,744.99448567 --> 00:08:05,964.99448567 Yes. 99 00:08:06,109.99448567 --> 00:08:12,649.99448567 I went to work and I was constantly bickering with people, I'd just think, well, I'd leave or, you know, I can't be bothered with this. 100 00:08:12,949.99448567 --> 00:08:18,919.99448567 So yeah, I kind of wanted to be that juxtaposition of happy work, horrible investigation. 101 00:08:19,964.99448567 --> 00:08:26,29.99448567 So can you tell me a little bit about your path to publication, how you, how you started off, and then how. 102 00:08:26,179.99448567 --> 00:08:28,459.99448567 You made this journey to being a full-time writer. 103 00:08:29,404.99448567 --> 00:08:29,794.99448567 Yeah. 104 00:08:29,954.99448567 --> 00:08:39,314.99448567 so probably about 15 years ago when I was at uni, I had an initial idea for, for a chapter of a book. 105 00:08:39,534.99448567 --> 00:08:43,554.99448567 and it was, I saw it as a kind of film, so it was a ice rink. 106 00:08:44,664.99448567 --> 00:08:53,544.99448567 There was a body on it, and I saw like the, the camera rise to, to show, you know, the, the very bright white of the ice with red spreading across it. 107 00:08:53,924.99448567 --> 00:08:54,619.99448567 So lovely. 108 00:08:54,919.99448567 --> 00:08:55,584.99448567 body in the middle. 109 00:08:56,154.99448567 --> 00:08:56,814.99448567 and I'd been reading it. 110 00:08:56,814.99448567 --> 00:08:59,814.99448567 I, you know, crime had always been my genre that I enjoyed reading. 111 00:08:59,814.99448567 --> 00:09:08,634.99448567 So, I had that idea and I thought, well, you know, I'd quite like to write that I was studying English as well as teaching at the time, but because. 112 00:09:09,69.99448567 --> 00:09:12,549.99448567 Authors were my rock stars or the people that I looked up to. 113 00:09:12,639.99448567 --> 00:09:17,719.99448567 I thought, well, someone like me can't just sit down and write a chapter of a book. 114 00:09:17,719.99448567 --> 00:09:21,819.99448567 Like that's, that's a job that, know, very famous people do. 115 00:09:22,779.99448567 --> 00:09:25,313.43198567 So I put it away for maybe 13 years or so. 116 00:09:25,793.43198567 --> 00:09:30,323.43198567 and then when I moved up to Manchester, I started playing five aside football with these guys. 117 00:09:30,383.43198567 --> 00:09:33,893.43198567 And four weeks in, I heard two of them discussing. 118 00:09:35,333.43198567 --> 00:09:45,623.43198567 and I quickly find out that they were authors I thought, ah, well if they can, you know, if, if they're just normal people that I'm playing football with, if they can have a go at writing a book, then maybe I can too. 119 00:09:46,43.43198567 --> 00:09:56,693.43198567 So I sort of dug this idea out of my memory again and, and went home and wrote that chapter, and thought, you know, that's, it's kind of out of my system now. 120 00:09:56,743.43198567 --> 00:10:02,563.43198567 What's the point in writing a whole book? 'cause no one will ever read it and it's a massive waste of or so I thought. 121 00:10:03,253.43198567 --> 00:10:09,883.43198567 so I kinda left it and then a few days later, obviously my brain had been working and I thought, oh, well I kind of know what would happen in chapter two now. 122 00:10:10,633.43198567 --> 00:10:11,623.43198567 I kind of just went like that. 123 00:10:12,493.43198567 --> 00:10:20,743.43198567 And I wrote, and I wrote, and when it was finished, I didn't know anything about editing agents, how, how it all worked. 124 00:10:21,133.43198567 --> 00:10:22,603.43198567 So I sent it to. 125 00:10:23,788.43198567 --> 00:10:26,587.18198567 that was accepting, you know, unsolicited manuscripts. 126 00:10:26,597.18198567 --> 00:10:33,827.18198567 I sent it a few, maybe three or four, and Red Dog got back in touch and he said, you know, I love it and you know, we'd love to publish it and things like that. 127 00:10:34,217.18198567 --> 00:10:36,132.18198567 so I said yes, and then I. 128 00:10:36,797.18198567 --> 00:10:45,617.18198567 By four weeks later, I got my first edits back and I, I remember sending my wife, he told me he loved this book and look how much he wants me to change. 129 00:10:46,37.18198567 --> 00:10:47,117.18198567 And I was like, so I'm not doing it. 130 00:10:47,117.18198567 --> 00:10:48,197.18198567 I've not signed a contract. 131 00:10:48,197.18198567 --> 00:10:49,637.18198567 You know, I'm, I'm not changing it. 132 00:10:49,997.18198567 --> 00:10:51,947.18198567 And she was like, well, you know, think about it. 133 00:10:51,947.18198567 --> 00:10:53,837.18198567 He knows, he knows what he's talking about. 134 00:10:54,447.18198567 --> 00:10:56,372.18198567 She sounds very wise, your wife. 135 00:10:57,17.18198567 --> 00:10:59,87.18198567 Yeah, she's like the, yeah, the voice on my shoulder. 136 00:10:59,87.18198567 --> 00:11:01,487.18198567 That's like, just, just take a moment. 137 00:11:02,327.18198567 --> 00:11:07,547.18198567 so yeah, I took a moment and I went back to the email and thought, well, actually, you know, he's right about that. 138 00:11:07,547.18198567 --> 00:11:17,957.18198567 And I, he's, yeah, and, and every point he made, I agreed with, so yeah, that came out in 2020, just as lockdown was about to hit. 139 00:11:18,137.18198567 --> 00:11:19,612.18198567 It was a Chris McDonald book. 140 00:11:20,412.18198567 --> 00:11:24,822.18198567 It was, yeah, so my first 10 Chris McDonald books. 141 00:11:24,852.18198567 --> 00:11:29,422.18198567 So I did a, a trilogy of, police procedurals with, Erica Piper in them. 142 00:11:30,262.18198567 --> 00:11:34,102.18198567 six cozy crime novellas set in a fictional northern Irish town. 143 00:11:34,582.18198567 --> 00:11:38,792.18198567 And then I did a private investigator book set in Denver, in America. 144 00:11:39,92.18198567 --> 00:11:43,82.18198567 And then Red Dogs, sadly closed, shut up shop. 145 00:11:43,382.18198567 --> 00:11:46,112.18198567 and around that time I'd been talking to an editor at Harper. 146 00:11:46,592.18198567 --> 00:11:47,912.18198567 Collins called Daisy. 147 00:11:48,62.18198567 --> 00:11:51,252.18198567 And, and from that then, Chris Frost was born. 148 00:11:51,472.18198567 --> 00:11:53,122.18198567 and yeah, so we've done two of those. 149 00:11:53,872.18198567 --> 00:11:58,792.18198567 a third one on the way next Christmas and yeah, that brings us up to today. 150 00:11:59,787.18198567 --> 00:12:00,107.18198567 Excellent. 151 00:12:00,112.18198567 --> 00:12:04,132.18198567 And now you write, you write full-time, on your novels and also writing for podcasts. 152 00:12:05,202.18198567 --> 00:12:11,22.18198567 Yeah, so I started off as a writer for podcasts and then I'm now a producer, so, I started do a lot of behind the scenes. 153 00:12:11,352.18198567 --> 00:12:12,282.18198567 Organization. 154 00:12:12,372.18198567 --> 00:12:16,132.18198567 So it means that I don't get burnt out with words, which is Yes. 155 00:12:16,432.18198567 --> 00:12:17,562.18198567 sort of doing a day job. 156 00:12:18,432.18198567 --> 00:12:24,762.18198567 And I'm very blessed to do it where I was writing full time, I'd have dinner, then I'd to writing fiction. 157 00:12:24,862.18198567 --> 00:12:25,372.18198567 I loved it. 158 00:12:25,462.18198567 --> 00:12:28,132.18198567 And it, you know, it was everything I thought it would be. 159 00:12:28,252.18198567 --> 00:12:31,157.18198567 But this gives me a little bit more head space Oh. 160 00:12:31,282.18198567 --> 00:12:32,717.18198567 just the words for my novels. 161 00:12:33,17.18198567 --> 00:12:34,97.18198567 Yeah, that's nice. 162 00:12:34,97.18198567 --> 00:12:37,787.18198567 I used to, I started writing while I was also working full time. 163 00:12:38,97.18198567 --> 00:12:46,547.18198567 and I wasn't just writing, but I worked in financial marketing, so it's quite a lot of writing and I'd go from writing a, a marketing brochure, for some kind of financial product. 164 00:12:46,547.18198567 --> 00:12:47,567.18198567 And then I'd switch to. 165 00:12:47,727.18198567 --> 00:12:50,877.18198567 Writing, writing a, writing a book. 166 00:12:51,57.18198567 --> 00:12:52,977.18198567 And it's, it's very physically the same. 167 00:12:53,97.18198567 --> 00:13:06,927.18198567 So what I found is I'd sit at my desk during the day and write, write, write, and then to get home to trick myself that I was doing something else, I'd recline on my sofa and balance my laptop on my lap and write that way so that I just felt like I wasn't doing exactly the same thing for hours and hours and hours and hours. 168 00:13:07,797.18198567 --> 00:13:08,547.18198567 but yeah, it's tricky. 169 00:13:09,62.18198567 --> 00:13:11,192.18198567 Yeah, I write full time now, which is much nicer. 170 00:13:11,192.18198567 --> 00:13:17,352.18198567 And I've got, I've got three little kids, so they, they provide the distractions and the physically different thing to do. 171 00:13:18,162.18198567 --> 00:13:19,122.18198567 Tell me about your writing day. 172 00:13:20,197.18198567 --> 00:13:23,82.18198567 I work sort of nine to five, on the podcast. 173 00:13:23,937.18198567 --> 00:13:24,387.18198567 Stuff. 174 00:13:24,417.18198567 --> 00:13:25,407.18198567 that's my day job. 175 00:13:25,827.18198567 --> 00:13:28,977.18198567 in that I go and pick up the children and take them to school and things like that. 176 00:13:29,37.18198567 --> 00:13:39,477.18198567 And then probably, my children have always gone to bed and I'm gonna say this and it's gonna change, but when they were babies, they'd go to bed at like seven and pretty much sleep through. 177 00:13:39,657.18198567 --> 00:13:42,157.18198567 So I'm trying not to look really jealous. 178 00:13:43,527.18198567 --> 00:13:44,727.18198567 I know everyone hates me for it. 179 00:13:44,777.18198567 --> 00:13:47,657.18198567 And they still go to bed by like half seven. 180 00:13:47,657.18198567 --> 00:13:59,787.18198567 So, it kind of means that once they're in bed, I can kind of come in here and, and I've got a writing playlist that's a bit Pavlovian so that as soon as I hear the first notes always the same first song, it gets me into that zone. 181 00:14:00,292.18198567 --> 00:14:01,672.18198567 Oh, that's a really good tip. 182 00:14:01,882.18198567 --> 00:14:02,872.18198567 I'd never thought of that. 183 00:14:04,227.18198567 --> 00:14:06,717.18198567 Yeah, it's a strange thing and it's all instrumental. 184 00:14:06,747.18198567 --> 00:14:11,932.18198567 'cause I've tried writing with, you know, I, I could never focus if there were words in Yes. 185 00:14:12,582.18198567 --> 00:14:15,72.18198567 Instrumental guitars and Atmospheric. 186 00:14:15,72.18198567 --> 00:14:19,432.18198567 So yeah, the first song is a song called this, buy a band called This Will Destroy You. 187 00:14:19,822.18198567 --> 00:14:21,462.18198567 And yeah, it works every time. 188 00:14:22,512.18198567 --> 00:14:22,872.18198567 Yeah. 189 00:14:24,847.18198567 --> 00:14:27,337.18198567 Saw that heavy metal is actually one of your passions. 190 00:14:27,397.18198567 --> 00:14:39,77.18198567 Do you think it influences your writing at all? Maybe, yeah, when I was younger especially, I was into properly heavy stuff and a lot of it is, about blood and violence and I've mellowed now. 191 00:14:39,77.18198567 --> 00:14:46,257.18198567 I, I still listen to it a bit, but, I've recently started a sort of pop punk band, so like Blink 1, 8, 2, green Day, that kind of thing. 192 00:14:46,362.18198567 --> 00:14:46,652.18198567 Yeah. 193 00:14:46,887.18198567 --> 00:14:49,737.18198567 I think I've definitely mellowed in my sort of, middle age. 194 00:14:50,37.18198567 --> 00:14:50,497.18198567 Oh wow. 195 00:14:50,497.18198567 --> 00:14:51,127.18198567 Brilliant. 196 00:14:51,907.18198567 --> 00:15:00,512.18198567 Now, getting back to your writing, what part of the writing process brings you the most joy? Well, that's a great question. 197 00:15:00,782.18198567 --> 00:15:08,332.18198567 I think it's changed, you know, When I sort of didn't know what I was doing with my first couple of books, I wasn't a plotter at all. 198 00:15:08,362.18198567 --> 00:15:13,492.18198567 So I'd just, I'd write a chapter, I'd leave it a few days to see what my brain would come up with. 199 00:15:13,732.18198567 --> 00:15:17,402.18198567 I'd write the next chapter, which was an exciting way of doing it. 200 00:15:17,697.18198567 --> 00:15:37,377.18198567 Because you never knew where you were going, but it meant that once you got to the end, there was so much editing to do because connections between chapters or, you know, if you, if you did a clue in chapter five, but never mentioned it again, I find it, it meant that there was a lot of backwards work at the end. 201 00:15:37,827.18198567 --> 00:15:55,917.18198567 it's my fear with plotting was that it would take the fun out of the writing because you're kind of just transcribing what you've already thought of previously, but actually sitting down now with, with kind of a that I know roughly what's gonna happen. 202 00:15:56,952.18198567 --> 00:16:01,572.18198567 Saves a load of procrastination, I can kinda sit down and I can get on with it. 203 00:16:02,412.18198567 --> 00:16:15,292.18198567 And, I know where it's going, but I've left myself enough leeway to take it in a specific way or I always think it's, I don't wanna swear, but you know, when people say the characters do stuff that you didn't expect them to do, you're like, well. 204 00:16:15,712.18198567 --> 00:16:23,702.18198567 They're in your head, but genuinely it happens, where it's like, oh, well I thought I was going to, you know, go down this alley, but actually we're going down this one. 205 00:16:23,762.18198567 --> 00:16:29,782.18198567 And, there's still enough of leeway in the plotting to not take the fun out of that side of things. 206 00:16:31,622.18198567 --> 00:16:41,132.1819857 I think just the actual sitting down something that hasn't existed before is like really strange way to, to spend your time, but. 207 00:16:42,132.1819857 --> 00:16:42,527.1819857 I dunno. 208 00:16:42,617.1819857 --> 00:16:45,497.1819857 It, it just feels like the fun of it hasn't left yet. 209 00:16:45,822.1819857 --> 00:16:45,942.1819857 Yeah. 210 00:16:46,67.1819857 --> 00:16:49,7.1819857 I don't, I don't know, hopefully it never will. 211 00:16:49,357.1819857 --> 00:16:50,947.1819857 I'm also a massive fan of the edit. 212 00:16:51,127.1819857 --> 00:17:09,367.1819857 I love, I love on things because I think sometimes we're so in our own heads that we think, well, I've explained that well enough 'cause I know what it means, but when someone else reads it, and you obviously haven't, so I really like the collaboration side of it, of, of, you know, you've given them something. 213 00:17:11,32.1819857 --> 00:17:13,642.1819857 suggestions, you know, small fixes here and there. 214 00:17:14,122.1819857 --> 00:17:17,182.1819857 yeah, kind of the whole process, which is a really wide answer, so I'm sorry. 215 00:17:17,182.1819857 --> 00:17:21,22.1819857 But, I just, every process of it or every part of it, you know, still excites me. 216 00:17:22,67.1819857 --> 00:17:22,667.1819857 I love that. 217 00:17:22,667.1819857 --> 00:17:23,87.1819857 I love that. 218 00:17:23,87.1819857 --> 00:17:27,107.1819857 I'm finding, just finding the joy in everything that you do, but I am gonna press you. 219 00:17:27,227.1819857 --> 00:17:39,407.1819857 What's the hardest part when you, when you write, is there something that you do find quite difficult, and if so, how do you get through it? I think deciding what to write next Mm-hmm. 220 00:17:39,427.1819857 --> 00:17:45,917.1819857 know that's sort of, dictated by schedules and contracts and, you know, if you've signed a two book deal. 221 00:17:47,77.1819857 --> 00:18:00,592.1819857 The, the, the hard part sometimes is, you know, you have to write that, but there's an idea that you've thought of that you're so excited about that, no one else knows about because it's, it's gonna be five or six books down the line if it ever happens at all. 222 00:18:01,342.1819857 --> 00:18:11,282.1819857 kind of having this big sort of document of ideas, are waiting and will be waiting for years is, is a, you know, a frustrating, well, I dunno if frustrating is the right word. 223 00:18:12,542.1819857 --> 00:18:13,802.1819857 That you can't get to them right now. 224 00:18:13,982.1819857 --> 00:18:18,742.1819857 I'm quite an impatient person, and when I want to do something, I will work to make that happen. 225 00:18:19,92.1819857 --> 00:18:21,582.1819857 Okay, so you have a big document of ideas. 226 00:18:21,582.1819857 --> 00:18:22,272.1819857 That's interesting. 227 00:18:22,302.1819857 --> 00:18:28,682.1819857 'cause some of my other guests, their biggest writing fear is running out of ideas, not knowing what to write next, which hasn't happened. 228 00:18:28,682.1819857 --> 00:18:30,842.1819857 They've all written loads of books, loads of brilliant books. 229 00:18:30,962.1819857 --> 00:18:33,312.1819857 But you have a, little dossier of things you want to write. 230 00:18:34,492.1819857 --> 00:18:36,712.1819857 Yeah, it's just in my notes section on my phone. 231 00:18:36,712.1819857 --> 00:18:37,152.1819857 So I Okay. 232 00:18:37,312.1819857 --> 00:18:55,387.1819857 will write down a few sentences about, you know, you know, journalist in America investigating this and, and it's that small and sometimes they might come to absolutely nothing once I dig into it a bit deeper So But yeah, the fear of sort of being, being put on the spot for an idea, I can imagine would be quite terrifying. 233 00:18:56,717.1819857 --> 00:18:59,537.1819857 One of the reasons I write is because I rarely have to be put on the spot. 234 00:18:59,747.1819857 --> 00:19:03,257.1819857 I always have time to think and digest and, and prepare something. 235 00:19:03,287.1819857 --> 00:19:04,817.1819857 I hate pitching my own ideas. 236 00:19:04,817.1819857 --> 00:19:08,27.1819857 I kind of, I can put them in a document and so I can read you out the document. 237 00:19:08,27.1819857 --> 00:19:10,234.6819857 Oh my publisher going, oh, great. 238 00:19:11,397.1819857 --> 00:19:12,417.1819857 But it's always fun. 239 00:19:12,857.1819857 --> 00:19:17,117.1819857 so I wanted to ask you, we've talked a bit about your writing process. 240 00:19:17,117.1819857 --> 00:19:26,297.1819857 Do you have any tips for aspiring authors? Any advice you'd give to someone who wants to write a book? Think there's a book in them, but hasn't quite got there yet? Would you suggest. 241 00:19:27,352.1819857 --> 00:19:34,7.1819857 I think just doing it and, and you know, a lot of people have an idea. 242 00:19:35,387.1819857 --> 00:19:42,947.1819857 actually just having that discipline to sit down and, and, you know, slog away at 80,000, 90,000 words is, is a daunting task. 243 00:19:43,367.1819857 --> 00:19:45,47.1819857 I dunno if I, oh, I have it handy here. 244 00:19:45,47.1819857 --> 00:19:52,217.1819857 So what I do is, at the start of a book, I print off these, and it's a really lofi way, so each one says 500. 245 00:19:52,567.1819857 --> 00:19:56,377.1819857 so when I write 500 words, I color in a box, Oh. 246 00:19:56,887.1819857 --> 00:19:57,397.1819857 and it's. 247 00:19:57,757.1819857 --> 00:20:02,437.1819857 Really manageable, but the endorphin hit is like what I imagine hard drugs is like. 248 00:20:02,827.1819857 --> 00:20:07,417.1819857 so I highlight it, I write the date on it, and then very quickly you build it up. 249 00:20:07,717.1819857 --> 00:20:13,587.1819857 And some days when I think I cannot be bothered today, I think, well, I could do one 500 box. 250 00:20:13,717.1819857 --> 00:20:18,547.1819857 And that very quickly sometimes leads to, you know, a thousand words, 1,500 a chapter. 251 00:20:18,807.1819857 --> 00:20:19,217.1819857 I love that. 252 00:20:19,217.1819857 --> 00:20:25,757.1819857 I can see the, I was about to say, I could see the primary school teacher in you coming out, and then you mentioned the hard drugs, so maybe not. 253 00:20:27,97.1819857 --> 00:20:28,972.1819857 Also a very primary school teacher thing. 254 00:20:28,972.1819857 --> 00:20:29,212.1819857 Yeah. 255 00:20:31,37.1819857 --> 00:20:31,367.1819857 Brilliant. 256 00:20:31,367.1819857 --> 00:20:31,757.1819857 I love that. 257 00:20:31,757.1819857 --> 00:20:40,117.1819857 And if anyone wants to have a look, at that, who's listening, you can check out the full video on my YouTube channel @EleanorRayBooks if you'd like to see Chris's, coloring sheet there. 258 00:20:40,687.1819857 --> 00:20:42,967.1819857 so, so you think, just, just get on with it. 259 00:20:42,967.1819857 --> 00:20:44,437.1819857 Write 500 words at a time. 260 00:20:44,437.1819857 --> 00:20:47,407.1819857 Don't worry about getting a whole novel, novel written at first. 261 00:20:47,407.1819857 --> 00:20:58,472.1819857 Is that what you'd say to someone starting out? Yeah, the advice that I remember at the start during my first book was, I think it was from John Connolly, or Michael Connolly, one of the big Connollys. 262 00:20:58,852.1819857 --> 00:21:08,2.1819857 and I read it somewhere that they said, you know, if you move your story on a little bit each day, doesn't matter if it's a sentence or a page or a chapter. 263 00:21:09,157.1819857 --> 00:21:12,457.1819857 Just moving your story on is the important thing and keeping the momentum. 264 00:21:14,207.1819857 --> 00:21:15,617.1819857 Yeah, I think that's great advice. 265 00:21:15,917.1819857 --> 00:21:17,327.1819857 I trick myself as well. 266 00:21:17,327.1819857 --> 00:21:25,307.1819857 I'll write notes about what I'm going to write and then I won't delete them from the document until I've got a certain number of words so it doesn't feel like I'm losing something. 267 00:21:25,487.1819857 --> 00:21:26,777.1819857 Keep on moving forwards. 268 00:21:27,57.1819857 --> 00:21:30,507.1819857 and if I edit something, if I take something out, I get really depressed. 269 00:21:30,507.1819857 --> 00:21:35,832.1819857 If I then see the word count shrink, so I just kind of copy and paste it into the bottom of the document and 'cause maybe I'll use it later. 270 00:21:36,502.1819857 --> 00:21:37,612.1819857 but it, but it tricks me. 271 00:21:37,762.1819857 --> 00:21:41,272.1819857 And then I have to, and then I have a depressing moment at the end where I have a big chunk of words. 272 00:21:41,272.1819857 --> 00:21:42,982.1819857 It's like, oh no, that is actually coming out. 273 00:21:44,62.1819857 --> 00:21:44,812.1819857 It's getting shorter. 274 00:21:45,262.1819857 --> 00:21:48,472.1819857 But often by that point, you've got enough, enough for a novel anyway, so it's all right. 275 00:21:48,892.1819857 --> 00:21:51,492.1819857 now, you must love to read. 276 00:21:51,552.1819857 --> 00:21:52,782.1819857 Most writers do. 277 00:21:52,992.1819857 --> 00:22:06,402.1819857 Is there a book you've read recently that you really loved, but maybe something that isn't a bestseller, something we won't all have heard of, that you really think deserves a bit more attention than it's had? there's a series that I love and the third one came out recently. 278 00:22:06,502.1819857 --> 00:22:16,72.1819857 it's by Jonathan Ames, who wrote, You Were Never Really Here, which was a short novella and it was turned into a film starring Joaquin Phoenix. 279 00:22:16,812.1819857 --> 00:22:19,512.1819857 but he released this book called A Man Named Doll. 280 00:22:19,587.1819857 --> 00:22:25,697.1819857 And it's a PI book set in, America, in LA the main character is called Happy Doll. 281 00:22:27,167.1819857 --> 00:22:31,67.1819857 and it's funny, but it's dark and it's violent, and. 282 00:22:32,192.1819857 --> 00:22:37,682.1819857 It's really hard to explain, but the three books are just some of the best fiction that I've ever read. 283 00:22:37,832.1819857 --> 00:22:46,312.1819857 he's, he's an incredible author because he is written this, but he's also written, a book called Wake Up Sir, which is kind of like Jeeves and Wooster Okay. 284 00:22:46,492.1819857 --> 00:22:47,322.1819857 I love Jeeves and Wooster. 285 00:22:47,642.1819857 --> 00:22:49,652.1819857 Which, and it is hilarious. 286 00:22:49,772.1819857 --> 00:23:07,877.1819857 he's obsessed with this woman with the best nose he's ever seen and, and his whole sort of, the whole book is about him trying to find her, but it's, and again, it veers into violence and drugs and I just think he's such a unique author that whatever he turns his hand to, pulls off. 287 00:23:08,227.1819857 --> 00:23:10,967.1819857 and it's published by, Pushkin Vertigo. 288 00:23:11,27.1819857 --> 00:23:15,737.1819857 So not like a massive, a massively well-known series. 289 00:23:15,737.1819857 --> 00:23:16,577.1819857 I don't think so. 290 00:23:16,627.1819857 --> 00:23:18,922.1819857 if more people could read that, then that would make me happy. 291 00:23:20,72.1819857 --> 00:23:20,732.1819857 Great tip. 292 00:23:20,732.1819857 --> 00:23:21,812.1819857 Thank you very much. 293 00:23:22,172.1819857 --> 00:23:27,422.1819857 Now talking of happiness, apart from writing, we've heard you enjoy pretty much every stage of the process. 294 00:23:27,572.1819857 --> 00:23:32,922.1819857 What else do you enjoy in life? What brings you happiness? good question. 295 00:23:33,102.1819857 --> 00:23:43,192.1819857 since it's strange, since I was diagnosed with, with, type one Diabetes, it sort of makes you see life when you've been in a hospital bed fading. 296 00:23:43,937.1819857 --> 00:23:44,567.1819857 Differently. 297 00:23:44,717.1819857 --> 00:23:50,27.1819857 and so I try to sort of say yes to lots of things. 298 00:23:50,237.1819857 --> 00:23:55,577.1819857 and most recently I was in a band at uni, so like, yeah, maybe 15, 16 years ago. 299 00:23:55,637.1819857 --> 00:23:58,757.1819857 And I loved it and I sort of stopped playing guitar for a while. 300 00:23:59,297.1819857 --> 00:24:05,157.1819857 and then about a year ago, maybe not even that, I put out this ad on Facebook on a Manchester. 301 00:24:05,157.1819857 --> 00:24:08,757.1819857 Musicians want it saying, does anyone fancy playing Some. 302 00:24:09,552.1819857 --> 00:24:15,682.1819857 Pop punk from our teenage years we've had about seven or eight practices, and we played our first gig recently. 303 00:24:15,742.1819857 --> 00:24:23,692.1819857 But playing music again with, with, you know, people that were strangers but that are now, you know, very, considered very good friends, has filled me with so much joy. 304 00:24:24,262.1819857 --> 00:24:30,592.1819857 I thought I'd be terrified going on stage again as a sort of nearly 4-year-old man with a, you know, bad back and all that. 305 00:24:31,492.1819857 --> 00:24:33,702.1819857 But, it's, yeah, it is just been so much fun. 306 00:24:33,852.1819857 --> 00:24:44,987.1819857 So that is a big thing at the moment in my life where we've got gigs coming up and we're, you know, discussing songs and just about sort of reliving those teenage years of, discovery. 307 00:24:45,137.1819857 --> 00:24:46,97.1819857 So that's been fun. 308 00:24:46,637.1819857 --> 00:24:47,927.1819857 I do enjoy going outside. 309 00:24:47,927.1819857 --> 00:24:49,397.1819857 I cannot stand gardening. 310 00:24:49,467.1819857 --> 00:24:53,120.9319857 so my outside is, and I'm scared of every insect going. 311 00:24:53,398.7444857 --> 00:25:00,170.9319857 so I say I like going outside, but, and I'm, I, he, I'm, because I'm Northern Irish, well, I dunno if it's because I'm Northern Irish, but. 312 00:25:00,955.9319857 --> 00:25:07,105.9319857 That's what I blame it on, but I don't like being hot either, so once it gets to about 15 degrees, sweating. 313 00:25:07,375.9319857 --> 00:25:12,865.9319857 So kind of the summertime when, when all the insects are out in the suns out is my worst time of year. 314 00:25:12,925.9319857 --> 00:25:17,665.9319857 So, as we approach the blackness of, of, of winter, this is when I come into my happy time. 315 00:25:18,395.9319857 --> 00:25:21,545.9319857 So you like, like being outside in very carefully controlled conditions. 316 00:25:21,845.9319857 --> 00:25:23,530.9319857 Yeah, okay. 317 00:25:23,570.9319857 --> 00:25:23,830.9319857 Brilliant. 318 00:25:23,880.9319857 --> 00:25:26,580.9319857 if the, if the moon could be out at, by 4:00 PM. 319 00:25:27,525.9319857 --> 00:25:28,5.9319857 I'm over. 320 00:25:28,95.9319857 --> 00:25:28,605.9319857 I'm over it. 321 00:25:29,140.9319857 --> 00:25:29,890.9319857 Okay, great. 322 00:25:30,100.9319857 --> 00:25:37,510.9319857 And do you have any tips specifically for the festive season? You are a Christmas expert now, now you've written your, your Christmas books. 323 00:25:37,630.9319857 --> 00:25:43,30.9319857 Any tips for getting through Christmas? Preferably without chopping off body parts and wrapping them up. 324 00:25:44,145.9319857 --> 00:25:44,415.9319857 Yeah, yeah. 325 00:25:44,415.9319857 --> 00:25:47,175.9319857 Tip one, if, if it looks foot shaped, don't open it. 326 00:25:48,675.9319857 --> 00:25:49,875.9319857 or call the police first. 327 00:25:50,215.9319857 --> 00:26:02,730.9319857 And so I'd say even though families might drive each other crazy at some point with, you know, being in a, a combustible house with people cooking and stuff, I think it is just embracing all that kind of. 328 00:26:03,415.9319857 --> 00:26:04,375.9319857 All that stuff. 329 00:26:04,495.9319857 --> 00:26:20,875.9319857 I realize now that my children are nine and seven, or will be at Christmas, and you know, the things that they're choosing for Christmas are changing and, and it's very quickly made me realize that things change really quickly and. 330 00:26:22,495.9319857 --> 00:26:27,435.9319857 I think it's just about sort of being in that moment and embracing, you know, everything that comes with it Yes. 331 00:26:28,395.9319857 --> 00:26:41,995.9319857 So can you tell us a little bit about upcoming projects? What do you have coming up next? so yes, as I mentioned, there will be a Christmas book three, that has not been announced anywhere yet, so don't tell anyone. 332 00:26:42,295.9319857 --> 00:26:43,70.9319857 You heard it here first. 333 00:26:43,100.9319857 --> 00:26:49,245.9319857 and then, yeah, and then, so that'll be, yeah, around this time next year, sometime in November. 334 00:26:49,685.9319857 --> 00:26:50,525.9319857 and then in. 335 00:26:52,10.9319857 --> 00:26:53,960.9319857 June, I think it is May or June. 336 00:26:54,130.9319857 --> 00:26:58,770.9319857 there's a new series that Harper North have bought, and it's gonna be under Chris McDonald. 337 00:26:59,790.9319857 --> 00:27:14,700.9319857 it's a PI series set in Manchester about a, a man called Ethan wins the lottery, goes home to tell his wife about his or their, I think nine point something million win. 338 00:27:15,810.9319857 --> 00:27:18,600.9319857 and when he goes in, she's dead at the bottom of the stairs. 339 00:27:19,920.9319857 --> 00:27:20,460.9319857 so. 340 00:27:21,120.9319857 --> 00:27:21,840.9319857 From the outset. 341 00:27:21,840.9319857 --> 00:27:26,190.9319857 There's suspicion in him when he opens up his private investigation firm a few months later. 342 00:27:26,670.9319857 --> 00:27:33,480.9319857 but he only did it not, he only opened the firm because he wants answers for people, like he wants answers for himself. 343 00:27:34,600.9319857 --> 00:27:35,455.9319857 It's really exciting. 344 00:27:35,455.9319857 --> 00:27:36,25.9319857 I love that. 345 00:27:36,25.9319857 --> 00:27:37,105.9319857 I love that premise. 346 00:27:37,165.9319857 --> 00:27:37,975.9319857 Really interesting. 347 00:27:37,975.9319857 --> 00:27:39,625.9319857 Winning the lottery and then finding your wife dead. 348 00:27:39,715.9319857 --> 00:27:40,135.9319857 Ooh. 349 00:27:40,645.9319857 --> 00:27:41,335.9319857 Oh, I love it. 350 00:27:41,395.9319857 --> 00:27:42,180.9319857 Looking forward to that one. 351 00:27:43,785.9319857 --> 00:27:44,235.9319857 I'll be sure. 352 00:27:44,235.9319857 --> 00:27:45,495.9319857 I'll be sure to get you a copy. 353 00:27:45,525.9319857 --> 00:27:46,170.9319857 It's called The Wrong Man. 354 00:27:47,50.9319857 --> 00:27:47,590.9319857 Thank you very much. 355 00:27:47,590.9319857 --> 00:27:48,220.9319857 The wrong man. 356 00:27:48,280.9319857 --> 00:27:48,820.9319857 Brilliant. 357 00:27:49,240.9319857 --> 00:27:49,870.9319857 Thank you. 358 00:27:49,870.9319857 --> 00:27:51,70.9319857 Thank you so much, Chris. 359 00:27:51,70.9319857 --> 00:27:52,930.9319857 And thank you to you for listening. 360 00:27:53,350.9319857 --> 00:27:57,130.9319857 The Christmas Tree Killer, Chris's second festive thriller is available now. 361 00:27:57,370.9319857 --> 00:28:03,880.9319857 Perfect to curl up with on a snow evening, or give as a slightly spine tingling gift for the Christmas book lover in your life. 362 00:28:04,880.9319857 --> 00:28:08,840.9319857 So if you've enjoyed Ray of Light, please do like and subscribe for more. 363 00:28:09,230.9319857 --> 00:28:14,0.9319857 You can find me @EleanorRayBooks across Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X. 364 00:28:14,180.9319857 --> 00:28:22,130.9319857 And if you are listening and would like to see it in full video glory, you can check out my YouTube channel and please do reach out and let me know your thoughts. 365 00:28:22,280.9319857 --> 00:28:25,520.9319857 I love hearing from you, especially as we get into the festive season. 366 00:28:26,920.9319857 --> 00:28:30,30.9319857 If you've liked what you had, you might like what I write too. 367 00:28:30,220.9319857 --> 00:28:40,0.9319857 It's uplifting book, club fiction stories, like Everything is Beautiful, and See the Stars that spark deep conversations and bring a little hope and light to the long winter nights. 368 00:28:40,600.9319857 --> 00:28:48,765.9319857 We have one more special Christmas episode coming this December, so stay tuned for more festive tips on writing, reading, and happiness.
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